Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9902C" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:56:47 -0500 Reply-To: "rohrbach@delanet.com" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne L. Rohrbach" Organization: Doswood InfoServices Subject: Job Opportunity: Frame-Maker Indexer needed Here is a job opp I received, and the pay is an excellent $41/hour. Work is entirely off-site (company is in San Francisco) on your own equipment. If anyone lands this opportunity, please let me know privately. Joanne L. Rohrbach Dogwood InfoServices www.iron-net.org/dogwood/ -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davis [SMTP:pubpros@synergistech.com] Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:20 AM To: contract_pubs@lists.best.com Subject: CFI-67, Contract Indexer, 100% offsite, FM/web/HTML authoring clue, <$41/hr CFI-67, Contract Indexer, 100% offsite, FM/web/HTML authoring clue, <$41/hr --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Company: Synergistech Communications Position: CFI-67, Contract Indexer for website authoring tool 3rd party book Location: entirely offsite on your own equipment Duration: six (6) days Pay rate: up to $41/hr on a 1099 basis Starts: 2/26/99 Summary: FrameMaker-savvy Indexer to create/enhance embedded-entry index for ~250-page book about leading website authoring tool This well-known San Francisco multimedia developer has an immediate opportunity for a Contract Indexer to update and supplement the index of an upcoming third-party press book about its leading website development tool. You'll work entirely offsite on your own equipment using FrameMaker to create an embedded-entry index for this ~250 page manuscript. The work will begin on 2/26 and must be complete by 3/3. You'll communicate with the client by phone, email, and FTP. Please note: the company doesn't care whether you use an external indexing tool as long as you deliver FrameMaker files with embedded index entries. The goal is for these entries to remain accurate after pagination changes, etc. If you use a third-party tool to create a static, non-embedded entry index, be sure to insert those entries into the FrameMaker files, then make sure the index generates cleanly. To qualify for this opportunity, you'll need at least two (2) years' experience using FrameMaker to create original, embedded-entry indexes for products aimed at computer-literate but non-technical end users. You'll also need a fundamental understanding of the HTML authoring process, web concepts, and browsers. This contract will require you to work entirely offsite on your own equipment. The document will be available on Friday, February 26 and must be complete by day's end on Wednesday, March 3. The project will pay $41/hr on a 1099 basis. (Posted 2/14/99) * * * If you're interested in -- and qualified for -- this opportunity, please reply to this message and *be sure to indicate why you wish to be considered*. If we do not already have a current copy of your resume, please send it to: Andrew Davis Synergistech Communications 1824 Byron Avenue San Mateo, CA 94401-3404 tel: (650) 344-2141 fax: (650) 344-5664 email: pubpros@synergistech.com web site: http://www.synergistech.com anon FTP: ftp://ftp.synergistech.com Principals only, please. Preferred format for resumes ---------------------------- We prefer to receive "formatted" softcopy resumes either by FTP at our anonymous FTP site, ftp://ftp.synergistech.com/incoming, or as email attachments (preferably in Word or FrameMaker format, any version) sent to pubpros@synergistech.com. If these options are not viable for you, please feel free to send it as a Word or FrameMaker file on a disk, or fax or mail us a printed copy. About Synergistech ------------------ Synergistech is a San Francisco Bay Area technical publications recruiting company created to meet your need for an informed, respectful, reliable ally in your job search. We do business with integrity, dignity, and fairness. We negotiate competitive compensation arrangements, keep our commissions modest, and communicate fully and promptly with both our candidates and client companies. We handle staff employee placements and, for temporary workers, true independent contractor (both 1099 and corp-to-corp) and W2 (payrolled temporary employee) relationships. W2-based temporary employees are paid within a week of receipt of their signed timecards, and are eligible *immediately* for complete health insurance and 401(k) plans as well as direct deposit. There's no vesting period! For W2'd workers, all state and federal payroll, unemployment, and social security taxes are fully covered, as are workers' compensation, general liability, owned & hired automobile, professional (errors & omissions), and employment practices liability insurance. For independent contractors working on either a "1099" and "corp-to-corp" basis, Synergistech can set up two-party, Section 1706-compliant relationships so that you're not automatically reclassified as your client's employee. (It remains your responsibility, however, to satisfy the IRS' 20 Common Law Questions.) We pay referral fees for all candidates placed and all staff or contract opportunities filled. * * * You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to contract_pubs, a free technical publications *contract employment* listing service from Synergistech Communications. * To unsubscribe, send email to: contract_pubs-request@lists.best.com with the single word "unsubscribe" in the body of the message. Note that you must send this message from the same account/address that is currently subscribed. For example, you won't be able to unsubscribe your JaneDoe@yahoo.com address by sending email from JaneDoe@hotmail.com, or even from JaneDoe@mydomain.yahoo.com * For more information about Synergistech's services, please visit our web site, http://www.synergistech.com, or send email to: contract_pubs-request@lists.best.com with the single word "info" in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:27:15 -0500 Reply-To: varney@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: J Flenner Subject: Re: bad cross-ref index in publication Kevin A. Broccoli wrote: > it is very poorly done, with reference to = > passing mention of topics, and even makes reference to certain pgs where = > I cannot even *find* mention of the topic. > > I don't really think that it's my place to mention how bad this section = > is, but I also think it's a shame to let it go out like this. What = > would all of you do? My inclination would be to ask the publisher what s/he wants, that I noticed some things s/he might or might not want/have time to take a look at. Jackie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:39:14 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: Re: Author citations Craig, Joanne says, "I opt for the initials-for-everyone option. I think that scholars are used to seeing their names that way, anyway." Doesn't this depend on the area of scholarship in which they normally work? In the humanities, where styles such as the MLA style predominate, names are given as the scholars themselves prefer them, usually with full names. In areas where styles such as APA predominate (regrettably, in my opinion), initials are used. Thus Mina P. Shaughnessy, known for her work with language, is known to MLA- type scholars by her full name but when she is cited in works on education is diminished to M.P. Shaughnessy in APA format. This being the case, unless your editors request the initials-only format, I would choose the inconsistent format, as full as it can be made without excessive stress. Those whose work is known only through APA, etc., are known by their initials; crossover scholars are known also by full names. Ann Parrish Parrish Professional Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 06:00:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Author citations In-Reply-To: <199902141846.KAA05619@decibel.electriciti.com> At 12:37 PM 2/14/99 -0600, Craig asked about: > to me a rather uneven index with entries like: > >Shaughnessy, Mina P. >Shorer, M. >Sheeran, Y. > And he is lucky. I have come up with situations such as: Shorer, M. Shorer, Mary Sheeran, Y. Sheeran. Y. T. Publishers had said to "live with it." With so many bibligraphic/journal databases available online, some of the full names can be found out--especially for books listed by the Library of Congress. But, I prefer a complete author index, even with awkward entries. > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:45:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Author citations Pam Rider wrote: >And he is lucky. I have come up with situations such as: > >Shorer, M. >Shorer, Mary >Sheeran, Y. >Sheeran. Y. T. > >Publishers had said to "live with it." With so many bibligraphic/journal >databases available online, some of the full names can be found >out--especially for books listed by the Library of Congress. > This is the case in just about _every_ name index I've done. In some cases I have a previous edition's name index to go by, and if they only list one Shorer I combine them. Clues can be gotten from the context too. If the date of the journal citation is about right, and the title of the citation is what you know the person was involved in, it's a fairly safe bet they're the same person, unless the name is extremely common. In really huge name indexes however, this task can be almost unbearably difficult given the amount of time available. I combine as many as I feel I can safely, then resign myself to leaving some in the format above in Pam's example that would take too much time to track down. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:29:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? Hi everybody. I have an opportunity to index a local genealogy. I've seen versions from different branchs of my own family, and each is set up very differently from the other. My father's branch gave each name/person a meaningful number representing his or her generation and ancestry. My grandmother on my mother's side only used names in her genealogy and you had to read the entry to know which line and generation a name/person belonged to in the whole scheme of things. A cousin has a whole computer program, special binders, and custom pages declaring we are descendants of Adam through Charlemagne. I haven't yet seen the manuscript I'm being offered, but I know better than to charge my usual page rate per each page of names. But would I bid by the entry (and if so, my usual or higher?) or by the hour? Would folks who are more experienced in this field care to respond about what I should watch for in both bidding this job and in indexing it? Martha Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:37:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Author citations I usually go ahead and leave them inconsistent (initials or full names). The logic is that I'm giving for each name the fullest information available to me in the text. It goes against the grain to not put in a full name if I have it. I haven't had anyone complain about this; on the other hand, maybe it's just laziness and I should be making them inconsistent! I think it could go either way without harm. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:45:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Author citations << Shorer, M. Shorer, Mary Sheeran, Y. Sheeran. Y. T. >> This often happens to me, too (in textbooks). When it does, I include a paragraph in my letter to the publisher that says something like: "In some cases there are names with similar initials in the index. (example) I indexed them separately, but they may be the same person; I recommend checking them." I have no idea if anyone does check them! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:19:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Andree Cote Moxon Subject: How do I unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: Hi, I am sorry to send this message out to all of you but I have been having trouble "unsubscribing" from the Index-L list-serv. The address seems to have changed. Can someone please email me with information on how to proceed? Thank you in advance for your help. Andree acote@interchange.ubc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:23:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Computer skills, basic I'm trying to figure out which computer skills I ABSOLUTELY need as an indexer, and which I can get by with not knowing, at least for a year or two! I have my trusty CINDEX for DOS program, which had been helping me index for the past few years. I can write a business letter and get it come out of my printer, and I have even transmitted rtf files over the Net. But I have the gut feeling that this isn't "enough." Perhaps I should formulate my question so that maximum benefit can be obtained from this thread: "What are the mimimum computer skills an indexer should have?" and "What are the basic programs (types, not necessarily brands) that an indexer should be knowledgeable about?" It may be that the question should be subdivided further into: basic computer skills for back-of-book indexers and basic skills for database, internet, and other indexers. Paula C. Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:12:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Huse Subject: Re: Author citations Like some others who have responded, I opt for including available information on author's names when it is available, rather than dropping information for the sake of consistency. I try to tell the editor/author about my decision. In my notes to the editor/author I include a note on my decision as follows. Indexing the text produced the following entries: Shorer, M., 134 Shorer, Mary, 187 Citation information (date, subject matter) led indexer to believe these references are to the same person. Current index entry reads as follows: Shorer, Mary, 134, 187 Please confirm or correct. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable about combining the two names. Perhaps the dates are too far apart, or the subject matter is quite different. In this case I present the same information as above, but reflecting a different decision. Indexing the text produced the following entries: Shorer, M., 134 Shorer, Mary, 187 Indexer is suspicious that these might be the same person, but citation information was not strong enough to combine references under single entry for Mary Shorer. Index currently reads as follows: Shorer, M., 134 Shorer, Mary, 187 Please confirm or correct. If I have a number of names with a similar issue, I put them all in a list with one short paragraph explaining the question. This makes the note-making process quicker. In some books with multiple papers on a central topic (professional symposia, for example) this name problem comes up a lot. My main concern is that there are many related authors (husband/wife, parent/child) who may share even uncommon names, and may work on similar topics. The author of the text probably knows these instances if presented with a clear presentation of the references. I would like to think they check these, but I don't have feedback on that process. FWIW, -Hannah- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:42:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Computer skills, basic At 02:23 PM 2/15/1999 -0500, Paula C. Durbin-Westby wrote: >I have my trusty CINDEX for DOS program, which had been helping me index >for the past few years. I can write a business letter and get it come out >of my printer, and I have even transmitted rtf files over the Net. But I >have the gut feeling that this isn't "enough." > >Perhaps I should formulate my question so that maximum benefit can be >obtained from this thread: > >"What are the mimimum computer skills an indexer should have?" and "What >are the basic programs (types, not necessarily brands) that an indexer >should be knowledgeable about?" If you can do your indexing with a computer program (and you can do decent "tweaking" of said program so that it does what YOU need it to do), and you can write letters and create invoices, you've covered the basics. About the only thing I would add is a general business necessity, not specific to indexing: Using and understanding a basic bookkeeping/accounting program. I also rely on a combination invoicing and client-contact program that is already ten years old and guaranteed not to be Y2K compliant, so I am looking for a new one. What this program does is keep job records by numbers and maintain a client list with all important client info on it...including notes I write about pay rates, holiday gifts and/or cards sent, and anything else of importance to me. When I want to create an invoice, all I do is supply the job number and the charges. The invoice is properly typed and addressed by the program, printed out, and a record is kept of the entire transaction. A general note about computer skills...I have a trusted guru who comes to my aid when things have irretrievably broken down in some way, but over the years I have saved a lot of time, money, and aggravation by learning how to do my own basic repairs, program upgrades, and so forth. I highly recommend two books, both of which can be purchased through Amazon.com and probably are also available at your local library: Upgrading and Fixing PCs for Dummies (Andy Rathbone) Fix Your Own PC (Corey Sandler) Both of these are periodically updated and enlarged, and both are really helpful. You do not have to be a tecchie! But it helps a lot if you understand the basics of how your computer works, and how to do simple troubleshooting and software/hardware fix-ups. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:31:27 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Computer skills, basic > Sonsie wrote: > > When I want to create an > invoice, all I do is > supply the job number and the charges. The invoice is properly typed and > addressed by the program, printed out, and a record is kept of the entire > transaction. Hi all, Speaking of invoices...does anyone have an invoicing program that they especially love and would like to share with us? I've been using the same invoice format for coming onto 11 years now. I feel like a change! What do most of you do? Are you using specific invoicing programs or creating custom invoice templates using desktop publishing programs? And, if there are any editors out there...do you have any preferences regarding invoice formats? I'm not referring to the invoice information content but rather the "look" of the invoices you receive. Thanks! Sylvia Coates > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:19:28 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: bret.wiebe@EXCITE.COM Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:29:59 -0800, Back Words Indexing wrote: > I have an opportunity to index a local genealogy. I've seen versions from > different branchs of my own family, and each is set up very differently > from the other. My father's branch gave each name/person a meaningful > number representing his or her generation and ancestry. Hi, My family genealogy was published using a numbering system that really helped make the information useful and easy to use. Examples: me: W216511 father: W21651 grandfather: W2165 great-grandmother: W216 Each digit represents birth order among siblings in each generation. This system makes is very easy to determine relationships by simply writing 2 number, one above the other, and looking for the first common digit. Example: W216511 W216521 first cousins (parents are siblings) This system has worked wonderfully in my experience and I recommend it highly. Cheers, Bret Wiebe _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 12:55:58 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Genealogies - a numbering system bret.wiebe@EXCITE.COM wrote: > > me: W216511 > father: W21651 > grandfather: W2165 > great-grandmother: W216 > > Each digit represents birth order among siblings in each generation. > This system makes is very easy to determine relationships by simply > writing 2 number, one above the other, and looking for the first > common digit. What about families with more than nine children or twins? Take mine, for example: My grandfather and *his* father were both twins in families with 10 children. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:06:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Author citations Hannah wrote: << My main concern is that there are many related authors (husband/wife, parent/child) who may share even uncommon names, and may work on similar topics. >> In my experience, this happens a LOT. Whenever I say to myself, "That's such an unusual name, it must be the same person," it isn't--they're related. On the very first book I ever indexed, a textbook with a billion names, I hadn't been told to look up the initials (and the publisher hadn't sent the reference list). I entered all the names without initials (which, of course, combined identical last names into one entry) and then discovered that I had to go back and add the initials. (What can I say--everyone makes stupid mistakes on their first job! At least I was working in community and roped about ten people in to do the very long looking-up job!) Anyway, I had an entry for Smith with about 40 page references--and every single one was a different person. This is why, in my paragraph to the publisher, I also say "in my experience, it can never be assumed that similar names are the same person. I recommend checking them before combining." Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:13:00 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Author citations Many thanks to all who took time to reply to my query. For those who didn't keep count, the prevailing opinion is to used the full name when possible and first initials when not, a mixed format. That is what I will do. Thanks! Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:53:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Computer skills, basic snip I also rely on a combination invoicing and client-contact program that is already ten years old and guaranteed not to be Y2K compliant, so I am looking for a new one. What this program does is keep job records by numbers and maintain a client list with all important client info on it...including notes I write about pay rates, holiday gifts and/or cards sent, and anything else of importance to me. When I want to create an invoice, all I do is supply the job number and the charges. The invoice is properly typed and addressed by the program, printed out, and a record is kept of the entire transaction. You may want to look into a database program called Alpha4 as it can do all this and oesn't require a programmer. I know about the DOS version and have not tried windows version I have not used it to generate invoices but they have templates all set up for it. Roberta rhorowitz@acm.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:21:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Computer skills, basic In-Reply-To: <199902151945.OAA10562@carriage.chesco.com> >> >>"What are the mimimum computer skills an indexer should have?" and "What >>are the basic programs (types, not necessarily brands) that an indexer >>should be knowledgeable about?" > >If you can do your indexing with a computer program (and you can do decent >"tweaking" of said program so that it does what YOU need it to do), and you >can write letters and create invoices, you've covered the basics. > >About the only thing I would add is a general business necessity, not >specific to indexing: Using and understanding a basic bookkeeping/accounting >program. To this list I'd add online capability, specifically the ability to upload files electronically. The last of my regular contacts moved to this method of delivery last spring. When deadlines are tight (& when aren't they?) that extra day that used to be lost to shipping can mean getting a few hours of sleep when I need it most. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:29:01 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? In-Reply-To: <199902152019.PAA13317@mail5.bellsouth.net> Bret, this is what's known as the Modified Henry System, and it generally gives pro genealogists the shudders. I have too many family groups in my lineages with more than 10 children, usually by several spouses, and my gr-grfather had two sets of twins among his siblings. Unfortunately, most family books are published by amateur family historians, and they tend to make up (or reinvent) new systems.... Go to the book review section of NGS Quarterly and see what they have to say about all this. Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of |bret.wiebe@EXCITE.COM |Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:19 PM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? | | |On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:29:59 -0800, Back Words Indexing wrote: | |> I have an opportunity to index a local genealogy. I've seen versions |from |> different branchs of my own family, and each is set up very differently |> from the other. My father's branch gave each name/person a meaningful |> number representing his or her generation and ancestry. | |Hi, | |My family genealogy was published using a numbering system that really |helped make the information useful and easy to use. | |Examples: | | me: W216511 | father: W21651 | grandfather: W2165 |great-grandmother: W216 | |Each digit represents birth order among siblings in each generation. This |system makes is very easy to determine relationships by simply writing 2 |number, one above the other, and looking for the first common digit. | |Example: | |W216511 |W216521 first cousins (parents are siblings) | |This system has worked wonderfully in my experience and I recommend it |highly. | |Cheers, | |Bret Wiebe | | | | |_______________________________________________________ |Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:45:25 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? In-Reply-To: <199902151631.LAA28200@mail2.bellsouth.net> |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Back Words |Indexing |Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:30 AM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? | |I have an opportunity to index a local genealogy. I've seen versions from |different branchs of my own family, and each is set up very differently |from the other. My father's branch gave each name/person a meaningful |number representing his or her generation and ancestry. My grandmother on |my mother's side only used names in her genealogy and you had to read the |entry to know which line and generation a name/person belonged to in the |whole scheme of things. A cousin has a whole computer program, special |binders, and custom pages declaring we are descendants of Adam through |Charlemagne. Martha, I strongly recommend a little booklet by Pat Hatcher & John Wylie called "Indexing Family Histories." It was written for selfpublishing family historians, but it nicely lays out the differences between "regular" indexing and what else is needed in genelaogy. (Pat's a member of ASI.) You can buy it from the National Genealogical Society for $5.00; go to to find it. That "meaningful number" could be any one of a number of systems, but best practice is NOT to use it as a locator in the index in any case; use page numbers, like always. (Henry numbers, for instance, can run to many digits with interpolated letters, which sometimes won't even fit in one column on a two-column page.) I've had an appalling amount of experience with this stuff, having done genealogy for 30+ years and published several lineages. I'm presently on the Board of the Louisiana State Genealogical & Historical Society and I was also one of the developers of The Master Genealogist (and I wrote the manual). |I haven't yet seen the manuscript I'm being offered, but I know better than |to charge my usual page rate per each page of names. But would I bid by |the entry (and if so, my usual or higher?) or by the hour? Would folks who |are more experienced in this field care to respond about what I should |watch for in both bidding this job and in indexing it? Personally, I would charge my usual per-page rate. There's a lot more typing but also a lot less cogitation involved -- assuming they want just an "every-name" index, and most do. And keep in mind that most family books are published on the cheap by family associations or local societies, and they likely can't afford your regular rates. (In fact, I'm surprised they aren't depending on a volunteer for this!) I would find out if this is the first book of this kind they've published, so you'll have some idea whether or not they really understand what's involved.... Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:09:56 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Author citations In-Reply-To: <199902151547.HAA04855@nccn.net> At 10:45 AM 2/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >Pam Rider wrote: > >>And he is lucky. I have come up with situations such as: >> >>Shorer, M. >>Shorer, Mary >>Sheeran, Y. >>Sheeran. Y. T. >> >>Publishers had said to "live with it." With so many bibligraphic/journal >>databases available online, some of the full names can be found >>out--especially for books listed by the Library of Congress. >> > >This is the case in just about _every_ name index I've done. In some cases >I have a previous edition's name index to go by, and if they only list one >Shorer I combine them. Clues can be gotten from the context too. If the >date of the journal citation is about right, and the title of the citation >is what you know the person was involved in, it's a fairly safe bet they're >the same person, unless the name is extremely common. In really huge name >indexes however, this task can be almost unbearably difficult given the >amount of time available. I combine as many as I feel I can safely, then >resign myself to leaving some in the format above in Pam's example that >would take too much time to track down. > >Kevin Mulrooney Kevin describes my own experience of this problem and ways of working with it. As a lover of consistency whenever appropriate, I prefer consistency of the index with the text, in terms of full names vs. initials, to the internal consistency of the index itself. In this vein it also seems appropriate simply to index what's presented, that is, to index only the initial or initials given rather than to research and include first names not given, since the author can be presumed to have made the judgment that the initials given suffice. Michael P.S. I like Do Mi's note to publishers, "in my experience, it can never be assumed that similar names are the same person. I recommend checking them before combining", because it puts the responsibility where it belongs -- with the publishers -- and alerts them to it. I also appreciate Hannah's care and concern to specify names that may be the same for her publisher, but isn't this going beyond the call of duty?, and of need? -- and in the context of a long name index, way beyond? Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:29:45 -0800 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Computer skills, basic QuickBooks, I think, may be able to do everything you mention here. My copy is old so I'm not really up to date on what is and what isn't anymore, but QB is reasonably easy to learn (even for a key-poker like me)! Jeri Lee Sonsie Conroy wrote: > At 02:23 PM 2/15/1999 -0500, Paula C. Durbin-Westby wrote: > > >I have my trusty CINDEX for DOS program, which had been helping me index > >for the past few years. I can write a business letter and get it come out > >of my printer, and I have even transmitted rtf files over the Net. But I > >have the gut feeling that this isn't "enough." > > > >Perhaps I should formulate my question so that maximum benefit can be > >obtained from this thread: > > > >"What are the mimimum computer skills an indexer should have?" and "What > >are the basic programs (types, not necessarily brands) that an indexer > >should be knowledgeable about?" > > If you can do your indexing with a computer program (and you can do decent > "tweaking" of said program so that it does what YOU need it to do), and you > can write letters and create invoices, you've covered the basics. > > About the only thing I would add is a general business necessity, not > specific to indexing: Using and understanding a basic bookkeeping/accounting > program. > > I also rely on a combination invoicing and client-contact program that is > already ten years old and guaranteed not to be Y2K compliant, so I am > looking for a new one. What this program does is keep job records by numbers > and maintain a client list with all important client info on it...including > notes I write about pay rates, holiday gifts and/or cards sent, and anything > else of importance to me. When I want to create an invoice, all I do is > supply the job number and the charges. The invoice is properly typed and > addressed by the program, printed out, and a record is kept of the entire > transaction. > > A general note about computer skills...I have a trusted guru who comes to my > aid when things have irretrievably broken down in some way, but over the > years I have saved a lot of time, money, and aggravation by learning how to > do my own basic repairs, program upgrades, and so forth. I highly recommend > two books, both of which can be purchased through Amazon.com and probably > are also available at your local library: > > Upgrading and Fixing PCs for Dummies (Andy Rathbone) > Fix Your Own PC (Corey Sandler) > > Both of these are periodically updated and enlarged, and both are really > helpful. You do not have to be a tecchie! But it helps a lot if you > understand the basics of how your computer works, and how to do simple > troubleshooting and software/hardware fix-ups. > > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:31:16 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Author citations In-Reply-To: I would have no problems at all with abbreviating to: Shaughnessy, MP I like a neat tidy index, and so long as no access is lost I think its fine. If I knew that a Mona P Shaughnessy also worked in this area I might try and be more precise. Glenda. > This yields what seems to me a rather uneven index with entries like: > > Shaughnessy, Mina P. > Shorer, M. > Sheeran, Y. > > Has anyone on the list ever tried to make the entries look more uniform > by, for example, using only first initials, or (shudder) researching the > first names of the dozens and dozens of initials-only authors? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:49:35 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Author citations Hannah Huse wrote: > I try to tell the editor/author about my decision. In my > notes to the editor/author I include a note on my decision as follows. > > Indexing the text produced the following entries: > Shorer, M., 134 > Shorer, Mary, 187 > Citation information (date, subject matter) led indexer > to believe these references are to the same person. > Current index entry reads as follows: > Shorer, Mary, 134, 187 > Please confirm or correct. > > Sometimes I feel uncomfortable about combining the two names. Perhaps the > dates are too far apart, or the subject matter is quite different. In this > case I present the same information as above, but reflecting a different > decision. > > Indexing the text produced the following entries: > Shorer, M., 134 > Shorer, Mary, 187 > Indexer is suspicious that these might be the same person, but citation > information was not strong enough to combine references under single entry for > Mary Shorer. > Index currently reads as follows: > Shorer, M., 134 > Shorer, Mary, 187 > Please confirm or correct. > > If I have a number of names with a similar issue, I put them all in a list > with one short paragraph explaining the question. This makes the note-making > process quicker. In some books with multiple papers on a central topic > (professional symposia, for example) this name problem comes up a lot. > > My main concern is that there are many related authors (husband/wife, > parent/child) who may share even uncommon names, and may work on similar > topics. The author of the text probably knows these instances if presented > with a clear presentation of the references. I would like to think they check > these, but I don't have feedback on that process. > > FWIW, > > -Hannah- I agree with Hannah's method of alerting the editor/author (as the case may be) on inconsistent names. I consider this to be part of the job. And I know, based on feedback from both authors and editors, how much this is appreciated. It only takes a few extra minutes to cite problems and I believe that it is often repaid with repeat work and referrals. As is so often the case, courtesy toward an editor pays multiple dividends! Best, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:10:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Computer skills, basic In-Reply-To: <199902151824.rchb4g.bc5.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> At 03:29 PM 2/15/99 -0800, you wrote: >QuickBooks, I think, may be able to do everything you mention here. I heartily recommend Quicken Home & Business over QuickBooks. I've tried both and felt the QuickBooks made me understand way too much about accounting just to get it set up. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:03:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Soo Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? Dear Martha: One useful addition to a genealogy index is dividing certain given names along birth or era lines. One Dickinson genealogy I use has done that with the nearly 75 Nathaniel's and it really helps. As a long-time user of genealogies, the one wish I always have is that places be indexed. I'm taking the USDA course so that when I index my genealogy, it will be useful. Good luck. Joan Soo Back Words Indexing wrote: > Hi everybody. > > I have an opportunity to index a local genealogy. I've seen versions from > different branchs of my own family, and each is set up very differently > from the other. My father's branch gave each name/person a meaningful > number representing his or her generation and ancestry. My grandmother on > my mother's side only used names in her genealogy and you had to read the > entry to know which line and generation a name/person belonged to in the > whole scheme of things. A cousin has a whole computer program, special > binders, and custom pages declaring we are descendants of Adam through > Charlemagne. > > I haven't yet seen the manuscript I'm being offered, but I know better than > to charge my usual page rate per each page of names. But would I bid by > the entry (and if so, my usual or higher?) or by the hour? Would folks who > are more experienced in this field care to respond about what I should > watch for in both bidding this job and in indexing it? > > Martha > Back Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:56:50 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Blake Atkins Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? Please, I am also trying in vain to unsubscribe to Index-L. Can you ask the group to post the instructions for everyone to see? Thanks so much. Andree Cote Moxon wrote: > Hi, > > I am sorry to send this message out to all of you but I have been > having > trouble "unsubscribing" from the Index-L list-serv. The address seems > to > have changed. Can someone please email me with information on how to > proceed? > > Thank you in advance for your help. > Andree > acote@interchange.ubc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:22:56 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nallini Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? In-Reply-To: I am a recent subscripber to the list and the message to unscribe is as follows: SIGNOFF INDEX-L in the message body. Do not include your name in this message. I hope this helps/works Nallini On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:56:50 -0600 Blake Atkins wrote: > Please, I am also trying in vain to unsubscribe to Index-L. Can you ask > the group to post the instructions for everyone to see? Thanks so much. > > > Andree Cote Moxon wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am sorry to send this message out to all of you but I > have been > having > > trouble "unsubscribing" from the Index-L list-serv. The > address seems > to > > have changed. Can someone please email me with > information on how to > proceed? > > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Andree > acote@interchange.ubc.ca ----------------------------------- nallini @sghms.ac.uk St. Georges Hospital Medical School Opinions expressed those of the author and not the institution ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:42:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Word 97 question Hi folks, This is not an indexing question, so please feel free to skip over it. I just received a document (on a disk) from a client that was created in Word 97. However, I have an earlier version of Word (6.0), so at the moment I'm not able to get into this document. Is it possible to save the document as, for instance, an .RTF file in order to read it in the older version of Word? (I do have access to a computer that has the newer program, so I could do this conversion, if it is something that will work.) Or should I just bite the bullet and upgrade (two years after it's been on the market)? I'd greatly appreciate any ideas or suggestions. Please reply to me off list. Thanks. Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus tahudoba@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:51:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Word 97 question Terri: If my understanding of Word/Microsoft is correct and you have access to a computer with '97 products in it, then you could save the file as an older version of Word. Also save it as an RTF as a backup. Try both. Rob Razorsharp Communications, Inc. fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:52:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Word 97 question I'd have to check the MS web site to be certain, but it's likely there's a converter available for accessing Word 97 files with earlier versions. > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert A. Saigh [SMTP:fugleman@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 9:52 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Word 97 question > > Terri: > > If my understanding of Word/Microsoft is correct and you have access > to a computer with '97 products in it, then you could save the file as > an older version of Word. Also save it as an RTF as a backup. Try > both. > > Rob > Razorsharp Communications, Inc. > fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:15:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Word 97 question > If my understanding of Word/Microsoft is correct and you have access > to a computer with '97 products in it, then you could save the file as > an older version of Word. Also save it as an RTF as a backup. Try > both. > > Rob > Razorsharp Communications, Inc. > > Terri-- That has been our experience, too. In Word 97 you have the option to save the file as a Word 6.0 document. Do that, but be aware that you may lose some of the formatting. Good luck! -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:23:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? Just remember to address the signoff message to the LISTSERVER that manages the list, **not** index-l. LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:40:37 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Word 97 question In a message dated 2/16/99 9:45:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM writes: > I just received a document (on a disk) from a client that was created in Word > 97. However, I have an earlier version of Word (6.0), so at the moment I'm > not > able to get into this document. > Terry, I have Word 97. There is a conversion utility on the Word 97 CD which can be copied for other users. I just checked Word's help, though, and it seems that it "allows opening Word 97 docs in Word 6.0 or Word 95, but not saving them." I had thought it was a full converter, but maybe not. Anyway, you could get it off the CD for Word 97. Maybe somebody else out there has used this? On my CD it is under: Word -- Os -- MsApps -- Textconv Ann Truesdale Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:06:02 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? From Christine Headley nallini wrote: >I am a recent subscripber to the list and the message to >unscribe is as follows: > >SIGNOFF INDEX-L in the message body. Do not include your >name in this message. Not to the list address though! We don't want to know, the Binghamton computer does. Try sending it to LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu ... Where is Binghamton? (In terms a Brit can understand - remember, we don't learn all the state capitals at school!) Christine Headley Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:30:32 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Word 97 question TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM wrote: > > Is it possible to save [a Word 97] document > ... to read it in [Word 6.0]? > Or should I just ... upgrade? There's another alternative. Microsoft offers a free converter for Word 6.0 that translates Word 97 files. The download. called Wrd97cnv.exe, is a single executable that you run once to install the converter. (I keep it around, in case I ever need to reinstall Word 6.0, which is a lot more likely than my ever installing Word 97!) Look for it at www.microsoft.com. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:37:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Hunter Subject: Re: Word 97 question -----Original Message----- From: Ann Truesdale To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: February 16, 1999 10:44 AM Subject: Re: Word 97 question >In a message dated 2/16/99 9:45:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM >writes: > >> I just received a document (on a disk) from a client that was created in >Word >> 97. However, I have an earlier version of Word (6.0), so at the moment I'm >> not >> able to get into this document. And Ann replied: >I have Word 97. There is a conversion utility on the Word 97 CD which can be >copied for other users. I just checked Word's help, though, and it seems that >it "allows opening Word 97 docs in Word 6.0 or Word 95, but not saving them." >I had thought it was a full converter, but maybe not. Anyway, you could get it >off the CD for Word 97. Maybe somebody else out there has used this? >On my CD it is under: Word -- Os -- MsApps -- Textconv There is a downloadable conversion program on Microsoft's Web site. While the program does say that it "allows opening Word 97 docs in Word 6.0 or Word 95, but not saving them", what they mean is you can open the documents, but can't save them as Word 97 documents. You can resave them in the older versions just fine. Hope it helps. Dawn Hunter markmywords@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:33:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? > From Christine Headley > > Where is Binghamton? (In terms a Brit can understand - remember, we don't > learn all the state capitals at school!) > > Binghampton University is part of the State University of New York system (aka, SUNY-Binghamton). Binghamton is in what I would describe as south-central New York near the Pennsylvania border-- a truly beautiful area-- about 200 miles northwest of New York City. Our list is run off of the Binghamton University server, which explains the address. Here's a web site for those who may be interested in seeing something about the school: http://www.binghamton.edu/ -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:41:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathleen Babbitt Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? Christine Headley wrote: > > > Where is Binghamton? (In terms a Brit can understand - remember, we don't > learn all the state capitals at school!) > Well, here's one I can finally answer (I'm a copyeditor-lurker who lurks because you all talk about the nuts and bolts of technology so much and I find it very helpful). Binghamton University is my alma mater, and I lived there for 10 years before I finished my degree there. It's about 2 1/2 hours north and west of New York City, just above the New York-Pennsylvania state border. A medium-ish city that is now largely a bedroom community with a much-depleted industrial base. Kathy Babbitt kbab@northnet.org Canton, NY (near the Canadian border, north of the Adirondacks) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:49:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathleen Babbitt Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? Wright, Sharon F. wrote: > > > > Binghampton University is part of the State University of New York system > (aka, SUNY-Binghamton). Binghamton is in what I would describe as > south-central New York near the Pennsylvania border-- a truly beautiful > area-- about 200 miles northwest of New York City. Everything Sharon says is true, except for two things. There's no "p" in Binghamton--it's not one of the Hamptons, although in graduate school we used to joke about it. The city has a very working-class ethos. And the name is no longer SUNY-Binghamton; some years ago they changed the name to Binghamton University in an attempt to strengthen town-gown relations. I'm not sure how that worked out. I disapproved of the change, but they didn't ask me. Kathy Babbitt kbab@northnet.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:14:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? Hi Martha, I agree with Mike Smith; I'd charge my usual rate (by the entry or by the page, whichever you're more comfortable with). I was taught to index genealogy material by the toughest and most demanding genealogist I know -- my mother! She taught me to index **everything** for genealogists. They are professional researchers who want to be able to find every subject, town, county, maiden name, married name, nickname, alias: **everything** that's in the book! I hope that you're not limited by space for this index, because I don't think it's possible to over-index genealogy works! Just try to put yourself in the researcher's shoes and include everything that they may want to find in the book. (I agree that _Indexing Family Histories_ by Patricia Law Hatcher and John V. Wylie is a helpful resource.) The number system that you referred to is used by the genealogists, but as an indexer, I've found that I don't have to be too concerned with it. Hope that helps! Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 http://www.asindexing.org <-- What's Indexing? http://www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG http://members.aol.com/Pmauer <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:07:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? I stand humbly corrected. Thanks, Kathleen! :-) And sorry about the typo-- you'll note that I got i it right MOST of the time. Isn't that good enough? :-) -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen Babbitt [SMTP:kbab@NORTHNET.ORG] > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 11:49 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? > > Wright, Sharon F. wrote: > > > > > > > > Binghampton University is part of the State University of New York > system > > (aka, SUNY-Binghamton). Binghamton is in what I would describe as > > south-central New York near the Pennsylvania border-- a truly beautiful > > area-- about 200 miles northwest of New York City. > > Everything Sharon says is true, except for two things. There's no "p" in > Binghamton--it's not > one of the Hamptons, although in graduate school we used to joke about it. > The > city has a very > working-class ethos. And the name is no longer SUNY-Binghamton; some > years ago > they changed the > name to Binghamton University in an attempt to strengthen town-gown > relations. > I'm not sure how > that worked out. I disapproved of the change, but they didn't ask me. > > Kathy Babbitt > kbab@northnet.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:44:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? Mike Smith and other indexers with a lot of experience in indexing genealogy: what about the opportunities in creating indexes for already existing books and selling the indexes to geneologists? In my _very limited_ experience doing a smidge of research on my own family, I found that there were many great resources languishing in historical societies that were either not indexed at all or poorly indexed. They are difficult to exhaustively search for your target people: i.e. to be absolutely sure your target name is _not_ in there you must literally read every single name in the text. This was very discouraging to me, especially when there might be a half dozen such books just in one shelf area alone with similar potential to have your target name(s). What would be the copyright ramifications? Presumably you'd need permission? Would that be wasting your time relative the Latter Day Saints? Kevin (O') Mulrooney (remnant of a once powerful Irish sept subjugated by the McGuires, according to Surnames of Ireland (sorry I forget the author)) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:05:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Author citations In reading some of the replies to the question about author citations, I started to wonder if perhaps my own method, of taking some "liberties" with the initials in terms of combining where it seemed appropriate, might be a bit too "presumptive". It seems that some other indexers prefer to spell out such discrepancies to the editor, and leave it to them to decide, while leaving the index in the "rough" state. But then I started to think about what is more like the typical situation. Where the editor is working on perhaps a half dozen books, some with immediate TLC needs, and is not very likely to have the extra time to wade into a 50 page name index, an experience not unlike stepping in quicksand. They might then shunt it off to the author, who is clearly the most qualified to make such determinations. But then again the author is likely pulling their own hair out dealing with last second changes, etc. I can remember when I finished the third edition of my metal detecting book, the first that I was sending to a contract publisher for printing, I was almost psychotic dealing with how to get the file configured correctly as a postscript file. When I finally at the last second figured out the key trick, I was already _2 months_ behind on my target ship date, I had tons of orders, and I just basically threw it out the door _without an index_ (I did index my first 2 editions!). I suspect that in many cases, if a decision isn't made by the INDEXER, it doesn't get made at all. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:05:05 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Author citations I can see Kevin's point of view. However, like so much of indexing, this is a situation which requires a judgment call. Much of my work is for university presses and textbook publications. There is usually, relative to other kinds of indexing, quite a bit of time (usually three or four weeks) to index scholarly books. This gives the author or editor time to make any corrections. In addition, I've found that most of the authors are very concerned with getting every detail as correct as humanly possible. Of course, if the situation is as Kevin describes, one must accommodate to the given circumstances of rushed deadline, frantic author, etc. It's usually pretty easy, just takes one phone call to the editor, to ascertain what the given situation is and to act accordingly. Best, Sylvia Coates indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: > In reading some of the replies to the question about author citations, I > started to wonder if perhaps my own method, of taking some "liberties" with > the initials in terms of combining where it seemed appropriate, might be a > bit too "presumptive". It seems that some other indexers prefer to spell > out such discrepancies to the editor, and leave it to them to decide, while > leaving the index in the "rough" state. But then I started to think about > what is more like the typical situation. Where the editor is working on > perhaps a half dozen books, some with immediate TLC needs, and is not very > likely to have the extra time to wade into a 50 page name index, an > experience not unlike stepping in quicksand. They might then shunt it off > to the author, who is clearly the most qualified to make such > determinations. But then again the author is likely pulling their own hair > out dealing with last second changes, etc. I can remember when I finished > the third edition of my metal detecting book, the first that I was sending > to a contract publisher for printing, I was almost psychotic dealing with > how to get the file configured correctly as a postscript file. When I > finally at the last second figured out the key trick, I was already _2 > months_ behind on my target ship date, I had tons of orders, and I just > basically threw it out the door _without an index_ (I did index my first 2 > editions!). > I suspect that in many cases, if a decision isn't made by the > INDEXER, it doesn't get made at all. > > Kevin Mulrooney > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dyslexics of the world untie! > > First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 > 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net > Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:44:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? > This is such a great group! Your willingness to answer questions > (accurately) certainly lightens my load. Thank you, thank you. Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator --working happily in beautiful south-central NY (aka southern tier) at the incomparable Binghamton University (aka SUNY Binghamton or BU). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:54:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Computer skills, basic > > I heartily recommend Quicken Home & Business over QuickBooks. I've tried > both and felt the QuickBooks made me understand way too much about > accounting just to get it set up. > > Dick > I use Quicken Home & Business also, and like it. I have never used QuickBooks, but it is more expensive and the extras it had over Quicken Home & Business did not seem like things I would use. OTOH, accountants prefer QuickBooks, probably because it has a more standard accounting interface, as Dick indicates.Quicken Home & Business does allow you to keep notes on entries in the address book. Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 15:54:05 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? Send the message: signoff index-l to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Leave the subject line blank. Please note that this is not the same address used to post messages. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:20:20 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? In-Reply-To: <199902161747.MAA22519@mail2.bellsouth.net> |Mike Smith and other indexers with a lot of experience in indexing |genealogy: what about the opportunities in creating indexes for already |existing books and selling the indexes to geneologists? In my _very |limited_ experience doing a smidge of research on my own family, I found |that there were many great resources languishing in historical societies |that were either not indexed at all or poorly indexed. They are difficult |to exhaustively search for your target people: i.e. to be absolutely sure |your target name is _not_ in there you must literally read every single name |in the text. This was very discouraging to me, especially when there might |be a half dozen such books just in one shelf area alone with similar |potential to have your target name(s). What would be the copyright |ramifications? Presumably you'd need permission? Would that be wasting |your time relative the Latter Day Saints? | |Kevin (O') Mulrooney (remnant of a once powerful Irish sept subjugated by |the McGuires, according to Surnames of Ireland (sorry I forget the author)) Yes, I expect we've all spent long weekends poring over every word of a thousand-page, minuscule-type-size biography or county history! And any good genealogist will tell you you SHOULD read every word, too. You never know what unexpected info or connections will turn up. Genealogy is one of the very few areas where there might actually be a market for after-the-fact indexing. But it tends to be done NOT for money but as a volunteer service for other researchers. Older family histories are often indexed by relevant family associations, older local or county histories by local or county societies, and so on. You can get around the copyright problem by limiting yourself to older unindexed volumes, of which there are many. (Genealogists, as noted, prize good indexes and almost all recent works are indexes.) But the good older ones generally get reprinted by one of the handful of publishers who specialize in that (GPC, Family Line, Heritage House, Polyanthos, etc), and they usually do an index as a "value added" sort of thing. All the old Goodspeed histories have now been reprinted, for instance. I'm not sure what the LDS would have to do with any of this. They microfilm practically everything -- which is terrific -- but they don't index and they don't generally even publish new stuff. However, there are also numerous microfilm sets/series of local histories which you can usually find in larger genealogy collections: Indiana county histories and so on. These were filmed as-is, usually with no indexes. I've thought for some years that a worthwhile (and marketable) project might be to do a *consolidated* index to the hundred or so volumes in one of those series. That means a few thousand hours in front of a microfilm reader with a laptop. (Or in front of a desktop if, like me, you own a film reader...) Fame awaits the person who compiles an every-name index to the Draper manuscripts, which have been filmed but not transcribed, so you have to read early 19th century penmanship on microfilm. But so far, the Wisconsin Historical Society won't give anyone permission to compile and publish such an index because they plan to do it themselves... someday. Maybe in a couple of decades. I've done some publishing of compiled records from courthouses and I hope to do more, now that I have time, and there's ALWAYS a market for that (larger or smaller, depending on the type of records and where they're located). Personally, I'm investigating the notarial records in some of the nearby parishes along the River, here in south Louisiana. The marriage, probate, and other "easy" records have been done long since, which is likely to be the case almost everywhere, but if you know the local courthouses and the more obscure sorts of public records, you can probably find unmined data. But then you have to know how to deal with the genealogical market! And you can't expect to earn a living at it! :) Apologies for running on with this, but it's an area not many people outside the relatively small coterie of genealogical editors and publishers ever think abut, or are even aware of--- Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:10:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Shrout Subject: Re: Fwd: Spell checker Nell and all, I use that poem as a partial answer to the question: Why can't indexes be computerized? It illustrates just one level, a minor one that we don't usually even think about during the process, of what is actually going on in our brains when we are indexing. So thanks for passing it on to Index-L. Every indexer should have a copy of it around somewhere. Richard Shrout ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:11:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Author citations In-Reply-To: <199902160036.QAA25746@dns1.mcn.org> A few thoughts on this subject. I too alert the publisher when I have suspicions about names. Almost always an effort is made by the publisher to address the issue. Always it puts me in good stead with the editor and publisher in question, and I can feel I did everything possible to correct the problem. In terms of collapsing full names into initials: it is true that the MLA vs. APA style causes inconsistencies. I always query, for a name index, how the publisher wants it handled. But, a caution: One cannot always simply take the name and make it into initials: a name written in "full" as Mina P. Shaunessy may be M. Shaunessy in APA style. The reason is that authors are expected to choose their authorial name (initial(s) plus last name) when they publish their first piece and forever after adhere to that. Thus, some (often older or unusual) APA names have a single initial, most have both. To be correct, one must consult the bibliography, though even with this style in place, texts still have mistakes in them. That is the point at which the indexer has to query the author/editor. In some books, bibliographies have mixed style, as previously mentioned, which to me is the most telling signal about whether one should make all names consistent or not. If the bibliography is mixed, then generally the names in the index should be mixed. No indexer should consent to do an index that includes bibliographical references without being given the bibliography. I've had to work from the rough draft of the biblio, but I had to have it, and got it. Last, if a book is APA style but the author gives some full names of references (contrary to style, btw), my publishers have asked me to make the names in the index consistent with APA style, which of course means consulting the biblio. Best, Victoria vbaker@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:12:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Schroeder Subject: Indexing Software Packages I am teaching a graduate course in Indexing at a University and want very much to conduct a session on the various Indexing Software packages. Since I do not use these packages, I sent off for various demo copies from the "leading" software companies. Unfortunately, the demo copies, do not seem to have any content in them. I expected a mini-index or sample data, so that I could understand how these packages work. I am not aware of any of the demo copies having this. I am faced with the daunting task of three blank software demos. Which is not very helpful, with everything else I must prepare for the course. My question is: 1) Is anyone aware of even one of the companies that has a sample index in it? 2) If not, is there an older sample of anyone's work out there that I could import into a demo? My goal is that the students can evaluate the packages and just begin to get familiar with their variables. I would appreciate your help. As you know indexing is a huge field and I am already covering so much, I simply can't dedicate three sessions to the software. Kim Schroeder Archive Impact ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:50:50 -0500 Reply-To: kamm@sky-software.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Indexing Software Packages In-Reply-To: <199902170316.WAA04671@mx06.erols.com> Hi Kim, << you wrote: I am teaching a graduate course in Indexing at a University and want very much to conduct a session on the various Indexing Software packages. Since I do not use these packages, I sent off for various demo copies from the "leading" software companies. Unfortunately, the demo copies, do not seem to have any content in them. I expected a mini-index or sample data, so that I could understand how these packages work. I am not aware of any of the demo copies having this. I am faced with the daunting task of three blank software demos. Which is not very helpful, with everything else I must prepare for the course. My question is: 1) Is anyone aware of even one of the companies that has a sample index in it? >> I will be *very* happy to supply you with a sample index for the SKY Index Professional demo, but I really don't think it will help you prepare for your course. The only way you can become knowledgeable with any of these programs is to actually use them. I suspect you're going to have to put some time into this that you had not planned on. Happy Indexing! Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner SKY Software 6016 Oxpen Ct, #303 Alexandria, VA 22315 email: kamm@sky-software.com web: http://www.sky-software.com phone: 800-776-0137 or 703-921-9472 fax: 703-921-9472 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:02:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? Mike, thanks for the great info!! Interesting to see you've thought about this a bit too. Kevin Mulrooney (I meant to say Maguires, not McGuires as the folks who subjugated my Irish ancestors. What exactly did "subjugate" mean?) Speaking of Irish jokes, [noone was but if they _had_ been] this is my favorite: "You can always tell an Irishman, but you can't tell him much". The reason I love this joke is that it's a joke within a joke. It's a joke _on_ the teller inside a joke _on_ Irishmen. The joke teller snickers, thinking he's made the Irishman out the fool. The Irishman smiles slyly, knowing the joke is really on the teller, and the best part is they don't even know it!! See to the Irishman, the words of the joke can be equally accurately interpreted linguistically to mean "sure you can't tell an Irishman much, because there isn't much he doesn't already know." So the Irishman who seems to be laughing _with_ you laughing at him is actually laughing _at_ you laughing at him. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:52:28 -0500 Reply-To: leditor@frontiernet.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "larry e. edmonson" Subject: Re: Genealogies - what to watch for/how to bid? indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: > > Speaking of Irish jokes, [noone was but if they _had_ been] this is my > favorite: "You can always tell an Irishman, but you can't tell him much". > ...It's a joke _on_ the teller inside a joke _on_ Irishmen. The joke teller snickers, > thinking he's made the Irishman out the fool. The Irishman smiles slyly, > knowing the joke is really on the teller, and the best part is they don't > even know it!!.... ---------------------------------------------------- > Dyslexics of the world untie! > The joke is even more complicated than that! It reaches Nabokovian proportions. For years, my family (and those who are not among its admirers) have used that same joke by saying "You can always tell an Edmonson but you can't tell them much." But the joke was on us because we were so opinionated that we couldn't even agree on how to spell our name--Edmonson/Edmonson/Edmundson/Edmiston/Edmonstone/etc. And then you end with your signature closing of "Dyslexics of the world untie!" -- little knowing that my first managing editor excoriated me for changing "Untied States" to "United States" on the rationale that if the author had meant "United States," he/she would have used that phrase. Is it any wonder that after the last family reunion that I sent out pictures of an arch in Quebec City bearing the inscription "Je me souviens" with the explanation that this was said to be our family motto but that no one remembered what it meant? As to the indexing topic under discussion....It is almost impossible to give too much detail in indexing genealogical works. The range of material being sought can be immense, particularly where the material being indexed intends to breath life into now-departed people rather than merely giving their names and dates. My take on this is that genealogical indexing can be more an offering of our contribution to those who will follow than a sound business proposition. This may be the ONE instance in which computerized word searches of digitalized material would be more useful than anything else. Larry Edmonson ...qui ne souvien rien mais qui "untie" avec "le best" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:40:33 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Indexing Software Packages Kim Schroeder wrote: > > Unfortunately, the demo copies, do not seem to have any content > in them. I expected a mini-index or sample data, so that I could > understand how these packages work. I am not aware of any of > the demo copies having this. > > Is anyone aware of even one of the companies that has a sample > index in it? The free demo of HTML Indexer includes a tutorial that demonstrates its features on two small sets of HTML files. You can also use the demo to index your own HTML files (the contents of which are presumably less trivial and more familiar). --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:47:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Subject: Indexing Software Packages Kim Schroeder asked if any demo software contains sample indexes. The downloadable demo for SkyIndex comes with a tutorial which shows you the basics by getting you to type in a few entries and manipulate them. It doesn't take long to run through (between half an hour and an hour from memory). That way you will have both a sample index to show and the practical knowledge to talk about it. When you download the demo the tutorial comes with it: the accompanying "Readme" file explains how to open it and print it out. I have used the demo in class, and I thought that the students learnt much more by having hands-on experience than just having me show them the software, though I did that too. The whole process took an hour. You can print off the tutorial and distribute copies to students. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:07:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith W. Kip" Subject: Appendices with chapter-section locators. = I'm currently indexing a long book on taxes. I am using chapter-section locators, not page numbers, and so my problem. There are= appendices within the body of the book (not back matter), for instance there are four IRS forms after chapter 27. They are labeled Appendix 27-= 1, 27-2, etc. If I were using page locators citing the samples would be no problem, but I am looking for an elegant way to indicate the locators as part of an appendix. I can't just use 27-1, because there is also a Chapter 27. Typing out *Appendix* does the job, but lacks appeal someho= w. I have queried the editor, but I also thought you folks might hav= e some time-tested solutions. Thanks, Judy Kip Owego, NY ( in the Finger Lakes region of New York, 20 miles west of Binghamton) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:27:49 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAHUDOBA@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Word 97 question Hi again folks, Many thanks to all who responded so quickly to my question about Word 97. As it turns out, I've decided to buy the update because it's likely that I'll be doing more work for this client. But I found all of your suggestions to be helpful and will hang on to many of them for future reference. The collective wisdom comes through again--you all are Great! Regards, Terri Hudoba Indexers Plus tahudoba@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 06:46:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Quicken vs. Quickbooks I used Quickbooks for my business for several years, then finally (like Dick) decided that it was overkill for me, since I didn't need double-entry bookkeeping, payroll, and all the the "bells & whistles" that it supports. So I'm now using Quicken Home & Business both for personal finances and for my business. (The data also imports nicely into TurboTax, a key feature for this time of year.) Quicken Home & Business does have built-in invoices, but I vastly prefer the invoice template that's available in Excel. Just click on New, and then select the Spreadsheet Solutions tab to get to the templates. I use the invoicing feature in Quicken H&B to record receivables and payments, but use the Excel invoice for billing. Carolyn Weaver Weaver Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:57:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Appendices with chapter-section locators. > I'm currently indexing a long book on taxes. I am using > chapter-section locators, not page numbers, and so my problem. There are= > > appendices within the body of the book (not back matter), for instance > there are four IRS forms after chapter 27. They are labeled Appendix 27-= > 1, > 27-2, etc. If I were using page locators citing the samples would be no > problem, but I am looking for an elegant way to indicate the locators as > part of an appendix. I can't just use 27-1, because there is also a > Chapter 27. Typing out *Appendix* does the job, but lacks appeal someho= > w. > I have queried the editor, but I also thought you folks might hav= > e > some time-tested solutions. > Thanks, > > Judy Kip > Owego, NY ( in the Finger Lakes region of New York, 20 miles west of > Binghamton) > Isn't statutory indexing fun? And tax law, too-- what a treat! :-) We deal with this all of the time, and there is just no way to get around including "appendix" or some abbreviation thereof in the reference. ("Appendix 27-2" or "Appx. 27-2" or "27-2 Appx.", if the appendix immediately succeeds section 27-2, but it doesn't sound like that it does). What's even more fun is when we have to index noted material (in some jurisdictions, including the US Code, it's part of the law) that isn't immediately associated with a section. You end up with references that look like "note prec. ' 1-201" or "Chapter 234, note." As you said, not elegant, but we can't change the arrangement of the code, so we have to make the best of it. Good luck! -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:31:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Part-Time Research Position (indexing) - Washington, D.C. >>>> X-Sender: dgainor@pop.cq.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:38:44 -0600 To: weekly@hub.cq.com, newmedia@hub.cq.com, monitor@hub.cq.com, har@hub.cq.com From: Dan Gainor < Subject: weekly-Subject: Part-Time Research Position Sender: owner-weekly@cq.com :::::::: Posted to the weekly at CQ by Dan Gainor ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Everybody: Bill Track is looking for some part-time help and we're not having a great deal of luck finding someone. Here's the situation: BillTrack, the legislative tracking portion of CQ.Com, is looking for part-time researchers to analyze, abstract, and enter information from the Congressional Record and other government documents for Congressional Quarterly's legislative tracking database. The position requirements include: a background in political science, journalism or English and knowledge of the legislative process; good analytical ability; strong typing skills and computer familiarity. Close attention to detail is critical, and deadline performance is a must. Congressional and/or database experience a plus. Candidates must be able to work Mon. through Fri., 8:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. If interested, please send a resume and cover to Dan Gainor, 1414 22nd St. NW, Wash. DC, 20037, or by FAX to (202) 887-5595. Thanks in advance for all of your help Dan Dan Gainor Managing Editor CQ.com Congressional Quarterly 1414 22nd St. NW Washington, D.C. 20037 phone: 202-822-1407 fax: 202-887-5595 dgainor@cq.com http://www.cq.com <<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:38:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" At 04:17 PM 2/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >The other day I was in Blockbuster's and noticed that the movie "Vampires" >was available on video. Last night I went back to rent it but couldn't >find it. There was no trace of it in the "V" section. I could have sworn >I'd seen it just a couple of days earlier. While browsing for an >alternative selection, I found it under "J." > >Why? According to the clerk because it's "John Carpenter's Vampires." >(Carpenter being the director, whose name, admittedly appears in very small >type before the title.) > >Dick > > Another product of our fine publik skoole sistem. mjb warshingten de ce ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:54:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" > Another product of our fine publik skoole sistem. > > mjb > warshingten de ce > Why assume that the one who made this decision came from public schools? I've known quite a few idiots who have come from private schools, and even from home schooling. Unfortunately, idiocy knows no boundaries! :-) A good education is no substitute for common sense. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:06:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" Maybe I'm wrong here, but..... isn't "John Carpenter's Vampires" the actual NAME of the movie? A silly name, perhaps, but the movie's name nonetheless? As indexers, aren't you interested in categorizing things according to their actual names, not the names you think they should have? Logically, of course, we might expect the movie to be in the "V" section, but in the video store's database, the "official" title appears in the "J" section. From the perspective of the person working in the video store, placing that movie in the "V" section would be the equivalent of placing "Forrest Gump" in the "G" section. Just playing devil's advocate. John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:46:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" In-Reply-To: <199902171215.rclu94.tj0.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> At 12:06 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Maybe I'm wrong here, but..... isn't "John Carpenter's Vampires" the actual >NAME of the movie? A silly name, perhaps, but the movie's name nonetheless? You may have a point. In Leonard Maltin's Movie and Video Guide, I find "Andy Warhol's Frankenstein" and "Andy Warhol's Dracula." However, it leaves me with the same complaint: no entries under "Frankenstein" or "Dracula." The Internet Movie Database includes "Vampires" with the note "AKA John Carpenter's Vampires." Similarly, IMDB handles the 1992 Francis Coppola version of Dracula as "Dracula" and notes "AKA Bram Stoker's Dracula." Maltin's Book at least has an entry for "Dracula: See Bram Stoker's Dracula." Why it has no similar "See" ref for "Andy Warhols' Dracula" is anyone's guess. All in all, I think IMDB handles it the best. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:05:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" At 12:06 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Maybe I'm wrong here, but..... isn't "John Carpenter's Vampires" the actual >NAME of the movie? A silly name, perhaps, but the movie's name nonetheless? >As indexers, aren't you interested in categorizing things according to their >actual names, not the names you think they should have? Logically, of >course, we might expect the movie to be in the "V" section, but in the video >store's database, the "official" title appears in the "J" section. From the >perspective of the person working in the video store, placing that movie in >the "V" section would be the equivalent of placing "Forrest Gump" in the "G" >section. > >Just playing devil's advocate. > >John Sullivan > > A good point, if in fact it is so. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:19:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" John Sullivan wrote: >Maybe I'm wrong here, but..... isn't "John Carpenter's Vampires" the actual >NAME of the movie? A silly name, perhaps, but the movie's name nonetheless? >As indexers, aren't you interested in categorizing things according to their >actual names, not the names you think they should have? Logically, of >course, we might expect the movie to be in the "V" section, but in the video >store's database, the "official" title appears in the "J" section. From the >perspective of the person working in the video store, placing that movie in >the "V" section would be the equivalent of placing "Forrest Gump" in the "G" >section. > >Just playing devil's advocate. And well played I would say. Hopefully the store's database has their titles in a full-text searchable database. I don't do Blockbuster so I wouldn't know. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:33:15 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" Another pertinent item to this discussion is that Leonard Maltin's Movie and Video Guide* is alphabetized letter-by-letter while the Blockbuster Video Guide to Movies and Videos is alphabetized word-by-word. Maltin's book has an explanation of the scheme, while Blockbuster's doesn't. As a user I prefer letter-by-letter by a mile. Craig Brown * as of 1992 ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:51:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" At 12:06 PM 2/17/1999 -0500, John R. Sullivan wrote: >Maybe I'm wrong here, but..... isn't "John Carpenter's Vampires" the actual >NAME of the movie? A silly name, perhaps, but the movie's name nonetheless? >As indexers, aren't you interested in categorizing things according to their >actual names, not the names you think they should have? My perspective...while it may be technically correct to list and store the movie under "C" for Carpenter, probably 90% of viewers will think of the movie as being under "V." A few might also think to look under "J." My goal as an indexer is to help the reader (or, in this case, the viewer) find the information, not adhere strictly to technical correctness. If I were in charge of that store and that database, I would be sure to make the movie as easy to find as possible. My goal, in that scenario of course, is to rent movies! I would probably choose to put most of the copies under V for Vampire, and have a few under C and J for John Carpenter. If I didn't have enough movies to go around, I'd put dummy boxes in each location, telling viewers where the movie was actually filed (a real "see" reference, if you will). And I'd do the same for the database...insert a "see" reference at every possible look-up point. And finally, I would only hire clerks who (a) enjoy and watch movies and (b) understand how to use an index. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:01:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" John Sullivan writes: >Maybe I'm wrong here, but..... isn't "John Carpenter's Vampires" the actual >NAME of the movie? A silly name, perhaps, but the movie's name nonetheless? >As indexers, aren't you interested in categorizing things according to their >actual names, not the names you think they should have? Logically, of >course, we might expect the movie to be in the "V" section, but in the video >store's database, the "official" title appears in the "J" section. From the >perspective of the person working in the video store, placing that movie in >the "V" section would be the equivalent of placing "Forrest Gump" in the "G" >section. This is certainly so. According to Anglo-American cataloguing rules it is "described" under the title as it appears, which may not be the title it is known by. However, that being said, alternate titles are quite common for films, either because of title changes made for distribution purposes or because of variations in titles between opening screen and packaging (in addition to popular forms of the titles). In an ideal system (like in a well-organized library), there would be cross-ref entries under all the title variants with location instructions provided pointing to the one place it is shelved. I worked for a number of years supervising cataloguing of films for Film/Video Canadiana (our then national filmography). Title variation was a problem that appeared regularly. One of the problems I find with video stores is that they are a cross between a store and a fee-based library, but they have not yet mastered the finer aspects of library-type information management. Christine **************************************************************************** ******* Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Co-Chair Information and Library Technologies Dept. John Abbott College P.O. Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue QC Canada H9X 3L9 (514) 457-6610, loc 470; fax: (514) 457-4730 **************************************************************************** ******** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:32:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melissa Riesland Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" In-Reply-To: <199902171715.JAA12679@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Interestingly enough, this is how the cataloging rules (AACR2) would have you list the movie (John Carpenter's Vampire). But it also would allow an alternate title or added-entry title (MARC fields) for Vampire. Thus, if you were online, it would retrieve under either John Carpenter's Vampire or Vampire. If you were in a card catalog, you'd handle it through cross-references, just like an index. A cataloger's point of view... ################################################### Melissa A. Riesland University of Washington Graduate School of Library and Information Science E-mail: riesland@u.washington.edu Web: weber.u.washington.edu/~riesland/ ################################################### On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, John R. Sullivan wrote: > Maybe I'm wrong here, but..... isn't "John Carpenter's Vampires" the actual > NAME of the movie? A silly name, perhaps, but the movie's name nonetheless? > As indexers, aren't you interested in categorizing things according to their > actual names, not the names you think they should have? Logically, of > course, we might expect the movie to be in the "V" section, but in the video > store's database, the "official" title appears in the "J" section. From the > perspective of the person working in the video store, placing that movie in > the "V" section would be the equivalent of placing "Forrest Gump" in the "G" > section. > > Just playing devil's advocate. > > John Sullivan > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:31:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Humor I found the following in a recent "Only in LA" column in the Los Angeles Times Dr. Mark Roberts, a South Bay dentist, couldn't find any Water Piks in a local drugstore until he happened to notice them in the camera department. "All I can figure is that someone entered them in the computer as Water Piks--spelled p-i-c-s," he said. Yes, the water pics were next to the underwater cameras. ToniW ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:25:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" Re John Sullivan's point. We indexers tend to think the whole world sees things through _our_ eyes. Even if we _are_ technically right, I suspect many people, without being encumbered by the kind of cataloging theory we're aware of, would observe the indexing pattern used and just go by it, without ever giving much thought to it. To them "John Carpenter's Vampires" is as "logical" a place to look as "Vampires", so for us to say one is "right" and one is "wrong" misses the point. As Sonsie points out, savvy video store owners should use a video "double posting" or cross-reference system. May be a business opportunity here for someone to call themselves Movie Cataloging Consultant and help video stores accomplish this. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:36:35 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" Craig: Actually neither movie guide is as complete as the Video Hound regardless of the index. Rob Razorsharp Communications, Inc. fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:30:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: "Vampires" under "J" -- schooling types > Why assume that the one who made this decision came from public schools? > I've known quite a few idiots who have come from private schools, and even > from home schooling. Unfortunately, idiocy knows no boundaries! :-) A > good education is no substitute for common sense. > > -- Sharon W. > Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com Private schools and homeschooling can each be as good as (or better) than the best public schools, and as bad as (or worse) than the worst public schools. Some private/parochial schools use substandard teachers (and most of them pay substandard wages); others choose only good, highly educated teachers and pay them reasonably well. Homeschooling can be limited by either the understanding or the teaching skills of the parent, as well as by the parent-child dynamic; it can produce stellar students in the right conditions, and abysmal ones in the wrong conditions. (I used to teach in a private school; I saw students who had been schooled publicly, privately, and at home. They ran the gamut in terms of ability and skills.) Common sense is another question entirely. But I think, based on my own education, that it can be a product of education as well as something "innate." It is, however, a necessary component of good indexing! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:03:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Indexing/Abstractor position Write to Angela for more information, not to me. This posting was received by the ASI administrative office. >Needed: Computed assisted indexing of legal material in the Trenton >area. Long term project. Work may be done off site with initial visits >to site. Please contact Angela Dzikowski at Pro Libra Associates, Inc. >1-800-262-00070. Fax# 973-763-6500. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:38:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Macrex Sewarc/Replace Question I know I should know how to do this, but I don't [hanging head in embarrassment]. I need to change a chapter number in an index where all entries are preceded by a chapter number: Chapter 21 ---> Chapter 22 Chapter 22 ---> Chapter 21 Entries have been typed thusly: \21\.2, \22\.35, and so forth I'm trying to use Group mode to gather all the chapter 21 entries together, then replace them with a dummy chapter number, then do the same with chapter 22 entries. Then I want to make the switch. Chapter [a] would become Chapter 22 instead of 21, and Chapter [b] would become 21 instead of 22. (The reason I think I need to do this in two steps is because if I change all chapter 21 entries, they will simply merge with the current chapter 21 entries into a big mess. Right? So I need to create two dummy chapter letters first, THEN rename each to the correct chapter number.) I can't seem to find a group search mode string that will bring up all entries in Chapter 21 as a group. I'm having trouble understanding the search terminology in the manual, and I am slowly tearing out my hair. Can anybody guide me here? Thanks! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:47:07 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Macrex Sewarc/Replace Question In-Reply-To: <199902180641.WAA14637@nccn.net> At 10:38 PM 2/17/99 -0800, you wrote: >I need to change a chapter number in an index where all entries are preceded >by a chapter number: > > Chapter 21 ---> Chapter 22 > Chapter 22 ---> Chapter 21 > >Entries have been typed thusly: > > \21\.2, \22\.35, and so forth > >I'm trying to use Group mode to gather all the chapter 21 entries together, >then replace them with a dummy chapter number, then do the same with chapter >22 entries. Then I want to make the switch. Chapter [a] would become Chapter >22 instead of 21, and Chapter [b] would become 21 instead of 22. (The reason >I think I need to do this in two steps is because if I change all chapter 21 >entries, they will simply merge with the current chapter 21 entries into a >big mess. Right? So I need to create two dummy chapter letters first, THEN >rename each to the correct chapter number.) > >I can't seem to find a group search mode string that will bring up all >entries in Chapter 21 as a group. I'm having trouble understanding the >search terminology in the manual, and I am slowly tearing out my hair. Can >anybody guide me here? Thanks! > > =Sonsie= Sonsie: You don't need to use Group mode at all -- Search and Replace will suffice -- but if you want to know how to gather all the chapter 21 entries together anyway, group on the string "\\21\\". Perhaps you didn't realize that in order to search or group on the backslash character (as well as lots of other special characters) you need to precede it with the backslash operator. Of course you're right in saying that you can't switch chapter numbers directly, but you need only one dummy number, say "00": save what you have and then 1) search on "\\21\\" and replace it with "\00\"; 2) search on "\\22\\" and replace it with "\21\"; and 3) search on "\\00\\" and replace it with "\22\". So . . . Snip snap snout My tale is told out Michael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:40:36 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Hi everyone, Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. It is on March 10. So far acc. to the letter, the jury duty is only for 1 day. But it may linger on also. I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in written (in the form of a contract) to the court. Obviously, I have nothing to prove to the court about my *verbal deadline* with the publishers. I have not talked to my clients yet about this jury duty thing. I want to know how do indexers on Index-L handle these kinds of situation? If I do not go to jury duty, I can be sent to jail (acc. to the letter). I guess I am in big trouble. Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks a lot. Manjit K. Sahai ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:46:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Hi, All. Manjit wrote: << I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in written (in the form of a contract) to the court.>> From what I understand about jury duty, if you are self-employed you are automatically excused because serving would cause financial hardship for you. In other words, who's going to pay the bills while you earn that whopping $5/day sitting in a court room. (I'm basing this on the situation in California.) I would just send the form back with a written explanation that you work for yourself and can't afford to sacrifice whole work days for jury duty. Usually on the form there's a place to check "financial hardship" and write a brief note. I'd love to know what others have experienced. Karen Field Technical Writer, Editor, Indexer San Diego, CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:52:44 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kay Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Manjit - Three suggestions - 1. take page proofs and marking equipment with you and/or obtain a laptop for entering/editing. 2. find another indexer or two that is willing to take the project (or parts of it) in case you are called to serve. 3. Let your editor know about any changes if you are selected. most will be understanding if they know that you are on top of it. Good luck! Kay -----Original Message----- From: Manjit Sahai To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 2:41 PM Subject: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty >Hi everyone, > >Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. It is on March >10. So far acc. to the letter, the jury duty is only for 1 day. But it >may linger on also. > >I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The >problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. >In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in >written (in the form of a contract) to the court. Obviously, I have >nothing to prove to the court about my *verbal deadline* with the >publishers. I have not talked to my clients yet about this jury duty >thing. > >I want to know how do indexers on Index-L handle these kinds of >situation? If I do not go to jury duty, I can be sent to jail (acc. to >the letter). I guess I am in big trouble. > >Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. > >Thanks a lot. > >Manjit K. Sahai > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In California you can call the court and ask for a new date. Roberta Horowitz At 12:40 PM 2/18/99 PST, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. It is on March >10. So far acc. to the letter, the jury duty is only for 1 day. But it >may linger on also. > >I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The >problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. >In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in >written (in the form of a contract) to the court. Obviously, I have >nothing to prove to the court about my *verbal deadline* with the >publishers. I have not talked to my clients yet about this jury duty >thing. > >I want to know how do indexers on Index-L handle these kinds of >situation? If I do not go to jury duty, I can be sent to jail (acc. to >the letter). I guess I am in big trouble. > >Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. > >Thanks a lot. > >Manjit K. Sahai > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:53:12 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In-Reply-To: > Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. I did jury duty last year (in the UK). I had no work at the time but others at the court had and they were put at considerable inconvenience. I don't know what relationship you have with the clients but if they want the jobs done perhaps they would provide you with evidence to present to the court. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:56:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty > >Hi everyone, > > > >Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. It is on March > >10. So far acc. to the letter, the jury duty is only for 1 day. But it > >may linger on also. > > > >I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The > >problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. > >In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in > >written (in the form of a contract) to the court. Obviously, I have > >nothing to prove to the court about my *verbal deadline* with the > >publishers. I have not talked to my clients yet about this jury duty > >thing. > > > >Manjit K. Sahai > > > Jury duty rules vary wildly from state to state. Call the clerk of the court, explain the situation and ask them what options you have-- it's best to go to the source. Most jurisdictions will allow you to change court dates at least once with no problem, but after that you'd better have a very good reason! Good luck! -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:58:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In a message dated 99-02-18 15:42:33 EST, you write: << Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. It is on March 10. So far acc. to the letter, the jury duty is only for 1 day. But it may linger on also. >> When I had jury duty this year, I brought my work with me. For much of the first day, I sat and worked on my book. There were tables in the waiting room. Unfortunately, when I got assigned to a jury selection group, I was chosen for the jury. Afterwards, the lawyer said he specifically tried to get me on the jury because my background made him think I'd be a logical thinker. He said he passed over other candidates to get me.. ( any other indexers find this?) Anyway, I brought my papers with me to the jury room and worked whenever possible. Before the trial, during lawyer discussions, at lunch, and during coffee breaks there was time to get some work done, Then, I worked at night. I was lucky that the case was settled relatively quickly and my deadlines were still a week away. Its hard to get an exemption and if you do get one, the next time you are called, you may also have a deadline. I'd gamble on it being one day, I'd have an indexing buddy who could help out, and I'd work at night if necessary. Because this will only come up again and you'll be in the same position. Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:04:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty On 2/18/99 3:46 PM, Karen Field wrote: >From what I understand about jury duty, if you are self-employed you are >automatically excused because serving would cause financial hardship for >you. In Massachusetts, the form explicitly states that self-employment does not constitute financial hardship. You must show up and explain your circumstances in person -- maybe you'll get off, maybe not. I'd either finish the projects before March 10 or get something in writing from the publisher. They shouldn't have a problem with giving you a letter stating that you're working for them during that period. Kate ------------------------------------- Kate Binder, Ursa Editorial Design UrsaDesign@aol.com http://members.aol.com/ursadesign ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty > Its hard to get an exemption and if you do get one, the next time you > are > called, you may also have a deadline. I'd gamble on it being one day, I'd > have an indexing buddy who could help out, and I'd work at night if > necessary. > Because this will only come up again and you'll be in the same position. > Sharon Hughes > ... of course, the good news is that once you've served, you're in the clear for a number of years in most jurisdictions. -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:06:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Since March 10 is still almost 3 weeks away, can you work an hour or two extra each day and get the indexes done early? Of course, I'm assuming that you either have started them already or will have a reasonable amount of time, like two weeks, to do them. I would definitely check, though, on whether you can get a deferral this time. Most places in which I have lived allow at least one deferral without much explanation. Good luck, Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:09:37 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty I was on call for jury duty for three months (Oct.-Dec. last year) during a really busy time. I'm in Indiana, and as I understand it, there are very few "outs"--and self-employment is NOT one of them. I felt I could give up a day--that's not too difficult to make up by working several extra hours a day. But nonetheless I was worried that I'd get a call for a long trial. So the first thing I'd ask is, How long will the trial last that you've been called for? When I actually had to appear for jury duty, the first thing they said was, "This will be a one-day trial. We might be there till midnight, but it would be done today." So that was an immediate relief (and then I relaxed a bit and actually enjoyed participating in the process. It took all morning to pick a six-person jury and they never got to me, so I got to go home at noon.). Then, if the trial does go longer, take work with you (there are breaks and lunch breaks), find another indexer to help out, or explain to your clients what's going on. In fact, the whole time I was on call for jury duty, I kept any clients that I was working with at that time informed about my jury duty situation, and all were understanding. Of course, I also made myself keep on top of projects and not get behind. One time when I was grumbling about the whole jury duty thing, a friend said to me that if she was on trial for something she would want someone intelligent and thoughtful (like an indexer?) on the jury. She didn't remind me that we have an obligation to serve as U.S. citizens, though she could have also said that. :) Margie Towery Towery Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:28:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: software package demos If you get the Macrex demo from the distributor (Gale Rhoades, call 650-756-0821) you get the tutorial, which includes a sample index, and the Getting Started manual. This material should be helpful in letting your students get a sense of the program. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:42:27 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In a message dated 99-02-18 16:11:51 EST, Margie wrote: << ...a friend said to me, if she was on trial for something she would want someone intelligent and thoughtful (like an indexer?) on the jury. She didn't remind me that we have an obligation to serve as U.S. citizens, though she could have also said that. >> Margie's friend is onto the real truth. Given the bizarre cases and inexplicable verdicts that reach the news, if I were on trial, I'd certainly want jury members who were capable of clear thinking. I have served on a jury just once, but have been called for duty several times where cases were settled out of court and we were dismissed early. During the one time I did serve, I received an education no book could possibly convey. Not only should everyone serve sometime, we need to remember that we are part of democratic communities which would fall apart without participation by many, many individuals. Democracy is NOT a spectator sport! Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:14:58 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Manjit, This is what I have gleaned from my limited experience. ( I got three (3) notices within 12 months for different courts, and I have never been called for jury duty before or since. My lucky no. was up that year. ;-) ) 1. Call the court and see what they can tell you about exceptions or delaying the duty. Usually it is pretty easy to delay so as to serve on a jury later when you are, hopefully, less busy. 2. Don't necessarily believe what they tell you, esp. if they promise to do something for you. 3. If worse comes to worse, get letters from your clients saying that you will lose the work if you cannot meet the deadline. Then beg the judge! If he/she has surplus jurors you would probably be one of the 1st. let off the hook. Then you might lose a morning, but no more. My experiences: #1 - Magistrate's court: my receptionist forgot to remind me that I had to leave early to get there at 5:30pm. I called the clerk in a tizzy at approx. 5:25, and she said not to worry, they had plenty of jurors. #2 County court: This could have lasted for a week or more. Although "persons" promised that I would not have to come (they would speak to the judge), I did have to go. After an enlightening morning of hearing why other people thought they should not have to serve, the judge decided he could spare me being as I ran a solo business with several employees that couldn't operate without me. (I explained that it was hard to line up a relief vet on the basis of, "I might need you one day, or the whole week, or maybe more.") #3 Small Claims Court: This one I got stuck with, and had the most boring day of my life over the confrontation of two parties who each claimed the other owed them about $500 to $600. We jurors got out of there about 3pm after being totally fed up with the whole thing, and basically our decision was that the two parties were even (and wished that we could have added that they were both acting like two- year-olds who had broken their rattles!). And, so, Sharon is right. It varies a lot, not only from state to state, but from one court to another within a state. Good luck! Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? > Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. It is on March > 10. So far acc. to the letter, the jury duty is only for 1 day. But it > may linger on also. > > I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The > problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. > In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in > written (in the form of a contract) to the court. Obviously, I have > nothing to prove to the court about my *verbal deadline* with the > publishers. I have not talked to my clients yet about this jury duty > thing. > > I want to know how do indexers on Index-L handle these kinds of > situation? If I do not go to jury duty, I can be sent to jail (acc. to > the letter). I guess I am in big trouble. > > Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. > > Thanks a lot. > > Manjit K. Sahai > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:15:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In a message dated 2/18/99 4:07:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM writes: > > > ... of course, the good news is that once you've served, you're in the clear > for a number of years in most jurisdictions. > And the bad news is only for *that* court. You can serve on county court, and still be called for magistrate, state or (shudder) federal court. And if you are called but don't get chosen to serve, I think you can get called again - not sure on that one. Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:19:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty At 12:40 PM 2/18/1999 PST, Manjit Sahai wrote: >I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The >problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. >In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in >written (in the form of a contract) to the court. Obviously, I have >nothing to prove to the court about my *verbal deadline* with the >publishers. I have not talked to my clients yet about this jury duty >thing. Call your clients and explain the situation, and ask them for letters that explain the deadline situation. You should be able to use these letters to POSTPONE (not eliminate) your jury duty this time. Good luck! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:19:35 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty At 12:46 PM 2/18/1999 -0800, Karen Field wrote: >>From what I understand about jury duty, if you are self-employed you are >automatically excused because serving would cause financial hardship for >you. In other words, who's going to pay the bills while you earn that >whopping $5/day sitting in a court room. (I'm basing this on the situation >in California.) I would just send the form back with a written explanation >that you work for yourself and can't afford to sacrifice whole work days for >jury duty. Usually on the form there's a place to check "financial hardship" >and write a brief note. There's no such thing as an "automatic excuse" from jury duty unless you are actually unfit to serve...ever. You have to be mentally unable to understand the proceedings, or physically incapable of attending, or over 75 (I think that's the age in CA). Otherwise, it's pretty circumstantial. I have gotten off jury duty for an extended period (something like 4 years) because I had an infant. I have also been excused (once only) because of pressing deadlines and being a sole proprietor. But I had to make a little presentation about it, and my duty was postponed, not eliminated. Financial hardship is usually accepted, but you also have to prove that you really qualify. All these comments are based on CA experiences only. YMMV. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:21:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty ...And if you are called but don't get chosen to serve, I think you can get called again - > not sure on that one. > Yep. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:21:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199902181720.rcp4hj.15b.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> Sole proprietorship worked for me twice here in Wash. state. I got two notices (municipal and state?) within one month, and each accepted the excuse when I called. Jan Wright At 02:19 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >At 12:46 PM 2/18/1999 -0800, Karen Field wrote: > >>>From what I understand about jury duty, if you are self-employed you are >>automatically excused because serving would cause financial hardship for >>you. In other words, who's going to pay the bills while you earn that >>whopping $5/day sitting in a court room. (I'm basing this on the situation >>in California.) I would just send the form back with a written explanation >>that you work for yourself and can't afford to sacrifice whole work days for >>jury duty. Usually on the form there's a place to check "financial hardship" >>and write a brief note. > >There's no such thing as an "automatic excuse" from jury duty unless you are >actually unfit to serve...ever. You have to be mentally unable to understand >the proceedings, or physically incapable of attending, or over 75 (I think >that's the age in CA). > >Otherwise, it's pretty circumstantial. I have gotten off jury duty for an >extended period (something like 4 years) because I had an infant. I have >also been excused (once only) because of pressing deadlines and being a sole >proprietor. But I had to make a little presentation about it, and my duty >was postponed, not eliminated. Financial hardship is usually accepted, but >you also have to prove that you really qualify. > >All these comments are based on CA experiences only. YMMV. > > =Sonsie= > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:26:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty > There's no such thing as an "automatic excuse" from jury duty unless you > are > actually unfit to serve...ever. You have to be mentally unable to > understand > the proceedings, or physically incapable of attending, or over 75 (I think > that's the age in CA). > > Otherwise, it's pretty circumstantial. I have gotten off jury duty for an > extended period (something like 4 years) because I had an infant. I have > also been excused (once only) because of pressing deadlines and being a > sole > proprietor. But I had to make a little presentation about it, and my duty > was postponed, not eliminated. Financial hardship is usually accepted, but > you also have to prove that you really qualify. > > All these comments are based on CA experiences only. YMMV. > > =Sonsie= > FYI, lawyers are also automatically excused in some jurisdictions. Look over the other categories of "automatic excusals" and fill in your own joke-- lord knows most of my friends have! :-) This ranks right up there with the old classification of "children, madmen and married women" as people who couldn't make binding contracts or hold property. Note that single women could... -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:38:36 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty (long) Sonsie wrote: <> What I meant by "automatically excused" was that you could be excused (for that time, at least) by returning the form with an explanation. Generally, self employment DOES work in CA, because my fiance, a software developer who runs a company, has had to bow out more than once due to financial hardship. On the note about being called after you served, in CA it's completely random. My father was called three times in one year, and he served the first two of those three times. Serving is no doubt worthwhile, valuable, an obligation to your community. But I'm still flabbergasted that other states think self-employment isn't a worthy excuse, at least once in awhile. Just who WILL pay the bills if you end up on a long-term case? Should you stay up late working each night to make up the time you lost that day? How will staying up late or fretting over lost income improve your decision-making abilities on jury duty? Most employers of salaried employees withhold earnings for the possibility of jury duty, just like they do for vacation, so even if your duties aren't covered, your paycheck is. Also, in CA, when I've been called, I've noticed a tendency for lawyers (dare I say it-defense lawyers?) to shy away from professional, analytical people. Anyone else notice this? I would absolutely want someone with an indexer's critical-thinking abilities in the juror's box if I were on trial. I mean to offend no one with these comments, and I hope I haven't offended anyone. Have a good day all. KF ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:44:52 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199902182041.PAA27619@mail2.bellsouth.net> |Today I received a notice from the court for jury duty. It is on March |10. So far acc. to the letter, the jury duty is only for 1 day. But it |may linger on also. | |I have 2 projects due on March 12 with two different clients. The |problem is there is *no* written contract between me and the publishers. |In order to get rid of the jury duty, I have to show something in |written (in the form of a contract) to the court. Obviously, I have |nothing to prove to the court about my *verbal deadline* with the |publishers. I have not talked to my clients yet about this jury duty |thing. | |Manjit K. Sahai As everyone else has mostly said, you just have to go and take your chances -- like everyone else. And hope you don't get selected for something like the Microsoft trial, with 8 or 10 weeks in the jury box. In all the years I worked for the City of Dallas, I got called for jury duty about every 18-22 months, on average (I kept track). And I *never* got put on a jury, because (1) I was "too well educated," (2) I was in the section of the Library that included the law books, and (3) I had long-ish hair and a beard for much of that time. With "luck," you may be unselectable.... In Texas, and in most places, you can get an almost automatic delay ONCE -- but you'd damn well better show up the second time! (In Texas, you're guaranteed to be called up the second time within 30 days.) So, if you get chosen, just take your stuff along and work at odd moments, or stay up late at night. And enjoy the trial! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:47:12 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199902182050.PAA08924@mail4.bellsouth.net> |From what I understand about jury duty, if you are self-employed you are |automatically excused because serving would cause financial hardship for |you. In other words, who's going to pay the bills while you earn that |whopping $5/day sitting in a court room. (I'm basing this on the situation |in California.) I would just send the form back with a written explanation |that you work for yourself and can't afford to sacrifice whole |work days for jury duty. Usually on the form there's a place to check |"financial hardship" and write a brief note. | |Karen Field |Technical Writer, Editor, Indexer |San Diego, CA Are you sure, Karen? Getting an automatic pass just because you're self-employed almost sounds unconstitutional, since it would warp the jury pool by effectively eliminating an entire class of the citizenry... Usually, the only people automatically excused (if they choose to be) are enrolled students and the elderly. Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty (long) Also, in CA, when I've been called, I've noticed a tendency for lawyers (dare I say it-defense lawyers?) to shy away from professional, analytical people. Anyone else notice this? I would absolutely want someone with an indexer's critical-thinking abilities in the juror's box if I were on trial. This is totally off-topic, so I'll keep it short, but from an "insider's" perspective, your observation is probably correct. Jury selection has become something of an (overblown, if you ask me) art form. Everyone has their pet theory on how jurors should be selected-- there are even Continuing Legal Education seminars on that topic! It varies from case to case, but often a lawyer will deliberately shy away from a "professional, analytical" person if they think that that person has too many leadership qualities. They don't want someone who will "take over" the jury, or anyone to whom the jury might defer. This is the real reason why lawyers are eliminated from the jury pool-- because the lawyers trying the case don't want a fellow attorney to provide color commentary or insider knowledge in the jury room, and they fear that the jurors will defer to the lawyer's perspective. For the same reason, many lawyers will eliminate doctors, dentists, professors, teachers or anyone else that they feel the rest of the jury may defer to. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:55:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Mike Smith wrote: >>Are you sure, Karen? Getting an automatic pass just because you're self-employed almost sounds unconstitutional, since it would warp the jury pool by effectively eliminating an entire class of the citizenry...<< Excellent point, Mike. But in paying attention to the make-up of the OJ Simpson trial jury, I noticed that almost all jurors were either unemployed or employed by the government, the only two employment statuses (apparently) that could accommodate a long-term trial in which the jury was sequestered. This leads to a whole other argument of jury reform, but I digress. On another note, I'd like to tell everyone how much I enjoy index-l. Not only do I get to read, learn about, and comment on my passion of indexing, I've "met" some of the most articulate and intelligent people here. These discussions (as they relate to indexing, of course), are fascinating. Now, because I think we're getting off the topic of indexing, it's back to work for me. KF ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:04:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty Karen Field wrote: >>From what I understand about jury duty, if you are self-employed you are >automatically excused because serving would cause financial hardship for >you. This is in general not true. I was called for jury duty about a month ago and there is ___no___ general self-employment excuse for jury duty at least in Del. You may be able to whine your way out of it with the judge, but then again he/she may just decide to teach you a lesson in your own true relative (un)importance. It is the duty and responsibility of all citizens regardless of their job, income, or personal life situation to serve if called. I served on a criminal jury in Richmond about 12 years ago so I have done it already; I second the comments of several others about what an education it is. The only sure way to get out of jury duty is to have a felony conviction. That may be a bit extreme just to meet a deadline. I freaked when I got my notice in early January. It said the following: complex civil trial of at least 4 weeks duration. Remember I live in Delaware where all the companies like to incorporate because of the lax incorporation laws. One hint: be sure you call the jury office the night before you're set to show up to save your time if the trial is settled out of court. Manjit, dealing with such stress is a minimum essential indexer requirement. There's a lot of time between now and March 10. Get as much done as possible on both projects, including (very important) as much editing as possible, so you don't have to deal with a largely unedited index at the last minute. About March 1-3, you'll need to assess exactly where you stand. If you don't think you're in good enough shape there are plenty of indexers who could do part of the work for you. Editing is key: if the overall index is in good shape the end may involve just indexing the last batch, doing another edit which would go quickly since you've hopefully done most of it, then e-mailing it away. Talk to the editors; you may find one or both projects have a few days play in the deadline. Finally as several have pointed out try to get a postponement of your duty, but figure on your needing to do it eventually. One last tip if you find you need to do an allnighter: do it on the night of March 10-11, work till perhaps 3-5, get a decent amount of sleep, like say 6-7 hours, then get up fairly refreshed on the 11th and hammer away. In other words don't try to do your allnighter on the _very last_ night before the deadline. Otherwise by 8-10 am of the deadline day the lack of sleep and stress will produce a near psychotic state and your indexing will suffer. From all I've heard and seen I agree with Mike and others that appearing analytical and intelligent is the _best_ way to keep from getting called. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:03:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JJDalton Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 10 Feb 1999 to 11 Feb 1999 I asked this of the indexstudent list, and was referred to this list as a far better source. Question? Would it be proper/prudent to ask the group if my tentative business name is known to any of them? I am trying not to duplicate a name and then have to rethink a new one (sometimes creative thinking is a slow and painful process). IF it is acceptable to the group/moderator I will put it forward. Thanks in advance John 8^D jjdalton@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:27:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Becky & Bob Hornyak Subject: Mouse Alternatives I wanted to update you on a post I made a couple of months ago. In response to pain in my elbow which I attributed to using the mouse frequently and intensely (I do embedded indexing and used it to navigate), I decided to try something different. I purchased the Cirque Smart Cat touchpad. This is not the version I inquired about, but a scaled-down version that was half the price and still had all the features I wanted. The best suggestion I received was that the pain could be from repeatedly making the movement from keyboard to mouse. So, I keep the touchpad at the base of my keyboard and no longer make that motion! I am pleased to report that it was easy to make the adjustment to the touchpad, and I haven't been bothered by the elbow pain. Thanks to all who responded. Becky Hornyak, Indexer bhornyak@iquest.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:38:06 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 10 Feb 1999 to 11 Feb 1999 I certainly don't have a problem with you submitting your proposed name, however, you do know that in order to "do business as ...." you need to register your fictious name? By fictious name I am, of course, referring to your business name, not a made-up pen name. Once you attempt to register your fictious name ("doing business as...") you'll be quickly informed if some other business entity (not just indexers but also retail stores etc.) are using the name which you have submitted. I believe that you are routinely informed about businesses within your state but there may be a way to check nation-wide. And while many indexers do use fictious names there are also many of us old timers who do not use fictious names. It seems to work either way. Best, Sylvia Coates JJDalton wrote: > I asked this of the indexstudent list, and was referred to this list as a > far better source. > > Question? Would it be proper/prudent to ask the group if my tentative > business name is known to any of them? I am trying not to duplicate a name > and then have to rethink a new one (sometimes creative thinking is a slow > and painful process). IF it is acceptable to the group/moderator I will put > it forward. > > Thanks in advance > > John 8^D jjdalton@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:10:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Mouse Alternatives The Cirque Wave2 keyboard accomplishes the same thing by having the touchpad built into the keyboard right under the cursor keys. In a year of using it, the only trouble I had in the beginning was training my right wrist not to brush the touchpad when I used the PageDown or PageUp keys. I really like the keyboard, but just short of one year (within the warranty thank goodness) several keys died. So I am waiting for them to send me a new one per their guarantee. Charles Anderson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:28:22 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: see references in Online Help Hi, I am currently working on my first Windows Help Index project. As I understand it, there is no way of putting proper SEE references in a help index because every index entry (or reference) has to be written in and associated with a specific topic. So every reference in the index has to lead somewhere, even if you would rather it didn't. I have seen a suggestion that because of this you should put the SEE reference at the most important topic (or section) about that subject. The trouble with this is that the user who does click on the reference will find one topic, and not know that others are available under another name. Another alternative is to write the SEE reference at every topic that it would apply to (but then you might as well have made double entries). A third alternative that was suggested to me by one of the authors is to create a dummy topic just for SEE references. I have been writing all of the references at that topic. If someone selects the reference (instead of reading it and following the instruction) they open a box which says "You have selected a term which is not used in this index etc etc". They are told how to return to the index and select the correct term. One problem I envisage with this approach is that the topic will fill up. I think i might need to create a number of topics and sort the references alphabetically. Has anyone tried anything similar, or can you envisage any problems? A final alternative is to list all the synonyms in a synonym table and have the system automatically generate double entries every time it builds the index. (This is proprietary software and this part would have to be written). I'd be grateful to hear from anyone who has had experience with any of these methods, and especially any feedback you have had from users. Thanks, Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:22:53 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: see references in Online Help Glenda-- This is where I do nearly all of my work, and I don't do any of that stuff. In hypertext indexes--and *especially* help--I don't use "see" and "see also" references. I duplicate subentries. Say the heading "sanitation engineer" has subentries "clothing," "equipment," and "training." In a printed document, I might create an entry like "trash collector. See sanitation engineer"--in help, I'd simply list "trash collector" with the same three subentries. It's simply an accommodation for the limitations of the medium. (And it's not like we're wasting paper to have the extra entries.) If it's really important to comment on the inappropriateness of the term "trash collector," I might just list "trash collector" (without the subentries) as a pointer to the place in the help file where I explain why and provide the preferred alternative, "sanitation engineer." Armed with the knowledge of the preferred term, the reader can look *it* up in the index. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:27:45 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: see references in Online Help David M. Brown wrote: > > Glenda-- > > This is where I do nearly all of my work, and I don't do any of that > stuff. In hypertext indexes--and *especially* help--I don't use "see" > and "see also" references. I duplicate subentries. ...and he didn't mean to send it to the entire list! <:( That's what comes of trying to respond to e-mail during the wee hours. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 04:45:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ken Reigner Subject: Reminder: WIW Home Office Technology Conference, Feb. 20, Washington, DC [Please forgive the cross-posts.] Writers To Learn How To Streamline Their Home-Based Offices at WIW's Feb. 20 Home Office Technology Conference WASHINGTON--Tips and techniques for modernizing writers', editors' and journalists' home offices will be plentiful during the Home Office Technology Conference scheduled for Saturday, Feb. 20. Sponsored by the non-profit Washington Independent Writers (WIW), the conference is designed for individuals who work from home-based offices. Sessions will focus on using technology to streamline home offices and improve efficiency. The meeting will run from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. at the University Club, 1135 16th St. N.W., Washington, D.C. Rob Pegoraro, editor of the Washington Post's Fast Forward section, will address how technology affects the media and the marketplace. Ken Norkin, free-lance copywriter and president of KN Creative, will speak about how writers can modernize their home offices. Melinda (Mindy) McAdams, American Press Institute Web strategist, will discuss how writers can connect to the world through the Internet. Sara Cormeny, independent Web site designer and founder of paperlantern.com, will advise writers on how to create World Wide Web pages. A question-and-answer session featuring free-lance writer and independent consultant Peter J. Ognibene, as well as all of the day's speakers, will close out the conference. Registration is $115 for WIW members and $140 for non-members. Writers may join WIW and attend the conference for $195. A $10 surcharge will apply to registrations at the door. A buffet lunch is included with registration. For additional information or to register, contact WIW at (202) 347-4973 or . Washington Independent Writers was founded as a non-profit organization in 1975 to provide writers, editors and journalists professional and social forums for the exchange of ideas and information. As the largest regional writers' organization in the United States, it provides a variety of services and resources to its 2,000 members and plays an active role in issues that affect the independent writing profession. Further information is available on the World Wide Web at or via e-mail at . The WIW office is located at 220 Woodward Building, 733 15th St. N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005. WIW also sponsors an Internet-based discussion and mailing list, WIW-L. To subscribe, send e-mail to , and in the body of the message, put the line "subscribe WIW-L your-first-name your- last-name" (without the quotation marks). ### -- Ken Reigner mailto:cbsmedia@earthlink.net Member, Board of Directors List Owner, WIW-L and WIW-JOBS Chairman, Technology Committee mailto:wiw-l-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Washington Independent Writers mailto:wiw-jobs-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:33:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty In-Reply-To: <199902190503.XAA19713@mixcom.mixcom.com> When I was called (in Wisconsin), I learned that self-employment did not exempt me. In any case, I didn't try to get out of it. I took my work and my laptop with me and got plenty of work done during the long, boring selection process. Their system was that if you're not exempt, you come back each day until you're chosen for some trial or other. Eventually, I was chosen and served duty on a 3-day civil trial. I had already let my editor know what was going on, and she was very understanding. Look on the bright side. Having to serve jury duty when deadlines loom is similar to being behind schedule due to illness, but if you serve jury duty, at least you don't feel sick. :-) BTW, I've been sick for 4 weeks (strep then respiratory flu)--a new personal record! >>There's no such thing as an "automatic excuse" from jury duty unless you are >>actually unfit to serve...ever. You have to be mentally unable to understand >>the proceedings, or physically incapable of attending, or over 75 (I think >>that's the age in CA). > In New York State, as I recall from notices I received when I lived there, there is one automatic exemption (i.e., printed on the form, with a box to check off): being a single parent/guardian of one or more school-age children. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:38:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Johnna VanHoose Dinse Subject: Re: Mouse Alternatives I bought (at CompUSA) a natural keyboard with a built-in touch pad and I love it. The keyboard is an extended one with direction keys as well as keypad, and the touch pad lies just below the arrow keys. There's not much movement between keyboard and touch pad. This keyboard is a no-brand that I paid $50 for, but it does the job. Johnna VanHoose Dinse Indexing, Editing, Proofreading Indianapolis johnnav@iquest.net Becky Hornyak wrote: >I wanted to update you on a post I made a couple of months ago. In response >to pain in my elbow which I attributed to using the mouse frequently and >intensely (I do embedded indexing and used it to navigate), I decided to try >something different. I purchased the Cirque Smart Cat touchpad. This is not >the version I inquired about, but a scaled-down version that was half the >price and still had all the features I wanted. The best suggestion I >received was that the pain could be from repeatedly making the movement from >keyboard to mouse. So, I keep the touchpad at the base of my keyboard and no >longer make that motion! I am pleased to report that it was easy to make the >adjustment to the touchpad, and I haven't been bothered by the elbow pain. >Thanks to all who responded. >Becky Hornyak, Indexer >bhornyak@iquest.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:52:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: see references in Online Help David Brown wrote: >Say the heading "sanitation engineer" has subentries "clothing," >"equipment," and "training." In a printed document, I might create an >entry like "trash collector. See sanitation engineer"--in help, I'd >simply list "trash collector" with the same three subentries. But See references are useful for vocabulary control, and in online help particularly you may want to wean users from old terminology, or simply make sure that they're aware of the terminology used by the product in question. Another alternative, since it sounds like you are able to add topics to the project, is to create your own mini-TOC topics that link to the topics in question. Using David's example, if there are three topics entitled "Clothing for sanitation engineers", "Equipment for sanitation engineers", and "Training for sanitation engineers", your TOC topic would be called "Sanitation Engineers", and would include nothing but links to the three detail topics. Your keyword, then, would be "trash collectors See sanitation engineers" and would point to the TOC topic with the links. This way the user registers the terminology that you have chosen for the index, and gets an overview of the information available in the index all at the same time. And if she follows one link and it doesn't answer her question, she simply uses the Back button to return to the TOC topic, and follows the next link. And maybe you'll get to do your next online help index in HTML Help, where the cross-refs can be "live" -- they actually jump to the target entry in the index! Much more intuitive for the user, and much nicer for us indexers, too! Caroline __________________________________________________________ | | Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence | | Indexing services for Books, Technical documents, | Software documentation, and Online help systems | | Tijeras, NM | 505-286-2738 | cparks@mindspring.com | | "Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim." |_________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:17:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: very low indexing charges This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE5BE8.AC7BFE20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you believe that I talked w/ a publisher today that is getting all = of his indexes done by an indexer who only charges $1.50 to $1.75 per = page? Not only that, but the pages are rather large w/ small type! Rates like that do make it awful hard for the rest of us. =20 kevin ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE5BE8.AC7BFE20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can you believe that I talked w/ a = publisher=20 today that is getting all of his indexes done by an indexer who only = charges=20 $1.50 to $1.75 per page?  Not only that, but the pages are rather = large w/=20 small type!
 
Rates like that do make it awful hard for the rest = of=20 us. 
 
kevin
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BE5BE8.AC7BFE20-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:23:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith McQuay Subject: Contacting publishers: phone/mail/email I'd like to hear your thoughts on publishers' preferred method of being initially contacted by a freelance indexer. THANKS Keith McQuay FOREWORD Indexing 613-634-2669 Foreword@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~Foreword ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:08:51 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: see references in Online Help In-Reply-To: <199902190231.rcq4rb.i2.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> I love Caroline's idea of linking to a specialized topic that you build into the project. If your help authors will allow that, that would be my first choice as well. WinHelp is so limited in many ways that I think users suffer no matter what we do. I put in See and See also references, using the trick of embedding them in an overview topic. Usually I feel that works okay, cause overview topics usually have See also references or "related topic" references in their text, which will lead the user on to the information. At least if they are well designed, they do. I would not bury all the see refs in the same blank topic to force the little dialog box. You have a limit of 1024 characters in a K footnote. Some folks believe you can have multiple K footnotes in a topic, but I have never found that to work. I also think the dialog box is really annoying. Users want to get somewhere, and they are impatient online. Don't make them repeat themselves if you can avoid it. Let them move forward, which is why I like Caroline's idea of links in that topic. You can also duplicate entries to your heart's content, but again, remember you only have 1024 characters - I run out of room when I duplicate, so I do use vocabulary control. With simple topics, it is not a problem, but some help systems have long complex topics, and I need every one of those characters.... Jan Wright At 06:28 PM 2/19/99 +1100, you wrote: >Hi, > >I am currently working on my first Windows Help Index project. > >As I understand it, there is no way of putting proper SEE references in a >help index because every index entry (or reference) has to be written in and >associated with a specific topic. So every reference in the index has to >lead somewhere, even if you would rather it didn't. > >I have seen a suggestion that because of this you should put the SEE >reference at the most important topic (or section) about that subject. The >trouble with this is that the user who does click on the reference will find >one topic, and not know that others are available under another name. >Another alternative is to write the SEE reference at every topic that it >would apply to (but then you might as well have made double entries). > >A third alternative that was suggested to me by one of the authors is to >create a dummy topic just for SEE references. I have been writing all of the >references at that topic. If someone selects the reference (instead of >reading it and following the instruction) they open a box which says "You >have selected a term which is not used in this index etc etc". They are told >how to return to the index and select the correct term. One problem I >envisage with this approach is that the topic will fill up. I think i might >need to create a number of topics and sort the references alphabetically. >Has anyone tried anything similar, or can you envisage any problems? > >A final alternative is to list all the synonyms in a synonym table and have >the system automatically generate double entries every time it builds the >index. (This is proprietary software and this part would have to be >written). > >I'd be grateful to hear from anyone who has had experience with any of these >methods, and especially any feedback you have had from users. > >Thanks, > >Glenda. > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:09:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Indexing Project Deadline & Jury Duty > There's no such thing as an "automatic excuse" from jury duty unless you are > actually unfit to serve...ever. You have to be mentally unable to understand > the proceedings, or physically incapable of attending, or over 75 (I think > that's the age in CA). I believe that physical inability to see or hear evidence (blindness or deafness) may also excuse one from jury duty in some jurisdictions. The other oddity I've noticed about jury duty is its randomness. My mother was called three times within a 7-year period, yet at age 36, I have never been called. (I did receive a notice last year that I was on the list and could be called for county court anytime between Mar. 01 and May 30, but no call or notice ever arrived.) Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: Contacting publishers: phone/mail/email Keith: I've found that when you are able to reach the right person, they are usually very pleased to speak with you. All of my marketing has been phone cold calling. With automated answering systems everywhere now, it is a little more difficult. Just wait for the operator and ask for production or editorial. Sometimes you get the right person right away, sometimes it takes a while. Once I reach the production or editorial area, I ask for the person who coordinates freelance indexing/copyediting activities and go from there. If/when you get to speak to the appropriate person, they are usually VERY enthusiastic to add someone new to their roster because if they use freelancers they inevitably hit snags when no one is free to take the work (usually tight schedules make this even worse). It would be wonderful to hear different approaches to this important aspect of freelancing. (BTW, Keith, your postings are being posted, but unless you instruct the server accordingly, you don't see your own - I've tried to find out how to get into the "preferences" on the server [the instructions disappeared with my hard drive disaster] but haven't been able to - can anyone help with this?) Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:22:58 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: see references in Online Help Caroline Parks wrote: > > See references are useful for vocabulary control Yep, and my response to Glenda addressed the issue of disparaged terms as a distinct type of synonym. Again: I *would not* duplicate subentries under the disparaged term. The index link for the disparaged term would point to the topic where I explain why the term is disparaged (such as "We don't call it that any more") and provide the new term. > in online help particularly you may want to wean users from old > terminology, or simply make sure that they're aware of the > terminology used by the product in question. I'm not sure why it's more important in help than elsewhere... --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:07:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Wilson Award and house style Suppose you are working on an index and you think to yourself, "This one is turning out rather nicely; maybe I'll submit it for the prestigious H.W. Wilson Award for Excellence in Indexing!" Then a thought strikes you: "This publisher has a really weird house style. If the committee looks at this sort of entry, they will utter a collective 'DUH! Why did she do THAT?'" Would you: 1. Call the editor and explain that, just for this index, you'd like to tweak their house style (and tell them why)? 2. Submit the index to the Wilson Award committee and hope they don't think the house style is as bad as you do? 3. Submit the index with an explanation to the Wilson Committee, "The reason I did such a dumb thing is because they MADE me do it!" (probably disallowed; the index ought to stand on its own, anyway)? 4. Forget submitting it and submit another one that doesn't present possible style problems? If you've ever submitted an index to the Wilson committee, how did you decide which one you wanted to submit? (Maybe this can't be answered onlist because we're supposed to be anonymous.) And, on that point, I'm not saying whether or not I DID or WILL submit one in any particular year! :) Paula C. Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:51:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Macrex Sewarc/Replace Question At 11:47 PM 2/17/1999 LCL, Michael Brackney wrote: >Snip snap snout >My tale is told out Thank you, Michael. I did the deed last night, and it worked. I have an inherent distrust of universal search and replace...I guess it comes from having done all this by hand for so long...but it seems to work just fine. The tip about search operators really helped. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:00:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Alex O. Trotter" Subject: index w/o page numbers: update Just a brief follow-up on the problem I had of being given an index without locators: It turned out not to be so impossible, mainly because the themes of the book (about emergency medical care in the outdoors, written by a doctor for lay readers) were organized very schematically, with nearly every topic given its own heading in the text. My method was to key in, in Cindex, the index terms the author provided, and then make extensive use of the "Edit" and "Find" commands as I went through the text. And once I located pages for some terms, many others were easily found by cross-referencing to them. The job was still plenty of work, though, believe me, and yes, I was able to charge a lot for it. Had this been a highly complex and conceptual book, like a scholarly work, such a task would probably have been, as some people on this list suggested, of maddening difficulty. AT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:07:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Contacting publishers: phone/mail/email More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV reference card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" command to LISTSERV@BINGVMB.BITNET (or LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU). The above came as part of a longer message when I first subscribed to this list. Remember NOT to send these commands to the usual posting address. We will all get to see them, and the LISTSERV manager software will ignore them. :-) Iris Ailin-Pyzik ibap@crystalsys.com Julie Sherman Grayson wrote: > > (BTW, Keith, your postings are being posted, but unless you instruct > the server accordingly, you don't see your own - I've tried to find > out how to get into the "preferences" on the server [the instructions > disappeared with my hard drive disaster] but haven't been able to - > can anyone help with this?) > > Julie Grayson > juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:19:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JJDalton Subject: tentative name selection Loci Indexing Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress anyone. Now if I could get a difinitive pronounciation for loci? TIA John 8^D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:29:09 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: fictitious name Hi all, Boy, is my face red! I meant to spell "fictitious" not "fictious." Just goes to show that one shouldn't answer email in the middle of the night! Best, Sylvia Coates ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:13:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Listserv commands Forgot to say - that the subject line does not matter, and the command must be in the BODY of the message. "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" wrote: > More information on LISTSERV commands can be found in the LISTSERV > reference > card, which you can retrieve by sending an "INFO REFCARD" > command to > LISTSERV@BINGVMB.BITNET (or LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU). > > The above came as part of a longer message when I first subscribed to this > list. > > Remember NOT to send these commands to the usual posting address. We will > all get to see them, and the LISTSERV manager software will ignore them. > :-) > > Iris Ailin-Pyzik > ibap@crystalsys.com > > Julie Sherman Grayson wrote: > > > > > (BTW, Keith, your postings are being posted, but unless you instruct > > the server accordingly, you don't see your own - I've tried to find > > out how to get into the "preferences" on the server [the instructions > > disappeared with my hard drive disaster] but haven't been able to - > > can anyone help with this?) > > > > Julie Grayson > > juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:08:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: online index: subheads vs redirection pages If I have a short (less than one scroll-bar), comprehensive summary/redirection page for a smallish topic, should I also index the "redirectee" pages individually as subheads under the topic's main index entry? This situation happens several places in the manual I'm currently working on. Let's take an example. The topic is "exiting" and that includes exiting the application (a debugger) using the Toolbar's Exit menu item, exiting individual windows using the individual windows' Exit menu items, and exiting one of those windows using a typed Exit command. All that is summarized in the one page on "Exiting". The appropriate menu items are mentioned on the pages for the Toolbar and each other individual window. The and Exit command also has its own page. The "Exiting" page has a link to the Toolbar page and the Exit command page. #1 I could just have one entry in the index, "exiting", that points to the "Exiting" summary/redirection page. That would get the reader to a description of "how to exit the debugger", "how to exit the command-line interface aka Shell window", "how to exit other individual windows", and a link to "syntax of the Exit command". The reader would then have to look-up the individual window names in the index to find actual screen shots of the File menu Exit item for each individual window (except the Shell window). #2 Or, I could have: exiting Breakpoint window the command-line interface the debugger Breakpoint window ... Exit command ... Shell window ... Toolbar ... #3 Or, I could have: exiting the command-line interface the debugger individual windows Now, besides this controversial "exiting" entry, I do also have: command-line interface command dictionary ... exiting ... Exit command Toolbar exiting the debugger ... I'm inclined to go with method #1 or #2 -- #3 seems bloated to me. Because I'm up against a deadline, my stragegy for now is to use #1 for this release and expand it to #2 at the next revision of this manual. In any case, I'd like to know what folx here on the list would do. BTW, since this is an online manual, space is not an issue. == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:06:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: tentative name selection In-Reply-To: <199902191315.rcraic.2di.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> At 10:19 AM 2/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >Loci Indexing > > Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A >form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress >anyone. > Perhaps to be confused with Loki, Norse god of mischief. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:20:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: n.p., n.d. anyone? Can anyone enlighten me as to the meaning of "n.d." and "n.p." as in Footnote: Typed document, n.d., housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... Footnote: Address delivered November 29, 1911, Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, New York (n.p.,n.d.), housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... Thanks, Martha BWI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:31:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Judy Weedman Subject: Re: n.p., n.d. anyone? In-Reply-To: <199902192028.MAA09583@wahoo.sjsu.edu> n.d. -- no date (usually means no copyright date) n.p. -- unpaged; doesn't have page numbers On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Back Words Indexing wrote: > Can anyone enlighten me as to the meaning of "n.d." and "n.p." as in > > Footnote: > Typed document, n.d., housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... > > Footnote: > Address delivered November 29, 1911, Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, > New York (n.p.,n.d.), housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... > > Thanks, > > Martha > BWI > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:27:29 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McKinley, Carol" Subject: Re: n.p., n.d. anyone? -----Original Message----- From: Back Words Indexing [mailto:index@TELEPORT.COM] Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:21 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: n.p., n.d. anyone? Can anyone enlighten me as to the meaning of "n.d." and "n.p." as in Footnote: Typed document, n.d., housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... Footnote: Address delivered November 29, 1911, Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, New York (n.p.,n.d.), housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... Thanks, Martha BWI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:35:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: tentative name selection At 03:06 PM 2/19/99 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:19 AM 2/19/99 -0800, you wrote: >>Loci Indexing >> >> Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A >>form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress >>anyone. >> > >Perhaps to be confused with Loki, Norse god of mischief. > >Dick > I think yer all loco ... MJB Warshington DC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:34:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: n.p., n.d. anyone? At 12:20 PM 2/19/99 -0800, Back Words Indexing wrote: >Can anyone enlighten me as to the meaning of "n.d." and "n.p." as in > > Footnote: > Typed document, n.d., housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... > > Footnote: > Address delivered November 29, 1911, Plymouth Church, Brooklyn, > New York (n.p.,n.d.), housed in the Reverdy C. Ransom Collection... > n.d. =3D no date (of publication) n.p. =3D no place (of publication) These are used when either the place or date of publication (or both) cannot easily be determined by eyeballing the material. Cynthia Bertelsen ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:40:36 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip Montgomery Subject: Re: tentative name selection low ki ---JJDalton wrote: > > Loci Indexing > > Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A > form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress > anyone. > > Now if I could get a difinitive pronounciation for loci? > > TIA John 8^D > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:46:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: n.p., n.d. anyone? At 12:31 PM 2/19/99 -0800, Judy Weedman wrote: >n.d. -- no date (usually means no copyright date) >n.p. -- unpaged; doesn't have page numbers No, n.p. means "no place (of publication)" Cynthia Bertelsen ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:57:21 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: tentative name selection > Now if I could get a difinitive pronounciation for loci? Low-key! (Do you really want to go there?) --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:21:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TShere7566@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Golden Gate workshop--March 20 ASI GOLDEN GATE CHAPTER 16th ANNUAL CONFERENCE The American Society of Indexers--Golden Gate Chapter invites you to attend its annual full-day program on March 20, 1999. This year, we are thrilled to have freelance indexer Do Mi Stauber coming from Oregon to give her workshop titled FACING THE TEXT: CONTENT ANALYSIS AND ENTRY SELECTION IN SOCIAL SCIENCES AND HUMANITIES INDEXING This is a superb opportunity for professional development: no matter how long or short a time you have been indexing, you will find this session educational and stimulating. This is a participatory workshop which focuses on the practical processes of indexing. We will survey the steps that indexers follow as we interpret texts and create index structures, using examples and hands-on exercises from a range of real texts and indexes. The workshop covers back-of-the book indexing of both scholarly books and textbooks in the social sciences and humanities, but will be of value for indexers working in other areas as well. It is not a basic introduction to indexing, but novices as well as experienced indexers will benefit. Among subjects we will discuss are: main topics, indexable topics, index structure, subheads, cross references, and wording. You will go home with a full set of handouts to file away for future reference. Do Mi Stauber has been a full-time back-of-the-book indexer for the past eleven years. She managed Twin Oaks Indexing Collective for two years, supervising and training a group of indexers. She indexes scholarly books, textbooks and government documents in all of the social sciences and humanities. She chaired the judging committee for the 1998 Wilson Award, and is the author of "Jewels in the Cavern: The Special Challenge of Scholarly Indexing." DATE: Saturday, March 20, 1999 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. LOCATION: Berkeley City Club, 2315 Durant Ave., Berkeley, CA (510) 848-7800 COST: $80 ASI members, $95 nonmembers before March 8. After March 8, add $10. This workshop has not been subsidized by ASI-National, and we are offering it at or below cost. Morning pasries, fruit, and coffee, a delicious luncheon, and afternoon snacks are included. (Please let us know if you are a vegetarian.) REGISTRATION DEADLINE: March 8, 1999 Space is limited, so please register early to be sure of a place. SCHEDULE: 8:30 - 9:00 Registration, coffee, fruit and pastries 9:00 - 12:15 Workshop (with a fifteen-minute break at a convenient point) 12:15 - 1:45 Lunch, short business meeting, networking time 1:45 - 5:00 Workshop (with another break, with coffee, beverages and snacks available) TO REGISTER: Print out the form below and send it in by March 8 with your check for $80 (ASI members) or $95 (nonmembers), payable to ASI-Golden Gate, to: Blythe Woolston (510) 864-8667 776 Taylor Apt. B picapica@pacbell.net Alameda, CA 94501 For registration after March 8, please contact Blythe to see if there is space; add $10 to the cost if you register late. Requests for refunds must be received in writing by March 8; refunds will be sent within two weeks following the conference day and will be subject to a $25.00 processing fee. If you need to stay overnight in Berkeley, the historic Berkeley City Club itself has bed-and-breakfast rooms available on the workshop site. Call them at (510) 848-7800 for information and reservations. Another possibility is the Hotel Durant, three blocks away at 2600 Durant Ave. Their telephone number is (510) 845-8981. DIRECTIONS: From I-80, take the Ashby Ave. exit and take Ashby east to Shattuck. Turn left on Shattuck, then right on Durant (about 12 blocks). Go 2 blocks to the City Club on your left. Parking is available in a garage just west of the Club and in a lot just east of it. From Hwy. 13 or 24 follow signs for Berkeley. Continue west on Hwy. 13 (which becomes Ashby Ave.) to Shattuck. Turn right on Shattuck, then right on Durant as above. *PLEASE NOTE*: If you would like to attend the lunch/networking time only from 12:15 - 1:45, you may send in the form below and pay $22 (ASI members) or $25 (nonmembers). REGISTRATION FORM Please register ____ persons to attend the ASI-Golden Gate full-day workshop on March 20, 1999 in Berkeley. I enclose my check for $80 for each ASI member ($95 for each nonmember), payable to ASI-Golden Gate. ___I wish to attend the luncheon only from 12:15 - 1:45 p.m. I enclose my check for $22 (ASI members) or $25 (nonmembers). Name(s) ___________________________________________________________________ Address ____________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________ Phone ___________________________ Email _____________________________ In order to help Do Mi Stauber focus her presentation to the audience, please answer the following questions: How long have you been indexing? ____________________________________ What types of materials do you index? ____________________________________________ What are your main areas/subjects of expertise? _____________________________________ Send this form to: Blythe Woolston, 776 Taylor Apt. B, Alameda, CA 94501 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:57:01 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: tentative name selection In-Reply-To: <199902191815.NAA27034@mail4.bellsouth.net> |Loci Indexing | | Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A |form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress |anyone. | | Now if I could get a difinitive pronounciation for loci? | |TIA John 8^D Umm... Classical, I believe, would be LOH-KI (where the I is pronounced EYE) Modern would be LOH-SI (also EYE) How about IN LOCO BIBLIOS ? If I ever have reason to change my business name, I have a couple of possibles in mind that I've never seen used -- and I even have logos for them. But I'd hate to have to re-educate my regular clients! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:32:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: see references in Online Help In-Reply-To: <199902191512.HAA01079@dns1.mcn.org> Jan wrote (choosing one line from many posts that could suffice here): >WinHelp is so limited in many ways that I think users suffer no matter what >we do. I think it's important for indexers to discuss the workarounds for the appalling lack of capacity these discussions (and the help indexes themselves) reveal about much embedded indexing software. However, I think it is also important for indexers to educate software producers about the indexing needs, so that this software can improve. Indexes that have no capacity for vocabulary control do not allow the user to learn how to use either the program (or text) or the index. The bottom-line argument that proper indexing costs almost nothing in comparison with user calls to tech-help seems to me to be the logical best starting place for this education. An example of the way that software can improve based on intelligent, educated feedback is that of desktop publishing software. When it first came out it seemed often that the designers had paid almost no heed to hundreds of years of publishing history that could have informed it. Concentrated user feedback has resulted in much better software (even though it is still sadly lacking in many ways compared to the mainframe systems I worked with). This is my soapbox and I'm sticking to it. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:36:51 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: see references in Online Help Victoria Baker wrote: > > I think it's important for indexers to discuss the workarounds for the > appalling lack of capacity these discussions (and the help indexes > themselves) reveal about much embedded indexing software. The discussion was about Windows help, which is not embedded indexing software. Windows help is a documentation delivery medium that happens to include a limited indexing capability. > it is also important for indexers to educate software producers about > the indexing needs, so that this software can improve. Windows help is no longer being improved--it has been superseded by HTML Help. Despite the fact that thousands of programs are still being created and delivered with Windows help, Microsoft isn't even fixing bugs in the compiler (Hcrtf.exe) and viewer (Winhlp32.exe). > Indexes that have no capacity for vocabulary control do not allow the > user to learn how to use either the program (or text) or the index. If you don't like the built-in index in Windows help, you can always hand-code a "back of the book"-style index as a separate topic and index *that* instead. You don't have to use the built-in index at all. (Lots of folks did this in 16-bit help, where the index feature was even worse; a lot are doing it in plain HTML, too, for web sites and other documents.) --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:15:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: tentative name selection In a message dated 99-02-19 13:15:23 EST, JJDalton@email.msn.com writes: > Loci Indexing > > Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A > form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress > anyone. > > Now if I could get a difinitive pronounciation for loci? > > TIA John 8^D I would caution you not to choose a name whose pronunciation is not immediately obvious. Remember, croissants did not become popular in the U.S. until someone came up with the pronunciation cru-sant. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:00:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Do Mi's "Jewels in the Cavern.." Is it possible to get a copy of Do Mi's "Jewels in the Cavern: The Special Challenges of Scholarly Indexing"? Rebecca Rofman She indexes scholarly books, > textbooks and government documents in all of the social sciences and > humanities. She chaired the judging committee for the 1998 Wilson Award, and > is the author of "Jewels in the Cavern: The Special Challenge of Scholarly > Indexing." > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:05:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Happy 99 virus I hesitate to pass on virus warnings due to the many hoax warnings. This one is apparently real. Just in case everybody hasn't already heard about it. This is the message the folks at OneList posted. Ann Truesdale > > Recently there have been several reports of a virus being passed through > lists in attachments. The virus, called Happy99, modifies infected > computers so that they spread the virus to other computers through email > attachments. > > For more information on this particular virus, and how to remove it, visit > the following web page: > > http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/happy99.worm.html > > This is a good time to remind people that, in general, they should not > open email attachments or run programs from people they do not know. That > is how this and other viruses are spread. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:56:44 +0000 Reply-To: djulia@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennise Julia Subject: Re: tentative name selection Greetings, My name is Dennise and I am new to the INDEX-L listserver. The previous question allows me to ask a trivia question for the Latin scholars out there who may want to flex their collective muscles. How many parts was Gaul divided into, and what is the original Latin quote? We have a debate going on here in the Library School--I say three, and another student is positive that Gaul was divided into four parts. I have combed my old Latin text, but cannot locate the original quote. I believe that "loci" is the plural form of the noun "locus," and "loco" is the verb, "to place" or "to put." You are right however, "loci," "locorum," both indicate passages in literary works. Dennise "Si veritatem quaeremus, scienitam inveniemus." ---If we seek the truth, we shall find knowledge. Dennise JJDalton wrote: > > Loci Indexing > > Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A > form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress > anyone. > > Now if I could get a difinitive pronounciation for loci? > > TIA John 8^D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:03:42 +0000 Reply-To: djulia@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennise Julia Subject: Re: tentative name selection John, My old Latin text states that a short "O' is pronounced as in "clover," and a long "i," which "loci" in indicated to have in my text, is pronounced like the "i" in "machine." Hope that helps! Dennise JJDalton wrote: > > Loci Indexing > > Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A > form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress > anyone. > > Now if I could get a difinitive pronounciation for loci? > > TIA John 8^D ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:11:47 +0000 Reply-To: djulia@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennise Julia Subject: Re: tentative name selection M. Jessie Barczak wrote: > > At 03:06 PM 2/19/99 -0500, you wrote: > >At 10:19 AM 2/19/99 -0800, you wrote: > >>Loci Indexing > >> > >> Loci is latin for 'passages in literary works' or 'single places'. A > >>form of loca, locu and loco but I didn't think Loco Indexing would impress > >>anyone. > >> > > > >Perhaps to be confused with Loki, Norse god of mischief. > > > >Dick > > > > I think yer all loco ... > > MJB > Warshington DC I think all this humor is hoki... Dennise ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 01:24:26 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: n.p., n.d. anyone? In a message dated 99-02-19 15:29:13 EST, you write: << the meaning of "n.d." and "n.p." >> n.d. = no date n.p. = no place, meaning the place of publication is unknown. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:30:37 -0800 Reply-To: nkoenig@sprynet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nicholas W. Koenig" Subject: Re: Veni Vidi Vici Gaul was divided into three parts, at least according to Caesar in the first sentence of his Commentaria De Bello Gallico: Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres..... These are the parts not under Roman rule. They would eventually be "liberated" by Caesar. Perhaps the other student was thinking of the Provincia Romana or Gallia Cisalpina, which were under Roman rule. Those interested in a Vercingetorix fan club please contact me offlist. Nick Koenig Dennise Julia wrote: > > Greetings, > > My name is Dennise and I am new to the INDEX-L listserver. > > The previous question allows me to ask a trivia question for the Latin > scholars out there who may want to flex their collective muscles. > > How many parts was Gaul divided into, and what is the original Latin > quote? > > We have a debate going on here in the Library School--I say three, > and another student is positive that Gaul was divided into four parts. I > have combed my old Latin text, but cannot locate the original quote. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:01:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: see references in Online Help OK, I'm dense about this stuff, having never done it, but... Would it be possible, at the index entry that would carry the See reference, to have something like trash collectors. Click here to see under sanitation engineers and have it switch to the proper index location? This would address the vocabulary control issues and still make it fairly painless for the user to move to the right location in the index. This of course is a software functionality issue, rather than solely an indexing one. Iris Ailin-Pyzik ibap@crystalsys.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 05:49:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Interesting quote on scholarly indexes On the issue of scholarly indexes, following is an interesting comment from the author's perspective, from "Whatever Happened to Bibliographies", by Robert Hauptman. Chronicle of Higher Education, Feb. 12, 1999, p. B10. He is focusing mostly on the lack of formal bibliographies in modern scholarly works, but also address the index as a disappearing phenomenon. "The index is another part of hte traditional scholarly book that is becoming scarcer. Although one of my early books didn't include an index, I now realize how important indexes are in helping the reader retrace his or her path through a book, or in locating a specific piece of information. Yet publishers are increasingly willing--if not eager--to eliminate indexes. Often the publisher asks the author to compile the index, which some authors then subcontract to professional indexers. In other cases, the publisher pays for the compilation, but deducts the cost from the author's royalties. Whatever the option offered, authors should do their utmost to include indexes in their scholarly works. We owe the decline of the index and the bibliography to economic pressures--and to scholars' failure to resist them. ... Publishers--especially university presses, which have small print runs and narrow profit margins--try to save money producing books. If no one complains when a scholarly book arrives without a bibliography or an index, why bother including the scholarly apparatus in forthcoming volumes? ... Whether scholars can stem the tide or not, the elimination of scholarly bibliographies is a bad idea, a disservice to both authors and readers." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 06:15:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Kevin Broccoli said: Can you believe that I talked w/ a publisher today that is getting all = of his indexes done by an indexer who only charges $1.50 to $1.75 per = page? Not only that, but the pages are rather large w/ small type! Rates like that do make it awful hard for the rest of us. =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------- I believe it! This may be the same New York publisher who disputed my bill for the agreed-upon-in-writing rate of $2.00/page (in 1992!) as too high by saying, "I can get all the out-of-work actors I want to do indexing for less than $10 an hour." My reply to him (as I insisted on the payment that I later received): "You get what you pay for." Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:42:41 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Kolavalli Subject: Re: very low indexing charges In-Reply-To: <199902201419.IAA07014@onyx.southwind.net> Carolyn Weaver wrote: > I believe it! This may be the same New York publisher who > disputed my bill > for the agreed-upon-in-writing rate of $2.00/page (in 1992!) as > too high by > saying, > > "I can get all the out-of-work actors I want to do indexing for less than > $10 an hour." My reply to him (as I insisted on the payment that I later > received): "You get what you pay for." I thought I would see about doing some volunteer indexing for the county historical society, but was told they'd already had everything indexed by prisoners at the local medium-security prison. Karen Kolavalli El Dorado, KS ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:11:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: very low indexing charges Could this be called having to compete with "slave labor"? Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? > > I thought I would see about doing some volunteer indexing for the county > historical society, but was told they'd already had everything indexed by > prisoners at the local medium-security prison. > > Karen Kolavalli > El Dorado, KS > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:43:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Do Mi's "Jewels in the Cavern.." << Is it possible to get a copy of Do Mi's "Jewels in the Cavern: The Special Challenges of Scholarly Indexing"? >> It was published in the March/April 1996 edition of KeyWords. I don't know if back issues are available. Victoria, do you know? If they aren't, email me and I'll think about sending copies to people who want them. Thanks for asking! I hope you enjoy the article. Do Mi DStaub11@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:19:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Do Mi's "Jewels in the Cavern.." In-Reply-To: <199902201644.IAA10472@dns1.mcn.org> At 11:43 AM 2/20/99 EST, you wrote: ><< Is it possible to get a copy of Do Mi's "Jewels in the Cavern: The > Special Challenges of Scholarly Indexing"? >> > >It was published in the March/April 1996 edition of KeyWords. I don't know if >back issues are available. Victoria, do you know? If they aren't, email me and >I'll think about sending copies to people who want them. Yes, as far as I know that issue is available. Persons interested in back issues should contact the ASI admin office: Bonnie Parks-Davies . Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:34:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: see references in Online Help In-Reply-To: <199902200802.rctck0.suc.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> >Would it be possible, at the index entry that would carry the See reference, to >have something like > >trash collectors. Click here to see under sanitation engineers > >and have it switch to the proper index location? WinHelp doesn't allow this - HTMLHelp does. As David pointed out, WinHelp's development is dead, and Microsoft will not develop it further. But there are also add-ons and enhancements third parties have developed. HTMLHelp developers did listen to indexers in the development of HTMLHelp - the man in charge of it for years, Ralph Walden, was very responsive to ideas, and responded to emails, but was not able to get everything implemented that indexers wanted. It was great of him to listen, though, and at one conference he mentioned that indexing in Help was extremely important! So HTMLHelp has better active See referencing, and the index stays up on the screen so you get back to it easily. A much better system, but still with its flaws. Jan Wright At 08:01 AM 2/20/99 -0500, you wrote: >OK, I'm dense about this stuff, having never done it, but... > >Would it be possible, at the index entry that would carry the See reference, to >have something like > >trash collectors. Click here to see under sanitation engineers > >and have it switch to the proper index location? This would address the >vocabulary control issues and still make it fairly painless for the user to move >to the right location in the index. This of course is a software functionality >issue, rather than solely an indexing one. > >Iris Ailin-Pyzik >ibap@crystalsys.com > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:29:38 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: Re: tentative name selection To quote Dennise Julia: >The previous question allows me to ask a trivia question for >the Latin scholars out there who may want to flex their >collective muscles. My Latin trivia question is what does - Ave Finis - mean? It is an inscription on a building dating from the year 1539 in the City of Granada Spain. I've tentatively translated it as "Hooray its over" but I'm no Latin scholar, I never studied the language and the Latin/English dictionary I bought isn't too helpful for this inscription. The inscription is surrounded by sculptured artifacts of war-- shields, spears, swords, harquebuses etc. I'm intending to use the inscription in a chapter of a book that I'm writing. Any suggestions are welcome. Lawrence H. Feldman Lawrenc846@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:50:41 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: cross-references (was "see references in Online Help") In an interesting exchange on the INDEX-L discussion list, Jan C. Wright added: > > WinHelp doesn't allow [cross-references within the index] - > HTMLHelp does. So does HTML Indexer! You can create cross-references ("See" and "See also" entries) that "jump" to other entries within the index. See the Tips and Techniques article at the URL below for details. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:54:17 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Miller Subject: Re: How do I unsubscribe? ...and I too, was rejected when I typed the exact words I was told to type to get this in digest form.....was there a computer problem in this INdex-L server? rm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:03:49 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: tentative name selection In-Reply-To: <199902201830.NAA22501@mail6.bellsouth.net> |My Latin trivia question is what does | - Ave Finis - |mean? | |It is an inscription on a building dating from the year 1539 in the City of |Granada Spain. I've tentatively translated it as "Hooray its over" but I'm no |Latin scholar, I never studied the language and the Latin/English dictionary I |bought isn't too helpful for this inscription. | |I'm intending to use the inscription in a chapter of a book that |I'm writing. | | Lawrence H. Feldman | Lawrenc846@aol.com This one might interest you, too: Explcit hoc totum Pro Christo da mihi potum! Which has been translated as: The job is done, I think For Christ's sake, give me a drink! (But I don't remember where I got it from...) Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ If a man has any connection with Texas, Harvard, or the U.S. Marine Corps, he'll let you know it in the first five minutes of conversation. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:41:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: tentative name selection In-Reply-To: <199902201830.NAA28579@shooter.bluemarble.net> The translation is correct, but "Ave" also means "Hail". as in "Ave Maria" (Hail Mary). Hail the End, perhaps of a war, perhaps just of a big project. Marvant On Sat, 20 Feb 1999 Lawrenc846@AOL.COM wrote: > To quote Dennise Julia: > > >The previous question allows me to ask a trivia question for >the Latin > scholars out there who may want to flex their >collective muscles. > > My Latin trivia question is what does > > - Ave Finis - > > mean? > > It is an inscription on a building dating from the year 1539 in the City of > Granada Spain. I've tentatively translated it as "Hooray its over" but I'm no > Latin scholar, I never studied the language and the Latin/English dictionary I > bought isn't too helpful for this inscription. > > The inscription is surrounded by sculptured artifacts of war-- shields, > spears, swords, harquebuses etc. > > I'm intending to use the inscription in a chapter of a book that I'm writing. > > Any suggestions are welcome. > > Lawrence H. Feldman > Lawrenc846@aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 21:59:47 +0000 Reply-To: djulia@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennise Julia Subject: Re: tentative name selection Lawrenc846@AOL.COM wrote: > > To quote Dennise Julia: > > >The previous question allows me to ask a trivia question for >the Latin > scholars out there who may want to flex their >collective muscles. > > My Latin trivia question is what does > > - Ave Finis - > > mean? > > It is an inscription on a building dating from the year 1539 in the City of > Granada Spain. I've tentatively translated it as "Hooray its over" but I'm no > Latin scholar, I never studied the language and the Latin/English dictionary I > bought isn't too helpful for this inscription. > > The inscription is surrounded by sculptured artifacts of war-- shields, > spears, swords, harquebuses etc. > > I'm intending to use the inscription in a chapter of a book that I'm writing. > > Any suggestions are welcome. > > Lawrence H. Feldman > Lawrenc846@aol.com Lawrence, Ave means the same as Hail--it's like a respectful greeting. Finis can mean end, limit, boundary, or purpose. If it were fines it would mean territory or boundaries. My guess (with the insignia you mention) is that it means something like Hail to the end! or hail to the purpose! It will be interesting to see how others interpret this--my Latin is a bit rusty! Best, Dennise ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:22:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Cindex for Windows Class Cindex for Windows Class To Be Given for First Time at EEI in Alexandria, VA On Saturday, March 27, 1999, Enid Zafran and Peter Peart, both of The Bureau of National Affairs' Indexing Department, will give a one-day session devoted to this popular indexing software package. Whether you already use Cindex or are just starting out, you will learn how to improve your accuracy, speed, and knowledge of the many features of the program. Enid and Peter in their jobs at BNA have extensive experience with Cindex and will share with you many of the "tricks" that they use when indexing and editing. The class is scheduled from 9 am to noon, with the instructors available for individual consultation following the session for those who wish to stay in the afternoon to ask questions or review. Class size is limited to 12 students. Each student will have a PC to use during the class. Cost: $300 (American Society of Indexers members: $250) Contact EEI at 703/683-7453 or 888-2LEARN2 to sign up. They will give you directions to their offices at that time. Enid also teaches the Beginning Indexing and Advanced Indexing classes at EEI. If you are interested in the schedule for either of those classes during 1999, please contact EEI. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:10:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: Keywords Thank you to all writers, contributors and editors for an excellent issue of Keywords. I always read it cover-to-cover, but found this one to be the most compelling yet ! Who needs mystery and suspense novels? Barbara Stroup********************** Barbara Stroup, Indexer 30 Spruceland Avenue, Springfield, MA 01108 413 785-1835 e-mail indexa2z@the-spa.com **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:13:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Subject: Re: see references in Online Help As Jan Wright said, scrolling See and See Also references are part of some add in tools for WinHelp, including our EHTD product (www.sageline.com/EHTD/EHTD.html). Seth Maislin and others at ASI are attempting to work with Microsoft and other vendors to see that the new generation of online access mechanisms, such as HTML Help and XML have true indexing functionality. Web indexing, in which the links are embedded by the author of the page, allows See and See Also scrolling using midpage A Name HTML references. We should all be exerting what pressure we can on software vendors to include better indexing features in their information products. ________________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Digest format The command should be set index-l digests (case should not matter but to clarify the L for yourself try SET INDEX-L DIGESTS ) and should be in the BODY of the message sent to LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu The subject line is ignored, and the message needs to be sent from the e-mail address under which you are subscribed. It is often not clear that the command needs to be in the BODY, not the subject line. If you did this correctly, there might have been a problem with the server, and I would try it again. Iris Ailin-Pyzik ibap@crystalsys.com Rebecca Miller wrote: > ...and I too, was rejected when I typed the exact words I was told to > type to get this in digest form.....was there a computer problem in this > INdex-L server? > rm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 12:08:39 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: HMCMURRA@IX.NETCOM.COM Subject: Fwd: Output of your job "HMCMURRA" ------Begin forward message------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu (bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu [128.226.1.34]) by ixmail8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id IAA02637; for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:23:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902211623.IAA02637@ixmail8.ix.netcom.com> Received: from BINGVMB by BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 4940; Sun, 21 Feb 99 11:21:22 ECT Received: from BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU by BINGVMB (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 4935; Sun, 21 Feb 99 11:21:22 ECT Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:21:22 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: Output of your job "HMCMURRA" To: HMCMURRA@IX.NETCOM.COM > set index-l digests You are not subscribed to the INDEX-L list. Summary of resource utilization ------------------------------- CPU time: 0.004 sec Device I/O: 0 Overhead CPU: 0.001 sec Paging I/O: 0 CPU model: 9021 DASD model: 3380 ------End forward message--------------------------- Hi, I get this message when I try to set digest - Heather ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 17:58:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Fwd: Output of your job "HMCMURRA" Heather - For some reason, the listserver lists you (and only you - no other list members) with a userid of HMCMURRA@@IX.NETCOM.COM I can only guess that the @@ is somehow goofing things up, and it says you are not a member, although you do get the list mailings. Something somewhere must ignore the 2 @s. I get the appropriate acknowledgement when I try to set digests. Iris HMCMURRA@ix.netcom.com wrote: > ------Begin forward message------------------------- > > Return-Path: > Received: from BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu (bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu > [128.226.1.34]) > by ixmail8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id > IAA02637; > for ; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 08:23:26 -0800 (PST) > Message-Id: <199902211623.IAA02637@ixmail8.ix.netcom.com> > Received: from BINGVMB by BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) > with BSMTP id 4940; Sun, 21 Feb 99 11:21:22 ECT > Received: from BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU by BINGVMB (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with > BSMTP id 4935; Sun, 21 Feb 99 11:21:22 ECT > Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 11:21:22 +0000 > From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) > > Subject: Output of your job "HMCMURRA" > To: HMCMURRA@IX.NETCOM.COM > > > set index-l digests > > You are not subscribed to the INDEX-L list. > > Summary of resource utilization > ------------------------------- > CPU time: 0.004 sec Device I/O: 0 > Overhead CPU: 0.001 sec Paging I/O: 0 > CPU model: 9021 DASD model: 3380 > > ------End forward message--------------------------- > Hi, I get this message when I try to set digest - > Heather ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:19:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Mazefsky Subject: ASI New York Chapter All-Day Conference - May 8 Hold this date! This year's Spring meeting will be an-all-day conference at the Williams Club in NYC on May 8.. Topics include: Medical Indexing; Periodical Indexing; Embedded Indexing. Information (and registration forms) will follow in about three weeks. If you're not an ASI member, or are a new member (we may not have received a label for you yet) and would like information, please contact Janet Mazefsky (jmazefsky@aol.com).. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:39:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Engleman Subject: Writing Home Index The following was extracted by a friend, and I forward it for your amusement, with the sincere hope that it doesn't start another discussion about humor in indexes. Roberta Engleman Hello, I've just finished a book with a regulation sober-looking index. It contains a few entries which let slip the humanity of the indexer and I thought they would give you a smile or two. The book is "Writing Home" by the English playwright Alan Bennett (Madness of King George, plus many more). Sorry the examples are so many; I got carried away. Adelphi Hotel, Liverpool: not all that it's cracked up to be Age of Chivalry Exhibition, Royal Academy: curious graffitti at Armstrong, Alun: suddden change of character of, on opening a Gideon's Bible Army Cadet Corps: persistence of puttees in Ashmolean Museum, Oxford: distasteful Leonardo in Balliol College, Oxford: ugliness of Beeching, Dr: as thin end of increasingly nasty wedge Codron, Michael: infant impresario ..; white suit of ..; replacement of actress's cardigan by College of Cardinals: cardboard urged on as material for papal crown Hailsham, Lord: shakes hands with a smoker ..; confronted by the spectre of redundancy ..; more humbug from Hampshire Police: still living in the fourteenth century Harlesden (television studio at): Gary Lineker's thighs admired at Harty, Myrtle: shame of, on Blackburn Market Harvard Club, New York: 'Crazy Eddies's' cheek by jowl with Hezeltine, Michael: held by hair and beaten unmercifully Hindle, Charlotte: AB startled by toplessness of Hussein, Saddam: recommended to University of Oxford as potential benefactor Murdoch, Rupert: Russell Harty attends parties of ..; Mrs Thatcher pulls crackers with ..; University of Oxford truckles to Newcastle: all vomit and love-bites Price, Vincent: gets dose of own medicine Taylor, Elizabeth: AB's knee sat on by Thorndike Theatre, Leatherhead: lewd ingenuity of schoolboys at Walesa, Lech: plucky little wife of Wykehamists: improbable claims for genitals of Cheers, Dennis ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:45:30 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: See references in Online Help and usability testing. In-Reply-To: Thanks to everyone for such useful responses on the online see references topic. It has struck me when I have been editing this index that I come to the job with very much a back-of-book indexing approach. There are some things that have been well-developed in book indexing that just don't happen in other media. However I have also discovered one advantage of online help indexing, and one thing they do well and that is a focus on not only doing what we think users might like, but also going out and asking them what they would like. It is rare for a book indexer to get feedback from users or potential users; for online indexers it seems like the obvious thing to do. Tomorrow I am going to attend some Online Help training courses like a fly on the wall and observe approaches to three set questions requiring the use of the index. Has anyone else had experience with usability testing? Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 23:41:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: See references in Online Help and usability testing. In-Reply-To: <199902212149.rd1he9.on6.37kbi15@mx7.mindspring.com> At 01:45 PM 2/22/99 +1100, you wrote: > >Has anyone else had experience with usability testing? I was a human factors engineer for IBM before I retired and started indexing. What would you like to know? Dick