Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9908B" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:01:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Timing and Cost ranges for Software Manuals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have a friend who's company wishes to know the range of prices and timelines to expect for the indexing of, say, a 400 page software manual. Of course she needs a sense of the price and time range "yesterday." Since I don't do software manuals, I haven't paid much attention to previous discussions. Can anyone enlighten me on approximately how long such an index would take and the price range? Martha Osgood Back Words Indexing http://www.teleport.com/~index ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:58:14 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Journal Indexing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi everyone, I am in the process of negotiating a contract for a cumulative journal index (9 years in total) and then I will be doing their annual index from now on also. I have been offered a 0.65 cents for subject entry and 0.45 cents for name entry. Each article will need 2-3 entries in total. My questions are....... 1....is this good rate for journal indexing? or should I go for *per article* rate? 2....If I charge by the article, how much I should charge? There is no way that the editor is going to pay me by per page as I do not have read the entire article. The editor is a very close friend of my husband and the rate is very much negotiable. :-) Any help would be appreciated for the answers. MANJIT K. SAHAI _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:11:08 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SageWords1@AOL.COM Subject: Fax Software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everyone, I am using a fax software on my computer called "WinFax PRO." I believe I have the latest version, which is 9.0. I decided to go the route of software vs. hardware thinking that it would be nice not to have one more piece of equipment in my already too-small office. I am regretting that decision somewhat now, though, and here are the reasons why: I am able to both receive and send faxes via WinFax PRO, which is great. However, when I want to receive a fax, I must answer the phone, figure out that a fax is trying to come through (you can tell by the signal the fax sends out), and then manually give the command, through the computer software, for the fax software to receive the fax. Almost needless to say, this is very limiting if I have to leave my computer--whether I'm in the house or need to go out for an errand. Many is the time when I have been in a different part of the house, portable phone in hand, when a fax call has come through. I then do a 50-yard dash to the computer, completely out of breath when I get there--sometimes missing the call, sometimes getting it. There is an option to put the software on "Automatic Receive" rather than "Manual Receive" but then that means that all calls that come through are meant for the fax software (my telephone and my answering machine are also on this same line; I also use that one line to connect to the Internet--I'm signed up for Bell Atlantic's Voicemail so that people won't get a busy signal when I'm on the Internet). When the software is on "Automatic Receive", if the call isn't really a fax trying to come through, no one can leave a message on my answering machine either. I think they get a funny tone from my end, too. At that point, they probably think they've dialed a wrong number and hang up. In researching a little further on the WinFax PRO "Help" I see that I may be able to order some type of communications software--"PC Anywhere" or "Talkworks", for instance--that will discriminate between regular telephone calls and fax calls. I should then be able to leave the fax software on "Automatic Receive" and let the communications software figure out whether it's a phone call or a fax call. I assume the communications software has some sort of answering system for people to leave messages built into it meaning, I think, that I could get rid of my answering machine. Does anyone have any experience with this? I hesitate to just go ahead and purchase another piece of software. WinFax PRO was roughly $100, and it's still relatively new to me. I assume a communications software would be roughly the same. I think fax machines go for around $100-$150 these days, or maybe even less. Point being, I could have just gone ahead and purchased a fax machine for less than this whole other deal will end up costing me. And not have had all these problems, either. The other limitation I'm finding is that my brand new scanner (an AcerScan 620P) doesn't seem to scan documents clearly enough for me to able to send them through the fax software. I specifically wanted to be able to send my signed indexing letters of agreement via my new software fax (rather than going to an outside service to do my faxes, as I was before!). The scanner seems to scan documents excruciatingly slowly. When I call them up via the fax software, they're not quite, but almost, illegible--very faint. I can't use it for one of my main purposes! I still have to either use an outside faxing service or just send the darned agreement via e-mail--without my signature--which I'm sure is really weird to the person having to sign the agreement on the other end! I thought I was being so smart and up to date in obtaining all these great new technologies--instead it's just all driving me bananas! I have spent many hours fooling around and playing around with all this stuff trying to get it to work properly together. It's just not happening! Before I toss it all out the window and start all over again, what do others do? Does anyone know how far away we are from being able to somehow e-mail signed documents? With ease? Without spending hours figuring out how to do it? Does anyone have any other ideas for me? Any help GREATLY appreciated! Thank you, Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:51:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Drat In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" and Dang! I did it again - It should be "whose" not "who's" ! Sigh.... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:42:23 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Organization: the-indexer.com Subject: Re: Fax Software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use a Brother MFC-1970 all-in-one FAX/PRINTER/COPIER/SCANNER/PC FAX/MESSAGE CENTER. I don't use the printer but everything else has greatly simplified my life. The fax connects to my PC so I can fax from the PC. The Message Center can be programmed to answer one type of ring for an incoming fax. One of the best business services that was part of a package from US WEST, was different rings on the same number. Two short rings tells the fax machine to receive a fax. I can ignore this. A short-long-short ring tells me that it is a call coming in on the number I give out for business. Two longs rings indicate a call coming on our home number. If someone picks up a fax call by mistake, they can still press *51 and it will go to the fax machine. The copier works as well as a standalone as far as I can see. The scanner does a great job with the built in OCR. The Brother machine is a plain paper machine also. It did cost $295, but it's a great space and time saver. Oh, it also has a memory so if the paper runs out it will save the fax; I could, if it were ever necessary, call remotely and have a fax forwarded to me. I used to use WinFax Pro in an office I worked in. I remember that you could program it on what ring to pick up on - what about telling it to pick up on the 3rd or 4th ring - would that help? Norton PC Anywhere used to be to connect two PC's - maybe it's changed? Charles R. Anderson the-indexer.com P.O. Box 15642 Seattle, WA 98115-0642 phone: 206-985-8799 fax: 206-985-8796 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 1:11 PM Subject: Fax Software > Everyone, > > I am using a fax software on my computer called "WinFax PRO." I believe I > have the latest version, which is 9.0. I decided to go the route of software > vs. hardware thinking that it would be nice not to have one more piece of > equipment in my already too-small office. I am regretting that decision > somewhat now, though, and here are the reasons why: > > I am able to both receive and send faxes via WinFax PRO, which is great. > However, when I want to receive a fax, I must answer the phone, figure out > that a fax is trying to come through (you can tell by the signal the fax > sends out), and then manually give the command, through the computer > software, for the fax software to receive the fax. Almost needless to say, > this is very limiting if I have to leave my computer--whether I'm in the > house or need to go out for an errand. Many is the time when I have been in > a different part of the house, portable phone in hand, when a fax call has > come through. I then do a 50-yard dash to the computer, completely out of > breath when I get there--sometimes missing the call, sometimes getting it. > There is an option to put the software on "Automatic Receive" rather than > "Manual Receive" but then that means that all calls that come through are > meant for the fax software (my telephone and my answering machine are also on > this same line; I also use that one line to connect to the Internet--I'm > signed up for Bell Atlantic's Voicemail so that people won't get a busy > signal when I'm on the Internet). When the software is on "Automatic > Receive", if the call isn't really a fax trying to come through, no one can > leave a message on my answering machine either. I think they get a funny > tone from my end, too. At that point, they probably think they've dialed a > wrong number and hang up. > > In researching a little further on the WinFax PRO "Help" I see that I may be > able to order some type of communications software--"PC Anywhere" or > "Talkworks", for instance--that will discriminate between regular telephone > calls and fax calls. I should then be able to leave the fax software on > "Automatic Receive" and let the communications software figure out whether > it's a phone call or a fax call. I assume the communications software has > some sort of answering system for people to leave messages built into it > meaning, I think, that I could get rid of my answering machine. Does anyone > have any experience with this? I hesitate to just go ahead and purchase > another piece of software. WinFax PRO was roughly $100, and it's still > relatively new to me. I assume a communications software would be roughly > the same. I think fax machines go for around $100-$150 these days, or maybe > even less. Point being, I could have just gone ahead and purchased a fax > machine for less than this whole other deal will end up costing me. And not > have had all these problems, either. > > The other limitation I'm finding is that my brand new scanner (an AcerScan > 620P) doesn't seem to scan documents clearly enough for me to able to send > them through the fax software. I specifically wanted to be able to send my > signed indexing letters of agreement via my new software fax (rather than > going to an outside service to do my faxes, as I was before!). The scanner > seems to scan documents excruciatingly slowly. When I call them up via the > fax software, they're not quite, but almost, illegible--very faint. I can't > use it for one of my main purposes! I still have to either use an outside > faxing service or just send the darned agreement via e-mail--without my > signature--which I'm sure is really weird to the person having to sign the > agreement on the other end! > > I thought I was being so smart and up to date in obtaining all these great > new technologies--instead it's just all driving me bananas! I have spent > many hours fooling around and playing around with all this stuff trying to > get it to work properly together. It's just not happening! > > Before I toss it all out the window and start all over again, what do others > do? Does anyone know how far away we are from being able to somehow e-mail > signed documents? With ease? Without spending hours figuring out how to do > it? Does anyone have any other ideas for me? > > Any help GREATLY appreciated! > > Thank you, > > Debbie Graf > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:14:53 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SHughes512@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Journal Indexing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-08-09 16:08:23 EDT, ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << I have been offered a 0.65 cents for subject entry and 0.45 cents for name entry. Each article will need 2-3 entries in total. My questions are....... >> That's a decent rate. I think that 2-3 per article will be way under estimated if the articles are from a science journal Just take a look at the author list for a few articles. You will find from 1-10 names. Although I hate typing author indexes, they pay a very good hourly rate. No analysis just cash per entry. 8-) Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:17:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Office Tools and Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a stand-alone fax for many of the same reasons: it was the simplest route to having a fax. I don't have to be around to accept faxes. And I don't have to worry about software compatibility. Another added benefit: my fax machine provides photocopies. I wouldn't want to do a lot on it, but for the occasional copy, it's pretty handy. Given the cost of fax machines these days (mine is loaded for bear and wasn't outrageously expensive), I have found having the extra machine worth the trouble of finding space for it on my work table. I sometimes use the internal fax in my computer, so I would say that having that isn't a waste for the situations in which you want to fax directly. But having a stand-alone machine is convenient too. Different tools for different jobs. Some days I pine for the days of index cards, red pencils, and a trusty Olivetti, however. My office is a snakepit of cords and power strips! (I live in an old house without enough sockets, that's for sure.) But all these machines do make life more convenient, as much as I hate to admit it! One tool I am contemplating buying is a paper cutter of my own. I currently go to the copy shop and use theirs when I need one. But there are days I think I should make room on my work table for one of my own. Is it worth the price? Would I use it enough to justify giving up the space it takes up? If my work becomes truly paperless, would I ever use it for anything else? I guess I live too close to the copy shop if I haven't persuaded myself to buy one myself. But years ago, I lived near a place where I could get and send faxes too. I used that service for years before investing in my own fax machine. A lot of what you decide will be based on what level on convenience/inconvenience your current setup imposes. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:47:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Ann Meyers Subject: Re: other changes to index-l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Help!--I have tried twice to change my subscription from full list discussion to digest form without success. Twice I "left" the list and then re-subscribed to receive only the digest form, but I am still receiving all the postings AND the digest form. Can you advise as to the method for just receiving the digest? Mary Ann Meyers ljmmam@hypermall.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlotte Skuster To: Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 9:48 AM Subject: other changes to index-l > Hi again, > In addition to accessing the archives at > http://listserv.binghamton.edu/archives/index-l.html, you can also post > to the list or change the settings for your subscriptions from this > site. Click on "Post to the list" or "Join or leave the list (or change > settings)". > > I do not know how well these functions work, but I will say that I have > used the list management function from this site and that works very > well. Its a brave new world...8-). > > -- > Charlotte Skuster > index-l moderator > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:52:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DINA PALLAZOLA Subject: Re: Fax Software Comments: To: SageWords1@AOL.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! I think I may have a solution to your fax problem. If available in your area you can order "ringmate" from the telephone company. It's the same line, but gives you a second number. In my area it only costs about $3 a month. Then you should be able to set your software to answer all the time for that second number ONLY. I hope this helps you out! Dina ------Original Message------ From: SageWords1@AOL.COM To: Sent: August 9, 1999 8:11:08 PM GMT Subject: Fax Software Everyone, I am using a fax software on my computer called "WinFax PRO." I believe I have the latest version, which is 9.0. I decided to go the route of software vs. hardware thinking that it would be nice not to have one more piece of equipment in my already too-small office. I am regretting that decision somewhat now, though, and here are the reasons why: I am able to both receive and send faxes via WinFax PRO, which is great. However, when I want to receive a fax, I must answer the phone, figure out that a fax is trying to come through (you can tell by the signal the fax sends out), and then manually give the command, through the computer software, for the fax software to receive the fax. Almost needless to say, this is very limiting if I have to leave my computer--whether I'm in the house or need to go out for an errand. Many is the time when I have been in a different part of the house, portable phone in hand, when a fax call has come through. I then do a 50-yard dash to the computer, completely out of breath when I get there--sometimes missing the call, sometimes getting it. There is an option to put the software on "Automatic Receive" rather than "Manual Receive" but then that means that all calls that come through are meant for the fax software (my telephone and my answering machine are also on this same line; I also use that one line to connect to the Internet--I'm signed up for Bell Atlantic's Voicemail so that people won't get a busy signal when I'm on the Internet). When the software is on "Automatic Receive", if the call isn't really a fax trying to come through, no one can leave a message on my answering machine either. I think they get a funny tone from my end, too. At that point, they probably think they've dialed a wrong number and hang up. In researching a little further on the WinFax PRO "Help" I see that I may be able to order some type of communications software--"PC Anywhere" or "Talkworks", for instance--that will discriminate between regular telephone calls and fax calls. I should then be able to leave the fax software on "Automatic Receive" and let the communications software figure out whether it's a phone call or a fax call. I assume the communications software has some sort of answering system for people to leave messages built into it meaning, I think, that I could get rid of my answering machine. Does anyone have any experience with this? I hesitate to just go ahead and purchase another piece of software. WinFax PRO was roughly $100, and it's still relatively new to me. I assume a communications software would be roughly the same. I think fax machines go for around $100-$150 these days, or maybe even less. Point being, I could have just gone ahead and purchased a fax machine for less than this whole other deal will end up costing me. And not have had all these problems, either. The other limitation I'm finding is that my brand new scanner (an AcerScan 620P) doesn't seem to scan documents clearly enough for me to able to send them through the fax software. I specifically wanted to be able to send my signed indexing letters of agreement via my new software fax (rather than going to an outside service to do my faxes, as I was before!). The scanner seems to scan documents excruciatingly slowly. When I call them up via the fax software, they're not quite, but almost, illegible--very faint. I can't use it for one of my main purposes! I still have to either use an outside faxing service or just send the darned agreement via e-mail--without my signature--which I'm sure is really weird to the person having to sign the agreement on the other end! I thought I was being so smart and up to date in obtaining all these great new technologies--instead it's just all driving me bananas! I have spent many hours fooling around and playing around with all this stuff trying to get it to work properly together. It's just not happening! Before I toss it all out the window and start all over again, what do others do? Does anyone know how far away we are from being able to somehow e-mail signed documents? With ease? Without spending hours figuring out how to do it? Does anyone have any other ideas for me? Any help GREATLY appreciated! Thank you, Debbie Graf __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:50:10 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Fax machines (was Re: fax software) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am having similar problems with my fax modem. I, too, am not happy, and wishing I had bought a fax machine. I've seen plain-paper fax/answering machines for around $70 (on sale). Does anyone have any thoughts on fax machines -- really good or bad experiences with particular features and/or brands? I'm also looking at getting a scanner and at a color printer. I'm trying to weigh the merits of an all-in-one machine vs. three separate components. On one hand, the all-in-one has a smaller footprint than three machines. OTOH, I wonder whether each component in an all-in-one is as high-quality as I could get if I spent the same amount of money on three machines. Anyone care to address this? TIA, Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:21:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Office Tools and Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barbara Cohen wrote: > One tool I am contemplating buying is a paper cutter of my own. I currently > go to the copy shop and use theirs when I need one. But there are days I > think I should make room on my work table for one of my own. Is it worth the > price? Would I use it enough to justify giving up the space it takes up? I just got a paper cutter because one of my clients publishes non-standard size books. Their pages always come on huge sheets of paper, with a fair amount of white space around the actual page. I didn't spend a fortune, only about $35, and I didn't get a really heavy-duty cutter, because I only do about 5-8 books for them a year. But since I live miles from anywhere with a paper cutter, I figured it was worth it to save my fingers and my scissors -- I've been cutting the pages by hand. For my money, it was worth every penny. Storage isn't a problem; since I don't use it regularly, I can store it in its box, upright in my closet. No need to waste table space; just stick it on the kitchen table when I need to use it. (Of course, I can see using it for the odd craft project now and then -- I have a kindergartner!) Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:58:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Office Tools and Equipment In-Reply-To: <199908092223.SAA14883@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder that it's not too early to be thinking about doing presentations or roundtables at the 2000 ASI conference in Albuquerque. A presentation to the general session should run 30-45 minutes. A roundtable about 1.5 hours. If anyone is interested in doing something on this topic, please contact me off list. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:06:35 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Timing and Cost ranges for Software Manuals In-Reply-To: <199908091906.PAA06111@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I have a friend who's company wishes to know the range of prices and > timelines to expect for the indexing of, say, a 400 page software manual. > Of course she needs a sense of the price and time range > "yesterday." Since > I don't do software manuals, I haven't paid much attention to previous > discussions. Can anyone enlighten me on approximately how long such an > index would take and the price range? Speaking as one who uses dedicated software (Cindex), 4-6 days and about $3 per page. Maybe more if it is dense, highly technical material. If she needs an embedded index, some of the folks who use embedding software will have to respond. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:23:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Blee811@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Paper Cutter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barbara, I can't tell if a paper cutter makes economic sense for you, but I have one and use it for various hobby tasks too. BUT, if you're going to get one, get a heavy-duty one, $100+, with the big heavy cutting arm that you pull down. You will be quickly disappointed with anything less. Bill Lee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:07:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Fax Software In-Reply-To: <387844886.934239156803.JavaMail.root@web04.pub01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I think I may have a solution to your fax problem. If available in your >area you can order "ringmate" from the telephone company. It's the same >line, but gives you a second number. In my area it only costs about $3 a >month. Then you should be able to set your software to answer all the time This is exactly what I do. But I took it a step or two further. I need to be sure I don't miss calls, both for my "real" job and from publishers, but I absolutely HATE call waiting, what I call callus interuptus. So I have Call Answering (aka call messaging or voice mail in some areas), but that doesn't work with my fax software as the call answering would pick up before the fax, and the call would be gone before the fax ever knew about. Instead of spending $100+ for a what-do-call-it that discerns the type of call, I just spent $19.95 on an answering machine. So, when I am talking on the phone or on line, all new calls go into voice mail (call answering) including faxes, which will have to just keep trying. Then when I'm not on the phone but away from home, the machine picks up and the fax (I leave my computer and fax modem on 24 hours a day) can just pick up the call as soon as it hears the fax tone. Now you say, why do I need ring mate with all this elaborate setup? Ah, well, when I'm home, but not on the phone yakking, a fax comes in, I know not to answer the phone as the ring is different (two shorts). This setup sounds more complicated that it is, and is saving me $50-$100 per month. If this didn't make sense, give me a shout off list and I'll try to explain better. Rae Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:58:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: Fax Software Comments: To: SageWords1@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Debbie - I am using FaxWorks 8.0, and Talkworks is an option to include at installation - maybe you did not. I know if you let the computer answer all calls, and act as your answering machine, it can discriminate between voice and fax. I prefer not to use my computer as an answering machine, so I have a separate one, and I have a Comswitch 3500 that routes fax calls to my computer - but this arrangement predates version 8 (goes back to DOS version 4 I think), and I may not really need it now, but it's here and it works. Try re-installing FaxWorks, and include Talkworks. If need be, call Symantec. I like having the faxes on my computer. Sometimes you need to sign a faxed document and fax it back - if you've got a scanned signature, you can paste it in, and fax it back without scanning. Also, if you have a high-quality printer, you can use it for printing your faxes - sometimes better than a fax machine (if lower resolution) can do. I have also had stuff faxed to me which I then ran through OCR (optical character recognition) software - try scanning in a fax, and see how well THAT works - one scan operation too many. I LOVE the print quality of my HP5L laser printer - I'm really picky and don't like inkjets for text. Sorry, I grew up in corporate offices with high quality laser output. In spite of my coke-bottle bottom eyeglasses, inkjets always look a little fuzzy to me - even my own, which is a fairly new HP, and one of the better ones out there. My scanner is an old, single page Logitech PageScan - I got it because you can pull off the head and scan books with it too - and even it will scan in a document well enough to do a good fax. Your scanner setup may need some tweaking, but I don't know anything about your particular scanner. Don't buy anything more till you're sure you need it - I kind of think you've got everything you need, but the setups may need some help. Find someone who is a local call away to test out with. I'd be glad to offer more free advice (which is all-too-often worth what you pay for it) :-) if I can help. Iris Ailin-Pyzik Crystalline Systems ibap@crystalsys.com SageWords1@aol.com wrote: > > Everyone, > > I am using a fax software on my computer called "WinFax PRO." I believe I > have the latest version, which is 9.0. I decided to go the route of software > vs. hardware thinking that it would be nice not to have one more piece of > equipment in my already too-small office. I am regretting that decision > somewhat now, though, and here are the reasons why: > > I am able to both receive and send faxes via WinFax PRO, which is great. > However, when I want to receive a fax, I must answer the phone, figure out > that a fax is trying to come through (you can tell by the signal the fax > sends out), and then manually give the command, through the computer > software, for the fax software to receive the fax. Almost needless to say, > this is very limiting if I have to leave my computer--whether I'm in the > house or need to go out for an errand. Many is the time when I have been in > a different part of the house, portable phone in hand, when a fax call has > come through. I then do a 50-yard dash to the computer, completely out of > breath when I get there--sometimes missing the call, sometimes getting it. > There is an option to put the software on "Automatic Receive" rather than > "Manual Receive" but then that means that all calls that come through are > meant for the fax software (my telephone and my answering machine are also on > this same line; I also use that one line to connect to the Internet--I'm > signed up for Bell Atlantic's Voicemail so that people won't get a busy > signal when I'm on the Internet). When the software is on "Automatic > Receive", if the call isn't really a fax trying to come through, no one can > leave a message on my answering machine either. I think they get a funny > tone from my end, too. At that point, they probably think they've dialed a > wrong number and hang up. > > In researching a little further on the WinFax PRO "Help" I see that I may be > able to order some type of communications software--"PC Anywhere" or > "Talkworks", for instance--that will discriminate between regular telephone > calls and fax calls. I should then be able to leave the fax software on > "Automatic Receive" and let the communications software figure out whether > it's a phone call or a fax call. I assume the communications software has > some sort of answering system for people to leave messages built into it > meaning, I think, that I could get rid of my answering machine. Does anyone > have any experience with this? I hesitate to just go ahead and purchase > another piece of software. WinFax PRO was roughly $100, and it's still > relatively new to me. I assume a communications software would be roughly > the same. I think fax machines go for around $100-$150 these days, or maybe > even less. Point being, I could have just gone ahead and purchased a fax > machine for less than this whole other deal will end up costing me. And not > have had all these problems, either. > > The other limitation I'm finding is that my brand new scanner (an AcerScan > 620P) doesn't seem to scan documents clearly enough for me to able to send > them through the fax software. I specifically wanted to be able to send my > signed indexing letters of agreement via my new software fax (rather than > going to an outside service to do my faxes, as I was before!). The scanner > seems to scan documents excruciatingly slowly. When I call them up via the > fax software, they're not quite, but almost, illegible--very faint. I can't > use it for one of my main purposes! I still have to either use an outside > faxing service or just send the darned agreement via e-mail--without my > signature--which I'm sure is really weird to the person having to sign the > agreement on the other end! > > I thought I was being so smart and up to date in obtaining all these great > new technologies--instead it's just all driving me bananas! I have spent > many hours fooling around and playing around with all this stuff trying to > get it to work properly together. It's just not happening! > > Before I toss it all out the window and start all over again, what do others > do? Does anyone know how far away we are from being able to somehow e-mail > signed documents? With ease? Without spending hours figuring out how to do > it? Does anyone have any other ideas for me? > > Any help GREATLY appreciated! > > Thank you, > > Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 01:26:05 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Foreign language indexing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm interested to know who out there is working in foreign languages, preparing indexes on non-English material in the foreign language. I occasionally work in Spanish, and have done some medical indexing in Spanish. I don't know of many others who work in Spanish, nor, for that matter, am I aware of any other foreign language indexers. It's a corner of our profession that is unknown, by and large. I'd love to know who's working in what languages. Answer on-list or off-list, as you wish. Thanks in advance! Janet Perlman SOUTHWEST INDEXING http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:34:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Fax Software In-Reply-To: <75922f7b.24e08fdc@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have never had a separate fax machine, having always relied on software (and never have had too many faxes) I didn't publicize my fax number but let it be known that I had one available. If an editor wanted to send me a fax, they called first & then I loaded the software. No one ever seemed to mind. However, several months ago I found www.efax.com. At no cost for the basic service, they provide a phone number that you can publicize as your fax (you have no control over the area code but since my publishers are scattered across the country, that was not a concern for me) The company collects your fax, converts it to an e-mail attachment & sends it to the e-mail address you provide. So far this has worked well for me. I still need my fax software for outgoing faxes (this option is a premium feature) but this alleviates the difficulty on wondering if that next call is for the fax (and also the need to inform my family everytime I'm expecting a fax so they know to let the call alone) Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:51:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BECohen653@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Foreign language indexing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Janet, I can handle several foreign languages (French, Italian, German, and Latin--I spent a lot of time in the language lab in college!), but so far I've only indexed some articles in French and German within a compendium volume (where the final index was in English). Let me tell you, translating the names of ancient saints, artists, sages, and so forth from German and French into English for a lot of minor art historical regions of eastern Europe was a real challenge. I worked alongside a translator on the German, and even she had trouble making heads or tails out of some of the convoluted scholarly language. But it was an interesting project to index while she read out loud to me. (My German is fair, but the scholarly language defeated me at every turn, so the client paid for the services of a translator!) The final index was a real testament to my endurance and ingenuity. (Don't ask me why the volume editors decided not to translate the foreign-language articles: but from the indexer's perspective, putting together the names of minor Slavic saints in three languages was a hoot. Finding reference works in three languages to make sure of the translated names was the real challenge. By the way, in this book there were 70 articles, and about 25 were in French or German.) There are several people in the History/Archaeology SIG who work in foreign languages. I will send the names along privately, if they don't identify themselves here. I have found, over the years, that a lot of indexers shy away from projects in English that have a lot of foreign terms, and I get calls about quite a few languages. So far, the worst one to work in that I've struggle through is Vietnamese. Way too many diacritical marks on way too many letters! (Plus, that book was on Buddhism, which writing can be hard enough to understand even without a lot of foreign terms to code.) But I have met the challenges of Korean, some Slavic languages I don't know, Polish, Hebrew, and Japanese transliterations. (These were all scholarly projects.) Although indexing fully in a foreign language would be interesting, there are plenty of projects that are indexed in English that require some working knowledge of languages, and even those don't get talked about much. I've been under the impression that most indexers just don't like to both with them. Have no statistical data to back this up, but there are relatively few languages identified in the Indexer Locator's language index. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:05:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: francine cronshaw Subject: Re: Fax machines (was Re: fax software) In-Reply-To: <199908100229.WAA24634@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Kara, One aspect you might look at is the cost of running the different machines, especially in terms of the toner cartridges. A color printer will involve different cartridges (and frankly, one doesn't need it for a text-based business). I'm happy with my fax-copier (Brother); copies cost about five cents each and save me trips to the public library or copy store. Best, Francine Cronshaw East Mountain Editing Services On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, John and Kara Pekar wrote: > I am having similar problems with my fax modem. I, too, am not happy, and > wishing I had bought a fax machine. I've seen plain-paper fax/answering > machines for around $70 (on sale). Does anyone have any thoughts on fax > machines -- really good or bad experiences with particular features and/or > brands? I'm also looking at getting a scanner and at a color printer. I'm > trying to weigh the merits of an all-in-one machine vs. three separate > components. On one hand, the all-in-one has a smaller footprint than three > machines. OTOH, I wonder whether each component in an all-in-one is as > high-quality as I could get if I spent the same amount of money on three > machines. Anyone care to address this? > > TIA, > > Kara Pekar > Wordsmith Indexing Services > jkpekar@crosslink.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:09:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Office Tools and Equipment In-Reply-To: <199908100317.XAA20201@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just a reminder that it's not too early to be thinking about doing > presentations or roundtables at the 2000 ASI conference in Albuquerque. > > A presentation to the general session should run 30-45 minutes. A > roundtable about 1.5 hours. > > If anyone is interested in doing something on this topic, please > contact me > off list. By "this topic" I meant "office tools and equipment." Sorry I wasn't more clear. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:42:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Fax machines (was Re: fax software) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:50 PM 8/9/99 -0400, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >I am having similar problems with my fax modem. I, too, am not happy, and >wishing I had bought a fax machine. I've seen plain-paper fax/answering >machines for around $70 (on sale). Does anyone have any thoughts on fax >machines -- really good or bad experiences with particular features and/or >brands? I'm also looking at getting a scanner and at a color printer. I'm >trying to weigh the merits of an all-in-one machine vs. three separate >components. On one hand, the all-in-one has a smaller footprint than three >machines. OTOH, I wonder whether each component in an all-in-one is as >high-quality as I could get if I spent the same amount of money on three >machines. Anyone care to address this? Generally speaking, you get better components when you buy them separately...but you may not NEED the best-quality copier, fax, or color printer for your usual operations. Today's machines are so vastly improved over what was available, say, five years ago that "medium quality" today is greatly superior to "high quality" back then. I have a Panasonic thermal fax machine (stand-alone) that I bought as a joint investment with my husband about 8 years ago. At that time, Consumer Reports rated it the best of the bunch and a Best Buy to boot. It cost us over $500! It has always worked perfectly, and I certainly would not buy a new one just because it's smaller, ligher, and uses plain paper. But today, you could buy the equivalent machine for probably $100 or less...and it would be better than this one. I send few faxes, so I'm happy with the thermal paper (I simply copy the fax onto regular paper if I think I need to save it). If you send/receive a lot of them, you will want a plain paper machine. If you don't need the latest and greatest, and your budget is limited, go for an all-in-one machine. The one major drawback is that if one component fails, the entire machine will probably be useless until you get that one thing fixed. If you have need of a high-quality copier or color printer, then buy that unit separately and get a standalone fax machine. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:42:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Office Tools and Equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:17 PM 8/9/99 EDT, BECohen653@AOL.COM wrote: >One tool I am contemplating buying is a paper cutter of my own. I currently >go to the copy shop and use theirs when I need one. But there are days I >think I should make room on my work table for one of my own. Is it worth the >price? Would I use it enough to justify giving up the space it takes up? If >my work becomes truly paperless, would I ever use it for anything else? Barbara, I had a pressing need for a papercutter several years ago (not connected to indexing), and I bit the bullet and bought an inexpensive one. It cost me less than $30 at the office supply store, and I have used it a million times since then. I cut up old page proofs to stock our notepaper holders, trim the greeting cards I make on my computer, and my husband (an architect) uses it constantly for cutting plans into pieces. I don't normally use it for actually cutting page proofs for indexing purposes (which you may do), and it certainly isn't big enough or heavy-duty enough to cut apart a bound book so you can index the pages, but it has been a wonderful and inexpensive help around both our offices. And for the price, it seems well worth it to me. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 08:51:59 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Katie Banks Subject: Re: Fax Software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too use efax.com and love it. I recently signed up for their upgrade. For $2.95 per month I can send and receive faxes via e-mail. It's very simple and has not failed me yet. I have a personal fax number that is available 24 hours a day. I can also convert faxes to editable files directly on my computer. The only drawback I have found is that if I want a hardcopy of the fax, I must print it out using my printer which could become fairly costly if it is a very long fax. On the other hand, I don't have to print faxes that I don't need in hardcopy form. I read them just like I would an e-mail. Katie Banks Eagle-Eye Indexing -----Original Message----- From: Nancy A. Guenther To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 5:44 AM Subject: Re: Fax Software >I have never had a separate fax machine, having always relied on software >(and never have had too many faxes) I didn't publicize my fax number but >let it be known that I had one available. If an editor wanted to send me a >fax, they called first & then I loaded the software. No one ever seemed to >mind. > >However, several months ago I found www.efax.com. At no cost for the basic >service, they provide a phone number that you can publicize as your fax >(you have no control over the area code but since my publishers are >scattered across the country, that was not a concern for me) > >The company collects your fax, converts it to an e-mail attachment & sends >it to the e-mail address you provide. So far this has worked well for me. >I still need my fax software for outgoing faxes (this option is a premium >feature) but this alleviates the difficulty on wondering if that next call >is for the fax (and also the need to inform my family everytime I'm >expecting a fax so they know to let the call alone) > >Nancy Guenther >nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 07:49:43 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: Foreign language indexing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Janet, I have never indexed in any foreign language so far. But I would love to index in Punjabi language (it is mother tongue) books. I am also equally comfortable in Hindi but my *written* Hindi has become quite rusty since I moved to US. As far as I know, no publisher in US publishes books in Punjiabi. But I may also be wrong. No publisher from India would give me to index any book because he will have to pay me in US dollars and the exchange rate is pretty high. From cost point of view, it won't be feasible for the publisher. I would also be very interested in knowing if there is any market for Punjabi language books which are being published here or in Canada. I do know some Indian publishers in US, but they publish books only in English language. Happy indexing! MANJIT K. SAHAI >From: JPerlman@AOL.COM >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Foreign language indexing >Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 01:26:05 EDT > >I'm interested to know who out there is working in foreign languages, >preparing indexes on non-English material in the foreign language. > >I occasionally work in Spanish, and have done some medical indexing in >Spanish. I don't know of many others who work in Spanish, nor, for that >matter, am I aware of any other foreign language indexers. It's a corner >of >our profession that is unknown, by and large. I'd love to know who's >working >in what languages. > >Answer on-list or off-list, as you wish. >Thanks in advance! > >Janet Perlman >SOUTHWEST INDEXING >http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:06:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Deborah E. Patton" Subject: another names question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried a different way of handling scholars names this time. Instead of going page-by-page through the text to look up the first initials, I thought I'd try the routine of typing in the references ahead of time. Could probably have gotten a disk, but it didn't take all that long to type them. I have found several in the text that aren't in the references (but that's normal - that Always happens), but I've also found a handful in the references that aren't in the text. For you all who work this way -- is this normal?? Obviously these extras will be deleted in the editing process, but it's a new thing for me and makes me a little uneasy. I can find definate benefits to working this way, but the trade-off is not being able to put the records in record-order (non-sorted order) to check up on myself. I don't remember hearing any of you say you sometimes ended up with leftover references you had to delete. Somehow I'll bet this is normal too, but I don't know. Deborah ============================== Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer Baltimore, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:00:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Organization: Binghamton University Subject: job opportunity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please reply to Sarah Warner, not to index-l. Exciting New Opportunity!! Immediate Opening!! Leading New Jersey pharmaceutical company seeks indexer with 4-6 years experience with indexing pharmaceutical literature. Management experience required. For more information, please contact. Resumes welcome. Sarah Warner Director of Staffing Services and Business Development Wontawk 212/869-3348 (fax) 212/997-1127 wontawk@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:56:18 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cecilia Brems Subject: Newspaper indexing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am indexing a daily paper in a community of 500,000. I currently use WordPerfect to enter indexing, which is then output onto 3x5 cards. I have been asked to gather information on other software options, with indications on cost, flexibility, and possible conversion of existing WordPerfect files to the new software. Would anyone who has had experience indexing a daily newspaper please contact me off-list and give me any information or comments you might have on indexing and/or thesaurus development software for this kind of project? I'd be very grateful for your input. Also, has nayone who has done newspaper indexing ever worked with the newspaper itself (either as an individual or in a joint-venture as part of an organization?) Do you have any comments, suggestions, or even warnings about such a relationship? Thanks very much in advance for any ideas, comments, or information. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:42:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Fax machines (was Re: fax software) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Francine, Thanks for the input! Very helpful! One reason I'm considering a color printer is my kindergarten-age daughter; I already have a laser printer for work. But I'll look into the Brother fax-copier; I think someone else recommended a similar unit, so that's two points in favor of it. Thanks again, Kara ---------- > From: francine cronshaw > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Fax machines (was Re: fax software) > Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 10:05 AM > > Kara, > > One aspect you might look at is the cost of running the different > machines, especially in terms of the toner cartridges. A color > printer will involve different cartridges (and frankly, one doesn't > need it for a text-based business). I'm happy with my fax-copier > (Brother); copies cost about five cents each and save me trips to > the public library or copy store. > > Best, > > Francine Cronshaw > East Mountain Editing Services > > > > > On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, John and Kara Pekar wrote: > > > I am having similar problems with my fax modem. I, too, am not happy, and > > wishing I had bought a fax machine. I've seen plain-paper fax/answering > > machines for around $70 (on sale). Does anyone have any thoughts on fax > > machines -- really good or bad experiences with particular features and/or > > brands? I'm also looking at getting a scanner and at a color printer. I'm > > trying to weigh the merits of an all-in-one machine vs. three separate > > components. On one hand, the all-in-one has a smaller footprint than three > > machines. OTOH, I wonder whether each component in an all-in-one is as > > high-quality as I could get if I spent the same amount of money on three > > machines. Anyone care to address this? > > > > TIA, > > > > Kara Pekar > > Wordsmith Indexing Services > > jkpekar@crosslink.net > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:12:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Grady Subject: Help with index specifications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I am a new indexer and I am hoping someone can help me decipher the index specifications for a book I am working on. The index has a maximum length of 498 lines with 41 characters per line. My question is how do I set my indexing software to keep my line length at 41 characters per line (I use SkyIndex) or do I have to do this manually. Also, does it matter what type and size font I use? Sorry if these questions seem obvious. Thanks for the help, Julie Grady jrussell1@capecod.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:19:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Help with index specifications In-Reply-To: <000601bee36c$a84945e0$9b08e6cd@jrussell1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Julie, I only have one publisher of the many I have worked for who required this type of formatting. But for that publisher this is my process: create the index in SKY keeping only a rough estimate of the number of overruns. generate the index view the index in my word processor (my preference is WordPerfect) change the font to a fixed font like Courier move the margin to force a line break at 41 characters search & replace the [SRt] (soft return code for WordPerfect) with a hard return code & the appropriate indent code at this point you can set the font for whatever you prefer & your line breaks should remain. Nancy Guenther At 04:12 PM 8/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hi All, > I am a new indexer and I am hoping someone can help me decipher the >index specifications for a book I am working on. The index has a maximum >length of 498 lines with 41 characters per line. My question is how do I >set my indexing software to keep my line length at 41 characters per line (I >use SkyIndex) or do I have to do this manually. Also, does it matter what >type and size font I use? Sorry if these questions seem obvious. > >Thanks for the help, > >Julie Grady >jrussell1@capecod.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:38:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Becky & Bob Hornyak Subject: Re: Help with index specifications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Julie I use CINDEX, but I imagine the process is the same with SkyIndex. It is a matter of trial and error. I enter several lines of the index, and then play with the margin settings until I end up with lines the length I need. The type font and size don't matter when you are counting characters per line. Be sure to count spaces and punctuation, too. What I should do is make a cheat sheet for myself so I remember what setting yields what number of characters per line. In fact, I think I'll start one right now! Becky Hornyak, Indexer bhornyak@iquest.net -----Original Message----- From: Julie Grady To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 3:43 PM Subject: Help with index specifications >Hi All, > I am a new indexer and I am hoping someone can help me decipher the >index specifications for a book I am working on. The index has a maximum >length of 498 lines with 41 characters per line. My question is how do I >set my indexing software to keep my line length at 41 characters per line (I >use SkyIndex) or do I have to do this manually. Also, does it matter what >type and size font I use? Sorry if these questions seem obvious. > >Thanks for the help, > >Julie Grady >jrussell1@capecod.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:57:37 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: Help with index specifications Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Julie, I also use SKY Index software. I have a little different method and it has always worked for me. I have never exceeded my space limitations with this method. When I am offered an indexing project, I always ask the editor if the index will be set in 2 or 3 cloumns. Most indexes have 2 columns. At least that is my experience with my clients. I also ask the number of lines per columns. Most of my clients never know. BTW, if the editor sends me the previous edition index, I can count the number of lines from the old edition and go from there. Now here is the method......If the index has 41 lines per column, that means it has 82 lines per index page. BTW, these 82 lines include wrap over lines and the double space among alphabet separators. If you have been provided 5 pages for the index, that means you can't exceed more than 410 lines (82 x 5). So technically, the index itself has less than 410 lines because alphabet separators and wrap over lines take away lot of space. Moreover, most of publishers leave quite some space on the first page of the index between the 'Index title' and 'A' alphabet. That also takes away the space. When you are done with few chapters, print the index in 2 columns on a regular paper and count the lines. Suppose, if your printed index has 120 lines per page, that means your final index (after all the editing) should be about 3.5 pages which will eventually become 5 pages when the index is printed in the book. I hope I have explained clearly enough for you to understand. Happy indexing, MANJIT K. SAHAI >From: Becky & Bob Hornyak >Reply-To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Subject: Re: Help with index specifications >Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:38:12 -0500 > >Hi, Julie > I use CINDEX, but I imagine the process is the same with SkyIndex. It >is >a matter of trial and error. I enter several lines of the index, and then >play with the margin settings until I end up with lines the length I need. >The type font and size don't matter when you are counting characters per >line. Be sure to count spaces and punctuation, too. > What I should do is make a cheat sheet for myself so I remember what >setting yields what number of characters per line. In fact, I think I'll >start one right now! > Becky Hornyak, Indexer > bhornyak@iquest.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: Julie Grady >To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >Date: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 3:43 PM >Subject: Help with index specifications > > > >Hi All, > > I am a new indexer and I am hoping someone can help me decipher the > >index specifications for a book I am working on. The index has a maximum > >length of 498 lines with 41 characters per line. My question is how do I > >set my indexing software to keep my line length at 41 characters per line >(I > >use SkyIndex) or do I have to do this manually. Also, does it matter >what > >type and size font I use? Sorry if these questions seem obvious. > > > >Thanks for the help, > > > >Julie Grady > >jrussell1@capecod.net > > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:41:06 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Re: Help with index specifications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Christine Headley > I am a new indexer and I am hoping someone can help me decipher the >index specifications for a book I am working on. The index has a maximum >length of 498 lines with 41 characters per line. My question is how do I >set my indexing software to keep my line length at 41 characters per line (I >use SkyIndex) or do I have to do this manually. Also, does it matter what >type and size font I use? Sorry if these questions seem obvious. You could probably get Sky to calculate it. I use Macrex, and I can set a print line length of ,say, 41 characters and then print it to a file. When it is done Macrex will say how many lines I have used, and I don't need to look at the file I have created. On the other hand, if you run over the length, it is then easy to look at the file and decide what to cut and juggle. Using a monospaced font, i.e. Courier, for this is definitely worth while. Or you can create a word-processing file with the margins the right distance apart. If you set the margins right, you can get an exact number of characters in between if you use a monospaced font, It could take some fiddling to get it right, but once you have done it once it is easy to re-create for a job with a different specification. Best wishes Christine Christine Headley Copyeditor and Indexer Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:30:37 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Ashtabula? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is really off-topic, but I want to save either the publisher or myself an embarrassing mistake. How do you pronounce "Ashtabula?" I don't need to know the pronunciation to index it, but the publisher's phonetic interpretation looks really off to me, and if I'm right, I'll include it when I send them my usual list of proofreading queries. Thanks, Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Ashtabula? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" On 8/10/1999 7:30 PM John and Kara Pekar wrote (in part): >This is really off-topic, but I want to save either the publisher or myself >an embarrassing mistake. How do you pronounce "Ashtabula?" I don't need >to know the pronunciation to index it, but the publisher's phonetic >interpretation looks really off to me, and if I'm right, I'll include it >when I send them my usual list of proofreading queries. > ash-tah-BYOOL-ah And that's in Ohiah (as we Buckeyes say). Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:43:41 -0400 Reply-To: "David K. Ream" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Organization: Leverage Technologies, Inc. Subject: Re: Ashtabula? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in Ohio we pronounce it: ash-ta-BU-la with the BU as in beau-tiful. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: John and Kara Pekar To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 8:30 PM Subject: Ashtabula? > This is really off-topic, but I want to save either the publisher or myself > an embarrassing mistake. How do you pronounce "Ashtabula?" I don't need > to know the pronunciation to index it, but the publisher's phonetic > interpretation looks really off to me, and if I'm right, I'll include it > when I send them my usual list of proofreading queries. > > Thanks, > Kara Pekar > Wordsmith Indexing Services > jkpekar@crosslink.net > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:45:45 -0400 Reply-To: billgrah@bhip.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: billgraham Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Ashtabula? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John and Kara Pekar wrote: > > This is really off-topic, but I want to save either the publisher or myself > an embarrassing mistake. How do you pronounce "Ashtabula?" I don't need > to know the pronunciation to index it, but the publisher's phonetic > interpretation looks really off to me, and if I'm right, I'll include it > when I send them my usual list of proofreading queries. > > Thanks, > Kara Pekar > Wordsmith Indexing Services > jkpekar@crosslink.net Kara I agree with David K. Ream. But for fun, look up http://members.aol.com/arhf/. This site gave me some information I needed for a hymn festival about P. P. Bliss. Bliss and his wife died in a train wreck at Ashtabula on December 29, 1876. Have fun. Bill Graham ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:46:00 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Journal Indexing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do one periodical indexing job where I allocate subject headings to shortish simple articles mainly by reading the titles of the articles (occasionally I have to check the text of the article as well). These articles usually get two or three subject headings each, but I would call this fairly shallow indexing. I get paid hourly so I can't comment on the per entry rate at the moment. Glenda. > In a message dated 99-08-09 16:08:23 EDT, ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > << I have been offered a 0.65 cents for subject entry and 0.45 > cents for name > entry. Each article will need 2-3 entries in total. My questions > are....... > >> > > > That's a decent rate. I think that 2-3 per article will be way under > estimated if the articles are from a science journal Just take a look at > the author list for a few articles. You will find from 1-10 names. > > Although I hate typing author indexes, they pay a very good > hourly rate. > No analysis just cash per entry. 8-) > > Sharon > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:47:02 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: A search for bunions finds an article on indexing! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An acquaintance today told me that she found an article of mine about indexing, on the Internet, when doing a search for bunions. My article was a short piece in the AusSI Newsletter on specialisation by indexers, and quoted an ad from our local paper in which a naturopath claimed to specialise in "acne, angina, arthritis, anxiety, bile overproduction, bladder problems, bunions, and so on". (I made this list up now, but the original was similar). What a wonderful example of the way free-text searching can fail on the web. Glenda. =================================== Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Indexing, PC Training, Web Page Authoring http://www.hermes.net.au/jonjermey jonjermey@hermes.net.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:50:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: klrsak Subject: Re: Help with index specifications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julie - Depending on the book, of course, but 498 lines could be a severe space limitation, in which case you might want to use para format rather than indent. If this is the case DO NOT calculate in Sky. Sky gives you a count for indented format. If your index is para you'll end up way over your line limit. Generate the index, (rather, in Sky, use view/edit/print), then set the right margin in your word processor. There are 10 characters to an inch so 41 characters would be slightly more than 4 inches (if you work in inches rather than something else (both Word and Word Perfect can give you all the equivalences, under Options, I think). Word lets me set it at 41/16th or 41/8th, 41/16th slightly under for measurements, 41/8th slightly over, but not a problem since with line limitations I don't agonize about coming up with exactly that many lines. If I come up with three lines less thats all right. (Because I emphasize thoroughness in an index I needn't sweat a few entries under.) After you've set the right margin let your word processor count your lines, then go back into SKY, delete as necessary, view/edit/print again until you've got the perfect combo between what the text needs and what the limit is. If your word processor tells you you've got 495 lines and the editor wants the index under 498 I myself would go with it. (The index in the book may be 2 columns, but in my experience production managers make it easy: 498 lines means 498 lines for your single column index. They want you to do an index, not spec the book for them.) Its the quality and proofing of the index thats important. If you spend a lot of time insuring these then you won't have time to mess around coming up with the exact number of lines. lacoG indexing klrsak@oneimage.com 303 838 0274 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:36:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Ashtabula? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to everyone who replied; the result was unanimous for ash-tuh-BYOO-luh / ash-tah-BYOO-lah, which is how I have always heard it pronounced as well. So the author is mistaken, and I will add the correction to my list of proofreading notes. Though I haven't said so recently, I am always amazed by the support, friendliness, and intelligence exhibited by the people on this list. You are a terrific bunch of people! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:16:37 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: s bodell Subject: quark to skyindex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Does anyone have information on "translating" files from Quark to SkyIndex? I have a publisher who wants an index done completely electronically. I appreciate any help! Sheila Bodell Indexing Services PO Box 8211 La Crescenta, CA 91224-8211 bodells@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:32:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rick Melanson Subject: Re: quark to skyindex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry to bother everyone with this, but I am leaving my job and would like to unsubscribe to this list. How do I do that. Thank you for you help. -----Original Message----- From: s bodell [mailto:bodells@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 12:17 PM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: quark to skyindex Does anyone have information on "translating" files from Quark to SkyIndex? I have a publisher who wants an index done completely electronically. I appreciate any help! Sheila Bodell Indexing Services PO Box 8211 La Crescenta, CA 91224-8211 bodells@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:19:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: ship names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it customary to index ship names without the HMS or USS prefix, or must this be included? If it is included, should it appear before or after the ship's name? IOW, do I index: a) Batory, 15 b) Batory, HMS, 15 c) Batory (HMS), 15 d) Batory. See HMS Batory HMS Batory, 15 e) [some other way, of which I am ignorant] (Assume the ship name is italicized in each case.) My inclination is to go with B or C; I can't imagine looking for a ship under the HMS or USS prefix, but I will bow to convention if necessary. Unfortunately, none of the references immediately available to me address this issue as it pertains to indexes, so I'm falling back upon the collective wisdom. :-) Thanks! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:31:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need some moral support on a project. This project came to me last May, for 475 pages, to be completed in 2 weeks (my schedule was very open). Originally I had no page limit, and they estimated 20 entries per page (it is a substantial history text with a lot of names). By mid June, I still had not received final pagination, but had a copy of text. The editor and I agreed that I would begin marking the text, and when final pagination arrived "within a week," if there were a lot of reindexing involved I would charge a separate hourly rate. Every week the editor called saying "next week", and my schedule was growing tighter and tighter. I told her it simply must be finished by August 1. July 27 I got my first batch of final pagination. I began entering terms, finding that the repagination was not very different, so no problem. I did not receive any more text for several days (meanwhile my schedule is horrendous), then a large batch, now with instructions to also include endnotes and the preface/intro & afterword,etc (about 35 pages). Then I received the last third of the book. They have wanted to see the index as it progressed, so I emailed a copy. This past Saturday night, they wanted to know where the appendices were. I said I did not know that I was supposed to index them (They had been sent to me in July, with a crudely formed index their friend had done in Word to use as my guide). There were 176 pages, and the "index" was not helpful so I had to re-index them all. This caused much editing to be done to the original index (adding subheadings, etc.). I was also informed that, although originally I had no space limitations and was indexing this way, I was going to have to add the 176 pages AND limit myself to 40 pages ( I'm averaging 10 entries per page)!!! My deadline is today. I don't even know what I have anymore...the index has virtually been re-written four times, and I am working from two sets of page proofs. I am sleep deprived and exhausted, and I still have not written a final exam I am supposed to be giving tonight! I never would have agreed to a job at this time, and somehow this all snuck up on me (every time they said "next week...", plus I had already done a lot of work and wanted to get paid). I was exceptionally careful to keep myself "covered"...I told them of my difficulties and that every change would cost, and I (originally!) had a very specific letter of agreement that in no way applies to the current situation now. So my question is, what would you charge? What did I do wrong? Should my conscience be bothering me that it is a slightly flawed index, or am I to be commended for pulling it off at all? (I don't think it is too bad...certainly better then the "friend" would have done!) I'm too new to have a "file of praise" to make me feel better, but I am certainly going to start one! Kari Miller (asleep at keyboard) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:06:41 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rick Melanson Subject: Re: ship names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Can anyone tell me how to unsubscribe to this list. Thank you very much. -----Original Message----- From: John and Kara Pekar [mailto:jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET] Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 1:20 PM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Subject: ship names Is it customary to index ship names without the HMS or USS prefix, or must this be included? If it is included, should it appear before or after the ship's name? IOW, do I index: a) Batory, 15 b) Batory, HMS, 15 c) Batory (HMS), 15 d) Batory. See HMS Batory HMS Batory, 15 e) [some other way, of which I am ignorant] (Assume the ship name is italicized in each case.) My inclination is to go with B or C; I can't imagine looking for a ship under the HMS or USS prefix, but I will bow to convention if necessary. Unfortunately, none of the references immediately available to me address this issue as it pertains to indexes, so I'm falling back upon the collective wisdom. :-) Thanks! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:17:01 -0300 Reply-To: Noeline Bridge Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: ship names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Definitely b) or c). But what about direct entry, only with the HMS and USS being non-filing letters? Whenever I've had to index the names of ships, I've entered them with the HMS first, but alphabetized under the name itself: artillery HMS Batory (Batory should be in italics, of course) battering rams Beattie, David, Admiral USS Bill Clinton binnacles Blackbeard (pirate) cannonballs cavalry HMS Dreadnought But there weren't many names of ships per index. If the names constitute the majority of entries, or dominate in some way, I would choose your c), unless the context of your book decrees otherwise--e.g., formal histories may require a formal entry. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:27:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > So my question is, what would you charge? What did > I do wrong? Should As you've found out, you can "warn" all you want, but unless it has teeth, so what. As I described in a previous response to someone who had an outlandish schedule (8 days for a bazzilion pages, or something like that), it's what you don't know that will bite you in the butt. Set a scedule of major milestones and place monetary penalty against breaking them. Money talks. Example: First markup due from client 8/15 Leeway: 48 hours Penalty: $200 per day starting 8/17 === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com 732-594-0873 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:59:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: susanhernandez@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: ship names Hi Kara, My husband has a very large collection of military history books, and I looked at some of the indexes for an answer. They consistently indexed the ships with the italicized name only - no HMS or USS. One index gave the name with the type of ship in paren: *Victorious* (carrier). - Susan >Is it customary to index ship names without the HMS or USS prefix, or >must >this be included? If it is included, should it appear before or after >the >ship's name? IOW, do I index: > >a) Batory, 15 > >b) Batory, HMS, 15 > >c) Batory (HMS), 15 > >d) Batory. See HMS Batory > HMS Batory, 15 > >e) [some other way, of which I am ignorant] > >(Assume the ship name is italicized in each case.) > >My inclination is to go with B or C; I can't imagine looking for a >ship >under the HMS or USS prefix, but I will bow to convention if >necessary. >Unfortunately, none of the references immediately available to me >address >this issue as it pertains to indexes, so I'm falling back upon the >collective wisdom. :-) > >Thanks! > >Kara Pekar >Wordsmith Indexing Services >jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:52:56 -0700 Reply-To: Homer Ellison Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Re: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kari, it seems to me that they have broken every one of their own deadlines -- how can they now come to you and impose an immediate deadline on you? Don't let them push you around. Since they were so lenient with their own deadlines, putting you in an extremely difficult position, you now certainly have the right to insist on an adjustment to your deadline to accommodate your now-impacted schedule. You have all the leverage, since they are the ones who broke the original agreement (several times over). Good luck! ----- Homer Ellison Advantage Media Solutions Manuscript services advms@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Kari Miller To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:31 AM Subject: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) >I need some moral support on a project. This project came to me last >May, for 475 pages, to be completed in 2 weeks (my schedule was very >open). Originally I had no page limit, and they estimated 20 entries per ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:33:16 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: SageWords1@AOL.COM Subject: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you so much, everyone, for your thoughts and ideas about my fax software problem. Of course, I received some really useful suggestions. My favorite is using my fax software for outgoing faxes and signing up with e-fax.com for incoming faxes. Fantastic! Another question--I need to buy a general thesaurus. Anyone have a favorite? Anyone know which one is considered "the authority" these days? Of course, Roget's comes to mind, but I want to make sure before I go ahead and buy. Thanks, again... Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:13:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:27 AM 8/11/99 -0700, John Posada wrote: >As I described in a previous response to someone who >had an outlandish schedule (8 days for a bazzilion >pages, or something like that), it's what you don't >know that will bite you in the butt. > >Set a scedule of major milestones and place monetary >penalty against breaking them. Money talks. > >Example: > >First markup due from client 8/15 >Leeway: 48 hours >Penalty: $200 per day starting 8/17 John , I can't imagine any of my clients signing such an agreement...not that I haven't wished that I had one with such teeth now and then. I think that there is a way to use monetary penalties, but not quite in the manner you describe. Rather, I would insert a clause regarding milestones AND another clause defining what constitutes a late fee and/or rush charge. I might say something like, "Client promises to have all final page proofs to indexer by 00/00/99, in order to keep to predetermined index due date of 00/00/99. In the event that page proofs (or any portion of them) arrive after X date, it is understood that the index due date will slip to Y date. If client requires that the original date be kept, there will be a rush charge of $Z applied to this job." I might add more specific information, depending on the situation. For example, if I am fitting a project in between two already-established jobs, and the new book causes my other schedule[s] to slip, the publisher might incure a late charge...and so on. But to just baldly demand a rather large fee (which might be as much as 25% of the job) for a 48-hour slippage seems a little out of line and something that most publishers will not understand or accept. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:10:54 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dalindex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/11/99 4:38:55 PM EST, SageWords1@aol.com writes: << Another question--I need to buy a general thesaurus. Anyone have a favorite? Anyone know which one is considered "the authority" these days? Of course, Roget's comes to mind, but I want to make sure before I go ahead and buy. >> I have been using J.I. Rodale's ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:12:17 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dalindex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/11/99 4:38:55 PM EST, SageWords1@aol.com writes: << Another question--I need to buy a general thesaurus. Anyone have a favorite? Anyone know which one is considered "the authority" these days? Of course, Roget's comes to mind, but I want to make sure before I go ahead and buy. >> I have been using J.I. Rodale's The Synonym Finder (Rodale Press) for many years and like it very much. Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:12:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Rates, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, Well, yesterday was an interesting day. A medical publisher's representative (new indexing coordinator) called me, asking about my availability for projects and other things. He wanted to fax me a copy of his business card and asked me for my fax number, which I gave to him. After a few minutes of chit-chat, he asked me if I had any concerns I wanted to discuss with him. I started out by saying that I wanted a definitive specifications sheet. And then I decided to go for it, standing up for all of us who toil for hours and hours on incredibly dense and complicated books, books that demand an educational background in the subject and years of indexing experience. I said that the publisher in the past paid very poorly for the type of work they needed from us indexers. I said that I realized that they had budgets to handle, but that realistically speaking when a book had two columns per page and 15-20 entries per page that it was time to re-examine their pay rates, and I made some suggestions as to how much would be a good rate of pay. Guess what, he never faxed his card to me. I guess I lost a customer, but you know, I think I had to say what I said because we really are not data entry people. WE ARE NOT!! Today I spent hours and hours editing an index for another publisher and each time I went over it, I could see more and more places where pieces fell into place, where relationships suddenly sprung forth into my consciousness, etc. And this was after several days of data entry, of marked text, of total concentration on the subject. How sad it is that we are not heard about our skills. How I wish we could figure out some way to quantify the importance of good indexing. Glenda's story about the bunion search turning up her article on indexing says it all ... What are we going to do about this? We have the skills and the ability to make the world's information stand out, to be accessed readily, and we are not being heard. Cynthia (feeling a bit discouraged) ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 19:21:01 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KimIndex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ship names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was a librarian in a City shipping law firm for nine years. Name of ship first. Miss out any HMS or SS etc. You wouldn't put SS Titanic for example! Best Kim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:33:43 -0700 Reply-To: Homer Ellison Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Debbie, I have Roget's Super Thesaurus and couldn't be happier with it. It goes way beyond what most thesauruses (thesauri? ...whatever) will give you. Other people may have other ideas, however. Homer ----- Homer Ellison Advantage Media Solutions Manuscript services advms@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: SageWords1@AOL.COM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 2:37 PM Subject: Thanks, and Thesaurus >Thank you so much, everyone, for your thoughts and ideas about my fax >software problem. Of course, I received some really useful suggestions. My >favorite is using my fax software for outgoing faxes and signing up with >e-fax.com for incoming faxes. Fantastic! > >Another question--I need to buy a general thesaurus. Anyone have a favorite? > Anyone know which one is considered "the authority" these days? Of course, >Roget's comes to mind, but I want to make sure before I go ahead and buy. > >Thanks, again... > >Debbie Graf ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:44:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Wyatt Organization: Keyword Editorial Services Subject: Re: quark to skyindex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheila: I don't know what you mean by "translating" from Quark to Sky, but this is the way I do it (assuming you are working on the Quark document using Quark software): 1) Print out text, and mark index terms with highlighter 2) Assign a running number to every highlighted term (based on any numbering scheme used in the text, like chapter number, clause number etc, e.g. 14.53 for the 53rd highlighted term in Chapter 14) 3) Create my index, entering the index-term number as a page number. 4) Ensure everbody's happy with the edited index 5) In Sky, switch to Page order view and print a Proofing report in index-term number order 6) With the Prrofing report and the marked-up text beside me, I embed the terms in the Quark file. Michael Wyatt Keyword Editorial Services 22 Kendall Street, Surry Hills 2010 Australia Phone 0500 539 973 Fax (02) 9331 7785 keyword@ozemail.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: s bodell To: Sent: Wednesday, 11 August, 1999 9:16 Subject: quark to skyindex > Does anyone have information on "translating" files from Quark to SkyIndex? > I have a publisher who wants an index done completely electronically. I > appreciate any help! > > > Sheila Bodell > Indexing Services > PO Box 8211 > La Crescenta, CA 91224-8211 > bodells@hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:12:15 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sonsie... I shot that off quickly and I was trying to make a point. I think what is important is that the overall scope be examined, that the customer understand that you have a business to run and won't put yourself in a position that jepordizes your other clients just like you won't let them jepordize them. It might be monetary, it might be a sliding schedule, it might be a hybrid arrangement. Sit down with the client, express your concerns and let them know that you are a reputable source and should be treated same. --- Sonsie Conroy wrote: > At 11:27 AM 8/11/99 -0700, John Posada wrote: > > >As I described in a previous response to someone > who > >had an outlandish schedule (8 days for a bazzilion > >pages, or something like that), it's what you don't > >know that will bite you in the butt. > > > >Set a scedule of major milestones and place > monetary > >penalty against breaking them. Money talks. > > > >Example: > > > >First markup due from client 8/15 > >Leeway: 48 hours > >Penalty: $200 per day starting 8/17 > > John , I can't imagine any of my clients signing > such an agreement...not > that I haven't wished that I had one with such teeth > now and then. > > I think that there is a way to use monetary > penalties, but not quite in the > manner you describe. Rather, I would insert a clause > regarding milestones > AND another clause defining what constitutes a late > fee and/or rush charge. > > I might say something like, "Client promises to have > all final page proofs > to indexer by 00/00/99, in order to keep to > predetermined index due date of > 00/00/99. In the event that page proofs (or any > portion of them) arrive > after X date, it is understood that the index due > date will slip to Y date. > If client requires that the original date be kept, > there will be a rush > charge of $Z applied to this job." > > I might add more specific information, depending on > the situation. For > example, if I am fitting a project in between two > already-established jobs, > and the new book causes my other schedule[s] to > slip, the publisher might > incure a late charge...and so on. > > But to just baldly demand a rather large fee (which > might be as much as 25% > of the job) for a 48-hour slippage seems a little > out of line and something > that most publishers will not understand or accept. > > Sonsie > sconroy@slonet.org > === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com 732-594-0873 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 20:52:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Ship names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you to those who replied to my query about ship names. Very helpful! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:16:12 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Rates, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cynthia, In a message dated 99-08-11 19:19:41 EDT, you write: << We have the skills and the ability to make the world's information stand out, to be accessed readily, and we are not being heard. >> Of course, you're right on the one hand. On the other hand, here's a few items to consider: First we have to give up the idea that others will pay for how much they appreciate what we do. As long as someone somewhere accepts low rates, bottom line fiscal considerations will prevail. Living wage ordinances seem reasonable unless you as an employer can get away with paying less because this filing rule applies to wages too, something is more than nothing--to lots of folks. Second we have to satisfy our own needs for appreciation, e.g., this index is first-rate and I did it; I think I'll keep at it. Doing the best we can shapes our own reward. Third we need to do what we love and (it's been said) the money will follow...hopefully in our lifetime, if not to us, to future colleagues. Creative jobs that offer opportunity for self-fulfillment don't seem to be particularly plentiful for a given person's (perhaps limited) set of skills. The pre-school song, "If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands," has life-long application. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:03:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cournoyer Subject: Re: Foreign language indexing MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Janet, So far I have only indexed in English but recently an editor offered me both the English and French versions of the same book. I am perfectly bilingual but I know the French book will take longer to index (I work faster in English and there will undoubtedly be many accents to key in) so I offered to suggest other indexers for the job. She refused and insisted I do both books. So, soon, I will be indexing in French. A few other members of the Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada also index in English and French. Linda Cardella Cournoyer cardella@videotron.ca 1189 Desmarais Beloeil, Quebec J3G 5A9 Phone: (450) 464-3475 Fax: (450) 464-8168 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: August 10, 1999 1:26 AM Subject: Foreign language indexing > I'm interested to know who out there is working in foreign languages, > preparing indexes on non-English material in the foreign language. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:55:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Arel Lucas Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I realize this request for a recommendation of a thesaurus referred to a printed text, but I thought I might take this opportunity to delurk & recommend my (so far) favorite online dictionary/thesaurus: http://www.wordsmyth.net/ I haven't seen any other versions of Wordsmith yet, but I keep this minimized on my screen while I'm indexing video material, and find it invaluable. The original recommendation came from the ASI site, but I don't know if the URL has been corrected there yet to the new ".net" domain. Arel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:38:11 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: charges for late proofs (was What do I charge? Where did I go wrong?) In-Reply-To: <19990811182754.3371.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One trouble with charging for late delivery of page proofs is that this might discourage publishers from contacting indexers early in the piece. The earlier they book an indexer, the more likely they are to deliver late. If they only ring the indexer the day they have the proofs ready they will have no risk of late fees, but will have given indexers no ability to plan. Some delays, especially with changes, are horrific, but to put a standard fee for every late delivery is tricky. I am always specific in my letter I send to publishers about what I have agreed, eg. I will complete the index by 10/8 if I receive full and final page proofs by 1/8. That way if they slip I have made no agreement about deadlines and so on. Glenda. > Set a scedule of major milestones and place monetary > penalty against breaking them. Money talks. > > Example: > > First markup due from client 8/15 > Leeway: 48 hours > Penalty: $200 per day starting 8/17 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 23:55:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Rates, etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Diane, Yes, I know the money is not everything; I wouldn't still be an indexer if it were the only important thing about my work! ;-> The bit about appreciating oneself and one's work is also true--spending lots of time getting it "right" before I send an index out the door attests to that. However, I am not sure the money will follow automatically, no matter how much we love our work and independence. The squeaky wheel usually gets the grease UNLESS there's the situation like we have in indexing, where (as you say) something (meaning some money, I assume) is better than nothing (meaning no money at all). In other words, the market pays us what it can get away with ... because we let it happen. I still think that speaking up is better than staying silent on pay rates. Complacency can be dangerous. Look at history--did anything ever change when people kept silent? And there's a larger issue here, too. The issue? Our role in information access at a time when there is more out there than just books and journals. The problem is still that we cannot quantify our worth like a computer programmer can or a doctor or a plumber or any number of other professions. So, again I say we have the skills and the ability to make the world's information stand out, to be accessed readily, and we are not being heard. Cynthia (still discouraged, but going back to work now) At 10:16 PM 8/11/99 EDT, WordenDex@AOL.COM wrote: >Cynthia, >In a message dated 99-08-11 19:19:41 EDT, you write: ><< We have the skills and the ability to make the world's information stand >out, to be accessed readily, and we are not being heard. >> > Of course, you're right on the one hand. On the other hand, here's a >few items to consider: > First we have to give up the idea that others will pay for how much >they appreciate what we do. As long as someone somewhere accepts low rates, >bottom line fiscal considerations will prevail. Living wage ordinances seem >reasonable unless you as an employer can get away with paying less because >this filing rule applies to wages too, something is more than nothing--to >lots of folks. > Second we have to satisfy our own needs for appreciation, e.g., this >index is first-rate and I did it; I think I'll keep at it. Doing the best we >can shapes our own reward. > Third we need to do what we love and (it's been said) the money will >follow...hopefully in our lifetime, if not to us, to future colleagues. >Creative jobs that offer opportunity for self-fulfillment don't seem to be >particularly plentiful for a given person's (perhaps limited) set of skills. >The pre-school song, "If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands," has >life-long application. > Diane in Kazoo > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:56:23 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: rates and professionalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good morning, all -- Diane Worden said, "we have to give up the idea that others will pay for how much they appreciate what we do." --EXCUSE ME?! I don't know what planet you're on, but there's no way I will *ever* give up the notion of expecting to be appreciated for my work. I say this as a successful professional and as one who insists on quality, both in herself and from others, and as one who believes in high expectations. I've seen too many folks rise to my highest expectations and beyond to ever think I ought not expect the best in others. My sincerest apologies for any emotionalism; this comment struck a real chord in me. I *totally* agree with Cynthia Bertelsen on this, and think she was completely in the right to try to educate her clients as to what quality indexing is worth. Diane also said, "Second we have to satisfy our own needs for appreciation, e.g., this index is first-rate and I did it; I think I'll keep at it. Doing the best we can shapes our own reward." --Hear, Hear! And, "Third we need to do what we love and (it's been said) the money will follow...hopefully in our lifetime, if not to us, to future colleagues." --Perhaps I'm just one (of many, I believe) who has found such already in indexing, and who believes that it will continue to come to future colleagues. On a related note, especially considering how one gets from bunions to indexing, there's a whizzer of an article in the latest Forbes magazine about searching the Internet. The article talks about some of the latest searching programs. While there is a comment that context is what defines a successful search, there's otherwise barely any mention of the human element, unfortunately. I suspect that if taxonomy or indexing, or whatever you want to call it on the Internet, is truly appreciated -- not too far off an idea considering the stock values of many of those e-businesses, we may well see a trickle-down effect, so to speak, in the more traditional media. Rant off, Pilar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- L. Pilar Wyman * Wyman Indexing PilarW@aol.com Great Indexes for Great Books ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:27:19 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: francine cronshaw Subject: Re: Foreign language indexing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Listeros/Listeras, Very often up to or around half the projects I'm working on will be books in Spanish. They can be college Spanish textbooks or books on consumer/alternative health issues, or on any topics at all, but published entirely in Spanish. I'm the only person I know who does that volume of work in a language other than English. I also work on lots of books on Latin American topics and my knowledge of Spanish is very handy for picking up inconsistencies and incorrect usages with names and terms in Spanish. Editors really seem to appreciate that! Best, Francine Cronshaw East Mountain Editing Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:19:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: charges for late proofs (was What do I charge? Where did I go wrong?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think this approach, (you make up the rules, schedule and amounts) MIGHT scare away a good one or two, but it would definately scare away the bad ones, and is that bad? It is OK to not accept a job. Maybe only institute it in situations where you have a "feeling" that there is more to a situation than meets the eye..such as why would any responsible organization schedule only 8 days to edit a document and index from scratch 400 pages of manual? Maybe they orinaly reserved more time, but software slippage in an out-of-control software development department resulted in the deadline, and if that is the case, why would they suddenly have a change in approach and handle everything responsibly? Only use it at your discretion, but keep it in your "back pocket" to apply when appropriate. As far as discouraging contact..you can write up the scope any way you want. I was in sales for 15 years and it was normal to be contacted by the client as much as a year before the project was to start. You can keep it as loose or as tight as you want. Timers don't have to start until you want them to. The whole point is that you are expected to do what you say, when you say and you are expecting the client to act the same way. I may be new at this "indexing-biz", but in the short time that I've been reading these posts, a substantial amount of bandwidth has been devoted to clients that don't deliver on time, and when they do deliver, it resembles nothing like the promised material. Let's remember that business is business, and in a business, there must be two responsible parties; the client and the vendor. You aren't indexing for the fun of it (though you can have fun doing it), you are indexing to make money...to eat, pay rent/mortgage/cloth the kids. Also, an incompetent client damages more than you and your sanity...it also affects the responsible clients that do hold up their end of the agreement and you have a responsibility to them too. Besides...you don't have to invoke the penalty unless you believe the committment was missed due to no justifiable reason or just plain incompetence. If the reason is justifiable, wave the penalty and look like a hero. --- Jonathan Jermey wrote: > One trouble with charging for late delivery of page > proofs is that this > might discourage publishers from contacting indexers > early in the piece. The > earlier they book an indexer, the more likely they > are to deliver late. If > they only ring the indexer the day they have the > proofs ready they will have > no risk of late fees, but will have given indexers > no ability to plan. > > Some delays, especially with changes, are horrific, > but to put a standard > fee for every late delivery is tricky. > > I am always specific in my letter I send to > publishers about what I have > agreed, eg. I will complete the index by 10/8 if I > receive full and final > page proofs by 1/8. That way if they slip I have > made no agreement about > deadlines and so on. > > Glenda. > > > Set a scedule of major milestones and place > monetary > > penalty against breaking them. Money talks. > > > > Example: > > > > First markup due from client 8/15 > > Leeway: 48 hours > > Penalty: $200 per day starting 8/17 > > > === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com 732-594-0873 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:20:45 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Rates, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cynthia, In a message dated 99-08-12 00:00:28 EDT, you write: << I still think that speaking up is better than staying silent on pay rates. Complacency can be dangerous. Look at history--did anything ever change when people kept silent? >> Agreed. We do need to tell it like it is. I'm not silent about pay when working with a new client. However, it is up to me to either accept or reject his/her offer and it's up to the client to accept or reject mine. If I can't be satisfied with the results of our discussion, I won't take the job. Once taken, the job brings its own rewards as well as the agreed upon pay. << And there's a larger issue here, too. The issue? ... The problem is still that we cannot quantify our worth like a computer programmer can or a doctor or a plumber or any number of other professions. >> I don't think these professions quantify well either re pay. They too charge what the market will bear and according to supply and demand. Both they and we know how much it costs to acquire appropriate training and run our businesses to earn what we'd like to make. Our skills, however, do result in an unquantifiable product--reader time and satisfaction--far removed from our endpoint of submitting work to clients; their products--efficient recordkeeping and/or widget production, no/little hospitalization, freely running pipes--are quantifiable. << ... (still discouraged, but going back to work now) >> Hope that work as its own reward counteracts some degree of fatalistic discouragement. It has to if we keep at it. Otherwise, it's time to find some other way to make ends meet and keep sane. When I feel abused, I know it's time to change. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:31:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: rates and professionalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pilar, In a message dated 99-08-12 09:01:40 EDT, you write: << Diane Worden said, "we have to give up the idea that others will pay for how much they appreciate what we do." --EXCUSE ME?! I don't know what planet you're on, but there's no way I will *ever* give up the notion of expecting to be appreciated for my work. I say this as a successful professional and as one who insists on quality, both in herself and from others, and as one who believes in high expectations. I've seen too many folks rise to my highest expectations and beyond to ever think I ought not expect the best in others. >> The planet I'm on is the same as yours. Apparently more than one client, considering previous discussions of low pay, appreciate our work without paying us what we're worth. I don't disagree about high expectations bringing out the best in others, tho sometimes I've been disappointed. Better to err on the positive side. Realistically, if appreciation for work well done is to come from somewhere, it can come from within myself when it doesn't come from elsewhere. I do continue to have high expectations about my own performance, but my self-worth is not going to hinge on unappreciative clients or anyone else. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:46:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Halter, Meg" Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Is the Roget's Super Thesaurus structured like the original Roget's Thesaurus (which I love!) or like Roget's II, which structured like a dictionary? -- Meg > -----Original Message----- > From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 4:34 PM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus > > Debbie, > > I have Roget's Super Thesaurus and couldn't be happier with it. It goes > way > beyond what most thesauruses (thesauri? ...whatever) will give you. Other > people may have other ideas, however. > > Homer > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:18:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: charges for late proofs (was What do I charge? Where did I go MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think this approach, (you make up the rules, schedule and amounts) MIGHT scare away a good one or two, but it would definately scare away the bad ones, and is that bad? It is OK to not accept a job. Maybe only institute it in situations where you have a "feeling" that there is more to a situation than meets the eye..such as why would any responsible organization schedule only 8 days to edit a document and index from scratch 400 pages of manual? Maybe they orinaly reserved more time, but software slippage in an out-of-control software development department resulted in the deadline, and if that is the case, why would they suddenly have a change in approach and handle everything responsibly? Only use it at your discretion, but keep it in your "back pocket" to apply when appropriate. As far as discouraging contact..you can write up the scope any way you want. I was in sales for 15 years and it was normal to be contacted by the client as much as a year before the project was to start. You can keep it as loose or as tight as you want. Timers don't have to start until you want them to. The whole point is that you are expected to do what you say, when you say and you are expecting the client to act the same way. I may be new at this "indexing-biz", but in the short time that I've been reading these posts, a substantial amount of bandwidth has been devoted to clients that don't deliver on time, and when they do deliver, it resembles nothing like the promised material. Let's remember that business is business, and in a business, there must be two responsible parties; the client and the vendor. You aren't indexing for the fun of it (though you can have fun doing it), you are indexing to make money...to eat, pay rent/mortgage/cloth the kids. Also, an incompetent client damages more than you and your sanity...it also affects the responsible clients that do hold up their end of the agreement and you have a responsibility to them too. Besides...you don't have to invoke the penalty unless you believe the committment was missed due to no justifiable reason or just plain incompetence. If the reason is justifiable, wave the penalty and look like a hero. > > --- Jonathan Jermey wrote: > > One trouble with charging for late delivery of > page > > proofs is that this > > might discourage publishers from contacting > indexers > > early in the piece. The > > earlier they book an indexer, the more likely they > > are to deliver late. If > > they only ring the indexer the day they have the > > proofs ready they will have > > no risk of late fees, but will have given indexers > > no ability to plan. > > > > Some delays, especially with changes, are > horrific, > > but to put a standard > > fee for every late delivery is tricky. > > > > I am always specific in my letter I send to > > publishers about what I have > > agreed, eg. I will complete the index by 10/8 if I > > receive full and final > > page proofs by 1/8. That way if they slip I have > > made no agreement about > > deadlines and so on. > > > > Glenda. > > > > > Set a scedule of major milestones and place > > monetary > > > penalty against breaking them. Money talks. > > > > > > Example: > > > > > > First markup due from client 8/15 > > > Leeway: 48 hours > > > Penalty: $200 per day starting 8/17 > > > > > > > === > John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories > Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html > (work) john_posada@merck.com > (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com > 732-594-0873 > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com 732-594-0873 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:26:30 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: What do I charge? Where did I go wrong? (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:12 PM 8/11/99 -0700, John Posada wrote: >I shot that off quickly and I was trying to make a >point. I think what is important is that the overall >scope be examined, that the customer understand that >you have a business to run and won't put yourself in a >position that jepordizes your other clients just like >you won't let them jepordize them. > >It might be monetary, it might be a sliding schedule, >it might be a hybrid arrangement. > >Sit down with the client, express your concerns and >let them know that you are a reputable source and >should be treated same. I think we agree, then, John. Sonsie sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:23:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Dutch name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need a little help with a Dutch (possibly German?) name: Willemien van de Zand. I'm not sure under which element to index this. I suspect it should be "Zand, Willemien van de." That would accord with Mulvany, but she doesn't show any examples of Dutch names with more than one prefix, and neither does Chicago. Chicago also shows a Dutch name with "Van" capitalized, which is how I've usually seen it. Given the other typos I've found, it's possible that the typesetter goofed on the capitalization. Would that make any difference in which element to use in indexing? Thanks, Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:35:51 -0700 Reply-To: Homer Ellison Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Re: rates and professionalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: PilarW@AOL.COM To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 5:59 AM Subject: rates and professionalism >Good morning, all -- > >Diane Worden said, "we have to give up the idea that others will pay for how >much they appreciate what we do." >--EXCUSE ME?! >I don't know what planet you're on, but there's no way I will *ever* give up >the notion of expecting to be appreciated for my work. The chief operating words here were *pay for*. The client can appreciate one's work all they want; however, the bottom line that drives any business is money, not appreciation. While it's true that a client who doesn't appreciate the service provider's work may go elsewhere, payment for services rendered is based on perceived value, a combination of perceived quality and the bottom dollar. Homer ----- Homer Ellison Advantage Media Solutions Manuscript services advms@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:41:05 -0700 Reply-To: Homer Ellison Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Homer Ellison Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Meg, I must admit I haven't been a big user of thesauri until fairly recently, so I have to ask you to give me more information on the difference between the two so I can give you a fair answer. Homer ----- Homer Ellison Advantage Media Solutions Manuscript services advms@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: Halter, Meg To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:50 AM Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >Is the Roget's Super Thesaurus structured like the original Roget's >Thesaurus (which I love!) or like Roget's II, which structured like a >dictionary? > >-- Meg > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Homer Ellison [SMTP:advms@MINDSPRING.COM] >> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 4:34 PM >> To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU >> Subject: Re: Thanks, and Thesaurus >> >> Debbie, >> >> I have Roget's Super Thesaurus and couldn't be happier with it. It goes >> way >> beyond what most thesauruses (thesauri? ...whatever) will give you. Other >> people may have other ideas, however. >> >> Homer >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:24:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Dutch name Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From the looks of the Dutch example in AACR2, you're right: Zand, Willemien van de. Usually the Van is first if the person is English-speaking with a name of Dutch origin (like Van Buren, Martin), according to AACR2 anyway. Cynthia At 01:23 PM 8/12/99 -0400, John and Kara Pekar wrote: >I need a little help with a Dutch (possibly German?) name: Willemien van >de Zand. I'm not sure under which element to index this. I suspect it >should be "Zand, Willemien van de." That would accord with Mulvany, but >she doesn't show any examples of Dutch names with more than one prefix, and >neither does Chicago. Chicago also shows a Dutch name with "Van" >capitalized, which is how I've usually seen it. Given the other typos I've >found, it's possible that the typesetter goofed on the capitalization. >Would that make any difference in which element to use in indexing? ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:21:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Dutch name If it helps, according to my phone book some people that I know named van der Linde are listed under the V's. They are Dutch and do not capitalize the "van." -- Sharon W. > -----Original Message----- > From: John and Kara Pekar [SMTP:jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 1:24 PM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Dutch name > > I need a little help with a Dutch (possibly German?) name: Willemien van > de Zand. I'm not sure under which element to index this. I suspect it > should be "Zand, Willemien van de." That would accord with Mulvany, but > she doesn't show any examples of Dutch names with more than one prefix, > and > neither does Chicago. Chicago also shows a Dutch name with "Van" > capitalized, which is how I've usually seen it. Given the other typos > I've > found, it's possible that the typesetter goofed on the capitalization. > Would that make any difference in which element to use in indexing? > > Thanks, > > Kara Pekar > Wordsmith Indexing Services > jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:45:18 -0300 Reply-To: Noeline Bridge Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: Dutch name MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The name Willemien van de Zand looks 100% Dutch! The lower-cased "van de" is correct. Also, your example: the name would be entered "Zand, Willemien van de." You are used to seeing Van with a capital letter because that's how names with partitives end up when their bearers are born in lands outside Europe, or move there, or something. Often, too, where the bearers were born and when, and where they live changes the element under which the name will be entered; when the partitives become capitalized, entry begins with them. It's a complicated business. Mulvany deals with Dutch names on p. 165-66, Wellisch on p. 288-89, and the Chicago Manual of Style in 7.10. The first two give several examples. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:09:43 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Diepeveen Subject: Re: Dutch name In-Reply-To: <199908121731.NAA16137@lycanthrope.crosslink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As has been noted, it is definitely a Dutch name. Under Dutch filing rules the name would be filed as: Zand, Willemien van de. However, under Anglo-saxon filing rules it would be filed as: Van de Zand, Willemien. I work in both languages and I would suggest that if the book you are indexing is meant for an English speaking audience to file under 'Van' because that is where people expect to find it. My husband's name is Van Leeuwen and we live in the UK, in the UK phonebook his name is filed under 'V'. This would definitely not happen in a Dutch phonebook. So, if your audience is mainly Dutch, then it would be better to file the name under 'Zand', because readers would expect to find it there. The 'v' from van is capitalised (Dutch rules again) when the name appears without a first name. Thus: Boudewijn van Leeuwen or mr Van Leeuwen. Hope this helps, Caroline Diepeveen > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-index-l@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > [mailto:owner-index-l@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of John and Kara > Pekar > Sent: 12 August 1999 18:24 > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Dutch name > > > > I need a little help with a Dutch (possibly German?) name: Willemien van > de Zand. I'm not sure under which element to index this. I suspect it > should be "Zand, Willemien van de." That would accord with Mulvany, but > she doesn't show any examples of Dutch names with more than one > prefix, and > neither does Chicago. Chicago also shows a Dutch name with "Van" > capitalized, which is how I've usually seen it. Given the other > typos I've > found, it's possible that the typesetter goofed on the capitalization. > Would that make any difference in which element to use in indexing? > > Thanks, > > Kara Pekar > Wordsmith Indexing Services > jkpekar@crosslink.net > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:20:01 +1200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: ship names Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is too late for Kara Pekar, but perhaps it's of general interest. In the index of volume 2 of Ian McGibbon's New Zealand and the Korean War (OUP, 1996), the names of naval ships are followed by whichever is appropriate of HMS, USS, HMNZS, HMAS, HMCS, or even RFA ("Royal Fleet Auxiliary", i.e. a supply ship) or FS (French navy ship). It seems to me these designations are helpful. With one exception, the only ship names without any designations after them are described as "troop ships" or "transports" or "dock landing ships" or "tankers" or the like, and even some of the troop ships have "ss" (l.c.) after them. Now which of the following italicised headwords do you think are ships and which newspapers, newsletters, magazines and the like? Oddly, the list also includes a Dutch destroyer (what initials, if any, are normally used for Dutch navy ships?): Auckland Weekly Daichenko Devonshire Fort Marion Ganges H. A. Bass Iddywah Kahiti Kayforce Times Kiwi Kables Maxwell Brander New Australia New Zealand Free Lance Ormonde Piet Hein Stanvac Karachi Taiping Taiyuan Truth Wahine Wanganella Wantuck HINT: 8 of these 22 names are publications. Simon Cauchi, Hamilton, New Zealand ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:52:04 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Grady Subject: Re: index specifications - thanks for the help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to help me out with the index specifications. Julie Grady ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:18:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Metzger, Lucinda" Subject: Interesting article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just notified of an indexing article on the Mining Company/About.com website. Thought others would be interested as well. "The Index as Marketing Tool Lillian Rodberg, a professional indexer, has provided this week's article: "The Index as Marketing Tool". It describes how a good index can really 'sell' a book and gives away some of her trade secrets." (http://techwriting.about.com/library/weekly/aa081299.htm) Cindy cmetzger@dukane.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:01:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Interesting article In-Reply-To: <199908122121.RAA20044@bingnet2.cc.binghamton.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I was just notified of an indexing article on the Mining > Company/About.com website. Thought others would be interested as well. > > "The Index as Marketing Tool > Lillian Rodberg, a professional indexer, has provided this week's > article: "The Index as Marketing Tool". It describes how a good index > can really 'sell' a book and gives away some of her trade secrets." > (http://techwriting.about.com/library/weekly/aa081299.htm) I went there, but the text of the article is gibberish. I'm using IE5. It looks like every character in each line is displayed in position one of the line. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:17:37 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: tweaking a resume, indexing and librarian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I'm hoping for some advice from some of you librarians and ex-librarians. I have been offered the potential opportunity of a part-time position at a local school library. It's a good position and I'd like to follow up on it. They want a resume and I'd like to tweak it so it looks good for library jobs. I came to indexing through publishing, so I've been an editor and an indexer for many years now. Any suggestions on what indexing skills I should emphasize would be greatly appreciated. I'm already volunteering as we put the library together, but just my publishing background is helping them with that. Please respond to me privately. Thanks, Leslie Frank Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:23:16 -0300 Reply-To: Noeline Bridge Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Re: ship names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm glad Simon continued this subject. It bothered me a lot that there seemed to be some consensus that HMS, USS, SS, etc. weren't needed, just the names of the ships. I would have replied earlier, but my e-mail was down during the crucial period. In a book where the index would be almost all ships' names, and all those ships belonged to the one navy or were the one type, you would need only the names. In any other circumstances, you would need the designations to identify the ships properly. Someone mentioned that you wouldn't say "SS Titanic," just "Titanic." Yes, provided it is clear from the context that the ship itself (as distinct from the movie, say) is intended, and that the name, when seen in an index full of other topics, is immediately obvious as meaning the ship. Simon's example illustrates this perfectly. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca 295 Highfield Street Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:31:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Posada Subject: Re: Interesting article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Looked fine to me, same browser. (http://techwriting.about.com/library/weekly/aa081299.htm) > > I went there, but the text of the article is > gibberish. I'm using IE5. It > looks like every character in each line is displayed > in position one of the > line. > === John Posada, Merck Research Laboratories Sr Technical Writer, WinHelp and html (work) john_posada@merck.com (pers) jposada01@yahoo.com 732-594-0873 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:11:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Dutch name -- thank you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to those who responded to my query re: Dutch names. Obviously, I'm going to have to get myself a copy of AACR2 to add to my reference collection! Incidentally, the reason I'm firing off so many apparently unrelated questions is that I have five indexes in house right now... I'm a little frantic, as you can guess! Fortunately, four are relatively short and simple books, but they have about half the space allotted that they need to have, yet the publisher wants to make sure all the important stuff is in there, so I have a lot of squeezing to do. The other book is longer but glory be, I'm almost done with it! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:13:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: susanhernandez@JUNO.COM Subject: Re: ship names On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:23:16 -0300 Noeline Bridge writes: >I'm glad Simon continued this subject. It bothered me a lot that there >seemed to be some consensus that HMS, USS, SS, etc. weren't needed, >just the >names of the ships > >In a book where the index would be almost all ships' names, and all >those >ships belonged to the one navy or were the one type, you would need >only the >names. In any other circumstances, you would need the designations to >identify the ships properly. > Well, "them's fight 'in words"! I think this comes down to what you are using as the definitive reference. If none of the recognized "indexing gurus" have anything to say about it, I think the next step is to rely on someone or some organization that deals daily with the issue. If someone who worked daily with a shipping company can't convince you, how about the Naval Institute Press? I looked at four books published by this press, and all gave the name of the ship without a USS or HMS or whatever. Some added the type or military designation (ie. CVC-19) of the ship in parens. These were books that discussed ships from all nationalities. As far as the name of the ship being lost amid other italicized topics in the index, this is the same issue as indexing a book that discussed novels, plays, movies and magazines throughout. Would you really need to put (book), (magazine), (movie), etc next to each one? If two titles had the name, yes you should (just as *Titanic* (ship) and *Titanic* (movie) could occupy the same index), but generally, you wouldn't. And if you have two ships with the same name, they would be distinguished first by the military designation. If they are of different nationalities, but the same name, I would put the country in parens, not HMS or USS (or whatever!) If you really want the reader to be able to quickly see that an italicized word is a magazine and not a ship, you can gather all the magazine titles under a heading of Magazines. - Susan *************************************** Susan Danzi Hernandez BookEnd Indexing susanhernandez@juno.com (316) 789-0576 (Kansas) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:30:32 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tzolelet@AOL.COM Subject: Re: tweaking a resume, indexing and librarian MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a school librarian who used to do indexing and abstracting. I recently persuaded my assistnat principal to pay for my attendance at an indexing seminar by explaining to her that the more I know about the production of indexes, the better I can teach the use of them. Also, depending upon the state of automation in the library, your indexing skills should be useful in modifying MAR C records (don't stone me - it does happen) and in developing bibliographies useful to the school community. Best of luck- Anne Dykstra tzolelet@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:38:02 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chantal Hamill Subject: Re: Foreign language indexing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Janet, I do some French indexing (in the UK) for an international law publisher (Dutch in origin) which publishes material on international law, generally in English, but occasionally in French, and for the Canadian stuff I have been doing recently, in both French and English - in which case 2 indexes are produced, one for the English material, and one for the French! I do this because I am listed as a law specialist in INDEXERS AVAILABLE and I am a native French speaker. It is quite fun, actually, but my keyboard is not set up for the variety of French accents. Otherwise, since I am bilingual, it is a doddle. Chantal Hamill Linlithgow Scotland. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 6:26 AM Subject: Foreign language indexing > I'm interested to know who out there is working in foreign languages, > preparing indexes on non-English material in the foreign language. > > I occasionally work in Spanish, and have done some medical indexing in > Spanish. I don't know of many others who work in Spanish, nor, for that > matter, am I aware of any other foreign language indexers. It's a corner of > our profession that is unknown, by and large. I'd love to know who's working > in what languages. > > Answer on-list or off-list, as you wish. > Thanks in advance! > > Janet Perlman > SOUTHWEST INDEXING > http://www.marisol.com/southwestindexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:04:09 +0200 Reply-To: Louise Ferguson Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Louise Ferguson Subject: foolish people MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011C_01BEE594.B70DAD80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011C_01BEE594.B70DAD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some of you may remember I put some feelers out back in May about = indexers for a specialist (ecology) 10-vol encyclopaedia which is = currently being translated into English. Many people wrote both on and off-list, and trying to reply to everyone = would be more than I could manage, so here's the update for everyone who = got in touch: I was brought in to advise on English indexing of the _Biosfera_ = (Biosphere) project, but I'm sorry to report that these foolish people = (the publishers and the local consultants advising them) have finally = decided NOT to use an English indexer or indexers. I have done = everything within my power to persuade them - getting support from the = British professor overseeing the English version, providing them with = texts supporting my position from everyone from the British Society of = Indexers to postings to Index-L and messages sent by indexers, writing a = 15-page report (arguments in support, indexer availability), attending a = meeting at their offices, and so on. In all this I've also been backed = up by the main translator, who has indicated to them that he has no = intention of providing some botched translated index. I even tried to = use the 'learning experience' argument: the publisher could use this as = an opportunity to get au fait with indexing software and English = indexing practice - they have never published in English before - and so = on. All to no avail. The consultants (Estudi Ramon Folch), who are working for the Spanish = publisher (Enciclopedia Catalana) have told me that they have decided on = some (unspecified) 'compromise' solution, based on the existing Catalan = indexes. They are environmental consultants, have little experience of = publishing, less of indexing, and no experience of publishing in English = or in English-speaking countries. As they have chosen not to involve any = English-language indexer in the project, I'm mystified as to what this = compromise solution can be. The construction of this 'compromise' index = has been pushed back to next year. The current index suffers from many problems (early volume references = are replete with errors including many, many page reference errors, few = scientific concepts have been indexed, but many irrelevant proper names = have been, such as public holidays (!) or the names of buildings, many = index entries are badly worded/divided, there are long lists of = irrelevant pages references, and the poverty of Catalan terminology = shines through, and so on). Add to this the problems inherent in = 'translating' an index... They seem afraid to give work to anyone more than 50 km from their = offices, loathe to drop the Catalan index as the 'key' to the English = one, and unable to grasp that the work will be better and completed = faster if they opt for the obvious solution: hiring an English-language = indexer to put together an English index. Undercurrents: they don't want = money to go into the hands of anyone not in Spain and anyone not Catalan = (a very common protectionist stance here); they don't trust anyone = (again, a very common stance here), so if you're not round the corner = you won't get the work. They seem so naive - they originally planned to translate the index = letter by letter (A to A etc., as if a translated word started with the = same letter as the original!); they asked me why the Society of Indexers = didn't have offices in Spain (ha!), and how many English-language = ecology indexers there were working in Spain (none to my knowledge, = there are only two SI members in Spain) and so on and so forth. The project is called _Biosfera_ (Biosphere), is supported by UNESCO, = contains texts from academics and specialists around the globe, and is = to be published in the US by Gale. The Enciclopedia Catalana contract = with Gale includes provision of full indexes in English. God help them! Despairingly Louise Ferguson lferguson@mx3.redestb.es ------=_NextPart_000_011C_01BEE594.B70DAD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some of you may remember I put some = feelers out=20 back in May about indexers for a specialist (ecology) 10-vol = encyclopaedia which=20 is currently being translated into English.
 
Many people wrote both on and = off-list, and=20 trying to reply to everyone would be more than I could manage, so here's = the=20 update for everyone who got in touch:
 
I was brought in to advise on = English indexing=20 of the _Biosfera_ (Biosphere) project, but I'm=20 sorry to report that these foolish people (the publishers and the local=20 consultants advising them) have finally decided NOT to use an English = indexer or=20 indexers. I have done everything within my power to persuade them - = getting=20 support from the British professor overseeing the English version, = providing=20 them with texts supporting my position from everyone from the British = Society of Indexers to postings to Index-L and = messages=20 sent by indexers, writing a 15-page report (arguments in support, = indexer=20 availability), attending a meeting at their offices, and so on. In all = this I've=20 also been backed up by the main translator, who has indicated to them = that he=20 has no intention of providing some botched translated index. I even = tried to use=20 the 'learning experience' argument: the publisher could use this as an=20 opportunity to get au fait with indexing software and English indexing = practice=20 - they have never published in English before - and so on. All to no=20 avail.
 
The consultants (Estudi Ramon = Folch), who are=20 working for the Spanish publisher (Enciclopedia Catalana) have told me = that they=20 have decided on some (unspecified) 'compromise' solution, based on the = existing=20 Catalan indexes. They are environmental consultants, have little = experience of=20 publishing, less of indexing, and no experience of publishing in English = or in=20 English-speaking countries. As they have chosen not to involve any=20 English-language indexer in the project, I'm mystified as to what this=20 compromise solution can be. The construction of this 'compromise' index = has been=20 pushed back to next year.
 
The current index suffers from many = problems=20 (early volume references are replete with errors including many, many = page=20 reference errors, few scientific concepts have been indexed, but many = irrelevant=20 proper names have been, such as public holidays (!) or the names of = buildings,=20 many index entries are badly worded/divided, there are long lists of = irrelevant=20 pages references, and the poverty of Catalan terminology shines through, = and so=20 on). Add to this the problems inherent in 'translating' an = index...
 
They seem afraid to give work to anyone more than 50 = km from=20 their offices, loathe to drop the Catalan index as the 'key' to the = English one,=20 and unable to grasp that the work will be better and completed faster if = they=20 opt for the obvious solution: hiring an English-language indexer to put = together=20 an English index. Undercurrents: they don't want money to go into the = hands of=20 anyone not in Spain and anyone not Catalan (a very common protectionist = stance=20 here); they don't trust anyone (again, a very common stance here), so if = you're=20 not round the corner you won't get the work.
 
They seem so naive - they originally = planned to=20 translate the index letter by letter (A to A etc., as if a translated = word=20 started with the same letter as the original!); they asked me why the = Society of=20 Indexers didn't have offices in Spain (ha!), and how many = English-language=20 ecology indexers there were working in Spain (none to my knowledge, = there are=20 only two SI members in Spain) and so on and so forth.
 
The project is called _Biosfera_ = (Biosphere), is=20 supported by UNESCO, contains texts from academics and specialists = around the=20 globe, and is to be published in the US by Gale. The Enciclopedia = Catalana=20 contract with Gale includes provision of full indexes in English. God = help=20 them!
 
Despairingly
 
Louise Ferguson
lferguson@mx3.redestb.es
 
------=_NextPart_000_011C_01BEE594.B70DAD80-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:56:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: rates and professionalism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diane in Kazoo calmly responded to my rant, "Apparently more than one client, considering previous discussions of low pay, appreciate our work without paying us what we're worth. I don't disagree about high expectations bringing out the best in others, tho sometimes I've been disappointed. Better to err on the positive side. Realistically, if appreciation for work well done is to come from somewhere, it can come from within myself when it doesn't come from elsewhere. I do continue to have high expectations about my own performance, but my self-worth is not going to hinge on unappreciative clients or anyone else." While I totally agree that my (personal) self-worth does not hinge on unappreciative clients or anyone else, I do believe that in the business world, appreciation = compensation = payment. And yes, it does also hinge on the "perceived value," as Homer Ellison mentioned (all the more reason for client/public education, in my opinion, frankly!). My response has been that of a businesswoman. Indexing is my profession and my business. Appreciation for my work is *directly* related to the compensation I receive from my clients. Granted, some of this compensation may not be immediate, some payment may be down in the road, or may also include referrals, stock options, extra copies of the publication, positive reviews, good publicity and exposure, etc., but compensation that matches the quality of my work I *do* expect lest my business not thrive. In other words, I expect appreciation and recognition for my work. As business people, we cannot expect less. And I won't say any more for now, I promise! ;-) happy indexing, Pilar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- L. Pilar Wyman * Wyman Indexing PilarW@aol.com Great Indexes for Great Books ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:23:27 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Interesting article I'm using IE4 and it look fine. Must be an IE5 thing. > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Evans [SMTP:infodex@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:02 PM > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > Subject: Re: Interesting article > > > I was just notified of an indexing article on the Mining > > Company/About.com website. Thought others would be interested as well. > > > > "The Index as Marketing Tool > > Lillian Rodberg, a professional indexer, has provided this week's > > article: "The Index as Marketing Tool". It describes how a good index > > can really 'sell' a book and gives away some of her trade secrets." > > (http://techwriting.about.com/library/weekly/aa081299.htm) > > I went there, but the text of the article is gibberish. I'm using IE5. > It > looks like every character in each line is displayed in position one of > the > line. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:58:43 -0400 Reply-To: "David K. Ream" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Organization: Leverage Technologies, Inc. Subject: Re: Interesting article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm using IE5 and it looks fine to me too. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wright, Sharon F. To: Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Interesting article > I'm using IE4 and it look fine. Must be an IE5 thing. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard Evans [SMTP:infodex@MINDSPRING.COM] > > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 6:02 PM > > To: INDEX-L@LISTSERV.BINGHAMTON.EDU > > Subject: Re: Interesting article > > > > > I was just notified of an indexing article on the Mining > > > Company/About.com website. Thought others would be interested as well. > > > > > > "The Index as Marketing Tool > > > Lillian Rodberg, a professional indexer, has provided this week's > > > article: "The Index as Marketing Tool". It describes how a good index > > > can really 'sell' a book and gives away some of her trade secrets." > > > (http://techwriting.about.com/library/weekly/aa081299.htm) > > > > I went there, but the text of the article is gibberish. I'm using IE5. > > It > > looks like every character in each line is displayed in position one of > > the > > line. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:04:24 -0700 Reply-To: Julie Shawvan Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Shawvan Subject: Name index variant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE56A.D6AFEBA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE56A.D6AFEBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am working on a multiauthor text/reference in an allied health field = and have been asked to supply both subject and author indexes. I rarely = do author indexes because most of the scientific and medical books that = I index have numbered citations, rather than author-date citations. The author index to the previous edition has what looks like a slightly = unusual style to me. In addition to indexing the citations, the indexer = has also indexed the end-of-chapter reference lists, with those page = references in parentheses. A real example (with the name changed) is: = Bell, A. G., 106, (134), 183, 184, 203, (206), 225, (232). There is a = headnote explaining this. I am wondering how common this style is and what other indexers think of = it. I do intend to follow it and it seems to me that it might be useful. Julie Shawvan ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE56A.D6AFEBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am working on a multiauthor = text/reference in=20 an allied health field and have been asked to supply both subject and = author=20 indexes. I rarely do author indexes because most of the scientific and = medical=20 books that I index have numbered citations, rather than author-date=20 citations.
 
The author index to the previous = edition has=20 what looks like a slightly unusual style to me. In addition to indexing = the=20 citations, the indexer has also indexed the end-of-chapter reference = lists, with=20 those page references in parentheses. A real example (with the name = changed) is:=20 Bell, A. G., 106, (134), 183, 184, 203, (206), 225, (232). There is a = headnote=20 explaining this.
 
I am wondering how common this style = is and what=20 other indexers think of it. I do intend to follow it and it seems to me = that it=20 might be useful.
 
Julie = Shawvan
------=_NextPart_000_003E_01BEE56A.D6AFEBA0-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:27:56 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexlady@AOL.COM Subject: FWD: Periodical indexing/OCR Software Comments: cc: JIHS@telecom.net.et MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Collective Wisdom! I am forwarding this information request from Enchalew to Index-L. If you can help, please respond directly to Enchalew. Many thanks! Dawn Spencer ================================ Email #1 I am a graduate student in information science at the Addis Ababa University, Ethiopia. I am conducting a survey on how indexing organizations capture information when indexing journals, i.e., whether they scan the table of contents of printed journals and then apply an OCR software to create a bibliographic element or they manually key-in the bibliographic elements of each contribution in a journal. Would you please let me know which method (or any other method, if any) your indexing organization uses in capturing data? If you don't use scanning and OCR software, would you please let me know the reasons why scanning is impractical in your indexing business? ================================ Email #2 Simple identification of the bibliographic elements of an article from the table of contents of a journal issue (journal title, volume number, issue number, year of publication, article title, author(s), page location) that needs no expertise of indexing, i.e., descriptive part of indexing In order to avoid manual data entry of these bibliographic elements for the descriptive part of indexing, I felt it would be possible to scan the contents page of journal issues and apply an OCR software. By doing so, we can get a free machine-readable form of the issues content page. After this, one can write a post-OCR processing program that can detect each bibliographic element to form a record of each contribution in the contents page; then import the resulting records into a database management software (DBMS) or any other software that suits indexing. This, if well done, will avoid the draw back of manual data entry (typographic errors, time and cost). I know (at least read articles on) the availability of software for Machine-Aided Indexing (MAI) that help to determine subject key words either from the whole article or by going through the abstract. Now, I wanted to write a program that can automate the second (the descriptive) part of the indexing process that will avoid manual data entry, i.e., that uses a scanner and a commercial OCR software, which I will write the post-OCR processing program to form a bibliographic record of article citations just from the free text data obtained from the table of contents page of journal issues using a scanner and an OCR software. If you know any indexing firm that handles the descriptive part of indexing process with a scanner and an OCR software without any intervention of manual data entry, please let me know, as it will help me understand on how they come up with such a product. If my work will be successful, I wanted to automate the development of a current contents database from the contents page of printed journals without any human intervention (at least in the sense that there will be no manual data entry, though some editing will be there to correct the text resulting from an OCR software). Thank you, Enchalew ============================================== JIMMA INSTITUTE OF HEALTH SCIENCES P.O.BOX : 378 JIMMA, ETHIOPIA FAX : 251-07-111450 E-MAIL : JIHS@telecom.net.et http://www.telecom.net.et/~junv.edu/ ============================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:01:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Landeen - Indextrous Subject: Office Equipment In a recent thread about office equipment Kara asked if anyone had equipment they liked. I do. I just bought the new HP OfficeJet R80xi, (which I waited a year for, and I'm not known as patient). But I wanted one piece of equipment with a small footprint that I could copy, copy in color, copy reduce, copy enlarge, fax, scan, and scan in color, plus (big drum roll) the lid lifts so that it is a flat face scanner, fax and copier. The copies are excellent, it's quite quiet and it uses the special ring option from the phone company that eliminates that extra line. I bought it at Costco, brought it home and had it running in twenty minutes. If you're looking for something new I can recommend this piece of equipment. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:51:39 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Office Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to second those who recommend standalone fax machines. Mine is a simple dual-function machine (fax/copier), Panasonic KX-FP250. We paid only $279 about a year ago, and it is much cheaper now. I also have a flatbed scanner (Mustek 800/IISP) that I am happy with. I have been leary of machines with too many functions, but apparently they work well. I like having the fax on all the time. So far in my limited indexing experience, I found a fax machine to be invaluable. My printer is a Canon BJC-7004 Photo, which is great for making brochures and business cards in color. I previously mentioned the modular office furniture we bought from OfficeMax. We have desks, hutches, and rollaway filing cabinets that make our home office a pleasure. My husband and I have corner computer stations. I have my own phone line as well. I think this is well worth the expense. Jean Middleton IndexEmpire Indexing Services http://www.IndexEmpire.Com IndexPro@IndexEmpire.Com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:17:47 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: re Foreign language indexing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I occasionally index in Spanish. Much of my earlier indexing in Spanish (from the 1970's) was of unpublished colonial archival manuscripts (abstracting and indexing). In recent years I've done some back of the book indices in Spanish but not much. Just not much interest out there for that service. I get many more calls for transcription and translation of 16th/18th century Spanish text. Two recent book manuscripts of mine (1998. "The Last Days of British Saint Augustine: A Spanish Census for an English Colony." Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore Maryland. AND "Lost Shores and Forgotten Peoples: The Maya of the South East Lowlands of Guatemala," submitted for publication to Duke University Press) and one current project ("The Poqom Dictionary of Friar Francisco Viana, O.P." transcription and editing in progress) involved this sort of work. Also do this type of work in connection with shipwreck research... LH Feldman Indexer-Researcher-Writer Lawrenc846@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:17:41 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ship names MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ship names I'm also glad that Simon continued this subject. Because I would like to offer an example where HMS, USS, SS, etc. were not relevant but that there is another different category which is very relevant. The examples are from the Indice Analitico de la Guia del Archivo Historico de Hacienda (Esperanza Rodriguez de Lebrija, 1975) but the principle would be also applicable in English texts. This work classifies by --- NAVIOS "Anfitrite". 1801, 7-2. "Argonauta". 1802, 502, 41-42 "Cazador". 1784, 536-2 (there are many other entries under NAVIOS) where the Name of the ship is followed by the date of the document which in turn is followed by the manuscript bundle number and then by the file number(s). Other categories include: FRAGATAS, GALEON, CORBETAS, etc. In other words this is an single volume index for a specific Mexican archive where ship references are sorted by type of ship, then by name of ship, etc. An English text back of the book index equivalent might be by sorting by BATTLESHIPS, DESTROYERS, CRUISERS, etc. This would be another way to handle ship names, and for certain purposes a very useful way. LH Feldman Lawrenc846@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:57:36 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MXbjr@AOL.COM Subject: rush job op Comments: cc: rene@yarnell.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rene (pronounced Renny) Yarnell with 290 pp THE NEW ENTREPRENEURS needing a completed index--check out details about the book on her Web site: Click here: Rene Reid Yarnell She has a list of all the words and phrases that she wants in the index. Now she needs someone who can work with Pagemaker 6.5 to complete the index (embedded)...in a few days... She can be reached at rene@yarnell.com, or by cell at 775-772-1210 or 775-830-2259 or at home Saturday night at 775-825-9196. Hope someone out there can help! Barbara Roos ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 15:36:54 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: michelle wiseman Subject: Help with Cindex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello All! I am currently taking the USDA course, and have just received my copy of Cindex. I thought that I would get used to the software while taking the course so I would already be that much more familiar with it when I do get a client. Anyway, while experimenting with the program today, I have run into a problem I hope someone out there can help me with. I realize this is probably a pretty easy question, but I am a little intimidated by this program (I've only had it a few hours). After I have created a new entry, the program displays the entry in the following manner: Page references deleting....2 The problem is I cannot get rid of the dots before the reference locator! I have tried to set the punction before reference locator as a comma, but it does not seem to do anything. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Sincerely, Michelle Wiseman _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 19:20:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Help with Cindex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It looks like you have it in draft format rather than formatted view. Try changing the setting to formatted view. Cynthia At 03:36 PM 8/14/99 PDT, michelle wiseman wrote: After I have created a new entry, >the program displays the entry in the following manner: > >Page references > deleting....2 > >The problem is I cannot get rid of the dots before the reference locator! I >have tried to set the punction before reference locator as a comma, but it >does not seem to do anything. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services Specialities: Food History, Nutrition, Cookbooks, Gastronomy cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ Long before institutionalized religions came along--and temples and churches--there was an unquestioned recognition that what goes on in a kitchen is holy. Cooking involves an enormously rich coming together of the fruits of the earth with the inventive genius of the human being. ---Laurel Robertson--- ****************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:26:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Help with Cindex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" On 8/14/1999 5:36 PM michelle wiseman wrote (in part): >Page references > deleting....2 > >The problem is I cannot get rid of the dots before the reference locator! I >have tried to set the punction before reference locator as a comma, but it >does not seem to do anything. I suspect you are in the default view, which is Draft Format. Pull down the View menu and click on Full Format. hth, Craig Brown The Last Word Indexing Services (314) 352-9094 lastword@i1.net www.i1.net/~lastword