Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9903C" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:51:49 +1100 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: automated indexing (database indexing) In-Reply-To: > I think automated indexing has the potential to work where the amount of > information in the knowledge base and the amount of information > in the item > to be indexed are large enough to allow statistical methods a > good chance to > work. This is much more likely with database indexing than with book > indexing. Following this, here's an interesting speculation: imagine, at some future date, an indexing program that has access to all the material on the Internet, including all the text and all the indexes that have (by then) made their way on to it. When the program is given some text to index it doesn't try to 'understand' it, it simply finds the most closely matching paragraphs or sentences in text already on the Internet, looks for the index terms (if any) that were used for those, and reproduces those in the new index that it is building. In one sense the program is very 'stupid' in that it needs to know nothing about the text it's indexing. (Its programmer may not even speak the same language!) On the other hand it's extremely clever, because it's drawing on the accumulated wisdom of thousands of human indexers. Obviously there are many ways in which it could be improved or even 'learn' from experience. Some results from this sort of crossover between humans and machines can be seen in the newer search engines at http://www.google.com and http://www.directhit.com. Both of these draw on other people's decisions to help predict the needs of a new searcher looking for information. Jon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:28:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Career path At 11:02 AM 3/12/99 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 99-03-12 07:29:17 EST, Wooflberry@AOL.COM writes: ... Am I marketable? ... >> - Lisa Schulz, St Louis > >Unfortunately, a library school class in indexing and abstracting will not >teach you to actually do indexing. At least if it's anything like the class I >taught at Dominican University (formerly Rosary College). The class focussed >on theoretical background for indexing and abstracting, such as exhaustivity, >consistency, specificity, without covering how to do indexing. > >I would suggest taking the USDA course or an introduction to indexing course, >which is taught through a number of continuing education programs around the >country, such as the University of Chicago's Publishing Program. > >Fred Leise >Between the Lines Indexing and Abstracting > > I must also throw in my 2cents worth. I was lucky enough to land a job as an indexer fresh out of Columbia University Library School because I had a "knack." I concentrated library school courses in cataloging and classification and took an indexing course. I tested and landed a job with Public Affairs Information Service in New York. http://www.pais.org/ I indexed and abstracted. I had a social science background. I lived in New York. But they do hire freelancers; you could try that. If you have foreign language skills that would be a plus! M. Jessie Barczak Washington, D.C. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:54:48 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: automated indexing I think the first thing that will be automated is Name Index creation in Social Science texts (perhaps other areas as well?). Direct references are set off by open parens, with a comma separating units within. The lookup file--References--can be tricky to navigate, but should be do-able. Indirect references (using pronouns in subsequent refs) are more difficult and might need manual entry. Any thoughts on this? Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:57:50 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: automated indexing Oops. Just came across the flaw in my theory. Citations don't usually have all authors listed if more than 3. Hmmm. Need more coffee...brain not properly tuned. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:50:10 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: automated indexing On 3/15/1999 2:54 AM Dan Connolly wrote (in part): >I think the first thing that will be automated is Name Index creation in >Social Science texts (perhaps other areas as well?). Direct references are >set >off by open parens, with a comma separating units within. The lookup >file--References--can be tricky to navigate, but should be do-able. Indirect >references (using pronouns in subsequent refs) are more difficult and might >need manual entry. > >Any thoughts on this? Aside from the flaw you caught later on, there is another: spelling. It's really difficult for a copy editor to catch all the spelling errors in names. I think a lot of production editors rely on indexers to catch name spelling errors. It's another area where it will be difficult for software to emulate human activity. For example, I see the name J. Bartok in chapter 3 and J. Bartak in chapter 5. Spelling error? Maybe, maybe not. So far, fuzzy logic can keep up. I look at the bibliography. There is only a Bartak, J. But now I'm suspicious. Could it be Bartok misspelled in two places? I query the editor who queries the author and eventually learn that it really is Bartok. Some day a computer might handle that kind of activity but I don't think it will happen soon. For one thing, software in the past has been rather rude about telling humans a mistake has been made. There are prejudices to overcome. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:57:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, CRTT" Subject: (1)INDEXER CERTIFICATION THROUGH ASI & (2) INDEXER AS "AUTHOR" Dear Indexers, My professional background is medical administration. As a new and eager indexer, I have two burning questions which have not yet been answered or even addressed in any of the several books I have studied. I have not seen anything about them in the Index-L discussions until today when one indexer made mention of her authorship being included when she reviewed (on the Net) a text her son co-authored. Her review included her index. FIRST, the professional literature I have been studying to learn indexoing qualifies indexers as "authors", per se, due to our work being a significant form of "writing" within the book we have indexed. Why don't publisher's note the authorship of the index in the book, most properly at the beginning of the index we AUTHOR? Is it up to us to begin and encourage this practice with our clients/publishers? Of course, I realize one would NOT want authorship if the index is edited AFTER SUBMISSION without the indexer's input. But with authorship as a GIVEN, should this ever come about, then the editing MUST BE DONE by the indexer; another positive feature of authorship. I look forward to hearing opinions on this issue. SECOND, what do you all think of CERTIFICATION through a basic skills test given through ASI so that newbies like myself would at least have this under their belt when marketing for work? Certified in our field, we could add C.ASI, Or A.S.I.C., or C.I., or some such qualifier after our name which would indicate to publishers that this indexer has passed the basic skills test and is worth trying. Basic skills certification in a professional field as untapped and unguided as ours is one way to assist new indexers in learning good indexing, as well as increasing the professionalism of the field. Now that the ASI is looking to become INTERNATIONAL through alliance with other countries' professional indexing groups, it seems a certification might be one way to better qualify and encourage training through-out the profession, with ASI leading the way. Perhaps the certification should be international in its qualifying for those of you who work for foreign publishers. Would it be helpful for foreign publishers to see the certification after an indexer's name when they are deciding whether to hire that indexer - or not? Certification does not inhibit or limit the free-lance spirit, but simply increases the quality of the profession. I realize there is a USDA course, but not all of us will/can have that on our resume letter. Self-study via Mulvany, Chicago Manual of Style and other beau coup professional articles/books on indexing, as well as the use of video courses, are also excellent training/preparation for indexing work. If one does not have a librarian background, or a degree in literature, etc., or perhaps no degree above high school, this testing for basic skills would help qualify one in the field as it necessarily becomes more competitive. If one wants to specialize in medical indexing, or some other sub-specialty, then there could also be a sub-certification for each specialty; i.e., basic medical terminology test, etc. I am very interested in thoughts from both new and seasoned indexers on both questions - authorship & certification. Ardith in Virginia, DC Chapter of ASI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:00:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: South Central Chapter/ASI Embedded Indexing Workshop At 08:15 PM 3/11/99 -0600, you wrote: >The South Central Chapter of the American Society of Indexers is pleased to >announce our Spring Meeting/Workshop, "Embedded Indexing and Electronic >Documents," to be held on Saturday, April 10, 1999 at the Radisson Hotel & >Suites Dallas, 2330 Northwest Highway, Dallas, TX 75220. Is there any chance a similar workshop will be held in the Washington, D.C. area in the near future? Many thanks, "The details of my life are inconsequential." M. J. Barczak detailed in Washington, D.C. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: (1)INDEXER CERTIFICATION THROUGH ASI & (2) INDEXER AS "AUTHO R" 1) Indexers as authors. Some indexers are already given credit for their work, but that varies from publisher to publisher and is something the individual indexer has to work out with their clients. Some will be more willing to go along with it than others. 2) Certification. Ardith, you obviously only recently joined the list, because this is a huge can of worms that was "discussed" rather passionately only a couple of months ago. I will only say that there are strong feelings on both sides and will admit that I am against the idea. One of my main objections is that the cost of developing, implementing, monitoring and maintaining a certification program would be an administrative nightmare and is far more than an organization staffed solely by volunteers should try to take on. I have other objections, but we'll leave it at this one for now! :-) -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:09:36 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: (1)INDEXER CERTIFICATION THROUGH ASI & (2) INDEXER AS "AUTHOR" In a message dated 99-03-15 10:51:50 EST, you write: << SECOND, what do you all think of CERTIFICATION through a basic skills test given through ASI so that newbies like myself would at least have this under their belt when marketing for work? Certified in our field, we could add C.ASI, Or A.S.I.C., or C.I., or some such qualifier after our name which would indicate to publishers that this indexer has passed the basic skills test and is worth trying. >> 8-) This is a very well discussed topic. There must be volumes of discussion in the INDEX-L archives on certification. Both ASI and the British Society members have discussed this over and over. The British have a volunteer system in place. My personal view on this is: Can you expect a volunteer organization, that often has trouble meeting its own deadlines, to set up and manage a certification process that would impact your professional career? Things are working pretty well without interference. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:28:07 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Spern Subject: Re: Learning to index Pam: I received the fed ex package. That information is going to be very useful for these new technical writers. Thank you very much. I will be at ASI in June. I hope to meet up with you there. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:52:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Spern Subject: Indexing Check List Indexers: I was recently asked by a publisher friend if there was a set of qualifications for professional indexers. Talk about stirring up a hornet's nest! I do vaguely remember discussion a while ago about a check list of some sort when creating and hiring for indexes. I can't remember the specifics. Does anyone know about such a checklist? Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:09:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: South Central Chapter/ASI Embedded Indexing Workshop Regarding the below: We're having an all-day conference in NYC that will include a presentation on "Pageless Indexing" from Seth Maislin. It will provide practical advice on different modern indexing subjects such as an introduction to embedded index- ing, experiences working w/ search engines, and an introduction to XML and how it can shape the very definition of indexing Other presentations include: *Medical Indexing- Frances Lennie, Maria Coughlin, & Alexandra Nickerson *Periodical Indexing- Dorothoy Thomas *"The Changing Faces of the Publishing Industry"- Nan Fritz, of "nSight". The date is May 8, 1999... More info will be posted regarding this at a later date. Meanwhile, for any interested parties, please contact me @ brocindx@in4web.com Kevin Broccoli -----Original Message----- From: M. Jessie Barczak To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 10:49 AM Subject: Re: South Central Chapter/ASI Embedded Indexing Workshop >At 08:15 PM 3/11/99 -0600, you wrote: >>The South Central Chapter of the American Society of Indexers is pleased to >>announce our Spring Meeting/Workshop, "Embedded Indexing and Electronic >>Documents," to be held on Saturday, April 10, 1999 at the Radisson Hotel & >>Suites Dallas, 2330 Northwest Highway, Dallas, TX 75220. > >Is there any chance a similar workshop will be held in the Washington, D.C. >area in the near future? > >Many thanks, > > >"The details of my life are inconsequential." >M. J. Barczak >detailed in Washington, D.C. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:35:26 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Indexing Check List Hi Karen, I recently gave a workshop about hiring an indexer. If you send me your snail- mail address (you can send it to me by private e-mail), I will send you a copy of the checklist I created as a handout for the workshop. (I won't be abl;e to send it immediately, but I could get it to you within the next week or so.) I don't know how much you will make of it, since it focuses on the questions to ask (the answers were my presentation), but after you've looked it over, if you have specific questions, I could try to tackle them with you. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:54:57 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: South Central Chapter/ASI Embedded Indexing Workshop >Is there any chance a similar workshop will be held in the Washington, D.C. >area in the near future? One approach to this question: get involved with the DC chapter and help make the workshops you're interested in happen! (I can't help myself, I'm feeling kinda platitudinous..."If you want something done right...."; "Ask not what your country can do for you..."; and of course, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.") (That last was shamefully lifted from someone's sig on this list -- thank you!) I'm afraid I may be feeling entirely too giddy for a Monday morning... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:32:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: dinner Karen is not available on Friday April 23 to have dinner here. But, she can do the week before on Friday night. Since that's also the day of the ministerial lunch here, I prefer not to plan on cooking dinner as well, so we'll do take-out or go for Chinese food somewhere. (Unless I get very ambitious, or unless there's a low response for the luncheon and it's cancelled.) Karen's a little tough to cook for as she follows a special diet sometimes. Karen is looking forward to seeing you. I guess she didn't know Doraleen that well, so let's keep it to the three of us on the 16th, and D can visit the 23rd, if you and she want to arrange that between you. B ********************** Barbara Stroup, Indexer 30 Spruceland Avenue, Springfield, MA 01108 413 785-1835 e-mail indexa2z@the-spa.com **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:35:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: xx Karen is not available on Friday April 23 to have dinner here. But, she can do the week before on Friday night. Since that's also the day of the ministerial lunch here, I prefer not to plan on cooking dinner as well, so we'll do take-out or go for Chinese food somewhere. (Unless I get very ambitious, or unless there's a low response for the luncheon and it's cancelled.) Karen's a little tough to cook for as she follows a special diet sometimes. Karen is looking forward to seeing you. I guess she didn't know Doraleen that well, so let's keep it to the three of us on the 16th, and D can visit the 23rd, if you and she want to arrange that between you. p.s. you will be amused to know that I just broadcast this message to the 500 subscribers to Index-L by mistake...their address is just above yours in my quick list. There may be lots of people for dinner that night.********************** Barbara Stroup, Indexer 30 Spruceland Avenue, Springfield, MA 01108 413 785-1835 e-mail indexa2z@the-spa.com **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:35:34 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup please don't all come to dinner. ********************** Barbara Stroup, Indexer 30 Spruceland Avenue, Springfield, MA 01108 413 785-1835 e-mail indexa2z@the-spa.com **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: xx At 02:35 PM 3/15/99 -0800, you wrote: >Karen is not available on Friday April 23 to have dinner here. But, she can do > the week before on Friday night. Since that's also the day of the ministerial > lunch here, I prefer not to plan on cooking dinner as well, so we'll do > take-out or go for Chinese food somewhere. (Unless I get very ambitious, or > unless there's a low response for the luncheon and it's cancelled.) Karen's a > little tough to cook for as she follows a special diet sometimes. >Karen is looking forward to seeing you. I guess she didn't know Doraleen that > well, so let's keep it to the three of us on the 16th, and D can visit the > 23rd, if you and she want to arrange that between you. > >p.s. you will be amused to know that I just broadcast this message to the 500 > subscribers to Index-L by mistake...their address is just above yours in my > quick list. >There may be lots of people for dinner that night.********************** >Barbara Stroup, Indexer >30 Spruceland Avenue, Springfield, MA 01108 >413 785-1835 e-mail indexa2z@the-spa.com > >**************************************************************** > Yeah, a bit off topic ... > "There's nothing more pathetic than an aging hipster" M. J. Barczak Washington D.C. (the mecca of aging hipsters) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:17:54 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Spern Subject: Re: Indexing Check List Barbara: I would to be able to hand it out at a seminar I am giving for tech writers. My snail mail is: Karen Spern 771A Union Street #3 Brooklyn, NY 11215 OR you can fax it to me at 718-789-5873. Thanks! Karen -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Cohen To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Indexing Check List >Hi Karen, > >I recently gave a workshop about hiring an indexer. If you send me your snail- >mail address (you can send it to me by private e-mail), I will send you a copy >of the checklist I created as a handout for the workshop. (I won't be abl;e to >send it immediately, but I could get it to you within the next week or so.) > >I don't know how much you will make of it, since it focuses on the questions >to ask (the answers were my presentation), but after you've looked it over, if >you have specific questions, I could try to tackle them with you. > >Barbara E. Cohen >Indianapolis, IN > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Schroeder Subject: Re: Indexing Check List Barb Koch - Bakoch2@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:26:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Indexing Check List A copy of the old ASI checklist can be found on the Chicago/Great Lakes site below: http://www.xsite.net/~cglc/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:42:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: automated/database indexing (long) I've been reading with both interest and dismay the discussion about artificial intelligence (A.I), automated indexing (A.I. too) and database indexing. Acck, my darkest fears brought to light!! I often torture myself thinking that of all the different types of indexing, database indexing has "most likely to be replaced by a robot" written in its cards. I imagine that someday, some suit will realize that all that has to be done to index an article (and save money) is run a comparison of the text of the article/abstract against an authority list containing their thesaurus. Bingo, no more indexers. After reading recent posts on Index-L, I started feeling _really_ sorry for myself. So I ate some chocolate and sat down to work, hoping my replacement by a computer wasn't imminent. In a attempt to say it wasn't so I paid attention to the process I went through in matching article concepts to thesaurus terms and what I did when there wasn't a thesaurus term available. (for a brief look at database indexing constraints, scan down to *.) For some databases, I know the thesaurus well enough that I can pick out approved concepts to describe the article without looking them up, as A.I. would do during a term-for-term match. (sigh, eat more chocolate). There's a thesaurus term for 'mapping' that I can't use for brain mapping because it has a geographical connotation (I can tell that by the related/broader/narrower terms listed with it in the thesaurus). A.I. can look at the context of the article term and the thesaurus term and select accordingly. (Sigh. Eat another M&M.) Wait! That means A.I. could _lighten_ my workload by picking out terms matched to the article based on context. But, someone with better than linear synapses still has to check those terms for validity, applicability, aboutness, and relatedness. If someone searching for term 'whatever' retrieved this article, what would they learn? What about researchers looking for concept Y (which doesn't appear in the article at all) - wouldn't they be really interested in this article? Are are new terms or concepts that aren't in the thesaurus yet? After indexing a few articles and with more than a few M&Ms under my belt, I realized that even if A.I. could start the indexing process, human brains have to finish it. When computer technology enters the indexing fray, there will still have to be humans vetting automated database indexing until computers can think associatively as well as linearly. Shelley Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com *Brief look: As a indexer whose work appears in databases of medical and scientific periodical literature, I am constrained by a controlled vocabulary (thesaurus) specific to the database I am indexing for. In order to describe an article, I may only use terms that appear in the thesaurus, or die trying to match the author's lexicon. I try to select thesaurus terms that relate the aboutness of the article as well as allowing a searcher to retrieve articles they may or may not know exist. I imaging my audience to be scientific or medical types who go looking for an article muttering, "where is that article that Joe was talking about at seminar last week?" or "I wonder if anyone else has looked at the relationship between x and y?" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:57:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Lynne M. Wellin" Subject: Carolina ASI meeting The Carolina Chapter of ASI will meet on Saturday, March 20, 1999 from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the Wren Memorial Library in Siler City, N.C. There will be a brief social period followed by a business meeting at which we will announce the results of the chapter elections. We are very happy to have Lori Lathrop as our guest speaker. Lori is the ASI National President. She will speak on indexing issues including getting started as an indexer, marketing your indexing services, and indexing in the 21st century. Fee for the meeting is $5.00. Lunch will be at Golden Corral in Siler City, with each member paying for their own meal. Please RSVP to Nrslyn@aol.com by Thursday, March 18, 1999. Hope you can attend! Lynne Wellin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:04:39 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Kells Subject: URGENT: PNW/ASI meeting confirmation -- Sorry for any duplication, folks -- If you are planning to attend the PNW/ASI meeting this Saturday, please drop a note to Louise Martin (lmartin@oz.net) ASAP letting her know if you plan to register. A simple note with a subject line of "will attend meeting" and names of attendees in the actual note should suffice. We've only heard from a handful of people, and we need to give the catering service a head count in order to have enough food. If we underestimate, we might break into arm-wrestling fights over the phyllo triangles. Sure, you think it's funny now..... '-) FYI, by popular request we're posting the menu ahead of time so you'll know what to expect. We've chosen the following for this meeting: .. Fresh fruit tray .. Spinach salad (hot bacon or raspberry vinaigrette dressing) .. Phyllo triangles (spinach and feta; sun-dried tomatoes and cheese; chicken and broccoli; salmon, green onions, sun-dried tomatoes and cheese) .. Mini quiches (vegetarian; quiche Lorraine) .. Bar cookies (key lime; lemon; jam) .. Cold sodas, coffee and tea Because this is buffet-style, substitutions cannot be made. See you Saturday! Kari ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Kari Kells, Chair & Webmaster PNW Chapter American Society of Indexers indexwest@mindspring.com www.mindspring.com/~indexwest/ASI/ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:10:49 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: (1)INDEXER CERTIFICATION THROUGH ASI & (2) INDEXER AS Hi Ardith, This is Manjit. I met you at DC chapter meeting last month. Indexer Authorship....Basically it depends upon the publisher. Some publishers give the credit to the indexer on their own. With some you have to ask for it. I know for my medical books one of my clients gives me credit. I have never asked for it. That publisher gives credit to every freelance indexer they use because that is their style. To me getting credit on the book is *not* important at all. As long as my client is happy with the index I have created for them and keeps on giving me repeat business, that is what matters to me. Indexer Certification....Obviously you have missed the long discussion about this horrible topic on Index-L which happened about a month back . Indexers have strong opinions about this issue. Personally, I am *totally against* certification. Certification *won't* make you a better indexer. The quality of the index depends upon the indexer's knowledge about the subject matter, space alloted for the index and the deadline. In my opinion, these 3 things are *extremely* important in order to create a good index. So it is better to index books in subject matters of your interest. If and whenever ASI will make certification mandatory, believe me, I will be the first one to quit. Good luck with your indexing business. See you in April for DC chapter meeting. Best Regards, Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services >From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, CRTT" >Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Subject: (1)INDEXER CERTIFICATION THROUGH ASI & (2) INDEXER AS "AUTHOR" >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:57:34 -0500 > >Dear Indexers, My professional background is medical administration. As a >new and eager indexer, I have two burning questions which have not yet been >answered or even addressed in any of the several books I have studied. I >have not seen anything about them in the Index-L discussions until today >when one indexer made mention of her authorship being included when she >reviewed (on the Net) a text her son co-authored. Her review included her >index. > >FIRST, the professional literature I have been studying to learn indexoing >qualifies indexers as "authors", per se, due to our work being a >significant form of "writing" within the book we have indexed. > >Why don't publisher's note the authorship of the index in the book, most >properly at the beginning of the index we AUTHOR? Is it up to us to begin >and encourage this practice with our clients/publishers? > >Of course, I realize one would NOT want authorship if the index is edited >AFTER SUBMISSION without the indexer's input. But with authorship as a >GIVEN, should this ever come about, then the editing MUST BE DONE by the >indexer; another positive feature of authorship. I look forward to hearing >opinions on this issue. > > > >SECOND, what do you all think of CERTIFICATION through a basic skills test >given through ASI so that newbies like myself would at least have this >under their belt when marketing for work? Certified in our field, we could >add C.ASI, Or A.S.I.C., or C.I., or some such qualifier after our name >which would indicate to publishers that this indexer has passed the basic >skills test and is worth trying. > >Basic skills certification in a professional field as untapped and unguided >as ours is one way to assist new indexers in learning good indexing, as >well as increasing the professionalism of the field. > >Now that the ASI is looking to become INTERNATIONAL through alliance with >other countries' professional indexing groups, it seems a certification >might be one way to better qualify and encourage training through-out the >profession, with ASI leading the way. Perhaps the certification should be >international in its qualifying for those of you who work for foreign >publishers. Would it be helpful for foreign publishers to see the >certification after an indexer's name when they are deciding whether to >hire that indexer - or not? > >Certification does not inhibit or limit the free-lance spirit, but simply >increases the quality of the profession. > >I realize there is a USDA course, but not all of us will/can have that on >our resume letter. Self-study via Mulvany, Chicago Manual of Style and >other beau coup professional articles/books on indexing, as well as the use >of video courses, are also excellent training/preparation for indexing work. > >If one does not have a librarian background, or a degree in literature, >etc., or perhaps no degree above high school, this testing for basic skills >would help qualify one in the field as it necessarily becomes more >competitive. > >If one wants to specialize in medical indexing, or some other >sub-specialty, then there could also be a sub-certification for each >specialty; i.e., basic medical terminology test, etc. > >I am very interested in thoughts from both new and seasoned indexers on >both questions - authorship & certification. > >Ardith in Virginia, DC Chapter of ASI Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:12:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Catherine Keenan Subject: private mail posted to the list could I ask, ever so gently, for people to double check before sending mail to the list instead of directly to the person who asked? Barbara for example did ask for people to contact her directly about the indexing check list. thanks a lot, catherine hurdy gurdy player/indexer toronto catherine indexer/hurdy gurdy player toronto ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:26:04 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: A Plus Child Development Subject: Please Review *** To be removed, reply with the word 'remove' in the subject line.** Schools and Libraries For your librarians, resource directories and purchasing agents. At last.. the world's best selling, most readable, best illustrated reference work is available at a price anyone can afford!! The 26 Volume Compton's Encyclopedia with it's unique fact index has always been te first choice reference work for teachers and students alike. To celebrate the availability of the Compton's, we are offering you the opportunity to acquire it at a price many hundreds of dollars below the price of it's competition. These magnificent 26 volumes can be yours today for $399 Canadian or $249 US (Plus Shipping) Wait there's more!! Each set comes bundled with the 1999 Compton's Interactive Multimedia CD which automatically updates itelf on the NET. Reviews place the Compton's CD Rom head and shouldres above any othr on the market today! For more information visit our website at http://www.apluschilddev.com You might also be interested in looking at our unique Young Students Learning Library which is 25 volumes designed for grade 1 to 5 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:15:44 -0500 Reply-To: billgrah@bhip.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: billgraham Organization: InfiNet Subject: remove A Plus Child Development wrote: > > *** To be removed, reply with the word 'remove' in the subject line.** > Schools and Libraries > For your librarians, resource directories and purchasing agents. > > At last.. the world's best selling, most readable, best illustrated reference > work is > available at a > price anyone can afford!! > The 26 Volume Compton's Encyclopedia with it's unique fact index has always > been te first > choice reference work for teachers and students alike. > > To celebrate the availability of the Compton's, we are offering you the > opportunity > to acquire it at > a price many hundreds of dollars below the price of it's competition. > > These magnificent 26 volumes can be yours today for $399 Canadian or $249 US > (Plus Shipping) > > Wait there's more!! > > Each set comes bundled with the 1999 Compton's Interactive Multimedia CD which > automatically > updates itelf on the NET. Reviews place the Compton's CD Rom head and > shouldres above any > othr on the market today! > > For more information visit our website at > http://www.apluschilddev.com > > You might also be interested in looking at our unique Young Students Learning > Library which is > 25 volumes designed for grade 1 to 5 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:29:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rimmer Subject: Re: remove -----Original Message----- From: A Plus Child Development To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:00 AM Subject: Please Review >*** To be removed, reply with the word 'remove' in the subject line.** >Schools and Libraries >For your librarians, resource directories and purchasing agents. > >At last.. the world's best selling, most readable, best illustrated reference > work is >available at a >price anyone can afford!! >The 26 Volume Compton's Encyclopedia with it's unique fact index has always >been te first >choice reference work for teachers and students alike. > >To celebrate the availability of the Compton's, we are offering you the > opportunity >to acquire it at >a price many hundreds of dollars below the price of it's competition. > >These magnificent 26 volumes can be yours today for $399 Canadian or $249 US >(Plus Shipping) > >Wait there's more!! > >Each set comes bundled with the 1999 Compton's Interactive Multimedia CD which >automatically >updates itelf on the NET. Reviews place the Compton's CD Rom head and >shouldres above any >othr on the market today! > >For more information visit our website at >http://www.apluschilddev.com > >You might also be interested in looking at our unique Young Students Learning >Library which is >25 volumes designed for grade 1 to 5 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:49:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kenny, Phyllis" Subject: Re: remove -----Original Message----- From: Rimmer [mailto:Rimmer@KUNTRYNET.COM] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 8:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: remove -----Original Message----- From: A Plus Child Development To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:00 AM Subject: Please Review >*** To be removed, reply with the word 'remove' in the subject line.** >Schools and Libraries >For your librarians, resource directories and purchasing agents. > >At last.. the world's best selling, most readable, best illustrated reference > work is >available at a >price anyone can afford!! >The 26 Volume Compton's Encyclopedia with it's unique fact index has always >been te first >choice reference work for teachers and students alike. > >To celebrate the availability of the Compton's, we are offering you the > opportunity >to acquire it at >a price many hundreds of dollars below the price of it's competition. > >These magnificent 26 volumes can be yours today for $399 Canadian or $249 US >(Plus Shipping) > >Wait there's more!! > >Each set comes bundled with the 1999 Compton's Interactive Multimedia CD which >automatically >updates itelf on the NET. Reviews place the Compton's CD Rom head and >shouldres above any >othr on the market today! > >For more information visit our website at >http://www.apluschilddev.com > >You might also be interested in looking at our unique Young Students Learning >Library which is >25 volumes designed for grade 1 to 5 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:54:13 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: List of Indexes for Marketing Hi everyone, I want to know how many of you send the *list of indexes done* alongwith your resume/brochure when you send the marketing package to a new client. My usual package contains my brochure, cover letter, business card, one sample index (sometimes 2 sample indexes, but usually only one) and the list of indexes done. It has increased my postage costs quite a bit. If I send my marketing package *without* list of indexes done, will it make any difference from marketing point of view? In other words, is it necessary to send this list? All opinions and suggestions are welcome. Best Regards, Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:14:44 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: List of Indexes for Marketing Manjit, As an experienced indexer, I see the list of indexes done as one of my best marketing tools, and it goes along with any marketing materials I send. That said, I have to say that it is a representative list, and not a complete list. That would be impossibly long. I allow myself a 2-pages list, because I have done so many varied types of indexes (encyclopedias, journals, books) and worked in diverse specialty fields and also a foreign language. So to highlight my versatility and experience I do the 2-page thing. BTW, I give the titles almost a full bibliographic listing, but not quite. I omit the author, for brevity. I give title, publisher, and date. I get more on the page that way. It is a kind of bastardization, I know. I've never been challenged on it. To lighten the load, as you gain experience and your list of titles gets longer, you could omit the sample index, and that would bring the packet down to a more manageable size. I submit a sample on request, and say that in my cover letter. Saves printing and postage if somebody is going to toss the thing anyway. I am always happy to send a sample to interested people, but my initial marketing materials don't need to have that ride along. The beauty of the list of titles indexed is that it can be tailored to the client, or the type of client. I have a few versions, so I'm not re-doing it all the time. I like to put the specialty area that the publisher deals with up at the top of the list. If I'm sending the materials to a medical publisher, I put those titles at the top of the list, and the engineering ones lower down. Social science books go down to the bottom. If I'm sending the list to the Judaica publishers, then I will order it differently. Makes sense, no? Thanks for asking -- good question! Reminds me ..... I haven't updated mine in a few months. ....... Gotta get to that. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:35:22 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: List of Indexes for Marketing JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > > > To lighten the load, as you gain experience and your list of titles gets > longer, you could omit the sample index, and that would bring the packet down > to a more manageable size. I submit a sample on request, and say that in my > cover letter. Saves printing and postage if somebody is going to toss the > thing anyway. I am always happy to send a sample to interested people, but my > initial marketing materials don't need to have that ride along. You could also put a sample index on your web site (if you have one). Then, just refer your clients to the page for the sample. You could do the same thing for the list of books indexed, except this lacks immediacy and impact. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:38:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: List of Indexes for Marketing Manjit, In my mailings to prospective clients, I think it's very important to include a summary list of the titles I've indexed. I can summarize what I believe are my skills, and list my training etc., but a list of what I have actually indexed best demonstrates my experience and the diversity of my abilities. Also it shows that publishers use my services repeatedly. This does more, I think, to prove that I am a good, reliable indexer than anything I say about myself -- that, a few representative samples of my work, and some references, of course. I think it is also good for publishers to know which other publishers are using my services. So I wouldn't cut out the list (although you might want to keep it selective). Diane Brenner Worthington, MA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:58:11 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Re: List of Indexes for Marketing When marketing, I send only a personal letter, letting them know I pay attention to their publications, a list of indexes (whether fairly complete or shortened/tailored to that publisher's interests), and a couple of business cards. On the list, one of my recently gained clients said it was the most impressive one for scholarly that she had seen--thus they DO look at it. I've never gotten around to doing a brochure, though I feel I should. I would not include a sample index, but if asked later, would then provide one, just as if I'm asked later for references, I'll provide those. I often sometimes include an ASI brochure and a SIG brochure, which emphasizes my professional involvements. Margie Towery ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:14:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rowena Hart Subject: Private replies being sent to list Hi all, I use Outlook Express and when I hit "Reply to Author" for INDEX-L messages, Outlook perceives the sender to be the listserver. The only way to reply privately rather than to the listserve is to copy the person's e-mail address from the header of the original message (the daemon droppings) and manually paste it into the "To" line. For other listserves, Outlook replies to the e-mail address of the person who actually sent the message, rather than the listserver. I am guessing that the INDEX-L listserver is configured to identify the listserve e-mail address as the sender's address, whereas other listservers are configured to identify an individual's address (the "author") as the sender's address. This might explain the number of personal replies being sent to this listserve. Hope this helps, Rowena ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rowena Hart Technical Writer Xcert International Inc. 1001-701 West Georgia Street Phone: 1 (604) 640-6210 Vancouver, BC, Canada V7Y 1C6 Fax: 1 (604) 640-6220 Web: http://www.xcert.com E-mail: rhart@xcert.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:08:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Private replies being sent to list I use Netscape for my mail, and when I hit "reply" it is addressed to only the author. "Reply all" addresses the message to the author with a cc to the list. I often use "reply all" and then delete the author and change the list to a "to:" (you can't have only a cc recipient) - which is what I did with this one. There may also be a difference depending on the headers you specify in your subscription to the list. To get a list of the listserv commands send to LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu (NOT the normal posting address) the command INFO REFCARD in the body of the message - NOT the subject line. The various header option settings would be sent to the address above in the body of the message as SET INDEX-L FULLhdr or FULLBsmtp -> "Full" mail headers SET INDEX-L IETFhdr -> Internet-style headers SET INDEX-L SHORThdr or SHORTBsmtp -> Short (default) headers SET INDEX-L DUALhdr -> Dual headers, useful with PC or Mac mail programs I refuse to speculate on what any specific mail program would do with each of these, but you could reset it for a while and see how it works out. NPR (National Public Radio) recently did a program on snafus caused by sending e-mail to other than the intended recipient. This included such things as venting about something your boss did, and then actually sending it to your boss. We all need to be aware of who we are sending mail to. Let this be a warning to us..... ;-) Iris Rowena Hart wrote: > Hi all, > > I use Outlook Express and when I hit "Reply to Author" > for INDEX-L messages, Outlook perceives the sender > to be the listserver. The only way to reply privately > rather than to the listserve is to copy the person's e-mail > address from the header of the original message (the > daemon droppings) and manually paste it into the > "To" line. > > For other listserves, Outlook replies to the e-mail > address of the person who actually sent the message, > rather than the listserver. I am guessing that the > INDEX-L listserver is configured to identify the > listserve e-mail address as the sender's address, > whereas other listservers are configured to identify > an individual's address (the "author") as the sender's > address. > > This might explain the number of personal replies being > sent to this listserve. > > Hope this helps, Rowena > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Rowena Hart Technical Writer > > Xcert International Inc. > 1001-701 West Georgia Street Phone: 1 (604) 640-6210 > Vancouver, BC, Canada V7Y 1C6 Fax: 1 (604) 640-6220 > Web: http://www.xcert.com E-mail: rhart@xcert.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:23:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Plea on message addressing (resulting from remove) PLEASE, please look at where you're sending these messages.. Learn to read the headers of your messages. In the header. look at the From and To fields. --->From: A Plus Child Development --->To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L The A Plus Child Development message was posted to Index-L, not to you as an individual. So every single time someone replied with "Remove" the message went to the **entire** Index-L mailing list. Look at the message you intend to send BEFORE you press the send button. Look at the address in the TO: field. Is this really where you want your message to go???? As an aside, don't reply with "remove" to any spams because this just confirms that you possess a valid email address that will be added to some database somewhere and wind up getting you more spam. Just delete the silly things. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:58:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Catherine Keenan Subject: Re: Plea on message addressing (resulting from remove) At 02:23 PM 3/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >PLEASE, please look at where you're sending these messages.. >Learn to read the headers of your messages. In the header. >look at the From and To fields. maybe the simplest thing is NEVER to hit "reply" to a message from a list. It's too easy... catherine indexer/hurdy gurdy player toronto ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:05:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Catherine Keenan Subject: Re: Private replies being sent to list sorry for the gratuitous message, I see Rowena already made the point catherine indexer/hurdy gurdy player toronto ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:06:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Private replies being sent to list In-Reply-To: <199903161714.JAA27071@decibel.electriciti.com> I genuinely beliieve Rowena's explanation to the list to be unnecessary. Empathy should be considered in such situations. To me, the gripes are much closer to list clutter than the rare glitches. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:24:28 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Please Review In-Reply-To: Date sent: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:26:04 +0000 Send reply to: Indexer's Discussion Group From: A Plus Child Development Subject: Please Review Originally to: index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > *** To be removed, reply with the word 'remove' in the subject line.** As far as I know, writing 'remove' in response to spam is a waste of time - it only confirms that the address they are sending it to is active and you will get more. It is no use sending the 'remove' message to INDEX-L, either. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:14:42 -0800 Reply-To: kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathy Paparchontis Subject: private replies Is it really that much trouble to zap a message accidently sent to the list? Kathy Paparchontis ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:45:07 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Misdirected mail to Index-L All the email to Index-L is stored in the archive, so if several copies of a spam, for example, are accidentally sent to Index-L they will take up space permanently. The admonition to watch where and how one is sending email is a good one. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:44:06 -0500 Reply-To: billgrah@bhip.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: billgraham Organization: InfiNet Subject: Indexing events Indexers My name is Bill Graham. I belong to the indexing special interest group of the Society for Technical communication. I write a column for the indexing SIG's newsletter, A to Z. I am collecting information for indexing workshops and conferences. I have been perusing some of your announcements about indexing workshops. Any information you can send my way will be most helpful. Please contact me whenever you know about an upcoming indexing event. My e-mail address is billgrah@bhip.infi.net. The next issue of the newsletter will be due on April 15. I appreciate your help. Bill Graham ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:17:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing events In-Reply-To: <199903161846.retr9o.1eg.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> At 06:44 PM 3/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >Indexers > >My name is Bill Graham. I belong to the indexing special interest group >of the Society for Technical communication. I write a column for the >indexing SIG's newsletter, A to Z. I am collecting information for >indexing workshops and conferences. The Raleigh chapter of the STC periodically offers a one-day workshop on indexing computer manuals. It's not on the books at the moment, but keep an eye on their Web site at: http://www.stc.org/region2/ncc/www/edtraining2.html Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:49:35 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Christine J. Smith" Organization: CJS Indexing Services Subject: Index mention in Amazon.com review Saw this review on Amazon tonight... Reviews Amazon.com Social history is often described as the history of everyday life and the forces that shape it. Social historians place more emphasis on the effects of an event than on the event itself. To a social historian, therefore, wars, battles, and military strategies matter less than the impact of these things on those left on the home front. American Life: A Social History is a collection of articles excerpted from the three-volume Encyclopedia of American Social History. The wide margins are dotted with quotations, topic headings, cross-references, and definitions; more than 200 illustrations enhance the text. A detailed index--AARP to Vladimir Zworykin--helps readers pinpoint information and draw parallels between articles. Accessible enough for a casual reader, but still of great value to a student, American Life: A Social History is a great resource for those interested in American history. --C.B. Delaney http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0028650158/ref=ad_rf1 *********************************************************************** Christine J. Smith cj_smith@ix.netcom.com CJS Indexing Services Denver, Colorado metro area 303.277.9834 ....Indexes..Abstracts..Special Projects.... ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:59:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Amazon.com reviews At 07:49 PM 3/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >Saw this review on Amazon tonight... > I love some of the reviews on there better than the books! I'm starting to get addicted to going there just to read the reviews. It's become kind of like a "Bibliophile's Forum". Surprisingly they print negative reviews too, which kind of surprised me. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:34:39 +1100 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: See and See also versus Use and ??? The current standard (I think) says to use 'Use' not 'See' in references. In a thesaurus the 'Use' is reciprocated by 'UF', ('Used for'). If you use 'Use' in references, is it OK to also use 'See also'? It seems as if it would match better to use 'See' and 'See also'. Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:50:10 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: See and See also versus Use and ??? In-Reply-To: <921656325.2117629.0@listserv.cuny.edu> In article <921656325.2117629.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, on Wed, 17 Mar 1999 at 18:34:39, Jon & Glenda writes >The current standard (I think) says to use 'Use' not 'See' in references. In >a thesaurus the 'Use' is reciprocated by 'UF', ('Used for'). If you use >'Use' in references, is it OK to also use 'See also'? It seems as if it >would match better to use 'See' and 'See also'. A). As a thesaurus is a tool for indexers as well as for searchers, it uses the terminology USE/USE FOR (USE/UF) and RELATED TERM/RELATED TERM (RT/RT) as well as BROADER TERM/NARROWER TERM (BT/NT). If you are indexing a database or a type of material that is closely linked to a thesaurus, for use by people who understand what an information retrieval thesaurus is, and especially when they will be using a computer system for searching, then you might wish to use this terminology in your index too. b). But for a back-of-the-book index for a general readership it is usual, and clearer, to use "See" and "See also". Reciprocal entries ("See from") are not normally made for "See" references in the final index, though such "tracings" may be helpful during the compilation stages. The non-preferred terms can be shown in parentheses after the preferred term, e.g. cats (Felidae) dogs (including dingoes) dingoes _see_ dogs Felidae _see_ cats "See also" (corresponding to "related term") is normally its own reciprocal, e.g. animals _see also_ zoos zoos _see also_ animals I do not think that it is advisable to mix the terminology of a) and b) above; stick to one or the other. (Which is what you thought matched better anyway). Leonard -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk --------------- --------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:44:27 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Career path In-Reply-To: <199903122016.PAA12102@mail2.bellsouth.net> I would recommend taking a class in indexing, even if it's theoretical, if one's course schedule permits it. In library school (many years ago), I took extra classes in 'kiddy lit' and history of printing, for instance, even though I never intended to get involved in elementary school libraries or the book production industry. Librarians -- at least, public service-type librarians -- are some of the few remaining generalists: EVERYTHNG is useful to know, eventually! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. |Even though a course in abstracting and indexing may emphasize theory |instead of how-to, I would encourage you to sign up for it. How-to aspects |of indexing can easily be picked up on your own from any number of sources. |Theory is hard to come by, and it will stand you in good stead. |My indexing |education about 30 years ago came mainly from a library school courses in |abstracting and indexing. I picked up the how-to via on-the-job mentoring. |That was not at all difficult because I already had a good grasp of the |basic principles. | |I also found the theoretical background useful in making library management |decisions on setting up databases for in-house collections, thesaurus |development or modification, online searching, etc. | |Jeanne Moody ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:49:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Private replies being sent to list In-Reply-To: <199903161912.LAA29763@nccn.net> * One Time Automated Email Forwarded * Mail Delivery Problems * Approx. Noon to 4:00pm PST Mar 16 1999 at:smtp.nccn.net: Please check with the sender that all E-mails were delivered in that time (This Message is an automated attempt to complete delivery.) We apologize for the fact that our "Junk Email filter", designed to reject some classes of Emails, was misconfigured and may have zealously Rejected many valid Emails sent through our system. See: http://spam.abuse.net for an explanation of "Junk Email". See: http://www.nccn.net/legal/spam.htm for legal information The Filter is now working correctly again. * Nevada County Community Network * http://www.nccn.net * -------------------------------------------------------------------- >I use Netscape for my mail, and when I hit "reply" it is addressed to only >the author. "Reply all" addresses the message to the author with a cc to >the list. I often use "reply all" and then delete the author and change >the list to a "to:" (you can't have only a cc recipient) - which is what I >did with this one. There may also be a difference depending on the >headers you specify in your subscription to the list. To get a list of >the listserv commands send to >LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu (NOT the normal posting address) >the command >INFO REFCARD >in the body of the message - NOT the subject line. >The various header option settings would be sent to the address above in >the body of the message as >SET INDEX-L FULLhdr or FULLBsmtp -> "Full" mail >headers >SET INDEX-L IETFhdr -> >Internet-style headers >SET INDEX-L SHORThdr or SHORTBsmtp -> Short (default) headers >SET INDEX-L DUALhdr -> Dual >headers, useful with PC or Mac mail programs >I refuse to speculate on what any specific mail program would do with each >of these, but you could reset it for a while and see how it works out. >NPR (National Public Radio) recently did a program on snafus caused by >sending e-mail to other than the intended recipient. This included such >things as venting about something your boss did, and then actually sending >it to your boss. We all need to be aware of who we are sending mail to. >Let this be a warning to us..... ;-) >Iris >Rowena Hart wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I use Outlook Express and when I hit "Reply to Author" >> for INDEX-L messages, Outlook perceives the sender >> to be the listserver. The only way to reply privately >> rather than to the listserve is to copy the person's e-mail >> address from the header of the original message (the >> daemon droppings) and manually paste it into the >> "To" line. >> >> For other listserves, Outlook replies to the e-mail >> address of the person who actually sent the message, >> rather than the listserver. I am guessing that the >> INDEX-L listserver is configured to identify the >> listserve e-mail address as the sender's address, >> whereas other listservers are configured to identify >> an individual's address (the "author") as the sender's >> address. >> >> This might explain the number of personal replies being >> sent to this listserve. >> >> Hope this helps, Rowena >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Rowena Hart Technical Writer >> >> Xcert International Inc. >> 1001-701 West Georgia Street Phone: 1 (604) 640-6210 >> Vancouver, BC, Canada V7Y 1C6 Fax: 1 (604) 640-6220 >> Web: http://www.xcert.com E-mail: rhart@xcert.com >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:54:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Plea on message addressing (resulting from remove) In-Reply-To: <199903161925.LAA00695@nccn.net> * One Time Automated Email Forwarded * Mail Delivery Problems * Approx. Noon to 4:00pm PST Mar 16 1999 at:smtp.nccn.net: Please check with the sender that all E-mails were delivered in that time (This Message is an automated attempt to complete delivery.) We apologize for the fact that our "Junk Email filter", designed to reject some classes of Emails, was misconfigured and may have zealously Rejected many valid Emails sent through our system. See: http://spam.abuse.net for an explanation of "Junk Email". See: http://www.nccn.net/legal/spam.htm for legal information The Filter is now working correctly again. * Nevada County Community Network * http://www.nccn.net * -------------------------------------------------------------------- >PLEASE, please look at where you're sending these messages.. >Learn to read the headers of your messages. In the header. >look at the From and To fields. >--->From: A Plus Child Development >--->To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >The A Plus Child Development message was posted to Index-L, >not to you as an individual. So every single time someone >replied with "Remove" the message went to the **entire** >Index-L mailing list. >Look at the message you intend to send BEFORE you press the >send button. Look at the address in the TO: field. Is this >really where you want your message to go???? >As an aside, don't reply with "remove" to any spams because >this just confirms that you possess a valid email address >that will be added to some database somewhere and wind up >getting you more spam. Just delete the silly things. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:02:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Catherine Keenan Subject: Re: Plea on message addressing (resulting from remove) In-Reply-To: <199903161956.LAA02812@nccn.net> * One Time Automated Email Forwarded * Mail Delivery Problems * Approx. Noon to 4:00pm PST Mar 16 1999 at:smtp.nccn.net: Please check with the sender that all E-mails were delivered in that time (This Message is an automated attempt to complete delivery.) We apologize for the fact that our "Junk Email filter", designed to reject some classes of Emails, was misconfigured and may have zealously Rejected many valid Emails sent through our system. See: http://spam.abuse.net for an explanation of "Junk Email". See: http://www.nccn.net/legal/spam.htm for legal information The Filter is now working correctly again. * Nevada County Community Network * http://www.nccn.net * -------------------------------------------------------------------- >At 02:23 PM 3/16/99 -0500, you wrote: >>PLEASE, please look at where you're sending these messages.. >>Learn to read the headers of your messages. In the header. >>look at the From and To fields. >maybe the simplest thing is NEVER to hit "reply" to a message from a list. >It's too easy... >catherine >indexer/hurdy gurdy player >toronto ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:03:47 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Catherine Keenan Subject: Re: Private replies being sent to list In-Reply-To: <199903162005.MAA03391@nccn.net> * One Time Automated Email Forwarded * Mail Delivery Problems * Approx. Noon to 4:00pm PST Mar 16 1999 at:smtp.nccn.net: Please check with the sender that all E-mails were delivered in that time (This Message is an automated attempt to complete delivery.) We apologize for the fact that our "Junk Email filter", designed to reject some classes of Emails, was misconfigured and may have zealously Rejected many valid Emails sent through our system. See: http://spam.abuse.net for an explanation of "Junk Email". See: http://www.nccn.net/legal/spam.htm for legal information The Filter is now working correctly again. * Nevada County Community Network * http://www.nccn.net * -------------------------------------------------------------------- >sorry for the gratuitous message, I see Rowena already made the point >catherine >indexer/hurdy gurdy player >toronto ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:05:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Private replies being sent to list In-Reply-To: <199903162016.MAA04039@nccn.net> * One Time Automated Email Forwarded * Mail Delivery Problems * Approx. Noon to 4:00pm PST Mar 16 1999 at:smtp.nccn.net: Please check with the sender that all E-mails were delivered in that time (This Message is an automated attempt to complete delivery.) We apologize for the fact that our "Junk Email filter", designed to reject some classes of Emails, was misconfigured and may have zealously Rejected many valid Emails sent through our system. See: http://spam.abuse.net for an explanation of "Junk Email". See: http://www.nccn.net/legal/spam.htm for legal information The Filter is now working correctly again. * Nevada County Community Network * http://www.nccn.net * -------------------------------------------------------------------- >I genuinely beliieve Rowena's explanation to the list to be unnecessary. >Empathy should be considered in such situations. To me, the gripes are much >closer to list clutter than the rare glitches. >Pam Rider >Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth >prider@electriciti.com >prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:06:00 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Amazon.com reviews In-Reply-To: <199903170303.WAA09198@mail4.bellsouth.net> |I love some of the reviews on there better than the books! I'm starting to |get addicted to going there just to read the reviews. It's become kind of |like a "Bibliophile's Forum". Surprisingly they print negative |reviews too, |which kind of surprised me. | |Kevin Mulrooney That's because there's no "they," Kevin. Readers can write and post their own reviews of books online with no reference to or editing by anyone (which is sometimes painfully obvious). I'm a heavy reader and reviewer (surprise...), and since I like to spread my book opinions around, I've posted several dozen reviews on Amazon. I, too, read them faithfully, esp of recent bestsellers. The balance of opinion on a heavily marketed new novel is almost always more trustworthy than the industry's own reviews -- not to mention the flack on the book jacket! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:13:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Amazon.com reviews This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE7056.5CDF77C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many of Amazon's reviews are anonymous, which allow reviewers to be a = bit more brave than they might be if they had to declare their = identities. Unfortunately, this sets up the very real possibility of = employees and authors of competing books to provide negative reviews. = This happens more often in the competitive industries, such as field of = computer books, because so many publishers are aiming for the same = time-sensitive audience. Of course, this cuts both ways. Publishers can also tout their own books = as being amazing. Buyer beware when reading the anonymous reviews. - Seth -----Original Message----- From: indexer@INETCOM.NET To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L = Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 10:03 PM Subject: Amazon.com reviews At 07:49 PM 3/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >Saw this review on Amazon tonight... > I love some of the reviews on there better than the books! I'm starting = to get addicted to going there just to read the reviews. It's become kind = of like a "Bibliophile's Forum". Surprisingly they print negative reviews = too, which kind of surprised me. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE7056.5CDF77C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Many of Amazon's reviews are = anonymous, which=20 allow reviewers to be a bit more brave than they might be if they had to = declare=20 their identities. Unfortunately, this sets up the very real possibility = of=20 employees and authors of competing books to provide negative reviews. = This=20 happens more often in the competitive industries, such as field of = computer=20 books, because so many publishers are aiming for the same time-sensitive = audience.
 
Of course, this cuts both ways. Publishers can also = tout their=20 own books as being amazing.
 
Buyer beware when reading the anonymous = reviews.
 
- Seth
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 indexer@INETCOM.NET = <indexer@INETCOM.NET>
To:= =20 Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BING= HAMTON.EDU>
Date:=20 Tuesday, March 16, 1999 10:03 PM
Subject: Amazon.com=20 reviews

At 07:49 PM 3/16/99 -0700, you = wrote:
>Saw=20 this review on Amazon tonight...
>

I love some of the = reviews on=20 there better than the books!  I'm starting to
get addicted to = going=20 there just to read the reviews.  It's become kind of
like a=20 "Bibliophile's Forum".  Surprisingly they print negative = reviews=20 too,
which kind of surprised me.

Kevin=20 Mulrooney

--------------------------------------------------------= -----------
Dyslexics=20 of the world untie!

First State=20 Indexing           = ; (302)=20 738-2558
276 East Main=20 Street            = Indexer@inetcom.net
Newark, = Delaware=20 19711          http://www2.inet.net/~ind= exer/kjm.html ------=_NextPart_000_0047_01BE7056.5CDF77C0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:15:01 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: ASI Conferencd brochure The ASI Conference brochures were mailed, standard rate, on February 22 and should have been received by now. I do have extras and will be happy to mail a replacement brochure if you will give me your snail mail address. Sandi Schroeder Vice President, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:30:54 -0500 Reply-To: billgrah@bhip.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: billgraham Organization: InfiNet Subject: spam replies Dear Indexers You have my apologies for spreading the spam. I should have: @ Looked a little closer for the original senders' address # Deleted the e-mail % Sent a separate e-mail to the sender with an equally irksome message ! Known that this would happen The copious advice is well received. I might add that it was terrifying to see the wide geography of the spam spread. I will not commit this sin again. Have a pleasant day. Bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: My indexes at Amazon.com There has been discussion at O'Reilly & Associates regarding reviews about my index for _Perl in a Nutshell_. The discussion started because somebody anonymous wrote a negative review. Can you guess which one? :-) To date, here are the comments: "... Perl in a Nutshell concludes--as you might expect--with an excellent and well-cross-referenced index." "... And it has a fine index as well." "...A reference without a useable index. Information is there but impossible to access quickly and easily which somewhat defeats the purpose of the book. ... I wish they would pay for an indexer and make their publications more useable." Supposedly there is another index-related review on the way, but not yet available at Amazon. How the PR people at O'Reilly know this is outside my understanding. I'm not tooting my own horn (or I would have neglected to include that negative review). Instead, I want to demonstrate that when it comes to reference books, the readers really need a good index, and that these same readers do notice when the index works or fails. There *are* educated consumers out there. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Information Services 90 Sherman Street Eleven Quincy Street Cambridge MA 02140 Arlington MA 02476-6031 617-499-7439 phone ph 617-818-1885 fax 781-641-1981 617-661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth ICQ# 16652316 co-webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.asindexing.org webmaster, STC Indexing SIG: http://www.stc.org/pics/indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:23:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: List of Indexes for Marketing In-Reply-To: <199903161455.IAA22026@mailgw.flash.net> I actually don't put a list of indexes in my marketing materials, because of the length. I may reconsider after the comments to INDEX-L. I send a brochure, business card, and cover letter, and keep a list of all my projects on my web site. If people want to know more, they can go there, I suppose. Joanne AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com 281-469-4461 http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "A good book is the precious lifeblood of a master spirit, embalmed and treasured up on purpose to a life beyond life." John Milton -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu] On Behalf Of Manjit Sahai Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 8:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: List of Indexes for Marketing Hi everyone, I want to know how many of you send the *list of indexes done* alongwith your resume/brochure when you send the marketing package to a new client. My usual package contains my brochure, cover letter, business card, one sample index (sometimes 2 sample indexes, but usually only one) and the list of indexes done. It has increased my postage costs quite a bit. If I send my marketing package *without* list of indexes done, will it make any difference from marketing point of view? In other words, is it necessary to send this list? All opinions and suggestions are welcome. Best Regards, Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:28:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: List of Indexes for Marketing I do exactly the same thing. So far it has worked out well. Cynthia Bertelsen At 05:23 PM 3/17/99 -0600, Joanne Clendenen wrote: >I actually don't put a list of indexes in my marketing materials, because= of >the length. I may reconsider after the comments to INDEX-L. > >I send a brochure, business card, and cover letter, and keep a list of all >my projects on my web site. If people want to know more, they can go= there, >I suppose. > >Joanne > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ "When we no longer have good cooking in the world, we will have no literature, nor high and sharp intelligence, nor friendly gatherings, no social harmony."=20 --Car=EAme ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:06:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: List of Indexes for Marketing I include a representative list, rather than an exhaustive list. On the list are, divided by general subject group, books whose indexes I would be happy to have someone see, on subjects I don't mind indexing. If an index has been badly mangled (and I know it), I don't put it on my list. If I absolutely hated the subject matter, I don't put it on my list! I supply the list because, as several people have pointed out, it offers the publisher/editor some sense of my professionalism and scope. I edit it because I want it to represent the best I can do (someone might actually check out those indexes!) And I tailor the material, or at least its order, to the mix that the publisher specializes in. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:31:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rimmer Subject: OOPS Sorry to be one of the culprits who didn't remove in the correct way. I fail to look and zealously hit the reply to author and send not even considering that that SPAM could have come from Index-L. I will definitely check all other replies. Pat ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:09:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Hagedorn Subject: Summary of Responses to Early English Classification Strategies Posting Thank you to everyone who responded to my request for recommendations on Early English classification strategies, thesauri tools and automation products. A summary of the information I received is below. As some members have pointed out, I gave an incorrect example of an automated classification tool in my original posting. I mixed up two products -- the example should have been either Verity's Knowledge Organizer or Infoseek's Ultraseek Server Content Classification Engine. My apologies! 1. Classification strategies Responses leaned away from subject classification of these Early English materials and towards other types of classification, i.e., by place, by date or time period, by style (poem, play,...). Some replies noted that the narrower the subject range, the easier the job, since there may be classifications developed exclusively for a particular subject. Others suggested working from the original LC subject headings, and filling in as appropriate. Some of the suggestions for books with possible classification strategies included the "Typologie des Sources du Moyen Age Occidental", "Manual of the Writings in Middle English", "A Concise Dictionary of Middle English from A.D. 1150 to 1580", and "An Etymological Dictionary of Modern English". Unluckily, none of these books fits the range of materials we are working with. 2. Thesauri and thesauri tools I was lucky enough to run across an Old English and Middle English thesaurus, being developed by Prof. Christian J. Kay at the University of Glasgow in Scotland. The web site for this is at http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/EngLang/thesaur/homepage.htm. This seems promising -- however, it's a large project and still under development. I only received one recommendation of a thesaurus, which was Termium, a standard English/French thesaurus. The suggestion was to use this in conjunction with an old French/modern French dictionary. (http://www.bureaudelatraduction.gc.ca/test/termium1.htm#2000) 3. Automated classification tools I received several suggestions of these types of tools. The list follows: http://www.searchtools.com/info/directories.html (a very helpful list of search tools, some of which have automated classification features) http://www.netowl.com/ (NetOwl) http://software.infoseek.com/products/cce/ccetop.htm (Infoseek's Ultraseek Server Content Classification Engine) http://www.plumtree.com/ (Plumtree's Server) http://www.gmd.de/ml-archive/frames/software/Software/Software-frames.html (machine learning software) http://www.sgi.com/Technology/mlc/ (MLC++) http://www-ai.cs.uni-dortmund.de/FORSCHUNG/VERFAHREN/SVM_LIGHT/svm_light.eng.htm l (SVM Light) http://ilk.kub.nl/software.html (TIMBL) http://www.kdnuggets.com/siftware.html (siftware) http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/roads/ (ROADS project) http://orc.rsch.oclc.org:6109/ (OCLC Scorpion project) I hope this helps anybody else who is working on similar types of projects. Thanks again for all the responses I received. ________________________________________ Kat Hagedorn :: Information Architect Argus Associates :: http://argus-inc.com 734-913-0010 :: kat@argus-inc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:44:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: [Fwd: RE: indexer job posting] Please reply to Thao Diep-- not to the listserv. Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:26:24 -0500 From: "Diep, Thao - PSR/Palo Alto" I have a 6 months contract located in Redwood Shores for a Technical Writer with Framemaker and Robohelp experience to do on-line indexing. I am looking to pay around $42/hour on a W2 basis and $48/hour on an Incorporated basis. I would appreciate any help! Thao Diep Technical Resource Manager The Avery Group 431 Burgess Drive Menlo Park, CA 94025 Main: (650) 614-3100 Direct: (650) 614-3119 Fax: (650) 327-2514 mailto:tdiep@averygroup.com http://www.averygroup.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Skuster [SMTP:skuster@binghamton.edu] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 10:16 AM > To: tdiep@averygroup.com > Subject: indexer job posting > > Thao Diep, > Bonnie Parks-Davies in the ASI office send me your message regarding an > ad you would like to post. > You can post your job ad to the indexers > listserv--index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu > Or, you can send it to me and I will forward it. > > Charlotte Skuster > Index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:14:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: [Fwd: Re: indexer job opening] Please reply to Denise Felch--not to the listserv. Subject: Re: indexer job opening Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:54:10 -0600 From: Denise Felch FEDERAL AND STATE TAX Position: Senior Indexer Grade 16 Department: Federal Tax Service Location: Riverwoods Reports to: Pam Carron=20 Responsibilities: =B7 Generates and maintains index for Federal Tax Service (FTS) and other Federal tax products. =B7 Supervises and provides technical, troubleshooting and problem-solving support for FTS index in the SGML environment. =B7 Responsible for index quality assurance for FTS and other assigned products.=20 =B7 Work with FTS staff to develop and implement efficient production workflows for all elements of product maintenance, enhancement and revision. =B7 Participates in product evaluation, development and enhancements. Qualifications: =B7 Bachelor degree or equivalent is required. =B7 2+ years indexing experience in a publishing environment. Experience indexing technical publications and/or trade publications a plus.=20 =B7 Knowledge of CINDEX indexing tools required. Knowledge of Ingress indexing tools a plus.=20 =B7 SGML experience/knowledge a plus. =B7 Ability to work independently and in a team environment (both as a team member and as a leader). =B7 Outstanding oral and written communication skills. =B7 Professional attitude, flexible and positively responsive to change. =B7 Strong organizational, time management, project management and interpersonal skills. =B7 Familiarity with CCH systems as plus. =B7 Familiarity withWindows 95, Lotus Notes 4.6, Office 97, and general computer literacy required. =B7 Excellent proofreading skills and keen attention to detail required.=20 All interested and qualified individuals are encouraged to=20 Submit an application to CCH INCORPORATED 2700 Lake Cook Road Riverwoods, IL 60015 Fax: 847/267-7878 Phone: 847/267-2213 Attention: Denise Felch ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:43:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: indexer job opening] At 02:14 PM 3/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >Please reply to Denise Felch--not to the listserv. > > >Subject: Re: indexer job opening >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:54:10 -0600 >From: Denise Felch > > > > > > FEDERAL AND STATE TAX > > Position: Senior Indexer > Grade 16 > Department: Federal Tax Service Location: Riverwoods > Reports to: Pam Carron=20 > > Can this position be done by someone remotely? With a modem and computer program? I am very interested in the position. Many thanks, M. Jessie Barczak 2440 16th St. N.W. #221 Washington, D.C. 20009 202-232-3043 jbarczak@cq.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:35:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: job postings Please reply directly to the person advertising the position. Most ads come from people who do not subscribe to index-l. They will not see your reply and you may miss out on an opportunity. In addition, we all don't need to know who is interested in applying. 8-). Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:16:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Schroeder Subject: Video Indexing Position Archive Impact has immediate openings for Video Indexers. Positions are both full and part-time. Candidates must be flexible and work well under pressure. Work must be done on-site in Northern California. Experience a plus, but not necessary. Please submit cover letter, resume and salary requirements by Monday March 22, 1999. You may send to Kim Schroeder at (kschroed@mail.msen.com) or fax to (313) 366-2199. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:32:04 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MARIE-LOUISE SETTEM Organization: Dominican Univ., River Forest, IL Subject: Internet Resource Knowledge for the New Millennium Dear listserv moderator: Elisa F. Topper, Assistant Dean, Dominican University GSLIS requested that I forward the following information to you to post to your listserv. We appreciate your assistance in helping us to promote this exciting event. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Dominican University, Graduate School of Library and Information Science is pleased to present =93Metadata for Internet Resources,=94 a two-day Institute on April 22-23, 1999. The Institute is designed to be a comprehensive and practical introduction to develop resource descriptions for Internet resources =96 from selection and collection management to cataloging/classification and catalog maintenance. ATTEND THIS WORKSHOP AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO: XX understand the management of Internet resources and how emerging alternative metadata schema relate to more traditional cataloging and classification; XX comprehend the basic concepts and the developments underlying the new alternative metadata schema; XX receive hands-on experience in describing Internet resources by traditional cataloging/ classification, as well as by alternative metadata; and XX examine the problems and procedures in implementing the metadata imbedded Internet resources. If you are a librarian or information manager who use and manage Internet resources or catalog Internet resources . . . you can=92t afford to miss THIS! The distinguished faculty for this institute are: Priscilla Caplan, Asst. Dir. For Library Systems, University of Chicago Library; Rebecca S. Guenther, Sr. MARC Standards Specialist, Network Development and MARC Standards Ofc., Library of Congress, Washington; Gertrude Koh, Professor, GSLIS, Dominican Univ., River Forest, Ill. Attendance is limited and registration is due by April 2, 1999 and is on a firt-come, first served basis. Fee is $195, lunch on both days is included. For further information contact the Dominican University, GSLIS Office at (708) 524-6850, or www.dom.edu/Academic/GSLIS/Activities.html for registration details. Marie-Louise Settem Graduate School of Library & Information Science Dominican University 7900 West Division Street River Forest IL 60305 800/828-8475 (toll free) 708/524-6522 (direct line) settmari@email.dom.edu 708/524-6657 (fax) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:07:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Video Indexing Position In a message dated 3/18/99 5:21:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, kschroed@MAIL.MSEN.COM writes: << Archive Impact has immediate openings for Video Indexers. >> Hello all; I'm a newbie to Indexing. Can anyone on the list share with me what "video indexing" is? How can a videotape be indexed? :-) Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:01:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: voice programs and cindex for windows In-Reply-To: <199903122343.PAA14073@mx1.eskimo.com> --=====================_4064766==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:43 PM 3/12/99 -0800, you wrote: >On the other hand, the Pentium III supposedly has 70 new instructions built >in, some of which deal with Voice Recognition. An article I read recently >said that a freelancer who had spent six months training Dragon Naturally >Speaking to get to a 95% accuracy, obtained the same results in five minutes >on a Pentium III. Sounds a bit hard to believe to me, too. The new BestMatch D-NS which will take full advantage of the P-III improved voice recognition capability isn't due out until third quarter; best guess is sometime 2000. The word on the street about Dragon Naturally Speaking >is that it takes a few weeks to "train" the program to >recognize your voice. Until the program is trained (or >you are trained, perhaps) there will be a great number >of errors in any documents you produce. These must >be edited out by hand. Training for recognition in the Professional version can be greatly speeded up by building a "voice model" by taking a bunch of your documents and putting it through the vocabulary builder. I did it for one of the physicians that I "transcribe" by VR and it cut training time by about 2/3rds. Jeri Lee --=====================_4064766==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:43 PM 3/12/99 -0800, you wrote:
>On the other hand, the Pentium III supposedly has 70 new instructions built
>in, some of which deal with Voice Recognition.  An article I read recently
>said that a freelancer who had spent six months training Dragon Naturally
>Speaking to get to a 95% accuracy, obtained the same results in five minutes
>on a Pentium III.

Sounds a bit hard to believe to me, too.  The new BestMatch D-NS which will take full advantage of the P-III improved voice recognition capability isn't due out until third quarter; best guess is sometime 2000.

The word on the street about Dragon Naturally Speaking
>is that it takes a few weeks to "train" the program to
>recognize your voice.  Until the program is trained (or
>you are trained, perhaps) there will be a great number
>of errors in any documents you produce.  These must
>be edited out by hand.

Training for recognition in the Professional version can be greatly speeded up by building a "voice model" by taking a bunch of your documents and putting it through the vocabulary builder.  I did it for one of the physicians that I "transcribe" by VR and it cut training time by about 2/3rds. 

Jeri Lee

--=====================_4064766==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:01:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Off topic - virus question Hi all, I have a question for the computer experts on the list regarding virus problems occurring with e-mail attachments. Can a virus cause a problem when an attachment is downloaded but not opened? I have been using automatic download, and then running a virus check on the files before I open them. And, of course, I don't open attachments from unknown sources. I get a three e-mail lists in digest form, & it is a nuisance to have to download the files manually, but worth the trouble if it gives me extra virus protection by not loading unknown files to my computer. Ann T. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:31:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, CRTT" Subject: Y2K and Indexing Dear Indexers, Are we to do anything at this time re. possible Y2K problems with our programs, computers, etc.? Please excuse my ignorance - it seems confusing to me. I would hate to be indexing something and suddenly have no computer system functioning! I use SKY and would assume this has nothing to do with the Y2K clock. I have Windows 95 and hope it is Y2K compliant. Has there been discussion of this in the past? I joined only this month. TYIA for any help. Ardith ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:31:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sal Subject: Re: Off topic - virus question I never post to this list but I got a virus from another mailing list I'm on, the happy virus. To get rid of it go to members.tripod.com/docsmiley/happy99.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Ann Truesdale To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 10:01 AM Subject: Off topic - virus question >Hi all, > >I have a question for the computer experts on the list regarding virus >problems occurring with e-mail attachments. Can a virus cause a problem when >an attachment is downloaded but not opened? I have been using automatic >download, and then running a virus check on the files before I open them. And, >of course, I don't open attachments from unknown sources. > >I get a three e-mail lists in digest form, & it is a nuisance to have to >download the files manually, but worth the trouble if it gives me extra virus >protection by not loading unknown files to my computer. > >Ann T. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:42:36 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Mortensen Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing Ardith asked: > Are we to do anything at this time re. possible Y2K problems with our > programs, computers, etc.? Yes, it has been discussed a bit here, with some instructions for how to test your PC. I must admit that I haven't done this because I'm afraid that I won't be able to reset the date correctly if I change it and the PC doesn't work! There were articles in the Indexer (last October's issue?) about the indexing software packages. The most practical information I've seen for those of us using standalone PCs is in the magazine Smart Computing, the March 1999 issue. I bought this one, so I don't know if their articles are on the Web. I don't think you're *necessarily* safe with Win95, but check the Microsoft Web site. By the way, this month I received my first query from a client on whether I'll be able to provide services to them after Jan. 1, 2000. My Y2K plan is to buy a new computer and make sure it is Y2K-compliant before switching over from my old computer (which is 5 years old now.) I think the problem is worth paying attention to, but not worrying excessively about. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 08:49:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing At 10:31 AM 3/19/1999 -0500, Ardith B. Ayotte, CRTT wrote: >Are we to do anything at this time re. possible Y2K problems with our >programs, computers, etc.? > >Please excuse my ignorance - it seems confusing to me. I would hate to be >indexing something and suddenly have no computer system functioning! > >I use SKY and would assume this has nothing to do with the Y2K clock. I >have Windows 95 and hope it is Y2K compliant. Any computer program written in the past couple of years is almost surely Y2K compliant. Likewise, if you have a relatively new computer, it's fairly certain that the hardware is compliant. The larger question, though, concerns the big world out there. Will we have reliable electricity in January, 2000? The utility grid operates in great part at the direction of computers. How about the Internet? The U.S. mail? IMO, we need to worry more about the big systems and less about whether our own equipment will function right. After all, if need be, I can go right back to the good old shoebox-and-index-cards method of operation. But if I can't deliver the finished product because there is no electricity, or the Postal Service or UPS is terribly disrupted, then I am in trouble. There are a number of free and easy ways to check your own hardware for Y2K compliance; I did this, and no longer have the URLs, but I'm sure somebody will post them. What I am doing is putting together a client letter regarding my own compliance, asking about theirs, and outlining my proposed methods of emergency operations should we experience serious disruptions of power, light, or delivery services. My personal goal is to have everything in place by July 1, and all clients fully informed. I would really like to hear from others as to how they are handling the Y2K scenario. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:07:59 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Cindex discussion list I would like to see if there is sufficient interest to warrant a discussion list for Cindex users. Topics of discussion could include: -tips and tricks -problem solving techniques -suggestions to Indexing Research for future enhancements of Cindex The ideal list membership would be current Cindex users, potential Cindex users, and support staff from Indexing Research, the developers of Cindex. If you would be interested in participating in such a list, please respond to me directly at . I will post the results of this survey in a couple of weeks. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:43:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Patricia H. Gross" Subject: Re: Off topic - virus question In-Reply-To: <199903191502.KAA07644@mx04.erols.com> > Can a virus cause a problem when >an attachment is downloaded but not opened? It's my firm impression that the virus is only activated when the attachment is opened. Certainly I know I had received attached files that contained the happy virus, but I just did a search of the attachment folder and deleted all the attached files that I didn't know were ones I had reason to expect were ok. Patricia Gross ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:19:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Hill Subject: Evaluating Network Reosurces, May 23-36 --- Please excuse multiple postings. For complete information, see http://www.asis.org/Conferences/MY99/ or contact meetings@asis.org. ------ Evaluating and Using Networked Information Resources and Services ASIS Mid-Year Meeting May 23-26, 1999 Pasadena Hilton, Pasadena, CA http://www.asis.org/Conferences/MY99/ USE: Who uses networked resources and why? What is "successful use?" Does culture affect use? EVALUATION: Why is ongoing evaluation and assessment important? What evaluation methods work in the networked environment? What hinders successful evaluation? MEASUREMENT: What should be measured? Are performance measures and quality standards appropriate? How do we insure quality of data? THEORY: What models do or can describe and predict use? Are new types of conceptual underpinnings needed? TECHNOLOGY: Do technological advances - log files, authentication, security, privacy, etc., affect use studies and evaluation research? SOCIAL IMPLICATIONS AND IMPACTS: Will the networked environment create social divisions? What are the impacts of equal (or unequal) access to networks? EDUCATION: What kind of training can develop evaluation techniques? How can evaluation inform policy, management, and others? POLICY: Do national/local/organizational policies affect use & evaluation? What policies might improve use and evaluation? How do politics affect evaluation? PARTIAL LIST OF SESSION TOPICS: SUNDAY, May 23, 1999: 6:00-7:00 p.m. KEYNOTE ADDRESS: CLIFFORD LYNCH, Coalition for Networked Information * CNRI's D-Lib Working Group on Digital Library Metrics & D-Lib Test Suite * Performance Measures * Authentication and Authorization * A Neural NET Method for Log Data Analysis * Using Electronic Surveys * Making Internet Information More Verifiable * Query Characteristics and Use Analysis * Quantitative User Studies * Web-based Course Delivery * Access to Visual Information * Visualization System for IR * Evaluating User Needs and Outcomes * Next Z39.50 Implementation * "Provider" Methods for Evaluating NET Interfaces * Evaluating Web Sites and Site Evaluation Tools * Measuring & Evaluating Federated Digital Libraries * Evaluation of a Common Command Language Gateway Pre-conference Seminars: + Digital Lib: Computer Concepts & Technologies + 2nd Generation Intranet Development + Metadata for Digital Libraries + XML American Society for Information Science 8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501 Silver Spring, MD 20910 (301) 495-0900 FAX (301) 495-0810 http://www.asis.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:56:12 -0800 Reply-To: kpaparchontis@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kathy Paparchontis Subject: Re: Video Indexing Position Hi All, Does anyone have a ballpark figure for video indexing? > > Archive Impact has immediate openings for Video Indexers. > > Positions are both full and part-time. Candidates must be flexible and work > well under pressure. Work must be done on-site in Northern California. > > Experience a plus, but not necessary. Please submit cover letter, resume > and salary requirements by Monday March 22, 1999. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:28:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Audiotapes In-Reply-To: <199903092015.MAA23443@mx1.eskimo.com> --=====================_33966017==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would definitely like to purchase the workshops on tape, particularly those dealing with medical and legal indexing. However, I think Do Mi has a valid issue and believe a presenter should be compensated as if the person were actually attending the seminar. Although some mechanism for asking questions would have to be devised or the price lowered to compensate for inability to get questions answered. Then, perhaps a written agreement to not share the tapes with anyone else might be in order so the presenter's rights are preserved. Jeri Lee At 02:01 PM 3/9/99 -0600, you wrote: >Several people have contacted me about providing audiotapes/transcripts of >the upcoming ASI conference. So I would like to take an informal poll so >that I can make an informed decision. The tapes would be available at a >reasonable price. > --=====================_33966017==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I would definitely like to purchase the workshops on tape, particularly those dealing  with medical and legal indexing.

However, I think Do Mi has a valid issue and believe a presenter should be compensated as if the person were actually attending the  seminar.  Although some mechanism for asking questions would have to be devised or the price lowered to compensate for inability to get questions answered. 

Then, perhaps a written agreement to not share the tapes with anyone else might be in order so the presenter's rights are preserved. 

Jeri Lee

At 02:01 PM 3/9/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Several people have contacted me about providing audiotapes/transcripts of
>the upcoming ASI conference.   So I would like to take an informal poll so
>that I can make an informed decision. The tapes would be available at a
>reasonable price.
>

--=====================_33966017==_.ALT-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:16:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Charles R. Anderson" Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing In-Reply-To: <19990319152542.JJZI24057@listserv.cuny.edu> Actually, the off-the-shelf Windows95 is not Y2K compliant, but Microsoft has downloads from their site that will make it compliant. You should check out Microsoft Office products as well; I believe that Excel may need a downloadable patch. Charles Anderson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:54:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth A. McCarthy" Organization: Elizabeth A. McCarthy Indexing Subject: Re: Cindex discussion list I would be interested in participating in this. I've been a Cindex user since 1994, and there is always something new to learn! Elizabeth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:58:29 +0000 Reply-To: contextcomm@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: Off topic - virus question Ann and all, Keep in mind that e-mail messages themselves cannot spread viruses... only files, which may be sent as e-mail attachments, can carry a virus. And my understanding is that you must open the attachment for it to do harm. Rather than open an attachment directly from the e-mail message by double-clicking on it, I always save the attachment to my hard drive, where I can scan it for viruses before I open it. Note: It's very important to maintain a current virus definitions file on your computer so your virus-detection software can recognize the newer viruses. I use Norton Anti-Virus; Symantec (the manufacturer) posts new virus definition files on its website every month for updating purposes. I assume all manufacturers of such software do the same. While it is good advice to only open attachments from people you know, it doesn't eliminate the need for virus-detection software. Your best friend can send you a virus-infected file without even realizing it. You should always save the file to your hard drive (or a disk, it doesn't matter) and scan it before opening. And if you find a virus, tell the person who sent you the file to prevent him from sending it to others unknowingly! Happy virus scanning, Anne Ann Truesdale wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a question for the computer experts on the list regarding virus > problems occurring with e-mail attachments. Can a virus cause a problem when > an attachment is downloaded but not opened? I have been using automatic > download, and then running a virus check on the files before I open them. And, > of course, I don't open attachments from unknown sources. > > I get a three e-mail lists in digest form, & it is a nuisance to have to > download the files manually, but worth the trouble if it gives me extra virus > protection by not loading unknown files to my computer. > > Ann T. -- Anne Day, Indexer ConTEXT Communications Holland, Pennsylvania contextcomm@worldnet.att.net "Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:19:17 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Cindex discussion list 3-20-99 Craig: You can count me in. A discussion of various topics of CINDEX is always welcome in my book. Rob -- Razorsharp Communications, Inc. Robert A. Saigh, President 6240 Southwood Avenue Saint Louis, MO 63105-3234 314.726.0288 fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:01:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, CRTT" Subject: HOW TO INDEX Dear Indexers, I respectfully request your input. I wish to draw upon the expertise and experience and success of my peers. I am brand-new, so not really a "peer" yet! But, I am chaffing at the bit to get started and do have a wonderful offer from a medical publisher who is "willing" to take me on unexperienced because I have a medical and administrative background and have completed studies. I have read the books and studied the videos. Now I am wondering if any of you have some basic rules, guidelines, or questions you keep ever in mind as you barrel through a book to get it done by deadline. There is so much information in my mind at this point that I can't seem to narrow down the BASICS of the actual indexing - the mindset needed while DOING IT! I am trying to make up a basic guide on ONE index card (no pun intended)to have at hand so that when I read text I can keep FOCUSED and move along and not get bogged down in decisions, decisions, decisions. Please add to, delete, change, correct, prioritize my items below. Would these cover it? (1)Who is my audience? (2)What is the MAIN THEME of this book/chapter/paragraph? What is it ABOUT? What is the author saying, communicating? (3)Is this a significant item for a heading? (4)Am I overindexing this text? (considering space limitations, subject matter, audience, etc.) (5)Do I have enough/too many subheadings to be helpful to reader? (More subs. for technical and scholarly books, of course.) (6)Where do I want to send the precious reader in the text? (7)Do I have enough *see also* headings and double postings? (8)Am I fulfilling the publishers guidelines/style sheet? (9)??? (10)??? Maybe there is already a short checklist available so I don't re-invent the wheel? It must fit on an index card to be carry-able and easy to apply. It would make an excellent bookmark. Because I am new, this is so important. I hope that as I gain more experience I will refer less to this guide, as it will become part of my thinking - automatically. With some succinct guidelines I know I will be able to "get it done & done well!" Any and all help is invited and welcomed. TYIA. Ardith Ayotte, CRTT D.C. Chapter, ASI ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:50:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Schroeder Subject: Re: Video Indexing Position I posted the position opening. Video Indexing is quite complicated, but has been an exciting adventure for us. When we video index, we use a controlled vocabulary and also some of the technology now available (like video loggers, encoders, and closed captioning) to break the tapes down scene by scene. I hope that that helps! Kim Schroeder Archive Impact www.archiveimpact.com -----Original Message----- From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 10:09 PM Subject: Re: Video Indexing Position >In a message dated 3/18/99 5:21:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >kschroed@MAIL.MSEN.COM writes: > ><< Archive Impact has immediate openings for Video Indexers. >> >Hello all; > >I'm a newbie to Indexing. Can anyone on the list share with me what "video >indexing" >is? How can a videotape be indexed? :-) > >Patrick. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:23:29 -0600 Reply-To: janjimme@swbell.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jan Mefford Subject: Re: Off topic - virus question Ann Truesdale wrote: > > Hi all, > > I have a question for the computer experts on the list regarding virus > problems occurring with e-mail attachments. Can a virus cause a problem when > an attachment is downloaded but not opened? I have been using automatic > download, and then running a virus check on the files before I open them. And, > of course, I don't open attachments from unknown sources. > > I get a three e-mail lists in digest form, & it is a nuisance to have to > download the files manually, but worth the trouble if it gives me extra virus > protection by not loading unknown files to my computer. > > Ann T. Sounds like you should be okay to me. I work at a major university and haven't heard of any virus problems except when you open attachments but remember thoses attachments that could have virus problems will have them if they are ever opened or forwarded. Jan M. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:25:45 -0600 Reply-To: dlwitt@concentric.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: quaker1 Subject: Re: Cindex discussion list Yes, I would be interested in this. Diana Witt (dlwitt@concentric.net) Craig Brown wrote: > I would like to see if there is sufficient interest to warrant a > discussion list for Cindex users. Topics of discussion could include: > > -tips and tricks > -problem solving techniques > -suggestions to Indexing Research for future enhancements of Cindex > > The ideal list membership would be current Cindex users, potential Cindex > users, and support staff from Indexing Research, the developers of Cindex. > > If you would be interested in participating in such a list, please > respond to me directly at . I will post the results of > this survey in a couple of weeks. > > Craig Brown > > ===================================================== > The Last Word lastword@i1.net > Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword > (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 > ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Frederick Joyner SUBCRIBE INDEX-L FRED JOYNE ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:12:47 +1100 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing In-Reply-To: Sonsie Conroy wrote: > At 10:31 AM 3/19/1999 -0500, Ardith B. Ayotte, CRTT wrote: > > >Are we to do anything at this time re. possible Y2K problems with our > >programs, computers, etc.? > > The larger question, though, concerns the big world out there. > Will we have > reliable electricity in January, 2000? The utility grid operates in great > part at the direction of computers. How about the Internet? The U.S. mail? > IMO, we need to worry more about the big systems and less about > whether our > own equipment will function right. After all, if need be, I can go right > back to the good old shoebox-and-index-cards method of operation. But if I > can't deliver the finished product because there is no electricity, or the > Postal Service or UPS is terribly disrupted, then I am in trouble. > > I would really like to hear from others as to how they are > handling the Y2K > scenario. The Y2K 'bug' exists primarily as a means for overworked and under-resourced MIS managers to scare more money out of their executive bosses. It's also a wonderful scapegoat for problems that would have happened anyway. It enables cynical and greedy authors to make money by spreading panic and despondency. Finally, it satisfies the millennial urge among people who would otherwise be worshipping comets or UFO-spotting. I am handling the scenario by ignoring it when I can and suppressing others' hysteria and panic when I can't. A year ago I challenged bug believers to put forward five firm predictions of bad things that would happen as a result of the bug. I received no responses. Bug believers are big on doom and gloom, but short on hard facts. I believe there are two possible reasons why bug believers can't specify what will happen at the millennium: 1. It's all too difficult to predict, so we can only handle it by running around in circles and screaming. 2. Nothing will happen. We would have had some problems if we didn't fix them. So we fixed them. Personally I'm opting for 2. Bug believers are welcome to respond - PROVIDED they can come up with some hard facts and definite predictions. This doesn't include mere assertions that other people are panicking already. OK, so your elevator thinks it's 1900. What's it going to do - stop and wait for an operator with brass buttons and a little round cap? Jon. =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal diagonal@hermes.net.au ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 08:31:54 -0800 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing Someone commented that it is just like computer people to shorten Year 2000 to Y2K. That's the way we got into this problem in the first place ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 13:44:12 -0500 Reply-To: pat.buchanan@sympatico.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Patricia Buchanan Organization: Buchanan Indexing and Editing Subject: Publishers cancelling contracts Dear People: Last week I got the unpleasant news that an index (already two weeks late) was being cancelled because the publisher "wanted to get it out right away." That is bad enough, but I had refused at least one other index because of this job. I did not inform him frostily that he had cost me a couple of thousand because there are supposedly three more books in this series and I would like to get THOSE books at least. Perhaps I should put a cancellation clause in my contracts, something to the effect that, if it were cancelled less than a week prior to delivery date or after that date, there would be a cancellation fee of xx%. However, if I enforced such a clause, would I probably lose any future work from this client? And should I just grin and bear the lost income? I can remember someone posting to this list that they accept ALL contracts, trusting that at least one of them will slip and therefore all can be completed on time! Doesn't sound like bad advice at this moment! So, my questions: 1. Should I have a cancellation clause in every contract? 2. If so, what should be the penalty be, in percentage? 3. What is the likelihood that the client will never call again? I suppose this is one of the joys of freelancing... Many thanks. Patricia ______________________________ Patricia Buchanan Tel: 613-596-9420 Email: pat.buchanan@sympatico.ca Website: http://www3.sympatico.ca/pat.buchanan/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 14:33:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: Re: HOW TO INDEX Hi Ardith, > I am trying to make up a basic guide on ONE index card (no pun intended)to > have at hand so that when I read text I can keep FOCUSED and move along and > not get bogged down in decisions, decisions, decisions. Please add to, > delete, change, correct, prioritize my items below. > > (1)Who is my audience? > > (2)What is the MAIN THEME of this book/chapter/paragraph? What is it > ABOUT? What is the author saying, communicating? Your #1 and #2 are the main things I keep in mind as I'm indexing a book. I might edit (2) to say, "What info in this chapter/paragraph would my audience/user want to find? What's the most important concept or info in this section? And what terms can I use to help them find this info (using the language and jargon that my audience would look for). I'd think about the other items on your list later, as I edit the index, pare it down for the space provided (if necessary), and work to meet the style guide for the client. You're definitely on the right track, so go for it! Hope that helps. Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 http://www.asindexing.org <-- What's Indexing? http://www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG http://members.aol.com/Pmauer <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 15:00:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing Amen. I will state however, that the most disruptive problems could come from control systems in utility operations and banks and so forth. I will predict that no one who works for a bank, utility, or safety organization (fire, police, hospital, etc.) will be able to schedule leave between about Christmas 1999 and January 15, 2000. This will be the prudent course in handling any glitches in those services that arise then, and making sure the personnel to handle manual overrides are available. And if they fail to do at least that, we are right in demanding that they be replaced (mayors, governors, CEOs of utilities, etc.) Iris Ailin-Pyzik Jon & Glenda wrote: > > The Y2K 'bug' exists primarily as a means for overworked and under-resourced > MIS managers to scare more money out of their executive bosses. It's also a > wonderful scapegoat for problems that would have happened anyway. It enables > cynical and greedy authors to make money by spreading panic and despondency. > Finally, it satisfies the millennial urge among people who would otherwise > be worshipping comets or UFO-spotting. I am handling the scenario by > ignoring it when I can and suppressing others' hysteria and panic when I > can't. > > A year ago I challenged bug believers to put forward five firm predictions > of bad things that would happen as a result of the bug. I received no > responses. Bug believers are big on doom and gloom, but short on hard facts. > > I believe there are two possible reasons why bug believers can't specify > what will happen at the millennium: > > 1. It's all too difficult to predict, so we can only handle it by running > around in circles and screaming. > 2. Nothing will happen. We would have had some problems if we didn't fix > them. So we fixed them. > > Personally I'm opting for 2. > > Bug believers are welcome to respond - PROVIDED they can come up with some > hard facts and definite predictions. This doesn't include mere assertions > that other people are panicking already. > > OK, so your elevator thinks it's 1900. What's it going to do - stop and wait > for an operator with brass buttons and a little round cap? > > Jon. > > =================================== > Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne > Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring > http://www.users.bigpond.com/Diagonal > diagonal@hermes.net.au ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:46:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Y2K and Indexing I have no interest in polemics regarding Y2K on either side. However, as a reference librarian and indexer, I am bothered by inaccuracies stated as fact. 1) There is no such thing as a Y2K "bug." The fact that programmers years ago used two digits rather than four to represent a year in no way meets the accepted denotation (or connotation) of a computer "bug" anymore than a program statement such as PRINT [variable] can be called a "bug." Trying to turn this concept into a pejorative term such as bug lover does nothing to advance people's understanding. 2) Fixing the computer program issue is only a small part of the entire problem. The much larger issue is PLC's (programmable logic controllers) otherwise referred to in the media as "embedded systems." There are literally billions (as many as 25 billion) of these controlling everying thing from live operations to scheduled maintainance times, to toasters. Many of these will not care in the slightest about what the date is. However, if one of them happens to be part of a high-rise elevator system and thinks that the elevator is dangerously past time for service, taking the elevator out of service, then indeed, that may become important to the riders in that car. Similarly, if one happens to need a emergency defribillator at precisely the moment in goes out of service, that too may be a critical issue. And most companies don't even know all the places these chips are being used. Suppose only 0.1 percent (and other estimates go as high as 5 percent) of these embedded chips are involved in some critical operation (that relies on exact date keeping) fail. That is still 25 million devices suddenly not working. In one of the most highly developed technological society in the world, what do you think the odds are that you might be impacted by this failure? Unlikely, perhaps, but not as remote as some postings to this list suggest. 3) The General Accounting Office (GAO) in no way meets the category of overworked, under-resourced MIS departments. Before concluding that absolutely nothing will happen, I suggest that people read some of the testimony recently before Congress regarding the government's preparedeness. No, I don't plan to run around in circles screaming, but I also don't plan to be driving a vehicle on the highway at the stroke of midnight 1999. The best course, IMHO, as others have suggested, is to take the same kind of preparations as for a major snowstorm or hurricane. There's not a lot of other things we can do about the larger problems. Charles Anderson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:39:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: PROPOSED INCREASED RATES ON THE INTERNET This is NOT a scam. Dave T. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Urgent Internet Issue..Please Pass to All and Write Your Gov Author: at Internet Date: 3/12/99 9:52 AM To all E-mailers, The House has a bill set up for a vote ASAP on whether to charge long distance rates for Internet access even if you dial-up locally. This is something that affects each of us. Please read and forward: Congress will be voting in less than two weeks. CNN stated that the Government would, in two weeks time, decide to allow or not allow a charge to your phone bill equal to a Long Distance call EACH time you access the Internet. The address is: http://www.house.gov/writerep/ (copy this, then paste it into the Internet address window) If you choose, visit the address above and fill out the necessary form! If EACH one of us, forwards this message on to others in a hurry, we may be able to prevent this injustice from happening! PLEASE PASS THIS ON!!! Dick Miller, N8CBU, 1999 Dayton Hamvention General Chairman. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:51:53 -0600 Reply-To: shellybourassa@execpc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shelly Bourassa Subject: Re: PROPOSED INCREASED RATES ON THE INTERNET Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: > This is NOT a scam. > > Dave T. > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > Subject: Urgent Internet Issue..Please Pass to All and Write Your Gov > Author: at Internet > Date: 3/12/99 9:52 AM > > To all E-mailers, > > The House has a bill set up for a vote ASAP on whether to charge long > distance rates for Internet access even if you dial-up locally. This is > something that affects each of us. Please read and forward: > > Congress will be voting in less than two weeks. CNN stated that the > Government would, in two weeks time, decide to allow or not allow a charge to > your phone bill equal to a Long Distance call EACH time you access the > Internet. My ISP has recently sent a warning about this, saying it's not true. Several news sources have made incorrect reports about an FCC ruling which states that calls to Internet Providers will be billed as per-minute, long-distance calls. The alleged government ruling is NOT true and it's doubtful that it ever will be. The FCC has set up a fact sheet which states: "The bottom line is that the FCC has no intention of assessing per-minute charges on Internet traffic or changing the way consumers obtain and pay for access to the Internet." If you have questions, they have a Web site at: http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/nominute.html I hope this clears things up. Sometimes it's difficult to know fact from fiction on the Internet! Shelly B. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:40:08 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Re: Y2K (and Indexing) From Christine Headley My favourite travel company decided not to run any tours over this coming New Year. The firm tries to foresee all problems before they happen so that people's (expensive) holidays run as the customers would wish. Martin Randall (of the eponymous travel company) says that he doesn't expect disasters on the day, but that his customers would prefer not to see the New Year in in stuck in a lift. He also says that nothing he has previously done as a travel company, mentioned in passing in a newsletter to current customers rather than to the world at large, has had anything like the same publicity! Christine Headley Copyeditor and Indexer Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:26:32 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: PROPOSED INCREASED RATES ON THE INTERNET On 3/21/1999 4:39 PM Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote (in part): >This is NOT a scam. > >Dave T. Dave, did you happen to get a House bill number on that? I searched Thomas, the Congressional web site, and found NOTHING similar to what you state. I've been hearing about similar bills for over a year now and, as Shelly states, they almost always turn out to be rumor. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:31:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sam Dawson Subject: FW: (fwd) OT: FYI: NO InterNet Telephone Charges I was forwarded this from another list: Sam -----Original Message----- Federal Communications Commission FACT SHEET February 1999 No Consumer Per-Minute Charges to Access ISPs The following fact sheet provides information in response to erroneous reports that the FCC is planning to impose per-minute usage charges on consumer access to Internet Service Providers (ISPs). It also discusses the FCC's February 25, 1999 decision relating to dial-up traffic bound for ISPs. The bottom line is that the FCC has no intention of assessing per-minute charges on Internet traffic or changing the way consumers obtain and pay for access to the Internet. 1. What is the source of this misunderstanding? The FCC has been considering issues relating to certain carrier-to-carrier payments, so-called "reciprocal compensation." These payments compensate a local telephone company for completing a local call that is placed by one of its competitor's customers. On February 25, 1999, the FCC adopted a Declaratory Ruling regarding these carrier-to-carrier payments and initiated a new proceeding to consider the matter in light of conclusions reached in the Declaratory Ruling. The following is an example of how the carrier-to-carrier payments at issue work: If a customer of Phone Company A makes a local call to a customer of Phone Company B, Phone Company A must compensate Phone Company B for handling the last leg of the call. This payment structure, called reciprocal compensation, may have been negotiated by the two phone companies, or may be based on a decision of the state regulatory authority. The reciprocal compensation payment by Company A to Company B may be based on a per-minute charge for the length of the call, or some other negotiated basis. Reciprocal compensation is thus paid between telephone companies for use of the local phone network. Reciprocal compensation is not paid by consumers or by Internet service providers. Accordingly, reciprocal compensation does not determine consumer Internet charges. Typically, the companies involved are an incumbent local telephone company (ILEC) currently serving a large number of subscribers, and a competing local telephone company (CLEC) that has only recently entered the market and has fewer subscribers. 2. So why is this suddenly an issue? There is a dispute in the telephone industry over whether calls to ISPs are subject to reciprocal compensation, and that is the matter the FCC is considering. In the example above, if the consumer dials up the Internet over the phone lines of Phone Company A, and the ISP is served by Company B, the question is whether Company A must compensate Company B for delivering the call to the ISP. That is the only issue before the Commission with regard to this matter. Thus, the manner in which consumers pay for Internet access is not before the Commission and the Commission repeatedly has stated that it will not change the manner in which consumers obtain and pay for Internet access. Rumors to the contrary persist, however, and the FCC has received hundreds of thousands of e-mails on the subject over the last two years. 3. Are phone companies paying reciprocal compensation for Internet traffic now? All 26 state regulatory commissions that have considered the issue have found that the phone company that originates a call to an ISP must pay reciprocal compensation to the competing phone company for delivering that traffic to an ISP, but many companies are withholding payment while pursuing appeals. Many incumbent local telephone companies argue that Internet traffic is not local, because it often begins in one state and ends in another state, and therefore should not be subject to reciprocal compensation. These parties say that Internet traffic is more like long distance traffic, where the local phone company does not terminate the call locally, but rather hands the call off to a long distance company that carries the call over its interstate network to a distant location. Long distance companies pay access charges to the local phone company. If two local phone companies are involved in carrying the call to the long distance provider, the two local companies share the access charges paid by the long distance company and no reciprocal compensation is due. Unlike long distance carriers, ISPs do not pay access charges to local telephone companies. 4. What did the FCC conclude in its February 25, 1999 decision? The Declaratory Ruling concludes that carriers are bound by their existing interconnection agreements, as interpreted by state commissions, and thus are subject to reciprocal compensation obligations to the extent provided by such agreements or as determined by state commissions. The Declaratory Ruling finds that Internet traffic is jurisdictionally mixed and appears to be largely interstate in nature. But, the Declaratory Ruling preserves the rule that exempts the Internet and other information services from interstate access charges. This means that those consumers may continue to access the Internet by dialing a seven-digit number and will not incur long distance charges when they do so. In a notice of proposed rulemaking, the Commission also asked for comment on proposals governing future carrier-to-carrier compensation for handling this traffic. 5. If reciprocal compensation does have to be paid in the case of Internet traffic (either through state or FCC decisions), won't the phone companies that have to pay that compensation be forced to impose a surcharge on their Internet customers or on ISPs (who will pass is through to consumers)? No. While the rates consumers pay for local telephone service are regulated by the states, and not the FCC, most states require phone companies to charge a flat rate for unlimited local usage. A local telephone company could not alter these local rates to include an internet surcharge without approval from the state commission. Moreover, local telephone companies are obtaining increased revenue from internet traffic, because many consumers are installing second lines dedicated to Internet traffic. Consumers pay for these lines just as they would pay for any second phone line. Similarly, the local phone company cannot impose any charges on the ISP, even if it is forced to pay reciprocal compensation for traffic delivered by a CLEC to that ISP, because the ILEC has no direct billing relationship with the ISP. 6. Will the FCC's decision that calls bound for ISPs are interstate require ISPs have to pay access charges to local companies? No. The FCC has a special exemption for ISPs, under which ISPs are treated as local phone customers and are exempt from interstate access charges paid by carriers. Thus, rather than paying higher access charges, ISPs simply purchase phone lines from the local phone company as any local business would do. Nothing in the FCC's February 25, 1999 decision affects this exemption. 7. Why is it necessary to consider this issue if 26 states have already decided it? As discussed in the Declaratory Ruling, the FCC has jurisdiction over calls between states, while each state has jurisdiction for calls within its borders. Thus, the FCC has a statutory obligation regarding this traffic. In addition, a uniform national policy regarding inter-carrier compensation for the delivery of ISP traffic will aid the development of Internet, which is not confined by state, or even national, boundaries. --------- End forwarded message ---------- _ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 23:29:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Arab names -- HELP! Anyone out there willing to look over a list of Arab names and help me out with the inversion (if any?) I've done all the ones that were obvious from the text, or where I could clearly tell that one element was a given name and one was a family name. Now I've got a bunch that are beyond my scant knowledge of the subject. Care to take a crack at them, anyone? I won't post the entire list to the entire list (if you'll pardon the repetition.) Please contact me privately if you're willing to help out. It would help if you are a night owl (or live in Australia!) because the index is a rush job and goes out in about 14 hours (about 2:00 pm EST.) Thanks! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net