From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 26-MAR-1998 05:26:03.26
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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 04:42:48 +0000
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:15:17 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: AllWrite N <AllWriteN@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves
This brings up another good point that should be made: If you rely on a
PC/Mac for your business, you should invest in a battery back-up to protect
you from data damage and loss in the event of power surges, brownouts and
blackouts. Make sure it is of the proper wattage, etc to handle your system
(eg: when I got my new Dell I had to get a larger BBU to handle all the extra
power and current draw it had over my old Compaq -- sort of like trying to
jumpstart your car with batteries from your flashlight...). When there is a
glitch in power, it 'absorbs the impact', so-to-speak by providing a smooth,
uninterrupted power source; and when the power fails completely, you have
approximately 5-10 minutes to safely close out whatever you are working on and
shut down your computer. It has saved my hide (and work!) on many occasions!
For those who wish to turn off their automatic saves, this will offer some
protection from the forces of nature.
NancyNoyes
All Write
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:50 +0000
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carme Masague <CMASAGUE@ADQ.BIB.UB.ES>
Organization: Universitat de Barcelona
Subject: Multilingual Thesauri
Hi INDEX-Lers,
Could someone tell me if there is a USMARC Format for Authority
Data for Multilingual Thesauri?
Thank you in advance,
Carmen Masague
cmasague@adq.bib.ub.es
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:18:12 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves
In-Reply-To: <199801221437.GAA04355@mail-gw.pacbell.net>
Nancy made an excellent point about the advantages of connecting an UPS
(uninterruptible power supply) to your system. Here's an experience I had
that illustrates the advantages of a UPS and Macrex's automatic saves.
Some of you may remember the huge power outage in the summer of '96 that
affected 7 Western states and parts of Canada and Mexico. When it occured,
I had Macrex running on both computers and a different index on each.
(Hubby and my daughter were working on one index while I worked on
another.) Well, when the power went down, the UPS (connected to the
Pentium) immediately alerted me by beeping like crazy and I was able to
save my work and exit everything gracefully before shutting down the
Pentium. OTOH, the 486 was not connected to an UPS and it immediately
crashed hard. However, Macrex had performed an automatic save since my
daughter had walked away from the computer. When we brought Macrex up after
power was restored and loaded the index, it was perfectly intact. The
result was that no data was lost on either system. (Yes, I know I need to
either get an UPS for the 486 or buy a more powerful UPS that I can connect
both systems to. ;-D)
Despite my good experience with reloading indexes that were automatically
saved by Macrex, Michael Brackney's poor experience has caused me to
reconsider relying on the automatic save alone. So, many thanks, Mike, for
the Alt-1 and the macro for saving to a .mbk file tips!!!!!
Lynn
At 09:15 AM 1/22/98 EST, Nancy wrote:
>This brings up another good point that should be made: If you rely on a
>PC/Mac for your business, you should invest in a battery back-up to protect
>you from data damage and loss in the event of power surges, brownouts and
>blackouts. Make sure it is of the proper wattage, etc to handle your system
>(eg: when I got my new Dell I had to get a larger BBU to handle all the
extra
>power and current draw it had over my old Compaq -- sort of like trying to
>jumpstart your car with batteries from your flashlight...). When there is a
>glitch in power, it 'absorbs the impact', so-to-speak by providing a smooth,
>uninterrupted power source; and when the power fails completely, you have
>approximately 5-10 minutes to safely close out whatever you are working on
and
>shut down your computer. It has saved my hide (and work!) on many occasions!
>For those who wish to turn off their automatic saves, this will offer some
>protection from the forces of nature.
>
>NancyNoyes
>All Write
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:12:48 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves
In-Reply-To: <199801211848.KAA07499@mail-gw2.pacbell.net>
At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote:
>The only times I do do a save is when I need to enable a changed keyword and
>before I want to test a macro the consequences of which I don't feel sure
>about. In the first case I have to use the "Write" procedure from the title
>screen, but in the second case I use the undocumented command Alt-1 because
>it saves on the spot without taking you away from your place in the index.
>(On quitting, of course, Macrex iself saves all the .ind files automatically
>so that everything's ready for the next work session.)
Michael,
I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen
to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that
contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering
them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I
create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc.
they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason
for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted
expansions of keywords.)
Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in
the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had
to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster.
Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them? TIA!!!
BTW, Gale Rhodes and I have had interesting conversations about keystrokes
being lost during automatic saves. (Actually, I used to complain to her
about it. ;-D) I told her that this isn't a problem in programs like MS
Word, which apparently reads the keyboard buffer immediately after an
automatic save and captures keystrokes made during that time. She told me
that Macrex *flushes* the keyboard buffer as a safety feature to prevent
data loss. I don't know why data can be lost if the buffer is read (maybe
Windows handles this differently than DOS does), but that's why Macrex does
this, in case anyone is wondering.
Lynn
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:43:00 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Msg Recipient <POSTMASTER@MG.SDSTATE.EDU>
Subject: Mail failure
TO: Lynn Moncrief DATE: 01-22-98
TIME: 10:43
SUBJECT: Mail failure
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[021] Message was not delivered due to missing routing file.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lynn Moncrief [SMTP:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
[SMTP:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]
Date: 1998-01-22 08:12
Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote:
>The only times I do do a save is when I need to enable a changed keyword and
>before I want to test a macro the consequences of which I don't feel sure
>about. In the first case I have to use the "Write" procedure from the title
>screen, but in the second case I use the undocumented command Alt-1 because
>it saves on the spot without taking you away from your place in the index.
>(On quitting, of course, Macrex iself saves all the .ind files automatically
>so that everything's ready for the next work session.)
Michael,
I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen
to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that
contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering
them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I
create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc.
they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason
for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted
expansions of keywords.)
Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in
the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had
to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster.
Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them? TIA!!!
BTW, Gale Rhodes and I have had interesting conversations about keystrokes
being lost during automatic saves. (Actually, I used to complain to her
about it. ;-D) I told her that this isn't a problem in programs like MS
Word, which apparently reads the keyboard buffer immediately after an
automatic save and captures keystrokes made during that time. She told me
that Macrex *flushes* the keyboard buffer as a safety feature to prevent
data loss. I don't know why data can be lost if the buffer is read (maybe
Windows handles this differently than DOS does), but that's why Macrex does
this, in case anyone is wondering.
Lynn
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>From: Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
>Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves
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>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
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>In-Reply-To: <199801211848.KAA07499@mail-gw2.pacbell.net>
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:17:53 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Trish Wittenstein <indexer@THEWORKS.COM>
Subject: Re: Macrex: automatic saves
Macrex users:
Michael Brackney wrote:
> there's no need to put up with their tiresome
>interruptions, especially since you can save your work in .mbk files like
>lightning by comparison. I use an Alt-F1 macro to accomplish this: left
>thumb and forefinger and it's done. Of course the procedure is not
>automatic, but since it's so fast there's every incentive to develop the
>habit -- and I probably do it at least once every 5-10 minutes.
I do this too, except that the macro also includes a command to save to a
floppy in drive A. I have three floppies that I rotate through drive A,
about every half hour or so. That way, I've only lost a half hour's worth
of work if something happens.
I learned this trick from Gale Rhodes at a Macrex training session in Denver
two years ago. I'd highly recommend this training to Macrex users for ideas
such as this that can save time, as well as heartache. I believe there'll
be one in Seattle this year.
Trish Wittenstein
Three Rivers, CA
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:15:24 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carolyn Weaver <cweaver@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Request for Bids for Thesaurus Construction (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:42:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "S. Dodson" <sdodson@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Request for Bids for Thesaurus Construction
Request for Bids for Thesaurus Construction
Background: University of Washington Medical Center's UWMC Health On-Line
is a long-range project by the Department of Patient and Family Education
Services with the goal of providing health care professionals with an
inventory and Web access to patient education materials available
throughout the Medical Center.
In support of this project, University of Washington Medical Center's
Patient and Family Education Services department is soliciting bids for
the building and maintenance of a patient education thesaurus to be used
in the abstracting and indexing of materials added to the database.
Thesaurus development is needed for approximately 30 broad subject
categories.
Thesaurus construction would entail the following: *Reviewing and
researching terms suggested by UWMC Health On-Line's project coordinator
for inclusion in the thesaurus as to appropriateness and suitability for
describing and indexing patient education documents and Web sites..
*Structuring terms within the existing hierarchically-arranged thesaurus.
*Providing enhancements to controlled vocabulary in the form of notes to
indexers (definitional, usage, etc), synonyms and alternate terms (variant
spelling, words with similar meanings, etc), and links to related terms
and concepts.
Required qualifications of thesaurus editor: *An MLS degree or
significant progress toward an MLS degree or demonstrated experience in
thesaurus development. *Experience using MS Word and MS Excel.
The desired completion date for the thesaurus is 6/30/98, extendable to
8/31/98.
Bids must be for $9,999 or less.
Bids may be faxed, mailed or emailed to the person and address below by
5:00pm, 2/4/98.
Questions may also be addressed to the person below.
Sherry Dodson
Clinical Medical Librarian
Health Sciences Libraries and Information Center, Box 357155
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195
Fax: (206) 543-8066
Phone: (206) 543-7493
Email: sdodson@u.washington.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:11:39 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Manke, Kristin L" <kristin.manke@PNL.GOV>
Subject: Indexing radioactive waste tanks
Hi,
I'm building an index (my first one) for a web site that discusses work
to remediate radioactive waste tanks at four national sites. The web
site contains several references to specific tanks at specific sites
(only abouut 10 of the 273 tanks are mentioned by name). I've tried
indexing the information under the appropriate site (see below). I also
tried indexing them under the tank identification (W-3, Tank at Oak
Ridge Reservation; 241-AX-104 at Hanford Site) and under Tank (Tank =
W-3,
Tank 241-AX-104, Tank 17). Any thoughts or suggestions would be GREATLY
appreciated. Please send them to me directly (kristin.manke@pnl.gov) or
to the list, whichever you prefer.
Thanks again,
Kristin
O
Oak Ridge Reservation
=A0 Tank W-3
=A0=A0 debris removal
=A0=A0 wall coring
=A0 Tank W-4
=A0=A0 waste retrieval
completed
equipment setup
=A0=A0=A0Tank W-9
=A0=A0 waste addition
=20
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:33:07 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Indexlady <Indexlady@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: ZyImage Indexing Software
Hi!
I have a colleague who uses ZyImage (sp?) indexing software to build indexes.
What type of indexing is this software best used for?
Thanks!
Dawn
indexlady@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:29:34 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: propagating changes in Cindex (was: editing)
In-Reply-To: <199801220510.XAA06643@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>If this automatic propagation thing could help me it will save a
>ton of time. Any tips?
>
Kevin, I have Cindex for Mac, so I don't if this applies, but...
One thing I've noticed about propagating changes is that you have to change
just the one line (e.g., the main heading. If you make a change to the main
heading and then a change to a subentry all in the same move, the change to
the main heading won't propogate. So what I do is change the main heading,
enter it (or, in Mac version, move to the next sub and back again, which
seems to register the propagation), and then go back and tinker with subs
as needed.
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:18 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "David K. Ream" <DaveReam@LEVTECHINC.COM>
Subject: Re: ZyImage Indexing Software
Dawn,
> I have a colleague who uses ZyImage (sp?) indexing software to
build indexes.
> What type of indexing is this software best used for?
>
This software scans document files and builds an "index", really a
concordance, of the words in the files for doing search & retrieval
using boolean operations.
It is not an index in the sense of a browsable, botb index.
I haven't looked at the product lately so I can't speak to all its
current features or usages.
Dave Ream
Leverage Technologies, Inc.
Cleveland, OH
440-838-1203
E-mail: DaveReam@LevTechInc.com
Web: http://www.LevTechInc.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:57:27 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: DStaub11 <DStaub11@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Urgent terminology queston
Help, somebody who knows about demographics! Is there a term that includes
both birthrates and fertility rates? (These two are being thrown back and
forth in the same discussion.) The index is due tomorrow, so if you know, hope
to hear from you soon!
Do Mi
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:34:49 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject: Macrex: keywords
At 08:12 AM 1/22/98 -0800, Lynn wrote:
>At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote:
>
>>The only times I do do a save is when I need to enable a changed keyword and
>>before I want to test a macro the consequences of which I don't feel sure
>>about. In the first case I have to use the "Write" procedure from the title
>>screen, but in the second case I use the undocumented command Alt-1 because
>>it saves on the spot without taking you away from your place in the index.
>>(On quitting, of course, Macrex iself saves all the .ind files automatically
>>so that everything's ready for the next work session.)
>
>Michael,
>
>I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen
>to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that
>contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering
>them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I
>create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc.
>they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason
>for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted
>expansions of keywords.)
Aiiiish!!!! indeed, Lynn. I too create mnemonic keywords, and keep many in
standard lists, but I encounter this problem very rarely so when it actually
has come up I've found it rather amusing. Wish I could think of a funny
example.
>Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in
>the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had
>to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster.
>Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them? TIA!!!
The manual says that changed keywords have to be enabled by resorting the
index, and that this can be done simply, if you have automatic sort turned
on, by moving to the Sort, Merge, or Print module and then back to the Main
Menu. Some time ago it occurred to me that a save occurs in each case and I
wondered whether that's what's really responsible for enabling changed
keywords -- especially since I couldn't imagine what resorting could have to
do with it -- so I tried doing a Write only, and bingo!, it worked. I just
now tried doing this with automatic sort off, and it works too.
I've never found any need to exit Macrex to enable changed keywords. That
is necessary only to increase the number of keywords available.
Yes, Alt-1 is a real find. I stumbled into it one day when I hit Alt-1
instead of Alt-F1 when trying to run my save macro.
Here's another undocumented command I found: Ctrl-PgUp as a way of
reinitiating Group mode from the top of the index (Enter regroups from the
top line of the current group -- which is helpful at times). In the lastest
version, of course, Ctrl--Up Arrow does the same thing.
Anybody else found any others?
Michael
Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA 95945
530-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:34:54 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject: Re: Editing
At 12:20 AM 1/21/98 LCL, Victoria wrote:
>Janet wrote:
>>Do many of you (any of you) check your main entry/ same as subentry "pairs"
>>this way? I always do.
>
>I found that too many times I forgot to add page numbers to all the
>locations of an entry, so I only input page numbers at one place (perhaps
>main entry), while inserting, instead, a searchable string ("{$$$}") at
>other instances (perhaps a subentry somewhere). When I get to the editing
>stage, one of my tasks is to use Macrex's Group Mode to collect all of the
>entries containing that searchable string. I use "print screen" to print
>them out, then with list in hand I find each instance and either write the
>page numbers on my printout or dupe the entry onscreen and do it that way
>(depending on how many and how complex the locators are). I then enter the
>page numbers in the file, crossing each off on my printout, and end with
>another Group Mode on that string to make sure I got them all.
>
>The way I do this is so mechanical that I spend far less time than I did
>when I went through comparing locator strings. As someone mentioned, the
>discipline of only looking at the index one way as I go through helps me
>reveal mistakes and gives me inspirations. Plus, with the printout in
>front of me, if I go off on a tangent, rewriting or inserting a
>cross-reference thread, I always come back to where I left off, which was
>not always true when I was doing it my old way.
>
>This is one of the ways I've found for myself to speed up my editing time
>and increase accuracy. Gale Rhoades helped me to develop it, btw.
>
>I also would like to hear how others compare their entries, as I'm always
>seeking to improve my process.
This is a very interesting discussion for me too: I find catching
unduplicated page numbers to be quite a challenge, in terms of striving for
both excellence and economy.
Janet, I'm not sure what you mean by "this way" when you write about
checking pairs of entries, but I suppose you're referring to using Group
mode. Is this correct? If so, I'm wondering whether you ever do this or
think you could do this carefully enough in the process of creating an index
so as not to have to do it at all during final editing.
Victoria, your method sounds like a neat innovation.
When I was studying with my teacher I suggested something similar: leaving
multiple posting entirely to the editing stage, but he countered that it's
important to do it while creating entries because it's right while we're
creating particular entries that we can best decide what multiple posts are
needed, and that in so doing we can see the emerging structure of our
indexes. So I've been doing all my multiple posting as I go, and automating
the process sometimes by grouping my posts before adding a new locator, and
then, if there are three or more posts, creating an ad hoc macro as I add a
locator to the first post, ending the macro with "Enter" and "Line Down",
and then reusing the macro to add the locator to each of the other posts.
If I understand you correctly you're saying you create your multiple posts
at the first opportunity, but add dummy page refs to all of them to remind
yourself in the editing stage to add whatever number of locators you end up
adding to your first, or primary, post. If this is correct, I wonder
whether it would be to combine my suggestion with yours by creating all
needed multiple posts as we go and adding a dummy page ref (like my old "{~
DP~}" for "double post") to only the primary one, and then in the editing
stage searching out the dummy refs, grouping on the headings they occur in,
and then maybe re-multiple posting as a way of propagating the added page
numbers, or just copying locator strings between posts.
Another question: I missed the context of your statement, "As someone
mentioned, the
discipline of only looking at the index one way as I go through helps me
reveal mistakes and gives me inspirations." Will you please explain this?
Thanks.
Regards,
Michael
Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA 95945
530-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:46:18 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Nancy A. Guenther" <nanguent@CHESCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords
>> Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason
>>for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted
>>expansions of keywords.)
I've used Macrex for years for indexing but since I moved to Sky Index last
fall I haven't been following this thread in too much detail.
If I understand the above comment it is referring to times when keywords
need to remain as typed & not expand. One solution I would offer is create
your mneumonic but precede it with ; (semicolon) as in ;asi. Since the key
is right under your fingers, it is very efficient. Since normal use almost
always has a space following you are not likely to have unintended expansion.
Nancy Guenther
nanguent@chesco.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:14:27 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: indexer@INETCOM.NET
Subject: Re: Propagating changes
Dick Evans wrote:
>At 09:07 AM 1/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> I understand Cindex 6 has capabilities to automatically propagate
>>changes in main headings. I got it last year but the first 2-3 times I used
>>it I was pretty happy until time came to Print/File for Word. When I went
>>into Word the file was nowhere near what I wanted. It seems like you have
>>to do like 25 different "SET" commands before you can get things straight.
>
>Can you expand a bit? This scenario doesn't compute for me.
>
Thanks Dick and Carol for your help
When I looked at the manual I realized my actual goal could not be
accomplished by "propagation".
Here's what I really want to do. I have a vast number of terms of
the type
Lead
Lead [122-22-34]
Lead [122-22-3]
To be precise there will be about 100,000! The numbers are CAS registry
numbers. What I want to do is quickly combine them under one CAS registry
number. In this example [122-22-3] would be a typo and would need to be
combined with the [122-22-3]. To give you some feel there would probably be
on the order of 30 terms under just Lead, another 30 under Lead [122-22-34],
and an assorted 2-3 incorrectly written registry numbers as in the example
above. Ideally I would like to be able to select the entire group of terms
and instantly make them all Lead [122-22-34]. Otherwise the only option I
know is my "alt 1" procedure described in my recent editing post. I realize
now that propagation of main entry editing changes would only work for a
group of terms that all originally had the same exact main heading. These
would be different terms and this wouldn't apply.
Anyway what I'd really like is some sort of intelligent software
that would go through, flag these up on the screen, using an algorithm that
would ignore the numbers and group these together, ask me to identify the
one to key on, then make them all match this one. Is there such a product?
Kevin Mulrooney
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dyslexics of the world untie!
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it.
First State Indexing (302) 738-2558
276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net
Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:19:36 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject: Re: Urgent terminology queston
At 04:57 PM 1/22/98 EST, DStaub11 wrote:
>Help, somebody who knows about demographics! Is there a term that includes
>both birthrates and fertility rates? (These two are being thrown back and
>forth in the same discussion.) The index is due tomorrow, so if you know, hope
>to hear from you soon!
>
>Do Mi
>
>
Hi Do Mi,
Birth rate is the number of live births per 1,000 total population (often
called crude birth rate).
Fertility rate is the average number of children a woman is expected to have
during her lifetime. Also given as live births per 1000 women aged 15-44.
Also called "true" birth rate.
So, technically speaking, these rates are really not exactly the same.
Other terms might be natality, fecundity (some reservations on that one),
reproductive rate...
Hope this helps.
*****************************************
Cynthia D. Bertelsen
Freelance Indexer
Bertelsen Indexing Services
cbertel@usit.net
Editor-in-Chief, KEY WORDS, American Society of Indexers
Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html
*****************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:51:55 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Propagating changes
At 07:14 PM 1/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>To be precise there will be about 100,000! The numbers are CAS registry
>numbers. What I want to do is quickly combine them under one CAS registry
>number. In this example [122-22-3] would be a typo and would need to be
>combined with the [122-22-3]. To give you some feel there would probably be
>on the order of 30 terms under just Lead, another 30 under Lead [122-22-34],
>and an assorted 2-3 incorrectly written registry numbers as in the example
>above. Ideally I would like to be able to select the entire group of terms
>and instantly make them all Lead [122-22-34].
Why not a SUBSTITUTE with a pattern? I realize it's not really automated,
but for the example you have given you could:
1. Create a group by finding every primary that begins with Lead:
FI/FIE=1/PAT ^Lead
2. Change every primary in that group to the same thing:
2.a Enter SUB/FIE=1/PAT ^Lead?*
2.b When Cindex asks for the replacement string, enter: Lead[122-22-34]
Repeat as required for other strings.
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:24:37 LCL
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Victoria Baker <vbaker@PACIFIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Editing
In-Reply-To: <199801222242.OAA01739@pacific.net>
Michael wrote:
>If I understand you correctly you're saying you create your multiple posts
>at the first opportunity, but add dummy page refs to all of them to remind
>yourself in the editing stage to add whatever number of locators you end up
>adding to your first, or primary, post. If this is correct, I wonder
>whether it would be to combine my suggestion with yours by creating all
>needed multiple posts as we go and adding a dummy page ref (like my old "{~
>DP~}" for "double post") to only the primary one, and then in the editing
>stage searching out the dummy refs, grouping on the headings they occur in,
>and then maybe re-multiple posting as a way of propagating the added page
>numbers, or just copying locator strings between posts.
What I like about making an initial list of all the entries that have the
dummy string (I do use the same string throughout), is that it gives me a
touchstone for moving through the index. As you suggest, it is certainly
possible to use Group Mode to collect the set of headings that will have an
identical locator string, and to work from there duplicating the string. I
would still make my list so that I would know which headings I needed to
Group and work on, so that I could do all of the Group work without
interruption.
>Another question: I missed the context of your statement, "As someone
>mentioned, the
>discipline of only looking at the index one way as I go through helps me
>reveal mistakes and gives me inspirations." Will you please explain this?
I can't remember who first mentioned the idea you're quoting above, but my
meaning is that, by creating a disciplined way of moving through the index,
in which I have but one actual goal, that of seeking out and duplicating my
multiple-post locator strings, I see snapshots of the index from a
different perspective. This focused perspective means that through my
peripheral vision, so to speak, I see errors and get ideas about writing.
I think the phenomenon is about keeping the sequential brain occupied and
allowing the simultaneous brain to operate (simultaneous brain being the
Gestalt or intuitive brain).
By looking at the subheads in their natural contexts, yet with my linear
brain occupied, I see useful things about context (and spelling errors
too). The possible down side to your suggestion of doing the
seeking/duping from Group Mode is that I would then no longer be looking at
the instances of subheadings in their natural contexts in the index, but
would be looking at them in isolation. Nonetheless, I will try it.
Perhaps the person making the original observation will explain her meaning
as well.
Best,
Victoria
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:02:59 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: DStaub11 <DStaub11@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Editing
I check page numbers by (unconsciously) looking at the screen after typing
each one.
I do a lot of editing as I index. In Macrex, if I think I have a similar entry
already, I go to it by typing the first couple of letters. Then I can either
add a page reference or, if I'm adding a new subentry to an existing main
entry, I can yank the main entry (one keystroke) and type in the subentry. If
I can't remember where I put a subentry, I do group mode on the word (or part
of it) and find all the places it's already in the index.
Janet wrote:
<< Do many of you (any of you) check your main entry/ same as subentry "pairs"
this way? I always do. Plus I"m always looking at main entries to see what
could be/should be a subentry and didn't get to be one. I'm basically
checking for double postings this way. I usually add some entries this way.
Maybe I didn't think that a topic would merit being a subentry, but when I
see
that there are a few page locators after it, there is sufficient body of
information to double post that way. >>
Yes, if a main entry/subentry pair needs to be flipped, I do that with ctrl-Z
right after I type it. At the end I flip them all again to make sure the page
references match. When I do this I add "fr" at the end of the entry before I
flip it, so that it doesn't automatically merge with the flipped version; I
can compare the two versions and make adjustments to both if necessary before
flipping back again.
Like Janet, I also think as I make each entry where else that topic might
need to go, and whether I should make see references from any alternate access
points. I change entries and add cross references throughout the indexing
process, so that except for very complex books (like the one I'm working on
now!) I don't have a whole lot to do at the end.
In complex books I end up doing more complicated editing tasks. For instance,
in the current scholarly book about Ceausescu's reproductive policies, I had a
note telling me to decide if the author's term "Political demography policies"
could be broad enough to include all of the state intervention in reproduction
or was more specific; another one telling me to decide on the relationship
between general state intervention in private lives and public/private
boundary fluidity (I decided that it was the same thing, reworded the state
intervention heading to "state intervention in private sphere," and combined
it with the private/public heading, amalgamating subentries in the process.
I do as much as possible in Macrex before I export to Wordperfect. I don't
spell check. My indexes often have a lot of personal names; I'm a good speller
and misspellings jump out at me when I do my detailed scan of each line.
And, finally, I edit exclusively on the screen. I find that with Macrex's
ability to jump me around, follow me to the site of a new heading, and group
headings with the same words in them, I can get a good picture of the whole
index. Printing it out would just take too long, and when I've tried it it
doesn't seem to help me all that much.
BTW, thanks for demography wording help!
Do Mi
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:39:45 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sanindex <Sanindex@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter
For all members of the Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter:
The second indexer chat is scheduled for January 31, 1998 at the Superrosa
Restaurant from 11:30 to 1:30. While the restaurant does not require
reservations, they do like to know the count so that they can set up the
proper amount of space. The cost is $10 at the door and whatever is ordered
from the menu. Contact Sandi Schroeder at 847-303-0989 or sanindex@aol.com.
Our web site is up. The address is http://www.xsite.net/~cglc\. Please make a
note of it and watch for information on future meetings and any possible job
listings.
Save March 28 for our electronic workshop. It will be a full day featuring all
the latest in technology on electronics in indexing.
Sandi Schroeder
Chmn, Chicago Great Lakes Chapter
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:37:22 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: JPerlman <JPerlman@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Arizona Chapter ASI meeting & workshop
Hello all!
ASI/AZ MEETING ON SATURDAY, 1/14
FULL DAY WORKSHOP COMING UP ON MARCH 14TH -- WATCH FOR DETAILS!
Just a reminder that the Arizona Chapter of ASI is holding a meeting this
Saturday, January 14th, from 11 AM to 2 PM, at the Casa Grande Public Library
on East 6th Street. The speaker is Phillip Fox, CPA, a Phoenix-based self-
employed accountant. His program, the Financial End of Running Your Own
Business, will discuss the basics of record-keeping and tax obligations for
the freelancer, we will have Q&A afterwards.
The program is at no cost to attendees. Nonmembers are welcome. Bring your
own lunch if you like. Dessert will be provided.
For further info, contact Janet Perlman (jperlman@aol.com) or Nan Badgett
(nbadgett@compuserve.com).
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:32:19 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: SCTopping <SCTopping@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter
Dear Sandi:
If I haven't told you before, please save me a place at the indexer chat.
Thanks
Sandy
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:23:47 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: DBRENNER <DBRENNER@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Pagination
Hi, I'm indexing a book with continuous text occasionally interrupted by
paginated one- or two-page illustrations that sometimes do not relate
immediately to the pages they intersect.
For example, there may be a discussion of John Brown that starts on page 17
and continues uninterrupted on page 19, but page 18 is an illustration showing
the flag of West Virginia with an indexable caption describing its origin.
Would you reference:
Brown, John, 17, 19
or
Brown, John, 17-19?
Thanks
Diane Brenner
P.O. Box 206
Worthington, MA 01098
413-238-5593
Diane
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:38:21 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: KArrigoni2 <KArrigoni2@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: office equipment
Hi all,
I used the fax software that came with my modem for a long time, but then
there came a time when I decided I really needed to break down and get a
stand-alone fax machine. I bought a Panasonic fax machine for around
$400, and it's one of the best investments I've ever made. Some of the
things I use it for are:
--Receiving the pages of manuals to index (the smaller manuals, that is)
--Receiving (and returning) small editing jobs
--Receiving client information (word lists, style sheets, and so on)
--Receiving contracts and sending them back (SIGNED)
--Sending resumes and samples
--Making copies (I love this feature--especially when I need to make
copies of just 1 or 2 pages)
Another great thing is that my computer and printer don't have to be tied
up while I'm receiving or sending faxes, and I'm free to work on my
projects. It's also nice to be able to receive faxes at all times--even
when my computer isn't turned on.
Karin
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:09:40 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sanindex <Sanindex@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter
You did and I have. Sandi
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:50:05 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Pagination
In-Reply-To: <199801231633.IAA20989@mail-gw3.pacbell.net>
At 11:23 AM 1/23/98 EST, Diane wrote:
>Hi, I'm indexing a book with continuous text occasionally interrupted by
>paginated one- or two-page illustrations that sometimes do not relate
>immediately to the pages they intersect.
>
>For example, there may be a discussion of John Brown that starts on page 17
>and continues uninterrupted on page 19, but page 18 is an illustration
showing
>the flag of West Virginia with an indexable caption describing its origin.
>Would you reference:
>
>Brown, John, 17, 19
>or
>Brown, John, 17-19?
Diane,
Oh don't you just hate it when that happens? ;-D I'd go with your second
option. IMHO, a page range indicates that the same discussion ends on page
19 (even though illustrations intervene). OTOH, separating pages 17 and 19
with a comma suggests that there are two separate discussions, one on page
17 and another on page 19. Either way, readers will probably find their way
to the end of the discussion on page 19, especially if page 17 ends in the
middle of a sentence. But a page range, IMHO, more accurately depicts
what's going on and may indeed be helpful if the discussion seems to end on
page 17 (e.g. a paragraph obviously ends).
Lynn
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:57:00 +0000
Reply-To: hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Drusilla Calvert <hcalvert@MACREX.CIX.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Macrex :automatic saves + keywords + another tip
A few clarifications about the Macrex discussion on automatic saves and
keywords from the programmer (Hilary):
1. <ALT>1 does save, but it only updates the .IND files. This will
protect against, for example, power failure, but not against a macro doing
something you didn't expect. ALT-1 is no more than a way of "forcing" an
automatic save. I originally put it in the program to test the software
without having to wait! The most secure backup is to use the (B) backup
file option from the main menu. A macro to do this (such as the ALT F1
suggested by Michael Brackney) can, as he said, make it very quick
and easy.
It's possible to interrupt the automatic save by pressing F1. In order to
do this MACREX keeps looking for keystrokes to check whether one of these
is F1 and any other keystroke gets discarded. I hadn't realised that this
would cause a problem, but it can be adjusted in the next version.
2. MACREX scans for and loads keywords (i) on startup (ii) when you quit
the inspect and edit screen (iii) when you load a backup file. It
shouldn't be necessary to restart the program.
3. And another tip (from me): If you press 1, 2 or 3 from the Print menu
you'll be taken directly to Change and Check Layout menu 1, 2 or 3.
Pressing 4 will take you directly to the Volume number/page number menu.
Happy indexing!
Drusilla
D & H Calvert
MACREX Indexing Services
hcalvert@macrex.cix.co.uk
http://www.macrex.cix.co.uk/
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:10:07 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Steven Sawula <imukie2@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter
Hi Sandi,
I notified Susan about a week ago that I plan/hope to attend. It looks
like a 95% probability (barring any last minute problems).
Steve Sawula
Sawula Indexing
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:39:45 EST Sanindex <Sanindex@AOL.COM> writes:
>For all members of the Chicago/Great Lakes Chapter:
>
>The second indexer chat is scheduled for January 31, 1998 at the
>Superrosa
>Restaurant from 11:30 to 1:30. While the restaurant does not require
>reservations, they do like to know the count so that they can set up
>the
>proper amount of space. The cost is $10 at the door and whatever is
>ordered
>from the menu. Contact Sandi Schroeder at 847-303-0989 or
>sanindex@aol.com.
>
>Our web site is up. The address is http://www.xsite.net/~cglc\. Please
>make a
>note of it and watch for information on future meetings and any
>possible job
>listings.
>
>Save March 28 for our electronic workshop. It will be a full day
>featuring all
>the latest in technology on electronics in indexing.
>
>Sandi Schroeder
>Chmn, Chicago Great Lakes Chapter
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:14:03 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: JPerlman <JPerlman@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Arizona Indexing Workshop
AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS, ARIZONA CHAPTER
SECOND ANNUAL PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT WORKSHOP
SATURDAY, MARCH 14, 1998
AT THE DOUBLETREE GUEST SUITES
320 NORTH 44TH STREET (NORTHWEST CORNER OF VAN BUREN)
PHOENIX
COST: To be determined -- info to come
TOPIC: PAGELESS INDEXING
SPEAKER: SETH A. MAISLIN
As publishing technologies and information sciences advance, the need for
indexers is not only expanding, but it is also getting wider attention. Seth
Maislin will talk about how classical indexing theory applies (or doesn't
apply) to electronic media, covering such topics as search engines, hyperlinks
as page numbers, index layout in HTML, embedded indexing, and online help. He
will discuss the changing business aspects of indexing and give his
predictions on the future of indexing.
SETH MAISLIN is an in-house indexer for O'Reilly & Associates, a Boston
publisher of computer-related books. He is also sole proprietor of Focus
Publishing Services. Seth is an experienced speaker, and has presented
workshops at the Massachusetts Chapter 1996 and 1997 annual conferences; he
also presents seminars to private industry documentation teams and authors on
indexing theory and technique. Seth is co-webmaster for the ASI web site.
Seth's web site is at http://www.oreilly.com/people/staff/seth
ARIZONA ASI MEMBERS: WATCH FOR YOUR REGISTRATION FORM IN THE MAIL. (IF YOU
ARE NOT ON OUR MAILING LIST AND WOULD LIKE A REGISTRATION FORM, CALL JANET
PERLMAN AT (602) 569-7302, OR EMAIL AT jperlman@aol.com)
THIS PROGRAM IS PARTIALLY UNDERWRITTEN BY THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS
PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT SERIES.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:30:28 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Deborah Decker <debdeckr@ROANOKE.INFI.NET>
Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf
In-Reply-To: <199801090454.XAA08681@mailhost.infi.net>
The question of long distance mentors is one that I would like to ask too.
At 11:52 PM 1/8/98 EST, you wrote:
>I have completed the USDA indexing classes and am planning to attend the ASI
>1998 Conference. Any suggestions on where to start for sessions are welcome.
>I just had my 3rd child and am looking for a 5 year projection into steady
>freelance indexing. Does anyone attend the conference yearly ? Are mentors
>available long distance ?
>
>Thanks!!!!!!!!!
>Annette
>BooksEnd@aol.com
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:35:33 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Lynn Moncrief <techndex@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords
In-Reply-To: <199801222232.OAA20698@mail-gw2.pacbell.net>
At 02:34 PM 1/22/98 -0800, Michael wrote:
>At 08:12 AM 1/22/98 -0800, Lynn wrote:
>
>>At 10:44 AM 1/21/98 -0800, Michael wrote:
>>I'm very glad you brought this up about enabling changed keywords. I happen
>>to be doing a lot of this in my current index which has a lot of terms that
>>contain the same strings for keywords I've created before encountering
>>them. (Apparently the software designers also thought the same strings I
>>create for keywords are good for the names of reports, parameters, etc.
>>they created for the software. Aiiiish!!!! This is yet another good reason
>>for glancing at the screen whenever you make an entry: to catch unwanted
>>expansions of keywords.)
>
>Aiiiish!!!! indeed, Lynn. I too create mnemonic keywords, and keep many in
>standard lists, but I encounter this problem very rarely so when it actually
>has come up I've found it rather amusing. Wish I could think of a funny
>example.
Hi Michael,
It doesn't come up in every index, thank goodness, but in enough to be a
slight annoyance. Maybe it's because I do a lot of geeky computer manuals
containing weird character strings. (But then you do too. Hmmm.) Usually I
precede my keywords with the letter "x" unless that in itself would lend to
an unwanted expansion. Like you, I've had some really amusing expansions,
some so hysterical that I've called hubby in the room to see them. (OK, so
we don't get out enough...) ;D
>
>>Anyway, sometimes just going back to the Macrex's main menu (as directed in
>>the manual) seems to enable the changed keywords. At other times, I've had
>>to totally exit Macrex and restart it to enable them, a real timewaster.
>>Are you saying that saving the index is what consistently enables them?
TIA!!!
>
>The manual says that changed keywords have to be enabled by resorting the
>index, and that this can be done simply, if you have automatic sort turned
>on, by moving to the Sort, Merge, or Print module and then back to the Main
>Menu.
> Some time ago it occurred to me that a save occurs in each case and I
>wondered whether that's what's really responsible for enabling changed
>keywords -- especially since I couldn't imagine what resorting could have to
>do with it -- so I tried doing a Write only, and bingo!, it worked. I just
>now tried doing this with automatic sort off, and it works too.
I started to look that up in the manual to make sure I was correct (which I
wasn't) before posting my message, but forgive me for not having done so.
<real sheepish grin> That was a brilliant deduction on your part that a
save occurs with each of those operations and I greatly appreciate the tip!
>
>I've never found any need to exit Macrex to enable changed keywords. That
>is necessary only to increase the number of keywords available.
>
I've now figured that when you quit Macrex, it of course automatically
saves the index. And saving the index is the key as you have shown. ;-D
<slapping forehead with heel of hand>
Speaking of increasing the number of available keywords, I've never had to
do that. It's not because I haven't wanted to as I even create keywords for
my frequently misspelled words (which Macrex will nicely correct). I found
that when I've created so many that I can't remember them all and I'm
forced to page through many screenfuls of them at the end of the index, I'm
no longer saving time by using all of them. In some indexes, I find myself
for one reason or another creating keywords I can't easily remember because
I've already created similar ones for similar expansions. I am probably the
only one on Index-L with this problem. ;-D
>
>Here's another undocumented command I found: Ctrl-PgUp as a way of
>reinitiating Group mode from the top of the index (Enter regroups from the
>top line of the current group -- which is helpful at times). In the lastest
>version, of course, Ctrl--Up Arrow does the same thing.
Could you explain this one more? I use Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDown to rapidly
get to the top and bottom of the index, but do not understand what you mean
with respect to Group mode (which I use a whole lot!!). You are great
Macrex power user!! :-)
Lynn
***********************************
Lynn Moncrief
(techndex@pacbell.net)
TECHindex & Docs
Technical and Scientific Indexing
***********************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:58:35 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: PilarW <PilarW@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Washington DC, ASI 20th Anniversary -- Advance Notice
Washington, DC Chapter
American Society of Indexers
20th Anniversary Celebration
Where We've Been -- Where
We're Going: From CRT to the Internet
Saturday, April 4, 1998
Embassy Suites
Old-Town Alexandria, VA
--- ADVANCE NOTICE --- ADVANCE NOTICE --- ADVANCE NOTICE ---
The Washington, DC Chapter of the American Society of Indexers is please
d to
invite you to a day-long extravaganza in celebration of our 20th Anniversary.
Join us!
A Few Highlights
Annual Business Meeting
Drawing for a free 'plane trip to the annual meeting in Seattle this May
Great Moments in Indexing, with Maria Couglin
Indexers Panel
Publishers Panel
Software Demos
Dorothy Thomas, ASI's oral historian, will interview both officers and
members who have been active from the start.
More!
Full, formal program and registration information will be posted soon and
mailed to DC/ASI members.
For more information, contact Chair-Elect Mike Bernier at mbernier@bna.com or
202/452-6395
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:24:16 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: STC Indexing Special Interest Group
The Society for Technical Communication's Indexing Special Interest Group
has started a newsletter, one page of which is "Upcoming Events." We will
be trying to list as many indexing-related events as we can find, whether
technical or not.
If you have an upcoming event you want listed, please send me a message
about it so that I can get it into the newsletter. The newsletter is
published in January, May, and September, and the deadlines for events are
December 15th, April 15th (hmmm), and August 15th.
Send the information to me or to Pilar Wyman...
jancw@mindspring.com or Pilarw@aol.com
Thanks,
Jan
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Jan C. Wright
Wright Information Indexing Services
Jancw@mindspring.com
www.mindspring. com/~jancw
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:05:48 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: TedC877022 <TedC877022@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Digital Signatures
In a message dated 98-01-18 12:56:50 EST, Nancy writes:
<You can't handwrite a signature on a contract that you intend to create and
fax from your PC, but you can use an 'x' with your name printed after it to
transmit back to the client and drop the signed one in the mail. >
In a message dated Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:09:49 EST, Susan writes:
<< That's a good idea..but I wonder if it is legal to have your signature
scanned
into a eps file (or any file that can be imported into other programs) so that
you can just use the "place" feature of your software and put you signature on
your document before faxing it? I know there are places that will scan picture
and such and put them on a disk for you for less than $10.00. That would
illimnate one of the major needs for a stand alone fax or a scanner until you
could afford them.
Susan >>
What has been said here is very true and most useful: a digital signature can
be affixed to a computer-generated fax, when using word processors such as
Word and Word Perfect, and will be just as legible and just as legal as one
actually hand written on a paper page and faxed.
If anyone would like to send me a signature via snail mail, to the address
shown below, I will convert it to a digital signature and return it to you via
either snail mail (on diskette) or via email for $10.00. Additional
signatures can also be provided on the same diskette/email for only $5.00
each. In either case, provide the appropriate address for the return mail.
Ted Cole
Cole Computer Solutions
P.O. Box 145
Manteca, CA 95336
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:47:01 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Charles R. Anderson" <c.anderson.seattle@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf
In-Reply-To: <980124045840.2.22676@mtigwc06>
I've thought about sub-contracting on some long-term projects, but the idea
of long-distance is daunting, involving as it would re-sending copy to
someone, spending considerable time on the telephone (at least in the
beginning when two-way consulting is necessary and e-mail just would be too
cumbersome, and working out a reasonable compensation arrangement on both
sides. I will be very interested in the comments too.
Charles Anderson
Charles Anderson
c.anderson.seattle@worldnet.att.net
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:06:20 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Bookindexr <Bookindexr@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf
In a message dated 98-01-24 14:48:41 EST, you write:
<< spending considerable time on the telephone (at least in the
beginning when two-way consulting is necessary and e-mail just would be too
cumbersome, >>
What about internet phone. I have just recently installed one on my computer
and the sound it perfectly clear. With the program I have you only pay for the
program itself there isn't a monthly charge. It is similar to instant message
except rather than sending typewritten messages you send your recorded
message. As far as sending
Susan Wilkerson
Bookindexr@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:58:52 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Digital Signatures
In-Reply-To: <199801250529.XAA23100@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>If anyone would like to send me a signature via snail mail, to the address
>shown below, I will convert it to a digital signature and return it to you via
>either snail mail (on diskette) or via email for $10.00. Additional
>signatures can also be provided on the same diskette/email for only $5.00
>each. In either case, provide the appropriate address for the return mail.
Although I have nothing against entrepreneurship per se, I do hate to see
this list used for advertising. Any one of us who has a scanner could
provide this same service to other indexers as a professional courtesy. I'd
be willing to do it.
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:49:44 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf
In-Reply-To: <199801240531.XAA04331@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Deborah and Annette asked about long-distance mentoring. How well it can be
done long-distance depends in part on what sort of mentoring you're looking
for. There are so many kinds of mentoring. If you're looking for someone to
train you, then I'd have to say it would be tricky to do
long-distance--much easier to do F2F--but still possible. You'd have to be
able to send indexes back and forth as e-mail attachments, so as to be
operating in "real time."
OTOH, if by mentoring you mean that you're looking for advice about getting
a business started, someone to help with your resume, a referral or two--in
other words, something less formal and requiring less work on the mentor's
part--sure, that can be done long-distance. I don't see why not. Not every
mentoring relationship is a formal apprenticeship.
As for ASI conferences, I go to them every year (well, I did miss one
year). They were vital when I was new: they gave me a chance to sit down
with my (long-distance) mentor F2F, I met lots of other indexers (both new
and experienced) and a few editors, I attended workshops aimed at
beginners. The other benefit was less tangible but no less
important--attending conferences made me feel like a professional indexer,
at a time when I really needed that confidence boost.
My advice to new indexers who are going to the Seattle conference is to
attend several workshops aimed at newer indexers (if you can't tell from
the title, write to the conference organizers or to the person giving the
workshop), get together with other new indexers for some moral support,
allow yourself plenty of time for just talking to people (e.g., plan to
spend just about every meal with one or more indexers), bring business
cards (please!!!), expect to be overwhelmed. As for lining up a mentor, if
you need a formal apprenticeship but can't find anyone, consider a
less-formal relationship to start with. There's no reason you can't have
more than one mentor. When I got started, I had two (informal) mentors, one
long-distance and one local (thanks Barbara! thanks Kathryn!).
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:36:36 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Deborah Decker <debdeckr@ROANOKE.INFI.NET>
Subject: Re: Newbie to ASI conf
In-Reply-To: <199801251757.MAA03001@mailhost.infi.net>
I personally am considering the USDA course for my education in indexing. I
just received L.Bonura's book from Amazon Books and will be reading it
during "the football game"!
What I would be interested in after a time with the USDA course is the
second mentoring option that you mentioned. I think that other steps that I
NEED to take after starting the course will be joining the ASI! I probably
should do that first. I live near Roanoke, VA so I don't know how close any
other indexers may be. I am sure that alot of support can be derived by
email contact. I have ALREADY gained so much help and encouragement from
this list!
I will not be attending the ASI conf. but perhaps by next year I will be
able to attend and receive the benefits from that gathering with all the
interesting workshops.
Thanks to everyone for their help and encouragement to the "newbies"!
Debby Decker
At 11:49 AM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Deborah and Annette asked about long-distance mentoring. How well it can be
>done long-distance depends in part on what sort of mentoring you're looking
>for. There are so many kinds of mentoring. If you're looking for someone to
>train you, then I'd have to say it would be tricky to do
>long-distance--much easier to do F2F--but still possible. You'd have to be
>able to send indexes back and forth as e-mail attachments, so as to be
>operating in "real time."
>
>OTOH, if by mentoring you mean that you're looking for advice about getting
>a business started, someone to help with your resume, a referral or two--in
>other words, something less formal and requiring less work on the mentor's
>part--sure, that can be done long-distance. I don't see why not. Not every
>mentoring relationship is a formal apprenticeship.
>
>As for ASI conferences, I go to them every year (well, I did miss one
>year). They were vital when I was new: they gave me a chance to sit down
>with my (long-distance) mentor F2F, I met lots of other indexers (both new
>and experienced) and a few editors, I attended workshops aimed at
>beginners. The other benefit was less tangible but no less
>important--attending conferences made me feel like a professional indexer,
>at a time when I really needed that confidence boost.
>
>My advice to new indexers who are going to the Seattle conference is to
>attend several workshops aimed at newer indexers (if you can't tell from
>the title, write to the conference organizers or to the person giving the
>workshop), get together with other new indexers for some moral support,
>allow yourself plenty of time for just talking to people (e.g., plan to
>spend just about every meal with one or more indexers), bring business
>cards (please!!!), expect to be overwhelmed. As for lining up a mentor, if
>you need a formal apprenticeship but can't find anyone, consider a
>less-formal relationship to start with. There's no reason you can't have
>more than one mentor. When I got started, I had two (informal) mentors, one
>long-distance and one local (thanks Barbara! thanks Kathryn!).
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>
>Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
>Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
>Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
>http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:43:14 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sharon Wright <SHARONW@MICHIE.COM>
Subject: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms
<friendly snip>
What has been said here is very true and most useful:
a digital signature can be affixed to a
computer-generated fax, when using word processors
such as Word and Word Perfect, and will be just as
legible and just as legal as one actually hand written on
a paper page and faxed.
<end snip>
Ok, my Inner Lawyer compels me to respond.
First of all, an important definition. What you are
talking about here is essentially a photograph of a
signature, imported as a graphic, correct? This is not
what the term "digital signature" means. Here is the
definition from the Washington State Code, one of the
few states who have enacted legislation regarding this
hot new Internet topic:
? 19.34.020
... (10) "Digital signature" means a transformation of a
message using an asymmetric cryptosystem such
that a person having the initial message and the
signer's public key can accurately determine:
(a) Whether the transformation was created
using the private key that corresponds to the signer's
public key; and
(b) Whether the initial message has been altered
since the transformation was made.
(Washington Electronic Authentication Act,
??19.34.010 to 19.34.903, Annotated Revised Code of
Washington).
You may have heard the phrase public/private key
encryption, or something similar. That is what the
phrase "digital signature" means. The technology is
still relatively new and expensive, and is used primarily
by the credit card and banking industries (so far), but it
has nothing to do with graphic representations of
actual signatures. I will be happy to elaborate with
what little I know (from having read and indexed the
Washington legislation, primarily) if anyone is
interested! (Which I sort of doubt!) :-)
Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online
representation of your signature has no more legal
significance than a photograph of your signature-- that
is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of
signatures are not considered good evidence unless
you can also produce the original with a "real"
signature. This is why when you close on your real
estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you
are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the same
document (and why the bank or mortgage company
keeps the "best" copies).
I haven't seen any cases on this issue, but I would be
willing to go out on a limb and predict the outcome.
Just consider this a friendly heads-up: Don't count on
a computer graphic of a signature having any legally
binding effect whatsoever. The fact that you can
download the signatures of everyone from Thomas
Jefferson to Michael Jordan off of the Internet would be
a big argument against relying on this as a means of
identification.
Back to regularly scheduled indexing chat...
-- Sharon W.
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:00:13 -0700
Reply-To: aelser@uswest.com
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Arthur Elser <aelser@USWEST.COM>
Organization: U S West Communications
Subject: Faxed signatures
On 1/26/98 Sharon Wright wrote:
>>Don't count on a computer graphic of a signature having any legally
binding effect whatsoever. The fact that you can download the
signatures of everyone from Thomas Jefferson to Michael Jordan off of
the Internet would be a big argument against relying on this as a means
of identification.<<
I would agree that as a purely legal signature, this is probably true. I
have, however, closed on a condo I was selling by faxing "signed"
contracts back and forth and then signing the "real" contract at the
closing. In my previous job, we also faxed "signed" contracts and change
of scope letters to get processes rolling immediately and followed up
with signed snail mail copies.
I think one of the realities of how business is done today is that many
processes will start with faxed signatures that are followed by signed
copies that are mailed or sent by overnight express. And I suspect that
in a court of law, the intent shown by one party who faxes a "signed"
copy would hold that party to the contents of the "signed" contract. It
must fall somewhere between a verbal contract and a contract signed in
front of witnesses. A handshake can be as binding as a formally written
contract, given the right circumstances.
Just a guess from a non-lawyer based on some practical experience.
==================================================================
Art Elser (303) 965-4825
Information Developer, U S WEST aelser@uswest.com
There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you
in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts.
Illusions Richard Bach
===================================================================
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:01:28 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms
At 11:43 AM 1/26/1998 -0500, Sharon Wright wrote:
>Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online
>representation of your signature has no more legal
>significance than a photograph of your signature-- that
>is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of
>signatures are not considered good evidence unless
>you can also produce the original with a "real"
>signature. This is why when you close on your real
>estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you
>are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the same
>document (and why the bank or mortgage company
>keeps the "best" copies).
Sharon, thanks for sending this explanation/clarification. It is how I
understand the law, as well, and having just been involved in not only a
long-distance real estate deal but an ongoing long-distance probate case
that I am handling without a lawyer, I can assure you that out here in the
Real World, Real Signatures are demanded at the point of closure.
I hadn't gotten involved in this discussion earlier because I am NOT a
lawyer, and I thought perhaps the companies and agencies I have been dealing
with were just being stodgy or persnickety--even though I had always
understood that photocopied or faxed signatures weren't binding. I figured
maybe the rules had changed and I just hadn't heard about it yet.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:36:04 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sharon Wright <SHARONW@MICHIE.COM>
Subject: Re: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms -Reply
Nope. Trust me, the law rarely, if ever, changes that
rapidly! :-) If you think about it, there are very good
reasons for it. To hold otherwise would open the door
to all kinds of fraud and mischief. The next thing will
likely be digital signatures (the encrypted kind), but I
doubt that photocopied or faxed signatures will ever
attain the same legal status because they are just too
easy to fake.
>>> Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG> 01/26/98
12:01pm >>>
At 11:43 AM 1/26/1998 -0500, Sharon Wright wrote:
>Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online
>representation of your signature has no more legal
>significance than a photograph of your signature--
that
>is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of
>signatures are not considered good evidence unless
>you can also produce the original with a "real"
>signature. This is why when you close on your real
>estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you
>are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the
same
>document (and why the bank or mortgage company
>keeps the "best" copies).
Sharon, thanks for sending this
explanation/clarification. It is how I understand the law,
as well, and having just been involved in not only a
long-distance real estate deal but an ongoing
long-distance probate case that I am handling without
a lawyer, I can assure you that out here in the
Real World, Real Signatures are demanded at the
point of closure.
I hadn't gotten involved in this discussion earlier
because I am NOT a lawyer, and I thought perhaps the
companies and agencies I have been dealing with
were just being stodgy or persnickety--even though I
had always understood that photocopied or faxed
signatures weren't binding. I figured maybe the rules
had changed and I just hadn't heard about it yet.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:33:43 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Hector Echeverria <Thesauri@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Multilingual Thesauri
No es precisamente USMARC, pero la siguiente website tiene informacion sobre
tesauros multilingues:
http://www.cris.com/~multites
Steve Brown
Thesauri@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:35:37 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords
At 08:35 AM 1/24/98 -0800, Lynn Moncrief wrote:
>
>Speaking of increasing the number of available keywords, I've never had to
>do that. It's not because I haven't wanted to as I even create keywords for
>my frequently misspelled words (which Macrex will nicely correct). I found
>that when I've created so many that I can't remember them all and I'm
>forced to page through many screenfuls of them at the end of the index, I'm
>no longer saving time by using all of them. In some indexes, I find myself
>for one reason or another creating keywords I can't easily remember because
>I've already created similar ones for similar expansions. I am probably the
>only one on Index-L with this problem. ;-D
You're definintely not the only one who has trouble remembering keywords.
I, for one, do too, but there's a much easier way of finding forgotten
keywords than paging down through screens and screens of them: enter "#"
plus a few letters of the term for which the keyword stands, and then back
up a line with the new command Alt--Up Arrow, or, if you think you remember
the first couple letters of your keyword, enter "*" plus those letters.
>>
>>Here's another undocumented command I found: Ctrl-PgUp as a way of
>>reinitiating Group mode from the top of the index (Enter regroups from the
>>top line of the current group -- which is helpful at times). In the lastest
>>version, of course, Ctrl--Up Arrow does the same thing.
>
>Could you explain this one more? I use Ctrl-PgUp and Ctrl-PgDown to rapidly
>get to the top and bottom of the index, but do not understand what you mean
>with respect to Group mode (which I use a whole lot!!).
What I meant by "reinitiating Group mode" is grouping on a new string from
within Group mode. We can't do this with Ctrl-H, of course, since that
toggles us back out of Group mode: so we can use either Enter, which shows
everthing in the new group from the top line of the previous group to the
end of the index, or Ctrl-PgUp (and now Ctrl--Up Arrow too), which shows the
entire new group (from the top of the index). (Oh, I just noticed something
else that might have been the source of confusion: by "current group" I
meant not the new group but the one on the screen at the moment of
regrouping [which then becomes the previous group].)
Michael
Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA 95945
530-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:10:59 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: BECohen653 <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Upcoming Publicity Event
The ASI History/Archaeology SIG is pleased to announce that we have been able
to arrange an "Indexing Clinic" to be held on Saturday April 4, 10 am - 3 pm,
in conjunction with the Organization of American Historians' annual meeting in
Indianapolis, IN.
Indexers interested in participating in the Indexing Clinic are asked to sign
up in advance (just send me a note that you intend to be at the meeting).
Participation is open to all ASI members, not just members of the
History/Archaeology SIG.
The clinic is informal and free to conference participants; indexers are
available to talk to authors and editors in the meeting room we have been
provided. (OAH is one of the few organizations to provide free meeting rooms
like this, and we are lucky to be able to take advantage of this sort of
opportunity to spread the word about ASI and quality indexing.)
Basically, participants are "on call" during the hours of the event to answer
questions, hand out ASI brochures and directories, and meet with publishers'
representatives at the meeting. Also, we might arrange a small exhibit of good
history indexes.
I plan to assemble an information packet to distribute to publishers in the
exhibits room, so any indexers interested in having a personal brochure
included in the packet should send me 50 copies of their brochure by March 15.
Any extra brochures will be distributed to authors at the Indexing Clinic. I
also intend to include History/Archaeology SIG directories in this packet, as
well as the main ASI brochure.
If you are not yet in the H/A SIG directory, please send your information and
membership check to Margie Towery (SIG coordinator) asap, so she can update
the directory before March 15 (so I'll have time to copy it before the
Indexing Clinic).
BTW, there is no charge for attending the clinic (no registration is necessary
for the OAH meeting, unless you plan to visit the exhibits area or any
sessions).
I plan to hand out the information packets on the first day of the conference,
along with an invitation to attend the ,Indexing Clinic.I will also hang signs
around the hotels and convention center about the Indexing Clinic, in an
effort to increase awareness of this event. There will also be a notice in the
"Pocket Program" distributed to registrants (again, no charge for that).
Finally, in our ad in the preliminary program Joan Griffitts and I have
included a mention of the Indexing Clinic. These activities should ensure a
good turnout.
So, please let me know if you will be at meeting and are willing to assist, if
you have a brochure to include in the information packet, or if you have any
suggestions for making this a successful event. Thanks.
Barbara
Barbara E. Cohen
Indexing and Editorial Services
41 South Hawthorne Lane
Indianapolis, IN 46219-6309
317/ 359-1219
317/ 359-1299 fax
BECohen653@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:38:53 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: TedC877022 <TedC877022@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Digital Signatures - Clarification of terms
In a message dated 98-01-26 11:42:53 EST, you write:
<< <friendly snip>
What has been said here is very true and most useful:
a digital signature can be affixed to a
computer-generated fax, when using word processors
such as Word and Word Perfect, and will be just as
legible and just as legal as one actually hand written on
a paper page and faxed.
<end snip>
Ok, my Inner Lawyer compels me to respond.
First of all, an important definition. What you are
talking about here is essentially a photograph of a
signature, imported as a graphic, correct? This is not
what the term "digital signature" means. Here is the
definition from the Washington State Code, one of the
few states who have enacted legislation regarding this
hot new Internet topic:
? 19.34.020
.... (10) "Digital signature" means a transformation of a
message using an asymmetric cryptosystem such
that a person having the initial message and the
signer's public key can accurately determine:
(a) Whether the transformation was created
using the private key that corresponds to the signer's
public key; and
(b) Whether the initial message has been altered
since the transformation was made.
(Washington Electronic Authentication Act,
??19.34.010 to 19.34.903, Annotated Revised Code of
Washington).
You may have heard the phrase public/private key
encryption, or something similar. That is what the
phrase "digital signature" means. The technology is
still relatively new and expensive, and is used primarily
by the credit card and banking industries (so far), but it
has nothing to do with graphic representations of
actual signatures. I will be happy to elaborate with
what little I know (from having read and indexed the
Washington legislation, primarily) if anyone is
interested! (Which I sort of doubt!) :-)
Secondly, and more importantly, a graphic, online
representation of your signature has no more legal
significance than a photograph of your signature-- that
is, none. The same rule would hold: Photocopies of
signatures are not considered good evidence unless
you can also produce the original with a "real"
signature. This is why when you close on your real
estate or execute your will or power of attorney, you
are forced to sign or initial multiple copies of the same
document (and why the bank or mortgage company
keeps the "best" copies).
I haven't seen any cases on this issue, but I would be
willing to go out on a limb and predict the outcome.
Just consider this a friendly heads-up: Don't count on
a computer graphic of a signature having any legally
binding effect whatsoever. The fact that you can
download the signatures of everyone from Thomas
Jefferson to Michael Jordan off of the Internet would be
a big argument against relying on this as a means of
identification.
Back to regularly scheduled indexing chat...
-- Sharon W.
>>
Yes, to be technically correct, this is digitized signature and not a digital
signature.
Ted
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:09:09 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Christine Shuttleworth <ChristineShuttleworth@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Macrex: keywords
Lynn Moncrief wrote:
I found
>that when I've created so many [keywords] that I can't remember them all=
and I'm
>forced to page through many screenfuls of them at the end of the index, =
I'm
>no longer saving time by using all of them. In some indexes, I find myse=
lf
>for one reason or another creating keywords I can't easily remember beca=
use
>I've already created similar ones for similar expansions. I am probably =
the
>only one on Index-L with this problem. ;-D
I sometimes forget I've created a keyword and =
create a new one for the same word or phrase!
What I do if I have so many keywords that I
can't remember them all is to print them all
out and put the list on my copyholder, so that =
I can easily refer to it and don't have to
scroll through endlessly. Of course, as I add
more I have to update the list.
Christine
*************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB
Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797
email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com
or 106234.1745@compuserve.com
*************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:01:15 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: AllWrite N <AllWriteN@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: office equipment
With Windows you don't have to interrupt what you are doing to receive faxes
(although you can't be online and tying up the modem when someone wants to fax
you, and you will have to open the received file before printing it), and with
a flatbed scanner you can also fax back things you didn't create on your PC,
so it is a 'cheaper' course of action for those who can't afford the real
thing -- like ME!! ;o
Nancy Noyes
All Write
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:25:06 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: AllWrite N <AllWriteN@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: office equipment
To Diane and Louise and other interested POT (people out there)
The web site below is where my husband found refill toner for our Epson. I
didn't get involved in it so I can't tell you if they only supply stuff for
Epsons, but it gives you a place to start. He said it was $20 or less (which
included shipping) to buy enough toner to refill a single cartridge and the
person he dealt with was very helpful. Again, be CAREFUL handling these Epson
cartridges! I've had little plastic pieces that hold the spring in place snap
off resulting in having to scavenge off another cartridge to replace the
missing spring and broken paperguide. >:(
http://www.cfriends.com/laston.html
Hope this helps!
Nancy Noyes
All Write
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:50:24 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Philip and Heather Jones <hpjones@RT66.COM>
Subject: keywords
I've just finished a few indexes with SKY Index, and SKY's auto-completion
enabled me to get by with about 4 keywords in an index that might otherwise
have needed about 30--and the ones I made were displayed on the screen at
all times, so I couldn't forget. I've also found an unexpected benefit; the
auto-completion practically eliminates errors of the type where you type in
nearly identical entries, but one is plural and the other singular or
something.
Heather
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to |
| do with each other... |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com |
| Los Alamos, NM |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:18:55 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Bookindexr <Bookindexr@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Marketing/Communication/Education - The Consortium of Freelancers
- New Web Site
Please if you hit reply change the address to Bookindexr@aol.com
I assure you I didn't send this to start another flame one. I am not counted
among those that enjoy them.
The Consortium is evolving into more than a marketing tool. Its focus has
changed so much that I feel that a lot more of you will be interested in what
it has to offer.
The name of the consortium has changed to The Consortium of Freelancers- TCOF.
All professions related to and beneficial to indexing, editing, etc. will be
included. Suce as: Indexer, Editors, Writers, Desk Top Publishing, Web Page
Designers - Graphic Artist...etc. You just need to be a freelancer. The New
Web Page Site we are planning will provide:
--Marketing Tools
--Communication
--Education
Marketing Tools - Exposures to potential clients with a Data Base directory of
members and their specialties. You will be listed with your Name, E-mail
Address, and Specialty and will be provide a link to you personal web page if
you have one. The Data Base will also list Publishers/Writers..etc. you will
be able to locate them by most any specifications - Name - Specialty - State,
etc. You will be able to download pre-uploaded Mailing Lists with contact
names or order your list to your specifications. We will announce marketing
projects that are in progress and future planned projects with their deadline
dates for ads. Each project advertising fee will be based on projected expense
and labor.
Communication - Not only will it give publishers, writer, etc. an online
directory of services they may need but It will solve a lot of communication
problems. We plan to offer a Chat Room without having to have any software
other than a web browser that can handle Java. Netscape and Internet Explorer
are a couple I know of. I am not familiar with any others. It will have
Internet phone capabilities. I believe (not certain) that all you will need is
a mic on your computer. There will be private rooms available for special
group meetings or even for one on one between it's members as well and their
clients. Members and their guest can come together one on one in private rooms
to discuss issues they would have normally had to pay long distance charges
for. Indexers, etc. can get to know each other more personally and built a
closer professional relationship.
There will be a Bulletin Board available for comments, suggestion, leaving
notes etc
Educational forums for it's members by hosting Online Indexing Clinics -
scheduled chats with professionals...etc.
The possibilities are limitless. However I am trying to come up with a way
that everyone can just pay a lifetime membership and not have to pay anything
else. I am hoping to generate the funds to keep the consortium going by
soliciting advertising that would offer products and services beneficial to
its members.
Monthly Financial Statement there will be a montly financial record available
upon demand.
Projected set up expenses:
In order to get the consortium working properly I need to meet some initial
expenses then it will cost very little to keep it going...Some people aren't
going to have the initial membership fee and I would need to offer a temporary
membership fee hoping to keep it at $10 per month. I just don't know what to
charge for the lifetime membership. I want to make it accessible to as many
people as possible but still meet the expenses to get it set up. I need to get
an idea of how many people may possible be interested in this and any
questions, suggestion or feedback you may have.
The web page design, service provider, registering a domain and installing a
data base will cost roughly $1000.00 Dwight Walker will be the master
designer.
The chat room $700.00 The chat service is called ParaChat if you want to look
it up on the web. The charge for this room without getting the service
provider's advertising is $50 per month if it is paid a year in advance
$600.00. There is also a connection fee of $100 (If I remember correctly)
$300 miscelleous (checking account, applying for tax ememption..etc)
So roughly unless something comes up I haven't thought of $2000 will be the
setup we need to generate to get the Consortium set up.
After the initial set up I will need a computer I don't have to fight my
family over and a third telephone line. Approximately $3000.00
Yearly maintenance projection expenses:
Maintaining a domain - $60
Chat room - $600
Internet Service Provider $300
Phone Line - $600 depending on any long distance bill
Miscellaneous - Licenses, office supplies, etc.? $440
Roughly a total of $2000 per year necessary expense to keep the consortium
operational.
Administration Salary- $30 per hour (what I would make indexing if I weren't
operating the consortium) I have no idea how much time it will take each day
to keep things running smootly and my salary isn't a necessity to keeping the
consortium operating.
Operating Funds Self-Generating - Once we have the initial setup fee the
Consortium can be funded by advertisers and future lifetime membership dues.
I have also thought of generating funds by having a Database of Advertisers
for products that may be useful to the members...not sure how this would work.
I don't want the web page clutter with ads.
We can get the chat room free if we accept their advertising. I would rather
pay the yearly fee and solicite our own ads that we know will be beneficial to
us and not a agrievation. Also it will be our main means of operating funds.
Also I need legal advice as to how to set up a non-profit organization. Can
this be done with only one officers. I took a poll of the people that were
interested in the scratch pads and 99% of them wanted me to keep this as a
service I provide. It seems no one has the time to do the leg work...and I
don't mind doing this but I want to do it as a non profit organization. I will
be the administrator. Once I get it set up I will pay myself a salary
according to the funds available and time it takes for me to operate. I want
to try to make it self serving as possible. I still want to pursue my indexing
career and I don't want to be stuck at my computer 24 hours a day monitoring
chat rooms..etc.
PLEASE.... IF YOU HIT REPLY CHANGE THE ADDRESS TO: Bookindexer@aol.com.
I will compose a summary of the feed back for anyone that is interested please
write me and give me you E-mail address.
Susan Wilkerson
Bookindexr@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:28:44 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carolyn Weaver <cweaver@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Spring Meeting, Pacific NW Chapter
SPRING MEETING, 1998
PACIFIC NORTHWEST CHAPTER
AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS
Saturday, March 7
12noon - 4p.m
Portland State University
Smith Center, Conference Room 333, Portland OR
R. JEAN BRYANT
SELF-EMPLOYMENT SUCCESS STRATEGIES
Our presenter, R. Jean Bryant, has blazed a trail as an
independent-learning consultant, teacher, and writer for over twenty-five
years. Jean is an expert on self-promotion. Her books and cassette tapes
include: Anybody Can Write--A Playful Approach, Quit Job-Hunting--Employ
Yourself, and Stop Improving Yourself and Start Living. Jean uses examples
and illustrations from her own business experiences to encourage audience
members to follow their dreams and reach their goals for building and
maintaining a successful business.
12:00 - 1:30 Lunch, Networking, "Ask an Indexer". As usual, we will
make sure that working indexers are sitting at each table,
so that new and potential indexers have a chance to ask
questions.
1:30 - 2:00 Business Meeting. Hear what we have accomplished since
our last meeting and what we are planning for the rest of
the year.
2:00 - 4:00 Presentation, Question and Answer Period.
DIRECTIONS: North of Portland: From I5, take I-405 south across the
Fremont Bridge, then take the 6th Avenue exist. South of Portland: From
I5, take I-405 north, then take the 6th Avenue exit. Follow SW Sixth to
Mill (6th intersection); turn left on Mill and left on Broadway (next
intersection) and pull into PSU parking structure on the left. East and
West of Portland: Find the downtown area, go south on Broadway, after Mill
Street pull into parking structure on left.
Parking in PSU structures is not patrolled on weekends. As you exit the
parking structure, Smith Center is one block to the left on the other side
of Broadway. Use the entrance on the south side and go up one flight of
steps to Room 233.
FEE: $20 ASI members; $25 non-ASI members. Includes a delicious buffet
lunch.
Registration deadline: Thursday, March 5, 1998
Please send a copy of this registration form and your check payable to PNW
Chapter/ASI to:
Louise Martin, Secretary/Treasurer, PNW/ASI
3829 SE Harrison, Portland, OR 97214-5944
Names of people
attending:_____________________________________________________________________
Number attending:______ ASI member _____ Non-member_____
Amount enclosed:_______________________
Questions: Louise Martin (lmart@teleport.com or 503-235-8734 or
fax@503-239-4353)
or program chair Kari Bero (bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu or
206-937-3673)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:43:19 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing?
At the risk of being a boor, I am reposting this since I saw nor received
any response the first time around. Mail gets lost, you know.
Does the name Thomas P. Copley ring any bells? He recently sent an
announcement to the List concerning upcoming Website courses and the
name seems familiar to me -- unreliable and such. Or am I confusing
the chap and his courses with someone else? I did not save the postings
when something similar went down recently.
Pity if this is a repeat performance; the prices are appealing as well as
the course contents.
Cheers,
Dave T.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:44:27 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing?
At 03:43 PM 1/27/1998 -0500, Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote:
>At the risk of being a boor, I am reposting this since I saw nor received
>any response the first time around. Mail gets lost, you know.
>
>Does the name Thomas P. Copley ring any bells? He recently sent an
>announcement to the List concerning upcoming Website courses and the
>name seems familiar to me -- unreliable and such. Or am I confusing
>the chap and his courses with someone else? I did not save the postings
>when something similar went down recently.
I'm almost certain that there was some discussion of this the first time I
saw the message posted, Dafydd. I've cleaned out my files since then, but I
hope somebody else will re-post the relevant details or let you know how to
search the archives.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:42:51 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Vicki Birchfield <vbirch@ACCESSONE.COM>
Subject: Re: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing?
Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote:
> Does the name Thomas P. Copley ring any bells? He recently sent an
> announcement to the List concerning upcoming Website courses ...
He is indeed the same chap. Others posted having problems about receiving
class materials. I took one of his classes about a year ago and had trouble
getting some of the lessons at first. I emailed him several times at one
address with no response. Then, after reading the instructions that he sent
with the first lesson on how to contact him, I realized there was an address
specifically for reporting problems such as missing lessons. Once I wrote to
that address, I got an immediate and satisfactory (automated, if I remember
correctly) response.
I think he's legit. I suspect any problems people have are due to technical
issues with his mail server rather than malicious intent on his part. But my
experience with him was quite awhile ago, in Internet-time. As far as
content went, he seemed to cover the bases pretty well. Not great, but
adequate for $20.
I think I still have the instructions on how to reach him for missing lessons
and such. If anybody wants them, let me know off-list and I'll try to find
them.
Vicki Birchfield
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:28:01 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Nancy Mulvany <nmulvany@WELL.COM>
Subject: Indexing -- Subversive?
I just have to share this article that appeared in my Sunday paper. I
wonder if it appeared elsewhere..
"A CIA Target Subversively Cataloguing Books on American Soil"
By Daniel C. Tsang
The Sunday Times [aka, Contra Costa Times]
January 25, 1998, F9
Because of me, the CIA has had to concede it does spy on Americans. Just
last month, the agency had to remove a denial posted on its Web site that
it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me throughout the 1980s and '90s
-- despite a law against political spying on Americans.
.....
But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as much by settling my
lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising to expunge my file
and never spy on my political activities in the future.
.....
The CIA says my dossier was created because of my work with CovertAction
Information Bulletin, now CovertAction Quarterly. I understand the agency's
unhappiness with a magazine that tries to expose its shenanigans, but all I
did was index its magazine. That's not subversive.
.....
My cumulative index to the first 12 issues of CAIB came out in 1981.
Beginning that year, my CIA file reveals, the agency sent repeated
inquiries to the Immigration and Nationalization [sic] Service about my
nationality status, describing me as "Hong Kong-born Chinese." ... in the
end, the INS told the CIA it didn't have anything on me. It was right: I am
a U.S. citizen through my mother, who was born in Seattle.
..... and on goes the article
-nancy
Nancy Mulvany
Voice: 510-524-4195
Fax: 510-527-4681
Email: nmulvany@well.com
Books for Indexers ====> http://www.well.com/~nmulvany
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:50:36 -0800
Reply-To: mclaughb@cgs.edu
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Bonny McLaughlin <Bonny.McLaughlin@CGU.EDU>
Organization: cgs.edu
Subject: Announcement: Southern California Chapter meeting
American Society of Indexers' Southern California Chapter invites you to
assess your aptitude and degree of interest in a career in indexing. Our
next
meeting will be:
"Getting Started in Indexing"
February 7, 1998 at 11:00 a.m.
at the home of Anne Leach in Palm Desert,
California
Lunch will be provided.
Participants are invited to submit an index to a short paper we will
provide
on "marketing one's indexing services." All the indexes will be reviewed
and
compared briefly at the meeting. We will discuss the skills and talents
shared by successful indexers---the hands-on exercise of indexing a
short
treatise will allow participants to see how well their own tastes,
skills, and
talents correspond to those of successful indexers. The treatise on
"marketing
one's indexing services" will provide a great deal of useful information
for
beginning and established indexers alike, and we will have a Q & A
session so
that your specific questions can be explored.
RSVP asap (but no later than Feb 3, please) to:
anneleach@aol.com or 760-360-1432
When you have "registered" for the luncheon, we'll send the short
treatise via
e-mail, along with directions to Anne' s house.
We're looking forward to seeing you.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:24:32 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: TShere7566 <TShere7566@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
There have been a few tantalizing posts in the last week on how to handle
locators for continuous discussions when a full page illustration, with page
number, interrupts the discussion. Joanne Clendenen wrote, in talking about
editing: "The most common error for me is to have a continuous page range that
runs through a page with an unrelated photo or illustration." Others also
referred to this as a mistake. Kara Pekar said that in an index for a junior
high textbook she had used a page range (231-241) for a brief continuous
discussion interrupted by 4 discontinuous pages of illustrations, rather than
a string of 4 separate locators. A day or two later, Diane asked about the
same topic, and in a reply to her Lynn Moncrief weighed in on the side of the
page range. (I've summarized all this from my printouts; hope I've got it all
right.)
I'd be very interested to hear more opinions on this subject. I think it's not
an unusual situation to run into, particularly with certain kinds of
books--garden books, for instance, and textbooks, as Kara mentioned. When I
first ran into this question with a practice index, I looked in both Nancy
Mulvany's and Wellisch's books and could find nothing to the point. That being
the case, is there any accepted wisdom on this? Some of you seemed to imply
that there was--that using a page range *isn't* appropriate if other material
intervenes in a continuous discussion. But my gut feeling about it is that
Kara and Lynn are right--a page range serves the reader better, just makes
more sense, as well as being less cluttered in print. And that's what I've
done when it's come up in indexes I've written.
More opinions please!
--Therese Shere
Healdsburg, California
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:36:47 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: JPerlman <JPerlman@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
Therese,
Since you asked ........ in my years of indexing, I've turned into a real
purist. When I come across this type of situation, I do *not* use the page
range, but rather break the page reference into whatever page numbers indicate
where the discussion is. I do not like to take the liberty of implying a 3
page discussion (ie, pp. 14-16) when the discussion may be one paragraph at
the bottom page 14 that continues onto the top of page 16, with an unrelated
figure or table on page 15. I prefer to be entirely "truthful" about what is
there in the index (no judgment intended here -- just an honest listing of
page locators).'
The thing that gives me more of a problem is a situation in which something is
discussed again and again, as illustrative of one point and then another, on a
succession of pages, when the discussions are discontinuous. The string of
page locators is disconcerting in the index (to me), and I find it more
difficult to maintain my "purist" position and list all page locators. I
often wonder if the publishers I work for change these strings of locators to
a range after I submit the index. Since I don't often see the published
volumes on many of my books, I don't know. OTOH, I haven't been criticized
for the practice of listing the string of locators or told not to do it.
However, I must admit it does look inelegant (to me), although technically
correct. Do any of you wish to add your comments here?
Janet Perlman
Southwest Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:31:24 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended)
I'm sure those of you who have cats are familiar with this behavior: As you
sit reading or marking text, your cat slowly insinuates itself between you
and your book, usually one slow, "don't-notice-what-I'm-up-to" paw at a
time. Well, tonight I encountered a new one -- my cat tried the same
tactic as I worked on the computer. He was greatly affronted by the
beeping which ensued when he attempted to lie full length on the keyboard,
and left in huff, trying unsuccessfully to pretend that he hadn't been
there at all!
Kara Pekar
jkpekar@crosslink.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:59:17 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Christine Shuttleworth <ChristineShuttleworth@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
Janet Perlman wrote:
<The thing that gives me more of a problem is a situation in which someth=
ing is
discussed again and again, as illustrative of one point and then another,=
on a
succession of pages, when the discussions are discontinuous. The string =
of
page locators is disconcerting in the index (to me), and I find it more
difficult to maintain my "purist" position and list all page locators. =
I have a related problem (not for the first time, =
but I have never been very happy with the way I
have handled similar problems in the past). I'm
indexing a biography. The subject's parents are
mentioned repeatedly throughout the text, but
most often only in passing, in the context of
brief visits paid to them, or letters written
to them. This results in long strings of page
numbers in their entries (I can't combine their
two entries into one, as sometimes they are
mentioned individually, most often as a couple.)
Even a subheading, "X's letters to", will again
consist of a long string. Is it worth creating
sub-subheadings dividing the letters according
to subject-matter? I feel this would be taking a =
sledge-hammer to crack a nut. Or should I quietly =
omit all such trivial entries? This on the other =
hand would distort the index by not sufficiently =
conveying the subject's long-term close =
relationship with his parents. As Hazel Bell
has pointed out, the impact of such a long
string, in defiance of the accepted wisdom that
one should restrict the number of page references
per entry to, say, 9 or even to 6, can tell its own =
story. I would appreciate any advice.
Christine
*************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB
Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797
email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com
or 106234.1745@compuserve.com
*************************************************************=
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:31:13 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" <jbclend@FLASH.NET>
Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
I have to admit being moved by Lynn and Kara's arguments for a page
range, even when an unrelated illustration intervenes. I guess I was
being too literal, perhaps, by breaking it up, not giving the reader the
benefit of some intelligence. Unfortunately, in one recent book, I made
the "mistake" of putting in a page range through an unrelated photo, and
the author caught this in his review. He thought it was an error, and
told me I needed to check each locator in the index. Now, this author
was micromanaging the entire project, but it was interesting that he
considered it a mistake.
Anybody else want to weigh in on this?
Joanne
--
AfterWords Indexing Services
Joanne E. Clendenen
email: jbclend@bigfoot.com
http://www.flash.net/~jbclend
----------------
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler."
Einstein
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:36:36 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" <jbclend@FLASH.NET>
Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
In response to Christine's problem of relatives/correspondents mentioned
throughout a biography, I will say first of all, that I find these sorts
of problems fascinating, and I commend Christine for looking at the "big
picture" of the number of mentions illustrating the continuity of a
relationship. I guess I would let the strings of page numbers stand in
this case, just to illustrate that relationship. Perhaps you could
leave out some of the most trivial mentions and keep enough to get the
point across.
Joanne
--
AfterWords Indexing Services
Joanne E. Clendenen
email: jbclend@bigfoot.com
http://www.flash.net/~jbclend
----------------
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler."
Einstein
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:43:01 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: chat: Re: Indexing -- Subversive?
I think this is the same guy who has been monitoring all my daily
activities via a transmitter he installed in my TV remote device. I usually
keep the device inside a lead lined bag, but sometimes I have to use it. On
such occasions, I counteract his efforts by wearing on my head an aluminum
foil refractor device. I have kept a log of his near-daily attempts to
control my thoughts via the flashing around my skylights, since before 1947
(he has even followed me to Vermont), but it never occured to me to index
those logs. If the CIA is interested, I could certainly do so. He is one of
the reasons I feel I cannot attend the Seattle ASI conference. He has even
suggested that while most of us believe ASI stands for American Society of
Indexers, the FBI has us filed under All Subversive Indexers, and that even
indexers who are not members have intensive notes in said file, even
digital photographs. I am seriously concerned that by diseminating his
article, Nancy has put us all at risk for a sudden and simultaneous hard
drive meltdown via an email virus known as the Tsang Froid virus, which
originally was predicted by Nostradamus, and by some interpretations, by
C.S. Lewis, and is one of the signs of the impending Apocalypse, scheduled
to occur on or about May 5, 2000 when the 5 inner planets align.
Rachel (d.o.b. 1953)
>I just have to share this article that appeared in my Sunday paper. I
>wonder if it appeared elsewhere..
>
>"A CIA Target Subversively Cataloguing Books on American Soil"
>By Daniel C. Tsang
>The Sunday Times [aka, Contra Costa Times]
>January 25, 1998, F9
>
>Because of me, the CIA has had to concede it does spy on Americans. Just
>last month, the agency had to remove a denial posted on its Web site that
>it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me throughout the 1980s and '90s
>-- despite a law against political spying on Americans.
>
>.....
>
>But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as much by settling my
>lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising to expunge my file
>and never spy on my political activities in the future.
>
>.....
>
>The CIA says my dossier was created because of my work with CovertAction
>Information Bulletin, now CovertAction Quarterly. I understand the agency's
>unhappiness with a magazine that tries to expose its shenanigans, but all I
>did was index its magazine. That's not subversive.
>
>.....
>
>My cumulative index to the first 12 issues of CAIB came out in 1981.
>Beginning that year, my CIA file reveals, the agency sent repeated
>inquiries to the Immigration and Nationalization [sic] Service about my
>nationality status, describing me as "Hong Kong-born Chinese." ... in the
>end, the INS told the CIA it didn't have anything on me. It was right: I am
>a U.S. citizen through my mother, who was born in Seattle.
>
>..... and on goes the article
>
>
>-nancy
>
>Nancy Mulvany
>Voice: 510-524-4195
>Fax: 510-527-4681
>Email: nmulvany@well.com
>Books for Indexers ====> http://www.well.com/~nmulvany
Rachel Rice
Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
Indexing, editing, proofreading
http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:19:17 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Craig Brown <lastword@I1.NET>
Subject: Biographies, parents in
Christine Shuttleworth asks about long strings of entries regarding a
biographee's letters to parents.
My approach in one book was to create an entry under the biographee for
"letters to parents" (there was also an entry for "letters to friends")
and to include under that only letters that were quoted at the length of
at least a paragraph. I did not include mention of letters that were not
quoted directly because I felt at the time that the reader would expect
to find an actual excerpt from the letter. This allowed me to omit
entries of the nature, "In a letter to her parents, Dorothy said she
missed Kansas." Fortunately for me I ended up with only 7 references
even though the book was over 300 pages in length.
However, once I had decided on that rule (that the letter had to be
quoted at length) I would have included all letters which met the rule
even if they were numerous.
It would be interesting to me to know later on how you decided to handle
this, Christine.
Craig Brown
==========================================
The Last Word lastword@i1.net
Indexing
(314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword
==========================================
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:09:03 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sharon Wright <SHARONW@MICHIE.COM>
Subject: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) -Reply
One of my best friends has a cat who always lies in
the alcove on her desktop where she stores her
keyboard when she's not using it, thus placing herself
above the keyboard while Karen is typing. If her cat
feels neglected, she will occasionally reach out a paw
and hit one of the function keys, which Karen says is
very disconcerting when she doesn't see it happen!
It's bad enough trying to correct your mistakes without
trying to figure out what you cat has done! :-)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:14:18 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sharon Wright <SHARONW@MICHIE.COM>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
-Reply
content-length: 856
My 2 cents... (probably only worth about 1.5 cents,
given that I rarely encounter this kind of problem in
legal books) :-)
I would go back to the Golden Rule of Indexing: What
would the user want? Would a user of this book feel
that you had omitted something important if you didn't
include the reference? Can you imagine someone
using the index to look up a specific letter or
reference? If so, I think that sub-subheadings might be
in order. It's all a matter of context-- if it is important
enough that someone using the book would expect to
find it in the index somewhere, I would include it.
Again, invoking my other rule of thumb that it is easier
to rip entries than to add them, I would go ahead and
do it, and if it gets too unwieldy or ridiculous, you
always have the option of ripping at a later date!
Just an opinion...
-- Sharon W.
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:33:15 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: AllWrite N <AllWriteN@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended)
My cat has her 'eating station' (an old dresser that doubles as spillover desk
space) next to my desk. The reason for this is to keep her food away from her
5 canine sisters (2 of whom love to sit in my chair)... As she attempts to
make her elevated way from food dish to our bedroom (to recharge her batteries
amongst the piles of clothing ;D ...) she leaves me 'love notes' by selecting
the keyboard rather than the desk to walk on. While some have been quite
original and 'amewsing' I'm afraid I would violate copywrite laws by
reprinting them here without her permission.
Perhaps when she stops by for lunch...
Nancy Noyes
All Write
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:50:56 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Elaine R. Firestone" <elaine@CALVAL.GSFC.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
In-Reply-To: <199801280509.AAA08232@calval-2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Janet wrote:
>Since you asked ........ in my years of indexing, I've turned into a real
>purist. When I come across this type of situation, I do *not* use the page
>range, but rather break the page reference into whatever page numbers indicate
>where the discussion is. I do not like to take the liberty of implying a 3
>page discussion (ie, pp. 14-16) when the discussion may be one paragraph at
>the bottom page 14 that continues onto the top of page 16, with an unrelated
>figure or table on page 15. I prefer to be entirely "truthful" about what is
>there in the index (no judgment intended here -- just an honest listing of
>page locators).'
Like Janet, I'm a purist about this subject, although I've never taken any
indexing courses (I was just told one day "Elaine, create an index for
these five volumes of our tech memo series"). I am very aware of what I've
objected to in the past when I've tried to use poorly constructed indexes
or indexes that use sweeping page ranges, when it turns out that the
discussions are discontinuous, either by being broken up with intervening
figures that have no bearing on the text, or by intervening text and or
section/heading numbers. Think of it in these terms: Say you're indexing
a book on the life and times of a rose (we're talking facetious here
y'all). The juicy part about its sex life begins at the bottom of page 6.
Then, there are three full page illustrations of rose root-rot and another
page of a table listing the different products that can be made from roses
(that puts us up to page 10). On page 11, the sex life of the rose
continues for one more paragraph at the top of the page. Are you, as an
indexer _really_ going to let the reader believe that there are _five_
pages in this book devoted to its sex life? That's not truthful, or even
ethical in my mind. Aesthetics aside of what the index looks like, how
about the buyer/reader of the book (for whom the index is ultimately
written)? Lots of people skim the index of a book to see how widely a
subject is covered _before_ they buy the book. (We covered this thread a
while back, too.) A person can see this entry of "sex life, 6--11" and
think "Oh boy! Five pages devoted to this subject. . . I've _got_ to buy
it!" And then imagine the buyer's disappointment when they find out that
the sum total of the actual discussion fits into two paragraphs. No thank
you!
Count me in on the "truthful" side (as Janet so aptly put it).
My $0.05.
Elaine
Elaine R. Firestone, ELS
elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov
elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:52:22 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: AllWrite N <AllWriteN@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
First, let me get in my introduction of myself as a VERY NEWBIE who is working
up to the USDA course. However, I have had about 22 years of writing/editing
/indexing experience (newsletters and technical documentation) so feel
reasonably qualified to offer an opinion. (Thank you for your attention ;D )
From the user's end of things, I would find it frustrating to find a range of
pages that included an unrelated photo or illustration, etc. I would
(stupidly and doggedly) waste time and energy either trying to figure what the
connection was, or cursing out the responsible party for wasting my time as I
searched for meaning in the surrounding text pages if I looked up the photo.
(Just did that looking up Dorothy Parker's poem about martinis in a book about
the history of martinis and found the poem and her name on a page that had no
reference to her in the index! But that's another story...)
In my own work -- be it schematics, research documentation, or user's manuals
-- I tend to be very literal in my locaters. If something is referenced by a
locater, it will be found there not around there. Unless, of course, I screw
up :( .
I would side with your client in calling it a mistake but can fully understand
why you did it. We don't all think alike or work alike.
Nancy Noyes
All Write
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:04:23 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Drew Proctor <dproctor@ONEWORLD.OWT.COM>
Subject: Re: Winter Web...do I hear bells ringing?
In-Reply-To: <199801272119.NAA03325@oneworld.owt.com>
Dave, I signed up for one of Thomas Copley's courses a couple years ago.
Although I didn't get very far with it, it was my fault not his. The
lessons were clear and arrived regularly. If you want more info, let me
know; I think one of my co-workers completed this course.
Drew Proctor
Kennewick, WA
dproctor@owt.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:03:15 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: AllWrite N <AllWriteN@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: chat: Re: Indexing -- Subversive?
Rachel,
I think your problems go WAY BEYOND your concerns on mind control through your
remote control...
Actually, you are overlooking the true source of your problem: naturally wavy
hair. All those waves are genetically engineered to provide the best
communications possible! You know that transmitters operate on radio
frequencies -- SOUND WAVES!!! WAVES TO WAVES!!! It is elementary!!!
So straighten your hair (or shave your head?) and lay the blame where it truly
belongs: ON YOUR PARENTS!
Thinking of you (and your parents),
Nancy ;)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:14:40 +0000
Reply-To: connolly@neca.com
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Dan Connolly <connolly@NECA.COM>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
Elaine R. Firestone wrote:
Are you, as an
> indexer _really_ going to let the reader believe that there are _five_
> pages in this book devoted to its sex life? That's not truthful, or even
> ethical in my mind. Aesthetics aside of what the index looks like, how
> about the buyer/reader of the book (for whom the index is ultimately
> written)? Lots of people skim the index of a book to see how widely a
> subject is covered _before_ they buy the book. (We covered this thread a
> while back, too.) A person can see this entry of "sex life, 6--11" and
> think "Oh boy! Five pages devoted to this subject. . . I've _got_ to buy
> it!" And then imagine the buyer's disappointment when they find out that
> the sum total of the actual discussion fits into two paragraphs. No thank
> you!
I sense the tide is turning in this argument, and, not being one to miss
a trend, would like to join in. I'm an indexer who has yet to index (can
that really be?), but I'd like to offer my opinion from the user end of
things. Elaine makes an excellent point here (although she seems a
little obsessed with her subject). People do make financial decisions
based on a quick skimming of a book. Both the Table of Contents and
Index can be used for this. This seems to me an important and decisive
point.
Dan
--
/////////////////////////////////////////////
Dan Connolly <connolly@neca.com>
Our life is frittered away by detail . . . Simplify, simplify.
Henry David Thoreau
/////////////////////////////////////////////
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:31:46 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Dr DCS <DrDCS@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended)
Cats are not the only ones who pull stunts like that. My dogs do that too!!
DCS
The Perfect Page
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:33:06 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
In-Reply-To: <199801280511.XAA09596@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>The thing that gives me more of a problem is a situation in which something is
>discussed again and again, as illustrative of one point and then another, on a
>succession of pages, when the discussions are discontinuous. The string of
>page locators is disconcerting in the index (to me), and I find it more
>difficult to maintain my "purist" position and list all page locators. I
>often wonder if the publishers I work for change these strings of locators to
>a range after I submit the index. Since I don't often see the published
>volumes on many of my books, I don't know. OTOH, I haven't been criticized
>for the practice of listing the string of locators or told not to do it.
>However, I must admit it does look inelegant (to me), although technically
>correct. Do any of you wish to add your comments here?
My habit has been to list the pages separately, choosing accuracy over
elegance. (So of course I also would not go the page-range route in the
other example of interrupted discussion.) However, I'm currently working on
a book for a new client, and their indexing instructions say to change such
strings to a page range. I'm doing just that, but I still don't like it.
The only alternative I can think of would be to introduce a lot of
(slightly different) sub-entries, so as to keep the individual locators.
Which would be totally ad hoc and not what the client wants.
Except for this client, though, I will continue to treat discrete bits of
discussion as discrete. Use your discretion. ;-)
Cheers,
Carol
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:19:40 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Kennedy <colfaxgp@MINN.NET>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
In-Reply-To: <199801280129.TAA18025@mail.minn.net>
At 08:24 PM 1/27/98 EST, Therese Shere wrote:
>I think it's not
>an unusual situation to run into. . . . When I
>first ran into this question with a practice index, I looked in both Nancy
>Mulvany's and Wellisch's books and could find nothing to the point. That
being
>the case, is there any accepted wisdom on this? Some of you seemed to imply
>that there was--that using a page range *isn't* appropriate if other material
>intervenes in a continuous discussion. But my gut feeling about it is that
>Kara and Lynn are right--a page range serves the reader better, just makes
>more sense, as well as being less cluttered in print.
I have to admit that I've gone both ways with this. (I'm bi-indexual?) I've
agonized over it, too. But in some books, it just seemed "right" to do it
one way, and in some, the other. I can't pin it down, but some factors are
type of book, intended audience, and general range of pages in the index.
On the last factor, for example, if I would have to give the range 111-18
to cover the material spanning the pictures, are there any similar ranges
in the index? Or is it all one- and two-page entries?
I know this is very "seat of the pants," but that's the way I do it.
Best wishes,
Carol Kennedy
colfaxgp@minn.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:58:47 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Kennedy <colfaxgp@MINN.NET>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussions with intervening illustrations
In-Reply-To: <199801281001.EAA15605@mail.minn.net>
At 04:59 AM 1/28/98 -0500, Christine wrote:
>I'm
>indexing a biography. The subject's parents are
>mentioned repeatedly throughout the text, but
>most often only in passing, in the context of
>brief visits paid to them, or letters written
>to them. This results in long strings of page
>numbers in their entries (I can't combine their
>two entries into one, as sometimes they are
>mentioned individually, most often as a couple.)
>Even a subheading, "X's letters to", will again
>consist of a long string.
I've faced similar situations. Biographies seem to be particularly sticky
on this: people mentioned so often in passing that the total of mentions
communicates something significant.
Are X's letters a subject in themselves? If so, you could use a "See also"
under the parents' listings. Or how about an entry referring to X's
relationship with parents, where you could put letters, visits, and any
more substantive discussion?
If you come up with a solution, let us know!
Best wishes,
Carol Kennedy
colfaxgp@minn.net
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:41:40 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Noeline Bridge <nbridge@PLANET.EON.NET>
Subject: Re: Continuous discussion with intervening...
This situation is where the use of the old "passim," meaning "here and
there," fitted admirably. I rarely use passim, because a) there's usually no
need to, and b) it's generally frowned upon as smacking of laziness, lacking
in intellectual rigor, incomprehensible to users, etc. But the previous
messages on this topic show indexers meticulously analyzing the continuity
or discontinuity of a given topic (no laziness here), and finding that the
other options, citing all the individual page numbers or rolling them into a
span, are both unsatisfactory in accurately informing the user about how the
information is presented.
I like the proper use of "passim" both as an indexer and a user. When I see
it in an index I respect, I know that I'll find the topic discussed here and
there over the accompanying span of pages--quite different from consulting a
page range, or finding lots of undifferentiated locators. In the latter
case, when these locators refer to pages near one another, I have to put
together for myself the information the word "passim" gives immediately.
Noeline Bridge
BRIDGEWORK
nbridge@planet.eon.net
10979 123 Street
Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1
Canada
phone 403-452-8325
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:49:10 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Susan Wilkerson <Bookindexr@AOL.COM>
Subject: Marketing - TCOf - Membership Rates
Do not hit reply without changing the E-mail address To: Bookindexr@aol.com
I am hoping to get a temporary web sit up in the next day or so. I am going to
do it myself...I have had several write to tell me they are interested in the
consortium. It is enough to encourage me but not enough to meet the setup
expenses for the permanent web site. I realize a lot of people may be leary as
to how it will work out. If it will be worth the money they invest. There is
no way of knowing at this stage. For that reason I think I am going to slow
down and go the least expensive way and gradually add the fancy gadgets. It
just don't seem logical to charge a hand full of people $200 - $300 on a
gamble.
So for now we will start out with the bare necessities and work our way up.
1. I will design the web site myself for now. I know it won't be nowhere near
as nice as Dwight's will be but it will be functional and serve the purpose.
2. Rather than getting a seperate internet service I will just use my own. I
didn't want to use mine because in order to use the 2 mg of web space alotted
for each screen name (5) I have to use the person's screen name in the URL. I
don't think it would look too professional to have TJ14M as part of the URL
address (my son's screen name)...lol.
But my 2 mgs that comes with my screen name may be enough until I start adding
the database and bulletin board...etc. However, I think I may have to change
my screen name to Freelancer or TCOF to represent the consortium and not just
indexers. That will be a hassel....:(
I will notify the list of my new E-mail address. I won't change it until the
temporary web page and chat room is ready to be uploaded.
3. I feel I really need to register a domain, however. That way I can
advertise the site without having to notify publisher later of the change when
I get the permanent site set up.
4. We will start out using the chat room that is free and just live with
ParaChat's ads. However I have found out that they will rent the chat room
half off to organizations that are non-profit. By the time we are ready to
convert it over to soliciting our own ads rather than Parachat's we would have
found out if we can apply for non-profit status.
5. We won't beable to have the bulletin board right off but any comments or
suggestions can be E-mailed to me.I felt posting them public with ignite more
discussions on suggestions. Having the bulletin board offered more services to
the membership. Any member could post announcements. I didn't want to use the
board for advertising products or services of a business (that would be taking
away our bread and butter because I still plan to solicite advertising
directly on the web site to generate the extra money needed to make the
consortium self funded but I don't see why it couldn't be used to posting
recipes, decoration ideas and such personal ads such as:
Hey.. I have a used laptop for sale $500.00 like new. Orginal cost $2000.00 2
years ago. For more info E-mail Bookindex@aol.com.
This would be an additional service and convenience for the member selling the
item and the members who may need a laptop.
There is no way of knowing if we will be able to get the ads needed for self
funding so for this first year I think it best that we have monthly and yearly
dues in addition to the lifetime membership dues. I have set the rates as
follows until we see how it is going to go and to give everyone the
opportunity to try it out to fit their budget To become a member your monthly
dues will be $10, yearly dues $60 and for those rolling in dough and feel that
this venture is worth the risk a life time membership of $200 (life time of
either the member or the consortium). No refunds will be made should you
decide you no longer need or want to be a member. For those taking out ads in
the AdPads you will be given free membership until one month after the AdPads
are shipped out. I will be sending coversheets along with the pads announcing
the web site.
The AdPad offer is also opened to those that offer services other than
indexing. If you feel the contact person for indexing would handle your
service also, you are welcomed to take out an ad. E-mail me for details.
I feel it is worth every minute of my energy and time to do this not only for
myself but for everyone else. It is hard to network with people you don't know
and that live so far away. This consortium will help to unitea it's members
and better enable them to support each other's careers and endeavors. Those of
us that have been active in the chats and marketing the AdPads have already
met and bonded a friendship that couldn't have been done any other way. I look
forward to one day meeting them in person.
E-mail me if you are interested in becoming a member or have suggestions.
All future notifications will be posted to the web site, which will be
announced once it is completed.
Do not hit reply without changing the E-mail address To: Bookindexr@aol.com
Susan Wilkerson
Bookindexr@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:04:04 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: STortora <STortora@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended)
My cat also has a fascination with my computer and she likes to rub herself on
the monitor and of course her tail ends up in my face. When I put her on the
floor she looks at me with a very put out look.
Sue
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:36:51 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended)
In-Reply-To: <c888c9f3.34cfab56@aol.com>
Bob likes to warm up on the monitor. I had a basket there for her but she
spent so much time there that she actually ended up getting very sick (the
vet says it's coincidence, but I think she cooked herself). She really
almost died. I took the basket away.
And Emma Peel knows to sit on my lap with her chin between my hands as I
type, for a free massage.
And all 7 know very well not to step on the keyboard and will go to great
lengths to avoid doing so. If a paw slips and touches the keyboard, they
tend to shake the offending foot, thus shaking off contact with the
keyboard. I have seen them do this even when I'm not at the computer.
RR
Rachel Rice
Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
Indexing, editing, proofreading
http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:18:03 EST
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: SCTopping <SCTopping@AOL.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended) -Reply
My personal assistant, Morganna, is scrupulous about keeping my work schedule.
If I don't turn off the computer promptly at 6:00 p.m. (her dinnertime), she
stretches up and taps me imperiously on the arm, mewing softly. It always
sounds like the Meow-Mix song.....
Furriedly,
Sandy
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:25:12 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Rebecca Carr <rebecca@WHITE.SC.TI.COM>
Subject: Thomas Copley's workshops
Thomas Copley's workshops are quite good IMO. I had no problems receiving
the material or corresponding with him. It was a good deal of information
for not much money.
Becky
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:52:21 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Robin Hilp <rolybear@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Spring Meeting, Pacific NW Chapter
> FEE: $20 ASI members; $25 non-ASI members. Includes a delicious
buffet
> lunch.
Louise, does the buffet lunch include lowcarb selections? I'm on a
doctor-supervised diet and can't have fruits, grains, starches, or
sugar. That basically leaves me with high-fiber green veggies and
plain or herbed meats (no thick sauces or soups).
So ... should I make other arrangements for lunch? and (can't hurt to
ask :-) ) if I have to bring a bag lunch instead of getting a buffet
plate, does it make a difference in the price? I'll be attending as a
non-ASI member.
Thank you!!
==
RolyBear, icq-1863181
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:06:11 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Robin Hilp <rolybear@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Cats (this is fluffy chat -- pun intended)
> I'm sure those of you who have cats are familiar with this behavior:
YES!!!!!
>affronted by the
> beeping which ensued when he attempted to lie full length on the
keyboard,
> and left in huff, trying unsuccessfully to pretend that he hadn't been
> there at all!
ROTFL!
==
RolyBear, icq-1863181
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com