Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9903A" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:52:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: The Indexer's WebRing The WebRing is (finally) up and running (yes, correctly this time) at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4537/indxr.html ... Anyone who tried to join over the last couple weeks and got errors or no response, please re-apply. Thanks :-) == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:35:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hannah Huse Subject: ASI Credit Card charges Thanks to Carolyn for explaining the Pm&r account name that is given for ASI charges. I didn't recognize a Pm&r charge on a recent VISA bill and tried to verify the charge. Got no response from a phone call, and asked VISA to give me some information. It turned out to be my ASI renewal. I only found out because Bonnie had to track me down and ask if I wanted to drop my membership. I really felt dumb, and was sorry to have caused Bonnie a problem. I mention this only to encourage others to note Carolyn's information on how ASI charges are processed, and that Pm&r is what will show on credit card billing. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:02:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Jean's cool URL find That's http://www.whatis.com/ ... if anyone is confused ... My browser finds "whatis" if you don't put any http or .com around it but can't find it otherwise. That sort of truncated-URL recognition is an option you can set on some browsers. == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:46:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Marketing after-the-fact indexes During the geneology thread a few weeks ago, Mike Smith said that he had produced some indexes for older geneology books, thus getting around the copyright problem. I suspect this has been dealt with before so hopefully someone can provide a quick answer: what _are_ the copyright implications of writing and marketing an index to a more modern book still in print. What about older books still in print: say I wanted to sell my own index to Darwin's Origin of Species? Brief aside to illustrate what I'm thinking of: writing and marketing a creative work operates on a different paradigm than our normal indexing for hire; which (the latter) operates on a "time spent" or "pages indexed" model with respect to renumeration. A writer or after-the-fact indexer is freed from the constraint of the element of time as a value element; the concept of the "hourly wage" has a different (if any) meaning for such work. I'm thinking in terms of marketing very inexpensive indexes to books already out. Essentially all would be situations where for my own reasons I would like my own index to the work; either because there was no index in the book, or because I was not satisfied with the existing one. A typical selling price might be $1-5/index, making it an impulse type purchase. I can imagine impressive markets for indexes to certain fiction books that are highly popular and have cult-like followings, say Ann Rice to take just one example. [Her books may even be indexed; I have no clue since I consume no fiction whatsoever!!] Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:06:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes It sounds like a great idea except for the difficulty in being timely-i.e. submitting an index at a time when a new edition is about to be published and the editor/publisher would be open to adding material to the book. Rebecca Rofman indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: I can imagine impressive markets for indexes to certain fiction > books that are highly popular and have cult-like followings, say Ann Rice to > take just one example. > > Kevin Mulrooney > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dyslexics of the world untie! > > First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 > 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net > Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:26:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Charles R. Anderson" Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In-Reply-To: <19990301194820.HCHR5706@listserv.cuny.edu> As to the legal issues (and the following is not intended nor should it be construed as legal advice - seek the advice of a lawyer if you proceed), approximately 18 years ago (early 80's I believe), a third-party published an extensive, multi-volume name index to the New York Times (some magnificent run like 1856 to 1975 or something). It was a reference librarian's dream work. The New York Times sued, claiming copyright infringement. My memory is that the NYT lost on the argument that this was a new work - or that the intellectual property of a new index wasn't infringement. Seems like that case might be relevant. Charles Anderson -----Original Message----- From: Indexer's Discussion Group [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of indexer@INETCOM.NET Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 11:46 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Marketing after-the-fact indexes During the geneology thread a few weeks ago, Mike Smith said that he had produced some indexes for older geneology books, thus getting around the copyright problem. I suspect this has been dealt with before so hopefully someone can provide a quick answer: what _are_ the copyright implications of writing and marketing an index to a more modern book still in print. What about older books still in print: say I wanted to sell my own index to Darwin's Origin of Species? Brief aside to illustrate what I'm thinking of: writing and marketing a creative work operates on a different paradigm than our normal indexing for hire; which (the latter) operates on a "time spent" or "pages indexed" model with respect to renumeration. A writer or after-the-fact indexer is freed from the constraint of the element of time as a value element; the concept of the "hourly wage" has a different (if any) meaning for such work. I'm thinking in terms of marketing very inexpensive indexes to books already out. Essentially all would be situations where for my own reasons I would like my own index to the work; either because there was no index in the book, or because I was not satisfied with the existing one. A typical selling price might be $1-5/index, making it an impulse type purchase. I can imagine impressive markets for indexes to certain fiction books that are highly popular and have cult-like followings, say Ann Rice to take just one example. [Her books may even be indexed; I have no clue since I consume no fiction whatsoever!!] Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:09:21 +0000 Reply-To: djulia@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennise Julia Subject: Re: Veni Vidi Vici Redux ROBJRICH@AOL.COM wrote: > > Hi - > > I like: > > "Veni, Vedi, Visa" > > (I came, I saw, I did some shopping!) > > Bob Bob, I like your version better than the original! (and that's just how I spent my weekend!) Dennise ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:37:24 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes I should think this would be the kind of index that could be best marketed on the internet. Index your cult classic work of fiction (Ann Rice or Ayn Rand) and find the web sites where cultists gather to exchange intense messages. Advertise your index, and the true cultists would beat a path to your door (or, more to the point, fire checks at your mailbox). Of course, you have to care enough about these books to do the work-- Ann Parrish Parrish Professional Indexing "It sounds like a great idea except for the difficulty in being timely-i.e. submitting an index at a time when a new edition is about to be published and the editor/publisher would be open to adding material to the book. Rebecca Rofman indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: I can imagine impressive markets for indexes to certain fiction > books that are highly popular and have cult-like followings, say Ann Rice to > take just one example. > > Kevin Mulrooney ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:14:36 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes At 08:37 PM 3/1/1999 EST, Ann Parrish wrote: >I should think this would be the kind of index that could be best marketed on >the internet. Index your cult classic work of fiction (Ann Rice or Ayn Rand) >and find the web sites where cultists gather to exchange intense messages. >Advertise your index, and the true cultists would beat a path to your door >(or, more to the point, fire checks at your mailbox). I agree. The only problem I see, particularly with older works that have undergone multiple reprintings and so forth, is attaching an index to a particular edition of the book. There's probably a practical way to create a "universal index" that would solve the changing-page-numbers problems, but I haven't thought of it yet. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:49:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Thanks for the ideas! Charles thanks for the great lead on a possibly relevant legal case. >I should think this would be the kind of index that could be best marketed on >the internet. Index your cult classic work of fiction (Ann Rice or Ayn Rand) >and find the web sites where cultists gather to exchange intense messages. >Advertise your index, and the true cultists would beat a path to your door >(or, more to the point, fire checks at your mailbox). > >Of course, you have to care enough about these books to do the work-- > >Ann Parrish In light of Sonsie's very good point about the "moving target" aspect of different editions, paperback vs. hardback etc., indexing fiction would clearly be the better approach from a marketing standpoint, and Ann's approach sounds great. I encourage fiction reader/indexers to give this some thought. However my goals are directed toward nonfiction scientific books in areas that I have intense personal interest as an aid to my own amateur scientific writing. > >"It sounds like a great idea except for the difficulty in being >timely-i.e. submitting an index at a time when a new edition is about to >be published and the editor/publisher would be open to adding material >to the book. > >Rebecca Rofman That's a good idea too Rebecca but not what the "indexer as writer" paradigm is about. Why cut the publisher in, as you'll see in a minute. So you manage to convince them your index to a fiction work is a good idea. Then they pay you x amount of money and that's it. You'll never get another cent from that project unless they do another edition or a softcover. But if you produce and market your own index to say an Ann Rice book or better yet the whole series..... Once the index is done your expenses to produce and sell it are only paper to print it and postage to send it, plus marketing expenses. An inexpensive booklet form would be more than satisfactory. Whatever you charge is essentially pure profit short of a marketing allocation; time spent producing the index is a thornier issue; but with just a bit of reflection you might see it as I do: a "virtual allocation" that ranges from huge for the first few books sold, to zero in the limit as the number of books sold gets big. Now imagine if just a tiny fraction of the (millions?) of Ann Rice readers buy your index. Say you appreciate the fact that a big attraction of the series is the sex so you index especially to the hot parts; this could open up all sorts of indexing-to-market approaches. This is a perfect example of a business idea that's just laying there for the picking. Publishers often see indexes as a necessary nuisance and would no doubt say "people will flock to the latest Ann Rice book whether or not it's indexed", and they would be absolutely correct from _their_ point of view and for their stockholders they would probably be doing the best thing to avoid the expense of an index to maximize stockholder value. Yet many a reader would beat a golden path to your door for a means to organize their vampiric compulsions. This approach combines the already established model of writing books marketed to organize complex compulsive activities, witness the "Nitpicker" Star Trek series, with the model of self-publishing. Alas I think there are many potential opportunities for after-market indexes of fiction, and if I was capable of spending 5 minutes reading fiction I would do it. I did recently manage to get down a few chapters of Red Harvest by Dashiel Hammet, but that was only after a friend's long lecture on the Butte Irish and how I ought to know this little tidbit of my Celtic heritage. Like Sonsie was saying as far as the variability of editions/versions, at a AAUW used book sale this week I found at least a half dozen different versions of Lincoln Barnett's classic The Universe and Dr. Einstein. I shudder to think of the number of different versions of Origin of Species there must be! My task on the scientific books is probably hopeless, not to mention the more limited market, and will probably have to be limited to creating indexes for my own use. Hmmm... Maybe I _could_ force myself to read some fiction.......But my favorite fiction when I did read fiction, The Lord of the Rings, [yeah yeah I know it was a cult thing when I was in college!!], had a very good index as I recall and doesn't need a new one. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:26:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Catalog indexing I may have a job working with a local company that does layouts (usually for textbooks) doing the index for a catalog - that is all I know at this point. They will probably want the index done embedded in Quark - I assume I will be able to use the software at the publisher's. Has anyone done catalogs? How do you charge? Iris Ailin-Pyzik ibap@crystalsys.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:28:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TennWords@AOL.COM Subject: TRG Spring Meeting SPRING MEETING OF TENNESSEE REGIONAL GROUP OF ASI The Tennessee Regional Group invites you to attend our Spring meeting. Our guest speaker, Richard (Dick) Evans, will be presenting his workshop: INDEXING COMPUTER MANUALS It is a full-day workshop and will be held on Saturday, April 3, 1999. His presentation will be mostly lecture using overhead transparencies with some hands-on exercises. Topics include: --What is an index? --Functions of an index --Indexing terminology --Identifying indexable material --Structure of an index --Editing an index --Evaluating and usability testing of indexes. While you will not end the day as a competent indexer, you WILL learn how to critique your current work and adopt a structured methodology for future work. DATE: Saturday, April 3, 1999 LOCATION: University of Tennessee at Knoxville College of Law (Taylor Law Center), Knoxville, Tennessee (room number will be posted at our web site, along with directions) COST: $75 (UT students may attend for $25, with ID.) This workshop has not been subsidized by ASI-National. REGISTRATION DEADLINE: March 26. Add $10 for late registration. TO REGISTER: Send your name, a way to contact you (telephone or email only), and a check made payable to Melinda Davis: Tennessee Regional Group c/o Dawn Spencer 168 Jones Street Rockwood, TN 37854 (423) 354-9601 tennwords@aol.com Requests for refunds must be made in writing and received by April 10. Refunds will be subject to a $25 processing fee and will be mailed by April 17. ABOUT THE PRESENTER: Richard (Dick) Evans is the owner of Infodex Indexing Services in Raleigh, NC. Dick specializes in indexing computer topics, a field for which he is particularly well suited, having spent 30 years with IBM before retiring and beginning his indexing business in 1992. Dick's interest in indexing is multifaceted and dates to the 1960s when, as a computer operator, he was often frustrated by the difficulties of finding information in computer manuals. In the early '80s, he was a technical writer dealing with the challenges of creating indexes for the manuals he wrote. By the late 80s, he was a systems analyst conducting usability tests on indexes to determine what made them easy to use. When he left IBM in 1992, he did contract technical writing while doing indexing on the side. He learned CINDEX and landed one steady client, a software corporation in Research Triangle Park, NC. By 1993, he had a second client, a publisher in Durham, NC, and when he landed his third steady client in 1994, he quit technical writing and became a fulltime indexer. He currently works out of his home and indexes over 60 titles and about 20,000 pages per year. He is also the President of the Carolina Chapter of the American Society of Indexers (ASI), on the Board of Directors of the national ASI, a candidate for Vice President of national ASI, and on the Board of Directors of the Carolina Chapter of the Society for Technical Communication (STC). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:08:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Catalog indexing At 07:26 AM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >I may have a job working with a local company that does layouts (usually for >textbooks) doing the index for a catalog - that is all I know at this point. > They >will probably want the index done embedded in Quark - I assume I will be able to >use the software at the publisher's. > >Has anyone done catalogs? How do you charge? > >Iris Ailin-Pyzik >ibap@crystalsys.com > > By the hour. Best way to go. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:09:16 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In-Reply-To: <199903011948.OAA00170@mail4.bellsouth.net> |During the geneology thread a few weeks ago, Mike Smith said that he had |produced some indexes for older geneology books, thus getting around the |copyright problem. I suspect this has been dealt with before so hopefully |someone can provide a quick answer: what _are_ the copyright |implications of |writing and marketing an index to a more modern book still in print. What |about older books still in print: say I wanted to sell my own index to |Darwin's Origin of Species? Putting aside the question of finding a market, I wouldn't think there would be any copyright problem. You could even republish the book, of course. | Brief aside to illustrate what I'm thinking of: writing and |marketing a creative work operates on a different paradigm than our normal |indexing for hire; which (the latter) operates on a "time spent" or "pages |indexed" model with respect to renumeration. A writer or after-the-fact |indexer is freed from the constraint of the element of time as a value |element; the concept of the "hourly wage" has a different (if any) meaning |for such work. I'm thinking in terms of marketing very inexpensive indexes |to books already out. Essentially all would be situations where for my own |reasons I would like my own index to the work; either because there was no |index in the book, or because I was not satisfied with the existing one. A |typical selling price might be $1-5/index, making it an impulse type |purchase. Except in a very specialized market (like genealogy), I have trouble imagining who would want to *buy* an after-market book index -- especially ordinary nonfiction monographs. (I've thought about this, too!) |I can imagine impressive markets for indexes to certain fiction |books that are highly popular and have cult-like followings, say Ann Rice to |take just one example. [Her books may even be indexed; I have no clue since |I consume no fiction whatsoever!!] This is exactly the sort of area where enthusiasts are likely to beat out the professionals -- because they know the subject so well, and because they usually aren't in it for the money. I was thinking, a few years ago, that the works of Robert Heinlein -- being rich in ideas & continuing themes and also literary & historical references -- would benefit from an index covering all the novels and short stories. About five months into the preliminary investigative work (done at odd moments as a hobby), I happened across the new publication announcement of Nancy Downing's _Robert A. Heinlein Cyclopedia_, which turned out to be exactly what I would have hoped to produce... I don't know that the few other authors to whom I am addicted would benefit from being indexed, but it's always in the back of my mind! Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:08:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Thomas Hayes Subject: chapters of the bible Hello all, I am indexing a street newspaper in Cleveland, OH. There are several instances of homeless persons quoting biblical passages. I was seeking advice on the best way of indexing them. For instance, one man has written an article weaving together his experience with a local church and Christ's breaking up the loaves of bread and fish to feed the masses--from Matthew 14: 14-20. Is it best just to make an entry under Matthew 14: 14-20 and then the modification and reference line? Would anyone recommend other access points for users--like Bible or Biblical Passages? Any help would be appreciated. Tom Hayes thayes2@kent.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:08:51 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: ASI 5-K Walk/Run If you are planning on attending the Indianapolis meeting, I would like to get a count of the number who will participate in the 5K walk/run. Please respond directly to me. I would also like a count of the number who want to attend the Wednesday night ball game. Sanindex@xsite.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:09:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Huerster, Robert" Subject: Re: chapters of the bible Tom, I'm curious, what is the name of the street paper you referred to? Bob Huerster (a former Clevelander). -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Hayes [mailto:thayes2@KENT.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 11:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: chapters of the bible Hello all, I am indexing a street newspaper in Cleveland, OH. There are several instances of homeless persons quoting biblical passages. I was seeking advice on the best way of indexing them. For instance, one man has written an article weaving together his experience with a local church and Christ's breaking up the loaves of bread and fish to feed the masses-from Matthew 14: 14-20. Is it best just to make an entry under Matthew 14: 14-20 and then the modification and reference line? Would anyone recommend other access points for users-like Bible or Biblical Passages? Any help would be appreciated. Tom Hayes thayes2@kent.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:38:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Schoun Subject: Re: ASI 5-K Walk/Run Negative on both for me. Will not be there during those times. Carol Schoun On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:08:51 -0600 Sandi Schroeder writes: >If you are planning on attending the Indianapolis meeting, I would >like to >get a count of the number who will participate in the 5K walk/run. >Please >respond directly to me. > >I would also like a count of the number who want to attend the >Wednesday >night ball game. > > >Sanindex@xsite.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:46:10 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: > > > > >"It sounds like a great idea except for the difficulty in being > >timely-i.e. submitting an index at a time when a new edition is about to > >be published and the editor/publisher would be open to adding material > >to the book. > > > >Rebecca Rofman > > That's a good idea too Rebecca but not what the "indexer as writer" paradigm > is about. Why cut the publisher in, as you'll see in a minute. So you > manage to convince them your index to a fiction work is a good idea. Then > they pay you x amount of money and that's it. You'll never get another cent > from that project unless they do another edition or a softcover. You've got to admit that the "reach" of publishers can be a convincing argument for cutting them in. And if you structure the deal right (an index of a series as a stand-alone book), then there are royalties (10% of 10,000 books sold, as opposed to 100% of 1000 books sold (minus) printing, marketing and mailing expenses). There is a lexicography of the works of Patrick O'Brien that is published by Norton, as well as a cook-book based on those works. An index is a perfect complement to these and I have been thinking of this for several years (even before starting training to become an indexer). Now I know how to do the indexing. The next step is putting a deal together. Has anyone ever "pitched" an idea for such a creation to an actual publisher? > Yet many a reader would beat a golden path to your door > for a means to organize their vampiric compulsions. This approach combines > the already established model of writing books marketed to organize complex > compulsive activities, witness the "Nitpicker" Star Trek series, with the > model of self-publishing. Of course, you do have a point here as well and self-publishing is a route worth exploring. As I recall, you've successfully done this before, right? And, having spent a little time on PMA-L (Publishers Marketing Association List), I can vouch for the viability of the Web for marketing self-published works. The idea is to recoup a fair price for your efforts. F'rinstance, in the case of the O'Brien series, the avg. length of each book is probably 300 pages. There are 19 books. To get fair market value for creating such an index, I'd like to recoup nearly $20,000US. At $9.95 per book, I'd have to sell nearly 3000 to break even. At $6.95, closer to 4000. There's a lot to think about here. Hazel Bell wrote an excellent article for _The Indexer_ (Vol. 21, Num. 1 April, 1998) on this topic. She voluntarily indexed a writer's entire works (35 books, mostly fiction, but also a biography, letters and autobiographical writings). This work was apparantly uncommissioned. I wonder if anyone knows if she has done anything with it (aside from using it, that is)? Thanks for bringing up this particular topic. It strikes home with me. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:05:29 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David Fagan (Write Stuff)" Subject: Indexing in HTML help ? anyone out there familiar with indexing in HTML help? trying to convert my existing index in WinHelp to HTML help for the new version of this top-secret software product for you-know-who in Redmond, WA. > Dave Fagan > Better Living through Indexing. l'Acadimie des Indexeurs > desktop finance division > "Nikola Tesla came over from Graz and went to work for Thomas Edison. Edison couldn't stand Tesla for several reasons. One was that Tesla showed up for work every day in formal dress - morning coat, spats, top hat and gloves - and this just wasn't the American Way at the time. Edison also hated Tesla because Tesla invented so many things while wearing these clothes." -Laurie Anderson, "Dance of Electricity", United States part 1 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:09:32 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Sonsie Conroy wrote: > > > I agree. The only problem I see, particularly with older works that have > undergone multiple reprintings and so forth, is attaching an index to a > particular edition of the book. There's probably a practical way to create a > "universal index" that would solve the changing-page-numbers problems, but I > haven't thought of it yet. This isn't really a practical suggestion, but perhaps Chapter and Paragraph #? I admit this is a problem, and most likely you'd have to specify in the intro to the index what edition you used. Some works do have definitive editions, though, so all is not lost. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:11:47 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: ASI 5-K Walk/Run In-Reply-To: <199903021641.IAA28177@neti.saber.net> PLEASE RESPOND DIRECTLY TO SANDI! >Negative on both for me. Will not be there during those times. Carol >Schoun ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** * http://www.asindexing.org http://www.onelist.com/archives.cgi/indexstudents ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:12:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: chapters of the bible/newspaper indexing In-Reply-To: <199903021610.IAA24729@neti.saber.net> >Tom Hayes wrote: >I am indexing a street newspaper in Cleveland, OH. There are several >instances of homeless persons quoting biblical passages. I was seeking >advice on the best way of indexing them. I just started a volunteer indexing project at the Public Library. We are indexing the local newspaper. They have set up a controlled vocabulary and I create a phrase describing the content of an artlcle, being sure to include as many words in the controlled vocabulary as possible. I'm not sure if this is the usual way newspapers are indexed(?) It seems to me the biblical quotes are not the important part of the newspaper artlele on the homeless and so I don't think I would index them at all. I look forward to discussion on this to help me along with my project, too. Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** * http://www.asindexing.org http://www.onelist.com/archives.cgi/indexstudents ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:11:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Indexing in HTML help ? Dave Fagan wrote: anyone out there familiar with indexing in HTML help? trying to convert my existing index in WinHelp to HTML help for the new version of this top-secret software product for you-know-who in Redmond, WA. Try downloading the HTML Help Workshop from Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/workshop/author/htmlhelp/default.asp); as I recall, one of the options that you're presented with when creating a new project is to convert an existing Winhelp project. Apparently the appropriate HHK file for the index will be created as a result of the conversion. John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:18:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In a message dated 99-03-02 12:47:43 EST, you write: << There is a lexicography of the works of Patrick O'Brien that is published by Norton, as well as a cook-book based on those works. An index is a perfect complement to these and I have been thinking of this for several years (even before starting training to become an indexer). Now I know how to do the indexing. The next step is putting a deal together. >> I pitched this to Norton last year. Got nowhere. Good luck. The project could be a good one. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:06:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David Fagan (Write Stuff)" Subject: Re: Indexing in HTML help ? Right you are, sir. You've done this before, yes? I got HTML help workshop to convert a WinHelp .hpj into an HTML project file (.hhp file?). Then I assume you have to follow the Help prompts for the program to show you how to make your index into an .hhk file. But before doing the steps to make my .hhk file, I've clicked on the index tab and notice some of my index entries look screwy because the program has broken up first level entries phrases with commas in the phrase into first and second level phrases. Have you ever seen this phenomena? Know a workaround? -----Original Message----- From: John R. Sullivan [mailto:John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 10:12 AM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Indexing in HTML help ? Dave Fagan wrote: anyone out there familiar with indexing in HTML help? trying to convert my existing index in WinHelp to HTML help for the new version of this top-secret software product for you-know-who in Redmond, WA. Try downloading the HTML Help Workshop from Microsoft (http://www.microsoft.com/workshop/author/htmlhelp/default.asp); as I recall, one of the options that you're presented with when creating a new project is to convert an existing Winhelp project. Apparently the appropriate HHK file for the index will be created as a result of the conversion. John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:26:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Patricia H. Gross" Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In-Reply-To: <199903020451.XAA15119@mx04.erols.com> Kevin Mulrooney >my favorite fiction when I did read fiction, The Lord of the Rings, [yeah >yeah I know it was a cult thing when I was in college!!], had a very good >index as I recall and doesn't need a new one. You might be pleased to know that the index to The Lord of the Rings was done as an after-the-fact index by an editor in England, I think. I know someone who knew the woman and had a manuscript copy of the index sometime around 1960-1962, a few years before it made it into the next edition of the book. At least this represents a model for people who want to market the after-the-fact index. Patricia Gross ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:33:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Patricia H. Gross" Subject: Re: chapters of the bible In-Reply-To: <199903021822.NAA03294@mx05.erols.com> Tom Hayes wrote: >I am indexing a street newspaper in Cleveland, OH. There are several >instances of homeless persons quoting biblical passages. I was seeking >advice on the best way of indexing them. I did an index for a book that contained poetry and prose of Emily Dickinson, and what I did was to avoid citing any of the specific books of the bible, but put everything under two broad entries, Biblical allusions, and Biblical quotations (the former was used when the topic seemed worth noting but it didn't quite seem like a quotation). Here are my run-in entries: biblical allusions: to David in 2 Samuel, 225; to definition of the Spirit, 196; to Jacob and the angel, 83-84; to King Solomon, 73, 236; to power as "between the / Kingdom and / the Glory," 221; to Revelation, 75, 259-260; to "two or three" gathered, 17 biblical quotations: "Boast not ... of Tomorrow" (Prov. 27:1), 236; "deny thyself, and take up thy cross..." (cf. Matt. 16:24 et al.), 11-12; "do it unto the / Glory..." (1 Cor 10:31), 228-229; "Eye hath not seen..." (1 Cor 2:9), 28, 29; "for what shall separate us from any whom we love" (cf. Rom. 8:39), 10; "God is a / jealous God..." (cf. Ex. 20:5), 192, 194; "last shall be first..." (Matt. 19:30, et al.), 57; "Little Children, love one another" (cf. 1 John), 52; "moth nor rust can reach them" (cf. Matt. 6:20), 17; "ninety and nine..." (Matt. 18:12-13), 50; "Not that we / loved him ..." (1 John 4:10), 190-191; seeing not "darkly, but face to face" (1 Cor. 13:12), 36; "Sown in dishonor..." (1 Cor. 15), 84, 85; "there is no sickness there" (cf. Rev. 21:4), 18; "The World / hath not known" (cf. John 1:10), 260; "We thank thee that thou hast hid..." (Matt. 11:25), 237; "where you go, I will go..." (Ruth), 24, 27 I disagree with Naomi Linzer's comment that the biblical quotations should not be included in the index. To me it seems a way of making clear that there is a thread of focus in the lives of the people being discussed that might not get noticed in other ways. I felt the same way in doing the index of Emily Dickinson. For a theological book there might be a reason for citing specific chapter and verse, but I think for most general works, it's best just to lump together under biblical quotations. I'm curious how other people respond. Patricia Gross ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:33:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Thomas Hayes Subject: Re: chapters of the bible In-Reply-To: <19990302161425Z67883-4093+964@outbound.Princeton.EDU> Hello again, Sorry all, the newspaper I am referring to is "The Homeless Grapevine," it was started in 1991, but was of low production quality. As of 1993, it became recognizable as a paper, with an excellent editor. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:15:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: chapters of the bible In-Reply-To: <199903021934.LAA18937@neti.saber.net> >Tom Hayes wrote: > >>I am indexing a street newspaper in Cleveland, OH. There are several >>instances of homeless persons quoting biblical passages. I was seeking >>advice on the best way of indexing them. >Patricia Gross wrote: >I disagree with Naomi Linzer's comment that the biblical quotations should >not be included in the index. To me it seems a way of making clear that >there is a thread of focus in the lives of the people being discussed that >might not get noticed in other ways. I felt the same way in doing the index >of Emily Dickinson. I appreciate your comments, Patricia. Sometimes I think I learn more about what NOT to do when I do these indexing projects staffed by volunteers and run by someone who is not a professional indexer--which turn out to be helpful in an odd-sort-of-way. The first project was indexing a set of papers donated to the library that were the basis for a book on local history. I can't even use my parts of the index for my resume because they were put on a crude database software program that didn't recognize duplicate entries etc. etc. But, just getting my feet we while I'm taking the USDA course and recognizing the limitations of the project were worth the time, to me. Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** * http://www.asindexing.org http://www.onelist.com/archives.cgi/indexstudents ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:32:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kat Hagedorn Subject: USDA course Hi all, I'm way behind on reading my INDEX-L mail, and apologies if this has been talked about recently. I wanted to find out how to sign up for the USDA course that has been talked about before on the list. I believe I have the right government acronym, but I may not. It's a beginning indexing course for people who want to learn to be indexers. Could anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks! ________________________________________ Kat Hagedorn :: Information Architect Argus Associates :: http://argus-inc.com 734-913-0010 :: kat@argus-inc.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:07:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William G Meisheid Subject: Re: Indexing in HTML help ? In-Reply-To: <199903021802.NAA23637@www.honza.com> >>anyone out there familiar with indexing in HTML help? trying to convert my existing index in WinHelp to HTML help for the new version of this top-secret software product for you-know-who in Redmond, WA. If you have an existing WinHelp, rtf-based project, with embedded K footnotes, then most help authoring tools will do the conversion for you. A lot depends on your source and tool, since one of the problems of the HHK file (index) is it links to a specific filename (topic id in WinHelp) and different tools (including HTML Help Workshop) translate those IDs to filenames differently, which would break the HHK file. ________________________________________________________ William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" WUGNET/Help Authoring Forum Sysop & Microsoft MVP Certified RoboHELP Training http://www.sageline.com Sageline Publishing 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.465.1812 70713.2225@compuserve.com or wgm@sageline.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:16:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laurie McBride Subject: Tech Svs Opportunities--Seattle, WA Dear Colleague: The Seattle Public Library, one of the most dynamic public libraries in the nation, is seeking top-notch candidates for two positions in our Technical Services Division. Attached is brief description of the two positions we are currently recruiting for. We would appreciate your sharing the enclosed job bulletin with anyone you believe might be qualified and interested in applying for these positions. Thank you, in advance, for any assistance you are able to provide. SEATTLE PUBLIC LIBRARY EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES These are exciting times for the Seattle Public Library (SPL). We are in the midst of major growth and expansion in technology, collections and capital projects, thanks to the voters of Seattle, our Foundation and Friends, and recent major donor gifts. In the coming year, SPL=92s materials budget will grow by millions of dollars. Currently, our Technical Services Division has two opportunities for employment: Technical Services Manager and Catalog Librarian. Below is more information about each position. Technical Services Manager (Mg. Lib. I) Full-time position --- Pay range: $53,602 - $65,042 Job Posting # 99-14 Closes at 5:30 PM on Tuesday, March 23, 1999 The Technical Services Manager supervises the staff responsible for the Library=92s bibliographic database, including acquisitions, cataloging, and processing. The incumbent will plan, organize and direct technical services staff and operations to ensure optimum workflow. This position coordinates cataloging and authority control, bibliographic maintenance, and physical processing. The Technical Services Manager will report to the Director of Technical and Collections Services, and act for the Director in her absence. This position will also work closely with Information Technology staff to articulate and resolve system related problems. Qualifications for this position include an MLS from an ALA-accredited library school, or Washington State certification as a librarian. In addition, directly related experience which includes a minimum of three years full-time, recent professional experience in technical services operations is required. Catalog Librarian --- Technical Services Full-time position -- Pay Range: $20.16-$24.47 per hour Job Posting # 99-15 Closes at 5:30 PM Tuesday, March 23, 1999. The Catalog Librarian will serve as lead cataloger and source of technical expertise on cataloging issues. Duties will require the incumbent to possess extensive knowledge of current cataloging standards, including DDC, AACR2 (revised), LCSH, and MARC formats for bibliographic and authority data, and ability to adapt these standards to local library databases. A critical component of the job will be the ability to communicate effectively with Information Technology staff to articulate and resolve system-related problems. This position will report to the Technical Services Manager. Qualifications for this position include a MLS from an ALA-accredited library school, or Washington State certification as a librarian. In addition, directly related technical experience which includes at least one year of full-time professional cataloging experience and various kinds of materials at all levels of difficulty is required. Interested? Please email human.resources@spl.org or call (206) 386-4120 to request an application. You can also check out more information about the job openings at our web site (www.spl.org). Seattle Public Library ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:33:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: USDA course In-Reply-To: <199903022135.NAA01971@neti.saber.net> >Hi all, > >I'm way behind on reading my INDEX-L mail, and apologies if this has been >talked >about recently. I wanted to find out how to sign up for the USDA course >that has >been talked about before on the list. I believe I have the right government >acronym, but I may not. It's a beginning indexing course for people who >want to >learn to be indexers. Could anyone point me in the right direction? > They have a nice web page which is located at: http://grad.usda.gov/corres/corpro.html ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** * http://www.asindexing.org http://www.onelist.com/archives.cgi/indexstudents ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:06:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Indexing in HTML help ? In-Reply-To: <199903021406.rdodmj.fi2.37kbi3u@mx10.mindspring.com> Part of the problem is the commas - you may have to rewrite those entries with commas before conversion. I never use commas in winhelp as separators or within the text of entries themselves. You are supposed to be able to set which separator character you are using, but even when I specify a colon, the winhelp compiler still will break entries with commas in the entry text. I just avoid the comma completely due to this bug. So you may have to rewrite those entries, as during the conversion something similar may be happening to you. I sometimes think it varies from version of winhelp converter to version of winhelp converter, cause some people can get the commas to work and be fine, and some can't. I've seen the comma breaking problem in officially-released microsoft help files, so it happens to them as well. Could be the conversion utility is running a particular help compiler that hates commas no matter what. Try a section without any commas in the entry text and see how it converts. If it is fine, then try rewriting the entries with commas to remove them, and see what that does. Jan Wright At 11:06 AM 3/2/99 -0800, you wrote: >Right you are, sir. You've done this before, yes? >I got HTML help workshop to convert a WinHelp .hpj into an HTML project file >(.hhp file?). Then I assume you have to follow the Help prompts for the >program to show you how to make your index into an .hhk file. But before >doing the steps to make my .hhk file, I've clicked on the index tab and >notice some of my index entries look screwy because the program has broken >up first level entries phrases with commas in the phrase into first and >second level phrases. Have you ever seen this phenomena? Know a workaround? > >-----Original Message----- >From: John R. Sullivan [mailto:John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM] >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 10:12 AM >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Subject: Re: Indexing in HTML help ? > > >Dave Fagan wrote: > > anyone out there familiar with indexing in HTML help? trying to >convert my > existing index in WinHelp to HTML help for the new version of this > top-secret software product for you-know-who in Redmond, WA. > > >Try downloading the HTML Help Workshop from Microsoft >(http://www.microsoft.com/workshop/author/htmlhelp/default.asp); as I >recall, one of the options that you're presented with when creating a new >project is to convert an existing Winhelp project. Apparently the >appropriate HHK file for the index will be created as a result of the >conversion. > >John Sullivan > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:58:57 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: The Indexer's WebRing In-Reply-To: I'm curious - what are the perceived advantages of a Web ring over a single Web page listing and describing (and linking to) indexers' pages? On the two occasions that I've gone looking for material on a Web ring I've found that many of the connections were broken and many more were to pages and sites that were irrelevant. One common approach was to announce "This site is in the XXX Web ring" without its actually having any content to do with XXX. It seemed to be more of a badge of membership than an indication of the material to be found there. Of course, indexers may be different ;-) But I'd be interested in others' experience of Web rings as a way of finding information. ------------------------------ Jonathan Jermey Webmaster, Australian Society of Indexers http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi > The WebRing is (finally) up and running (yes, correctly this time) at > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4537/indxr.html ... Anyone who tried > to join over the last couple weeks and got errors or no response, > please re-apply. Thanks :-) > == > RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:59:02 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In-Reply-To: The main problem I envisage is that one Ann Rice fan would buy the index (for $1 to $5). They will then announce on the mailing list that there is a great index around, someone will ask for a copy, and (in the great spirit of sharing without regard for intellectual property that exists on the Internet) the original purchaser will email the index to all and sundry. Since it is already separate to the book no-one will mind too much having a home-printed version instead of a nicely bound copy. Glenda. > > >I should think this would be the kind of index that could be > best marketed on > >the internet. Index your cult classic work of fiction (Ann Rice > or Ayn Rand) > >and find the web sites where cultists gather to exchange intense > messages. > >Advertise your index, and the true cultists would beat a path to > your door > >(or, more to the point, fire checks at your mailbox). > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:13:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: Re: tentative name selection I want to thank everyone who provided suggestions on the meaning of - Ave Finis - Which one will I use? I'll know when I finish writing the chapter, since I intend to end it with which ever meaning of -Ave Finis- seems most appropriate. Lawrence H. Feldman Lawrenc846@aol.com PS It is a SF novel I've been working on, betwixt and between, for the last ten years. This is chapter 6. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:29:17 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: QUERY: "Ananius"? According to the proofs of the book I am now indexing, the ancient Greek author Athenaeus in his Deipnosophistai cites the work of an earlier (pagan) author Ananius. That has to be Ananias, doesn't it? Or is it only in the New Testament that the name is given in its Greek form? Classicists, please advise! Also -- not that it matters for the index -- which translation do you prefer for the title: "Dons at Dinner" (Lempriere), or "The Philosophers at Dinner" (my author, and probably also his source, the Loeb edition), or "men learned in the arts of the banquet" (Howatson, Oxford Companion to Classical Literature)? Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer Hamilton, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:08:57 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In-Reply-To: A good field for voluntary work would be to index some of the online books in the Project Gutenberg collection (http://promo.net/pg). There are lots of classics here which are well out of copyright and are crying out to be indexed. I imagine that Michael Hart, who runs the project, would be more than happy to make online indexes available with the books. Selling them would probably not be an option, though. Jonathan. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:13:23 -0500 Reply-To: pobe@worldnet.att.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephen Pober Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes I would like to share with the list my own experience with after-the-fact indexes. We are a very, very small publisher. This past December we published our second book. It was a reprint of a bibliography of early books on science and technology. The original work had been published in the late 19th century and was in the public domain. It had been reprinted in the 1950s and again in 1980. The author had provided two separate indexes, the original reprinter had added a third index. The book was a horror to use. We combined the three indexes into one and added material never before indexed (about 500 additional entries). The book has been selling moderately well, including a sale to Harvard University, even though they already had both of the earlier reprints. We are currently working on several projects in which the main selling point is either an added or revised index. After-the-fact indexes will remain a mainstay of our business. Stephen E. Pober Publisher & Indexer Pober Publishing E-mail: pobe@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:39:08 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: chapters of the bible In-Reply-To: <199903021610.LAA29290@mail1.bellsouth.net> |I am indexing a street newspaper in Cleveland, OH. There are several |instances of homeless persons quoting biblical passages. I was seeking |advice on the best way of indexing them. | |For instance, one man has written an article weaving together his |experience with a local church and Christ's breaking up the loaves of |bread and fish to feed the masses--from Matthew 14: 14-20. | |Is it best just to make an entry under Matthew 14: 14-20 and then the |modification and reference line? Would anyone recommend other access |points for users--like Bible or Biblical Passages? | |Any help would be appreciated. | |Tom Hayes |thayes2@kent.edu It sounds like the person you mention was citing the story, not quoting it, and it was unattributed by him, right? I'd put it under "Biblical passages" or something similar. You don't even know that he's quoting the story correctly; he might be mixing several passages together. (I mean "you"-the-indexer in the ideal sense...) Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THESAURUS (n.): An ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:47:27 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Indexer populations Does anyone know a good source for statistics on occupations? Specifically, I am curious how many indexers there are in various countries. I would also be interested in knowing the membership numbers for the various Societies of Indexers. TIA, Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:41:12 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TShere7566@AOL.COM Subject: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Darn! I guess I have to drop this idea. :) I've been toying with it too. But recently I'd come to the conclusion that it was a solid year's work at least--probably more. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that we have a bunch of Patrick O'Brian fanatics on this list... Therese Shere Healdsburg, California Dan Connolly wrote: >There is a lexicography of the works of Patrick O'Brien that is published by Norton, as well as a cook-book based on those works. An index is a perfect complement to these and I have been thinking of this for several years (even before starting training to become an indexer). Now I know how to do the indexing. The next step is putting a deal together. And Sharon Hughes added that she had already pitched it to Norton. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:05:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: chapters of the bible Patricia Gross wrote: >Tom Hayes wrote: > >>I am indexing a street newspaper in Cleveland, OH. There are several >>instances of homeless persons quoting biblical passages. I was seeking >>advice on the best way of indexing them. > >I did an index for a book that contained poetry and prose of Emily >Dickinson, and what I did was to avoid citing any of the specific books of >the bible, but put everything under two broad entries, Biblical allusions, >and Biblical quotations (the former was used when the topic seemed worth >noting but it didn't quite seem like a quotation). Here are my run-in >entries: > I think this approach is beautiful. "Bible" isn't the best term since the story isn't "about" the Bible per se, nor is it "about" the Gospel of John per se either. What the references are "about" are Biblical allusions/quotations that frame these people's lives, so this is the perfect term. A note to that effect in the Index Notes would serve to direct people away from say "Gospel of John" or "John's Gospel" to the all-encompassing term Biblical allusions. I like the way she covers not just the Biblical reference but its topic in the same term. I agree with Patricia that these quotations may indeed be indexable in the right context. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:23:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Weiss Subject: Re: Indexer populations Does anyone know a good source for statistics on occupations? I think the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics would compile that type of information, at least for the U.S. Sue Weiss sweiss@tax.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:35:27 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Speisser Subject: Re: Indexer populations While I agree that the Bureau of Labor Statistics might be a good place to find this information, keep in mind that many occupations that are not as popular as doctor, lawyer, teacher sometimes get lumped under an umbrella heading. Nancy Speiser speisser@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:52:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gravitz Subject: WordPerfect to Cindex I've been lurking for awhile and have been impressed with how helpful you all are. Now I need help. A publisher I've indexed some books for is issuing a reprint that contains 40 pages of new material. He wants me to index the new 40 pp. The original 460 pages are on disk in WordPerfect. He wants to send me the disk with the original index and has already marked, on hard copy, the new page references. So I'd have to delete specific pages and replace with new ones (as well as index and add entries for the new material). Two questions: 1. How do I convert from WordPerfect to Cindex so I can make the changes? I have Cindex for Dos version 6. 2. How much should I charge? Thanks, Ina Gravitz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:15:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: WordPerfect to Cindex --------------90F531257753EF6F9829E590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A publisher I've indexed some books for is issuing a reprint that contains > 40 pages of new material. He wants me to index the new 40 pp. The > original 460 pages are on disk in WordPerfect. He wants to send me the > disk with the original index and has already marked, on hard copy, the new > page references. So I'd have to delete specific pages and replace with > new ones (as well as index and add entries for the new material). > Two questions: > 1. How do I convert from WordPerfect to Cindex so I can make the changes? > I have Cindex for Dos version 6. > 2. How much should I charge? > Dear Ina, Good luck with this, Ina. I am a dedicated Word Perfect user, but I use Macrex. I hope Cindex is more helpful with this problem than Macrex is. I think both programs are wonderfully flexible when producing a file that is to be used in another program, but it's next to useless when you need to convert a file into a format useable to the indexing program. On occasion when I have had to do this, I have used macros extensively to create a useable file. If any Macrex users out there read this and have found a solution to this problem, please share. Regarding charges - if it is a long process to create a useable file for Cindex, definately charge by the hour. If it's not, don't sell your technology cheaply - charge an appropriate flat project rate. Thanks and good luck Ina. Julie Grayson --------------90F531257753EF6F9829E590 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
A publisher I've indexed some books for is issuing a reprint that contains
40 pages of new material.  He wants me to index the new 40 pp.  The
original 460 pages are on disk in WordPerfect.  He wants to send me the
disk with the original index and has already marked, on hard copy, the new
page references.  So I'd have to delete specific pages and replace with
new ones (as well as index and add entries for the new material).
Two questions:
1. How do I convert from WordPerfect to Cindex so I can make the changes?
I have Cindex for Dos version 6.
2. How much should I charge?
Dear Ina,
     Good luck with this, Ina. I am a dedicated Word Perfect user, but I use Macrex. I hope Cindex is more helpful with this problem than Macrex is. I think both programs are wonderfully flexible when producing a file that is to be used in another program, but it's next to useless when you need to convert a file into a format useable to the indexing program. On occasion when I have had to do this, I have used macros extensively to create a useable file.  If any Macrex users out there read this and have found a solution to this problem, please share.

Regarding charges - if it is a long process to create a useable file for Cindex, definately charge by the hour. If it's not, don't sell your technology cheaply - charge an appropriate flat project rate.

Thanks and good luck Ina.
Julie Grayson --------------90F531257753EF6F9829E590-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:25:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Warning! Warning! Lengthy rant ahead. Does not compute. Warning! Warning! Some last thoughts on this; I promise no more rants on this. Dan Connolly wrote: >You've got to admit that the "reach" of publishers can be a convincing >argument for cutting them in. And if you structure the deal right (an index of >a series as a stand-alone book), then there are royalties (10% of 10,000 books >sold, as opposed to 100% of 1000 books sold (minus) printing, marketing and >mailing expenses). Dan as I said self-publishing is a gestalt switch experience. It is essentially impossible to understand until you experience the mechanics yourself; just like in the classic gestalt switch experiments where people are quickly shown playing cards with slight irregularities. Until the people have it explained to them in what way the cards are different (i.e. black hearts and red spades), none of them perceieve anything wrong, though some have a vaguely uneasy feeling. AFTER the gestalt switch, few fail to see it. For illustration I could perhaps use a story told me by a good friend Richard Daniels, a successful self-published producer of books of tablature for rock guitarists: Heavy Guitar Bible, Jimi Hendrix Note for Note, among others (he can be found at heavyguitar.com). He was in the usual prostration stage of trying to get his work published by conventional publishers, and he ended up meeting the guy (I forget his name) who wrote a whole series of almost cultish classics about VW repair from the late 60s and 70s. This guy showed Richard 2 numbers. One was what he made as a conventionally published writer, and the second was what he made after he started self-publishing. The difference was so incredibly vast that it was an automatic gestalt switch for Richard!! I know this won't convince you. In fact I know it can't in and of itself. Just consider it a free cognitive seed from one who _has_ been down that road. If I were you I'd forget about Norton. This situation is somewhat analogous to trying to pitch a toy idea to a toy company: generally speaking they want to have nothing whatsoever to do with you, but if you're stupid enough to pitch your idea without first patenting it you may soon discover it on the shelf with their name on it. Do it and publish it yourself if you want it to become a reality. Forget about them; that tired old paradigm, which works OK for some people, isn't necessarily _your_ destiny. > The idea is to recoup a fair price for your efforts. F'rinstance, in >the case of the O'Brien series, the avg. length of each book is probably 300 >pages. There are 19 books. To get fair market value for creating such an >index, I'd like to recoup nearly $20,000US. At $9.95 per book, I'd have to >sell nearly 3000 to break even. At $6.95, closer to 4000. There's a lot to >think about here. Yes and no. This type of economic analysis is fine for figuring out in broad terms if a given business idea is a good idea or not. But in a past life [I don't mean to imply reincarnation! I just use this phrase to mean: "long ago and far away"] when I was an engineer for Uncle Dupey (DuPont) I learned a much more powerful means of economic analysis that can be applied in certain non-commodity situations: the value in use pricing concept. The really big money is made on products like Kevlar where selling price has almost no relationship to production cost plus ROI, other than to say it's a whole boatload more. To understand the value in use concept, it's best to work backwards from the customer. If a tire producer can put $50 worth of Kevlar in a set of tires and convince people to pay outrageous sums of money for what are essentially "vanity tires", as in several hundred bucks apiece, he could care less how much it costs DuPont to make that Kevlar. The fact that it may only take DuPont a few bucks to produce what they sell for $50 is immaterial to the end user, this is rarely if ever known anyway. His only alternative is to make it himself or buy it from someone else, which in a patent-protected situation is impossible. So the standard economic analysis is only good for providing a "minimum profitable price", as a check. Any company that limited their price to the standard production costs plus ROI approach in this situation would be foolish. If "caught" companies will have all sorts of convincing mumbo jumbo about research costs, etc. which is just a bunch of BS. Drug companies are the classic examples of the use of this concept. I am making no value judgements here; value in use pricing is a perfectly moral means of economic trade and is merely an extreme example of supply and demand; my only negative reaction would be towards companies that dissemble about it. Unfortunately for a drug company to speak the truth about how they price a drug would be very politically incorrect as many people feel (incorrectly in my view) that value in use pricing is morally wrong. The only thing your economic analysis prooves is that if you choose to see it the way you have, it wouldn't be particular profitable. But there are alternate and in my opinion equally valid ways to view the work spent in producing a creative work. When writing my metal detecting book, I chose to view it as an enjoyable process that brought me great joy and relaxation, not as an hourly endeavor; thus the time element had no inherent "cost" to me. I haven't the slightest clue how much time I spent writing my book, and I could care less. If you wanted to use your analysis you might say I spent about 41 years of my life preparing to be a treasure hunter to write the book, so I'd need to price my book at say $10,000 apiece to "recoup" my time. Once it's done you have that forever and noone can ever take it from you, at least legally that is. There is significant value in use for a _good_ index, though this truth is unknown to all but indexers, bibliophiles and many good editors; this is probably why Norton could care less about your pitch and why the Web is a near total wasteland with respect to indexing. Furthermore you are in a situation similar to the high-tech example above in which producing an index is an endeavor not easily accomplished by the average person. It takes specialized knowledge and experience, although this isn't immediately apparent, even to intelligent folks. Witness the number of indexers that get hired after authors set out to "whip out a quick index" after the writing is done, and then see the error of their ways. This lack of general knowledge of the utility of a good index is indeed a marketing challenge, but not an insurmountable one in my opinion. At the root of the last paragraph is the reality that I have fundamentally different notions of time, value, and cost than you or even most people for that matter. That is natural. You are quite new at the freelance world [I know because Dan was one of several people who helped bail me out of name index psychosis last summer!! Some would say I've never recovered!] It is my opinion and experience that human conciousness can evolve just like bodily structure [see for example Phenomenon of Man by my man Teilhard de Chardin]. With time and most importantly a mind open to new cognitive schema, you may learn to see the world in a different way. Everyone has experienced the power of cognitive seeds: you all know the classic Hollywood plot trick: 1) Heroine is under the spell of a bad guy, and can't "see" what a jerk he is. The audience however is given the benefit of "seeing" what a jerk he is from the beginning, usually by observing some action of his away from the Heroine. Even when he proves it to her (his jerkness) she chooses to view his actions in a favorable light. 2) Hero confronts Heroine with truth of bad guy's jerkness (plants a cognitive seed). Yet Heroine resists and is not immediately able to process and "cognify" this truth, and continues to hang with the bad guy. [this is the nature of cognitive seeds and has been well established by cognitive psychologists; some see this as just the nature of the finite-time process of reconnecting neuronal networks.] 3) Heroine experiences gestalt switch after being exposed to some element of bad guy's behavior that NOW she can see as a manifestation of his jerk nature, ONLY AFTER being exposed to the cognitive seed of Hero (didn't mean for this to sound kinky!) 4) Heroine and Hero live happily ever after. Bad guy gets some sort of "just dessert". The reason this plot works so well is that it resonates with observable reality that many people have experienced. With this long post my only intent has been to plant some cognitive seeds. I fully appreciate that for 99% of people they will fall on barren ground; they will think to themselves "what a rant"; "what does anything this guy said have to do with ANYTHING, much less what we're talking about", "Value in What pricing? I don't recall reading about that in Samuelson's Economics", "remind me never to hire HIM as a indexer" etc. It is the very rareness of this fact that makes cognitive seeds so powerful for those who can cognify them. I suspect there is at least one person whose life has sent them along a complex series of roads taken such that they are primed for the acceptance of this seed; and for the benefit of that single person I am perfectly willing to make myself seem like a ranting moron. Such a person however is likely to be invisible to Index-L since they may be so excited with all the commercial possibilities that they are too busy __doing__ to send "yeah but" posts. The true difference between doers and "yeah but" folks is in their ability to ACCEPT and most importantly ACT on a new cognitive schema if they can satisfy themselves it resonates with observable reality. In fact the normal case is that such people have already been prepared with the observable reality part and they grasp and accept the cognitive seed almost instantaneously because at last they have a framework to understand their observations from. Who the heck is O'Brien? And perhaps you might want to think of smaller projects to test this approach! Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:57:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: The Indexer's WebRing Jonathan Jermey wrote: >I'm curious - what are the perceived advantages of a >Web ring over asingle Web page listing and describing >(and linking to) indexers' pages? Higher traffic: Any webring with more than 5 members is listed on the Starseed webring server, which gets high traffic from GeoCities and elsewhere. People frequently start at the webring server and look for a relevant webring as an alternative or supplement to search engines. The single-page listing you describe is a good resource (and there are several excellent ones out there) but the additional visibility for their members is only as good as the index page's visibility in search engines (or, of course, webrings :-) ). Better maintainability for a larger community: (When the ringmaster takes the responsibility; see below.) A webring is implemented as a database with utilities to add and update member information. All the single-page listings I've seen are just HTML code. For both single-page listings and webrings, the extent of the link lists and annotations (and how current they are) is limited by the page owner's or ringmaster's time & willingness to maintain it. The webring utilities make maintenance easier & more efficient. More flexible navigation: People browsing a webring have the option of going directly from site to site in the ring or of choosing from a short list of any 5 sites or from the entire ring index. (Of course, this assumes the ringmaster maintains the ring properly.) Also, when a page contains correct ring code but is not actually in the ring (the next/previous links don't work), you can still get from that page to the ring home page and to the index (list of all sites) for the ring. >On the two >occasions that I've gone looking for material on a >Web ringI've found that many of the connections were >broken and many more were topages and sites that were >irrelevant. The webrings you looked at were badly maintained. The ringmaster should be maintaining the ring to ensure member sites are relevant and the ring code on those pages works. If they are large rings, the ringmaster may be relying on the ring users to report problems. Please email the appropriate ringmaster with info on any irrelevant or disconnected pages you find via the ring links. A webring can get broken two ways: (1) people change their pages but don't remove them from the ring index and (2) pages are added without being reviewed. #2 can't happen in The Indexer's WebRing because I'm the only person who can add new members and I don't add a page until it's relevant and the ring links work. #1 "happens" and the way I keep up with such problems is to periodically surf the ring myself and to fix any reported problems ASAP. I have a fairly hard-nosed policy about irrelevant or broken pages on The Indexer's WebRing. They will be moved from the ring index to the ring queue as soon as I'm aware of them, and an email sent to the contact address. After a few weeks in the queue, URLs (whether new or demoted) are automatically removed and the URL owner must resubmit "from scratch" to rejoin the ring. Pages that are not in a ring's index can have ring code on them -- the ringmaster can't do anything about that -- but they are not linked from the ring index page or from any other member page via the ring code. == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:32:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In a message dated 99-03-03 14:21:35 EST, indexer@INETCOM.NET writes: << Who the heck is O'Brien? >> Oh my gosh!!.. Besides that,, thanks Kevin for a terrific article. Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:32:55 -0800 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Indexer populations ASI publishes a salary survey that includes statistics on indexers. Go to the ASI website. A copy is also included in some of their publications, such as "Starting an Indexing Business." Jean ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:57:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: WordPerfect to Cindex In-Reply-To: <199903031316.rdqv3r.lu1.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> At 01:15 PM 3/3/99 -0500, you wrote: > > Dear Ina, > Good luck with this, Ina. I am a dedicated Word Perfect user, but > I use Macrex. I hope Cindex is more helpful with this problem than > Macrex is. Best to send the file to the Cindex folks and have them convert it. Minimum cost about $50 for 2k entries. The alternative is to type it all in and charge them by the hour for your time. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:03:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In a message dated 99-03-03 14:21:35 EST, indexer@INETCOM.NET writes: << I know this won't convince you. In fact I know it can't in and of itself. Just consider it a free cognitive seed from one who _has_ been down that road. If I were you I'd forget about Norton. This situation is somewhat analogous to trying to pitch a toy idea to a toy company: generally speaking they want to have nothing whatsoever to do with you, but if you're stupid enough to pitch your idea without first patenting it you may soon discover it on the shelf with their name on it >> As I wrote to Dan, because Norton has a policy of responding to queries within 6-8 weeks and because I never got a response to my two queries, I felt that they might be avoiding a paper trail - for this very reason. They have CDs, an atlas, a cookbook, a companion volume, so they may well come out with an index. Its still a great idea whoever does it. Maybe Index-L'ers who are O'Brien fans should get together. Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:13:53 -0800 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: WordPerfect to Cindex I don't know if Cindex handles .rtf files or not, nor do you say which version of WP the file is in. However, if you have WP8 you can import any earlier WP (v4.1 and above) file from whatever version and then save it as an .rtf file. Maybe a Cindex user can hop in here and tell us if Cindex can import .rtf format files. Jeri Lee Gravitz wrote: > I've been lurking for awhile and have been impressed with how helpful you > all are. Now I need help. > A publisher I've indexed some books for is issuing a reprint that contains > 40 pages of new material. He wants me to index the new 40 pp. The > original 460 pages are on disk in WordPerfect. He wants to send me the > disk with the original index and has already marked, on hard copy, the new > page references. So I'd have to delete specific pages and replace with > new ones (as well as index and add entries for the new material). > Two questions: > 1. How do I convert from WordPerfect to Cindex so I can make the changes? > I have Cindex for Dos version 6. > 2. How much should I charge? > Thanks, > Ina Gravitz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:08:53 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: WordPerfect to Cindex On 3/3/1999 11:52 AM Gravitz wrote (in part): >A publisher I've indexed some books for is issuing a reprint that contains >40 pages of new material. He wants me to index the new 40 pp. The >original 460 pages are on disk in WordPerfect. He wants to send me the >disk with the original index and has already marked, on hard copy, the new >page references. So I'd have to delete specific pages and replace with >new ones (as well as index and add entries for the new material). >Two questions: >1. How do I convert from WordPerfect to Cindex so I can make the changes? >I have Cindex for Dos version 6. >2. How much should I charge? I had a similar situation last year and used Indexing Research (the Cindex people) for file conversion from WordPerfect to Cindex. Their costs were modest and I added them to the project cost with the publisher's permission. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:10:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: after-the fact indexes - O'Brien index This bounced back, if you got it twice, forgive me. << I know this won't convince you. In fact I know it can't in and of itself. Just consider it a free cognitive seed from one who _has_ been down that road. If I were you I'd forget about Norton. This situation is somewhat analogous to trying to pitch a toy idea to a toy company: generally speaking they want to have nothing whatsoever to do with you, but if you're stupid enough to pitch your idea without first patenting it you may soon discover it on the shelf with their name on it >> As I wrote to Dan, because Norton has a policy of responding to queries within 6-8 weeks and because I never got a response to my two queries, I feltthat they might be avoiding a paper trail - for this very reason. They haveCDs, an atlas, a cookbook, a companion volume, so they may well come out withan index. Its still a great idea whoever does it. Maybe Index-L'ers who are O'Brien fans should get together. Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:33:09 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Sharon Hughes wrote: > > In a message dated 99-03-03 14:21:35 EST, indexer@INETCOM.NET writes: > > << I know this won't convince you. In fact I know it can't in and of > itself. Just consider it a free cognitive seed from one who _has_ been down > that road. If I were you I'd forget about Norton. This situation is > somewhat analogous to trying to pitch a toy idea to a toy company: generally > speaking they want to have nothing whatsoever to do with you, but if you're > stupid enough to pitch your idea without first patenting it you may soon > discover it on the shelf with their name on it >> > > As I wrote to Dan, because Norton has a policy of responding to queries > within 6-8 weeks and because I never got a response to my two queries, I felt > that they might be avoiding a paper trail - for this very reason. They have > CDs, an atlas, a cookbook, a companion volume, so they may well come out with > an index. Its still a great idea whoever does it. Maybe Index-L'ers who > are O'Brien fans should get together. > Sharon Hughes I know we must be trying the patience of Index-Lers who could care less, so I promise to be brief and then move off list if necessary. I wouldn't be surprised if they were planning an index--as Sharon mentions, it would fit right in. They may be waiting for the final volume to be published (sometime in 2000?) to do it. Maybe we can beat them to the punch. Now, here's my question, and it's general in nature at this point. What are some of the things to watch out for if a group of us (say, 3 or 4) got together and did index these books? This would be a full subject name place index, as though it were a history book. I don't know if vocabulary could be controlled carefully--I would think we'd just index and try to mesh them together through editing. I promise to go away now. Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:55:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joel & Jay-Jay Flanagan-Grannemann Subject: Accounting/Invoicing/Time tracking for the Mac Hello. This is my first post to Index-l after about two and a half years of lurking. I just changed jobs, and am working as a Legal Assistant at a two-attorney law firm. I am the default computer guru. Only problem is, the office is on a Mac system, and I'm a PC person. I've managed to upgrade our memory and install a great legal-size scanner in the last week, but today the bosses asked me to find them an accounting/invoicing/time tracking program to handle all the billing tasks their overworked secretary has been doing by hand for the last eighteen years. I know TimeSlips is a great DOS-based PC program that attorneys seem to love, but I've never heard of a Mac favorite that I can recall. I tried searching the list archives, as I know this topic has come up every six months or so since I've been on the list, but I can't seem to hit on the correct search string to pull up what I'm looking for. If anyone has any favorite Mac accounting/billing programs to recommend, I'd be grateful for the suggestions. My bosses are very gung ho to upgrade at the moment, so I'd like to get something ordered by early next week. I've set my subscription to mail (I'm usually on digest) to get your replies. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you can give me! (Negative reviews are, of course, also welcomed!) Jay-Jay Flanagan-Grannemann jayjayandjoel@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:19:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Keith McQuay Subject: QuarkXpress index function Hi, I'm talking to a printer who wants me to index QuarkXpress files. Has anyone done this? How did it go? I believe that indexing is new to Quark and this is the first version that has this function. I downloaded the demo and am not sure what to make of it. I fear that once you get over 100 entries you can't see where you are in the damn thing. And I know that doing embedded indexing in a large document with software not designed for it can be as frustrating as using chopsticks while wearing boxing gloves! Thanks Keith McQuay FOREWORD Indexing 613-634-2669 Foreword@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~Foreword ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:54:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Jonathan, By classics, are you referring only to fiction or also to nonfiction? As a "newbie" I'm very interested in doing this kind of indexing for experience and to add to my "resume package". Can you provide any more details or should I just contact Michael Hart? Thanks, Rebecca Jon & Glenda wrote: > > A good field for voluntary work would be to index some of the online books > in the Project Gutenberg collection (http://promo.net/pg). There are lots of > classics here which are well out of copyright and are crying out to be > indexed. I imagine that Michael Hart, who runs the project, would be more > than happy to make online indexes available with the books. Selling them > would probably not be an option, though. > > Jonathan. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:44:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tony Davies Subject: Re: QUERY: "Ananius"? In-Reply-To: <199903030530.VAA01047@magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net> The name could well be Ananius (Latin spelling) or Ananios (Greek spelling.) Not a very Greek-sounding name, but not impossible. If in doubt, look at the Loeb edition, which has Greek one side, English the other, and which wouldn't be likely to make this kind of spelling mistake. As for the title, "Dons at Dinner" is a common translation, and pretty accurate, except that who knows what a Don is anymore? I don't much like the definite article in the title. Tony Davies Date sent: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:29:17 +1300 Send reply to: "Indexer's Discussion Group" From: Simon Cauchi Subject: QUERY: "Ananius"? Originally to: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > According to the proofs of the book I am now indexing, the ancient Greek > author Athenaeus in his Deipnosophistai cites the work of an earlier > (pagan) author Ananius. That has to be Ananias, doesn't it? Or is it only > in the New Testament that the name is given in its Greek form? Classicists, > please advise! > > Also -- not that it matters for the index -- which translation do you > prefer for the title: "Dons at Dinner" (Lempriere), or "The Philosophers at > Dinner" (my author, and probably also his source, the Loeb edition), or > "men learned in the arts of the banquet" (Howatson, Oxford Companion to > Classical Literature)? > > Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer > Hamilton, New Zealand > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:17:26 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In a message dated 3/3/99 3:11:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, SHughes512@AOL.COM writes: > > << Who the heck is O'Brien? >> > > Oh my gosh!!.. Besides that,, thanks Kevin for a terrific article. > Sharon Hughes > Don't feel alone, Kevin. I am clueless on O'Brien, too. We can't be the only two people in this boat?? Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:13:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Jonathan, As a trainee I'm very interested in this type of work for experience and to add to my "resume package". Can you provide anymore details or shall I simply contact Michael Hart? Thanks, Rebecca Jon & Glenda wrote: > > A good field for voluntary work would be to index some of the online books > in the Project Gutenberg collection (http://promo.net/pg). > Jonathan. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:16:08 +0000 Reply-To: djulia@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennise Julia Subject: Re: tentative name selection Lawrence, Congratulations on your novel progress, as it were. You are doing what most of us only dream of doing in our spare time... Best, Dennise Lawrenc846@AOL.COM wrote: > > I want to thank everyone who provided suggestions on the meaning of - Ave > Finis - Which one will I use? I'll know when I finish writing the chapter, > since I intend to end it with which ever meaning of -Ave Finis- seems most > appropriate. > > Lawrence H. Feldman > Lawrenc846@aol.com > > PS It is a SF novel I've been working on, betwixt and between, for the last > ten years. This is chapter 6. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:28:12 +0000 Reply-To: djulia@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dennise Julia Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes Ann Truesdale wrote: > > In a message dated 3/3/99 3:11:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, SHughes512@AOL.COM > writes: > > > > > << Who the heck is O'Brien? >> > > > > Oh my gosh!!.. Besides that,, thanks Kevin for a terrific article. > > Sharon Hughes > > > Don't feel alone, Kevin. I am clueless on O'Brien, too. We can't be the only > two people in this boat?? > > Ann Truesdale Ann, Ditto ditto ditto. The only O'Brien I know has to do with a way to cook potatoes. Dennise Julia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 05:45:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: WordPerfect to Cindex The key to converting from one file format to another is a combination of knowing what is required in the destination file (special characters & markers such as the tab which Cindex uses as a field separator) and the ability to recognize the patterns which will make it possible to do most of the work with Find/Replace and/or macros. I regularly assist in a wide variety of conversions -- I positively refuse to re-type something which is already stored electronically (or can reasonably be scanned in) and find that going from a word processor to Macrex to be the easiest of all. (Strange as it may seem, I have even done a number of conversion into Cindex though I must admit that I pass the file through Macrex because it has a couple features which make the conversions much easier for me.) Cindex for DOS uses a tab character as a field delimiter. Look at the layout of the index as presented in the word processor file and compare that to the working layout of the index were it in Cindex; each heading level (and the page numbers) is a separate field and each complete entry (heading, subheading, locator) is a single record. This indicates where the tabs belong and should guide you either to the specification of a find/replace or the development of macros. For example, if you have entries such as Main heading: Asubheading, 12-3 Bsubheading, 4 See also Other heading You might find the colon, HardReturn and spaces and replace them with a tab. Then you would find the HardReturn and space and replace them with HardReturn, main heading and tab. Once the entries are converted you should be able to either use a macro or a wild card find/replace to replace the comma and space separating heading text from locators with a tab. I wish I could be more specific but without seeing a piece of the index it is not possible to offer specific suggestions. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America voice: 650-756-0821 fax: 650-757-1567 Wise Bytes P. O. Box 3051 Daly City, CA 94015 macrex@aol.com www.macrex.cix.co.uk In a message dated 3/3/1999 10:48:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, igravitz@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US writes: << A publisher I've indexed some books for is issuing a reprint that contains 40 pages of new material. He wants me to index the new 40 pp. The original 460 pages are on disk in WordPerfect. He wants to send me the disk with the original index and has already marked, on hard copy, the new page references. So I'd have to delete specific pages and replace with new ones (as well as index and add entries for the new material). Two questions: 1. How do I convert from WordPerfect to Cindex so I can make the changes? I have Cindex for Dos version 6. >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:58:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: QuarkXpress index function At 08:19 PM 3/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > I'm talking to a printer who wants me to index QuarkXpress files. Has >anyone done this? How did it go? I believe that indexing is new to Quark >and this is the first version that has this function. I downloaded the >demo and am not sure what to make of it. I fear that once you get over 100 >entries you can't see where you are in the damn thing. And I know that >doing embedded indexing in a large document with software not designed for >it can be as frustrating as using chopsticks while wearing boxing gloves! > Keith, What demo did you download? QuarkXpress? I will be very interested to see what responses you get from this list, and your progress. I am working on a similar project. -You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads. Is that too much to ask? MJBarczak Washington, DC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:02:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Re: Marketing after-the-fact indexes In a message dated 3/4/99 2:34:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, Anntrue@AOL.COM writes: > > > Don't feel alone, Kevin. I am clueless on O'Brien, too. We can't be the only > two people in this boat?? > Funny you should mention *boat*. Because if this is Patrick O'Brian (with an a). It is a series of novels beginning with Master and Commander about Jack Aubrey, captain and Stephen Maturin, ship's surgeon set during the Napoleonic wars. Of course the discussion may be about another O'Brien, to which I apologize for the intrusion. Pamela Venneman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:04:22 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: QuarkXpress index function In-Reply-To: <199903032020.rdrnup.j8j.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> One other little fun feature -- you can see the index as it develops for each chapter, but you cannot see the indexing you have done in other chapters until the final compile. I found it extremely awkward to work with, and would suggest that you build the index in your own software, and then go back and embed it in the files when you have the wording complete and editing. Otherwise it will take you tons of time to edit it. Charge by the HOUR! Jan Wright At 08:19 PM 3/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > I'm talking to a printer who wants me to index QuarkXpress files. Has >anyone done this? How did it go? I believe that indexing is new to Quark >and this is the first version that has this function. I downloaded the >demo and am not sure what to make of it. I fear that once you get over 100 >entries you can't see where you are in the damn thing. And I know that >doing embedded indexing in a large document with software not designed for >it can be as frustrating as using chopsticks while wearing boxing gloves! > >Thanks > >Keith McQuay > >FOREWORD Indexing >613-634-2669 >Foreword@bigfoot.com >http://www.bigfoot.com/~Foreword > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:26:50 -0800 Reply-To: mamtong@tonghall.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Margaret A. M. Tong" Subject: Re: Accounting/Invoicing/Time tracking for the Mac My computer seized up when I tried to reply last night. I apologize if this has already appeared. We are a Mac household and use M.Y.O.B. Accounting Plus 8.O. It works well for those who bill by the hour. We buy all Mac software from Mac Warehouse. 1 800 255 6227 warehouse.com Hope this helps Margaret http://www.tcc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:37:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gale Rhoades Subject: Re: WordPerfect to Cindex The key to converting from one file format to another is a combination of knowing what is required in the destination file (special characters & markers such as the tab which Cindex uses as a field separator) and the ability to recognize the patterns which will make it possible to do most of the work with Find/Replace and/or macros. I regularly assist in a wide variety of conversions -- I positively refuse to re-type something which is already stored electronically -- and find that going from a word processor to Macrex to be the easiest of all. (Strange as it may seem, I have even done a number of conversion into Cindex though I must admit that I pass the file through Macrex because it has a couple features which make the conversions much easier for me.) Cindex for DOS uses a tab character as a field delimiter. Look at the layout of the index as presented in the word processor file and compare that to the working layout of the index were it in Cindex. This will tell you where the tabs belong and should guide you to the specification of either a find/replace or the development of macros. I wish I could be more specific but without seeing a piece of the index it is not possible to offer specific suggestions. In a message dated 3/3/1999 10:48:15 AM Pacific Standard Time, igravitz@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US writes: << A publisher I've indexed some books for is issuing a reprint that contains 40 pages of new material. He wants me to index the new 40 pp. The original 460 pages are on disk in WordPerfect. He wants to send me the disk with the original index and has already marked, on hard copy, the new page references. So I'd have to delete specific pages and replace with new ones (as well as index and add entries for the new material). Two questions: 1. How do I convert from WordPerfect to Cindex so I can make the changes? I have Cindex for Dos version 6. >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:09:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: WordPerfect to Cindex Gale, I was wondering whether or not you would see this - next time someone sends me an index on disk and I need to convert it to a Macrex .mbk file, I PROMISE I will call you! Thanks for letting us know it can be done ... done "easily"??? well, that's another matter altogether! The last one I got was supposed to have been in a word perfect format (my favorite), but alas, none of the italics were there! This must be why God invented Macros! Cheers for Macrex! Julie Grayson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:48:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: jobs from the web This is an informal survey of index-l members & associates, and as such is statistically meaningless, but I think the answers here would be of interest ... Please reply privately to rolybear@yahoo.com during the next couple of weeks. I'll "annonymize" your answers and summarize them to index-l. Those of you who have web pages advertising your indexing services: How much work (% of contracts, or # contracts per year) have come to you via the web? If you pay for web hosting separately from email, does your web page pay for itself? == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:57:22 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Brenda Herlevi Subject: Re: chapters of the bible In a message dated 99-03-02 14:34:47 EST, Patricia Gross wrote: << I disagree with Naomi Linzer's comment that the biblical quotations should not be included in the index. To me it seems a way of making clear that there is a thread of focus in the lives of the people being discussed that might not get noticed in other ways. >> I too disagree, especially upon reading later in the thread that this is a paper for/about homelessness (not just "the" local newspaper). Seems to me, in this regard, biblical references would be significant and worthy of mention in the index. Brenda ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:01:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Catherine Keenan Subject: Re: chapters of the bible hi there, I'm a lurker, newspaper indexer (at the moment), member of IASC and may have missed some of this thread. But I'm wondering first about "aboutness", term selection, and generally about what you put in a newspaper index. I'm asking myself, is the biblical passage the subject of the article? If yes, then you *must* include it in the index (if, of course, your indexing policy for the paper is that specific). Here we have my bottom line for inclusion. (If the person is discussing capital punishment, and the biblical stuff is an aside, then I'd leave it out.) As to term selection, -- i don't know if this is a closed system or if new issues of the paper are going to be added as the indexer works -- But in my experience, most newpaper subject vocabularies are open-system, controlled, and deliberately general. To use the earlier example: a story about religion and capital punishment, I'd probably assign ethics and cp to it. This is deliberately broad, because of the broad scope newspaper articles can take. Anyway, my point is, there's no way you'd see a list of biblical references in an index to newspapers because it's way too specific. For newspaper articles, you can't index anything -- especially biblical quotations -- just because it's there. This may seem ruthless, and I agree with Patricia that by not indexing these references, we are going to lose something significant here -- but I don't believe an index exists to explain the foundations of people's thoughts, -- why they think what they think -- but only those thoughts themselves, the content, the what. This is an open system perspective. And speaking of indexing newspapers, guess I'll go do it... catherine indexer/hurdy gurdy player toronto ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Claire Cloutier LeBlanc Subject: Job Op--O'Reilly & Associates Associate Indexer Wanted O'Reilly & Associates, Inc., a computer book publisher in Cambridge, MA, seeks an associate indexer. Must be available to work on-site in our office (some work may also be done at home). This position can be either full-time or part-time. Benefits included. The Associate Indexer will create embedded-tag indexes in Framemaker and possibly in other formats. Responsibilities include marking up hard copy, inserting index tags in files, generating indexes from completed files, and editing and revising indexes. The Associate Indexer will learn and implement house indexing standards. This is an ideal position for a beginning indexer seeking more experience, or for a veteran indexer who wishes to develop embedded indexing skills. Requirements: Some experience/training in indexing. Strong communications and conceptual skills. Close attention to detail. Must be comfortable with technical material. Framemaker and/or Unix experience desirable, but not essential. Bachelor's degree. If interested, please send a cover letter, resume, and short indexing sample (4 to 15 pages) to: Claire Cloutier LeBlanc Senior Production Coordinator O'Reilly & Associates, Inc. 90 Sherman Street Cambridge, MA 02140 617-354-5800 (phone) 617-661-1116 (fax) cleblanc@oreilly.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:31:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: automatic Web site indexing software I would like to do a comparison of automatic Web site indexing software with software that simply *aids* in the indexing process. There are a couple of software companies claiming that their software can create Web site indexes in "minutes". I downloaded a demo of one such program and ran it over a Web site. The results were tragic, as you all can probably imagine. Anyway.....I would love to demonstrate the difference in results on my Web site, and perhaps even write an article about it. Does anyone think that I could face a lawsuit if I completely tear up their product for all to see? Any ideas? Kevin Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:56:28 -0800 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: automatic Web site indexing software Kevin Broccoli wrote: > > There are a couple of software companies claiming that their software > can create Web site indexes in "minutes". > > I downloaded a demo of one such program and ran it over a Web site. > The results were tragic, as you all can probably imagine. I think I downloaded that software, too, Kevin! It's grossly misnamed, since what it generates is actually a concordance--and a pretty ridiculous one, judging from the example on their own web site. Computers are pretty lame at creating index *entries*--that really requires human involvement. On the other hand, computers are great at compiling indexes using the entries a human has created, leaving the human free to concentrate on the index entries themselves. HTML Indexer is dedicated indexing software that provides a true indexing environment. It spares you from having to type URLs and maintain them by hand. It shows you all your index entries (or any subset, sorted any way you want) as you work on them. And it embeds your index entries in the source files so the entries can easily be reused and the index easily updated. I hope Glenda Browne won't mind my quoting part of a message she sent me yesterday: I think it is important for people to understand that this is a tool for adding and formatting index entries... very much the sort of aid that Macrex or SkyIndex gives to data entry in print indexing. In his message, Kevin went on to say: > > I would love to demonstrate the difference in results on my Web > site, and perhaps even write an article about it. Does anyone > think that I could face a lawsuit if I completely tear up their > product for all to see? I'm no lawyer, so I couldn't say. Personally, I'd rather hear about anything you consider a shortcoming in our software, so we can have a chance to address it. In any case, I'm confident HTML Indexer can stand up under comparison to any "automated" indexing tool. --David ============================= David M. Brown - Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com ============================= N O W A V A I L A B L E ! http://www.html-indexer.com/ Try HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain real back-of-the-book indexes for web sites and other HTML documents. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:05:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: automatic Web site indexing software In-Reply-To: <199903041757.rdu3u1.o7l.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> Several years ago there was a product called Indexicon that professed to create back-of-the-book indexes with a single click of the mouse. Jessica Milstead and Nancy Mulvany did a pretty thorough debunking of it in a KeyWords article. Seems to me that a factual product review is pretty safe. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:14:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: automatic Web site indexing software In-Reply-To: <199903050106.UAA16586@smtp0.mindspring.com> Dick, Can't imagine why, but Indexicon is back from the grave [http://iconovex.com/products/indexicon/download.htm]. To be fair I haven't had a chance to analyze the new version yet -- can only hope it's better than the first, but I sort of doubt it. Susie Stephenson SLAIS/UBC Vancouver mss@interchange.ubc.ca On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Richard Evans wrote: > Several years ago there was a product called Indexicon that professed to > create back-of-the-book indexes with a single click of the mouse. Jessica > Milstead and Nancy Mulvany did a pretty thorough debunking of it in a > KeyWords article. Seems to me that a factual product review is pretty safe. > > Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:44:35 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: chapters of the bible In-Reply-To: <199903041859.KAA21214@neti.saber.net> I agree with everyone who disagreed with me, now that I know it is a paper for/about homelessness. I am a new indexer just completing the USDA course and threw out my two cents/went out on a limb to learn something. Naomi >In a message dated 99-03-02 14:34:47 EST, Patricia Gross wrote: > ><< I disagree with Naomi Linzer's comment that the biblical quotations should > not be included in the index. To me it seems a way of making clear that > there is a thread of focus in the lives of the people being discussed that > might not get noticed in other ways. >> > >I too disagree, especially upon reading later in the thread that this is a >paper for/about homelessness (not just "the" local newspaper). Seems to me, in >this regard, biblical references would be significant and worthy of mention in >the index. > >Brenda ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** * http://www.asindexing.org http://www.onelist.com/archives.cgi/indexstudents ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:25:54 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandi Schroeder Subject: Fw: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE6724.D7642260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Denise_Felch@cch.com To: SAnindex@xsite.net Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 4:23 PM >Thank you for all your help. > >(See attached file: Sr.Indexer fast 4194.doc) > ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE6724.D7642260 Content-Type: application/X-Lotus-Manuscript1; name="Sr.Indexer fast 4194.doc" Content-Disposition: attachment; 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