Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9910B" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:09:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JAbbott916@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Venting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sonsie, Was there not written agreement? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:38:36 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Venting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:09 AM 10/8/99 EDT, JAbbott916@AOL.COM wrote: >Sonsie, Was there not written agreement? Not at this point. We were at the stage of reconnecting for this year's indexes, and I had dropped her a note to let her know I was available and ready to start. We would have signed a contract when we had settled on the details...but, alas, not now! Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:10:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Maxine M. Okazaki" Subject: Re: Windows 98 - not indexing, just advice! I installed Windows 98 only because I was having problems with Windows 95 crashing. When I installed Win 98, I did it over Win95. That way, I didn't have to reformat the hard drive and reinstall my software. The installation went perfectly and now my Win98 doesn't crash. However, I did completely backup the computer before installing Win98 because I also had heard of people having problems upgrading. That said, I agree with the sentiments of other...if you aren't having problems with Win95, why upgrade? My second computer still has Win95 and I intend to keep Win95 until it starts having problems or until I need Win98 to run newer programs. Hope this helps. Maxine Okazaki Okazaki Consulting mokazaki@duke.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 06:51:43 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan McQuarrie Subject: Re: Windows 98 - not indexing, just advice! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For what it's worth, I didn't have any problems at all with the upgrade. One reason to upgrade to Windows 98 Second Edition is if you have two PCs in the house that you would like to connect to the Internet at the same time over a single phone line. That capability is in Windows 98. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com P.O. Box 15642 Seattle, WA 98115-0642 phone: 206-985-8799 fax: 206-985-8796 anderson@the-indexer.com http://www.the-indexer.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:04:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KimIndex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Windows 98 - not indexing, just advice! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone and thanks for the advice! The consensus seems to be that it's not worth upgrading unless I have problems with Windows 95 which I don't! So I won't! Thanks again! Kim ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:08:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Snedrow@AOL.COM Subject: international personal names web site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Here's a site that I don't remember seeing posted to the list during my lengthy period of lurkdom. I have just discovered the site and found it to be quite helpful, particularly the name links categorized by region and culture. http://home.uchicago.edu/~smhawkin/names/ I now return to indexing and lurking:) Sue Nedrow ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:21:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Subject: Re: Windows 98 - not indexing, just advice! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maxine M. Okazaki wrote: > > I installed Windows 98 only because I was having problems with Windows > 95 crashing. When I installed Win 98, I did it over Win95. That way, > I didn't have to reformat the hard drive and reinstall my software. > The installation went perfectly and now my Win98 doesn't crash. > However, I did completely backup the computer before installing Win98 > because I also had heard of people having problems upgrading. > > That said, I agree with the sentiments of other...if you aren't having > problems with Win95, why upgrade? My second computer still has Win95 > and I intend to keep Win95 until it starts having problems or until I > need Win98 to run newer programs. > Exactly my sentiments! I agree totally. One other thing: before I did my upgrade, I read a very good article in Windows magazine about preparing your computer for the upgrade. It was an extremely thorough article that took me through all the common pitfalls and problems associated with the upgrade process. And it helped to go through the article's checklists and delete stuff I didn't need, and clean up stuff I wanted. It will also help you if you decide to upgrade to do the following first: (a) Dump all cache files, temporary internet files and history files from web-surfing. These take up HUGE globs of hard-drive space and you don't need them. (b) Run Scandisk, the THOROUGH scan. (c) Run Defrag. You should run Defrag at least once per month, even if your computer says you don't need to. ALWAYS run scan-disk first, however, and ask the program to automatically fix any disk errors it finds. (d) Get rid of programs you don't need. If you don't know what you don't need, go to PC World or Windows on line magazines and search for articles about this. You can always get rid of things you don't use, of course, but there are many things you can also get along without that you may not know! Oddly enough, one of these things are INDEXES! Every help program will generate its own index if you ask it to. When you access your help files, you are often asked if you want to create an index. This creates a separate file--which takes up a lot of space. You don't need it to remain on your hard drive after you use it, so you can delete it later. Usually these are files with file extension .sdx. other things you can get rid of safely are bitmaps that are used for wallpaper, Windows Desktop Themes, sample programs, Internet Service Provider programs you aren't using, extra fonts you don't use, and games you don't play. (e) You can also dump all the Read.me files you own, also, unless you access them frequently (and I can't think of why you would!) If you're nervous about getting rid of them, remember that you can always print them out first, OR you will automatically get them back if you reinstall your software they are associated with. (f) Use Start>Settings>Taskbar>Start Menu programs to Uninstall as much as you can. Once your hard drive is all cleaned up, and efficiently organized,you may discover that you don't NEED an upgrade, and that your computer runs a lot faster. Also, remember that some of the features of Windows 98 are exactly the kind of graphic-intensive, memory-grabbing things that cause slower performance in the first place: such as "web-page desktops." To upgrade to these because they look pretty and are fun to use doesn't make a lot of sense. -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" Visit the World of Whislbabe: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:26:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith Ayotte, R.T., ABBA Index Services" Subject: Re: Mea (more or less) Culpa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Rob, You may have eaten your breakfast off your face this AM, but you do it with such aplomb, using the fork of humility! The rest of us can only be the better for it; i.e., your good example. 8-) Really found the Colin Kelly thread enjoyable, being a history lover myself and having been born after those terrible War years. Graci to all you "CK" writers, Ardith ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:27:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Past-due invoices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I currently have four invoices outstanding. One was just sent and another is not overdue although I usually receive payment from this publisher a lot more quickly than I have this time. Another is just overdue, i.e., a week beyond 30 days, and one is seriously overdue. It's the last one I would like to discuss. I've had a couple of conversations with the editor. The last time we talked she promised she would call me back by X date. She didn't. Some time ago we had a protracted discussion on the list about past-due invoices and someone spoke of successfully going to small claims court. Could whoever that was (sorry I don't remember) please give the details again? Before I call this editor one more time I would like to have an action plan in place which includes the possibility of small claims court. tia, Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com http://lastword.home.mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 07:53:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Organization: the-indexer.com Subject: Re: Windows 98 - not indexing, just advice! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One comment about item (c) in the advice below: I've worked with a lot of PC repair technicians and they recommend against having ScanDisk automatically fix errors. You need to know what the error is and what the ramifications of automatically fixing it might be before proceeding. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com P.O. Box 15642 Seattle, WA 98115-0642 phone: 206-985-8799 fax: 206-985-8796 anderson@the-indexer.com http://www.the-indexer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Christin Keck To: Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 7:21 AM Subject: Re: Windows 98 - not indexing, just advice! > Maxine M. Okazaki wrote: > > > > I installed Windows 98 only because I was having problems with Windows > > 95 crashing. When I installed Win 98, I did it over Win95. That way, > > I didn't have to reformat the hard drive and reinstall my software. > > The installation went perfectly and now my Win98 doesn't crash. > > However, I did completely backup the computer before installing Win98 > > because I also had heard of people having problems upgrading. > > > > That said, I agree with the sentiments of other...if you aren't having > > problems with Win95, why upgrade? My second computer still has Win95 > > and I intend to keep Win95 until it starts having problems or until I > > need Win98 to run newer programs. > > > > Exactly my sentiments! I agree totally. > > One other thing: before I did my upgrade, I read a very good > article in Windows magazine about preparing your computer for the > upgrade. It was an extremely thorough article that took me > through all the common pitfalls and problems associated with the > upgrade process. And it helped to go through the article's > checklists and delete stuff I didn't need, and clean up stuff I > wanted. It will also help you if you decide to upgrade to do the > following first: > > (a) Dump all cache files, temporary internet files and history > files from web-surfing. These take up HUGE globs of hard-drive > space and you don't need them. > > (b) Run Scandisk, the THOROUGH scan. > > (c) Run Defrag. You should run Defrag at least once per month, > even if your computer says you don't need to. ALWAYS run > scan-disk first, however, and ask the program to automatically > fix any disk errors it finds. > > (d) Get rid of programs you don't need. If you don't know what > you don't need, go to PC World or Windows on line magazines and > search for articles about this. You can always get rid of things > you don't use, of course, but there are many things you can also > get along without that you may not know! Oddly enough, one of > these things are INDEXES! Every help program will generate its > own index if you ask it to. When you access your help files, you > are often asked if you want to create an index. This creates a > separate file--which takes up a lot of space. You don't need it > to remain on your hard drive after you use it, so you can delete > it later. Usually these are files with file extension .sdx. > other things you can get rid of safely are bitmaps that are used > for wallpaper, Windows Desktop Themes, sample programs, Internet > Service Provider programs you aren't using, extra fonts you don't > use, and games you don't play. > > (e) You can also dump all the Read.me files you own, also, > unless you access them frequently (and I can't think of why you > would!) If you're nervous about getting rid of them, remember > that you can always print them out first, OR you will > automatically get them back if you reinstall your software they > are associated with. > > (f) Use Start>Settings>Taskbar>Start Menu programs to Uninstall > as much as you can. > > Once your hard drive is all cleaned up, and efficiently > organized,you may discover that you don't NEED an upgrade, and > that your computer runs a lot faster. > > Also, remember that some of the features of Windows 98 are > exactly the kind of graphic-intensive, memory-grabbing things > that cause slower performance in the first place: such as > "web-page desktops." To upgrade to these because they look pretty > and are fun to use doesn't make a lot of sense. > > -- > CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" > Visit the World of Whislbabe: > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/4033/ > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:23:52 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Andrew Doria Subject: Re: Job opportunity: newspaper indexing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I responded to this a while ago; any movement on selecting candidates yet? Please let me know either way; many thanks. M. J. Barczak Washington, DC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:25:30 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Andrew Doria Subject: Re: Job opportunity: newspaper indexing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sorry for posting last message ... obviously meant for another recipient! MJB ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:37:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Past-due invoices The procedure varies greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction-- which court, what the complaint is called (usually a "complaint," but here in Virginia we like to be different, so it's called a "Warrant in Debt"), etc. If you have any questions about your jurisdiction, I can probably help you figure it out if you contact me off-list-- one of the advantages (or disadvantages) of being a legal publisher is that we do the court rules and procedures books for most jurisdictions. Exciting stuff. :-) Basically, though, you file your complaint with the helpful clerk, who will probably have the forms right there for you to fill out. Bring a couple of copies of your documentation with you-- some courts like you to file the bill, etc. with the complaint. The clerk will tell you how to fill it out, what you need to do, and will set a court date for you. Be prepared to pay a filing fee and a service fee. Have the street address of the defendant with you, too-- they can't serve a P.O. Box. Hope this helps! > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig Brown [SMTP:lastword@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 10:27 AM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Past-due invoices > > I currently have four invoices outstanding. One was just sent and > another is not overdue although I usually receive payment from this > publisher a lot more quickly than I have this time. Another is just > overdue, i.e., a week beyond 30 days, and one is seriously overdue. It's > the last one I would like to discuss. I've had a couple of conversations > with the editor. The last time we talked she promised she would call me > back by X date. She didn't. > > Some time ago we had a protracted discussion on the list about past-due > invoices and someone spoke of successfully going to small claims court. > Could whoever that was (sorry I don't remember) please give the details > again? Before I call this editor one more time I would like to have an > action plan in place which includes the possibility of small claims court. > > tia, > > > Craig Brown > The Last Word > Indexing Services > (314) 352-9094 > lastword@mindspring.com > http://lastword.home.mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:49:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Past-due invoices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig: You can also complain on-line through the Better Business Bureau. Rob -- Razorsharp Communications, Inc. Robert A. Saigh, President 6482 Lloyd Avenue Saint Louis, MO 63139-3445 314.781.4731 (voice/fax) fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:34:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SageWords1@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Past-due invoices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig, How well I remember going through something very similar last year--and it was only my second indexing job! Lousy, to say the least. What I ended up doing (and what worked, furthermore) was to write a letter to the editor with a copy to the president of the publishing company. I sent the letter both via e-mail and via regular mail (certified--for extra emphasis--and to show how much I really meant business). (Also, I had done a search on one of the search engines to find the president's e-mail address!) In the letter I stated that, as stated in my SIGNED contract, they did not own the rights to the index UNTIL THE INVOICE WAS PAID. In addition, I told them that unless the invoice was paid, pronto, I would be writing letters to 1) my lawyer, 2) the Better Business Bureau, 3) the State Attorney General, etc., etc. I despised doing this because it really goes against my nature, but by this time I was pretty furious. I also meant what I said--I really would have written those letters. After all, I had done the work, they were happy with the index, and they had signed my contract. Good grief, what was the problem here? The invoice was paid very shortly after that. Debbie Graf Sage Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:42:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Maxine M. Okazaki" Subject: Re: Full-time work, part-time indexing I work full-time at a non-indexing related job and part-time as an indexer (evenings and weekends). I completed the USDA Basic Indexing course in early 1997. My background is in the medical sciences, I have a MSc and PhD in Pharmacology and am currently doing neuroscience research full-time. When I marketed myself to medical publishers, they were impressed with my credentials, but since I hadn't indexed any medical books, they were reluctant to hire me. Even though I had experience indexing other books, I had to have experience indexing medical books! Talk about a catch-22! One publisher had me index a sample chapter. I've received 3 books from that publisher in the last year. What I find most difficult are the tight deadlines when working evenings and weekends often isn't enough. This entails taking time off from my full-time job and even pulling all-nighters (I'm lucky in that my schedule is flexible in my full-time job, so I can take time off when needed). I don't always have tight deadlines, but when schedules slip, you can't avoid it. In one particular instance, I had to call the editor and tell her I was unable to index her book because the scheduled had slipped so much, it was overlapping with another book from a different publisher. Then, as Murphy's Law would have it, the schedule also slipped on the second book. Unfortunately, the date the book was to be sent to the printer was set in stone (it was a computer programming book that had to be released when the upgraded software was released), so instead of having two-three weeks to index a 400 page book, I had less than one week. I ended up taking several days off work and working very long hours during that week. I've since decided that I really don't want to index computer books for the very reason that their schedules are inflexible. One thing I've learned is that editors appreciate when you can be relied on to turn in your indexes on time. If you just can't make the deadline ( like the one time I had an almost continuous migraine for a week!), call the editor as soon as possible and be honest with them. I've found them to be accommodating, such as, giving me an extra long weekend to finish index. Another drawback to indexing part-time, at least for me, is that I can only index one book at a time. That may mean turning away books that I would like to index. Overall, I like indexing. I find it very rewarding and interesting. However, when I've been working on an index for 3 weeks, every single evening and every single weekend, I really miss having my free time. My house is a mess while I'm indexing....very little laundry gets done, no house cleaning, etc. But that's ok, since I'm not a neat-nik anyway. Fortunately, my husband is very supportive whenever I'm working on an index :-D Also I urge you to go to local Chapter meetings and the ASI national meeting. I've learned a lot from attending these meetings but the best part of all is networking. Talk to other indexers! And you need to keep marketing yourself. As many other indexers have said in the past, market, market, market! I'm apologize for being so long-winded. Hope this helps. Maxine Okazaki Okazaki Consulting mokazaki@duke.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:00:58 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.A Binns" Subject: Re: Past-due invoices In-Reply-To: <199910081428.KAA02832@smtp7.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For those in the UK (well maybe just England - not sure with all this devolution) it is possible to claim interest on overdue invoices under the 'Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998'. You can see a summary at http://www.dti.gov.uk/latepay/summary.htm I am currently chasing two overdue invoices from one publisher and am hoping for a favourable outcome. Of course it is not much use if they won't pay up anyway. Margaret Binns At 09:27 AM 10/8/99 -0500, you wrote: >I currently have four invoices outstanding. One was just sent and >another is not overdue although I usually receive payment from this >publisher a lot more quickly than I have this time. Another is just >overdue, i.e., a week beyond 30 days, and one is seriously overdue. It's >the last one I would like to discuss. I've had a couple of conversations >with the editor. The last time we talked she promised she would call me >back by X date. She didn't. > >Some time ago we had a protracted discussion on the list about past-due >invoices and someone spoke of successfully going to small claims court. >Could whoever that was (sorry I don't remember) please give the details >again? Before I call this editor one more time I would like to have an >action plan in place which includes the possibility of small claims court. > >tia, > > >Craig Brown >The Last Word >Indexing Services >(314) 352-9094 >lastword@mindspring.com >http://lastword.home.mindspring.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:48:51 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Deadlines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/8/99 12:05:03 PM EST, mokazaki@ACPUB.DUKE.EDU writes: << Unfortunately, the date the book was to be sent to the printer was set in stone (it was a computer programming book that had to be released when the upgraded software was released), so instead of having two-three weeks to index a 400 page book, I had less than one week. I ended up taking several days off work and working very long hours during that week. >> I know this has been mentioned before, but I'd love to hear how people handle slipping schedules and deadlines. Ideally, I tell the publisher I need the same amount of time for the index, regardless of when I actually receive proofs (i.e., they get me the proofs a week late, then I return the index a week later than the original deadline). Of course, some publishers send proofs late but expect the index by the original deadline. Do most of you comply, figuring this is part of the job? Do some of you hold fast to needing extra time? Do any of you renegotiate your fee, telling the publisher that it is now a rush job? -- Teddy D. Teddy Diggs DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com phone: 501-771-1727 fax: 501-771-1731 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:32:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Czech and Slovak Reopublics In my book, Czech Republic and Czech Lands seem to be used interchangeably. Also, Slovakia and Slovak Republic are used the same way. Are they really the same or should I be creating four entries rather than two? Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:05:17 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan McQuarrie Subject: Re: Past-due invoices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've had invoices go as long as two months. In the most notable cases, they were from commercial publishers, although one academic press stretched the boundaries once. The thing I try to remember is that it mostly likely isn't the poor editor; it's probably the accounts payable office either being incompetent, or they have a standard policy of delaying as many invoices as possible to increase their float (it probably isn't the relatively small invoices from indexers that make a difference, but the other bigger ones. There is other possibility - if you are working for a non-profit where invoices are paid only once or twice a month because a Board has to approve all bills, then the timing can mess things up. I used to include a line at the bottom that invoices past due 30 days incurred a 1.5% service charge - I never successfully collected it. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com P.O. Box 15642 Seattle, WA 98115-0642 phone: 206-985-8799 fax: 206-985-8796 anderson@the-indexer.com http://www.the-indexer.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:25:58 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: AZ Chapter Meeting Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Arizona Chapter of the American Society of Indexers announces its next=20 program on November 20, 1999: So, You Want To Be an Indexer, II A revised and expanded workshop based on the popular 1998 presentation Date: November 20, 1999 Time: 8:30 - 9:00 Registration and networking; 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations Location: Twin Palms Hotel, 225 Apache Blvd, Tempe, Arizona 85281. Call (800) 367-0835 for directions. Cost: $20.00 for ASI members and non-members (includes all workshop material= s=20 and refreshments) Please visit our web site for a registration form: =20 http://aztec.asu.edu/azasi If you've ever considered professional indexing as a career, this workshop i= s=20 for you. Whether you are ready to launch a freelance business, are intereste= d=20 in moonlighting, or are simply curious, this workshop will answer many of th= e=20 common questions asked about indexers and indexing. Last year=92s session is not a prerequisite for this session. However, if yo= u=20 attended last year=92s session, you won=92t be bored. You=92ll learn even mo= re=20 about the profession. This workshop will include a review of some of the information covered in ou= r=20 first session, including * Educational and networking resources * Starting and marketing your indexing business * Equipment and software needs In addition, we will spend a large part of the workshop discussing the actua= l=20 process of indexing and index quality, including * Benchmarks of a quality index * Page proofs, files and working with publishers * Marking text and working methods * Making choices (terms, restrictions, etc.) * Meeting deadlines ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:10:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: Deadlines I used to tell publishers that page proofs a week late= index deadline a week later. Now sometimes I don't and just try to do the work by the original deadline. If I can tell that it won't work, I call them.. So far no one has been too adamant that I meet the original deadline, since they seem to be running behind on their tasks as well. I think this is going to be more of an issue now that packagers are on the scene. Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:34:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Past-due invoices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles is correct. The editor usually has nothing to do with payment of invoices. Once that invoice is off his/her desk it goes to accounts payable, and that's where the games are played and the hold-up occurs. When calling to check on an overdue invoice, I have to call the editor, who is my only point of contact at the publishing house. More often than not, the editor is suprised that it has taken so long, and that I am upset at that publisher for their policy of delaying payment past 30 days. The editors need to be told that. If it becomes a big enough problem, one of the editorial supervisors can take it up with an accounts payable manager and pressure them to pay freelancers in better time. It pays to let the editors know what their company's payment habits are and how it their accounting section treats freelancers. This doesn't help the person waiting for checks now ( a situation I am also in at present with a few clients). But longterm it may provide some help. Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:04:23 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Field Subject: Re: Chapter Meeting Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Speaking of chapter meetings,can someone tell me the closest chapter to San Diego, CA? I don't think we have one in this city... Thanks in advance. Karen Field Sr. Technical Writer Stellcom, Inc. kfield@stellcom.com -----Original Message----- From: JPerlman@AOL.COM [mailto:JPerlman@AOL.COM] Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 11:26 AM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: AZ Chapter Meeting Announcement The Arizona Chapter of the American Society of Indexers announces its next program on November 20, 1999: So, You Want To Be an Indexer, II A revised and expanded workshop based on the popular 1998 presentation Date: November 20, 1999 Time: 8:30 - 9:00 Registration and networking; 9:00 - 12:00 Presentations Location: Twin Palms Hotel, 225 Apache Blvd, Tempe, Arizona 85281. Call (800) 367-0835 for directions. Cost: $20.00 for ASI members and non-members (includes all workshop materials and refreshments) Please visit our web site for a registration form: http://aztec.asu.edu/azasi If you've ever considered professional indexing as a career, this workshop is for you. Whether you are ready to launch a freelance business, are interested in moonlighting, or are simply curious, this workshop will answer many of the common questions asked about indexers and indexing. Last year's session is not a prerequisite for this session. However, if you attended last year's session, you won't be bored. You'll learn even more about the profession. This workshop will include a review of some of the information covered in our first session, including * Educational and networking resources * Starting and marketing your indexing business * Equipment and software needs In addition, we will spend a large part of the workshop discussing the actual process of indexing and index quality, including * Benchmarks of a quality index * Page proofs, files and working with publishers * Marking text and working methods * Making choices (terms, restrictions, etc.) * Meeting deadlines ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:11:35 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Chapter Meeting Announcement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen, There is a Southern California ASI chapter, which is mainly LA based, and the AZ chapter. None in Nevada either. Check the ASI website for contact people for the mailing lists for these. Janet Perlman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Subject: Re: Windows 98 - not indexing, just advice! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charles Anderson wrote: > > One comment about item (c) in the advice below: > > I've worked with a lot of PC repair technicians and they recommend against > having ScanDisk automatically fix errors. You need to know what the error > is and what the ramifications of automatically fixing it might be before > proceeding. Yes, true to some extent...BUT, if you haven't been HAVING repeated GPF's or BSOD's (General Protection Faults or Blue Screen of Death), Scan Disk probably won't find much more than a lost file cluster, or so. And there is no harm in having it repair such faults. You can always have it save the error to a file. (****.chk) and then creating an "Undo" disk for it, if it makes it worse. -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" Visit the World of Whislbabe: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:20:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Past-due invoices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thanks to all who replied on the list and off with your thoughtful suggestions. Today, I asked my wife, who is also a partner in The Last Word, to see if she could get anywhere with the longest overdue account and she did. Long story short: they will be sending a check in about a week. In this case it appears that the editor may have been involved in the delay after all by not having gotten the proper signoffs on the invoice. However, there also seems to have been a recent change of procedures. Again I am grateful to the collective wisdom for help, and to my wife who can now add Collections Genius to her long list of desirable traits. Thanks! Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com http://lastword.home.mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:23:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Past-due invoices Depending on the jurisdiction, it's also possible in the U.S. There's a place for it on the form for small claims court. You can also sometimes asked to be reimbursed for your costs, which would be the filing and service fees. > -----Original Message----- > From: J.A Binns [SMTP:binns@HANGLETON.U-NET.COM] > Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 1:01 PM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Past-due invoices > > For those in the UK (well maybe just England - not sure with all this > devolution) it is possible to claim interest on overdue invoices under the > 'Late Payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998'. > > You can see a summary at http://www.dti.gov.uk/latepay/summary.htm > > I am currently chasing two overdue invoices from one publisher and am > hoping for a favourable outcome. Of course it is not much use if they > won't > pay up anyway. > > Margaret Binns > > > At 09:27 AM 10/8/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I currently have four invoices outstanding. One was just sent and > >another is not overdue although I usually receive payment from this > >publisher a lot more quickly than I have this time. Another is just > >overdue, i.e., a week beyond 30 days, and one is seriously overdue. It's > >the last one I would like to discuss. I've had a couple of conversations > >with the editor. The last time we talked she promised she would call me > >back by X date. She didn't. > > > >Some time ago we had a protracted discussion on the list about past-due > >invoices and someone spoke of successfully going to small claims court. > >Could whoever that was (sorry I don't remember) please give the details > >again? Before I call this editor one more time I would like to have an > >action plan in place which includes the possibility of small claims > court. > > > >tia, > > > > > >Craig Brown > >The Last Word > >Indexing Services > >(314) 352-9094 > >lastword@mindspring.com > >http://lastword.home.mindspring.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:56:11 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: nkoenig Subject: Re: Czech and Slovak Republics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Web sources seem to use "Czech Lands" to refer to the geographical regions of Bohemia and Moravia, whatever the specific historical period or form of government. The Czech Republic is a specific political entity that recently came into being when Czechoslovakia dissolved. Similarly, Slovakia is a geographical region and Slovak Republic a political entity. The author just may not see an important distinction here. On the other hand, information about the Czech Lands in the 16th century, would look a little strange to me if indexed under Czech Republic. So, if the text covers periods prior to the formation of the Czech Republic, I'd use two headings. Similarly with Slovakia. Nick Koenig >In my book, Czech Republic and Czech Lands seem to be used interchangeably. >Also, Slovakia and Slovak Republic are used the same way. Are they really >the same or should I be creating four entries rather than two? > >Paula Durbin-Westby > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 20:46:50 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Past-due invoices In-Reply-To: <0.92bb35f.252f933c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I rang the editor of a publisher when one of my invoices was rather late in being paid - not grossly overdue. It transpired that they had mislaid my invoice. From this it seems to me there should be no harm in enquiring if payment is unusually slow. What does one live on while waiting for late payments? Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:26:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Past-due invoices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" On 10/8/1999 2:46 PM J.R. Sampson wrote (in part): >I rang the editor of a publisher when one of my invoices was rather >late in being paid - not grossly overdue. It transpired that they had >mislaid my invoice. From this it seems to me there should be no >harm in enquiring if payment is unusually slow. What does one live >on while waiting for late payments? Interesting that you should ask. I recently received a flyer from a company who will advance a loan on Accounts Receivable. Didn't really look into it. Imagine the interest rates are heavenly. But, if you're desperate, I guess it's a resource. Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com http://lastword.home.mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:28:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Past-due invoices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:34 PM 10/8/99 EDT, JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: >Charles is correct. The editor usually has nothing to do with payment of >invoices. Once that invoice is off his/her desk it goes to accounts payable, >and that's where the games are played and the hold-up occurs. This is almost always the situation. In fact, if I'm having a hard time with payment, I ask the editor for the name and number of his/her contact in the accounting department, and =I= start bugging that person. Once, a company was about ready to declare bankruptcy and were holding all payments until the day it happened. A sympathetic bookkeeper put mine through for payment just under the deadline. Another time, an editor I was working with had some personal problems that made her totally flakey and unreliable. I finally had to call her supervisor (who, luckily, I had worked for before) because the editor never answered email or phone calls and never seemed to be in the office. The supervisor found my invoice, buried on the editor's desk, and personally walked it through the payment process since it was like three months overdue at that point. It pays to make friends with EVERYBODY you contact at a publisher or packager's office. The secretary knows where the bodies are buried , and if he or she likes you, can really be a help. Ditto with other editors, supervisors, bookkeepers, etc. Being on good first-name terms with these folks can be a godsend in a tough payment situation...plus, you may get more work that way as well. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:28:39 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Deadlines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:48 PM 10/8/99 EDT, DTDIGGS@AOL.COM wrote: >I know this has been mentioned before, but I'd love to hear how people handle >slipping schedules and deadlines. Ideally, I tell the publisher I need the >same amount of time for the index, regardless of when I actually receive >proofs (i.e., they get me the proofs a week late, then I return the index a >week later than the original deadline). Of course, some publishers send >proofs late but expect the index by the original deadline. Do most of you >comply, figuring this is part of the job? Do some of you hold fast to needing >extra time? Do any of you renegotiate your fee, telling the publisher that it >is now a rush job? I've yet to get brave enough to ask for a "rush fee," though I know several people here do, successfully. I try to be as flexible as possible, and if the time simply cannot be made up at my end, I will tell the editor that, up front. If they still want me to do the job, we agree on a date (somewhat later than they would like, of course) by which I'm sure I can get the job out to them. I've found most editors will gracefully accept this, since it's their problem, not mine, that the proofs are late. If it appears that there is no way I can do the job once the schedule has slipped, I will call the editor immediately (even before I know when the proofs will arrive) to tell him or her so alternate arrangements can be made. Now, if I could just find the stuffing to ask for those rush charges! Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:31:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Past-due invoices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-10-08 16:05:18 EDT, you write: << It transpired that they had mislaid my invoice. >> Personally, I was surprised the people seem to be calling the editor first. When an invoice is late, I call the Accounting Department first. I explain that payment is 30 days past the invoice date, tell them that I am checking on the status of the invoice and ask if there was any problem with my paperwork. Its always worked well. The most common reason for late payment is that the editor never forwarded the paperwork to their accounting dept. Then, I usually Fax a copy to Accounting and, normally, they will, check on the validity of my request and rush the check. If the editor is stimulated into searching out your invoice due to your call, the Accounting department may not understand that it is a "rush" issue and you'll just wait until the next payment cycle. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:54:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverlee and Doug Subject: Re: Czech and Slovak Reopublics Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Paula, I agree with Nick here. I lived in the Czech Republic for awhile and people referred to the "Czech Lands" when referring to Bohemia and Moravia. I also see "Slovak Republic" as the country after the Czech/Slovak split-up and Slovakia as the country in itself (as Nick says, the geographical region). I would use two headings for Czech Lands and Czech Republic, and (unless used in a historical context) use the same heading for Slovakia and Slovak Republic. ---------- >From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Czech and Slovak Reopublics >Date: Fri, Oct 8, 1999, 1:32 PM > >In my book, Czech Republic and Czech Lands seem to be used interchangeably. >Also, Slovakia and Slovak Republic are used the same way. Are they really >the same or should I be creating four entries rather than two? > >Paula Durbin-Westby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:22:34 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marilyn Flaig Subject: Re: Past-due invoices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I have an invoice past due, I try contacting the accounts people first. Often they will tell you if the company has a cash flow problem that may be temporary. Even large established companies will sometimes have such a problem. One company I work for was habitually late in paying and one of the editors advised me to write a strongly worded letter to the head of the company explaining that I enjoyed their books but wouldnt be able to continue working for them... etc. etc. This has seemed to do the trick and they havent been late since. Marilyn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:55:50 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Past-due invoices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:26 PM 10/8/99 -0500, Craig Brown wrote: >Interesting that you should ask. I recently received a flyer from a >company who will advance a loan on Accounts Receivable. Didn't really >look into it. Imagine the interest rates are heavenly. But, if you're >desperate, I guess it's a resource. If any of us had "real" accounts receivable (i.e., in the high 5 figures or more), we could employ a factor to either advance us the money, less a percentage, or sell them outright for a discount. It would be heavenly to have that sort of A/R situation, but I doubt most of us do. Which is why I established a line of credit with the bank. It has saved my posterior more than once, during a crunch. Since my husband is also self-employed, it is a necessity, not a luxury. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:37:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Past-due invoices In-Reply-To: <37FE127F.581E4B05@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Craig: > > You can also complain on-line through the Better Business Bureau. > > Rob I have used the on-line filing with the BBB and they act as a mediator. Though the company I had a problem with claimed my filing had nothing to do with their payment, the timing of the resolution and the filing was very coincidental--after 4 months of trying to get a response, let alone payment . J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 459 Redway Drive Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org <-- American Society of Indexers website. ****************************************************************************** ^Ý ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:10:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Macrex for sale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow indexers, A friend who decided not to pursue indexing has asked me to post a for-sale notice for her Macrex software. Please respond to Carol, not to me me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Macrex Software for sale version 6.37 If interested e-mail carolc777@aol.com carolc777@aol.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 21:55:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Past-due invoices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > and she did. Long story short: they will be sending a check in about a > week. In this case it appears that the editor may have been involved in > the delay after all by not having gotten the proper signoffs on the > invoice. However, there also seems to have been a recent change of > procedures. The longest I ever waited for a check was after a publisher merged with another one and completely revamped their payment system. My invoice just fell through the cracks in the transition from one system to the other. When I complained and sent a second invoice, I got paid. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 02:14:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JAbbott916@AOL.COM Subject: alumni dates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Compared to the weighty issues on this fascinating site, my little question seems like a flea on an elephant. I am indexing a school newspaper that covers a period of 30 years. One requirement is that I list alumni and the year of their graduation. What do I do about earlier issues in which a proud parent, who has a date of graduation, describes an offspring in attendance at the school who does not have a date of graduation -- and indeed may never have one? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 07:08:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Past-due invoices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:55 PM 10/8/99 -0400, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >The longest I ever waited for a check was after a publisher merged with >another one and completely revamped their payment system. My invoice just >fell through the cracks in the transition from one system to the other. >When I complained and sent a second invoice, I got paid. I am still waiting on an invoice that was due June 15. After several phone calls a month ago, and being assured that I would be paid immediately, I finally took the situation to my lawyer, who is sending a threatening letter to the publisher (it's a small press) and not the editor. Fortunately, the invoice is not a large one, but it is the principle of the thing. I cannot understand how these publishers think that they don't have to pay people who perform services for them. It comes back to the question, at least in my mind, of how freelancers are viewed--and it seems that we are not seen in the same light as others (doctors, plumbers, and so on) who perform other services in our society. I have never had to wait so long for an invoice to be paid and it is really annoying. The only other time I was stiffed on a payment was when a professor wouldn't pay me a measly $6.50 that her grant-awarding agency had neglected to include in the check. No, it was too much for her to pay, I guess. I gave up on that one. And I have never been able to collect late payment penalties (1.5% of totals). On the bright side, most of my clients pay on time. All it take is a few rotten ones to spoil it all. Cynthia ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialties: Cookbooks, Food History, Gastronomy, and Nutrition cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 08:22:51 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: alumni dates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If someone hasn't graduated yet, you cannot list a date of graduation, so those names appear without one. Simple logic. Therefore, it becomes clear who is a graduate and who isn't upon scanning the index. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 09:21:06 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: alumni dates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-10-09 02:23:54 EDT, you write: << One requirement is that I list alumni and the year of their graduation. What do I do about earlier issues in which a proud parent, who has a date of graduation, describes an offspring in attendance at the school who does not have a date of graduation -- and indeed may never have one? >> I'd say that you aren't being paid to do extensive research. My daughter's school lists current students with the date of their projected graduation. So class of 2002 isn't impossible, but how do you know what their projected graduation date will be unless its listed in the newsletter. I guess once you have finished the index, some of those earlier names will show up again with their dates of graduation, and if you are sure they are the same person, (how do you tell with John Jones) you could add the date to the entry later. I'd index the material in print and then send it back to the school for their additions and changes. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:42:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: inclusion of authors cited/discussed In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19991005143854.14273692@pop3.nccn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:36 PM 10/5/99 -0400, I wrote: >At 05:29 PM 10/4/99 -0400, Kara wrote: >> >>. . . >> >>In this case, the editor does want these names included, except where >>citations are parenthetical. He also wants all references to the authors' >>previous works included (with the same criterion.) While it still seems a >>bit odd to me to include entries like: >> >>Smith, John >> on contracts >> on hiring >> on salaries >> (and so on; there are quite a number of them) >> >>in a book *by* Smith (after all, the whole book is "Smith, on something or >>other"), if that's what the customer wants, that's what they'll get! :-) >> > > >Hello Kara: (I've clarified a couple of terms in my response -- MB) >Such entries seem odd to me too but primarily for a different reason. > >The main problem I see is that these subs are to be used for indexing >citations instead of discussions in the text, to which they logically and >presumably refer, and for which we use them commonly. Such entries under >the name of the author may look odd, but the experience of looking up the >references and finding only citations may be very frustrating. > >I've raised this problem before on Index-l: the ambiguity inherent in >indexing citations with plain unformatted and/or unannotated page numbers >in the same way that we often index substantive information about people in >unmodified name-only entries. Except in works in which all name-only >entries can be presumed to refer to citations, this practice can mislead >readers into looking up name references with the expectation of finding >substantive discusssions. > >We could resolve this problem by annotating page references to citations >with "w" -- for "work(s) cited" (as in "op. cit."). (I think "w" would >work better than "c" because "w" would refer directly to the work itself, >as opposed to the author's citation of it.) > >Thus, in your example: > >Smith, John, 234 (an added reference to a hypothetical about-the-author > on contracts, 29w passage on the last page) > on hiring, 205w > on salaries, 117w > >I acknowledge that using this annotation would impose an initial demand >on the reader but I believe that the added clarity would make it worthwhile. > >What do you (and others) think? > Addendum: For the record I'd like to add that the annotation "w" would clarify the same references indexed in Smith, John, 234 works, 29w, 117w, 205w instead of Smith, John, 234 works, 29, 117, 205 or indexed without any subheadings at all in Smith, John, 29w, 117w, 205w, 234 instead of Smith, John, 29, 117, 205, 234 (because the annotations distinguish citations from discussions). The usefulness of such annotations would be even more apparent in indexes for books in which there are references to people as well as citations in the main body of the text. On the other hand, of course, such annotations would be superfluous in indexes for books in which name-only entries could be presumed to refer to citations. In such indexes something like Smith, John, 29, 117, 205 about, 234 (using the subheading "about" suggested months ago by Ann Norcross) would work fine. Best regards to everyone, Michael ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:51:45 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Max Dalrymple Subject: Publisher's Virus? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF1244.47D3C440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF1244.47D3C440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A question that is related to indexing: I received writing guidelines from a publisher - along with a virus which Norton Anit-Virus detected. I wrote back telling him I destroyed the file. He sent the same document claiming his program - not Norton - didn't find a virus. I sent him the complete name and suggested he verify whether that virus was among those detected by his program. The question is: How much information do you give someone - including publishers (this one is a web publisher) - from whom you've received a virus? It is possible this virus was connected at my local ISP, but a repeat virus is unlikely to have come from that source. Max Dalrymple, MLS 702 Sunset Road B-13 Tucumcari, NM 88401 505/461-1292 mdalry@sr66.com ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF1244.47D3C440 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Max Dalrymple.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Max Dalrymple.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Dalrymple;Max FN:Max Dalrymple EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:publiclibrary@crosswinds.net REV:19991009T165145Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BF1244.47D3C440-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:15:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John M. Rocklin" Subject: Re: alumni dates In-Reply-To: <40ea92c4.25303763@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am a reference librarian at a private school and this exact indexing dilemma has come up in indexing the publications of this school. I think the answer I have applies mostly to private schools rather than public schools. If there are current students, we use the expected year of graduation. If there are students who attended the school in the past but did not graduate for one reason or another, we still use the year of graduation if they had stayed on (assuming a four-year cycle). There is a rule at this school which may make some sense of this; if you had attended this school for at least one semester, you are considered an alumna/us. When one thinks of building the endowment, this makes a lot of sense. I hope this lends to the discussion! John Rocklin At 02:14 AM 10/9/99 EDT, you wrote: >Compared to the weighty issues on this fascinating site, my little question >seems like a flea on an elephant. I am indexing a school newspaper that >covers a period of 30 years. One requirement is that I list alumni and the >year of their graduation. What do I do about earlier issues in which a proud >parent, who has a date of graduation, describes an offspring in attendance at >the school who does not have a date of graduation -- and indeed may never >have one? > > ---------------------------------------------------------- John M. Rocklin Indexing Services PO Box 325 35 Split Rock Road Warner, NH 03278 (603)456-3137 (phone and FAX) jrocklin@mcttelecom.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 10:39:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: Publisher's Virus? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Max Dalrymple wrote: > > How much information do you give someone ... from whom you've > received a virus? It is possible this virus was connected at > my local ISP I cannot think of a scenario in which either an e-mail message or an attached document could be "infected" as it passed through an ISP. Any virus was almost certainly acquired at the point of origination. (By the way, I'm not a virus expert--just a long-time computer user and a happy owner of McAfee VirusScan, which has saved me from several nasty infections.) As for what to tell the publisher--where's the harm? Tell them all you can. Unless they're intentionally sending out infected files, they can only benefit from the information. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= A V A I L A B L E N O W ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ HTML Indexer 3.1, still the easiest way to create and maintain back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. Now including options for HTML Help and JavaHelp indexes, too! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 17:55:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: alumni dates In-Reply-To: <0.18ed92ed.25309b42@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The university that my wife and I graduated from assigns you a class when you arrive and that is your alumni class regardless of whether you graduate earlier or later (keeps you with your chums). Also, you are a full-fledged alum starting when you enroll. I realize that this is not standard practice. My father attended LSU right after WWII, and back then the GI bill paid all tuition and fees plus a stipend. LSU immediately made new students alums and made lifetime alumni association membership (at over 100 times the yearly rate) mandatory and so paid by the GI bill. To make matters more interesting, he was assigned to the class of the year he enrolled (1946). Therefore he was an alumnus of the class of 1946, but he graduated in 1949, and those who had enrolled earlier and would graduate in 1948 were not alumni (class of 1948) until that year. Soon the VA twigged to that scam and LSU went back to its usual system. Marvant On Sat, 9 Oct 1999 SHughes512@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 99-10-09 02:23:54 EDT, you write: > > << One requirement is that I list alumni and the > year of their graduation. What do I do about earlier issues in which a proud > parent, who has a date of graduation, describes an offspring in attendance at > the school who does not have a date of graduation -- and indeed may never > have one? >> > > I'd say that you aren't being paid to do extensive research. My > daughter's school lists current students with the date of their projected > graduation. So class of 2002 isn't impossible, but how do you know what > their projected graduation date will be unless its listed in the newsletter. > I guess once you have finished the index, some of those earlier names will > show up again with their dates of graduation, and if you are sure they are > the same person, (how do you tell with John Jones) you could add the date to > the entry later. I'd index the material in print and then send it back to > the school for their additions and changes. > Sharon > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 05:51:57 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: cgweaver@MINDSPRING.COM Subject: Re: Publisher's virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not all virus-checking software is created equal -- or updated regularly. I recently received an attached file from an extremely reliable source, which Dr. Solomon (one of the TWO virus checkers I have on my computer) flagged as infected. Norton Anti-Virus did not pick it up. After disinfecting and removing the offending virus I notified the person who sent me the attachment (along with the rest of the people she had copied on the message). She ran her virus checker and couldn't find it. Then she checked again with a different virus-checker and found it. So the bottom line is that there is NO SUCH THING as virus immunity as long as you're exchanging files with others. All you can do is update your virus protection software regularly, and be prepared to deal with the consequences when all safeguards fail. Carolyn Weaver Weaver Indexing Service Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:49:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM Subject: Re: Past-due invoices, and copyright issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How timely this discussion (started by Craig Brown) is for me. I have an invoice over 4 months old, and have just mailed by certified letter my formal demand for payment, stating that I will take legal action if I'm not paid within 10 days of receipt of the letter. (The author is on my side, by the way; they don't answer his calls either!) I'll probably go to Small Claims because the amount is under $1000. However, if I hired an intellectual property lawyer, I would consider making a novel claim: Since my index is a significant and separate part of the book, and since I haven't been paid for it, I still own it (it is no longer a work-for-hire). Can I claim copyright in it? Can I put a lien on the physical books? (they are not yet in the stores). Has anybody ever tested this line of argument? It would surely strengthen my case (and all indexers' cases) if a precedent could be found. Peter Rooney magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:46:53 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Fw: First printed index MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Christine Headley I'm doing an Open University course called 'Culture and Belief in Europe 1450-1600'. The course material covers the development of printing, etc, and twice lists indexers along with the type-founders and compositors as people who made books happen. Apart from the Index of Censored Books, which is a catalogue rather than an index - it doesn't have sub-heads saying why the books are dangerously subversive - does anyone know which book contained the first printed index? Exam's on Tuesday - please cross fingers for a question on printing! Best wishes Christine Christine Headley Copyeditor and Indexer Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:01:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: Fw: First printed index In-Reply-To: <000201bf13e0$a8dfbb20$e1dd93c3@user> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have seen a book of sermon topics from that period, which still had attached the chains to keep the monks from stealing it. I did not handle it myself but when the museum official showed a few pages there was what appeared to be an index or table of contents in the back. I confess I did not look closely, except at the chains (which were a clever contraption): this was a very used utilitarian book in script that I would have been unfamiliar with even had it been neat. I would still have studied it eagerly had not I been proffered volumes of greater (to me) intellectual interest and of exquisite beauty, some from the same period. I do not remember any examples but I assume indexing preceeded printing by movable type. I would certainly expect some of the scholastics to have done so, sometimes as a gloss on an earlier author (eg directing the reader of Aristotle to appropriate passages on various subjects). An index is an easy and valuable addition to a manuscript. Best, Marvant ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:52:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Olason Organization: Indexes & Knowledge Maps Subject: Re: Past-due invoices, and copyright issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, I have used the copyright argument to collect an overdue invoice. I had sent 6 overdue notices to a particular publisher. I finally got their attention when I made the claim that I owned the copyright to the index until I received payment. I was Fedxd a check immediately after the publisher received the overdue notice with the copyright claim. We never went to court, so it was never tested. However, it was enough to get the publisher's attention and I got paid in full plus a 20% overdue fee. Good luck! Susan Olason Indexes & Knowledge Maps 303-973-5705 or email: oleduke@ix.netcom.com magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM wrote: > > How timely this discussion (started by Craig Brown) > is for me. I have an invoice over > 4 months old, and have just mailed by certified letter my > formal demand for payment, stating that I will take legal > action if I'm not paid within 10 days of receipt of the > letter. (The author is on my side, by the way; they don't > answer his calls either!) > I'll probably go to Small Claims because the amount is > under $1000. However, if I hired an intellectual > property lawyer, I would consider making a novel claim: > Since my index is a significant and separate part of the > book, and since I haven't been paid for it, I still own > it (it is no longer a work-for-hire). Can I claim copyright > in it? Can I put a lien on the physical books? > (they are not yet in the stores). > Has anybody ever tested this line of argument? It > would surely strengthen my case (and all indexers' cases) > if a precedent could be found. > > Peter Rooney > magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:52:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: larryNOSPAMh123@HOME.COM Subject: Re: First printed index Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" There is some good information about this, if not a crisp answer, on the ASI web site at: http://www.asindexing.org/history.htm One of the sources cited is an article called "The Oldest Printed Indexes" by Professor Hans Wellisch, which appeared in The Indexer 15(2), p. 73-82 in 1986. Regards, Larry Harrison Co-Webmaster American Society of Indexers http://www.asindexing.org/ and Secretary/Treasurer, Twin Cities Chapter [please remove NOSPAM to email me directly] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:30:08 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sutherland Subject: Re: Fw: First printed index The message <000201bf13e0$a8dfbb20$e1dd93c3@user> from Christine Headley contains these words: > Apart from the Index of Censored Books, which is a catalogue rather than an > index - it doesn't have sub-heads saying why the books are dangerously > subversive - does anyone know which book contained the first printed index? Wellisch (2nd ed.) credits it to St. Augustine's "De arte praedicandi" (" On the art of preaching"), printed 1467. > Exam's on Tuesday - please cross fingers for a question on printing! Good luck! -- Linda Sutherland linda.sutherland@zetnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:35:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Johnson or Carol De Boeck Subject: Re: First printed index Drawing on the Wellisch article cited by Larry Harrison, the first printed alphabetical subject index seems to have appeared in Fust and Schoeffer's edition of St Augustine, De arte praedicandi, published in Mainz, probably in the early 1460s. Peter Johnson Surrey Archives, BC ---------- > From: Christine Headley > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Fw: First printed index > Date: October 11, 1999 1:46 AM > > From Christine Headley > > I'm doing an Open University course called 'Culture and Belief in Europe > 1450-1600'. The course material covers the development of printing, etc, > and twice lists indexers along with the type-founders and compositors as > people who made books happen. > > Apart from the Index of Censored Books, which is a catalogue rather than an > index - it doesn't have sub-heads saying why the books are dangerously > subversive - does anyone know which book contained the first printed index? > > Exam's on Tuesday - please cross fingers for a question on printing! > > > Best wishes > Christine > > Christine Headley > Copyeditor and Indexer > Stroud, Glos > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:01:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: First printed index In-Reply-To: <04e6c5533170ba9CPIMSSMTPU10@email.msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, I think that that was the book that I saw a copy of at the (Cornell University) museum and mentioned in my post. The particular copy that they had there had been printed in Germany (the German script gave me problems) in the 15th century and had been in an Augustinian monastary there, and as I had mentioned had been on sermons. Makes me a little humble that I didn't have the foggiest of its indexing significance. I would be surprised if there were not pre-Gutenberg editions of Augustine which whether or not they have survived were produced with indices. Anyone know about manuscript indices? Good luck on test! Best, Marvant On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Peter Johnson or Carol De Boeck wrote: > Drawing on the Wellisch article cited by Larry Harrison, the first printed > alphabetical subject index seems to have appeared in Fust and Schoeffer's > edition of St Augustine, De arte praedicandi, published in Mainz, probably > in the early 1460s. > > Peter Johnson > Surrey Archives, BC > > ---------- > > From: Christine Headley > > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > Subject: Fw: First printed index > > Date: October 11, 1999 1:46 AM > > > > From Christine Headley > > > > I'm doing an Open University course called 'Culture and Belief in Europe > > 1450-1600'. The course material covers the development of printing, etc, > > and twice lists indexers along with the type-founders and compositors as > > people who made books happen. > > > > Apart from the Index of Censored Books, which is a catalogue rather than > an > > index - it doesn't have sub-heads saying why the books are dangerously > > subversive - does anyone know which book contained the first printed > index? > > > > Exam's on Tuesday - please cross fingers for a question on printing! > > > > > > Best wishes > > Christine > > > > Christine Headley > > Copyeditor and Indexer > > Stroud, Glos > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:05:35 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Query to Conventional Wisdom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A client has asked me whether it is necessary to get permission for quotations (with authors' names) she has used in her book at the beginning of chapters. My own opinion is that giving credit is sufficient. Any comments? Jean Middleton IndexEmpire Indexing Services http://www.indexempire.com Riverside, CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:22:53 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Query to Conventional Wisdom Comments: To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:05 PM 10/11/99 -0700, Jean Middleton wrote: >A client has asked me whether it is necessary to get permission for >quotations (with authors' names) she has used in her book at the >beginning of chapters. My own opinion is that giving credit is >sufficient. Any comments? Broadly, if the quotation falls within "fair use" limitations, she should be fine. Fair use in a situation like this would mean that the quote did not distill the essence of the work to the point where people would not want or need to read it on their own hook. If she quotes 300 words of a 1000-word newspaper story, that's probably beyond fair use. If she quotes one stanza of a 20-stanza poem, she's probably okay. Usually the quotes at the beginning of a chapter are quite short and almost never involve a serious risk of going beyond fair use. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:32:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Query to Conventional Wisdom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" On 10/11/1999 2:05 PM Jean Middleton wrote (in part): >A client has asked me whether it is necessary to get permission for >quotations (with authors' names) she has used in her book at the >beginning of chapters. My own opinion is that giving credit is >sufficient. Any comments? Right you are. It falls under the fair use doctrine. See CMS14 4.51 through 4.58 for a detailed explanation. In fact, they caution against asking permission in most cases because it might erode the fair use doctrine. hth, Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com http://lastword.home.mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:44:17 -0400 Reply-To: Nevermind@nospam.me Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Organization: Never. It spoils my system. Subject: Re: Query to Conventional Wisdom Comments: To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean Middleton wrote: > > A client has asked me whether it is necessary to get permission for > quotations (with authors' names) she has used in her book at the > beginning of chapters. My own opinion is that giving credit is > sufficient. Any comments? > > Jean Middleton > IndexEmpire Indexing Services > http://www.indexempire.com > Riverside, CA I believe you're correct. A single quotation from an author's work, properly credited, falls under the copyright "Fair Use" provision, which allows you to quote, or cite, passages. If it's an entire poem, or an entire essay, however, you DO need to get permission. -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" VISIT THE WORLD OF WHISLBABE: http://www.geocities.com/soho/square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:47:08 -0400 Reply-To: Nevermind@nospam.me Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Organization: Never. It spoils my system. Subject: Online library catalogues MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got a tip today from the Tip World service, to which I subscribe, which may be of interest to folks on this list. It follows below: According to some folks, information is power. Certainly it's true that having particular bits of info can let you flex your business muscles more easily. The trick lies in LOCATING the right information. A big help in locating just the right info is lib-web-cats, a resource maintained by Vanderbilt Library. It lets users locate Web sites for more than 4,000 libraries and online catalogs. You can search by institution name or by library type and location. With the advanced query form, you can specify more conditions in your search, including the automation system used. You'll find lib-web-cats at http://www.pcworld.com/r/tw/1%2C2061%2Ctw-soho9-18%2C00.html -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" VISIT THE WORLD OF WHISLBABE: http://www.geocities.com/soho/square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:19:02 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: s bodell Subject: Question about my first indexing job Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'm in the process of completing my first indexing job. I've found a few spelling errors in the text of the manuscript. I know the publisher is in a rush..the index for this 800 page book is due back Nov. 1. My question is: Do I alert the editor about the spelling errors or do I just do my job and let it go? I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Thanks in advance. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:45:03 +0100 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Publisher's virus In-Reply-To: <005f01bf131e$48c85b60$152579a5@hslib.washington.edu.hslib.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT D > Not all virus-checking software is created equal -- or updated regularly. > I recently received an attached file from an extremely reliable source, > which Dr. Solomon (one of the TWO virus checkers I have on my computer) > flagged as infected. I had trouble with my computer some time ago which was traced to the fact that I had two virus checkers on the computer, both running at the same time. Since they are doing much the same thing there is a likelihood that they will interfere with each other. I agree about the quality of virus checkers. As with most things you get what you pay for. It would be interesting to know which virus you had. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 13:48:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan McQuarrie Subject: Re: Question about my first indexing job MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's possible the editor already will have caught the errors, but I've always made it a practice when I find typos to include a note listing them with the index copy. I've never yet had an editor get their feelings hurt - at least no one ever said anything and I have always had good relationships with my editors. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com P.O. Box 15642 Seattle, WA 98115-0642 phone: 206-985-8799 fax: 206-985-8796 anderson@the-indexer.com http://www.the-indexer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: s bodell To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 1:19 PM Subject: Question about my first indexing job > I'm in the process of completing my first indexing job. I've found a few > spelling errors in the text of the manuscript. I know the publisher is in a > rush..the index for this 800 page book is due back Nov. 1. > > My question is: Do I alert the editor about the spelling errors or do I > just do my job and let it go? I don't want to step on anyone's toes. > > Thanks in advance. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 15:42:58 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Max Dalrymple Subject: Re: Publisher's virus Comments: To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF13FF.4B0D1500" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF13FF.4B0D1500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you everyone for responding to my question about viruses. It was the first time I faced the situation. The publisher took the document through McAfee (?!?) a couple of times and ignored my advice that he try the Norton website. He is convinced it couldn't be from his file, but he submitted three times and Norton detected the virus all three times. I especially want to thank those who suggested that I remind the publisher of the need to keep current. My Norton update is recent and I did not make that suggestion to the publisher in this case. I should have and will when I send him a submission. The name of the virus - and I suggest those with McAfee (I hope I'm remembering that correctly) might want to see if it is one caught by their software - is W97m.markera - It records a log of passwords and transmits it to a URL, if I've read the Norton description accurately. Last spring I lost my e-mail and then lost my digital camera and one hard disk. The digital camera port (USB) continues to not function. I suspect the e-mail and the hard disk losses were due to viruses. I've begun updating my files regularly and, since the volume of my e-mail recently increased, I have my hard disks checked daily at Norton's maximum level. I lost a month's work and do not intend to lose another's. -----Original Message----- From: J.R. Sampson To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 3:08 PM Subject: Re: Publisher's virus D > Not all virus-checking software is created equal -- or updated regularly. > I recently received an attached file from an extremely reliable source, > which Dr. Solomon (one of the TWO virus checkers I have on my computer) > flagged as infected. I had trouble with my computer some time ago which was traced to the fact that I had two virus checkers on the computer, both running at the same time. Since they are doing much the same thing there is a likelihood that they will interfere with each other. I agree about the quality of virus checkers. As with most things you get what you pay for. It would be interesting to know which virus you had. Regards _John Sampson_ ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF13FF.4B0D1500 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Max Dalrymple.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Max Dalrymple.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Dalrymple;Max FN:Max Dalrymple EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:publiclibrary@crosswinds.net REV:19991011T214257Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BF13FF.4B0D1500-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 18:28:37 -0400 Reply-To: Nevermind@nospam.me Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Organization: Never. It spoils my system. Subject: Re: Publisher's virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Max Dalrymple wrote: > Last spring I lost my e-mail and then lost my digital camera and one hard > disk. The digital camera port (USB) continues to not function. I suspect > the e-mail and the hard disk losses were due to viruses. I've begun > updating my files regularly and, since the volume of my e-mail recently > increased, I have my hard disks checked daily at Norton's maximum level. I > lost a month's work and do not intend to lose another's. Max: I have no idea exactly what happened to cause you to lose your camera port and your hard drive, but if you lost hardware function, the problem is not likely to be caused by a virus. It's more than likely a static-electricity problem, electrical fault, or power surge--or possibly even a lightning strike. I'm being awfully presumptious, I know, but I've been the 'victim' of both viruses and electrical faults. Viruses don't often render ports unusable. Electrical faults DO. And the weak, inefficient power surge protectors sold in most computer stores and other places, or the ones that come with your machines when you buy them, are rarely sufficient to protect anyone against true power surges. Is your machine sitting near or on a synthetic rug? Do you have animals, cats in particular? Is your home dry and the humidity level low? All these contribute to high incidence of static electricity, and static is DEADLY to ports and hard disks. I know. I've lost three. If this even MIGHT be your problem, your best solution is of course to get a decent grounded static mat to place under your computer and desk. These have a wire that actually attaches to a groudned outlet to protect your machinery against static. In the absence of that, you can always "ground out" before you use your computer: just keep a piece of aluminum foil nearby, and touch it before you sit down. I know it might sound silly, but it really does work. And investing in a good surge protector can save you lots of trouble also. Just a thought or two. -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" VISIT THE WORLD OF WHISLBABE: http://www.geocities.com/soho/square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:25:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: susanhernandez@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: Question about my first indexing job > >My question is: Do I alert the editor about the spelling errors or do >I >just do my job and let it go? I don't want to step on anyone's toes. > Sheila, I always tell the editor about errors I find - they are happy to get them since it adds to the quality of the book. I found that the easiest way to keep track of them is to highlight the error when I find it and mark the page. Then, when I send in the index, I pull out those pages and stack them together so the errors are easy to find. If I'm e-mailing the index, I have to list the errors in the message, which is a pain, but they always say "Thank you!" And, I know I've gotten repeat clients because I do this. - Susan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:15:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Proper names of things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, y'all, I am working on a book in which there are many names of tonics, oils, "natural" remedies, and other folk medicines. For example (and these are completely fictional): Dr. Snakeroot's Arthritis Powder, Mama Joy's Hair Tonic, Lovely Lady Skin Refresher. When indexing such items, is it common practice to italicize the names, or to simply capitalize them as I've done in this message? I can't seem to find names of THINGS handled in any of my indexing references. Thanks much for any and all help. Marcy Brown Wordsmith Services Delmont PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:40:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Past-due invoices, and copyright issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All of us have had problems collecting from one or another client at one time or another. Peter Rooney, in continuing the thread started by Craig Brown, brings up the issue of ownership of the copyright on the indexes we do. I am not a lawyer, but based on all that I have heard and read over the years on this issue, freelancers own the products of their labor. This is especially true in the case when we have not been paid for our work. When we agree to a "work for hire" contract for our work, the client owns the copyright in exchange for paying us for our labor. If they don't pay us, they can not claim to own what is still ours. The publishers and packagers can not have it both ways. They can not drag their feet in paying us and claim that they own the products of our work. I doubt if there is much, if any, case law on this. In Peter's case, he is probably better off just going to Small Claims Court for the uncollected bill rather than to Federal Court to enforce his copyright. In either case he is likely to get paid. You can be certain that the client would rather pay an outstanding bill for under $1,000 rather than hire a copyright lawyer to fight what would probably be a losing battle for them. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 22:49:37 -0500 magnetix@IX.NETCOM.COM writes: > How timely this discussion (started by Craig Brown) is for me. I have an invoice > over 4 months old, and have just mailed by certified letter my > formal demand for payment, stating that I will take legal > action if I'm not paid within 10 days of receipt of the > letter. (The author is on my side, by the way; they don't > answer his calls either!) > I'll probably go to Small Claims because the amount is > under $1000. However, if I hired an intellectual > property lawyer, I would consider making a novel claim: > Since my index is a significant and separate part of the > book, and since I haven't been paid for it, I still own > it (it is no longer a work-for-hire). Can I claim copyright > in it? Can I put a lien on the physical books? > (they are not yet in the stores). > Has anybody ever tested this line of argument? It > would surely strengthen my case (and all indexers' cases) > if a precedent could be found. > > > Peter Rooney > magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:39:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Past-due invoices, and copyright issue In-Reply-To: <19991011.225050.-172297.0.elinzer@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: If they don't pay >us, they can not claim to own what is still ours. The publishers and >packagers can not have it both ways. They can not drag their feet in >paying us and claim that they own the products of our work. What happens when a publisher includes a phrase in their contract that they have the right not to pay a contractor if they don't like the final index? I was off list for the week last week, so don't know all the ins and outs of this thread, but would be interested in knowing how to protect ourselves in this type of situation. As contractors, how can we protect ourselves when there is such a statement in the contract provided by the publisher? Willa (who took and developed my own black and white photographs for the first time at an Elderhostel last week and who may have a new addiction...and who may be using future ASI conferences as an excuse to pack a camera....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:38:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Proper names of things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcy: I would not italicize any names unless they are italicized in the text AND the editor wants them italicized. The only time I italicize in an index is if a word is that way in the title of a book, etc. Hope this helps. Rob -- Razorsharp Communications, Inc. Robert A. Saigh, President 6482 Lloyd Avenue Saint Louis, MO 63139-3445 314.781.4731 (voice/fax) fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:39:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Surge protectors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" On 10/11/1999 5:28 PM Christin Keck wrote (in part): >And investing in a good surge protector can save you lots of >trouble also. Great advice. My wife and I both use the same surge protectors on our separate systems. When a thunderstorm rolled through last week I unplugged everything including phone lines. She didn't. Later when she tried to log onto her ISP the modem appeared to be dead. During the elimination process that followed she learned that her surge protector, not the modem, had apparently taken a hit since the phone line circuit on it no longer worked. She's since bought a new surge protector, cheap price for the protection she got. We think the key to knowing when a surge protector is a good one is when they offer a guarantee to replace attached computer equipment, in this case for up to $10,000. Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@mindspring.com http://lastword.home.mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:56:46 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Now here's a goofy question, one I can't imagine why I never seriously considered before: When alphabetizing names in indexes, Jr. comes before Sr. alphabetically, but it seems that the Sr. should be listed first, due to seniority and having, literally, come first. --Comments?! Conventions? Strong opinions, dislikes? Please share! I'm working on an autobiography (of wonderful world-class yacht designer Olin J. Stephens II) and am facing alphabetizing several generations of names. Alphabetically I would get: Stephens, Olin J. II Stephens, Olin J. III Stephens, Olin J., Sr. Stephens, Rod, Jr. Stephens, Rod, Sr. But I am facing a temptation to sort 'chronologically': Stephens, Olin J., Sr. Stephens, Olin J. II Stephens, Olin J. III Stephens, Rod, Sr. Stephens, Rod, Jr. I suppose I could just drop the "Sr."s, too, though, and then I would definitely get the sort the way I want, but that doesn't seem right either? [NB: Olin J. II is the subject of the book, grandson of Olin J. Sr., son of Rod Sr. and younger brother of Rod Jr., father of Olin J. III.] TIA to all for your input, Pilar : ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:10:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marcy Brown Subject: Re: Proper names of things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rob, Much Thanks! This is what I had initially decided to do, but for some reason all those names in the final index just looked funny to me (not that italics look much better). But thanks for confirming my suspicions. Have a great day. Marcy Robert A. Saigh wrote: > Marcy: > > I would not italicize any names unless they are italicized in the > text AND the editor wants them italicized. The only time I italicize in > an index is if a word is that way in the title of a book, etc. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:13:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PilarW: I would put Junior first. There is no seniority in an index; there is only alphabetization. Rob -- Razorsharp Communications, Inc. Robert A. Saigh, President 6482 Lloyd Avenue Saint Louis, MO 63139-3445 314.781.4731 (voice/fax) fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:18:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Subject: Re: Surge protectors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Craig Brown wrote: Keck wrote (in part): > > >And investing in a good surge protector can save you lots of > >trouble also. > > Great advice. My wife and I both use the same surge protectors on our > separate systems. When a thunderstorm rolled through last week I > unplugged everything including phone lines. She didn't. Later when she > tried to log onto her ISP the modem appeared to be dead. During the > elimination process that followed she learned that her surge protector, > not the modem, had apparently taken a hit since the phone line circuit on > it no longer worked. She's since bought a new surge protector, cheap > price for the protection she got. > > We think the key to knowing when a surge protector is a good one is when > they offer a guarantee to replace attached computer equipment, in this > case for up to $10,000. Absolutely correct. What happened to your wife's modem happened to ours at work, also. Now when you dial in, you can't hear the modem "dialing" the phone. There's nothing that can be done about it, except to replace the entire modem card, which my headquarters will not do, since it hasn't actually stopped working--by this I mean that it connects, you just can't hear it connect. Some little transistor blew on the modem card--due entirely to static. We were lucky. It could have been another hard drive (we've lost 2) or our graphics or video cards (lost 1) or worse. (we had a monitor catch fire also.) THIS is why it's important to have surge protection! (and just for the record, NO, they STILL won't buy me a Surge Protector. Apparently they think it's easier to replace the equipment all the time.) -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" Visit the World of Whislbabe: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:55:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pilar, You might eliminate the weirdness of an unalphabetical sort by adding birth and death dates after the names, then putting the "same" names in date order. In CINDEX, you can mask the parts of the name you don't want considered and set the sort to consider numbers. That should get the names to sort in chronological order "correctly." It seems to me that whether someone is II or Jr. is somewhat a matter of individual practice, so there's an argument for sticking to chronological order for people with the same name. (Sometimes the father might be unnumbered or use Sr. But isn't this a matter of personal preference? Unlike kings, who become "I" when there is a later II with the same name . . .) Not sure what the rule might be about this, but I would argue that searchability should govern the sort order in this case, not mindless adherence to "strict alphabetical order." To sum up: if the names don;t look chronological, I would add the birth/death dates to clarify the point. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:08:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SageWords1@AOL.COM Subject: Merriam-Webster's "Word of the Day" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, For anyone interested in learning new words to add to their vocabulary (or to refresh their vocabulary!), I just discovered that Merriam-Webster's Web site offers a great e-mail service. After joining their mailing list, you will receive one e-mail per day containing a word with its definition, use in a sentence, and history. Their home page address is: http://www.m-w.com/home.htm When you reach the home page, just click "Word of the Day" at the left of the page. Debbie Graf Sage Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:17:45 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SageWords1@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pilar, To quote Nancy Mulvany (page 163-164 of "Indexing Books"): "Even though, in the kennel name listings ("names with suffixes") above, the names are not in strict alphabetical order, a consistent method has been used to arrange the names so that dogs with the same kennel name ("names with suffixes") are gathered together ("in a clear way"). Furthermore, a good indexer will have placed a headnote to the index explaining the arrangement conventions." I think indexers should do what is LOGICAL and CLEAR for the user of the index. With a good headnote explanation, as Nancy suggests, there should be no problem for the user. Debbie Graf Sage Words Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:39:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Snedrow@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Pilar, A quick search of my reference books turned up a few guidelines. In Indexes: Writing, Editing, and Production, Thatcher specifies numerical order for names that occur in a series (II, III) and chronological order when seniority is known (Sr., Jr.). In Indexing from A-Z, Wellisch shows a sequence with numerical order for names that occur in a series and says that numerals should be arranged before letters in sorting. The New York Public Library Writers Guide to Style and Usage specifies numerical order for names that occur in a series and says that numerals should precede letters in sorting (II, III, Jr.). I couldn't find specific guidelines on order in Mulvany's Indexing Books. Maybe someone else was able to? As for anecdotal evidence, I have one client who specifies numerical order for names that occur in a series and asks that names followed by suffixes be arranged chronologically (Sr., Jr., III). I would be inclined not to remove the Sr. but to follow the text, and I do prefer the chronological sort. Does your client have a preference? Thanks for an interesting question! Sue Nedrow ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:31:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: small claims, importance of indexes In-Reply-To: <19991011.225050.-172297.0.elinzer@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re small claims court, I'm still not clear on what you do if you're in one state, and the client is in another, maybe very far away. Also, does anyone recall a discussion about a survey or article or something on why having an index is so important and what impact it has on the sale of a book? A friend needs to convince an author to have an index. I can't remember if there was a discussion, and if so, how to retrieve it, or an article in KeyWords, maybe? TIA, Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:40:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing In-Reply-To: <0.68c735f7.253497ea@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cohen and others are right. I have relatives and friends who consider Jr and Sr to be relative (no pun intended) terms, so that when a son came of age the father would start calling himself Sr around the son but still be called junior by his father. My best friend in high school appended Jr III to his name, which in upper class southern circles was acceptable though he was only the third of his name. Marvant On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 BECohen653@AOL.COM wrote: > Hi Pilar, > > You might eliminate the weirdness of an unalphabetical sort by adding birth > and death dates after the names, then putting the "same" names in date order. > In CINDEX, you can mask the parts of the name you don't want considered and > set the sort to consider numbers. That should get the names to sort in > chronological order "correctly." > > It seems to me that whether someone is II or Jr. is somewhat a matter of > individual practice, so there's an argument for sticking to chronological > order for people with the same name. (Sometimes the father might be > unnumbered or use Sr. But isn't this a matter of personal preference? Unlike > kings, who become "I" when there is a later II with the same name . . .) > > Not sure what the rule might be about this, but I would argue that > searchability should govern the sort order in this case, not mindless > adherence to "strict alphabetical order." > > To sum up: if the names don;t look chronological, I would add the birth/death > dates to clarify the point. > > Barbara E. Cohen > Indianapolis, IN > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:02:30 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Re: Past-due invoices, and copyright issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Willa MacAllen To: Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Past-due invoices, and copyright issue > What happens when a publisher includes a phrase in their contract that they > have the right not to pay a contractor if they don't like the final index? > > I was off list for the week last week, so don't know all the ins and outs > of this thread, but would be interested in knowing how to protect ourselves > in this type of situation. > > As contractors, how can we protect ourselves when there is such a statement > in the contract provided by the publisher? I wouldn't sign such a contract. We're running businesses too, so we are certainly in a position to renegotiate around such an absurd stipulation. Regards, Homer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:44:45 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Snedrow@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Importance of indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rachel, Someone (I don't remember who it was, but thank you for posting it) recently posted to the list a link to an article on About.com by Lillian R. Rodberg. The article title is "The Index as Marketing Tool" and it can be found in the technical writing articles section at wysiwyg://9/http://techwriting.about.com/ Also, the Sep/Oct 1997 issue of Keywords had good articles on publicity (by Janet Perlman) and on selling publishers on indexes (by George O. Neumann, Mary G. Neumann, and Diane Worden). Finally, have you seen the brochures available from ASI to inform authors and publishers about the importance of good indexes? They are a great resource! Sue Nedrow ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:12:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: small claims, importance of indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rachel Rice asks "Re small claims court, I'm still not clear on what you do if you're in one state, and the client is in another, maybe very far away." Small Claims Courts have jurisdiction only in the state they are located in. Collecting from an out-of-state client can be a real problem. You can use the regular civil courts, but you will probably need a lawyer to press your case there. You can also use a collection agency to attempt to collect the money owed you for a cut of what is collected. I'm sure that any collection agent would be willing to explain to you what they can and can not due without charging you a fee for the conversation. Good luck. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:44:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pilar writes about the problem of alphabetizing names within a family which contain "Jr.," "Sr.," "II," and "III." What I do in this situation is first, obviously, keep individuals with the same first and last names together. Then put them into chronological order. I don't know how every indexing program works but I assume that all have the capability to insert non-printing characters that are used for sorting only. I would insert a non-printing "," "" and "" in the appropriate locations to have them sort out correctly: Stephens, Olin J. ,Sr. Stephens, Olin J. ,II Stephens, Olin J. ,III Stephens, Rod , Sr. Stephens, Rod , Jr. In cases where you have same name for unrelated people, I go with using their birth and death dates in parentheses. I actually had this happen in a history text book. We have James Watt, the inventor of the steam engine and James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of the Interior: Watt, James (1736-1819), 241 Watt, James (19__- ), 829 [I don't have his actual dates handy. I queried the editor on this.] I hope this answers your question. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:16:48 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: small claims, importance of indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have rental property so, unfortunately, I've been in the position of collecting an judgment out-of-state. You don't need a lawyer to do this. You file in the small claims court which has jurisdiction over the area where the work was done (this is most likely your local small claims court). Once you receive a judgment (which will probably be a default judgment since the out-of-area client isn't likely to show up) you can file the paperwork for a sister state judgment. The sister state is, of course, the state where your client resides. After you receive the sister state judgment it can be executed against the client. I once had a renter who made a "profession" out of being a problem renter. He would live in a place for so long and then decide to not pay rent until he was evicted and then more to another area. We later found out that he had done this numerous time and we were just one more notch on his belt. He was a merchant marine so considered himself to be judgment proof due to the Soldiers and Sailors Act (this is nothing against merchant marines, it's just this one who was a deadbeat). It made me so mad that I went to the library and called up court clerks until I found out how to proceed and then went for it. Our judgment went through the municipal court system but it would be the same for the small claims system. I ended up getting every single penny, plus interest, that he owed us, over $6,000. This was over twelve years ago but I believe that the procedures are the same. The paper work can be gotten from the court clerks of both states and can be executed without a lawyer. It does take some research, but hey! we're indexers right? What can't we research successfully? Bottom line, I bet that deadbeat renter thought twice before pulling that on another unsuspecting landlord and the same thing would go for a deadbeat publisher. Best, Sylvia Coates -----Original Message----- From: Elliot Linzer To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 6:21 PM Subject: Re: small claims, importance of indexes > Rachel Rice asks "Re small claims court, I'm still not clear on what you >do if you're in one state, and the client is in another, maybe very far >away." > Small Claims Courts have jurisdiction only in the state they are located >in. > Collecting from an out-of-state client can be a real problem. You can >use the regular civil courts, but you will probably need a lawyer to >press your case there. You can also use a collection agency to attempt >to collect the money owed you for a cut of what is collected. I'm sure >that any collection agent would be willing to explain to you what they >can and can not due without charging you a fee for the conversation. > Good luck. > > >| Elliot Linzer >| 43-05 Crommelin Street >| Flushing, New York 11355 >| (718) 353-1261 >| elinzer@juno.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:38:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Roos Subject: Re: Importance of indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My computer froze when attempting that URL. Can anyone explain why? Barbara Roos In a message dated 10/12/1999 9:54:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Snedrow@AOL.COM writes: > Someone (I don't remember who it was, but thank you for posting it) recently > posted to the list a link to an article on About.com by Lillian R. Rodberg. > The article title is "The Index as Marketing Tool" and it can be found in > the > technical writing articles section at > > wysiwyg://9/http://techwriting.about.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:52:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Monica Smersh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I may have an opportunity to index manuals for a software company where my husband works. Any advice on how to charge? I generally prefer to bill at an hourly rate, what is the current market for technical indexing? Also, is there any special training I need? Anything unique to technical indexing beyond the terminology, and how much do I need to know about the product in order to be able to index software manuals? Thanks for your help! Monica Smersh ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:53:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Huerster, Robert" Subject: Thesauri and indexing I edit a thesaurus and do indexing for an organization that publishes in several media. One question I am considering is how best to use the thesaurus to produce a print index in the magazine, descriptors for a full-text database, and a proposed Yahoo-like "browseable" search interface for an Intranet. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has tackled a similar project. Thanks. Bob Huerster huerro@consumer.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:58:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Snedrow@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Importance of indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Barbara and all, Whoops! I seem to have steered you wrong on the link for the Rodberg article on About.com re. indexes as marketing tools. Here is a better route, cut and pasted from the site. I just tried the link, and it may be slow (depending on your modem) but it gets you there. Sorry for the confusion:) confusion:) http://techwriting.about.com/arts/writepub/techwriting/library/weekly/aa081299.htm Sue Nedrow ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:45:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carroll Smith Subject: Re: Importance of indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try: http://techwriting.about.com/arts/writepub/techwriting/ This will take you to About.com, then select: The Underappreciated Art of Indexing Netscape 4.61 accepted the URL below but yours may not. cas Barbara Roos wrote: > My computer froze when attempting that URL. Can anyone explain why? > > Barbara Roos > > In a message dated 10/12/1999 9:54:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > Snedrow@AOL.COM writes: > > > Someone (I don't remember who it was, but thank you for posting it) recently > > posted to the list a link to an article on About.com by Lillian R. Rodberg. > > The article title is "The Index as Marketing Tool" and it can be found in > > the > > technical writing articles section at > > > > wysiwyg://9/http://techwriting.about.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:07:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SharonSims@AOL.COM Subject: Bargain 1998 LMP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am in the process of marketing my indexing business, and got the chance to attend an Old Book Sale this past weekend that is held annually by our public library. I love going to this sale and browsing for hours. I purposed to look for some reference books I might be able to use for my indexing business, and was excited to find a copy of the 3rd edition of Words Into Type AND the two-volume set of the 1998 LMP directory. I know that Words Into Type will be a good addition to my general resources, but I was just wondering how much use the LMP will really be for me, or will it be too "dated" for marketing? I mean, these books were really bargains at just $1.00 each so I didn't think I could go too wrong! Does publisher information change that much from year to year? Just wondering, Sharon Sims ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:30:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Query to Conventional Wisdom In-Reply-To: <199910120401.AAA27172@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree with what others have said about fair use. I just wanted to add that in my role as an indexer, I'd be loathe to answer questions of legality. If an author asked me that, I'd refer him or her back to the editor at the Press. If an *editor* asked me that (perish the thought), I'd suggest he or she check with the Press's legal dept. I don't mind sticking my neck out on editing questions, but I wouldn't do so for legal questions, even if I think I know the answer. Perhaps the safest thing here would be to refer the author to the proper section in CMS; let the author draw his or her own conclusions. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:30:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Proper names of things In-Reply-To: <199910120401.AAA27172@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am working on a book in which there are many names of tonics, oils, >"natural" remedies, and other folk medicines. For example (and these are >completely fictional): Dr. Snakeroot's Arthritis Powder, Mama Joy's Hair >Tonic, Lovely Lady Skin Refresher. When indexing such items, is it >common practice to italicize the names, or to simply capitalize them as >I've done in this message? I can't seem to find names of THINGS handled >in any of my indexing references. No, for ordinary proper names, you simply cap them, as you've done. Only a few things get italicized: titles of books, paintings, long poems, and movies; ships; and I forget what else. But even simpler, you should just follow the style used in your text. If it isn't italicized in the text, don't italicize it in the index. If I thought the text handled something incorrectly (e.g., book titles in quotes rather than italicized), I'd query it, but I'd still follow the style of the text. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My indexer@execpc.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer new Web address to come ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:44:55 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Bargain 1998 LMP In-Reply-To: <0.554cd00b.25350b18@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: >wondering how much use the LMP will really be for me, or will it be too >"dated" for marketing? I mean, these books were really bargains at just >$1.00 each so I didn't think I could go too wrong! Does publisher >information change that much from year to year? > >Just wondering, >Sharon Sims > I think it'll still be useful for you for several years. I have a copy dated 1996 that I've used every summer since 1997. It's an excellent starting point for getting names. I'm surprised you found it for $1.00. Whoever sold it at that price didn't know the value of the publication. :) Willa (looking forward to changing seasons....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:34:14 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Indexing names of Songs and Musical Bands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi everyone, I am indexing a book on Dean Martin and in this book there are lots of names of songs which have been listed with quotations marks. The book also lists lots of names of musical bands which appeared on Dean Martin Show in 1960's. I have not heard of some of the names of the musical bands. I have checked the Internet movie net database for verifying about the names of these bands and I have not gotten much help. So my questions are..... 1....does anyone know if there is any web site which lists the names of the musical bands/groups? For example, the author is talking about "New Christy Minstrels" in quite detail in the first chapter of the book. I do not have a clue if this is a name of musical band/group which appeared on Dean Martin Show. 2....I used to think that song names are italicized for indexing. But the author has not italicized these names. Instead he has shown them with quotation marks. So what is the standard practice for indexing song names? Any help would be appreciated. MANJIT K. SAHAI ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:19:09 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing names of Songs and Musical Bands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Manjit: Song titles in quotation marks. Album (LPs) and CD and musical production titles in italics. New Christy Minstrels is the name of a band. Index under "N." (Am I the only one who feels old knowing this band?) Index bands as they appear in the text and query the author to check the correct names. Indexers shouldn't have to re-research the book in order to prepare the index. If the full names aren't recoverable, the author will know. If only one or two were missing, I might try to look them up, but if there were a significant number, I would query the editor before proceeding too far. (You might check some book indexes of other books about music of the time period to see how the titles were handled. I just finished working on some books in a series called "MusicHound guides" that have pretty detailed listings. We were handed a long list of sort-order rules for keying in the band titles. They are fairly complicated to sort out, given how they mostly deviate from what appear to be standard patterns. When in doubt, the best rule is to stick to a strict alpha uninverted order unless you have some specific knowledge that causes you to invert the main performer's name.) Don't invert names of bands that are called after the prominent member, but invert the names of individuals. Use cross-references as much as necessary to help out the uninitiated. I would perhaps do this: Cave, Nick. SEE Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds if I thought people might be confused about the correct band name. Or if Nick Cave had a solo career or played with a lot of different bands. A lot depends on how well the individual performers are known musically, as opposed to the band as a whole. In other words, I wouldn't index Beatles' material under the individual members names, but I would cross-reference their solo careers (separate entries) with a "See also" to The Beatles, with the exception of individually identified songwriters . . . Although in a book about a TV show, I might not index the songwriters unless they were the singer-songwriters who appeared on the show. Hope this helps. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:45:41 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tree Bressen Subject: Re: Indexing names of Songs and Musical Bands In-Reply-To: <19991013013414.27227.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Manjit, >2....I used to think that song names are italicized for indexing. But the >author has not italicized these names. Instead he has shown them with >quotation marks. So what is the standard practice for indexing song names? The author is following standard practice, as should you. Italics are used for stand-alone publications such as books, periodicals, and record albums, while quotation marks are used for pieces within these wholes such as individual poems, songs, or titles of articles. Good luck, --Tree ------------------------------------------------------ Tree Bressen 2244 Alder St. Eugene, OR 97405 (541) 343-5023 tree@ic.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 01:53:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing names of Songs and Musical Bands In-Reply-To: <199910130405.AAA14313@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >For example, the author is talking about "New Christy Minstrels" in quite >detail in the first chapter of the book. I do not have a clue if this is a >name of musical band/group which appeared on Dean Martin Show. New Christy Minstrels was indeed the name of a musical group. I don't know whether they appeared on Martin's show. I'm wondering, though, why you are checking all the names. Did the client hire you to do fact checking? I don't know what other indexers out there are doing, but I verify names only when I see something that looks wrong. Otherwise I leave it as the responsibility of the author and the editor. > >2....I used to think that song names are italicized for indexing. But the >author has not italicized these names. Instead he has shown them with >quotation marks. So what is the standard practice for indexing song names? I believe using quote marks is the standard practice. In any case, I would follow the style of the text. Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:51:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Kansas-Missouri group - reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Fall meeting of the Kansas-Missouri group of ASI: Saturday, October 23, 1999, 10:00 am Spencer Art Reference Library, Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art 4525 Oak St., Kansas City, Missouri Topic: Periodical indexing Please let me know by Oct. 20 if you are planning to attend (and whether you will join us for lunch.) If you would like more information, contact me as well. Hope to see you there, Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Indexing services * Lawrence, Kansas * Publicity Committee Chair, * 785-841-3631 * American Society of Indexers ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:00:03 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you everyone, for your feedback. I have decided to sort the names both chronologically and alphabetically by not including "Sr." in my subjects' names. One indexer emailed me privately and confirmed that "Sr." is not actually part of people's names (The first is still the first, but the son is the first, Jr. and when the first one dies, his widow becomes Mrs. first, Sr.), but is used to differentiate generations. This further supports what some of you posted yesterday, and my earlier suspicions. So I've got: Stephens, Olin J. Stephens, Olin J. II Stephens, Olin J. III (Olie) Stephens, Rod. Stephens, Rod, Jr. I should also point out that I have learned that "II" can be used for any first namesake, not only for the son. As I said yesterday, Olin J. II is the grandson of Olin J., but the first to be named after him, so he got the "II" suffix. Rod, Jr. is the first son of Rod (son of Olin J.), so he got the "Jr." suffix. Olin J. II and Rod, Jr. are brothers. Interesting. Well, back to it -- oh, also: did you know that these guys, the designers of many world-class racing yachts, including _Freedom_ and other Dennis Conner and Ted Turner yachets, also designed amphibious vehicles?! Remember those things that came ashore D-Day?! -- amazing the stuff we get to learn in our day-to-day work, no?! (As much as I enjoy Barbara Pym's novels, I do sometimes wish her portrayals of us indexers showed a bit more, of the joy we get from our work! I don't find this cumbersome, that's for sure!) happy indexing, Pilar ge ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:39:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Melinda Davis Organization: Univ. of Tennessee College of Law Subject: Another daily e-mail word source In-Reply-To: <0.6acd05ff.25349ad4@aol.com> A.Word.A.Day is another daily e-mail word source--you can subscribe from their website: www.wordsmith.org. There is a theme each week that the words relate to; for instance, this week the words have to do with family relationships. Melinda Melinda D. Davis Assistant Professor and Catalog Librarian College of Law Library University of Tennessee 1505 W. Cumberland Avenue Knoxville, TN 37996-1800 (423) 974-6552 (423) 974-6571 (fax) e-mail: davis@libra.law.utk.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:49:02 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pilar, Many thanks for great clarification of a natty problem. I'd forgotten the argument about II's not necessarily being the same as the first son of a Sr. Oh, the esoterica we enjoy. I am currently indexing a book with some similar sort order problems, but the authors and editors have consistently used "Sr." to indicate the elder name. Would you advocate leaving off the Sr. in the index even if the authors have used it in the text? Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jane Zander Subject: Re: ASI Kansas-Missouri group - reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mary-- Saw your message and thought this would be a good time to check in. Everything is going well from here. I have been in touch with security--just need the names of all attendees from you on 10/20 but one or two extra won't matter, we'll cope. Have also nailed down arrangements for coffee and tea service at 9:30am. Will also be able to give you a short tour of the library--given by either the Head Librarian, Susan Moon, the Reference Librarian, Jeff Weidman, or me, the Senior Cataloger, Jane Zander. I'll get donuts early that morning and we have a couple of tables reserved upstairs in Rozelle Court for lunch around noonish. My volunteer, Marsha Carothers, a librarian at UMKC School of Denistry, will be assisting me in our little presentation on the NAMA Bulletin index. All for now--let me know if you need anything else... Your friend and colleague, Jane Zander ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 8:51 AM Subject: ASI Kansas-Missouri group - reminder > The Fall meeting of the Kansas-Missouri group of ASI: > > Saturday, October 23, 1999, 10:00 am > Spencer Art Reference Library, Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art > 4525 Oak St., Kansas City, Missouri > > Topic: Periodical indexing > > Please let me know by Oct. 20 if you are planning to attend (and whether you > will join us for lunch.) If you would like more information, contact me as > well. > > Hope to see you there, > Mary > -- > * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com > * Indexing services * Lawrence, Kansas > * Publicity Committee Chair, * 785-841-3631 > * American Society of Indexers > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:01:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: citation indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI, I could use some advice. I have a good client. They publish really good books and they look good on my resume, they pay a decent rate for a normal index, they pay on time, BUT I almost always end up loosing money (over working for other clients) because of the amount of time I spend on citation indexes. The last time I spoke with an editor, she hinted that other indexers are charging the University more. It sounded like they were charging by the name. (Really??) I tried bumping my rate on this one, but she said its already as high as the authors could go. I certainly don't want to be hired because I'm a less expensive indexer. 8-/ How do you all charge for additional indexes. Things like citations or botanical or zoological organisms or genes? The citations seem to run around 20 per page for these books. I have the system as automated as I can make it, but they still take as almost as much time as indexing the subject matter. (I wish I could add a surcharge for tedium) If you could give me some idea of how you charge for additional indexes, in general, and citations in particular it would help. Off-line replies are fine. I'm working on designing the salary survey for ASI for this Spring. Your replies would also give me an idea of how to pose this question to that membership so we could have the response from a broader audience next June. (Sample questions are welcome too) Thanks Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:57:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: S Sweeney Subject: Re: ASI Kansas-Missouri group - reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mary, I'm not sure if I confirmed my attendance or not. I will be there and will stay for lunch. Looking forward to the meeting. Thanks, Sharon Sweeney MaryMort@AOL.COM wrote: > The Fall meeting of the Kansas-Missouri group of ASI: > > Saturday, October 23, 1999, 10:00 am > Spencer Art Reference Library, Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art > 4525 Oak St., Kansas City, Missouri > > Topic: Periodical indexing > > Please let me know by Oct. 20 if you are planning to attend (and whether you > will join us for lunch.) If you would like more information, contact me as > well. > > Hope to see you there, > Mary > -- > * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com > * Indexing services * Lawrence, Kansas > * Publicity Committee Chair, * 785-841-3631 > * American Society of Indexers ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:04:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marlene London Subject: Re: ESOTERICA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With reference to Pilar's comment on the stuff we learn in our daily work, the following is from my current project (in my words): Pompey the Great had several wives and lovers. One lover in particular claimed that she never left his embraces without his teeth marks all over her body. One day a friend of his made a move on her, and she declined because of her loyalty to Pompey. So the fellow asked Pompey directly and got an affirmative reply. Pompey subsequently dumped her! Marlene London Profindex@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:30:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Subject: Re: citation indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sharon, By my calculation, I can make the same hourly rate on citation indexes as on subject indexes for about .75 to 1.00/pg. So I make sure to get that amount extra when I am doing a book with a citation index. This would put the page rate for the whole project around $4.00 pg. I don't charge by the name, but it enters into my calculations. At 20 refs per page, that's pretty dense. I don't think that anyone can break even on those for less than $1.50 or even $2.00 pg. It then becomes part of doing business, I guess. When you say you are losing money, do you mean on the whole project or on the citation component? As long as the whole project is around your average, I'd think you could live with that. I could anyway, since these tend to be bigger checks. Hope this helps./Dan ================================ Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:01 PM Subject: Re: citation indexes > HI, > I could use some advice. I have a good client. They publish really good > books and they look good on my resume, they pay a decent rate for a normal > index, they pay on time, BUT I almost always end up loosing money (over > working for other clients) because of the amount of time I spend on citation > indexes. > The last time I spoke with an editor, she hinted that other indexers are > charging the University more. It sounded like they were charging by the > name. (Really??) I tried bumping my rate on this one, but she said its > already as high as the authors could go. I certainly don't want to be hired > because I'm a less expensive indexer. 8-/ > How do you all charge for additional indexes. Things like citations or > botanical or zoological organisms or genes? The citations seem to run around > 20 per page for these books. I have the system as automated as I can make > it, but they still take as almost as much time as indexing the subject > matter. (I wish I could add a surcharge for tedium) > If you could give me some idea of how you charge for additional indexes, in > general, and citations in particular it would help. Off-line replies are > fine. > I'm working on designing the salary survey for ASI for this Spring. Your > replies would also give me an idea of how to pose this question to that > membership so we could have the response from a broader audience next June. > (Sample questions are welcome too) > Thanks Sharon > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:20:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Good index Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, I just read by Anne Fadiman (daughter of Clifton Fadiman) and thoroughly enjoyed the book. Obviously she did extensive research, and wrote a fascinating book about a tragic story, managing to include (painlessly to the reader) the history of the Hmong. The book has extensive back notes AND A GREAT INDEX. Has anyone else read it and does anyone know who did the index for her and Noonday Press in New York? I'd love to hear more about good indexes people have come across! J. Naomi Linzer: Indexing Services POB 1341 459 Redway Drive Redway, CA 95560-1341 Phone: (707) 923-4361 fax: (360) 838-5620 jnlinzer@saber.net ****************************************************************************** http://www.asindexing.org <-- American Society of Indexers website. ****************************************************************************** s ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:50:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Subject: Re: ESOTERICA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marlene London wrote: > > With reference to Pilar's comment on the stuff we learn in our daily work, > the following is from my current project (in my words): > > Pompey the Great had several wives and lovers. One lover in particular > claimed that she never left his embraces without his teeth marks all over > her body. One day a friend of his made a move on her, and she declined > because of her loyalty to Pompey. So the fellow asked Pompey directly and > got an affirmative reply. Pompey subsequently dumped her! She's lucky she stayed alive after he dumped her-- most of those ancient mistresses and lovers were victims not of Pompey, but of Circumstance. (ow!) -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" Visit the World of Whislbabe: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:59:48 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Roos Subject: Re: Importance of indexes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sue and Carroll, Thanks! Those worked smoothly. Barbara In a message dated 10/12/1999 3:04:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Snedrow@AOL.COM writes: > Subj: Re: Importance of indexes > Date: 10/12/1999 3:04:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: Snedrow@AOL.COM > Sender: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU (Indexer's Discussion Group) > Reply-to: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU (Indexer's Discussion Group) > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > To Barbara and all, > > Whoops! I seem to have steered you wrong on the link for the Rodberg > article > on About.com re. indexes as marketing tools. Here is a better route, cut > and > pasted from the site. I just tried the link, and it may be slow (depending > on your modem) but it gets you there. Sorry for the confusion:) > > > confusion:) http://techwriting.about.com/arts/writepub/techwriting/library/ > weekly/aa081299.htm > > > Sue Nedrow > > In a message dated 10/12/1999 3:07:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cas@DIGITAL.NET writes: > Subj: Re: Importance of indexes > Date: 10/12/1999 3:07:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time > From: cas@DIGITAL.NET (Carroll Smith) > Sender: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU (Indexer's Discussion Group) > Reply-to: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU (Indexer's Discussion Group) > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > Try: http://techwriting.about.com/arts/writepub/techwriting/ > This will take you to About.com, then select: The Underappreciated Art of > Indexing > Netscape 4.61 accepted the URL below but yours may not. > cas > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:01:31 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Question about my first indexing job In-Reply-To: <19991011.172810.11582.2.susanhernandez@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I keep an email window open and type errors in as I go. I always ask in the first letter if the editor would like to receive them. I couldn't not do it. The main thing I find is inconsistencies, and these can affect the choice of wording in the index (eg brain stem or brainstem). Glenda > >My question is: Do I alert the editor about the spelling errors or do > >I > >just do my job and let it go? I don't want to step on anyone's toes. > > > > Sheila, > > I always tell the editor about errors I find - they are happy to > get them since it adds to the quality of the book. > > I found that the easiest way to keep track of them is to highlight > the error when I find it and mark the page. Then, when I send in the > index, I pull out those pages and stack them together so the errors are > easy to find. If I'm e-mailing the index, I have to list the errors in > the message, which is a pain, but they always say "Thank you!" > > And, I know I've gotten repeat clients because I do this. > > > - Susan > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:01:40 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Another daily e-mail word source In-Reply-To: <199910131540.LAA14149@mailhost.cas.utk.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agghh, the last thing I need is MORE email! Glenda. > A.Word.A.Day is another daily e-mail word source--you can subscribe > from their website: www.wordsmith.org. There is a theme each week > that the words relate to; for instance, this week the words have to > do with family relationships. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:13:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tree Bressen Subject: Re: Publishers' rates In-Reply-To: <19991007072650.087fbc0e.in@mail.louisa.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, Paula wrote: >Only rarely has an indexer told me what a >particular publisher pays them. I know I rarely do so myself. I suppose >part of that is that I think other indexers might "underbid" me, and part >of it is that I have this idea that I'm not supposed to tell. The idea that one is not supposed to tell how much money one makes does seem rather widespread, but it's not one i subscribe to personally. I openly disclose how much money i make at anything i do to anyone who asks, and i frequently ask friends how much they're earning, especially when they start a new job of some kind. For me the concept of not disclosing pay is associated with management strategies aimed at keeping workers down, which is definitely not something i want to support. (I imagine Paula is not surprised to hear this view from me, given our common association with income-sharing communes!) However, i read the points you raised and of course there are, with this as with other topics, a variety of points of view. Cheers, --Tree ------------------------------------------------------ Tree Bressen 2244 Alder St. Eugene, OR 97405 (541) 343-5023 tree@ic.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 02:16:50 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Phyllis Linn Subject: Re: LMP bargain Sharon, congratulations on your library sale coup! $1 for the '98 LMP is right up there with my yard sale find of a $500 industrial strength wheat grass juicer for $5! Savor the moment! I recently made a cursory comparison of my '97 version with a current one in the library and the only difference I noted was the lack of URLs in mine. The volume of Words into Type is pretty wonderful as well (currently about $40 at B & N) The force is clearly with you! Phyllis Linn INDEXPRESS email:phyllislinn@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 03:39:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing In-Reply-To: <0.17ea2b25.2535f873@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:00 AM 10/13/99 EDT, Pilar wrote: >Thank you everyone, for your feedback. > >I have decided to sort the names both chronologically and alphabetically by >not including "Sr." in my subjects' names. One indexer emailed me privately >and confirmed that "Sr." is not actually part of people's names (The first is >still the first, but the son is the first, Jr. and when the first one dies, >his widow becomes Mrs. first, Sr.), but is used to differentiate generations. >This further supports what some of you posted yesterday, and my earlier >suspicions. > >So I've got: >Stephens, Olin J. >Stephens, Olin J. II >Stephens, Olin J. III (Olie) >Stephens, Rod. >Stephens, Rod, Jr. > And at 11:49 AM 10/13/99 EDT, Barbara replied: >Many thanks for great clarification of a natty problem. . . . > >I am currently indexing a book with some similar sort order problems, but the >authors and editors have consistently used "Sr." to indicate the elder name. >Would you advocate leaving off the Sr. in the index even if the authors have >used it in the text? > Thanks from me too, Pilar. Barbara, how 'bout this incorporation of "Sr." in the index when it's used consistently in the text? Stephens, Olin J. (Sr.) (sorting "(" ahead of any other character) Stephens, Olin J. II Stephens, Olin J. III (Olie) Stephens, Rod (Sr.) Stephens, Rod, Jr. Also, Pilar, there's another case to take into account: a "Jr." instead of a "II" who's followed by a "III", as in, say Stephens, Olin J. (Sr.) Stephens, Olin J., Jr. Stephens, Olin J. III (Olie) Stephens, Rod (Sr.) Stephens, Rod, Jr. and what interests me in this case is the sorting issue. I think all persons with the same last name should be gathered together by stopping the first round of alphabetization on the comma after the last name (which sorts all of the above Stephens together ahead of, say, "Stephens Publishing", as recommended by CMS for letter-by-letter sorts and as most helpful too, I believe, in word-by-word sorts), and by following the same procedure -- stopping the next round of alphabetization on the next comma (in this case the comma after "Olin J." and before "Jr.") -- we can still "sort the names both chronologically and alphabetically". Moreover, we can set up our indexing programs to do this without our having to sort the names individually (that is, I know we can set up Macrex to do this and I presume we can do the same in CINDEX and Sky Index). Michael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:10:03 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Subject: Re: Good index In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good morning all: > >Has anyone else read it and does anyone know who did the index for her and >Noonday Press in New York? > > Funny you should ask this question. I just heard the author of THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO SHERLOCK HOLMES lecture at an evening program at my church last nite. I had a chance to look at the index to the book afterwards. It was so well done and highlighted the recent thread regarding how to index fictional characters. For instance, this index indicated when a character in the book was from a Sherlock Holmes story or from the Bible or another source. I wondered if someone on the list indexed the book. no credit was given to anyone other than the author in the front matter, but I thought the index really illustrated well the discussion on this list. Willa (looking forward to the usual Thursday nite contra dance....) Willa MacAllen Information Organizer MacAllen's Information Services Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:32:47 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: small claims, importance of indexes Very good, you guys! You got it! It's called "long-arm jurisdiction" and the process is basically the same in most of the states. Your mileage may vary, but as I said earlier, your friendly local court clerk can tell you. Always make friends with the court clerk, by the way-- they can really help you do a lot! > -----Original Message----- > From: Sylvia Coates [SMTP:scoates@RCN.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:17 AM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: small claims, importance of indexes > > We have rental property so, unfortunately, I've been in the position of > collecting an judgment out-of-state. > > You don't need a lawyer to do this. > > You file in the small claims court which has jurisdiction over the area > where the work was done (this is most likely your local small claims > court). > Once you receive a judgment (which will probably be a default judgment > since > the out-of-area client isn't likely to show up) you can file the paperwork > for a sister state judgment. The sister state is, of course, the state > where > your client resides. After you receive the sister state judgment it can be > executed against the client. > > I once had a renter who made a "profession" out of being a problem renter. > He would live in a place for so long and then decide to not pay rent until > he was evicted and then more to another area. We later found out that he > had > done this numerous time and we were just one more notch on his belt. He > was > a merchant marine so considered himself to be judgment proof due to the > Soldiers and Sailors Act (this is nothing against merchant marines, it's > just this one who was a deadbeat). It made me so mad that I went to the > library and called up court clerks until I found out how to proceed and > then > went for it. Our judgment went through the municipal court system but it > would be the same for the small claims system. > > I ended up getting every single penny, plus interest, that he owed us, > over > $6,000. This was over twelve years ago but I believe that the procedures > are > the same. The paper work can be gotten from the court clerks of both > states > and can be executed without a lawyer. > > It does take some research, but hey! we're indexers right? What can't we > research successfully? > > Bottom line, I bet that deadbeat renter thought twice before pulling that > on > another unsuspecting landlord and the same thing would go for a deadbeat > publisher. > > Best, > Sylvia Coates > > -----Original Message----- > From: Elliot Linzer > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Date: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 6:21 PM > Subject: Re: small claims, importance of indexes > > > > Rachel Rice asks "Re small claims court, I'm still not clear on > what you > >do if you're in one state, and the client is in another, maybe very far > >away." > > Small Claims Courts have jurisdiction only in the state they are > located > >in. > > Collecting from an out-of-state client can be a real problem. > You > can > >use the regular civil courts, but you will probably need a lawyer to > >press your case there. You can also use a collection agency to attempt > >to collect the money owed you for a cut of what is collected. I'm sure > >that any collection agent would be willing to explain to you what they > >can and can not due without charging you a fee for the conversation. > > Good luck. > > > > > >| Elliot Linzer > >| 43-05 Crommelin Street > >| Flushing, New York 11355 > >| (718) 353-1261 > >| elinzer@juno.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:05:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Jr.'s vs Sr.'s -- alphabetizing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/14/1999 12:29:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Barbara Cohen wrote: > Would you advocate leaving off the Sr. in the index even if the authors have > used it in the text? Oh, this is a toughy. I looked carefully in the text before I decided to eliminate it. (This is the situation I faced, as well.) Only once I had confirmed, to my satisfaction, that "Sr." was being used only to differentiate did I feel okay about eliminating it in the index. I found instances where only one person was the subject and "Sr." was not included after the name. This, in my mind, supported the argument that "Sr." had been used merely to differentiate from "Jr." or II or III. Again, Martin Luther King, Jr.'s father's name is "Martin Luther King," not "Martin Luther King, Sr.," even though we may refer to him with the latter form. As you said, the author is using it to indicate the elder's name. In the index, however, we can list the names alphabetically and elegantly such that the elder gets seniority. (Mind you, I've not heard back from the client yet. And I will be happy to include ", Sr." after the appropriate names if they so want. But I won't change the order of the names, I think. I should also add that I included ", Sr." in my draft version of the index, to help me edit conceptually.) phew! my goodness, how thes seemingly small questions and issues can yet have so much weight and meaning! ;-D happy indexing, Pilar L. Pilar Wyman WYMAN INDEXING Annapolis, MD 410-757-7119 PilarW@aol.com Great Indexes for Great Books ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:52:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SharonSims@AOL.COM Subject: Re: LMP bargain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Martha, Willa, and Phyllis for your words of encouragement about my recent old book sale "finds". Now I feel even better about my bargain hunting! So now here comes the not so fun part -- actually USING the LMP to do some marketing. Guess I better get busy. ;-) Thanks again, Sharon Sims ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:18:21 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Herzog Subject: Re: Another daily e-mail word source MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I loved the Merriam Webster Word of the Day. I have subscribed both myself and my daughter to the youngsters version. Thanks Pamela ----- Original Message ----- From: Melinda Davis To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:39 PM Subject: Another daily e-mail word source > A.Word.A.Day is another daily e-mail word source--you can subscribe > from their website: www.wordsmith.org. There is a theme each week > that the words relate to; for instance, this week the words have to > do with family relationships. > > Melinda > Melinda D. Davis > Assistant Professor and Catalog Librarian > College of Law Library > University of Tennessee > 1505 W. Cumberland Avenue > Knoxville, TN 37996-1800 > (423) 974-6552 > (423) 974-6571 (fax) > e-mail: davis@libra.law.utk.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:51:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: Recent article on indexing in Tampa Tribune In-Reply-To: <199910140405.AAA18066@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have received several messages this week from people who read "an article in the Sunday paper [Tampa Tribune, Oct 10?], primarily featuring Sandi Shroeder, President of ASI." The article apparently described indexing in an appealing way as several people wrote to me requesting information about my indexing video. I'd be interested in seeing this article. If anyone could mail or fax me a copy, please email me directly. Thanks, Susan Susan Holbert --- 781-893-0514 "Basic Indexing Skills" video Boston-area workshop October 30 http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:51:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: Upcoming Basic Skills workshop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Susan Holbert will give a one-day Boston-area workshop, "Basic Indexing Skills," on Sat. October 30. The course includes lots of indexing practice and discussion as well as information on how to find clients, market services, and negotiate fees and schedules. For more information email me, see my Web site, or feel free to call, 10-4 eastern time. Susan Holbert --- 781-893-0514 "Basic Indexing Skills" video Boston-area workshop October 30 http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:38:19 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If subheadings are to be arranged alphabetically, what is the best way of wording them? Should the key word comes first, or can the word used for alphabetical sorting be an arbitrarily chosen word? Let me explain what I mean by way of an example. Let us say that Joseph Bloggs, a university professor, is mentioned in a book as (1) being appointed vice-chancellor, (2) banning the student newspaper _Vertigo_, (3) performing magnificently as the Ghost in a summer Shakespeare production of _Hamlet_, (4) taking part in veteran marathons, and (5) going to Cambridge as an official guest at some function or other. And that there are 24 or 36 other subheadings, but these five will do for our example. Which formulation and which arrangement of subheadings do you prefer among the following, and why? A: Bloggs, Joseph appointed vice-chancellor bans _Vertigo_ takes role in _Hamlet_ veteran athlete visits Cambridge B: Bloggs, Joseph athletic prowess Cambridge visit as Ghost in _Hamlet_ and _Vertigo_ vice-chancellor C: Bloggs, Joseph as vice-chancellor marathon runner official guest at Cambridge performs in _Hamlet_ _Vertigo_ banning D: Bloggs, Joseph and Cambridge and _Hamlet_ and running and _Vertigo_ vice-chancellor And it wouldn't be hard to devise three or four more variations. Please don't discuss the details in your reponse to the list, but I would be very interested to know what principles or guiding rules people follow in order to try to make it easy for the reader to find the right place in a long alphabetical sequence of subheadings. Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:38:23 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Publishers' rates MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tree Bressen wrote: > Hello, > > Paula wrote: > >Only rarely has an indexer told me what a > >particular publisher pays them. I know I rarely do so myself. I suppose > >part of that is that I think other indexers might "underbid" me, and part > >of it is that I have this idea that I'm not supposed to tell. > > The idea that one is not supposed to tell how much money one makes does > seem rather widespread, but it's not one i subscribe to personally. I > openly disclose how much money i make at anything i do to anyone who asks, > and i frequently ask friends how much they're earning, especially when they > start a new job of some kind. For me the concept of not disclosing pay is > associated with management strategies aimed at keeping workers down, which > is definitely not something i want to support. (I imagine Paula is not > surprised to hear this view from me, given our common association with > income-sharing communes!) > > However, i read the points you raised and of course there are, with this as > with other topics, a variety of points of view. > > Cheers, > > --Tree > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Tree Bressen > 2244 Alder St. > Eugene, OR 97405 > (541) 343-5023 > tree@ic.org Tree, I heartily agree with you. While it is not our neighbor's business how much we make, those in the same industry should be aware of what they are worth! Companies have always wanted us to keep our salaries secret for their own benefit. Many years ago a new editor arrived at our company. Unaware of the policy of silence about salaries, she proclaimed what she made. I was shocked since I was making several thousand dollars less and had many more years of experience in the field. In fact, she was basically a trainee! I went to my supervisor, who sheepishly gave me a raise. I was always thankful to that novice who "didn't know the rules." Jean Middleton IndexEmpire Indexing Services http://www.indexempire.com Riverside, CA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:29:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robert Brod Subject: ASI-Wisconsin Chapter, Fall Conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last reminder for this conference: No registrations can be accepted after Tuesday, Oct. 19! American Society of Indexers, Wisconsin Chapter Fall Conference 1999 Featured Speaker: Maria Coughlin "Editing the Index: Basic Principles, and Specific Applications to Medical and Scientific Indexes" Saturday, October 23 8:30 a.m. - 1:30 pm Lake Lawn Resort 2400 East Geneva St. Delavan, WI 53115 262-728-7950 www.lakelawnresort.com This participatory workshop focuses on the basic principles of editing an index and includes an editing "practicum," an opportunity for participants to edit an actual index draft. This practice session will be followed by discussion of the nitty gritty of medical and scientific editing conundrums, which are applicable to a broad range of indexing projects. Participants are encouraged to bring examples of editing problems, so that the group can benefit from tackling them. Following the workshop, we will break into groups for roundtable discussions during lunch. The roundtable topics and facilitators are as follows (please indicate your preference on the form below): Kay Wosewick: writing resumes Barbara Littlewood: getting work Sally Albertz and Edith Ericson: indexing genealogy Carol Roberts: negotiating with clients Conference Schedule: 8:30 to 9:00 am: Check-in 9:00: Maria Couglin, "Editing the Index: Basic Principles and Specific Applications" 12:00: Lunch and roundtable discussions The morning session will include refreshments and a short break. Lunch is a Southwestern buffet, including both meat and vegetarian dishes. Maria Coughlin has been indexing for more than 15 years. Her subject specialties are medicine (clinical practice books, textbooks, manuals, etc.), biology, and physiology. She currently has an indexing business that employs seven associate indexers. She has served ASI locally and nationally in various capacities for a total of 5 person-years, and looks forward to meeting both indexers and editors at her workshop. REGISTRATION: Postmarked by 10/9/99: $45 for ASI members; $50 for non-members Postmarked after 10/9/99: $55 for ASI members; $60 for non-members No registrations can be accepted after 10/19/99. Space is limited. Name: __________________ Address:________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________ Daytime phone:____________________________ E-mail:___________________________________ Roundtable preference: 1st choice:________________________________ 2nd choice:________________________________ 3rd choice:________________________________ Please return check (payable to Wisconsin Chapter-ASI) and this form to Carol Roberts, 1908 E. Edgewood Ave., Shorewood, WI 53211. You may cancel your reservation up until Friday October 15, and receive a full refund. ACCOMODATIONS AND DIRECTIONS Lake Lawn Resort, on 275 lakeside acres, is a year-round destination and conference resort. Conference participants may want to stay for part of the weekend to enjoy the facilities, which include a pool, golf, miniature golf, tennis, softball, basketball, sand volleyball, video game room, trail rides, petting farm, fishing, boating, shopping, and massage therapy. To make your arrangements please contact Lake Lawn Resort at 262-728-7950. Directions: >From Milwaukee: I-43 southwest to Highway 50. Hard left on Highway 50 (east) for 1 mile. >From Madison: I-90 east to Janesville. Highway 14 S (turns into Highway 11) to Delavan. At first stop light in Delavan, turn right onto 7th St. Lake Lawn is approximately 2 more miles on your right, after the Geneva Lake. >From O'Hare Airport: I-94 north to Highway 50 (Kenosha exit). Turn left (west) onto Highway 50. Lake Lawn is approximately 45 minutes from I-94 and 8 miles west of Lake Geneva Kennel Club. For more information, please contact Mary Brod, 262-784-0372, or rbrod@execpc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:38:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elliot Linzer Subject: Small Claims Court MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was prepared to eat my words regarding using Small Claims Courts to sue an out-of-state client. Sylvia Coates and I have had an exchange of letters off-list over this issue and I called the Small Claims Court for Queens County, New York. It looks like I won't have to eat my words. In New York State, and probably in other states, you can not use Small Claims Courts against out-of-state defendants. That's what I was told by one of the clerks I spoke with earlier today. Sylvia's case (1) did not really involve an out-of-state party and (2) was not generalizable to the sort of freelancer-client case in issue here. Sylvia's case was a standard landlord-tenant dispute. Both parties started off as residents of the same state, California. Her "deadbeat renter" owned property in Nevada, so she wanted her California judgment enforced in Nevada. Sylvia suggestion of getting a "sister-state judgment" from the civil court where the defendant is located is valid. The problem is that when you are trying to take an action against an out-of-state defendant, the Small Claims Court is likely to send you to the Civil Court for your county. Often it is easy to win your case in Small Claims Court and difficult to collect after your victory. Usually, the clerks for the Small Claims Court or for the country Sheriff's Office or Marshall can help you with collections (Believe it or not, each Borough [county] in the City of New York has a Sheriff. There is also a City Marshall. I can never remember the jurisdiction of each, but both exist to collect debts.). If the client you are suing is one of the giant publishers, the case is likely to be settled before the court appearance. On the other hand, if you are suing a tiny publisher or book packager, they may have little or no assets, so they may feel that it is in their advantage to lose by default and force you to collect. By that time they may be bankrupt or have vanished without going through any formal legal procedures. In my 28 years of freelancing, I have resorted to the Small Claims Court only five times. Only once was a case contested and I had to actually show up in court to defend my position. The other four were settled, in one case only hours before the scheduled court appearance. Most of the cases involved the client holding back on paying me. | Elliot Linzer | 43-05 Crommelin Street | Flushing, New York 11355 | (718) 353-1261 | elinzer@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:10:16 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sendx@AOL.COM Subject: Slow invoices and Small Claims Court MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: I had a favorable outcome using an attorney in the Boston area who took the publisher to small claims court there. (His cut was one third, and it took a few months, but it was better than nothing, and he was very nice and encouraging.) If anybody needs someone to do handle a collection in MA let me know and I'll send you his name. I'd also be interested in knowing if anybody has worked with attorneys or collection agencies in other states whom they would highly recommend. I'd like to keep a file. Thank you. Anita Levy Space Coast Indexers, Inc. 1101 S. Atlantic Avenue #401 Cocoa Beach FL 32931 407-536-8431 scndx@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:26:15 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Organization: the-indexer.com Subject: Re: Recent article on indexing in Tampa Tribune MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I'd be curious too - I got three requests in one day from people who had read the article and wanted to know how to find more information. Interestingly enough, they said they found me on the Web - and they were all AOL customers. I referred them to the ASI page. Charles Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Holbert To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 12:51 PM Subject: Re: Recent article on indexing in Tampa Tribune > I have received several messages this week from people who read "an article > in the Sunday paper [Tampa Tribune, Oct 10?], primarily featuring Sandi > Shroeder, President of ASI." > > The article apparently described indexing in an appealing way as several > people wrote to me requesting information about my indexing video. > > I'd be interested in seeing this article. If anyone could mail or fax me a > copy, please email me directly. > > Thanks, > > Susan > > Susan Holbert --- 781-893-0514 > "Basic Indexing Skills" video > Boston-area workshop October 30 > > http://www.abbington.com/holbert > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:27:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Blee811@AOL.COM Subject: Re: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit B: Bloggs, Joseph athletic prowess Cambridge visit as Ghost in _Hamlet_ and _Vertigo_ vice-chancellor My vote as a reader and an indexer. The others would annoy me as a reader. Bill Lee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:24:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan McQuarrie Subject: Re: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The examples given (in the explanatory paragraph) all appear to bear what the Chicago Manual of Style calls a grammatical as well as a logical relationship to the main heading, that is, they do not appear to be simply logical subdivisions of the main heading. Therefore, I would lean towards sub-entries that expressed this grammatical relationship clearly, probably A or D. I tend to verbalize aloud problem entries to see how they sound. Of course, if this isn't a biography of Bloggs, it seems over-analyzed. Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com P.O. Box 15642 Seattle, WA 98115-0642 phone: 206-985-8799 fax: 206-985-8796 anderson@the-indexer.com http://www.the-indexer.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Cauchi To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 1:38 PM Subject: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings > If subheadings are to be arranged alphabetically, what is the best way of > wording them? Should the key word comes first, or can the word used for > alphabetical sorting be an arbitrarily chosen word? Let me explain what I > mean by way of an example. > > Let us say that Joseph Bloggs, a university professor, is mentioned in a > book as (1) being appointed vice-chancellor, (2) banning the student > newspaper _Vertigo_, (3) performing magnificently as the Ghost in a summer > Shakespeare production of _Hamlet_, (4) taking part in veteran marathons, > and (5) going to Cambridge as an official guest at some function or other. > And that there are 24 or 36 other subheadings, but these five will do for > our example. > > Which formulation and which arrangement of subheadings do you prefer among > the following, and why? > > A: Bloggs, Joseph > appointed vice-chancellor > bans _Vertigo_ > takes role in _Hamlet_ > veteran athlete > visits Cambridge > > B: Bloggs, Joseph > athletic prowess > Cambridge visit > as Ghost in _Hamlet_ > and _Vertigo_ > vice-chancellor > > C: Bloggs, Joseph > as vice-chancellor > marathon runner > official guest at Cambridge > performs in _Hamlet_ > _Vertigo_ banning > > D: Bloggs, Joseph > and Cambridge > and _Hamlet_ > and running > and _Vertigo_ > vice-chancellor > > And it wouldn't be hard to devise three or four more variations. > > Please don't discuss the details in your reponse to the list, but I would > be very interested to know what principles or guiding rules people follow > in order to try to make it easy for the reader to find the right place in a > long alphabetical sequence of subheadings. > > Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:44:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ilana Kingsley Subject: ASI web site mail server In-Reply-To: <0.3e2b328c.2537b2b5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The mail server for the ASI web site is being changed. Consequently, mail sent to webmasters@asindexing.org and info@asindexing.org will bounce. We will let you know when the mail server is working again. --Ilana Kingsley ASI Co-Webmaster inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu // indexpup@indexpup.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:34:37 -0400 Reply-To: Jeanne Moody Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The and, and, and... arrangement is very boring. I was taught to put "and" at the end of a subentry if possible, but I understand that may be a matter of American vs.. British usage. Otherwise, try to put the important word first (or at least second if you need a prefatory word like as, by, in, etc.). If I were doing this index today, my subentries probably would be a mix of the ones you have in options B and C, and tomorrow it would be a slightly different mix with some variations of my own. Try to think what the book's intended readers would be most likely to find useful. If the list of subentries is short and easily scanned, the exact wording is not quite as important as it is in a lengthy list of subentries. That is not a justification for sloppiness, just for avoidance of undue agonizing in the decisionmaking process. Jeanne Moody ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:48:29 -0400 Reply-To: Nospam@mymailbox.concentric.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christin Keck Organization: All the time. It's my job. Subject: Re: ASI web site mail server MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ilana Kingsley wrote: > > The mail server for the ASI web site is being changed. Consequently, mail > sent to webmasters@asindexing.org and info@asindexing.org will bounce. We > will let you know when the mail server is working again. > > --Ilana Kingsley > ASI Co-Webmaster > inewby@beryl.ils.unc.edu // indexpup@indexpup.com How weird--I got this email JUST as I was writing one to the list asking about why my email to the web site bounced! Well, now I know! -- CK, or as they say in Spain, "Yes, what?" VISIT THE WORLD OF WHISLBABE: http://www.geocities.com/soho/square/4033/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:49:00 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jmazefsky@AOL.COM Subject: ASI New York Chapter Workshop - Saturday, 11/13: hold the date! Comments: To: ASI-L@onelist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do Mi Stauber will be giving her workshop, Facing the Text, on Saturday, November 13, at the Midtown Executive and Chemists' Club in NYC. Exact details will follow in a couple of days. We're also in the process of sending out announcements. If you are not an ASI member or are a new member (we may not have a label for you yet) and would like to receive one please contact Janet Mazefsky (jmazefsky@aol.com) or Kevin Broccoli (broccoli@bim.net). Janet ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:56:55 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings Comments: To: jcmoody@monad.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jean, I agree with you absolutely. As an indexer and a reader, I hate to see subentries starting with 'and'. Somehow it looks strange. Just my opinion. MANJIT >From: Jeanne Moody >Reply-To: Jeanne Moody >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Re: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings >Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:34:37 -0400 > >The and, and, and... arrangement is very boring. I was taught to put "and" >at the end of a subentry if possible, but I understand that may be a matter >of American vs.. British usage. > >Otherwise, try to put the important word first (or at least second if you >need a prefatory word like as, by, in, etc.). > >If I were doing this index today, my subentries probably would be a mix of >the ones you have in options B and C, and tomorrow it would be a slightly >different mix with some variations of my own. Try to think what the book's >intended readers would be most likely to find useful. If the list of >subentries is short and easily scanned, the exact wording is not quite as >important as it is in a lengthy list of subentries. That is not a >justification for sloppiness, just for avoidance of undue agonizing in the >decisionmaking process. > >Jeanne Moody ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:17:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Re: How best to word alphabetically arranged subheadings I am embarking upon the indexing of a multi-volume work , part of which was indexed by the author. He invariably put his "ands" at the beginning. I indexed one volume a year ago and tried to follow his usage so that the indexes would all have the same style. But I find myself balking at doing it in this year's volume. After consulting the editor, I may move all the "ands" to what I think of as their proper location: behind the important words, not in front of them. Paula Durbin-Westby