Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9904A" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:56:28 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Patton Subject: reply to packager contract Thanks Index-L'ers. Your responses confirmed my hunch about that contract. I enjoyed writing a letter to reject the whole contract (they had a clause that disallowed striking/amending any *individual* clauses). The one job I had done for them last year was just fine, but even then they weren't my favorite people to work with. There's other work... and it's coming this week. Deborah ============================== Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer Baltimore, MD, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:15:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: MEDICAL INDEXING CONFERENCE Dear Fellow Medical Indexers, I am very interested in the May 8, New York Chapter all-day conference, which will have "Medical Indexing" presented by Frances Lennie, Maria Coughlin and Alexandra Nickerson. Is anyone from the Virginia/DC/Maryland area going and wishes to share a ride and room? It is in N.Y. City. Please respond off-list. Happy Easter & Passover to all! Ardith Ayotte, RT ABBA Index Services Central Virginia (near Fredericksburg) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:19:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen K Passey Subject: Aside Just thought this would be fun to pass on -- a writer friend of mine (whose career is definitely on the ascendant), is making the heroine of her latest romance a freelance indexer who specializes in cookbooks (thanks in part to Keywords and some of the passed-on "collective wisdom"; your influence is spreading). At least this way, tens of thousands of readers will now know what an indexer is! ; - ) Helen (recovering from an all-nighter) helenpassey@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:49:46 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Large publisher, low rates In-Reply-To: I think Sonsie's point about the 'lightness' of the indexing is crucial. In a way a per page rate can turn into any per hour rate you like, as you, the indexer, control the amount of work you put into an index. The cheapest index I have done was for about Aus$200 for a school text book (about 200 pages I think). I told the editor that for that money I could only index section headings - not the detailed content of the work. I put this in writing and did the index - not a bad one for the situation, I think - and ended up with a bit more than my normal hourly rate (though this was not intended). So depending on the book and the job satisfaction you require, and whether your name is on it, and whatever else matters, most things can be negotiable in indexing. What is important to me is that I make it quite clear at the beginning what I can do in a given situation. Given that I (and many other indexers) tend to overindex, it is sometimes a challenge to approach a work differently. Glenda. > Technical and scientific indexing is generally quite dense. How can you > possibly "make it up in volume" in that situation? I haven't worked for > $1.75 a page in at least 15 years, maybe longer. It's about half what I > currently earn. I would pass on these people, unless you can be > certain that > the indexing is so "light" that you really can make it up in volume (very > unlikely), and you are absolutely desperate for either money or > experience. > > =Sonsie= > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:42:54 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: gerunds In-Reply-To: The topic of gerunds came up about a month ago when I asked a question about an online help project I am working on. We have to index topics such as "Create estimate", "Copy a cover note", and "Amend address details". The authors wanted to use the shorter verb form in topic titles as it is more immediate and it is what they think users are thinking "eg I want to create an estimate". It is also the form used in the computer screens and dialogs that the help is referring to. Because I believe in consistency, and because I want authors to be able to index as directly as possible from the topic titles, we have decided to use the shorter form when indexing procedures (ie create not creating). This works OK as far as I can tell, except for a few awkward terms such as "fax documents" (which means "faxing documents" but reads like a noun). My consolation here is that people are coming to the index to find out HOW to fax documents, not to learn about fax documents, so are not likely to be confused. We use gerunds for terms not from procedures, eg water-skiing. I find it is quite difficult to maintain consistency with both the online help and the material that it is offering help for, along with consistency within the index. Sometimes the best solution for the index is not easily applied when making rules for a variety of indexers. Another inconsistency is the use of singular forms (with and without articles) in topic titles, but plurals in the index. I think this is something we jsut have to live with. Glenda. > > I'm not a technical indexer, but as far as I know the general > rule for form of > index main headings is that they must be ^noun phrases^--which includes > gerunds. (In other words, a gerund is the form of a verb that is really a > noun, so it's not the kind of verb that doesn't work.) Gerunds > are often used > in social science/humanities indexes, as well as (presumably) in technical > indexes. > > Do Mi Stauber > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:42:49 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money In-Reply-To: Field, Susan (S.) wrote: > Has anyone chosen to incorporate their business, rather than simply file a > Schedule C with their 1040(in the United States)? If yes, why? I am > grappling with this decision myself. We incorporated in 1995 because we were about to take on a long-term job for a semi-Government organisation which required us to sign a contract with an indemnity clause - basically saying that we were fully responsible for any costs or charges incurred as a result of our indexing, despite the fact that they were supposed to be overseeing it. We acted on legal advice that if our company was sued for a million dollars it probably wouldn't result in the loss of our house, etc. In the event the job evaporated after a year and the costs and paperwork associated with setting up and maintaining the company made it not worth the trouble of keeping up. Most of the costs, incidentally, seemed to have little bearing on the amount of work or service we were supposed to be paying for - legal fees, company setup fees which went to three anonymous people who bought shelf companies by the hundred, workers' compensation and superannuation which were mandatory even though we were the only employees... we felt that the company was providing a whole flock of parasites with a sinecure and doing very little for us. We wound it up after a couple of years and I was glad to see the back of it. If the same thing happened again I would have the contract rewritten or refuse the job. I would rather spend my time making money for myself than doing the paperwork to allow other people to make money from me. Jon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:28:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ardith B. Ayotte, RT" Subject: FIRST NEW YORK CHAPTER ANNUAL ALL-DAY CONFERENCE, SAT, MAY 8 If, like me, you cannot attend the Indiana ASI Conference, perhaps this one-day conf. would be helpful. The registration deadline is April 15 postmarked for the $65 member rate. Non members are $75. A Friday overnight in New York will be necessary to make the 8:15AM Sat. opening of this conference. The subjects are Medical Indexing, Periodical Indexing, Networking, The Changing Faces of the Publishing Industry, Pageless Indexing, plus the networking with Eastern indexers of the Big Apple! If anyone wishes to share the travel, please let me know off-line no later than April 5th so our indexing workflow can also be considered. If more information is needed, Janet Mazefsky is at jmazefsky@aol.com or Kevin Broccoli at broccoli@bim.net. Ardith Ayotte ABBA Index Services Fredericksburg/Richmond Area, Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:56:02 +0000 Reply-To: connolly@neca.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dan Connolly Organization: Word For Word Indexing and Editing Services Subject: Guarantee I've recently received an inquiry from a publisher in response to my marketing materials and was wondering if anyone had handled a similar question. Along with asking about page rates, availability, and index delivery, they ask, "Do you guarantee your work? (Not trying to put you on the spot--just wondering.)" Has anyone handled a similar question? Does anyone know to what, exactly, they are referring? This is a publisher of boating and outdoor sports material, in case you're wondering. I can speak to confidentiality, thoroughness, meeting deadlines, and other related matters, but am not sure what else I would be "guaranteeing." I guarantee it will be an index. Thoughts? Dan -- ============================= Daniel A. Connolly mailto:connolly@neca.com Word For Word Indexing Services http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com Woodstock, CT, USA ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:48:54 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: AusSI website index recreated with HTML Indexer Hi All, I thought I would let you know that the AusSI website index has been redone and updated using HTML Indexer (http://www.html-indexer.com/). It is accessible through: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi. The index looks pretty much the same as it would have if it had been created any other way. The main differences are the way of working and of updating the index. HTML Indexer inserts index entries in comment tags within the web pages being indexed. This makes updating relatively easy as the index terms can be taken from the webpages whenever the index has to be updated. If you are interested you can look at the source files and see the embedded indexing. This metadata is also useful if the pages are being searched by an internal or external search engine. I haven't kept records of how long it all took, but I will next time round, as it is handy to have a rough idea when quoting for jobs etc. The program saves time because you don't have to type the URLs. It is also good for editing as you can sort the index entries alphabetically and by URL. HTML Indexer does not allow you to add See also references in a standard way, although the FAQ does give a method for doing it. I just added them to the main webpage about the topic being referred to. (E.g. I put the reference "metadata, see also web indexing" at the main webpage about web indexing. I don't want them to click on it, but if they do they will be taken to a useful spot). This is the sort of workaround I discovered when doing WinHelp style indexing. I think it works OK here, but I am planning to change to proper references in the future. Also, while HTML Indexer automatically updates the index and title, it doesn't deal with text such as introductions. To use these you will have to cut-and-paste each time you update. You also have to redo the general style of the page. There is a method for doing this listed in the FAQ, but Jon (our webmaster) was able to do it quite quickly by cutting and pasting styles. I'd be interested to hear any comments about the index. Regards, Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:28:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Names as subentries OK, I'm venturing outside my usual comfortable world of computer books to index one on the political legacy of Bill Clinton. It's *really* scary out here. Where are all my neatly hierarchical headings? What happened to all the white space? Mommy!! Anyway, one practical question: when I have a proper name as a subentry, do I invert it? For instance, in discussing Dick Morris and Clinton's political strategy, I want to do something like this: Clinton, William Jefferson Dick Morris, political strategist The alternative is: Clinton, William Jefferson Morris, Dick, political strategist Neither of those strike me as correct. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:55:05 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Macrex Loading Question I've never had to do this, but I feel certain there is a way to manage it. I have a five-year-old index saved on a floppy that I want to import back into Macrex to work on it. It's in ASCII format, and I had previously made it into a .WPF file to import into WordPerfect for final editing. That's the version I have on the floppy...edited, saved as ASCII text ready to mail to an editor (on disk, not via email). How do I convert this file back into something Macrex can load and use? When I tried to change the suffix to .DAT and load it as a database file, it didn't work. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:14:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: PageMaker, Web, Quark and WordPerfect Hi all, Thanks to all of you who answered my request for contact info. A lot of people have asked whether we could expand the listings out to include a few other tools. So I guess while I am building these lists, I might as well build a few more. So, I would like to compile lists of freelance indexers who do work in PageMaker embedding, HTML/Web, Quark embedding, and WordPerfect embedding. Again, I am looking for people who have actually done projects in these tools, not learning them. Please follow my instructions exactly, so that your emailed response winds up in the right folder in my mail system - it makes it so much easier for me to compile the responses! Please send _separate_ messages to the addresses below for each tool, and please do not respond to the list.... If you do embedded indexing in PageMaker, send a message to pagem@wrightinformation.com Include whether you do mac or pc. If you do indexing for Web sites using HTML, send a message to html@wrightinformation.com If you do embedded indexing in the latest version of QuarkXpress, send a message to quark@wrightinformation.com If you do embedded indexing in WordPerfect, send a message to wperf@wrightinformation.com I'm asking for these separate messages because I will keep your message in a tool folder, and when someone asks for something specific, I will have your complete message there. If you just send one message, I won't be able to get at it as easily. It's a pain for you, I know, but it will make it easier for me to keep track. IMPORTANT: A lot of people are asking for the lists once I have them compiled. If you have problems with your information being distributed to other indexers or to the ASI office, please let me know, and I will take your name off the lists. Thanks, Jan Wright +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:46:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeanne Moody Subject: Re: indexing a revised edition The few times I've indexed a 2nd or 3rd edition of a book, it was much easier to index the entire book from scratch than to get inside the previous indexer's head. In one case, the original index wasn't very good, and I could not in good conscience perpertuate its flaws. The editors assumed that updating an old index would be easier for me (and cheaper for them) but actually didn't care how I did the job. All they really wanted was a good index at an acceptable price. It did help, however, to see the earlier editions of the books. I think I may have "plagiarized" a few cross references or clever subentry wordings that I might not have thought of otherwise. Jeanne Moody ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:05:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: handling terms How do you all handle immigration, emigration, migration. Book is about population. All three terms are everywhere throughout. Migration can of course mean either im or em, and xrefs could end up like immigration. See also emigration; migration emigration. See also immigration; migration migration. See also emigration; immigration Yucky. I'm wracking my brains trying to pull them together. Didn't we just talk about a similar xref scenario? If I pick migration and See the others to it, I could end up with a two-column or more entry. Mostly migration would cover it nicely, except the author went and put a whole chap titled Immigration, and several heading in other chapters on Immigration, so I don't know whether to pict imm or mig. Tearing my hair. It really doesn't matter in almost all contexts whether it's im or em in this book. I say we do away with im and em, and just say migrating to or from somewhere and be done with the whole issue. Who's with me?????? Thanks as always, Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:48:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kim Schroeder Subject: Defining Indexing Styles You have all been so helpful in the past, I wondered if maybe you could assist me again. My daily job is Visual Indexing, but I am teaching a University Indexing course and of course, we have spent some time on Book Indexing. I have looked through, literally dozens of sources to try and get a list and comparison of Indexing Styles( e.g. Chain, String, Facet, Permuted, etc.) It seems that everything calls the various types something different and I have not yet found a comprehensive list. Even the ASI Web-site does not seem to cover this. So far, I have the Lancaster Book (Indexing and Abstracting") and the Cleveland book as my best sources, but even these two leave a lot of ground uncovered. I want very much to better explain to my students the strengths and weaknesses or even the evolution of different types of indexes. Is anything out there, already or will I have to create it? Does anyone see how ironic it is that Indexers don't have standard names for their own work? Thank you in advance. Kim Schroeder Archive Impact www.archiveimpact.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:08 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: online help subdivisions versus inverted terms In an online help index do you have any preference for inverted terms over subdivisions. For example, under trucks I have the following entries (and others): trucks, tow trucks, ice-cream Would you keep these as inverted terms by themselves, or merge them with the other subdivisions, eg. trucks comprehensive insurance ice-cream (or ice-cream trucks) inspecting tow (or tow trucks) I'm tempted towards keeping them in the inverted form as it saves adding too many subdivisions to one term, and it keeps types of trucks sorted separately from things about trucks in general. And I also have a time-saving program which will take my entries at tow trucks and duplicate them at trucks, tow. Any opinions? Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 20:37:34 EDT Reply-To: Kjohnson24@aol.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kathy L. Johnson" Subject: Indexing Market? Dear Collective Wisdom, I'm not new to the list...I've just been lurking for several months. Are there big differences, in terms of pay rate, when comparing publishers of textbooks, or other scholarly works, versus major publishers? Is it easier to get a start with one kind of publisher or the other, if you have no prior indexing experience? Note: I've already completed the USDA course. Thanks Kathy Johnson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:25:26 +1000 Reply-To: diagonal@hermes.net.au Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon & Glenda Subject: Re: packager contracts - punt or sign?? In-Reply-To: Deborah Patton wrote: > I have other customers seeking my indexing services. And it's > time for some marketing so I'll be looking for new ones. This packager found > me, I never found them. What say you, collective wisdom? Sign? or punt? The whole idea of a contract is an agreement that should be acceptable to both signatories. If the contract is not acceptable then you have every right to: a) ask them to change it; b) change it yourself, or with a lawyer, and send them the revised version; c) tell them to take a running jump. As I understand it there is no such thing in law as a 'standard' contract; the fact that you signed a contract is taken as prima facie evidence that you have read and accept _all_ the terms. Jon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:51:49 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Word indexers In-Reply-To: <199903291834.KAA29151@dns1.mcn.org> >>I would be happy to send this on to Bonnie... This kind of information >>would be great to have indexed in the Locator, by the way. >> >>Jan This information is in fact going to be present in this year's Locator. There was a check box for embedded indexing, with separate boxes for Framemaker/Word/Quark/Other DTP apps for people to mark. --Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: handling terms In-Reply-To: <199904051542.IAA19307@dns1.mcn.org> Rachel wrote: >I say we do away with im and em, and just say migrating to or from >somewhere and be done with the whole issue. Who's with me?????? I have done this when needed. You may need to use emigration/immigration as separate terms is if specific law or procedures are discussed with respect to leaving or entering a country or area. You can still contain those specifics under the correct term, but have other movement under "migration," by doing the following sort of thing: migration laws and procedures governing. See immigration; emigration immigration [law headings] generally. See migration emigration [law headings] generally. See migration The above distinctions may be useful, but if there are only a couple page refs, "laws and procedures" could still just be a subentry at migration. You may also need to use separate emigration/immigration headings if leaving/arriving are specific issues to the book. It really depends on the content of the book, but yes, I have collapsed this material effectively. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:04:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Names as subentries On 4/4/1999 1:28 PM Richard Evans wrote (in part): >OK, I'm venturing outside my usual comfortable world of computer books to >index one on the political legacy of Bill Clinton. It's *really* scary out >here. Where are all my neatly hierarchical headings? What happened to all >the white space? Mommy!! > >Anyway, one practical question: when I have a proper name as a subentry, do >I invert it? For instance, in discussing Dick Morris and Clinton's >political strategy, I want to do something like this: > >Clinton, William Jefferson > Dick Morris, political strategist > >The alternative is: > >Clinton, William Jefferson > Morris, Dick, political strategist > >Neither of those strike me as correct. > I tend to use the last name only in subentries unless doing so creates an ambiguity. For instance, one would need to distinguish the Adamses in a discussion of early presidents. An approach for someone whose name appears often in subentries is to use the initials only with an explanatory headnote. For instance, HC for Hillary Clinton. Good luck, Dick. Craig Brown ===================================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www.i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314)481-9254 ===================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:06:04 EDT Reply-To: WordenDex@aol.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: handling terms Rachel, In a message dated 99-04-05 11:30:17 EDT, you write: << migrating to or from >> This is what birds and other creatures do. Im- and em- are what people do. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 08:53:44 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: online help subdivisions versus inverted terms In-Reply-To: <199904051133.rghlte.b0j.37kbi17@mx9.mindspring.com> If this is in WinHelp, not htmlhelp, I would be very careful about using commas at all. Commas are also sometimes used to separate main from subheads, and even if you use colons, and even if you designate colons, sometimes the compiler refuses to listen, and breaks entries at the comma. This is why I have gone with not inverting heads with a comma in WinHelp files. With HTMLhelp, the problem is gone, so you can do what you want. Jan Wright At 04:19 PM 4/5/99 +1000, Jon & Glenda wrote: >In an online help index do you have any preference for inverted terms over >subdivisions. For example, under trucks I have the following entries (and >others): > >trucks, tow >trucks, ice-cream > >Would you keep these as inverted terms by themselves, or merge them with the >other subdivisions, eg. > >trucks > comprehensive insurance > ice-cream (or ice-cream trucks) > inspecting > tow (or tow trucks) > >I'm tempted towards keeping them in the inverted form as it saves adding too >many subdivisions to one term, and it keeps types of trucks sorted >separately from things about trucks in general. And I also have a >time-saving program which will take my entries at tow trucks and duplicate >them at trucks, tow. > >Any opinions? > >Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:41:58 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: gerunds As a former English teacher and technical editor, I find the usage in index headings such as "create documents" instead of "creating documents" or "documents, creating" to be unacceptable. Quite often the title of a chapter or section must be revised for the index. Of course I am familiar mostly with back-of-the-book indexing and perhaps online indexing has different rules. Wellisch discusses this topic in "Indexing from A to Z," saying that in technical manuals and reports because of "the instructional nature of these texts, the headings are often formulated in terms of action, e.g., 'How to clean the air filter'. . . ." He goes on to say that such a heading should never go unchanged in the index since people are not in the habit of looking up index entries beginning with "how" and suggests that "air filters, cleaning" would be more appropriate. I am also curious whether we have to hyphenate words in the index to match those used in the text such as "water-skiing" instead of "waterskiing"? Today such words are usually printed solid. Since I am quite new to indexing and am just now plowing through USDA lesson 10, I would very much appreciate expert advice on these matters. (I do have one published index, but I must admit it was my son's book.) Jean Middleton Riverside, CA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:52:50 EDT Reply-To: Anntrue@aol.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Defining Indexing Styles In a message dated 4/5/99 11:30:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kschroed@MAIL.MSEN.COM writes: > I have looked through, literally dozens of sources to try and get > a list and comparison of Indexing Styles( e.g. Chain, String, Facet, > Permuted, etc.) Huh??? I know I'm a newbie, but all my tiny brain computes is "indented" and "run-in". Could someone enlighten me here? Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:03:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: Macrex Loading Question Sonsie, The short answer to this dilemma is if you saved the .Mk file (which is in ASCII) as well as the word processor file for this index. If you did, just Read (option "R" from the main menu) the ASCII file (it has to have ".mbk" as the file extension) into an empty index and presto, there it is. HOWEVER, each line of the index has to have the Main entry and any subentries followed by page numbers such as: Dogs, basset hound, 38, 92 Dogs, beagle, 32, 42, 71 Dogs, dalmatian, 82 Dogs, greyhound, 74 because it won't work if the file is like this: Dogs, basset hound, 38, 92 beagle, 32, 42, 71 dalmatian, 82 greyhound, 74 There are other very important things to be on the watch for such is italicized titles and See and See also references as well as curly commas such as in Grayson, Julie S. Good luck! Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:10:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: handling terms In-Reply-To: <199904051608.JAA23789@dns1.mcn.org> >In a message dated 99-04-05 11:30:17 EDT, you write: ><< migrating to or from >> > This is what birds and other creatures do. Im- and em- are what people do. > Diane in Kazoo Hmmm... Webster's 10th Collegiate, first definition is "to move from one country, place, or locality to another." The second definition is "to pass usu. periodically from one region or climate to another for feeding or breeding." Authors use the term migration frequently in reference to human population movements. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:19:20 EDT Reply-To: DStaub11@aol.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: handling terms << migrating to or from >> This is what birds and other creatures do. Im- and em- are what people do. >> Actually, migration is being used these days to describe people; as Rachel says, it's an inclusive term including both immigration and emigration (sometimes also called in-migration and out-migration). I've run into this exact problem, Rachel, and I can't remember exactly what I did. If the discussions are consistently mixed I think it would be all right to call the whole thing migration--the length of the heading just means you collected all the information there--but if the author is splitting some of it off under Immigration specifically, as I think you said (and it really is specfic and not just the author talking about both some more and being inexact with headings) then you may need to put some of it under Immigration and use lots of see alsos. You could put pages on which both are discussed together under Migration, and specific places under Imm and Em, with see alsos both ways. Let us know what you decide! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:19:50 EDT Reply-To: DStaub11@aol.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Macrex Loading Question Sonsie wrote: <> Sonsie, there's a section in the manual about that. It's quite easy. (Looking through manual...) Okay, it's on p. 10-11, Read and Correct a Backup File or Import a File, in the subsection called Word Processor Files. You need an ASCII file, so you're halfway there; then you have to add underscores for repeated heading levels, soft commas, and hard commas separating heading levels. Since this is your first time, I would call Gale and get her to run you through it. It's simple enough that I usually do it without her, though. Good luck! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:25:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: Names as subentries --------------0403EA207F9339A788B99525 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Evans wrote: > Clinton, William Jefferson > Dick Morris, political strategist > > The alternative is: > > Clinton, William Jefferson > Morris, Dick, political strategist > > Neither of those strike me as correct. > The alternative I find most widely accepted is: Clinton, William Jefferson Dick Morris, political strategist with the sort ignoring the "Dick" and sorting this entry by "Morris". This is easily done in Macrex by enclosing the "Dick [and space]" in curly brackets to force the program to sort this subentry alphabetically by "Morris" not "Dick". Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com --------------0403EA207F9339A788B99525 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Evans wrote: 
Clinton, William Jefferson
    Dick Morris, political strategist

The alternative is:

Clinton, William Jefferson
    Morris, Dick, political strategist

Neither of those strike me as correct.
The alternative I find most widely accepted is:
Clinton, William Jefferson
     Dick Morris, political strategist
with the sort ignoring the "Dick" and sorting this entry by "Morris". This is easily done in Macrex by enclosing the "Dick [and space]" in curly brackets to force the program to sort this subentry alphabetically by "Morris" not "Dick".

Julie Grayson
juliesg@ix.netcom.com --------------0403EA207F9339A788B99525-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:37:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: handling terms In-Reply-To: <199904051320.rghs65.7n9.37kbi16@mx8.mindspring.com> I get to index migration all the time - but not in this context! Would you believe that there's tons of software documentation written about "migrating" networks or users from one software package to another? It's a standard concept these days.... competitive edge, I guess, if you tell people how to change over to your software package. Just a silly aside.... Jan Wright At 01:19 PM 4/5/99 -0400, DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: ><< migrating to or from >> > This is what birds and other creatures do. Im- and em- are what people >do. >> > >Actually, migration is being used these days to describe people; as Rachel >says, it's an inclusive term including both immigration and emigration >(sometimes also called in-migration and out-migration). > >I've run into this exact problem, Rachel, and I can't remember exactly what I >did. If the discussions are consistently mixed I think it would be all right >to call the whole thing migration--the length of the heading just means you >collected all the information there--but if the author is splitting some of >it off under Immigration specifically, as I think you said (and it really is >specfic and not just the author talking about both some more and being >inexact with headings) then you may need to put some of it under Immigration >and use lots of see alsos. You could put pages on which both are discussed >together under Migration, and specific places under Imm and Em, with see >alsos both ways. > >Let us know what you decide! > >Do Mi =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com Jancw@wrightinformation.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:52:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: handling terms I'll just throw my two cents in here. If you are using the terms in a legal sense, my choice would be to make Immigration the main heading with cross references from Migration and Emigration. There are usually few (if any) legal restrictions on leaving a country, at least in the Western world. From a legal perspective, most of the restrictions involve entering the country. So unless the author is spending a great deal of time talking about, say, China's emigration restrictions, I'm not sure I would bother including it as a term. As for the use of migration, I think the guiding principle as always has to be the golden rule of Indexing: Where do you think the users of this index will look? If you have reason to believe that this is a term commonly used among the people who will be using your index, go for it, but I have to say that I don't think it's a commonly used term when refering to people, unless you're talking about, say, Bedouin tribes in Northern Africa who migrate around the region according to the season (or New York senior citizens who migrate to Florida every winter and return in the spring with the robins! :-) ). -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > -----Original Message----- > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:23:18 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Macrex Loading Question In-Reply-To: <199904051534.IAA07862@nccn.net> At 03:55 PM 3/31/99 -0800, you wrote: >I've never had to do this, but I feel certain there is a way to manage it. I >have a five-year-old index saved on a floppy that I want to import back into >Macrex to work on it. It's in ASCII format, and I had previously made it >into a .WPF file to import into WordPerfect for final editing. That's the >version I have on the floppy...edited, saved as ASCII text ready to mail to >an editor (on disk, not via email). > >How do I convert this file back into something Macrex can load and use? When >I tried to change the suffix to .DAT and load it as a database file, it >didn't work. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. > > =Sonsie= Sonsie: The instructions for doing this appear in the manual in the chapter entitled "Macrex Utilities" under option R for "Read and Correct a backup file". In brief, 1) the file must be in ASCII format (as yours is); 2) repeated headings must be denoted by underscore characters (replace your indentation characters, be they tabs or space strings, with underscore characters); 3) curly bracket any "soft" commas that should not function as level dividers; 4) remember that all Macrex reserved characters (\^{}~) will be implemented during loading; and 5) remember that any strings defined as keywords will be expanded during loading. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:51:09 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Leading names in subheadings In-Reply-To: <199904051543.IAA08415@nccn.net> At 02:28 PM 4/4/99 -0400, Dick wrote: >OK, I'm venturing outside my usual comfortable world of computer books to >index one on the political legacy of Bill Clinton. It's *really* scary out >here. Where are all my neatly hierarchical headings? What happened to all >the white space? Mommy!! My condolences, Dick: as you've said before, "been there, done that". >Anyway, one practical question: when I have a proper name as a subentry, do >I invert it? For instance, in discussing Dick Morris and Clinton's >political strategy, I want to do something like this: > >Clinton, William Jefferson > Dick Morris, political strategist > >The alternative is: > >Clinton, William Jefferson > Morris, Dick, political strategist > >Neither of those strike me as correct. This is just the problem: neither of these options nor any other, such as "Morris, D." or "D. Morris" strikes us as correct. I really like the natural word order of "Dick Morris", but I wouldn't want to file it under "Dick" and I also wouldn't want to hide "Dick" from the sort as though it were a function word. The last time this problem was discussed on this list somebody suggested using the last name only in subheadings whenever the identity is clear and adding initials or even names when it's necessary to distinguish between individuals with the same last name. This appeals to me since the name in full will appear elsewhere as a main heading. In this case, however, I might modify the construction to "Clinton, William Jefferson: and Morris" or "Clinton, William Jefferson: and Morris, D." to indicate a relationship between subheading and main heading more clearly, or to "Clinton, William Jefferson: political strategist" or "Clinton, William Jefferson: political strategist (Morris)" to emphasize _the_ relationship between subheading and main heading. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 530-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:03:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Sweeney Subject: Re: handling terms Library of Congress scope notes differentiate "emigration and immigration" from "migration" as follows: Emigration and immigration Here are entered works dealing with migration from one country to another, or from one section of a country to another country or to a section of another country. Works on the movement of population from one section to another section of the same country are entered under Migration, Internal. Migration, Internal Here are entered works on the movement of population from one section to another section of the same country. Works on migration from one country to another, or from one section of a country to another country or to a section of another country are entered under Emigration and immigration. Rachel Rice wrote: > How do you all handle immigration, emigration, migration. Book is about > population. All three terms are everywhere throughout. Migration can of > course mean either im or em, and xrefs could end up like > > immigration. See also emigration; migration > > emigration. See also immigration; migration > > migration. See also emigration; immigration > > Yucky. I'm wracking my brains trying to pull them together. Didn't we just > talk about a similar xref scenario? If I pick migration and See the others > to it, I could end up with a two-column or more entry. Mostly migration > would cover it nicely, except the author went and put a whole chap titled > Immigration, and several heading in other chapters on Immigration, so I > don't know whether to pict imm or mig. Tearing my hair. It really doesn't > matter in almost all contexts whether it's im or em in this book. > > I say we do away with im and em, and just say migrating to or from > somewhere and be done with the whole issue. Who's with me?????? > > Thanks as always, > > Rachel > > Rachel Rice > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > Indexing, editing, proofreading > http://homepages.together.net/~racric > racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:05:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: migration terms In-Reply-To: <07F3ED0E0DA7D1119A5B00805FA79A4801AFE98E@LNXCHOEXCH01> For better or worse, here's what I ended up doing with im-, em-, and migration. (Index-L was down and I was on my own, and I've already sent the thing, so if I chose wrong, too late.) The book was on problems of world population. "Emigration" was used only once and not in a way that required it to be specifically migrating away from somewhere, so I just made a See from em to both im and mig. There were discussions about legal/illegal immigrants, so those were easy, but mostly it all was about patterns of migration from one part of the world to another and the influence of migration on population and growth rates, and affects on fertility rates and age composition. I put entries that had to do with going from a particular place to another particular place for the main entry immigration (such as typical immigration patterns from Mexico to the US, Algeria to France, etc.), and those that were just general concepts about moving around the planet I put under migration. I made circular xrefs from imm to mig and back again. I don't like doing that. But I did it. I believe that "migration" is used quite often in reference to humans, not just to animals, in books of this nature. As an aside, there was an interesting discussion on the affects of early exploration on migration patterns, too, which I found fascinating. I'll be interested to read what others have done in other contexts. I hope I chose the best way to handle it. If not, I'll hope to learn to do it better next time. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:29:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "M. Jessie Barczak" Subject: Re: Leading names in subheadings At 10:51 AM 4/5/99 LCL, you wrote: >At 02:28 PM 4/4/99 -0400, Dick wrote: >>OK, I'm venturing outside my usual comfortable world of computer books to >>index one on the political legacy of Bill Clinton. It's *really* scary out >>here. Where are all my neatly hierarchical headings? What happened to all >>the white space? Mommy!! > >My condolences, Dick: as you've said before, "been there, done that". > > >>Anyway, one practical question: when I have a proper name as a subentry, do >>I invert it? For instance, in discussing Dick Morris and Clinton's >>political strategy, I want to do something like this: >> >>Clinton, William Jefferson >> Dick Morris, political strategist >> >>The alternative is: >> >>Clinton, William Jefferson >> Morris, Dick, political strategist >> >>Neither of those strike me as correct. I would say the subfield with the name "Dick Morris" is OK, at least for periodicals (my specialty) However, perhaps you could use a concept as the subfield, and then index "Morris, Dick" with the same concept. I can't suggest a concept as I don't know the subject matter of the text. I try to keep entries as broad and generic as possible to avoid such conundra. M. Jessie Barczak CQ Weekly Report Washington, DC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:41:15 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: Defining Indexing Styles Kim Schroeder wrote: I have looked through, literally dozens of sources to try and get >a list and comparison of Indexing Styles( e.g. Chain, String, Facet, >Permuted, etc.) It seems that everything calls the various types something >different and I have not yet found a comprehensive list. Even the ASI >Web-site does not seem to cover this. So far, I have the Lancaster Book >(Indexing and Abstracting") and the Cleveland book as my best sources, but >even these two leave a lot of ground uncovered... >I want very much to better explain to my students the strengths and >weaknesses or even the evolution of different types of indexes. Is anything >out there, already or will I have to create it? Does anyone see how ironic >it is that Indexers don't have standard names for their own work? You may find Indexing A-Z by Wellisch helpful. The difficulty with the list you are trying to compile is that they are not really back-of-the-book indexing methods. These are ways of indexing different types of materials using quite different theories and methodologies. They have developed out of varying traditions. For example, chain indexing is based on a classification scheme such a Dewey. A book that compared them all and discussed their suitability for book indexing would have to be very comprehensive indeed. The way I have approached it in my classes is to cover various methodologies throughout the term (often in a representative lecture, if it is complex system that they will not be able to get hands-on experience with), looking at how they are used effectively in terms of types of materials, depth of indexing, time requirements, etc. By the time we get to back-of-the book, I can then refer back to these and it is easier for students to see the weakness and possible applications in terms of book indexing, especially when they look at examples. By the way, if your students have completed or are taking a course in principles of classification, you might find it helpful to look at what they covered and to relate your explanations back to these for such concepts as faceted and chain indexing. Students often miss the point that classification schemes are indexing languages and don't think about it unless pointed in the right direction. Getting them to link stuff from across the curriculum can be a challenge! Good luck, Christine ************************************************************************* Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Co-Chair Information and Library Technologies Dept. John Abbott College P.O. Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC H9X 3L9 of:(514) 457-6610, loc.470; fax: (514) 457-4730 ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:45:29 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: connie binder Subject: Re: Guarantee Dan, I'm not sure if this is what they are looking for, but a publisher I work with includes a line in the contract stating that they will accept a 98% accuracy rate (sometimes it's 95% -- I guess it depends on who is writing up the letter of agreement). They never define what accuracy means -- I think having a high percentage makes the folks who have to approve contracts feel good, and leaves them recourse should a contractor turn in a really bad index. Connie Binder cbinder@erols.com Dan Connolly wrote: > I've recently received an inquiry from a publisher in response to my marketing > materials and was wondering if anyone had handled a similar question. > > Along with asking about page rates, availability, and index delivery, they > ask, "Do you guarantee your work? (Not trying to put you on the spot--just > wondering.)" > > Has anyone handled a similar question? Does anyone know to what, exactly, they > are referring? This is a publisher of boating and outdoor sports material, in > case you're wondering. > > I can speak to confidentiality, thoroughness, meeting deadlines, and other > related matters, but am not sure what else I would be "guaranteeing." I > guarantee it will be an index. Thoughts? > > Dan > -- > ============================= > Daniel A. Connolly > mailto:connolly@neca.com > Word For Word Indexing Services > http://www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com > Woodstock, CT, USA > ============================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:18:23 EDT Reply-To: DStaub11@aol.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: migration terms Rachel wrote: << The book was on problems of world population. "Emigration" was used only once and not in a way that required it to be specifically migrating away from somewhere, so I just made a See from em to both im and mig. ... I put entries that had to do with going from a particular place to another particular place for the main entry immigration (such as typical immigration patterns from Mexico to the US, Algeria to France, etc.), and those that were just general concepts about moving around the planet I put under migration. I made circular xrefs from imm to mig and back again. I don't like doing that. But I did it. >> Rachel, those sound like excellent choices to me, including the circular see also references. This is one of the situations in which they're necessary--no need to be apologetic! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:11:01 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: handling terms In-Reply-To: <199904051908.MAA28088@dns1.mcn.org> Sharon wrote: >Library of Congress scope notes differentiate "emigration and immigration" >from "migration" as follows: When indexing scholarly works or textbooks, one is constrained to use the terms as the author has used them. In multi-disciplinary works terms are used, mixed, and redefined on a regular basis. The point of the index is to help the reader understand the book at hand, not to adhere to rigid categories that are not used in the book. Knowing what the outside categories are is necessary and helpful to creating cross-referencing systems that guide the reader to the actual usage of the book, but each book has to be indexed according to the author's schematic. Where there is a choice of terms, one still enters the synonyms and cross-references them to the main heading chosen. Author's choices: In modern humanities, the growing consensus is to treat the migrations of people(s) as a natural phenomenon that continues to the present day, one that is nevertheless constrained and persecuted by political barriers. It has therefore become a political choice to use the term migration, especially in works that address the effects of colonization and governments on native peoples, and the study of diasporic cultures. How all this affects Rachel's choices is of course up to her, depending on the nature of the text. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:17:04 -0700 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Profile of Hans Wellisch A nice profile of Hans Wellisch by Hazel Bell appears in the July 1998 (just received) issue of Journal of Scholarly Publishing: "Personalities in Publishing: Hans Wellisch" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:23:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Verifying name spelling Is there a place on the Net to verify spelling of proper names? For instance, I need to verify the spelling of Lani Guanier/Guineer/Guinier. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:26:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Names as subentries Dick, I loved your call for help on handling names as subentries--I often felt that in conceptual indexing. Sometimes it felt like "I want to go home!" (Imagine feeling this way for 26 years...and on deadline, too...) > I think the question of inverting names depends on the number of subentries and how it looks. I'm sure others will have ideas about that. My concern is with the wording of the subentries. In this type of indexing, you want to have the subentry "fit" with the main heading grammatically--very unlike computer-book indexes. Putting aside for the moment the issue of having Clinton as a main heading in a book that is entirely about Clinton, you would want something like one of the following: Clinton, William Jefferson Dick Morris and political strategists and Morris as political strategist for You get the idea. However, in this case you wouldn't want Dick Morris as a subentry under Clinton at all, but as a main entry, and a subentry under "Political strategists" or whatever... In the latter case, you could just use the last name as a subentry. Under "Clinton," you would only put personal or biographical-type entries: birth as father as governor (this would undoubtedly be a cross-reference or a longish page range) marriage Wording is of course very flexible, within the "sense" parameters mentioned above. Hope this helps! And I'm sure others will help more. Have fun! Elinor Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:34:48 -0500 Reply-To: lfetters@caller.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Fetters Organization: InfiNet Subject: Indexing using previous index Here's one more perspective on indexing a new edition of a book using the index to the previous edition. I frequently use previous indexes with one particular client because they frequently use much of the same material with only a few changes plus the addition of new material. For these projects, I sort the index into page order in Cindex, select all entries and mark them for deletion. You have to work with the index in draft view for this to work. As I go through the manual, I edit each entry as needed and change the page reference if needed, then undelete the entry. Using this technique, I'm pretty certain not to leave any unwanted entries in the new index. Occasionlly I forget to undelete a record, but I almost always catch those in the final edit, and also do a search for deleted records to double check them. I am now working on a new edition of a 2000 page medical book that I indexed 5 years ago, using a similar technique. I've marked all the records for deletion (you could also use CinWin's "label" feature to mark all the records in color instead of deleting them). Even though I'm finding that I can't use all the old entries, it has been very helpful to work with the old index file because the structure of the index is in place. Most of the headings and cross-references are valid. I don't have to worry about how I handled it the first time. Some of the chapters are almost exactly the same and I don't have to rekey the entries. Others are considerably different, so I ignore them and make new entries. At the end I'll check for delted entries to make sure I didn't overlook anything. Then I'll compress the index to delete the records marked for deletion. Another helpful technique is to identify the entries for a particular chapter and save them as a group. You can sort groups in Cindex independent of the rest of the index, so it makes it much quicker to switch between page and alpha order. If you name the saved group, you can easily recall it at any time, even after you've exited Cindex. Linda Fetters ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:45:22 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: handling terms I think I would want to know more about the subject of the book than just "population." How to handle the terms would depend on the point of view of the book, that chapter, the page... There is a difference in meaning between these terms. One emigrates from Italy to the U.S. One immigrates to the U.S. from Italy. One migrates within the U.S. from New York to Ohio to Texas... Does that help? Elinor Rachel Rice wrote: > How do you all handle immigration, emigration, migration. Book is about > population. All three terms are everywhere throughout. Migration can of > course mean either im or em, and xrefs could end up like > > immigration. See also emigration; migration > > emigration. See also immigration; migration > > migration. See also emigration; immigration > > Yucky. I'm wracking my brains trying to pull them together. Didn't we just > talk about a similar xref scenario? If I pick migration and See the others > to it, I could end up with a two-column or more entry. Mostly migration > would cover it nicely, except the author went and put a whole chap titled > Immigration, and several heading in other chapters on Immigration, so I > don't know whether to pict imm or mig. Tearing my hair. It really doesn't > matter in almost all contexts whether it's im or em in this book. > > I say we do away with im and em, and just say migrating to or from > somewhere and be done with the whole issue. Who's with me?????? > > Thanks as always, > > Rachel > > Rachel Rice > Directions Unlimited Desktop Services > Indexing, editing, proofreading > http://homepages.together.net/~racric > racric ICQ 31476947 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:50:20 EDT Reply-To: Greystones@aol.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "[Gaye Tarallo]" Subject: Per-page rates Hi, I was wondering how most of you arrive at a number of "indexable pages" in order to bill a client. Do you charge for a full page even if there is only a half page of text and the other half is an illustration? Thanks, Gaye Tarallo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:05:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Sherman Grayson Subject: Re: Per-page rates --------------8AE9CEA4DE8E6E6E749EE212 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gaye Tarallo asked: > Do you charge for a full page even if there is only > a half page of text and the other half is an illustration? > Yes, in my experience most publishers have no problem considering this one indexable page. When I first started indexing, I would dedicatedly count the text pages, page by page and perhaps not count an end chapter page which contained only a few lines and the references or other information. However, most publishers will stipulate in the contractual information they send you (whatever that might be) how many pages are included and they usually just look at the end page number of the page proofs and then indicate how they want the front and/or back matter handled. Others may deal differently with this, however, who has the time any more to COUNT PAGES???!!! Julie Grayson juliesg@ix.netcom.com --------------8AE9CEA4DE8E6E6E749EE212 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gaye Tarallo asked: 

Do you charge for a full page even if there is only
a half page of text and the other half is an illustration?
Yes, in my experience most publishers have no problem considering this one indexable page. When I first started indexing, I would dedicatedly count the text pages, page by page and perhaps not count an end chapter page which contained only a few lines and the references or other information. However, most publishers will stipulate in the contractual information they send you (whatever that might be) how many pages are included and they usually just look at the end page number of the page proofs and then indicate how they want the front and/or back matter handled.

Others may deal differently with this, however, who has the time any more to COUNT PAGES???!!!
Julie Grayson
juliesg@ix.netcom.com --------------8AE9CEA4DE8E6E6E749EE212-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:15:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charles Anderson Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money There are some tax benefits to full incorporation or the S-Corporation (if that is still around). Such things as deductions for medical plans paid from the Corporation income rather than being part of the self-insurance deduction. Only an accountant or lots of reading of the tax laws will give you the full picture. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon & Glenda To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 9:42 PM Subject: Re: Managing your (freelance) money > Field, Susan (S.) wrote: > > > Has anyone chosen to incorporate their business, rather than simply file a > > Schedule C with their 1040(in the United States)? If yes, why? I am > > grappling with this decision myself. > > We incorporated in 1995 because we were about to take on a long-term job for > a semi-Government organisation which required us to sign a contract with an > indemnity clause - basically saying that we were fully responsible for any > costs or charges incurred as a result of our indexing, despite the fact that > they were supposed to be overseeing it. We acted on legal advice that if our > company was sued for a million dollars it probably wouldn't result in the > loss of our house, etc. > > In the event the job evaporated after a year and the costs and paperwork > associated with setting up and maintaining the company made it not worth the > trouble of keeping up. Most of the costs, incidentally, seemed to have > little bearing on the amount of work or service we were supposed to be > paying for - legal fees, company setup fees which went to three anonymous > people who bought shelf companies by the hundred, workers' compensation and > superannuation which were mandatory even though we were the only > employees... we felt that the company was providing a whole flock of > parasites with a sinecure and doing very little for us. We wound it up after > a couple of years and I was glad to see the back of it. > > If the same thing happened again I would have the contract rewritten or > refuse the job. I would rather spend my time making money for myself than > doing the paperwork to allow other people to make money from me. > > Jon > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:17:22 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Guarantee In-Reply-To: <199904052056.NAA02241@decibel.electriciti.com> I have not been asked to "guarantee" an index, but I would certainly--absolutely--require that there be wording that I would not be responsible for traveling page numbers after I had submitted an index. An index I would otherwise be very proud of was turned into an absolute mess by indelicate production staff who rearranged pages. I wish it were not my experience, but I can only guarantee what I control. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com