Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9906E" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:08:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Question for collective wisdom In-Reply-To: <199906290403.XAA00169@a.mx.execpc.com> >Carol and Charles, > >Your construction here makes me think that one could eliminate "for" in nearly >all "treatment" cases, while retaining the use of other modifiers/antecedents >for other types of entries, so... > > Homeopathic remedies > back pain > headache > indigestion from > insomnia > as quackery > substances to avoid > and vaccination > >I think this was Charles's original idea, but he didn't like it? I guess I'm >not sure either, but we can look at it anyway. > >Just a thought./Dan I think this could work, but I would want to add something in front of "substances to avoid" ("and" is all that comes to mind at this hour), for greater consistency. I must admit, though, I'd still rather have all the "for"s reinstated. I think what's gain in neatness/beauty/brevity is at the expense of clarity. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:12:38 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Reasons for embedded indexing In-Reply-To: Paula, As I understand it you could practice embedded indexing with MS Word using any Word document you have. I only ever did this years ago, and my major problem (which was insurmountable) was that Word would repaginate before it created the index, and it always repaginated with different page breaks to those I had when I started indexing. I assume this sort of problem has been fixed by now. As for web indexing, why don't you try HTML Indexer. You can download a demo version from http://www.html-indexer.com/, and experiment with any web site you have access to. The indexing tags are embedded in the web sites. (If it is a real web site make sure you make a copy before you start fiddling). Do the tutorial once or twice and then try your own site. To me embedded indexing can apply to any format; also not all web indexing is embedded, so you can also experiment with manually created web indexes. Glenda. > > I've been curious about this for awhile but my computer skills were so > minimal it wasn't worth asking. They're a bit better now, so here goes: I > know absolutely nothing about embedded indexing or indexing the Web. What > do you recommend in the way of educating oneself about embedded indexing? > I imagine embedded indexing is the main area and that indexing > Web material > follows from that. I have Microsoft Word 97 and CINDEX and not much else > in the way of software. I'd like to get my hands on some web sites and > search engines and make the world a better place to live > (eventually, after > much study!) > > If this is tedious beyond belief for those who already index > electronically, you can respond off-list. > > Paula Durbin-Westby > dwindex@louisa.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:12:39 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: subentries starting with for (or in): Was 'Question for collective wisdom' In-Reply-To: When indexing I avoid prepositions where possible. If they remain, it is because they are important in some way, and having a number of headings starting with the same preposition does not worry me at all. In fact, I seem to be unique in that I actually *like* the way things are grouped with 'for' at the beginning. A separate issue: I indexed a book called "Pharmacology and Drug Information for Nurses". It had a huge committee of advisors, and they got a lot of feedback from nurse educators and students who had used previous editions. This made it rather interesting, as it is rare to have feedback from users when indexing a book. They requested that instead of 'for' I used 'in'. The entries for the homeopathy book would be: Homeopathic remedies in back pain in headache and so on. I found this a bit strange at first, but now I like it. 'For' can be ambiguous, as it also means 'to make it happen'. eg 'caffeine, for weight loss' means you want the weight loss, but 'aspirin, for headache' means you *don't* want the headache. 'In' was also useful in entries such as 'aspirin, in pregnancy' where the pregnancy was neither caused by, nor avoided by, the aspirin. Glenda. > Carol Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > >Homeopathic remedies > > > for back pain =20 > > > for headache > > > for insomnia > > > substances to avoid > > > and vaccination > > > > If they're needed for clarity and consistency, I'd leave them in. Above > > all, an index should be functional, and those words certainly serve a > > function. If there were something in the book about whether homeopathic > > remedies are quackery, and index entry like the following might > suggest a > > discussion of remedies for quackery: > > > > Homeopathic remedies > > back pain > > headache > > insomnia > > quackery > > substances to avoid > > vaccination > > > > Carol and Charles, > > Your construction here makes me think that one could eliminate > "for" in nearly > all "treatment" cases, while retaining the use of other > modifiers/antecedents > for other types of entries, so... > > Homeopathic remedies > back pain > headache > indigestion from > insomnia > as quackery > substances to avoid > and vaccination > > I think this was Charles's original idea, but he didn't like it? > I guess I'm > not sure either, but we can look at it anyway. > > Just a thought./Dan > -- > ============================= > Daniel A. Connolly > mailto:connolly@neca.com > Word For Word Indexing Services > http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com > Woodstock, CT, USA > ============================= > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:17:04 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Graf Subject: Official Names of Companies Everyone, I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", "Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and "Inc."?) I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official Websites of the various companies. How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:33:16 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Graf Subject: Fascinating Article If anyone already mentioned this, forgive me--I've been on vacation and have had my Index-L set to "No Mail." A fascinating article appeared in last Monday's (June 21) Wall Street Journal. It appeared on page R14 of a special "Technology" section that was published as an addition to the regular paper. The article is entitled, "In Search of...Finding a better Internet search engine will go a long way toward solving the overload problem. We're getting closer." "We're getting closer" really made me laugh out loud, because I don't think we're close at all! In my view, indexers have a huge opportunity in Web indexing/information architecture/whatever-the-techs-want-to-call-it. The author touches on this a little bit when he speaks about in-house editorial staff at Yahoo, for instance. If you can get your hands on a copy, you may find this article as interesting as I did! Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:47:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Online Dictionaries/Glossaries/Encyclopedias Hello all, Last night, as I was stumbling around on the Net (which still needs a good index, folks), I ran into the following sites: http://www.pacific-mall.com/dictnary/index.htm http://www.pacific-mall.com/encyclo/index.htm http://www.pacific-mall.com/glossary/index.htm Some of the dictionaries, etc., are familiar, but there were several that were not, so check it out. Cynthia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:55:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: Reasons for embedded indexing Glenda wrote: As I understand it you could practice embedded indexing with MS Word using any Word document you have. I only ever did this years ago, and my major problem (which was insurmountable) was that Word would repaginate before it created the index, and it always repaginated with different page breaks to those I had when I started indexing. I assume this sort of problem has been fixed by now. Seems odd -- the only way the page breaks would change is if you added content or changed printers. Also, obviously, if the display of index fields is turned on, page breaks will vary as you add index entries -- but you need to turn off that display in order to generate an accurate index. John Sullivan Stratus Computer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:42:17 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Job Op at Chadwyck-Healy From the Washington Post: REPLY TO: jobs@chadwyck.com (not me, not the list) EDITORIAL ABSTRACTORS/INDEXERS Electronic publishing company of arts and humanities products seeks entry-level abstractor/ indexer for literature product. B.A., excellent writing skills required. Must be able to work as part of a team. Indexing experience. critical theory and/or linguistics background a plus. Mail, fax or email resume to Indexing Editor, Chadwyck-Healy Inc., 1101 King Street, Suite 380, Alexandria, VA 22314. Fax: (703) 683-7589. Email: jobs@chadwyck.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:31:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: CINDEX/Win question... In-Reply-To: <199906281626.MAA25157@mail2.bellsouth.net> I have a quick question which one of ya'll can probably answer right off the top: I've contracted for an index to a large multi-volume work (over a period of a year, fortunately), and I need to be able to type page references of the pattern "3-369" and "16-28" where the first digit(s) is the volume number. What I want to be able to do is set CINDEX/Win so that the "3-" or "16-" part appears in the appropriate field automatically when I hit CTRL-K. I'll be doing one volume at a time, of course, and I intend to do each volume as a separate index file and merge them at the end (for easier editing). So I need to be able to set the "automatic text" (or whatever it is) it for the duration of each volume; that way, I won't have to keep remembering to type the volume-prefix. I might be able to run a search/replace at the end of each volume's input, but I'd rather have it happen automatically. I'm sure this was something you could do in CINDEX/Dos, but I can't for the life of me find it in the Help file for CINDEX/Win! Thanks! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:36:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Lane Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Debbie Graf wrote -- >Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name >of the company in the index. . . . > >I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and >I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. . . >Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out >there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! Try Hoover's. It's searchable, and if you use the wrong form of a name, it will point that out and suggest alternatives. http://www.hoovers.com/ Karen Lane klane@klane.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:57:13 -0400 Reply-To: clmonroe Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: clmonroe Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies One site that consolidates lots of links to info about both private and public companies is www.corporateinformation.com You may find this to be a useful starting place when you are searching for corp. names. I use it whenever I do company research. Cindy ----- Original Message ----- From: Debra Graf To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:17 AM Subject: Official Names of Companies > Everyone, > > I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names > are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). > Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name > of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft > Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division > of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", > "Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and > "Inc."?) > > I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and > I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to > log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, > get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I > start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. > Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I > think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look > at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that > doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with > that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official > Websites of the various companies. > > How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out > there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! > > Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:56:24 -0500 Reply-To: kspern@bestweb.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Spern Subject: FW: An article of interest from Computer Currents This is an article a colleague found on web indexing / site mapping. Enjoy! Karen Spern Archive Impact http://www.archiveimpact.com Do I Have to Draw You a Map? Site guides and indexes made easy By: Elizabeth Powell Crowe First Published: June 29, 1999 URL: http://www.currents.net/magazine/national/1712/nets1712.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:11:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith McQuay Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Debra, I don't think you can or should be any more specific than the text. How can you extrapolate if it's not clear in the text what exact entity is being discussed? I suspect that if corporate entities are not precicely named in the text it is because it is not appropriate or necessary given the nature of the work and you'd be putting words in the author's mouth to attempt to clarify in the index. I would make cross-references if there are other wildly different names in common use but that's all. Keith McQuay Foreword Indexing Services 613-278-0426 http://Foreword.pair.com foreword@bigfoot.com ---------- >From: Debra Graf >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Subject: Official Names of Companies >Date: Tue, Jun 29, 1999, 7:17 AM > >Everyone, > >I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names >are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). >Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name >of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft >Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division >of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", >"Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and >"Inc."?) > >I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and >I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to >log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, >get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I >start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. >Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I >think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look >at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that >doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with >that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official >Websites of the various companies. > >How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out >there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! > >Debbie Graf > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:01:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: subentries starting with for (or in): Was 'Question for collective wisdom' Lots of interesting and helpful insights came from my question - the first I've ever posted. I've encountered this issue a number of times over the past years of indexing, but I guess this was the first time I ever had entries that would run on for an entire column starting with "for." I like the "in" suggestion too - and may try that if it comes up again. Just to put closure, I decided to leave them in, but did a quick search and replace in Microsoft Word (being careful not to replace ""for's" that I wanted to keep), saved it and offered the editor the option of e-mailing an alternate if they wished. Thanks again everyone. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 4:17 AM Subject: Re: subentries starting with for (or in): Was 'Question for collective wisdom' >When indexing I avoid prepositions where possible. If they remain, it is >because they are important in some way, and having a number of headings >starting with the same preposition does not worry me at all. In fact, I seem >to be unique in that I actually *like* the way things are grouped with 'for' >at the beginning. > >A separate issue: I indexed a book called "Pharmacology and Drug Information >for Nurses". It had a huge committee of advisors, and they got a lot of >feedback from nurse educators and students who had used previous editions. >This made it rather interesting, as it is rare to have feedback from users >when indexing a book. They requested that instead of 'for' I used 'in'. The >entries for the homeopathy book would be: > >Homeopathic remedies > in back pain > in headache >and so on. > >I found this a bit strange at first, but now I like it. 'For' can be >ambiguous, as it also means 'to make it happen'. eg 'caffeine, for weight >loss' means you want the weight loss, but 'aspirin, for headache' means you >*don't* want the headache. 'In' was also useful in entries such as 'aspirin, >in pregnancy' where the pregnancy was neither caused by, nor avoided by, the >aspirin. > >Glenda. > >> Carol Roberts wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >Homeopathic remedies >> > > for back pain =20 >> > > for headache >> > > for insomnia >> > > substances to avoid >> > > and vaccination >> > >> > If they're needed for clarity and consistency, I'd leave them in. Above >> > all, an index should be functional, and those words certainly serve a >> > function. If there were something in the book about whether homeopathic >> > remedies are quackery, and index entry like the following might >> suggest a >> > discussion of remedies for quackery: >> > >> > Homeopathic remedies >> > back pain >> > headache >> > insomnia >> > quackery >> > substances to avoid >> > vaccination >> > >> >> Carol and Charles, >> >> Your construction here makes me think that one could eliminate >> "for" in nearly >> all "treatment" cases, while retaining the use of other >> modifiers/antecedents >> for other types of entries, so... >> >> Homeopathic remedies >> back pain >> headache >> indigestion from >> insomnia >> as quackery >> substances to avoid >> and vaccination >> >> I think this was Charles's original idea, but he didn't like it? >> I guess I'm >> not sure either, but we can look at it anyway. >> >> Just a thought./Dan >> -- >> ============================= >> Daniel A. Connolly >> mailto:connolly@neca.com >> Word For Word Indexing Services >> http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com >> Woodstock, CT, USA >> ============================= >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:16:02 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I agree with Keith. While there are obviously some exceptions, specific to editor requests or misleading name information, I tend to use the name as it is written in the text. If there are several versions in the text (i.e. Ford; Ford Motor; Ford Motor Company) I will select the more complete name used in the text to put in the index. If the text consistently uses a "nickname" for the company then I would use a cross reference between the official company name and the "nickname" used in the text just as you would for an acronym. While a good index should obviously contain accurate names it should also reflect the text. This is yet another balancing act for the indexer :-). Best, Sylvia Coates Keith McQuay wrote: > Debra, > I don't think you can or should be any more specific than the text. How > can you extrapolate if it's not clear in the text what exact entity is being > discussed? I suspect that if corporate entities are not precicely named in > the text it is because it is not appropriate or necessary given the nature > of the work and you'd be putting words in the author's mouth to attempt to > clarify in the index. I would make cross-references if there are other > wildly different names in common use but that's all. > > Keith McQuay > Foreword Indexing Services > 613-278-0426 > http://Foreword.pair.com > foreword@bigfoot.com > > ---------- > >From: Debra Graf > >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > >Subject: Official Names of Companies > >Date: Tue, Jun 29, 1999, 7:17 AM > > > > >Everyone, > > > >I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names > >are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). > >Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name > >of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft > >Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division > >of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", > >"Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and > >"Inc."?) > > > >I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and > >I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to > >log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, > >get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I > >start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. > >Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I > >think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look > >at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that > >doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with > >that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official > >Websites of the various companies. > > > >How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out > >there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! > > > >Debbie Graf > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:45:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Powers Subject: Web Indexing PDF Documents Hi! I need to know what tool to use to create a Web index to go over about 30 PDF documents. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks! Karen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:30:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" In-Reply-To: <199906232001.QAA01083@mail2.bellsouth.net> I use the "bookman" logo (a little guy in a cap with a feather, carrying a huge stack of large books) that appears on my web site -- and also on my business card, my brochure, and my invoices. I have a strong dislike of "cutesy" in any form (yellow 'smile' buttons make me grit my teeth), but the logo I use is mid-19th century (and I'm sort of an antiquarian), therefore in the public domain, and it's applicable to anything having to do with books -- and I do copyediting, some freelance writing and documentation work, and even occasional book-hunting and book-selling. I didn't use a pictorial logo at all for many years, until I just happened to come across this one in a collection of clip art. By the same token, I chose to go with just a plain business name rather than something inventive... or maybe I just couldn't think of a good one! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. |I agree w/ all that Sonsie had to say on this matter. However, sometimes a |"cutesy logo" isn't so bad. | |I know, for example, that Maria Coughlin uses a little cat logo. |When I saw |the logo recently (at the Mass Society of Indexers conference) on the cover |of some folders, it didn't even have her name there, but I knew immediately |who they came from. :-) And Maria is certainly *not* suffering for work. | |I use a broccoli logo with little feet. I was originally hesitant about |this, but many fellow indexers here on Index-L urged me on. I find that |publishers say, 'yes we received your info, I remember the little broccoli |spear!' | |Well, I'm being picky here, but I just think that using a logo that really |sticks in the minds of individuals to whom we market can really go a long |way. | |-Kevin Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:37:48 -0000 Reply-To: Christine Shuttleworth Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: subentries starting with for (or in) Glenda Browne wrote: < 'For' can be ambiguous, as it also means 'to make it happen'. eg 'caffeine, for weight loss' means you want the weight loss, but 'aspirin, for headache' means you *don't* want the headache. 'In' was also useful in entries such as 'aspirin, in pregnancy' where the pregnancy was neither caused by, nor avoided by, the aspirin. This reminds me of when I went into a pharmacy in Italy and requested something 'per le zanzare' (for the mosquitoes). The pharmacist kindly corrected me. 'No, signora, *contra* le zanzare' (against the mosquitoes). Should we have entries reading, e.g., 'aspirin, against headache'? Or does this sound weird? Christine ************************************************************ Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB cshuttle@dircon.co.uk ************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:06:33 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Owens Subject: Re: Chemical symbols Dear All I would appreciate help with a small problem. In the index I am working on at the moment, the author uses a number of simple chemical symbols, like for Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen Isotopes. Science is not my subject and I just can't work out how to get my computer to cope with these symbols, ie to put the appropriate number either above or below the letters. I use Word 97. Would it be acceptable to highlight these symbols on the hard copy and leave it for the publisher to do?? Many thanks Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:31:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I generally go with what the company calls itself when communicating with the public. It is the same rule as for people. When in doubt, I look the company up in the telephone book (having the Manhattan book is handy, but almost any big phone book will probably do). Specifically, the company the New York Times calls "International Business Machine Corporation" is listing in the white pages as "IBM." I'm sure that the company made that choice, not Bell Atlantic (or, going back a few years, NYNEX or the New York Telephone Company). If there is any ambiguity, you may have to go with the full name. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:34:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: CINDEX/Win question... > I'll be doing one volume at a time, of course, and I intend to do each > volume as a separate index file and merge them at the end (for easier > editing). So I need to be able to set the "automatic text" (or whatever it > is) it for the duration of each volume; that way, I won't have to keep > remembering to type the volume-prefix. I might be able to run a > search/replace at the end of each volume's input, but I'd rather have it > happen automatically. > IMO, using search/replace at the end of all the final editing for a volume is simpler. Otherwise, correcting a page number is likely to affect the volume number also (I'm often a clumsy typer) and require more concentration during entry. Using the search and replace patterns is a little clumsy, but my manual almost automatically falls open to the example on p.228-229. Janet Russell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:44:22 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: multi-volume work In-Reply-To: <199906252336.QAA14121@nccn2.nccn.net> At 07:36 PM 6/25/99 EDT, you wrote: >Has anyone had experience with working on periodicals that started almost >with Adam (well not exactly)? I am starting on a project involving monthly >volumes that started out in the middle of a year with the April issue as vol. >I, #1, and following issues continued #2, #3, etc., and was each paginated >from 1 to 8. After two years, volume III, still had #1 commencing in April, >but the paginationwas changed and ran from 1 to 320 through the full >"fiscal" year. This patten was continued for a long time, then the "fiscal" >year was changed to calendar year and ran from Jan. to Dec., and pages were >again numbered starting with page 1 each month. To top things off, there was >a two month period following a format change where there were about 12 pages >un-numbered. I suppose my introductory note could mention the un-numbered >pages and I could arbitrarily letter them from A to J, but the changes in >page numbering have me worried. Any ideas? >John A. John Abbott: If you use locators in a volume/issue/page# format such as "III.1.76, III.1.225" or "III.1: 76, 225" the locators will, of course, reflect the oddities of the changes in page numbering and volume numbering but this won't be a problem. Alternatively, if you use a month/year/page# locator format such as "Apr75: 12, 136", you can avoid reflecting the numbering oddities and, more importantly, (1) name the issues in the way in which most readers will probably think of them and tend to look them up, and (2) greatly improve index readability IMO. The choice of format is for your publisher to make, and so far mine have chosen the latter. As for the unnumbered pages, how about using page numbers within parentheses to suggest in the locators themselves (as well as in a headnote) that the pages are actually unnumbered? Michael Brackney Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:54:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I might query the editor before spending a great deal of time searching the Web for names. I'd also look at whether or not the author is being inconsistent throughout the book. And, what would the index user be likely to look for? In the past I tended to research the "correct" name but recently have been using the author's terminology UNLESS the author is inconsistent, in which case I try to determine the answer from the user's point of view, researching only if I deem it necessary. If the author refers to Toyota, and the real name is Toyota Motors Incorporated, the user is going to find the name regardless of how you enter it. In my experience, if Toyota Motors, European Division is that important, the author will be specific. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:20:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: AAUP web page has job ads Just heard about this -- probably old news to a lot of you. The AAUP web page at http://aaupnet.org/ (note: NOT "aaup.net," which is something else) now has job ads posted, which are useful to freelancers too, because they list specific job duties such as "Hire and supervise freelance editors, proofreaders, and indexers ..." -- BINGO! You know they hire indexers, and you know the job title of the person to write to -- no confusion about "should I write to the Production Editor or the Managing Editor, or the Assistant M.E., or ..." Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 18:39:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Arabic names Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways to alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting and for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as Jamal in the text. Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know which way, if any, is au courant. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:48:33 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: CINDEX/Win question... In-Reply-To: Date sent: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:31:07 -0500 You can get the whole of the number to stay in the locator field, but not just the volume number, as far as I know. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:26:21 +1000 Reply-To: Brian V Taylor Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Brian V Taylor Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies -----Original Message----- From: Debra Graf To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, 29 June 1999 9:17 Subject: Official Names of Companies Hello, You might have tried this by now. There is a government department that companies must declare their official trading name through. e.g. K.F.C trades under Kentucky Fried Chicken in some states in Australia, but under KFC in others. This is because the name KFC had been taken by someone else before Colonel Sanders' company could use it. Many companies trade under completely different names than their public name. The exact name of the government department in your area I do not know but the local Consumer Affairs Department might be able to tell you. Thank you, Ngaire ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:31:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephanie Reymann Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I would choose the name (in whatever form) most frequently used in the text as the main posting. If necessary, I would make a cross reference from other names that the reader would expect to find. I would always consider the audience. For most books with a general audience, I would end it there without doing all the time-consuming research you are currently doing. Stephanie J. Reymann Indexing Solutions sreymann@IndexingSolutions.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Debra Graf > > I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names > are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). > Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name > of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft > Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division > of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", > "Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and > "Inc."?) > > I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and > I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to > log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, > get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I > start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. > Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I > think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look > at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that > doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with > that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official > Websites of the various companies. > > How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out > there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! > > Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:17:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Underline disappeared from New Record box (CINDEX/Windows) Well, the craziest thing just happened ... I have been editing an index and the U button in the NEW Record Box just disappeared. I have an F (which is default font and I can't do anything to it, never saw that before, I don't think), B, and I (as usual). WHAT IN THE HECK IS GOING ON? HOW DO I GET THE U BACK? Help fast! I can underline with keystrokes, but .... Cynthia ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony." --Careme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:56:29 -0700 Reply-To: nisc@webaccess.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Luana Heikes Organization: NISC Colorado Subject: pay rates June 29, 1999 Hi, I'm new to the list. I work as a salaried employee indexing and abstracting journal articles for a database. We have several contracting indexers and I would like to know the average rate of pay for independent indexers--basically the industry standards. Our indexers do all data entry -- including all bibliographic information, geographical areas, taxonomic and common names of species, use a closed thesaurus for our indexing terms, and write a three-to-five -sentence abstract that covers the gist of each article/paper. Thanks for any information you can send me. Luana ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 09:06:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: An article of interest from Computer Currents > Do I Have to Draw You a Map? > Site guides and indexes made easy > By: Elizabeth Powell Crowe > First Published: June 29, 1999 > URL: http://www.currents.net/magazine/national/1712/nets1712.html I read Ms. Crowe's article with interest, and I certainly agree with her point that a good web site requires a good TOC and index. The article is actually a review of a site-mapping program called SurfMap. I like graphical representations of large web sites, because they frequently do a better job than a TOC of showing the site's organization. SurfMap sounds like an easy way to create site maps, and I'd definitely give it a try. The reviewer goes on to describe how SurfMap also creates an index. From the description, though, it looks like what you actually get is a concordance, rather than an index. I still don't believe a concordance is as useful as a real index, compiled by a human being who has analyzed the site's content, judged entries for their value in context, recognized likely alternative entries, evaluated appropriate depth of indexing across the site, and ensured consistent treatment of entries. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:56:33 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Graf Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Well there's a point from Keith! I thought it was my job as an indexer to seek out the full name of the company, just as I would seek out a person's full name. An example would be "Einstein" (who is listed in this book). He is listed as just "Einstein", but I have listed him in the index as "Einstein, Albert." What do others think? And, thanks, Karen for the "Hoovers" suggestion, and Cindy for the Corporate Information site. Very helpful. Thanks, Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:16:02 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies I agree with Keith. While there are obviously some exceptions, specific to editor requests or misleading name information, I tend to use the name as it is written in the text. If there are several versions in the text (i.e. Ford; Ford Motor; Ford Motor Company) I will select the more complete name used in the text to put in the index. If the text consistently uses a "nickname" for the company then I would use a cross reference between the official company name and the "nickname" used in the text just as you would for an acronym. While a good index should obviously contain accurate names it should also reflect the text. This is yet another balancing act for the indexer :-). Best, Sylvia Coates Keith McQuay wrote: > Debra, > I don't think you can or should be any more specific than the text. How > can you extrapolate if it's not clear in the text what exact entity is being > discussed? I suspect that if corporate entities are not precicely named in > the text it is because it is not appropriate or necessary given the nature > of the work and you'd be putting words in the author's mouth to attempt to > clarify in the index. I would make cross-references if there are other > wildly different names in common use but that's all. > > Keith McQuay > Foreword Indexing Services > 613-278-0426 > http://Foreword.pair.com > foreword@bigfoot.com > > ---------- > >From: Debra Graf > >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > >Subject: Official Names of Companies > >Date: Tue, Jun 29, 1999, 7:17 AM > > > > >Everyone, > > > >I have been indexing a book that has A LOT of company names in it. The names > >are referred to casually (i.e. "Microsoft", "Toyota", "Egghead"). > >Indexer-that-I-am, I, of course, have felt compelled to put the official name > >of the company in the index. (Is that "Microsoft Corp.", "Microsoft > >Corporation"; "Toyota Motor Corporation", or do they mean the U.S. division > >of "Toyota", European division, or something else?; "Egghead.com", > >"Egghead.com, Inc."--is there really a comma between "Egghead.com" and > >"Inc."?) > > > >I have spent an inordinate amount of time determining the official names and > >I was wondering how any of you approach this problem. My method has been to > >log onto the Web, go to Google or Hotbot, type in "company name" Home Page, > >get myself to the company's official Web site, and start hunting around. I > >start by trying to view a company press release, if the company is public. > >Barring that, I try to look at several other areas on the Website, get what I > >think MIGHT be the official company name, and then go to "Free Edgar" to look > >at a 10-K or 10-Q (that only works if the company is a public one). If that > >doesn't work, I just try to come up with some sort of consensus and go with > >that. As you can imagine, there are inconsistencies even on the official > >Websites of the various companies. > > > >How do others handle this? Is there some "authority" or "authorities" out > >there that I should be using instead? Thanks, in advance, for any ideas! > > > >Debbie Graf > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:18:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" Subject: Re: Arabic names As someone who has dealt with Arabic names from the reader/researcher end I prefer 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) This is what most researchers would be used to and would be looking for. Brian (See Dear, I told you that degree would come in handy some day, and I only have ten more years of payments on the student loan.) Technical Librarian/Indexer Legislative Library North Carolina General Assembly brianp@ms.ncga.state.nc.us -----Original Message----- From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby [mailto:dwindex@LOUISA.NET] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 6:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Arabic names Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways to alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting and for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as Jamal in the text. Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know which way, if any, is au courant. Paula Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:30:24 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ling Heang Subject: Re: Arabic names ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- >2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) I was brought up in an Islamic country and (1) & (2) would not be the = way it's being indexed.=20 'Muhammad Hamid' is the first name and 'al-Jamal' is the name of = Muhammad Hamid's father. I hope it makes sense as muslims don't have = surnames.=20 Thus, muslim name should be indexed as it appeared - 'Muhammad Hamid = al-Jamal'. (not sure what the editor will comment about that) However, = to conform to the "English" indexing style, (2) is more appropriate. Ling Heang Email: HEANGSL@bigfoot.com -----Original Message----- From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby [SMTP:dwindex@LOUISA.NET] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 6:39 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Arabic names Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways = to alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting = and for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as = Jamal in the text. Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know which way, if any, is au courant. 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Jun 1999 07:36:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Halter, Meg" Subject: Re: Chemical symbols HI Richard -- You can do this using equation editor in MS Word. Unfortunately, it isn't part of the standard install in word. If you do have it installed, put your cursor where you want to place the symbols, go to Insert > Object and in the "Create new" tab, select "Microsoft Equation 3.0". It'll fire up a little equation box to type in and a special tool bar. The equation editor is a slighly reduced version of MathType and is very easy to use. If you don't have it installed, you can do so easily through Add/Remove Programs. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly where equation editor was in the nested list of components. Hope this helps. -- Meg > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Owens [SMTP:owens@THECAFE.CO.UK] > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 12:07 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Chemical symbols > > Dear All > > I would appreciate help with a small problem. In the index I am working > on > at the moment, the author uses a number of simple chemical symbols, like > for Carbon Dioxide and Oxygen Isotopes. Science is not my subject and I > just can't work out how to get my computer to cope with these symbols, ie > to put the appropriate number either above or below the letters. I use > Word 97. > > Would it be acceptable to highlight these symbols on the hard copy and > leave it for the publisher to do?? > > Many thanks > > Richard ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:41:43 -0400 Reply-To: clmonroe Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: clmonroe Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" Folks, A good book to read about marketing services is "Selling the Invisible: A Field Guide to Modern Marketing" by Harry Beckwith. This is a great read, full of practical and inspiring advice. Beckwith advises "If you need a name for your service, start with your own." I think this is especially true for freelancers. Anything you can do to get your name remembered is good! Only bad thing about the book-- no index! Cindy Monroe Monroe Knowledge Services (!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael K. Smith To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 9:30 AM Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" > I use the "bookman" logo (a little guy in a cap with a feather, carrying a > huge stack of large books) that appears on my web site -- and also on my > business card, my brochure, and my invoices. I have a strong dislike of > "cutesy" in any form (yellow 'smile' buttons make me grit my teeth), but the > logo I use is mid-19th century (and I'm sort of an antiquarian), therefore > in the public domain, and it's applicable to anything having to do with > books -- and I do copyediting, some freelance writing and documentation > work, and even occasional book-hunting and book-selling. I didn't use a > pictorial logo at all for many years, until I just happened to come across > this one in a collection of clip art. > > By the same token, I chose to go with just a plain business name rather than > something inventive... or maybe I just couldn't think of a good one! > > Mike > > Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services > mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 > http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with > an excellent vocabulary. > > |I agree w/ all that Sonsie had to say on this matter. However, sometimes a > |"cutesy logo" isn't so bad. > | > |I know, for example, that Maria Coughlin uses a little cat logo. |When I > saw > |the logo recently (at the Mass Society of Indexers conference) on the cover > |of some folders, it didn't even have her name there, but I knew immediately > |who they came from. :-) And Maria is certainly *not* suffering for work. > | > |I use a broccoli logo with little feet. I was originally hesitant about > |this, but many fellow indexers here on Index-L urged me on. I find that > |publishers say, 'yes we received your info, I remember the little broccoli > |spear!' > | > |Well, I'm being picky here, but I just think that using a logo that really > |sticks in the minds of individuals to whom we market can really go a long > |way. > | > |-Kevin Broccoli > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:23:31 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Krys Bottrill Subject: Re: Chemical symbols Hello Richard, I need to type chemical formulae quite often and use the superscript and subscript facility for this purpose. You can get at it through the "format font" command, but I have inserted two buttons for superscript and subscript on my formatting toolbar - right click on the toolbar, select "customise" from the menu, select "format" from the commands, and then find the command you need from the list and drag the button onto the toolbar. krys (who is biting her nails, waiting for the results of the SI Unit A test) Krys Bottrill, BSc PhD MIInfSc Head of Information Services, FRAME 96-98 N Sherwood St, Nottingham, NG1 4EE, UK tel: 0115 9584740; fax: 0115 9503570; http://www.frame-uk.demon.co.uk/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:52:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Thompson Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Debra and others who are encountering problems with names may want to consult my KeyWords articles about problems with all kinds of names and using the Library of Congress Name Authority File to see how librarians have solved these problems in library catalogs. The first article appeared in the March/April 1998 issue (personal names) and the second in the July/August 1998 issue (corporate names, i.e. names of groups of all kinds). (Incidentally, there is also a Subject Authority File for the subject headings LC uses, in another part of the database and the LC web site also refers to them as the thesauri of names and subjects.) At the ASI conference in Indianapolis I conducted a workshop where we looked at examples of the records contained in this database and the meanings of some of the codes that are helpful to know. Whenever I've tried to explain this technical subject to people who don't have a cataloging librarian background I get concerned about whether it's possible to do so. However, the 13 attendees of the workshop seemed to get a lot out of it and I made two "house calls" to indexers attending the conference who had manuscripts they were working on who wanted to see if I could help. If I hear from attendees that they have found the information understandable and useful I would be willing to present the workshop for local chapters. Please contact me if you'd like further information, are unable to get hold of the articles, or you have specific questions you'd like to ask me. Just bear in mind that I have computer access only at work (M-F, 9-5) and I receive the list in digest form the day after the messages are posted. Oh, I almost forgot to mention the URL for LC's databases: Http://lcweb.loc.gov/catalog/ Then use the Word Search and the Advanced Search within it. Hope this helps! Jean Thompson Coordinator of Technical Services and Cataloging Librarian St. Lawrence University Owen D. Young Library Canton, NY 13617 (315) 229-5834 (315) 229-5729 (fax) jtho@ccmaillink.stlawu.edu P.O. Box 107 Canton, NY 13617-0107 (315) 386-1815 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:06:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: rates + "cutesy logos" In-Reply-To: <199906301006.rnk92r.4me.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> At 08:30 AM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote: >the logo I use is mid-19th century (and I'm sort of an antiquarian), I went sort of the same route. I wanted somthing that illustrated indexing as a blend of traditional skills and modern technology. I found a piece of clipart with a medieval scribe at a desk in a library. I had a graphic artist remove the desk and substitute a PC. (Sorry I can't point you to a picture.) Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:44:47 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Official Names of Companies Dear Graf, I have to say that, regarding names, I do look up first names (as per your Einstein example). If I'm unable to find the first name or if there is confusion between names (i.e. multiple "Smiths" or "Jones") then I'll make a list for the editor and flag the issues for him or her. Using company names as in the text is one thing, but names listed in the index should be complete and I do consider that to be my job. Best, Sylvia Coates Debra Graf wrote: > Well there's a point from Keith! I thought it was my job as an indexer to > seek out the full name of the company, just as I would seek out a person's > full name. An example would be "Einstein" (who is listed in this book). He > is listed as just "Einstein", but I have listed him in the index as > "Einstein, Albert." > > What do others think? > > And, thanks, Karen for the "Hoovers" suggestion, and Cindy for the Corporate > Information site. Very helpful. > > Thanks, > > Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:51:59 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Arabic names With all due respect, what is typical use within one country might not be proper usage in another. My experience with scholarly presses in the U.S. is that Brian Peck is correct and that the name would be indexed under J (i.e. al-Jamel, Muhammad Hamid). Another example of why it's important to consider your audience and the context in which the index will be used. Ling is no doubt citing correct usage within Moslem countries while Brian is correct about how this name would be indexed in the U.S. for a scholarly text. Best, Sylvia Coates (whose maiden name is alphabetized under H in her father's native country but under D in the U.S.) Ling Heang wrote: > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > >1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- > >2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) > > I was brought up in an Islamic country and (1) & (2) would not be the = > way it's being indexed.=20 > > 'Muhammad Hamid' is the first name and 'al-Jamal' is the name of = > Muhammad Hamid's father. I hope it makes sense as muslims don't have = > surnames.=20 > > Thus, muslim name should be indexed as it appeared - 'Muhammad Hamid = > al-Jamal'. (not sure what the editor will comment about that) However, = > to conform to the "English" indexing style, (2) is more appropriate. > > Ling Heang > > Email: HEANGSL@bigfoot.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paula C. Durbin-Westby [SMTP:dwindex@LOUISA.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 6:39 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Arabic names > > Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways = > to > alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- . > > 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al- > 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J) > > Is one of these really the best way? I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting = > and > for appearance in the index ms. I'm indexing a book for which I've been > sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses > method #2. In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as = > Jamal > in the text. 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RgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAC+A > CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAMIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAA > AAAAAwAygAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeAEGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA > AAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBCgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAA > AB4AQ4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTog > AAAAAAMADTT9NwAA/fY= > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC348.52056720-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:55:22 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Dear Debra not Dear Graf Dear Debra (not Dear Graf), I'm sorry about my former salutation! That was typing too quickly and not paying attention. I'm sorry if that appeared to be rude, it was a big boo boo! Best, Sylvia Coates Sylvia Coates wrote: > Dear Graf, > > I have to say that, regarding names, I do look up first names (as per your > Einstein example). If I'm unable to find the first name or if there is confusion > between names (i.e. multiple "Smiths" or "Jones") then I'll make a list for the > editor and flag the issues for him or her. > > Using company names as in the text is one thing, but names listed in the index > should be complete and I do consider that to be my job. > > Best, > Sylvia Coates > > Debra Graf wrote: > > > Well there's a point from Keith! I thought it was my job as an indexer to > > seek out the full name of the company, just as I would seek out a person's > > full name. An example would be "Einstein" (who is listed in this book). He > > is listed as just "Einstein", but I have listed him in the index as > > "Einstein, Albert." > > > > What do others think? > > > > And, thanks, Karen for the "Hoovers" suggestion, and Cindy for the Corporate > > Information site. Very helpful. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:14:38 -0800 Reply-To: broccoli@briefcase.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Broccoli Subject: Re: Web Indexing PDF Documents Karen: Why don't you just create an index as a pdf file using Acrobat, and link all of the entries to the individual pdf pgs? -Broccoli -----Original Message----- From: Karen Powers Sent: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:45:35 -0500 To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: Web Indexing PDF Documents Hi! I need to know what tool to use to create a Web index to go over about 30 PDF documents. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks! Karen _______________________________________________________ Get Visto! Groups, event calendars, email, and more... Check it out @ http://www.visto.com/info