Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:09:00 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Carol Roberts <carol_roberts@qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu>
Subject: Indexing Software
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Indexing Software
Hi, folks! I'm back with my dumb little questions about software. I've been
dutifully reading my Wellisch book and am ready to begin work on a sample
index. Obviously, I can create the sample with almost anything, so long as it
can handle some formatting requests. But I'm wondering how the different
permutations of people and software work in real life. Presumably you get the
page proof (typically _with_ a disk or without?), and you set about creating an
index on, let's say, your computer. Do you then have to do some sort of
translation from your indexing application (whether it be In-Sort, HyperIndex,
or whatever) to the page-layout program the publisher has/requests? Or does the
publisher typically do that? Or do they scan your index in? In other words, is
an indexer really free to use whatever indexing software works (and later have
it scanned), or is compatibility an issue? In other, other words, how does it
all work? Thanks in advance for your patience. :o)
Carol Roberts
PUBS, Cornell
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:09:31 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "Barbara E. Cohen" <becohen@well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Decision Making during Indexinh
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I would like to compile a list of rules of thumb that indexers follow for
making compromises in their indexes when all of the desired entries cannot
be accommodated. In other words, if a client cannot fit the entire index
into the available space, or if there is a space constraint from the start,
how do indexers decide what stays and what goes. I want to prepare this
information for an article for KEY WORDS, the newsletter of the American
Society of Indexers. I am looking for a discussion of the reasoning behind
your choices as well as any anecdotes that you might have to share.
For example, I recently had a situation in which, in order to cut about 50
lines of the index, I decided to delete subheads rather than eliminate some
entries. In another situation, I might have deleted the double-entries.
What have you had to do? How do you decide
I am thinking that this crops up fairly regularly, from the number of
questions people have asked me about it, and I don't see much discussion of
this in the indexing books available (they al seem to me to read as though
indexers operate in a perfect world).
If you want to be specific (about authors, publishers, books) in your
anecdotes, that might be helpful (to see what kinds of clients are forcing
us to make these compromises). If you want to be credited in the article,
be sure to tell me who you are, etc. But if you want anonymity in the
article, I will gladly refrain from naming names, if you indicate your
desire to remain anonymous.
Barbara E. Cohen
email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us
voice: 217/398-1220
letters: 1708 Ridgeland Drive, Champaign, IL 61821
Thanks for your assistance. I look forward to hearing from you.
Barbara
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:10:26 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "Barbara E. Cohen" <becohen@well.sf.ca.us>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Ignoring prepositions when sorting entries...
Here is a new twist on the issue of ignoring prepositions when sorting
entries. I recently read of a rule that indexers should ignore the
preposition or prepositional phrase within the name of an organization:
e.g., Association of American Publishers
Association for Asian Studies
This was a new one on me. Has anyone else seen this, where do you use it,
and why? Is there a citation to refer to? (My source didn't cite a
publication.) I would appreciate hearing more about this or knowing your
opinion. I, for one, don't think it makes sense, but then again, I can't
always see the sense of some other rules, so I thought someone could explain
this one to me. Thanks for your comments.
Barbara E. Cohen
email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:10:59 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "(Carolyn Kidder)" <carolyn@mayberry.cray.com>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
About a week ago I sent out a request for some information on the
indexing program available in the Interleaf 5 Desktop Publishing
System, and I have not received any responses. I'm reissuing my
request. Any input is welcome.
Carolyn Kidder
carolyn@mayberry.cray.com
----- Begin Included Message -----
>From carolyn@mayberry Thu Oct 15 07:35:28 1992
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 07:35:26 CDT
From: carolyn@mayberry (Carolyn Kidder)
To: INDEX-L%BINGVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU
Subject: Interleaf 5
Cc: carolyn
Content-Length: 574
X-Lines: 12
I am interested in some discussion on the indexing program available in
the Interleaf 5 Desktop Publishing System. Is anyone out there currently
using this? Has anyone used Interleaf to produce indexes in the past?
Any input is welcome. I have noticed some format problems, such as the
placement of See also references and the lack of choice for
alphabetization. I am most interested in how those who use(d)
Interleaf have worked the indexing process in conjunction with
inserting the tokens for the "generation" of the index.
Carolyn Kidder
carolyn@mayberry.cray.com
----- End Included Message -----
----- End Included Message -----
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:11:52 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Carol Roberts <carol_roberts@qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu>
Subject: Women, Work, and Sex Discri
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Women, Work, and Sex Discrimination
Those of you in the Ithaca, NY, area might be interested in this upcoming
event:
<FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
ITHACA, NY-A year after Anita Hill's testimony before the U.S. Senate Judiciary
Committee, women in central New York will meet for a panel discussion Saturday,
Nov. 7 on Women, Work, and Sex Discrimination: How Far Have We Come?
Molly Cummings, news director at Channel 7 TV in Ithaca, will moderate the
panel. The public forum is to be held in Room 110 of Ives Hall at Cornell
University.
The panel will feature two members of the Cornell Eleven, a pioneering group
of women academics who sued to resolve gender discrimination complaints in
academia more than a decade ago. Judy Long, who is now professor sociology at
Syracuse University, and Jackie Livingston, an artistic photographer who is the
composing room manager at the Cornell Daily Sun, will discuss that case and the
remedies available to women at that time.
Jennie Farley, professor of industrial and labor relations and co-founder of
the Women Studies Program at Cornell, will talk about what women who experience
sex discrimination at a college or university can expect if they file
complaints.
Marilou Wright, executive assistant to the president and affirmative action
officer at the State University of New York at Cortland, and Teddy Zimrot,
director, Tompkins County Human Rights Commission, will address the current
state of the law and remedies available to women experiencing sex
discrimination on the job.
The panel discussion will begin at 2 p.m. and will be followed by questions
from the audience until 4 p.m. A reception and networking hour will begin at 1
p.m. The event, which is sponsored by the Ithaca chapter of Women in
Communications, Inc., is open to the public.>
I'll be there, too, so if any of you I've been networking with do attend this
shindig, come and say howdy!
Carol Roberts
PUBS, Cornell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 10:00:40 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: CTPLENGE@SUVM.BITNET
In-Reply-To: Your MAIL dated Mon, 26 Oct 1992 17:10:26 ECT
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi-
I'm hoping to be picking up some indexing work, and I'm curious
about how people set prices. This will be newspaper, on site, with
their software, and I'm a very new indexer, if all this makes a difference.
I'd appreciate any information.
Sindi Plenge
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 10:01:14 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Joan Stout <sasjcs@unx.sas.com>
Subject: Re: Indexing Software
In-Reply-To: <199210270049.AA26638@lamb.sas.com>; from "Carol Roberts" at Oct
26, 92 5:09 pm
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Indexing Software
> Hi, folks! I'm back with my dumb little questions about software. I've been
> dutifully reading my Wellisch book and am ready to begin work on a sample
> index. Obviously, I can create the sample with almost anything, so long as it
> can handle some formatting requests. But I'm wondering how the different
> permutations of people and software work in real life. Presumably you get the
> page proof (typically _with_ a disk or without?), and you set about creating
an
> index on, let's say, your computer. Do you then have to do some sort of
> translation from your indexing application (whether it be In-Sort, HyperIndex,
> or whatever) to the page-layout program the publisher has/requests? Or does
the
> publisher typically do that? Or do they scan your index in? In other words, is
> an indexer really free to use whatever indexing software works (and later have
> it scanned), or is compatibility an issue? In other, other words, how does it
> all work? Thanks in advance for your patience. :o)
>
> Carol Roberts
> PUBS, Cornell
>
Hi. I am a part-time freelance indexer. (My "real job" is technical
writing.) I work regularly with three publishers and occasionally with
a few others. They all use the same basic format.
I have never received a disk with page proofs. I receive page proofs,
mark them, and then enter headings with my indexing software (CINDEX).
The software alphabetizes, suppresses page numbers, formats, etc. After
editing and proofreading the index, I copy it to Word Perfect and do a
spellcheck. For one of my publishers, I put in typesetting codes at
this point. I print the index and send a hardcopy to the publisher
along with a copy on disk.
I am sometimes asked to use a certain line length, but the publishers I
work with typically deal with page layout. In my experience, the
publisher doesn't care what software I use as long as the index looks
the way they want it to. And some publishers simply say, "Follow
Chicago." 8-)
Joan
<------------------------------->
| Joan Stout |
| Technical Writer |
| sasjcs@unx.sas.com |
| SAS Institute, Inc. |
| Cary, NC 919 677-8000 |
<------------------------------->
| home: |
| Joan.Stout@bbs.oit.unc.edu |
<------------------------------->
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 10:02:08 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Carol Roberts <carol_roberts@qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu>
Subject: Databases
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Databases
Does anyone know of any electronic databases for corporation names (a sort of
electronic Standard & Poors), names of contemporary figures (politicians,
artists, musicians, etc.-an electronic Who's Who), etc.? Does Time, Newsweek,
etc., have a dynamic database online? If anyone knows of such sources, please
flash me some FTP sites.
Lost in the internet,
Carol Roberts
PUBS, Cornell
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 11:36:04 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Joan Stout <sasjcs@unx.sas.com>
Subject: Re: Decision Making during Indexing
In-Reply-To: <199210270054.AA26760@lamb.sas.com>; from "Barbara E. Cohen" at
Oct 26, 92 5:09 pm
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> I would like to compile a list of rules of thumb that indexers follow for
> making compromises in their indexes when all of the desired entries cannot
> be accommodated. In other words, if a client cannot fit the entire index
> into the available space, or if there is a space constraint from the start,
> how do indexers decide what stays and what goes. I want to prepare this
> information for an article for KEY WORDS, the newsletter of the American
> Society of Indexers. I am looking for a discussion of the reasoning behind
> your choices as well as any anecdotes that you might have to share.
> Barbara E. Cohen
> email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us
> voice: 217/398-1220
> letters: 1708 Ridgeland Drive, Champaign, IL 61821
>
When I started indexing books, I was very concerned about this issue.
This is my sixth year, and I index about 12 books per year. Only once
have I been given a page limit for an index, and that limit was
generous enough that it didn't cause a problem.
I expected to be told that I would have a certain number of pages, and
that I would have to fit the index into that space. But it just hasn't
worked out that way for me. It's possible that my indexes are trimmed
after they reach the publisher, but I don't really think that's
happening.
Joan
<------------------------------->
| Joan Stout |
| Technical Writer |
| sasjcs@unx.sas.com |
| SAS Institute, Inc. |
| Cary, NC 919 677-8000 |
<------------------------------->
| home: |
| Joan.Stout@bbs.oit.unc.edu |
<------------------------------->
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 11:36:34 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: Joan Stout <sasjcs@unx.sas.com>
Subject: Re: Prepositions
In-Reply-To: <199210270054.AA26766@lamb.sas.com>; from "Barbara E. Cohen" at
Oct 26, 92 5:10 pm
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Ignoring prepositions when sorting entries...
>
> Here is a new twist on the issue of ignoring prepositions when sorting
> entries. I recently read of a rule that indexers should ignore the
> preposition or prepositional phrase within the name of an organization:
>
> e.g., Association of American Publishers
>
> Association for Asian Studies
>
>
> This was a new one on me. Has anyone else seen this, where do you use it,
> and why? Is there a citation to refer to? (My source didn't cite a
> publication.) I would appreciate hearing more about this or knowing your
> opinion. I, for one, don't think it makes sense, but then again, I can't
> always see the sense of some other rules, so I thought someone could explain
> this one to me. Thanks for your comments.
>
> Barbara E. Cohen
> email: becohen@well.sf.ca.us
>
It's a new one on me, too! It makes no sense to me. If I saw it in
an index, I would think it was bad indexing.
Joan
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1992 11:39:18 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "(Ted Koppel)" <tkoppel%server@carl.org>
Subject: Re: Databases
In-Reply-To: <9210271527.AA01322@server.carl.org>; from "Carol Roberts" at Oct
27, 92 10:02 am
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
From Carol Roberts's original message:
* Databases
*Does anyone know of any electronic databases for corporation names (a sort of
*electronic Standard & Poors)
IAC (Information Access Corp.) makes available a database called
Business ProFiles, which is a name/address/SIC directory. The CARL
System has it available to licensed IAC users.
Does Time, Newsweek,
*etc., have a dynamic database online? If anyone knows of such sources, please
The CARL UnCover database is an index to 12000 journals,
including Time, Newsweek, etc. It is as up to date as the
yesterday's mail delivery, which makes it pretty dynamic.
It, too, is a subscription/licensed database.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Koppel -- CARL Systems, Inc. -- ted@carl.org
----------------------- >> Systems that Inform << -----------------------
Work: 404 242 8733 Home: 404 242 8710
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 09:33:23 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "(Janice Woo)" <jwoo@info.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: ignoring prepositions
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I've seen this phenomena in some directories. Could it have to do with
machine sorting with stop-word list that then turned into a procedural rule?
(Having used ALA filing rules for all these years, however, I don't think
ignoring the prepositions is very helpful, but rather more confusing.)
Janice Woo
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 09:33:52 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "(Cammie Donaldson)" <sps!cmd@uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Re: Re: Indexing Software
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi -
I am hoping to become an indexer--currently employed as programmer and
was a tech writer in a previous life!
I have a simple question and as I am new to this newsgroup, I apologize
if I am repeating something you all have already addressed.
I have made a big investment in Mac hardware and am a Mac devotee. Is it
hopeless? Do I need to go PC?
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 15:57:52 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
From: "(Carolyn Kidder)" <carolyn@mayberry.cray.com>
Subject: Re: ignoring prepositions
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
As a student of indexing I am still trying to keep track of all the
standards, different acceptable styles, etc. The practice of ignoring
the preposition (or prep. phrase) within the name of an organization
makes no sense to me. There are so many organizations with similar
names, and quite often the only differences in the names appear in the
prepositions (or prep. phrases) used with in them, dropping the
prepositions would only make things confusing for the index user. I,
like Joan, would think it was bad indexing.
What is a STOP-WORD list? Janice Woo indicated that this practice of dropping
prepositions might have started with "machine sorting with stop-word list."
Carolyn Kidder
carolyn@mayberry.cray.com
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1992 15:58:05 ECT
Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET>
Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was
cweaver@CARSON.U.WASHINGTON.EDU
From: Carolyn Weaver <cweaver@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Indexing Software
In-Reply-To: <9210281435.AA02891@milton.u.washington.edu>
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
You don't HAVE to go PC, but it's easier! There is one inexpensive
($129), easy to learn indexing program for the MAC (IN>Sort for the MAC
from Kensa Software) which will handle all the basics for straight-forward
indexes, provided that you're willing to do final formatting, editing,
entry of generic indexing codes, merging for cumulated indexes, etc.,
manually thru your word processor. I like it a lot - particularly having 4
windows (raw, sorted, and formatted, plus entry screen)
open simultaneously. But it doesn't do the advanced tasks (particularly
automatic addition of generic indexing codes and merging for journal index
cumulations) that my major client requires; and it's also rather a pain to
have to convert MAC format to DOS for the majority of my clients who want
output on disk. The full-fledged DOS indexing software like CINDEX and
MACREX does all that automatically, and more. So if your intent is to do
an occasional book index as a sideline (or start out slow and gradually
expand to more complex projects) the MAC will work fine. But if you intend
to get into this strange business seriously, you will probably need to move
to DOS eventually. The best of all worlds will be when CINDEX/MACREX come out
with a Windows version that will allow the same type of multi-Windows display
that IN>Sort currently provides. (That's a hint, if you developers are
listening!).
Carolyn Weaver
Univ. Washington Health Sciences Library (day job)
SB-55
Seattle, Wa. 98195
cweaver@u.washington.edu
voice: (206) 543-3401
=========================================================================