Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9907A" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:05:21 -0400 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Organization: Focus Information Services Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents Regarding site maps, I've heard usability experts argue effectively that site maps are not advantageous. Most users enter a web site looking for something in particular. They should be able to discover a path there from the home page, something unambiguously defined by the link choices, the architecture, the design scheme, and the locator text. The home page *is* a map. It should provide a sense of scope, depth, and direction. If a user has to leave the home page to go to a site map, then you have already failed. Why create two maps for the same information, unless one of them doesn't do a good enough job? Designing a good home page (map) is an intellectual process when you are mapping information and structure. Site maps are a lot like tables of contents, except that tables of contents are linear by page number and site maps deal with tree structures. Thus if somebody can't find what they want in the index (what the home page and subsequent navigational pages can provide), of course they go to the table of contents (the site map) to try browsing. - Seth ----- Original Message ----- From: David M. Brown To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:06 PM Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents > Do I Have to Draw You a Map? > Site guides and indexes made easy > By: Elizabeth Powell Crowe > First Published: June 29, 1999 > URL: http://www.currents.net/magazine/national/1712/nets1712.html I read Ms. Crowe's article with interest, and I certainly agree with her point that a good web site requires a good TOC and index. The article is actually a review of a site-mapping program called SurfMap. I like graphical representations of large web sites, because they frequently do a better job than a TOC of showing the site's organization. SurfMap sounds like an easy way to create site maps, and I'd definitely give it a try. The reviewer goes on to describe how SurfMap also creates an index. From the description, though, it looks like what you actually get is a concordance, rather than an index. I still don't believe a concordance is as useful as a real index, compiled by a human being who has analyzed the site's content, judged entries for their value in context, recognized likely alternative entries, evaluated appropriate depth of indexing across the site, and ensured consistent treatment of entries. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:19:31 -0400 Reply-To: Kevin Broccoli Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: ftp w/ chmod Anyone know of an ftp program that has the chmod option for changing privileges. Believe it or not, this *is* related to indexing, albeit indirectly. -Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:22:27 -0400 Reply-To: rohrbach@delanet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne L. Rohrbach" Subject: Re: Underline disappeared from New Record box (CINDEX/Windows) Hey Cynthia! You don't say what software you're using, but I'll assume it's MSWord. I have Word 97... I'm not sure this will work, but it's worth a try. Go up to View, down to 'toolbars', and turn off the formatting toolbar, and then turn it back on - see if the U button comes back. Hope it works!!! Joanne =================== > > Well, the craziest thing just happened ... I have been editing an > index and > the U button in the NEW Record Box just disappeared. I have an F (which is > default font and I can't do anything to it, never saw that before, I don't > think), B, and I (as usual). WHAT IN THE HECK IS GOING ON? HOW DO > I GET THE > U BACK? > > Help fast! I can underline with keystrokes, but .... > > > Cynthia > > ***************************************** > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen > Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services > Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing > cbertel@usit.net > Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ > > "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no > literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no > social harmony." --Careme > ****************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:26:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents David M. Brown wrote: > > > Do I Have to Draw You a Map? > > Site guides and indexes made easy > > By: Elizabeth Powell Crowe > > First Published: June 29, 1999 > > URL: http://www.currents.net/magazine/national/1712/nets1712.html > > I read Ms. Crowe's article with interest, and I certainly agree with her point > that a good web site requires a good TOC and index. > > The article is actually a review of a site-mapping program called SurfMap. I > like graphical representations of large web sites, because they frequently do a > better job than a TOC of showing the site's organization. SurfMap sounds like > an easy way to create site maps, and I'd definitely give it a try. > > The reviewer goes on to describe how SurfMap also creates an index. From the > description, though, it looks like what you actually get is a concordance, > rather than an index. David, I was particularly interested in Ms. Crowe's description of editing the concordance: "In a rather tedious process, you must then highlight each word you want to exclude on each page (such as "and," "but," and "a") separately; however, you can exclude a word from all pages at once. By being persistent and ruthless, I pared the index down to about 8MB--but it was a grueling job." We are not out of business yet! ;-D It would be nice if there was more distinction made between "index" and "concordance" in the world at large. Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 10:44:30 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Reasons for embedded indexing In-Reply-To: This problem came specifically from having a number of blank pages in the middle. I wanted to index pages 1 to 40 of an electronic document and then start pagination from 90 again (this was an exercise). I inserted page breaks from 40 to 90. When Word repaginated after indexing my text restarted on page 94 (or so, I can't remember exactly). It might have been caused by something I did or didn't do, but I was unable to figure it out. I have never needed to use embedded indexing in Word since then, but I must say it rather turned me off the idea. Glenda. > Glenda wrote: > > As I understand it you could practice embedded indexing with MS Word using > any Word document you have. I only ever did this years ago, and my major > problem (which was insurmountable) was that Word would repaginate > before it > created the index, and it always repaginated with different page breaks to > those I had when I started indexing. I assume this sort of > problem has been > fixed by now. > > Seems odd -- the only way the page breaks would change is if you added > content or changed printers. Also, obviously, if the display of > index fields > is turned on, page breaks will vary as you add index entries -- > but you need > to turn off that display in order to generate an accurate index. > > John Sullivan > Stratus Computer > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:09:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents Ann wrote: <> An interesting thing that I've been dealing with lately in connection with HTML Help full-text search and Acrobat Catalog PDF "indexes" (actually more like concordances) is the issue of "stop lists" -- lists of words that should NOT be included in the full-text search. I suppose it takes the same kind of analysis to decide what should not be indexed as it does to decide what should be. John Sullivan Stratus Computer > -----Original Message----- > From: Ann Truesdale [SMTP:atruesdale@EARTHLINK.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:26 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents > > David M. Brown wrote: > > > > > Do I Have to Draw You a Map? > > > Site guides and indexes made easy > > > By: Elizabeth Powell Crowe > > > First Published: June 29, 1999 > > > URL: http://www.currents.net/magazine/national/1712/nets1712.html > > > > I read Ms. Crowe's article with interest, and I certainly agree with her > point > > that a good web site requires a good TOC and index. > > > > The article is actually a review of a site-mapping program called > SurfMap. I > > like graphical representations of large web sites, because they > frequently do > a > > better job than a TOC of showing the site's organization. SurfMap > sounds > like > > an easy way to create site maps, and I'd definitely give it a try. > > > > The reviewer goes on to describe how SurfMap also creates an index. > From the > > description, though, it looks like what you actually get is a > concordance, > > rather than an index. > > David, > > I was particularly interested in Ms. Crowe's description of editing the > concordance: > > "In a rather tedious process, you must then highlight each word you want > to exclude on each page (such as "and," "but," and "a") separately; > however, you can exclude a word from all pages at once. By being > persistent and ruthless, I pared the index down to about 8MB--but it > was a grueling job." > > We are not out of business yet! ;-D It would be nice if there was more > distinction made between "index" and "concordance" in the world at > large. > > Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:23:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents Ann Truesdale wrote: > > It would be nice if there was more distinction made between > "index" and "concordance" in the world at large. In an off-list response, Ms. Crowe commented that the distinction *is* lost on most people, and added that the concordances created by SurfMap and similar tools are (to paraphrase) "as close as most people will get to indexing" their web sites. I (for reasons beyond the obvious one!) hope that's only temporarily true. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:32:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: ftp w/ chmod In-Reply-To: <199907011503.LAA02889@ddi.digital.net> At 03:19 PM 6/30/99 -0400, you wrote: >Anyone know of an ftp program that has the chmod option for changing >privileges. Believe it or not, this *is* related to indexing, albeit >indirectly. > >-Broccoli Someone told me that WS-FTP 4.0 will do that. I have a different version of WS-FTP and it doesn't. But I did see a screen shot of version 4, and there it was. Karen Lane klane@klane.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:37:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: ftp w/ chmod Actually, I think it's WS_FTP (underline, not hyphen). Karen Lane klane@klane.com Kevin wrote -- At 03:19 PM 6/30/99 -0400, you wrote: >Anyone know of an ftp program that has the chmod option for changing >privileges. Believe it or not, this *is* related to indexing, albeit >indirectly. > >-Broccoli Then I wrote -- Someone told me that WS-FTP 4.0 will do that. I have a different version of WS-FTP and it doesn't. But I did see a screen shot of version 4, and there it was. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:21:37 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents "Sullivan, John" wrote: > > An interesting thing that I've been dealing with lately in connection with > HTML Help full-text search and Acrobat Catalog PDF "indexes" (actually more > like concordances) is the issue of "stop lists" -- lists of words that > should NOT be included in the full-text search. I suppose it takes the same > kind of analysis to decide what should not be indexed as it does to decide > what should be. Even the so-called "stop lists" are fraught with peril... It seems reasonable to ignore trivial terms like "the," "a," "and," "or," and "not." But, what if the web site (or other document) deals with programming languages, in which AND, OR, and NOT (not necessarily in capitals) are very significant elements? Most programs only offer such all-or-nothing choices. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:40:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents David wrote: <> That's what I meant about the analysis required to decide what goes into the stop list. Also, you'd have to gauge the likelihood of anyone wanting to do a search on words like AND, OR, and NOT. John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: David M. Brown [SMTP:dmbrown@BROWN-INC.COM] > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 12:22 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents > > "Sullivan, John" wrote: > > > > An interesting thing that I've been dealing with lately in connection > with > > HTML Help full-text search and Acrobat Catalog PDF "indexes" (actually > more > > like concordances) is the issue of "stop lists" -- lists of words that > > should NOT be included in the full-text search. I suppose it takes the > same > > kind of analysis to decide what should not be indexed as it does to > decide > > what should be. > > Even the so-called "stop lists" are fraught with peril... > > It seems reasonable to ignore trivial terms like "the," "a," "and," "or," > and > "not." But, what if the web site (or other document) deals with > programming > languages, in which AND, OR, and NOT (not necessarily in capitals) are > very > significant elements? > > Most programs only offer such all-or-nothing choices. > > --David > > ============================= > David M. Brown - Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com > ============================= > > A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ > > HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain > back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. > > Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:41:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: A Comment on Site Maps All - I read Seth Maislin's excellent comment on site maps vs. home pages, but after reflecting on it, a small red "caveat" light started to flash ... Seth said : "I've heard usability experts argue effectively that site maps are not advantageous. Most users enter a web site looking for something in particular. They should be able to discover a path there from the home page, something unambiguously defined by the link choices, the architecture, the design scheme, and the locator text. The home page *is* a map. It should provide a sense of scope, depth, and direction. If a user has to leave the home page to go to a site map, then you have already failed. Why create two maps for the same information, unless one of them doesn't do a good enough job?" My concerns are: 1) As a general philosophy, I am uneasy about "expert" opinion in matters that are difficult to quantify (or even "objectify" - if that is not too ugly a construct!) The expert opinion to which Seth refers seems to imply a single-path orthodoxy. That is: "Users should be able to...", "Site maps are not advantageous", and "Then you already have failed." These are pretty hard black-and-white positions, and my view is that real life is a blend of shades of grey. 2) As a defrocked technical librarian (yup, I also was one of "Them", too) I learned early on that most clients looking for information hadn't any clear idea of what they wanted - - certainly not with sufficient specificity to justify such a hard orthodoxy regarding the dismissal of site maps. Thus we have the celebrated "reference interview" in which the client, with the assistance of the librarian and/or the online search process, refines the query through a process of iteration until the desired information is located. 3) If (2), above, is valid, then it is incorrect and very counterproductive for "experts" to assume that the visitor to any moderately complex and information-rich website will know, in advance and with great specificity, exactly what the question is. There is a profoundly important "serendipity factor" in any but the most narrowly-focussed searches. If "unambiguous" does not apply to the question, and if many (probably most) visitors do not have razor-sharp, precisely-formulated questions, then how can the home page to a complex website be made narrowly precise a priori? 4) A properly-structured website, in my opinion, must provide some accessible path (yellow brick road) down which the visitor/searcher can skip, stopping now and then to smell a serendipitous rose! In short, each home page for each website is Different, and no single orthodoxy need apply! Some websites are well served by three links; others might require very careful, thoughtful structuring that reflects both the complexity and richness of the site and the likely needs of the visitor. The full range of diversity of all likely visitors, not just a sample population observed by an "expert" in a controlled usability test. In fact, exactly the same criteria that apply to indexing! 5) I do not believe (don't think it sounds reasonable) to postulate that "If a user has to leave the home page to go to a site map, then you have already failed." That seems to be a rather hard position. "There are many paths to enlightenment," as I used to say when I lived in a Himalayan cave and people visited me with gifts of rancid yak butter. 6) It seems, on the face of it, unreasonable to expect that one home page fits all. For a complex website, that implies a rather detailed and possibly cluttered page. I believe that "there is no failure" as Yoda said. A tree-structured site map could be a blessing for the searcher who wants to explore the [complex] site in an orderly and rational fashion, rather than leaping blindly, from link to link, never clearly visualizing the underlying structure of the website. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:02:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Potential Payment Problems Has anyone else recently had trouble getting paid from University departments? I've just received some unsettling news from our local University Accounts Payable and Temporary Employment offices having to do with new IRS regulations for paying independent contractors. Apparently there have been meetings among University Press personnel nationwide on this issue, with indexers being the subject of concern. There is more than the average amount of federal auditing going on having to do with Independent Contractor status --and indexers may be bearing the brunt of the scrutiny. I have been assured that my check will arrive next week --the paperwork has finally been released. But I'm curious to know if anyone else has encountered this problem and what if anything ASI might be able to do about it if the issue becomes more widespread. Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 11:11:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: W: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Potential Payment Problems In-Reply-To: <199907011403.rnnbcc.74r.37kbi14@mx6.mindspring.com> This has been going on in the software world for years - the problem of determining whether a contractor is truly independent or not. They shouldn't be holding up your payment due to the questions, however, especially if you have a written contract. What you need to do is to reassure them that you have other clients. Give them a list. It is the one-client contractor, one who works only for one client for a long time, that is the issue with the feds, or so I read it. I am NOT a specialist in this matter and make no claims to know the minds of the feds ever! It's one reason I incorporated. There's no question now about my business structure or that I am truly independent. Jan Wright At 11:02 AM 7/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >Has anyone else recently had trouble getting paid from University departments? > >I've just received some unsettling news from our local University Accounts >Payable and Temporary Employment offices having to do with new IRS >regulations for paying independent contractors. > >Apparently there have been meetings among University Press personnel >nationwide on this issue, with indexers being the subject of concern. There >is more than the average amount of federal auditing going on having to do >with Independent Contractor status --and indexers may be bearing the brunt >of the scrutiny. > >I have been assured that my check will arrive next week --the paperwork has >finally been released. But I'm curious to know if anyone else has >encountered this problem and what if anything ASI might be able to do about >it if the issue becomes more widespread. > >Lillian Ashworth >ashworth@pullman.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 12:10:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Potential Payment Problems At 11:02 AM 7/1/1999 -0700, Lillian Ashworth wrote: >I've just received some unsettling news from our local University Accounts >Payable and Temporary Employment offices having to do with new IRS >regulations for paying independent contractors. I'm pretty "up" on tax regulations, as one of the projects I index is a detailed tax preparation manual. As far as I know, there ARE no "new regulations" for paying independent contractors...just the same old ones we've lived with for years. And there is nothing about any of the regulations--new or old--that should hold up your payment for even a day...so long as your IC status has been proven. >Apparently there have been meetings among University Press personnel >nationwide on this issue, with indexers being the subject of concern. There >is more than the average amount of federal auditing going on having to do >with Independent Contractor status --and indexers may be bearing the brunt >of the scrutiny. Yes, this IS true. The IRS has been auditing companies whom they suspect are attempting to evade withholding requirements by assigning IC status to people who really are employees. But this is a problem that involves the company (or the university press) and the IRS...and it should not affect your payment. The company or press should have a statement on file for each of its ICs, providing the information necessary to establish IC status. Once that is done, payment should come as always. I suspect that in at least some cases, this "new requirement" is simply an excuse for a bolluxed accounting department. Most of the companies I work for have me sign such a statement at the beginning of their tax year (usually, but not always, January 1) and it covers me--and them--for the entire year. Some smaller companies don't bother with this formality, which is not actually REQUIRED by the IRS but does avoid problems later if on file. I've never, in over 25 years of being an IC, had a problem getting paid because of my status...and have never had any IRS inquiries about it, either. If this came up for me, it would take me about five minutes to fax a list of clients, plus information showing that I direct my own work, I occasionally hire others to work for me, I do not work on company premises, I have a business license and a resale license (state tax ID), and any other proof that might be required. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:19:22 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Potential Payment Problems Lillian, I don't have an answer, but I have heard about the issue from another university press. Almost two years ago when we had a local ASI meeting in Columbia, Mo., the managing editor of the Univ. of Missouri Press attended. As I recall, she asked the freelancers among us if we would mind additional paperwork to verify that we are independent contractors, and we said that we would not. I've never done any work for that press, so I don't know what kind of paperwork they require. None of the university presses I do work for (i.e., the ones that pay me rather than having the author pay me) require any paperwork at this point. I get more paperwork from some of my trade publisher clients. FWIW, Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:00:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Potential Payment Problems I've been getting the typical forms to sign, saying I'm an independent contractor and not an employee, for at least the past 4 years. Recently, however, three university presses have also requested that I not include information about shipping charges, number of pages indexed, price per/page, or anything other than a .00 figure (no 435.75, round it up to 436.00). Each of the presses involved told me it was because of IRS regulations rather than that they just didn't want to deal with all the perhaps-unnecessary details of what they were paying for. All three requests came in the last 8 or 9 months. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:46:39 -0400 Reply-To: Kevin Broccoli Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: home pgs and site indexes Saying that the home page should be enough for users, if the site is constructed properly is equivalent to saying that a TOC for a print publication should also be enough if there were multiple cross-references within the text. But we all know that it's not enough, hence the index. As Bob Richardson wrote, not all users/readers search the same way. Indexes are designed for those who know precisely what they want, and yet for those who do not. Although sites can and should be constructed so that they are easier to browse, and although browsing (or clicking through the site) is certainly an important method of searching, it can never take the place of a well-written index. Broccoli -----Original Message----- From: Seth A. Maislin Sent: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:05:21 -0400 To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents Regarding site maps, I've heard usability experts argue effectively that site maps are not advantageous. Most users enter a web site looking for something in particular. They should be able to discover a path there from the home page, something unambiguously defined by the link choices, the architecture, the design scheme, and the locator text. The home page *is* a map. It should provide a sense of scope, depth, and direction. If a user has to leave the home page to go to a site map, then you have already failed. Why create two maps for the same information, unless one of them doesn't do a good enough job? Designing a good home page (map) is an intellectual process when you are mapping information and structure. Site maps are a lot like tables of contents, except that tables of contents are linear by page number and site maps deal with tree structures. Thus if somebody can't find what they want in the index (what the home page and subsequent navigational pages can provide), of course they go to the table of contents (the site map) to try browsing. - Seth ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 15:52:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Independent contractor status I'm wondering how the number of clients factors in to the independent contractor status. That is, if I work for only one (maybe two) clients but work on my own premises, with my own equipment, directing my own work, will I still be considered an independent contractor? Does anyone know where I can find the official IRS rules on i.c. status? Thanks -- Teddy D. Teddy Diggs DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:15:45 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Aganita Varkentine (S&T Onsite)" Subject: Re: Independent contractor status Here is the url for searching all IRS pubs and instructions. http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/plain/forms_pubs/index.html. You will find info on independent contractors in Publication 533, on page 3, -----Original Message----- From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM [mailto:DTDIGGS@AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 12:52 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Independent contractor status I'm wondering how the number of clients factors in to the independent contractor status. That is, if I work for only one (maybe two) clients but work on my own premises, with my own equipment, directing my own work, will I still be considered an independent contractor? Does anyone know where I can find the official IRS rules on i.c. status? Thanks -- Teddy D. Teddy Diggs DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:26:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" Subject: Re: Independent contractor status If you wish to know what the IRS is looking for in determining 'Independent Contractor' status check out this site. The IRS publication in question is " Circular 15a". Basically it's a 'twenty questions' approach. Even if you have never had this problem it wouldn't hurt to know how this works. Brian M. Peck Technical Librarian/Indexer North Carolina General Assembly brianp@ms.ncga.state.nc.us -----Original Message----- From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM [mailto:DTDIGGS@AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 3:52 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Independent contractor status I'm wondering how the number of clients factors in to the independent contractor status. That is, if I work for only one (maybe two) clients but work on my own premises, with my own equipment, directing my own work, will I still be considered an independent contractor? Does anyone know where I can find the official IRS rules on i.c. status? Thanks -- Teddy D. Teddy Diggs DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:31:41 -0400 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Organization: Focus Information Services Subject: Re: A Comment on Site Maps Interesting perspective, Bob (and great post). I agree on the principles of maintaining multiple paths of success. However, I do not feel that the site map can offer anything that the web site structure itself cannot. It's like talking to a librarian first and then, when the librarian can't help you, you go rooting through the card catalog on your own. Site maps are not intelligent things. Earlier the comparison was made between site maps and concordances, and that's quite true. One thing a site map offers is an illusion of a bird's-eye view. But each element seen in that view has only a title, and no sense of scope or size or even belonging. A site map has one other thing to offer: it allows you to skip navigational steps, at the performance cost of browsing the site map itself. Consider a site like MCI's, which starts with a home page and allows you to click and click and click until you get to the information you want: if there are restrictions on to those 5-cent Sundays. But users of the web aren't afraid to click and click and click, as long as they know they are going in the right direction. So although the site map can "speed things up," it's not a speed that users appreciate unless they regularly desire the same information. (Once I know the answer to the 5-cent Sunday question, I have no reason to return to that page. However, if I want to look up my account status every week, I hope MCI designed a site that lets me get there in just a few clicks; and it did.) So let's go over some of these excellent concerns, shall we? :-) Just for fun. > 1) As a general philosophy, I am uneasy about "expert" opinion in matters that are difficult to quantify (or even "objectify" - if that is not too ugly a construct!) ... Real life is a blend of shades of grey. I couldn't agree more. The usability studies that I've seen all regard the same type of web site: commercial. There are many other sites out there, and as indexers we are probably more interested in the informational sites and online resources. The ASI web page qualifies. Intranets also qualify, which is good, because there is a larger job market for indexers who want to do web design among intranets than public web sites. They are also more interesting, because the audience and scope of information are strictly defined. Instead, we have to consider what we know about ourselves as web users and indexers; in fact, in our jobs we represent the audience. I know that for me, an experienced web user, I like to get to the information as quickly as possible when I know what I want. When I don't know what I want, I want clear and unambiguous choices. > 2) ... I learned early on that most clients looking for information hadn't any clear idea of what they wanted. ... Thus we have the celebrated "reference interview" in which the client, with the assistance of the librarian and/or the online search process, refines the query through a process of iteration until the desired information is located. Unfortunately, most web sites don't allow for this type of interactivity -- at least, not real-time. (You can always write the webmaster and ask questions, if you're willing to wait for a response.) So the web designer is forced to predict as many questions as possible. This is a subjective and challenging process, and it's bound to miss something. However, good indexers and librarians are particular adept at this anticipation process. > 3) ... If "unambiguous" does not apply to the question, and if many (probably most) visitors do not have razor-sharp, precisely-formulated questions, then how can the home page to a complex website be made narrowly precise a priori? This is exactly the challenge. As indexers, we meet that challenge every time we write an index. There are many different ways to divide up information that are rarely used in book indexes. Consider dividing a web site up by audience. The question, "Are you a current subscriber?" will help narrow the structure quickly, since "I want to check my account" won't be asked by a nonsubscriber. Similarly, choosing between "business telephone service," "personal telephone service," and "internet service" is a great way of breaking up the audience. Sure, there are always going to be a few people who can't choose because they are thinking of a different category or a same category by a different name, because they consider themselves straddling multiple categories, or because they are simply being stubborn and don't want to have to make this choice to get their particular questions answered. There wil always be cracks for someone to call through. Thus Bob is right: a website can't be made narrowly precise. But neither can a book index. So we try our hardest, and settle for what we can accomplish. But my argument is that a site index doesn't provide anything that can't be provided elsewhere, and better. A site index will simply demonstrate the same choices. If you use the "business/personal/internet" choices mentioned above, the site map will just repeat those choices. It also shows you what's behind them. But consider this: if you have to go to the site map to see what's behind the choices, instead of just choosing in the first place, what went wrong? I'd say the choices were bad. Consider the user who has all three services (business, personal, and internet) and just wants another copy of her all-inclusive invoice. She can't choose one of those three options, because they don't help her. But if she goes to the site map, what will she discover? That she can get a copy of her invoice by clicking *any* of the three choices and following other options. In other words, even if the site map hadn't been there, the user would have been forced to accidentally go in the right direction, or else give up. With or without a site map, then, we have a poor site design. On the other hand, if the site designers had added a fourth choice, "Account Status," then the user would have been happy -- and again, never needed the site map. > 4) A properly-structured website, in my opinion, must provide some accessible path (yellow brick road) down which the visitor/searcher can skip, stopping now and then to smell a serendipitous rose! In short, each home page for each website is Different, and no single orthodoxy need apply! Some websites are well served by three links; others might require very careful, thoughtful structuring that reflects both the complexity and richness of the site and the likely needs of the visitor. Exactly my point. Site maps don't do that. Site maps simply portray the structure, but they do not improve the structure. People who think site maps can work as alternatives to bad structure are wrong. Better methods are needed. Whether usability experts can figure out what those methods are, well, that's another question altogether. - Seth P.S. I should apologize to MCI for talking about their site. MCI does a halfway decent job of getting you where you want to go with its choices, although I think the site is a little graphics-heavy and too full of "company attitude." Personally, where I've had trouble is with not getting enough information. Although I can find a page that talks about such-and-such a calling plan, I don't learn nearly enough about that plan for my tastes. So the structure of site is okay, but the quantity of information on the site is, in my humble opinion, lacking. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 18:16:14 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jan Mucciarone Subject: Corel Installation I am trying to Install Office 7 on my PC using the CD-Rom. I was able to complete all steps except the 2nd one - to install Corel Draw, Sidekicks, etc. I keep getting the message "Application Running - Close application before setup can continue - Desktop Application Director (Quick). Where do I find Desktop Application Director and how do I close it? I am using Windows 98 on both my laptop and my PC. The laptop worked fine but on my PC I was not able to downline this step but I was able to download Wordperfect and others. Can someone help - please? Thanks, Jan Mucciarone Elite Indexing Services janmucc@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:12:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Vines Little Subject: Re: Corel Installation Desktop Application Director is a shortcut bar which is probably in your startup tray--the little tray at the bottom on the right-hand side. I got rid of mine long ago but if memory serves there is the face of a man as the first item click on this and you should get an option to close out. If that doesn't work, go to explore and find windows, start menu, program, startup and delete the shortcut there. You can always add it back by choosing restore from the recycle box. If this is Greek let me know and I will do a step-by-step ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 19:46:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Mullinix Subject: Message sent in error OOPS - as if there aren't enough messages on this list, I mistakenly sent one when I really wanted the server. Sorry Barb Mullinix "Will index for plants." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 20:02:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jan Mucciarone Subject: Re: Corel Installation Hi, Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I am still confused. There is no little man in my startup tray and when I go to Explore the only applications director that I find is the Corel Desktop Applications Director. Is that what I'm supposed to delete. It is also on my laptop but that installed fine without my having to delete anything. I can live without the Corel Draw but I really wanter to add Sidekicks to my PC as well as my laptop. Again, thanks for your help. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:09:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Independent contractor status To D. Teddy Diggs and others, If a freelancer really is working for only one client, it may be to that individual's benefit to be an employee rather than an independent contractor, even if a strong argument can be made for the independent contractor status. As an employee, you don't have to pay the federal self-employment tax as well as possible state and local unincorporated business taxes. The most important advantage is that you may qualify for company benefits, including medical insurance, pension plans, paid vacation, holidays and sick days. Also, if you are working regularly for one company, you will be eligible for unemployment insurance when the work stops. When I started freelancing, in 1971, the advantages went to the freelancer, but now the situation is reversed. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:25:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Vines Little Subject: Re: Corel Installation OK I'm at work where I can look at a setup instead of working from memory--in your systems tray bottom right you should see an icon that has four arrows pointing toward the center--right click on this icon and click on exit DAD that will close it temporarily and allow you to load what you need. It will still appear the next time you boot up. But this is the application they want you to close. Let me know if that doesn't work. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:45:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith McQuay Subject: Re: Independent contractor status Have any of you ever been challenged on your freelance status? Or know if a case even? Keith McQuay Foreword Indexing Services 613-278-0426 http://Foreword.pair.com foreword@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:49:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: OT: fax problem solved Thanks to those who wrote with suggestions about my dad's fax problem (fax would not call long-distance ...). Turned out my stepmother set up a separate phone line for what she thought would be Internet use only, and got a special rate for phone lines that do not make long-distance calls (except to 800 numbers). I didn't know such things existed -- obviously I do not have teenage kids! Anyhow, it comes in the category of Things We Shudda Thunk Of. It would have helped if the telephone error message had said something more helpful, but *that's* clearly far too much to hope for. Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:16:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: scheduling projects Christy wrote: >Does anybody have any advice or experiences to share on scheduling freelance projects? That is, how do you make sure you have enough projects to keep busy (and financially sound) without running into overlaps and conflicts? I respond: I once had a dream that there was a wolf on my back porch. It was trying to get in and eat the dog food. :) I generally tend to take on too much rather than not enough. That's why I'll be spending the 4th of July weekend indexing. I used to spend most weekends indexing frantically but over the years I've learned several things I need to know to avoid too much overlap. I know how many pages per day I can reasonably do (this number goes up yearly). The number of pages I can do in a day seems to bear little relation to the number of pages other peopIe can do; you need to determine this number for yourself. I know indexers who can do twice as much as me (and stay sane!) and also indexers whose limit is half my limit. Take into consideration the type of project and the author's writing style, too. I have an idea of how many "final editing jobs" per week I can do, since this part of indexing seems to use a different sort of mental energy. Three little books can take more energy than one big one even if the page count is the same. I try to determine how many pages per month I'll need to do to meet my financial obligations. I try to say no after I've taken on the maximum number of pages/editing jobs/dollars needed. This is the hard part! Then something changes. A book comes late, or early, has far fewer, or far more, pages. I get a request to do a "simple" subject index and find out I'm responsible for merging my index with a substandard index (on an unreadable disk) by someone else.... or I get a book that challenges my comprehension skills, or one that challenges my ability to stay awake! I suggest keeping records to find what works for you. I keep records of time spent editing, hours spent doing data entry, hours worked per day, per week, per year... I average them all, trying to determine the "sweet spot" where there won't be too much or too little work. I compare last year's numbers to this year's. That's how I know that my indexing capacity is still on the rise... I make a note of the weeks that were "too much" so I can determine when to back off and JUST SAY NO to another project, or to know that I can meet the deadline if I say yes to one that might overlap with what I already have. Good luck! Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:56:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Harris, Susan L" Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 29 Jun 1999 to 30 Jun 1999 Reply to msg from Richard Owens-Chemical Symbols Richard, It sounds like you just need to create super- or subscripts. This is actually fairly easy with Word. 1. Select the letter(s) or number(s) you with to raise or drop. 2. To superscript: Press Ctrl/Shift and the + key. To subscript: Press Ctrl and the + key. This also can be done from the Format menu: Format --> Font --> Select superscript or subscript from the list of option. Also, for inserting specialized symbols into text, you can click Insert --> Symbol and by moving through the various fonts and subsets, get a wide range of predefined symbols to insert into the text. Susan Harris -----Original Message----- From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:55 PM To: Recipients of INDEX-L digests Subject: INDEX-L Digest - 29 Jun 1999 to 30 Jun 1999 There are 29 messages totalling 1239 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Web Indexing PDF Documents (2) 2. rates + "cutesy logos" (3) 3. subentries starting with for (or in) 4. Chemical symbols (3) 5. Official Names of Companies (8) 6. CINDEX/Win question... (2) 7. multi-volume work 8. AAUP web page has job ads 9. Arabic names (4) 10. Underline disappeared from New Record box (CINDEX/Windows) 11. pay rates 12. An article of interest from Computer Currents 13. Dear Debra not Dear Graf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:45:35 -0500 From: Karen Powers Subject: Web Indexing PDF Documents Hi! I need to know what tool to use to create a Web index to go over about 30 PDF documents. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks! Karen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:30:15 -0500 From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" I use the "bookman" logo (a little guy in a cap with a feather, carrying a huge stack of large books) that appears on my web site -- and also on my business card, my brochure, and my invoices. I have a strong dislike of "cutesy" in any form (yellow 'smile' buttons make me grit my teeth), but the logo I use is mid-19th century (and I'm sort of an antiquarian), therefore in the public domain, and it's applicable to anything having to do with books -- and I do copyediting, some freelance writing and documentation work, and even occasional book-hunting and book-selling. I didn't use a pictorial logo at all for many years, until I just happened to come across this one in a collection of clip art. By the same token, I chose to go with just a plain business name rather than something inventive... or maybe I just couldn't think of a good one! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. |I agree w/ all that Sonsie had to say on this matter. However, sometimes a |"cutesy logo" isn't so bad. | |I know, for example, that Maria Coughlin uses a little cat logo. |When I saw |the logo recently (at the Mass Society of Indexers conference) on the cover |of some folders, it didn't even have her name there, but I knew immediately |who they came from. :-) And Maria is certainly *not* suffering for work. | |I use a broccoli logo with little feet. I was originally hesitant about |this, but many fellow indexers here on Index-L urged me on. I find that |publishers say, 'yes we received your info, I remember the little broccoli |spear!' | |Well, I'm being picky here, but I just think that using a logo that really |sticks in the minds of individuals to whom we market can really go a long |way. | |-Kevin Broccoli ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:37:48 -0000 From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: subentries starting with for (or in) Glenda Browne wrote: < 'For' can be ambiguous, as it also means 'to make it happen'. eg 'caffeine, for weight loss' means you want the weight loss, but 'aspirin, for headache' means you *don't* want the headache. 'In' was also useful in entries such as 'aspirin, in pregnancy' where the pregnancy was neither caused by, nor avoided by, the aspirin. This reminds me of when I went into a pharmacy in Italy and requested something 'per le zanzare' (for the mosquitoes). The pharmacist kindly corrected me. 'No, signora, *contra* le zanzare' (against the mosquitoes). Should we have entries reading, e.g., 'aspirin, against headache'? Or does this sound weird? Christine ************************************************************ Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB cshuttle@dircon.co.uk ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:06:33 +0100 From: Richard Owens Subject: Re: Chemical symbols Dear All I would appreciate help with a small problem. In the index I am working on at the moment, the author uses a number of simple chemical symbols, like for Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen Isotopes. Science is not my subject and I just can't work out how to get my computer to cope with these symbols, ie to put the appropriate number either above or below the letters. I use Word 97. Would it be acceptable to highlight these symbols on the hard copy and leave it for the publisher to do?? Many thanks Richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:31:46 -0400 From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I generally go with what the company calls itself when communicating with the public. It is the same rule as for people. When in doubt, I look the company up in the telephone book (having the Manhattan book is handy, but almost any big phone book will probably do). Specifically, the company the New York Times calls "International Business Machine Corporation" is listing in the white pages as "IBM." I'm sure that the company made that choice, not Bell Atlantic (or, going back a few years, NYNEX or the New York Telephone Company). If there is any ambiguity, you may have to go with the full name. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:34:00 EDT From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: CINDEX/Win question... > I'll be doing one volume at a time, of course, and I intend to do each > volume as a separate index file and merge them at the end (for easier > editing). So I need to be able to set the "automatic text" (or whatever it > is) it for the duration of each volume; that way, I won't have to keep > remembering to type the volume-prefix. I might be able to run a > search/replace at the end of each volume's input, but I'd rather have it > happen automatically. > IMO, using search/replace at the end of all the final editing for a volume is simpler. Otherwise, correcting a page number is likely to affect the volume number also (I'm often a clumsy typer) and require more concentration during entry. Using the search and replace patterns is a little clumsy, but my manual almost automatically falls open to the example on p.228-229. Janet Russell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:44:22 LCL From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: multi-volume work At 07:36 PM 6/25/99 EDT, you wrote: >Has anyone had experience with working on periodicals that started almost >with Adam (well not exactly)? I am starting on a project involving monthly >volumes that started out in the middle of a year with the April issue as vol. >I, #1, and following issues continued #2, #3, etc., and was each paginated >from 1 to 8. After two years, volume III, still had #1 commencing in April, >but the paginationwas changed and ran from 1 to 320 through the full >"fiscal" year. This patten was continued for a long time, then the "fiscal" >year was changed to calendar year and ran from Jan. to Dec., and pages were >again numbered starting with page 1 each month. To top things off, there was >a two month period following a format change where there were about 12 pages >un-numbered. I suppose my introductory note could mention the un-numbered >pages and I could arbitrarily letter them from A to J, but the changes in >page numbering have me worried. Any ideas? >John A. John Abbott: If you use locators in a volume/issue/page# format such as "III.1.76, III.1.225" or "III.1: 76, 225" the locators will, of course, reflect the oddities of the changes in page numbering and volume numbering but this won't be a problem. Alternatively, if you use a month/year/page# locator format such as "Apr75: 12, 136", you can avoid reflecting the numbering oddities and, more importantly, (1) name the issues in the way in which most readers will probably think of them and tend to look them up, and (2) greatly improve index readability IMO. The choice of format is for your publisher to make, and so far mine have chosen the latter. As for the unnumbered pages, how about using page numbers within parentheses to suggest in the locators themselves (as well as in a headnote) that the pages are actually unnumbered? Michael Brackney Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:54:07 -0400 From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I might query the editor before spending a great deal of time searching the Web for names. I'd also look at whether or not the author is being inconsistent throughout the book. And, what would the index user be likely to look for? In the past I tended to research the "correct" name but recently have been using the author's terminology UNLESS the author is inconsistent, in which case I try to determine the answer from the user's point of view, researching only if I deem it necessary. If the author refers to Toyota, and the real name is Toyota Motors Incorporated, the user is going to find the name regardless of how you enter it. In my experience, if Toyota Motors, European Division is that important, the author will be specific. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:20:07 EDT From: Helen Schinske Subject: AAUP web page has job ads Just heard about this -- probably old news to a lot of you. The AAUP web page at http://aaupnet.org/ (note: NOT "aaup.net," which is something else) now has job ads posted, which are useful to freelancers too, because they list specific job duties such as "Hire and supervise freelance editors, proofreaders, and indexers ..." -- BINGO! You know they hire indexers, and you know the job title of the person to write to -- no confusion about "should I write to the Production Editor or the Managing Editor, or the Assistant M.E., or ..." Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:39:05 -0400 From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Arabic names Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways to alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting and for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as Jamal in the text. Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know which way, if any, is au courant. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:48:33 +0100 From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: CINDEX/Win question... Date sent: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:31:07 -0500 You can get the whole of the number to stay in the locator field, but not just the volume number, as far as I know. Regards _John Sampson_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:26:21 +1000 From: Brian V Taylor Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies -----Original Message----- From: Debra Graf To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, 29 June 1999 9:17 Subject: Official Names of Companies Hello, You might have tried this by now. There is a government department that companies must declare their official trading name through. e.g. K.F.C trades under Kentucky Fried Chicken in some states in Australia, but under KFC in others. This is because the name KFC had been taken by someone else before Colonel Sanders' company could use it. Many companies trade under completely different names than their public name. The exact name of the government department in your area I do not know but the local Consumer Affairs Department might be able to tell you. Thank you, Ngaire ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:31:12 -0500 From: Stephanie Reymann Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I would choose the name (in whatever form) most frequently used in the text as the main posting. If necessary, I would make a cross reference from other names that the reader would expect to find. I would always consider the audience. For most books with a general audience, I would end it there without doing all the time-consuming research you are currently doing. Stephanie J. Reymann Indexing Solutions sreymann@IndexingSolutions.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Debra Graf > > I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names > are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). > Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name > of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft > Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division > of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", > "Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and > "Inc."?) > > I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and > I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to > log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, > get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I > start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. > Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I > think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look > at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that > doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with > that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official > Websites of the various companies. > > How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out > there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! > > Debbie Graf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:17:51 -0400 From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Underline disappeared from New Record box (CINDEX/Windows) Well, the craziest thing just happened ... I have been editing an index and the U button in the NEW Record Box just disappeared. I have an F (which is default font and I can't do anything to it, never saw that before, I don't think), B, and I (as usual). WHAT IN THE HECK IS GOING ON? HOW DO I GET THE U BACK? Help fast! I can underline with keystrokes, but .... Cynthia ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony." --Careme ****************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:56:29 -0700 From: Luana Heikes Subject: pay rates June 29, 1999 Hi, I'm new to the list. I work as a salaried employee indexing and abstracting journal articles for a database. We have several contracting indexers and I would like to know the average rate of pay for independent indexers--basically the industry standards. Our indexers do all data entry -- including all bibliographic information, geographical areas, taxonomic and common names of species, use a closed thesaurus for our indexing terms, and write a three-to-five -sentence abstract that covers the gist of each article/paper. Thanks for any information you can send me. Luana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:06:14 -0700 From: "David M. Brown" Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents > Do I Have to Draw You a Map? > Site guides and indexes made easy > By: Elizabeth Powell Crowe > First Published: June 29, 1999 > URL: http://www.currents.net/magazine/national/1712/nets1712.html I read Ms. Crowe's article with interest, and I certainly agree with her point that a good web site requires a good TOC and index. The article is actually a review of a site-mapping program called SurfMap. I like graphical representations of large web sites, because they frequently do a better job than a TOC of showing the site's organization. SurfMap sounds like an easy way to create site maps, and I'd definitely give it a try. The reviewer goes on to describe how SurfMap also creates an index. From the description, though, it looks like what you actually get is a concordance, rather than an index. I still don't believe a concordance is as useful as a real index, compiled by a human being who has analyzed the site's content, judged entries for their value in context, recognized likely alternative entries, evaluated appropriate depth of indexing across the site, and ensured consistent treatment of entries. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:56:33 EDT From: Debra Graf Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Well there's a point from Keith! I thought it was my job as an indexer to seek out the full name of the company, just as I would seek out a person's full name. An example would be "Einstein" (who is listed in this book). He is listed as just "Einstein", but I have listed him in the index as "Einstein, Albert." What do others think? And, thanks, Karen for the "Hoovers" suggestion, and Cindy for the Corporate Information site. Very helpful. Thanks, Debbie Graf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:16:02 +0000 From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I agree with Keith. While there are obviously some exceptions, specific to editor requests or misleading name information, I tend to use the name as it is written in the text. If there are several versions in the text (i.e. Ford; Ford Motor; Ford Motor Company) I will select the more complete name used in the text to put in the index. If the text consistently uses a "nickname" for the company then I would use a cross reference between the official company name and the "nickname" used in the text just as you would for an acronym. While a good index should obviously contain accurate names it should also reflect the text. This is yet another balancing act for the indexer :-). Best, Sylvia Coates Keith McQuay wrote: > Debra, > I don't think you can or should be any more specific than the text. How > can you extrapolate if it's not clear in the text what exact entity is being > discussed? I suspect that if corporate entities are not precicely named in > the text it is because it is not appropriate or necessary given the nature > of the work and you'd be putting words in the author's mouth to attempt to > clarify in the index. I would make cross-references if there are other > wildly different names in common use but that's all. > > Keith McQuay > Foreword Indexing Services > 613-278-0426 > http://Foreword.pair.com > foreword@bigfoot.com > > ---------- > >From: Debra Graf > >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > >Subject: Official Names of Companies > >Date: Tue, Jun 29, 1999, 7:17 AM > > > > >Everyone, > > > >I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names > >are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). > >Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name > >of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft > >Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division > >of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", > >"Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and > >"Inc."?) > > > >I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and > >I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to > >log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, > >get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I > >start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. > >Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I > >think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look > >at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that > >doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with > >that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official > >Websites of the various companies. > > > >How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out > >there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! > > > >Debbie Graf > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:18:00 -0400 From: "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" Subject: Re: Arabic names As someone who has dealt with Arabic names from the reader/researcher end I prefer 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) This is what most researchers would be used to and would be looking for. Brian (See Dear, I told you that degree would come in handy some day, and I only have ten more years of payments on the student loan.) Technical Librarian/Indexer Legislative Library North Carolina General Assembly brianp@ms.ncga.state.nc.us -----Original Message----- From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby [mailto:dwindex@LOUISA.NET] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 6:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Arabic names Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways to alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting and for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as Jamal in the text. Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know which way, if any, is au courant. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:30:24 +0800 From: Ling Heang Subject: Re: Arabic names ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- >2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) I was brought up in an Islamic country and (1) & (2) would not be the = way it's being indexed.=20 'Muhammad Hamid' is the first name and 'al-Jamal' is the name of = Muhammad Hamid's father. I hope it makes sense as muslims don't have = surnames.=20 Thus, muslim name should be indexed as it appeared - 'Muhammad Hamid = al-Jamal'. (not sure what the editor will comment about that) However, = to conform to the "English" indexing style, (2) is more appropriate. Ling Heang Email: HEANGSL@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby [SMTP:dwindex@LOUISA.NET] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 6:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Arabic names Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways = to alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting = and for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as = Jamal in the text. Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know which way, if any, is au courant. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IicOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA9AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAWgAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAEluZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNj dXNzaW9uIEdyb3VwAFNNVFAASU5ERVgtTEBCSU5HVk1CLkNDLkJJTkdIQU1UT04uRURVAAAAHgAC MAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACIAAABJTkRFWC1MQEJJTkdWTUIuQ0MuQklOR0hBTVRP Ti5FRFUAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAdAAAAJ0luZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNjdXNzaW9u IEdyb3VwJwAAAAACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOklOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5DQy5CSU5HSEFNVE9O LkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAGwAAAEluZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNjdXNzaW9uIEdy b3VwAAACAfdfAQAAAFoAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABJbmRleGVyJ3MgRGlzY3Vz c2lvbiBHcm91cABTTVRQAElOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5DQy5CSU5HSEFNVE9OLkVEVQAAAAMA/V8B AAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACQWgBBIABABEAAABSRTogQXJhYmljIG5hbWVzAGcF AQWAAwAOAAAAzwcGAB4AFgAeABgAAwBJAQEggAMADgAAAM8HBgAeABYAEAAsAAMATwEBCYABACEA AAA5MjQ2NTUxRjM5MkZEMzExQTI2RjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADEBgEDkAYArA0AACEAAAALAAIAAQAA AAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYEB0FwXDvgEeAHAA AQAAABEAAABSRTogQXJhYmljIG5hbWVzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+wwUXUh9VRpMvORHTom9E RVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAATAAAAaGVhbmdAaWluZXQubmV0LmF1 AAADAAYQR+evYgMABxBVBAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAMUpBTUFMLE1VSEFNTUFESEFNSURBTC0yQUwt SkFNQUwsTVVIQU1NQURIQU1JRChBTFBIQUJFVElaRURPTkopSVdBU0JST1VHSFRVUElOQU5JU0xB TUlDQ09VTlRSWUFORCgxKQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAJYKAACSCgAAMBcAAExaRnXzWj1MAwAKAHJjcGcx MjVyMgxgYzEDMAEHC2BukQ4QMDMzDxZmZQ+STwH3AqQDYwIAY2gKwHOEZXQC0XBycTIAAJIqCqFu bxJQIDAB0IUB0DYPoDA1MDQUIfMB0BQQNH0HbQKDAFAD1PsR/xMLYhPhFFATshj0FNCvBxMCgAKR COY7CW8wGt/6ZQ4wNRwKHSEc3x3pG/T/HhIcfyBPIA0fjx2/HA8QYPwyOCXaJvEmrye5G/Qn4r8m TyofKd0pXyePK1Q5DlAfLqQwASgjMAACgnN0eepsB5BoCeB0AAATUAPwUGRjdGwKsVwyWGGYZGp1 MXAFEGdoBUI7FjIMAWMJwDJgAzBzbnxleBcwB7AFsADAAnNzsQBQc2IyFFAxYGET8PRcawngcAuQ Mj8yowhg6zKQC4BlMaB2OWABQDObvwwwNGQoADdABKALgGcn8ek05mJhFxBkAiA1oDVG5zHQM5A7 kSAxMTMOUDaf/zevOL8AUTn8AKA0bjx/PYb/MSQPwD6PP59Arw5QOe9DD9tEHz2zMwKCExBjNmBL oZMzkD2wdGk5kCBEARCoYXVsBUBQCsBhCcDgYXBoIEYCITYkJUDoZmktD5A4AUA5MFAz60cPMqNi CyByCVBSUhag2VJSdzQlQRcAcAHQTXJ/M79Kn0umT9BOkAUQAjAtQ08wA2E6IFRvV7BTKHViagWQ dFewRGHodGU6NiQ2T/9RD1If/1MvVDkxwD2jDiFLoTq2DlCbVW9WflI5gRcBIEg9kfsEkDYkN1lv Wn9bj1ydOQ8vXb8PkGlwCNBiCrB0OP9J+g9URhBfv2DGagBh0AtQvHkvT0BcsAsRYkVzNiT/KABj P2RPZV9cr1RPa19sb+9tdVfSV3RYqTlvvzM/AzAdabM5c590r3qgRG9j/nUHgAIwBdBPAEzWcqRN tWMMYAlQY2Yye6hNUUjseXAEkGdxaz4UFjFu4P4zRnFncIGCeC95P3rPSz35gSAgTAQAT3RfkUZQ DiCfgg+DH4QvhT9fkCBCBHD+eVfANXEaAxMQZ3AxcAGRzzGgAACM4ozUZW0LUVjAo4fAWUA3NDMv 8TQoAH+M4gCQjkGNZWezb0Bnwm7nFsBrQGezamNvMWfCAhD6bAkAd5HlMXAKwAGQVsD7ksUKsGMK YJDEC4ABAAIwzwHhZ7NYwDWAXCcToJXh3DApAoKQ1H0gYmIBleHrPgECAGIHMHNLoYFXbwNvkcCM 5QzBbwIgloKGgW46YQeAIJexjOKOoTM1RDQxDiA2MjOMiG//YfE1ARcgjTic5ps/nJsFoP51lQFv QDZgGhCIQoegh+D7cVEBgG5YMABgCfBNoH0A/wIBNeBeUp6AooExgIBgDlDydgiQd2uUwWtAo/IE 8P8HQBBhAUAOAHEiPYKlVQIQHm8FQhchEvKOJiBDOtRcXFcAb07hbU8wAxCbB5CoAE0N4ANgc28B gFwgTwEgDeCegFyptkXrAMADEC5LcHSXwBcQh+DbNSFncngBQKJRbjHQGvB3q1RONJlQIBLzAIAF kGz+dkGhRtAOcDXgreKTMq5y/5TEAcGt4RbgD3AAAEbQDND5AZAgLoyErfYOUK6STnD/iDCvD7Af sS8PwEbQBYGyz9uz37TvbGtARtBsso+3T324VSmxXCVAti+7D7hEYvwgKAKRvC+uI1lQud++n/+/ r8C/rlBjEMICrt/Db8R//7FcKADCD8ePyJ/Jr65QeAD/xo/MH80vzjQK+QMwh5+Ir/uJvQKiIAqF 0vyBH9Pf1O8l1f4+ApAxLgyCIEqrmtAHQCwF0HUW4G0AwG9twZrQNREHQC3XNtyiMu/c9N6x3V/e YygHQE8QAaBpFyBpegmAIAIg3UApP9c/05/ab9t/1sEKhUkgH22QBCBxIAhg5gJ1cCAz4+EDkUlz C2DecGMgHaBzcowQAHDhgTEpIKomzaAy6oB3CGBsNSDnE1AFQJcwIHQx0OfBjBDzTcAAEHF1ppAT gOfxjpBrPdGUwngJgC7XJgqGbP/slN3M7HbosAQg69Ju0BcA/wVAmsPqIu7m4BbwTprDqXBv71/s lk5A69Fy7eDnsGj2b4Bg7EEgAMBGoAQgFxB3rgHeoAQgbeWwZ3Ci8CDfS3HsdgVAFuBN8XMIcJrC 8nPt7lRo5bDgkPhE8ZT/McDrE+uh7XX4AvchTwCAYP8KwOJRrDJLQE8g7t/eSPLr/e3gKOti+eHr 8RbgBUDxAv8JgE3ABbEWcJJw6ZHeAH1C35mwZ0HrwViw6oBI5DBh4v/gkJzQ6ZGRIDXRBWLxAm9A tmQJQOyURQ9wjOFoJeB/BrftZD3CMXPgkOrC8NFtfwMg8dH+EBGgF3CYAFjALv/uDN7n1vKGcD3R YlEPcO4M/6qzV7AV8qQA6zAQwOswPbD9GpB5EvIPIaRA8XHW42JAAFlQRVJMSU5LB/dBquCc0DpI RUFOUEdTTECX8Gemci7/A6EMNRey/sCZoA7DOpGkQAI5eqAA0MnqefkAus4RjIIAqgCgS6kLAgAV 4AMV4QrgFO02FeFtAGEAAGkAbAB0AG8AADoASABFAEEAAE4ARwBTAEwAiEAAYhfBZwBmGCHjGDAY EC4AYxghF5AV4P+MgA6S6zBycE5xT6B+En8G/xHfA7Aa9NcXC23jU6uy0PIf5C/lPxvBNPITVGJr bXJrkyMgX32AquBYoWH0fS0ksk9JoaRA8xB9cPP3gIcwZ2Uks+Lf2ENjDP9vICBvcL9xz2c/aE9p X2pvf9aVIsVXc90DTqBOYLigQ83t4ET58BRhLVf3gNHwAYwQW1NNVFA6ZAMo8O2CQExPVUlTwEEu TkVUXSZfJ2T/brsonymvKr9yv9YdShAixf5TfUExRA6RIsUyoKxg94A1/sB54JBKoJCa8DMwR+CQ d/AUkTY6M3qgQX5NC9g8F3axPP3/oE5wafWP4SCsoGNCcKQA0nDs8Af0gYzi56BOREVYLd5MP+88 gVglPP1BTsCX8P/pgPoTNK/j4iAvIT86r+b6rx+vSa8hzUIxduogZYwQbChJCIaL4G8joOCQcBvt 4I7AOeqA6iJDTVPZPxA3LpvgVuAoUbGO4O416oAlMH7RdOsA7ALw4f5vR8XhuUb765ElMdCBDND/ TgDxAN6isTDuDNzg3U/eXv/foOAP4R/iL9cm6SDicfRj//EBYiGsoPMQbTDrw5cw8XF97BE/8LDn sApQrSCeMCD+Iz8Q8TADIQ0A9+H0galg/w9wDLLqIUfFYgL+BOoglDC/6LLxAu1z90D6UeegJ6iA /wh3uKAEMFFgYfMCUKkg/vB/ZfB+0Zcw/qBHxfex/eEg3iIJ4JTgrZDtcyLxMDER/+ji/jEsIGGR ZuMy4fEChzD/8cIsAPbQZ1ZLAEenmuBsUf3ekCNbAeegZOR9EJ0QfULfZuJbsFs28MJLAHVf82Fj //5SBXHn4VtjR8Vk1ZWiZcGfqbDpkjnQmvBl8mdvDLK/BXEIAJ4wYCQC5FuwYgRR9+fQfVEFcWtN 4UfFZ3TsEf1bsGn0kOogPmHwwq1Ac7N/dnEK7TGkMjtHxTN2koB16YaAYS6GAHTe5yM2/qEbJAlH xn0V4H/wAAADABAQAQAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwoDu1LgPDvgFAAAgwoDu1LgPDvgEL AACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCF AAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA RgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+A CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA AAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAA AB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTog AAAAAAMADTT9NwAA/fY= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:36:11 -0700 From: "Halter, Meg" Subject: Re: Chemical symbols HI Richard -- You can do this using equation editor in MS Word. Unfortunately, it isn't part of the standard install in word. If you do have it installed, put your cursor where you want to place the symbols, go to Insert > Object and in the "Create new" tab, select "Microsoft Equation 3.0". It'll fire up a little equation box to type in and a special tool bar. The equation editor is a slighly reduced version of MathType and is very easy to use. If you don't have it installed, you can do so easily through Add/Remove Programs. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly where equation editor was in the nested list of components. Hope this helps. -- Meg > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Owens [SMTP:owens@THECAFE.CO.UK] > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 12:07 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Chemical symbols > > Dear All > > I would appreciate help with a small problem. In the index I am working > on > at the moment, the author uses a number of simple chemical symbols, like > for Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen Isotopes. Science is not my subject and I > just can't work out how to get my computer to cope with these symbols, ie > to put the appropriate number either above or below the letters. I use > Word 97. > > Would it be acceptable to highlight these symbols on the hard copy and > leave it for the publisher to do?? > > Many thanks > > Richard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:41:43 -0400 From: clmonroe Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" Folks, A good book to read about marketing services is "Selling the Invisible: A Field Guide to Modern Marketing" by Harry Beckwith. This is a great read, full of practical and inspiring advice. Beckwith advises "If you need a name for your service, start with your own." I think this is especially true for freelancers. Anything you can do to get your name remembered is good! Only bad thing about the book-- no index! Cindy Monroe Monroe Knowledge Services (!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael K. Smith To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:30 AM Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" > I use the "bookman" logo (a little guy in a cap with a feather, carrying a > huge stack of large books) that appears on my web site -- and also on my > business card, my brochure, and my invoices. I have a strong dislike of > "cutesy" in any form (yellow 'smile' buttons make me grit my teeth), but the > logo I use is mid-19th century (and I'm sort of an antiquarian), therefore > in the public domain, and it's applicable to anything having to do with > books -- and I do copyediting, some freelance writing and documentation > work, and even occasional book-hunting and book-selling. I didn't use a > pictorial logo at all for many years, until I just happened to come across > this one in a collection of clip art. > > By the same token, I chose to go with just a plain business name rather than > something inventive... or maybe I just couldn't think of a good one! > > Mike > > Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services > mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 > http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with > an excellent vocabulary. > > |I agree w/ all that Sonsie had to say on this matter. However, sometimes a > |"cutesy logo" isn't so bad. > | > |I know, for example, that Maria Coughlin uses a little cat logo. |When I > saw > |the logo recently (at the Mass Society of Indexers conference) on the cover > |of some folders, it didn't even have her name there, but I knew immediately > |who they came from. :-) And Maria is certainly *not* suffering for work. > | > |I use a broccoli logo with little feet. I was originally hesitant about > |this, but many fellow indexers here on Index-L urged me on. I find that > |publishers say, 'yes we received your info, I remember the little broccoli > |spear!' > | > |Well, I'm being picky here, but I just think that using a logo that really > |sticks in the minds of individuals to whom we market can really go a long > |way. > | > |-Kevin Broccoli > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:23:31 +0100 From: Krys Bottrill Subject: Re: Chemical symbols Hello Richard, I need to type chemical formulae quite often and use the superscript and subscript facility for this purpose. You can get at it through the "format font" command, but I have inserted two buttons for superscript and subscript on my formatting toolbar - right click on the toolbar, select "customise" from the menu, select "format" from the commands, and then find the command you need from the list and drag the button onto the toolbar. krys (who is biting her nails, waiting for the results of the SI Unit A test) Krys Bottrill, BSc PhD MIInfSc Head of Information Services, FRAME 96-98 N Sherwood St, Nottingham, NG1 4EE, UK tel: 0115 9584740; fax: 0115 9503570; http://www.frame-uk.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:52:00 -0500 From: Jean Thompson Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Debra and others who are encountering problems with names may want to consult my KeyWords articles about problems with all kinds of names and using the Library of Congress Name Authority File to see how librarians have solved these problems in library catalogs. The first article appeared in the March/April 1998 issue (personal names) and the second in the July/August 1998 issue (corporate names, i.e. names of groups of all kinds). (Incidentally, there is also a Subject Authority File for the subject headings LC uses, in another part of the database and the LC web site also refers to them as the thesauri of names and subjects.) At the ASI conference in Indianapolis I conducted a workshop where we looked at examples of the records contained in this database and the meanings of some of the codes that are helpful to know. Whenever I've tried to explain this technical subject to people who don't have a cataloging librarian background I get concerned about whether it's possible to do so. However, the 13 attendees of the workshop seemed to get a lot out of it and I made two "house calls" to indexers attending the conference who had manuscripts they were working on who wanted to see if I could help. If I hear from attendees that they have found the information understandable and useful I would be willing to present the workshop for local chapters. Please contact me if you'd like further information, are unable to get hold of the articles, or you have specific questions you'd like to ask me. Just bear in mind that I have computer access only at work (M-F, 9-5) and I receive the list in digest form the day after the messages are posted. Oh, I almost forgot to mention the URL for LC's databases: Http://lcweb.loc.gov/catalog/ Then use the Word Search and the Advanced Search within it. Hope this helps! Jean Thompson Coordinator of Technical Services and Cataloging Librarian St. Lawrence University Owen D. Young Library Canton, NY 13617 (315) 229-5834 (315) 229-5729 (fax) jtho@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu P.O. Box 107 Canton, NY 13617-0107 (315) 386-1815 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:06:03 -0400 From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" At 08:30 AM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >the logo I use is mid-19th century (and I'm sort of an antiquarian), I went sort of the same route. I wanted somthing that illustrated indexing as a blend of traditional skills and modern technology. I found a piece of clipart with a medieval scribe at a desk in a library. I had a graphic artist remove the desk and substitute a PC. (Sorry I can't point you to a picture.) Dick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:44:47 +0000 From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Dear Graf, I have to say that, regarding names, I do look up first names (as per your Einstein example). If I'm unable to find the first name or if there is confusion between names (i.e. multiple "Smiths" or "Jones") then I'll make a list for the editor and flag the issues for him or her. Using company names as in the text is one thing, but names listed in the index should be complete and I do consider that to be my job. Best, Sylvia Coates Debra Graf wrote: > Well there's a point from Keith! I thought it was my job as an indexer to > seek out the full name of the company, just as I would seek out a person's > full name. An example would be "Einstein" (who is listed in this book). He > is listed as just "Einstein", but I have listed him in the index as > "Einstein, Albert." > > What do others think? > > And, thanks, Karen for the "Hoovers" suggestion, and Cindy for the Corporate > Information site. Very helpful. > > Thanks, > > Debbie Graf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:51:59 +0000 From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Arabic names With all due respect, what is typical use within one country might not be proper usage in another. My experience with scholarly presses in the U.S. is that Brian Peck is correct and that the name would be indexed under J (i.e. al-Jamel, Muhammad Hamid). Another example of why it's important to consider your audience and the context in which the index will be used. Ling is no doubt citing correct usage within Moslem countries while Brian is correct about how this name would be indexed in the U.S. for a scholarly text. Best, Sylvia Coates (whose maiden name is alphabetized under H in her father's native country but under D in the U.S.) Ling Heang wrote: > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > >1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- > >2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) > > I was brought up in an Islamic country and (1) & (2) would not be the = > way it's being indexed.=20 > > 'Muhammad Hamid' is the first name and 'al-Jamal' is the name of = > Muhammad Hamid's father. I hope it makes sense as muslims don't have = > surnames.=20 > > Thus, muslim name should be indexed as it appeared - 'Muhammad Hamid = > al-Jamal'. (not sure what the editor will comment about that) However, = > to conform to the "English" indexing style, (2) is more appropriate. > > Ling Heang > > Email: HEANGSL@bigfoot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby [SMTP:dwindex@LOUISA.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 6:39 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Arabic names > > Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways = > to > alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . > > 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- > 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) > > Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting = > and > for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been > sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses > method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as = > Jamal > in the text. Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know > which way, if any, is au courant. > > Paula Durbin-Westby > dwindex@louisa.net > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720 > Content-Type: application/ms-tnef > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 > > eJ8+IicOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy > b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA9AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL > AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAWgAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAEluZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNj > dXNzaW9uIEdyb3VwAFNNVFAASU5ERVgtTEBCSU5HVk1CLkNDLkJJTkdIQU1UT04uRURVAAAAHgAC > MAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACIAAABJTkRFWC1MQEJJTkdWTUIuQ0MuQklOR0hBTVRP > Ti5FRFUAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAdAAAAJ0luZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNjdXNzaW9u > IEdyb3VwJwAAAAACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOklOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5DQy5CSU5HSEFNVE9O > LkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAGwAAAEluZGV4ZXIncyBEaXNjdXNzaW9uIEdy > b3VwAAACAfdfAQAAAFoAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABJbmRleGVyJ3MgRGlzY3Vz > c2lvbiBHcm91cABTTVRQAElOREVYLUxAQklOR1ZNQi5DQy5CSU5HSEFNVE9OLkVEVQAAAAMA/V8B > AAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACQWgBBIABABEAAABSRTogQXJhYmljIG5hbWVzAGcF > AQWAAwAOAAAAzwcGAB4AFgAeABgAAwBJAQEggAMADgAAAM8HBgAeABYAEAAsAAMATwEBCYABACEA > AAA5MjQ2NTUxRjM5MkZEMzExQTI2RjQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADEBgEDkAYArA0AACEAAAALAAIAAQAA > AAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYEB0FwXDvgEeAHAA > AQAAABEAAABSRTogQXJhYmljIG5hbWVzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+wwUXUh9VRpMvORHTom9E > RVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAATAAAAaGVhbmdAaWluZXQubmV0LmF1 > AAADAAYQR+evYgMABxBVBAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAMUpBTUFMLE1VSEFNTUFESEFNSURBTC0yQUwt > SkFNQUwsTVVIQU1NQURIQU1JRChBTFBIQUJFVElaRURPTkopSVdBU0JST1VHSFRVUElOQU5JU0xB > TUlDQ09VTlRSWUFORCgxKQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAJYKAACSCgAAMBcAAExaRnXzWj1MAwAKAHJjcGcx > MjVyMgxgYzEDMAEHC2BukQ4QMDMzDxZmZQ+STwH3AqQDYwIAY2gKwHOEZXQC0XBycTIAAJIqCqFu > bxJQIDAB0IUB0DYPoDA1MDQUIfMB0BQQNH0HbQKDAFAD1PsR/xMLYhPhFFATshj0FNCvBxMCgAKR > COY7CW8wGt/6ZQ4wNRwKHSEc3x3pG/T/HhIcfyBPIA0fjx2/HA8QYPwyOCXaJvEmrye5G/Qn4r8m > TyofKd0pXyePK1Q5DlAfLqQwASgjMAACgnN0eepsB5BoCeB0AAATUAPwUGRjdGwKsVwyWGGYZGp1 > MXAFEGdoBUI7FjIMAWMJwDJgAzBzbnxleBcwB7AFsADAAnNzsQBQc2IyFFAxYGET8PRcawngcAuQ > Mj8yowhg6zKQC4BlMaB2OWABQDObvwwwNGQoADdABKALgGcn8ek05mJhFxBkAiA1oDVG5zHQM5A7 > kSAxMTMOUDaf/zevOL8AUTn8AKA0bjx/PYb/MSQPwD6PP59Arw5QOe9DD9tEHz2zMwKCExBjNmBL > oZMzkD2wdGk5kCBEARCoYXVsBUBQCsBhCcDgYXBoIEYCITYkJUDoZmktD5A4AUA5MFAz60cPMqNi > CyByCVBSUhag2VJSdzQlQRcAcAHQTXJ/M79Kn0umT9BOkAUQAjAtQ08wA2E6IFRvV7BTKHViagWQ > dFewRGHodGU6NiQ2T/9RD1If/1MvVDkxwD2jDiFLoTq2DlCbVW9WflI5gRcBIEg9kfsEkDYkN1lv > Wn9bj1ydOQ8vXb8PkGlwCNBiCrB0OP9J+g9URhBfv2DGagBh0AtQvHkvT0BcsAsRYkVzNiT/KABj > P2RPZV9cr1RPa19sb+9tdVfSV3RYqTlvvzM/AzAdabM5c590r3qgRG9j/nUHgAIwBdBPAEzWcqRN > tWMMYAlQY2Yye6hNUUjseXAEkGdxaz4UFjFu4P4zRnFncIGCeC95P3rPSz35gSAgTAQAT3RfkUZQ > DiCfgg+DH4QvhT9fkCBCBHD+eVfANXEaAxMQZ3AxcAGRzzGgAACM4ozUZW0LUVjAo4fAWUA3NDMv > 8TQoAH+M4gCQjkGNZWezb0Bnwm7nFsBrQGezamNvMWfCAhD6bAkAd5HlMXAKwAGQVsD7ksUKsGMK > YJDEC4ABAAIwzwHhZ7NYwDWAXCcToJXh3DApAoKQ1H0gYmIBleHrPgECAGIHMHNLoYFXbwNvkcCM > 5QzBbwIgloKGgW46YQeAIJexjOKOoTM1RDQxDiA2MjOMiG//YfE1ARcgjTic5ps/nJsFoP51lQFv > QDZgGhCIQoegh+D7cVEBgG5YMABgCfBNoH0A/wIBNeBeUp6AooExgIBgDlDydgiQd2uUwWtAo/IE > 8P8HQBBhAUAOAHEiPYKlVQIQHm8FQhchEvKOJiBDOtRcXFcAb07hbU8wAxCbB5CoAE0N4ANgc28B > gFwgTwEgDeCegFyptkXrAMADEC5LcHSXwBcQh+DbNSFncngBQKJRbjHQGvB3q1RONJlQIBLzAIAF > kGz+dkGhRtAOcDXgreKTMq5y/5TEAcGt4RbgD3AAAEbQDND5AZAgLoyErfYOUK6STnD/iDCvD7Af > sS8PwEbQBYGyz9uz37TvbGtARtBsso+3T324VSmxXCVAti+7D7hEYvwgKAKRvC+uI1lQud++n/+/ > r8C/rlBjEMICrt/Db8R//7FcKADCD8ePyJ/Jr65QeAD/xo/MH80vzjQK+QMwh5+Ir/uJvQKiIAqF > 0vyBH9Pf1O8l1f4+ApAxLgyCIEqrmtAHQCwF0HUW4G0AwG9twZrQNREHQC3XNtyiMu/c9N6x3V/e > YygHQE8QAaBpFyBpegmAIAIg3UApP9c/05/ab9t/1sEKhUkgH22QBCBxIAhg5gJ1cCAz4+EDkUlz > C2DecGMgHaBzcowQAHDhgTEpIKomzaAy6oB3CGBsNSDnE1AFQJcwIHQx0OfBjBDzTcAAEHF1ppAT > gOfxjpBrPdGUwngJgC7XJgqGbP/slN3M7HbosAQg69Ju0BcA/wVAmsPqIu7m4BbwTprDqXBv71/s > lk5A69Fy7eDnsGj2b4Bg7EEgAMBGoAQgFxB3rgHeoAQgbeWwZ3Ci8CDfS3HsdgVAFuBN8XMIcJrC > 8nPt7lRo5bDgkPhE8ZT/McDrE+uh7XX4AvchTwCAYP8KwOJRrDJLQE8g7t/eSPLr/e3gKOti+eHr > 8RbgBUDxAv8JgE3ABbEWcJJw6ZHeAH1C35mwZ0HrwViw6oBI5DBh4v/gkJzQ6ZGRIDXRBWLxAm9A > tmQJQOyURQ9wjOFoJeB/BrftZD3CMXPgkOrC8NFtfwMg8dH+EBGgF3CYAFjALv/uDN7n1vKGcD3R > YlEPcO4M/6qzV7AV8qQA6zAQwOswPbD9GpB5EvIPIaRA8XHW42JAAFlQRVJMSU5LB/dBquCc0DpI > RUFOUEdTTECX8Gemci7/A6EMNRey/sCZoA7DOpGkQAI5eqAA0MnqefkAus4RjIIAqgCgS6kLAgAV > 4AMV4QrgFO02FeFtAGEAAGkAbAB0AG8AADoASABFAEEAAE4ARwBTAEwAiEAAYhfBZwBmGCHjGDAY > EC4AYxghF5AV4P+MgA6S6zBycE5xT6B+En8G/xHfA7Aa9NcXC23jU6uy0PIf5C/lPxvBNPITVGJr > bXJrkyMgX32AquBYoWH0fS0ksk9JoaRA8xB9cPP3gIcwZ2Uks+Lf2ENjDP9vICBvcL9xz2c/aE9p > X2pvf9aVIsVXc90DTqBOYLigQ83t4ET58BRhLVf3gNHwAYwQW1NNVFA6ZAMo8O2CQExPVUlTwEEu > TkVUXSZfJ2T/brsonymvKr9yv9YdShAixf5TfUExRA6RIsUyoKxg94A1/sB54JBKoJCa8DMwR+CQ > d/AUkTY6M3qgQX5NC9g8F3axPP3/oE5wafWP4SCsoGNCcKQA0nDs8Af0gYzi56BOREVYLd5MP+88 > gVglPP1BTsCX8P/pgPoTNK/j4iAvIT86r+b6rx+vSa8hzUIxduogZYwQbChJCIaL4G8joOCQcBvt > 4I7AOeqA6iJDTVPZPxA3LpvgVuAoUbGO4O416oAlMH7RdOsA7ALw4f5vR8XhuUb765ElMdCBDND/ > TgDxAN6isTDuDNzg3U/eXv/foOAP4R/iL9cm6SDicfRj//EBYiGsoPMQbTDrw5cw8XF97BE/8LDn > sApQrSCeMCD+Iz8Q8TADIQ0A9+H0galg/w9wDLLqIUfFYgL+BOoglDC/6LLxAu1z90D6UeegJ6iA > /wh3uKAEMFFgYfMCUKkg/vB/ZfB+0Zcw/qBHxfex/eEg3iIJ4JTgrZDtcyLxMDER/+ji/jEsIGGR > ZuMy4fEChzD/8cIsAPbQZ1ZLAEenmuBsUf3ekCNbAeegZOR9EJ0QfULfZuJbsFs28MJLAHVf82Fj > //5SBXHn4VtjR8Vk1ZWiZcGfqbDpkjnQmvBl8mdvDLK/BXEIAJ4wYCQC5FuwYgRR9+fQfVEFcWtN > 4UfFZ3TsEf1bsGn0kOogPmHwwq1Ac7N/dnEK7TGkMjtHxTN2koB16YaAYS6GAHTe5yM2/qEbJAlH > xn0V4H/wAAADABAQAQAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCAEP////9AAAcwoDu1LgPDvgFAAAgwoDu1LgPDvgEL > AACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCF > AAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAA > RgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+A > CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA > AAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA > AAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAA > AB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTog > AAAAAAMADTT9NwAA/fY= > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:55:22 +0000 From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Dear Debra not Dear Graf Dear Debra (not Dear Graf), I'm sorry about my former salutation! That was typing too quickly and not paying attention. I'm sorry if that appeared to be rude, it was a big boo boo! Best, Sylvia Coates Sylvia Coates wrote: > Dear Graf, > > I have to say that, regarding names, I do look up first names (as per your > Einstein example). If I'm unable to find the first name or if there is confusion > between names (i.e. multiple "Smiths" or "Jones") then I'll make a list for the > editor and flag the issues for him or her. > > Using company names as in the text is one thing, but names listed in the index > should be complete and I do consider that to be my job. > > Best, > Sylvia Coates > > Debra Graf wrote: > > > Well there's a point from Keith! I thought it was my job as an indexer to > > seek out the full name of the company, just as I would seek out a person's > > full name. An example would be "Einstein" (who is listed in this book). He > > is listed as just "Einstein", but I have listed him in the index as > > "Einstein, Albert." > > > > What do others think? > > > > And, thanks, Karen for the "Hoovers" suggestion, and Cindy for the Corporate > > Information site. Very helpful. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Debbie Graf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:14:38 -0800 From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: Re: Web Indexing PDF Documents Karen: Why don't you just create an index as a pdf file using Acrobat, and link all of the entries to the individual pdf pgs? -Broccoli -----Original Message----- From: Karen Powers Sent: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:45:35 -0500 To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Web Indexing PDF Documents Hi! I need to know what tool to use to create a Web index to go over about 30 PDF documents. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks! Karen _______________________________________________________ Get Visto! Groups, event calendars, email, and more... Check it out @ http://www.visto.com/info ------------------------------ End of INDEX-L Digest - 29 Jun 1999 to 30 Jun 1999 ************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:55:44 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Tombs Subject: Re: scheduling projects >Christy wrote: > >>Does anybody have any advice or experiences to share on scheduling >freelance projects? That is, how do you make sure you have enough >projects to keep busy (and financially sound) without running into >overlaps and conflicts? My brother is a freelance writer, and his advice to me when I took up freelancing was short and to the point: Bite off more than you can chew, and then chew like mad! Michael Tombs Michael.Tombs@tesco.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:45:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Aganita Varkentine (S&T Onsite)" Subject: More info for independent contractors IRS Publication 15-A: Employer's Supplemental Tax Guide IRS Form SS-8: Determination of Employee Work Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/plain/forms_pubs/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:58:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" Subject: Re: More info for independent contractors I'll bet that's an IRS publication every Microsoft employee knows by heart. -----Original Message----- From: Aganita Varkentine (S&T Onsite) [mailto:a-agavar@MICROSOFT.COM] Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 12:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: More info for independent contractors IRS Publication 15-A: Employer's Supplemental Tax Guide IRS Form SS-8: Determination of Employee Work Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/plain/forms_pubs/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:14:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: scheduling projects In a message dated 7/2/99 8:50:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dwindex@LOUISA.NET writes: << Does anybody have any advice or experiences to share on scheduling freelance projects? >> Since we are in watercooler mode.. I have a related question. My two daughters "couldn't" find work this summer. Both type and are college level students. Okay.. it seems they both feel that their mother should be able to find them paying projects related to her (my) indexing business. If I could find an effective way to plow through more work as a team and thus justify paying them something, I'd be happy to do it. I definately don't want to take a pay cut just to give them spending money in exchange for busy work even if it is deductable. So, after all that, what types of indexing chores have any of you been able to delegate. If I could figure out a system to mark text faster than I can type my own entries That would be okay too. Any ideas? Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:26:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: delegating Sharon, You could delegate typing tasks, like indexing personal names (assuming they are straightforward) and proper nouns. Also, you could delegate housekeeping tasks like counting pages when they arrive, writing letters, spell-checking indexes, and so forth. When I have hired temp workers, these are the kinds of tasks I routinely separate out. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:31:39 -0700 Reply-To: nisc@webaccess.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Luana Heikes Organization: NISC Colorado Subject: Any database indexers or abstracters out there? July 2, 1999 Hi, I wrote a message earlier in the week trying to find out pay rates for database indexers and/or abstracters. I've enjoyed reading all the mail I've received via the listserv, but still haven't found any database indexers (except Shelley Greenhouse, who wrote me a very welcome, thorough account of her work). I gather that most of you are book indexers -- an area I want to learn more about. Do any of you work for a database or know someone who does? Please, please let me hear from you if you do. Thanks so much. Luana Heikes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:53:03 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Independent contractor status CW: I am just establishing my new business as IndexEmpire. Have all of you registered your business names officially, and is it necessary? A friend said he was unable to get his bank to print checks in his business name if he could not show a business license. Does it vary by state? Jean Middleton IndexEmpire Riverside, CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:22:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: scheduling projects Interesting discussions. Re scheduling itself: I continue to find scheduling the most challenging aspect of running my indexing business. I want a good income, so I tend to schedule tight rather than not. Nonetheless, an excellent quality product is my highest priority. It is a constant challenge to keep the two balanced. The problem arises not in how many jobs to take on, but in what happens when a project is delayed and the due date slides. That happens more and more lately, and it makes hash of a well-organized workload very quickly! It is the most stressful part of my work. Re delegating tasks: Outside of what Barbara outlined, there is not much that can be delegated. IF you normally mark proof, you might be able to train somebody to do data entry from your marked pages. It's not easy, though. You have to do a lot of quality checks to be certain your markings aren't misunderstood, or that entries are not omitted. And that's a big "if" -- it depends on whether or not this is possible with your kids. On paper, it would seem that an indexer's productivity can be increased by hiring and delegating. In reality, I have found it to be hardly worth it most of the time. I am sure others will have other opinions. Work methods are a highly individual and individualized thing. This is how it is for me. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:34:56 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: urgent--alphabetizing beta Hi collective wisdom! I'm a little outside my comfort zone here, indexing an elementary science textbook. What is the standard for alphabetizing an entry beginning with a beta character? (B-cells). Should it be alphabetized as if it were a b, a beta, or at the beginning of the alphabet (or some other place I'm not thinking of)? I'm mailing the index Monday. Thanks all! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:17:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta On 7/2/1999 1:34 PM Do Mi Stauber wrote (in part): >I'm a little outside my comfort zone here, indexing an elementary science >textbook. What is the standard for alphabetizing an entry beginning with a >beta character? (B-cells). Should it be alphabetized as if it were a b, a >beta, or at the beginning of the alphabet (or some other place I'm not >thinking of)? I'm mailing the index Monday. Thanks all! Generally, it should be excluded from alphabetization. For instance, B-endorphin appears in the E group. However, looking at a text I did with beta cells, it was always spelled out in the text and in the index. The same is true of Stedman's Medical Dictionary. If I were making the decision without having time to consult with the editor I would enter the beta letter followed by (and alphabetized as) the words "beta cells." Good luck! Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:02:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta In the CINDEX manual (p 138-139) I find the following: "If you are working on a scientific index, you might make entries such as: o-Aminobenzoic acid p-Aminobenzoic acid Such entries should normally be alphabetized under "Aminobenzoic acid" rather than their initial letters." If I were to assume that the CINDEX manual carries the weight of authority (and I often do!), I'd sort "B-cells" under C for cells. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:35:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta Hi Do Mi, Are you talking about B cells as in immunology. In that case the B cell stands for "bone marrow-derived" lymphocytes versus T cell (thymus-derived lymphocytes) and, is listed without the hypen and, at least in Mosby's, between BBB (blood-brain-barrier) and BCG (bacille Calmette-Guerin). Diane DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi collective wisdom! > > I'm a little outside my comfort zone here, indexing an elementary science > textbook. What is the standard for alphabetizing an entry beginning with a > beta character? (B-cells). Should it be alphabetized as if it were a b, a > beta, or at the beginning of the alphabet (or some other place I'm not > thinking of)? I'm mailing the index Monday. Thanks all! > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:44:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta In-Reply-To: <199907021922.PAA28412@carriage.chesco.com> At 02:17 PM 7/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >On 7/2/1999 1:34 PM Do Mi Stauber wrote (in part): > >>I'm a little outside my comfort zone here, indexing an elementary science >>textbook. What is the standard for alphabetizing an entry beginning with a >>beta character? (B-cells). Should it be alphabetized as if it were a b, a >>beta, or at the beginning of the alphabet (or some other place I'm not >>thinking of)? I'm mailing the index Monday. Thanks all! > >Generally, it should be excluded from alphabetization. For instance, >B-endorphin appears in the E group. However, looking at a text I did >with beta cells, it was always spelled out in the text and in the index. >The same is true of Stedman's Medical Dictionary. In this particular case I think the more critical question is where will elementary students look for the term. My experience (as a parent) is that they are likely to use the index as a last resort so the term better be in the first place they check. Unless you have a significant number of non-alphabetic characters for a section before "A", I'd be inclined to place it in the "B" section with as many double-posts as are practical (for example: beginning of the Bs if it is "b cells" and "beta...". Depending on the variety of cells discussed maybe a grouping under "cells" would be useful. Nancy Guenther ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:56:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Hernandez Subject: Re: Registering business name On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:53:03 -0700 Jean Middleton writes: > >CW: > >I am just establishing my new business as IndexEmpire. Have all of you >registered your business names officially, and is it necessary? A >friend >said he was unable to get his bank to print checks in his business >name >if he could not show a business license. Does it vary by state? > It does vary by state, even by counties and cities. You can check with your chamber of commerce. I'm required to have a business license, but I don't have to "register" my business name anywhere. My business bank account has a "DBA BookEnd Indexing" under my name (however, I got my checks printed by mail order, and left the "DBA" part out - I've never been told that's a problem). And since I'm not required to charge sales tax, my SSN is my business tax ID number. Registering your business name can be done on a national level - it requires some research to make sure the name is unique or unlikely to be confused with a similarly named business (whether it is an indexing business or not). This process usually requires a lawyer and some money. I like my business name, and it's on my card and letterhead. But, in the time I've been in business, no one has ever called asking for "BookEnd Indexing" - they ask for Susan Hernandez! And that really works out O.K. since it means they don't confuse me with similarly named indexing businesses (and there are a few out there). - Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com (316) 789-0576 (Kansas) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:37:25 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 29 Jun 1999 to 30 Jun 1999 In-Reply-To: Curious - I have received the day's digest without asking for it. Is everyone receiving it now? Can I turn it off? I can find how to turn it on but not off. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:13:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Independent contractor status On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:53:03 -0700 Jean Middleton writes: > > CW: > > I am just establishing my new business as IndexEmpire. Have all of you > registered your business names officially, and is it necessary? A friend > said he was unable to get his bank to print checks in his business name > if he could not show a business license. Does it vary by state? Yes this does vary from state to state, city to city. Here in the City of New York., you just go to the County Clerk's office and get the form for "DBA" (doing business as). It's not the same thing as incorporating, it's just registering your business name. As long as there is nobody else using the same name (I am not sure if that would be in the county or the state), the DBA will be approved. I haven't found it necessary to do this, but I don't use a separate checking account for my work. Why don't you just ask other freelancers in your area what their experiences have been? | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:55:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Independent contractor status On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:45:21 -0400 Keith McQuay writes: > > Have any of you ever been challenged on your freelance status? Or know if a > case even? > > Keith McQuay I've been freelancing since 1971 and I've had more than my share of problems with the IRS, but this has not been one of them. Even when I was one of the heads of the Editorial Freelancers Association, I did not hear of any cases. However, once we had someone from the IRS speaking at an EFA meeting. In response to a question about the home-office deduction, he said that each IRS office has its own "local interpretations" of the code. For example, someone in New York may not have a problem deducting part of a small studio apartment or part of an undivided huge loft as a home office, while another freelancer in Utah may have to dedicate an entire room to their office. I can imagine some offices giving freelancers a hard time. Also keep in mind that some giant publishers have been known to fire hundreds of editorial workers and then "rehire" them immediately as independent contractors, put them back in their old cubicles, doing the same work, for the same supervisors, in the same hours. The IRS was on to this. The biggest offender was the old Macmillan, now bankrupt. I know this for a fact. I worked for Macmillan in-house between 1969 and 1971. They did this many times, especially in 1974, to reduce the size of a potential bargaining unit during a unionization campaign. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:57:21 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Spencer Subject: Re: Independent contractor status In a message dated 07/02/99 05:24:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, elinzer@JUNO.COM writes: << Also keep in mind that some giant publishers have been known to fire hundreds of editorial workers and then "rehire" them immediately as independent contractors, put them back in their old cubicles, doing the same work, for the same supervisors, in the same hours. The IRS was on to this. >> Not just publishing companies. This is happening all over which is why it's got the IRS all over the situation. Federal agencies especially watch for this among their subcontractors--such as Lockheed Martin. After I was put into I.C. status, I was nearly banned from appearing in the office, lest someone misconstrue my being there--even to drop off deliverables! And heaven help me if I had a closed door 10-second meeting with my former boss!! This firing then rehiring as I.C. is a common practice in many companies. It's a way to downsize to the benefit of the company. In the notice that started this thread, I think it was indexers at the university presses that were being scrutinized. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) It WOULD raise a red flag with the IRS, that very little of this work is being done in-house. I had to help with the subcontracts for our department, and one of the questions we had to justify (and couldn't always!) was WHY we should subcontract a particular job out instead retraining an existing employee who might otherwise lose their job. In my never-so-humble opinion (!), the vast majority of freelance indexers probably don't need to worry about I.C. status, whether they have one customer or a thousand. Only if they have formerly been employed as indexers for a company might they be a little concerned that everything is on the 'up-and up.' Especially if they only have one customer, who was their former employer! It might be OK, but it might be looked at very closely. As far as the IRS home deduction, I'm glad I have a dedicated office so that never needs to be questioned! :-) All the best to all of you, Dawn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:50:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta In a message dated 99-07-02 14:35:51 EDT, you write: << alphabetizing an entry beginning with a beta character? (B-cells). >> Depends on whether you consider "as written" (b-cells) or "as read" (beta-cells). I believe it's the same question as how to alphabetize St.,Ste., Saint, or Sante. If your client hasn't specified which to use, your judgement just needs to be consistent with the other style decisions you've determined for your own sanity. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 18:55:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta In a message dated 99-07-02 15:35:11 EDT, you write: << If I were to assume that the CINDEX manual carries the weight of authority (and I often do!), I'd sort "B-cells" under C for cells. >> Yes, BUT remember who the readers are. What are elementary kids, not science majors, going to think? Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:12:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandy Harris Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta I'm an indexing student, but my background in Elementary Ed. and Curriculum & Instruction causes me to agree with Nancy's advice to cross-reference as much as possible. Most children are going to look under the B's; only a few will think to look under "cells." Sandy H. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:53:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta Do Mi, You have already gotten some helpful responses. Let me add that in my medical experience "beta cells" are written out in that form, and if that is the standard of the book, I would put the term sorted as "beta" under the B's. As others have pointed out, in *chemical* names the precursor may or may not be a Greek letter, as in o- (ortho) or p- (para), vs. " gamma", for example. In chemical names the Greek letters are not written out, and any "prefix letter" is ignored in sorting. And, of course, there can be some overlap between medical and chemical names in a given text - so, the usual ambiguous answer. ;-) Hopefully the text will make clear to you which you are dealing with here. For elementary students I would go with double posting under "beta" (written out) and under "cell" as someone has suggested. In standard useage I don't think either a medical or chemical term would be sorted separately as the Greek letter (beta), but if that is how the term is written in the book I would probably post under that too in this case. They teach stuff like this to *elementary school* students now-a-days? Or did you mean and an *elementary" text (I hope)? I hope this helps. I will be home this weekend, so "holler" if you have trouble figuring out what you are dealing with (med. vs. chem.). Ann Truesdale > > Hi collective wisdom! > > I'm a little outside my comfort zone here, indexing an elementary science > textbook. What is the standard for alphabetizing an entry beginning with a > beta character? (B-cells). Should it be alphabetized as if it were a b, a > beta, or at the beginning of the alphabet (or some other place I'm not > thinking of)? I'm mailing the index Monday. Thanks all! > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:34:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Elementary-ness (side street of alphabetizing) I'm watching the alphabetizing thread evolve and thinking 'Whoa, when did [the text in question] become a science text for elementary school students!" (and thanks to Ann Truesdale for picking this up as well). Do Mi's exact words are: "indexing an elementary science textbook" (we'll have to wait 'til Do Mi finishes editing and comes back into the realm of Index-L for the definitive answer). But I definitely feel the need to stir up the starlings. Elementary can be defined as "relating to the simplest principles of a subject" or "teaching the basic subjects of education." To me, an "elementary science text" would be a basic, entry level text with an overview of a topic, and one that could be used as a good reference book (I still use my undergrad anatomy & physiology and physics texts). In my (be it ever so humble) opinion, the index in such a book should help reinforce the science the students are learning, and should reflect the classifications and anatomical relations in the text. I think using Cells as an entry is way too broad, and it would be so hard to be comprehensive. Think of every cell in the body that you would have to list as a sub-entry, including blood cells (red, white, platelets), brain cells (neuronal, vascular, secretory, glial), bone, cartilage . . . In one of my thesauri, there are at least 150 more specific cell types listed as narrower terms. Even if you just listed the kinds that have 'cell' in their name - in my A&P book there are 54 cell types listed, and beta cells isn't one of them, even though 'beta cells' is an entry point. If beta cells (which are different than B cells, which are lymphocytes and should also be listed there) are the cells in question, the cross references might include: pancreas (exocrine) , islets of Langerhans (insulin secretion), insulin (secretion of), and diabetes, depending on the text, because that where beta cells are and what they do. An *elementary school* science textbook probably would not discuss beta cells, because that reflects a certain depth to the topic that would be beyond most fifth graders (although it's been a long time since I've been a fifth grader, and I have a while to go before anyone in this house is one again). Shelley Greenhouse database indexer (and former "elementary science" student and teacher) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:01:40 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta Thanks, everybody!! << Yes, BUT remember who the readers are. What are elementary kids, not science majors, going to think? >> Actually, by "elementary" I meant, not elementary kids, but a very beginning level college textbook. I'm going to index them as B (beta) cells, with the B being the Beta symbol. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:02:38 -0000 Reply-To: Christine Shuttleworth Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 29 Jun 1999 to 30 Jun 1999 (again) John Sampson wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: scheduling problems Always a difficult question. I try to average one index a month, but I sometimes go 3 months with no index and then, like in March and again now, I get 3 or 4 in one month. Yesterday I got a call for a rush job and didn't want to turn it down as it would be a nice amount of money, plus it's a new client. I always fear that if I turn down a new client I don't just lose that job, but a lot of potential work as well. So I took it. So now I'm working tomorrow instead of doing my yard sale and auction run, and I'll be working Monday instead of going to a cookout, and I didn't go for a walk with my neighbor this afternoon. And I turned down and extra shift at work even though I was offered a nice bonus if I would do it. And last night couldn't sleep because of worrying that I wouldn't get it all done, so I didn't get up as early this morning as I intended, which means I must work that much later tonight. But on the other hand, when I have no indexes I get to do a lot of arts and crafts stuff, and extra sleeping, and working extra shifts at work, and still have (usually) enough money to get me through. Somehow it works, whether I worry or not. I try not to worry, but I still do. But it's this very problem that has kept me from taking the risk to go freelance full time. I just can't quite bring myself to do it. Though probably if I didn't have a job, I'd take 3-4 indexes per month and make a lot more money. Anyway, good question and I'm looking forward to seeing how others deal with this. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 12:49:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandy Harris Subject: Re: Elementary-ness I had to laugh at myself when I read Shelley's post. It's interesting how our backgrounds, or just the things we've been doing recently, affect how we interpret something! I wonder just how much our natural ego-centrism affects what we choose to index and how we choose to index it? As humans, it's imposible for us to be completely objective, but I see more clearly this is something I will need to strive for as I index (or at least guard against interpreting elementary as grade school!). Maybe I'm asking for the impossible, but have any of you experienced indexers found techniques to help you try to maintain an objective viewpoint as you index? And, just how important is this issue? Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 19:33:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: potentially stupid question I am too fried to figure this out for myself. The answer is probably really obvious. I'm doing an index for a book of previously published articles from the LA Times. The authors of each article are given at the ends of each. I absolutely can't think how to index them. Just on the page at the end of the article where their name is? Author name, plus the name of the article (way too long, they were the original headlines)? Author name with full range of the article (usually 2-4 pgs)? Author name, articles by, 2,5, etc. Most authors have more than one article. Some have many, which would create long strings of locators but that might not matter in this case. Any ideas are welcome. I have to have it submitted by Tuesday morning. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:55:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Bryant Subject: Projects and time Hello all and Happy 4th of July! I have been reading the scheduling of projects posts with much interest. How many indexers combine their indexing business with other totally unrelated businesses? When I work on long writing projects that last over several days, I have to go outside and do physical labor between the writing. My garden looks great after one of these projects! Do any of you have another business on the side that combines well with indexing as far as time? (Indexing is primary source of income.) Farming? Bed and Breakfast? Giving Music Lessons? I need to find a part time source of income that I can do inbetween indexing projects that is totally different from indexing and has no deadlines. Thanks, Charlotte Charlotte Bryant/Media Specialist Anderson, SC cbryant@carol.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 22:49:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Patricia H. Gross" Subject: Re: Projects and time In-Reply-To: <199907040158.VAA23774@mx02.erols.com> >Do any of you have another business on the >side that combines well with indexing as far >as time? (Indexing is primary source of income.) >Farming? Bed and Breakfast? Giving Music >Lessons? I've combined indexing with a hand craft (though since the last months of my husband's illness, and his death in March of 98 I've not gotten all that much done in either area). The hand craft involves stringing beads to make rosaries, which I've sold to a number of retreat houses and religious goods stores. When I'm in the rhythm of getting stuff done, the combination seems ideal, because when I'm between indexes I can get ahead with the beads. And any of the hand crafts can be a soothing change from indexing. I've been lucky in that I am able to do them efficiently enough that it pays adequately (most hand crafts don't); not as well as indexing, but for hand work that I can do when talking to people, I think $10 - 12 per hour is adequate. I was also working on a Masters' degree, but that didn't combine well with indexing, because there were too many times when there were conflicting deadlines. The best combination with indexing is something that tends not to have tight deadlines, I would think. Patricia Gross ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:14:26 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: scheduling projects In-Reply-To: I have put a little section in the current AusSI Newsletter called "Indexing families" in which I note two ways I have been able to delegate work to our 8-year old. One was downloading and printing web pages that needed abstracts and metadata. The other was highlighting botanical common names and synonyms. They were listed after headings and also at pictures so some care was needed, although there was good typographical guidance. In both cases Bill saved me some time (and he gets a much lower hourly rate, although as a keen negotiator he will soon be increasing it). Most important to me, though, it is giving him a better idea of the work we do, and gradually building up a range of life skills. Also, I think it's fun. Glenda. > So, after all that, what types of > indexing chores have any of you been able to delegate. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:00:11 -0400 Reply-To: rohrbach@delanet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne L. Rohrbach" Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta (if it's 'beta') Morning! This is an area where you have to be really careful. You have to make sure WHAT the B stands for, a "B" or a "beta". As Diane said, you're probably indexing B-cells, which is a type of lymphocyte (blood cell, bone marrow derived), and important in immunology. The 'B' in this case does not stand for 'beta'. Medical Subject Headings (MeSH) says to index B-cells as "B-lymphocytes" (with the hyphen). Given that the text is intro college level, 'B-cells' would be appropriate if that how it is written in the text. Either way, it should be alphabetized under 'B'. I'd also lean toward putting in a cross-reference: Lymphocytes. see (or see also) B-cells. MeSH can be searched on the Internet at http://www.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/ Another good site for getting medical information is http://www.mwsearch.com/ If you have any other questions, post them to the list, or email me privately... I'll be happy to help you! Joanne ====== Diane Brenner wrote: Are you talking about B cells as in immunology. In that case the B cell stands for "bone marrow-derived" lymphocytes versus T cell (thymus-derived lymphocytes) and, is listed without the hypen and, at least in Mosby's, between BBB (blood-brain-barrier) and BCG (bacille Calmette-Guerin). ==== Paula wrote: o-Aminobenzoic acid p-Aminobenzoic acid Such entries should normally be alphabetized under "Aminobenzoic acid" rather than their initial letters." ==== > I'm a little outside my comfort zone here, indexing an elementary science > textbook. What is the standard for alphabetizing an entry beginning with a > beta character? (B-cells). Should it be alphabetized as if it were a b, a > beta, or at the beginning of the alphabet (or some other place I'm not > thinking of)? I'm mailing the index Monday. Thanks all! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:18:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: potentially stupid question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01BEC662.CB4A6E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd index the author's name to the first page of the article since the article is what readers are likely to be interested in rather than the writer's name per se. I gather that this is not a particularly scholarly work. If this is an author index, is there some reason (besides length) that you can't or don't want to use the article title as "subentry?" By the way, did no one ever tell you there is no such thing as a stupid question? Jeanne Moody -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Rice To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 7:36 PM Subject: potentially stupid question >I am too fried to figure this out for myself. The answer is probably really >obvious. I'm doing an index for a book of previously published articles >from the LA Times. The authors of each article are given at the ends of >each. I absolutely can't think how to index them. Just on the page at the >end of the article where their name is? Author name, plus the name of the >article (way too long, they were the original headlines)? Author name with >full range of the article (usually 2-4 pgs)? Author name, articles by, 2,5, >etc. Most authors have more than one article. Some have many, which would >create long strings of locators but that might not matter in this case. > >Any ideas are welcome. I have to have it submitted by Tuesday morning. > >Rae > > Rachel Rice > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > Indexing, editing, proofreading > http://homepages.together.net/~racric > racric ICQ 31476947 > ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01BEC662.CB4A6E60 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990705T011843Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_009E_01BEC662.CB4A6E60-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:22:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: scheduling problems This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BEC663.5FFE0EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do other indexers deal with scheduling problems? Some of us just slowly go nuts but somehow, by the grace of God, manage to recuperate before reaching the doorstep of Brattleboro Retreat. Jeanne Moody ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BEC663.5FFE0EE0 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Jeanne C. Moody.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Moody;Jeanne;C. FN:Jeanne C. Moody ORG:Beaver Wood Associates TEL;WORK;VOICE:603-835-7900 TEL;WORK;FAX:603-835-6279 ADR;WORK:;;P.O. Box 290;Alstead Center;NH;03602 LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:P.O. Box 290=0D=0AAlstead Center, NH 03602 EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:jcmoody@top.monad.net REV:19990705T012252Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01BEC663.5FFE0EE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:12:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: time and part-time income sources In a message dated 99-07-03 21:58:52 EDT, you write: << I need to find a part time source of income that I can do inbetween indexing projects that is totally different from indexing and has no deadlines. >> Once upon a time, when I was working full-time on medical research projects funded by governement and other grants, I had a part-time job that I loved. I needed the feeling that I could support myself if next year's grant dried up. Next to the Research spot in the help-wanted ads was Real Estate.. so I got a real estate license. First, I was a sales person and for the last 4 years of that stretch I was a broker. For eight years I sold property part-time. Its got things that an indexer could love. You need to be computer literate. You need to be organized and keep really good records and files. You can sit in an office for hours and even index while waiting for the phone to ring. I wrote a newsletter that other agents paid me to use. Oh, and I ran an internet chat group for agents (on AOL) for three years. In those days you got free AOL for doing that. Its got things that indexers can recognize. You are self-employed. You get paid only when a project is finished. You can take time off when you need it. Your clients show up at the oddest times. Its got things an indexer misses. You get to meet and talk with people. You get to drive around. You get to look into peoples houses. You schedule the time you spend on the projects. Things that might be a problem, You've got to be able to sell yourself. But we get parctice as indexers, don't we? On the plus side, the sales techniques you learn can be used back in indexing. As I remember the situation, the only things that you need to be present for at specific times were office meetings, closings and appraisals AND other than the office meetings, you could pay another agent to take over for you at closings and appraisals. Everything else could be moved around. Also, some agents who work day jobs partner with other part-time sales people so they split the work and the profit. Just a thought for those who want to get out some but on a limited basis. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:55:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Projects and time > > Do any of you have another business on the > side that combines well with indexing as far > as time? (Indexing is primary source of income.) > Farming? Bed and Breakfast? Giving Music > Lessons? > I guess I could say farming, but not crop or livestock farming - too many crises, obligations and time crunches there - we have a tree farm which lets you schedule work with a lot of flexibility. I also have a large vegetable garden which I consider as a contribution toward the family budget. Although I haven't started yet, beyond a collection of furniture in bad shape, I hope to repair/refinish/restore furniture as another endeavor which can be done between indexing. That venture will probably include replacing caned and woven chair seats, which, like the craft business Patricia Gross described, won't pay much but is something which can be done while talking or watching TV. And, I enjoy it. It is fun to see the pattern of the seat weaving emerge while you sorta work on auto-pilot brain wise. That makes it pretty different from indexing. ;-) I also do some writing, but that is intense work at the computer and does not give me the feeling of a "break" like the other stuff. (Somehow I cannot *imagine* combining a Bread & Breakfast with indexing, having worked with the public enough to know how demanding & unpredictable people can be.) Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 08:57:41 -0700 Reply-To: indexer@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sherry L. Smith" Subject: special character question In my current book, there are lots of proper names with special characters. Most of these are easily produced with the shortcut process of ALT + #. However, the c with a forward slant is proving difficult. The character is available in the symbol chart under MS Reference 1. The stated shortcut is Alt+0231. However, when I use that shortcut, a different c (with a "squiggly" on the bottom) is produced. I assume that is because the font I am using (and all the other ones I tried) has a certain character assignment for Alt+0231 and the MS Reference 1 just happens to duplicate that assignment. I have tried creating an abbreviation but the squiggly c is still produced rather than the correct c. Macros and hot keys cannot be produced for a special character (the insert button is not available for use in the character window). The fortunate thing---the character can be created. The unfortunate thing--the process is long with many keystrokes. Any ideas on how to make it shorter? Is there a way to change the assigned Alt+#? Thank you to any and all who are working on this patriotic weekend. Sherry Sherry L Smith INDEXING SERVICES 63505 Bridle Lane Bend, OR 97701 541 382 6414 (voice & fax) indexer@ibm.net President of Pacific Northwest Chapter/American Society of Indexers 1999-2000 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:27:05 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: urgent--alphabetizing beta (if it's 'beta') << As Diane said, you're probably indexing B-cells, which is a type of lymphocyte (blood cell, bone marrow derived), and important in immunology. >> Thanks for the info! Actually, as it turns out, I'm indexing the beta cells that are located in the pancreas (it's clear in the text). So it is beta after all. The other kind of B cells turned up too! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:32:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: potentially stupid question Rachel, I'd need to know more about what kind of book this is, but I index a lot of scholarly multi-author books/collections, and it isn't usual practice to index the authors' names at all. I think there may have been a discussion on Index-L about this a while ago. Anyway, I would ask your editor if they want them in the index. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:43:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jacqueline Janezic Subject: What's in a name Having been designated as "the bookworm" (fondly, I hope) by my family for several years, I was delighted to come across a tiny bookworm graphic while considering a name for my indexing business. I did an Internet Search to make sure it was not already taken, and registered the name. I've never regretted it. My hope was that publishers would see my BookWorm logo not as an effort to be "cute," but as a whimsical representation of those most likely to purchase their products. I think Kevin Broccoli's use of the tiny broccoli logo is very clever. I guess it is just a matter of "taste". By the way, Index-L is one of the most interesting, supportive and civilized lists I've seen. Thanks to all who work to keep it that way. Jackie *********************************** Jacqueline Salzman Janezic BookWorm Indexing Services bookwm@en.com 330-562-4906 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:04:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Projects and time I have done the following: give piano and organ lessons church organist selling t shirts veterinary assistant (lasted 2 months!) tuning pianos am looking into selling artwork I think there might be something else but I can't remember what it is. Paula dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:45:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jan Mucciarone Subject: Per-entry rate I'm sure this has been talked about before but I searched through the Archives for 1998-1999 and couldn't actually come up with the latest per entry rate that most of you think is the current 'average'. I just got my "first paying job" and they are offering $.65 per entry. I had always assumed I would give the publishing companies a per page rate, but I didn't have an option here. The book seems like it will be fairly simple - a 400 page adventure travel book - size 9 x 6. They said their books average 1000-1500 entries a book. Does this seem reasonable to most of you? I've got to get something other than Volunteer projects on my resume so I can't be too fussy but I would like to know if this rate is in the current ballpark. Thank you all for your help! Jan Mucciarone Elite Indexing Services janmucc@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 13:24:59 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Per-entry rate Jan Mucciarone wrote: > I just got my > "first paying job" and they are offering $.65 per entry. > book - size 9 x 6. They said their books average 1000-1500 entries a book. > > Jan, I should think you would have closer to 1500 than 1000, don't you? When they pay by the entry, you should not skimp. Congratulations on your first paying job! Jean Middleton IndexEmpire Riverside, CA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 16:01:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: potentially stupid question In-Reply-To: <199907040404.XAA28814@a.mx.execpc.com> >I am too fried to figure this out for myself. The answer is probably really >obvious. I'm doing an index for a book of previously published articles >from the LA Times. The authors of each article are given at the ends of >each. I absolutely can't think how to index them. Just on the page at the >end of the article where their name is? Author name, plus the name of the >article (way too long, they were the original headlines)? Author name with >full range of the article (usually 2-4 pgs)? Author name, articles by, 2,5, >etc. Most authors have more than one article. Some have many, which would >create long strings of locators but that might not matter in this case. > Hi, Rachel. That sounds like an anthology, even though the articles themselves were originally published in a newspaper. When I index scholarly anthologies, I don't index the authors' names at all, just as I wouldn't index the author of an entire book. There's a difference between names of authors *within the text* (in which case, they are subjects) and authors *of text*. If there's an "about the authors" section, the editor might want you to index the authors' names for that location. Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:56:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: my question plus one more In-Reply-To: <93110575401@voyager.together.net> Would the western states chapters/groups please send me notice of any upcoming meetings you're having in the next year? I have a friend who wants to know. Thanks. Thanks to all who answered my question. Of course we decided to leave the authors out. I think I knew that, I just couldn't think. There is a bios page so I will just index that. I just had the very great pleasure of being able to watch the fireworks from my back yard with my neighbors. So great. Hope you all had a nice day. R Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:11:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Hernandez Subject: Re: Per-entry rate Jan, If you have a per page rate in mind, try working it backwards: if you come up with 1200 entries, 1200 x .65 = $780 $780/400pgs = $1.95/pg If you work at a 12pgs/hr speed, this is $23.40/ hour The high end is 1500 entries, $975, or $2.44/pg, $29.25/hr. The low end is 1000 entries, $650, or $1.65/pg, $19.50/hr. What do you think is fair? For my first paying job, I made $189! I suggest you take the job, but don't pad the entries. That's just plain dishonest. And when they figure out you've done it, I sincerely doubt you'll be working for these people again. - Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com (316) 789-0576 (Kansas) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:50:17 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: Per-entry rate In-Reply-To: <199907041246.rnv3vh.6sv.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> Also, be sure you clarify with the client exactly what they are calling an entry -- is it one locator or cross reference (what most indexing software calls one *record*)? Or one line in the index, regardless of how many locators are associated with it? I have never been paid by the entry, but knowing (1) how easy it is to confuse terminology, and (2) for some editors, understanding of indexes and indexing is almost nonexistent (witness Barbara Cohen's story of the editor who wasn't sure how to identify a cross reference...), I would want to be absolutely certain that my client and I were talking about the same animal before I agreed to a project on this basis. What raises a red flag for me about the project you're describing is the mention of "1000 - 1500 entries per book." If this publisher routinely works with freelancers, and receives the finished indexes as word processor files, it's pretty easy for them to find out how many *lines* those indexes contain; any word processor will tell them. But it would be much more difficult for them to determine the number of *locators* in each index, unless they actually have the native file from the indexing software used by the freelancer... and the indexing software itself. (Not that there aren't plenty of editors out there who are very knowledgeable and appreciative of indexes and the work we do...but even most of them don't want to know *that much* about the mechanics of every index we turn in!!) Just something else to consider, along with the "effective" page rate that a per-entry rate implies. Best of luck getting your business going!! Caroline __________________________________________________________ | | Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence | | Indexing services for Books, Technical documents, | Software documentation, and Online help systems | | Tijeras, NM | 505-286-2738 | cparks@mindspring.com | | "Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim." |_________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:58:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Per-entry rate In her recent posting, Susan touched on the main reason I don't like per-entry fees. I never want to decide how in-depth to index, or how many entries to condense (or break out, conversely) on the basis of what it will do to my payment. I want decisions on length of the index and its form to be purely on the merits of the index, tempered by client requirements as to length. I never want the money aspect to enter into that equation. Payment by the indexable page allows the indexer to keep payment rate and indexing choices separated. That's the way I like to work. And for goodness sake, never pad entries. Ethical behavior in business is vital! Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:16:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Off topic: humor on the grammar front Hi all, For those of you still on vacation today - this web site was noted in Earthlink's weekly e-mail newsletter. Remembering the recent thread about misuse of words, I thought some of you might get a laugh from the misuse of "quotes." http://www.juvalamu.com/qmarks/ Enjoy, Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:41:37 -0400 Reply-To: Kevin Broccoli Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: *RESUMES NEEDED* I just got through talking with an individual who is looking for resumes from as many indexers as possible. The work is not book indexing, but indexing of online content. It's actually more like cataloging. I've been talking with this company for over a year, emphasizing human content analysis and organization to them, and it seems to have hit home in a big way. Because the project has not been fully launched, the company name and exact nature of the work is being kept confidential. I know that is odd, but I had to sign an agreement to the like. Thus, mums the word as to who this is for. Also because of the above reason, I've been asked to collect all of the resumes, which I will forward to the said individual. One thing I should mention- this is not your typical indexing work. If you are extremely attached to traditional indexing tasks, you will need to be quite flexible to do this work. I can't promise that this will result in a successful contract for any of you, or that the company will even be successful in this endeavor, but sending your resume cannot hurt. Please tailor it to mention anything that you have done that is related to the Internet. Make sure that the resume is in Word format, preferably Word 97. Please do not send me questions about the project. Everything that I can say I have said above. Lastly, make sure that you send the resume to my e-mail address (broccoli@bim.net) and not to the Index-L list. (I can imagine what my inbox is going to look like tomorrow!) Kevin A. Broccoli Indexer/Information Architect Broccoli Information Management (914)985-9465 broccoli@bim.net http://www.bim.net INDEX CREATION FOR: *Web sites *Intranets *Publications *Online Help ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:41:42 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chi Zhenguo Subject: Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China (English Edition) The latest English edition of Chinese Pharmacopoeia compiled by the Pharmacopoeia Commission of the Ministry of Public Health, is an official and authoritative compendium of drugs. It covers almost traditional Chinese medicines, most of west medicines and preparations, giving information on the standards of purity, description, test, dosage, precaution, storage, and the strength for each drug Dec., 1997; 2 vols; ISBN: 7-5025-2062-7(vol I, herbal medicine volume) and 7-5025-2063-5(vol II, west medicine volume) Contact: Chi Zhenguo Rm.604, Bldg.7, Qian Hai Hua Yuan Tao Yuan West Rd., Nan Tou Nanshan, Shenzhen, Guangdong P.R.China 518052 Fax: +86 755 6568829 E-mail: szchis@sz.gd.cninfo.net Web http://www.tradezone.com/tradesites/chizhenguo.html Best Regards. ===== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 06:40:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Munro Subject: Nepalese names Can anyone tell me what is the correct way of entering Nepalese personal names? For example, how should the name Amar Sing Thapa be entered: Amar Sing Thapa Sing Thapa, Amar Thapa, Amar Sing Thapa, Sing, Amar Grateful for off-list advice Richard Munro rmmunro@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:24:34 -0400 Reply-To: Kevin Broccoli Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: resumes for Internet work Anyone who is sending me resumes- please name your Word files by using *just* your last name. Ex: my file would be named Broccoli.doc I'll take care of cases of repeat last names. -kb ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 13:17:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erin Pierce Subject: Re: Projects and time In-Reply-To: <199907041603.MAA08610@alphaclp.clpgh.org> On Sun, 4 Jul 1999, Ann Truesdale wrote: > > > > Do any of you have another business on the > > side that combines well with indexing as far > > as time? (Indexing is primary source of income.) > > Farming? Bed and Breakfast? Giving Music > > Lessons? > > I do book restoration. There are deadlines, yes, but they do not ever tend to be strict deadlines that are difficult to meet. It seems that if your heirloom bible has been in tatters for many years - most people are thrilled to find someone that can repair it for them - and dont much care if it is done this week or next week. It is working with your hands - which is a wonderful switch from working with your head. I find it a wonderful compliment to indexing. nd it is something that I truly enjoy... Erin Pierce Pierce Indexing Services 412.244.9069 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 11:43:43 -0700 Reply-To: penguins@wave.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Breffni Whelan Subject: Re: Projects and time >On Sun, 4 Jul 1999, Ann Truesdale wrote: > >> > >> > Do any of you have another business on the >> > side that combines well with indexing as far >> > as time? (Indexing is primary source of income.) >> > Farming? Bed and Breakfast? Giving Music >> > Lessons? >> >> I've been working for group homes for developmentally-disabled folks. It's a "substitute" position, which means I can take the work or turn it down, day by day. So when I am real busy with indexing, as I am this summer, I'm not working there much. (Though I couldn't resist signing up for taking the folks on a rafting trip and a camping trip, both of which I'll get paid for, though I may hafta index extra long hours on other days to make up for the time). This is not a high-paying job, but it is one of the few jobs I've had (other than indexing) that I REALLY like... Instead of watching the clock when quitting time rolls around I more tend to hafta pull myself away 15 or 20 minutes late. This is a good non-institutional sort of family environment for the clients and I don't need to wonder if this job is really doing anyone any good. And it keeps me human. Another job I enjoyed was being a census-taker every ten years. It's coming up soon, but I don't think I'll be able to do it this time. Much of the work will be in April and May 2000, with some before and some thru the summer of 2000. They're signing people up now - ^see^ the census bureau website. You can often work in the evenings and weekends. At one point they had me drive up and down all the National Forest roads to see if anyone was living out there. Pay was by the hour plus mileage. Some of the roads were pretty hairy! Wandering through the underbelly of town at 2 a.m. while doing the homeless count was interesting too..... Most people were pretty friendly. Oddly those with the "Trespassers Will Be Eaten Alive"-type of signs were universally friendly, while the few cranks tended toward the "God Bless Our Happy Home" signs with little duck carvings and such. --- Breffni ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 12:10:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Web site worth bookmarking In-Reply-To: <199907060403.VAA04428@mx1.eskimo.com> --=====================_3142635==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" http://www.ceoexpress.com/ The above site has lots of good sources for information. Jeri Voice Transcription Bringing You Tomorrow's Tools for Today's Business 17233 - 140th Avenue SE, Ste. 104 Renton, Washington 98058-7013 (425) 254-1352 --=====================_3142635==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" http://www.ceoexpress.com/

The above site has lots of good sources for information.  

Jeri
Voice Transcription
Bringing You Tomorrow's Tools for Today's Business
17233 - 140th Avenue SE, Ste. 104
Renton, Washington  98058-7013
(425) 254-1352
 --=====================_3142635==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:23:22 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Per-entry rate In-Reply-To: I have only once been paid per entry, and as I spent time and effort paring down the index and removing entries I thought "This extra work is eroding my pay!". Ideally with a fair rate you would end up with the right money for a good job, but psychologically I found it very strange as the first two thirds of my time made the money, and the next one third took some of it away again. GLenda. > In her recent posting, Susan touched on the main reason I don't like > per-entry fees. I never want to decide how in-depth to index, or how many > entries to condense (or break out, conversely) on the basis of > what it will > do to my payment. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:24:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "" I am authoring a help project for a fire alarm system. My help authoring tool is RoboHELP (Version 7), and I am writing for WinHelp 3 platforms. I would like to make the following entries: dampers nonsupervised supervised When I make the entries, damper appears bold in the index because it does not contain a topic. Nonsupervised and supervised appear in plain text because they contain topics. When I compile the project, however, what I get is: dampers:nonsupervised dampers:supervised This outcome irritates me so much I just want to ^&*^%*)&*&!. How should I look at this outcome? Is the compiled result acceptable or can I do something to rectify what I see as a problem? Thanks for your help. Bill Graham ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 08:19:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" In-Reply-To: <199907071041.ro6po2.it7.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> Hi Bill, In order to get that dampers head to not be bold, you need to assign it by itself with no subheads to a topic. Usually I choose a good overview topic for it, but if one is not available, I assign all the topics that are represented in the subheads, so that it forms a "bucket" of stuff. So if you have no overview topic for dampers, your indexing for the "supervised dampers" topic would have two entries: "dampers" and "dampers: supervised." Same for the unsupervised dampers topics... "dampers" and "dampers: unsupervised." Weird, but that's how it works. Jan Wright At 10:24 AM 7/7/99 -0400, you wrote: > I am authoring a help project for a fire alarm system. My help > authoring tool is RoboHELP (Version 7), and I am writing for WinHelp 3 > platforms. I would like to make the following entries: > > dampers > nonsupervised > supervised > > When I make the entries, damper appears bold in the index because it > does not contain a topic. Nonsupervised and supervised appear in plain > text because they contain topics. When I compile the project, however, > what I get is: > > dampers:nonsupervised > dampers:supervised > > This outcome irritates me so much I just want to ^&*^%*)&*&!. How > should I look at this outcome? Is the compiled result acceptable or > can I do something to rectify what I see as a problem? Thanks for your > help. > > Bill Graham =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:19:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Bill Graham's question about nested entries in help Bill Graham wrote: > > I am authoring a help project for a fire alarm system. My help > authoring tool is RoboHELP (Version 7), and I am writing for WinHelp 3 > platforms. I would like to make the following entries: > > dampers > nonsupervised > supervised > > When I make the entries, damper appears bold in the index because it > does not contain a topic. Nonsupervised and supervised appear in plain > text because they contain topics. When I compile the project, however, > what I get is: > > dampers:nonsupervised > dampers:supervised Jan Wright answered: > > In order to get that dampers head to not be bold, you need to assign it by > itself with no subheads to a topic. Usually I choose a good overview topic > for it, but if one is not available, I assign all the topics that are > represented in the subheads, so that it forms a "bucket" of stuff. > > So if you have no overview topic for dampers, your indexing for the > "supervised dampers" topic would have two entries: "dampers" and "dampers: > supervised." Same for the unsupervised dampers topics... "dampers" and > "dampers: unsupervised." Weird, but that's how it works. It depends which "help" you're creating... 32-bit WinHelp ============== To get the results you want, you need to include the "level delimter" in the shorter entry (the one that seems unnecessary): * Assign these keywords to the "supervised dampers" topic: dampers, (Yes, include the comma.) dampers, supervised; * Assign these keywords to the "unsupervised dampers" topic: dampers, (Don't forget the comma!) dampers, unsupervised; You can use either commas or colons to delimit levels. For the best results, though, choose one or the other, and use it consistently throughout your index entries. Microsoft HTML Help =================== In HTML Indexer, it's a lot easier, and it works the way you expect: * Add "dampers, supervised" to the "supervised dampers" topic. * Add "dampers, unsupervised" to the "unsupervised dampers" topic. HTML Indexer creates exactly the kind of nesting you describe: dampers supervised unsupervised It does this for *any number* of levels, and it does it automatically. Even better, if you remove either of the topics, you don't have to go back and adjust the other entry. When you rebuild the index, HTML Indexer automatically changes the remaining entry to a single line: dampers, supervised HTML Indexer is the only tool that automatically formats nested entries appropriately for a classic back-of-the-book index, an HTML Help index, and a JavaHelp index. HTML Indexer is the only way you can index your HTML files *once* and create all three index types with a single click. See the URL below for more information about HTML Indexer. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Bill Graham's question about nested entries in help In-Reply-To: <199907071222.ro6vn0.liu.37kbi14@mx6.mindspring.com> I don't use the comma delimiter in any WinHelp index -- simply because it behaves unpredictably, and I have just made a habit of avoiding it altogether and using the colon delimiter instead. Even when you tell the compiler to ignore the comma delimiter, it can break the entries oddly. So for me, the syntax on those entries would be: dampers; dampers: nonsupervised; and dampers; dampers: supervised; You can do whatever system you want, as long as you do it consistently. But I have a question -- David, are you adding the comma automatically to the end of your entries to ensure the sort works correctly on multiple word entries? I find that if I do that it sorts incorrectly. For example, netlist,; netlist dialog box,; When compiled, sorts as netlist dialog box netlist I think it should be the other way around. It does it this way because it considers the space to come before the comma. I usually fine tune these by doing a space.... netlist[space];... which sorts the netlist up above the dialog box. Jan Wright At 09:19 AM 7/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Bill Graham wrote: >> >> I am authoring a help project for a fire alarm system. My help >> authoring tool is RoboHELP (Version 7), and I am writing for WinHelp 3 >> platforms. I would like to make the following entries: >> >> dampers >> nonsupervised >> supervised >> >> When I make the entries, damper appears bold in the index because it >> does not contain a topic. Nonsupervised and supervised appear in plain >> text because they contain topics. When I compile the project, however, >> what I get is: >> >> dampers:nonsupervised >> dampers:supervised > > >Jan Wright answered: >> >> In order to get that dampers head to not be bold, you need to assign it by >> itself with no subheads to a topic. Usually I choose a good overview topic >> for it, but if one is not available, I assign all the topics that are >> represented in the subheads, so that it forms a "bucket" of stuff. >> >> So if you have no overview topic for dampers, your indexing for the >> "supervised dampers" topic would have two entries: "dampers" and "dampers: >> supervised." Same for the unsupervised dampers topics... "dampers" and >> "dampers: unsupervised." Weird, but that's how it works. > > >It depends which "help" you're creating... > >32-bit WinHelp >============== > >To get the results you want, you need to include the "level delimter" in the > shorter entry (the one that seems unnecessary): > > * Assign these keywords to the "supervised dampers" topic: > > dampers, (Yes, include the comma.) > dampers, supervised; > > * Assign these keywords to the "unsupervised dampers" topic: > > dampers, (Don't forget the comma!) > dampers, unsupervised; > >You can use either commas or colons to delimit levels. For the best results, > though, choose one or the other, and use it consistently throughout your index > entries. > > >Microsoft HTML Help >=================== > >In HTML Indexer, it's a lot easier, and it works the way you expect: > > * Add "dampers, supervised" to the "supervised dampers" topic. > > * Add "dampers, unsupervised" to the "unsupervised dampers" topic. > >HTML Indexer creates exactly the kind of nesting you describe: > > dampers > supervised > unsupervised > >It does this for *any number* of levels, and it does it automatically. > >Even better, if you remove either of the topics, you don't have to go back and > adjust the other entry. When you rebuild the index, HTML Indexer >automatically > changes the remaining entry to a single line: > > dampers, supervised > > >HTML Indexer is the only tool that automatically formats nested entries > appropriately for a classic back-of-the-book index, an HTML Help index, and a > JavaHelp index. > >HTML Indexer is the only way you can index your HTML files *once* and create >all > three index types with a single click. > >See the URL below for more information about HTML Indexer. > >--David > >============================= > David M. Brown - Brown Inc. > dmbrown@brown-inc.com >============================= > >A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ > >HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain >back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. > >Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 11:25:48 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Bill Graham's question about nested entries in help Jan C. Wright wrote: > > I don't use the comma delimiter in any WinHelp index -- simply because it > behaves unpredictably, and I have just made a habit of avoiding it > altogether and using the colon delimiter instead. Even when you tell the > compiler to ignore the comma delimiter, it can break the entries oddly. So > for me, the syntax on those entries would be: > > dampers; > dampers: nonsupervised; > > and > > dampers; > dampers: supervised; > > You can do whatever system you want, as long as you do it consistently. I haven't had any problem with commas. I haven't noticed any difference between them and colons. Again, I just find the comma a much more natural way of thinking of index entries. Also, if I have any index entries that I actually *want* to be on a single line (because there's only one item under the heading), I don't have to go back and change the colon to a comma to have it look right. Consistency really is important, as I mentioned. Without it, you get the hideous indexes so common in help files. > > But I have a question -- David, are you adding the comma automatically to > the end of your entries to ensure the sort works correctly on multiple word > entries? No, I do it because it's the only way I've found to include *all* the subentries in the Topics Found dialog box for the shared heading. As we've discussed on and off the list, that's just the way I prefer headings to work in help indexes! :) > > I find that if I do that it sorts incorrectly... I usually fine tune these by > doing a space.... netlist[space];... which sorts the netlist up above the > dialog box. Yep--I didn't address that, because it seems like a different issue. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:05:23 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William G Meisheid Subject: Re: Bill Graham's question about nested entries in help In-Reply-To: <199907071829.OAA16531@www.honza.com> To add my 2 cents here. I only use colons because I want to use commas as punctuation, including on the second level or below (our EHTD product does index levels below 2--it also fixes the first level problem so you can have unattached level parents in WinHelp). I also use colons because RoboHELP enforces them, even when you don't want it to. It makes life a little simpler for the clients. Hopefully RoboHELP 2000 will fix some of the indexing quirks of RoboHELP. ________________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP Certified Baltimore/Washington area RoboHELP Training Sageline Publishing 410.465.2040 Fax: 410.465.1812 http://www.sageline.com email: wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:18:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Bill Graham's question about nested entries in help William G Meisheid wrote: > > I only use colons because I want to use commas as punctuation, > including on the second level or below You can designate any comma as simple punctuation in HTML Indexer-- just precede it with a backslash. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:11:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Landeen Subject: Re: projects and time >Wow! I only do one other thing. I'm a motivational speaker on transformational change. It pays really well, I travel to do it, I meet and talk to lots of people. A good balance for an extremely introverted indexer who would mostly rather index than be outgoing. >From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" >Subject: Re: Projects and time > >I have done the following: > >give piano and organ lessons >church organist >selling t shirts >veterinary assistant (lasted 2 months!) >tuning pianos >am looking into selling artwork > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:01:58 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: AusSI Newsletter for July available on the Web By the time you read this the AusSI Newsletter for July should be available on the Web at: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/anl/9906jul Jon ------------------------------ Jonathan Jermey Webmaster, Australian Society of Indexers http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi aussi@zeta.org.au ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:01:59 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: New web host for AusSI - any suggestions? The possibility has been raised of moving the AusSI website to a commercial Web hosting service. The main requirements, in declining order of importance, are: 1. Affordability 2. Use of e-mail aliases to redirect mail to AusSI officials 3. Provision of a domain name (e.g. www.SocIndex.org.au) 4. The provider should be in Australia. I realise that some of these can be done separately, but I would like to hear from anyone who had had good (or bad) experiences with getting this sort of package from a web host so that I have some idea what to expect and to look out for. Thanks in advance, Jon. ------------------------------ Jonathan Jermey Webmaster, Australian Society of Indexers http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi aussi@zeta.org.au