From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 12-AUG-1997 14:54:00.90
To: CIRJA02
CC:
Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9706A"
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:32:47 +0000
From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a)
<LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu>
Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9706A"
To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 12:33:47 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: DStaub11@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Wordperfect 6.1
Thanks for the info, Rica! I tried to subscribe and found that I had to add
my email address after the subscribe line. (Should have been obvious, I
guess!)
Do Mi
>You can subscribe to it as an e-mail list by sending a message to
>
>LISTSERV@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
>
>with the message
>
>subscribe wpwin-l
>
>in the body of the message, and no signature line. (OK, you probably
>knew that.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 13:34:22 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject: Rules and specs
Dear Indexers, one and all,
Here's another one of those cases in which the "rules" of indexing will only
carry an indexer so far, if the rules conflict with the editor's
instructions:
I am indexing a book called "60 Ways that Farmers Can Protect Surface Water,"
in which each of the 60 chapters is about 4-5 pages long (total book is 300
pages). Each chapter covers a way in which surface water can be protected.
I find myself with the following entry:
manure:
application of, 178-181, 182-183, 184 (table), 185-187
instead of
manure:
application of, 178-187, 184 (table)
because the editor prefers for each chapter to be included as a separate
range of pages (in other words, there are three consecutive chapters on
aspects of the application of manure in farm fields, plus a table following
one of the chapters).
Because of the other subheadings under "manure," I do not want to divide the
pages about the application of manure from each other (one solution to
avoiding the string of locators after "application of"). I want to group the
three chapters, but the editor has instructed me to maintain the distinction
between chapters in strings of page numbers (of course, this may change if we
have some space considerations down the line).
So, my diplomatic (I hope) solution is to provide the separate locators as
instructed, but to call the editor's attention to this long string as an
example of something we might want to discuss should we need to cut some
lines from the final index.
However, this is another nagging example of a case in which someone judging
my index "by the rules" would toss the book against the wall and judge me
unfit to wear the badge of indexer! This judge might contend that I do not
know the rules of good indexing. In fact, I know the rules of good indexing,
but in this case I am willing to modify them according to the rules of good
service: provide what the client asks for as much as I can within the rules
of good indexing.
Does this "lapse" of indexing purity disqualify me as a card-carrying member
of ASI?
When it comes time to discuss certification of indexers again, I hope I can
remember to bring this up...
Signed,
A Worried Indexer
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 15:41:09 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Barbara A. Wallace" <BAWallace@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Rules and specs
In a message dated 97-06-01 13:51:45 EDT, you write:
<< Does this "lapse" of indexing purity disqualify me as a card-carrying
member
of ASI? >>
Good thing ASI doesn't issue membership cards! :D
When we work in a business culture where "the customer is ALWAYS right," how
will we define indexing "standards" for certification? I guess we could
always submit a sample of work prepared under ideal conditions, i.e., no
impossible deadline, no ridiculous style guides, and no length
restrictions....
Barb Wallace
Ironwood Indexing & Editing Services
Phoenix
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 18:40:51 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Marilyn Rowland <MarRowland@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
In a message dated 97-05-29 13:23:53 EDT, Nancy Guenther writes:
<< My question is how others who have home pages describing indexing deal
with
this issue? Do your ISPs have clear policies about when a site crosses the
line from "personal" to "commericial?
>>
Nancy,
Not all ISP's differentiate between personal and commercial pages. You might
want to check out rates and services other ISPs. I am surprised that your
site, which seems to be primarily a listing of links to other sites, would be
considered commercial. You may have to pay more, with another ISP, but maybe
not triple. I have seen many ads for ISPs lately that include commerical web
space and domain names for relatively low monthly rates ($20-30, I think).
Whether they have the service you want may be another issue.
Good luck--and thanks for all the links (esp. web page design) !
Marilyn Rowland
Rowland Indexing
http://www.marisol.com/rowland.htm
Marisol Productions
http://www.marisol.com
Mass. Chapter ASI
http://www.marisol.com/maasi/maasi.htm
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 20:25:31 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Craig Brown <LastWord@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Index archives
Not long ago there was a protracted discussion here about how we =
magnetically archive the indexes we create. Someone suggested using a =
compression utility to save space. My gratitude to whomever that was. =
I acquired such a utility and have been compressing not only the index =
in all its iterations (RTF, text, native) but all related material =
(including invoice, transmittal letters, statistics, etc.) with =
astonishing results. The last four index archives I have created are on
one floppy disk occupying approximately 15% of the space of the =
originals. Now I have the problem that I will run out of space on the =
diskette label before I run out of space on the disk. It is, however, a
problem I can live with.
The particular utility I use on my Macintosh is Stuffit from Aladdin =
Systems, but I am sure similar results are available in the Windows =
realm.
Thanks!
Craig Brown
The Last Word=
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 23:06:54 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Bad subcontract experience
I hired someone to tag a Word file from a CINDEX listing. She performed
well on a test project, but has just returned her first real work and it is
wholly unsatisfactory. She obviously never proofread her work -- she
returned the Word files without compiled indexes -- and I have spent three
hours so far patching it up.
I am certainly not going to hire her again, but should I:
A. Just pay her, keep quiet, and not hire her again.
B. Pay her and explain why I'm not hiring her again.
C. Pay her. explain, and withhold three hours pay.
D. Other
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:31:27 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Jonathan Sachs <jonathan@DNAI.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
At 11:06 PM 6/1/97 -0400, Richard Evans wrote:
>I hired someone to tag a Word file from a CINDEX listing. She performed
>well on a test project, but has just returned her first real work and it is
>wholly unsatisfactory....
>
>I am certainly not going to hire her again, but should I:
>
>A. Just pay her, keep quiet, and not hire her again.
>B. Pay her and explain why I'm not hiring her again.
>C. Pay her. explain, and withhold three hours pay.
>D. Other
A or B, depending on your feelings about how she'll take it. Definitely
don't withhold pay. For three hours at any reasonable rate, it's not worth
the potential hassle and ill will.
Jonathan Sachs
Sand River Software, Inc.
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 21:56:25 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
Dick, I'd subtract the three hours from her pay and explain what she did
wrong (or didn't do at all). Difficult as it may be for you to be specific
about the problems with her work, she'll never learn what she needs to know
if somebody doesn't tell her...and it looks as if you've been nominated.
I had a similar problem a couple of years ago, but it involved a close
friend...who, luckily, wasn't trying to make a career out of editorial
services. So I paid her and kept quiet. I wouldn't have done that if she had
been in the business--or trying to be.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 01:08:33 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
It's one in the morning and I already have two replies! You folks gotta
get a life! :-)
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 01:20:58 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Subbing the tags.
As you can see from my "Bad contracting experience" thread, I am not having
much luck finding someone to tag Word files for me. I interviewed six
people and only one was able to complete the test package I had put
together and she failed miserably on her first real job.
For those of you who do this sort of thing, some questions:
What qualifications do your sucontractors have? I am looking for:
Proficiency in tagging Word files.
Enough knowledge of the computer subject matter to be able to decide
where on the page the tags go.
Tolerance for unpredictable schedules and tight deadlines.
Are your subs local? How do you handle the transfer of materials? Do you
provide hardcopy or just the files? I don't have time (or money) to FedEx
proofs back and forth.
Do your subs simply enter tags from the Mark Index window or have they
devised some automation? I was able to tag 13 pages per hour by cutting
and pasting from an RTF file generated from CINDEX. My recent sub was
typing the entries and only achieving 7 pages per hour.
Do you know anyone who would be interested in such work? I have a client
that I am going to have to start turning down unless I can find someone to
do the tagging with reasonable efficiency. Queries to me via e-mail.
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 22:22:50 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
At 01:08 AM 6/2/97 -0400, Richard Evans wrote:
>It's one in the morning and I already have two replies! You folks gotta
>get a life! :-)
I got one...right after I e-mailed off my subject index (author index will
go out tomorrow, when I'm fresh enough to proofread it properly). It's only
the shank of the evening here...10 PM, and I'm watching the Tonys.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 02:12:50 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Subbing the tags.
I go with Sonsie's reply. I'd explain what she did wrong and dock the 3
hours. If she understands what the problem is and appears able to correct it,
you may be able to hire her again. After all, if this is a first-time
real-life situation for her, she may not be aware of all the details that you
expect. In a way, this sounds like a training experience as well as
subcontracting.
And, I don't have a life. It's after 11 pm here (CA time), and I will
probably be watching the sunrise as I finish an index to send out tomorrow.
With any luck, my life starts tomorrow. (For those of you watching the
Tony's, I know Annie's not nominated, but I just want to belt out her theme
song.)
Leslie
Frank Words Indexing and Editing
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:40:27 -0600
Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: William Meisheid <meisheid@EROLS.COM>
Organization: Sageline Publishing
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
Richard Evans wrote:
>>I am certainly not going to hire her again, but should I:
A. Just pay her, keep quiet, and not hire her again.
B. Pay her and explain why I'm not hiring her again.
C. Pay her. explain, and withhold three hours pay.
D. Other
Dick,
It depends on two things: your contract with her, and whether or not she
is local. Depending on the performance agreement in the contract you may
have to just pay her. If you don't and she is local she can easily take
you to small claims court. In addition, we all want to do the ethical
thing.
To be fair to her and give her a chance to grow in her profession, you
should not "Just pay her, keep quiet, and not hire her again." I don't
know what time constraints you were under but I would have sent the
document back to her for editing before acceptance, detailing the
problems.
--
___________________________________________________________________
William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress"
Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812
WUGNET/HYPERTEXT TECHNOLOGIES Forum - Sysop for: Style/Concepts/Etc
wgm@sageline.com CompuServe: 70713,2225
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 06:11:29 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Willa MacAllen <macallen@TIAC.NET>
Organization: MacAllen's Information Service
Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server:
binghgmb.cc.binghamton.edu: host not found)]
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------1EBA64FA2A94
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Looks like I wasn't awake when I was addressing this post!
Willa MacAllen
macallen@tiac.net
--------------1EBA64FA2A94
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Received: from mailrelay.tiac.net (mailrelay.tiac.net [199.0.65.237]) by
maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id GAA26353 for
<macallen@tiac.net>; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:52:54 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost)
by mailrelay.tiac.net (8.8.5/) with internal id GAA05056;
Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:53:47 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:53:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@mailrelay.tiac.net>
Message-Id: <199706021053.GAA05056@mailrelay.tiac.net>
To: <macallen@tiac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
boundary="GAA05056.865248827/mailrelay.tiac.net"
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: binghgmb.cc.binghamton.edu:
host not found)
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
This is a MIME-encapsulated message
--GAA05056.865248827/mailrelay.tiac.net
The original message was received at Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:53:45 -0400 (EDT)
from p1.ts26.metro.MA.tiac.com [206.119.238.98]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<INDEX-L@BINGHGMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 <INDEX-L@BINGHGMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>... Host unknown (Name server:
binghgmb.cc.binghamton.edu: host not found)
--GAA05056.865248827/mailrelay.tiac.net
Content-Type: message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; mailrelay.tiac.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; p1.ts26.metro.MA.tiac.com
Arrival-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:53:45 -0400 (EDT)
Final-Recipient: RFC822; INDEX-L@BINGHGMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.2
Remote-MTA: DNS; binghgmb.cc.binghamton.edu
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:53:47 -0400 (EDT)
--GAA05056.865248827/mailrelay.tiac.net
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Return-Path: <macallen@tiac.net>
Received: from LOCALNAME (p1.ts26.metro.MA.tiac.com [206.119.238.98])
by mailrelay.tiac.net (8.8.5/) with SMTP id GAA05051
for <INDEX-L@BINGHGMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:53:45 -0400
(EDT)
Message-ID: <33916707.7A04@tiac.net>
Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 05:11:51 -0700
From: Willa MacAllen <macallen@tiac.net>
Organization: MacAllen's Information Service
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: INDEX-L@BINGHGMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU
Subject: RE: Bad subcontract experience
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Dick:
I think you should do B: pay her and tell her why you are not hiring her
again.
If you pay her and don't tell her why you are not rehiring her, she may
continue to do poor quality work for another client. If you are working
with a contract, I think you are required to pay her the full amount
stated on the contract. The only way that someone will improve the
quality of their work would be for you to provide feedback on their
work.
I teach a class on Information Brokering in the Boston area (the formal
term for what I've been doing as a freelancer since I received my MLS
Degree in 1989).
I think freelancers should automatically check in with clients after a
they've completed a project. This step provides freelancers with an
opportunity to remind clients that they are available for work. It also
gives freelancers an opportunity to find out whether their last project
was satisfactory to the client.
BTW, I hope she isn't a member of the list.
BTW, again, it was nice to meet you in W-S. It's always nicer to know who
someone is when you read their comments on the list.
Willa MacAllen
MacAllen's Information Services
Librarian/Technical Writer
Boston
macallen@tiac.net
(....hoping to get everything done in the next 3 days and get ready to
lead an AMC trip for 4-days to Monhegan Island in Maine. The trip starts
on Thursday of this week and there is so much to do in addition to
getting 13 other trip participants to Port Clyde, Maine in time to catch
a ferry to the Island.....)
--GAA05056.865248827/mailrelay.tiac.net--
--------------1EBA64FA2A94--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:02:01 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Subbing the tags.
At 02:12 AM 6/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I go with Sonsie's reply. I'd explain what she did wrong and dock the 3
>hours. If she understands what the problem is and appears able to correct it,
>you may be able to hire her again. After all, if this is a first-time
>real-life situation for her, she may not be aware of all the details that you
>expect. In a way, this sounds like a training experience as well as
>subcontracting.
I won't be hiring her again in any event. In addition to screwing up the
job, she informed me she isn't willing to work weekends again. I'm afraid
my schedules don't allow that luxury,
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:32:38 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Barbara Stroup <indexa2z@THE-SPA.COM>
Subject: Bad subcontract experience
Dick - You didn't say if you had expressed your dissatisfaction directly to
your subcontractor. If not, give her the opportunity to make things right,
if there's time, rather than spending your time on her work. (She proved,
via your pre-test, that she can do the task.) If you accepted the work, I
think she deserves to be paid. Good luck!
Barbara
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:11:26 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Jan C. Wright" <JanCW@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Index archives
In a message dated 97-06-01 20:28:14 EDT, you write:
>
> The particular utility I use on my Macintosh is Stuffit from Aladdin =
>
> Systems, but I am sure similar results are available in the Windows =
>
> realm.
>
>
My particular love is Winzip 6.2 from Niko Mak. It's shareware for Windows 95
and earlier versions of Windows, and I use it daily. The index I am working
on currently is now 1.4+ MB in size, too big to fit on a disk anymore to back
it up, and Winzip brings it down to 340k. It replaces the old PKZip utilities
completely as a standalone application. Plus, it will unzip not only zipped
archive files, but also MIME encapsulated files, and nearly every other odd
encoding scheme there is, which is grand when people send you files your
email can't open for some reason. Their web site is http://www.winzip.com.
Jan Wright
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:57:24 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
Dick,
I would pay the person (they did the work), explain what they did wrong (so
they can learn to do better), and explain why I wouldn't hire them again (not
worth my time to do these kind of corrections). They may need the explanation
to understand where they went wrong, and I think an employer has to accept
the sometimes people will not work up to standard (and accept some element of
culpability for the kind of instructions given, for example?--I'm not
pointing the finger, just suggesting that sometimes it may be a matetr of
miscommunication, not ignorance) and you want to have a reputation for being
a good employer even when people don't work out. (Look to the long-term
effect of not paying her rather than just to the short-term solution.)
On the other hand, sometimes I hire temps instead of employees precisely
because if they are not working out after two hours, I can send them on their
way and owe nothing (that is part of the deal with the temp agency)...
simplifies the process when things aren't working out.
Barbara
(P.S. Yes, I get a mixed bag from the temp agency, but I have had some
excellent workers through that route... at least 25% of the time, which I
think is no worse than when I have hired an employee.)
(And yes, I do try to examine what I could have done better to make it better
for the employee, or otherwise I won't ever learn how to be a better boss,
something I find is harder than I thought it would be.)
Try reading "How to hire the Right Person" by Denis Cauvier, HRD Press, Inc.,
1993. ISBN 0-87425-230-X
Good luck!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:35:15 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: John Ranck <jranck@HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Book on names
I seem to remember reading on this list a reference to a book that
discussed names and how to treat them for the purposes of alphabetization,
indexing, etc. I can't find the reference and wonder if anyone can point
me in the right direction.
Many thanks.
JR
John Ranck
Harvard University Development Office
124 Mt. Auburn
3rd Floor
Cambridge, MA 02138
voice: (617) 495-9752
fax: (617) 495-0521
jranck@harvard.edu
http://www.simmons.edu/~ranck/
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:36:22 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
You know, I'd like to change one thing I wrote last night re this experience.
Sleep deprivation and answering on the fly meant I did not think my answer
out. I would explain to the sub what they did wrong, give them the
opportunity to fix it, explaining that for me to fix it would take my time
and would therefore cut into their paycheck. But I would give them the chance
to set it right. An aspiring professional would take that opportunity, as I
think we all would. And I do believe in giving second chances.
Now that we know she doesn't work weekends, we can be certain she'll never
make it as a freelance indexer.... right? ;D
Leslie
Frank Words Indexing and Editing
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:50:29 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
At 12:36 PM 6/2/97 -0400, LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote:
>You know, I'd like to change one thing I wrote last night re this experience.
>Sleep deprivation and answering on the fly meant I did not think my answer
>out. I would explain to the sub what they did wrong, give them the
>opportunity to fix it, explaining that for me to fix it would take my time
>and would therefore cut into their paycheck. But I would give them the chance
>to set it right. An aspiring professional would take that opportunity, as I
>think we all would. And I do believe in giving second chances.
I agree, Leslie, except that I know in my situation I almost never have time
to send something back for a re-do. I'd probably have ended up fixing the
problems myself, as Dick did, simply due to lack of time. That's why I
didn't even think of this alternative when I answered his query. I just
assumed he didn't have the time to spare.
>Now that we know she doesn't work weekends, we can be certain she'll never
>make it as a freelance indexer.... right? ;D
Weekends? What are those for? ;->
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 10:06:56 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
In-Reply-To: <199706020508.WAA10390@mx2.u.washington.edu>
We are not all in the same time zone, don't forget. I say A or B.
Depending upon where you live you could get yourself in a pile of legal
trouble if your subcontractor decides to make waves. If you withhold pay
you may also find yourself bad-mouthed among other contractors. I know I
am hesitant to enter into a relationship with anyone who withholds or does
not pay, even for a good reason, or who has been bankrupt. I am also
hesitant about repeat business from someone who has had to be reminded
repeatedly to pay. The slightest indication of this kind of thing, no
matter how justified, and I avoid them. So, while it sounds like you have
reason to be disappointed with the contractor, A or B (I prefer this one).
Paul D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:09:13 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Erika Millen <emillen@SAMS.MCP.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Bad subcontract experience
Leslie wrote:
<< Now that we know she doesn't work weekends, we can be certain she'll
never make it as a freelance indexer.... right? ;D >>
<grin> Or as an in-house indexer!
Erika (who was in the office on Saturday and Sunday)
Sams, Sams.net
Macmillan Publishing
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 12:30:38 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <RPERLA61@mail.caps.maine.edu>
From: "Richard S. Perla" <RPERLA61@MAIL.CAPS.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Bad subcontract experience
If she won't work weekends, she probably would also object to
indexing 'manure, tons of...' (and you thought I'd miss the sly
manure reference!
Not a chance!)
So you won't think that I'm wasting ozone with trivialties, many
thanks for the tid bits that abound, such as the win list. I hesitate to ask,
but does
anyone know of a Proofreading list? I hesitate to ask because I was
signed up to Copyedit-L for a couple of weeks, and those people
REALLY don't have a life.
Humor section: Glancing at the shopping list that my husband wrote
up, I couldn't help but notice this entry: oil, olive.
Jean Perla
Yarmouth, Maine
P.S. To the people going to Monhegan: you lucky dogs!
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 13:21:46 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork <kat%NO-SPAM%nagel@EZNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Water cooler chat: Hitting the wall
Somebody:
>> My fee increases
>> for this sort of nonsensical work, but right now even $100 an hour doesn't
>> seem like enough while I am sweating away at the keyboard and it is 95
>> degrees outside.
Jan Wright:
>Ah, does anyone else have the urge to charge what I call Annoyance fees?
>Where I feel like charging double because the client has made the project
>very difficult with arcane tool demands, or putting into the process
>constraints that just delay the project and annoy me? I don't ever do it, but
>I think about it.
Generally I don't -call- them annoyance fees, but they do show up in my
project estimates/bids for technical writing contracts (haven't felt the
need to do it for an index yet).
I generally charge more for anything involving MS Word, for example,
especially for jobs where I'm expected to do illustrations, a complex index
(I'm pretty new at this), or comply with unusually arcane formatting
requirements. I bill those jobs strictly by the hour and put a table in my
proposal showing the estimated time required to do the various project
tasks using Word vs using some other method that I think is more
appropriate (PageMaker, FrameMaker, hire a specialist, whatever).
@Kat --->Correct email address: katnagel@eznet.net <---
Kat Nagel, MasterWork Consulting Services, Rochester, NY
Technical writing / Editing / Web site development
http://members.aol.com/mwrk/
NO NEW MAIL: START WHINE/POUT SEQUENCE? <Y/N>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:34:57 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Peg Mauer <Pmauer@AOL.COM>
Subject: Indexing Letters
I'm wondering if anyone has a copy, or can tell me how to get a copy, of a
past article from the Indexer. I'm interested in getting a copy of "On
Editing and Indexing a Series of Letters" by Katherine Frost Bruner, Indexer 1
4, no. 1 (1984): 42-46.
Thank you,
Peg Mauer
Communication Link
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:45:51 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork <kat%NO-SPAM%nagel@EZNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
Bonnie Taylor:
>would
>people look down their noses at a site listed as
>"aol.members.com/bonald/indexing" or something similar to that?
I have my business web site on AOL, along with my personal one (definitely
a low priority project, right now!). I use a separate screen name for the
business site so that it isn't obviously part of my personal site.
Personal site:
http://members.aol.com/katnagel/
Business site:
http://members.aol.com/mwrk/
(MasterWork was too close to one already taken :-[ )
@Kat --->Correct email address: katnagel@eznet.net <---
Kat Nagel, MasterWork Consulting Services, Rochester, NY
Technical writing / Editing / Web site development
http://members.aol.com/mwrk/
NO NEW MAIL: START WHINE/POUT SEQUENCE? <Y/N>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:18:31 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork <kat%NO-SPAM%nagel@EZNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
Kamm Schreiner:
>Hosting a web site as a virtual
>domain is not a lot more expensive ($360/yr. or less) [snip]
>you can have many forwarded email addresses such as
>bonnie@bonnieswebsite.com etc. which all give the "perception" of a
>substantial business.
Interesting.
When I researched this with six different ISPs for my own site about 6
months ago, I got similar quotes from most of them: a minimum of $36/month
for 2 Megs of commercial web space (one ISP wanted $300/month for this!),
max. 3 graphics/page (including navigation buttons!), and a single email
account.
This basic fee did -not- include a virtual domain name. There was an
additional monthly charge for that, with an even higher charge if I wanted
a 'real' domain name (registered under my business name with Internic, not
just an alias on the ISP's server). Additional forwarded email addresses
were $10-20/month -each-, depending on the ISP.
Three of the six ISPs would allow me to maintain my own site; two charged
extra for ftp access to upload pages; one insisted on doing all the design
and maintenance. They all limited the number of hits they would
allow/month without extra charges. One ISP offered a tiny discount if I
let them put their ugly-ugly blinking ad on my home page.
To get the same features I get from AOL (5 separate email accounts, 10M web
space, unlimited hits) would have cost me a minimum of
$36/month basic fee
$40/month 4 extra email accounts
$20/month 8Meg additional web space
$10/month 500-1000 hits/month (you never know...)
----> $106/month, or
$1200/year if I paid the whole year in advance.
At the moment, the $239.40/year I'm paying to AOL looks pretty good! Of
course, I don't usually try to log on right after school, or between
7-10pm, or on Saturdays <grin>.
@Kat --->Correct email address: katnagel@eznet.net <---
Kat Nagel, MasterWork Consulting Services, Rochester, NY
Technical writing / Editing / Web site development
http://members.aol.com/mwrk/
NO NEW MAIL: START WHINE/POUT SEQUENCE? <Y/N>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:29:53 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Kat Nagel/MasterWork <kat%NO-SPAM%nagel@EZNET.NET>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
>>Now that we know she doesn't work weekends, we can be certain she'll never
>>make it as a freelance indexer.... right? ;D
>
>Weekends? What are those for? ;->
Weekends? That's when my husband disrupts my concentration by doing the
housework I don't have time to do during the week <grin>.
@Kat --->Correct email address: katnagel@eznet.net <---
Kat Nagel, MasterWork Consulting Services, Rochester, NY
Technical writing / Editing / Web site development
http://members.aol.com/mwrk/
NO NEW MAIL: START WHINE/POUT SEQUENCE? <Y/N>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:43:51 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
At 12:36 PM 6/2/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I would explain to the sub what they did wrong, give them the
>opportunity to fix it, explaining that for me to fix it would take my time
>and would therefore cut into their paycheck. But I would give them the chance
>to set it right.
The problem was that I received it at 9:00 PM Sunday and it was due first
thing Monday morning.
>Now that we know she doesn't work weekends, we can be certain she'll never
>make it as a freelance indexer.... right? ;D
Well, certainly not in my client base.
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:17:41 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" <skysoft@CCT.INFI.NET>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
Hi Kate,
I use InfiNet for my email ISP which is $9.95 per month for 10 hrs. I have
almost never exceed this and when I have it was only an hour or two.
My web site is hosted by Anawave
"http://www.anawave.com/virtualpage/virtual.html". There is a one time
setup fee for a virtual domain name and then I pay $29.95 per month. I have
unlimited email forwarding addresses (note: there is a difference between a
"forwarding address" and an "account") and I have complete control of the
web pages. The $29.95 includes 10 Meg of storage for my content. When I
tried AOL myself about 6 to 8 months ago you HAD to have a web page in
AOL's format. This may not be true anymore, but you should read AOL's
terms. I know that they reserve the right to remove your web page if it
generates too many hits and they may also have a policy against
"commercial" web pages.
Anyway, my total yearly internet related fees are about $40 * 12 = $480.
The web hosting part is $360 per year.
BTW, there are other services available from "commercial" web hosting
providers that are not available from AOL. For instance I don't believe
that you can have a CGI script in AOL. Nor can your web page hosted on AOL
allow the user to download a file using anonymous (sp?) ftp.
I have even heard of ISP's that provide absolutely FREE service. I don't
know how they do it, but it is for real. Surf the net and find out more.
I hope this has been of some help.
Kamm Schreiner
President
SKY Software
4675 York Rd #1
Manchester, MD 21102
email: kamm@sky-software.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:24:17 +0100
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Rachel Rice <rachelr@TIAC.NET>
Subject: taxes and Indexer Web pages
In-Reply-To: <199706022013.QAA20859@fh102.infi.net>
If you have a business web page via your personal ISP account, can you
deduct part or all of the monthly fees as advertising expense? If so, how
do you describe it? Just as "advertising"?
Thanks,
Rachel
Rachel Rice
Chilmark, Mass.
rachelr@tiac.net
http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/
Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
Indexing, editing, consulting
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:26:26 EDT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Suellen Kasoff <lserve@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
How do you get your husband to do that?
On Mon, 2 Jun 1997 15:29:53 -0400 Kat Nagel/MasterWork
<kat%NO-SPAM%nagel@EZNET.NET> writes:
>>>Now that we know she doesn't work weekends, we can be certain she'll
>never
>>>make it as a freelance indexer.... right? ;D
>>
>>Weekends? What are those for? ;->
>
>
>Weekends? That's when my husband disrupts my concentration by doing
>the
>housework I don't have time to do during the week <grin>.
>
>
>@Kat --->Correct email address: katnagel@eznet.net <---
>
>Kat Nagel, MasterWork Consulting Services, Rochester, NY
>Technical writing / Editing / Web site development
>http://members.aol.com/mwrk/
>
>NO NEW MAIL: START WHINE/POUT SEQUENCE? <Y/N>
>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 16:53:15 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Elizabeth Ackermann <lizacker@VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
Kat Nagel wrote:
>At the moment, the $239.40/year I'm paying to AOL looks pretty good! Of
>course, I don't usually try to log on right after school, or between
>7-10pm, or on Saturdays <grin>.
Hi there!
I'm an indexing newbie, but I surf the net regularly for my "real" job. AOL
may be popular and affordable, but remember -- if you can't log on
afternoons, evenings, or weekends, neither can your potential customers!!
(No, I don't work for the competition ;-)
I tried to look at at least three commercial sites on AOL today and either
got a "server busy" type message or waited so long for the page to load
--and I am a patient person-- that I gave up. And I'm on an ethernet
connection, not a modem. Maybe I'm spoiled with a fast connection, but
frankly I don't have the time to sit around and wait, and I won't try back
later if I can find the information I need elsewhere.
Does AOL provide you with any type of log so you can find out how many hits
your site gets at different times and how many connections were refused?
Just curious.
Good luck in cyberspace!
Liz
*******************************************************************
Liz Ackermann
Program Support Technician (WebWeaver)
Program Development Office, Research and Graduate Studies
Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
lizacker@vt.edu Phone: (540) 231-2455
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 14:47:24 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
In-Reply-To: <199706021946.MAA05270@mx2.u.washington.edu>
Was the person who performed the "bad subcontracting" per chance asked to
stay up all night and work around the clock? That is more than working on
"weekends." Sounds like there may be more to this story than meets the
eye. Paul D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 17:53:38 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Gale Rhoades <GalePR@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Embedded page counts.
In a message dated 97-05-27 23:23:41 EDT, Dick Evans wrote:
<< Let me rephrase the question. Suppose I count 100 pages and the client
counts 95. What are some possible explanations for such a discrepancy? >>
1. Font, face and size changes
2. Margin changes
3. Not counting blank (last chapter) pages
4. A miserly soul
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:42:06 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
At 02:47 PM 6/2/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Was the person who performed the "bad subcontracting" per chance asked to
>stay up all night and work around the clock? That is more than working on
>"weekends." Sounds like there may be more to this story than meets the
>eye.
Guess again. Based an an earlier test experience with this same
subcontractor, the work was estimated to take six hours. It was delivered
to her on Friday afternoon and returned to me on Sunday night. She
actually spent eight hours on it. The only one who was up all night was me.
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 18:28:01 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Larry Harrison <larryh@MILLCOMM.COM>
Subject: Bad subcontract experience
Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM> wrote:
>I hired someone to tag a Word file from a CINDEX listing. She performed
>well on a test project, but has just returned her first real work and it is
>wholly unsatisfactory. She obviously never proofread her work -- she
>returned the Word files without compiled indexes -- and I have spent three
>hours so far patching it up.
>
>I am certainly not going to hire her again, but should I:
>
>A. Just pay her, keep quiet, and not hire her again.
>B. Pay her and explain why I'm not hiring her again.
>C. Pay her. explain, and withhold three hours pay.
>D. Other
If you are certain that the precise specifications were crystal clear, and you
see NO potential of wanting to help her correct the poor practices (such as poor
accuracy and lack of proofreading) so that she could be of real help in the
future,
then you could go with B (B being more helpful to her than A).
Otherwise, how about D, cooperative problem-solving: explain how much work this
has been for you, and see what she suggests as compensation/corrective action,
with the goal of continuing the professional relationship and helping to train
her as to what is expected. If no reasonable suggestions are forthcoming,
then C.
Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) Tel: 507/280-0049
Freelance book indexing
Rochester, Minnesota
What's book indexing? ---> <http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm>
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:35:07 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
At 06:28 PM 6/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>If you are certain that the precise specifications were crystal clear
Not that I'm picking on you, Larry, but this question of what I specified
has come up before.
The errors included: spelling errors, missing entries, extraneous entries,
mis-coded tags that ended up as if they were index entries, and zero proof
reading.
Should I really have had to spell out those points?
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 21:29:41 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Jmccomp3@AOL.COM
Subject: Excellent Lirarian Resource 8,
000 Videos and CD-ROM Catalog online!!
Over 8,000 of the world's best instructional and educational
videos and CD-ROMs. Hundreds of subjects including:
Academic Studies, Art, Beauty, Biography, Boating, Business,
Childcare & Parenting, Children's Learning, Computers, Cooking,
Crafts, Documentary, Exercise, Gambling, Gardening, Health,
Home Improvements, Music, Nature, Personal Growth, Pets,
Photography, Sports, Transportation, Theology, Travel and
many more! http://www.totalmarketing.com/fourthgn
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:30:25 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Shirley K Warkentin <indexer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
If you are researching web pages, check out budgetweb.com. This site
explains various options available and lets you search for the options
you want. The prices quoted are $20/month and less for web hosting, but
that they don't seem to include internet access.
I am still looking.
Shirley Warkentin
Cornerstone Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:22:12 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Shirley K Warkentin <indexer@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Book on names
On Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:35:15 -0500 John Ranck <jranck@HARVARD.EDU> writes:
>I seem to remember reading on this list a reference to a book that
>discussed names and how to treat them for the purposes of
>alphabetization,
>indexing, etc. I can't find the reference and wonder if anyone can
>point
>me in the right direction.
>
>Many thanks.
>
>JR
>
>John Ranck
Nancy Mulvany's book, "Indexing Books," (University of Chicago Press)
has a chapter (30 pages) on indexing names. The "Chicago Manual of
Style" also has a detailed discussion on indexing names.
Shirley Warkentin
Cornerstone Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:11:27 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Jeanna Flaherty <Indeks@AOL.COM>
Subject: 4/22 ASI-STC Meeting
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.22634.emout08.mail.aol.com.865307351
Content-ID: <0_22634_865307351@emout08.mail.aol.com.11562>
Content-type: text/plain
At the end of April, the Philadelphia ASI Chapter held a joint meeting with
the Society for Technical Communication. The members of STC seemed to be
very interested in indexers' work, and the ASI members of the panel gave the
STC people a lot of good information about the challenges technical writers
face in writing their own indexes, as well as the limitations of indexing
with the indexing feature on popular word processing programs, such as Word
or WordPerfect. I am appending the file with the panel notes for the
evening, just in case any other Chapters may want to try to hold this type of
joint meeting.
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.22634.emout08.mail.aol.com.865307351
Content-ID: <0_22634_865307351@emout08.mail.aol.com.11563>
Content-type: application/octet-stream;
name="ASIPHI~1.WPD"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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--PART.BOUNDARY.0.22634.emout08.mail.aol.com.865307351--
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:17:46 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Jeanna Flaherty <Indeks@AOL.COM>
Subject: My previous post re: Philadelphia Chapter STC/ASI Joint Meeting
So sorry---I just realized that I did not sign my name to the message. I
think I was having a "senior moment!"
Jeanna Flaherty
Jeanna Flaherty
I N D E X I N G
Philadelphia, PA
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:26:26 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: My previous post re: Philadelphia Chapter STC/ASI Joint
Meeting
The attached message came across as garbage to me.
Dick Evans
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 00:34:00 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Barbara Stroup <indexa2z@THE-SPA.COM>
Subject: marketing blues
I spent some time this morning on calls to publishers I would really love to
work for. One, in a mid-west city, asked me what the average rate in this
area (New England) is. When I answered what I felt was a representative and
fairly respectable figure ($3-4/page), she said that they are able to
contract locally at $1.75/page. Have you come up against this reaction? Any
suggestions for responding?
Barbara
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:13:27 +0000
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Wolfgang Schapat <wolfgang.schapat@ERLANGEN.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
>It's one in the morning and I already have two replies! You folks gotta
>get a life! :-)
>Dick
Hi Dick,
I've no experience with indexing but with subcontracts. From the view of a
german subcontractor you have accepted the work.If you find afterwards
something bad you have to give back the work for correction. If this fails
than you can do it for your self and than cut the paid hours for the time
you needed.
Regards
WOlfgang from Germany
Wolfgang Schapat
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ulmenweg 12, D-91325 Adelsdorf, Germany;
Technical Writer on contracts (Measuring Techniques, Software);
Voice: +49-(0)9195-4039; Fax: +49-(0)9195-7982;
wolfgang.schapat@erlangen.netsurf.de; 100330.3046@compuserve.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:01:28 LCL
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Victoria Baker <vbaker@MCN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Water cooler chat: Hitting the wall
In-Reply-To: <199706021747.KAA05183@dns1.mcn.org>
Kat wrote:
>I generally charge more for anything involving MS Word, for example,
>especially for jobs where I'm expected to do illustrations, a complex index
>(I'm pretty new at this), or comply with unusually arcane formatting
>requirements. I bill those jobs strictly by the hour and put a table in my
>proposal showing the estimated time required to do the various project
>tasks using Word vs using some other method that I think is more
>appropriate (PageMaker, FrameMaker, hire a specialist, whatever).
I've missed most of this thread (my computer was shut down, happily, for a
week) but I'd like to say that I define the Annoyance factor as that place
where my efficiency and ingenuity have been hampered by requirements of the
job. My view of professionalism is that I face the Annoyance factor and
get the job done as best/fast as I can anyway. My hope as a freelancer is
that I can increase my skills such that I can then afford to turn down
Annoyance-factor work. Meanwhile, I do a fair amount of presorting through
advertising--the text of my resume and of my listing in the ASI publication
narrows down my clientele significantly.
But I believe your method, with its example of just how an Annoyance factor
might function, is a proactive technique. Thanks!
Victoria
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 05:20:33 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Willa MacAllen <macallen@TIAC.NET>
Organization: MacAllen's Information Service
Subject: Re: Was Bad subcontract experience/now proofreading list
Regarding the question of a proofreading list......I have been trying to
start one for the past 6 months, but was not able to get people willing
to volunteer some time to help with the project. As far as I know, there
is no proofreading list at this time.
And I have to stand up for members of Copyedit-L.....They are just as
supportive and helpful as are members of this list.
Willa MacAllen
MacAllen's Information Services
Librarian/Technical Writer
Boston
macallen@tiac.net
(Looking forward to a cold 4 days on Monhegan Island, since it looks as
though this will be a cold week for early June in New England. Guess
we'll need to pack long underwear. Sigh......)
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 04:59:25 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Pam Rider <prider@POWERGRID.ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: New Book on Names
On May 24, Cynthia Bertelsen sent:
Just wanted to share this with those who find foreign names to be a problem
at times in indexing:
Ingraham, Holly. People's Names: A Cross-Cultural Reference Guide to the
Proper Use of Over 40,000 Personal and Familial Names in Over 100 Cultures.
Jefferson, NC: McFarland & Company, Inc., 1997. ISBN 00786401877.
There is a wealth of information about name order, types of names, titles,
familial relationships found in naming, day of the week inserted into names
, etc. Also included are naming practices in certain historical periods.
While the book is not 100% comprehensive because of its size (613 pages), it
is a great resource for little known facts about naming practices in many
cultures. These facts would be time-consuming to track down otherwise.
There is a selective bibliography.
Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@powergrid.electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:08:55 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: JPerlman@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: marketing blues
Barbara,
You wrote:
<< ... she said that they are able to contract locally at $1.75/page. Have
you come up against this reaction? Any suggestions for responding? >>
I've had that happen many times. I would tell her that that is very low,
even for the industry. Tell her that you are sure many of your colleagues
wouldn't work for that figure, and neither would you. I would mention the
ASI Salary Survey, which will back up your claims.
This woman won't change her mind, as she obviously has a budget to work
within, and it keeps her at this rate. So I wouldn't debate the issues too
much. I just state my case and then end the conversation. [I recently heard
from a colleague who was contacted by a major scientific publishing house and
asked to do an index for what is truly a pathetic rate -- on high end
math/physics material. This editor had contacted me years ago, offering this
same low rate rate!! Amazing!! Still playing "that game." I had refused
them, at the time. He refused them at this time .... and so it goes.]
And then go back to marketing. The reasonable paying jobs are out there.
You have to market hard to find them. And get to know people ... network
like crazy ... because referrals are also important.
Sign me ... been there, done that.
Janet Perlman
Southwest Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:13:26 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Peg Mauer <Pmauer@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
With all this talk of indexer web pages, I'm wondering...has a web page ever
actually brought in business for one of you?
Just wondering, before I invest the time and money and energy and...
Peg Mauer
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:23:11 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Jan C. Wright" <JanCW@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
In a message dated 97-06-02 19:53:59 EDT, you write:
>
> Does AOL provide you with any type of log so you can find out how many
hits
> your site gets at different times and how many connections were refused?
> Just curious.
>
AOL provides only a number of hits record. And no CGI scripts. It's VERY
basic stuff only. But hey, it's nearly free.
You don't have to have your page in their format. I've had mine up there for
well over a year, and didn't use their tools at all. It's fairly easy to just
ftp your own pages up there - just ignore all their stuff and read about the
ftp tools.
Jan wright
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:04:59 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sarah H Lemaire <shl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Editing changes while indexing
In-Reply-To: <199705101411.AA29078@world.std.com>
This is a running theme for me: noticing and identifying copyediting
changes while indexing. I had one particular book last winter, for a
publisher I've worked for many times, which had about 3 pages of editing
inconsistencies and errors. The PE assured me she would take care of
them and she appreciated my pointing them out. Now that same PE has hired
me for a copyediting job (which is mostly what I do) and the example book
she sent me was that book I indexed. So I looked up some of the editing
changes and discovered that she only changed three: 2 misspelling of
authors' names in the reference list and one typos in an A head.
My reaction to this is mixed. I guess it's good that I told her about the
changes so that she could fix the glaring errors. But I'm a bit
disappointed she didn't fix the others. (I know, time and money.) But
since they were making changes anyway, it wouldn't have taken that much
longer to fix the other problems. Some of them were a bit obvious:
"...using the strategic Vision to produce..."
But the good side is that it got me a copyediting job for the next two
weeks. I was about to call her and remind her of my existence anyway. I
really prefer indexing....
Sarah Lemaire
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:16:31 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Editing changes while indexing
In a message dated 97-06-03 11:08:18 EDT, you write:
<< I guess it's good that I told her about the
changes so that she could fix the glaring errors. But I'm a bit
disappointed she didn't fix the others. (I know, time and money.) >>
Often the publishers are charged by line, not by time, so it does become a
game of what really needs to be fixed and what can be let go. It's a hard
lesson to learn when you're the one making the decisions, but it's made me
less distressed by what I see know as a freelancer:D
Leslie
Frank Words Indexing and Editing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:27:07 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: KGarcia549@AOL.COM
Subject: INDEX-L mail
Dear Charlotte, I have not received any INDEX-L e-mail in the last two weeks.
Please check and see that I am still an active INDEX-L member. Sincerely,
Kathy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:38:58 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Kari Bero <bero@CYBERSPACE.COM>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
In-Reply-To: <970603101204_-763968508@emout15.mail.aol.com>
On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 Pmauer@aol.com wrote:
> With all this talk of indexer web pages, I'm wondering...has a web page ever
> actually brought in business for one of you?
Yup, I've gotten several really fun (not to mention well-paying) projects
from folks who've found me via my web site. Not bad for a totally free
"advert". I'd have the account anyway for email, and designing &
maintaining the site is a breeze. Besides, when I see how many people
have visited my site, I see how much educating I'm doing as well. Aside
from the income it has brought, I'm thrilled that so many people are
finding out more about indexing and indexers. 8-)
-Kari
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kari J. Bero
Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673
3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@cyberspace.com
Seattle, WA 98116 http://www.cyberspace.com/~bero/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 11:39:44 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
So far, not directly (meaning no one goes to the page and instantly contacts
me for work based just on that). Since my resume is on my page, though, it
has been a help to point potential clients (those who call or email me
requesting a resume) to the page when they need a resume or other
information fast. This situation usually occurs when potential clients have
been given my name as a referral. Most of my marketing is the traditional
researching of publishers, with the books they produce mentioned in my cover
letter, all sent along with a brochure, business card, and list of references.
However, I forsee that Web pages will eventually be a strong marketing tool,
so don't give up on them yet.
At 10:13 AM 6/3/97 -0400, Peg Mauer wrote:
>With all this talk of indexer web pages, I'm wondering...has a web page ever
>actually brought in business for one of you?
>
>Just wondering, before I invest the time and money and energy and...
>
>Peg Mauer
>
>
*****************************************
Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer
cbertel@usit.net
Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html
*****************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:18:59 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: marketing blues
I live in the Midwest, and I can attest to the fact that indexers here are
charging rates competitive with the coasts. In fact, I have heard of some
publishers on the coasts offering less than publishers in the Midwest. I
don't think this is a regional issue, it is an information issue. There are
indexers working for substandard wages, and until low-paying editors run out
of indexers willing to work for low rates, they will continue to pay low
rates. The rest of us should ignore them (the editors and the indexers), in
my opinion, and we should concentrate on what we do (reasonable rates,
reasonable product quality)..... I'm not sure that someone looking for work
can change the opinion of an editor willing to pay $1.75 per page, if that is
what the press has been paying up til now. This is where local ASI chapters
can have an effect--get these editors to some ASI meetings, get them to learn
the difference between a bad index and a good index, and maybe then they will
want to hire the better indexer regardless of price!
Sttepping off the soapbox (momentarily) now...
Barbara
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 16:47:05 +0000
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Paper Pushers <teague-family@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Editing changes while indexing
At 03:04 PM 6/3/97 +0000, you wrote:
>This is a running theme for me: noticing and identifying copyediting
>changes while indexing. I had one particular book last winter, for a
>publisher I've worked for many times, which had about 3 pages of editing
>inconsistencies and errors. The PE assured me she would take care of
>them and she appreciated my pointing them out. Now that same PE has hired
>me for a copyediting job (which is mostly what I do) and the example book
>she sent me was that book I indexed. So I looked up some of the editing
>changes and discovered that she only changed three: 2 misspelling of
>authors' names in the reference list and one typos in an A head.
Hiya Sarah--
The first time I did proofreading for a major publisher, I was
told to indicate if discrepancies I found were compositor errors
(not typesetting the ms exactly) or "our" errors (author or editor
boo-boos). The publisher would not have to pay for the compositor
errors to be reset. So you're probably right--those ol' bugaboos,
time and money, may indeed determine which errors, however
egregious, are resubmitted to the compositor. After all, by the time
you have discovered them, the final pages have probably already
been gone over by both proofreader and author.
Another factor at play seems to be diminishing quality control
in general among some publishing houses. In my experience,
some PEs do not have an editorial background and a misplaced
comma or wrongly capitalized word are just not big enough a
deal to warrant the added expense of having them corrected.
They are basically copy traffickers and can't worry bout the
small editorial stuff. (Ultimately, it's the author who is responsible
for that.) And where the indexer comes in--at the very tail-end
of the book-making process--dealing with a few typos is really
not worth the headache for some houses, unless the author is
very on top of his/her project and very insistent.
When I first started indexing ('waaay back in the golden daze
before it became a corporate game for conglomerates to buy
out publishing houses...yes, when my hair was still black!), I kept
a running list of pages where I found typos or misspellings and
submitted this to the editor along with my index. These were
always received with thanks; but after realizing that a proofreader
is hired to catch these mistakes,I rarely bring them to the attention
of the PE unless it is something major--switched figure numbers,
repeated text, or obviously out-of-place material. I finally decided--
though it goes against my editorial grain to leave errors uncorrected
--that I have my hands (and gray noggin) full just with the indexing!
I'm glad pointing out errors turned into another paid job for you,
though!
Regards,
Sudsy
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:53:26 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Embedded page counts: problems
In-Reply-To: <199706022156.OAA15077@mx5.u.washington.edu>
And some programs (Word97) are superior in the way they format pages.
Paul
D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 09:54:20 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
In-Reply-To: <199706022242.PAA26171@mx4.u.washington.edu>
In which case you should chew butt (and pay). I misunderstood. Paul
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:03:05 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Bad subcontract experience
In-Reply-To: <199706020408.XAA01113@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>I am certainly not going to hire her again, but should I:
>
>A. Just pay her, keep quiet, and not hire her again.
>B. Pay her and explain why I'm not hiring her again.
>C. Pay her. explain, and withhold three hours pay.
>D. Other
I would certainly explain to her why you're not hiring her again. She might
not like hearing it, but it will give her an opportunity to clean up her
act. As for the pay, I guess I'd want to know more about your
subcontracting arrangement. Did you have a contract (either written or
oral)? How much did you spell out what was expected? Did you ask her for
the compiled indexes before putting in the 3 hrs. work? In other words, did
you give her a chance to "make good" before you went ahead and did the
clean-up yourself?
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:03:05 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Didactic use of index
In-Reply-To: <199706010408.XAA04978@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>Of course, not putting the acronym into the 'see' reference will cause Cindex
>to spit it out upon VERIFY as a non-match. Does that mean you just 'put up'
>with this reminder or is there a way to shut it off?
In the Cindex for the Mac, when you do a sort, you can tell the program to
ignore text in parens. Then when you verify cross-refs, it won't see that
situation as a non-nmatch. I assume there's some way to do the same thing
in the DOS version?
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:03:05 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Rules and specs7
In-Reply-To: <199706020408.XAA01113@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>When it comes time to discuss certification of indexers again, I hope I can
>remember to bring this up...
If and when that time comes, I assume we will be able to submit our best
work for consideration, not indexes we wrote "under protest."
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:02:59 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" <cweaver@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: marketing blues
In-Reply-To: <199706031620.JAA26866@mx2.u.washington.edu>
Back in 1992 when I started freelancing, I had a billing dispute with a
firm in NY City that was refusing to pay my bill of $2 per page (the
price agreed to by the editor in a written contract) after the publisher
decided the bill was too high. The all-time classic quote: "After all,
we can get out-of-work actors to index for us at $8 an hour!"
My response: "Then hire the actors. As a professional indexer, I don't
work for hamburger-flipping wages."
I didn't get any more work from that publisher, for obvious reasons.
But I did get my fee after letting the editor know that the next contact
would be from my attorney.
Carolyn Weaver
Bellevue, WA.
On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Barbara Cohen wrote:
> There are
> indexers working for substandard wages, and until low-paying editors run out
> of indexers willing to work for low rates, they will continue to pay low
> rates.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:38:34 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
At 03:18 PM 6/2/97 -0400, Kat Nagel/MasterWork wrote:
>When I researched this with six different ISPs for my own site about 6
>months ago, I got similar quotes from most of them: a minimum of $36/month
>for 2 Megs of commercial web space (one ISP wanted $300/month for this!),
>max. 3 graphics/page (including navigation buttons!), and a single email
>account.
[Other good stuff snipped...]
Kat, thanks so much for posting this information! While it's not specific to
anybody else's providers' it gives a really good overview of costs and so
forth. I really appreciate the information, as I am getting into web page
design for several clients (and myself), and was really looking for some
direction.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:38:35 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: marketing blues
At 12:34 AM 6/3/97 -0400, Barbara Stroup wrote:
>I spent some time this morning on calls to publishers I would really love to
>work for. One, in a mid-west city, asked me what the average rate in this
>area (New England) is. When I answered what I felt was a representative and
>fairly respectable figure ($3-4/page), she said that they are able to
>contract locally at $1.75/page. Have you come up against this reaction? Any
>suggestions for responding?
Barbara, there are only two or three "local" publishers in my area, and they
are all very tiny. I have done occasional work for one of them, and get,
yes, $1.50 a page! Of course, the indexing demands are very low for this
work and it goes very quickly, so it's a nice "filler" between more serious
jobs. The books are rarely longer than 200 pages, and the indexing
requirements are very simple, so I don't feel I'm in competition with
myself, so to speak. I would never accept that rate for anything approaching
serious indexing work.
Have you looked at the indexes produced by this company? Are they
commensurate with a $1.75 per-page rate (i.e., pretty low-level)? If so, you
might suggest that a better job is deserving of a higher fee. I might even
take one of their books and index a few sample chapters and send them your
version of the index to compare with what's already in the book. If, OTOH,
the indexes they are getting are swell, then they've found a goose or two
who lays golden eggs on demand and you can't very well compete with THAT.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:50:09 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Anne Taylor <sactayl@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>
Subject: Re: marketing blues
At 12:18 PM 6/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I live in the Midwest, and I can attest to the fact that indexers here are
>charging rates competitive with the coasts. In fact, I have heard of some
>publishers on the coasts offering less than publishers in the Midwest. I
>don't think this is a regional issue, ...
Alot of good stuff snipped...
Isn't it also possible that the indexer (sorry, lost your name) was being
lied to as part of a hardball haggling strategy?
Anne
Anne Cleester Taylor
University of Missouri-St. Louis
Thomas Jefferson Library Reference
sactayl@umslvma.umsl.edu
http://www.umsl.edu/~ataylor
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:00:00 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Erika Millen <emillen@SAMS.MCP.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: marketing blues
On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Barbara Cohen wrote:
<< There are indexers working for substandard wages, and until
low-paying editors run out of indexers willing to work for low
rates, they will continue to pay low rates. >>
and Carolyn Weaver wrote:
<< Back in 1992 when I started freelancing, I had a billing
dispute with a firm in NY City that was refusing to pay my bill of
$2 per page (the price agreed to by the editor in a written
contract) after the publisher decided the bill was too high.
The all-time classic quote: "After all, we can get out-of-work
actors to index for us at $8 an hour!"
My response: "Then hire the actors. As a professional indexer, I don't work
for hamburger-flipping wages." >>
You may also be dealing with publishers who aren't used to the differences
between in-house and freelance rates. As an in-house indexer, my base salary in
*considerably* less than what I'd earn as a freelancer... but I also have a nice
benefits package that compensates (well, somewhat <grin>) for the salary
discrepancy. You might bring that up in your salary negotiations to help
justify your rates.
What is considered substandard wages for contracted indexes is not necessarily
substandard for in-house or salaried staff. Our base salaries may average out
to lower per-hour or per-page rates, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we
are less professional than our freelance counterparts.
Erika Millen
Macmillan Publishing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 14:05:00 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Jan C. Wright" <JanCW@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
In a message dated 97-06-03 11:38:46 EDT, you write:
> I'm wondering...has a web page ever
> actually brought in business for one of you?
Good question. The only kind of cold inquiries it has actually brought me are
from strange Internet/Web-happy psuedo-businesses that have vast ideas but no
money up front. "We are going to index the entire web, can you help? We are
creating the vastest biggest collection of business addresses on the Web, and
we think you can help." Not for free, no thanks.
But, the best thing about the web page is that I can refer my potential
clients to it. It's more immediately available than my printed resume is. It
lists the names of some of my bigger clients. People can get an idea of my
services. A lot of potential (and thereafter sometimes for real) clients
check it out after talking to me, or before, if they have been referred to me
by someone else.
I have a counter on it, and it has had over 700 hits, which isn't much,
compared to the ASI web site. But the way I look at it, that's perhaps 500
people who have looked at the equivalent of a brochure on indexing services.
That's a nice idea. The other 200 are probably search engines or other
indexers or such.
Jan Wright
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:07:42 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Erika Millen <emillen@SAMS.MCP.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Rules and specs7
<< If and when that time comes [for indexer certification], I
assume we will be able to submit our best work for consideration,
not indexes we wrote "under protest." >>
Yikes. I hope so too... I have a few "under protest" and "rush job"
indexes that I'd rather not have anyone analyze too closely!
I'm afraid I missed the beginning of this thread. Would indexers
submit samples of their work to be considered for certification? Or
would there be additional requirements (course work, equivalent work
experience, certification tests)?
Sorry to have missed the details on this... I'm very interested in
possible standards for indexer certification.
Thanks,
Erika Millen
Macmillan Publishing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:21:55 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: taxes and Indexer Web pages
In-Reply-To: <199706030413.XAA00626@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>If you have a business web page via your personal ISP account, can you
>deduct part or all of the monthly fees as advertising expense? If so, how
>do you describe it? Just as "advertising"?
>
My accountant has me list my whole Net provider fee (which includes my Web
page) under "office expenses."
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:06:18 EDT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Suellen Kasoff <lserve@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rules and specs7
And what would happen to database indexers if we had to get certified?
On Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:07:42 -0500 Erika Millen <emillen@SAMS.MCP.COM>
writes:
> << If and when that time comes [for indexer certification], I
> assume we will be able to submit our best work for consideration,
> not indexes we wrote "under protest." >>
>
> Yikes. I hope so too... I have a few "under protest" and "rush job"
> indexes that I'd rather not have anyone analyze too closely!
>
> I'm afraid I missed the beginning of this thread. Would indexers
> submit samples of their work to be considered for certification? Or
> would there be additional requirements (course work, equivalent work
> experience, certification tests)?
>
> Sorry to have missed the details on this... I'm very interested in
> possible standards for indexer certification.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Erika Millen
> Macmillan Publishing
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 13:26:50 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
At 08:38 AM 6/3/97 -0700, Kari Bero wrote:
>
>Yup, I've gotten several really fun (not to mention well-paying) projects
>from folks who've found me via my web site. Not bad for a totally free
>"advert". I'd have the account anyway for email . . .
Hello Kari, et al.--
I've resurfaced recently after coming back from seeing my mom through her
last days and then taking some time off for retreat in the wilderness. How
our time flies! -- right up to the final deadline.
Sounds like you've got a sweet web page deal, Kari -- one of those free web
page services Kamm Schreiner alluded to. Is this really true? -- a web page
free with an e-mail account? If so, how did you find it?
Regards to everyone,
Michael
Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA 95945
916-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 15:50:00 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Kari Bero <bero@CYBERSPACE.COM>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
In-Reply-To: <199706032026.NAA03798@nccn.net>
Ooops, sorry to mislead anyone. No, my account isn't through a freenet.
There is a local freenet in Seattle, but it is an email account only, and
I need much more than that...
I consider the site "free", because I don't have to pay _extra_ for it.
It is just space that I paid my Internet Provider for. My account through
them is a certain amount of space on their server, and the tools accible
to me are FTP, gopher, web, email, etc. My provider knows that space on
their server, is space on their server. Whether I use it to store files
(of any kind) or images or sounds, makes no difference. Whether my site
is commercial or educational or personal also doesn't affect them. Space
is space, bits is bits. ;-) So, I have an account & store my site there. I
pay a certain rate no matter how many of the tools I use or how many hours
I'm connected. Now, if my page grew a _lot_, I'd need to purchase more
space, and pay more. But web pages (which are tiny) take up very little
space, so I don't see that happening. I use few images, so they don't hog
space either.
So, when I said "free", I meant that it costs me no more than I'd be
paying for this account anyway. Some providers take a ride on current
trends and charge more money for using popular tools. Mine doesn't.
Hope that helps clarify things. 8-)
-Kari
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kari J. Bero
Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673
3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@cyberspace.com
Seattle, WA 98116 http://www.cyberspace.com/~bero/
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
On Tue, 3 Jun 1997, Michael Brackney wrote:
> At 08:38 AM 6/3/97 -0700, Kari Bero wrote:
> >
> >Yup, I've gotten several really fun (not to mention well-paying) projects
> >from folks who've found me via my web site. Not bad for a totally free
> >"advert". I'd have the account anyway for email . . .
>
> Hello Kari, et al.--
>
> I've resurfaced recently after coming back from seeing my mom through her
> last days and then taking some time off for retreat in the wilderness. How
> our time flies! -- right up to the final deadline.
>
> Sounds like you've got a sweet web page deal, Kari -- one of those free web
> page services Kamm Schreiner alluded to. Is this really true? -- a web page
> free with an e-mail account? If so, how did you find it?
>
> Regards to everyone,
>
> Michael
>
> Brackney Indexing Service
> 134 Kathleen Way
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
> 916-272-7088
>
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:58:34 -0700
Reply-To: greenhou@erols.com
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "S. Greenhouse" <greenhou@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Indexer Certification
Databasers (or periodical databasers) are certified by the
databases/contractors we work for. If we couldn't follow the
specifications of the controlled vocabulary and term relationships, we
wouldn't be working. Here is one clear difference between BOB and
databases - that we have continuity in our work, and over the long haul
our effective indexing and consistency ensures we keep working for the
same contracts.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 17:50:34 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject: Editing charges
Re proofreading and editing while indexing, last year I charged an hourly
rate for reporting errors in and making editing recommendations for a book I
indexed. In the early stages of indexing I freely reported a number of
errors, and the editor expressed his gratitude to me for this. As the
number of errors steadily mounted, however, I realized that I needed to
charge for all the valuable proofreading and editing service I was giving.
Therefore I said this to the editor and asked him if he wanted me to
continue doing this work for him at my hourly rate. He said "Yes", and paid me.
Michael
Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA 95945
916-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 00:35:17 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Doug Williams <dougwill@KENSA.COM>
Subject: Web Sites
Nancy,
I'd say it's time to begin looking for another ISP. Sounds like your
provider is scrounging for bucks if they're bothering to look for
"commercial" sites on subscribers' home pages. What matters is the traffic
to the site and the amount of storage there, not whether your resume is
posted.
My provider would lose half of their accounts if they tried to do this.
This is a competitive business, and in my area (Chicago suburbs) I have at
least 6 providers to choose from.
If you get a new ISP you'll get a new address, which is a hassle, unless
you have your own domain (like kensa.com), which goes wherever you go.
Doug Williams
Kensa Software
>Hi,
>
>In the last 24 hours I was informed by my ISP that my "personal web page"
>was a "commercial" site & therefore I was expected to pay triple my monthly
>charges for ISP services. Since my site was primarily an annotated listing
>of links with my resume tacked on as a separate page, I couldn't justify the
>added expense.
>
>In the e-mail I received I was told I could retain a personal page if I
>removed mention of "services" for which there is a price. This morning I
>deleted the resume from my directory & removed the link to it on my home
page.
>
>My question is how others who have home pages describing indexing deal with
>this issue? Do your ISPs have clear policies about when a site crosses the
>line from "personal" to "commericial?
>
>Thanks,
>Nancy Guenther
>nanguent@chesco.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 09:53:24 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: MaryMort@AOL.COM
Subject: Possible certification requirements
Erika Millen asked, re indexer certification:
>>Would indexers
>> submit samples of their work to be considered for certification? Or
>> would there be additional requirements (course work, equivalent work
>> experience, certification tests)?
I attended the roundtable on certification at the ASI conference and this
issue came up. There's no obvious right answer but of course everyone has
ideas and opinions. There could be multiple 'routes' to certification. I'm
interested in hearing the opinions of Index-ellers. And can anyone from the
Society of Indexers tell us about their requirements for indexers to become
Registered Indexers?
Also, as mentioned, I believe there would need to be different criteria for
back-of-the-book indexes and 'closed indexes' (periodicals and databases) if
in fact, there would be certification for the latter.
I read the list in digest mode so if this discussion has already started,
sorry for being redundant!
Regards,
Mary
--
* Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com
* Lawrence, Kansas, USA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 06:07:05 +0100
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Martha Osgood <osgood@DARKWING.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Web Sites
In-Reply-To: <199706040536.WAA12074@darkwing.uoregon.edu>
On June 3, Doug wrote
>
>If you get a new ISP you'll get a new address, which is a hassle, unless
>you have your own domain (like kensa.com), which goes wherever you go.
How does one do this, Doug? I like it.
*******************************************************
Martha Osgood osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu
Back Words Indexing 541-484-1180 Eugene, OR
Indexes for books in philosophy, cultural and physical anthropology,
linguistics, religions, women's studies, and current culture.
*******************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:19:29 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: MaryMort@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Possible certification requirements - clarification
I wrote in my previous post:
>Also, as mentioned, I believe there would need to be different criteria for
back-of-the->book indexes and 'closed indexes' (periodicals and databases) if
in fact, there would >be certification for the latter.
I should have written 'open indexes' instead of closed (these are terms I
learned from Susan Klements in a class on periodical indexing.) I was
thinking of controlled vocabulary and 'closed' made sense, but actually in
Susan's terms, book indexes are 'closed' (limited to the scope of the book)
and indexes that continue over time to add new indexed material are 'open'.
Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.
Mary
--
* Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com
* Lawrence, Kansas, USA
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:55:32 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@MCN.ORG>
Subject: Re: marketing blues
Erika wrote:
>
>You may also be dealing with publishers who aren't used to the differences
>between in-house and freelance rates. As an in-house indexer, my base
salary in
>*considerably* less than what I'd earn as a freelancer... but I also have
a >nice benefits package that compensates (well, somewhat <grin>) for the
salary
>discrepancy. You might bring that up in your salary negotiations to help
>justify your rates.
The "rule of thumb" for in-house work is that benefits are worth at least
one-third on top of wages.
Elinor Lindheimer
elinorl@mcn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:22:57 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Larry Harrison <larryh@MILLCOMM.COM>
Subject: Indexer Certification
Suellen Kasoff <lserve@JUNO.COM> wrote:
>And what would happen to database indexers if we had to get certified?
a. I don't think it likely that anyone will 'have to' get certified.
b. Back-of-the-book indexing and serial indexing certification programs would
not affect database indexers, and vice versa. In other words, any rational
certification program must be specific to a specialty; parties interested
in each specialty must decide whether to put forth the time
and energy to develop and run a program.
"S. Greenhouse" <greenhou@EROLS.COM> wrote:
>Databasers (or periodical databasers) are certified by the
>databases/contractors we work for. If we couldn't follow the
>specifications of the controlled vocabulary and term relationships, we
>wouldn't be working. Here is one clear difference between BOB and
>databases - that we have continuity in our work, and over the long haul
>our effective indexing and consistency ensures we keep working for the
>same contracts.
So, database companies and indexers may or may not be interested in formal
certification, anyway.
c. Indexer certification was the topic of a lunchtime roundtable at the ASI
conference in Winston-Salem in May. The discussion brought out many issues
and alternatives in establishing certification as an ASI-sponsored
program. One thing I learned is that there are models of certification in
other professions with traits in common with indexing; these can be studied.
The obvious traditional professions of physician, lawyer, architect
and others where licensure is required are not appropriate models; voluntary
certification does not imply any kind of licensure or exclusion. This is the
reason for my comment in point a.
Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) Tel: 507/280-0049
Freelance book indexing
Rochester, Minnesota
What's book indexing? ---> <http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm>
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:14:52 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Joel S. Berson" <J.Berson@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Editing charges
Michael,
If you did the error reporting/editing recommendations while you were
indexing, how did you determine how many hours were spent on that as
distinguished from the indexing, and what kind of hourly rate did you
charge? For example, did it simply add to the time, and you charged
your usual indexing rate? Or did you increase your usual rate to
account for the extra effort? Or did you separate the time, and charge
an editing rate?
----
Michael Brackney wrote:
>
> Re proofreading and editing while indexing, last year I charged an hourly
> rate for reporting errors in and making editing recommendations for a book I
> indexed. In the early stages of indexing I freely reported a number of
> errors, and the editor expressed his gratitude to me for this. As the
> number of errors steadily mounted, however, I realized that I needed to
> charge for all the valuable proofreading and editing service I was giving.
> Therefore I said this to the editor and asked him if he wanted me to
> continue doing this work for him at my hourly rate. He said "Yes", and paid
me.
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
> 916-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:37:34 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Joel S. Berson" <J.Berson@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Indexer Web pages
My ISP (AT&T WorldNet Service) has just in the last few days offered
personal web pages for the first time. Considering other people's
comments, it sounds like a bargain ($1.95 per month), permits
"professional information" (although I have not tried to pin down
exactly what that means, such as whether you can advertise your
business), and lets you create your own Web page.
I do not know more than what follows in excepts from the announcement,
at http://home.att.net/faqs (sorry, I don't yet know how to include a
link directly in my email).
Joel
Excerpts from the announcement:
AT&T WorldNet Service Personal Web Pages will enable members to create
and publish their own Web pages on AT&T WorldNet server(s), which can
then be viewed by AT&T WorldNet members and Internet users.
A personal Web page is your presence on the Internet, and can include
personal or professional information, your interests, graphics, and
links to other Internet sites.
Members with no prior Internet experience or knowledge of HTML can
easily publish using the templates provided. Users experienced with
authoring tools may publish a Web page they have created using our FTP
upload tool.
The Personal Web Pages feature will cost you $1.95/month for 2 megabytes
of storage space on our servers and full use of the publishing tools and
functionalities offered. This monthly charge will be in addition to the
monthly fee (on the Unlimited or Hourly Pricing Plan) you are now paying
for the AT&T WorldNet ServiceSM and any 800-number or other telephone
access charges and related taxes you may be paying.
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 18:10:27 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Willa MacAllen <macallen@TIAC.NET>
Organization: MacAllen's Information Service
Subject: Re: Disability Insurance
One of my projects upon returning from my weekend is to check into
disability insurance.
I was wondering how many on the list actually have disability insurance.
If you do, do you have any advice for someone considering it for the
first time? I've gotten more familiar with health insurance plans in the
past year, but know very little about disability insurance.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Willa MacAllen
MacAllen's Information Services
Librarian/Technical Writer
Boston
macallen@tiac.net
(Packing for a cold weekend on Monhegan Island off the Maine
Coast. Now I only have to worry about having 13 others (who come from
all over New England) show up in Port Clyde, Maine, in time to purchase
tickets for the ferry to Monhegan Island. At least getting up early
tomorrow morning wont be so bad, since it'll be for fun.<g>)
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:13:50 -0800
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Andy Carroll <acarroll@WEB.NET>
Subject: Mac/Win Word indexes
Does anyone have any experience converting MS Word files with embedded
indexing tags from Mac to PC?
I've been offered an indexing job using embedded indexing codes in Word,
but the publisher works on PCs with Word97, and I'm on a Mac. I've been
expecting to have to get a recent version of Word, but if I can't easily
convert a document with index codes from my Mac to Windows, then I can
put it off for a while longer. Anyone have suggestions, comments, or
horror stories?
Andy
______________________________________________
Andy Carroll acarroll@web.net
freelance editor Vancouver, Canada
______________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 23:29:08 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Barbara Stroup <indexa2z@THE-SPA.COM>
Subject: publishing stats
Esteemed colleagues:
These come from a 6/1/97 AP story: Thirty-five percent worth of adult
hard-cover books shipped to retailers last year were returned to the
publishers for credit, up from 32 % in 1995. Bookstores are one of the few
retail pursuits in which the sellor can ask for refunds if the product isn't
a hit, transferring the loss to the publishers, who destroy the returns and
absorb the production, promotion and shipping costs. Because the superchains
keep growing, but also take advantage of this liberal return policy,
publishers are in the unattractive position of needing more product for
fewer sales. Adult hardcover sales increased only 1.8% in 1996, while the
superchains have been responsible for a glut of shelf space to fill. The
poor independent bookseller, who can cater to customer needs and who sells
80% of what they order, is being driven out of business. I know this last is
not news to anyone and that we were eloquently reminded of the independents'
plight last year by the representative from the Tattered Cover in Denver:
here in the Connecticut valley the independents who have provided us with
terrific service and wonderful browsing for decades are being driven out of
business as the monoliths creep closer. (But I confess that I find it
difficult to resist the lure of the CD department and the Starbucks
coffeebar at Barnes and Noble myself, let alone the ease of shopping that
Amazon.com provides.)
And further, "Harper Collins....folded Basic Books, its well-regarded public
affairs imprint, into its trade group, eliminating a *dozen* editorial
positions. Scholastic Inc, and Addison Wesley Longman Inc. are among the
other publishers that have had recent layoffs. Many houses are pruning the
overall number of titles they publish: Simon and Schuster...has 600 books
coming out this year, down from 650 last year. Publishers are also looking
to shave costs by using less expensive paper and eliminating full-cloth
covers." And professional level indexing???????
This all makes me a little glum tonight!
Barbara Stroup
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 02:05:37 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Larry E. Edmonson" <leditor@FRONTIERNET.NET>
Subject: publishing stats aka Hollywood risks come to publishing
Barbara Stroup mentions a 6/1/97 AP story on bookstore returns of 35% of adult
hard-cover books last year. The AP story probably had its genisis in a 5/29
Wall Street Journal item attributing some of the recent changes in
publishing primarily to the impact of book superstores. It sees the
presence of superstores as producing a "Hollywood-style approach" in which
books that don't open big are quickly abandoned. The chairman of Penguin
Group (who used to run Disney's Hollywood Pictures) is quoted as saying "You
don't build books anymore....It's [publishing] has become the equivalent of
blasting [a movie] out over 2,600 screens." Publishers are being forced to
do enormous press runs in order to be taken seriously by the superstores.
This means big publishers must focus on "event" books and shun most anything
else.
The responses I obtained when I mentioned this story on a professional
writers list were disconcerting to say the least. The most useful response
(that we are returning to the oral tradition of telling stories around a
campfire) doesn't bear close scrutiny. Pogo probably had it right when he
said something like "I have met the enemy and he/she is us." Isn't what's
happening in publishing merely a minor reflection of our society and its
"values." ["Values" placed in quotes to indicate its status as knowing the
cost of everything and the value of nothing.]
Larry Edmonson
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 01:54:06 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject: Re: Editing charges
At 06:14 PM 6/4/97 -0700, Joel S. Berson wrote:
>Michael,
>
>If you did the error reporting/editing recommendations while you were
>indexing, how did you determine how many hours were spent on that as
>distinguished from the indexing, and what kind of hourly rate did you
>charge? For example, did it simply add to the time, and you charged
>your usual indexing rate? Or did you increase your usual rate to
>account for the extra effort? Or did you separate the time, and charge
>an editing rate?
>
Joel:
I estimated my time conservatively and charged my usual indexing rate.
Michael
Brackney Indexing Service
134 Kathleen Way
Grass Valley, CA 95945
916-272-7088
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 06:55:57 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject: Re: publishing stats
Barbara and all,
On the flip side, there is an interesting article in the latest Publishers
Weekly (June 2, 1997, pp. 42-44) on university presses and the niche they
can fill in view of what is happening with trade publishers. Because they
are non-profit and are seeking more in the way of endowments/fund raising,
university presses are not always constrained by the same financial concerns
as are trade publishers. The article is based on interviews with a number
of directors of university presses. (Another issue that the article alludes
to is the fact that library acquisitions budgets are generally down, with
the impact that has on all publishers.) Basically, the university presses
see themselves as taking over in some of the areas in which the trades are
losing out, in "quality midlist fiction and nonfiction."
BTW, AAUP is having its annual meeting in Indianapolis, June 14-17, and will
also be having another meeting in Washington, DC in the fall (where
publishers, scholars, and librarians will be discussing "the fate of the
scholarly monograph, so often given up for dead."). According to the
article, apparently many of the senior directors of university presses will
be at the meetings in Indianapolis. Marketing opportunities, no, if you
live in the area?
I also want to mention that an editor at Simon & Schuster told me that they
generally have in-house copyeditors do their indexes and that this is true
of many of the bigger trade publishers.
So perhaps all is not lost.
At 11:29 PM 6/4/97 -0400, Barbara Stroup wrote:
>Esteemed colleagues:
>
>These come from a 6/1/97 AP story: Thirty-five percent worth of adult
>hard-cover books shipped to retailers last year were returned to the
>publishers for credit, up from 32 % in 1995. <big snip>
>This all makes me a little glum tonight!
>
>Barbara Stroup
>
>
*****************************************
Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer
cbertel@usit.net
Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html
*****************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:55:22 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Erika Millen <emillen@SAMS.MCP.COM>
Subject: Re: Mac/Win Word indexes
Andy Carroll writes:
<< Does anyone have any experience converting MS Word files with embedded
indexing tags from Mac to PC?
I've been offered an indexing job using embedded indexing codes in Word,
but the publisher works on PCs with Word97, and I'm on a Mac. I've been
expecting to have to get a recent version of Word, but if I can't easily
convert a document with index codes from my Mac to Windows, then I can
put it off for a while longer. Anyone have suggestions, comments, or
horror stories? >>
Do you have a PowerMac? If you do, then it's no problem at all... just
use a PC-formatted disk, save as the default Word Document option (do
*NOT* save as "Word x for Windows" -- that will strip out the indexing
codes!), and the file will open right up on a PC. Word is virtually
identical on PCs and Macs, so the codes transfer with no problems at
all. We use embedded indexing codes in Word, and I know we have one
freelancer who indexes on Word for the Mac and then e-mails us the
completed chapters.
If you have an older Mac (not a PowerMac), then I'm not sure how well
the codes transfer. If you want, e-mail me a test file with a handful
of test codes and I'll try opening it on my PC. I'm still using Word
6/Word 7, though, so I can't help much with the Word97 compatibility
issues.
Erika Millen
Macmillan Publishing
emillen@sams.mcp.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:51:56 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Linda Herr Hallinger <index@TOGETHER.NET>
Organization: Herr's Indexing Service
Subject: New book on names
I believe that the correct ISBN for the Ingraham book is 0786401877 (it
does not begin with 00). Also, when I tried to order it locally through
2 different stores, they both told me I would have to order it directly
from the publisher. The phone number for McFarland is 800-253-2187. I
believe the book costs about $65.00 (plus shipping). I did order it, but
have not yet received it.
Linda
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:03:08 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Erika Millen <emillen@SAMS.MCP.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: publishing stats
<< I also want to mention that an editor at Simon & Schuster told
me that they generally have in-house copyeditors do their indexes
and that this is true of many of the bigger trade publishers. >>
I don't know about Simon & Schuster in New York, but here in Indy
the indexes are prepared by in-house indexers or freelanced out.
Production editors and proofreaders then read them for
content/style... our copy editors never see the final index.
Erika Millen
Macmillan Publishing, Indianapolis
(a division of Simon & Schuster)
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:12:31 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: WordenDex@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Indexer Certification
Whether back-of-book or database, indexer certification would be a great
continuing education program primarily of interest to the indexer. I don't
think clients in the US are that particular about whom they hire as
freelancers. Bottom-line budgets seem to be the controlling factor, and
getting the most/best work for as little payout as possible is the hardball
game. Corporate recruitment may be another matter, where "pieces of paper" at
least let potential job candidates get their big toe in the door. Because
experience often translates into higher entry salaries, the bottom line
favors someone willing to learn as they go. Willingness to gain certification
might be the prime hiring factor. Larry Harrison's comment about
certification specificity applies equally to BOB and DB indexers.
Diane Worden
Kalamazoo, Mich.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:32:24 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Jean A. Thompson" <THOMPSON@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Job Opportunity for a Database Indexer in NYC
Dear Fellow Index-Lers:
Here's a job listing that appeared on a library jobs listserv. I
don't recall seeing it posted here, so I am forwarding it to our list.
Hope this doesn't violate Netiquette.
Jean Thompson
****************Forwarded Message Follows****************************
From: IN%"LIBJOBS@INFOSERV.NLC-BNC.CA" "Library and Information Science jobs
mailing list" 4-JUN-1997 15:48:30.45
To: IN%"LIBJOBS@INFOSERV.NLC-BNC.CA"
CC:
Subj: POSITION AVAILABLE
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:57:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Debra Brown-Spruil <dbs@PAIS.ORG>
Subject: POSITION AVAILABLE
Sender: Library and Information Science jobs mailing list
<LIBJOBS@INFOSERV.NLC-BNC.CA>
This position has been cross-posted to several lists. Please forgive the
duplication.
PAIS--Public Affairs Information Service, Inc., publishers of bibliographic
and full-text databases, is seeking to fill an indexer/abstracter position.
This position requires experience with indexing, abstracting, editing, and
database searching. Knowledge of word-processing is a plus. The applicant
should be fluent in English with language skills in either Spanish, French,
or German.
An MLS degree is required with background in the social sciences, political
science, or international affairs. Beginning salary $30,000
PAIS is a not-for-profit educational corporation with excellent health and
fringe benefits. PAIS is an equal opportunity employer. The PAIS office is
located in Manhattan.
Resumes should be forwarded to: C. Korvin, Editor, PAIS, 521 W. 43rd Street,
New York, NY 10036-4396 or faxed to 212-643-2848
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:42:05 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sue Wurster <swurster@ERICIR.SYR.EDU>
Subject: Rates for Book Indexing
Hi,
Could anyone tell me what the going rate is for indexing a 200-300 page
book?
What details are important to know when estimating the cost for indexing,
a book?
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:47:13 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: WordenDex@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: New book on names
Linda,
My local bookstore ordered Ingraham's book for me, at the price you quoted.
Such ordering may depend on the store's policy rather than the publisher's.
Going beyond their book jobber could cost the customer extra (a "special"
order) or be a non-supported service of the store. Cultivating local shops vs
national superstores will help all of us retain value. The Hollywood approach
to publishing/distributing focuses on cost, not value.
Diane Worden
Kalamazoo, Mich.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 09:53:33 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Anne Taylor <sactayl@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>
Subject: Re: publishing stats aka Hollywood risks come to publishing
At 02:05 AM 6/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Barbara Stroup mentions a 6/1/97 AP story on bookstore returns of 35% of
adult
>hard-cover books last year...
Snippage...
>The responses I obtained when I mentioned this story on a professional
>writers list were disconcerting to say the least. The most useful response
>(that we are returning to the oral tradition of telling stories around a
>campfire) doesn't bear close scrutiny. Pogo probably had it right when he
>said something like "I have met the enemy and he/she is us." Isn't what's
>happening in publishing merely a minor reflection of our society and its
>"values." ["Values" placed in quotes to indicate its status as knowing the
>cost of everything and the value of nothing.]
>
>Larry Edmonson
I still work in the library trenches and earlier this week, a cow-orker
passed around the "WSJ" article in our department. Here in metro St.
Louis, Paul's Books, one of the best indies in town, shut down not too long
ago... And not too long after a huge, honking Barnes and Noble opened up
off of Ladue Road. I used to like the B&N on Fifth Avenue when I lived in
New York. This one, however, I find devoid of charm or competent help--and
I'd just as soon buy my cuppa coffee at the 'Bread Company'.
All consumer griping aside, this trend towards superstores full of vacuous
best sellers, when added to the devastation of the US Gov't Printing
Office, is beginning to look ominous. Apologists say that desktop
publishing and the 'Net will fill in our gaps. How many around here agree
with this?
Anne
Anne Cleester Taylor
University of Missouri-St. Louis
Thomas Jefferson Library Reference
sactayl@umslvma.umsl.edu
http://www.umsl.edu/~ataylor
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:57:34 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Diane L Morey <dmorey@GPO.GOV>
Subject: Re: Job Opportunity for a Database Indexer in NYC
Jean,
Do you have the subscription info for that LIBJOBS list handy? TIA
Lee Morey dmorey@gpo.gov
Electronic Transition Staff, U.S. G.P.O.
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:26:40 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sarah H Lemaire <shl@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject: Re: Rates for Book Indexing
In-Reply-To: <199706051443.AA23525@world.std.com>
On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, Sue Wurster wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Could anyone tell me what the going rate is for indexing a 200-300 page
> book?
>
> What details are important to know when estimating the cost for indexing,
> a book?
>
$3-$4 per page, although some publishers only pay $2.50/page. I wouldn't
accept less than $2.50/per page unless you're just starting out and
looking for experience.
Sarah Lemaire
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:27:13 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject: Re: New book on names
I ordered it from amazon.com.
At 08:51 AM 6/5/97 -0700, Linda Herr Hallinger wrote:
>I believe that the correct ISBN for the Ingraham book is 0786401877 (it
>does not begin with 00). Also, when I tried to order it locally through
>2 different stores, they both told me I would have to order it directly
>from the publisher. The phone number for McFarland is 800-253-2187. I
>believe the book costs about $65.00 (plus shipping). I did order it, but
>have not yet received it.
>
> Linda
>
>
*****************************************
Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer
cbertel@usit.net
Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html
*****************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:35:39 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Jan C. Wright" <JanCW@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Mac/Win Word indexes
In a message dated 97-06-05 01:19:44 EDT, you write:
>
> I've been offered an indexing job using embedded indexing codes in Word,
> but the publisher works on PCs with Word97, and I'm on a Mac. I've been
> expecting to have to get a recent version of Word, but if I can't easily
> convert a document with index codes from my Mac to Windows, then I can
> put it off for a while longer. Anyone have suggestions, comments, or
> horror stories?
>
You should be able to convert fine from Word97 to Mac Word version 6.0 and
above. Prior to 6.0, Word uses a different indexing system on the Mac, and
you would have to get a special conversion driver to do it. Have the
publisher save the files as Mac Word 6.0. Now when they do that, they may
want to test and reopen the files to make sure they have not lost any page
layout stuff, such as anchored text moving elsewhere or tables being messed
up. Far as I know, it should be okay, but a test would be in order. The
easiest way is to have them send you a file saved as as Mac Word, you open
it, put in some index entries, and save it as Word for windows. You send it
back and have them see if the file looks okay to them.
PS, save your Mac 5.1 or earlier - I think it is more robust and crashes less
than the later versions.
Jan Wright
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:45:40 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "\"<John Dooley>\" <jdooley@" <novatics.com@ZNS.NET>
Subject: PC index software
In-Reply-To: <199706051536.LAA16078@zns.net>
Does anyone know what the most popular/functional index software is for
the PC/UNIX.
Thanks,
John Dooley
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:20:08 +0000
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <jimw@mail.transport.com>
From: Jim Wilson <jimw@MAIL.TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: Re: Database Indexer
Hello all;
As I am a newbie to the indexing world, I'm going to toss out my
"free coupon" allowing a question that you vets may see as 'odd' ?
I see much reference to database indexing vs. book indexing. Can
someone point me to a site/document/report(?) discussing differences
and/or similarities in these types of indexing?
I appreciate your assistance,
Jim
Jim Wilson, jimw@transport.com
Remember, two wrongs don't make a right...
but three lefts do!
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:53:40 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Maxine M. Okazaki" <mokazaki@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Database Indexer
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone. I'm also a newbie interested in database indexing. Could =
you please post your responses to the list? Also, while we are on the =
topic of database indexing, can anyone recommend how I could learn =
medical database indexing. I've completed the USDA Basic Indexing =
Course. Thanks.
Maxine M. Okazaki
mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu
----------
From: Jim Wilson[SMTP:jimw@MAIL.TRANSPORT.COM]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 1997 4:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
Subject: Re: Database Indexer
Hello all;
As I am a newbie to the indexing world, I'm going to toss out my
"free coupon" allowing a question that you vets may see as 'odd' ?
I see much reference to database indexing vs. book indexing. Can
someone point me to a site/document/report(?) discussing differences
and/or similarities in these types of indexing?
I appreciate your assistance,
Jim
Jim Wilson, jimw@transport.com
Remember, two wrongs don't make a right...
but three lefts do!
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:49:48 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mac/Win Word indexes
In-Reply-To: <199706050313.UAA20033@mx5.u.washington.edu>
When I converted Mac Word index entries to PC Word index entries I spent
weeks cleaning up the problems. Maybe the converters they use now (this
was 5 years ago) are better but I have found problems even going from Word
6.0 to other PC Word versions (2.0 for Windows), so I doubt it. Charge by
the hour on this one. Paul D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:29:56 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: William Perez <william_perez@IACNET.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: Database Indexer
Hello Maxine and hello Index-L:
As a database indexer, I would say the best way to learn is
by doing it. Having basic indexing skills is an excellent
start. For most databases, the indexer applies a controlled
vocabulary of headings and subdivisions to periodical
articles. As an indexer, you would need to learn both the
vocabulary and the subject matter (in your case, medical
journals).
Some databases also require abstracts, so you may need to
brush up on your writing skills.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Database Indexer
Author: "Maxine M. Okazaki" <mokazaki@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU> at SMTPGATE
Date: 6/5/97 12:53 PM
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone. I'm also a newbie interested in database indexing. Could =
you please post your responses to the list? Also, while we are on the =
topic of database indexing, can anyone recommend how I could learn =
medical database indexing. I've completed the USDA Basic Indexing =
Course. Thanks.
Maxine M. Okazaki
mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu
----------
From: Jim Wilson[SMTP:jimw@MAIL.TRANSPORT.COM]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 1997 4:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
Subject: Re: Database Indexer
Hello all;
As I am a newbie to the indexing world, I'm going to toss out my
"free coupon" allowing a question that you vets may see as 'odd' ?
I see much reference to database indexing vs. book indexing. Can
someone point me to a site/document/report(?) discussing differences
and/or similarities in these types of indexing?
I appreciate your assistance,
Jim
Jim Wilson, jimw@transport.com
Remember, two wrongs don't make a right...
but three lefts do!
------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0--
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 14:22:03 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: KArrigoni2@AOL.COM
Subject: Mac/Win Word indexes
Andy wrote:
>
>Does anyone have any experience converting MS Word files with embedded
>indexing tags from Mac to PC?
Hi Andy,
I've had good luck translating Mac Word 5.1 files into PC Word files
using MacLinkPlus translation software (for formatting and graphics). I
haven't tried the indexing translation capabilities of MacLinkPlus
because I haven't needed to create any indexes (yet) other than
stand-alone, embedded Word (Mac), or Frame (which I've found to be truly
cross-platform).
I also recently upgraded to Word 6.1 for the Mac, and it seems to have
really good cross-platform capabilities--although the method of doing
embedded indexing is completely different in versions 5.1 and 6. I
haven't had the time to learn the version 6 method yet, so I just create
the embedded indexes in Word 5.1 and use MacLinkPlus to convert the files
to Word 6 for the Mac if I have to go to the newer version for the
customer. I would think that you could do the same to convert to Word
for the PC. You might want to check out their web site at:
http://www.dataviz.com/ for more info.
Good luck!
Karin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karin Arrigoni
Write Away
Editing and Indexing Services
E-Mail: KArrigoni2@aol.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 13:34:20 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Erika Millen <emillen@SAMS.MCP.COM>
Subject: Mac/Win Word index test
I have both a Mac and a PC here at work, so I put together a
test file this morning by coding a paragraph in Word for Mac (on
a PowerMac). I saved as a Word Document (the default option),
and copied the file to a PC-formatted disk. It opened just fine
on my PC, and I was able to compile the codes without any
problem. Of course, that'll only work if you're using a
PowerMac that can read PC-formatted disks.
Important stuff...
* Be sure to save the file with a PC-compatible filename,
and use the .doc filename extension (for example,
index.doc).
* DON'T save in Word for Windows format. This will strip out
your indexing codes! Use the Word Document option -- it's
the Word for Mac default option.
* DON'T try to export into RTF. It will reformat the hidden
indexing fields. Word embedded codes have the format
{XE "index entry" }
Exporting into RTF will reformat them as
{xe "index entry"}
which can create problem when you go to compile.
Hope this helps!
Erika
Macmillan Publishing
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:27:55 -0700
Reply-To: greenhou@erols.com
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "S. Greenhouse" <greenhou@EROLS.COM>
Subject: Re: Database Indexer
There is no web site for database indexing per se. There is a page at
the ASI website (http://www.well.com/user/asi/index.html) that describes
database indexing, however it mainly addresses the computer software
aspect (the software has the capacity to generate a concordence if
database fields have been designed correctly). The only place I know of
that teaches MeSH (medical subject headings, the indexing style for
National Library of Medicine, MEDLINE and Index Medicus) is the NLM
itself. The only way NLM will train you is if you are hired by one of
their subcontractors. Other databases train you in-house on their
thesauri and styles.
As for a document describing the differences, on ASI's website there is
a link to Glenda Browne's article, which describes database indexing
well. Also, through the ASI site, you can access the archives for
Index-L, which is searchable. There have been threads in the last year
discussing the database and back-of-the-book (BOB) differences.
I'm a medical database indexer, or a periodical indexer for databases.
I'm having a bit of an identity crisis about this. The ASI Special
Interest Group for Science and Medicine is having a discussion about
this very topic. When we've completed our brochure, perhaps one of us
can post it here. Basically, database indexers worked from a controlled
vocabulary and the index is open (is added to constantly as new
information is published), while BOB indexing is closed, limited to the
author's depth and terminology. BOB indexes map out the information
within a text and provide pointers into the text. Database indexes are
like funnels, linking lots of different sources with common topics.
Consistency across time is the main problem with databases.
I can natter on for hours, as Index-l'ers well know. I'll be happy to
bend your eyes with more, should you wish.
Shelley Greenhouse
greenhou@erols.com
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 16:30:10 EDT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Suellen Kasoff <lserve@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Database Indexer
I, too, am a medical database indexer. Where would you suggest getting a
job "doing it."? I also write abstracts. Do you know of any open medical
freelance database positions? I don't mean to flame you. I know you mean
well. But I find your advice awfully vague. Suellen G. Kasoff
On Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:29:56 -0700 William Perez
<william_perez@IACNET.COM> writes:
> Hello Maxine and hello Index-L:
>
> As a database indexer, I would say the best way to learn is
> by doing it. Having basic indexing skills is an excellent
> start. For most databases, the indexer applies a controlled
> vocabulary of headings and subdivisions to periodical
> articles. As an indexer, you would need to learn both the
> vocabulary and the subject matter (in your case, medical
> journals).
>
> Some databases also require abstracts, so you may need to
> brush up on your writing skills.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Database Indexer
>Author: "Maxine M. Okazaki" <mokazaki@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU> at SMTPGATE
>Date: 6/5/97 12:53 PM
>
>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Hi everyone. I'm also a newbie interested in database indexing.
>Could =
>you please post your responses to the list? Also, while we are on the
>=
>topic of database indexing, can anyone recommend how I could learn =
>medical database indexing. I've completed the USDA Basic Indexing =
>Course. Thanks.
>
>Maxine M. Okazaki
>mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu
>
>----------
>From: Jim Wilson[SMTP:jimw@MAIL.TRANSPORT.COM]
>Sent: Thursday, June 05, 1997 4:20 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
>Subject: Re: Database Indexer
>
>Hello all;
>
>As I am a newbie to the indexing world, I'm going to toss out my
>"free coupon" allowing a question that you vets may see as 'odd' ?
>
>I see much reference to database indexing vs. book indexing. Can
>someone point me to a site/document/report(?) discussing differences
>and/or similarities in these types of indexing?
>
>I appreciate your assistance,
>
>Jim
>Jim Wilson, jimw@transport.com
>Remember, two wrongs don't make a right...
>but three lefts do!
>
>
>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0
>Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>
>eJ8+IioQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG
>AFQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFoAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd
>AQ9UAgAAAABJbmRleGVyJ3MgRGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBHcm91cABTTVRQAElOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5D
>Qy5CSU5HSEFNVE9OLkVEVQAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAiAAAASU5ERVgt
>TEBCSU5HVk1CLkNDLkJJTkdIQU1UT04uRURVAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHQAA
>ACdJbmRleGVyJ3MgRGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBHcm91cCcAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAnAAAAU01UUDpJTkRFWC1M
>QEJJTkdWTUIuQ0MuQklOR0hBTVRPTi5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAA
>AAAD8T4BCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEAFQAAAFJFOiBEYXRh
>YmFzZSBJbmRleGVyAPUGAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcGAAUADAA1ACgABABMAQEggAMADgAAAM0HBgAFAAwA
>MAAfAAQAPgEBCYABACEAAABCOTdBNDVFMEEwREREMDExOUJEQTAwMjBBRkQzMjQ1RgBBBwEDkAYA
>bAUAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBA4SgF0XG8AR4AcAAB
>AAAAFQAAAFJFOiBEYXRhYmFzZSBJbmRleGVyAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8cdEFKOBFerrdoBHQ
>m9oAIK/TJF8AAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAYAAAAbW9rYXpha2lAYWNwdWIu
>ZHVrZS5lZHUAAwAGEBftQn4DAAcQCgMAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhJRVZFUllPTkVJTUFMU09BTkVX
>QklFSU5URVJFU1RFRElOREFUQUJBU0VJTkRFWElOR0NPVUxEWU9VUExFQVNFUE9TVFlPVVJSRVNQ
>T05TRVNUT1RIRUxJU1Q/QUxTTyxXSEkAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADwAwAA7AMAAKMGAABMWkZ1zHLCEP8A
>CgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMC
>gH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFEFC/JjAEAgSGkgZQp2BJB5AiBlLiAg
>kEknbSAHQHNvHADSIBuAd2IIkCALgBPQixYQE8FkHOEgZGEBka5hEbAc4Q2weAuAZxuhTQhRbB2A
>G2B1IAtQZfkeInBvE8AfYgXAHTEgIEsAgAeRdBxAdGgc0GwpBAB0PxuwQRwhLCDsd2gDEBzQdxzQ
>CsAc0EcCICGDIWBwaWMjYGb1Hc9nIoBjA5EAcBtiILGNBaBtB4AecCBobwfgvkklkB8jH8EEoQeA
>ZCQQvwdAJG8e0hvQGzAnQW0fsQMdYiGSVVNEQSBCex4gJBFJHnUfAhGhG6FUYRGAbmtzLgqFCoVN
>FmEeoRzQTRugT2thcHpha2kKhQRgLtRAAQDQcHViLmR1azsbkAmAdS1MCvQh0DE4gjAC0WktMTQ0
>DfDnDNAy8wtZMTYKoANgE9D6YwVALTUXCoczywwwNJY6RgNhOjYeNJYMgiBKGQdwIFcDEBwwbltT
>IE1UUDpqB3B3QABNQUlMLlRSQQBOU1BPUlQuQ/hPTV01vzbNBmACMDf/LzkLLNAsYSiQeSKASnUJ
>JiEwNSKAMTk5N9ggNDoB0BSwTTxfNs2sVG8+nzkLTR8wdAUg/yLRJlEFIAiQAjAEICRBIdKBG8BO
>REVYLUxCbzs9bjBgajTRRI85C1JlfUsARCimK7MEkDEfMiMzjjYzlxpFNJZIZWwVoLccAQJwLUxB
>BCAnMGEb8f8cdiFlHmYikAWwH0AigBvSvGdvLAIhYiAwR4F1BUD0bXkKhSIDUAngJ0Ig8d4iUXIn
>ACwCHGBxClATwH5pI3MooB9jGzBHcQDAeS4gEbAjEQQgJwRwZCecID8tTCcwWlJtdRFw5SCxZh0h
>bmNTkyifWbD9LSAgBuAvsB5bAHAKhRww/weAJhIgIBzxKAEhUhxgAJBBE9AvZG9jdSahdI4vFhAg
>IAAgKD8pG7D7KDAE8HUEECwCKDAN0Fz0ZnMKhQBwZC8FsQCQbf8DEArAYgAIkAQgHaEhkR4xeHR5
>cAeRJEEeZlsvYf5wE1BHASigHNAgcx4gAJD3E8AAcF0wLC1MOdFraDoFsyKAOtN0cgBxYvIuJnG/
>CoVM4AeABtAEkCKAdFSwnyKQA2AZEAQgYkBuJ1Zhxy8AIxEgsGlnaG4AcTD9CoViVlEhkFcyH8AB
>gG/yfiEtTE6fT680pQqFFTEAAXcgAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAQAAAEAABzAgSOFM0HG8AUAACDAgSOFM
>0HG8AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAASYk=
>
>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC71AF.7ED90AA0--
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 03:16:10 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM
Subject: contractor's questionnaires
I just got a questionnaire from one of my clients that brings back memories
of an earlier thread. The "questionnaire" came certified mail (in fact, I had
to sign for it twice!), it asks for a list of 3-5 current clients not
including itself, copies of imprinted business cards and letterhead, and
brochures or other advertising. Yikes!
I really only work part time, so I don't have a huge client list. I was just
getting ready to make up new cards/brochures/letterhead because I just moved
(yes, again!), but I was going to use a desktop program and my laser printer.
Now I'm thinking I need to order imprinted cards just to keep the IRS off the
backs of my clients. Does anyone have any suggestions/gripes to
share/experiences to share/anything else to say?
Thanks
Leslie
Frank Words Indexing and Editing
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 00:07:39 LCL
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Victoria Baker <vbaker@MCN.ORG>
Subject: botanical names
I'm indexing a book on herbalism in which the genus/species names as well
as common names are used. I've been asked to cross reference from the g/s
to the common names.
My question: Is the following correct, in a case in which two g/s names
are declared to have the same medical value (and common name)?
^Achillea lanulosa^. ^see^ Yarrow
^Achillea millefolium^. ^see^ Yarrow
...
Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa, Achillea millefolium^), 65-68
Am I overindexing here? Is there any way to abbreviate any of these terms?
Should I just have a cross reference from ^Achillea^ to Yarrow?
Space is no object.
thanks,
Victoria
vbaker@mcn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:14:33 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Susan Healy <welshone@FREENET.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: botanical names
In-Reply-To: <199706070755.DAA28299@fn4.freenet.tlh.fl.us>
Victoria,
If the two species of Achillea are discussed collectively or in a parallel
fashion, then x-ref to Yarrow is most appropriate. To avoid overindexing
at the "Achillea" location you might use an entry such as:
^Achilles^, various species. ^see^ Yarrow
You also need to look at the intended reader audience of this book. Will
inclusion of each species name in the index be of importance?
Susan Healy
Florida Legislature
Div. of Statutory Revision
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Victoria Baker wrote:
> I'm indexing a book on herbalism in which the genus/species names as well
> as common names are used. I've been asked to cross reference from the g/s
> to the common names.
>
> My question: Is the following correct, in a case in which two g/s names
> are declared to have the same medical value (and common name)?
>
> ^Achillea lanulosa^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ^Achillea millefolium^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ...
> Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa, Achillea millefolium^), 65-68
>
> Am I overindexing here? Is there any way to abbreviate any of these terms?
> Should I just have a cross reference from ^Achillea^ to Yarrow?
> Space is no object.
>
> thanks,
> Victoria
>
> vbaker@mcn.org
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:46:16 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Jean A. Thompson" <THOMPSON@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: LIBJOBS - Library and Information Science Jobs
Dear Lee and other Index-Lers who may be interested,
The LIBJOBS listserv is provided by the International Federation of
Library Associations and Institutions (IFLA). It started, as far as I
know, about two years ago. Here's how to subscribe:
To subscribe to the list and receive job ads
Send the following to:
LISTSERV@INFOSERV.NLC-BNC.CA
in the body of the message:
SUBSCRIBE LIBJOBS <first name> <last name>
Jobs can also be posted to LIBJOBS@INFOSERV.NLC-BNC.CA
It is a moderated list and submissions are archived for a one-month period.
********************************************************************************
Jean A. Thompson PHONE: (518) 442-3628
Monographic Cataloger FAX: (518) 442-3630
University at Albany/SUNY
University Library, B-35 E-MAIL: thompson@cnsvax.albany.edu
1400 Washington Avenue
Albany, NY 12222
Jean Thompson
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:51:02 -0500
Reply-To: davidaus@indiana.edu
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: david robert austen <davidaus@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: contractor's questionnaires
Two suggestions immediately come to mind.
Use a PO Box as a permament address. If you're in a big city, get one
right downtown because regardless of your actual suburban residential
address you'll probably still be going downtown once a week or so. Tbat
could go on your business card. If need be, add a street address marked
: "For Couriers Only"
2. You can get nice Avery laser business card laser printer stock that
will allow you to print as few as ONE business card to satisfy a client
before you move to your new address. I can't imagine that "imprinted"
(from an offset print shop?) business card would make a difference.
3. Are you sure this client is needing your help to keep the IRS off
his/her back? Maybe they just want to see how big and substantial and
successful your operation is.
Best wishes,
David
"It's a jungle in there." (An anonymous PC technician.)
- - - - - - - - - - - -
LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I just got a questionnaire from one of my clients that brings back memories
> of an earlier thread. The "questionnaire" came certified mail (in fact, I had
> to sign for it twice!), it asks for a list of 3-5 current clients not
> including itself, copies of imprinted business cards and letterhead, and
> brochures or other advertising. Yikes!
> I really only work part time, so I don't have a huge client list. I was just
> getting ready to make up new cards/brochures/letterhead because I just moved
> (yes, again!), but I was going to use a desktop program and my laser printer.
> Now I'm thinking I need to order imprinted cards just to keep the IRS off the
> backs of my clients. Does anyone have any suggestions/gripes to
> share/experiences to share/anything else to say?
>
> Thanks
> Leslie
> Frank Words Indexing and Editing
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 06:22:06 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Pam Rider <prider@POWERGRID.ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: botanical names
At 12:07 AM 6/6/97 LCL, Victoria wrote:
> ^Achillea lanulosa^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ^Achillea millefolium^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ...
> Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa, Achillea millefolium^), 65-68
>
>Am I overindexing here?
I think not. Many--certainly not all, but many--folks reading a book such as
this will be familiar with scientific names and look for them in an index.
Unless your publisher disagrees, I think you are providing a serviceable index.
Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@powergrid.electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:20:16 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Larry Harrison <larryh@MILLCOMM.COM>
Subject: Indexer Certification
Diane Worden (WordenDex@AOL.COM) wrote:
>Whether back-of-book or database, indexer certification would be a great
>continuing education program primarily of interest to the indexer. I don't
>think clients in the US are that particular about whom they hire as
>freelancers. Bottom-line budgets seem to be the controlling factor, and
>getting the most/best work for as little payout as possible is the hardball
>game. Corporate recruitment may be another matter, where "pieces of paper" at
>least let potential job candidates get their big toe in the door. Because
>experience often translates into higher entry salaries, the bottom line
>favors someone willing to learn as they go. Willingness to gain certification
>might be the prime hiring factor. Larry Harrison's comment about
>certification specificity applies equally to BOB and DB indexers.
I agree with your comment about the benefit to the indexer. But, it is also
interesting that at least 5 (I do not have a full roster of attendees) of
the dozen people attending the certification roundtable in Winston-Salem
were people who hire freelance indexers, need to find more indexers, and
"cannot afford to take a chance on an unknown indexer" because they are
concerned about the quality of their product. They were ready for some kind
of credential sponsored by ASI that they could rely on to choose at least
minimally competent indexers from a pile of resumes. One person even uses a
test, and still finds people who pass the test but cannot really index
well.
These folks were not from the New York "names" in traditional publishing.
However, there is more than this kind of publishing out there, and the
concern for index quality is not dead; perhaps, just harder to find.
Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) Tel: 507/280-0049
Freelance book indexing
Rochester, Minnesota
What's book indexing? ---> <http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:27:56 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Linda Cast <Linda_Cast@CROW.BMC.COM>
Subject: Re[2]: botanical names
Victoria asked whether she could abbreviate in this case. Yes. Genus
names are often abbreviated for secondary usages, to the initial.
For example:
Achillea lanulosa
but:
Yarrow (^A.lanulosa, A.millefolium^), 65-68
Some of my gardening books do this so often that I forget the genus.
Linda
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: botanical names
Author: Susan Healy <welshone@FREENET.TLH.FL.US> at unixlink
Date: 6/6/97 6:14 AM
Victoria,
If the two species of Achillea are discussed collectively or in a parallel
fashion, then x-ref to Yarrow is most appropriate. To avoid overindexing
at the "Achillea" location you might use an entry such as:
^Achilles^, various species. ^see^ Yarrow
You also need to look at the intended reader audience of this book. Will
inclusion of each species name in the index be of importance?
Susan Healy
Florida Legislature
Div. of Statutory Revision
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Victoria Baker wrote:
> I'm indexing a book on herbalism in which the genus/species names as well
> as common names are used. I've been asked to cross reference from the g/s
> to the common names.
>
> My question: Is the following correct, in a case in which two g/s names
> are declared to have the same medical value (and common name)?
>
> ^Achillea lanulosa^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ^Achillea millefolium^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ...
> Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa, Achillea millefolium^), 65-68
>
> Am I overindexing here? Is there any way to abbreviate any of these terms?
> Should I just have a cross reference from ^Achillea^ to Yarrow?
> Space is no object.
>
> thanks,
> Victoria
>
> vbaker@mcn.org
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:34:34 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Linda Cast <Linda_Cast@CROW.BMC.COM>
Subject: basic index rules
Hello,
Being assigned to write a new manual for our company, I subscribed to
your list partly out of interest in indexing as an independent career,
and partly for help in creating this new index.
This is a TRULY newbie question.
Is there a simple list of basic indexing rules that someone can
recommend? I'll pop out and buy the book.
As an experienced writer I'm comfortable with a lot of aspects - I
know what reasonable to add to the index. But haven't a clue as to an
organized way to go thru a chapter and pick out index entries, then
make sure they aren't duplicates, etc.
Thank you,
LInda
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:35:22 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: WordenDex@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: botanical names
Victoria,
If space is no object, then why not just double-post rather than using a See
ref to Yarrow?
A...l..., 65-66
A...m..., 67-68
Y (A...l..., A...m...), 65-68
The double-post saves reader access time, while the See ref puts everything
into just one place (desirable and reasonable if space is limited).
Diane Worden
Kalamazoo, Mich.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:34:34 EDT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing
<Larry_Baker@GALE.COM>
Subject: contractor's questionnaires
Leslie Frank asked about the questionnaire he/she (sorry, don't remember)
received from a publisher. At the publisher I work for, we're aware of the IRS'
20 guidelines (I think it's 20), but we've never actually sent out
questionnaires to clients for them to fill out. We assume that freelancers take
the responsibility to make sure they're adhering to IRS rules, just as we're
taking responsibility for the same. We're supposed to be aware of these
guidelines, but we can't -- and shouldn't -- "check up" on freelancers to make
sure they're doing what they need to do.
The big thing for us is that we structure our contracts properly: mainly, make
sure freelancers aren't handling projects on an ipso-facto retainer basis (if
they're working on series, for instance, each volume is a separate job;
therefore, there's no contractual implication that they're always working on
the project), and, perhaps most importantly, the shift away from hourly rates
(which is more suggestive of an ongoing -- and in the eyes of the IRS --
possibly employer/employee type of relationship) to payment-for-the-job rates.
This has worked pretty well. We still occasionally pay by the hour when it
makes more sense (quicky, production-type, miscellaneous cleanup work;
never-before-done work where determining the amount of time it will take is
actually part of what we're paying the freelancer to do for us). And, of
course, with indexers, we still tend to pay by the indexable typeset page,
which is still indicative of the job itself, not how much time it takes
(though, of course, that's built in to the per-page rate that the two parties
agree on).
Hope that helps.
Larry Baker
Gale Research
Larry_Baker@gale.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:41:35 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: botanical names
Or use:
^Achillea^ spp. ^See^ yarrow.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 07:59:06 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Pam Rider <prider@POWERGRID.ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: basic index rules
Linda:
First, read over the indexing guidelines in the Chicago Manual of Style.
That's really plenty for you to be able to produce a fine index. _Indexing
Books_ by Nancy C. Mulvaney is much more detailed. Dedicated indexing
software (I use Cindex) is a great joy to me, but really not worth one job.
Your company would have an index sooner (and possibly better) if the company
gets Cindex or Macrex (the top-of-the-line products).
At 09:34 AM 6/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Being assigned to write a new manual for our company, I subscribed to
> your list partly out of interest in indexing as an independent career,
> and partly for help in creating this new index.
>
> This is a TRULY newbie question.
>
> Is there a simple list of basic indexing rules that someone can
> recommend? I'll pop out and buy the book.
>
> As an experienced writer I'm comfortable with a lot of aspects - I
> know what reasonable to add to the index. But haven't a clue as to an
> organized way to go thru a chapter and pick out index entries, then
> make sure they aren't duplicates, etc.
>
> Thank you,
> LInda
>
>
Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@powergrid.electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 08:13:11 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject: Re: contractor's questionnaires
At 03:16 AM 6/6/97 -0400, LLFEdServ@AOL.COM wrote:
>I just got a questionnaire from one of my clients that brings back memories
>of an earlier thread.
Leslie, you don't have to be concerned about the IRS or anybody else! The
client is concerned about protecting ITS hide in case the IRS decides you
are a bona fide employee and not an independent contractor. Whether or not
you have "real" business cards or a P.O. box or any of the rest of it...you
are still in business for yourself, which is all the company needs to know
(and all the IRS wants to know as well). I'm wondering who you are working
for (no need to tell us) if you are getting these kinds of questionnaires
fairly often. I've never had one in all the years I've been involved in
publishing, though I have been asked to sign contracts indicating my status
as an independent contractor.
Please don't spend more than 30 seconds worrying about this. It's their
problem, not yours.
=Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:05:47 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Ordering ASI pubs
The ASI Web page for ordering pubs contains this notice:
Until further notice, ASI publications are not available. Please stay tuned
for more information. Check your local library or bookstore for copies of
the publications you're interested in.
That sounds like pubs are not available *at all* from ASI. Anyone know the
story?
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:21:31 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@MCN.ORG>
Subject: botanical names
In response to Victoria's question, here are some suggestions:
^Achillea^ spp. ^See^ Yarrow
or
^Achillea lanulosa^; ^A. millefolium^. ^See^ Yarrow
or the way you had it
^Achillea lanulosa^. ^see^ Yarrow
^Achillea millefolium^. ^see^ Yarrow
and then
Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa^; ^A. millefolium^), 65-68
I won't mention how I feel about indexing under common rather than genus
names (heh heh).
Elinor Lindheimer
elinorl@mcn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 09:24:13 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@MCN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ordering ASI pubs
Dick and all,
ASI publications will be handled by Information Today, a publishing
company that specializes in library-oriented and other information-industry
publications. The transition is happening, but the publications will be
available again as soon as the stock is transferred.
Elinor Lindheimer
elinorl@mcn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:55:36 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: marketing blues
In-Reply-To: <199706040404.XAA11866@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>I spent some time this morning on calls to publishers I would really love to
>work for. One, in a mid-west city, asked me what the average rate in this
>area (New England) is. When I answered what I felt was a representative and
>fairly respectable figure ($3-4/page), she said that they are able to
>contract locally at $1.75/page. Have you come up against this reaction? Any
>suggestions for responding?
>Barbara
Here's how I'd respond: "Are you and your readers satisfied with the
resulting indexes?"
If she says yes, then I'd just thank her for her time.
If she says no or something like, "Why, whatever do you mean?" I'd describe
the kind of indexes I provide. I agree with Janet and others that you
shouldn't waste your time trying to convince this editor; if, OTOH, she
sounds interested in hearing what a higher fee might buy . . . *
>This is where local ASI chapters
>can have an effect--get these editors to some ASI meetings, get them to learn
>the difference between a bad index and a good index, and maybe then they will
>want to hire the better indexer regardless of price!
*I want to quibble with equating low rates with bad results. Although that
is frequently true, we shouldn't *assume* that anyone charging a low rate
is a bad indexer. There are plenty of indexers out there who are not in
touch with other indexers (i.e., not ASI members and not Index-L
subscribers) and may not know what the going rate is. Some may be charging
low rates because they are moonlighting and don't need the higher rate as
much as someone who is indexing full-time. I know that my reaction to
copyediting rates changed dramatically after I quit moonlighting and became
a full-time indexer and copy editor.
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 11:55:37 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Dangers of freelancing
We've all heard about carpal tunnel, eyestrain, etc., but here's a new one
for y'all. I'm indexing a book for a glass artist. When the pages arrived,
I found shards of colored glass in the box and embedded in the packing
foam! Now the shards are in the carpet in my office, because my 5-yr-old
discovered them before I did and--so typical--dumped the box. (No one got
cut.)
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 12:09:12 -0500
Reply-To: davidaus@indiana.edu
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: david robert austen <davidaus@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dangers of freelancing
Borrow a really powerful shop vac, I'd say. Then scrub the carpet with
a brush and vacuum it again. (Should be a wet-dry vac.) My two cents.
Children are one thing, but one day you might have a cat! And how can
you explain cuts and pokes to a cat! They'll understand, but they're not
very forgiving. Fortunately they _are_ pretty forgetful. <g>
DRA
Carol Roberts wrote:
>
> We've all heard about carpal tunnel, eyestrain, etc., but here's a new one
> for y'all. I'm indexing a book for a glass artist. When the pages arrived,
> I found shards of colored glass in the box and embedded in the packing
> foam! Now the shards are in the carpet in my office, because my 5-yr-old
> discovered them before I did and--so typical--dumped the box. (No one got
> cut.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
> Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
> Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
> http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:35:28 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: Ordering ASI pubs
At 09:24 AM 6/6/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Dick and all,
> ASI publications will be handled by Information Today, a publishing
>company that specializes in library-oriented and other information-industry
>publications. The transition is happening, but the publications will be
>available again as soon as the stock is transferred.
Any time frame on that?
Dick
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:38:10 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: botanical names
In-Reply-To: <199706060742.AAA03978@mx4.u.washington.edu>
When a popular name refers to more than one species you should use the
genus and spp, e.g., liquorice, Glycyrrhiza spp., not a specific uralensis
or whatever since medicinal liquorice may be the root of more than one
species. Another example, Chinese Flower Pepper (Zanthoxylum spp.), the
commercial product of which is from several species. Note that popular
names may embrace several species and that crossreferences can become
extremely complicated, e.g., waterchestnuts .... Of course if the
usage is straightforward in your text .... Paul D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 10:39:52 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: botanical names
In-Reply-To: <199706061014.DAA08805@mx4.u.washington.edu>
But if you write Zanthoxylum various species see "Chinese Flower Pepper"
this will not be true since Chinese Flower pepper only refers to certain
species. Are all Achilles yallow? Paul D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 14:18:25 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "(Pamela Venneman)" <Psvenndex@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ordering ASI pubs
Hi all,
I ordered ASI publications at the end of March and after 2 or 3 E-mails sent
several weeks ago and one letter (sent earlier this week) I have yet to hear.
I did call the office on another matter in early April and they said
something about having a publisher handle the publication requests; but I was
not sure if this was something under consideration or a "done deal" and they
did not give many details or that this would affect my order. As someone in
the USDA course, I could really use these publications or at the very least
would like to know if ASI even received my order and check.
Pamela Venneman
Lighthouse Indexing Services
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 17:08:24 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Dawn Spencer <Indexlady@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ordering ASI pubs
Greetings to all!
Well, this message came 2 hours too late. I JUST sent off for some ASI pubs.
Thanks! I can assume my check will be returned uncashed?
If the treasurer of ASI will let me know, I'd appreciate it. I'll need the
cash to purchase the pubs elsewhere.
If the "unavailable pubs" message is a mistake, please let me know that, as
well.
Thanks,
Dawn
indexlady@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 15:08:07 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Mary S Stephenson <mss@UNIXG.UBC.CA>
Subject: Re: Ordering ASI pubs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19970606092702.41e759a6@mail.mcn.org>
I'm glad to hear that the ASI pubs will be distributed by Information
Today. Hope it doesn't mean a BIG increase in prices. Like others who've
responded on the list today I've had considerable problems in the past
ordering publications. Turn-around times varied from several weeks to
several months,with very long waits until e-mailed/snail mail inquiries
were answered (if at all). Getting a refund for unavilable books took up
at least 6 months. The last couple of times I've blown off the ASI member
discount and ordered through amazon.com just to eliminate the hassles.
On the other hand I'm sure that the move from Texas to Seattle caused a
lot of the delays/problems, and I have nothing but admiration for every
other aspect of ASI -- especially Keywords and the annual conference.
Getting out from under the publications should make everything else work
even better.
Susie Stephenson
UBC/SLAIS
Vancouver
mss@unixg.ubc.ca
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Elinor Lindheimer wrote:
> Dick and all,
> ASI publications will be handled by Information Today, a publishing
> company that specializes in library-oriented and other information-industry
> publications. The transition is happening, but the publications will be
> available again as soon as the stock is transferred.
>
> Elinor Lindheimer
> elinorl@mcn.org
>
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 18:26:17 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Caroline Parks <caroline@MACK.RT66.COM>
Subject: Fall Indexing Conference, NM ASI Group
*********************************************
**** Indexing Up, Up, and Away! ****
*********************************
The New Mexico Group of the American Society of Indexers will hold its
first annual Fall Indexing Conference on Friday and Saturday, October 3rd
and 4th, 1997. October 4th is also the first day of the Albuquerque
International Balloon Fiesta, so if you haven't experienced the sight of
700 hot-air balloons flying at dawn, now is the time!
SCHEDULE:
The conference will kick off late Friday afternoon with a tour of Access
Innovations, an Albuquerque company specializing in converting printed
materials to online formats such as HTML, SGML, CD-ROM, document management
systems, and customized databases. Access Innovations
(http://www.accessinn.com) has pioneered a specialized indexing software
package, with vocabularies that are customized and fine-tuned for each
client.
The hour-long tour will be followed Friday evening by a wine-and-cheese
reception for the conference speakers and attendees.
Saturday's conference activities will feature two workshops, and lunch will
be provided.
"Embedded Indexing"
The morning session will be presented by Jan C. Wright, of Wright
Information Indexing Services in Seattle. This workshop will focus on
planning and resolving issues for embedded indexing, using MS Word as an
example application. Hands-on activities will be included, so bring a
laptop if you have one (a limited number of computers will be available as
well). Jan, in business as a freelance indexer since 1991, has built
indexes in Word, PageMaker, and several arcane tools for both print and
online materials.
Lunch will be served, and will include a short discussion on the Wilson
Award by Janet Perlman, who was an alternate judge this year.
"The Business Of Being In Business"
In the afternoon session Janet Perlman, of Southwest Indexing in Phoenix,
will focus on such topics as marketing your business, financial record
keeping, managing your time, and handling contracts and estimates. Janet,
who is on the American Society of Indexers' National Executive Committee,
helped found the Arizona chapter of ASI, and just completed her term of
office as its first president. Janet has been a technical and scientific
indexer for more than 20 years.
COST:
The cost of the conference, which includes lunch on Saturday, will be
$45.00 for registrations postmarked by September 1st, and $50.00
thereafter. Of course, non-ASI members are welcome.
Please note that this cost is for Saturday's events only; the tour of
Access Innovations and the Friday evening reception are complementary.
Also, we regret that we cannot accept credit cards, and we'll need to have
your registration on paper, rather than by email. Thanks!
BALLOON FIESTA:
If you've ever thought about coming to Albuquerque for the Balloon Fiesta
(upwards of 700 balloons in the sky at once!) , this is your chance to make
it a business trip. But MAKE YOUR PLANS SOON if you'll need to stay in a
local hotel, as rooms fill up *very* early for that week. Plan to stay
through Sunday morning to enjoy the mass ascension at dawn (check out the
balloon fiesta on the web at http://www.aibf.com). Please see below for
phone numbers of some local motels, as well as the web address for the NM
Central Reservations service.
REGISTRATION:
For more information, contact Caroline Parks, caroline@rt66.com, or
505-286-2738 (between 9:00 am and 7:00 pm MST, please). Or fill out the
form below and send it with a check for the full amount to Caroline Parks,
8 Calle Dorada, Tijeras, NM 87059. Make checks payable to
Linda Nelson / ASI.
LODGING:
*** For lodging information in Albuquerque: ***
New Mexico Central Reservations, 800-466-7829 or http://www.nmtravel.com
Albuquerque B & B Association Reservations, 800-916-3322
B & B Southwest Reservations, 800-762-9704
Days Inn Motels 800-325-2525
Super 8 Motels, 800-800-8000
(the Bernalillo Super 8 Motel, 505-867-0766, has lots of smoking rooms and
a *few* non-smoking rooms open for that weekend, as of 6/2. It's located
about 20 miles north of town, but may be a good last-ditch option.)
REGISTRATION FORM:
=======================================================
Please print out and mail to:
Caroline Parks
8 Calle Dorada
Tijeras, NM 87059
Name ______________________________________________
Address _____________________________________________
_____________________________________________
Telephone ______________________ Fax _____________________
Email ____________________________________
Vegetarian or other special dietary considerations?
_________________________________________________________________
Can you bring a laptop? ______________________________
Mac or PC? _________________________________
Do you have Word _________ or Pagemaker ___________ installed on it?
Will you be planning to attend the tour of Access Innovations on Friday
afternoon? _______________
=======================================================
____________________________
Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence
Indexing and Editorial Services
Tijeras, NM
505-286-2738
caroline@rt66.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:35:30 LCL
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Victoria Baker <vbaker@MCN.ORG>
Subject: Re: botanical names
In-Reply-To: <199706061623.JAA10399@dns1.mcn.org>
Thanks everyone for responding to my question. I'm going to follow
Elinor's suggestion which modifies my original slightly:
> ^Achillea lanulosa^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ^Achillea millefolium^. ^see^ Yarrow
>
> and then
>
> Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa^; ^A. millefolium^), 65-68
The thing is, this is a highly specialized herbal that focuses on some 40
herbs, going into details of their usage not generally occuring in herbals
(such as a specifics for fevers without sweat, with sweat, with
debilitating sweat, as intermittent, as low-grade, with skin eruptions...),
so Yarrow has multiple subheadings. Consequently, double posting is not an
option. Also, the two ^Achillea^ species under discussion are defined as
being the same medicinally, so perhaps I shall include an entry
Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa^; ^A. millefolium^)
^A. millefolium^ vs. ^A. lanulosa^, 65
since some herbalists make a distinction between them and this author
specifically addresses this. P.Buell wrote that:
>When a popular name refers to more than one species you should use the
>genus and spp, e.g., liquorice, Glycyrrhiza spp., not a specific uralensis
>or whatever since medicinal liquorice may be the root of more than one
>species.
Yes, but when the author is saying, "these two species are medicinal and
equal, but other species are ornamentals," it won't do to reference the
whole genus.
New Question 1: Since the actual content of the above entry declares them
equal and not opposed, as the term "vs." implies, is there a better term
for this particular comparison? Maybe,
Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa^; ^A. millefolium^)
^A. millefolium^ and ^A. lanulosa^, compared, 65
Compared doesn't strictly address the issue either. Suggestions? (Is my
question clear?)
New Question 2: But here's another twist: A. millefolium is actually the
preferred species name, used exclusively after the the definition of A.
lanulosa as equal (and later slightly contradicting himself in a caution
against diploid mutations). Would there be any room for switching the two
genus names in the parentheses (thus taking them out of alphabetical order):
Yarrow (^Achillea millefolium^; ^A. lanulosa^)
New Question 3: Maybe I should go back to square one and x-ref A.
millefolium to Yarrow, but actually put the page reference in for A.
lanulosa, and include only ^A. millefolium^ in the parentheses following
Yarrow. What think? The substance of the book is made of these kinds of
distinctions, so I need to be as careful as I can be. (Noting that this is
one of the few such confusing instances.)
Elinor wrote:
>I won't mention how I feel about indexing under common rather than genus
>names (heh heh).
I know. The publisher feels the use of the common names will make the book
more accessible. I'm cross-referencing alternative names like crazy. The
author goes back and forth between the genus and the common name, and does
sometimes conveniently list other names they are known by, and I'm
cross-referencing from all of the genus names. But still.
However it is true that most herbals are done in this manner, and most do
not have x-refs from the genus names, so at least there's that??...
More examples of the ways we bend, but never break! <g>
best,
Victoria
vbaker@mcn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 00:01:46 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Doug Williams <dougwill@KENSA.COM>
Subject: Domain Name Registration
>>On June 3, Doug wrote
>>
>>If you get a new ISP you'll get a new address, which is a hassle, unless
>>you have your own domain (like kensa.com), which goes wherever you go.
>
>How does one do this, Doug? I like it.
>
>*******************************************************
>Martha Osgood osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu
>Back Words Indexing 541-484-1180 Eugene, OR
Martha,
Your ISP or someone at the university should have the details. My ISP did
the initial setup for $50, and I paid InterNIC $50/year for an initial
registration period of two years.
The ISP setup includes routing any domain name email to my local non-domain
account. Since the domain name is unique, I can use any "account" name
that I want at this domain, and the email all goes to the same place. For
example, info@kensa.com, dougwill@kensa.com, anynameIwant@kensa.com, etc.
My wife and kids have their own email addresses at kensa.com, and my email
software - Eudora Pro - automatically filters incoming/outgoing messages
into their individual mailboxes.
If I change providers, I take my domain name with me to the new ISP.
Doug Williams
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 01:17:11 +0100
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Martha Osgood <osgood@DARKWING.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Domain Name Registration
In-Reply-To: <199706070503.WAA19033@darkwing.uoregon.edu>
Thanks Doug. This sounds like a very good idea.
Martha
On June 6, Doug wrote
>Your ISP or someone at the university should have the details. My ISP did
>the initial setup for $50, and I paid InterNIC $50/year for an initial
>registration period of two years.
>
>The ISP setup includes routing any domain name email to my local <snip>
*******************************************************
Martha Osgood osgood@darkwing.uoregon.edu
Back Words Indexing 541-484-1180 Eugene, OR
Indexes for books in philosophy, cultural and physical anthropology,
linguistics, religions, women's studies, and current culture.
*******************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 06:33:12 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Pam Rider <prider@POWERGRID.ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject: Re: Domain Name Registration
>If I change providers, I take my domain name with me to the new ISP.
>
This was also my assumption. BUT, I now find out that providers other than
my current provider expect a bizarre premium for the very simple process of
routing my domain name. Some want money every month or quarter. Others want
$50 a year. I pay InterNic, myself.
It is not, in my opinion, valid for a provider who does not pay anything to
InterNic to charge me. I might consider a one-time-only setup (BUT 50$?!).
A lot a local providers are popping up--watch out, they are GREEDY!
Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@powergrid.electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:20:42 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "[Gaye Tarallo]" <Greystones@AOL.COM>
Subject: Advice for a newcomer
Hello,
I am a newcomer to indexing and INDEX-L. I am looking for advice on a couple
of topics..
1. How useful is the USDA course?? I am aware it takes about a year to
complete, but can you obtain the same level of expertise on your own? Does
the fact that you have completed the course carry any weight with prospective
clients? How many of you have taken the course and found it worthwhile, and
how many wouldn't bother with it?
2. Software suggestions for indexing... I have a PC running Windows95.
As I am just starting out, I am hesitant to invest $400 - 500 for the higher
end software. Are any of you running the lesser expensive programs and are
you happy with it? Or is it worth it to make the initial investment for the
more expensive programs??
Thanks for any other suggestions you may be able to give to a novice
indexer..
Gaye Tarallo
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:06:59 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Rica Night <rnight@INFORAMP.NET>
Subject: Re: Advice for a newcomer
> 2. Software suggestions for indexing... I have a PC running Windows95.
> As I am just starting out, I am hesitant to invest $400 - 500 for the higher
>end software. Are any of you running the lesser expensive programs and are
>you happy with it? Or is it worth it to make the initial investment for the
>more expensive programs??
I'd definitely advise investing in one of the dedicated programs.
If you're genuinely serious about being in business as an indexer, investing
in the success of your business is the smartest move you can make. You have
to spend a certain amount of money (and time, and effort) in order to make
money. When I teach the _Starting Out and Thriving as a Freelance Editor_
workshop for the Editors' Association of Canada, I hear this kind of
"hesitancy" all the time--and I've come to believe that unless it can be
overcome, it does *not* bode well for the hesitator's future as a
freelancer. I've heard would-be editors complain that the dictionaries and
style guides I advise them to buy are <whiny mode on> "exPENsive, you know"
<whiny mode off>. Here's my usual answer to such comments:
<"stern coach" mode--okay, rant mode!--on>
Well, yes, I *do* know that they cost. And they are the tools of our trade.
Can you do an adequate job without them? Maybe. But you'll do it a lot more
efficiently if you have them at hand. Service businesses often require a
relatively *low* capital investment--AND virtually *all* require *some*
upfront investment. If you were going into the restaurant business, you'd
need to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars in capital expenses
before you ever opened your doors. If you want to be a freelance editor (or
proofreader, or indexer), you *must* be prepared to spend a thousand or two
(more if you don't already have a computer) in the first couple of years on
training, marketing, equipment, etc. In addition, you'll need enough in the
bank--or coming in from another source, such as your day job, your partner's
income, or a rich and generous aunt--to pay all your operating expenses,
business *and* personal for a mininum of six months (and a year, or even
two, would be much safer). Even if all your marketing efforts paid off
immediately (a relatively unlikely possibility), it would still be a couple
of months before you'd completed some projects, billed the clients, and
gotten paid.
I started my own business 15 years ago while working half-time at a regular
job. I kept my overhead low by working from my home and not wasting money on
slick brochures or advertising (which aren't particularly effective in this
field anyway). I bought my first computer and fax machine with a
low-interest credit-union loan co-signed by my gainfully employed mom. I
used the money from my first two indexing projects (done using WordPerfect)
to buy Macrex. Other expenses (books, seminars, business cards, an answering
machine, and professional-association dues) came out of my regular or
freelance income. In other words, I poured the initial "profits" from my
budding business directly back into the business until the business was
self-sustaining, which took roughly two and a half years.
If you're *not* prepared (or able) to feed your startup business the funds
it needs, then do yourself and your loved ones a favour and *don't quit your
day job*. You'll save yourself a lot of heartache and financial woes.
<coach/rant mode off>
Gaye, I hope that you and other newbies will take this advice in the spirit
in which it's offered. I genuinely love to see other people succeed in this
business. And over the years, I've observed that perhaps 5% of those who
start out actually wind up "surviving and thriving." Investing in your
business--combined with talent at whatever service you offer--will go a long
way toward ensuring that you're among that "lucky" 5%.
Regards,
Rica Night
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(Ms.) Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net
* Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer
* Seminar Leader: _Networking With Integrity_ and
_Romance Meets Reality: Becoming Your Own Boss_
Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT
"The person at the top of the mountain didn't *fall* there!"
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 09:15:45 -0600
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Caroline Parks <caroline@MACK.RT66.COM>
Subject: Oops! (Fall Indexing Conference, NM ASI Group)
My apologies -- in the announcement I sent out yesterday about our fall
conference, I gave an incorrect URL for the Albuquerque International
Balloon Fiesta! the correct URL is http://www.aibf.org .
Hope nobody has had time to be inconvenienced by this ;-)
Caroline Parks
for the New Mexico group of ASI
____________________________
Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence
Indexing and Editorial Services
Tijeras, NM
505-286-2738
caroline@rt66.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:42:55 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: botanical names
In-Reply-To: <199706070413.XAA08746@mixcom.mixcom.com>
> ^Achillea lanulosa^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ^Achillea millefolium^. ^see^ Yarrow
> ...
> Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa, Achillea millefolium^), 65-68
>
>Am I overindexing here? Is there any way to abbreviate any of these terms?
> Should I just have a cross reference from ^Achillea^ to Yarrow?
>Space is no object.
The one abbreviation I'm aware of and have used is this:
^Achillea^ spp. ^See^ Yarrow
...
Yarrow (^Achillea^ spp.), 65-68
But I would do this only if the client agrees that you need not show each
separate species.
However, since you say that space is not a problem, I wouldn't do this. I'd
go ahead and put in the separate species names (but perhaps use the
abbreviation in the parens after "Yarrow."
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:42:55 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Dangers of freelancing
In-Reply-To: <199706070413.XAA08746@mixcom.mixcom.com>
>Borrow a really powerful shop vac, I'd say. Then scrub the carpet with
>a brush and vacuum it again. (Should be a wet-dry vac.) My two cents.
I have a wet-dry vac, which I didn't even think to use! Silly me.
>
>Children are one thing, but one day you might have a cat! And how can
>you explain cuts and pokes to a cat! They'll understand, but they're not
>very forgiving. Fortunately they _are_ pretty forgetful. <g>
I have 3 cats, who I kept out of the office til I'd had a chance to give
the carpet a good cleaning. Fortunately, no one got hurt, but when I
alerted the office where these pages came from, they were of course very
apologetic. Apparently they are working in an environment with broken glass
all around them. Sheesh!
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 15:42:56 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Carol Roberts <Carol.Roberts@MIXCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: contractor's questionnaires
In-Reply-To: <199706070413.XAA08746@mixcom.mixcom.com>
When a business uses a questionnaire, I take that with a grain of salt.
It's not personalized; it's just what they routinely send out. I simply
send what I have.
One client sent me their standard contract, which asked for info about my
liability insurance. I simply crossed out that clause, wrote on the
contract "see addendum," and wrote up an addendum. It stated (among other
things I wanted to add to their contract) that I am an independent
contractor, do not carry liability coverage, and do not assume liability
for the contents of my indexes. The publisher accepted all this without
batting an eyelash.
Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:45:30 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Peg Mauer <Pmauer@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Advice for a newcomer
Gaye,
I took the USAD course, and I *highly* recommend it. I doubt that I could've
gotten the same level of education, training and advice that I received
through a one-on-one relationship with my USDA instructor. She gave me great
personal feedback on my lessons and my questions. At $280 (or whatever it
is), including textbooks and lesson book, I think it's the deal of the
century! I don't know if it carries weight with clients; it's on my resume,
but I've never received specific feedback/comments on it.
On your second question, I heartily agree with an earlier reply that someone
gave you; I think it's worth it to make the initial investment for one of the
more expensive programs! You've got to have the proper tools to do the job!
Good luck!
Peg Mauer
Communication Link
In a message dated 97-06-07 13:59:06 EDT, you write:
> 1. How useful is the USDA course?? I am aware it takes about a year to
> complete, but can you obtain the same level of expertise on your own? Does
> the fact that you have completed the course carry any weight with
> prospective
> clients? How many of you have taken the course and found it worthwhile,
and
> how many wouldn't bother with it?
>
> 2. Software suggestions for indexing... I have a PC running Windows95.
> As I am just starting out, I am hesitant to invest $400 - 500 for the
> higher
> end software. Are any of you running the lesser expensive programs and are
> you happy with it? Or is it worth it to make the initial investment for
the
> more expensive programs??
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:48:11 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: botanical names
In-Reply-To: <199706070501.WAA29877@mx4.u.washington.edu>
On use of .spp for medicinals. Ideally, this or that species is
"medicinal," but in the trade there are often substitutions and the
scientific names themselves, e.g., Aloe vera, may not be very scientific.
Try, for example, picking a Latin name for sorghum with feuding botanists
around. So, as a rule, if, as is suggested, yarrow is just and always just
these two species then the proposed approach is justified. For liquorice,
however, "medicinal" liquorice may be any one of a large number of species
and the situation is much the same with rubbarb. But the bottom line is
that the writer should deal with such problems in the text. In one book I
have an entry for Liquorice, with no Latin name and a section Scientific
names, with all the scientific names listed in one place including all the
species (4 or 5) identified as liquorice in the text. If the reader is so
inclined, they can use either the liquorice or latin entries to go back to
the discussion. The real danger of saying x plant y Latin name or names is
that the indexer may end up making a botanical decision that the author
should be making. You can get yourself and your author in a heap of
trouble this way. Botanists will almost go to war over a Latin name
(bitter experience). Paul D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:53:12 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "P. Buell" <pbuell@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: botanical names
In-Reply-To: <199706070501.WAA29877@mx4.u.washington.edu>
Sorry for the two messages on the same subject, but I forgot a point. An
absolute model of indexing of a book on medicinal herbs is Hu Shiu-ying,
An Enumeration of Chinese Materia Medica, various editions, including Hong
Kong: The Chinese University Press, 1980. I have used this book for nearly
16 years now and I have never had anything to complain about. It is one of
the finest reference works I know of and primarily because of the way it
is indexed. One finds things, by the way, primarily by genus. The author
uses 19th century customs terminology to provide English standards, a
wonderful decision. Paul D. Buell
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:01:35 -0500
Reply-To: davidaus@indiana.edu
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: david robert austen <davidaus@INDIANA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dangers of freelancing
Funny. My cats will work in an environment with broken glass around them
too. We discussed it. You know, informed consent and all these days.
Yes, they're pretty adaptable. Oh, once they left the room when a dinner
guest started ranting about religion or politics or something. . . .
<g>
Good weekend!
Carol Roberts wrote:
>
> >Borrow a really powerful shop vac, I'd say. Then scrub the carpet with
> >a brush and vacuum it again. (Should be a wet-dry vac.) My two cents.
>
> I have a wet-dry vac, which I didn't even think to use! Silly me.
> >
> >Children are one thing, but one day you might have a cat! And how can
> >you explain cuts and pokes to a cat! They'll understand, but they're not
> >very forgiving. Fortunately they _are_ pretty forgetful. <g>
>
> I have 3 cats, who I kept out of the office til I'd had a chance to give
> the carpet a good cleaning. Fortunately, no one got hurt, but when I
> alerted the office where these pages came from, they were of course very
> apologetic. Apparently they are working in an environment with broken glass
> all around them. Sheesh!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My
> Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
> Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer
> http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 16:43:46 -0500
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Rashidah Z. Hakeem" <rzhakeem@MECCA.MECCA.ORG>
Subject: Margin settings
Greetings to all,
I am taking the USDA Indexing Course and I am using MSWord 6.01 for
preparing lessons. One of the lessons requires me to set the left
margin at 10 and the right margin at 45 to achieve a 35 character wide
line @ 10 characters per inch. I have optional measurements in inches,
picas and points. How can I do this? I do not own a typewriter.
********************************************************************************
Rashidah Z. Hakeem, M L S rzhakeem@mecca.mecca.org
M E C C A
(Memphis Educational Computer Connectivity Alliance) http://www.mecca.org/
LeMoyne-Owen College voice: (901) 942-6227 fax: (901) 942-6272
********************************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:25:34 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "D. C. Schroeder" <DrDCS@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Margin settings
Rashidah,
ain word or any other word processing program you can mimic a typewriter by
selecting a monospaced type. These are fonts that take up the same space for
each letter regardless of its width, i.e., an "i" and an "m" take up the same
amount of space on the line. These fonts are usually some form of courier,
typewriter courier for example or they may be prefaced with a term like "tax"
because individuals who need to manipulate coulums of figures prefer these
types for spreadsheets and tables because they don't require setting numerous
decimal tabs.
Good Luck,
Dawn Schroeder
The Perfect Page
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 20:09:28 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: "Howard R." <howard@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: Re: Margin settings
I am considering taking a USDA course on indexing. Do you find it
worthwhile? Would you recommend it?
Howard
Rashidah Z. Hakeem wrote:
>
> Greetings to all,
> I am taking the USDA Indexing Course and I am using MSWord 6.01 for
> preparing lessons. One of the lessons requires me to set the left
> margin at 10 and the right margin at 45 to achieve a 35 character wide
> line @ 10 characters per inch. I have optional measurements in inches,
> picas and points. How can I do this? I do not own a typewriter.
>
>
*******************************************************************************
*
> Rashidah Z. Hakeem, M L S
rzhakeem@mecca.mecca.org
> M E C C A
> (Memphis Educational Computer Connectivity Alliance)
http://www.mecca.org/
> LeMoyne-Owen College voice: (901) 942-6227 fax: (901) 942-6272
>
*******************************************************************************
*
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:27:10 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@MCN.ORG>
Subject: Re: botanical names
Victoria,
Re:
>
> Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa^; ^A. millefolium^)
> ^A. millefolium^ vs. ^A. lanulosa^, 65
or
> Yarrow (^Achillea lanulosa^; ^A. millefolium^)
> ^A. millefolium^ and ^A. lanulosa^, compared, 65
>
How about "species compared" ????
Then re:
>New Question 2: But here's another twist: A. millefolium is actually the
>preferred species name, used exclusively after the the definition of A.
>lanulosa as equal (and later slightly contradicting himself in a caution
>against diploid mutations). Would there be any room for switching the two
>genus names in the parentheses (thus taking them out of alphabetical order):
I wouldn't. However, as your Question 3 implied, I could see cross
referencing ^Achillea millefolium^ to Yarrow, putting the page number for
^Achillea lanulosa^, and then ^See also^ Yarrow:
^Achillea millefolium^. ^See^ Yarrow
^Achillea lanulosa^, 65. ^See also^ Yarrow
Then, as you suggested, your Yarrow entry could be:
Yarrow (^Achillea millefolium^)
^A. lanulosa^ compared to, 65
And since the ^A. lanulosa^ comes out at or near the top of the subentries,
it looks quite reasonable to me.
Amazing how much you can play with these!!!
Best,
Elinor
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:42:04 -0700
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Elinor Lindheimer <elinorl@MCN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Advice for a newcomer
I think we should all save Rica's advice and trot it out whenever someone
asks a similar question. It was excellent--including the time one should
expect it to take to "get into" the business.
As for the USDA course, I have seen the curriculum and I am VERY impressed
with it. There are a lot of little things one needs to know to work as a
freelance indexer, and the course covers a lot of these little things while
teaching the big concepts.
Elinor Lindheimer
elinorl@mcn.org
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 22:02:02 -0400
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From: Emily Adelsohn <Emadelsohn@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ethical dilemma
I'm not an indexer yet, but I feel a need to put in my two cents' worth.
It's very hard to work for a company that does not value the standards you
uphold. I am in that situation with my current position, and I would not
wish it on anyone. You'll hate those people if they don't recognize what it
means to produce a quality product, and give you the time and resources to do
the job well.