Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9907B"

=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:04:43 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ilana Kingsley <inewby@BERYL.ILS.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      Mao Zedong & Chinese Revolution experts
In-Reply-To:  <199907080411.AAA11453@beryl.ils.unc.edu>

Hi all,

Is there anyone out there who is extremely knowledgeable about Mao & the
Chinese Revolution? I'm indexing a 800 page manuscript and would like to
get a clearer idea of some of the entries I'm including.  Please respond
off-list to inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu and I will fill you in on my
questions.  Thanks.

--Ilana



**************************************************************************
Ilana Kingsley
http://www.indexpup.com
inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu // indexpup@indexpup.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:49:54 +1000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ralph REID <intohistory@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>

unsubcribe
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:12:20 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      One of those days

Yesterday was one.

I'm up to my eyeballs with three books in the works when I got a call from
a prospective new client. He has a 1,300 page computer book that has
already gone to the printer but needs an index.  For some reason, his
regular indexer has been unavailable, but has indexed previous versions of
this book in 3-4 days and could I do the same.  I explained as best I could
that 1,300 pages in 3-4 days was not routine and that under normal
circumstances I would schedule about 100 pages per day, or about two weeks.
 I told him to check his blueline date and get back to me, but I haven't
heard anything yet.  He wanted me to start tomorrow.

Then I got a call about a book I had done about two months ago that was
just now going to press.  The client was *very* unhappy that the index was
"way too long" at 14 pages for a 358 page book and they wanted no more than
6 pages.  (NOW they tell me.)  They complained that the index was "padded"
with secondary entries that also appeared as main entries and they didn't
see the need to take up twice the space.

Today I'm considering a new career in the food service industry.

Dick "Do you want fries with that?" Evans
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:33:43 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Firstname Lastname <Mkgwrites@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of those days

I can guess why that guy's regular indexer is unavailable.

Kathy Galvin
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Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:52:46 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "<Bill Graham>" <Bill.Graham@GSBSC.GENSIG.COM>
Subject:      STC meeting

     Indexers

     The Suncoast chapter of the STC will have a meeting on Thursday
     evening, November 4, 1999. Our aim is to invite four specialist to
     speak for ten minutes each. I pushed for an indexer. Now I have to
     find out if there will be an indexer in Tampa, say around November 4,
     who can provide ten minutes worth of insights to us. Am I asking the
     impossible?

     Also, now is a great time to gather information for upcoming events. I
     need details about indexing events that will take place from late
     October, 1999 to late February, 2000. The events will appear in the
     next issue of the A to Z Newsletter, which is produced by the indexing
     SIG of the STC.

     Thanks for your help. Have a great day.

     Bill Graham

     P.S. I wish to thank those who helped me with my damper question
     yesterday.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:04:47 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      Re: One of those days
In-Reply-To:  <93144056601@voyager.together.net>

Dick,

I'm with ya.

Rachel (Do you want paper or plastic?) Rice

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 07:28:06 -0700
Reply-To:     indexer@ibm.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Sherry L. Smith" <indexer@IBM.NET>
Subject:      index encoding options

I have a question about encoding options for indexes sent via e-mail.

I have been using UUCode to preserve formatting in my indexes. All has gone
well.

Recently I had a new client who was not able to open these files so I sent
the index as a zipped file. One of my delightful discoveries about winzip
program was the ease of use.

But, I still have a question. Does the winzip program preserve formatting
as well as the UUCode program? Have any of you experienced problems with
it?

Thank you and thank you for providing the WinZip information in the past.
It made life much easier when the client said--this file won't open like I
thought it would.

Sherry

Sherry L Smith
INDEXING SERVICES
63505 Bridle Lane
Bend, OR 97701
541 382 6414  (voice & fax)
indexer@ibm.net

President of Pacific Northwest Chapter/American Society of Indexers
1999-2000
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:57:40 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject:      Re: One of those days

At 09:12 AM 7/8/99 -0400, Richard Evans wrote:
>Yesterday was one.
>
<snip>
>
>Then I got a call about a book I had done about two months ago that was
>just now going to press.  The client was *very* unhappy that the index was
>"way too long" at 14 pages for a 358 page book and they wanted no more than
>6 pages.  (NOW they tell me.)  They complained that the index was "padded"
>with secondary entries that also appeared as main entries and they didn't
>see the need to take up twice the space.
>
>Today I'm considering a new career in the food service industry.
>
>Dick "Do you want fries with that?" Evans

Hi Dick and all,

Boy, oh boy, been there, done that. The worst was this law professor who
wanted every ibid and op cit also indexed and was still not happy with the
index. He completely took out the subject index and the book ended up with
proper names and a table of cases. And it wasn't really a law book in the
purest sense! Needless to say, now if anyone says "law book," I run as far
as I can in the opposite direction. I've got another indexing disaster story
in this vein, but it bothers me so much to tell that I will refrain from
subjecting myself and all of you to that story (my box of kleenex is in the
other room, etc.).

Indexing is often a thankless job for us, the faceless people. Afterall, we
rarely get acknowledged in the Acknowledgements--even the author's dog or
cat gets more press there than we do! Usually you only get feedback when the
client is totally ecstatic about your work or when you think maybe they
might put out a contract on you (and I don't mean an indexing contract!).

When this sort of thing happens, I keep reminding myself that of the many
indexes that I have done, there have only been a few cases like this, where
the author rags about the index.

Even so, I sometimes fantasize about leaving indexing and starting a
restaurant. In a way, that would actually be more stressful than indexing,
because everytime you send out a plate, that's like having a deadline. And
then there are the food critics and restaurant critics and irate customers
and lazy staff and sick staff and uncaring food distributors...so by the
time I work my way through this litany, I think indexing looks pretty good
again! On the other hand, the food service industry gets a bad rap because
most people think that anybody working there is doing so because they either
can't do anything else or they are on their way to something more glamorous.
The truth is that as fewer and fewer people cook at home, it may well be
that folks with cooking skills will end up being as scarce as truffles, and
we will have to pay for food as if it were ladened with truffles and saffron
and Beluga caviar (three of the most expensive food products out there and
not usually combined together!).

So maybe we should all quit indexing and become chefs??!!

Cynthia



*****************************************

Cynthia D. Bertelsen
Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services
Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing
cbertel@usit.net
Web page:  http://www.usit.com/cbertel/

"When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no
literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no
social harmony." --Careme
******************************************
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Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:51:58 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Sullivan, John" <John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM>
Subject:      Re: index encoding options

I think Winzip can UUencode files as well, can't it?

John Sullivan

        Sherry wrote:

        Does the winzip program preserve formatting as well as the UUCode
program? Have any of you experienced problems with
        it?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:16:11 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of those days

Perhaps yesterday was an especially inauspicious day for indexers. My
horoscope sounded harmless enough in the morning, but:

I had a run-in with an author (after I'd bent over backwards all weekend to
accommodate her, apparently to no avail, since she still wasn't appeased by
yesterday).

It was a good day to hum: "Some days you're the Louisville Slugger, some days
you're the ball."

Or maybe: "Mama said there's be days like this."

Barbara (not quitting just because one first-time and high-strung author
gives me grief; but thanking my lucky stars it doesn't happen more often)
Cohen
Indianapolis, IN
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:31:20 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Daley <ADaley3521@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Project and time

Dear Sister/Fellow Indexers:

I, too, have had to supplement my indexing income.  In Sept. I will be
starting my second year at a local college teaching vocabulary and tutoring
students how to write, edit their papers or develop good study habits.  This
is a lot of fun and I get great satisfaction.

I am a distributor for wellness and stress reducing products.  A friend
loaned me some of the products and the discomfort I felt in my computing arm,
coming down my neck and shoulder, disappeared.   I was extremely pleased.

I also work one day a week at a designer's clothing store.  I have never done
retailing so this is a big switch for me.  I used to work in government
offices before. I volunteer for a local GED program, tutoring people to
enable them to get their high school equivalency diploma.  Indexing allows me
a lot of freedom, which I like.

Best,
Ann Daley
508-668-7239
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Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:32:59 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         JPerlman@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: One of those days

All,

Been sitting here quietly indexing at the speed of light, wondering why my
phone is so quiet.........

Now I know to thank my lucky stars.  No horror stories to tell.  No hassles
(at the moment).  Should be thankful for little things right now.

Just wanted to say that we're all OK.  We professional indexers send in many
many good indexes, which are used and appreciated, and we rarely hear about
them.  What we hear are the complaints and demands of the few.  As in the
restaurant business, and other service businesses, I'm sure.  Aggravating as
it is, we have to take it in stride.  It takes all kinds to make a world
..............

We do good!  Now .... let's all give ourselves a big Pat on the Back.  Dick,
hold the fries!   No career change!  ;-)

Janet Perlman
SOUTHWEST INDEXING
http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:33:18 +0100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Michael Tombs <Michael.Tombs@TESCO.NET>
Subject:      Advice Sought...and gratefully received

I'd like to thank all those who replied to my request for advice a few weeks
ago - both privately, and on-list. It was most helpful.

I would have written earlier, but it was only this morning that I heard that
the price I put in for the index had been agreed.

Many thanks,


Michael Tombs
Michael.Tombs@tesco.net



I
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Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:46:16 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Elliot Linzer <elinzer@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Fw: [CE-L] TOOLS: searchable data base software

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Audrey Dorsch <exchange@ICA.NET>
To: COPYEDITING-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:31:29 -0400
Subject: [CE-L] TOOLS: searchable data base software
Message-ID: <003a01bec8af$a616d9e0$1c8297d1@default>

I have the chance o work with a magazine in setting up an index of their
past editions on a searchable data base. The course I took on indexing
was
woefully inadequate on matters of software.

We don't want to have a special program written for our needs - there
must
be packages out there. But we do need the flexibility to structure the
fields the way we want them.

The idea is that someone using the publication for research would be able
to
look up a topic or writer, and get a list of article titles, issue
numbers
and page numbers. This index would be available through the web, but not
the
content itself.

Can any indexers on this list recommend a software package that might be
suitable?

Audrey Dorsch
Exchange Publishing
exchange@ica.net
T: 416-439-4320
F: 416-439-5089

** Archive URL: http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/copyediting-l.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:02:48 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Craig Brown <lastword@I1.NET>
Subject:      Re: One of those days

Dick, you can pass that prospective new client along to me if you like.
Tell him I will turn the index around in less than two days and will only
charge him $1 per page.  You may also tell him I have most of the entries
chosen already, e.g.:

computer something-or-another, 1-1300

Remember your maxim:  "Quality, Speed, Low Cost: Choose Two."

Cheers,
Craig

The Last Word
Indexing Services
(314) 352-9094
lastword@i1.net
www.i1.net/~lastword
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:40:21 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Karen Lane <klane@KLANE.COM>
Subject:      Re: index encoding options

Sherry wrote --


>But, I still have a question. Does the winzip program preserve formatting
>as well as the UUCode program? Have any of you experienced problems with
>it?

WinZip keeps everything. The unzipped file should be exactly what the
pre-zipped file was -- no change at all. I use it regularly, even for
quite complex file combinations, and have never had a problem of any
kind.

Karen Lane
klane@klane.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:42:58 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Nina Forrest <ninaf@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of those days - with a twist

------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC92E.D4A033E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've been reading the list for quite awhile and am finally trying to get =
my indexing business off the ground. It's been a real treat to find out =
how helpful, knowledgable and quick to respond you folks are. And now I =
can add to that list your collective senses of humor.

I've been spending the last three months or so cold calling publishers, =
sending letters, following-up on the letters, and trying to put a =
positive face on the fact that I had done indexing in house for a long =
time (and only on computer books), but have not done any indexes as a =
freelancer. Whew! Some interest expressed, but nothing concrete so far. =
So at this point, I would love to be in the position of having "one of =
those days".=20

As Roseann, Roseannadanna's (sp?) grandmother used to say "If it's not =
one thing, it's another".

Nina, trying to be philosophical, Forrest
Looking Up Indexing Service
e-mail: ninaf@mindspring.com



-----Original Message-----
From:   Richard Evans [SMTP:infodex@MINDSPRING.COM]
Sent:   Thursday, July 08, 1999 9:12 AM
To:     Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
Subject:        One of those days

Yesterday was one.

I'm up to my eyeballs with three books in the works when I got a call =
from
a prospective new client. He has a 1,300 page computer book that has
already gone to the printer but needs an index.  For some reason, his
regular indexer has been unavailable, but has indexed previous versions =
of
this book in 3-4 days and could I do the same.  I explained as best I =
could
that 1,300 pages in 3-4 days was not routine and that under normal
circumstances I would schedule about 100 pages per day, or about two =
weeks.
 I told him to check his blueline date and get back to me, but I haven't
heard anything yet.  He wanted me to start tomorrow.

Then I got a call about a book I had done about two months ago that was
just now going to press.  The client was *very* unhappy that the index =
was
"way too long" at 14 pages for a 358 page book and they wanted no more =
than
6 pages.  (NOW they tell me.)  They complained that the index was =
"padded"
with secondary entries that also appeared as main entries and they =
didn't
see the need to take up twice the space.

Today I'm considering a new career in the food service industry.

Dick "Do you want fries with that?" Evans

------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC92E.D4A033E0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC92E.D4A033E0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:57:55 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         ROBJRICH@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: One of Those Days

All -

Well, you have touched a nerve!

After reading Dick Evans' "Will you have fries with that?" and Rachel Rice's
"Paper or plastic?", I rooted around in old files and found a note (rant)
that I had sent to a favorite author a while back.  This author really is a
wonderful person, and I hold him in very high regard.   But the book was, let
us say, in serous disarray. Packagers had changed.  Production editors had
changed.  The proofs were morphing before my eyes.  Dates had slipped and
slipped again.  Many e-mails discussing errata had been exchanged. I was at
the absolute elastic limit of my professional reticence and cool.

I suppose that the stars were in in some diabolic juxtaposition (sometimes
the fault DOES lie in our stars, Mr. Shakespeare!), but one day I simply lost
it and sent this poor fellow, who was at least as much put-upon as was I, a
long communication outlining in detail the full breadth and depth of my
frustration.   And then I added the final coup, a cry of outrage that I had
wanted to say to an author, to any author, to ALL authors, for years.

I said (with some editorial tweaking):

"And what really irritates me is that after all of this, there will be two
pages of effusive "Thank You's" and politically-correct acknowledgements to
every colleague, to every person whom an author thinks it prudent to mention,
to every grad student with whom he had a five-minute conversation over a
latte in the faculty lounge, to every person at the publisher or packager who
picked up a page, to every "Gal Friday" who got anybody a cup of coffee, to
parents, wives, children and the family dog, and never, ever, mention the
damned indexer who beat his/her brains out for two months trying to create a
rational index to the book.  Do you all really think that indexes are written
by illiterate high-school dropouts, or by little elves and trolls who just
love to work anonymously in caves?  Don't you think professional recognition
is important to us? Or do you think that indexers are not professionals -
that they are just a cut above clerk-typists?   Bah! "

After I sent it I experienced the typical morning-after syndrome - a mixture
of satisfaction and chagrin.  "That felt good!" blended with "MiGod, did I
really do THAT?"    It wasn't too smart (in fact, pretty dumb) but in the
moment it was very satisfying!  Of course, we can get into serious trouble
focusing on the satisfactions of the moment....

"So", you ask, "what happened then?"  Well, the mouse roared, the world kept
turning, and this really great guy just smiled and said, essentially,
"Hmnnn...  Yeah, I guess you've got a point there...."

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:25:24 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ilana Kingsley <inewby@BERYL.ILS.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      More Mao

My offline reponses suggested I post to the list, so here it goes....

Here's the deal.  There's an 100 page intro which is pretty straight
forward to index.  The rest of the 700 pages are telegrams, poetry,
interviews, etc. from/with Mao and other army commanders.  This is one
area where I am getting stuck. For example, at first I thought it may be
important to the reader to see who received the telegram and what the
subject is.  So, I started doing the following:

Lin Biao
  biography of, xxx
  telegrams to (regarding)
     attacks on
       Guanshang & Shuitou, xxx-xxx
       Hebei, xxx
     troops
       movement of, xxx
       provisions, xxx
  victories of, xxx
As you can see, this is not very effective because I'm using 4 heading
levels!  So, I then broke this up:

Lin Biao
  biography of, xxx
  victories of, xxx
Lin Biao, telegrams to (regarding)
   attacks on
     Guanshang & Shuitou, xxx
     Hebei, xxx
   troops
     movement of, xxx
     provisions, xxx

Now I'm thinking--ditch the telegrams to....but is this important? I"m not
sure anymore. Half of the book is "telegrams to", and often, each telegram
is sent to many commanders at once.

The other dilemma is, in the introduction the editor states that during
Mao's involvement with the Jiangxi Soviet Republic there are many strings
of names and geographic places that are not relevant to the reader.
Hmmmmm?  Do I believe this? I've been indexing almost every place that is
mentioned....but this is taking a long time to do...and will this give
added value to the reader.

Any suggestions will be helpful! Thanks.

--Ilana Kingsley
inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 10:31:56 PDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         s bodell <bodells@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      new and looking for advice

Hello all,

I am trying to start my freelance indexing business.  I've been sending out
resumes/letters to various university presses.  I address them to the
"managing editor".

I'm looking for some advice and/or direction.  Am I taking the right
approach.  Or is it just a waste of time to send out "cold" letters?  I
don't have contacts in the publishing industry and haven't built any sort of
network with other indexers.  (I'm starting now).

I'm not discouraged yet.  I really want to do indexing full-time.  Any
advice or encouragement will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for listening.

Sheila Bodell
bodells@hotmail.com


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:26:17 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sonsie Conroy <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice

At 10:31 AM 7/8/1999 PDT, s bodell wrote:

>I am trying to start my freelance indexing business.  I've been sending out
>resumes/letters to various university presses.  I address them to the
>"managing editor".

The better, but time-consuming, way is to go to the library and sit down
with Literary Market Place (AKA LMP) and get the actual NAMES of people,
rather than addressing letters to the generic title. Managing Editor is not
who you usually want to send to, anyway. Try Production Manager (or
individual production editors, if listed in the Names & Numbers section).

>I'm looking for some advice and/or direction.  Am I taking the right
>approach.  Or is it just a waste of time to send out "cold" letters?  I
>don't have contacts in the publishing industry and haven't built any sort of
>network with other indexers.  (I'm starting now).

Yes, many of us either got our start or built our clientele by patiently
sending out batches of these letters, with samples and other marketing
materials, and then FOLLOWING UP with personal phone calls to those people
we've written to. Keep at it. Any direct mail pro will tell you that even a
2% response is very good! That means you might hope to get 2 new clients for
every 100 letters you send. You can beat that number by quite a bit if you
are patient (sometimes it is, literally, years before you get that call from
somebody who stashed your resume in their file) and if you follow up with
telephone contact...and with more samples, etc., when warranted.

Good luck!

        Sonsie
        sconroy@slonet.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:56:41 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Mary Mortensen <MaryMort@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice

This is just based on my experience.  I've heard the title 'managing editor'
used at a number of university presses for the person in charge of book
production, and therefore the right person to address your letters to.

I agree with Sonsie that an actual name is better, though.  I called each
press to find out, and this also gave me a feeling of whether they hired
indexers themselves or simply kept a list for their authors to call (a common
practice among university presses in the U.S.), or whether they didn't even
want to see my resume.

I would also recommend broadening your marketing to other types of
publishers.  I know that there are full-time freelancers who only work for
university presses, but I prefer the variety of work - less difficult work,
frankly - that comes from publishers of trade books and textbooks.  But,
that's my preference and may not be yours.

Good luck!
Mary
--
*  Mary Mortensen                         *  marymort@aol.com
*  Indexing services                        *  Lawrence, Kansas
*  Publicity Committee Chair,          *  785-841-3631
*  American Society of Indexers
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:21:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice

Sonsie is right--names are very important, because it shows that you have
made some effort to learn something about the press and its focus.

LMP is also online at http://lmp.bookwire.com--as of July 1 the subscription
fee also includes access to International Literary Market Place.

Another source (print) for university press information is the American
University Presses Directory, published annually.

Cynthia


At 12:26 PM 7/8/99 -0700, Sonsie Conroy wrote:
>At 10:31 AM 7/8/1999 PDT, s bodell wrote:
>
>>I am trying to start my freelance indexing business.  I've been sending out
>>resumes/letters to various university presses.  I address them to the
>>"managing editor".
>
>The better, but time-consuming, way is to go to the library and sit down
>with Literary Market Place (AKA LMP) and get the actual NAMES of people,
>rather than addressing letters to the generic title. Managing Editor is not
>who you usually want to send to, anyway. Try Production Manager (or
>individual production editors, if listed in the Names & Numbers section).
>

*****************************************

Cynthia D. Bertelsen
Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services
Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing
cbertel@usit.net
Web page:  http://www.usit.com/cbertel/

"When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no
literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no
social harmony." --Careme
******************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:49:29 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Debra Lindblom <ALINDBLOM@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice

In a message dated 7/8/99 12:35:04 PM EST, bodells@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<<
 I am trying to start my freelance indexing business.  I've been sending out
 resumes/letters to various university presses.  I address them to the
 "managing editor". >>


I would encourage you to contact the presses and get the name of an
individual.
I think it is more effective to send resume to a specific person. Good luck.

Debbie
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 15:42:37 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sonsie Conroy <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice

At 04:21 PM 7/8/1999 -0400, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote:

>LMP is also online at http://lmp.bookwire.com--as of July 1 the subscription
>fee also includes access to International Literary Market Place.

Cynthia, can we access LMP online to gather names, as we used to have to do
in the library? This would be a godsend! I don't do it much, but sometimes I
have the need, and the book is so popular that it's sometimes hard to get my
hands on it for any length of time.

        Sonsie
        sconroy@slonet.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:01:07 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Erin Pierce <piercee@ALPHACLP.CLPGH.ORG>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice
In-Reply-To:  <199907082245.SAA20642@alphaclp.clpgh.org>

Yes - you must be a subscriber but subscription is free....


On Thu, 8 Jul
1999, Sonsie Conroy wrote:

> At 04:21 PM 7/8/1999 -0400, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote:
>
> >LMP is also online at http://lmp.bookwire.com--as of July 1 the subscription
> >fee also includes access to International Literary Market Place.
>
> Cynthia, can we access LMP online to gather names, as we used to have to do
> in the library? This would be a godsend! I don't do it much, but sometimes I
> have the need, and the book is so popular that it's sometimes hard to get my
> hands on it for any length of time.
>
>         Sonsie
>         sconroy@slonet.org
>

Erin Pierce
Staff Librarian
Allegheny Regional Branch
Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh
piercee@alphaclp.clpgh.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:13:00 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dawn Spencer <Indexlady@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Online LMP

In a message dated 07/08/99 07:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
piercee@ALPHACLP.CLPGH.ORG writes:
<< Yes - you must be a subscriber but subscription is free....

REGISTRATION is free, and you can do a lot with REGISTRATION. However, a
SUBSCRIPTION is $389 a year.

With REGISTRATION, you can do a simple search and find publishers with a
certain specialty and their physical address. Complete information (such as
name, telephone numbers) are reserved for SUBSCRIPTION.

Still, it alleviates a lot of searching at the library. You can simply go in
with your list of desired publishers and get the information.

Dawn Spencer
Techni-Dexes
indexlady@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/indexlady/
---------------
Coordinator of the Tennessee Regional Group
    of the American Society of Indexers
    tennwords@aol.com
    http://members.aol.com/tennwords/
    http://www.asindexing.org/
---------------
Author of the Indexing topic at Suite 101
     http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/indexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:31:46 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice

Subscription is NOT free--it costs $389 to access the database that gives
you the individual names and subjects handled by each press and other
information not available nonsubscribers, but yes, you can examine company
names w/o a subscription. You have to register first and that gives you
access to some very useful information. Try it.

Cynthia


At 07:01 PM 7/8/99 -0400, Erin Pierce wrote:
>Yes - you must be a subscriber but subscription is free....
>
>
>On Thu, 8 Jul
>1999, Sonsie Conroy wrote:
>
>> At 04:21 PM 7/8/1999 -0400, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote:
>>
>> >LMP is also online at http://lmp.bookwire.com--as of July 1 the subscription
>> >fee also includes access to International Literary Market Place.
>>
>> Cynthia, can we access LMP online to gather names, as we used to have to do
>> in the library? This would be a godsend! I don't do it much, but sometimes I
>> have the need, and the book is so popular that it's sometimes hard to get my
>> hands on it for any length of time.
>>
>>         Sonsie
>>         sconroy@slonet.org
>>
>
>Erin Pierce
>Staff Librarian
>Allegheny Regional Branch
>Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh
>piercee@alphaclp.clpgh.org
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 16:36:16 -0700
Reply-To:     Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Bonny McLaughlin <Bonny.McLaughlin@CGU.EDU>
Organization: cgs.edu
Subject:      ASI SoCal Aug 7 Meeting

The American Society of Indexers
Southern California Chapter
invites you to...

"INDEXING ELECTRONIC MEDIA"

by Seth Maislin

August 7, 1999
11:00 AM to 4:00 PM
Long Beach State University Library
Faculty Development Center, 5th Floor
(See http://www.csulb.edu/Images/campus-map.gif)

Seth Maislin is sole proprietor of Focus Information Services and senior

indexer at O'Reilly & Associates. He provides consulting and teaching
services in indexing and online information architecture to public and
private audiences, presents workshops and demonstrations regularly at
conferences, and indexes books and web documents. He has contributed to
the newsletters of the Society for Technical Communication (STC), the
American Society of Indexers (ASI), and the Freelance Editorial
Association. Seth is an elected director of ASI and chairs its Online
Strategies Committee. He is webmaster for STC's Indexing SIG and on the
Boston STC Council. His largest project to date includes indexing all
online content for America Online.

The fundamental differences between indexing and online information
design are...
Well, there aren't any! Not if you're willing to break a few rules.
Every hyper-
text document is an index, an ordered set of paths to more information.
In this
presentation, you'll bend your indexing practices to accommodate the
wholly
different medium of the web. We'll meet the challenges of indexing
without
book pages for an unknown audience and reevaluate the value of
alphabetizing,
page ranges, and cross references. With real-life web sites as examples,

we'll
sketch an intranet structure and stumble through the single-sourcing
myth in an
effort to find guidelines that work. Let's reintroduce ourselves to
indexing theory
in the framework of the World Wide Web.


The price of this event is $40 for ASI members ($45 for nonmembers).
Lunch will be included.

Please send the reservation form below to Joy Thomas at 2169 Tulane
Ave.,
Long Beach, CA 90815-2949


****************************************************************************

REGISTRATION FORM FOR  "INDEXING ELECTRONIC MEDIA"
AUGUST 7,  1999
11:00 TO 4:00
LONG BEACH STATE UNIVERSITY LIBRARY

Name___________________________________________

Mailing Address ______________________________________________

____________________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________

Phone____________________  e-mail ____________________________

Check enclosed for $40 ___ (ASI member)    $45 ___ (nonmember)

For a campus map and directions to the campus, see:
http://www.csulb.edu/Images/campus-map.gif

Please send this form and your check, made out to ASI,  by July 31st to:

Joy Thomas
2169 Tulane Ave.
Long Beach, CA 90815-2949
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:05:59 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Firstname Lastname <Mkgwrites@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Digest Version?

Is there a way to get a digested version of the list? I've looked through all
the bumph and can't find it, if there is one.

Kathy Galvin
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:18:03 -0700
Reply-To:     nkoenig <nkoenig@gateway.net>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         nkoenig <nkoenig@GATEWAY.NET>
Subject:      Re: One of Those Days

This is a fine rant, but I must object that a preface is
not an acknowledgement of sincerely felt professional
indebtedness.  It is schmooze directed at those with
whom the author wants to continue a rewarding
relationship.   Hence, one must praise the patience
of one's spousal unit, even if no patience was in fact
shown during the five miserable years the book
monopolized the author's attention.  To do otherwise
would be to invite severe retaliation.  Since even the
indexer's name may be unknown, an indexer may be quite
low in the schmooze hierarchy, especially if the author
never intends to write another book.

Moreover, two categories of authors come to mind.

One group believes that any reader intellectually equipped
to understand the masterpiece at hand will read the
book from cover to cover, lingering at length over each mellifluous
phrase.  The entire work will then be committed to memory so
that the precious wisdom that drips from each word will
never be lost.  Clearly, for such readers an index is superfluous.

The other group suspects that some readers will use an index
as a substitute for reading the text.  In doing so, they will be
depriving themselves of far too much that the text has to offer.
These authors may be the ones who would like every word
indexed, thereby turning the index into a somewhat abbreviated
version of the text.   In any case, indexers are clearly the allies of
those intellectual slackers who will not, or cannot, give the text
the attention it deserves.

So, for these two groups of authors, an index is either superfluous
or a crutch for the intellectually undisciplined.  No wonder indexers
are rarely mentioned in acknowledgements.

<snip>


And then I added the final coup, a cry of outrage that I had
>wanted to say to an author, to any author, to ALL authors, for years.
>
>I said (with some editorial tweaking):
>
>"And what really irritates me is that after all of this, there will be two
>pages of effusive "Thank You's" and politically-correct acknowledgements to
>every colleague, to every person whom an author thinks it prudent to
mention,
>to every grad student with whom he had a five-minute conversation over a
>latte in the faculty lounge, to every person at the publisher or packager
who
>picked up a page, to every "Gal Friday" who got anybody a cup of coffee, to
>parents, wives, children and the family dog, and never, ever, mention the
>damned indexer who beat his/her brains out for two months trying to create
a
>rational index to the book.  Do you all really think that indexes are
written
>by illiterate high-school dropouts, or by little elves and trolls who just
>love to work anonymously in caves?  Don't you think professional
recognition
>is important to us? Or do you think that indexers are not professionals -
>that they are just a cut above clerk-typists?   Bah! "
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:20:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Linda Jenkins <ljenkins@IDIRECT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Digest Version?

I've been wondering the same thing myself.  I found something in the
instructions that looked like a way to specify digest, but when I tried it
it didn't work.  Does anyone out there know?


Linda Jenkins
Ottawa, Ontario


-----Original Message-----
From: Firstname Lastname <Mkgwrites@AOL.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Date: July 8, 1999 8:07 PM
Subject: Digest Version?


>Is there a way to get a digested version of the list? I've looked through
all
>the bumph and can't find it, if there is one.
>
>Kathy Galvin
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 21:47:41 -0400
Reply-To:     contextcomm@worldnet.att.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Anne Day <contextcomm@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: searchable data base software

Audrey and all,

My understanding is that FileMaker Pro can be used to publish databases
"live" on the web as you describe. I do use FMPro as a tool for periodical
indexing, but for my project, the database itself isn't accessible over the
web; instead, I export the data from FMPro using a script which generates
the HTML format I need. The resulting online index is a back-of-book style
document consisting of links to the full-text articles, not a searchable
database interface (although I think we'll do it that way eventually).

Anyway, the FileMaker Pro website might be able to answer some of your
questions about the program's capabilities: http://www.claris.com.

Good luck,
Anne
--
Anne Day, Indexer
Specializing in Environmental and Plant Science topics
ConTEXT Communications
Holland, Pennsylvania
contextcomm@worldnet.att.net


Elliot Linzer wrote:

> --------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Audrey Dorsch <exchange@ICA.NET>
> To: COPYEDITING-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:31:29 -0400
> Subject: [CE-L] TOOLS: searchable data base software
> Message-ID: <003a01bec8af$a616d9e0$1c8297d1@default>
>
> I have the chance o work with a magazine in setting up an index of their
> past editions on a searchable data base. The course I took on indexing
> was
> woefully inadequate on matters of software.
>
> We don't want to have a special program written for our needs - there
> must
> be packages out there. But we do need the flexibility to structure the
> fields the way we want them.
>
> The idea is that someone using the publication for research would be able
> to
> look up a topic or writer, and get a list of article titles, issue
> numbers
> and page numbers. This index would be available through the web, but not
> the
> content itself.
>
> Can any indexers on this list recommend a software package that might be
> suitable?
>
> Audrey Dorsch
> Exchange Publishing
> exchange@ica.net
> T: 416-439-4320
> F: 416-439-5089
>
> ** Archive URL: http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/copyediting-l.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:25:16 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Anita York <ayork@OLYPEN.COM>

----unsubscribe
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:49:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Nina Forrest <ninaf@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: new and looking for advice

------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC983.6E488DE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Another source of publishers is the Writer's Market book for $25.00. You =
can get it for that price w/o CD ROM. It is $45 or so w/ CD. I think a =
new one is coming out in Sept.

Nina Forrest
Looking Up Indexing Service
e-mail: ninaf@mindspring.com

-----Original Message-----
From:   Cynthia Bertelsen [SMTP:cbertel@USIT.NET]
Sent:   Thursday, July 08, 1999 4:21 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
Subject:        Re: new and looking for advice

Sonsie is right--names are very important, because it shows that you =
have
made some effort to learn something about the press and its focus.

LMP is also online at http://lmp.bookwire.com--as of July 1 the =
subscription
fee also includes access to International Literary Market Place.

Another source (print) for university press information is the American
University Presses Directory, published annually.

Cynthia



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------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC983.6E488DE0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:33:47 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "J. Naomi Linzer" <jnlinzer@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Digest Version?
In-Reply-To:  <199907090119.SAA03699@neti.saber.net>

Sure.

Send the following message to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu

set index-l digest

put nothing else in the body of the message and leave the subject line
blank.  If/when you want to return to individual messages send the message:

set index-l nodigest


*****************************************************************************J.
J. Naomi Linzer
Indexing Services
POB 1341
Redway, CA  95560
(707) 923-4361
jnlinzer@saber.net
******************************************************************************
http://www.asindexing.org   <-- American Society of Indexers website.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 8 Jul 1999 20:33:56 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "J. Naomi Linzer" <jnlinzer@SABER.NET>
Subject:      unsubscribing
In-Reply-To:  <199907090229.TAA26443@neti.saber.net>

If it's only temporary:

Send a message to

LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU

with the following in the message part:

SET INDEX-L NOMAIL

If it's permanent, then

SIGNOFF INDEX-L

[Upper- or lowercase doesn't matter.]

Make sure that any automatic signatures you normally
use are turned off, since the listserver software won't
recognize them.

*****************************************************************************J.
J. Naomi Linzer
Indexing Services
POB 1341
Redway, CA  95560
(707) 923-4361
jnlinzer@saber.net
******************************************************************************
http://www.asindexing.org   <-- American Society of Indexers website.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:20:02 +1000
Reply-To:     diagonal@hermes.net.au
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne <diagonal@HERMES.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: [CE-L] TOOLS: searchable data base software
In-Reply-To:  <B0001128998@blue.hermes.net.au>

Audrey Dorsch wrote:


> The idea is that someone using the publication for research would be able
> to
> look up a topic or writer, and get a list of article titles, issue
> numbers
> and page numbers. This index would be available through the web, but not
> the
> content itself.
>
> Can any indexers on this list recommend a software package that might be
> suitable?

Have a look at ISYS - http://www.isys.com.au. I'm not sure if it's what you
want but that's the general area they work in.

Jon
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:31:23 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Sullivan, John" <John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of Those Days

nkoenig wrote:

<<So, for these two groups of authors, an index is either superfluous
or a crutch for the intellectually undisciplined.  No wonder indexers
are rarely mentioned in acknowledgements>>

I'm amazed at the contempt for authors that is often displayed on this list.


Several things to keep in mind:

*       Indexers are totally dependent on authors. No authors, no books to
index. Authors, on the other hand, are not totally dependent on indexers. A
professionally prepared index can improve a book, but it is not an absolute
necessity.

*       As an indexer, you're working either for the author or the
publisher. The author and the publisher, if they care at all about the
index, get to set the guidelines and requirements for the index. The indexer
gets to follow those guidelines and requirements; if he/she has grand
notions about how the index should be prepared, it's fine and dandy to make
recommendations; however, if those recommendations aren't accepted, that
doesn't mean that the author and publisher are ignoramuses (ignorami?).

*       If we want authors to have some respect for indexers, perhaps
indexers should have some respect for authors.

I can say no more.

John Sullivan




> -----Original Message-----
> From: nkoenig [SMTP:nkoenig@gateway.net]
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 8:18 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Re: One of Those Days
>
> This is a fine rant, but I must object that a preface is
> not an acknowledgement of sincerely felt professional
> indebtedness.  It is schmooze directed at those with
> whom the author wants to continue a rewarding
> relationship.   Hence, one must praise the patience
> of one's spousal unit, even if no patience was in fact
> shown during the five miserable years the book
> monopolized the author's attention.  To do otherwise
> would be to invite severe retaliation.  Since even the
> indexer's name may be unknown, an indexer may be quite
> low in the schmooze hierarchy, especially if the author
> never intends to write another book.
>
> Moreover, two categories of authors come to mind.
>
> One group believes that any reader intellectually equipped
> to understand the masterpiece at hand will read the
> book from cover to cover, lingering at length over each mellifluous
> phrase.  The entire work will then be committed to memory so
> that the precious wisdom that drips from each word will
> never be lost.  Clearly, for such readers an index is superfluous.
>
> The other group suspects that some readers will use an index
> as a substitute for reading the text.  In doing so, they will be
> depriving themselves of far too much that the text has to offer.
> These authors may be the ones who would like every word
> indexed, thereby turning the index into a somewhat abbreviated
> version of the text.   In any case, indexers are clearly the allies of
> those intellectual slackers who will not, or cannot, give the text
> the attention it deserves.
>
> So, for these two groups of authors, an index is either superfluous
> or a crutch for the intellectually undisciplined.  No wonder indexers
> are rarely mentioned in acknowledgements.
>
> <snip>
>
>
> And then I added the final coup, a cry of outrage that I had
> >wanted to say to an author, to any author, to ALL authors, for years.
> >
> >I said (with some editorial tweaking):
> >
> >"And what really irritates me is that after all of this, there will be
> two
> >pages of effusive "Thank You's" and politically-correct acknowledgements
> to
> >every colleague, to every person whom an author thinks it prudent to
> mention,
> >to every grad student with whom he had a five-minute conversation over a
> >latte in the faculty lounge, to every person at the publisher or packager
> who
> >picked up a page, to every "Gal Friday" who got anybody a cup of coffee,
> to
> >parents, wives, children and the family dog, and never, ever, mention the
> >damned indexer who beat his/her brains out for two months trying to
> create
> a
> >rational index to the book.  Do you all really think that indexes are
> written
> >by illiterate high-school dropouts, or by little elves and trolls who
> just
> >love to work anonymously in caves?  Don't you think professional
> recognition
> >is important to us? Or do you think that indexers are not professionals -
> >that they are just a cut above clerk-typists?   Bah! "
> >
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 08:42:52 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Sullivan, John" <John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM>
Subject:      sorry

My apologies for including several previous messages in my last email to the
group. Hey, what do you expect -- it's Friday!

John Sullivan
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 19:47:08 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Paul Kish <kishndx@MCN.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Online LMP
In-Reply-To:  <199907082314.QAA21738@mail.mcn.org>

My invoice for a year of online LMP says $219.75.

Hope you got your numbers right.

Paul
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:55:37 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject:      Re: Online LMP

Right now it says $389 on the site, although I did pay about the same that
you did. I got my subscription about a month ago and then on July 1,
according to an e-mail message from LMP, I also gained access to ILMP
without having to pay anymore.

Just reporting what the current price seems to be on the LMP site.

Cynthia


At 07:47 PM 7/9/99 -0700, Paul Kish wrote:
>My invoice for a year of online LMP says $219.75.
>
>Hope you got your numbers right.
>
>Paul
>
>

*****************************************

Cynthia D. Bertelsen
Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services
Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing
cbertel@usit.net
Web page:  http://www.usit.com/cbertel/

"When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no
literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no
social harmony." --Careme
******************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:01:02 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sharon Hughes <SHughes512@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: searchable databases online

Good morning,
   I'm not an expert, but from what Iv'e been able to learn about a project
I'm working on,  the major database programs can produce databases that are
searchable online.  One problem is that the database software has to sit on
the server.  Thats fine if its your server.  Then there are problems with
operating system compatibliity.  For example.  I know its may not be possible
to run ACCESS on a UNIX server.  It was created for MS servers.  You can
develop static report pages and produce HTML formated pages from database
packages .  Then create indexes to those reports.  Not the same thing but
useful for some purposes.
  I'm sure we've got some people in the group who have better answers.. Good
luck
                                         Sharon
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:02:18 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         ROBJRICH@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Contempt for Authors

All -

John Sullivan wrote:

>I'm amazed at the contempt for authors that is often displayed on this list.

>Several things to keep in mind:

>*   ...<snip>.... if he/she has grand notions about how the index should be
prepared, >it's fine and dandy to make recommendations; however, if those
recommendations >aren't accepted, that doesn't mean that the author and
publisher are ignoramuses >(ignorami?).

>* If we want authors to have some respect for indexers, perhaps indexers
should have some respect for authors.

>I can say no more.<.

He then appended to this message a posting by Nick Koenig and one by me that
evidently prompted this rather strong response.

And then, in a following posting, John had the grace to say:

>My apologies for including several previous messages in my last email to the
>group. Hey, what do you expect -- it's Friday! >

OK, John.  You've said more than enough.  I appreciate that Fridays can be
tough.  But there are a couple of things that I must say.

Why?  Well, first, because your message seems to me to be so inflammatory
that I fear it will automatically trigger a furious flurry of Index-L
polemics.  There apparently is an almost irresistible impulse toward
controversy that sometimes causes the starlings to rise in a flock and wheel
about making terrible cries of outrage until, exhausted, they return to the
roost and rebuild their strength for the next contretemps.  In this case that
reflex would, in my judgment, be entirely inappropriate and unwarranted.
And, second, because my original rant has been held up as an example of
gratuitous biting of the hand that feeds me.

So, Index-L, do not loose the dogs of war!  Hold back, please!  There is no
issue here!

First, I honestly believe that in the years I have subscribed to, and
contributed to, Index-L I have seen little (actually no) evidence of any
baseless disrespect to authors.  I believe that the historical record will
show that Index-L persons are, overwhelmingly, responsible and generous
people who maintain and display an astonishing composure and patience in a
very stressful profession.

Newbies and battle-scarred indexers alike are quite moderate in their
expressions, especially considering the overwhelming imbalance between their
responsibilities and their power to control their professional environment.
By which I mean that except for accepting or rejecting a given project, or
turning away from an especially difficult client, the frelance indexer has
little substantive control over a specific project once that project has
begun.  Schedules, format, arrival of proofs, text flow, errata, foliation,
cooperative exchanges with editors and authors, the opportunity to discuss
the index, the opportunity to make corrections and/or changes, all largely
are beyond the indexer's control  Suggestions often can be made, and indexing
surely is not an unmitigated and endless frustration, but we usually do not
control the dynamics of our projects.

On balance, I would judge that indexers (at least, those who make expression
on Index-L) are quite forbearing, professional and centered.

So I suggest that there is no pervasive disrespect shown to authors on
Index-L, and that before the starlings take wing we just pause and reflect
for a moment that this is a non-issue.  Let's not create a synthetic crusade;
there are enough real problems to occupy our creative outrage...

Second, I would point out that in my posting I said:

>This author really is a wonderful person, and I hold him in very high
regard... >,
<snip>
>... one day I simply lost it and sent this poor fellow, who was at least as
much put-upon as was I ... >
<snip>
>"So", you ask, "what happened then?"  Well, the mouse roared, the world kept
turning, and this really great guy just smiled and said, essentially,
"Hmnnn...  Yeah, I guess you've got a point there...."<

That hardly seems disrespectful to me....

Now, to put this in another perspective, I will say that my original rant had
to do, not with disrespect to authors, but to the casual dismissal and
evident disrespect authors customarily show to indexers.  Our contribution to
a given text might not be essential, as John Sullivan points out, but we do
work longer and harder, at least carefully read every line, provide much more
professional judgment, and make an infinitely more important creative
contribution to the value of the book, than many of the persons that are
celebrated in the Acknowledgments page.  And that imbalance, that casual
disregard of our contribution and our faithful labor is, to me, infuriating
and entirely disrespectful.

Nick Koenigs's posting was a bit of fluff that, in my view, reflected a
healthy cynicism and a fine way with words.  Like all satirical pieces he
overstated it, in the tradition of Jonathan Swift and Dave Barry (how's that
for opposite poles)?  But behind the slathering of sarcasm there is much
truth.  Authors, like office workers, political appointees and
congresspersons, and (alas) freelance indexers, usually are careful to know
which slices of bread to butter, and which derrieres to anoint.

So, to end this, I most earnestly ask Index-L persons not to take up arms for
or against the straw man of pervasive disrespect to authors.  I have seen no
evidence of this.  But I do believe, on the contrary,  that the professional
reality we all experience is one of pervasive disrespect to indexers.

Best wishes,

Bob Richardson
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:29:04 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         ROBJRICH@AOL.COM
Subject:      Cat Question (entirely non-indexing)

Cat experts -

Can somebody tell me if it is true that neutering a tom can cause serious
mdeical problems downstream, and possibly shorten the cat's life?  If so, can
anything be done about this?  The Hobson's choice here is that an un-neutered
tom housecat can make a shambles of your furniture/rugs, and will get into
fights if allowed out, etc.  But if neutering will hurt the cat (physically,
not the cat's libido), this seems to pose a dilemma.....

Please answer off-list.

Thanks.

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:46:41 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      cats

Hi Bob,

Far from harming your cat, his life will be much healthier and safer and
he'll be a much better pet. He will stop wanting to roam looking for girls,
and therefore will be less likely to get hit by a car or get lost, or
trapped in someone's garage or basement. He will also stop fighting other
toms for possession, and so will be less likely to get leukemia, feline
AIDS, and 4 other highly contagious and deadly diseases, to say nothing of
abcesses and other infections from fight wounds. He will also be less
likely to have kidney and other urological diseases, and he will also stop
marking his territory, which includes the insides of your house.

But even more important than all that combined, he will stop fathering
hundreds, maybe thousands of kittens that will be homeless, have short and
terribly hard lives, and who will also be unneutered and doing all of the
above, and facing all of the above. In all cases, and this is proven over
and over by research, veterinary literature, and simple common sense, and
not just my own very strong and utterly confident opinion, there is
absolutely no reason to have an unneutered cat, male or female, unless it
is to be used in a careful, responsible breeding program.

Please have your cat neutered. There is no excuse not to, and it is unkind
and irresponsible (no personal judgment there, just fact as proven by the
above research and the majority stance of the veterinary world and all
humane societies), not to.

Hope I've convinced you.

Rachel

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 12:52:36 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      RATS Re: cats
In-Reply-To:  <93153871901@voyager.together.net>

Oh man, sorry sorry. I used to have my subscription configured to reply to
sender, not to the list, just because of this very sort of mishap. I don't
know how it got switched back. I can't find the command to turn it back
again. Does anyone know it?

Sorry everyone. Sorry Bob.

Low-walking back to my corner.

Rae

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:46:13 -0400
Reply-To:     gpc@midmaine.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Goddard Davidson <gpc@MIDMAINE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fw: [CE-L] TOOLS: searchable data base software

Check out DB/Textworks - it has great searchability and has been used by
libraries and law forms for in house databases for years. It is produced by
Inmagic Inc. in Woburn, Mass.

Cathy Goddard

Elliot Linzer wrote:

> --------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Audrey Dorsch <exchange@ICA.NET>
> To: COPYEDITING-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:31:29 -0400
> Subject: [CE-L] TOOLS: searchable data base software
> Message-ID: <003a01bec8af$a616d9e0$1c8297d1@default>
>
> I have the chance o work with a magazine in setting up an index of their
> past editions on a searchable data base. The course I took on indexing
> was
> woefully inadequate on matters of software.
>
> We don't want to have a special program written for our needs - there
> must
> be packages out there. But we do need the flexibility to structure the
> fields the way we want them.
>
> The idea is that someone using the publication for research would be able
> to
> look up a topic or writer, and get a list of article titles, issue
> numbers
> and page numbers. This index would be available through the web, but not
> the
> content itself.
>
> Can any indexers on this list recommend a software package that might be
> suitable?
>
> Audrey Dorsch
> Exchange Publishing
> exchange@ica.net
> T: 416-439-4320
> F: 416-439-5089
>
> ** Archive URL: http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/copyediting-l.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:04:23 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

I have looked in Chicago and Mulvaney but can't find the answer. How do you
index:

Joseph Cardinal Bernardin

Is it

Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal

Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal or Cardinal)

Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph

Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago)

My vote is for the last one. Am I right?

Thanks in advance!

Rachel

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:20:14 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Patricia H. Gross" <phgross@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)
In-Reply-To:  <199907091808.OAA22766@mx06.erols.com>

>
>Is it
>
>Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal
>
>Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal or Cardinal)
>
>Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph
>
>Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago)
>
>My vote is for the last one. Am I right?
>

I'm working on a huge Jesuit studies book, and I am following a style that
would go with the last one (below are two of my entries. I think the first
would be ok in some formats. Number two would be what you would use if you
didn't know what city someone was attached to.


De Dominis, Marc Antonio (archbishop of Spalato), 111

Sardinha, Pedro Fernandes (bishop of Brazil), 644, 645


Patricia Gross

=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:44:06 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" <dwindex@LOUISA.NET>
Subject:      Re: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

I'd use Bernardin, Joseph, and then decide whether or not it was necessary
to put (cardinal of Chicago) in parens, unless there are two Joseph
Bernardins. I don't think there are two who are cardinals, at any rate.

Paula Durbin-Westby
dwindex@louisa.net

----------
From: Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
<INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Subject: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)
Date: Friday, July 09, 1999 2:04 PM

I have looked in Chicago and Mulvaney but can't find the answer. How do you
index:

Joseph Cardinal Bernardin

Is it

Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal

Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal or Cardinal)

Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph

Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago)

My vote is for the last one. Am I right?

Thanks in advance!

Rachel

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:47:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" <dwindex@LOUISA.NET>
Subject:      Re: RATS Re: cats

Apology accepted.  When I first started lurking this list there was a very
long thread all about cats on keyboards and so forth.  Being a dog person,
I was a bit bemused, but had two first impressions: 1) Cats cause many more
indexing problems than do dogs, and, 2) If people are talking about their
cats, it means they feel comfortable with the list.  Some lists seem to
have rather "dry personalities," so I was pleased. OK, back to work!

Paula Durbin-Westby
dwindex@louisa.net

Oh man, sorry sorry. I used to have my subscription configured to reply to
sender, not to the list, just because of this very sort of mishap. I don't
know how it got switched back. I can't find the command to turn it back
again. Does anyone know it?

Sorry everyone. Sorry Bob.

Low-walking back to my corner.

Rae

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:39:44 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

Hi Rachel,

I would go with your last choice, but I think CMS 14th edition now recommends
putting the title after the name and a comma, not in parens. At least some
(most?) of my clients have switched to that format these days:

Bernardin, Joseph, cardinal of Chicago, xx

Sometimes they want titles capitalized too. But I would definitely include
the title for religious and military figures. I believe that is a fairly
standard practice for indexes in scholarly texts, at any rate.

Nowadays, I tend to reserve the parenthetic modifier for distinguishing two
otherwise undistinguishable names:

Anna (diarist), xx
Anna (slave), xx

where the intent is that neither Anna has a surname recorded for posterity.

Barbara
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:59:57 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject:      Re: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

Hi Rachel,

The last one -- Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago) -- is an accepted
way to handle this issue, according to CMS 14th ed., 17.85.

CMS also endorses the style used in the index to Bokenkotter's A Concise
History of the Catholic Church, which is

Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph

Wellisch (Indexing from A to Z, 2nd ed., p. 369) says that it should be

Bernardin, Joseph, Cardinal

and AACR II (and hence LC) says the same (section 22.16C).

My only problem with using Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago) is that
you might not always be told a geographical location for each cardinal.

I personally would go with Bernardin, Joseph, Cardinal, since two of the
sources (Wellisch and AACR II/LC) support the treatment of clerical names in
this fashion.

Cynthia

At 02:04 PM 7/9/99 -0400, Rachel Rice wrote:
>I have looked in Chicago and Mulvaney but can't find the answer. How do you
>index:
>
>Joseph Cardinal Bernardin
>
>Is it
>
>Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal
>
>Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal or Cardinal)
>
>Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph
>
>Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago)
>
>My vote is for the last one. Am I right?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Rachel
>
> Rachel Rice
> Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
> Indexing, editing, proofreading
> http://homepages.together.net/~racric
> racric ICQ 31476947
>
>

*****************************************

Cynthia D. Bertelsen
Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services
Specialties: Food History, Nutrition and Foods, Cookbooks, Food Writing
cbertel@usit.net
Web page:  http://www.usit.com/cbertel/

"When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no
literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no
social harmony." --Careme
******************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:28:01 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <indexer@EXECPC.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of those days
In-Reply-To:  <199907090405.XAA18331@a.mx.execpc.com>

>Just wanted to say that we're all OK.  We professional indexers send in many
>many good indexes, which are used and appreciated, and we rarely hear about
>them.  What we hear are the complaints and demands of the few.  As in the
>restaurant business, and other service businesses, I'm sure.  Aggravating as
>it is, we have to take it in stride.  It takes all kinds to make a world
>..............
>
>We do good!  Now .... let's all give ourselves a big Pat on the Back.  Dick,
>hold the fries!   No career change!  ;-)

Janet, I just want to thank you publically for posting this kind of
encouragement and reality check, which we all need from time to time. I
agree with you completely. I would encourage everybody to save any and all
notes of praise you get from authors or editors, so you can read them when
you're having a day like Dick has had.

Dick, you have my sympathy. When I have days like that, I indulge in a
bubble bath and a bowl of strawberries, or I schedule a dance lesson. I
hope you'll find some way to reward yourself for the good job that *you*
know you did, however unappreciated it was.

On a more general note about accommodating clients: I have a list (a "specs
sheet") of questions that I ask clients when we first talk about the job,
so as to minimize nasty surprises (like finding out about a length limit
after the fact). I use an actual form that I made up so that I wouldn't
forget to ask this or that question. Do others of you do something like
this?

Cheers,
Carol
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:37:06 -0400
Reply-To:     Kevin Broccoli <broccoli@bim.net>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kevin Broccoli <brocindx@IN4WEB.COM>
Subject:      Fw: resumes

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Broccoli <brocindx@in4web.com>
To: <Indexer's Discussion Group>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 3:34 PM
Subject: resumes


> Could the indexers w/ the following last names please contact me.  I've
> seemed to misplace their e-mail:
>
> Rosenbaum
> Grimes
> Sims
> Hudson
>
> Thanks,-
>
> Kevin A. Broccoli
> Indexer/Information Architect
> Broccoli Information Management
> (914)985-9465
> broccoli@bim.net
> http://www.bim.net
> INDEX CREATION FOR:
> *Web sites  *Intranets  *Publications
> *Image Archives *Online Help
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:51:27 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sharon Sims <SharonSims@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of those days

In a message dated 7/9/99 2:30:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
indexer@EXECPC.COM writes:

<< On a more general note about accommodating clients: I have a list (a "specs
 sheet") of questions that I ask clients when we first talk about the job,
 so as to minimize nasty surprises (like finding out about a length limit
 after the fact). I use an actual form that I made up so that I wouldn't
 forget to ask this or that question. Do others of you do something like
 this?

 Cheers,
 Carol
  >>
Hi Carol and all,

I am in the process of starting such a list (among others) for my indexing
business and was wondering if any of you would be willing to share some of
these "helps" that have been invaluable to you in your indexing experiences.
It's hard to know just what to ask when starting out. :-)

Thanks for any advice,
Sharon Sims
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:23:15 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         ROBJRICH@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Cat Wisdom

All -

I am overwhelmed by the outpouring of caring and substantive advice that you
have sent in response to my inquiry re neutering toms.

Bless you all!    You have been wonderful!    But of course I knew that all
along....

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:25:53 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sonsie Conroy <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject:      Re: One of those days

At 02:28 PM 7/9/1999 -0500, Carol Roberts wrote:

>On a more general note about accommodating clients: I have a list (a "specs
>sheet") of questions that I ask clients when we first talk about the job,
>so as to minimize nasty surprises (like finding out about a length limit
>after the fact). I use an actual form that I made up so that I wouldn't
>forget to ask this or that question. Do others of you do something like
>this?

I don't do it, and I should. Would you mind very much sharing what's on your
form? I'm sure many others would appreciate it. And actually keeping a
written record in the job folder would certainly minimize irritation down
the road.

        Sonsie
        sconroy@slonet.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:55:30 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Spec lists

There is a good list of possible topics to include on a spec list with the
ASI sample contract (attachment A). It's always good to tie down your specs
before you start a project. Just part of the negotiating process. (How do you
know what to charge if you don't know exactly what the client wants up front?)

However:

In my experience, when things go wrong on an index, it isn't because I didn't
know whether the index should be run-in or indented. It's usually because the
communication between an author and an indexer can be kind of rushed when
there is a tight deadline (and when isn't there a tight deadline?).

Again, in my experience, authors have a different sense of how long it takes
to prepare their index and how long they have to review the corrections.
(This isn't author bashing, just my opinion based on 15 years' experience
with academic authors who don't always have a good sense of what production
schedules are all about.)

So, when I give an author 3 days to get changes to me, because I've just
indexed a 600-page book against a tight deadline, sometimes the author balks
at being rushed too. Would that we didn't have to rush authors to make their
corrections quickly.

But in my career as an indexer, my worst episodes can be attributed to poor
education about book production of authors who are hiring indexers directly.
I've never had an editor complain about tight deadlines, since they obviously
understand how they work.

So, short of trying to assess what the book production skills level of an
author is, what's an indexer to do?? You muddle through, try to explain what
you can, and hope for the best. Sometimes, and thankfully it is a rare
occurrence, you come to blows with an author about what the indexing process
is. Usually you can explain why you are asking for fast turnaround, but on 2
occasions in the last 10 years, I've met with authors who simply didn't care
what the production constraints were. I was the person rushing them, so I was
the person blasted for trying to jolly them along.

I tried not to take it personally, but it can be frustrating.

My solution would be to require every academic author to get better
acquainted with the book production process, then we'd all be happier. Did I
mention that my 2 bad experiences were both working directly for academic
authors? That is why I always sympathize with comments indexers make that
authors are difficult to work with. (This harks back to the "author blasting"
comments we sometimes make.)

On the other hand, I find it really reewarding to work with good academic
authors who appreciate a quality index and understand the constraints on
everyone in creating one. The praise they give me is usually louder and more
specific than praise from an editor or production manager. Authors give you
detailed comments about your work and glowing praise, but in order to get
that, you run the risk that once you a while you will have differences too. I
call the trade-off a fair one, except when I'm actually being blasted.

Barbara E. Cohen
Indianapolis, IN
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:59:57 +1000
Reply-To:     diagonal@hermes.net.au
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne <diagonal@HERMES.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: Digest Version?
In-Reply-To:  <B0001129930@blue.hermes.net.au>

Linda Jenkins wrote:
>
> I've been wondering the same thing myself.  I found something in the
> instructions that looked like a way to specify digest, but when I tried it
> it didn't work.  Does anyone out there know?
>

We used to use the Digest setting but recently switched to using the Inbox
Assistant (in Outlook Express - aka Rules Wizard in Outlook 98) to duplicate
all incoming mail from INDEX-L and move one copy to a folder called 'INDEX-L
Jon' and another copy to a folder called 'INDEX-L Glenda'. That way we keep
the header and author information, we can both read our own copies at our
leisure and it doesn't get in the way of any other mail.

Jon.

===================================
Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne
Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring
http://www.hermes.net.au/jonjermey
jonjermey@hermes.net.au
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:55:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <indexer@EXECPC.COM>
Subject:      Scholarly SIG members' e-mail addresses

In preparing to mail out an updated networking list to members of the
Scholarly SIG, I've discovered that some of the e-mail addresses no longer
work. Pretty much what I expected. If you are a Scholarly Indexing SIG
member and did *not* receive a test message in the last coupla' days,
please send me your current e-mail address. Please do not post your reply
to Index-L.

If you're an ASI member and would like info about joining the Scholarly
SIG, please also contact me off-list.

Thanks, y'all,
Carol


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
indexer@execpc.com                      | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
new Web address to come
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:34:18 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Sullivan, John" <John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM>
Subject:      Commas after index entries

The Chicago Manual of Style states:

"If the title is followed immediately by page references, a comma should
appear between the title and the first numeral...."

How terrible would it be to leave out the comma "between the title and the
first numeral" ? For example, instead of:

Commas, 125

you'd have:

Commas 125

Reason I'm asking is that I'm converting FrameMaker documents to HTML Help,
and of course in the HTML Help index there are no page numbers. However, the
commas are still being included, which looks awful.

What do you think? Is that comma after the entry really essential?

John Sullivan
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:06:48 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Commas after index entries
In-Reply-To:  <199907092050.rod67h.qku.37kbi14.1@mx6.mindspring.com>

At 11:34 AM 7/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
>The Chicago Manual of Style states:
>
>"If the title is followed immediately by page references, a comma should
>appear between the title and the first numeral...."
>
>How terrible would it be to leave out the comma "between the title and the
>first numeral" ?

It's a matter of style.  I have client who leaves out the comma.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:37:50 -0400
Reply-To:     "Seth A. Maislin" <smaislin@world.std.com>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Seth A. Maislin" <smaislin@WORLD.STD.COM>
Organization: Focus Information Services
Subject:      Re: Commas after index entries

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BECA5B.AD363C40
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The only time the absence of the comma is felt is when the entry itself =
ends with something numeric, such as these (made-up) entries:

Lotus 1-2-3 40-42
Mach 5 5
Oracle 8 199

Even then, however, it's workable. If you have no such entries, however, =
you can safely remove the commas.

- Seth


------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BECA5B.AD363C40
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>The only time the absence of the comma is felt is =
when the=20
entry itself ends with something numeric, such as these (made-up)=20
entries:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Lotus 1-2-3 40-42</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Mach 5 5</DIV>
<DIV>Oracle 8 199</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Even then, however, it's workable.</FONT><FONT =
size=3D3> If you=20
have no such entries, however, you can safely remove the =
commas.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>- Seth</FONT></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BECA5B.AD363C40--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:57:17 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         PDepri5514@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Online LMP

In a message dated 7/8/99 7:16:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Indexlady@aol.com
writes:

<< n a message dated 07/08/99 07:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
 piercee@ALPHACLP.CLPGH.ORG writes:
 << Yes - you must be a subscriber but subscription is free....

 REGISTRATION is free, and you can do a lot with REGISTRATION. However, a
 SUBSCRIPTION is $389 a year.

 Wi >>

Dawn

???


Patrick
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:25:21 +0300
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ibrahim Al-Kharashi <kharashi@KACST.EDU.SA>
Subject:      Re: Arabic names

   In Arabic, the article al- is usually removed for ease of sorting too.

"Paula C. Durbin-Westby" wrote:

> Mulvaney (Indexing Books, p. 169) and CMS 17.115 (p. 745) give two ways to
> alphabetize Arabic names beginning with al- .
>
> 1. Jamal, Muhammad Hamid al-
> 2. al-Jamal, Muhammad Hamid (alphabetized on J)
>
> Is one of these really the best way?  I prefer # 1 for ease of sorting and
> for appearance in the index ms.  I'm indexing a book for which I've been
> sent a "model index" from an earlier book by the same author which uses
> method #2.  In the current book, al-Jamal is usually referred to as Jamal
> in the text.  Of course I'm going to query the editor, but want to know
> which way, if any,  is au courant.
>
> Paula Durbin-Westby
> dwindex@louisa.net

--
Regards

Ibrahim A. Al-Kharashi, Ph. D.
Computer and Electronics Research Institute (CERI)
King Abdulaziz City for Scienece and Technology  (KACST)
P. O. Box 6086, Riyadh 11442
Phone:  481-3273  -  Fax:  481-3764
e-mail: kharashi@kacst.edu.sa
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:09:30 +1200
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Simon Cauchi <cauchi@WAVE.CO.NZ>
Subject:      Re: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

I agree with those who recommend following Wellisch's advice:

Bernardin, Joseph, Cardinal

CMS 14th ed., 17.85, doesn't actually address the issue of how to style a
cardinal. "Cardinal of Chicago" won't do because Bernardin was the bishop
(or was it archbishop?) of Chicago. His red hat signified his high rank in
the hierarchy of the church, but his territorial responsibilities were to
be a bishop or archbishop. We can talk loosely of "Cardinal Spellman of New
York", but he was the Archbishop of New York in 1939 and remained in that
position after becoming a Cardinal in 1946.

Because clergymen tend to climb up through the ranks, I have found when
indexing books about the Catholic church that often the bare names are the
best choice of index entries, minus the titles. Thus "Delargy, Reginald"
will do for the enthusiastic reforming clergyman "Dr" Delargy on p. 166,
the coadjutor bishop of Auckland on p. 170, the Bishop of Auckland on p.
180, and the Archbishop of Wellington and Metropolitan on p. 181, who two
years after his appointment and a few lines down on the same page is made a
Cardinal.

The same goes, of course, for regimental histories and other books about
the armed services.

Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand
<cauchi@wave.co.nz>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:59:04 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "C. Fox" <sandypoint@ACADIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Scholarly SIG members' e-mail addresses

I would like information on joining.
Catherine Fox
RR 1 Box 1119
Stockton Springs, Maine 04981
sandypoint@acadia.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Roberts <indexer@EXECPC.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Date: Friday, July 09, 1999 7:55 PM
Subject: Scholarly SIG members' e-mail addresses


>In preparing to mail out an updated networking list to members of the
>Scholarly SIG, I've discovered that some of the e-mail addresses no longer
>work. Pretty much what I expected. If you are a Scholarly Indexing SIG
>member and did *not* receive a test message in the last coupla' days,
>please send me your current e-mail address. Please do not post your reply
>to Index-L.
>
>If you're an ASI member and would like info about joining the Scholarly
>SIG, please also contact me off-list.
>
>Thanks, y'all,
>Carol
>
>
>Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
>indexer@execpc.com                      | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
>Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
>new Web address to come
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:16:51 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      still cardinals, but now a new prob
In-Reply-To:  <93159429901@voyager.together.net>

Such great input from you all. I forgot I had decided not to do any more
scholarly works and just stick to Judaica for the Masses. I just got pulled
in by the subject matter (bioethics, and absolutely fascinating).

Simon wrote: >CMS 14th ed., 17.85, doesn't actually address the issue of
how to style a
>cardinal. "Cardinal of Chicago" won't do because Bernardin was the bishop
>(or was it archbishop?) of Chicago.

Well, then, this raises another problem, because in the text he is referred
to as cardinal of Chicago. So what the heck do I do, then??????

And anyway, with the rabbis and reverends, etc., I'm not using their titles
(there are so many it would make the index daunting to read, and too
bulky), so maybe I should just drop the title for Bernardin for consistency
anyway, which is what I'd been thinking since I posted the original
question, and now from what Simon wrote, that seems like the best choice.

Thank you all!!!!!

Rachel


 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:06:17 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Hannah Huse <Huse@AOL.COM>
Subject:      One of those days: Indexing Jobsheet

Carol asked if others have a form for assisting in talking with clients about
upcoming jobs.  I keep some blank "Index Jobsheet" forms within handy reach
of the phone. This helps me to remember some keys things to ask.  Sometimes
the conversation drifts and, after hanging up, I realize I didn't ask a key
question.  FWIW, my form includes the following, with space at the bottom for
job-specific notes. I keep the Jobsheets within arm's reach on the bulletin
board so that I can snatch it up if I get another phone call about the job
(like change in date). I put them up in the order I expect them to come in.
I do back-of-the book jobs for primarily academic/scholarly presses, so the
form reflects that.  I'm sure others have improved refinements on this idea.

Date contacted_________________by__________
Date of job
Client: name, address, phone, e-mail
Title of book (or whatever)
Author
Publisher
Single or multiple authors
#pages of text
Notes present?  Index notes?
Illustrations: format?
Entry format: run-in or indented
Space limitations?
Index sample available? (this means do they have sample pages of an index
they like that they can send along. I get more info that way than asking
endless questions. I'm surprised how many places say they don't have such a
sample. I usually take that to mean there is more room to exercise my own
judgment.)

Turnaround time (for my benefit): pages received date, due date, #of days for
working

Index delivered as: _____disk in what format_____________
                          _____online
delivery____________________________(details)
                   _____printout_______both

Delivered to: press______author_____disk to_______

Price_________________________OK'd________
Confirmation letter (or contract) sent ________________(date, to whom)

For regular clients, I don't need to fill in as much as I would for a new
client.  And I don't always ask all the questions.  Asking about space
limitations is a MUST ASK question.  If the person contacting me doesn't know
about space allowances, I call when I actually start indexing the pages and
ask again.  If I am not given a space limitation, in my cover letter with the
finished job I state that no space limitations were specified (politely).

I attach any later phone notes, clarifications, additions onto this sheet
(always with the date) so that I can track changes to the job.

I'm interested to know what other indexers include.

Hannah
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:05:50 -0700
Reply-To:     jeanmidd@prodigy.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Jean Middleton <jeanmidd@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Commas after index entries

Richard Evans wrote:

> At 11:34 AM 7/9/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >The Chicago Manual of Style states:
> >
> >"If the title is followed immediately by page references, a comma should
> >appear between the title and the first numeral...."
> >
> >How terrible would it be to leave out the comma "between the title and the
> >first numeral" ?
>
> It's a matter of style.  I have client who leaves out the comma.
>
> Dick

Hans H. Wellisch in his "Indexing from A to Z" leaves out the comma in his
index.

Jean
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:36:50 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         ROBJRICH@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: cats

Rachel -

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response!  Your points all are well taken,
and I am much obliged.  Sound like an unneutered Tom is very much like an
inner-city kid: life can be short and violent.

Several people also have commented on the irresponsibility of allowing Toms
to father litter after litter.

Thanks, again

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:37:52 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Stroup <indexa2z@THE-SPA.COM>
Subject:      web site citations

A question for those of you who index books that deal with lots of URL's :
        When you compose an entry with a web-site name, are you eliminating the
 repetition of "www" prior to the identifying word in your entry?
        i.e.
        amazon.com

        instead of
        www.amazon.com

It seems that a long string of "www's" in the index is not reader-friendly.
Wondering how others are dealing with this.
Barbara**********************
Barbara Stroup, Indexer
30 Spruceland Avenue, Springfield, MA 01108
413 785-1835     e-mail indexa2z@the-spa.com

****************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:35:41 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         ROBJRICH@AOL.COM
Subject:      Ooops!

All -

Sorry to have posted the note intended for Rachel Rice to the list.  Wasn't
paying attention when I pressed REPLY.   Hmnnn... usually careful about
that....

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:03:35 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Timothy Griffin <Indexserv@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: web site citations

In a message dated 7/10/99 5:40:33 PM, indexa2z@THE-SPA.COM writes:

<< A question for those of you who index books that deal with lots of URL's :
        When you compose an entry with a web-site name, are you eliminating
the
 repetition of "www" prior to the identifying word in your entry?
        i.e.
        amazon.com

        instead of
        www.amazon.com

It seems that a long string of "www's" in the index is not reader-friendly.
Wondering how others are dealing with this. >>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:13:17 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      Re: web site citations
In-Reply-To:  <93162837201@voyager.together.net>

I have done this:

Web sites
   amazon.com
   somethingelse.com
   etc.

and also URLs either double-posted or xref'd, and depending on the
audience, maybe also Internet addresses or even address, Web site, or
whatever else I can think of. And again depending on the book and space
availabity, each site gets a main entry, but always by name of the company,
like

Amazon Books (or whatever their name is)
   Web address (or URL, or whatever is appropriate)

If there's a better way, I'd like to hear it, too.

Rachel

>A question for those of you who index books that deal with lots of URL's :
>        When you compose an entry with a web-site name, are you
>eliminating the
> repetition of "www" prior to the identifying word in your entry?
>        i.e.
>        amazon.com
>
>        instead of
>        www.amazon.com
>
>It seems that a long string of "www's" in the index is not reader-friendly.
>Wondering how others are dealing with this.
>Barbara**********************
>Barbara Stroup, Indexer
>30 Spruceland Avenue, Springfield, MA 01108
>413 785-1835     e-mail indexa2z@the-spa.com
>
>****************************************************************


 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:38:05 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         francine cronshaw <cronshaw@UNM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: One of those days: Indexing Work Order

Hello Carol, Hannah and listeros:

I use something very similar to Hannah's effort, although it has
fewer details. It seems to cover the new client situation quite
well and academic as well as trade books. It contains:

Date (of call)
Client (with lines for name and address)
phone no.__________ email ______________
PUBLISHER (if different from client) - same lines, info

No. of pages in MS__________________ Final pages? ______
No. of pages allowed for index ________________
Rate ___________________
Date pages to arrive ______________________
DUE DATE __________________________
Notes (several lines follow)

The "final pages" notation is a helpful reminder to make sure,
esp. when dealing with authors, that I am handling final pages.
Saves lots of grief later.

Best,

Francine Cronshaw
East Mountain Editing Services
Tijeras, NM 87059

505/281-8422
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:18:35 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "J. Naomi Linzer" <jnlinzer@SABER.NET>
Subject:      Re: cardinals
In-Reply-To:  <199907091808.LAA20404@neti.saber.net>

>I have looked in Chicago and Mulvaney but can't find the answer. How do you
>index:
>
>Joseph Cardinal Bernardin
>
>Is it
>
>Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal
>
>Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal or Cardinal)
>
>Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph
>
>Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago)
>
>My vote is for the last one. Am I right?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Rachel

I think according to Mulvany on page 159  for Catholic saints and popes. .
. I'd write:

Bernardin, Joseph, Cardinal

according to the "New Catholic Dictionary."

*****************************************************************************J.
J. Naomi Linzer
Indexing Services
POB 1341
Redway, CA  95560
(707) 923-4361
jnlinzer@saber.net
******************************************************************************
http://www.asindexing.org   <-- American Society of Indexers website.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:39:24 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Norcross <norcross@IPASS.NET>
Subject:      Re: web site citations
In-Reply-To:  <199907101828.OAA09541@pluto.ipass.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indexer's Discussion Group
> [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On
> Behalf Of Rachel Rice
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 1999 2:13 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject: Re: web site citations
>
>
> I have done this:
>
> Web sites
>    amazon.com
>    somethingelse.com
>    etc.
>
> and also URLs either double-posted or xref'd, and
> depending on the
> audience, maybe also Internet addresses or even
> address, Web site, or
> whatever else I can think of. And again depending
> on the book and space
> availabity, each site gets a main entry, but
> always by name of the company,
> like
>
> Amazon Books (or whatever their name is)
>    Web address (or URL, or whatever is appropriate)
>
> If there's a better way, I'd like to hear it, too.

I don't know if this is a "better" way, but it is what my
clients seem to want.  All my computer-book publishers
specifically request that URLs NOT be indexed--only Web site
names and entries describing the Web sites.  So, I would
have:

Amazon.com Web site     (that's their actual business name)
Barnes and Noble Web site
books, buying online
        Amazon.com Web site
        Barnes and Noble Web site
        credit card security
credit card security
e-commerce
        See books, buying online
        See Web sites of interest
Internet.  See Web sites of interest.
Microsoft Web site
online commerce
        See books, buying online
        See Web sites of interest
search engines
        Yahoo! Web site
security
        credit cards, using online
software
        Microsoft Web site
Web sites of interest           (that's my generic heading)
        Amazon.com
        Barnes and Noble
        book stores
        Microsoft
        search engines
        software
        Yahoo!
World Wide Web (WWW)
        See Web sites of interest.
Yahoo! Web site

You can see how the entries start piling up.  For each Web
site, I have 1)its name as a main entry; 2)its name as a
sub-entry under "Web sites of interest"; 3)its name as a
sub-entry under its topic; 4)its topic under "Web sites of
interest"!  Whew.  Sometimes I eliminate the topics under
"Web sites of interest" and just list the Web site names,
and, in a pinch for space, I eliminate the entire "Web sites
of interest" heading because all its sub-entries are already
cross-posted as main entries.

> >A question for those of you who index books that
> deal with lots of URL's :
> >        When you compose an entry with a
> web-site name, are you
> >eliminating the
> > repetition of "www" prior to the identifying
> word in your entry?
> >        i.e.
> >        amazon.com
> >
> >        instead of
> >        www.amazon.com
> >
> >It seems that a long string of "www's" in the
> index is not reader-friendly.
> >Wondering how others are dealing with this.
> >Barbara**********************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:13:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: web site citations
In-Reply-To:  <199907101339.rof1b8.mi8.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com>

At 01:37 PM 7/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
>A question for those of you who index books that deal with lots of URL's :
>        When you compose an entry with a web-site name, are you
eliminating the
> repetition of "www" prior to the identifying word in your entry?
>        i.e.
>        amazon.com
>
>        instead of
>        www.amazon.com

I's best to keep clear on the distinction between a site name and a site
address (URL).  URLs, as a rule, are never indexed.  Site names commonly
are.  It only gets confusing when the site name and URL are very similar.

For instance, it's easy to distinguish between The Weather Channel (site
name) and www.weather.com (site address, or URL).  You would index Weather
Channel and not weather.com.

For amazon.com, I'd index it by site name, which, I believe is Amazon.com.

Dick
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 10 Jul 1999 19:14:58 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <indexer@EXECPC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Specs list (was: One of those days)
In-Reply-To:  <199907100406.XAA02846@b.mx.execpc.com>

>I am in the process of starting such a list (among others) for my indexing
>business and was wondering if any of you would be willing to share some of
>these "helps" that have been invaluable to you in your indexing experiences.
>It's hard to know just what to ask when starting out. :-)

Here's mine (without much formatting). Obviously, many more questions could
be included (e.g., editor's/author's vacation dates); I just included the
ones that were most important to me. In the "Notes" area at the bottom, I
write down anything the editor or author tells me about the book: what it's
about, what audience it's for, whether it contains unusual diacritics,
whether it contains non-Westernized Asian names, etc.

I agree with Barbara that some instances of unpleasantness wouldn't have
been helped by using a specs list, so this is by no means a panacea. OTOH,
some would be, e.g., finding out about a length limit before you begin.
Anyway, your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
indexer@execpc.com                      | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
new Web address to come


                       Index Specifications

Title of document/book:

Author:                     Phone:                      E-mail:

Publisher:

Editor:                     Phone:                      E-mail:

Expected number of indexable pages:

Expected date of delivery to indexer of page proofs:

Date of delivery of index to client:

Format: indented   run-in

Alphabetizing: word-by-word   letter-by-letter    numbers before words
       numbers as if spelled out

Capitalizing: cap proper names/nouns only        cap all

Depth of indexing: Limit on number of levels? yes   no   If yes, how many
levels
      allowed?

Cross-reference format:

Indexable matter:    footnotes/endnotes    locator format:
                     charts/tables         locator format:
                     illus/maps            locator format:

Page-range format: full   CMS-elided     other

Length limit: no limit    lines/page:     characters/line:      pages:

Delivery format: typed, double-spaced manuscript
                 Mac disk   IBM disk   file transfer (Mac   DOS) MS Word
                         WordPerfect

Payment: hourly rate at $   to a maximum of     hrs.
         page rate at $

Author will pay for all reasonable courier and telephone charges: yes  no

Indexer will receive a portfolio copy of the book indexed:  yes  no

Sample index format attached:  yes  no

Any unusual treatment of name or terms I should know about?

Notes:
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 07:12:01 -0000
Reply-To:     Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle@dircon.co.uk>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Cardinals (and other dignitaries)

Simon Cauchi wrote:

<Because clergymen tend to climb up through the ranks, I have found when
indexing books about the Catholic church that often the bare names are the
best choice of index entries, minus the titles. Thus "Delargy, Reginald"
will do for the enthusiastic reforming clergyman "Dr" Delargy on p. 166,
the coadjutor bishop of Auckland on p. 170, the Bishop of Auckland on p.
180, and the Archbishop of Wellington and Metropolitan on p. 181, who two
years after his appointment and a few lines down on the same page is made a
Cardinal.

<The same goes, of course, for regimental histories and other books about
the armed services.

I understand what Simon is saying, and his method certainly makes for an
easier life, but I don't think his approach would do in the case of the book
I am currently indexing. It covers the reign of King Edward VI, during which
two noblemen were successively virtual rulers of the country, as the king
was under age. The first was Edward Seymour, the king's uncle, who became
1st duke of Somerset (by the way, the publishers have instructed me to put
titles in lower case, as they are in the text). Halfway through the book I
have just realized that Edward Seymour, earl of Hertford, is not the same
person, as I had thought, but the duke of Somerset's son. Now I have to
recheck all the references to both. I will have to distinguish between them
in the index, or the reader will be as confused as I am.

The second regent was John Dudley, earl of Warwick, who was later created
duke of Northumberland. The narrative goes back and forth in time to a
certain extent, and sometimes he is referred to as Warwick, sometimes as
Northumberland. Now I have to decide whether to index him as "Warwick, John
Dudley, earl of (later duke of Northumberland)" or "Northumberland, John
Dudley, duke of  (earlier earl of Warwick)". (No, I haven't forgotten about
cross-references.) And there are countless minor figures who suddenly
reappear, transformed by new titles, having inherited them from their
fathers who have meanwhile died, or had the titles newly created. I can't be
sure that I have correctly identified them all, and am worried that I may
sometimes have two entries for the same person. I will have to rely on the
editors of the book to spot any such errors.

And Rachel thought she had problems with cardinals...

Christine (not asking for advice, just having a moan)

************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue
London W12 8JB
cshuttle@dircon.co.uk
************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:18:29 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Patricia H. Gross" <phgross@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cardinals (and other dignitaries)
In-Reply-To:  <199907110635.CAA03871@mx03.erols.com>

 Christine Shuttleworth wrote

>Now I have to decide whether to index him as "Warwick, John
>Dudley, earl of (later duke of Northumberland)" or "Northumberland, John
>Dudley, duke of  (earlier earl of Warwick)". (No, I haven't forgotten about
>cross-references.) And there are countless minor figures who suddenly
>reappear, transformed by new titles, having inherited them from their

I know you weren't asking for advice, but I think you really should
reconsider having the main entry be under Warwick or Northumberland, rather
than Dudley. It really is standard to use the family name as the primary
index entry. Then, in terms of the way you sort the people out, you might
want to consider an approach I saw in a book I was just reading on the
reign of Henry VIII. The index for that (which I think follows a style I
have seen in other decently produced history books) lists people in a way
that I am reproducing below because I'm going to save it among my style
notes in case I need to do something on this period. I'm not sure it
follows any standard rules, but it seems more helpful to the reader than
other approaches I've seen. (I used an approach a little like this when
doing something with the names for a book of Emily Dickinson stuff, using
brief parenthetical information to let you know how people were related to
each other, so if you were confused while reading the book, the index entry
would let you know who you were dealing with. It didn't help that there
seemed to have been two different women named Mattie referred to in
Dickinson's letters, and the editors had not in the annotations done
anything to differentiate them.)

I'm listing Dudley and Seymour because they occur in what you are doing,
and then a full list of the Howards, because that shows this author's
approach in better detail. A lot of this reminds me of the struggle one has
in reading a Russian novel and trying to keep track of people by various
different names.


Dudley, John (Viscount Lisle, later Earl of Warwick, later Duke of
Northumberland),

Howard, Agnes (Dowager Duchess of Norfolk) (widow of Thomas I), 127, 128

Howard, Catherine (queen), 126-128

Howard, Charles (brother of Catherine), 128, 133

Howard, Lord Edmund (father of Catherine), 127

Howard, Sir Edward, 44, 51, ...

Howard, Henry (Earl of Surrey) (son of Thomas II), 146, 156

Howard, Thomas (Earl of Surrey and later 2nd Duke of Norfolk) (died 1524),
42, 50-1, 55-8

Howard, Thomas (Earl of Surrey and later 3rd Duke of Norfolk) (son of
Thomas I), 55-7, 64 ....

Howard, Lord William (uncle of Catherine), 128, 133

Seymour, Edward (Earl of Hertford, later Duke of Somerset) (brother of
Jane), 115, 128 ...

Seymour, Henry (brother of Jane), 117

Seymour, Jane (queen), 108-10, 115 ...



> I will have to rely on the
>editors of the book to spot any such errors.

Well, yes. Sometimes I've done indexes for packagers where I'm not sure
whether anyone knowledgeable looks at them when I've submitted them. I'll
try to query things that seem obviously worrisome, but it is still so easy
to make a false assumption based on something the author has been unclear
about.

Patricia Gross
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:43:59 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <indexer@EXECPC.COM>
Subject:      Re: INDEX-L Digest - 9 Jul 1999 to 10 Jul 1999
In-Reply-To:  <199907110405.XAA07943@b.mx.execpc.com>

>Subject: Re: Scholarly SIG members' e-mail addresses
>
>I would like information on joining.
>Catherine Fox
>RR 1 Box 1119
>Stockton Springs, Maine 04981
>sandypoint@acadia.net

Please note this request was to be sent off-list, directly to me, so as not
to clog up Index-L. Here is a description of the Scholarly Indexing SIG.

Cheers, Carol

Contact: Carol Roberts at carol.roberts@mixcom.com
Directory not available.
No fees

This is a relatively new SIG, whose goals include indexers' sharing
information about, and techniques for, indexing academic books; referrals;
and other marketing. We are in the process of compiling a networking list
for members of this SIG, so that indexers can consult with each other.

To be a member, all you have to do is send me info about yourself,
following this format (i.e., name, phone, e-mail, areas of interest or
expertise). Please try to follow the format closely, so I don't have to do
too much retyping:

Suzanne Sherman Aboulfadl
406-549-0555
aboulfadl@marsweb.com
social sciences, women's studies, religion, history, international
relations, political economy

Lillian Ashworth
509- 332-3220
ashworth@pullman.com
humanities, government/politics, geography, history, media, education

Victoria Baker
707-485-8257
vbaker@pacific.net
anthropology, philosophy, psychology, alternative medicine, women's
studies, lesbigay studies, art history, history

Here are the fields others have listed. Although I am not restricting
people to these fields, it is helpful is people can fit their specialties
and subspecialties into these fields, rather than further finetuning them:

Accounting
Acoustics
Alternative medicine
Anthropology
Archaeology
Archival research
Area studies
Art history
Audition
Biography
Business
Classics
Computers
Cultural studies
Early music
Economics
Education
English
Environmental sciences
Ethnic studies
Finance
Fine/performing arts
Gay/lesbian studies
Gender studies
Genetics
Geography
Geology
Government/politics
Hearing
Historical preservation
History
Humanities
International relations
Japanese studies
Language
Latin American studies
Law
Library science
Linguistics
Literary criticism
Literature
Maritime studies
Mathematics
Media
Medicine
Mesoamerican/Spanishstudies
Museum studies
Music
Music history
Natural sciences
Philosophy
Political science
Popular culture
Postmodern theory
Psychology
Publicadministration/policy
Reference
Religion
Rhetoric
Science
Social sciences
Sociology
Spanish language
Speech
Technical
Women's studies
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:27:06 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Smasioux@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: INDEX-L Digest - 9 Jul 1999 to 10 Jul 1999

Sign off Index-L Digest
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:02:07 LCL
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Michael Brackney <brackney@NCCN.NET>
Subject:      multi-author works ("potentially stupid question")
In-Reply-To:  <199907042101.OAA10242@nccn2.nccn.net>

At 12:32 PM 7/4/99 EDT, Do Mi wrote:
>Rachel, . . . I index a
>lot of scholarly multi-author books/collections, and it isn't usual practice
>to index the authors' names at all. I think there may have been a discussion
>on Index-L about this a while ago. Anyway, I would ask your editor if they
>want them in the index.

and at 04:01 PM 7/4/99 -0500, Carol wrote:
>
>Hi, Rachel. . . . When I index scholarly
>anthologies, I don't index the authors' names at all, just as I wouldn't
>index the author of an entire book. There's a difference between names of
>authors *within the text* (in which case, they are subjects) and authors
>*of text*. If there's an "about the authors" section, the editor might want
>you to index the authors' names for that location.


Rachel, sorry I couldn't respond when you wrote in.

My experience and take on this question is different from Do Mi's and Carol's.

When indexing magazines and multi-author books in both scholarly and
technical fields I've been asked to index the article or chapter authors,
and to me it seems helpful to show readers where to find what so-and-so
wrote on such-and-such, especially when some authors have written more than
one article or chapter apiece.  (I like to use "on such-and-such"
subheadings instead of no subheadings or article- or chapter-title
subheadings, and page ranges instead of beginning or end of page range
numbers.)

Do Mi, do you know why, in your experience, "it isn't usual practice to
index the authors' names at all"?

And Carol, you say that when indexing scholarly anthologies you don't index
the authors "just as I wouldn't index the author of an entire book", but I
don't see how this analogy applies, since indexing an author of a
multi-author book does not involve referencing the entire book.  Why then,
I wonder, shouldn't we index "authors *of text*" in multi-author books as
well as "authors *within the text*"?

All the best,

Michael
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:32:06 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: indexing author names

Sometimes, the rationale for not indexing authors is that there is no
"aboutness" to an entry for an author of a chapter or article. If you
construct the entry to include a subheading summarizing the topic of the
article, you have constructed an entry with some "aboutness" to it. But if
there is a single subheading under a personal name, you run the risk of the
editor or author deleting the subheading, and then you left with a question
on the "aboutness" of the entry.

I just finished indexing a book that included essays and historical
documents, so I had to keep questioning for myself which authors were
indexable and which might not be (under the standard scholarly rule of not
indexing them--which, of course, may not be standard at all, but like Do Mi,
it is my usual practice to see such information as unindexable "passing
mentions").

Anyway, it certainly doesn't hurt to include names of authors for every
chapter in an anthology, especially when authors might appear in other
chapters as experts. But good subheadings are helpful for the reader to sort
out the chapter by the author from the citation in someone else's chapter.

Since I almost always work under some space constraints and prefer to use by
space for entries with as much information as possible, I guess the way I
would phrase it is that I try to maximize the amount of information I can
provide access to in the
space allotted. When push comes to shove, I'd rather scratch an author's name
than a topical one or a personal name that has more aboutness to it.

So, no hard and fast rule; just weighing the trade-offs, as with so many
indexing decisions.

Barbara E. Cohen
Indianapolis, IN
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:17:25 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <indexer@EXECPC.COM>
Subject:      apology (was: Scholarly SIG members' e-mail addresses)
In-Reply-To:  <199907120405.XAA06182@b.mx.execpc.com>

Oh, how utterly embarrassing to have posted that message on Index-L, asking
another indexer not to! Sorry everybody (especially Catherine Fox).

Cheers,


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
indexer@execpc.com                      | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
new Web address to come
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:24:23 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Roberts <indexer@EXECPC.COM>
Subject:      Re: multi-author works
In-Reply-To:  <199907120405.XAA06182@b.mx.execpc.com>

>And Carol, you say that when indexing scholarly anthologies you don't index
>the authors "just as I wouldn't index the author of an entire book", but I
>don't see how this analogy applies, since indexing an author of a
>multi-author book does not involve referencing the entire book.  Why then,
>I wonder, shouldn't we index "authors *of text*" in multi-author books as
>well as "authors *within the text*"?

The rationale is that the authors of articles aren't being discussed; they
aren't subjects. The issue is not how much of the book being referenced.

I just checked in Mulvany's book. Her section on multiauthored books deals
only with the issue of vocab. control not how to treat the authors' names.
Has anybody seen an actual rule on this? I'm going by what makes sense to
me and what my clients have requested.

Cheers,


Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor  | I'm not into working out. My
indexer@execpc.com                      | philosophy: No pain, no pain.
Milwaukee, WI                           |              -- Carol Leifer
new Web address to come
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:39:21 -0000
Reply-To:     Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle@dircon.co.uk>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <cshuttle@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Cardinals and other dignitaries

Patricia Gross wrote:

<I know you weren't asking for advice, but I think you really should
reconsider having the main entry be under Warwick or Northumberland, rather
than Dudley. It really is standard to use the family name as the primary
index entry.

I wonder what sort of publications you have in mind. To take just three
examples from the reference books I have consulted, he is given as "Warwick,
John Dudley, Earl of, and Duke of Northumberland" in Chambers Biographical
Dictionary, "Northumberland, John Dudley, duke of, lord protector of
England" in Harrap's Encyclopedia of World History, and "Northumberland,
John Dudley, Duke of" in the Hutchinson Encyclopedia. As he is normally
referred to as either Warwick or Northumberland in this book, I really don't
think many people would look for him under Dudley. Also, the publishers have
sent me two indexes to volumes in the same series to follow for style, and
neither of these uses the family name as the primary entry in similar cases.

I am including cross-references in the case of Northumberland and two or
three other major figures, but can't do this in all such cases as it would
overload the index, and involve too much research.

Thanks for your list of names with explanatory details in brackets; yes, I
have already treated a number of entries in a similar way, to distinguish
people with the same or similar names.

< Sometimes I've done indexes for packagers where I'm not sure
whether anyone knowledgeable looks at them when I've submitted them. I'll
try to query things that seem obviously worrisome, but it is still so easy
to make a false assumption based on something the author has been unclear
about.

Luckily, in this case, my client is not a packager but a leading academic
publisher, although that still doesn't guarantee that they won't miss some
frightful error. I will certainly alert them to the problems I'm
encountering.

Christine

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:43:59 -0500
From:    Carol Roberts
************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue
London W12 8JB
cshuttle@dircon.co.uk
************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:23:26 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Lawrenc846@AOL.COM
Subject:      re cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

Date:    Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:04:23 -0400
From:    Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

I have looked in Chicago and Mulvaney but can't find the answer. How do you
index:

Joseph Cardinal Bernardin

Is it

Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal

Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal or Cardinal)

Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph

Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago)

My vote is for the last one. Am I right?

Thanks in advance!

Rachel

Rachel Rice
Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
Indexing, editing, proofreading
http://homepages.together.net/~racric
racric ICQ 31476947

---------

In Volume LXXXI (1995) of the Catholic Historical Review, the editor (a
catholic priest and professor at Catholic University in DC), requested and
required that the following format be followed:

Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph, Archbishop of Chicago


********************************************************
                                   Lawrence H. Feldman
                                   Post Office Box 2493
                            Wheaton Maryland 20915-2493

                                        301-933-2616


                                       Lawrenc846@aol.com

                            Indexer - Researcher - Writer
********************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:49:15 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
              maryann@ITASCA.REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US
From:         Maryann Corbett <maryann.corbett@REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US>
Organization: Revisor of Statutes
Subject:      Re: cardinals (yes, it's about indexing, not birdwatching)

Rachel Rice wrote:
>
> I have looked in Chicago and Mulvaney but can't find the answer. How do you
> index:
>
> Joseph Cardinal Bernardin
>
> Is it
>
> Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal
>
> Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal or Cardinal)
>
> Bernardin, Cardinal Joseph
>
> Bernardin, Joseph (cardinal of Chicago)
>
> My vote is for the last one. Am I right?
>


Hi, Rachel,

I too would vote for the last one, with a small alteration: in the
parens, I'd put "cardinal, archbishop of Chicago".  My reasoning is that
nobody is a cardinal "of" a particular city; "cardinal" is a rank but
it's not associated with a particular city the way "bishop" and
"archbishop" are.

I'm sure lots of people would still use "Bernardin, Joseph Cardinal"
since that was the style for so many years, but I notice that big
newspapers have now abandoned it for rank-then-name order.

What I like about the form with the info in the parentheses is that it
gives more information.
--
Maryann Corbett
Language Specialist
Office of the Revisor of Statutes
Minnesota Legislature
651-297-2952
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:24:21 GMT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Andrea Doria <satndol34@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Independent contractor status

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I was wondering about not keeping a separate checking account; since I'm
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allow deductions for major capital purchases (i.e. new computer) ...

anybody else have a problem with this or not?

Many tks,

ADInc


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

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 nowrap>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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 nbsp;</td>
<td width="100%" valign="top"><font face="Franklin Gothic Medium, sans serif"
 color="#5A3100"><div name='messagebody'>I was wondering about not keeping a
 separate checking account; since I'm already almost a year into my &quot;new
 business&quot; I am worried the IRS will not allow deductions for major capital
 purchases (i.e. new computer) ...
<br>
<br>anybody else have a problem with this or not?
<br>
<br>Many tks,
<br>
<br>ADInc
<br></div></font></td>
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<p><hr>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a
 href=http://www.msn.com>www.msn.com</a><br></body></html>

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------=_NextPart_000_7ed72aa8_aa0660e$62c5021--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:40:08 GMT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Andrea Doria <satndol34@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of those days

all I can offer to you, is, to get everything in writing beforehand.  i
recently indexed a textbook for a new client.  i asked as many questions
before agreeing to do the job, based on past experiences similar to yours.

then, the editor and i agreed upon rates and what they really expected.  it
was easy because the index had been previously done.

but it doesn't hurt (and creates smoother sailing downwind) if you try to
anticipate things before they happen.

experience is the best teacher.  keep your chin up, man!  it's only indexing
... (but I like it) (Sorry Mick Jagger) ...


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:43:16 GMT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Andrea Doria <satndol34@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: One of those days - with a twist

Uh, ah think Roseanne Roseanna Danna's grandmamma said

It's always SOMETHING ...

Just wanna set the record straight ...



_______________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:49:28 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Brian Peck (Research/Library)" <Brianp@MS.NCGA.STATE.NC.US>
Subject:      Re: Independent contractor status

Andrea wrote --
"I was wondering about not keeping a separate checking account; since
I'm
already almost a year into my "new business" I am worried the IRS will
not
allow deductions for major capital purchases (i.e. new computer)"

This should not be a problem. My wife is a tax professional and we have
yet to move to a separate account for her business, although this should
happen soon. We have purchased quite a bit of capital equipment using
our personal accounts and our personal credit lines. We also never used
a separate account for the several years I did contract work. The key is
keeping accurate records. Business accounts simply make it easier to
track and document cash flow. The IRS is more interested in what you use
the equipment for than how you paid for it. Don't forget they are trying
to stop the people out there who buy equipment for personal use but
charge it to the business.

Brian M. Peck
Technical Librarian/Indexer
North Carolina General Assembly
brianp@ms.ncga.state.nc.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:23:03 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      author names and cardinals, THANKS

OK, so say you *are* going to index the authors' names. Do you give them
the full page range of the article (chapter) they wrote? Do you put the
name of the article with their name? What if their name is given at the end
of the article, as in my case? Then how would you do a page range?

In my case we decided not to index them. It wasn't a scholarly book. But I
do want to know for future reference. As it happened, right after that I
did (and just finished and got nice feedback on it) a scholarly work, one
of those books following a conference in which all the speeches were later
compiled as essays. I asked the editor what she wanted and she said not to
index the authors, so that was easy. But I still want to know anyway.

And regarding Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, I went with how he was called in
the text, which was the same way throughout, even with different authors.
So I ended up just doing my own idea, which was Bernardin, Joseph, cardinal
of Chicago, but I put a query in to the editor to see if that's how she
wants it.

I like the form of Bernardin, Joseph, cardinal, archbishop of Chicago, but
he wasn't ever referred to that way in the text. Would I be overstepping
myself if I had indexed him that way?

Anyway, thanks to everyone. I got so many responses that I hope you all
will understand if I just send a huge blanket thank you to you all.

Rachel

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:06:43 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Pam Rider <prider@TSKTSK.COM>
Subject:      Re: author names and cardinals, THANKS
In-Reply-To:  <199907121447.HAA29060@decibel.electriciti.com>

Sorry to be late on this, but it took me a while to find my Associated
Press style book (plus Webster's Biographical Dictionary).

Cardinal for a church office is capped. If it's not that way in text, it
should be on your errata list.
Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:23:51 GMT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Andrea Doria <satndol34@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Independent contractor status

Here's the stumper:  Since I am a brand new business, I believe my payment
check for the last invoice will be made out to my company and not to me
personally.  I simply forgot.

That is what prompts me to open a business account.  Any suggestions?

Thanks,


_______________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 08:35:40 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "David M. Brown" <dmbrown@BROWN-INC.COM>
Organization: Brown Inc.
Subject:      Re: Independent contractor status

Andrea Doria wrote:
>
> Here's the stumper:  Since I am a brand new business, I believe my payment
> check for the last invoice will be made out to my company and not to me
> personally.  I simply forgot.
>
> That is what prompts me to open a business account.  Any suggestions?

There's a one-page article called "Making the Move to Contracting" available at

  http://www.brown-inc.com/rel-info

It has been a popular download after similar discussions.

--David

=============================
 David M. Brown - Brown Inc.
    dmbrown@brown-inc.com
=============================

A V A I L A B L E   N O W !        http://www.html-indexer.com/

HTML Indexer 3.0, still the easiest way to create and maintain
back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents.

Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:50:53 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Elliot Linzer <elinzer@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Independent contractor status and separate checking accounts

        Andrea Doria asked about maintaining a separate checking account for her
business expenses.

        I've been freelancing almost thirty years and I have never had a
separate checking account.  This has never been a problem for me nor for
any other freelancer I have known.
        In today's world, banks make their most of their income from the fees
they charge their customers.  Having an extra checking account may mean
hundreds of dollars a year in unneeded expenses.
        Keep track of your business expenses on paper, not just on magnetic
media, and you'll be fine.


|  Elliot Linzer
|    43-05 Crommelin Street
|    Flushing, New York  11355
|      (718) 353-1261
|      elinzer@juno.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:46:16 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Barbara Cohen <BECohen653@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: separate checking accounts

On the other hand, having separate checkbooks does simplify life when you are
budgeting, if you are as hopeless as I am about remembering how much of each
account is made up of a single total. (And clarifying just which expenses are
deductible.)

I've always maintained two accounts at separate banks. My checks are
different colors and I have different color checkbook covers. To simplify my
life.

I have free checking in my personal account, and I keep my business account
at a commercial bank. It's always a good idea to have more than one banker
who knows you, and I feel like there are some advantages to having both a
savings bank and a commercial bank to call on.

I agree that the fees banks charge nowadays are high, but I also think there
is something to be said for having an account that clearly recognizes me as a
business.

I also maintain two phone lines, so I know when I am getting personal vs.
business calls. Well worth the extra expense (to me), since I've been called
at some unbelievable hours by clients. But I understand how the extra $250 or
so dollars a year might be worth saving too.

A lot about this sort of thing depends on your disposition about what you
regard as simplification and what you regard as unnecessary expense. If it
costs money to simplify some aspects of my life, I generally don't mind. On
the other hand, I still haven't been able to justify the extra expense for
the convenience of a cell phone.

Chacun a son gout!

Barbara E. Cohen
Indianapolis, IN
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 12 Jul 1999 20:40:46 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Margie Towery <MTOWERY@AOL.COM>
Subject:      ASI Heartland Fall Meeting

The Heartland Chapter of ASI has been making plans for its annual, all-day
fall conference. Here's what's scheduled:

October 16, 1999
Heartland Fall Conference
St. Marten Vincent House Hotel and Conference Center
(on north side of Indy--easy to get to)

Heartland business meeting (early)

Continental breakfast/registration

"Editing Indexes: Basic Principles and Specific Applications to Medical and
Scientific Indexes," Maria Coughlin

Luncheon roundtables: Choose either "Psychological Issues for Indexers," with
Becky Hornyak, or "Retirement Planning and Investment Issues," with David
Glesenkamp

"Comparing Index Specialties: A Panel Moderated by Alexandra Nickerson," with
panelists Maria Coughlin, Joelynn Gifford, and Martin White (and audience
participation, of course)

"Marketing Strategies," sharing tips, strategies, and role playing
(obviously, also audience participation)

The fees haven't been finalized but should be very reasonable and will
include the continental breakfast, lunch, and an afternoon snack.

Brochures should be ready toward the end of August. Please contact me
off-list if you are interested in attending but are not on the Heartland list.

The Marten House also has a room block set aside for us on Friday evening.
The rooms are $89 a night (plus tax, etc.), which is good if you are staying
Sat., too. Their number is 317-872-411.

Come to Indy when the weather isn't so stifling as it was in June!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:51:19 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         TBrtrm@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: ASI Heartland Fall Meeting

Sorry, I'll be flying in from California on that day.  Perhaps next time.
Thanks for keeping me on the list.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jul 1999 21:13:08 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      More on Index Encoding

Hello, all--

Just adding a few personal tidbits, along with an advertisement.

It was not mentioned in the original notes, but there exists a problem with
CompuServe system users;
I have no idea if other ISPs have the same hassle: namely, one cannot send
any attachments other
than TEXT between CServe and other ISPs. [CServe --> CServe is OK, but
CServe --> AOL don't work.]
If BOTH parties are on CompuServe you may send anything: JPGs, EXEs,
whatever.

Perforce I discovered Uuencoding/decoding which produces text-coded
material. I quite frequently
ZIP some files, followed by EXE conversion, followed by Uuencoding. Works
fine.

ADVERTISEMENT    I suggest that you all go out and buy Christian Ghisler's
program, Windows Commander.
Or just download it for free from http://www.ghisler.com.  Price is $35 as
I remember. This fantabulous
program does everything; combines the good features of XtGold, LapLink and
File Manager. I mention
it here since it includes compression as well as encoding facilities: ZIP,
ZIP-NT [long filenames], ARJ,
LHA, RAR, UC2, MIME, Uuencode and XXrncode. Has a lot of FTP stuff which
I've never even looked at.
Try it you'll like it.

Cheers,
Dave Talcott
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:36:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Karen Lane <klane@KLANE.COM>
Subject:      ASI Web site survey: We need your help

---------------------------------------------------
PLEASE SEND YOUR RESPONSES TO

ASIsurvey@klane.com

and not to the list

---------------------------------------------------

The ASI Web Committee is planning to re-work how information
is presented on the ASI Web site. We already have some notions
of how the Web site could be improved to meet the needs of
visitors and regular users.

Now it's time for you to tell us what you'd like to see on
the site and what is particularly good or bad about the site
as it is now.

To be specific, we are interested in improving access to
information already there: how can we make the information
available in an intuitive, attractive manner with a minimum
of user frustration and a maximum of user satisfaction. As
it stands now, some visitors to the site struggle to figure
out where to find specific information they are looking for
and don't even realize the breadth of content available.
(If you don't already realize this, look at the index to see
how much content the site actually contains. Surprised?)

The thrust of the change is not aimed at additional content,
but suggestions about content will be accepted too.

---------------------------------------------------
PLEASE SEND YOUR RESPONSES TO

ASIsurvey@klane.com

and not to the list

---------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for your help.

Larry Harrison, Co-chair and co-webmaster
Karen Lane, Co-chair and co-webmaster
Marilyn Rowland, Co-Chair and co-webmaster
Seth Maislin, ASI Board Liaison
Diane Brenner, co-webmaster
Nancy Cannon, co-webmaster
Jackie Flenner
Julie Kawabata
Ilana Kingsley, co-webmaster
Gerry Van Ravenswaay, co-webmaster
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:10:22 +1200
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Simon Cauchi <cauchi@WAVE.CO.NZ>
Subject:      Re: Cardinals (and other dignitaries)

>Now I have to decide whether to index him as "Warwick, John
>Dudley, earl of (later duke of Northumberland)" or "Northumberland, John
>Dudley, duke of  (earlier earl of Warwick)".

Sorry to be a bit late with this, but may I recommend the form of heading
given in the index of the Oxford History of Britain (ed. Kenneth O. Morgan,
1988): "Northumberland, John Dudley, earl of Warwick, duke of
(1502?-1553)". And there's a cross-reference "Warwick, earls of, _see_
Neville; Northumberland". I notice also that the heading for the article
about him in the Oxford Companion to British History (1997) is
"Northumberland, John Dudley, 1st duke of".

I don't think there's anything much to be said for indexing him under
Warwick -- unless, perhaps, he was earl of Warwick and not yet duke of
Northumberland on most of the occasions when he is mentioned in the text.
And I agree that to index him under his family name Dudley would be
somewhat eccentric. David Lee has some helpful comments on this problem in
his article "Coping with a title: the indexer and the British aristocracy"
(The Indexer, Vol. 17, No. 3, April 1991, 155-160), including this one:
"The indexer would sensibly choose the most likely [term] to be recognized,
and if space permits make a cross-reference from the other ...".

Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand
<cauchi@wave.co.nz>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:53:44 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Karen Lane <klane@KLANE.COM>
Subject:      ASI Web site survey: URL

This is a repost to give you the address of the
ASI Web site:

http://www.asindexing.org/

---------------------------------------------------
PLEASE SEND YOUR RESPONSES TO

ASIsurvey@klane.com

and not to the list

---------------------------------------------------

The ASI Web Committee is planning to re-work how information
is presented on the ASI Web site. We already have some notions
of how the Web site could be improved to meet the needs of
visitors and regular users.

Now it's time for you to tell us what you'd like to see on
the site and what is particularly good or bad about the site
as it is now.

To be specific, we are interested in improving access to
information already there: how can we make the information
available in an intuitive, attractive manner with a minimum
of user frustration and a maximum of user satisfaction. As
it stands now, some visitors to the site struggle to figure
out where to find specific information they are looking for
and don't even realize the breadth of content available.
(If you don't already realize this, look at the index to see
how much content the site actually contains. Surprised?)

The thrust of the change is not aimed at additional content,
but suggestions about content will be accepted too.

---------------------------------------------------
PLEASE SEND YOUR RESPONSES TO

ASIsurvey@klane.com

and not to the list

---------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for your help.

Larry Harrison, Co-chair and co-webmaster
Karen Lane, Co-chair and co-webmaster
Marilyn Rowland, Co-Chair and co-webmaster
Seth Maislin, ASI Board Liaison
Diane Brenner, co-webmaster
Nancy Cannon, co-webmaster
Jackie Flenner
Julie Kawabata
Ilana Kingsley, co-webmaster
Gerry Van Ravenswaay, co-webmaster
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:26:31 PDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Manjit Sahai <ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Shipping charges for mailing final index

Hi everyone,

Today I got an indexing project from a *NEW* client. When I called the
editor this morning and asked for her UPS/Fedex account number for mailing
the final index on Aug. 9, I was told that "we require all indexers as well
as authors to pay their own shipping charges as it is a part of doing
business" (her exact words). Needless to say, I was very upset as *all* of
my current clients pay for the shipping charges. I always bill to *their*
account.

This new client is a VERY big medical publisher. I have gotton so used to
those clients who pay the shipping charges and this new client requiring me
to pay shipping charges is driving me nuts. I am not very happy with the
rate either.

Do any of you pay the shipping charges for your clients? Is it a common
practice for any of you? Should I pay the charges or should I refuse the
project?

I seriously doubt I will ever take another project from this penny pinching
client.

Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.

MANJIT K. SAHAI


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:33:52 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sharon Hughes <SHughes512@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index

In a message dated 99-07-14 12:28:16 EDT, you write:

<< Do any of you pay the shipping charges for your clients? Is it a common
 practice for any of you? Should I pay the charges or should I refuse the
 project? >>

   I have clients who do things both ways.  I've never sent a client my FedEx
number so they can send materials at my cost.  However I sometimes pay the
cost of shipping materials back to them, but I make sure that my fees are
high enough that I don't mind doing that.  The most common situation is that
the client ships the materials to me, at their expense, and I send the index
back via email or FTP.  No charges 8-) .
                                     Sharon
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:36:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Robert A. Saigh" <fugleman@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index

Manjit:

    Before I answer your question, I need some clarification.

    Are you saying that you pay your own shipping charges and are not
reimbursed?  Or, are you saying you pay the shipping charges and are
reimbursed in your invoice?

    If it is the first, then you have to ask if this client will bring
in enough business to offset the shipping charge (which you can deduct,
anyway).

    If it is the latter, then you will be remunerated and can deduct the
charge in addition.

        Rob

Razorsharp Communications, Inc.
Robert A. Saigh, President
6482 Lloyd Avenue
Saint Louis, MO  63139

314.781.4731
fugleman@mindspring.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:54:04 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John Posada <jposada01@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index

> require all indexers as well
> as authors to pay their own shipping charges as it
> is a part of doing
> business" (her exact words). Needless to say, I was

No problem...

"Dear [Client]:

Unless otherwise specified by the client, in an effort
to maintain the most competitive price to our clients,
it is [My Company]'s policy to ship deliverables using
the most economical rate, usualy UPS Ground. We will
also be adding a $5.00 handling charge to cover all
packing material and shipping containers.

However, we realize that there may be situations where
you would like to receive your shippment in a more
timely manner. Therefore, [My Company] would be
pleased to ship using any method you wish and you will
be billed only for the actual cost of the shipping
service, without a handling charge. We also understand
that you may have a negotiated rate with a specific
shipping service and therefore, would also consider
billing your service directly"


BTW...I was in sales for 15 years prior to getting
into tech writing, and we always billed our clients
for shipping or PU/Delivery.

I picked UPS Ground because it is cheap and slow. You
may be able to find a shipping method even slower and
cheaper than that.

Remember, be careful of what you ask for...you may get it.
===
John Posada
Western Union International
(w) jposada@westernunion.com
(p) john@tdandw.com
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:00:12 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Elliot Linzer <elinzer@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index

        Don't turn down work merely because of a disagreement about shipping
charges.  I usually add it on to my invoice as an "out-of-pocket
expense," but once I encountered a client who had the same line as yours,
that it is a business expense for the freelancer and they won't reimburse
it.
        If it matters, my experience is that Express Mail is less expensive than
FedEx and most of the time is at least as reliable and Priority Mail, for
two-day delivery can cost as little as $ 3.20.


|  Elliot Linzer
|    43-05 Crommelin Street
|    Flushing, New York  11355
|      (718) 353-1261
|      elinzer@juno.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:09:46 PDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Manjit Sahai <ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index

Hi Rob,

For this new client, I will pay the shipping charges and I *won't* be
reimbursed by them.

I offered them to send the index by e-mail. But she said that she does not
want by e-mail (looks like these folks are still living in stone age) and
she wants on disk and in hard copy format.

By the way, I am paid by per entry rather than per page or per hour. Entry
rate is my least favorite method. But I guess I am now stuck with this
index.

Anyhow, thanks to everyone for all the suggestions.

MANJIT K. SAHAI


>From: "Robert A. Saigh" <fugleman@MINDSPRING.COM>
>Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
><INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index
>Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:36:18 -0500
>
>Manjit:
>
>     Before I answer your question, I need some clarification.
>
>     Are you saying that you pay your own shipping charges and are not
>reimbursed?  Or, are you saying you pay the shipping charges and are
>reimbursed in your invoice?
>
>     If it is the first, then you have to ask if this client will bring
>in enough business to offset the shipping charge (which you can deduct,
>anyway).
>
>     If it is the latter, then you will be remunerated and can deduct the
>charge in addition.
>
>         Rob
>
>Razorsharp Communications, Inc.
>Robert A. Saigh, President
>6482 Lloyd Avenue
>Saint Louis, MO  63139
>
>314.781.4731
>fugleman@mindspring.com


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:17:34 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Robert A. Saigh" <fugleman@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index

Manjit:

    The per entry rate does not bother me as long as you are making your
money's worth.  Per page rates are easier to calculate for both the
client and the indexer -- you might want to mention this.

    Again, if you know this client will bringing you lots of work, then
to lose three to five dollars is not a major loss.  You might want to
get this in writing, though.

    If you are dissatisfied with this client and can afford to dump the
client, then do so.  Only you will be able to calculate these numbers.

    Rob

Razorsharp Communications, Inc.
Robert A. Saigh, President
6482 Lloyd Avenue
Saint Louis, MO  63139

314.781.4731
fugleman@mindspring.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:19:00 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Deborah E. Patton" <deborahpatton@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      indexing work

If you can do this job, please contact Judy Ruud at the email address she's
included:

I am looking for someone (preferrably in the Washington DC
metropolitan area) who could index a book in two weeks (ideally by
July 29, 1999).  It is a fairly non-technical
economics/business/public policy book, with about 370 indexable pages
(that includes the notes, figures, and tables).
    Please contact Judy Ruud at judyr@cbo.gov

thanks,
Deborah
==============================
Deborah E. Patton
Washington, DC Chapter Chair, 1999-2000
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:14:08 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Craig Brown <lastword@I1.NET>
Subject:      Unnumbered pages

I'm working on a book which has about 15 pages of color photos on
consecutive unnumbered pages in the middle of the book.  They are
referenced in the fore matter, so the determined reader will find a
reference to them.  However, since I'm already indexing other photos and
figures in the book, I'd like to find a way to include these in the
index.  I'll eventually discuss this with the editor, but in the meantime
wonder if anyone has any clever suggestions for a substitute page number,
preferably one that somehow mentions the pages between which they are
located.

TIA,
Craig Brown

The Last Word
Indexing Services
(314) 352-9094
lastword@i1.net
www.i1.net/~lastword
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:06:20 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index
In-Reply-To:  <93196967401@voyager.together.net>

Manjit,

To be honest, I no longer have any clients who require me to send the index
any other way than via email. I am still amazed that there are publishers,
especially big ones, that are still not doing this. You might try
suggesting it and see what happens, saying something like, all my other
clients prefer to receive the index as an attached file, and maybe you'd
like to join them in the last months of the 20th century??? Well, no, not
that, but you know what I mean. Whenever I get a new client who mentions
disks and hard copy I always suggest email and they always immediately
agree to it. I also always send a test file right away so there's no last
minute "I can't open your file" stuff to deal with.

If they insist, then pay the charges, keep the receipts, and put in the
postage section of your Schedule C.

Rachel (so nice to know what you look like now, and to have a "real person"
to reply to!)

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
 racric ICQ 31476947
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:30:50 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         JPerlman@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Unnumbered pages

Craig,

The one time I had to deal with this, I used the words "color plate" as the
page locator.  Awkward, but what can you do?  They do deserve mention in the
index.

Janet Perlman
SOUTHWEST INDEXING
http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:28:24 -0600
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Caroline Parks <cparks@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Shipping charges for mailing final index
In-Reply-To:  <199907141409.ropkjm.u28.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com>

A note about USPS Express Mail -- my experience recently has been that this
is a great way to get *free* shipping, as long as you're not absolutely
counting on that overnight delivery!!!  Of the three packages I've sent
this way in the last couple of months, all three have arrived later than
the guaranteed delivery time, and I've gotten my money back.  Of course,
you can't really count on that either; obviously they do sometimes make the
schedule.....but if you're feeling flexible, it can be a good alternative.

Caroline

At 02:00 PM 7/14/99 -0400, you wrote:
>        Don't turn down work merely because of a disagreement about shipping
>charges.  I usually add it on to my invoice as an "out-of-pocket
>expense," but once I encountered a client who had the same line as yours,
>that it is a business expense for the freelancer and they won't reimburse
>it.
>        If it matters, my experience is that Express Mail is less expensive
>than
>FedEx and most of the time is at least as reliable and Priority Mail, for
>two-day delivery can cost as little as $ 3.20.
>
>
>|  Elliot Linzer
>|    43-05 Crommelin Street
>|    Flushing, New York  11355
>|      (718) 353-1261
>|      elinzer@juno.com

__________________________________________________________
|
|   Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence
|
|   Indexing services for Books, Technical documents,
|   Software documentation, and Online help systems
|
|   Tijeras, NM
|   505-286-2738
|   cparks@mindspring.com
|
|   "Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim."
|_________________________________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:37:39 PDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Manjit Sahai <ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Cross References in SKY software

Hi everyone,

First let me thank all those folks who replied to me about shipping charges
problem. I know I can always on you guys.

Now this *new* client of mine wants cross references in a little weird way.
They want cross references followed by semi colon instead of a period. For
example they want......

AIDS; see Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome..... (of course 'see' word will
be in italics).

I use SKY and my cross references are coming with a 'period'. I do not know
who to put 'semicolon ' after the cross reference in SKY. Ideally I will
like to do it through computer rather manually. It will save me a lot of
time.

Can anyone tell me how to figure out this problem in SKY? Thanks in advance.

MANJIT K. SAHAI


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:07:46 -0400
Reply-To:     kamm@sky-software.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Kamm Y. Schreiner" <skysoft@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cross References in SKY software
In-Reply-To:  <199907142239.SAA11586@mx03.erols.com>

Hi Manjit,

Your problem is a configuration problem. The easiest way for me to help you
is for you to email the index to me as an attachment. I'll configure the
index for you and email it back to you.

Sincerely,

Kamm Schreiner

P.S. In the future, please ask me first when you have a problem. That is
what I'm here for and I am happy to help. Although I'm sure there are a lot
of nice folks on INDEX-L that would be happy to help you too. :)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Professional Indexing Software for Professional Indexers

SKY Software
6016 Oxpen Ct, #303
Alexandria, VA 22315

Email: kamm@sky-software.com
Web: http://www.sky-software.com
Phone: 800-776-0137 or 703-921-9472
Fax: 703-921-9472
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Indexer's Discussion Group
  [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Manjit Sahai
  Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 6:38 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
  Subject: Cross References in SKY software


  Hi everyone,

  First let me thank all those folks who replied to me about
  shipping charges
  problem. I know I can always on you guys.

  Now this *new* client of mine wants cross references in a little
  weird way.
  They want cross references followed by semi colon instead of a period. For
  example they want......

  AIDS; see Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome..... (of course
  'see' word will
  be in italics).

  I use SKY and my cross references are coming with a 'period'. I
  do not know
  who to put 'semicolon ' after the cross reference in SKY. Ideally I will
  like to do it through computer rather manually. It will save me a lot of
  time.

  Can anyone tell me how to figure out this problem in SKY? Thanks
  in advance.

  MANJIT K. SAHAI


  _______________________________________________________________
  Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:34:52 -0400
Reply-To:     kamm@sky-software.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Kamm Y. Schreiner" <skysoft@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cross References in SKY software
In-Reply-To:  <199907142239.SAA11586@mx03.erols.com>

Hi again Manjit,

Please be sure to email the index to me (support@sky-software.com) and NOT
to the list.

Thanks!

Kamm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:37:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Susan Hernandez <susanhernandez@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Cross References in SKY software

>They want cross references followed by semi colon instead of a period.
>For
>example they want......
>
>AIDS; see Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome..... (of course 'see'
>word will
>be in italics).
>
>I use SKY and my cross references are coming with a 'period'. I do not
>know
>who to put 'semicolon ' after the cross reference in SKY. Ideally I
>will
>like to do it through computer rather manually. It will save me a lot
>of
>time.
>

Manjit,

    The easiest way to do this is change your Options - under
Options|Index options|Cross references,  choose the first option for "see
Reference", (no punctuation) then in the boxes below, type in a "; " to
show what you want to precede the "see".  (Put a space after the
semi-colon or the ";" will run into the "see" ).
       This change should show up in your preview pane as soon as you
"refresh" the screen.

- Susan


***************************************
Susan Danzi Hernandez
BookEnd Indexing
susanhernandez@juno.com
(316) 789-0576  (Kansas)

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