From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Thu Dec 24 18:07:39 1998 Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:45:20 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Ilana Kingsley Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9810B" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:01:12 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Gifts for clients, some thoughts In-Reply-To: <199810071851.OAA27104@camel9.mindspring.com> I used to give gifts when my client list was smaller and I usually gave something the whole staff could enjoy, like a fruit basket. Nowadays, I may have several regular clients, but I may work for five or six different editors in each one and never even meet the person in charge. Or I may have a client for whom I've only done one job in the year. It just got too complicated to figure out who to send to. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:48:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Levenger's Bookweights (WAS: Gifts for clients) From: Rica Night And last year, a longtime client of mine gave *me* an incredibly useful=20 gift. I don't know exactly what to call it, so I'll just describe what it=20 does and what it looks like. It holds open the pages of a book while I'm=20 reading it; I also use it as a paperweight on breezy days or on hot ones=20 when I've got the fan trained on my desk. It's a beautiful, hand-tooled=20 leather thingie, about six inches long, with a weight inside each end. My=20 very thoughtful client (who also pays incredibly well) had my initials put= =20 on somehow--etched? embossed? stamped? Anyway, it's extraordinarily=20 handsome. It comes from an outfit called "Levenger's: Tools for Serious=20 Readers." Just got a catalogue from them, but it's at home and I'm at the=20 office (the story of my life). I'd be willing to bet that they have a Web=20 site by now. ______________ What Rica described is called the "Levenger Bookweight II" (I have their latest catalog in front of me). It's $19.95, but if you buy 5 or more, the price drops to $17.95. It comes in rust, black, tan, blue, burgundy, and green, and they can be monogramed for an additional $3.95. Elaine (Not affiliated with Levenger's in anyway, except as a very satisfied customer.) Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:00:25 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: gifts for clients In-Reply-To: <199810080206.TAA29668@decibel.electriciti.com> At 06:59 PM 10/7/98 -0700, Elinor wrote: > If you're good, reliable, easy to get along with on >the phone, and there for your clients when they need you, >that's the greatest gift you can give them. They care much >more about quality work than about anything else, believe >me. > I truly believe you, Elinor, it is my experience, also. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:39:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dawn Spencer Subject: Tennessee Regional Group Fall Meeting The Tennessee Regional Group of ASI announces their Fall meeting. DATE: Saturday, December 5, 1998 TIME: 10:00 am to 2:30 pm (Eastern Standard Time) PLACE: University of Tennessee at Knoxville, in the College of Law (Taylor Law Center). BRING: Lunch money In the morning, our program "Dueling Indexers" will pit dedicated indexing software packages against each other in a program-to-program indexing competition. Indexers who do not have Internet access to download demos of the programs will appreciate seeing these packages firsthand. If you have the demos, it will be valuable to talk to indexers who use these programs. Following lunch, the presentation "Should I Raise My Rate? and Other Administrative Quandaries" will focus on how spreadsheet software helps indexers analyze projects for administrative decision-making. This introduction to project management should appeal to freelance indexers. The meeting is free and open to members and nonmembers; new and experienced indexers; students; freelance and traditionally employed indexers; and those who are curious about indexing. Directions and a map will be posted at the web site of the Tennessee Regional Group at: http://members.aol.com/tennwords/directions To register, please send your name (and a way to contact you if we need to) to: Tennessee Regional Group 168 Jones Street Rockwood, TN 37854 Tel: (423) 354-9601 Fax: (423) 354-9601 tennwords@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:28:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Binder Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients On 10/07/98 5:46 PM, Carol Roberts wrote: >>One thing to think about before you do this is that some of your clients may >>not be Christian or celebrate Christmas. Many of my clients are Jewish. > >Hear, hear! Not only that, but they may not even be theists. I myself am >offended when someone (who knows me well enough to know better) sends me a >Christmas card. Business contacts are still people; I'd rather send nothing >than risk offense. Do you mean you are offended to receive any cards during December or that you are offended to receive cards that make reference to Christmas or the Christian religion? It seems to me that it shouldn't be offensive for me to send a non-religious, non-Christmas card to you at the same time as I send cards to my other friends, which happens to be Christmas for me because I am a Christian. If I sent you a business-related holiday card, it might (for example) have an image of a polar bear (which is my logo) in the snow on the front and on the other side it might say "Thank you for your business. Best wishes for the coming year." Would that be offensive? I'm not trying to be pushy -- I just want to understand your position. Kate ------------------------------------- Kate Binder, Ursa Editorial Design UrsaDesign@aol.com http://members.aol.com/ursadesign ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:50:26 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Gifts for clients, some thoughts I was just discussing this with a major client turned friend (freelance supervisor for a fairly large press). She said she doesn't really think gifts are appropriate--they belong to a business world that's different from publishing. Appreciation cards are another thing and always welcome. Of course, this is one person's opinion, but one to which I would give a fair amount of weight! I'm going to stop feeling vaguely guilty that I haven't done presents, and try to send cards once in a while to my special clients. I also like what Elinor said. I've always felt that my clients deeply appreciate me for doing good work on time! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:53:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Levenger's Bookweights (WAS: Gifts for clients) I was just at the Levenger site and those paperweights (they said something about Draftsmen weights) are on sale for $11.95 in the outlet section. At 09:48 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >From: Rica Night > >And last year, a longtime client of mine gave *me* an incredibly useful=20 >gift. I don't know exactly what to call it, so I'll just describe what it=20 >does and what it looks like. It holds open the pages of a book while I'm=20 >reading it; I also use it as a paperweight on breezy days or on hot ones=20 >when I've got the fan trained on my desk. It's a beautiful, hand-tooled=20 >leather thingie, about six inches long, with a weight inside each end. My=20 >very thoughtful client (who also pays incredibly well) had my initials put= >=20 >on somehow--etched? embossed? stamped? Anyway, it's extraordinarily=20 >handsome. It comes from an outfit called "Levenger's: Tools for Serious=20 >Readers." Just got a catalogue from them, but it's at home and I'm at the=20 >office (the story of my life). I'd be willing to bet that they have a Web=20 >site by now. >______________ >What Rica described is called the "Levenger Bookweight II" (I have their >latest catalog in front of me). It's $19.95, but if you buy 5 or more, the >price drops to $17.95. It comes in rust, black, tan, blue, burgundy, and >green, and they can be monogramed for an additional $3.95. > >Elaine (Not affiliated with Levenger's in anyway, except as a very >satisfied customer.) > > >Elaine R. Firestone, ELS >elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov >elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:53:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Subject: Re: Gifts for clients, some thoughts I agree. Cards go a long way, and your excellent product for the client is gift enough (even though they pay for it). Your ultimate gift is your talent ... MJB > -----Original Message----- > From: DStaub11@AOL.COM [SMTP:DStaub11@AOL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 11:50 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Gifts for clients, some thoughts > > I was just discussing this with a major client turned friend (freelance > supervisor for a fairly large press). She said she doesn't really think > gifts > are appropriate--they belong to a business world that's different from > publishing. Appreciation cards are another thing and always welcome. Of > course, this is one person's opinion, but one to which I would give a fair > amount of weight! I'm going to stop feeling vaguely guilty that I haven't > done > presents, and try to send cards once in a while to my special clients. I > also > like what Elinor said. I've always felt that my clients deeply appreciate > me > for doing good work on time! > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:06:08 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients In-Reply-To: <199810081538.IAA14752@decibel.electriciti.com> >On 10/07/98 5:46 PM, Carol Roberts wrote: > >>>One thing to think about before you do this is that some of your clients may >>>not be Christian or celebrate Christmas. Many of my clients are Jewish. >> Which is very thoughtful. My Jewish friends are used to having their religious observances ignored, but they genuinely appreciate it when members of the dominate religious faith appreciate that majority does not mean all. Certainly Buddhists, Hindus, and those who are nonobservant might have similar feelings. This is the sort of distinction one would expect of indexers. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:44:24 -0700 Reply-To: indexer@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sherry L. Smith" Subject: Re: Gifts for clients, some more thoughts Gift giving certainly prompts discussion. Here are some more of my thoughts. Gift giving, in any culture, is an expression of values. In our culture, "business networking" has created an entire arena of suitable gifts. There are many catalogs sent to businesses just for the purpose. In this arena, the product seems to take the place of traditional gift giving. The primary purpose is to maintain allegiance. Traditional gift giving meant sharing with people who were important in your life. Those people were usually in a smaller circle than they are today. You cared about them, in love or respect, and acknowledged those feelings with your gift. Sending a gift to an editor can mean "business networking". It can also mean that I care about this person and that they add more to my life than a "check". It can help create "community" in this impersonal, busy world. And, before I step down from the soapbox, let me add one more thing. Gift giving works best when we want to, not when we feel obligated. So, the answer........ To steal one of Do Mi's lines, it depends. Sherry Sherry L Smith INDEXING SERVICES 63505 Bridle Lane Bend, OR 97701 541 382 6414 indexer@ibm.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:18:25 +0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: X-Mas gifts I would rather receive cards from clients, if it is a sign that they appreciate my work. There would be no question of commercial interest. If I send cards because it is Christmas, I am celebrating it by sending good wishes. This assumes nothing about the recipients' religion or ideology. Similarly if people wish me well because it is winter solstice, or their religious festival, I see no reason to take offence. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:13:48 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: christy graunke Subject: foreign alphabets/FrameMaker Hello! Does anybody know of any useful tricks for automatically sorting foreign alphabets? I do a lot of FrameMaker work for a translation company, and have yet to find a way to sort special alphabets (particularly Russian and Greek). FrameMaker is *supposed* to be able to do this by specifying the sort order on the reference page, but, so far, this has only produced randomly splattered entries. We have tried both FrameMaker 5.1 (on PC) and 5.5 (on Macintosh), although most of our more difficult languages are on PC. We currently spend 4-5 hours per index sorting them by hand, so any tool that would help sort out this mess would be much appreciated. One that would work with FrameMaker would be especially useful since we use FrameMaker to generate PDF files and would like to retain the hyperlinks from the index to the document. Thanks again for your HELP!!! :) christy christyworks@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:23:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Helvetia M. Martell" Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients I never send/give Christmas cards/presents to anyone, not even to relatives or friends. What I do every year during the month of December is send/give them Happy New Year cards/ gifts. Since the New Year celebration is so close to the religious holidays, it still carries the warm feeling of the holidays without the religious content. Helvetia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:55:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Levenger's Bookweights (WAS: Gifts for clients) In-Reply-To: <199810081554.IAA14523@pacific.net> At 11:53 AM 10/8/1998 -0400, you wrote: >I was just at the Levenger site and those paperweights (they said something >about Draftsmen weights) are on sale for $11.95 in the outlet section. The Draftsmen weights are not the same thing as the other one under discussion. --Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:05:27 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 30 Sep 1998 to 1 Oct 1998 In-Reply-To: <03580788223516@domain1.bigpond.com> > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:25:08 -0700 > From: Lynn Moncrief > Subject: Re: Web Indexers Mailing List now available > What a great idea! I joined the WINMAIL the day I saw this message and > received a welcoming message. However, the welcoming message doesn't give > any instructions on how to actually post to the list. Am I missing > something here? (I'm posting this to the list rather than just you > privately in case others here have joined and are also waiting to find out > how to post. Since I haven't received any messages from the list, perhaps > no one else knows how to post to it either. ;-D) Sorry not to have replied sooner, but I've been away for a few days. Here are the details: To post a message to the WINDMAIL list, write to WINDMAIL@listbot.com To view the list archives, subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://windmail.listbot.com (Note: no "www") At the moment the list is unmoderated, so anything you post will go to all members. Currently there are 53 subscribers. I'm sending this both to the WINDMAIL list and to INDEX-L, so some of you will receive two copies. You can compare them to identify the additional material added by the LISTBOT system. Jonathan ------------------------------ Jonathan Jermey Webmaster, Australian Society of Indexers http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:34:49 -0400 Reply-To: varney@mindspring.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: J Flenner Subject: Indexing Course Question Does anyone on the list happen to know anything about this workshop [below] and/or this organization? I've sent them an email with a request for more info about the workshop content, but I haven't heard from them yet. I've just gotten interested in indexing and I signed up for the USDA course a couple of days ago, and I've been disappointed to see people on the indexstudents list talk about the lengthy turn-around time on assignments, so I'm looking around at other possibilities for training. Jackie Flenner Asheville, NC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Introduction to Indexing (EEI C http://www.eeicom.com/training/class/indexing.html Introduction to Indexing 2 days, 9AM-4PM, $550 Offers an introduction to an essential publication skill that is much needed and little understood. + Purpose and audience + Organization and arrangement + Terminology and methods + Selection and phrasing of headings and subheadings + Cross-references + Using software as an indexing tool Includes Indexing Books. Class Dates and Times 301121M Oct 23-24 Hunter/Zafran Alexandria, VA Copyright 1998 EEI Communications Training 66 Canal Center Plaza, Suite 500 Alexandria, Virginia 22314-5507, USA Phone +1 703 683 7453; Fax +1 703 683 7310 Outside of Metro Area +1 888 253 2762 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:36:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients In-Reply-To: <199810090405.XAA20700@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Do you mean you are offended to receive any cards during December or that >you are offended to receive cards that make reference to Christmas or the >Christian religion? It seems to me that it shouldn't be offensive for me >to send a non-religious, non-Christmas card to you at the same time as I >send cards to my other friends, which happens to be Christmas for me >because I am a Christian. I am offended only by religious Christmas cards (angels, Jesus messages, etc.), sent to me by people who know I'm not a Christian. I don't have a problem with nonreligious cards sent in December. I myself send solstice cards. >If I sent you a business-related holiday card, it might (for example) >have an image of a polar bear (which is my logo) in the snow on the front >and on the other side it might say "Thank you for your business. Best >wishes for the coming year." Would that be offensive? I'm not trying to >be pushy -- I just want to understand your position. No, I wouldn't find that offensive at all. Those are just the kinds of cards I send: polar bears, snowy scenes, snowmen/women. However, for clients I think I still prefer not to send cards in December. Perhaps this is just my rebellion against the part of Western culture that assumes that everyone is celebrating in December. Anyway, I hope this makes my position clearer. I agree with Elinore, though. I don't think it makes any difference to my business whether I send cards or not--whatever time of year. But I do like to send them to favorite clients, just because I like and appreciate them. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:37:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Indexing Course Question One of the instructors appears to be Enid Zafran, a past chair of the DC ASI chapter. I don't know her well, but understand that she is very good. She used to supervise and train indexers in-house (for the Bureau of National Affairs), and the current chair, Mike Bernier, speaks highly of her. (Mike, if I've misrepresented anything inadvertently, please correct?) Actually, I wish I could go... but it conflicts with an out-of-town trip which has been scheduled for months. Ah, well. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr. King George, VA 22485 (540) 775-4072 jkpekar@crosslink.net > Does anyone on the list happen to know anything about this workshop > [below] and/or this organization? I've sent them an email with a > request for more info about the workshop content, but I haven't heard > from them yet. > > I've just gotten interested in indexing and I signed up for the USDA > course a couple of days ago, and I've been disappointed to see people on > the indexstudents list talk about the lengthy turn-around time on > assignments, so I'm looking around at other possibilities for training. > > Jackie Flenner > Asheville, NC > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > - > > Introduction to Indexing (EEI C > http://www.eeicom.com/training/class/indexing.html > > > Introduction to Indexing > > 2 days, 9AM-4PM, $550 > > > Offers an introduction to an essential publication skill that is much > needed and little understood. > > + Purpose and audience > + Organization and arrangement > + Terminology and methods > + Selection and phrasing of headings and subheadings > + Cross-references > + Using software as an indexing tool > > Includes Indexing Books. > > Class Dates and Times > > 301121M Oct 23-24 Hunter/Zafran Alexandria, > VA > Copyright 1998 > EEI Communications Training > 66 Canal Center Plaza, Suite 500 > Alexandria, Virginia 22314-5507, USA > Phone +1 703 683 7453; Fax +1 703 683 7310 > Outside of Metro Area +1 888 253 2762 > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:48:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: new name and number Some of you may remember my search for a business name. I'm pleased to announce that I have chosen the name Wordsmith Indexing Services. Also, please note that my business phone number has changed to (540) 774-4072. If necessary, I can still be reached at the old number, which remains my personal number. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr. King George, VA 22485 (540) 774-4072 jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:23:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients Carol Roberts wrote: > I am offended only by religious Christmas cards (angels, Jesus messages, > etc.), sent to me by people who know I'm not a Christian. I don't have a > problem with nonreligious cards sent in December. I myself send solstice > cards. I agree that we all need to be sensitive to the feelings of those to whom we send cards. As numerous people, including Carol, have pointed out, many non-Christians are offended by Christmas (as opposed to generic holiday or winter-season) cards. Seasonal, non-specific cards with snow scenes, chickadees, etc. are probably fine. Perhaps it is safest to avoid tying cards to a holiday or calendar event at all, unless you know the client well enough to know what holidays s/he celebrates. After all, I suspect some Native Americans/Indians may be uncomfortable with Thanksgiving, in view of how they have been treated since the first one. And we shouldn't assume that Christians are exempt from the need for sensitivity just because they are the majority. The possible pagan/Wiccan connotation of solstice may be equally uncomfortable for some conservative Christians. (Please note: I'm not trying to single Carol out here! I don't know whether she intends her solstice cards to imply the astronomical solstice or the pagan holiday, and it wouldn't bother me either way! I just want to point out that even something as seemingly innocuous as solstice can be "loaded.") OTOH, I'd hate to let a fear of offending keep me from making a friendly gesture! I do plan to send cards and gifts to my favorite clients this year. I'll be sensitive in choosing and wording the cards...but I trust that they will be seen by clients as an expression of appreciation. After all, it's always nice to be appreciated! Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr. King George, VA 22485 (540) 774-4072 jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:37:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients How about just sending nice "blank inside" cards with dreamy pictures of peaceful snow-covered forests and saying something like, "As the year ends, I'd like to tell you how much I have appreciated working with you this year. Thank you." Some of the UNICEF cards available for sale are blank and also might be appropriate, and the added bonus is that some of the money goes to child health programs in countries where children don't have much going for them. I know that for those who are not Christians, the season can be offensive. But, on the other hand, it is never out of season to be a giving person. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen Bertelsen Indexing and Editorial Services "Cookbooks and Food History a Specialty" cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.usit.com/cbertel/ ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:45:13 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Marilyn J. Rowland" Subject: Re: Ataturk I indexed Ataturk recently too, but under both: Ataturk (Mustafa Kemal) Kemal, Mustafa (Ataturk) He is listed under Ataturk in Webster's biographical dictionary, which provides the following information: He was born Mustafa in 1881, but adopted the surname of Kemal when he was in school. In 1933, as president of Turkey, he promulgated a law which required use of family names, under which he was given the name Ataturk, which means "father of the Turks." He died in 1938, so, during the time period of your chapter, he may not yet have been legally Ataturk. In my index, he was one of many people mentioned in a book on influential people of history and only had a couple of page numbers. But, he is much more important in your book, and I think it might be worth querying the editor about how to list him. Marilyn Rowland ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:11:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: Indexing and MS Word Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. Any advice would be much appreciated! -- Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:33:59 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Brenner Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word Hi Kari -- Do you want help creating an "embedded index" using Word or simply a regular Word file that has an already-created index as its content? Diane Brenner P.O. Box 206 Worthington, MA 01098 413-238-5593 dbrenner@javanet.com Kari Miller wrote: > Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an > index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. > Any advice would be much appreciated! > > -- > Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 16:42:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word In a message dated 98-10-10 15:13:28 EDT, you write: << Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. Any advice would be much appreciated! >> If you are asking if you can create part of an index in Word and then import it into a dedicated indexing program and combine it with other sections created using the indexing program - that's easy. Yes. If you create a tab delimited file with line breaks you can import it into Cindex. I'm sure Macrex and the others would also read some sort of data file. You have to enter your data in the order of subheads. So: Heading -[tab]- subhead one [tab] subhead two [tab] page [return] Save the file as a *.dat file (tab delimited with line breaks) then use import to get it into the new Cindex. A similar system will work with the old version too. Sorting and flipping headings is done more quickly in the indexing program but for shear data entry this works fine. For real Word indexing by marking the text in a Word document, I can't help you but I'm sure other INDEX-Lers can. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:02:28 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word Kari, My advice would be to forget it and save yourself major frustration. Several months ago I was having a problem with Macrex (due to a very strange indexing project not Macrex) and thought I could complete the index in Word. Fortunately Gail Rhodes, the Macrex guru, came to my rescue but not before I found out how horrible it is to index in Word. I'd look for another solution. Best of luck! Sylvia Coates Kari Miller wrote: > Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an > index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. > Any advice would be much appreciated! > > -- > Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:28:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word In-Reply-To: <199810102049.QAA32720@camel26.mindspring.com> At 02:02 PM 10/10/98 +0000, you wrote: >My advice would be to forget it and save yourself major frustration. >Several months ago I was having a problem with Macrex (due to a very >strange indexing project not Macrex) and thought I could complete the index >in Word. Fortunately Gail Rhodes, the Macrex guru, came to my rescue but >not before I found out how horrible it is to index in Word. I'd look for >another solution. There about 1,200 members in the ASI. The majority (I don't know the exact figures, but I think it's a large percentage) are freelancers. Among all the freelancers in this country and a handful I know across the world, there are about three who willingly use embedded indexing features in programs like Word, FrameMaker, PageMaker, etc. And among that handful, *none* of them work directly in the embedding program. Instead, they create the finished index in dedicated software then tag the source document to match. Even at that, the process takes about twice as long as creting an index solely with dedicated software and their rates are set accordingly. Embedded indexes are found most commonly among in-house indexers who must use what their company provides. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:17:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elizabeth SanMiguel Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word Kari, If you are planning on embedded indexing in Word and the document is over 60 pages long, don't do it. My co-worker and I used to create indexes in Word for training manuals we put together. We used Word because that was all we had. It worked just fine on one or two sections but we were doing 200+ page training manuals with ten or so sections. My co-worker tried compiling the complete index first. It was not a happy day. All of the files corrupted and it didn't even give her an accurate index. Luckily the company we work for backs up the server every night and she managed to get her files back. Actually compiling the index was out of the question. (We went to a seminar and creating effective training manuals and mentioned what happened. A lot of people shook their heads and related a similar stories. 60 seemed to be the magic number. Anything above that forget it.) Because indexing is a small part of our job, we will not get dedicated indexing software anytime soon. We ended up switching to PageMaker because it is easier to lay pages out with it. (Obviously, since it is a page layout program.) It actually has fairly good indexing abilities, considering it is not indexing software. I wouldn't suggest it for anyone who indexes full-time. It works for us on a lot of other levels besides indexing. Anyway, I would think twice about using word for anything other than word processing. Elizabeth -----Original Message----- From: Kari Miller [mailto:karimiller@MINDSPRING.COM] Sent: Saturday, October 10, 1998 2:12 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Indexing and MS Word Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. Any advice would be much appreciated! -- Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:15:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: Indexing and MS Word Kari Miller writes: > Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an > index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. > Any advice would be much appreciated! and Dick Evans writes: > there are about three who willingly use embedded indexing features in > programs like Word, FrameMaker, PageMaker, etc. And among that handful, > *none* of them work directly in the embedding program. Well, Dick, that isn't quite right. I'm one of the weirdos who work directly in Word or FrameMaker to write indexes when the client wants embedded indexes. It's may not be fun, and it may not be pretty, but if that's what the client wants (and many of them do -- for computer-related manuals), then that's what I do! Kari, What particular questions do you have? The user's manual for MS Word or the online Help for Word should help you with the basics. If you're having specific problems or questions, I'll be happy to help. You might also find it helpful to refer to an article that I wrote on Embedded Indexing in MS Word. It was published in STC's Intercom, and ASI's newsletter; the specifics are below. - "Embedded Indexing" INTERCOM, The Magazine of the Society for Technical Communication, April 1998: 8-10. - "Embedded Indexing: What is it and How do I do it?" KeyWords, ASI's newsletter, Jan/Feb 1998: 14-15. You can contact me directly, if you wish, since I get index-l in digest mode, and only see the messages once a day. Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 http://www.asindexing.org <-- Publicity Chair of ASI http://www.stc.org/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG http://members.aol.com/Pmauer <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:23:10 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word In-Reply-To: <199810112014.QAA28508@camel26.mindspring.com> As another weirdo that has done it, let me chime in as well. You can actually index books as large as a thousand pages in Word. You will have gray in your hair, and wrinkles on your face, but it can be done. I have completed tomes as large as 700 pages myself, which is why I can barely put two sentences together anymore. But Dick is right -- I never WRITE the index in the Word software. I always use either indexing software to create the index, or an outside set of macros and ugly tools. Once written and edited, then I input it into the Word files. It's the only way to build a decent index in Word files, since Word does not allow you to see what you are doing easily, and trying to edit the codes is nightmarishly slow. Peg's article is a great overview, and the Word manuals do explain how to do it. The process is not fun, but hey, charge hourly.... You need to ask your client if there is a reason why the index must be embedded. If the book can have its pages set and page numbers assigned, it is much easier to do a standalone index, and then give the author a Word file of the index. If the book is going to be updated or translated, or lots of changes are going to be made, or it is going to be converted to online stuff, maybe there is a reason to embed. But the client should be aware that making changes to the text has an impact on the index codes and often corrupts them. They need to be aware that this is not the simplest way to get an index in their book. Jan Wright At 04:15 PM 10/11/98 EDT, you wrote: >Kari Miller writes: >> Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an >> index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. >> Any advice would be much appreciated! > >and Dick Evans writes: >> there are about three who willingly use embedded indexing features in >> programs like Word, FrameMaker, PageMaker, etc. And among that handful, >> *none* of them work directly in the embedding program. > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Confused by the return e-mail address? Doesn't matter whether you use Jancw@wrightinformation.com OR Jancw@mindspring.com - they will wind up in the same place, as will the URLs below: http://www.wrightinformation.com OR http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 17:40:05 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Miller Subject: Indexing and Word Thank you to all who responded to my inquiry about using Word to create an index. I wasn't very specific about how I was going to use Word, and I'm still not really sure. I am new both to indexing and computers, so a good bit of this is way over my head. The problem is this...a friend who is working on turning a dissertation into a book (of about 200 pages) wants to collaborate with me on creating an index. She wants to be able to have some input (perhaps a great way to end a friendship???) and does not have any indexing software. She is also currently residing in Orlando, and I'm in Atlanta, so meeting in person is out of the question. Her thought was that we could both do embedded indexing on the document, create a file with the index, and email it back and forth to put it together, or mail it on disk. However, after reading some of the emails I got, I'm beginning to think that there is no way that this will work. I think that neither of us know enough about Word to know how it handles indexes. Perhaps the best advice might be to treat this as I would any other client, and either handle the index myself or let her do it on her own! -- Kari Miller ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:35:33 -0700 Reply-To: nkoenig@sprynet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nicholas W. Koenig" Subject: Re: Indexing and Word I have been told by numerous publishers that their authors do their own indexes. The recent thread concerning the difficulty in doing indexes with Word has led me to wonder what all these authors are using to create their indexes. One publisher said their authors were doing these to cut costs, but they must be really pressed for cash if they are using Word instead of hiring a professional indexer. The purchase of dedicated indexing software alone might well cost more than a professionally prepared index. Does anyone know what these authors/do-it-yourself indexers are using? I am just curious. Nick Koenig ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:57:09 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: QUERY: as well as + past tense In-Reply-To: <299877FB40D6D111958E00A0C96FBA441F507B@FINANCE> I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IBM Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by a tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:23:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word I'm a double weirdo regarding this topic -- I'm an author who does his own indexing, and I do that indexing exclusively within Word and FrameMaker. I guess it's because I've been doing it for so long, but I don't find the process painful or fraught with difficulty (IXGen makes FrameMaker indexing much easier). The books I index are computer software and hardware manuals, and the truth of the matter is that that I simply have no other option for creating indexes. The companies that I have worked for would NEVER EVER hire an outside indexer, and in any case creating our indexes with dedicated indexing software would be very inefficient. I convert the FrameMaker manuals to PDF, and the index entries are automatically converted to hypertext links. When I convert MS Word manuals to online help, the embedded entries automatically become search keywords. Are the resulting indexes somewhat less elegant than if they had been prepared by a "real" indexer using dedicated indexing software? Probably. Would I be able to convince my superiors that the additional cost, time, and effort would be worth it? Never. The indexes are adequate for our purposes. John R. Sullivan Stratus Computer > -----Original Message----- > From: Kari Miller [SMTP:karimiller@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Saturday, October 10, 1998 3:12 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Indexing and MS Word > > Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an > index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. > Any advice would be much appreciated! > > -- > Kari Miller > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:26:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense I think the keyboard combination depends on what font you're using. As far as I can tell, for Times New Roman it's Alt+0226. > -----Original Message----- > From: Pam Rider [SMTP:prider@ELECTRICITI.COM] > Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 8:57 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: QUERY: as well as + past tense > > I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IBM > Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by a > tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? > > > Pam Rider > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > prider@electriciti.com > prider@tsktsk.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:34:07 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tony Davies Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense In-Reply-To: <199810121316.GAA23676@raven.prod.itd.earthlink.net> The ASCII character for uppercase a + tilde is 194. For lowercase a + tide it's 227. To put a tilde over a letter in MS-Word, press Ctrl and tilde at the same time (not forgetting that the shift key), then press the key for the character you want accented. Tony Davies Date sent: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:57:09 -0700 Send reply to: "Indexer's Discussion Group" From: Pam Rider Subject: QUERY: as well as + past tense Originally to: COPYEDITING-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IBM > Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by a > tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? > > > Pam Rider > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > prider@electriciti.com > prider@tsktsk.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:36:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense In-Reply-To: <199810121316.JAA17537@mail4.bellsouth.net> The Windows version of this is ALT+227. (Take a look at "Character Map" in your Control Panel.) If you're using WordPerfect, though, the number is different; try CTRL-W. Mike Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Pam Rider |Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 7:57 AM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: QUERY: as well as + past tense | | |I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IBM |Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by a |tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? | | |Pam Rider |Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth |prider@electriciti.com |prider@tsktsk.com | ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:37:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Ogden Organization: Ogden Indexing & Technical Writing Services Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense Pam, The ANSI number is 0227. Karen -- Ogden Indexing & Technical Writing Services http://www.ultranet.com/~kao Pam Rider wrote: > > I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IBM > Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by a > tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? > > Pam Rider > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > prider@electriciti.com > prider@tsktsk.com -- Ogden Indexing & Technical Writing Services http://www.ultranet.com/~kao ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:44:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margie Towery Subject: Authors doing indexes My guess is that authors doing their own indexes are not doing embedded indexes, just using word processing software to key in their entries. I've run into a number of presses that say either that they encourage their authors to do their own indexes or that they hand authors a list of indexers and leave it to them. I think that when authors talk to indexers and find out the cost, many figure they can do it themselves and save that money. They have a great misperception that we should all be paid minimum wages for doing intellectual, analytical work. Sigh. So, I see two areas where ASI (and other indexing orgs) and indexers in general must get busy: we must educate publishers about the benefits of having a well-done, useful index and we must educate authors about the same thing. Getting to these different audiences usually takes different tactics. BTW, of the author-generated indexes I've looked at, about 1 in 20 is a really useful tool. Authors are not the best folks to do the index. They are too close to the work, even though they argue that that is the prime benefit of their doing it, and they don't usually have the time to create a good index, given that they are often proofreading the pages at the same time that the index needs to be created. That educational effort is something that all of us can participate in: ASI, individual members, chapters (talking to local publishers), and SIGs. One of the things that the History/Archaeology SIG has done twice is to provide a free index clinic at a national meeting of historians (Barb Cohen organized both these efforts). That gave us a chance to talk to both a few authors and many publishers. Margie Towery Towery Indexing Service ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:51:07 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: New indexer question Hi everyone: Do indexers ever ask for deposits to begin a project, especially with new clients? Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:57:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Guenther Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense In-Reply-To: <199810121316.JAA16683@carriage.chesco.com> =E3 -- If the first character is what you are needing, the Character Map that is a Windows accessory indicates Alt+0227. At 05:57 AM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IBM >Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by a >tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? > > >Pam Rider >Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth >prider@electriciti.com >prider@tsktsk.com >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:05:57 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense In Windows =E3 is ALT-0227. The LevTech web site has several PDF files you can download or print whic= h has useful character charts for Windows. Dave Ream Leverage Technologies, Inc. Cleveland, OH 440-838-1203 E-mail: DaveReam@LevTechInc.com Web: http://www.LevTechInc.com -----Original Message----- From: Pam Rider To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 9:24 AM Subject: QUERY: as well as + past tense >I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IB= M >Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by= a >tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? > > >Pam Rider >Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth >prider@electriciti.com >prider@tsktsk.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:29:42 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word In-Reply-To: <199810121408.KAA21402@camel9.mindspring.com> The question to ask is not whether they are adequate for your client's purposes, but are they adequate for your client's readers purposes? Ask your client another question - how much money would they save if having a really good index meant one less tech support phone call per day? A good index might cost $1000 - $2000 dollars (costs can vary if the index is embedded and then fine-tuned for online purposes). Estimates I have seen show that a having a tech support person answer a question costs something like $17.00, with salary, bennies, equipment, training, facilities, etc. Your client probably knows exactly how many tech support questions they handle per day, and exactly what that support costs them. (And I would LOVE to hear other figures on that). Okay. Answering one less question per day = a cost savings of over $6000 per year. That's just one question per day. A really good index saves a lot more questions than that. Jan Wright At 09:23 AM 10/12/98 -0400, you wrote: >I'm a double weirdo regarding this topic -- I'm an author who does his own >indexing, and I do that indexing exclusively within Word and FrameMaker. I >guess it's because I've been doing it for so long, but I don't find the >process painful or fraught with difficulty (IXGen makes FrameMaker indexing >much easier). > >The books I index are computer software and hardware manuals, and the truth >of the matter is that that I simply have no other option for creating >indexes. The companies that I have worked for would NEVER EVER hire an >outside indexer, and in any case creating our indexes with dedicated >indexing software would be very inefficient. > >I convert the FrameMaker manuals to PDF, and the index entries are >automatically converted to hypertext links. When I convert MS Word manuals >to online help, the embedded entries automatically become search keywords. > >Are the resulting indexes somewhat less elegant than if they had been >prepared by a "real" indexer using dedicated indexing software? Probably. >Would I be able to convince my superiors that the additional cost, time, and >effort would be worth it? Never. The indexes are adequate for our purposes. > >John R. Sullivan >Stratus Computer > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kari Miller [SMTP:karimiller@MINDSPRING.COM] >> Sent: Saturday, October 10, 1998 3:12 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Indexing and MS Word >> >> Any indexers out there want to give me some advice on how to create an >> index in Word? I have a 'friend' who wants a collaborative index done. >> Any advice would be much appreciated! >> >> -- >> Kari Miller >> > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Confused by the return e-mail address? Doesn't matter whether you use Jancw@wrightinformation.com OR Jancw@mindspring.com - they will wind up in the same place, as will the URLs below: http://www.wrightinformation.com OR http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:37:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients Dawn, I visited your website; and I am interested in becoming an indexer (again). I cut my teeth as an indexer with the Public Affairs Information Service, fresh out of columbia university's library school. at PAIS I assigned subject headings and wrote brief synopses of social science articles, US, UN and European government documents, and various other materials. I worked there about 15 months, got Potomac Fever and high-tailed it to D.C. (my home) having had enough of New York City on a low salary. I enjoy doing indexing; I even did some political databse indexing here in Washington for the last presidential cycle. I am working my way back to the industry. Any information you can render would be greatly appreciated. I would enjoy working at home and keeping my current position (Research Analyst/Librarian at a public relations firm) and see if I can do indexing fulltime when the right job comes. Many thanks, J. Barczak 202-232-3043 or reply this email > -----Original Message----- > From: Dawn Spencer [SMTP:Indexlady@AOL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:50 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: X-Mas Gifts for clients > > In a message dated 10/6/98 8:30:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > > << I am looking for some ideas for X-Mas gifts for giving to clients. >> > > In addition to making sure of the appropriateness of the gift, make sure > it is > a holiday they celebrate. It might mean more if NOT sent a gift. Perhaps > just > a note acknowledging their beliefs, with a note of appreciation of working > with them would be more appropriate in some instances. > > Just a thought. > > Dawn Spencer > CHOICE INDEXING > indexlady@aol.com > http://members.aol.com/indexlady/ > --------------- > Coordinator of the Tennessee Regional Group > of the American Society of Indexers > tennwords@aol.com > http://members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html > --------------- > author of the Indexing topic at Suite 101 > http://www.suite101.com/topics/page.cfm/1019 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:43:48 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Deposits It shouldn't be necessary to get a deposit from a client unless you have some kind of out-of-pocket upfront expense (like a software add-on to accommodate their large files or something), if the client is a reputable one. (I once discussed this with a client, and under the circumstances, they felt it was fair to pay for the upgrade I would have needed to do their project. But the project eventually fell through. I was glad I hadn't gone to the expense of buying the upgrade myself, as I wouldn't have needed this particular upgrade for anything but their project--but if the project had come through, it would have meant several years' work.) On long-term projects, it might be helpful to negotiate partial payments, but I am not sure why that would include a pre-payment. I would question why exactly you are wanting to get a deposit. If it is because you think the client won't pay you, I'd advise looking for a new client. Why bother to do the work if you don't think you'll be paid promptly and fairly? In my opinion, contracting for an index is a bit like buying a pig in a poke--you are only guaranteeing that based on your previous experience you can compile a reasonable index for the client. You can't ABSOLUTELY guarantee you can understand the book, complete the index (illness or family problems might intervene, for example), or that the index will come together for you and be one of your best. So, the client trusts you to compile a satisfactory (and with luck, excellent) index and you trust the client to pay you for doing so. I see the trust that I will be paid as a kind of balance, given that I can't absolutely guarantee that every index is gonna be stellar. (In other words, we each absorb some of the risk involved.) Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:55:03 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Jan wrote: <> In theory, a good index should save some (I think "a lot" is overstating things) tech support questions; in actual practice, I'm afraid it would make little difference. (In any case, my indexes ARE good!) In a previous job I asked several tech support people about what could be done to improve our manuals and thereby cut down on calls. They replied that the manuals were fine -- good TOC, index, navigational aids; content was well organized, clear, and complete. The problem, according to most I spoke with, was that the users were not bothering to even refer to the manual or online help before calling tech support. It was easier for them to pick up the phone -- even though for more than half of the tech support calls we received the answer could be found simply by looking in the documentation. Most of the higher-ups I've dealt with in my tech writing career considered documentation to be something of an afterthought -- trying to convince them to spend an additional $2000 just to prepare an index would be an exercise in futility. Again, the bottom line is that in my situation, doing my own indexes (and doing them as embedded indexes) is the only option. Spending $2000 to re-do the index every time we update a manual would be ludicrous. So-called "dedicated" indexing is appropriate in many disciplines, but in my case it would cost MORE in time and money. John R. Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:14:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Authors doing indexes Margie Twoery wrote: >BTW, of the author-generated indexes I've looked at, about 1 in 20 is a really >useful tool. Authors are not the best folks to do the index. They are too >close to the work, even though they argue that that is the prime benefit of >their doing it, and they don't usually have the time to create a good index, >given that they are often proofreading the pages at the same time that the >index needs to be created. > I have found that often a dead giveaway of an author index is the presence of _both_ over and underindexing. While many professional indexers may sometimes be accused of a tad of overindexing, it is very rare to see a pro indexer do _both_ extensively in the same index; extensively is the key word here: even a pro may have a bad term or two. Typically there will be many terms with long lists of undifferentiated locators, while on many other terms there will be 5-7 subheadings all covering the same 1-2 page section of text! And yes on some terms there will be _both_ many undifferentiated locators and 6 subs from the same page! Surprisingly even with this many author indexes are quite usable. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:22:18 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: Re: Deposits In a message dated 10/12/98 9:47:46 AM EST, BECohen653@AOL.COM writes: << Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN >> Thank you, Barbara, for your very helpful explanation about deposits in indexing. In the business I was in before indexing, it was standard practice to get deposits. But, there were often major expenses involved. Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:45:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense Okay, here's the techie non-indexer jumping. In DOS there is no =E3 character. DOS uses ASCII which is a seven-bit enc= oding scheme for the lower 128 characters of the possible 256 characters in the 8-bit bytes that PCs use. The upper 128 are referred to as the extended D= OS characters. They can be remapped to different subsets but the normal subs= et has some accented letters but not all people need. These are just a de fa= cto standard. In Windows, the ANSI character set is used which is a de jure standard an= d all characters values are always the same character -- at least in an alphabetic font. In symbols and wingdings fonts there are no rules. In a future Windows release, UNICODE will be the character set used. Agai= n a de jure standard but it encodes characters in two 8-bit bytes. This will allow for all fonts to have almost all characters anyone would need excep= t for the ideogrammatic languages such as Chinese. -----Original Message----- From: Tony Davies To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 10:21 AM Subject: Re: QUERY: as well as + past tense >The ASCII character for uppercase a + tilde is 194. For lowercase a >+ tide it's 227. To put a tilde over a letter in MS-Word, press Ctrl >and tilde at the same time (not forgetting that the shift key), then >press the key for the character you want accented. > >Tony Davies > >Date sent: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:57:09 -0700 >Send reply to: "Indexer's Discussion Group" > >From: Pam Rider >Subject: QUERY: as well as + past tense >Originally to: COPYEDITING-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > >> I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/= IBM >> Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped = by a >> tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? >> >> >> Pam Rider >> Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth >> prider@electriciti.com >> prider@tsktsk.com >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:57:01 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Leonard Subject: QUERY:Indexing text with tables Greetings, I'm indexing a book with numerous tables, some of which, appear on the same page along with normal text. My questions: 1. If, for example, Body Mass Index has a page range of 10-13 and there are two tables included (pp. 11 and 13), both of which are surrounded by normal text, should they be indexed as Body Mass Index, 10-13, 11table, 13table ??? 2. Now suppose that Body Mass Index has a page range of 10-13 and one of the two tables occupies an entire page (say p. 13). Which is correct?: Body Mass Index, 10-12, 13(table) OR Body Mass Index, 10-13, 13(table) Thanks ] David Leonard Dover, NH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:54:59 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Deposits Debbie wrote: << Do indexers ever ask for deposits to begin a project, especially with new clients? >> Never with publishers (though on very long projects I've occasionally been offered the option of billing in increments (once a month through the three months of the project was the last arrangement) which I always gratefully accept. When I work directly for authors (i.e. the author, not the publisher, is hiring me) I ask them to pay me approximately half of the fee when the page proofs arrive. (It has to be approximate because I don't know the exact number of pages--I bill based on the publisher's estimate.) None of them has complained about this. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:11:38 -0700 Reply-To: jeanmidd@prodigy.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Middleton Subject: Re: Authors doing indexes I am a student indexer and have yet to do my first professional index. I am interested, however, in the marketing aspects of indexing since I realize that that is of prime importance. My former company is now having layoff after layoff because our Marketing Department has not been successful in selling our products. I am curious to know whether indexers target authors and publications authors subscribe to in their marketing efforts. I should think that might be a good approach, but I'm sure those of you with experience can tell me your ideas. Jean Middleton Riverside, CA jeanmidd@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:24:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Educating authors I remember a few years ago looking at the catalog for extension classess at UCLA and there wes one for new authors that covered such issues as finding publishers, contracts, getting started etc. This type of class might be a good place for indexers or ASI to educate authors about the value of indexers. Roberta Horowitz Snip >That educational effort is something that all of us can participate in: ASI, >individual members, chapters (talking to local publishers), and SIGs. One of >the things that the History/Archaeology SIG has done twice is to provide a >free index clinic at a national meeting of historians (Barb Cohen organized >both these efforts). That gave us a chance to talk to both a few authors and >many publishers. > >Margie Towery >Towery Indexing Service > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:49:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Indexing and MS Word In-Reply-To: Richard Evans "Re: Indexing and MS Word" (Oct 10, 6:28pm) Dick Evans wrote: > There about 1,200 members in the ASI. The majority (I don't know the exact > figures, but I think it's a large percentage) are freelancers. Among all > the freelancers in this country and a handful I know across the world, > there are about three who willingly use embedded indexing features in > programs like Word, FrameMaker, PageMaker, etc. And among that handful, > *none* of them work directly in the embedding program. Instead, they > create the finished index in dedicated software then tag the source > document to match. Even at that, the process takes about twice as long as > creating an index solely with dedicated software and their rates are set > accordingly. Actually, I'm an exception to this rule (as is Peg). I actually think working in FrameMaker isn't such a terrible experience. In fact, I write the indexes directly in Frame, without using index-dedicated software. There are some pitfalls and problems, but overall I have found it to be an easy tool to use. The biggest complaint by anyone who uses embedded indexing tools will tell you is that editing is harder and/or takes longer. This is true. But I *don't* miss the incorrectly typed page numbers. Microsoft Word, however, is one of the worst yet commonly used embedded-index- enabled tools out there. Although it allows you a surprising amount of control when it comes to some of the nitpicky formatting issues -- like choosing the punctuation between entries or within multipart references -- the important stuff was severely ignored during the program's design. Still, it gets used. With all the complaints, why do indexers use embedded indexing tools? Because the client asks for it. Why do the clients ask for it? Because embedded indexing buys them a lot of time and energy on other aspects of the publishing. It's is also a necessary process if the text will be published online or on CD. Although the indexing will suffer (and consequently the heat will rise on index-l), the production time goes *way* down, especially for documents that will be go into future editions. How much the indexes suffer depends party on the publishers' priorities, partly on the tools' limitations, and partly on the indexer. With patience (and for bigger numbers on the invoices), an indexer can create a good product using embedding tools -- provided the tools aren't *too* terrible. Microsoft Word comes close to being terrible when it comes to page ranges and sorting, and editing is more ornery with Word than with other embedding tools, but otherwise Word allows the indexer to do what's necessary. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@oreilly.com) O'Reilly & Associates Focus Information Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02472-2826 <--new zip (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com URL: http://www.oreilly.com/~seth ICQ# 16652316 co-webmaster, Amer Soc of Indexers: http://www.asindexing.org webmaster, STC Indexing SIG: http://www.stc.org/pics/indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:06:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Where do I put the "the"? In indexing the name of a Web page: The Body: A Multimedia Resource, which of the following correctly places the "The." Body, The: A Multimedia Resource Body: A multimedia Resource, The Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:07:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? Dick: I would choose your second choice unless, of course, the publisher has a certain style or follows a certain style guideline (University of Chicago, etc.) rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:13:55 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 10 Oct 1998 to 11 Oct 1998 In a message dated 10/11/98 9:04:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU writes: > The recent thread > concerning the difficulty in doing indexes with Word > has led me to wonder what all these authors are > using to create their indexes. Back in the olden days (like in the early 80's when I did my very first paid index) indexes were often created using 3x5 cards and alphabetic dividers in a shoebox to create the index, then a typewriter (electric if you were lucky!) to type the manuscript. It can still be done that way, for a total investment of about $5 in supplies (plus the typewriter or word processor). Or (like when I had graduated to an Apple IIc with Appleworks) it's possible to create the index in a database program for ease of alphabetization and import the file into a word processor for final output. It does NOT take a $500 computer program and the USDA course to create an index, particularly if it's a once- in-a-lifetime occurrence. On the other hand, neither of these low-cost methods are realistic for making a living as an indexer when publishers consider it generous to allow 2 weeks for indexing a 400 page book. Which is why a beginning indexer's best investment is in the dedicated indexing software of choice. It will pay for itself with your first index. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:20:27 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? In-Reply-To: <199810130106.SAA11578@pacific.net> Dick wrote: >In indexing the name of a Web page: The Body: A Multimedia Resource, which >of the following correctly places the "The." > >Body, The: A Multimedia Resource > >Body: A multimedia Resource, The I would choose the first option, because the colon serves as a natural stop and is the end of the title proper. The part after the colon is a separate function, the subtitle. Each function should stay together. I struggled with this, but did it the A method above; finally Do Mi Stauber and I had a talk about it, in which she could express the theory behind the practice, thus relieving my struggle. --Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:09:33 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Names index I've been asked to do a standard names index, and I just want to be sure that I'm clear on what constitutes "standard"! The basics are obvious, but should I include references to people who are quoted (in some cases extensively) but whose names appear only in the endnotes? Given that one function of a names index is to allow those who have been mentioned or quoted to find themselves (particularly if they are professors considering whether to use a book for class!) I'm inclined to include these. Also, the book in question is a collection of essays by a number of authors. Some of them relate autobiographical information in the course of their essays. There is a page in the end matter which gives brief bios of each of the authors. It seems to me that I should index the biographical material which is given in the actual essays; it's factual, it's about someone, and it's in the text. In order not to offend the other authors, I'm considering indexing the author-bios page as well, so that each author would be listed in the index. Does this make sense, or is it just not done? TIA, Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr., King George, VA 22485 (540) 775-4012 jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:26:31 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Names index In-Reply-To: <199810130320.UAA29722@decibel.electriciti.com> Kara asks excellent questions about author indexe. I index all authors cited--including all authors of et alia [it *is* correct] citations. I look forward to the discussion. But, the question should actually be directed to the publisher, who will likely appreciate her analysis and the courtesy of the query. The older I get, the more I am convinced that most misunderstandings begin with an unasked question. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:11:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Eric D. Darley" Subject: Embedded Index I am a newcomer to both indexing and INDEX-L. What is an embedded index? Eric Darley "Where is the Life we have lost in the living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in the knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in the information?" T.S. Eliot "The Rock" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:27:44 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Guenther Subject: Re: Embedded Index In-Reply-To: <199810131318.JAA25752@carriage.chesco.com> At 09:11 AM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >I am a newcomer to both indexing and INDEX-L. What is an embedded index? >Eric Darley Codes are inserted (embedded) in the document file (the text of the material being indexed) at the point where indexable content is found. The software then generates an index based on what is included in those codes. Work on the index can begin while the text is still fluid. The benefit comes when material is frequently updated or page breaks flow within the text. Regenerating the index should create an new updated index. The disadvantages -- many on this list can share their stories. My experience has been to create the index using dedicated indexing software (SKY, Macrex, CIndex), then have a data entry person place the actual tags after the index vocabulary is refined. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:26:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Eric D. Darley" Subject: John Sullivan on Tech. Support In-Reply-To: <199810121451.KAA07214@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> John: Thanks for your recent reply to Jan's message. I appreciated all of your points, but one in particular is worthy of comment: >The problem, according to most I spoke with, was that the users were not >bothering to even refer to the manual or online help before calling tech >support. It was easier for them to pick up the phone -- even though for more >than half of the tech support calls we received the answer could be found >simply by looking in the documentation. I reached this same conclusion myself a few years ago. Intuitively, that is, without benefit of specific controlled research results, I believe that most system users tend to ignore software documentation and instead reach for the phone. Many users have either been frustrated by poorly written or designed manuals, or have heard the many documentation horror stories that pass around. But, the more tech writers and indexers commit to producing user-friendly, comprehensive, and ultimately searchable documentation, the tide may turn. Eric Eric Darley "Where is the Life we have lost in the living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in the knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in the information?" T.S. Eliot "The Rock" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:34:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Subject: Re: Embedded Index I've worked at law firms that use this for footnotes. Is this the same thing? > -----Original Message----- > From: Nancy Guenther [SMTP:nanguent@CHESCO.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 9:28 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Embedded Index > > At 09:11 AM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I am a newcomer to both indexing and INDEX-L. What is an embedded index? > >Eric Darley > > Codes are inserted (embedded) in the document file (the text of the > material being indexed) at the point where indexable content is found. The > software then generates an index based on what is included in those codes. > Work on the index can begin while the text is still fluid. The benefit > comes when material is frequently updated or page breaks flow within the > text. Regenerating the index should create an new updated index. > > The disadvantages -- many on this list can share their stories. > > My experience has been to create the index using dedicated indexing > software (SKY, Macrex, CIndex), then have a data entry person place the > actual tags after the index vocabulary is refined. > > > Nancy Guenther > nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:36:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Subject: Re: John Sullivan on Tech. Support Having worked in tech support, (Not any longer mind you) I was never one to chastise a user for calling tech support, since I have myself encoutered user manuals written most likely by someone not familiar with the English language (I.e. the application programmers) ... But because of the setup of most online user help desks, one must reach a "quota" and will be limited to speaking on the phone for a short period of time. Sad, but true. MJB (*Make mine a Harvey Keitel*) ... > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric D. Darley [SMTP:edd23@DREXEL.EDU] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 9:27 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: John Sullivan on Tech. Support > > John: > > Thanks for your recent reply to Jan's message. I appreciated all of your > points, but one in particular is worthy of comment: > > >The problem, according to most I spoke with, was that the users were not > >bothering to even refer to the manual or online help before calling tech > >support. It was easier for them to pick up the phone -- even though for > more >than half of the tech support calls we received the answer could be > found >simply by looking in the documentation. > > I reached this same conclusion myself a few years ago. Intuitively, that > is, without benefit of specific controlled research results, I believe > that > most system users tend to ignore software documentation and instead reach > for the phone. Many users have either been frustrated by poorly written > or > designed manuals, or have heard the many documentation horror stories that > pass around. > But, the more tech writers and indexers commit to producing user-friendly, > comprehensive, and ultimately searchable documentation, the tide may turn. > > Eric > > > > > Eric Darley "Where is the Life we have lost in the living? > Where is the wisdom we have lost in the knowledge? > Where is the knowledge we have lost in the > information?" > T.S. Eliot > "The Rock" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:43:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? In-Reply-To: <199810130219.WAA12166@mail3.bellsouth.net> Interesting... See, I do it just the opposite -- on the theory that the whole title is a single unit and ought not to be interrupted in the middle. Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds |-----Original Message----- |From: Indexer's Discussion Group |[mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Victoria Baker |Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 9:20 PM |To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L |Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? | | |Dick wrote: |>In indexing the name of a Web page: The Body: A Multimedia Resource, which |>of the following correctly places the "The." |> |>Body, The: A Multimedia Resource |> |>Body: A multimedia Resource, The | |I would choose the first option, because the colon serves as a natural stop |and is the end of the title proper. The part after the colon is a separate |function, the subtitle. Each function should stay together. I struggled |with this, but did it the A method above; finally Do Mi Stauber and I had a |talk about it, in which she could express the theory behind the practice, |thus relieving my struggle. | |--Victoria | |vbaker@pacific.net | ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:49:13 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debra Lindblom Subject: ? re: titles/authors I am indexing a legal book for consumers with many titles and authors within the subject index. I'm not sure how to handle the following. Your guidance would be appreciated: When there is a title with multiple authors written as John Smith et al. (apparently with more than three authors), should I list the title as: Your Right to Privacy (Smith et al.) or is (Smith) enough? Thank you for your help, Debbie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:58:26 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? In-Reply-To: <199810131350.GAA09365@decibel.electriciti.com> >|Dick asked about: >|>In indexing the name of a Web page: The Body: A Multimedia Resource, which >|>of the following correctly places the "The." >|> >|>Body, The: A Multimedia Resource >|> >|>Body: A multimedia Resource, The >| Taking a lead from search engines for the Library of Congress and others, I "lose" the "the" and have as entries Body: A Multimedia Resource (website) I suspect it is a very rare index user who would search under "The." I sometimes begin an entry with an adjective, but never an article. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:14:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Caroline Parks Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? Interestingly, I don't think I've ever been faced with this one -- but my initial reaction to the question was that I would include the entire title as it is ("_The_ Body: A Multimedia Resource"), but ignore the "The" and *alphabetize* it under "Body". Am I way off base here? Caroline Pam wrote: >Taking a lead from search engines for the Library of Congress and others, I >"lose" the "the" and have as entries > >Body: A Multimedia Resource (website) > >I suspect it is a very rare index user who would search under "The." I >sometimes begin an entry with an adjective, but never an article. >Pam Rider __________________________________________________________ | | Caroline Parks -- Indexcellence | | Indexing services for Books, Technical documents, | Software documentation, and Online help systems | | Tijeras, NM | 505-286-2738 | cparks@mindspring.com | | "Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim." |_________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:33:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Back Pain: quick info The subject of back pain has come up many times on Index-L in various contexts like ergonomic chairs, etc.. For anyone interested or suffering there is an article in the Aug 98 Scientific American on low back pain. It is the most lucid summary article on the subject I've ever seen. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:34:40 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? In-Reply-To: <199810131426.HAA10224@decibel.electriciti.com> At 08:14 AM 10/13/98 -0600, Caroline wrote: > ("_The_ Body: > A >Multimedia Resource"), but ignore the "The" and *alphabetize* it under "Body". > Am I way >off base here? > Absolutely not. Great choice! Unfortunately, I have dealt with a proofreader who "fixed" such alphabetization. I understand there's now a standing order to query me about such things, but I admit to being leery about the process. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:02:31 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Leonard Subject: QUERY:Reference-locator format for pages containing both text & tables Greetings, I'm indexing a nutrition book with numerous tables, some of which, appear on the same page along with normal text. My questions: 1. If, for example, the main heading *Body Mass Index* has a page range of 10-13 and there are two tables included (pp. 11 and 13), both of which are surrounded by normal text, should they be indexed as Body Mass Index, 10-13, 11(table), 13(table) ??? 2. Now suppose that Body Mass Index has a page range of 10-13 and one of the two tables occupies an entire page (say p. 13). Which is correct?: Body Mass Index, 10-12, 13(table) OR Body Mass Index, 10-13, 13(table) Thanks ] David Leonard Dover, NH ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:13:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? I like to leave the "The" at the front and ignore it in sorting. To me, that looks the most natural. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:21:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: QUERY:Reference-locator format for pages containing both text & tables David: That's an interesting point about indexing tables. All my clients have requested that I do not index the tables, graphs, etc., because they have a list of them in the beginning of the book. rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:51:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? Caroline wrote: >Interestingly, I don't think I've ever been faced with this one -- but my > initial reaction >to the question was that I would include the entire title as it is ("_The_ Body: > A >Multimedia Resource"), but ignore the "The" and *alphabetize* it under "Body". > Am I way >off base here? > That's exactly how I've been doing it since reading a post on here about a year ago from someone who handled it that way; I can't remember who wrote it (maybe it was Pam!). The inverted form requires an extra mental step to create the natural language form of the term, and I think an argument could certainly be made and defended that this impacts ease of use, however minor. Funny, when we do chemistry indexes we write m-Xylene (ignoring the m in alphabetizing) and not Xylene, m- If natural language holds sway there, why not in this case? Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:26:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? > Interestingly, I don't think I've ever been faced with this one -- but my > initial reaction > to the question was that I would include the entire title as it is ("_The_ Body: > A > Multimedia Resource"), but ignore the "The" and *alphabetize* it under "Body". > Am I way > off base here? > > Caroline No, you're not off base; that's a good solution if the publisher allows it. OTOH, I have at least one publisher who requires that the "The" be placed behind the title, which would leave me in the same dilemma as the original poster. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr., King George, VA 22485 (540) 775-3012 jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:35:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: QUERY:Reference-locator format for pages containing both text &tables David Leonard wrote: > I'm indexing a nutrition book with numerous tables, some of which, appear > on the same page along with normal text. My questions: > > 1. If, for example, the main heading *Body Mass Index* has a page range of > 10-13 and there are two tables included (pp. 11 and 13), both of which are > surrounded by normal text, should they be indexed as > > Body Mass Index, 10-13, 11(table), 13(table) ??? > > 2. Now suppose that Body Mass Index has a page range of 10-13 and one of > the two tables occupies an entire page (say p. 13). Which is correct?: > > Body Mass Index, 10-12, 13(table) OR > Body Mass Index, 10-13, 13(table) In answer to your first question, I'd say yes, include the table pages separately if at all possible. Doing so is more precise and therefore, more helpful to the reader. What if they don't want to read about the topic, but simply look up their own BMI? For the second example, I would go with your first option [10-12, 13(table).] If p. 13 included no text other than the table, it doesn't make sense to include it in the page range, since the table is already listed on its own. Of course, if your publisher prefers that you not "tag" tables, but simply list them as text, then you would include the table in the page range. Kara Pekar Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr., King George VA 22485 (540) 775-4072 jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:42:14 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: QUERY:Reference-locator format for pages containing both text & tables In-Reply-To: <199810131523.LAA05004@camel26.mindspring.com> That's kind of my response as well. If the tables are on the same page, I do not make separate entries for them unless specifically requested to list all tables by the client. I feel it really clutters an index and makes it harder to read and use, especially if the material is "right there." If the material is not right there, but is later on, or separated, then I start worrying about it. Jan Wright At 10:21 AM 10/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >David: > > That's an interesting point about indexing tables. All my clients >have requested that I do not index the tables, graphs, etc., because >they have a list of them in the beginning of the book. > > rob > fugleman@mindspring.com > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Confused by the return e-mail address? Doesn't matter whether you use Jancw@wrightinformation.com OR Jancw@mindspring.com - they will wind up in the same place, as will the URLs below: http://www.wrightinformation.com OR http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:40:04 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: Re: Tech. Support & Manual Use John Sullivan notes: >The problem, according to most I spoke with, was that the users were not >bothering to even refer to the manual or online help before calling tech >support. It was easier for them to pick up the phone -- even though for >more >than half of the tech support calls we received the answer could be >found >simply by looking in the documentation. Lack of using the documentation may also have something to do with lack of access to said documentation. At my former office in a university, we were on the campus-wide network: hundreds of users but only one set of manuals in the network administrator's office. The online help was sometimes useful, sometimes not. When we called for assistance to the tech support people on campus, we usually had to queue for several hours, days, or, yes, even weeks, to get a simple answer. Department heads who faced budget cuts were loathe to lay out any departmental cash for additional software documentation. In these instances it is easier to make the call to tthe product tech support office. Long distance charges were in the budget; software manuals were not. And, if there was a fee for the tech service, it usually ended up on the network administrator's budget. That was three years ago, and from what I hear, the situation hasn't changed much; however the level of general knowledge about various software packages itself has risen. Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:07:51 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lillian Ashworth Subject: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail Hi All - More and more, I'm running into voice mail messages when I make cold calls. No matter what message I may leave, it doesn't get a return call. I'm guessing that at least in some cases, people who are busy, but at their desks, simply ignore the telephone. And when they do retrieve their messages, returning a "cold" marketing inquiry call receives a very low priority. How do others handle this problem? Lillian Ashworth ashworth@pullman.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:37:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Tech. Support & Manual Use In-Reply-To: <199810131733.NAA12308@camel16.mindspring.com> At 10:40 AM 10/13/98 -0700, John Sullivan wrote: > >>The problem, according to most I spoke with, was that the users were not >>bothering to even refer to the manual or online help before calling tech >>support. It was easier for them to pick up the phone -- even though for >>more >than half of the tech support calls we received the answer could be >>found >simply by looking in the documentation. The question I would ask is did they try the documentation at least once in their history of using the product? I always refer to the documentation first, but if I don't find answers to what I consider simple questions, I never use the book again and call tech support. When I was doing usability studies on indexes for telecommunications manuals, the most common complaint was that the information was usually in the book but indexed under some term the reader was not familiar with. Therefore, what can be found by "simply looking in the documentation" can vary widely, depending on the vocabulary of the person who is looking. Thus, you end up with a circular argument: The indexes are inadequate, so people don't use them and we don't need to improve the indexes because nobody uses them. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:27:05 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? Caroline wrote: >Interestingly, I don't think I've ever been faced with this one -- but my > initial reaction to the question was that I would include the entire title as it is ("_The_ Body: A Multimedia Resource"), but ignore the "The" and *alphabetize* it under "Body". Am I way off base here? >> This is a publisher decision almost always! I ask them if they want titles with articles inverted or not. I personally prefer Caroline's way (not inverted, but ignoring the article in alphabetization), so if they ask me my opinion, that's what they get! But most of them want it inverted, and then we're faced with the subtitle issue. I invert the main title and then follow it with the subtitle (Body, The: A Multimedia Resource) because there is a logic to it (keeping the main title together), and it can look SO silly the other way. Nobody's ever complained. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:57:10 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: QUERY:Reference-locator format for pages containing both text ... The question was: should a separate locator for information in tables be included, and if so, what should it look like? Like inverted titles, this is a decision that is usually made by the publisher. Ask your client what they want (and have your opinion ready in case they don't know). If it's left to me (rare), I tend to treat tables as another page of text rather than specifying them out, depending on the text and whether I think a reader would be specifically looking for a table. My reasoning: the locators get awfully messy if you have a lot of tables and make separate locators for them. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:35:25 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Organization: W W Walker Web Development Subject: [Fwd: journals to give away] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------34E9BA890749298968B193A8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a gift! 30 years of paper journals (about paper - and on paper for that matter ...) -- -------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker WWWalker Web Development, PO Box 288, Wentworthville, Sydney, 2145, Australia http://www.wwwalker.com.au, http://www.speakeasy.org/~dwight (US mirror) tel +61-2-98960286, mob +61-412-405727, fax +61-2-97772058 ICQ No. 4631678, handle: wwwalker (www.mirabilis.com) --------------34E9BA890749298968B193A8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail for dwight with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.14 1997/04/11) Wed Oct 14 11:56:41 1998 X-From_: niac-l@nla.gov.au Wed Oct 14 11:32:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: from eve.speakeasy.org (root@eve.speakeasy.org [206.191.160.33]) by mail.zip.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22550 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:32:17 +1000 Received: from email.nla.gov.au (email.nla.gov.au [192.102.239.3]) by eve.speakeasy.org (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA11916 for ; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (localhost.nla.gov.au [127.0.0.1]) by email.nla.gov.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA20021 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:31:43 +1000 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:31:43 +1000 Message-Id: <81B79752B7DAD1119FB900805FD6BA7F0E2622@res2f249> Errors-To: niac@nla.gov.au Reply-To: niac-l@nla.gov.au Originator: niac-l@nla.gov.au Sender: niac-l@nla.gov.au Precedence: bulk From: John Trewick To: dwight@speakeasy.org Subject: RE: journals to give away X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas The water journals have gone, the ones I really want a home for are the paper journals - NLA interested or the State Library's of Victoria or Tasmania? John Trewick Amcor R&T > Due to a critical shortage of space, the following journals are offered free of charge (excluding postage). Preference will be given to offers for the complete sets. > > Paper Trade Journal 1922-1986 [ceased] > Paper Industry 1919-1942 > The Papermaker 1930-1970 > Japan Pulp and Paper 1963-1980 > Das Papier 1947-1971 [in German] > Holzforschung 1962-1992 [some issues missing] > Jnl Water Pollution Control Federation 1978-1990 > Water Research 1976-1990 > > > John Trewick > Information Services > Amcor Research and Technology > phone 03-94906120 fax 03-94996019 > email john.trewick@amcor.com.au --------------34E9BA890749298968B193A8-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:12:09 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: et alia (again) Pam Rider writes: "I index all authors cited--including all authors of et alia [it *is* correct] citations." Please give your authority for claiming that "et alia" is correct as the expansion of "et al." in bibliographical references and citations. I pointed out some months ago that it is wrong. The Oxford Writers' Dictionary expands "et al." as "et alii". So does the Penguin Dictionary for Writers and Editors (for this bibliographical sense). Judith Butcher in her Copy-Editing: The Cambridge Handbook for Editors, Authors and Publishers (3rd edn) points out that if all the joint authors of a work are female, then the abbreviation should be expanded as "et aliae". The New Shorter OED gives three expansions: "et alii" (masculine plural), "et aliae" (feminine plural), and "et alia" (neuter plural). Thus anyone who knows any Latin understands that "et alia" means "and other things", just as "inter alia" means "among other things". Books and articles are not written by Bloggs (say) "and other things". (Though, come to think of it, an author's indebtedness to various mechanical and electronic aids might, I suppose, deserve some recognition. Perhaps indexers, especially, ought make public acknowledgement of the indexing software they use?) Simon Cauchi Freelance Editor and Indexer 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile (+64) 7-854-9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:25:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sindexer@AOL.COM Subject: Re: QUERY:Indexing text with tables Hi, In indexing medical and scientific books, I always cite the entire page range for text, and then also cite the tables, even if a table takes a whole page. I figure more is better. I would do it Body mass index, 10-13, 11t, 13t indcating that body mass index is discussed on 10-13, and on 11 and 13 there are tables relating it. Many times the tables just reinforce what is cited in the text,but I still think it is important to give table citations. Most publishers that I work for and authors seem to agree with this. Sally Lawther ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:16:56 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sullivan, John" Subject: Sort order for abbreviations I checked the Chicago Manual but can't seem to get a definitive answer on this -- how would the following entries (either index or bibliographic) sort? And why? ABC A.B.C. A B C John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:10:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: et alia (again) In-Reply-To: <199810140519.WAA03590@decibel.electriciti.com> Et al. is synomyous with et alia in Merriam Websters Collegiate Dictionary (10th), the Blue book system of legal citation, I have been included on numerous et alia (et al.) legal lists as a defendant for civil disobedience. Likely, it's a UK-USA thing. I also put all punctation except semicolons and colons inside closing quotes, spell with more zeds than UK folks and handle agreement of group nouns differently. I was taught that the UK ways are wrong. My teachers were wrong in that the USA way is the only route. It just happens to be the only way I handle material for this market. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:08:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Gwenavere G. White" Please subscribe INDEX-L Gwenavere G. White ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:21:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Please DO NOT reply to me .. I am not the INDEX-L daemon! Thanks, MJB > -----Original Message----- > From: Gwenavere G. White [SMTP:m1ggw00@FRB.GOV] > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 10:08 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: > > Please subscribe INDEX-L Gwenavere G. White ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:28:05 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "W. Nadine Kruger" Maybe she needs directions on how to subscribe?? -----Original Message----- From: Gwenavere G. White To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 8:21 AM >Please subscribe INDEX-L Gwenavere G. White > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:49:30 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "W. Nadine Kruger" Subject: Freelancing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A7_01BDF74F.8EEFD000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'm new to the list, so my questions may be repetitious or remedial. :) = Anyway, I am currently working at home as an indexer for a company that = is building a database of imports/exports using the harmonic code. But = that is neither here nor there. What I'm wondering is this.... this = perfect job may not last forever. I didn't have to "drum up" any = business for it, so the prospect of the project ever ending scares me. = What to do? I would love any suggestions from list subscribers as to = how to find freelance work. What are the best courses of action to = take? How do you get leads and, subsequently, follow them? (Elementary = questions, but since I have always been "employed" by a company I've = never had to rough it that way. Actually, I'm still technically an = independent contractor--but I get paid by the hour.)=20 Thanks for your input!! Nadine Kruger ------=_NextPart_000_01A7_01BDF74F.8EEFD000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
I'm new to the = list, so my=20 questions may be repetitious or remedial.  :)  Anyway, I am = currently=20 working at home as an indexer for a company that is building a database = of=20 imports/exports using the harmonic code.  But that is neither here = nor=20 there. What I'm wondering is this.... this perfect job may not last=20 forever.  I didn't have to "drum up" any business for it, = so the=20 prospect of the project ever ending scares me.  What to do?  I = would=20 love any suggestions from list subscribers as to how to find freelance=20 work.  What are the best courses of action to take?  How do = you get=20 leads and, subsequently, follow them?  (Elementary questions, but = since I=20 have always been "employed" by a company I've never had to = rough it=20 that way.  Actually, I'm still technically an independent = contractor--but I=20 get paid by the hour.)
 
Thanks for = your=20 input!!

Nadine Kruger
 
------=_NextPart_000_01A7_01BDF74F.8EEFD000-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:05:18 +0100 Reply-To: jill@bznet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jill L Organization: Jill Lasker Subject: QUERY:Brushing Up Hi all, After about 15 years of editing and writing, I find myself missing Indexing! Would you offer some advice about brushing up on creaky skills? - I remember hearing about indexing courses; where would I find more information? - What is the current range for hourly/page rates for general and medical indexing? - Any consensus on the best indexing programs for the Mac? Or what are the top 2 programs for the Mac? And, how's this for a general question: - Has there been an overall change in philosophy, approach, or depth of indexing? Hope I'm not asking for too much as a newbie. I'd appreciate your input. Thanks, Jill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:04:35 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rosalind Lund Subject: Re: Where do I put the "the"? In-Reply-To: <908240782.2128770.0@listserv.cuny.edu> In article <908240782.2128770.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, Richard Evans writes >In indexing the name of a Web page: The Body: A Multimedia Resource, which >of the following correctly places the "The." > >Body, The: A Multimedia Resource > >Body: A multimedia Resource, The > My computer system happily ignores "The" at the front of titles if I wish, but as an index user I find "The" in front of the title simply distracting and would prefer just to go into "Body". My publishers however seem to prefer to have the title as on the cover of the book. You just can't win I in this world! -- Rosalind Lund 1 Arbury Road Cambridge CB4 2JB England email : rosalind@lundboox.demon.co.uk Catalogue on the Web: http://www.lundboox.demon.co.uk/ Phone +44 (0)1223 565303 Fax +44 (0)1223 565206 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:47:49 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: Sort order for abbreviations I would sort ABC A B C A.B.C. because I would sort no spaces spaces punctuation in that order. Barbara E. Cohen Indianapolis, IN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:57:31 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: Sort order for abbreviations In a message dated 98-10-14 09:23:02 EDT, John wrote: << how would the following entries (either index or bibliographic) sort? And why? ABC A.B.C. A B C >> Deal with the "why" first and the order sorts itself. If you use the librarian's credo, nothing comes before something, then it sorts A B C A.B.C ABC Space (nothing) comes before the period and no space (both are something). The period comes before no space because it means stop, take a breath by filling your lung space. So the somethings file as period-space-letter and letter- letter. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:04:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: QUERY:Indexing text with tables Hi, Sally, Do you do this if there is a list of tables included at the beginning of the book? Thanks. Toni > -----Original Message----- > From: Sindexer@AOL.COM [SMTP:Sindexer@AOL.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 1:25 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: QUERY:Indexing text with tables > > Hi, > > In indexing medical and scientific books, I always cite the entire > page range > for text, and then also cite the tables, even if a table takes a whole > page. > I figure more is better. I would do it > > Body mass index, 10-13, 11t, 13t > > indcating that body mass index is discussed on 10-13, and on 11 and 13 > there > are tables relating it. Many times the tables just reinforce what is > cited in > the text,but I still think it is important to give table citations. > > Most publishers that I work for and authors seem to agree with this. > > Sally Lawther ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:34:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Lightfoot Subject: QUERY: as well as + past tense -------------------- Begin Original Message -------------------- Message text written by "Indexer's Discussion Group" "I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IB= M Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by = a tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? Pam Rider" -------------------- End Original Message -------------------- On a Macintosh you simply type Option n then a. Sue ------------------------------------------------------------- Sue Lightfoot =AD Indexing, Proofreading Tremorva, Talland Hill, Polperro, Cornwall PL13 2RZ, England Tel/Fax: 01503 273006 Email: SLightfoot@compuserve.com ------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:37:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephanie Willen Brown Subject: database indexing question Hi, everyone. I have an indexing question that I'd like some help with - if possible! (I posted this to the newslib mailing list last week & got a suggestion to post it here, too) I'm a news librarian & getting ready to install a new text & photo archive. We have over 450,000 stories and about 100,000 (?) pictures to index. We currently have a keyword list of about 300 words which is badly in need of revision - this list is used for the current text archive. I've pulled a few keyword lists off the SLA site, and my questions are these: 1. Would you use the same keywords for a text and photo database? I would think not, since the concepts needing description are diferent. On the other hand, is it confusing for reporters, etc. to have 2 diff. keyword lists? 2. Does anyone know of any literature about _creating_ keyword lists? It's a daunting task, but I want to keep the list short (20-300 words; a big range, of course) - and the terms need to be useful to *my* newspaper. I've got lots of copies of other newspapers' lists (see URL below), but I'm really interested in figuring out what questions to ask when I'm _creating_ a list from scratch. (fyi, the text keywords are at http://sunsite.unc.edu/slanews/terms/enhance.html; photo keywords are at http://sunsite.unc.edu/slanews/conferences/sla1998/photokeywords.html) Many thank, in advance, for any comments or ideas. + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + Stephanie Willen Brown | So here are the questions: Library Director | Is time long or is it wide? Springfield _Union-News_ | And the answers? Sometimes the answers 413.788.1151 (voice) | just come in the mail. 413.788.1301 (fax) | -Laurie Anderson mailto:swbrown@javanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:00:40 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: A with tilde The original message does not indicate what software is being used. If in Windows, you can always go to Accessories - Character Map, choose a font, and click on the character. In the lower right hand corner will be something like "Alt+0227". This means hold down the alt key and type 0227 ON THE NUMBER PAD. Repeat - type the number ON THE NUMBER PAD. Alt+0227 will get you a small a with a tilde, and Alt+0195 will get the A with tilde. Not all of these are the same for all fonts, but these particular characters, and most of the standard ASCII character set, seem to be pretty consistent between fonts. If you don't have the character map available, it probably was not installed when you set up Windows. You need to go to Control Panel - Add/Remove Programs. Choose the Windows Setup tab, click on Accessories, click on the Details button. If the character map is not checked off, check it, then say OK. The computer will prompt you for your Windows installation CD (maybe disk?) and install it. This is handy to have for reference. You can also do a copy/paste, but I prefer the keycodes. Iris Paul Lightfoot wrote: > -------------------- Begin Original Message -------------------- > > Message text written by "Indexer's Discussion Group" > > "I have another plea for folks with more extensive references on ASCII/IB= > M > Extended Characters than I. I need to index a name with an "a" topped by = > a > tilde. Anyone have access to the keyboard combination for this? > > Pam Rider" > > -------------------- End Original Message -------------------- > > On a Macintosh you simply type Option n then a. > > Sue > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > Sue Lightfoot =AD Indexing, Proofreading > Tremorva, Talland Hill, Polperro, Cornwall PL13 2RZ, England > Tel/Fax: 01503 273006 > Email: SLightfoot@compuserve.com > ------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:27:09 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail Hi Lillian, I read your post about marketing calls with quite interest. I had the same problem with the publishers and they never returned the call whenever I left the message on their voice mail. Not even a single publisher has ever taken the pains to return my calls. Now I *never* leave any message on the voice mail. I keep on calling the publishers until I literally get them on the phone. I do not give up. From my phone bill, it is clear to me that sometimes I had called the publisher 10-15 times and finally I got him/her. I do not know about you, but this is the only method I have found working for me. Good luck with your marketing calls. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services Sterling, VA >From owner-index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Tue Oct 13 11:03:33 1998 >Received: from listserv (listserv.cuny.edu) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.FE9E9399@listserv.cuny.edu>; Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:05:02 -0400 >Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:07:51 -0700 >Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group >From: Lillian Ashworth >Subject: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail >X-To: index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >Hi All - > >More and more, I'm running into voice mail messages when I make cold calls. >No matter what message I may leave, it doesn't get a return call. I'm >guessing that at least in some cases, people who are busy, but at their >desks, simply ignore the telephone. And when they do retrieve their >messages, returning a "cold" marketing inquiry call receives a very low >priority. > >How do others handle this problem? > >Lillian Ashworth >ashworth@pullman.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:48:17 -0400 Reply-To: editink@istar.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Heather Ebbs Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: A with tilde On my windows keypad, ALT+198 is lowercase a with tilde; ALT+199 is uppercase. If the person with the problem requires alternative characters very often, it might be a good idea simply to type up your own key. It doesn't take very long at all simply to hold down your ALT key and start trying the different combos, beginning with ALT+128. Then you could print out your own key and keep it with your other refs. Heather Ebbs editink@istar.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:46:18 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sven Wair Subject: Re: et alia 'et alia' refers to other things 'et alii' to other people. to further muddy waters, 'et al' also stands for 'et alibi', meaning 'and elsewhere', referring, over course, to references within documents. Sven M. Wair 17, Cedars Road, Colchester, Essex, CO2 7BS. Fax & Tel: 01206 563 824 email: svwa@globalnet.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:37:34 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Iris B. Ailin-Pyzik" Subject: Re: A with tilde All I get for ALT+198 and ALT+199 is a broken vertical bar (=A6), in eith= er my e-mail software or Microsoft Word. Note that something like ALT+0227 requires you to type the zero. Iris Heather Ebbs wrote: > On my windows keypad, ALT+198 is lowercase a with tilde; ALT+199 is > uppercase. If the person with the problem requires alternative > characters very often, it might be a good idea simply to type up your > own key. It doesn't take very long at all simply to hold down your ALT > key and start trying the different combos, beginning with ALT+128. Then > you could print out your own key and keep it with your other refs. > Heather Ebbs > editink@istar.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:37:07 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley Subject: Re: QUERY:Indexing text with tables From Christine Headley Yes. You want all the information in the same place, and don't want readers jumping from front to back to find what they want. In the front the information is an adjunct to the Table of Contents, in the back it's part of the index. -----Original Message----- From: Toni Williams TPG/SG To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: 14 October 1998 17:07 Subject: Re: QUERY:Indexing text with tables >Hi, Sally, > Do you do this if there is a list of tables included at the >beginning of the book? Thanks. > >Toni > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sindexer@AOL.COM [SMTP:Sindexer@AOL.COM] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 1:25 PM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Re: QUERY:Indexing text with tables >> >> Hi, >> >> In indexing medical and scientific books, I always cite the entire >> page range >> for text, and then also cite the tables, even if a table takes a whole >> page. >> I figure more is better. I would do it >> >> Body mass index, 10-13, 11t, 13t >> >> indcating that body mass index is discussed on 10-13, and on 11 and 13 >> there >> are tables relating it. Many times the tables just reinforce what is >> cited in >> the text,but I still think it is important to give table citations. >> >> Most publishers that I work for and authors seem to agree with this. >> >> Sally Lawther Stroud, Glos ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:46:52 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail But what do you do if the phone is always answered electronically? Toni > -----Original Message----- > From: Manjit Sahai [SMTP:ramindexing@HOTMAIL.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 7:27 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail > > Hi Lillian, > > I read your post about marketing calls with quite interest. I had the > same problem with the publishers and they never returned the call > whenever I left the message on their voice mail. Not even a single > publisher has ever taken the pains to return my calls. > > Now I *never* leave any message on the voice mail. I keep on calling > the > publishers until I literally get them on the phone. I do not give up. > From my phone bill, it is clear to me that sometimes I had called > the publisher 10-15 times and finally I got him/her. > > I do not know about you, but this is the only method I have found > working for me. > > Good luck with your marketing calls. > > Manjit K. Sahai > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:27:11 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail I have had the same experience over the years, and therefore don't make marketing phone calls ("cold" calls). I use a mail approach and figure that my letter and resume will end up in somebody's file and be there when they need me, even if they don't respond at first. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:41:56 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail In-Reply-To: <199810141830.LAA03723@ixmail9.ix.netcom.com> What I do to avoid calling a dozen or more times is to ask the secretary or receptionist when the person will be in the office and available for my call. This does help reduce the number of calls to reach the editor. At 11:27 AM 10/14/98 PDT, you wrote: >Hi Lillian, > >I read your post about marketing calls with quite interest. I had the >same problem with the publishers and they never returned the call >whenever I left the message on their voice mail. Not even a single >publisher has ever taken the pains to return my calls. > >Now I *never* leave any message on the voice mail. I keep on calling the >publishers until I literally get them on the phone. I do not give up. >>From my phone bill, it is clear to me that sometimes I had called >the publisher 10-15 times and finally I got him/her. > >I do not know about you, but this is the only method I have found >working for me. > >Good luck with your marketing calls. > >Manjit K. Sahai >RAM Indexing Services >Sterling, VA >>From owner-index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu Tue Oct 13 11:03:33 1998 >>Received: from listserv (listserv.cuny.edu) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP >for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <1.FE9E9399@listserv.cuny.edu>; Tue, >13 Oct 1998 14:05:02 -0400 >>Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:07:51 -0700 >>Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group > >>Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group > >>From: Lillian Ashworth >>Subject: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail >>X-To: index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu >>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >> >>Hi All - >> >>More and more, I'm running into voice mail messages when I make cold >calls. >>No matter what message I may leave, it doesn't get a return call. I'm >>guessing that at least in some cases, people who are busy, but at their >>desks, simply ignore the telephone. And when they do retrieve their >>messages, returning a "cold" marketing inquiry call receives a very low >>priority. >> >>How do others handle this problem? >> >>Lillian Ashworth >>ashworth@pullman.com >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > Linda Kenny Sloan indexer@ix.netcom.com ******************************************* Information Universe Editorial services for the aerospace and astronomy communities http://informationuniverse.com ************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:53:11 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Efthimis Efthimiadis Subject: D.Levy ISI-Lazerow lecturer at SLIS-UW Seattle The University of Washington's School of Library and Information Science proudly presents this year's distinguished Samuel Lazerow lecturer: Dr. David Levy, researcher at Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC). Dr. Levy will deliver a lecture entitled: "The Universe is Expanding: Reflections on the Social (and Cosmic) Significance of Documents in a Digital Age" The lecture is free and will be followed by a reception. Date: Tuesday, October 20th Time: 4:00 pm Place: U.W. Student Union Building (HUB) Room 209A Abstract of lecture: It was not so many years ago that television was thought to signal the death of text. The explosive growth of the Internet, providing global communications through email and global document access through the World Wide Web, has put an end to such talk. But now, the emergence of various digital forms, including hypertext and hypermedia, has raised further questions about the survival of the library, the book, and classroom education. What exactly is going on here and how are we to make sense of such possibilities? My way of framing these issues has been to ask: What is a document? That is, what exactly is the nature of these various graphic and written forms, older forms as well as those newly emerging, including books, cash register receipts, maps, electronic spreadsheets, and Web pages? In my research, I approach this question by focusing not only on the technologies involved but on the social roles played by the various communicative forms -- by looking in particular at the way these forms work to create social order. Viewing current technological changes from such a vantage point, as I will in this presentation, provides a way to make sense of what is going on, and to consider what is at stake not only socially but politically and existentially. Information about David Levy: David Levy is a researcher in the Systems and Practices Laboratory at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC). He holds a Ph.D. from Stanford University in computer science (1979) and a Diploma in Calligraphy and Bookbinding from the Roehampton Institute, London (1982). The focus of his work over the last decade at PARC has been on the nature of documents and on the tools and practices through which they are created and used. Current research topics include digital libraries, the reuse of documents, document standards, and the combined use of paper and electronic media. He is currently writing a book, entitled "How Things Talk: Making Sense of Documents in a Digital Age." About the ISI Lazerow Lecture Series: The Samuel Lazerow Lecture, an annual event, is sponsored by the Institute for Scientific Information's Corporate Awards Program. The Lecture Series was established by ISI in 1983, to honor the memory of Samuel Lazerow, who was an outstanding librarian, administrator, and pioneer in library automation. For more information, call the School of Library and Information Science at 543-1749. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Efthimis N. Efthimiadis Associate Professor School of Library & Information Science University of Washington tel-office: 206-616-6077 Box 352930 tel-school: 206-543-1794 Seattle, WA 98195-2930 fax. 206-616-3152 email: efthimis@u.washington.edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:53:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Monika Antonelli Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS CALL FOR PAPERS ******************************************************************************** *** The Research and Statistics Committee of the Management and Operation of User Services Section of RUSA is sponsoring its Fifth Annual Reference Research Forum at the 1999 American Library Association Annual Meeting in New Orleans. This is an opportunity to present and discuss your research project covering the broad area of reference services such as user behavior, electronic services, reference effectiveness and organization structure and personnel. Both completed research and research in progress will be considered. All researchers, including reference practitioners from all types of libraries, library school faculty and students, and other interested individuals are encouraged to submit a proposal. The Committee will utilize a "blind" review process to select a maximum of three (3) projects for 25-minute presentations, followed by open discussion. The selected researchers must present their papers in person at the forum. Criteria for selection are: * Significance of the study for improving the quality of reference service * Quality and creativity of the methodology * Potential for the research to fill a gap in reference knowledge or to build on previous studies * Previously published research or research accepted by December 1, 1998 for publication will not be acceptable. Please submit a one-page proposal by DECEMBER 1, 1998. Notification of acceptance will be made by March 15, 1999. Submissions must consist of no more than two pages. On the first page, please list your name(s), title(s), institutional affiliation, and address (including your mail address, fax number, and e-mail address). The second page should NOT show your name or any personal information. Instead it must include: * The title of your project * An explicit statement of the research problem * A description of the research methodology used * An explanation of the significance of the research to reference services Electronic submissions are acceptable and must also be delivered in two parts. Notification of acceptance will be made by March 15, 1999. Please send submissions to: Diana D. Shonrock, Chair RUSA MOUSS Research and Statistics Committee Iowa State University Library 152 Parks Library Ames IA 50011-2140 (515) 294-7866 (work); (515) 294-5525 (fax) shonrock@gwgate.lib.iastate.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:01:45 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BALIPETZ@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: database indexing question Dear Ms Brown, You asked for thoughts on how you can develop a keywords list that is right for your own publication. I thought it would be best to reply off-list. First, I agree that it would be better to have a single list that can be used for both stories and photos. I doubt that you can really separate the concepts that staff will have in mind when searching for one or the other. (Except that information about the format of photos may be useful when one is searching for photos, and could justify a distinct set of descriptive terms that could be searched for at the same time as one searched for topical terms.) On the bigger question of how to generate a good list of topical key terms, my suggestion is that you consider abandoning your implied intention of doing it all by yourself in a more-or-less pontifical manner. If your intention is really to produce a list that is responsive to the needs of the editors, reporters, et al., then I suggest you involve them in the process of shaping the basic philosophy of the list--and then fill in the blanks by yourself. Specifically, you might be able to form a small focus group that included different types of potential users, and let them comment on the usefulness (or absence) of key terms that you think could be applied to a randomly selected small sample of stories and photos. That would not result in unanimous agreement, but it would help clarify many of the staff needs, which might not be exactly what you understood at the beginning. Even more importantly, it would cement support for your activity within the organization by letting the intended users feel appreciated. If this approach appeals to you, you might even plan for periodic reviews of the key term list in the years ahead where the staff group would look at newer stories and photos and comment on the adequacy of the list you adopted. Anyhow, that is my suggestion. FYI, I am a retired professor of information science at the State University of New York at Albany, and also a former president of the American Society of Indexers. In my many pre-academic years, I ran many informations center projects that required vocabulary building for indexing and retrieval; things always went well when the intended information users were brought in for comments and ideas at an early stage of system development. Sincerely, Ben-Ami Lipetz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:16:53 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BALIPETZ@CNSVAX.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: database indexing question Ooops! I did intend to reply off-list. Perhaps it is just as well that I goofed. With apologies just the same, Ben Lipetz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:26:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: ASI Web Site Updates All -- fyi ... the ASI Web Site (http://www.ASIndexing.org) has some updates. Happy indexing! .... Lori Lori Lathrop (76620.456@compuserve.com) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:47:32 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rivka Subject: How to Index with Word Further to Kari's question: Here's the process I used to index about a dozen manuals of 50 to 150 pages each. How to Index with Word 1. Mark up your paper copy. 2. Create a master set of index entries: nouns, adjectives, verbs, etc. in a single file. 3. Make a new file with a page number in Level 2 heading style for each page of the book. Make a page break before this heading style, but for "General" and "1", manually remove the page break before so that they will both occur on page 1. 4. Copy entries from the master set into the index file for your document. 5. Create index entries, one per line, from the marked-up copy and put each entry you create under the appropriate page heading in the page file. When you have different topics on a page, separate your list of index entries with a blank line. You can remove the blanks later. 6. Compile the index for the entries file, check it, edit it, polish it. 7. When the index file is correct, open the document file and turn on hidden text so you can see what you are doing. 8. Copy the index entries onto the correct pages in the Word file: best to copy them at the start of each page, or at a regular place on each page or under each heading. If anyone is interested, I'll be happy to send you an attachment with the sample word file I sent to Kari. Cheers Rivka ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:48:42 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonnie Gaventa Subject: Re: QUERY: Marketing calls & voice mail How about calling after (or before) regular office hours? Many executives stay later and/or come in earlier than the support staff, and once the receptionist/secretary has gone, it's much easier to catch them on the phone (assuming you have a direct number or their extension number). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:19:34 -0700 Reply-To: dmbrown@brown-inc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David M. Brown" Organization: Brown Inc. Subject: Re: How to Index with Word > How to Index with Word Only if you have a *lot* of spare time and really *love* duplication of effort. > 1. Mark up your paper copy. > 2. Create a master set of index entries: nouns, ... > 8. Copy the index entries onto the correct pages in the > Word file: best to copy them at the start of each page, > or at a regular place on each page or under each > heading. May I propose an alternative? 1. Turn on hidden text and show field codes. 2. Work your way through the document, embedding index entries right next to the words and phrases you want them to point to. 3. Turn off hidden text, hide field codes, and compile the index. 4. For any index entry you want to change, go to the corresponding page numbers. 5. Turn on hidden text, show field codes, and make your changes. 6. Repeat steps 3 through 5 as needed, until you're happy with the finished index. For those who hate indexing in Word, just keep going til you run out of time or patience. ;) At least with this method, when the index is finished, *you* are finished. I can't imagine anything more demoralizing than getting the index just the way I want it and *then* having to go back to copy and paste hundreds of entries into the body of the document. And there's no sense *at all* in putting the entries *anywhere* besides right next to the things you want them to point to. Otherwise you have to start over from scratch whenever any little thing changes. --David ============================== David M. Brown -- Brown Inc. dmbrown@brown-inc.com http://www.brown-inc.com/ ============================== See our web site for news about HTML Indexer, the easiest way to create and maintain indexes for web sites and other HTML documents.