From LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu Thu Dec 24 18:10:40 1998 Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:46:05 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB To: Ilana Kingsley Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9811C" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 17:46:13 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Review of Quicken site index David Brown has written a review of the Web index at http://www.quicken.com for the Web Indexing mailing list. It can be found via http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/webindexing. Other reviews, articles, etc., are welcome Jonathan Jermey Moderator Web indexing mailing list (http://WINDMAIL.listbot.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:19:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Off topic: Fw: Warning (phone scam) At 10:47 PM 11/14/1998 EST, Ann Truesdale wrote: >I picked this up from another e-mail list. Hope it is not like the virus >scares, ie., a hoax. Sounded like something almost anybody would be taken in >by, so I thought I would pass it on just in case.... Ann, this is not quite a hoax...but almost. In fact, there was an article in today's paper about it. It =is= possible, on some business phone systems, to dial a series of numbers and give over partial control of your phone temporarily. It is NOT possible on a residential telephone--at least, not in the way that is described in this message. I have seen this identical message at least three previous times in the past six months or so. Don't you think that if this were true, it would have been in the news and everywhere else by now? I remember the last telephone scam that came around (which happened to be real), regarding getting a message on your machine to call a strange number with a particular area code. Sometimes they would say it was a family or business emergency...anything to get you to call. And then they somehow managed to rack up huge long-distances charges on your bill. This one hit the news almost immediately, and I saw it everywhere. Anyway, unless we get some confirmation from a reputable source, I'm not going to worry about this. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:56:36 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen K Passey Subject: Re: Off topic: Warning (phone scam) As the former administrator of a computerized telephone system (_those_ were the bad old days!), I can comment with some feeling on Ann's passed-on post about telephone fraud. The whole thing may seem simple common sense, but even very savvy people get taken in every day. Yes, telephone fraud is alive and well in these United States (and probably elsewhere). And it often ain't peanuts, though the really outrageous bills (in the thousands of dollars) usually get stuck to bigger businesses because of their more sophisticated systems (where thieves can create permanent back doors) and more tempting line pools. As one AT&T tech put it, you don't think the drug millionnaires make their calls to Colombia from their own phones, do you? (It isn't only the money that's laundered.) In some if not all states, the person or business that "owns" the number used is considered liable for the entire amount, whether or not the call was legally made, so a certain wariness is a good attitude to cultivate. The particular code mentioned (90#) is one I am not familiar with, but it _is_ very similar to some of the AT&T system tech codes and general codes that I used to work with, and sounds very possible. Whether this particular one is genuine or not, the bottom line is the same: be alert and beware. If a request sounds fishy, it probably is; hang up. In general, the phone company can do virtually any "line testing" they need to do through the central office or from the street without needing the customer's active assistance (those guys don't hang around on the tops of those poles just to look cool). They are also unlikely to initiate such a test without your request. This is probably one of those "well, duh!" things, but the people who do this are experienced flim-flam artists, and are experts at sounding plausible. Also, as more and more of our telecommunications infrastructure gets more and more deeply computerized, and as all those 10-10 things keep breeding, the window of opportunity will probably only get larger. This kind of fraud does happen; it's a big enough problem nationwide with company systems (even smaller ones) that service vendors routinely devote a great deal of communication effort and training to addressing the problem. And these thieves often target small businesses, so I don't think it's really that far off topic. I'll crawl back under my soap box now ;-), but I for one appreciated the reminder. Thanks, Ann! Helen Passey WordRight Northwest helenpassey@juno.com On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:47:49 EST Ann Truesdale writes: >I picked this up from another e-mail list. Hope it is not like the virus >scares, ie., a hoax. Sounded like something almost anybody would be >taken in by, so I thought I would pass it on just in case.... > >> Interesting warning to pass on! >> >> > This can happen at home and at work... I received a telephone call from an individual identifying himself as an AT&T Service Technician that was running a test on our telephone lines. He stated that to complete the test we should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound sign (#) and hang up. Luckily, we were suspicious and refused. Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by pushing 90# you end up giving the individual that called you access to your telephone line and allows them to place a long distance telephone call, with the charge appearing on your telephone bill. We were further informed that this scam has been originating from many of the local jails/prisons. I have verified with UCB Telecomm. that this actually happens. I called GTE Security this morning and verified that this is definitely possible and DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. It will give them access to your phone line to make long distances calls ANYWHERE!!!! The GTE Security department told me to go ahead and share this information with EVERYONE I KNOW!!! >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:42:00 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: biography & fiction Susie Stephenson wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: repaginating charges Michael K. Smith wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: klrsak Subject: Re: Fax machine Nell - couple months ago I glanced past a newspaper ad in which AT&T was selling what they call Microbit, saying you could run faxes and surf the Internet at the same time, etc. I don't know all that's involved (not impossible I could even have the names wrong) but maybe that's your solution. lacoG indexing 303 838 0274 klrsak@oneimage.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:49:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: cutting/pasting on Index-L Brief reminder to subscribers: When you respond to a posting on Index-L, you can cut and paste just a snippet of the posting rather than repeating the entire (often long) post, thereby saving bandwidth. Sometimes the subject heading is enough and you don't need to include any of the original message. What I've been seeing more and more of are messages like this: first message: What do you think about X? --Smith second message: I think it's terrible. --Jones > >What do you think about X? > >--Smith > third message: I disagree, because . . . --Thomas > >I think it's terrible. > >--Jones >> >>What do you think about X? >> >>--Smith >> Like that only much, much longer. It's a lot to wade through just to find additions to the thread. If you're using Eudora on a Mac, you can grab an excerpt to reply to by selecting text and holding down the shift key when you hit "reply." If you don't want/need an excerpt, just hold the shift key down with no text selected. I imagine that other mail programs and platforms have similar functionality. My sympathies to those of you using mail software that won't rise to the occasion. Thanks. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:50:50 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Laurence Errington Subject: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last week Thanks for everyones remarks. Sound's like quite a split on W98. I'm only replying because of all these smug replies from MAC users. I'm sure you're all basically nice people but why is it that you have to say how happy you are with what you have, and that MACs are so much better than PCs. It feels akin to neighbours boasting of their better car, house, garden gnome whatever. Why is it? Is it because they feel so insecure because of Apple's shaky viability over the last few years? I have 2 friends who bought MACs and before they even had it, they felt so proud that they had elected to belong to the MAC camp. Now they have them, they exude this air of superiority even though only their kids use the thing. Mind you, they have to buy all their own software, as few of their friend's kids have MACs with whom they can swap games. I also hear the odd complaint `why hasn't this game come out in MAC form -it's not fair?' (this is the adults saying this). I'm a PC user and I chose it because here in the UK MACs were more expensive and still are (though not quite so much), and (back in 1988 or so) I wanted something that ran MACREX. I have never felt the need, despite having no major problems with my PC to tell MAC users to come over, you could save a lot of money. Please leave us MAC users to moan away about W95 or W98 (there are roughly 10 times as many of us which might explain why there is so much more moaning). There, I've become on the ranters on Index-L. Ho hum back to work on my GP symptoms sorter. -- Dr Laurence Errington 15 Kirkhill Terrace, Edinburgh, Scotland, EH16 5DQ Tel: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 Fax: 0044-(0)131-667-5406 (9-7pm GMT weekdays only) E-Mail: laurence@errington-index.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:44:14 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Medical Spell Checker In-Reply-To: > I have a medical transcription background, and can vouch for the Stedman's > electronic medical speller. Are there any English English medical spell checkers with, e.g., 'anaemia' rather than 'anemia'? Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:08:40 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey and Glenda Browne Subject: Are catalogues indexes? Simon Cauchi wrote in response to a letter by Bella Haas Weinberg (in a post I deleted too promptly and so can't quote from) that he does not grant that catalogues are indexes. Like him, I was suprised at Bella's unquestioning assumption that this was so. Perhaps in the very broadest sense of indexing this would be true, but in our day-to-day usage we find it useful to distinguish between the two. When I work as a cataloguer I call myself a cataloguer or librarian, and consider the job distinct from my indexing work. Regards, Glenda. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:59:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Subject: Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives Which is why I am waiting for win 2000 (?) and still hanging on for dear life with Win 3.1 ... when will it end? M. Jessie Barczak Research Analyst Powell Tate Washington 202-434-8533 jbarczak@washington.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Lynn Moncrief [SMTP:techndex@PACBELL.NET] > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 1998 12:36 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Windows95 and larger hard drives > > Hi everyone, > > Thanks to everyone who wrote in to tell me about Win 95b! Early this > morning, I joyfully told my husband that I was going to format my hard > drive and install Win95b. After a moment of inarticulate sputtering in > shock, he told me that the latest build we have for Win95 is OSR A. Drat! > > Then William further rained on my parade by saying: > > >Win95b has the option to use FAT32 for its file system, rather than > FAT16, > which > >all previous versions of DOS and Windows used. FAT32 can cause problems > on a > >Windows 95 system but it is the default file system for Windows 98. Many > of the > >problems people have migrating to Windows 98 can be traced to a problem > >converting FAT 16 disk drives to FAT 32. > > Being that all of the files I've created since having Win98 are FAT 32, > I'll probably create even more problems for myself by going back to Win95 > (and FAT16 since it doesn't handle FAT 32 too well). It looks like I'm > stuck with Win98. :-( > > Lynn > > > *********************************** > Lynn Moncrief > (techndex@pacbell.net) > TECHindex & Docs > Technical and Scientific Indexing > *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:19:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95 Just a couple of comments about this thread: * The Mac vs. PC war will never be won by either side. Period. * Some people will have serious problems with their operating system/computer/printer/Ford/microwave. Some people won't. That's life. * If you have something that works, stay with it. If an "upgrade" becomes available but you don't need any of the additional functionality (or if upgrading might threaten the stability of your current setup), don't upgrade; at the same time, however, that doesn't mean that those who chose to upgrade are morons. Just my Monday morning rant. And now back to our regularly scheduled work day, which is already in progress... John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: Laurence Errington [SMTP:Laurence@ERRINGTON-INDEX.DEMON.CO.UK] > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 3:51 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last > week > > Thanks for everyones remarks. Sound's like quite a split on W98. > > I'm only replying because of all these smug replies from MAC users. I'm > sure you're all basically nice people but why is it that you have to say > how happy you are with what you have, and that MACs are so much better > than PCs. It feels akin to neighbours boasting of their better car, > house, garden gnome whatever. Why is it? Is it because they feel so > insecure because of Apple's shaky viability over the last few years? > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:00:13 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Fax machine I heard about something like this on NPR's "Real Computing" program last week. They were talking to someone who had developed a technology where *three* different sets of information could be sent over one phone line at the same time - using different frequency ranges, I think. I did not hear it all, and it was a bit over my head; no mention of AT&T. More info. may be available at the npr.org website. In a message dated 11/15/98 8:41:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, klrsak@ONEIMAGE.COM writes: > Nell - couple months ago I glanced past a newspaper ad in which AT&T was > selling what they call Microbit, saying you could run faxes and surf the > Internet at the same time, etc. I don't know all that's involved (not > impossible I could even have the names wrong) but maybe that's your > solution. > lacoG > indexing > 303 838 0274 > klrsak@oneimage.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:05:30 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95 I have installed Windows 98 the day it was released. I never had any problem with my software/hardware. As a matter of fact, my computer has become faster and much more efficient. I have always been a VERY big fan of Microsoft products and I am very proud of being one. Regards, Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services >From owner-index-l@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU Mon Nov 16 07:30:01 1998 >Received: from [128.228.100.10] by hotmail.com (1.0) with SMTP id MHotMail30886829773653506532497216245146649841; Mon Nov 16 07:30:01 1998 >Received: from listserv (listserv.cuny.edu) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.FFA921EB@listserv.cuny.edu>; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:32:17 -0500 >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:19:38 -0500 >Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group >Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group >From: John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM >Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95 >X-To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >Just a couple of comments about this thread: > >* The Mac vs. PC war will never be won by either side. Period. >* Some people will have serious problems with their operating >system/computer/printer/Ford/microwave. Some people won't. That's life. >* If you have something that works, stay with it. If an "upgrade" >becomes available but you don't need any of the additional functionality (or >if upgrading might threaten the stability of your current setup), don't >upgrade; at the same time, however, that doesn't mean that those who chose >to upgrade are morons. >Just my Monday morning rant. And now back to our regularly scheduled work >day, which is already in progress... > > >John Sullivan > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Laurence Errington [SMTP:Laurence@ERRINGTON-INDEX.DEMON.CO.UK] >> Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 3:51 AM >> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >> Subject: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last >> week >> >> Thanks for everyones remarks. Sound's like quite a split on W98. >> >> I'm only replying because of all these smug replies from MAC users. I'm >> sure you're all basically nice people but why is it that you have to say >> how happy you are with what you have, and that MACs are so much better >> than PCs. It feels akin to neighbours boasting of their better car, >> house, garden gnome whatever. Why is it? Is it because they feel so >> insecure because of Apple's shaky viability over the last few years? >> >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:47:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Subject: Re: repaginating charges I just finished a similar project, wherein I repaginated a book I had indexed from the author's manuscript in the spring. I knew from advice on Index-L that this was not recommended, but the topic was a difficult one for me and I thought I'd get a jump on the concepts and language. Wrong and wrong again! It took just as much time to repaginate as it did to do the original index six months ago, perhaps more. Procedure: I printed my original index in page-number order and then tried to find each item in the manuscript. Tedious. Very tedious and time-consuming. I will never do it this way again. Not intellectually stimulating, as it was during the first pass through, just a matter of matching previous entries to now-edited pages. My advice would be to index from scratch. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:22:38 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Moira Greenhalgh Subject: Re: repaginating charges >Procedure: I printed my original index in page-number order and then >tried to find each item in the manuscript. Tedious. Very tedious and >time-consuming. I will never do it this way again. Not intellectually >stimulating, as it was during the first pass through, just a matter of >matching previous entries to now-edited pages. > >My advice would be to index from scratch. "Tried to find each item in the manuscript" ??? Surely you kept marked up copy of your original work, showing "exactly" where each item was. More than half my work is updating previous editions of books that I have indexed. I can't see what the fuss is, or why everyone seems to think it difficult or so time consuming. It is much, much quicker than starting from scratch. It can be tedious, but who expects work to be all excitement and thrills? Moira moiracg@dialin.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:23:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Seth A. Maislin" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: ASI Web Site updates Lori Lathrop (ASI President) has posted another letter to the ASI Web site to present news from the most recent ASI Board Meeting two weekends ago. All letters from the president are available at http://www.ASIndexing.org/pres.htm. The newest letter, dated November 14, includes information on the following topics: * dues increase (more information at www.ASIndexing.org/ASIDUES.htm) * multiple chapter affiliations * _Key Words_ * International Affiliation Agreement * national conference planning for the years 2001 to 2004 - Seth Seth A. Maislin (Web Committee liaison to the Board) Focus Information Services smaislin@world.std.com ICQ#16652316 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:29:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Subject: Re: repaginating charges 
"Tried to find each item in the manuscript" ???
Surely you kept marked up copy of your original work, showing "exactly"
where each item was.
Couldn't because the author wanted her manuscript back.  t 

--
Joy Thomas
Social Sciences Librarian
California State University, Long Beach
562 985-7817
  ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:43:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: repaginating charges I hate to question others' procedures, but if you have an index listing printed out in page number order and a copy of both the new and the old manuscript to compare, I have to agree with Moira that it is much, much faster to renumber than to redo from scratch. Yes, it's boring, but we're talking speed, not intellectual stimulation here, and that's what the client is looking for. Virtually all of my work consists of updating existing indexes, and I admit that renumberings or repaginations are a pain, but they do go quickly. Every situation is different, but the initial question was about repaginating a hardbound book for the paperback edition, so you don't even have to deal with changed material. I can't give you advice on what to charge, but repagination is really not that big of a deal. -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Moira Greenhalgh [SMTP:moiracg@DIALIN.NET] > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 1:23 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: repaginating charges > > >Procedure: I printed my original index in page-number order and then > >tried to find each item in the manuscript. Tedious. Very tedious and > >time-consuming. I will never do it this way again. Not intellectually > >stimulating, as it was during the first pass through, just a matter of > >matching previous entries to now-edited pages. > > > >My advice would be to index from scratch. > > > > "Tried to find each item in the manuscript" ??? > Surely you kept marked up copy of your original work, showing "exactly" > where each item was. > > More than half my work is updating previous editions of books that I have > indexed. I can't see what the fuss is, or why everyone seems to think it > difficult or so time consuming. It is much, much quicker than starting > from > scratch. It can be tedious, but who expects work to be all excitement and > thrills? > > > > > Moira > moiracg@dialin.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:02:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: repaginating charges In-Reply-To: <199811161824.NAA32395@camel23.mindspring.com> At 06:22 PM 11/16/98 +0000, you wrote: >"Tried to find each item in the manuscript" ??? >Surely you kept marked up copy of your original work, showing "exactly" >where each item was. I've been in the same boat. A marked up copy from six months ago? I keep proofs for 3 months and the space for that is prohibitive. And if you're going to keep them for six months, then along comes a job you did nine months ago and you're stuck again. Or maybe there should have been a smiley on your comment. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:59:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: repaginating I agree with Dick. When you index full-time, you'd need a warehouse if you wanted to save all the proofs for any length of time. I recycle the paper after about 2 months. As it is it takes up too much room. Add the volume of old page proof to the stacks of page proof accumulating on projects in progress, and you've got a LOT of paper. Now ... if I knew I'd be doing a revision or repagination later on, of course I'd save it. Most of the time, I don't do revisions, so that isn't an issue for me, so I dispose of all of that paper once I'm certain the client has accepted the index and will have no questions for me on it that would require me to research the page proof. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:02:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: repaginating charges Moira wrote: > I can't see what the fuss is, or why everyone seems to think it >difficult or so time consuming. It is much, much quicker than starting from >scratch. It can be tedious, but who expects work to be all excitement and >thrills? > I would like to second Moira's comments. I agree that updating _someone else's index_ can be a morasse, and I have had some horrific experiences after talking myself into such. But repaginating/updating your own indexes can be a breeze. In many instances new editions are produced with so few changes as to almost make you wonder why they just don't do another printing instead. New editors may seem compelled to make their own "mark" by fixing a few bad page breaks, and switching a few illustrations from verso to recto pages. Sometimes that's about it in the way of changes. OK sure occasionally they add a new chapter or a new chapter subsection and you put on your normal indexing hat. I charge less than the usual rate, usually $.50/page less, and feel guilty about that for what often amounts to just a few hours work. Of course not all updates are this easy, but some are. Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:08:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Subject: Re: repaginating charges Thank you, Dick! -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:13:53 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Subject: Re: repaginating I was talking about having originally indexed a MANUSCRIPT not page proofs. There was a great deal of change between the manuscript and the proofs. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:43:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: cutting/pasting on Index-L In-Reply-To: <199811160025.QAA27120@neti.saber.net> >If you're using Eudora on a Mac, you can grab an excerpt to reply to by >selecting text and holding down the shift key when you hit "reply." If you >don't want/need an excerpt, just hold the shift key down with no text >selected. Carol, Thank you (again) for a helpful tip. Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: repaginating charges Just wanted to add that I don't save page proofs very long (3-5 months) either. Many are not marked so it wouldn't help me anyway. My process involves a side-by-side comparison of new and old text pages; obviously this requires having a copy of the previous edition/version. I compare each new page to its corresponding old page. I look for a variety of things like: does the line end with the same sentence, are the illustrations the same, are the bolded key terms the same. According to some research I discovered while indexing a school psychology book my dyslexia may make me uniquely qualified for such quick scanning for differences! If it's the same I go on to the next page until the chapter is done. If anything new is encountered I index that as I find it. When done with the chapter I update the old chapter's terms instantly with Alter (I'm a Cindexer). This assumes of course all the the standard repagination stuff: index squeezed single and in Page sorted order. On to the next chapter. This assumes a 1-1 correspondence of the page size. The hardback/softcover repagination would be harder but done by the same technique; I've never encountered anything other than standard new edition/version repagination projects. Here's an obvious question some people might have. Don't you check all the terms individually? No, not when I'm updating my own work. [I _would_ feel compelled to check every term in someone else's index, which is a big part of the reason why I no longer do that!] After checking that the text is the same and any new elements accounted for, I would no more feel compelled to check each individual term than I would finish a normal indexing project, then redo the whole thing to "check" it. Although I acknowledge some folks would! Having done this many times, surpisingly it has taught me a lesson or two about indexing. A huge part of the problem when repaginating another's work comes from overclassification, a topic I've ranted about many times on Index-L. The discussions here are somewhat abstract; only in attempting to update another's index can you appreciate the high rate of double posting errors introduced by overclassifying. It's not uncommon for them to run about 25% even when repaginating the work of experienced indexers. Attempting to rationalize all the weird places another indexer has put terms as subs that should just be main heads can tie your brain into knots bigtime!! I _only_ classify "after the fact", i.e., during editing. Thus I can be assured that all my double postings are accurate and I can repaginate without worrying about double posting accuracy. Secondly all names and weird terms are spelled "dyslexically". This means if I see Pearson I don't think "Pearson". I think P-e-a-r-s-o-n. A person who just looks at a word and thinks they know it, as in like a "normal" person, could easily write Peerson instead. Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:05:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: repaginating charges Kevin and all, What bothers me about this comparison thing, and not checking "every entry", is the question of deleted material. It is easy enough to spot new material. It stands out. But deleted material, leading to entries that MUST be deleted, is harder to spot. This is what threw me when I worked on a revision of an index for the first time a few weeks ago. I was terrified of leaving entries in there that no longer existed, so felt I had to check every entry. Also, it wasn't my own index I was updating. And this indeed is slow, tedious, and boring beyond belief. And hard on the eyes too -- very! And that is why I chose to re-index it as if it were new material. That way I was sure of the quality of my product. Some folks posted messages earlier this morning about not all work being exciting and intellectually stimulating. Well, that's true. But I don't have to choose to do that kind of work if I don't want to. And I don't. So you all won't have any competition from me there. Ahh, ..... different strokes ..........!! :-) Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:08:18 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverly Schane Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last week I use a PC at home and a Mac at work. I can see why the Mac users are happy about their purchase---everything is easier to do on the Mac--has been for a long time and still is. None of us should be happy if the Mac dies. Mac should have been the computer the world is using--it is the superior computer. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last w eek Ah, yes, I remember the jokes about how Windows '95 was another name for Mac '89 or something to that effect ... M. Jessie Barczak Research Analyst Powell Tate Washington 202-434-8533 jbarczak@washington.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Beverly Schane [SMTP:Bbschane@AOL.COM] > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 5:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query > last week > > I use a PC at home and a Mac at work. I can see why the Mac users are > happy > about their purchase---everything is easier to do on the Mac--has been for > a > long time and still is. None of us should be happy if the Mac dies. Mac > should > have been the computer the world is using--it is the superior computer. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:02:53 -0000 Reply-To: jsampson@indexes.u-net.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J.R. Sampson" Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95 In-Reply-To: > If you have something that works, stay with it. Sometimes this is best. However, with some software if I have a problem and I ring up technical support the first question is often 'Are you using the current version?' - I don't know how much help you can rely on getting if you are using a trusty old version and they think your problem has been fixed in the upgrade. Regards _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:20:39 -0800 Reply-To: Bonny.McLaughlin@cgu.edu Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bonny McLaughlin Organization: cgs.edu Subject: Off topic: phone scam hoax The following is from the Tourbus Internet Hoax kit. It should allay fears about the 909# story. Subject: Nine-Zero-Pound Warning Thank you for forwarding me the "nine-zero-pound" warning. Unfortunately, the warning you sent me is exaggerated. I have attached an excerpt from an article on the warning I recently saw on the Internet TOURBUS. By the way, if you do not yet subscribe to TOURBUS, I strongly recommend that you do. TOURBUS is a free, semi-weekly Internet newsletter that tells you about the latest Internet sites and helps you debunk the latest Internet urban legends. I have included TOURBUS subscription information at the bottom of this message. ------------------------------- THE NINETY POUND TELEPHONE SCAM ------------------------------- According to our next urban legend On Saturday, 24 January 1998, Naval Air Station, Joint Reserve Base, New Orleans' Quarterdeck received a telephone call from an individual identifying himself as an AT&T Service Technician that was running a test on our telephone lines. He stated that to complete the test the QMOW should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound sign (#) and hang up. Luckily, the QMOW was suspicious and refused. Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by using 90# you end up giving the individual that called you access to your telephone line and allows them to place a long distance telephone call, with the charge appearing on your telephone [bill]. We were further informed that this scam has been originating from many of the local jails/prisons. Please 'pass the word.'" Well, you fearless bus driver spent most of Tuesday on the phone with folks from both Force 3 (the company that originally reported this story) and AT&T (the long distance telephone company whose logo looks an awful lot like Darth Vader's Death Star). As shocking as this may sound, the "nine-zero-pound" story is true ... sort of. What the warning letter floating around the Net doesn't say is that this scam only works on telephones where you have to dial 9 to get an outside line. Unless you have to dial 9 to get an outside line at home, this scam does not affect residential telephone users. Dialing "nine-zero-pound" on a residential phone will only give you a busy signal. That's it. On some business phones, however, dialing "nine-zero-pound" may transfer a call to an outside operator and give the caller the opportunity to call anywhere in the world and charge it to your business' phone bill ... maybe. It all depends on how your business' telephone system is set up. If your company doesn't require you to dial 9 to get an outside line (for example, if you have a direct outside telephone line on your desk or if your company's phone system requires you to dial a number other than 9 to get an outside line) the "nine-zero-pound" scam does not affect you. Also, if your company's phone system is set up so that you cannot make a long distance call once you have accessed an outside line (a lot of companies now limit all outside lines to local calls only), the "nine-zero-pound" scam does not affect you either. The "nine-zero-pound" story only affects those businesses that require you to dial 9 to get an outside line and then place no restrictions on who or where you can call once you get that outside line. And, just to be anal-retentive, let me say one more time that, unless you have to dial 9 to get an outside line at home, this scam does _not_ affect residential telephone users. [It also probably doesn't affect non-US telephone users. This is especially true for British telephone users whose telephone system is so complex that NO ONE in the UK knows how to use BT's phones (although I am sure that BT users are currently dealing with some sort of "dial q-seven-pi-cromwell-eleventeen-tomato" scam)]. =====================[ Tourbus Rider Information ]=================== The Internet Tourbus - U.S. Library of Congress ISSN #1094-2238 Copyright 1995-98, Rankin & Crispen - All rights reserved Archives on the Web at http://www.TOURBUS.com Join: Send SUBSCRIBE TOURBUS Your Name to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Leave: Send SIGNOFF TOURBUS to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Send this copy to 3 friends and tell them to hop on the Bus! ===================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:48:22 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last week Perhaps - but not all of us are willing to shell out what MAC wants, so LONG LIVE THE PC! Beverly Schane wrote: > I use a PC at home and a Mac at work. I can see why the Mac users are happy > about their purchase---everything is easier to do on the Mac--has been for a > long time and still is. None of us should be happy if the Mac dies. Mac should > have been the computer the world is using--it is the superior computer. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:25:18 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: repaginating charges In-Reply-To: <199811161824.NAA13473@mail1.bellsouth.net> Moira, if I kept all the indexer's proofs I receive, the spare bedroom would no longer be "spare." I keep them until I get the check in the mail, and then out they go! Actually, I used to try to recycle everything as scratch paper, but nobody could possibly use that much. So I started taking reams of proofs to the library where I worked until last year, but now it would just pile up (to the rafters). Besides, *many* of us don't mark up anything -- we just skim, and then sit down and start typing away.... Michael K. Smith Smith Editorial Services mksmith1@bellsouth.net ICQ #15741870 http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds |Surely you kept marked up copy of your original work, showing "exactly" |where each item was. | |More than half my work is updating previous editions of books that I have |indexed. I can't see what the fuss is, or why everyone seems to think it |difficult or so time consuming. It is much, much quicker than starting from |scratch. It can be tedious, but who expects work to be all excitement and |thrills? | |Moira |moiracg@dialin.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:20:06 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: mstewart Subject: New York State Sales Tax? Are we liable for sales tax on the payment for the indexes we produce (when doing business in New York State)? Common sense says not, but common sense and the government are often at odds. Has anyone asked the question of the State tax department, or does anyone know which State publication contains the answer? ------------------------------------- Name: Marianna Stewart E-mail:mstewart@stny.lrun.com Date: 11/16/98 Time: 7:20:06 PM This message was sent by Chameleon ------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:19:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: System Crashes [sort of] I am supposed to be a "guru" myself, but need help. Please respond offlist, since this is only vaguely related to the ongoing thread. After installing a new hard drive, and transferring all my Windows95 material to it from backup tape, many of the profile settings [sound is one] have altered. That I can fix. But the Start-->Programs menu is EMPTY! This also I can restore -- painfully -- by hand, except that I have no idea which directories some of the programs reside in as well as not easily remembering what programs were actually THERE in the first place [stupid, right, but we're talking 40+ programs here.] The setup information for the Start-->Program menu must exist in a file somewhere, but none of my big reference books are any help at all. And, yes, I have tried the usual restoring from USER.DA0 and SYSTEM.DA0, as well as ERASING those files and replacing them from the backup tape. I know life goes on but this is a more-than-normal drag. Any suggestions will be greeted with open arms. Cheers, Dave T. 75711.1537@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:12:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Andrea D.B. Jones" Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Greetings to my fellow indexing students (classmates?) and indexers, I'd like to introduce myself. I am Andrea, one of many enrolled in the USDA Basic Indexing Course. I have a question that I'd like or rather need feedback on and that is whether to pursue indexing as a career. It might help to know a little of my background. I have an AS degree in medical laboratory science, 5 years experience as a Mom (9 as wife!), and a chronic bookaholic. With the latter, I indulge mainly in medicine, European history, more medicine, psychology, and Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology (plus a lot of fiction, too). Why am I looking at indexing in the first place? Well, I'm disabled; I have a chronic illness (lupus, if any of you are curious) that keeps me in and out of the hospital and on an extremely limited income. I also have two little people, a 5-year-old son in kindergarten (who will be homeschooled in a year or two) and a 10-month-old daughter. As you might imagine, indexing seemed like the answer to a prayer. I could work at home, indulge my lust for reading while getting paid, pay off some of these never ending medical bills, and help ease some of the financial burden on my poor husband. Can this work? Is there enough work still available in indexing to make a decent living or is this a glutted field? Is there anyone else out there that has circumstances like this and decided to pursue indexing because it seemed "ideal"? BTW, I had to apply for an extension in the indexing course. I was in no shape to study lessons after giving birth! Can't really claim that I have time to now, either...not with a baby learning to walk! I'll thank everyone in advance for feedback and help. I really appreciate it. Feel free to e-mail me personally if you wish. Andrea ajones5864@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:59:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: Fax machine Thanks to all who gave me advice about fax machines. If I don't use call waiting I should be able to use anything... a very helpful point! I decided to wait for Thanksgiving sales so I have a little longer for research. I think this time I'll apply my usual policy concerning other household appliances (such as washing machines) and get the bottom of the line of the best brand. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 02:58:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: New York State Sales Tax? In-Reply-To: <199811170506.XAA00526@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Are we liable for sales tax on the payment for the indexes we produce (when >doing business in New York State)? Common sense says not, but common sense >and the government are often at odds. Has anyone asked the question of the >State tax department, or does anyone know which State publication contains >the answer? Can't honestly say I've asked the IRS, but I started my business in New York State, before moving to Wisconsin, and never collected sales tax or got in trouble on my state tax return. Indexing is considered providing a service, so you don't charge/collect sales tax. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:17:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? In-Reply-To: <199811170506.XAA00526@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Can this work? Is there enough work still available in indexing to make a >decent living or is this a glutted field? Is there anyone else out there that >has circumstances like this and decided to pursue indexing because it seemed >"ideal"? > >BTW, I had to apply for an extension in the indexing course. I was in no >shape to study lessons after giving birth! Can't really claim that I have >time to now, either...not with a baby learning to walk! Hi, Andrea. First of all, welcome. I would say there's plenty of work to be had, but it does take some time to establish a client base. That is, during the first year after your training, there will be large gaps in the workflow, and you won't make much money for the year. Which brings me to another aspect of your question. Whether you can earn a decent living depends not only on how much work is available but on how much time you can devote to it. Off the cuff, I would guess that if an indexer were able to work at indexing only half time, she could not expect to make a "decent living." When I was getting started and setting up my business, my husband and I sat down and wrote out a business plan, so we'd have a more realistic picture (e.g., of what I could expect to earn in the first 2 yrs.). It was such an eye-opener, but as you can see, I decided to launch my indexing career anyway. I also have children (ages 6 and 12), but I don't have a debilitating illness, and I don't homeschool. Please forgive me for being blunt, but you'll need to work out very carefully just how much time you'll be able to devote to your business and calculate/guess what sort of income is realistic. Your remark about not having time to finish the USDA course is rather telling, and the kids aren't going to give you much of a break for some time yet. I hope my remarks haven't been discouraging. I would never try to talk anybody out of pursuing a career as an indexer. I love it, and yes it is very appealing to someone who needs a flexible schedule and to be able to work at home and who loves to read. So best of luck with your business plan, finishing the USDA course, the kids, your bills, your health, and everything! Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:49:09 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Off topic: phone scam hoax Bonny McLaughlin quoted Tourbus Rider Information: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last w eek As I said in my last message, Mac vs. PC is a futile debate. Those who use Macs are religiously devoted to them; those who use something else simply don't care. Saying that Mac is "the superior computer" is like saying Betamax (is that what it was called?) is "the superior video format" or that CPM (might have been CP/M) is "the superior operating system." Each statement may have some validity, but what difference does it make? I can say no more. John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: Beverly Schane [SMTP:Bbschane@AOL.COM] > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 5:08 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query > last week > > I use a PC at home and a Mac at work. I can see why the Mac users are > happy > about their purchase---everything is easier to do on the Mac--has been for > a > long time and still is. None of us should be happy if the Mac dies. Mac > should > have been the computer the world is using--it is the superior computer. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:50:23 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "W. Nadine Kruger" Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? (and my long winded reply) Hi, I wanted to add a little "point of view" to this question. Like Carol and Andrea, I have a child at home.... so the working at home was very appealing to me. Carol makes a good point....sometimes children don't "give you a break." A lot of people are envious of my job.... think it's a "piece of cake," etc. It has definite drawbacks....no medical benefits..... no vacation or sick time.... no boss breathing down my neck to keep me motivated... (Yes, sometimes that is a good thing!) On the other hand, I'm home with my daughter who is not in daycare even parttime (she is 3). That makes it all worthwile, but I must say there is no "magic bullet." So many people are looking for ways to stay home and make big bucks--but I have to say it is also the hardest "gig" I have ever worked. Getting up at 5 in the morning to get in some hours of work before my daughter gets up....squeezing in work during the day.... or working late at night just to get things done. Never mind normal, everyday responsibilities. (Don't mean to sound like I'm whining here..) To be honest, I think the homeschooling may just add some stress to it all. I can't imagine trying to balance that as well. When you say "decent living," what are your expectations? How much do you need to contribute to ease the financial burden? The reason I ask is, I sometimes wish I could just do this parttime because I feel like things fall by the wayside at times. Plus, with a 3 year old at home, sometimes it is very hard to concentrate. (She has gotten to where she will play "Barbies" or look at books while I'm working, so she knows it's quiet time....but that doesn't ALWAYS happen.) But I haven't the choice to work parttime because I'm a single mother and I'm sole breadwinner, so to speak. Maybe you should consider starting out parttime and see how it works..... a small job or something like that. If you truly want to pursue it, Andrea...by all means. Life is too short not to do what you love. I do love working at home, and I would go kicking and screaming if I had to work outside the home again in a "normal job." (heh heh) But it isn't all roses! Feel free to reply offlist if you would like. :) Nadine -----Original Message----- From: Carol Roberts To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 2:17 AM Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? >>Can this work? Is there enough work still available in indexing to make a >>decent living or is this a glutted field? Is there anyone else out there that >>has circumstances like this and decided to pursue indexing because it seemed >>"ideal"? >> Carol's response (snip) Your remark about not having time to finish the USDA course >is rather telling, and the kids aren't going to give you much of a break >for some time yet. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:07:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Time4faith@AOL.COM Subject: "decent" living I've been following the post from the woman who's asking if indexing is for her (forgot her name?) and she said she wants to make a "decent" living. I, too, am a brand new beginner and am curious what a person can expect to make if working at it full time...? And do most of you work for just one or two publishers? And lastly, (and thank you for indulging me), my experience is in areas not normally thought of when considering indexing and I wonder if they are viable areas for indexing. My experience is in theatre, acting, modeling, and all areas of the performing arts. Perhaps I could index textbooks for performing arts? Also, religious studies and pets. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much. Valerie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:52:21 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: "decent" living Valerie: If my words are any help, yes, you can survive completely on indexing as income, but you have to have enough clients. I also do editing and proofreading, so I do not have all my eggs in one basket. Being full-time freelance has a major benefit in the colder cities -- you don't have to leave the house on the nasty days to fight to get to work. No more salmon swimming upstream. Hope that helps. Of course, do not be misled, being full-time freelance has its disadvantages, too, yet the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:02:05 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: New e-mail address Because of my impending move to New Brunswick, I will be unsubscribed for several days. As of Tuesday, November 24, my e-mail address will be nbridge@nb.sympatico.ca. The new snail-mail address and phone number follows. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 295 Highfield Street, Moncton, NB E1C 5R4 Canada phone 506-870-1113 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:34:20 -0800 Reply-To: mooncats@firstdial.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mooncat Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? I guess it's time to stop lurking--I have something to add to the discussion. My name is Nancy, and I'm almost done with the first (basic) USDA course. I also just finished homeschooling my son (1st grade through early college entrance). One of the great things about homeschooling is that it gives you such time flexibility. My husband didn't have Saturday-Sunday off during most of the time we did it, so we couldn't have done things as a family if my son had been in school. That's applicable to indexing in that you and your kids can take time off and be together between jobs. Sometimes the best way to have more time to concentrate on work is to involve your child/children in it. I wrote puzzles for a couple of years (when he was 9-10), and got him doing it, too. There was a greater investment of time in him initially, but he sold four on his own, decided it was boring, and stayed out of my hair while I was doing it after that. Your children might be too young to do indexing for now (although they could certainly learn to read young), but growing up learning indexing skills would help them think more clearly. The children are a given, the lupus is a given, but if you and your family are willing to take it all in stride and work as a team, I think you could do it. Best of luck, Nancy Lemoine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:01:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: New York State Sales Tax? -----Original Message----- From: mstewart To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 7:25 PM Subject: New York State Sales Tax? >Are we liable for sales tax on the payment for the indexes we produce (when >doing business in New York State)? Common sense says not, but common sense >and the government are often at odds. Has anyone asked the question of the >State tax department, or does anyone know which State publication contains >the answer? >------------------------------------- >Name: Marianna Stewart >E-mail:mstewart@stny.lrun.com >Date: 11/16/98 >Time: 7:20:06 PM > >This message was sent by Chameleon >------------------------------------- Yes, in New York State (where I live and do business) you must charge sales tax on any and all services. This may seems strange as this is not the case in most states, where you only need to charge sales tax on products sold. Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Information Management ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:17:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? In-Reply-To: <199811170318.TAA01866@mail-gw.pacbell.net> Hi Andrea, Wow! I can really empathize with you, having a serious chronic disease myself (heart disease). In terms of maintaining an indexing career with a chronic disease (and lupus is indeed a serious disease), there are several things you need to consider, IMHO. (These are based on my own experience as an indexer with a chronic disease.) You mentioned that you're in and out of the hospital quite a bit. I have to admit that this is one of the reasons that I've decided to retire from indexing even though I'm not even 50. (I still hang around here because this list is like a second home to me. ;-D) I'm in the hospital so much that the nurses, the janitors, the folks that bring the trays all know me and it's old homecoming when I arrive. ;-D The issue is whether you can keep your commitments to your clients despite sudden hospitalizations. When I had my first heart attack, I was able to continue indexing (with the help of another indexer) while in the hospital. When I had my second heart attack, I had to ask the publisher to find another indexer because I had congestive heart failure and pneumonia on top of the heart attack. Since then, I've popped into the hospital again right in the middle of an indexing project which I had to give up because I was practically in a diabetic coma and was in too much of a stupor to index. (Hubby took me to the ER because he noticed I was just staring at the screen instead of working.) My point is that it depends on how sick and confined you are whenever you have a sudden hospitalization in the middle of an indexing project. Another consideration is whether you have the stamina to finish indexing projects even when you're not in the hospital. If you want to make a decent income from indexing, you're likely to find yourself pulling strings of all-nighters. Since the heart attacks, I found it very difficult to do that (and that's not recommended for patients in heart failure anyway) and since my last hospitalization two months ago when they really increased my medications, it's a struggle to stay awake long enough to fix dinner, let alone pull an all-nighter. After the "stupor" index, I struggled through two more indexes before deciding not to put myself through that agony again. Yet another issue is whether stress exacerbates your disease. Deadline pressure can be very stressful and indexing is constant deadlines. I'm not at all trying to discourage you (though I'm sure that some of this is pretty discouraging anyway). But please consider the issues I described above in determining whether indexing is a viable career for you. Wishing you the best, Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:35:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95 (I sent this earlier, but I think the Internet gremlins ate it.) As I said in my last message, Mac vs. PC is a futile debate. Those who use Macs are religiously devoted to them; those who use something else simply don't care. Saying that Mac is "the superior computer" is like saying Betamax (is that what it was called?) is "the superior video format" or that CPM (might have been CP/M) is "the superior operating system." Each statement may have some validity, but what difference does it make? I can say no more. John Sullivan -----Original Message----- From: Beverly Schane [SMTP:Bbschane@AOL.COM] Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 5:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Windows 98 v W95-I'm the one asking the original query last week I use a PC at home and a Mac at work. I can see why the Mac users are happy about their purchase---everything is easier to do on the Mac--has been for a long time and still is. None of us should be happy if the Mac dies. Mac should have been the computer the world is using--it is the superior computer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:50:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Andrea, Perhaps ongoing projects like periodicals indexing, rather high-pressure, one-time deals like back-of-book indexes, would be better suited to the unpredicability of your schedule (if your situation is similar to Lynn's). Maybe some periodical indexers can shed some light on the nature of their work. Anne > ---------- > From: Lynn Moncrief > Reply To: Indexer's Discussion Group > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 12:17 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? > > Hi Andrea, > > Wow! I can really empathize with you, having a serious chronic disease > myself (heart disease). In terms of maintaining an indexing career with a > chronic disease (and lupus is indeed a serious disease), there are several > things you need to consider, IMHO. (These are based on my own experience > as > an indexer with a chronic disease.) > > You mentioned that you're in and out of the hospital quite a bit. I have > to > admit that this is one of the reasons that I've decided to retire from > indexing even though I'm not even 50. (I still hang around here because > this list is like a second home to me. ;-D) I'm in the hospital so much > that the nurses, the janitors, the folks that bring the trays all know me > and it's old homecoming when I arrive. ;-D The issue is whether you can > keep your commitments to your clients despite sudden hospitalizations. > When > I had my first heart attack, I was able to continue indexing (with the > help > of another indexer) while in the hospital. When I had my second heart > attack, I had to ask the publisher to find another indexer because I had > congestive heart failure and pneumonia on top of the heart attack. Since > then, I've popped into the hospital again right in the middle of an > indexing project which I had to give up because I was practically in a > diabetic coma and was in too much of a stupor to index. (Hubby took me to > the ER because he noticed I was just staring at the screen instead of > working.) My point is that it depends on how sick and confined you are > whenever you have a sudden hospitalization in the middle of an indexing > project. > > Another consideration is whether you have the stamina to finish indexing > projects even when you're not in the hospital. If you want to make a > decent > income from indexing, you're likely to find yourself pulling strings of > all-nighters. Since the heart attacks, I found it very difficult to do > that > (and that's not recommended for patients in heart failure anyway) and > since > my last hospitalization two months ago when they really increased my > medications, it's a struggle to stay awake long enough to fix dinner, let > alone pull an all-nighter. After the "stupor" index, I struggled through > two more indexes before deciding not to put myself through that agony > again. > > Yet another issue is whether stress exacerbates your disease. Deadline > pressure can be very stressful and indexing is constant deadlines. > > I'm not at all trying to discourage you (though I'm sure that some of this > is pretty discouraging anyway). But please consider the issues I described > above in determining whether indexing is a viable career for you. > > Wishing you the best, > > Lynn > ;-D> > > *********************************** > Lynn Moncrief > (techndex@pacbell.net) > TECHindex & Docs > Technical and Scientific Indexing > *********************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:37:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: Off topic: Fw: Warning (phone scam) This warning was circulated through my company via the people that are responsible for our telephone lines and communications. Presumably these people know whereof they speak but still. . . it could well be a hoax. Hard to know. Toni towilliams@procyongroup.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Ann Truesdale [SMTP:Anntrue@AOL.COM] > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 1998 3:48 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Off topic: Fw: Warning (phone scam) > > I picked this up from another e-mail list. Hope it is not like the virus > scares, ie., a hoax. Sounded like something almost anybody would be taken > in > by, so I thought I would pass it on just in case.... > > Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:53:50 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: mcelroy Subject: indexing-is it the right choice? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE1229.52A8B5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, I too am a beginner and am now facing the daunting challenge of getting = those first few paid jobs. One of the problems that I am having is hooking up with established indexers in my area. Several of you have = suggested that an ideal arrangement for a beginner is to apprentice with an established indexer, thus, hopefully, learning more of the = business end of indexing and perhaps making some connections for jobs. I live in New Orleans and haven't been able to locate someone that = I could work with (by the way, thank you Michael Smith for replying to = my message a few months ago). Is there any kind of service that I am = unaware of in which a new indexer can contact established indexers who are looking for extra help? I'm anxious to = start working and feel frustrated and stuck. Don't worry, I am also pounding the pavement as it were, sending resumes, cover letters and so = forth to publishers. Is it also a good idea at this point to=20 approach authors (I am mainly focusing on academic texts right now) = directly? Any advice on that score? I'd love to hear from all the other beginners about how they are = planning to get their businesses off the ground. Sincerely, Meredith McElroy mcelroy@gateway.net ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE1229.52A8B5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello = All,
I too = am a beginner=20 and am now facing the daunting challenge of getting those first few paid = jobs.=20 One of the problems that I am having is
hooking up with=20 established indexers in my area. Several of you have suggested that an = ideal=20 arrangement for a beginner is to apprentice
with = an established=20 indexer, thus, hopefully, learning more of the business end of indexing = and=20 perhaps making some connections for
jobs. = I live in New=20 Orleans and haven't been able to locate someone that I could work with = (by the=20 way, thank you Michael Smith for replying to my message a few months = ago). Is=20 there any kind of service that I am unaware of in which a new indexer = can=20 contact
established=20 indexers who are looking for extra help? I'm anxious to start working = and feel=20 frustrated and stuck. Don't worry, I am also
pounding the=20 pavement as it were, sending resumes, cover letters and so forth to = publishers.=20 Is it also a good idea at this point to
approach = authors (I am=20 mainly focusing on academic texts right now) directly? Any advice on = that=20 score?
 
I'd love to = hear from all=20 the other beginners about how they are planning to get their businesses = off the=20 ground.
 
 
Sincerely,
Meredith=20 McElroy
mcelroy@gateway.net
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BE1229.52A8B5E0-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:17:05 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: "decent" living Dear Valerie, When I started indexing, oh so many moons ago :), I was told that full time work required having about 8 regular clients. I have found that 8 clients is a pretty accurate baseline number. I'm sure that there are exceptions for this, for example, if you have just a couple of clients that provide you with a continuous flow of work, you probably don't have time for other clients. Or, as you get more proficient, you can easily handle more clients because your indexing is more efficient and therefore faster. As per the original advice given to me, I've found that 8 clients (and this really means publishers who each have several editors all calling you for jobs) is a good goal. "Decent living" means different things to different people. I believe (but I'm not absolutely sure) that there is an ASI income survey available on the ASI web site. And as far as available work-there seems to be more than enough work for everyone. Publishers need good indexers and after establishing a reputation for turning in good work, being easy to work with, and being reliable you'll have more work than you can handle. Good luck! Best, Sylvia Coates Time4faith@AOL.COM wrote: > I've been following the post from the woman who's asking if indexing is for > her (forgot her name?) and she said she wants to make a "decent" living. I, > too, am a brand new beginner and am curious what a person can expect to make > if working at it full time...? And do most of you work for just one or two > publishers? And lastly, (and thank you for indulging me), my experience is > in areas not normally thought of when considering indexing and I wonder if > they are viable areas for indexing. My experience is in theatre, acting, > modeling, and all areas of the performing arts. Perhaps I could index > textbooks for performing arts? Also, religious studies and pets. Any > feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much. > Valerie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:39:06 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: Weinberg's letter in the October 1998 Indexer I was glad to read Glenda Browne's comments in the last digest on the question of whether library catalogues are indexes. However, I am also glad my earlier post that she was responding to, a post which had the same subject line as this one, has provoked no other discussion on Index-l. I have now heard privately from the editor of The Indexer, Janet Shuter, who tells me it was she, not Bella Hass Weinberg, who devised the heading for Weinberg's letter, and of course I gladly accept that no offence was intended. I also understand she prefers discussion of the issues raised by Weinberg's letter to be continued in the correspondence columns of The Indexer, rather than here on Index-l, and I'm happy to go along with that. Simon Cauchi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:22:28 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverlee Day Subject: indexing-is it the right choice? Meredith wrote... I'd love to hear from all the other beginners about how they are = planning to get their businesses off the ground. Meredith, I am not quite a beginner; I have been indexing for around one and a half years now, but I would like to encourage you to perserve with getting clients. I got my clients from writing letters/resumes and then by calling them. I still call them from time to time to see if they have work for me. My first mailing was for around 30 publishers that I found in the Literary Market Place. I sent out 2 other similar mailings after this. I received my first job around 4 months after my first mailing, my second client around 8 months after that. I even received a call from a publisher this summer who had kept my resume on file from several months previous to their need for my services. I know some people get contacts from fellow ASI chapter members. I haven't received any this way, but it would be a good thing to go to meetings and network. I wish you a lot of luck! Beverlee Day Guided by Words bevday@metro2.k12.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:46:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: "decent" living In-Reply-To: <199811171906.OAA28283@camel16.mindspring.com> At 12:17 PM 11/17/98 +0000, you wrote: >"Decent living" means different things to different people. I believe (but I'm >not absolutely sure) that there is an ASI income survey available on the ASI web >site. It's not on the Web. Would you believe, I've had a copy lying here on my desk for almost two years, and just last week decided to put it "somewhere safe". Well, wherever it is, it's safe from me. I can't find it. :-( Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:41:35 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? I wanted to comment on Anne's suggestion of periodical indexing as an alternative to deadline-driven book indexing. For those of you who are dealing with a chronic illness this is an excellent suggestion. It is actually an excellent suggestion for anybody who needs to or wants to reduce the stress level a bit and get out of the "deadline rat race". I'm a full-time indexer, and willing to deal with deadlines in their many guises -- projects offered with short deadlines, accepted projects with slipping schedules leading to tight deadlines, publishers of computer books who always run on right turnaround times, etc. It is part of my life, and I can deal with it. That said, I am also always looking for additional clients for journal indexing, so that I can have some steady work to plug any holes in my schedule. And my goal is to have about 30% of my income come from journal indexing, thus reducing the variability of my schedule around deadline projects. The work on journals and periodicals is out there, but it is more difficult to find. You may have to dig a big. Professional organizations in your desired subject areas are often a good source of this work, or if they don't do the production work on their journals, they can put you in touch with the middleman who does would be in a position to hire indexers for those journals. I find that journal indexing doesn't always pay as well as books. But OTOH, you can work pretty quickly on journals. Also, remember that most journals and periodicals publish their indexes at the end of the year or the beginning of the next, so that December and January will always be busy months with short deadlines as you get the proof of the last issue and need to turn in the entire year's worth of issues. Multiply that by however many journals you index and you've got yourself a busy month or two. IMHO, journal and periodical indexing is an area of indexing worth remembering. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:59:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? In a message dated 98-11-17 16:43:20 EST, JPerlman@AOL.COM writes: << Also, remember that most journals and periodicals publish their indexes at the end of the year or the beginning of the next, so that December and January will always be busy months with short deadlines as you get the proof of the last issue and need to turn in the entire year's worth of issues. Multiply that by however many journals you index and you've got yourself a busy month or two. >> The other thing to consider is that a number of journal indexes aren't paid until the final submission. While some companies make interim payments, others make you wait until December for your check. Not a great way to improve cash flow. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:33:32 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Beverlee Day Subject: In-between projects:calling publishers? When you are having slow times, or are just finishing a book without another one coming up, do you contact your clients and ask them if they have any projects? I will call a client when I am just finishing a job to ask them if they have any work; I don't like the feeling of not having any work coming up. I am wondering, however, if this makes me look like I don't have any clients and that I am desperate for work. Granted, I DON't have a lot of clients (I am an "advanced beginner"), but on the other hand, I want to have a steady stream of work available. I don't want to wait a week for them to call me, and if I call them, they will often have something that they can send out to me soon. How do you handle this? If you have a lot of clients, how can it be possible to NOT turn down work? If you don't have a lot of clients and if you want to be indexing full-time (or near that), do you wait for them to call you, or do you contact them? Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences! Beverlee Day Guided by Words Indexing bevday@metro2.k12.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:57:37 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Re: In-between projects:calling publishers? Never be shy about telling clients about your availability! When I am on the hiring end of the process, I really appreciate that information. Nell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:58:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? I have a friend who has rheumatoid arthritis as well as lupus. I don't know if this is a common complication. I do know that if you have joint problems, the length of time you can work per day on the computer may be curtailed. Can any other Index-L'ers comment? We have ongoing discussions about ergonomics and the stress of using computers for hours on hours. For those of us who combine copyediting and proofreading - would these be better avenues for Andrea? S. Greenhouse greenhou@erols.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:04:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: In-between projects:calling publishers? In-Reply-To: Beverlee, Say you have a "gap in your schedule" coming up if you don't want to say you got nothin' at all. I do this all the time and it almost always pays off, either immediately or within in a few days. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:53:22 -0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Hispanic surnames Could anyone help me with a few Spanish and Portugese surnames? I am = trying to identify the last name as opposed to a middle name. For = instance, on the first entry below, should this be indexed as "Correa = Sutil, Jorge" or "Sutil, Jorge Correa?" Jorge Correa Sutil Rogerio Ferreira Pansera Javier Coello Trejo Flavia Viveiros de Castro Norma Corona Sapien Vicente Francisco do Esp=EDrito Santo Gratefully yours, Craig Brown =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing http://www/i1.net/~lastword (314)352-9094 fax: (314) 481-9254 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:32:57 -0800 Reply-To: nkoenig@sprynet.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nicholas W. Koenig" Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Andrea, Carol Roberts is dead right about indexing income being lean and irregular at first. I personally expected this would be the case but it still isn't an enjoyable situation. When no work is coming in, you have to be able to motivate yourself to do more marketing. From what I gather, however, this situation is quite common in any freelancing activity. All freelancers initially face the chore of getting started and this process can take longer than some people can tolerate. I doubt freelancing of any sort is a way to make some quick, easy money. Good luck in whatever you do! Nick Koenig ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:52:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: In-between projects:calling publishers? In-Reply-To: <199811172238.RAA15128@camel10.mindspring.com> At 03:33 PM 11/17/98 -0600, you wrote: >When you are having slow times, or are just finishing a book without >another one coming up, do you contact your clients and ask them if they >have any projects? Sure. I start the call something like "I'm booking projects for next [quarter, month, whatever] and was just checking to see if I need to reserve time for any of your books." I only do it with established clients, but with them I do it fairly regularly. My rule of thumb is I don't approach clients as if I want them to do something for me but rather as if I'm offering to do something for them. Often as not the client will say something like: "I have a couple of books I hadn't assigned yet, but while I have you on the line I'll get them of my list." Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:05:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: "decent" living In-Reply-To: <199811172136.QAA11606@camel10.mindspring.com> At 04:46 PM 11/17/98 -0500, I wrote: >At 12:17 PM 11/17/98 +0000, you wrote: >>"Decent living" means different things to different people. I believe (but >I'm >>not absolutely sure) that there is an ASI income survey available on the >ASI web >>site. > >It's not on the Web. Would you believe, I've had a copy lying here on my >desk for almost two years, and just last week decided to put it "somewhere >safe". Well, wherever it is, it's safe from me. I can't find it. :-( OK, I found it. There are 50 questions on it, but I think the relevant one here is: "What was your gross income from indexing and indexing-related projects in the last 12 months?" 32.7% Below $5,000 11.8% $5,000 - $9,999 9.8% $10,000 - $14,999 5.6% $15,000 - $19,999 8.5% $20,000 - $24,999 5.2% $25,000 - $29,999 7.5% $30,000 - $39,999 4.2% $40,000 - $49,999 2.9% $60,000 - $69,999 3.9% $70,000 - $79,999 2.9% $100,000 or more About 64% gross less than $30k per year. (Figures from 1997 survey) Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:11:12 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: In-between projects:calling publishers? << When you are having slow times, or are just finishing a book without another one coming up, do you contact your clients and ask them if they have any projects? >> Yes, I do call them. This doesn't happen to me that often ( :-) this will come to you eventually!) but every once in a while, for instance, all four jobs I was supposed to do next slip a month and I'm left with nothing (this really happened last spring!). I call my favorite clients and say, "I have an unexpected space in my schedule--do you have any work for me?" I don't think it conveys desparation. The tone of voice to aim for is, "I've found that I'm able to do you the favor of being able to take care of a project for you--would this be useful?" They usually have something, too. Good luck, Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:13:28 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? At 05:58 PM 11/17/1998 -0500, S. Greenhouse wrote: >I have a friend who has rheumatoid arthritis as well as >lupus. I don't know if this is a common complication. I do >know that if you have joint problems, the length of time you >can work per day on the computer may be curtailed. Can any >other Index-L'ers comment? We have ongoing discussions about >ergonomics and the stress of using computers for hours on >hours. I would absolutely recommend experimenting with the high-end voice-reading software. I've seen some recent reviews that speak very highly of the better programs; they are approaching 90% and better in accuracy. Even those of us who are fast typists with no ergonomic difficulties might benefit from trying them out. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:13:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: "decent" living At 09:05 PM 11/17/1998 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: > 3.9% $70,000 - $79,999 > 2.9% $100,000 or more > >About 64% gross less than $30k per year. (Figures from 1997 survey) It's those last two categories that grabbed me when I first saw the survey, and continue to puzzle me. Unless those figures include book royalties, or teaching income, or something else, it's hard for me to imagine earning over $100,000 a year from straight indexing. Even at a primo rate of $5+ per page, this is astronomical. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:36:41 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sylvia Coates Subject: Re: "decent" living Dick, Thanks for locating the income survey! Best, Sylvia Coates > OK, I found it. There are 50 questions on it, but I think the relevant one > here is: "What was your gross income from indexing and indexing-related > projects in the last 12 months?" > > 32.7% Below $5,000 > 11.8% $5,000 - $9,999 > 9.8% $10,000 - $14,999 > 5.6% $15,000 - $19,999 > 8.5% $20,000 - $24,999 > 5.2% $25,000 - $29,999 > 7.5% $30,000 - $39,999 > 4.2% $40,000 - $49,999 > 2.9% $60,000 - $69,999 > 3.9% $70,000 - $79,999 > 2.9% $100,000 or more > > About 64% gross less than $30k per year. (Figures from 1997 survey) > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:05:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: "decent" living In-Reply-To: <199811180219.VAA15189@camel16.mindspring.com> At 06:13 PM 11/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:05 PM 11/17/1998 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: > >> 3.9% $70,000 - $79,999 >> 2.9% $100,000 or more >> >>About 64% gross less than $30k per year. (Figures from 1997 survey) > >It's those last two categories that grabbed me when I first saw the survey, >and continue to puzzle me. Unless those figures include book royalties, or >teaching income, or something else, it's hard for me to imagine earning over >$100,000 a year from straight indexing. Even at a primo rate of $5+ per >page, this is astronomical. Just a hunch, but I suspect those are developers of indexing software, marketers of indexing software, authors of indexing books, etc. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:19:04 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Helvetia M. Martell" Subject: Re: Hispanic surnames Craig: In all these cases, the names in the middle are surnames. The entries for the names should be: Jorge Correa Sutil = Correa Sutil, Jorge Rogerio Ferreira Pansera = Ferreira Pansera, Rogerio Javier Coello Trejo = Coello Trejo, Javier Flavia Viveiros de Castro = Viveiros de Castro, Flavia Norma Corona Sapien = Corona Sapien, Norma Vicente Francisco do, EspEDrito Santo = EspEDrito Santo, Vicente Francisco do Helvetia Martell Indexer of Spanish books Craig Brown wrote: > Could anyone help me with a few Spanish and Portugese surnames? I am = > trying to identify the last name as opposed to a middle name. For = > instance, on the first entry below, should this be indexed as "Correa = > Sutil, Jorge" or "Sutil, Jorge Correa?" > > Jorge Correa Sutil > Rogerio Ferreira Pansera > Javier Coello Trejo > Flavia Viveiros de Castro > Norma Corona Sapien > Vicente Francisco do Esp=EDrito Santo > > Gratefully yours, > Craig Brown > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Last Word lastword@i1.net > Indexing http://www/i1.net/~lastword > (314)352-9094 fax: (314) 481-9254 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:20:18 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: "decent" living In a message dated 98-11-17 20:55:38 EST, infodex@MINDSPRING.COM writes: << About 64% gross less than $30k per year. (Figures from 1997 survey) >> Right.. but remember the survey results were drawn from only 1/3 of ASI members. The ones who responded. It included part timers too. Since I analyzed it for ASI, if anyone wants more infomation they can contact me off list and I can send them survey information. What I found encouraging is that around 36% made more than 30,000 per year. There was a correlation between years in indexing and income. Of course you have to remember that the unsuccessful probably didn't stick around for 6-8 years. Sharon Hughes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:23:52 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: "decent" living In a message dated 98-11-17 21:19:26 EST, you write: << it's hard for me to imagine earning over $100,000 a year from straight indexing. >> There are indexers who run larger indexing companies, employing a number of other indexers. My guess is that they are the high earners. More stress, more employees, more deadlines = more money. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:30:09 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Levenger's editor's desk on sale Hi all, I remember someone highly recommending this some time ago. (It is a slanted worksurface with a shelf for holding an open book or manuscript at the top - sits on your desktop.) I was thumbing thru my latest catatog today drooling over all the goodies, when I saw that the medium size desk is on sale for $79, regular $99. Though some of you might be shopping for a Christmas present for yourself. ;-) Debating on same myself! Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:31:16 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Helvetia M. Martell" Subject: Re: Hispanic surnames Craig: In all these cases the names in the middle are surnames. The entries for the names should be: Jorge Correa Sutil = Correa Sutil, Jorge Rogerio Ferreira Pansera = Ferreira Pansera, Rogerio Javier Coello Trejo = Coello Trejo, Javier Flavia Viveiros de Castro = Viveiros de Castro, Flavia Norma Corona Sapien = Corona Sapien, Norma Vicente Francisco do, EspEDrito Santo = EspEDrito Santo, Vicente Francisco do Helvetia Martell Indexer of Spanish books Craig Brown wrote: > Could anyone help me with a few Spanish and Portugese surnames? I am = > trying to identify the last name as opposed to a middle name. For = > instance, on the first entry below, should this be indexed as "Correa = > Sutil, Jorge" or "Sutil, Jorge Correa?" > > Jorge Correa Sutil > Rogerio Ferreira Pansera > Javier Coello Trejo > Flavia Viveiros de Castro > Norma Corona Sapien > Vicente Francisco do Esp=EDrito Santo > > Gratefully yours, > Craig Brown > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Last Word lastword@i1.net > Indexing http://www/i1.net/~lastword > (314)352-9094 fax: (314) 481-9254 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:40:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: "decent" living Hello all; I'm Patrick. About the Income Survey. Does the survey include part- time and full time freelancers? In other words, the 64% who make less than 30k per year are full-time freelancers? Does this sound right? :-) Thanks; Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:43:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Looking for work HI I have another question. What other avenues of finding work are there besides looking through the "Literary marketplace"? Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:14:37 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: indexers incomes. Okay,, you all drove me back to the data. the following are not scientifically analyzed.. I didn't check everything twice. this was just a scan of the data since you all seem interested in those who earn more. I pulled the top earners. no one earning less than 50,000. that gave me around 44 people. 12 were men 5 took the USDA course 5 took a library school course no one used a video course 4 did apprenticeships. 27 said they were self taught 20 had higher degrees 41 indexed full time 15 did things besides indexing on average they billed 45 hours/week but the top earners billed 60 hrs/week they charged between 4 and 4.50 per page or 40-60/hour only 5 or 6 had employees ON Average they had been indexing for 17 years. Thats the average. there were a number who had been indexing for many more years years.. that explains the self-taught angle. The $100,000 folks had been indexing for 25-30 years and billed 60 hours/week. Okay? Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:17:23 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: "decent" living Re: Earning in the top brackets ......... Dick wrote ...<< Just a hunch, but I suspect those are developers of indexing software, marketers of indexing software, authors of indexing books, etc. >> and Sharon said that some might own indexing companies employing others. Both possibilities. Speaking for myself, I work very, very hard, juggling multiple projects, filling every available moment, and working far too many hours to earn my living. And no, I do NOT routinely command $5/page rates. I'm in the trenches with the rest of you. I guess I'm a workaholic. I am *not* superhuman. I try really hard to build into my life those things that bring Quality of Life. I *do* have a life after work! The moral is that the longer you are in this business, the more your speed and confidence increase. I know that I work very fast, while maintaining high quality in my indexes. I think this increased productivity ramps the earning level way up. For those of you just beginning, you have to factor in the fact that at first you work much more slowly, which will keep your earnings down. As you do it again and again, your speed increases, and this will increase your hourly return. So while your client base is growing, so is your productivity. Both contribute to a higher income as an indexer. I hope this helps. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:40:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: "decent" living In-Reply-To: <199811180339.WAA32207@camel26.mindspring.com> At 10:40 PM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote: >About the Income Survey. Does the survey include part- time and full time >freelancers? > 43.7% full-time professional - more than 20 hrs/wk 41.1% part-time professional - less than 20 hrs/wk 1.6% apprentice 7.1% student 6.1% no indexing responsibilities >In other words, the 64% who make less than 30k per year are full-time >freelancers? I can't tell by looking at the survey. All I know is what Sharon Hughes said earlier about correlation between experience and income. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Who the heck is chris blackburn? Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a return message with the following text: >Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: >chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. >Check that the name has been entered correctly.) Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:51:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? -----Original Message----- From: Richard Evans To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 11:32 PM Subject: Who the heck is chris blackburn? >Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a return >message with the following text: > > >>Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > >>chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. >>Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > >Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? > >Dick I'm getting this too, Dick. I thought it was just me. I can't imagine who he is. Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Information Management ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:57:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Web Indexing Hits the News Once Again! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01BE1285.FA6DC200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Read another article on Web Indexing at: http://www.contentious.com/ Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Information Management ------=_NextPart_000_0064_01BE1285.FA6DC200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Read another article on Web Indexing = at:
http://www.contentious.com/
 
Kevin A. Broccoli
Broccoli Information=20 Management
------=_NextPart_000_0064_01BE1285.FA6DC200-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:56:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? In-Reply-To: <199811180447.XAA03639@camel16.mindspring.com> Richard and Kevin are getting automatic responses from Chris Blackburn, who evidentally did not unsubscribe or set his account to no mail before going on holiday. Just delete them. Everyone who posts will get one for every post. Nothing can be done about it until Charlotte returns. However, it's an excellent reminder for anyone else who might be going away for the upcoming American holiday -- do not set an autoresponder unless you set no mail or unsubscribe ALL lists. Cheers, Deborah (who expects to be deleting a message from Chris Blackburn shortly) shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:19:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Duhon Subject: Re: Hispanic surnames In-Reply-To: <199811172355.SAA21324@indiana.edu> On Tue, 17 Nov 1998, Craig Brown wrote: > Could anyone help me with a few Spanish and Portugese surnames? I am = > trying to identify the last name as opposed to a middle name. For = > instance, on the first entry below, should this be indexed as "Correa = > Sutil, Jorge" or "Sutil, Jorge Correa?" > > Jorge Correa Sutil > Rogerio Ferreira Pansera > Javier Coello Trejo > Flavia Viveiros de Castro > Norma Corona Sapien > Vicente Francisco do Esp=EDrito Santo I do not know about Portuguese names, but in Spanish, names are written first name father's family name mother's family name Ordinarily they should be indexed by the father's family name, so, in your example Correa Sutil, Jorge Susan ______________________________________________________________ Susan T. Duhon Indiana University Axolotl Colony Phone 812-855-8260 Jordan Hall 407 Fax 812-855-6705 Bloomington, IN 47405 USA email duhon@indiana.edu http://www.indiana.edu/~axolotl/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:32:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barczak, Jessie" Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? I have received that same message, too, but do not have time to check it out. I don't want to alert my employer's MIS people to it either, as you can probably understand. It IS annoying ... M. Jessie Barczak Research Analyst Powell Tate Washington 202-434-8533 jbarczak@washington.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Evans [SMTP:infodex@MINDSPRING.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 11:50 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Who the heck is chris blackburn? > > Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a return > message with the following text: > > > >Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > > >chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. > >Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > > Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:48:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martin Ahermaa Subject: Re(2): Who the heck is chris blackburn? Please stop spamming/slamming my gentle and diligent colleague in Toronto Canada, Chris Blackburn! It's not his fault! His e-mail 's server [and mine too] has been hiccuping a lot lately, bouncing posts all over hell's half acre; clearly, INDEX-L's turf, too. As has been abundantly attested on this list Web technology is NOT fully "cooked"--there are glitches aplenty. Rant off, Martin_Ahermaa@tvo.org P.S. TVO= Province of Ontario's Educational Television Network ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:51:25 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Robert A. Saigh" Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? Dick: I've been getting the same message. What is going on here? Anyone know? Rob fugleman@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:05:29 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Erika Millen Subject: Re: ASI survey (was "decent" living) Dick Evans writes: << OK, I found it. There are 50 questions on it, but I think the relevant one here is: "What was your gross income from indexing and indexing-related projects in the last 12 months?" >> Dick, Do you have statistics on what percentage of indexers are freelance/in-house? Just wondering... I've always been curious. Although I imagine the statistics are skewed a bit by corporate rather than individual memberships. Erika Indianapolis ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:56:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Amundson Subject: "decent" living In-Reply-To: <199811180322.WAA19298@jane.penn.com> Sharon Hughes wrote: ...the survey results were drawn from only 1/3 of ASI >members. The ones who responded. It included part timers too. Since I >analyzed it for ASI, if anyone wants more infomation they can contact me off >list and I can send them survey information. What I found encouraging is that >around 36% made more than 30,000 per year. There was a correlation between >years in indexing and income. Of course you have to remember that the >unsuccessful probably didn't stick around for 6-8 years. _________________ I think what new and prospective indexers want to know is how much they can make as solo indexers, not the gross incomes of people who happen to be members of ASI. If the next survey were to include the question How much did you earn last year from your own personal indexing labors, omitting all other income even if related to indexing, the information would be more useful to those of us who want an idea of how far we can go as solitary indexers. David Amundson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:28:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? > Richard and Kevin are getting automatic responses from Chris Blackburn, > who > evidentally did not unsubscribe or set his account to no mail before going > on holiday. > Actually, I'm guessing that he or she is no longer at that email address. Mr. or Ms. Blackburn apparently either changed email addresses or the server crashed or something. Going on holiday would generate an autoreply to the effect that Chris Blackburn is out of the office, it would not render the mail undeliverable. I've been getting them, too-- annoying, but only Charlotte can fix it unless Chris Blackburn is subscribed to the list with a different email address and can fix it from his/her end. -- Sharon W. Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:13:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: Re: Off topic: Warning (phone scam) In-Reply-To: <199811150802.DAA06425@camel9.mindspring.com> At 11:56 PM 14-11-98 -0800, you wrote: > . . . In general, the phone company can do virtually any "line testing" they need to do through the central office or from the street without needing the customer's active assistance (those guys don't hang around on the tops of those poles just to look cool). They are also unlikely to initiate such a test without your request. < We get regular bouts of crackly noise. It usually attacks half the phones -- not always the same half -- in the neighborhood and is not related to the weather or any other identifiable factor. Just lately, my phone has been going dead for an hour or two in the middle of the day. Sometimes unplugging everything fixes it, sometimes not. It's really annoying when you're on line. So, I do get calls sometimes that go like this: [Phone rings] Me: Hello? Voice: He-ey! This here's the telephone man! Just checking the line! Me: Where are you? [Trying to determine how local it is.] Up on Turkey Farm? Voice: Naw, we're rite-cheer at the the base of yer drive-way. You're all fixed up. Take care now. And if I walk to the base of my driveway, which I cannot see from the house, there will be a BellSouth van there, with one guy working on the switchbox and two others providing commentary, one play-by-play and the other color. Cheers, Deborah, who has never actually seen "ha bloody ha" in writing before" shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:27:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: ASI survey (was "decent" living) In-Reply-To: <199811181411.JAA29378@camel26.mindspring.com> Just this: 29% independent contractor 64% employee 8% employer Only 101 of 380 respondants provided this info. I don't know if there were correlations drawn between work status and other factors. It may be possible to publish this again, since there is so much interest in it. The down side is that it is out of date and perhaps misleading. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:34:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: "decent" living In-Reply-To: <199811181453.JAA20057@camel10.mindspring.com> At 09:56 AM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >I think what new and prospective indexers want to know is how much they can >make as solo indexers, not the gross incomes of people who happen to be >members of ASI. The two are not mutually exclusive. Note figures in another recent posting where only 8% categorized themselves as employers. The rest were freelancers and staff indexers. With the exception of the $70k - $100k outliers, I suspect the survey results are fairly representative. >If the next survey were to include the question How much did you earn last >year from your own personal indexing labors, omitting all other income even >if related to indexing, the information would be more useful to those of us >who want an idea of how far we can go as solitary indexers. So noted, but, with the exception noted above, I can attest that the current survey does that. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:37:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Time4faith@AOL.COM Subject: Thank you Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies to me! Valerie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:08:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pauline Sholtys Subject: Osama bin Laden Does anyone know the correct way to index Osama bin Laden? I checked "Facts on File" and they have him as "Bin Laden, Osama," which doesn't seem right to me. Thanks! Pauline Sholtys psholtys@grolier.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:35:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Wright, Sharon F." Subject: Re: Osama bin Laden It is. :-) -- Sharon W. x7255 Rm. 223 Sharon.Wright@Lexis-Nexis.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Pauline Sholtys [SMTP:psholtys@GROLIER.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 1:09 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Osama bin Laden > > Does anyone know the correct way to index Osama bin > Laden? I checked "Facts on File" and they have him as "Bin > Laden, Osama," which doesn't seem right to me. Thanks! > > Pauline Sholtys > psholtys@grolier.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:04:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Toni Williams TPG/SG Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? Yes I'm getting this too. His he on this list? > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin A. Broccoli [SMTP:brocindx@CATSKILL.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 4:51 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? > > > >Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a > return > >message with the following text: > > > > > >>Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > > > >>chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. > >>Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > > > >Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? > > > >Dick > > I'm getting this too, Dick. I thought it was just me. I can't imagine > who > he is. > > Kevin A. Broccoli > Broccoli Information Management ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:08:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Patton Subject: DC Chapter Meeting The DC Chapter will meet Saturday, December 12, from 10 am to 12 noon at the Bureau of National Affairs in Washington, DC. Chapter member to discuss and learn about Web (and other online) indexing from chapter member William Meisheid. Bill recently presented a workshop on indexing at the Information Online 98 Conference and Expo in Chicago and teaches online indexing regularly. There is no fee to attend, but registration is required by December 9 to chapter president Mike Bernier at mbernier@bna.com or 202/452-6395. Parking will be available in the BNA parking lot. From M Street, turn right on 25th and go past two buildings and an alley on the right to 1229 25th Street. (The door should be up, but if it isn't press the buzzer and identify yourself -- the guard will open the garage and you may park in any space.) The Dupont Circle and Foggy Bottom Metro stations are a ten-minute walk away. We look forward to seeing you there! ============================== Deborah E. Patton, Freelance Indexer and DC Chapter Vice-Chair Baltimore, MD, USA 410/243-4688 deborahpatton@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:42:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Anyone interested in NaturallySpeaking voice recognition software and how it can solve ergonomic problems, can e-mail me off list. I also have access to a speaker/mic/trackball mouse combination that can really help folks with repetitive motion injuries. Jeri Lee Sonsie wrote: > At 05:58 PM 11/17/1998 -0500, S. Greenhouse wrote: > > >I have a friend who has rheumatoid arthritis as well as > >lupus. I don't know if this is a common complication. I do > >know that if you have joint problems, the length of time you > >can work per day on the computer may be curtailed. Can any > >other Index-L'ers comment? We have ongoing discussions about > >ergonomics and the stress of using computers for hours on > >hours. > > I would absolutely recommend experimenting with the high-end voice-reading > software. I've seen some recent reviews that speak very highly of the better > programs; they are approaching 90% and better in accuracy. Even those of us > who are fast typists with no ergonomic difficulties might benefit from > trying them out. > > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:49:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? Dick, I'm getting it too. If you come up with a way to get rid of it, let me know. Thanx Jeri Richard Evans wrote: > Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a return > message with the following text: > > >Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > > >chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. > >Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > > Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:56:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "J. Naomi Linzer" Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? In-Reply-To: <199811180438.UAA22180@neti.saber.net> >Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a return >message with the following text: > > >>Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > >>chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. >>Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > >Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? > >Dick I got it too and ignored it. Life is too short. Naomi ******************************************************************************** Ms. J. Naomi Linzer Indexing Services POB 1341 Redway, CA 95560 (707) 923-4361 jnlinzer@saber.net ******************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:55:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John_Sullivan@STRATUS.COM Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? I wonder if Chris realizes how famous he's become? His bounced messages have already generated more traffic on the list than just about any other topic. And here I am adding to it! John Sullivan > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeri Lee [SMTP:indexer@DBIC.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 2:49 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? > > Dick, I'm getting it too. If you come up with a way to get rid of it, let > me > know. > > Thanx > > Jeri > > Richard Evans wrote: > > > Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a > return > > message with the following text: > > > > >Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > > > > >chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. > > >Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > > > > Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? > > > > Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:22:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Day Subject: Error message from Chris Blackburn will be taken care of The error message regarding Chris Blackburn and his inability to receive mail is obviously generated automatically by his e-mail system. Only people posting to the list get the error message, so the redundant discussion of it is probably quite perplexing and dull to the vast majority of Index-L subscribers. Several days ago I sent an e-mail directly to Charlotte Skuster, notifying her of this problem and asking her to look into it. My understanding is that she's out of town (I'm not sure who said so) but that she can delete Mr./Ms. Blackburn's address from the mailing list. So why don't we all be patient and just ignore the error messages until this can be fixed. Thanks... Anne ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:51:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Looking for work 2 > I have another question. What other avenues of finding work are there >besides looking through the "Literary marketplace"? Hi Patrick Besides LMP, I market to individual professors at the university nearest my home, and to printers and publishers in my town. I use my business cards when I write reminders to people with whom I (for example) have coffee and want them to look up or find something for me after we part - I missed one local project (a three volume magnum pus of Central American anthropology by an 80 yr old retired professor), but got another by this business-card-as-notepaper strategy because the author was just finishing her book and had not considered an index till she saw my card. I'm considering advertising in conference publications or newsletters of organizations in the fields I like to index. Martha BWI ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:58:39 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Chris Blackburn Why all the palaver about Chris Blackburn? I've met him, at the Society of Indexers conference in Dublin last year. He's a Canadian indexer and seems to be a nice guy. Something obviously went wrong, but does it really matter? Please, everyone, get off his case. Just delete the offending messages and forget about it. Christine ************************************************************ Christine Shuttleworth, Indexing & Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB, UK e-mail: cshuttle@dircon.co.uk **************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:30:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker Subject: Vacation spam Given all the consternation about the latest vacation (or "mail returned") message, here's the email I posted a few weeks ago. I apologize if the instructions I give here wind up being relevant only to the program our company uses, but even if the specifics are off, it might lead you in the right direction. I changed the setting last week when I worked at home, and it worked beautifully. Didn't get a slew of "Who's Larry Baker and why won't he go away" messages like I did the last time I set it up. And remember what Johnnie Cochran said: "Does the spam repeat? Then hit 'delete!'" Larry Baker UXL/The Gale Group Larry.Baker@gale.com ---------------------- Forwarded by Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing on 11/18/98 04:21 PM --------------------------- Larry Baker 11/02/98 12:36 PM To: INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU cc: Subject: Vacation spam I've gotten busted on this a couple times. I checked with one of our techies, who said there's a way to indicate who gets the messages and who doesn't. Sure enough, I went to our little "Vacation" database, and the default is set to "All messages sent to you." So those annoying little messages get sent to the world! The alternative (which I will now always do) is to click on the "Messages with your name in the To: field" line. Then, only those who are sending ME a message (as opposed me as part of a listserv) will get the vacation message. Our program is called "Out of Office" by Qxcom. Probably other packages have a similar way to change who gets these messages. Larry Baker Larry.Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:38:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Chris Blackburn In-Reply-To: <199811182100.QAA01028@camel10.mindspring.com> At 06:58 PM 11/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >Why all the palaver about Chris Blackburn? I've met him, at the Society of >Indexers conference in Dublin last year. He's a Canadian indexer and seems >to be a nice guy. Something obviously went wrong, but does it really matter? Only to the extent that it would be nice to fix it if we could. If nobody raises the question, then we don't get any answers. >Please, everyone, get off his case. Just delete the offending messages and >forget about it. As the one who started the thread and has been following it since, I don't think anyone is on Chris's case. I chose the subject line just to be distinctive, not to single out Chris for any reason. Next time you see him, tell him we all still love him and he should drop in and say "Hi." Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:56:14 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? I just wanted to chime in here. On my recommendation a number of the Macrex users have installed Dragon Dictate and are using it to create indexes. Those who had the full version installed and took the time to properly train it to recognize their voice are having the greatest success, finding that virtually all Macrex commands and indexing can be done by voice command, leaving their hands free for page shuffling, marking or resting. Note, however, those who have some of the smaller In a message dated 11/17/98 6:19:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, sconroy@SLONET.ORG writes: << >I have a friend who has rheumatoid arthritis as well as >lupus. I don't know if this is a common complication. I do >know that if you have joint problems, the length of time you >can work per day on the computer may be curtailed. Can any >other Index-L'ers comment? We have ongoing discussions about >ergonomics and the stress of using computers for hours on >hours. I would absolutely recommend experimenting with the high-end voice-reading software. I've seen some recent reviews that speak very highly of the better programs; they are approaching 90% and better in accuracy. Even those of us who are fast typists with no ergonomic difficulties might benefit from trying them out. >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:23:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: Re(2): Who the heck is chris blackburn? -----Original Message----- From: Martin Ahermaa To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 8:43 AM Subject: Re(2): Who the heck is chris blackburn? >Please stop spamming/slamming my gentle and diligent colleague in >Toronto Canada, Chris Blackburn! It's not his fault! >His e-mail 's server [and mine too] has been hiccuping a lot lately, >bouncing posts all over hell's half acre; clearly, INDEX-L's turf, >too. >As has been abundantly attested on this list Web technology is NOT >fully "cooked"--there are glitches aplenty. > >Rant off, >Martin_Ahermaa@tvo.org > >P.S. TVO= Province of Ontario's Educational Television Network Martin: I honestly don't think any of us have been, (1) "spamming" (which refers to sending unsolicited e-mail w/ the motive of gaining a financial profit) or (2) "slamming" your friend by our comments. We were simply wondering what was going on with the e-mail and why we were receiving such a response. Lighten up! Kevin A. Broccoli Broccoli Information Management ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:26:19 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Who the heck is chris blackburn? In a message dated 11/17/98 11:47:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, brocindx@CATSKILL.NET writes: > > >Everything I've posted to INDEX-L the last few days has generated a return > >message with the following text: > > > > > >>Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to: > > > >>chris blackburn,TVOntario (The name was not found at the remote site. > >>Check that the name has been entered correctly.) > > > >Anyone else getting it? Can I get rid of it? > > > >Dick > > I'm getting this too, Dick. I thought it was just me. I can't imagine who > he is. > I have been getting them too, and had wondered who *she* is. And, of course, believed the problem was probably due to something completely out of *her* control. ;-) I see that an explanation has been posted, and that Chris is, in fact, a "he". Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:49:47 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Chris Blackburn Richard Evans wrote: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Andrea D.B. Jones" Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Wow! Did I get a lot of replies! I wasn't expecting this kind of response but I sure appreciate each and every one. It has really helped me in trying to make a decision as to whether to continue pursuing indexing. I am especially grateful for the comments on mixing chronic illness, small-fry folk and indexing, plus alternatives to back-of-the-book indexing. I could not get these insights by reading about indexing businesses! I have noticed that almost everyone has mentioned the stress of deadlines. The majority seem to have a week's time in which to crank out a quality product. I have to admit that this is a major potential stumbling block. As far as making a decent living is concerned perhaps it would have been more accurate for me to say that I am looking to supplement my family's income. Of course, it would be nice to make a full-time salary (whatever that is) but I can see that between deadlines, kids, and illness it's simply not possible. How well does part-time indexing work out for those who have chosen this avenue? <> Yes, would it be? :-) Andrea ajones5864@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:23:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: looking for work About a week ago I emailed or called some clients to say I had some openings coming up. Today I got 3 calls in 30 mins resulting in 4 assignments. So don't be afraid to call and say you're looking for work. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:45:47 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? About small kids & homeschooling & starting a business, my experience may be of use to you ... DH & I homeschooled our eldest up through 6th grade; this year he started 7th at a private school. That was a *major* factor in our timeline for my starting to work from home and for DH to start his own business. Your homeschooled child is used to having you one-on-one at practically any time. Finding you unavailable for relatively long periods on a regular basis (you will need prescheduled blocks of concentration time to make a go of indexing) will be a shock unless you can schedule a tutor or co-op class at the same times. When you schedule your blocks of work time, remember there's more to indexing from home than just Writing The Index. You are not only the Project Manager and the Indexer: you are also the Marketing VP, the Comptroller, the Accountant, the IS Manager, and the Buyer for your company. IMHO, you'll want at the very least to find or organize a good co-op before starting any contract work -- better yet, plan to hire a tutor. And if you do change schooling environments drastically -- to a school-like co-op or private school -- you can plan on having even less time and more stress for about 4 months (according to the teachers at our son's school, who are familiar with bringing homeschoolers into a school environment ... ask me again next semester whether 4 months was enough!) Our other son is in Kindergarten at a German-immersion school. Given that both DH & I will be working from home on flexible schedules, we can handle the school commutes. But just with the preparation tasks last summer -- setting up a home office & taking some business courses (and bear in mind we aren't even entering new careers; we both already have education, experience, & visibility in the fields we're freelancing in) -- we found that having a toddler home full time, with or without homeschooling the older child, is 'way too disruptive for any reasonable work schedule. A good alternative would be a nanny -- if we hadn't found this German-immersion school we'd've hired an au pair. Another point about having small children and running your own business. Networking is vital. Be sure you make enough time for associating with colleagues and clients -- continuing your education, building & maintaining your credibility as a professional, and flat-out marketing yourself. The indexing & tech writing community is one of the most tightly knit in terms of mutual support -- a real joy to participate in but you do have to *plan* for the time it takes. Don't be surprised to find yourself hiring a sitter and going out "socially talking shop" 3 or 4 nights and lunches a week, besides spending a lot of time on email, snail mail, and the phone (*without* little pokes under your elbow or little voices in the background!) I have rambled on 'way too much already. Here, anyone want this (slightly used) soapbox? == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:27:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex Support Office Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Oh, I do loooove AOL sometimes -- their mail server crashed this afternoon and, unbeknownst to me sent off a half-prepared message. With apologies to all: I just wanted to chime in here. On my recommendation a number of the Macrex users have installed Dragon Dictate and are using it to create indexes. Those who had the full version installed and took the time to properly train it to recognize their voice are having the greatest success, finding that virtually all Macrex commands and indexing can be done by voice command, leaving their hands free for page shuffling, marking or resting. Note, however, those who have some of the less configurable voice recognition systems are doing quite well, finding it necessary to press the single letters for the menu options or to occasionally correct an entry. It appears that those doing indexes with scientific terms, foreign languages or names require more "horse power" -- both in terms of the voice recognition software and in terms of the hardware -- than those doing indexes which utilitize more general vocabulary words. It is truly amazing to watch the words type themselves onto the screen! And it is a real relief for those with RSI and related problems. It does, however, usually require that the music be turned off and the kids (and dogs) play outdoors -- with some systems the background noises are a real problem. Unless you have a computer guru on call, I suggest having the hardware & software configured by the same person and that you get a money-back guarantee that it will work. A little training can also save you hours of frustration and improperly installed voice recognition systems are a nightmare. Gale Rhoades Macrex Support Office, North America In a message dated 11/17/98 6:19:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, sconroy@SLONET.ORG writes: << >I have a friend who has rheumatoid arthritis as well as >lupus. I don't know if this is a common complication. I do >know that if you have joint problems, the length of time you >can work per day on the computer may be curtailed. Can any >other Index-L'ers comment? We have ongoing discussions about >ergonomics and the stress of using computers for hours on >hours. I would absolutely recommend experimenting with the high-end voice-reading software. I've seen some recent reviews that speak very highly of the better programs; they are approaching 90% and better in accuracy. Even those of us who are fast typists with no ergonomic difficulties might benefit from trying them out. >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:48:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Shrout Subject: Re: "decent" living I personally did not feel that any category in this survey fit me. For instance, I work more than 20 hours per week on indexing but I also have a full-time job. There were other questions equally as frustrating to answer. It does take years to get established, especially part time. If you can meet the deadlines, absolutely critical!, it is possible to do very well. The work is out there. I made one miscalculation early on which is worth relating. I was very content working exclusively for several different editors with one publisher. Then suddenly that publisher's output of books dropped by nearly 50% as did my indexing income. I determined that I needed other clients and started to add one or two a year so that I now I am not dependent upon just one client. Richard Shrout Richard Evans wrote: > > At 10:40 PM 11/17/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >About the Income Survey. Does the survey include part- time and full time > >freelancers? > > > > 43.7% full-time professional - more than 20 hrs/wk > 41.1% part-time professional - less than 20 hrs/wk > 1.6% apprentice > 7.1% student > 6.1% no indexing responsibilities > > >In other words, the 64% who make less than 30k per year are full-time > >freelancers? > > I can't tell by looking at the survey. All I know is what Sharon Hughes > said earlier about correlation between experience and income. > > Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:33:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Maxine M. Okazaki" Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Maxine M. Okazaki" Subject: Re: Voice recognition software (was: Indexing--is it the right choice?) My husband uses Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional. Normally, it recognizes his words just fine, but when he had a sore throat and his voice became slightly hoarse, the program was unable to correctly recognize many of his words. He went back to the keyboard until his voice "came back" because it took too much time to correct the dictation errors. Just something else to keep in mind. Maxine M. Okazaki mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:19:28 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: How Dragon's "Naturally Speaking" Software Can Help Your Marriage... All - Hah! Thought that subject line would get you to open this posting! But read on - - it might be true! As many of you already know, Egghead Software has abandoned retail store selling and has gone entirely online. They have joined with an Oregon outfit known as Surplus Direct. Their phone number is 1-800-753-7877. I recently received a flyer from them offering new, boxed Naturally Speaking for only $49.99 (+ S/H). The regular price for this version (Version 2.02) was $149.00. In my experience (Egghead used to say "eggsperience") they are a legitimate vendor. Now, of course this is Version 2.02. The current version is 3.0, and it has a new engine. So why might this be a good deal? Well, first, the new version sells for $169.95 at PC Connection (a wonderful outfit in New Hampshire. Their mascot is a raccoon, so they can't be all bad!! Call 1-800--800-5555). But wait! There's more! I called Dragon and asked, innocently, if they offered an upgrade path from V2.02 to V.3. "Sure," the young man said. "I can do that over the phone if you'll tell me your serial number. It costs $49.00!" Ah! The plot thickens! For $49.99 (old version) plus $49.00 (upgrade) you have a full-bore Version 3.0! Plus S/H, of course. You use the mike from the old version (the upgrade doesn't have one). The upgrade is free-standing, so you don't have to load the old version first. You can give it to your kids, in-laws, school, church, etc., or load it on the backup computer. This might bring a whole new dimension to conflict resolution in marriages. Now you can just say: "Honey, I don't have time to listen to all that! Tell it to the computer, and I'll read it when I get a chance!" Did I order it? Sure. About three hours ago. I've been anxious to try it ever since the reviews suggested that this technology has matured to the point of being practical, and not merely geekware (Gee! I just coined that term! Nice! Attribution, please!!). I am not promoting this software, and I don't know if it will prove to be helpful. But the $49.99 price for what was on the cutting edge just a few months ago sounds reasonable to me. And if you get both versions the total cost (less S/H) is $99 vs. $167 at PC Connection. It seemed like too good a deal to pass up. Thought you might like to know about this....... Bob ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:35:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Dealing with clients: a happy ending Here's something interesting that just happened to me! (No names to protect the ultimately innocent.) I'd been signed up since October to do an indexing job for a brand-new packager. When I agreed to take the job, she told me that the first-pass pages would come from mid-October to mid-November; the second-pass pages from mid- November to mid-December, and the index would be due in late December. I told her that I preferred to work from the second-pass pages so as not to have to make changes, but that I'd be glad to look the first-pass pages over early so they might as well send them. Meanwhile, I booked myself up with a bunch of jobs, including two big ones due before Thanksgiving (ha ha, trying to finish them right now!). I planned to do this whole job during the month of December. Well, I got an email from the packager saying that the pages all came back early from the typesetter and the publisher had told her they needed the index by December 8. She reminded me that she had sent me first pass pages because the deadline would be tight. Okay. I put in a call to her and then walked around all anxious and annoyed. There was no way I could do that job in the time I had, and she obviously hadn't considered that there might be a problem in moving the deadline up. I worried that telling her so would make her mad at me. She's a new client and I'd like to work for her in the future. But I couldn't do the job. What should I do? (Do any of you get into tizzies like this?) I talked to her politely, explained that the other jobs I had committed to made it impossible for me to do hers three weeks earlier than we'd agreed, told her I couldn't meet that deadline but could give it to her a week later, and offered to help her find other indexers if she wanted to stick with the original deadline. She took me up on that and immediately found someone. And then--this is the happy ending part--she called me back to tell me how impressed she was with me, how clearly I had told her what I needed, how organized I was, how much other work I had...and how much she looked forward to working with me on other jobs! (She really is a very nice editor who had made an honest mistake through not working with freelancers much before.) In other words, setting a clear limit with a client who had asked something unreasonable of me was the best possible thing to have done! I'm hoping my experience will help somebody who's just starting out in the client-relations game....And I'm going to remind myself of it when I get in a tizzy again. By the way, in the years when I was just starting my business, I would of course have kept the job and worked late nights for a week finishing it! Do Mi, feeling very empowered! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:34:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Online computer stores A friend told me about Cyberian Outpost as a good source of software and hardware. I was looking for some items and checked them out and they were the cheapest of the places I checked out. There email is http://www.outpost.com For November they have a special of no shipping charges. Roberta Horowitz rhorowitz@acm.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:52:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nell Benton Subject: Job opening at CQ Hi Folks, I just got promoted out of a really fun in-house indexing job for Congressional Quarterly in Washington DC. I have been asked for recommendations for my replacement. The pay is not great but you can do most of the work at home and the people are lovely to work with. At this point I am only interested in people who live in the DC area because some of the responsibilities will be onsite. Anyone interested? Please email your resume to me at work (nbenton@cq.com) and at home (nmbenton@aol.com.) I am not subscribed to the list at work so please reply directly to these addresses. Thanks! Nell Benton (202) 887-6250 Congressional Quarterly 1414 22nd Street NW Washington, DC 20037 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:45:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Looking for work 2 In-Reply-To: <199811182045.MAA23728@mail-gw5.pacbell.net> At 23:51 11/19/98 -0800, Martha wrote: > > I missed one local project (a three volume magnum pus of >Central American anthropology by an 80 yr old retired professor) The typo (following "three volume") had me ON THE FLOOR!!!!! ;-D Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:51:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: Chris Blackburn In-Reply-To: <199811182136.NAA25466@mail-gw.pacbell.net> At 16:38 11/18/98 -0500, Dick wrote: >At 06:58 PM 11/18/98 +0100, you wrote: > >Only to the extent that it would be nice to fix it if we could. If nobody >raises the question, then we don't get any answers. > >>Please, everyone, get off his case. Just delete the offending messages and >>forget about it. > >As the one who started the thread and has been following it since, I don't >think anyone is on Chris's case. I chose the subject line just to be >distinctive, not to single out Chris for any reason. > >Next time you see him, tell him we all still love him and he should drop in >and say "Hi." > I agree. Nothing is meant against Chris. And even though those server messages are annoying, I think this thread is downright hysterical. It's sort of like an electronic version those "Where's Waldo" pictures, you know 850 people on the crowded "beach" of Index-L and you're supposed to find Chris in the crowd. OK. I need to get out more. Lynn *********************************** Lynn Moncrief (techndex@pacbell.net) TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing *********************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:56:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martin Ahermaa Subject: Re(2): Chris Blackburn Many thanks Lynn for helping to deflate the situation. Must be too much ozone from laser printers in peoples' workspaces! ;-]]]] A regular "tempest in a teapot"! Regarding Chris, one might try ASI membership directory for starters. BTW we had the same bouncing problem in the Editors' Assn. of Canada list in August 1998. Over 20[!] messages were accumulated PER mailbox. Best regards, Martin_Ahermaa@tvo.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:11:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Not just about Chris Blackburn In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981118205158.00805bf0@pacbell.net> I'm with Lynn! I have been cracking up over this. It's what I love most about Index-L. You never know when all we high-intellect types might go peculiar. Hope Chris has got a good sense of humor, though he probably won't see all these msgs if he's got them set to be turned away. Maybe someone should save them for him. Do Mi, I second you too. Not long ago I posted about receiving that manuscript that turned out to be way way way over my head, and freaking out and spending all of one Sunday trying to find someone else to index it. I got a very positive response from that guy as well thanking me for being so professional, instead of what I thought I deserved, which was something along the lines of "I'll never hire you again and I'll make sure no one else does either!" Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://homepages.together.net/~racric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:27:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Thomas P. Copley" Subject: ANNOUNCE> Winter Web Workshops Now Open Workshops on the World Wide Web (WWW) for the beginner and slightly more advanced user will be conducted this fall and winter by Arlington Courseware. All four are distance-learning workshops that are conducted entirely by email and the Web. NEW>> GROWING MINDSHARE WORKSHOP: OUTREACH FOR YOUR WEB SITE ^^^ This workshop focuses on enhancing mindshare, that ephemeral quality that causes users to put your site at the top of their short list relating to a particular topic or subject. The workshop covers positioning on search engines and indices, the latest in meta information, including RDF and Dublin Core, as well as publicity and promotion techniques. The cost is $35. For further information, see the Growing Mindshare home page: http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/grow.html DYNAMIC DUO WORKSHOP: XML & DYNAMIC HTML This workshop introduces the beginner to XML (Extensible Markup Language) and some of its major supporting standards such as XSL (Extensible Stylesheet Language) and the DOM (Document Object Model). Covers elementary applications of dynamic HTML (DHTML). The cost is $30. For more information, see the Dynamic Duo home page http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/duo.html TUNE IN THE NET: GLOBAL REACH FOR THE 21ST CENTURY This workshop concentrates on Internet interactivity and assisting the more experienced user in making his or her Web pages into a standout interactive site. It is a sequel to Make the Link: The cost is $40. For additional information, see the Tune In the Net home page: http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/tune.html MAKE THE LINK WORKSHOP: WORLD WIDE WEB FOR EVERYONE This elementary workshop focuses on how to gain maximum advantage from the Web. It covers Web navigation, searching, and beginning HTML authoring. The cost is $20. For further information, see the Make the Link http://www.bearfountain.com/arlington/links.html Package prices are available: $99 for first three workshops listed $109 for all four workshops HOW TO SIGN UP Sign up for ONE session of each workshop only unless you plan to take it more than once. To sign up, please send an email message to the address: majordomo@arlington.com and in the body of the message: Include the words: To subscribe to: Dates: ------------------ ---------------- ------ subscribe grow-dec Dec session of Mindshare Dec 10-Jan 15 subscribe grow-jan Jan session of Mindshare Jan 4-Feb 12 subscribe duo-dec Dec session of Dynamic Duo Dec 1-Jan 8 subscribe duo-jan Jan session of Dynamic Duo Jan 4-Feb 12 subscribe tune-dec Dec session of Tune In the Net Dec 1-Jan 22 subscribe tune-jan Jan session of Tune In the Net Jan 4-Feb 28 subscribe links-dec Dec session of Make the Link Dec 1-Jan 22 subscribe links-jan Jan session of Make the Link Jan 4-Feb 28 This will automatically put you on the mailing list for more information about each workshop, and you will receive an acknowledgment with the particulars about signing up, and unsubscribing, should you decide not to participate. If you have any difficulty with this procedure or fail to receive a response, please send email to the address in the signature line. * A plain ASCII text version is also available. ________________________________________________________________ THOMAS P. COPLEY tcopley@arlington.com Growing Mindshare Workshop www.bearfountain.com/arlington/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:04:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Robin Hilp wrote: > Another point about having small children and running your own > business. Networking is vital. Be sure you make enough time for > associating with colleagues and clients -- continuing your education, > building & maintaining your credibility as a professional, and > flat-out marketing yourself. The indexing & tech writing community is > one of the most tightly knit in terms of mutual support -- a real joy > to participate in but you do have to *plan* for the time it takes. > Don't be surprised to find yourself hiring a sitter and going out > "socially talking shop" 3 or 4 nights and lunches a week, besides > spending a lot of time on email, snail mail, and the phone (*without* > little pokes under your elbow or little voices in the background!) I agree with Robin that networking is vital to starting and maintaining a business...but "3 or 4 nights and lunches a week"? Not only do many of us not have that kind of time (or the money for sitters), but for many of us, networking that often (face to face) is impossible due to distance. I know of one other indexer living half an hour from me. Others are at least an hour or more away. I live in a mainly rural area about an hour and a half from DC and an hour from Richmond, VA: close enough to make it to DC chapter meetings but not close enough for regular lunch or dinner dates with other indexers. I'm sure that for some indexers, the distances are far more prohibitive. More to the point, this degree of networking is simply not necessary to "make it" in indexing. Reading and contributing to Index-L, going to chapter meetings, getting involved: these are extremely helpful, as more than one beginner on this list can attest (myself certainly included!) I've learned invaluable lessons and received answers to midnight pleas for help through Index-L. I got my favorite client through a recommendation from my mentor. She has been a source of support and encouragement without which this would have been much harder. But all my contact with her is over the phone or by email; she lives on the other side of the country. I attended the ASI conference in North Carolina in 1997, and I go to most DC chapter meetings, which means 4-5 a year; that is the extent of my personal (face to face) contacts with indexers. Yet within a year and a half I've gotten to the point where I have almost as much work as I can reasonably handle on a part-time basis, which I think is what Andrea is interested in. I've had to turn down jobs when I'm too busy, and the "blank" spaces on the calendar are fewer and farther between. So it's not vital to make the sort of time commitment to face-to-face networking that Robin suggests. Robin's point about email and phone time is well-taken, however. (And Andrea, you'll need to make sure you have time to make phone calls without "child" noises in the background. Don't answer the phone if the kids are being noisy. Use an answering machine, and call back as soon as you can quiet them down.) However, a lot of the email time can be done in snatches, or with the kids playing or bawling in the background, or at one in the morning. Marketing phone calls, of course, need to be made during the day; calls to indexing friends can be made at whatever time is convenient to both indexers. (Andrea, I find that judicious use of a video or half-hour tv show, combined with a rule that you can't interrupt Mommy when she's making a business call, allows me to make calls to clients or potential clients without sounding unprofessional.) My point is this: commit the time to learning indexing skills and marketing yourself. Go to chapter meetings; participate in Index-L, but don't let that aspect of indexing take over your life. Time is short enough for working moms (or those working on indexing full-time, or those freelancing after a full day at their regular job.) Networking is important, but getting an index completed on deadline is what pays the bills. Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net Wordsmith Indexing Services 8112 Harrison Dr. King George, VA 22485 (540) 775-4072 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Indexing computer manuals: A workshop In-Reply-To: <199811181836.NAA09707@camel9.mindspring.com> The Carolina Chapter of the Society for Technical Communication (STC) is offering a one-day workshop on indexing computer manuals. The session is on Saturday, December 5, in Raleigh, NC. Are you a technical writer who has to create indexes for the books you write? Are you an indexer looking for tips on indexing computer manuals? Do you want to create an index that reflects the quality of the rest of the book but you just don't know where to begin? The Carolina Chapter of the STC has a workshop for you: Indexing Computer Manuals, by Richard (Dick) Evans, President of Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. The workshop is one day of lecture and exercises and addresses the following questions. - What is an index? - What are the building blocks of an index? - What does an index look like? - How do I select material for the index? - How do edit the finished product? - How do I ensure the index meets my readers' needs? See: http://es54198.easystreet.com/region2/ncc/www/edtraining2.html#top.workshop. index for details. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:07:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Back Words Indexing Subject: Re: Looking for work 2 >> I missed one local project (a three volume magnum pus of >>Central American anthropology by an 80 yr old retired professor) > >The typo (following "three volume") had me ON THE FLOOR!!!!! ;-D Oh dear! If I can ever stop laughing myself, I will stick an "O" in there wher it should be - Let's try "opus"... Martha ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:30:45 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holler Subject: first index on disk Hello, everyone, I am about to send in my first index on disk and need help. The editor has ask for a 'tag line' at the top. She also says 'do not use any tabbing in document and insert a hard return after every full line.' Will someone please explain exactly what is expected. Try to remember that I'm new to this. Although I'm fairly sure about the answers, I'd rather get help from you then to admit to the editor how NEW I am. Like in the saying _never let them see you sweat, try never to appear too dumb to your editor! Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Susan Holler ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:42:58 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rica Night Subject: International multiauthor books The context: a multiauthor book on the psychology of command in the military, to be published by a subdivision of Canada's Department of National Defence. I'm currently copyediting it, and will eventually index it. The authors of the 30 chapters come from various countries, so certain terms are spelled differently according to the paper's country of origin. For example, papers written by American authors refer to "behavior," while those originating in Britain, most Commonwealth countries, and most European countries use the spelling "behaviour." Then there's something called "manoeuvre warfare," which the U.S. authors refer to as "maneuver warfare." The audience will be similarly international, comprising academics, military types, and politicians around the world. I might be able to persuade the client that we ought to standardize spellings throughout, just as we would if all the chapters had been written by the same author or authors. (Of course, we wouldn't change the spellings where they're part of a proper noun, such as the U.S. Army Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences.) But that approach could generate some oddities of its own: a paper by authors from the U.S. Army Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences might look a little strange referring to "behaviour" throughout.=20 In case the client prefers to stick to each author's preferred spellings (as long as they're used consistently *within* that author's paper), I could use some advice from those of you who routinely index international multiauthor books or journals where spellings vary this way. Which of the following options do you favour? 1. Do you index each term twice, with locators reflecting only those papers that spell the term that way? behaviour command under stress behavior in the U.S. Navy maneuver warfare U.S. Army's adoption of manouevre warfare Canadian Army's adoption of 2. Do you put everything under one spelling, with a ^See^ reference from the other spelling? behaviour command under stress in the U.S. Navy behavior. ^See^ behavior maneuver warfare. ^See^ manoeuvre warfare manoeuvre warfare Canadian Army's adoption of U.S. Army's adoption of If so, how do you choose *which* spelling to "prefer" in the index? 3. Do you try to combine spellings artfully into one heading? behavio(u)r command under stress in the U.S. Navy maneuver (manoeuvre) warfare 4. Or.... Thanks in advance for your suggestions. --Rica Night >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Ms.) Ri=E7a Night rnight@inforamp.net Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer, Trainer Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT "Life is just a bowl of queries." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:49:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: first index on disk In-Reply-To: <199811191837.NAA32758@camel23.mindspring.com> Hi Susan, Does she want spaces instead of tabs, or does she want you to use styles that indent the text the right amount? You will need to ask her what she wants on that account, as there are several ways of achieving indents. Also, I have no idea what a tag line is, and I have been submitting indexes on disk or via email for years. I think you can safely ask her what she means by this - your name as indexer? Special notes? The title "Index"? You can ask her what information is usually included in their tag lines. A hard return is a carriage return, the Enter key. You probably already have one on each line. There are some wordprocessors that allow you to put in a "soft" return, with a shift-return keystroke. You usually have to put these in by hand, so if you haven't done it, you are safe. Some people use them to break long lines, so I think she is telling you not to worry about overly long lines, and to let her layout people handle it, instead of you trying to. Jan Wright At 01:30 PM 11/19/98 EST, you wrote: >Hello, everyone, > >I am about to send in my first index on disk and need help. >The editor has ask for a 'tag line' at the top. She also says 'do not use any >tabbing in document and insert a hard return after every full line.' >Will someone please explain exactly what is expected. >Try to remember that I'm new to this. Although I'm fairly sure about the >answers, I'd rather get help from you then to admit to the editor how NEW I >am. > >Like in the saying _never let them see you sweat, try never to appear too >dumb to your editor! > >Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. > > Susan Holler > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= Wright Information Indexing Services http://www.wrightinformation.com +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:55:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: International multiauthor books At 01:42 PM 11/19/1998 LCL, Rica Night wrote: >In case the client prefers to stick to each author's preferred spellings >(as long as they're used consistently *within* that author's paper), I >could use some advice from those of you who routinely index international >multiauthor books or journals where spellings vary this way. Which of the >following options do you favour? >2. Do you put everything under one spelling, with a ^See^ reference from >the other spelling? > >behaviour > command > under stress > in the U.S. Navy >behavior. ^See^ behavior >maneuver warfare. ^See^ manoeuvre warfare >manoeuvre warfare > Canadian Army's adoption of > U.S. Army's adoption of > >If so, how do you choose *which* spelling to "prefer" in the index? I would use Canadian spelling throughout the index, since a Canadian agency is publishing the book. I would not use ^See^ references except in cases where one spelling is so far off from another one that most people would not be able to figure out the preferred alternative. At the moment, I can't think of any, except possibly foreign terms. "Manoeuvre" and "Maneuver" are very close in spelling, and IMO easily recognized by any reader of this particular book--so why have what seem to be redundant and cluttering "See^ references? To help avoid any possible confusion, I would add a simple headnote, indicating that Canadian spelling is used throughout the index (though individual authors' papers utilize the spelling conventions of their countries). Hope this helps... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:10:55 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: amusing quotations from and about indexes A friend of mine is soliciting amusing quotations about indexing, to be printed on the endpapers of an index a friend of hers is doing (I think this is an index to some sort of fanzine, have lost the original message). I thought many of you might have things like this taped over your desk or something. *Please* send them to her directly, Joy_Wotton@email.msn.com , as I haven't time to collate and send them all on -- of course copy to the list if you feel it would be appropriate. See below for examples of ones she already has. Thanks! Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com NCC INDEX QUOTES Index Quotes Brunnhilde, temporarily blinded by helmet Swan, dangerous to tenors Zebras, in attempt to enliven Norma Hugh Vickers Great Operatic Disasters Godfrey s wife Charmian sat with her eyes closed, attempting to put her thoughts into alphabetical order which Godfrey had told her was better than no order at all since she now had grasp of neither logic nor chronology. Muriel Spark. Memento Mori Butter in Irish bogs Journals, British, their brutal tone Wooden leg, never eats pudding James Russell Lowell Bigelow Papers Cabs, necessity of, to modern publisher Cabs to authors, unwarrantable luxury Hilaire Belloc Caliban s Guide to Letters From her room above High Holborn, Phyllis watched in horror as a shoe box full of street names beginning with Tr tipped out of the window. I raced down and brushed cards off boots, bonnets and roofs of cars. But I couldn t get the ones on top of the bus. When I got the proof the reader queried, Have you a reason for leaving out Trafalgar Square? Phyllis Pearson. London A-Z compiler If it is possible to admire a person intellectually for their storage system, I did Anne... kept her clothes in an order logical and convenient, ready for any contingency...each item bore a card which was inscribed with the date and place of its last wearing. Candida McWilliam A Case of Knifes Eggs, fried, bogus Henry Porter Lies, damned lies Every time somebody s autobiography comes out I turn to the Index to see if my name occurs, and of course it never does. I suppose everyone does this. James Agate Ego The jury in the Whitewater fraud trial went into its 24th hour of deliberation yesterday, sending out a public message of despair and bafflement when they asked the judge for an index to cover 700 exhibits, all complex documents. The Guardian And above all my thanks go to Mr Paul Paget for his patient help with the book and index during which process he became my husband. Verily Anderson The Last of the Eccentrics Baron Campbell, 1779-1861, Lives of the Chief Justices. So essential did I consider an Index to be to every book, that I proposed to bring a Bill into parliament to deprive an author who publishes a book without an Index of the privilege of copyright; and, moreover, to subject him, for his offence, to a pecuniary penalty. Oliver Goldsmith, The Citizen of the World He writes indexes to perfection Dorothy Parker: She ran the whole gamut of her emotions from A to B (of what unfortunate actress did DP say this? Was it Margot Asquith?) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:08:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: amusing quotations from and about indexes At 02:10 PM 11/19/1998 EST, Helen Schinske wrote: >Dorothy Parker: She ran the whole gamut of her emotions from A to B >(of what unfortunate actress did DP say this? Was it Margot Asquith?) It was said of Kathryn Hepburn (appearing in a stage play that Parker was reviewing). A lovely collection! Such fun! I've saved a wonderful excerpt of an index from a book by Martin Marty that would fit right in, but I expect you would have copyright problems using it in its entirety. If you're at all interested, let me know privately and I can send you a photocopy. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:33:08 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: 1 Min Salesperson (was Not just about Chris Blackburn) The posts from Do Mi and Rachael remind me of a slim little book that I read when I first started out in business for myself. It was the "1 Minute Salesperson." The one major thing I got was the concept of doing whatever you can to find out what your customer wants and then doing whatever it takes to help them get it. So, if you can't provide it yourself, you refer them to someone who can, or try to help them find out where they can get it. This keeps "sales" from subconsciously meaning _as in used car salesman_ to yourself *and* makes the client really happy. They know that they can trust you. Even if they never need your services, they are very likely to recommend you to someone who does. It really works! I highly recommend the book. The "1 Minute" books that followed this one were not nearly as useful. (I wonder how the "Sex for Dummies" book has been received, to mention the current series craze.) My apologies to all used car salesmen - it is a cliche, but helped make my point. ;-) Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? > > Do Mi, I second you too. Not long ago I posted about receiving that > manuscript that turned out to be way way way over my head, and freaking out > and spending all of one Sunday trying to find someone else to index it. I > got a very positive response from that guy as well thanking me for being so > professional, instead of what I thought I deserved, which was something > along the lines of "I'll never hire you again and I'll make sure no one > else does either!" > > Rachel > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:39:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: How Dragon's "Naturally Speaking" Software Can Help Your Marriage... Not to be a wet blanket but . . . this is for the Preferred version and that version contains a mic which is equivalent to the el cheapo deluxe. You might get by with that mic if your sound card is a really good one, i.e., SoundBlaster, etc. The technical support page for Dragon is: http://www.dragonsys.com/frameset/tech-frame.html Then click on: Hardware compability list. Then click on: Soundcards. That will show you whether you have a sound card capable of producing adequate voice recognition. Dragon's web site is: http://www.dragonsys.com/frameset/product-frame.html. This will show you the differences in the levels of products that Dragon produces. The Preferred version is probably adequate for starters; however, as you progress along your learning curve, you will find it is limited in some major functions, creating voice macros and the ability to build customized vocabularies being the two major drawbacks to Preferred. On the plus side, Preferred does utilize the BestMatch technology which is acoustical and, once trained, is the best in the industry at the present. The Professional version does allow voice macros and the customized vocabularies. If you have any questions about NaturallySpeaking, I'll be happy to hear from you off-list. Jeri Lee ROBJRICH@AOL.COM wrote: > All - > > Hah! Thought that subject line would get you to open this posting! But read > on - - it might be true! > > As many of you already know, Egghead Software has abandoned retail store > selling and has gone entirely online. They have joined with an Oregon outfit > known as Surplus Direct. Their phone number is 1-800-753-7877. > > I recently received a flyer from them offering new, boxed Naturally Speaking > for only $49.99 (+ S/H). The regular price for this version (Version 2.02) > was $149.00. In my experience (Egghead used to say "eggsperience") they are a > legitimate vendor. > > Now, of course this is Version 2.02. The current version is 3.0, and it has a > new engine. So why might this be a good deal? > > Well, first, the new version sells for $169.95 at PC Connection (a wonderful > outfit in New Hampshire. Their mascot is a raccoon, so they can't be all > bad!! Call 1-800--800-5555). > > But wait! There's more! I called Dragon and asked, innocently, if they > offered an upgrade path from V2.02 to V.3. "Sure," the young man said. "I > can do that over the phone if you'll tell me your serial number. It costs > $49.00!" > > Ah! The plot thickens! For $49.99 (old version) plus $49.00 (upgrade) you > have a full-bore Version 3.0! Plus S/H, of course. You use the mike from the > old version (the upgrade doesn't have one). The upgrade is free-standing, so > you don't have to load the old version first. You can give it to your kids, > in-laws, school, church, etc., or load it on the backup computer. > > This might bring a whole new dimension to conflict resolution in marriages. > Now you can just say: "Honey, I don't have time to listen to all that! Tell > it to the computer, and I'll read it when I get a chance!" > > Did I order it? Sure. About three hours ago. I've been anxious to try it > ever since the reviews suggested that this technology has matured to the point > of being practical, and not merely geekware (Gee! I just coined that term! > Nice! Attribution, please!!). > > I am not promoting this software, and I don't know if it will prove to be > helpful. But the $49.99 price for what was on the cutting edge just a few > months ago sounds reasonable to me. And if you get both versions the total > cost (less S/H) is $99 vs. $167 at PC Connection. It seemed like too good a > deal to pass up. > > Thought you might like to know about this....... > > Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:26:29 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Worden Subject: Re: first index on disk In a message dated 98-11-19 13:37:57 EST, Susan Holler wrote: << a 'tag line' at the top >> I'd love to know what this means too. Set commands with indexing software make no tabs or hard returns a cinch, but without dedicated software I wonder how fields other than main entries and turnover lines can be accomplished without them. What technology are you using, Susan? Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:04:48 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "W. Nadine Kruger" Subject: Re: first index on disk I don't know if this will help, but maybe if you go to this link, Susan, it will be more help.... Here's a description from http://whatis.com A tag is a generic term for a language element descriptor. The set of tags for a document or other unit of information is sometimes referred to as markup, a term that dates to pre-computer days when writers and copy editors marked up document elements with copy editing symbols or shorthand. For example, see the set of tags that make up the Hypertext Markup Language (HTML). Nadine -----Original Message----- From: Susan Holler To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 11:37 AM Subject: first index on disk >Hello, everyone, > >I am about to send in my first index on disk and need help. >The editor has ask for a 'tag line' at the top. She also says 'do not use any >tabbing in document and insert a hard return after every full line.' >Will someone please explain exactly what is expected. >Try to remember that I'm new to this. Although I'm fairly sure about the >answers, I'd rather get help from you then to admit to the editor how NEW I >am. > >Like in the saying _never let them see you sweat, try never to appear too >dumb to your editor! > >Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. > > Susan Holler > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:39:07 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Re Preferred vs. Professional Versions of Naturally Speaking All - Jeri Lee wrote: >Not to be a wet blanket but . . . this is for the Preferred version and that version >contains a mic which is equivalent to the el cheapo deluxe. You might get by >with that mic if your sound card is a really good one, i.e., SoundBlaster, etc. >Preferred version is probably adequate for starters; however, as you progress >along your learning curve, you will find it is limited in some major functions, >creating voice macros and the ability to build customized vocabularies being the >two major drawbacks to Preferred. On the plus side, Preferred does utilize the >BestMatch technology which is acoustical and, once trained, is the best in the >industry at the present. >The Professional version does allow voice macros and the customized >vocabularies. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Right, Jeri! I wasn't considering the mike quality - it might be an awful El Cheapo product. But mikes are very inexpensive nowadays, and are widely available . However, I did check with Dragon Systems, and this is what they said about the Preferred vs. Professional versions (not an in-depth comparison): 1. Both versions use the same BestMatch engine; there is no difference in their respective accuracies or syntactical sophistication (Naturally Speaking uses syntactical analysis to determine, for example, if the word "period" refers to an epoch or the end of a sentence). 2. Both versions allow the addition of user-selected terms. The main difference seems to be that the Preferred version lumps all new terms into the same general vocabulary, and the Pro version allows the creation of individual, discipline-specific vocabularies (e.g., law, orthopedics, etc.). But you can get to the same place either way, although I suspect that response time will be somewhat slower if the system has to check through one humongous vocabulary rather than through shorter subject-specific ones. 3. The Professional version allows the creation of voice macros, so that one can, for example, say something like "Connect to the Internet" and the system will do this. Like Hal, or Star Trek. But there is a catch... 4. The Professional version is available only through Dragon Systems. As of today, the upgrade from Preferred version to Professional version costs $545.00. If you just cold-call Dragon and say "I'd like to buy the Professional version," it will cost you $695.00! Pro version is available only from Dragon Systems directly; it is not available through retail or mail- order outlets. At that price I am perfectly willing to start with Preferred version V2.02, upgrade to v3.00, and go on from there at some future date. My experience with expensive, tightly-held software programs that have less sophisticated counterparts is that sooner or later (usually sooner) competition forces the trickle-down of high-end features from the flagship products. I am fairly confident that IBM's competing software will lead Dragon Systems to do this, also ... 5. So, if using voice recognition for more than dictation and basic control of word-processing programs is what you need, then perhaps the Professional version is the software to choose. But if dictation into a word-processor is the primary enterprise, the folks at Dragon say that there probably isn't that much difference between the programs. So, until you know whether or not voice-recognition is for you, perhaps the Preferred version is the Preferred place to start... But either way, upgrading from Preferred version v2.02 will save money: about $70 for the Preferred edition, or $100 if you decide to Go Pro. Just to add a bit more perspective on this. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:04:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: OS perversity I like the Mac system. I like the PC system. I've used both of 'em in various flavors for education, business, and fun. Both systems are sufficiently intelligent to detect when I'm on deadline, so they can crash at interesting junctures. The only desktop computer I've ever known that didn't crash at least twice a week was an Apple IIe. Especially it didn't crash at 2 am when my *ex* was playing his bloody noisy games on it. I suppose if it had ever been used for anything useful it would've crashed alot too. (1/2 LOL) == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:18:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: BACKUPS: A Sad Tale This is your Mother speaking. I caution, exhort and adumbrate that if any of you do not have backup systems in place and available even as we speak you have AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN. No kidding. My main drive died earlier in the week, suddenly and without warning. With eight years of computer experience behind me [and 36 hard drives repaired] this is only the second time I've experienced this particular calamity. For those of you who have so far been blessed with a good, stable system, it is a little like having a good friend die suddenly. There are some early warning signs of imminent drive failure, some of which you may correct on your own. As drives age they may drift out of alignment, or the heads will wear causing read-write irregularities. Running the COMPLETE Scandisk or Norton Disk Doctor will detect and repair this type of accumulative wear. If you have it, the Norton Calibrat program does a more extensive test and repair job. When more than a few clusters are marked BAD, or the number of bad clusters seems to be increasing over time, the drive should probably be replaced. Another possible solution is to ERASE and reformat the drive from scratch. SUGGESTED BACKUP MEDIA When my first drive failure occurred it was only a small unit and I had not yet "advanced" to Windows95. My backup was on a set of 85 floppy disks. My system now stands at 7 GB of drive space and contains four operating systems. My preferred backup medium is magnetic tape, using a Colorado T1000 drive and Verbatim TR1 Xtra tapes [1.0 GB each]. The T1000 will not accept larger tapes, such as the TR2, 3 or 4. Since my hardware investment is so great -- $350 for drive and tapes so far -- I cannot afford to switch to a T3000, which accepts larger capacity tapes. I understand that the Zip drive system is good for backup usage, but my knowledge of this system is scanty. My only impression is that it costs more than tape: the large-size cartridges are not cheap. Windows95 Backup program. Accessible through Start-->Accessories--> Disk Tools-->Backup. This program seems to me unworkable and really obsolete. Too many restrictions on media and drive port assignments. Perhaps it will work for you, though it apparently will only work for TAPE media. I was originally suggesting MegaBack to my friends, since it is the only backup program available -- that I know of -- that allows backing up to floppy disks. Unfortunately, the maker just dropped me a note saying that it is not yet available for Windows95 or NT: 32-bit systems. THIS IS IMPORTANT, since using a 16-bit program to back up a 32-bit installation will TRUNCATE all your long file names, at least. I just did this by accident and spent all of yesterday retyping about 250 entries in my Start menu! However, Microsoft has done something reasonable for once and included a program to maintain and restore long file names in such a working situation: LFNBK.EXE, which may be found in the directory \ADMIN\APPTOOLS\LFNBACK on the Windows95 Upgrade CD, or it may be available online. The instructions are a bit convoluted but the program should work. And of course, if you prefer steam-age computing -- as I sometimes do -- you may always gather your important data into neat piles and scrunch them onto a set of floppies using Pkzip with the "-&", or Winzip [32-bit version only, I assume.] I apologise for the length of this blather, but I'm coming down after a bad week, and I thought some of the information might be useful. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:58:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: "sharing" commercial software (was: How Dragon's "Naturally Speaking"...) In-Reply-To: <199811190507.XAA10320@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Ah! The plot thickens! For $49.99 (old version) plus $49.00 (upgrade) you >have a full-bore Version 3.0! Plus S/H, of course. You use the mike from the >old version (the upgrade doesn't have one). The upgrade is free-standing, so >you don't have to load the old version first. You can give it to your kids, >in-laws, school, church, etc., or load it on the backup computer. Please be aware that giving copies of commercial software (i.e., not freeware or shareware) to your in-laws, school, church, etc., is usually prohibited by the licensing agreement you "sign off on" when you buy and open the software package. In other words, it's stealing and it's illegal. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:47:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? In-Reply-To: <199811190507.XAA10320@mixcom.mixcom.com> >As far as making a decent living is concerned perhaps it would have been more >accurate for me to say that I am looking to supplement my family's income. Of >course, it would be nice to make a full-time salary (whatever that is) but I >can see that between deadlines, kids, and illness it's simply not possible. >How well does part-time indexing work out for those who have chosen this >avenue? > ><would these be better avenues for Andrea?>> > >Yes, would it be? :-) > >Andrea Andrea, my editors (who are at academic presses) usually give me about 4 wks. to index a book, even the little 200-pagers. (I realize that trade books, textbooks, etc., might have shorter turnaround times.) If I were to take book assignments one at a time--that is, without overlapping them--that would make for a *very* comfortable part-time schedule. OK, so let's say you do one 300-page book a month (that comes out to indexing only about 15 pages per business day) and charge $3.50 a page. That's $1,050 a month, or $12,600 a year. Not too shabby for a supplemental income. Those are the kinds of calculations I had in mind when I recommended writing a business plan. So what I'm saying is that, yes, indexing part-time could work out very well for you, if you have the more modest goal of supplementing your husband's income. Accepting only books that have a generous schedule (scrupulously turning down rush jobs) could eliminate a lot of that stress factor for you. But understand that it still takes a while to get to the one-book-a-month level; it takes time to establish your client base. I haven't done proofreading in years and years, so I can't comment on that. But until two years ago, my business was half copyediting and half indexing. A hospitalization for a ruptured disk (my very own floppy disk, ha ha) gave me an opportunity to evaluate my business and write up a new business plan. What I discovered was that I was losing too much money on the copyediting assignments, because I could only get about $17 an hour. So I quit copyediting and never looked back. That doesn't mean that that's the right choice for everyone. After all, $17 an hour if you could manage 20 hrs. a week would be a good supplemental income, too. My decision was based on the need for a full-time income (I have a ballroom dancing habit to support). A couple of things to consider about copyediting. The bad news is that you'll need some training. It's not enough to have a good background in English, have good writing skills, and love to read books. Editors will expect you to be very familiar with the Chicago Manual of Style and will (typically) expect you to take a copyediting test. I think the USDA might actually offer a copyediting course, but I'm not sure. The good news is that copyediting is less stressful, because the deadlines aren't usually as tight or as firm. The other good news is that, as with indexing, there's plenty of work out there. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:08:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Voice recognition software for Macs; OCR software In-Reply-To: <199811190507.XAA10320@mixcom.mixcom.com> I can't remember whether this has already been discussed, but does anyone have any firsthand knowledge of voice rec. software for the Mac? A while back (last spring!), when we were talking about OCR software, I mentioned that I was about to install TextBridge Pro and would report to Index-L. OK, OK, so it's November. Anyway, it works like a dream. It has a teaching mode, which means (like voice rec. software) you can train it to interpret letters and characters correctly, which ups the accuracy very nicely. It also retains the layout of the original (except for vertical and horizontal rules) and has tools for doing lots of other layout tricks (both text and graphics). So it's way cool, and if you want to know more, you can e-mail me off-list. I plan to use it to scan bibliographies. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:37:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Dealing with clients: a happy ending In-Reply-To: <199811190507.XAA10320@mixcom.mixcom.com> Hi, Do Mi. You go girl! (My daughter's favorite expression this week.) What a great story!!! (I hope you will let me use it in my negotiating roundtable at the ASI conference.) And yes, I get into tizzies like that all the time. I'm currently working with a new editor at a press I adore. The original project was to translate a German index into English (for the new English text). He sent me a sample, and I set to work writing an estimate. Unfortunately, the language of the text was very arcane, and the index entries were "whimsical." Furthermore, the original index was written in 1932--so the indexing standards were different and inadequate, IMO--and not very good: visually confusing (because it went down to 4 levels of subs) and (oddly enough) long locator strings. I tried three different approaches, including scanning in the German index, figuring I could save typing time for all the proper names, which wouldn't change in translation. But no matter which method I tried, translating that sucker was going to take more than twice as long as indexing it from scratch. Did I mention that the book is 800 pages long? So I call up the editor. I'm already jittery, because I've never worked with the guy before, and I know he has his heart set on a translation, and I've always worked better with female editors, for some reason. We discussed the economic unfeasibility of translating the index and agreed that I would index the book from scratch (whew!) but familiarize myself with the headings from the original German index and be "guided" by them. So I went back to work on the estimate. The more I worked with the original index, the more I detested it. Now I've got major butterflies in my stomach--you know, those really big blue ones from the rainforest--because I have to propose to ignore the original index all together. But reason prevailed! The editor was persuaded by my argument that the historical document the researchers are interested in is really the text itself, not the index, and they need a proper index to access it. The final round of tizzies came when I finished the estimate and came up with a figure of $7 per page. The editor thought I should charge less for pages with illustrations. So I had to explain that my calculations averaged in the pages with illustrations, and then I sat around chewing my nails and thinking I would lose the assignment. But the editor agreed! And I am now indexing this book, for $7 a page. Times 800 pages--yum. I heartily agree with Do Mi about setting limits and becoming empowered. I think if you are able to figure out what your limits are, willing to talk to clients about them, and able to back them up with reasons, almost everything is negotiable. Scary but worth it, yes? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:52:08 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Rate for "Card Deck" Index Hi everyone, Today I have gotton 2 indexing projects from my favorite client. One of the indexes is Card Deck of 342 cards. Each card looks like an index card and it is 3x5 size. All these cards pertain to multiple questions/answers for nursing exams. Each card has one question listed with 4 multiple answers. The 'correct' answer of the question is explained at the back of the card. Each card will have between 1-3 entries and all these entries are the names of the diseases or disorders. The index has a very limited space available. My qestion is......how much I should charge for each card? Both of my indexes are due on Monday after Thanksgiving weekend. I would appreciate a quick reply as the editor is waiting for my price quote. Thanks in advance. Manjit K. Sahai RAM Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:59:52 EST ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:06:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Re: Vacation spam In-Reply-To: <199811182127.QAA08188@library.lib.binghamton.edu> Hi all, Regarding bounced messages. When they are bounced because someone is gone from their office or on vacation, ignore it and it will go away eventually. I think more mail systems must be offering this option, at least I have been seeing it more. I could set the vacationing person's options to nomail, but then I would have to deal with setting it back to mail when the person returns...too labor-intensive for me. However, if you recieve those messages because the address is no longer good or the person is no longer at that address, please let me know...cskuster@library.lib.binghamton.edu. Do not send messages to the list about this! This kind of message will not go away unil I fix it by removing the offending address from the subscriber list. If it is not clear why you are getting a bounced message, forward it to me and I'll try to figure it out. And please remember, this is not a perfect medium for communication..there are minor and sometimes major glitches. This problem is a minor one, feel free to delete! Charlotte Skuster index-l moderator ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:17:12 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "W. Nadine Kruger" Subject: Hello? Hi, all.... Hadn't seen any posts on here lately....plus, I sent one about chair recommendations and did not see it post! Just doing a test message, I guess... TESTING TESTING!!!!! Nadine ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:57:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jeri Lee Subject: Re: Re Preferred vs. Professional Versions of Naturally Speaking ROBJRICH@AOL.COM wrote: > All - > > Jeri Lee wrote: > > >Not to be a wet blanket but . . . this is for the Preferred version and that > version >contains a mic which is equivalent to the el cheapo deluxe. You > might get by >with that mic if your sound card is a really good one, i.e., > SoundBlaster, etc. > > > > >Preferred version is probably adequate for starters; however, as you progress > >along your learning curve, you will find it is limited in some major > functions, >creating voice macros and the ability to build customized > vocabularies being the >two major drawbacks to Preferred. On the plus side, > Preferred does utilize the >BestMatch technology which is acoustical and, once > trained, is the best in the >industry at the present. > > >The Professional version does allow voice macros and the customized > >vocabularies. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Right, Jeri! I wasn't considering the mike quality - it might be an awful El > Cheapo product. But mikes are very inexpensive nowadays, and are widely > available . The inexpensive ones you see in computer stores usually don't give "acceptable" sound quality. I went through several Labtec and two other brands (I forget the names). The one I found worked was the Parrot with the bias box. There are others, so check Dragon's web site, go to support, then hardware compatibility. > However, I did check with Dragon Systems, and this is what they said about the > Preferred vs. Professional versions (not an in-depth comparison): > > 1. Both versions use the same BestMatch engine; there is no difference in > their respective accuracies or syntactical sophistication (Naturally Speaking > uses syntactical analysis to determine, for example, if the word "period" > refers to an epoch or the end of a sentence). > 2. Both versions allow the addition of user-selected terms. The main > difference seems to be that the Preferred version lumps all new terms into the > same general vocabulary, and the Pro version allows the creation of > individual, discipline-specific vocabularies (e.g., law, orthopedics, etc.). > But you can get to the same place either way, although I suspect that response > time will be somewhat slower if the system has to check through one humongous > vocabulary rather than through shorter subject-specific ones. > 3. The Professional version allows the creation of voice macros, so that one > can, for example, say something like "Connect to the Internet" and the system > will do this. Like Hal, or Star Trek. > > But there is a catch... > > 4. The Professional version is available only through Dragon Systems. And through what Dragon calls "Premier Partners." > As of today, the upgrade from Preferred version to Professional version costs > $545.00. If you just cold-call Dragon and say "I'd like to buy the > Professional version," it will cost you $695.00! Pro version is available > only from Dragon Systems directly; it is not available through retail or mail- > order outlets. See above re "Premier Partners." > At that price I am perfectly willing to start with Preferred version V2.02, > upgrade to v3.00, and go on from there at some future date. My experience with > expensive, tightly-held software programs that have less sophisticated > counterparts is that sooner or later (usually sooner) > competition forces the trickle-down of high-end features from the flagship > products. I am fairly confident that IBM's competing software will lead Dragon > Systems to do this, also ... To my mind, increased productivity means increased profits. It doesn't take many indexes to pay for itself and from then on, you've given yourself a hefty raise in pay AND impressed production editors that you can be counted on to deliver a quality index in a short turnaround situation. > 5. So, if using voice recognition for more than dictation and basic control > of word-processing programs is what you need, then perhaps the Professional > version is the software to choose. But if dictation into a word-processor is > the primary enterprise, the folks at Dragon say that there probably isn't that > much difference between the programs. So, until you know whether or not > voice-recognition is for you, perhaps the Preferred version is the Preferred > place to start... > Absolutely! > But either way, upgrading from Preferred version v2.02 will save money: about > $70 for the Preferred edition, or $100 if you decide to Go Pro. > > Just to add a bit more perspective on this. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:33:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Robin Hilp Subject: tech comm webrings; indexer's webring This message covers two topics -- the immediate merger of the TComm and techwr webrings; and a proposed Indexer's webring. You may have seen some messages about the new TComm webring on techwr-l. This message is in response to a little confusion over whether TComm is a new ring in competition with techwr. It is a new ring but isn't in competition with techwr. Dawn C. Lindley, the creator of TComm, will also be taking over the existing Technical Communications (techwr) webring. This is a real blessing because she has more time & interest to manage a general tech comm webring than I do now. She has the same ideas I did for a tech comm webring (plus a few more good ideas). If you already have techwr code on your page, you'll be replacing it with TComm code. The techwr home page will point to the TComm home page for a while. When everyone is switched over, the techwr ring will go away entirely. And then ... Sometime before the end of the year, the Indexer's WebRing will be operational! Membership will be open to any (G-rated) page that is relevant to indexing. Currently I'm using the term "indexing" to mean creation of back-of-the-book indexes, online help indexes, website indexes that are similar to online help indexes, and periodical indexes. At this point I'd really appreciate your opinions. Should an "Indexer's WebRing" also include sites with indexing-related topics such as library cataloging, database indexing, search engine strategies, ...? (Or are those more appropriate to a different, perhaps overlapping, webring?) == RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:22:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: BACKUPS: A Sad Tale Dave, I thank you for the "warning signs". My brother has been having some problems, so I will share this w/ him and maybe save *him* from a bad week. I have used the Colorado tape backups on two computers at my former business and also on my present computer at home. I bought the 1st after I had a hard drive crash and found out how difficult restoring your system from floppies is. (This was a DOS system, so I'm talking about a relatively few floppies, too.) The tape backup system saved me when the hard drive had to be replaced on this computer a few months after I bought it. One thing I would add is the fact that tapes don't last forever. Although they are expensive, use more than one in rotation, in case one dies. Also, replace them in rotation - I date them as to 1st use and try to buy 1 new one and toss the oldest one every 6 - 9 months. Another thing I recently began doing is putting all my data on one partition of my hard drive. Then I only need to back up that partition on a frequent basis - the whole disc gets done every time I make a major change in setup and monthly. (This means I need to backup or copy files to the data partition from some apps. but most of the time my data goes straight there.) Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? > SUGGESTED BACKUP MEDIA > > When my first drive failure occurred it was only a small unit and I had > not yet "advanced" to Windows95. My backup was on a set of 85 floppy > disks. My system now stands at 7 GB of drive space and contains four > operating systems. My preferred backup medium is magnetic tape, using > a Colorado T1000 drive and Verbatim TR1 Xtra tapes [1.0 GB each]. > The T1000 will not accept larger tapes, such as the TR2, 3 or 4. Since > my hardware investment is so great -- $350 for drive and tapes so far -- > I cannot afford to switch to a T3000, which accepts larger capacity tapes. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:05:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: Re: amusing quotations from and about indexes In-Reply-To: <199811191912.OAA06462@camel10.mindspring.com> At 02:10 PM 19-11-98 EST, you wrote: > A friend of mine is soliciting amusing quotations about indexing My favorite appears on the title page of G. Norman Knight's _Indexing, The Art of_ _Absente auxilio perquirimus undique frustra, Sed nobis ingens indicis auxilium est._ Without a key we search and search in vain, But a good index is a monstrous gain. Knight was not able to attribute it. Underline brackets indicate italicized text in the original. > Dorothy Parker: She ran the whole gamut of her emotions from A to B (of what unfortunate actress did DP say this? Was it Margot Asquith?) < Sonsie said > It was said of Kathryn Hepburn (appearing in a stage play that Parker was reviewing). < It was Dorothy Parker on Kate Hepburn, but note the spelling: A review of Katharine Hepburn starring in a Broadway play: "She runs the gamut of emotions from A to B." - pp. 707-708, _The People's Almanac #2_ David Wallechinsky and Irving Wallace Bantam, 1978 Somewhere in my study, which is out of control, is a whole book of Dorothy Parker that gives the name of the play and the reference for the original.= =20 The People's Almanac series -- there are four -- is an excellent off-beat set of reference books for events that happened before about 1975. If you don't own them, look in a used book store. Beware, though! When I went to look this up, it was at the end of a chapter. I was drawn into an article that started on the next page, "Behind the Front Page -- Great Scoops and News Beats : Oil Industry Exposed," and lost fifteen minutes. Editor-reporter Ida Tarbell wrote a 19-article documented expos=E9 on Standard Oil for _McClure's Magazine_ beginning in November, 1902. When she was handed the assignment, for an in-depth business profile, her publisher was expecting "a puff piece extolling the virtues of a public-spirited corporation." The series ran for two years; by 1906, Standard Oil was fighting 14 separate antitrust suits. In 1911, a US Supreme Court decision led to the dismantling of Standard Oil. (Ibid, pp. 709-710) All have excellent indexes. Is anyone on Index-L responsible? Cheers, Deborah, who is not receiving 100% of her e-mail shawd@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:15:02 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peg Mauer Subject: Re: New York State Sales Tax? Kevin A. Broccoli says: > Yes, in New York State (where I live and do business) you must charge sales > tax on any and all services. This may seems strange as this is not the case > in most states, where you only need to charge sales tax on products sold. I live and do business in NY too, and I was surprised by Kevin's answer so I just called my CPA to check. His office wasn't sure (!) so they referred me to the NY State (800-462-8100) where I talked to a Sales Tax Law specialist. After I explained that I'm a sole proprietor and what I do as an Indexer and Technical Writer, She checked with her supervisor, and told me that "no, writing copy is non-taxable; it's a non-enumerated service." She said that "repair to tangibles is taxable, like car repair or computer repair." But the service that I perform is not taxable. She is going to send me a copy of a hearing, which explains what she told me. She thinks that this info may also be on their web site (www.tax.state.ny.us) under Publications and Advisory Opinions. Peg Mauer phone: (518) 359-8616 Indexing, Technical Writing fax: (518) 359-8235 http://www.ASIndexing.org <-- What's Indexing? http://es54198.easystreet.com/pics/indexing/ <-- Manager of STC Indexing SIG http://members.aol.com/Pmauer <-- See my award-winning web site! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:40:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ellen Brink Organization: uakron.edu Subject: insurance This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AA90976F4D169F80F7E0C98F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I just met with my insurance agent yesterday and we discussed the necessity of professional liability insurance. I am still in the very early stages of the indexing biz and do not think such a policy would be in my best interest at this point, but he suggested that I might want this protection down the road. I wonder if a few of you seasoned pros would be kind enough to give your personal opinions/experiences with this. Thanks. Ellen Brink bellen1@uakron.edu --------------AA90976F4D169F80F7E0C98F Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Ellen Brink Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Ellen Brink n:Brink;Ellen email;internet:bellen1@uakron.edu tel;work:(330) 929-4104 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard --------------AA90976F4D169F80F7E0C98F-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:12:35 -0500 Reply-To: christop@pathcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christopher Blackburn Subject: Chris Blackburn I have been advised (thanks, Ginette Chandonnet and Martin Ahermaa) that I (Chris Blackburn) am a subject of discussion on the list. Although it may not be possible to prove my existence by logical argument, rest assured that I do exist. But please don't send e-mail to my old TVO address. My present e-mail address is christop@pathcom.com I unsubscribed from the list in January (decided I was spending too much time with it); tried to resubscribe yesterday, but failed ("fatal error" in message: does the address LISTSERV@BINGVMB.BITNET no longer exist?). Will try again. When I was on the list I usually lurked, rarely sent messages to the list, but occasionally corresponded with individual members. This message is meant for all Index-L subscribers. If you received it and wish to let me know about it, send me an e-mail at the address above (but only if your name ends in a or b, for now, just in case the server gets flooded). As I said, I will try to get back on the list again. I may ask for the "digest" this time; this should give me a chance to peruse contents more quickly, though a day late. Warmest regards to all from Chris (also known as Christopher) Blackburn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:51:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Kennedy Subject: list procedures I'm sorry, but I can't find the subscription info in my files. Would someone please tell me how to set "no-mail" if possible, and if not, how to unsub. Thanks! Carol Kennedy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:53:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barry Rofman Organization: @Home Network Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? Carol, I'm very interested in working with university presses on a part-time basis. Could you give me any marketing tips? I'm just beginning my indexing education but hope to be up and running in 6 months. Thanks. Rebecca R. Carol Roberts wrote: > Andrea, my editors (who are at academic presses) usually give me about 4 > wks. to index a book, even the little 200-pagers. (I realize that trade > books, textbooks, etc., might have shorter turnaround times.) If I were to > take book assignments one at a time--that is, without overlapping > them--that would make for a *very* comfortable part-time schedule. OK, so > let's say you do one 300-page book a month (that comes out to indexing only > about 15 pages per business day) and charge $3.50 a page. That's $1,050 a > month, or $12,600 a year. Not too shabby for a supplemental income. Those > are the kinds of calculations I had in mind when I recommended writing a > business plan. So what I'm saying is that, yes, indexing part-time could > work out very well for you, if you have the more modest goal of > supplementing your husband's income. Accepting only books that have a > generous schedule (scrupulously turning down rush jobs) could eliminate a > lot of that stress factor for you. > > But understand that it still takes a while to get to the one-book-a-month > level; it takes time to establish your client base. > > I haven't done proofreading in years and years, so I can't comment on that. > But until two years ago, my business was half copyediting and half > indexing. A hospitalization for a ruptured disk (my very own floppy disk, > ha ha) gave me an opportunity to evaluate my business and write up a new > business plan. What I discovered was that I was losing too much money on > the copyediting assignments, because I could only get about $17 an hour. So > I quit copyediting and never looked back. That doesn't mean that that's the > right choice for everyone. After all, $17 an hour if you could manage 20 > hrs. a week would be a good supplemental income, too. My decision was based > on the need for a full-time income (I have a ballroom dancing habit to > support). > > A couple of things to consider about copyediting. The bad news is that > you'll need some training. It's not enough to have a good background in > English, have good writing skills, and love to read books. Editors will > expect you to be very familiar with the Chicago Manual of Style and will > (typically) expect you to take a copyediting test. I think the USDA might > actually offer a copyediting course, but I'm not sure. The good news is > that copyediting is less stressful, because the deadlines aren't usually as > tight or as firm. The other good news is that, as with indexing, there's > plenty of work out there. > > Cheers, > > Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My > Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. > Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer > http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:43:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: BACKUPS: A Sad Tale In a message dated 98-11-19 18:23:19 EST, you write: << I caution, exhort and adumbrate that if any of you do not have backup systems in place and available even as we speak you have AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN. No kidding. >> And please remember to TEST your backup system to see if it really works. I know someone who backed up several MB of client files to a new backup system, then deleted the files from his computer. After putting a lot of new files on his computer, which destroyed his ability to undelete the old files, he went to retrieve an old file from the backup. The drive was defective. I make two backups of my indexes and do it many times each work session. When I finish making entries, and begin the final editing, I save a copy of the unedited version. Just compulsive. But when my computer "crashed" last month on a tight deadline, I was up and running in an hour. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:44:40 +0100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: amusing quotations about indexes I was proud and delighted to see among Helen Schinske's friend's amusing quotes about indexes the following entry: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate Welsh Subject: Re: "sharing" commercial software (was: How Dragon's "Naturally Speaking"...) Carol Roberts wrote Please be aware that giving copies of commercial software (i.e., not freeware or shareware) to your in-laws, school, church, etc., is usually prohibited by the licensing agreement you "sign off on" when you buy and open the software package. In other words, it's stealing and it's illega l. Very true, although a crime that's seldom punished ; BUT many software publishers, if you ask them nicely, will give you permission to give your old software to charities or schools. WordPerfect had and perhaps still has this program. The one time I looked for someone to give my old version to, though, I was completely unable to find anyone who wanted it! Kate Welsh ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:24:14 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing--Is It The Right Choice? In a message dated 98-11-19 18:44:32 EST, you write: << . I think the USDA might actually offer a copyediting course, but I'm not sure. The good news is that copyediting is less stressful, because the deadlines aren't usually as tight or as firm. The other good news is that, as with indexing, there's plenty of work out there. >> Carol What exactly is copy editing? Patrick. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:14:56 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Henry Meyerding Subject: Re: OS serviceability In-Reply-To: <199811192309.PAA09887@uucp1.nwnexus.com> from "Robin Hilp" at Nov 19, 98 03:04:59 pm You should really try Linux. The operating system is really getting user friendly. The Red Hat distribution is very easy to install. I make it a practice to reboot my server at least once a year. They chose Linux to put into the Space Shuttle precisely because it was the most stable and reliable thing they could load on a PC. Once you get used to X-Windows graphic user interface, you'll never want to use a Windows PC again. There are thousands and thousands of applications, the majority of recent ones are natively Internet friendly. It is much faster and more efficient than M$ NT. Oh, there are things wrong with it, but they're few in comparison. Try it. http://www.redhat.com Happy hunting! Henry W. Meyerding > > I like the Mac system. I like the PC system. I've used both of 'em in > various flavors for education, business, and fun. Both systems are > sufficiently intelligent to detect when I'm on deadline, so they can > crash at interesting junctures. > > The only desktop computer I've ever known that didn't crash at least > twice a week was an Apple IIe. Especially it didn't crash at 2 am when > my *ex* was playing his bloody noisy games on it. I suppose if it had > ever been used for anything useful it would've crashed alot too. (1/2 > LOL) > == > RolyBear ICQ 1863181 (Robin Hilp) > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:48:18 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "W. Nadine Kruger" Subject: More Ergonomic Junk Hi, All: With all the talk about keyboards...mouses (mice?) and voice recognition software....I find myself with a big pain in the back!! I am going numb just next to my left shoulder blade. Anyway....just want some suggestions from other people who sit at their computers for hours at a time. A new chair? What kind? What about those fancy schmancy chairs that you kneel in? Or will that kill my knees after awhile?? Load up on ibuprofen? Thanks!! Nadine ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:22:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: marvant duhon Subject: Re: International multiauthor books In-Reply-To: <199811191853.NAA24915@shooter.bluemarble.net> Those are good questions and observations. I personally would come down very strongly against the option to separate different spellings of the same word and include with each spelling only the topics in articles of that spelling. After all, the premise of the book's organization is that there will be an audience from a variety of countries all interested in military topics from a variety of countries. So I would (consulting with the actual decision makers) opt for a single spelling index, if needed (probably not required) with additional entries like "this-spelling: see that-spelling". Mind you, this is my personal esthetics, and other people may have other equally legitimate positions. But I also think a military audience would find this solution the most appropriate one (unlike a book for an audience of literary critics or linguists, which might need to be done differently). Marvant Duhon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:59:01 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sharing commercial software Carol - Your cautionary note is appreciated, and I believe that I might have egg on my face! I have, always and with no exceptions, refused to give or receive bootleg software. I abhor the practice of pirating software. In my off-hand comment regarding version 2 of Naturally Speaking, I thought that giving away an unused, obsolete version of software was ... well... an innocent and charitable act. As the captain of the Titanic said: "I think I might have made a mistake..." The error in my thinking evidently stemmed from overlooking the fact that although the older, obsolete version (v2.02) would remain brand new and unused, the lower price for the upgrade is based on one's owning the older version. This seems to establish a solid link between the two versions and might preclude giving the earlier one away. I surely do not want to urge anybody to do something illegal. So, I advise you: stash it in the closet, drop it down an incinerator, but Don't Give That Old Software Away!! Carol, I still am not certain of the legal nuances of this thing, and I would welcome guidance from more knowledgeable members of this group. But for your kindness in warning us all that we might be teetering on the edge of the abyss, I thank you. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:40:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: International multiauthor books In-Reply-To: <199811191859.KAA27697@decibel.electriciti.com> I have been in a similiar situation to Rica. I have always been expected to copyedit for the largest potential audience--readers in the USA. I know it's language imperialism--but I was trained in consistency and authors have *always* understood this and have always been willing to comply. If you have no support for solitary English (UK or USA) and consistent terminology, please have a decision maker with the publishers call for one standard of spelling in the index. Most readers can adjust to behaviour for behavior or the exchange of esses and zeds. Your index will be best served by using space for the widest possible subject areas and not spelling double postings--widely divergent terminology is another matter and one of those things indexers are paid to determine. My sympathy! Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:56:52 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: International multiauthor books In-Reply-To: <199811191852.KAA21425@pacific.net> I have worked for a press that uses the English or American spellings consistently within chapters, but will vary between chapters, for a multiauthored work. I think this is common. For the index, I would choose the spelling convention that is used by the country the publisher is located in, in this case, Canada, and use only that spelling in the index. Best, Victoria vbaker@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:52:01 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Manjit Sahai Subject: Rate for "Card Deck" Index Hi everyone, Today I got 2 indexing projects. One of them is an index for "Card Deck". There are total 342 cards. Each card is 3x5 in size. Each card has one question with multiple answers on it and the correct answer has been explained at the back of the card. All these cards pertain to questions related to nursing exams for their license. Acc. to the editor each card should have between 1-3 entries and all these entries are the names of the diseases and disorders. It has a very limited space available. My question is......how much I should charge for each card? Both of these indexes are due on Monday after Thanksgiving weekend. My editor is waiting for my quote for this index. I would appreciate quick help. Thanks in advance. Manjit Sahai RAM Indexing Services ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:14:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Shaw Subject: Re: Rate for "Card Deck" Index In-Reply-To: <199811192352.SAA28288@camel23.mindspring.com> Manjit, Decide what rate (r) you would charge for this text if it were on 250-word pages (z). Pick five cards at random, count the words, and calculate the average number of words per card (y). y/250 times r is your rate per card (c) If you'd charge $5.00 per 250-word page if this were text, and the average number of words per card is 100, then charge $2.00 per card. If it doesn't work as neatly as my example, round to the nearest 25 cents. 100/250 times $5.00 is $2.00 per card Cheers, Deborah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:59:51 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: How Dragon's "Naturally Speaking" Software Can Help Your Marr... Rob, Thanks for the tip. I checked out the upgrade info at Dragon Software's web page. This is on the Preferred edition, and your info is correct - except that their price on 3.0 is $199. Now, if we could get on to as good a deal for the Medical/Legal Suite editions, that would really be great ($895)! In a message dated 11/18/98 10:23:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, ROBJRICH@AOL.COM writes: > recently received a flyer from them offering new, boxed Naturally Speaking > for only $49.99 (+ S/H). The regular price for this version (Version 2.02) > was $149.00. In my experience (Egghead used to say "eggsperience") they are > a legitimate vendor. > > Now, of course this is Version 2.02. The current version is 3.0, and it has a > new engine. So why might this be a good deal? > > Well, first, the new version sells for $169.95 at PC Connection (a wonderful > outfit in New Hampshire. Their mascot is a raccoon, so they can't be all > bad!! Call 1-800--800-5555). > > But wait! There's more! I called Dragon and asked, innocently, if they > offered an upgrade path from V2.02 to V.3. "Sure," the young man said. "I > can do that over the phone if you'll tell me your serial number. It costs > $49.00!" > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:59:52 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Off Topic: great storage for tools & "stuff" Hi all, Among my catolog avalanche yesterday was one I had never seen before - and I am glad I gave it a glance. (I am on everybody's mailing list. I get about 15 per day this time of year. Such are the hazards of being a catalog shopper.) This one had marvelous storage pocket "things" to fit buckets (std. pails to 5 gal.) and also a milk crate. I immediately ordered four, three for Christmas presents for my husband, my brother, and my best friend. (She can use it for her horse gear & I needn't comment on the guys.) The fourth was a present to myself, for gardening gear. The prices range from $15 to $20 on most items. They have duffels & storage bags, too, but at a higher price. I imagine I will end up with a few more - they have ones designed for housecleaning, hunting (in camo), fishing and others. If you want to check them out their web page is www.duluthtrading.com. Only a fraction of the items in the catalog are shown there. Phone 800-505-8888 Happy organizing! Ann Ann Truesdale (anntrue@aol.com) TrueWords Freelance Services Yonges Island, SC ************************************************************** If quitters never win, and winners never quit, what fool came up with, "Quit while you're ahead"? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:44:25 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: More Ergonomic Junk In-Reply-To: <199811220000.QAA25603@decibel.electriciti.com> Nadine asks about kneeling chairs. Her imagination matches my experience. Back pain became knee ache with the kneeling chair. Instead I sit on a portable seat that is higher in the behind than in front and is supposed to help one's back be properly aligned--works for me. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 20:32:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin A. Broccoli" Subject: Re: New York State Sales Tax? -----Original Message----- From: Peg Mauer To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: Saturday, November 21, 1998 6:46 PM Subject: Re: New York State Sales Tax? >Kevin A. Broccoli says: > >> Yes, in New York State (where I live and do business) you must charge sales >> tax on any and all services. This may seems strange as this is not the case >> in most states, where you only need to charge sales tax on products sold. > >I live and do business in NY too, and I was surprised by Kevin's answer so I >just called my CPA to check. His office wasn't sure (!) so they referred me to >the NY State (800-462-8100) where I talked to a Sales Tax Law specialist. > >After I explained that I'm a sole proprietor and what I do as an Indexer and >Technical Writer, She checked with her supervisor, and told me that "no, >writing copy is non-taxable; it's a non-enumerated service." She said that >"repair to tangibles is taxable, like car repair or computer repair." But the >service that I perform is not taxable. She is going to send me a copy of a >hearing, which explains what she told me. She thinks that this info may also >be on their web site (www.tax.state.ny.us) under Publications and Advisory >Opinions. > >Peg Mauer phone: (518) OOPS!!! -Kevin A. Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:43:49 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PDepri5514@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Hello? Nadine i got your posting. :-) Patrick