Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9901B" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 00:24:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Spam Do Mi wrote: << was thinking about blocking everything from Hotmail (I'm on AOL and get lots of yucky spam, a good proportion of it from hotmail addresses) and then I got a message from a friend with a hotmail address. >> Ditto. AOL is the pits when it comes to blocking spam. Whatever they're doing, it doesn't work! I had the same experience as Do Mi. I had a cousin who had a hotmail address who couldn't figure out why I was blocking "his" email, and got all bent out of shape about it, causing a minor family problem. Easily handled, but a good warning about blocking domain names. This technique is really a last resort when it comes to spam-control. And, of course, spammers are becoming more and more sophisticated about their email trail and covering up the true source of the email. I don't think there are any good answers. The freedoms inherent in freedom of speech (etc) make it difficult to control spam and spammers. Who has the right to block who, and why. Yes ... vive la "delete" button! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing in warm, sunny Phoenix, Arizona ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:39:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: You might > very well have a subheading Poland, political parties. Then the individual > people, political parties, important events, etc. will have their own main > headings. They will NOT be subheadings of Poland just because they're related > to Poland. Do you see the difference? Do Mi, I'm in the learning stages and I'm not clear about the difference. What would the subheading Poland, political parties look like? Would it be a cross-reference? or inclusive page references if that's reasonable? Would you also have subs of Poland, people, important events, etc. If so, what would they look like? Thanks, Rebecca Rofman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 00:43:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: artist credits, complicated I'm indexing a book consisting of photographs of a famous writer, with a couple of illustrated essays, almost a museum catalog, but there is no actual exhibition. The separate, photo essay portion contains photographs with long captions. The photographers must be indexed where they are credited for their photographs, but in most cases the photographer's lives are also discussed in one of the essays proper. I am using italic reference locators to indicate photographs. My question is this: Should the photographer credits be indicated in italic? The credits are referencing photographs, so my first assumption is yes. However, my question has to do with the fact that the italic reference locators then begin to take on two functions, 1) to indicate a photograph *of* someone, and 2) to indicate a photograph *by* someone. Does anyone have any ideas of whether I should just accept this imprecision or whether there may be a solution for it? Solutions needed quickly. Thank you, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:10:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: [2]artist credits, complicated Having now posed the question, I'm thinking the answer is, the reference locator refers to a photograph, regardless of the piece of information about the photograph that the index entry references. Did I answer my own question or are there other viewpoints? laughing, because so frequently it is the opportunity to pose a question that allows the answer to be perceived, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:21:48 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Thesaurus construction This time last year, I was looking for suitable software and consulted a local expert, Leonard Will. Ha has a vast store of information about a wide variety of programs, large and small, and is happy to give advice (free to me anyway). His address is: LWill@Willpower.demon.co.uk On taking his advice for my particular needs, I bought Multites from the firm in Miami, and I am very happy with it. Being me, I sometimes regret that it will not do indexing as well! But it does perform very satisfactorily at its proper job. The Windows interface seems to me to be a bit unusual, and I am about to suggest to the firm that might try to improve it a bit, but I should not let that detract from its good reputation. Hope this helps! Betty ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Mobile: 07771-615239 (Vodafone) ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:13:36 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Indexing legal materials In response to several recent messages, may I suggest that you might find at least something helpful in the Society of Indexers occasional paper: *Indexing Legal Materials*. It does not really deal with the indexing of primary materials, which is very much a matter for various national, state/provincial and local jurisdictions, but is aimed mainly at work on textbooks, legal practitioners' manuals, and suchlike. The 86 pages include chapters on (among others): Structure and design of indexes; Selecting and analysing subjects; Indexing terms; Forms of entries and references. It is still available from us, BUT I suggest that you watch our web site at www.socind.demon.co.uk, for details of our new office address, to which we are moving next week. Dorothy Frame, who has performed a wonderful service for us over many years, will shortly be resigning from her job as Sales Manager (honorary) and the sales will be handled from the new Sheffield office, once we have got ourselves sorted out. Prices are also shown on the web site - it still sells at 8 pounds basic, plus extra for overseas postage, and we DO accept cheques in US dollars. We also publish an occasional paper on *Indexing the medical and biological sciences*, which has no jurisdictional or geographic implications! Betty Moys, Treasurer, Society of Indexers ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Mobile: 07771-615239 (Vodafone) ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:41:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Indexing legal materials I'll second Betty's suggestion of seeing the materials on the ASI website, but may I also suggest the obvious: For technical information about how to handle specific legal indexing, use this list. I know that I'm one of several legal indexers who subscribe, and have found this to be a valuable resource. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:51:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: killer projects I'm currently working on the hardest index I've ever done (to a 777-page book on art history). As I think about what makes this one so hard, it occurred to me that it would be interesting (and perhaps educational) to hear about other indexers' difficult indexes (i.e., indexes that are hard in and of themselves not just due to the "youth" of the indexer). Or maybe I'm posting just because misery loves company. Here's what makes this one hard: 1. Arcane language, almost a private language (a translation from a 1932 collection of articles, in German) 2. Addenda to both the text and to endnotes; addenda are at a distance from the text they refer to; lots of flipping around to different parts of page proof set; addenda don't always pick up a term from the text and all you know is what page of the text (not what line) they refer to 3. Sloppy page proofs; illustrations moved to new pages and new page numbers written in (i.e., pages not always consecutive); successive page proofs until I finally put my foot down 4. Occasional use of Greek alphabet instead of transliterations 5. It's a collection of articles, written over a career, with the usual vocab-control problems Sheesh! I'm already on my second extension of the deadline, because I couldn't foresee all these difficulties. I'm very pleased with how it's all coming together (it's worlds better than the original German index), but the indexing is grueling nevertheless, and by Monday I'll definitely be ready for a bathroom break (just kiddin'). BTW, I'm getting $7 a page, which is still a fair price for this book. The book is not without it's charm. Here's one of my favorite passages from it: "The costumers . . . set to work to transpose all this ingenious and almost over-subtle symbolism from the realm of ideas into the crude reality of costume. The first difficulty was the coats of feathers, which could never be made for fifteen Sirens from expensive real feathers." I expect to be done by Monday or Tuesday. Anybody wanna go out for a drink? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:24:46 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Thesaurus construction software In-Reply-To: <915651113.105844.0@listserv.cuny.edu> In article <915651113.105844.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, on Wed, 6 Jan 1999 at 14:28:35, Susan Weiss writes >The publisher I work for is considering purchasing thesaurus construction >software. I have read several articles on the Internet about this type of >software, and I've also looked at some demo versions of one of the >products. I'd like to hear from any of you who have had some experience >with these products. What were the strengths and weaknesses of the product >you have used. Feel free to respond on- or off-list. I have a list of thesaurus construction software packages on the Web at with other pages giving background information on thesaurus construction and use, listing the features of the main PC packages, and giving a list of criteria that you can use in assessing software for this purpose. If anyone has views or information on strengths and weaknesses of the packages listed, or information about other packages that might be added, I'd be very glad to hear about them, on this list or by email. Regards Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk --------------- --------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:03:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pamela Venneman Subject: Re: Spam In a message dated 1/8/99 12:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, JPerlman@AOL.COM writes: > Ditto. AOL is the pits when it comes to blocking spam. Whatever they're > doing, it doesn't work! > FWIW... I am receiving a lot less SPAM since upgrading to AOL 4 several months ago. Pamela Venneman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 07:27:13 -0500 Reply-To: sholmes@smtp-2.mdc.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Holmes Organization: self Subject: This is not for distribution to the entire list List managers, Please see that I remain subscribed to INDEX-L, even though I recently replied to a spam asking that I be removed from that spam list and sent it back to INDEX-L. Thanks, Sarah Holmes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:38:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: challenging projects Hi Carol, I think my hardest project was also for an art history book (must say something about the field, no?), but it is an index I am really proud of. I had to index 70+ articles in a fesschrift, of which about a third were in French and German (but the index was only in English). So, not only did I have to translate the articles in order to index them (my art-historical French is good, but my art-historical German was too rough to handle it on my own, as the language of the German articles was esp. arcane also, so the client hired a translator to read the articles out loud to me while I indexed them in English!!), but I had to translate the names of archaic saints, sites, and so forth from German and French into English (when we could figure out just which saint, site, or so forth it was)..... plus cross-reference all.... plus keep straight all of the different rulers with the same names, not always identified in each article, which covered a wide range of subjects.... plus the book was a long and oversized monster, plus there were footnotes and endnotes, plus illustrations (coded in italics or bold, I think). Plus the note citations of the "codex" manuscripts was uneven, yet the editor wanted every manuscript cited the same way in the index (city, collection, codex number, with name parenthetically). Just deciding on the "correct" name for the European cities and their institutions took weeks (and never really was as consistent as I might have hoped for--why were some in foreign languages and some translated into English? Because of art historical tradition, of course!! Note: Unless you are an art historian, you couldn't possibly know some of this stuff..... goes back to my point about why a background in the subject area can be so important.) Yes, I nearly went insane, but also was well paid for the effort. This editor knows what is costs to hire a professional with the appropriate backgroun, and they never quibble about the price. In fact, I just finished another huge project for the same client, and the index for that book weighed in at a whopping 42 entries per indexable page (only 350 oversized pages, but even so, that came to almost 15,000 locators)! I spent nearly an hour per page on this most-recent project, mostly because I also was coding in the locators for text figures, b/w plate numbers, and color plate numbers. (There were 1,552 b/s plates, plus another 60 or so text figures.) And the subject was rather arcane: Byzantine illustrations of the first eight books of the Bible (the Octateuchs). The author had been working on the text since 1935!!! The editor is actually offering to pay me more than the agreed-on price because the job turned out to be so much bigger than either one of us imagined. (I love this guy.) These books are mighty challenging, but they are satisfying additions to one's bookshelf. I'm always just glad when they are done, as is the editor. But then, I feel like the index really is essential to the use of a book that no one is likely to read cover to cover. But the index to a book of arcane stuff had better nail the arcane stuff properly, or researchers will be cursing you for many years to come! One thing the editor told me about this most recent project is that the book will probably stand for 200+ years as a seminal reference. (It already was a seminal reference even in manuscript form.) That sure gave me cause for alarm when I felt like I was drowning in it. But now that it is almost done (the co- author is reviewing the index; the original author died a few years ago), I am happy to have been up to the challenge. I especially enjoy finding those few errors that occasionally remain in a manuscript like this, like finding a Greek word misspelled! Now that's when I feel like my rambling and broad education is being put to good use. :) So, yes, I'll meet you at the virtual pub for a stiff one (drink, that is). Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:46:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe I wrote: << You might > very well have a subheading Poland, political parties. Then the individual > people, political parties, important events, etc. will have their own main > headings. They will NOT be subheadings of Poland just because they're related > to Poland. Do you see the difference? And Rebecca wrote: << Do Mi, I'm in the learning stages and I'm not clear about the difference. What would the subheading Poland, political parties look like? Would it be a cross-reference? or inclusive page references if that's reasonable? Would you also have subs of Poland, people, important events, etc. If so, what would they look like?>> Let's see. You would have a subheading "Poland, political parties" only if political parties as a group were discussed under Poland for several pages and it worked as a part of your strategy to break up the Poland pages. In this particular book, there's a whole chapter on Poland, and it probably gets mentioned in the general chapters and in other countries' chapters. So let's assume that the Poland chapter starts with a description of the way democracy is working there these days, for three pages, and then a three-page discussion of the different political parties, the roles they're playing in politics, and their constituencies. Then there's a section about the economy, four pages long. Then there's a section on future prospects. In this case, my Poland heading might look like this: Poland economy, 52-56 future prospects, 56-60 government structure, 45-48 political parties, 48-51 There might also be subheadings for other things discussed in other chapters, and of course, if any of these four sub-topics were discussed (about Poland) in the other chapters, those pages would be added to the subheadings. So I might end up with: Poland democratic transition, 4-5, 7, 9, 11 (I'm inventing a first chapter that gives this history with all of the countries mixed up in it) economy, 52-56, 85-86 (there was a discussion about the Polish economy u nder some other country) future prospects, 56-60, 199, 200 (in the conclusion chapter the author mentioned the future prospects of Poland again, among other countries) government structure, 45-48 political parties, 48-51 relations with Germany, 10-13 relations with Baltic states, 60, 72-73, 80 (in this subheading I've gro uped pages from three imaginary chapters about three different Baltic states) Now, when I said "people, important events, etc." I meant the individual people and events; these would not be subheads but would be separate in the index. So I would have a main heading for Walesa, Lech, under the Ws, headings for each political party under themselves, etc. That's because these individual detail headings aren't likely to be helpful in breaking up the information in the Poland section. IF THEY WERE--if there were a whole section on a single political party or a single person or a single event, then that item would be appropriate as a subheading. The criteria is not the relationship to the main topic, but how it helps break up the information. Good for you for asking for clarification! Ask again if I've just muddied the waters. :-) Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:47:44 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe Addendum: I just looked at the original post and noticed that I forgot to use the actual subtopics under Poland, and invented my own instead. Oh well, you get the idea. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:52:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe Yes, I do now. Thanks a lot. Rebecca Rofman DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: > > Addendum: I just looked at the original post and noticed that I forgot to use > the actual subtopics under Poland, and invented my own instead. Oh well, you > get the idea. > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:59:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project Ilana, In a message dated 99-01-07 18:27:01 EST, you write: << If you are talking about an index saved as an rtf file you can create a script that notices the entries according to tabs. But again....it really depends on what is within the rtf file. >> The author I am working with has a manuscript including an extensive bibliography that has been produced on a Mac. I am a PC user and will index her book eventually. I know that when I save my PC-produced Word documents as rtf files, her Mac has no problem reading them. I am assuming that Mac docs can also be saved as rtf files, and that I will be able read her humogous bibliography electronically. The question is not can the index be saved as an rtf file, but whether her bibliographic Mac rtf file can be dumped into Excel? I believe this is what the original writer asked too. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:18:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Paula C. Durbin-Westby" Subject: Have my postings been "disappeared" ????? Hi there. How can I tell if the email I've sent has been posted or not? I never see my own postings on the list. Sometimes I know they are included because I get responses. At other times, they don't show up, no one responds, and I can't tell if anyone has received it or not. I sent one several days ago re: "names, listing of," and haven't seen that thread since! Paula C. Durbin-Westby dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:25:16 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: artist credits, complicated When I indexed a 4th edition of a photography textbook, I convinced the author that it was reasonable to create a separate Photo Credits page and pull the photographers whose work provided illustrations to this book from the Subject Index where the author had placed them in previous editions. He liked this solution, and it left just one reason for using italics in the Subject Index itself. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:28:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: [2]artist credits, complicated In a message dated 99-01-08 04:02:24 EST, you write: << Having now posed the question, I'm thinking the answer is, the reference locator refers to a photograph, regardless of the piece of information about the photograph that the index entry references. Did I answer my own question or are there other viewpoints? >> Perhaps, you may have answered it. I decided differently, as in my previous reply, because including the photographers as "by" names in the Subject Index made the index too long and diluted the meaning of Subject. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:30:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tempting Tear-Outs Subject: >>>>>> L@@K! Amazing Free Offer!!! Unbelievable, but True! <<<<<<< 56 To be removed from our mailing list, please send email to: temptingtearouts@1stconnect.com with the subject line of "remove." FOR MORE INFO: please "cut out" the below form on the "cut" lines shown, and fax it, for the fastest reply to: 1-718-227-9125 (this is a fax # in the USA) or send via smail (first class mail or airmail) to: Tempting Tear-Outs Att. Free-catalogue-by-email Dept 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200 Staten Island NY 10312-3828 USA SORRY, BUT.... our software is not set up to accept the below form via return email; WE CAN ONLY acknowledge forms sent in via fax or smail. --> IMPORTANT complete directions, to ensure that you get a reply, and more info follow, below the reply form and the catalogue options. *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* Name (First Middle Last): Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: Cellular (Mobile) Tel. #: Beeper (Pager) Tel. #: How did you hear about us (name of person/company who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referred by: Tempting Tear-Outs 010699-ls55-lafoubt-la Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: Catalogue version desired (list number of choice below): *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* CATALOGUE VERSION CHOICES: 1. 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If in doubt, please print it out darker before faxing it in. If we can't read it, we can't reply to you or send you our FREE catalogue. :-( 11. If this all seems too complicated for faxing, just do it the old fashioned way via smail!!! WHO WE ARE: Tempting Tear-Outs is an advertising company that brings potential new customers to the companies they advertise for. MORE ABOUT THE COMPANY MAKING THE FREE OFFER: The company making the offer is a magazine subscription agency based in the USA. They have over 1,100 popular USA titles available to be shipped to *any* country, including of course, to anywhere in the USA! They offer a FREE 1 yr. subscription to your choice of over 200 of the titles in their catalogue to any new customer using them for the first time. The dollar value of the freebies, based on the subscription prices directly from the publishers, ranges from $6.97 all the way up to $50.00! 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It includes the complete list of freebies, a complete list of all the titles they sell, as well as detailed descriptions on most of the titles, along with lists of titles by category of interest and their terms of sale. They will then give you a friendly, no-pressure, no obligation, 5-minute call to go over how they work and to answer any questions that you might have, as well as give you up-to-the minute price quotes on any titles you might be considering. They will call you in whatever country you live in, taking the time difference into account. As they like to emphasize the personal touch they give to each new customer, all first-time orders can only be done via phone, so they can answer all your questions completely and personally. Once you have placed your first order via phone, you will be able to place future orders and make inquiries on your account, get price quotes, etc., all via email, if that is most convenient for you. Within the USA, they accept payment via check over the phone, Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche. Overseas, they accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, Diner's Club and Carte Blanche, even if your credit card is a local one in local currency (that most merchants in the USA would not normally be willing to accept). That's our introduction of our client that we represent. We hope that we have piqued your interest and that you will take the next step to get their free catalogue! Thank you for your time and interest. -- Tempting Tear-Outs. For more info on advertising rates, please write us on your company letterhead, w/business card, via smail to: Tempting Tear-Outs, 3835 Richmond Ave. Suite #200, Staten Island NY 10312-3828, USA. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:53:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project In a message dated 99-01-08 12:35:52 EST, WordenDex@AOL.COM writes: << The question is not can the index be saved as an rtf file, but whether her bibliographic Mac rtf file can be dumped into Excel? >> Not directly. You have to pull the rtf into Word or WordPerfect or something similar then resave it as a text file.. delimited by commas or tabs or some symbol - with line breaks. then use Excel to convert it into an excel file. then save the result of your manipulations as a comma delimited file.. Then change the extension to .dat so CINDEX can read it. Awkward but the only way I know to do it. Maybe there are much more sophisticated methods out there. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:52:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Have my postings been "disappeared" ????? Hi Paula-- FYI I've had the same experience. I thought perhaps they've been "rejected" because my comments weren't "post worthy" since I'm still in training but then one appeared today with an answer. Felt good! Rebecca Rofman Paula C. Durbin-Westby wrote: > > Hi there. How can I tell if the email I've sent has been posted or not? I > never see my own postings on the list. Sometimes I know they are included > because I get responses. At other times, they don't show up, no one > responds, and I can't tell if anyone has received it or not. I sent one > several days ago re: "names, listing of," and haven't seen that thread > since! > > Paula C. Durbin-Westby > dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:57:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Have my postings been "disappeared" ????? Do you have your subscription set to copy you on your own postings? It defaults to NOT copying you, presumably on the assumption that you know what you've sent. Changing the setting is on the card of list commands. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Barry Rofman [SMTP:edick@HOME.COM] > Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 2:52 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Have my postings been "disappeared" ????? > > Hi Paula-- > > FYI I've had the same experience. I thought perhaps they've been > "rejected" because my comments weren't "post worthy" since I'm still in > training but then one appeared today with an answer. Felt good! > > Rebecca Rofman > > Paula C. Durbin-Westby wrote: > > > > Hi there. How can I tell if the email I've sent has been posted or not? > I > > never see my own postings on the list. Sometimes I know they are > included > > because I get responses. At other times, they don't show up, no one > > responds, and I can't tell if anyone has received it or not. I sent one > > several days ago re: "names, listing of," and haven't seen that thread > > since! > > > > Paula C. Durbin-Westby > > dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:53:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Have my postings been "disappeared" ????? Not sure what the culprit is here, but you might not have index-l set to send you copies of your own posts. I think you can send a "query index-l" message to the listserv address to find out what the current settings are; correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall the appropriate message to specify that you get copies of your own posts is "set index-l repro" (again, sent to the listserv address). John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: Barry Rofman [SMTP:edick@HOME.COM] > Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 2:52 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Have my postings been "disappeared" ????? > > Hi Paula-- > > FYI I've had the same experience. I thought perhaps they've been > "rejected" because my comments weren't "post worthy" since I'm still in > training but then one appeared today with an answer. Felt good! > > Rebecca Rofman > > Paula C. Durbin-Westby wrote: > > > > Hi there. How can I tell if the email I've sent has been posted or not? > I > > never see my own postings on the list. Sometimes I know they are > included > > because I get responses. At other times, they don't show up, no one > > responds, and I can't tell if anyone has received it or not. I sent one > > several days ago re: "names, listing of," and haven't seen that thread > > since! > > > > Paula C. Durbin-Westby > > dwindex@louisa.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:31:13 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: artist credits, complicated In-Reply-To: <199901080837.AAA03107@nccn.net> At 12:43 AM 1/8/99 -0800, Victoria Baker wrote: >I'm indexing a book consisting of photographs of a famous writer, with a >couple of illustrated essays, almost a museum catalog, but there is no >actual exhibition. The separate, photo essay portion contains photographs >with long captions. The photographers must be indexed where they are >credited for their photographs, but in most cases the photographers' lives >are also discussed in one of the essays proper. > >I am using italic reference locators to indicate photographs. My question >is this: Should the photographer credits be indicated in italic? The >credits are referencing photographs, so my first assumption is yes. > >However, my question has to do with the fact that the italic reference >locators then begin to take on two functions, 1) to indicate a photograph >*of* someone, and 2) to indicate a photograph *by* someone. Does anyone >have any ideas of whether I should just accept this imprecision or whether >there may be a solution for it? Hello Victoria: I too would want to distinguish photographs from discussions of photographs, and to distinguish photographs *by* from photographs *of*. This could be done, space permitting, by including "photograph by" or "photographs by" subheadings after the names of the credited photographers -- and possibly including "photograph of" or "photographs of" subheadings after the names of the photograph subjects as well -- in addition to italicizing all the actual photograph locators. Alternatively, it just struck me that using the gloss or qualifier "(photographer)" after the photographers' names might do the trick. I would also consider annotating references to captions with "c" or "(c)", and italicizing the annotations along with the locators. All the best, Michael P.S. BTW, in the index of one profusely illustrated book that included headings with lots of subheadings I italicized the "photograph", "drawing", and "painting" subheadings themselves to distinguish them from the topical subheadings. Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:46:05 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: killer projects Wow, that is some project! << 5. It's a collection of articles, written over a career, with the usual vocab-control problems >> I had a similar problem with a botany index. Sometimes a plant's scientific name has changed. I have some botany texts in my library that help me identify them, but could never catch them all. Luckily the editor is a botanist. I sent him a list of just my main headings to see if he could catch any name changes I missed. Where appropriate, we crossed referenced from the old name to the new one. For some entries (including countires with name changes during the period the text covered) we decided to leave the information posted under the name the country had at the time of the plant study, and use "See also..." (I know that seems counter to the idea indexers should gather information together.) Given the audience, university ethnobotanists, that seemed best. It had the advantage of giving a bit more information. Upon seeing what version of the name was used, the reader knows what time period the material refers to. The editor prefered that solution to using: New Country Name (Old Country Name) Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:46:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: artist credits, complicated In a message dated 99-01-08 03:37:00 EST, you write: << However, my question has to do with the fact that the italic reference locators then begin to take on two functions, 1) to indicate a photograph *of* someone, and 2) to indicate a photograph *by* someone. Does anyone have any ideas of whether I should just accept this imprecision or whether there may be a solution for it? >> Very good question. I am glad you posted it. Diane's idea for a Photo Credits page is good. Integrating the information with the index seems more appropriate for your project. If I read your description correctly, the reader will be aware that the book contains photos OF one person BY many people. If so, it shouldn't be confusing at all to use italics for both "of and by" as the nature of the book indicates the distinction to the reader. Perhaps a carefully worded head note could handle it. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:46:18 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ASI publications (a mini commercial) In a message dated 99-01-07 11:25:05 EST, you write: << Lori's latest note on ASI's Web page mentions several ASI publications. She does not mention two recent and one forthcoming pubs that are equally important to indexers. Last May, "Indexing Specialties: History," >> Thanks for posting that. I had intended to buy that earlier this year, but got swamped with getting ready to move and lost my note. I'll try to get that done today. Micki Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:27:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: artist credits, complicated In-Reply-To: <199901082048.MAA11998@pacific.net> I wrote: ><< However, my question has to do with the fact that the italic reference > locators then begin to take on two functions, 1) to indicate a photograph > *of* someone, and 2) to indicate a photograph *by* someone. Does anyone > have any ideas of whether I should just accept this imprecision or whether > there may be a solution for it? >> Micki wrote: >Very good question. I am glad you posted it. Diane's idea for a Photo >Credits page is good. Integrating the information with the index seems more >appropriate for your project. > >If I read your description correctly, the reader will be aware that the book >contains photos OF one person BY many people. If so, it shouldn't be confusing >at all to use italics for both "of and by" as the nature of the book indicates >the distinction to the reader. Perhaps a carefully worded head note could >handle it. Yes, you understand this particular situation correctly. I was thinking that a headnote would be in order (beyond the usual "page numbers in italic denote photographs") and just a few more words, I think, will do it. Thank you, and thanks to everyone who has responded... all food for thought. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:28:19 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Disaster Due to following misleading instructions (not from Index-L) I have lost my collection of index-l messages, including instructions how to use it, names of moderators, the lot. If someone could send me fresh instructions I would be grateful. I will want to download archives too, sometime, in case they include messages I wanted to keep. _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:31:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Oops! At 11:55 PM 1/7/1999 EST, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: >I was thinking about blocking everything from Hotmail (I'm on AOL and get lots >of yucky spam, a good proportion of it from hotmail addresses) and then I got >a message from a friend with a hotmail address. Do Mi, see if your friend has another email address...many people (like me) have several. And there's always Juno...it's free, it's email, it does the job. Other than that, I don't know enough about AOL mail block to be able to tell you if you can do a "reject all BUT..." kind of command about a hotmail address. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:04:01 -0800 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Saturday the 23rd As no one has indicated that the 23rd is NOT okay with them, I think we can collectively agree on the 23rd! Now as to the time: 12:00 Noon for lunch for those wanting lunch there (they've got some really nummy stuff!), and 1:00 p.m. for those not wanting lunch (or unable to make it over the pass in time); is this okay with everyone? I would like a head count just in case we go over 12. It's really not a big deal for them as they're used to literary gatherings of all kinds. The place: Elliott Bay Bookstore in Pioneer Square. Jeri ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:09:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Indexing Legal Materials Hello Betty I'm Patrick. :-) Could you please re-post the information about the pamhlet on, "Indrxing Legal Materials" as i have deleted it. Thanks! :-) Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:33:58 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: DOS Brian wrote: > > Windows 98 will be the last Microsoft operating system based on DOS. The > core, or kernel (as computer geeks call it), of Windows has been DOS, > but NT uses a different kernel. I can pull up DOS on my NT machine but > it is not part of the operating system. I don't know how well this works > as I've never used it. Get used to it folks DOS is the past. > In my very limited experience, DOS programs run horribly slow under NT. We had a DOS veterinary software program at my former clinic & when the network server died the consultant I hired installed a new one with NT. We had him back the *next day* demanding a faster solution, which was WIN95. Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:34:01 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Spam In a message dated 1/8/99 12:30:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, JPerlman@AOL.COM writes: > > Ditto. AOL is the pits when it comes to blocking spam. Whatever they're > doing, it doesn't work! > I have been online with the same AOL address for at least 3 years and get practically no spam! What is that song from _The Sound of Music_? Somewhere I must have done something good, or something to that effect. Feeling very lucky - so far. Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 20:34:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Dragon NaturallySpeaking microphone? Hi, Someone who uses NaturallySpeaking posted information about the microphone she has found to give the best results. I am sure I saved it but where?? I would be grateful if someone could forward that information to me. Thanks! Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:51:25 -0800 Reply-To: ljm2001@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Re: Indexing Legal Materials PDepri5514@AOL.COM wrote: > > Hello Betty > > I'm Patrick. :-) > Could you please re-post the information about the pamhlet on, "Indrxing Legal > Materials" as i have deleted it. > > Thanks! :-) > > Patrick Patrick, you can find the archives of index-l, which contain messages previously posted on index-l, at: http://www.indexpup.com/index-list/index.html That way you can look up all the messages that you delete and then want to reread. Laura ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 17:56:25 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Have my postings been "disappeared" ????? In-Reply-To: <199901081712.JAA11144@neti.saber.net> >Hi there. How can I tell if the email I've sent has been posted or not? I >never see my own postings on the list. Sometimes I know they are included >because I get responses. At other times, they don't show up, no one >responds, and I can't tell if anyone has received it or not. I sent one >several days ago re: "names, listing of," and haven't seen that thread >since! >> >>Paula C. Durbin-Westby >>dwindex@louisa.net >> >>At 01:54 PM 6/18/98 +0100, David Amundson wrote: >>> I tried to post a message on index-l recently, but it didn't >>appear. Are >>>messages vetted for appropriateness? If so, what period of time can one >>>expect to elapse between posting and reappearance on my screen? >>> >>> >> >>The message appeared; if you don't have your settings for e-mail set at >>REPRO (copy of message sent to you) or ACK (your posting is acknowledged), >>you won't know if the message appeared or not. >> >>To do this, send a message to the listserver at >>LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU (not the list!) as follows: >> >>SET INDEX-L ACK >> >>or SET INDEX-L REPRO >> >>***************************************** >> >>Cynthia D. Bertelsen >>Freelance Indexer >>Bertelsen Indexing Services >>cbertel@usit.net >>Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html > >***************************************** resent by Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:43:19 +1100 Reply-To: intohistory@ozemail.com.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: FW: Help needed I'm forwarding a message from Ralph Reid - please reply to him direct (the address is below) rather than me. Jonathan -----Original Message----- From: Ralph REID [mailto:intohistory@ozemail.com.au] Sent: Friday, 8 January 1999 20:56 To: Diagonal@bigpond.com Subject: Help needed Hi Jeremy I couldn't see anywhere on the site to send an email to the Society as such, so I picked on you. I wanted to know if any of the experts know of a thesaurus applicable to Australian local (regional) history. Is there any way I can get to ask this question of the experts? Regards Ralph Reid Sydney ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 23:31:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Literature subheads Hi, All - First time posting a question ... Am creating a mega index for an 800 page history of American Literature book. My question is regarding separation of "types" of subheadings under author main heads. Following the Chicago Manual of Style, titles of works are grouped together and separate from "miscellaneous" subject sub-heads. My question is, are short stories and/or essays grouped together and separate from titles of books (book titles are italicized while short stories and essays are in quotes). I can't find any specifics on this in the Chicago Manual of Style - anyone have any definitive answer on this? Thanks in advance. Julie Grayson -- Julie Sherman Grayson 554 W. Orvilla Road Hatfield, Pennsylvania, USA 215-855-7560 juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:03:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Oops! Yes, Sylvia [& group], I got something like 6 copies of the Tear-Outs stuff. Whoever wrote that crap doesn't seem to be playing with a full deck.... Dave Talcott ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:08:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Oops! << Do Mi, see if your friend has another email address...many people (like me) have several. And there's always Juno...it's free, it's email, it does the job. Other than that, I don't know enough about AOL mail block to be able to tell you if you can do a "reject all BUT..." kind of command about a hotmail address. >> Thanks, Sonsie, I didn't think of this. The problem is that this was a friend I hadn't been in touch with--the email came out of the blue and I wouldn't have known to make an exception to it. I took this experience as a reason not to block any whole domain. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 21:00:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe Do Mi, On rereading your post I do have a further question-- You wrote: > > The criteria is not the > relationship to the main topic, but how it helps break up the information. > >\Isn't the index user going to look up a topic based on its "relationship to the main topic" or do you assume they will first look for it as a main heading? Rebecca Rofman ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 00:13:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Literature subheads Julie wrote: << My question is regarding separation of "types" of subheadings under author main heads. Following the Chicago Manual of Style, titles of works are grouped together and separate from "miscellaneous" subject sub-heads. My question is, are short stories and/or essays grouped together and separate from titles of books (book titles are italicized while short stories and essays are in quotes). I can't find any specifics on this in the Chicago Manual of Style - anyone have any definitive answer on this? >> I've always mixed them (in alphabetical order), and that's been acceptable to all of the lit crit publishers I"ve worked for. Whether it's definitive is another question, though! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:16:50 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: > I have been online with the same AOL address for at least 3 years and get > practically no spam! What is that song from _The Sound of Music_? > Somewhere I must have done something good, or something to that effect. Another spin on the spam question arises from a piece in the current issue of .net - some unsolicited stuff is sexually explicit and if it gets stored on your computer in any form you could be done, not only for possessing it, but making it. This is another reason for needing to be in control of what is happening when downloading email or surfing the net. Some stuff may need not only to be deleted but 'shredded' - the memory area written over. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:16:50 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Disaster Many thanks to all who have helped me over this. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:14:24 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Re: Literature subheads I, too, mix the genres (coding so none sort on A, An, or The), though I put them as subsubs under a subhead "works" and word all my other subheads (or else force the sort) so "works" followed by the titles falls last. One argument for mixing them is that some readers won't necessarily know the genre, just the name of a work. Of course, if there are very many locators for one work, I break that out into it's own main heading with a cross-reference from the author. Margie Towery Towery Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:03:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Amundson Subject: DOS: not yet dead In-Reply-To: <199901090135.UAA11172@jane.penn.com> Brian said: >> Windows 98 will be the last Microsoft operating system based on DOS. The >> core, or kernel (as computer geeks call it), of Windows has been DOS, >> but NT uses a different kernel. I can pull up DOS on my NT machine but >> it is not part of the operating system. I don't know how well this works >> as I've never used it. Get used to it folks DOS is the past. Then Ann Truesdale said: >In my very limited experience, DOS programs run horribly slow under NT. We had >a DOS veterinary software program at my former clinic & when the network >server died the consultant I hired installed a new one with NT. We had him >back the *next day* demanding a faster solution, which was WIN95. ___________________ Actually, DOS isn't dead at all. Caldera is developing products around DOS, including their stand-alone OS named DR-DOS. You can run this in addition to other OSs if you want. Caldera even has a web browser that runs from DR-DOS (from any DOS I think), called DR-WEBSPYDER. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: daplaine@clarityconnect.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Plaine Subject: Re: 1.Moderator has returned; 2.change of address for archives Dear Charlotte, I need to take a break from the listserv and here is my problem. I tried to sign off right after changing internet servers. So the message came from my new server and I got a reply saying that I was not a member. But I am still getting the messages because they are being forwarded by my old service. Here is the info. Old email address: app4@cornell.edu New email address: daplaine@clarityconnect.com Name: Anne Plaine phone: 607-272-7294 Please take me off the Index-L listserv. Thanks for your help. Anne Plaine ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:38:18 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: using databases for large indexing project Sharon, In a message dated 99-01-08 15:13:22 EST, Sharon Hughes wrote: << Awkward but the only way I know to do it. Maybe there are much more sophisticated methods out there. >> It may be awkward, but it appears worth doing to avoid rekeying elements in a bibliography of over 1000 entries. Thanks much. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:08:20 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Radcliffe Medical Press (UK) From Christine Headley A friend is writing a book for Radcliffe; I am doing some editoral work for her and wondering whether to offer to index the book as well. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has been commissioned by Radcliffe to do an index (or anything else). TIA Christine Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 12:43:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: Literature subheads --------------F7EAF05BC91872FC9E54FBA5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margie Towery wrote: > I, too, mix the genres (coding so none sort on A, An, or The), though I put > them as subsubs under a subhead "works" and word all my other subheads (or > else force the sort) so "works" followed by the titles falls last. One > argument for mixing them is that some readers won't necessarily know the > genre, just the name of a work. > > Of course, if there are very many locators for one work, I break that out > into > it's own main heading with a cross-reference from the author. > Thanks, Margie for the suggestion of "works of". However, there is an "aversion" to the third level entry, so I will just keep them together. Aesthetically it doesn't look tidy because you have quoted entries mixed with italicized entries, but that is just my compulsive personality doing its thing. -- Julie Sherman Grayson 554 W. Orvilla Road Hatfield, Pennsylvania, USA 215-855-7560 juliesg@ix.netcom.com --------------F7EAF05BC91872FC9E54FBA5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margie Towery wrote:
I, too, mix the genres (coding so none sort on A, An, or  The), though
 I put
them as subsubs under a subhead "works" and word all my other subheads (or
else force the sort) so "works" followed by the titles falls last. One
argument for mixing them is that some readers won't necessarily know the
genre, just the name of a work.

Of course, if there are very many locators for one work, I break that out
into 
it's own main heading with a cross-reference from the author.
Thanks, Margie for the suggestion of "works of". However, there is an "aversion" to the third level entry, so I will just keep them together. Aesthetically it doesn't look tidy because you have quoted entries mixed with italicized entries, but that is just my compulsive personality doing its thing.

--
Julie Sherman Grayson
554 W. Orvilla Road
Hatfield, Pennsylvania, USA
215-855-7560
juliesg@ix.netcom.com
  --------------F7EAF05BC91872FC9E54FBA5-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:07:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Indexing with FrameMaker A colleague who is a wizard with Frame but knows nothing about indexing has asked me to help her create an index in a Frame document. I know next to nothing about Frame indexing, except that it uses embedded tags (markers) for index entries. She first asked me to "just highlight the indexable words" and she would create the markers. I explained why that was not feasible and proposed that I do a CINDEX index and give it to her in page order. She replied that she would not know where exactly to place the markers. I'm going to meet with her later this week, but in the meantime, does anyone have any practical suggestions for the scenario I've described? I remember several years ago Lynn Moncrief told about literally cutting up a CINDEX index and pasting the entries on the document to be indexed so the Frame user would know where to put the markers. I don't consider that a practical solution. How precisely must the markers be located? Do they have to be exactly on the indexed word or would the beginning/end of the paragraph be sufficient? In MS-Word, I consider the paragraph level to be sufficient. Is there a feature in Frame (as there is in Word) to turn on line numbering? If so, perhaps I could use the line number as part of the CINDEX locator. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:35:01 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe Rebecca wrote: << You wrote: > > The criteria is not the > relationship to the main topic, but how it helps break up the information. > >\Isn't the index user going to look up a topic based on its "relationship to the main topic" or do you assume they will first look for it as a main heading? >> Hi Rebecca--good question. I assume that the reader will look under the topic they're interested in. If they're interested in Poland in general, they will look there, and then they will need the many pages about Poland put into some kind of order so that they don't have to read the whole chapter to find smaller pieces of information. If they're interested specifically in the Catholic Church or Lech Walesa, they will look under that (and Catholic Church or Catholicism, as well as specific names of people, and parties as we discussed before, would definitely have a main heading in this index). If they're is wanting to find out about Lech Walesa, they shouldn't have to go to Poland first--they should be able to go directly to his name. Now, it wouldn't be a disaster if they looked under Poland and then found Catholic Church (or whatever). The problem with using this as a ^criteria^ is that you can easily end up with long lists of subheadings all on the same page. Of course each subheading is related to its main heading. But that can't be the ^only^ criteria, or your breakdown of the main heading won't be helpful. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:51:46 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Literature subheads Julie wrote: << Thanks, Margie for the suggestion of "works of". However, there is an "aversion" to the third level entry, so I will just keep them together. Aesthetically it doesn't look tidy because you have quoted entries mixed with italicized entries, but that is just my compulsive personality doing its thing. >> Actually, this is usually the exception to the "no third-level subentries" rule. (A rule that the publishers I've done this for go by--ooh, bad syntax!) Usually lit crit indexes are run in; "Works," in italics, comes after the last subentry and just continues the paragraph. Shakespeare, William: fear of burglary, 15-16; as thief, 20. ^Works^: ^All's Well That Ends Well,^ 48, 51-53; ^Hamlet,^ 80-84; Sonnet 45. ^See also^ Macbeth As you can see, I do it exactly as Margery does. Macbeth has too many page references to be a subhead and has its own main heading. (By the way, the conceptual subentries are real ones from the book I'm currently indexing!) I really wouldn't mix them together--the Works thing is pretty standard (either that or putting all of the works as main headings under their titles, with a "see also specific works" from the author). Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:21:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Frank Stearns Subject: Re: Indexing with FrameMaker In-Reply-To: <199901091807.KAA10799@mail.pacifier.com> from "Richard Evans" at Jan 9, 99 01:07:22 pm > A colleague who is a wizard with Frame but knows nothing about indexing has > asked me to help her create an index in a Frame document. I know next to > nothing about Frame indexing, except that it uses embedded tags (markers) > for index entries. > How precisely must the markers be located? Do they have to be exactly on > the indexed word or would the beginning/end of the paragraph be sufficient? How long is the paragraph? Are they allowed to wrap across a page? We normally suggest markers at the head of a paragraph unless there's a specific item (word or phrase) that you want to make sure gets the proper pg# associated. In that case, the marker should go just at the leading edge of that word or phrase. > Is there a feature in Frame (as there is in Word) to turn on line > numbering? If so, perhaps I could use the line number as part of the > CINDEX locator. Cumbersome, perhaps. You might consider our tool set for creating and editing markers in FrameMaker, IXgen. IXgen is *not* an auto indexer, though it has some semi-auto features to get a good starting index. IXgen's primary strengths are in its ability to get around the clunky native interface to the marker system in FrameMaker and give you many ways to edit markers. For more information IXgen, including fully functional demos, white paper, documentation, and datasheet, visit the IXgen section of our web page (URL in signature block below). + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | Frank Stearns Associates | Developers of Tools for FrameMaker(r): | | mailto:franks@fsatools.com | IXgen, FM2A, Programmable Export Kit | | 360/892-3970 fx:360/253-1498 | Now shipping IXgen 5.5 for Windows!! | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | http://www.pacifier.com/~franks (Email if web page access problems) | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:45:53 -0500 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Indexing with FrameMaker This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016C_01BE3BDE.C1EF0C40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been doing stuff like this all the time, when I contract a = freelance indexer to write an index for a FrameMaker book that O'Reilly = & Associates is producing in-house. In fact, I've gotten good at doing = both sides of the process, too. Here's the basic algorithm: The person writing the index can write the index using whatever tools = he/she wants. When finished, that person must then mark up hard copy of = the book, using pointers and margin notes to identify where the index = entries need to be placed for accurate page numbering (more below). To = accomplish these two steps, the indexer should have two copies of the = manuscript: one for them to mark up as they work, and one to mark up and = return to the client. This way the client receives only a final and = neatly written version. In order to mark up the copy for the client, the index must be able to = create a final index with the entries in page order. This way the = indexer can include each entry one page at a time. Most indexing = software allows for this. However, there are two pitfalls. First, page = ranges appear only once in page number order, but the location of the = range endpoints must still be included in the manuscript. Second, if = identical entries with different page numbers are included in the same = record (for example, if there is only entry "computers, 35, 45" and not = two entries, "computers, 35" and "computers, 45" in the index database), = the higher page numbers may not sort individually. Thus records should = not be combined. It's worth noting that the process the indexers goes through seems quite = redundant. The indexer must index the entire book, from start to finish, = and then edit the index so that it becomes quite final (no typos, cross = references checked, and so on). Then, even though the index is = effectively finished, the indexer must basically "rewrite" the index in = page number order. Keep this in mind when you work, and develop = shortcuts if you can. One possibility is to number each index entry in = page number order, 1 through whatever. (Some indexing applications can = do this for you.) Then instead of writing the entire entries in the = margins of the hard copy, use only the entry numbers. This makes your = job easier, because you only have to type or write each entry once. = However, it does make the client's job a bit harder, since they have to = work with the files, the page-order index, and the hard copy with = numbers at the same time. When the indexer is finished, he/she will provide the client with (a) = the finished index in alphabetical order, so the client knows what the = final product should resemble; (b) the marked up copy for tagging, with = entry notes in the margins and pointers; (c) a page-order listing of all = entries; and (d) a floppy disk with the necessary files, as backup. With this documentation received, the client now much embed the index = information into the FrameMaker documentation. This will be effective = only if (a) the entries are clearly marked and legible; (b) the page = number order is accurate, and range endpoints are marked; (c) the = insertion points are clearly marked and "close enough" for accurate = pagination. You asked what "close enough" means. The ultimate goal is to have every = page reference correct, even though the document has likely reflowed. = Here are the guidelines that I use. If the index entry points to a word = (such as a term just introduced), I point to the word itself. If the = entry related to a concept, I point to the beginnings of sections, = paragraphs, or sentences -- whichever is appropriate. For ranges, I like = to end ranges at the ends of sections, paragraphs, and sentences as = well. Range are particularly tricky, however, because of reflow. A paragraph = that stands entirely on one page when you index it might end up on two = pages in the final document. The opposite is possible. So I use this = rule of thumb, which has never gotten me into trouble: If the range of = information being indexes *could* run onto *three* pages, then index it = as a range. Otherwise, trust that readers will know to continue reading = until they run out of information. This way your client doesn't type in = range information for things like paragraphs, too. One last note: cross references don't have page numbers, so they can go = anywhere into the FrameMaker book. It's useful to keep all the cross = references in a separate list. - Seth -----Original Message----- From: Richard Evans To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L = Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:07 PM Subject: Indexing with FrameMaker A colleague who is a wizard with Frame but knows nothing about indexing = has asked me to help her create an index in a Frame document. I know next = to nothing about Frame indexing, except that it uses embedded tags = (markers) for index entries. She first asked me to "just highlight the indexable words" and she would create the markers. I explained why that was not feasible and proposed that I do a CINDEX index and give it to her in page order. She replied that she would not know where exactly to place the markers. I'm going to meet with her later this week, but in the meantime, does anyone have any practical suggestions for the scenario I've described? I remember several years ago Lynn Moncrief told about literally cutting = up a CINDEX index and pasting the entries on the document to be indexed so = the Frame user would know where to put the markers. I don't consider that a practical solution. How precisely must the markers be located? Do they have to be exactly on the indexed word or would the beginning/end of the paragraph be = sufficient? In MS-Word, I consider the paragraph level to be sufficient. Is there a feature in Frame (as there is in Word) to turn on line numbering? If so, perhaps I could use the line number as part of the CINDEX locator. Dick ------=_NextPart_000_016C_01BE3BDE.C1EF0C40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've been doing stuff like this all = the time,=20 when I contract a freelance indexer to write an index for a FrameMaker = book that=20 O'Reilly & Associates is producing in-house. In fact, I've gotten = good at=20 doing both sides of the process, too. Here's the basic = algorithm:
 
The person writing the index can write the index = using=20 whatever tools he/she wants. When finished, that person must then mark = up hard=20 copy of the book, using pointers and margin notes to identify where the = index=20 entries need to be placed for accurate page numbering (more below). To=20 accomplish these two steps, the indexer should have two copies of the=20 manuscript: one for them to mark up as they work, and one to mark up and = return=20 to the client. This way the client receives only a final and neatly = written=20 version.
 
In order to mark up the copy for the = client, the=20 index must be able to create a final index with the entries in page = order. This=20 way the indexer can include each entry one page at a time. Most indexing = software allows for this. However, there are two pitfalls. First, page = ranges=20 appear only once in page number order, but the location of the range = endpoints=20 must still be included in the manuscript. Second, if identical entries = with=20 different page numbers are included in the same record (for example, if = there is=20 only entry "computers, 35, 45" and not two entries, = "computers,=20 35" and "computers, 45" in the index database), the = higher page=20 numbers may not sort individually. Thus records should not be=20 combined.
 
It's worth noting that the process the indexers goes = through=20 seems quite redundant. The indexer must index the entire book, from = start to=20 finish, and then edit the index so that it becomes quite final (no = typos, cross=20 references checked, and so on). Then, even though the index is = effectively=20 finished, the indexer must basically "rewrite" the index in = page=20 number order. Keep this in mind when you work, and develop shortcuts if = you can.=20 One possibility is to number each index entry in page number order, 1 = through=20 whatever. (Some indexing applications can do this for you.) Then instead = of=20 writing the entire entries in the margins of the hard copy, use only the = entry=20 numbers. This makes your job easier, because you only have to type or = write each=20 entry once. However, it does make the client's job a bit harder, since = they have=20 to work with the files, the page-order index, and the hard copy with = numbers at=20 the same time.
 
When the indexer is finished, he/she will provide = the client=20 with (a) the finished index in alphabetical order, so the client knows = what the=20 final product should resemble; (b) the marked up copy for tagging, with = entry=20 notes in the margins and pointers; (c) a page-order listing of all = entries; and=20 (d) a floppy disk with the necessary files, as backup.
 
With this documentation received, the client now = much embed=20 the index information into the FrameMaker documentation. This will be = effective=20 only if (a) the entries are clearly marked and legible; (b) the page = number=20 order is accurate, and range endpoints are marked; (c) the insertion = points are=20 clearly marked and "close enough" for accurate=20 pagination.
 
You asked what "close enough" means. The = ultimate=20 goal is to have every page reference correct, even though the document = has=20 likely reflowed. Here are the guidelines that I use. If the index entry = points=20 to a word (such as a term just introduced), I point to the word itself. = If the=20 entry related to a concept, I point to the beginnings of sections, = paragraphs,=20 or sentences -- whichever is appropriate. For ranges, I like to end = ranges at=20 the ends of sections, paragraphs, and sentences as well.
 
Range are particularly tricky, however, because of = reflow. A=20 paragraph that stands entirely on one page when you index it might end = up on two=20 pages in the final document. The opposite is possible. So I use this = rule of=20 thumb, which has never gotten me into trouble: If the range of = information being=20 indexes *could* run onto *three* pages, then index it as a range. = Otherwise,=20 trust that readers will know to continue reading until they run out of=20 information. This way your client doesn't type in range information for = things=20 like paragraphs, too.
 
One last note: cross references = don't have page=20 numbers, so they can go anywhere into the FrameMaker book. It's useful = to keep=20 all the cross references in a separate list.
 
- Seth
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Richard Evans <infodex@MINDSPRING.COM>
= To:=20 Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BING= HAMTON.EDU>
Date:=20 Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:07 PM
Subject: Indexing with=20 FrameMaker

A colleague who is a wizard with Frame = but knows=20 nothing about indexing has
asked me to help her create an index in a = Frame=20 document.  I know next to
nothing about Frame indexing, except = that it=20 uses embedded tags (markers)
for index entries.

She first = asked me to=20 "just highlight the indexable words" and she would
create = the=20 markers.  I explained why that was not feasible and = proposed
that I do a=20 CINDEX index and give it to her in page order.  She replied
that = she=20 would not know where exactly to place the markers.

I'm going to = meet with=20 her later this week, but in the meantime, does
anyone have any = practical=20 suggestions for the scenario I've described?

I remember several = years ago=20 Lynn Moncrief told about literally cutting up
a CINDEX index and = pasting the=20 entries on the document to be indexed so the
Frame user would know = where to=20 put the markers.  I don't consider that a
practical = solution.

How=20 precisely must the markers be located? Do they have to be exactly = on
the=20 indexed word or would the beginning/end of the paragraph be = sufficient?
In=20 MS-Word, I consider the paragraph level to be sufficient.

Is = there a=20 feature in Frame (as there is in Word) to turn on = line
numbering?  If=20 so, perhaps I could use the line number as part of the
CINDEX=20 locator.

Dick ------=_NextPart_000_016C_01BE3BDE.C1EF0C40-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 14:59:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing with FrameMaker In-Reply-To: <199901091421.r9fb2i.b7s.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> At 11:21 AM 1/9/99 -0800, you wrote: >You might consider our tool set for creating and editing markers in >FrameMaker, IXgen. IXgen is *not* an auto indexer, though it has some >semi-auto features to get a good starting index. Thanks, for the tip, but I want to reemphasize that I am *NOT* asking for tips on using FrameMaker. My colleague is a FrameMaker Wizard, in fact she is a rep for Adobe. She will be doing the tagging. All I am asking is for tips on how to make the markup as easy as possible for her. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:31:27 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara A. Wallace" Subject: AZ ASI Professional Development Workshop - Feb 6, 1999 Finessing the Index A Workshop for Intermediate Indexers Featuring Enid Zafran Sponsored by the American Society of Indexers, Arizona Chapter This workshop will focus on the steps to take to present the most polished index for publication. Attendees are expected to have some prior indexing experience, since this is not a course aimed at beginners. Enid will describe the finishing touches that distinguish a professionally prepared index. After the initial indexing is complete, further refinements are vital: 7Edit the index 7Identify and cure organizational problems 7Verify cross-references 7Use software to facilitate checks 7Format the index Enid also will discuss special indexing challenges, including: 7Books with multiple authors and inconsistent terminology 7Getting off to a quick start 7Common publisher and author complaints The workshop will include hands-on exercises. About Ms. Zafran Enid is director of indexing services at Bureau of National Affairs, an information company in Washington, D.C. She oversees a staff of 45 indexers who meet over 2,000 deadlines a year for both print and electronic products. Enid has a freelance indexing business, Indexing Partners, which is in its ninth year of operation. In addition to legal indexing, she has authored indexes in the fields of psychology, education, speech, history, health care, political science, and environmental science. She previously worked at Banks-Baldwin Law Publishing Co., where she held the positions of manager of indexing, vice president of editorial, and vice president of new product development. Enid also teaches indexing. She has served on the national board of the American Society of Indexers and is chair of the publications committee for the Society. With over 20 years of indexing experience, she has trained numerous indexers and given presentations on indexing at national conferences of the American Society of Indexers and American Society of Information Science. Enid has a masters in library science, a J.D., and an LL.M. in labor law. Fee $65 members $80 nonmembers The fee includes continental breakfast, lunch, refreshments, and workshop materials. When Saturday, February 6 Registration 8:30 a.m. Workshop 9 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Where YWCA Of The USA Leadership Development Conference Center 9440 N. 25th Avenue Phoenix, AZ 85021 Registration To register for the workshop, send a check made out to ASI to: Carol Chroneos 1960 East Bendix Drive Tempe, AZ, 85283 Please include your name, address, and phone number. DEADLINE FOR REGISTRATION IS JANUARY 22, 1999. For more information, call Kathy Little in Mesa (602-820-4709) or Sarah Harris in Tucson (520-733-6346). Or check the Arizona ASI web site at http://aztec.asu.edu/azasi/. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 15:46:51 -0800 Reply-To: jlee@eskimo.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Dragon NaturallySpeaking microphone? Hi, Ann, I think it was me (or at least I hope so!) That mic is called a speech mic. It contains a high-quality microphone, a built in speaker, a trackball mouse operated by the thumb. and a number of buttons which can be variously programmed depending on which program window you are in. I like it particularly because it eliminates "mousing repetitive injuries" and you can move it around wherever you find it comfortable. If I'm getting "antsy" I can even stand and move a bit while dictating. If you would like pricing and order information, please e-mail me off list. Jeri Lee Ann Truesdale wrote: > Hi, > > Someone who uses NaturallySpeaking posted information about the microphone she > has found to give the best results. I am sure I saved it but where?? > > I would be grateful if someone could forward that information to me. > > Thanks! > > Ann > > Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) > TrueWords Freelance Services > Yonges Island, SC > ************************************************************** > If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool > came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: DOS not quite dead yet [more] Hi, everybody-- If DOS has expired, why is Microsoft still selling it in stores? And I don't need to ask why is it, along with Windows95, still going for the original high price? I have no idea what the industry in general feels about DOS -- any version -- but I subscribe to a DOS users magazine which is very active, and have MS-DOS 6.22 on my main machine, along with Win3.11, Win95 and WinNT. Many programs written in DOS are faster and "cleaner" than equivalent Windows programs: I always envision less gears and pulleys bewteen the input crank and the output. GDS [Graphic Display System] by Photodex is very fast, even on a slow machine, and does everything I usually need; CompuPic (Windows) by the same company seems clunky and poorly laid out. Maybe I just don't know how to use it? When I need more bells and whistles I fire up L-View Pro (in Windows), which is so directly user-friendly it might have been *derived* from a DOS original. Just because a program uses the DOS environment doesn't limit it to command-line operation; NeoPaint, for example, simply generates its OWN graphic interface. And any experienced DOS user knows how neat batch files are! Cheers, Dave Talcott ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:38:00 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Online Help Indexing In-Reply-To: <04574556247818@domain1.bigpond.com> >From: Karen Powers >Subject: Online Help indexing >I've looked on several websites and books, but I can't really find any >direct confirmation of who is the best person to index online help. I >assume that the department indexer would be the best person rather than the >person who actually writes the help text. Online Help Indexing has a lot in common with Web site indexing, and I understand that this will increase as Microsoft adopts their planned Compiled HTML Help system in place of the separate WinHelp program currently in use. It seems to me that a mixture of computer skills and indexing skills are called for here, as well as some subject-matter knowledge. Jonathan Jermey Moderator Web indexing mailing list (Join at http://WINDMAIL.listbot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:38:01 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: Names, listings of In-Reply-To: <05042306206634@domain5.bigpond.com> I guess the advantage of natural order is that you avoid the commas; the advantage of surname first is that your sorting order and presentation would be consistent. If you choose to sort by last name this suggests to me that the last name is considered most significant for access. Following this logic I would put the last name first, so that the part the user wants to access is the part that is most readily available to them. I feel quite strongly that subheadings should be sorted the way they appear if at all possible. Regards, Glenda. > As currently planned, part of the index will consist of general subject > headings (artists, athletes, authors/writers, educators, entrepreneurs, > musicians, etc.) with listings of several names under each general subject > heading. > > Is there a consensus on how these names should be listed? The > question has > come up whether, as subheads, these names should be formatted as > "Jane Doe, > 115-18" or "Doe, Jane, 115-18." The alpha sort would be on the last name > whichever format is used. My "gut" feeling is to go with "first name last > name" (Jane Doe) listings as subheads, but I'm open to suggestions. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:38:03 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: ASI publications (a mini commercial) In-Reply-To: <04574556247818@domain1.bigpond.com> The older I get, the more I feel that the dedicated workers for voluntary societies SHOULD get some compensation for the work they do. The writers of these books have contributed to ASI by the work they have done, and the sharing of their knowledge. I for one would like to see them reimbursed before the income is shared in the common pot. I'm curious now, does SI pay the writers of its publications? > I might also note that editors, authors, and contributors for ASI books > published by ITI receive NO monetary income. ASI receives a > percentage of the > sales of each book. Information Today, Inc. (ITI), is the official book > publisher for ASI. ASI members receive a discount on the ASI books, too. > Regards, Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 20:18:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Help me find lost "See" in FrameMaker Index Does anyone know how to find a "see" entry with no page reference in embedded markers in a FrameMaker index? I can't find the entry by Alt-Ctrl click on the entry to go to a hyperlink, because there is no page reference. I can't remember WHERE in the @()*#$()^%^@) index I put the cursed marker, and I can't find anything to view the individual contents of the damn markers if I've put several at one spot. I HATE FrameMaker !!!!!! Help if you can this poor gal who didn't think far enough ahead when her publisher was putting on too much time pressure. Thx. Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 20:30:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: Found: Help me find lost "See" in FrameMaker Index I FOUND it. Click only on the ENtry! (not the whole !@!^#$^^!@ line) and it goes to the place in text. Thank G-d I turned on hyperlinks. Sorry to bother everyone. Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:49:25 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Liza Weinkove Subject: ASI Publications I have my Index-L subscription set to NO MAIL, but the following message from Glenda Browne has been forwarded to me by Christine Shuttleworth > >>The older I get, the more I feel that the dedicated workers for voluntary >>societies SHOULD get some compensation for the work they do. The writers of >>these books have contributed to ASI by the work they have done, and the >>sharing of their knowledge. I for one would like to see them reimbursed >>before the income is shared in the common pot. >> >>I'm curious now, does SI pay the writers of its publications? >> The Society of Indexers pays the editors of our Occasional Publications an honorarium. Like all honoraria this is a token payment, is intended as a "thank you", and makes no attempt to compensate for the actual amount of work involved. We also pay expenses - travel, phone, stationery etc. The Society could not possibly afford to pay a realistic rate to all the people who help us out in various ways - we have to rely on what is, effectively, voluntary help, although many of those who help us do receive honoraria. Fortunately there are quite a few people who are willing to donate their time and expertise - but there is always a danger that certain people are "exploited" and asked to do too much! Best wishes Liza Weinkove Secretary, Society of Indexers ==================================== Liza Weinkove Freelance Indexer 1 Longham Close Bramhall, Stockport SK7 3NL, United Kingdom Tel: 0161 486 6673; Fax: 0161 488 4889 e-mail: liza.weinkove@zen.co.uk ==================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 08:42:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: AZ ASI Professional Development Workshop - Feb 6, 1999 In-Reply-To: <2ff8c594.3697e6cf@aol.com> >Finessing the Index >A Workshop for Intermediate Indexers >Featuring Enid Zafran >Sponsored by the American Society of Indexers, Arizona Chapter Would handouts be available for purchase? Maybe we could start a trend for that. I often see really interesting workshops that I have no hope of attending, like this one. If presenters were encouraged to prepare handouts, I would be very likely to want them. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 4192176 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:08:24 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Book on democracies on Eastern Europe Rebecca wrote: << I've one more question though, I hope you don't mind. Given this criteria for subheadings, are there general principles for cross-referencing, which follow? Feel free to post to the list. >> Hmm. The criteria for see also references is that you're sending the reader somewhere else that they might need to go, and where they're going to find different page references than the ones they just saw. There are lots of other considerations; they're covered well in Nancy Mulvany's and Hans Wellisch's books. Anyone else have something to add? Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:59:31 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Radcliffe Medical Press (UK) In-Reply-To: Date sent: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:08:20 -0000 Send reply to: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Radcliffe Medical Press (UK) Originally to: Index-L To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >From Christine Headley > > A friend is writing a book for Radcliffe; I am doing some editoral work > for her and wondering whether to offer to index the book as well. I would > be interested to hear from anyone who has been commissioned by Radcliffe > to do an index (or anything else). > > TIA > Christine > > Stroud, Glos > > I have worked for Radcliffe - last time in 1996, liaising with Camilla Behrens. There were no problems as far as I know. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:32:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverly Schane Subject: Re: Sky Software I had read something on the list concerning a comparison study between Sky & Cindex recently. Well, I seem to have inadvertently deleted it. Could anyone post it again? There was information regarding the standard edition of Sky for $99 and using it for part time indexing. Have any of you used this edition and do you have any advice on using this software for starting out? Thanks. Bev