Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:55:36 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Ronald Russ <rruss@panix.com>
Subject: Indexing software
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I was at a conference session at ALA Annual Conference this year which
discussed how to get started in indexing, the keynote speaker was Linda
Fetters, the President of the American Society of Indexers. She mentioned
several different software packages one I think was Empsort (I don't know
if the spelling is correct) and Cyndex (or maybe it's Cindex). Any my
experience in indexing is minimal and has been done fully manually, from
selecting the paraphrases, to arranging the subjects on index cards, etc.
What do these software programs do? Do they automate everything? How
much control does the indexer have in selecting terms? Also, are there
any good reference sources or publications that would help to explain this
more fully. Also, do you need to use a service like OCLC in this process
(I was told by a colleague that when they were indexing, they used their
services). I know this is a lot to ask, but any information would be
grately appreciated.
-Ron Russ
Brooklyn Public Library
rruss@panix.com
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:56:19 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Nancy Kaiser <snak@sunyit.edu>
Subject: Help--ALF
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this list stuff so please bear with me. I have just
received my indexing course materials and included with is was
a booklet about access to ALF, Agricultural Library Forum--an
electronic bulletin board for indexing students. I do not have a
modem is there access to this through the internet?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
*********************************************************************
* *
* Nancy Kaiser voice (315) 792-7307 *
* SUNY Institute of Technology fax (315) 792-7517 *
* Utica, NY 13504 *
* snak@sunyit.edu *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:56:49 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "Nancy C. Mulvany" <nmulvany@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Good Reading
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
BYTE, September 1993
"Documentation Goes Digital" by Philip C. Murray, 121-129
This is an excellent article about electronic reference document
(ERD) design. Murray provides an overview of the software tools
and design issues. He also discusses INDEXES for ERDs; real
indexes! Here's a quote:
Keeping what's good about printed books in your ERDs
seems like a logical thing to do, but sometimes the wrong
things are kept and the right things are discarded.
Ironically, chief among the often-discarded features is
the most frequently used method of information access in
books: the back-of-the-book, or "conceptual," index.
Full-text searching is not an adequate replacement for
indexes in electronic documents, as studies of the
effectiveness of searching have shown. ...
In an ERD that supports hypertext links, a conceptual
index can provide direct access to all significant ideas
in the document from any point in the document, not just
the names of things that can be found easily by search
features. ...
Murray demonstrates that he knows the difference between a
conceptual index and a string-searching algorithm. Both retrieval
devices have their place in ERDs, which is discussed in the
article. All too often, search engines get coverage in the press
while conceptual indexes go unmentioned.
This tendency is apparent even in this article. A sidebar
article, "Finding Text Fast," by Peter Wayner discusses automated
text-indexing software. Word-level and file-level indexing
schemes are discussed as well as binary-tree structures, hashing
functions, and fuzzy searches.
I commend Murray for discussing the critical need for conceptual
indexes in ERDs. However, the article discusses much more than
indexes. The primary focus of the article is the electronic
document production process and the tools available. Many
real-world examples of ERDs are provided. Anyone interested in
the design and preparation of electronic documents will find this
article valuable.
Nancy Mulvany
nmulvany@well.sf.ca.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:57:46 ECT
Reply-To: Michael Kalen Smith <mksmith@taproot.win.net>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Michael Kalen Smith <mksmith@taproot.win.net>
Subject: Re: author-invented terms
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>What do ya do when the author invents a term to use in place of an
>alternative, commonly used term, and the invented term is one NO ONE would
>think of looking under?
>Do y'all agree that I'll have to do it this way:
>
>benevolence. _See_ nonjustice obligations
>nonjustice obligations
>
>I would love to hear about others' experiences with author-invented terms.
>
>Carol Roberts
>Ithaca, NY
>rw16@cornell.edu
Yeah, that's exactly what I would do/have done. At least 80% of my jobs are
for academic presses and I get to wade through a lot of jargon --
"standard" and author-original -- in philosophy, sociology, urban studies,
political science, economics, etc.
You have an obligation to use the term the author uses (however bizarre it
might be), but you also have an obligation to the reader, to lead him to
that term.
Mike
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael Kalen Smith / Dallas, TX
Internet: mksmith@taproot.win.net / CompuServe: 73177,366
*** It doesn't TAKE all kinds; we just HAVE all kinds ***
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:58:36 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Carolyn Weaver <cweaver@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: author-invented terms
In-Reply-To: <9308241320.AA22382@carson.u.washington.edu>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
My personal feeling is that the primary goal of an index is to facilitate
access by its USERS - not to massage the author's ego. If the author's
preferred word is unique to him, I would use the term the USER will be
seeking, with a cross-reference from the author's coined term.
A call to the author (or the editor if you are working for a publisher
rather than the author directly) seems to be in order to explain your
reasoning for the choice of terms. You need to make your professional
opinion clear on the subject, even if you are forced by the person who is
paying the bill to go with the less satisfactory choice.
Carolyn G. Weaver
Seattle, Wa.
cweaver@u.washington.edu
phone: 206/930/4348
On Tue, 24 Aug 1993, bob wallace wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Well I must be working on another philosophy index, because I have another
> question for y'all.
>
> What do ya do when the author invents a term to use in place of an
> alternative, commonly used term, and the invented term is one NO ONE would
> think of looking under? In this book, the author prefers the term
> "nonjustice obligations" to "benevolence" (let's assume he has his
> reasons). The whole book is about obligations, so I'd really have to list
> this under nonjustice. Ugh! But to list it under benevolence with a cross
> reference from nonjustice obligations would go against the author's wish to
> use this term. I sure wish he hadn't picked a "non" word. Do y'all agree
> that I'll have to do it this way:
>
> benevolence. _See_ nonjustice obligations
> nonjustice obligations
>
> I would love to hear about others' experiences with author-invented terms.
>
> Carol Roberts
> Ithaca, NY
> rw16@cornell.edu
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 08:57:56 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: King Co Lib System <canderso@wln.com>
Subject: Re: Indexing software
In-Reply-To: <9308302058.AA24991@rs6a.wln.com>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I've been a free-lance indexer for some twenty years and began using
a computer for this about 12 years ago. For the last five years I've
been using Cindex. I've also taught several courses on computer indexing
software packages for the University of Chicago Continuing Ed Department.
Following are my thoughts on the subject and some answers for your questions.
Indexing software ranges in price and complexity from less than $100 to $600+.
The best programs mimic the way a professional indexer works and are
very flexible. Desirable features include easy retrievability of previously
entered terms (to avoid re-keying and to maintain flexibility); the ability
to "flip" entries, i.e., invert to enter under another heading; lots of
control over output - into various word processing programs or for electronic
submission with type-setting codes embedded; speed of sorting; adherence to
the University of Chicago Style manual.
None of the dozen or so programs that I have evaluated require access to
some other database such as OCLC (a somewhat strange idea!). All of them
let you enter your own terms. The built-in indexing features of some
word processors are not, to my mind, a workable alternative for a professional
indexer.
I feel the best program available at this time is Cindex. Fetter's "A Guide
to Indexing Software," published by the American Society of Indexers, if
still available does give basic comaparative features - didn't she mention it?
Oh, total size limitations can be an important feature if you are creating
large indexes. And flexibility of page references (if doing something other
than straight book pages - like magazine issues, etc.) is another.
If there is other information I can add, let me know.
Charles Anderson
1111 110th Ave. SE
Bellevue, Wa 98004
206-450-1789
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 08:58:31 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Jessica Milstead <76440.2356@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Indexing software
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Ron Russ --
I suggest you contact the American Society of Indexers (whose
administrative contact happens to be Linda Fetters) to get a copy of Linda's
book, Guide to Indexing Software, where practically every currently
available package is described and evaluated. ASI is reachable via The
Well: asi@well.sf.ca.us.
On your specific questions:
1. Software of this type automates *clerical* tasks only.
2. The indexer has full control over term selection; this is intellectual.
3. For a reference source, see Linda's work above.
4. OCLC has nothing to do with the process of indexing in this sense. Your
colleague probably used OCLC for cataloging.
Good luck!
Jessica Milstead
76440.2356@compuserve.com
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:03:59 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: King Co Lib System <canderso@wln.com>
Subject: Re: Indexing software
In-Reply-To: <9308302058.AA24991@rs6a.wln.com>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
One additional comment to my earlier missive:
One of the major indexes I do each year used to take me 400 hours manually.
I now do that index in about 48 hours on a computer. This should answer
your question about the advantage of computer indexing.
Charles Anderson
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:04:34 ECT
Reply-To: Michael Kalen Smith <mksmith@taproot.win.net>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Michael Kalen Smith <mksmith@taproot.win.net>
Subject: Re: Indexing software
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>if the spelling is correct) and Cyndex (or maybe it's Cindex). Any my
>experience in indexing is minimal and has been done fully manually, from
>selecting the paraphrases, to arranging the subjects on index cards, etc.
>What do these software programs do? Do they automate everything? How
>much control does the indexer have in selecting terms?
PERSONAL OPINION ===> I've been using CINDEX since Linda & Co. demo-ed it at
a workshop a UTX a number of years ago. It's gone through several major
revisions now and I wouldn't attempt to get out the volume of work I do with
any other program. I regard CINDEX as the indexing equivalent of
WordPerfect: The most configurable, maleable software on the market. You
can do virtually *anything* with it, and you have *complete* control. What
it automates is all the 'mechanical' stuff; you still have to supply all
the creative thinking. There's a learning curve, but when I first began
using it I was able to do three indexes in the same amount of time in which
I had done the previous two ... which paid for the program.
>-Ron Russ
>Brooklyn Public Library
>rruss@panix.com
Mike
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michael Kalen Smith / Dallas, TX
Internet: mksmith@taproot.win.net / CompuServe: 73177,366
*** It doesn't TAKE all kinds; we just HAVE all kinds ***
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:06:07 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "Robert Lee Hadden,
US Geological Survey Library" <RHADDEN@USGSRESV.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Help--ALF
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I'm not aware of the agricultural forum, either. However,
I am interested in your indexing course. Is this from an
university, or is it a special correspondence course?
lee hadden
usgs library
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this list stuff so please bear with me. I have just
received my indexing course materials and included with is was
a booklet about access to ALF, Agricultural Library Forum--an
electronic bulletin board for indexing students. I do not have a
modem is there access to this through the internet?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
*********************************************************************
* *
* Nancy Kaiser voice (315) 792-7307 *
* SUNY Institute of Technology fax (315) 792-7517 *
* Utica, NY 13504 *
* snak@sunyit.edu *
*********************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:42:36 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Charlotte Skuster <SKUSTER@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Subject: FAQ
Moderators note: Given the recent questions about software and the
correspondence course..it looks like a good time for this. In the future
I will post this on the last day of each month. Since many of you will not
want to read the FAQ every time it is posted, I will let you know if anything
new is included...nothing new this time. Charlotte
INDEX-L FAQ
BOOKS ON INDEXING?
Knight, G. N. Indexing, The Art Of. Allen & Unwin, 1979.
Lancaster, F. W. Indexing and Abstracting in Theory and Practice.
U of Illinois Press, 1991.
Lancaster, F. W. Vocabulary Control for Information Retrieval,
2nd ed. Information resources Press, 1986
Wellisch, H. Indexing and Abstracting, an International
Bibliography ABC-Clio, 1980.
Wellisch, H. Indexing from A to Z. H. W. Wilson, 1991.
WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT AUTOMATIC INDEXING?
Books:
Salton and McGill Introduction to Modern Information Retrieval
Salton, Automatic Text Processing
Van Rijsbergen Information Retrieval
Jones, Karen Spark Information Retrieval Experiment
Papers:
Bell, C. and Jones, K. "Back-of-the-book Indexing: A Case for the
Application of Artificial Intelligence", Informatics 5, ASLIB
Pub., pp. 155-161, 1979
Bennion, B. "Performance Testing of a Book and its Index as an
Information Retrieval System", JASIS, pp. 265-270, July 1970
Borko, H. "Experiments in Book Indexing by Computer" Information
Storage and Retrieval, 6:5)16, 1970
Dillon, M. and McDonald, J. "Fully Automatic Book Indexing"
Journal of Documentation 39(1):135-154, 1983
Dion, M. Thesaurus-Based Automatic Book Indexing", Information
Processing and Management, 81(4):167-178, 1982
Salton, G. "Syntactic Approaches to Automatic Book Indexing",
Proceedings of the 26th ACL, pp. 204-210, 1988
WHAT SOFTWARE DO INDEXERS USE?
(All of these are for DOS machines...no Macs)
IN>SORT
Kensa Software
P.O. Box 4415
Northbrook, IL 60065
(708) 559-0297
Macrex
Bayside Indexing Service
P.O. Box 3051
Daly City, CA 95015-0051
(415) 524-4195
FAX: (415) 757-1567
Cindex
Indexing Research
Box 18609
Rochester, New York 14618-0609
(716) 461-5530
FAX: (716) 442-3924
COURSES OR TRAINING FOR INDEXERS (OUTSIDE OF LIBRARY SCHOOLS)?
Graduate School of the USDA
Correspondence Programs
Room 1114, South Agriculture Building
14th St. and Independence Ave. SW
Washington, DC 20250
(202) 720-7131
Tuition: $269.00 (includes all materials)
PROFESSIONAL SOCIETIES/ORGANIZATIONS FOR INDEXERS?
(this question was not actually asked..but here's the answer
anyway)
American Society of Indexers (ASI)
P.O. Box 386
Port Aransas TX 78373
(512) 749)4052
FAX: (512) 749-4052
Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada
Box 744 Station F
Toronto Ontario
Canada M4Y 2N6
National Federation of Abstracting and Information Services
(NFAIS)
1429 Walnut Street
Philadelphia PA 19102
(215) 563)2406
FAX: (215) 563-2848
Society of Indexers (SI)
16 Green Road Birchington, England
CT79JZ
Australian Society of Indexers (AusSI)
GPO Box 1251L, Melbourne
Victoria 3001, Australia