From:	SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu"  1-JUL-1998 15:08:07.78
To:	CIRJA02
CC:	
Subj:	File: "INDEX-L LOG9806E"

Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:44:40 +0000
From:         BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a)
              <LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu>
Subject:      File: "INDEX-L LOG9806E"
To:           CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU

=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 05:10:30 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <ChristineShuttleworth@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Calling Craig Brown

I've been trying to send a message to Craig Brown but it keeps getting
bounced back, and I'm not sure if he has finally received it or not, so
here it is (this has happened several times recently, and I see that
someone else on Index-L is having the same problem - what is going on?)
Craig asked me what book it was that included the name of the rapper Flav=
or
Flav - sorry if no one else is interested.

<<What book, Christine?  (When you have time, of course.)

<It's a book about a graphic designer called Tibor Kalman - heavy on
full-page illustrations, with not a lot of text, most of it being caption=
s
in tiny type - 6pt? - and some of these are white on black - graphic
design, my foot! One of the illustrations is a cover for Interview magazi=
ne
designed by our hero, and featuring the rapper in question. They want it,=

like, yesterday, as they have to send it to the designer in New York
urgently, which is why I'm working on it all weekend. I'm nearly there.

Note: I did finish it by Sunday lunchtime, so thanks again to everyone wh=
o
helped.

Christine =


*************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB
Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797
email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com
or 106234.1745@compuserve.com
*************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:41:09 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Craig Brown <lastword@I1.NET>
Subject:      Re: Calling Craig Brown

Thanks, Christine.  Sounds to have been an interesting work.

I am not sure why you couldn't send me e-mail directly.  True, there are
ambiguous letters and numbers in my address (it is i1.net as in eye one
dot net).

In any case, thanks for the info.  Interesting.

Best,
Craig Brown

On 6/29/98 4:10 Christine Shuttleworth wrote:

>I've been trying to send a message to Craig Brown but it keeps getting
>bounced back, and I'm not sure if he has finally received it or not, so
>here it is (this has happened several times recently, and I see that
>someone else on Index-L is having the same problem - what is going on?)
>Craig asked me what book it was that included the name of the rapper Flav=
>or
>Flav - sorry if no one else is interested.
>
><<What book, Christine?  (When you have time, of course.)
>
><It's a book about a graphic designer called Tibor Kalman - heavy on
>full-page illustrations, with not a lot of text, most of it being caption=
>s
>in tiny type - 6pt? - and some of these are white on black - graphic
>design, my foot! One of the illustrations is a cover for Interview magazi=
>ne
>designed by our hero, and featuring the rapper in question. They want it,=
>
>like, yesterday, as they have to send it to the designer in New York
>urgently, which is why I'm working on it all weekend. I'm nearly there.
>
>Note: I did finish it by Sunday lunchtime, so thanks again to everyone wh=
>o
>helped.
>
>Christine =
>
>
>*************************************************************
>Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services
>Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB
>Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797
>email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com
>or 106234.1745@compuserve.com
>*************************************************************
>


==========================================
  The Last Word       lastword@i1.net
    Indexing
  (314)352-9094     www.i1.net/~lastword
==========================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:04:14 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Celia McCoy <celiam@ICUBED.COM>
Subject:      global typo in page proofs
In-Reply-To:  <9806282312.AA13616@infobahn.icubed.com>

Would you tell an in-house editor that a particular word is consistently
spelled wrong throughout the page proofs?

Celia
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:23:01 -0600
Reply-To:     aelser@uswest.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Art Elser <aelser@USWEST.COM>
Organization: U S WEST Communications
Subject:      Re: global typo in page proofs

I certainly would let the editor know. A problem like this can cause
severe problems in the credibility of the text. And you can enhance your
own credibility as a useful partner in the publishing venture, not just
as an indexer, but as someone concerned with overall quality.

Once you've told the editor, the ball's in her court, and it's off your
conscience. :-)

art
==================================================================
Art Elser    (303) 965-4825 aelser@uswest.com
Information Developer, U S WEST
There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands.

You seek problems because you need their gifts.   Illusions, Richard
Bach
===================================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:43:25 -0400
Reply-To:     dbrenner@javanet.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Diane Brenner <dbrenner@JAVANET.COM>
Subject:      Re: global typo in page proofs

Celia McCoy wrote:
>
> Would you tell an in-house editor that a particular word is consistently
> spelled wrong throughout the page proofs?
>
> Celia

Absolutely. I don't go out of my way to proof, but always let my editors
know about any typos I find along the way.  So far they've always been
glad to get the feedback. You might want to tell your editor about the
error and then ask him or her if they welcome such information.

Diane

Diane Brenner Indexing Services
P.O. Box 206
Worthington, MA 01098
413-238-5593
dbrenner@javanet.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:09:22 -0700
Reply-To:     dmbrown@brown-inc.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "David M. Brown" <dmbrown@BROWN-INC.COM>
Organization: Brown Inc.
Subject:      Re: global typo in page proofs

Art Elser wrote:
>
> I certainly would let the editor know.  A problem like this can cause
> severe problems in the credibility of the text.  And you can enhance
> your own credibility as a useful partner in the publishing venture,
> not just as an indexer, but as someone concerned with overall quality.
>
> Once you've told the editor, the ball's in her court, and it's off
> your conscience. :-)

Absoutely right, but it raises an interesting question.  If the editor
chooses to let the misspelling stand, how do you spell the word in the
index?  :)

--David

 =======================
     David M. Brown
       Brown Inc.
  dmbrown@brown-inc.com
    www.brown-inc.com
 =======================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:28:11 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Cynthia Bertelsen <cbertel@USIT.NET>
Subject:      Re: global typo in page proofs

I always make a list of the typos and outright errors that I find while
indexing books (for example, one book had George Washington's wife discussed
as Mary). In some cases, I have called or e-mailed the editor right away
about blatant, embarrassing errors. Sometimes these erroneous terms are not
actually going to be in the index, but I feel strongly enough about quality
that I do this. In regard to the editor's keeping a globally misspelled
indexable term in a book, well, I agree with Art that once you've said your
piece, that's it. BUT...since as far as I know no editor I have worked for
has ever knowingly kept a misspelled word in the text, but if he/she did, I
would put the correct term in the index and tell the editor that I had done
so. If the misspelling is not something that a reader would necessarily look
for, well, what then? To put the misspelled version in the index does the
reader a disservice, in my opinion.

At 08:09 AM 6/29/98 -0700, David M. Brown wrote:
>Art Elser wrote:
>>
>> I certainly would let the editor know.  A problem like this can cause
>> severe problems in the credibility of the text.  And you can enhance
>> your own credibility as a useful partner in the publishing venture,
>> not just as an indexer, but as someone concerned with overall quality.
>>
>> Once you've told the editor, the ball's in her court, and it's off
>> your conscience. :-)
>
>Absoutely right, but it raises an interesting question.  If the editor
>chooses to let the misspelling stand, how do you spell the word in the
>index?  :)
>
>--David
>

*****************************************

Cynthia D. Bertelsen
Freelance Indexer
Bertelsen Indexing Services
cbertel@usit.net
Web page:  http://www.usit.com/cbertel/

*****************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:44:26 -0800
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Michael Schwilk <mschwilk@ACAD.COM>
Subject:      Re[2]: global typo in page proofs

     Definitely let the editor know.  (FYI, There's an interesting article
     in the front page of the arts section of today's NYT on errors
     slipping though the publishing process due to increasing work loads
     for editors and copyeditors.)

     Mike
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:46:46 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Toni Williams TPG/SG <towilliams@PROCYONGROUP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Rapper's name

I think Flavor Flave--one and indivisible--God help us all. I doubt if
he's ever referred to as "Mr. Flave".

Sounds like one heck of book. Have fun.

Toni
Keep passing the open windows. --J. Irving

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christine Shuttleworth
> [SMTP:ChristineShuttleworth@COMPUSERVE.COM]
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 1998 8:13 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Rapper's name
>
> I need help - quick! I'm indexing a book in which a rap artist called
> Flavor Flave is mentioned. How should I index his name? Should I treat
> "Flave" as his surname, or is the name one and indivisible, like
> Howlin' =
>
> Wolf or Little Richard? "Flave, Flavor" looks weird. =
>
>
> Christine
>
> *************************************************************
> Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services
> Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB
> Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797
> email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com
> or 106234.1745@compuserve.com
> *************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:51:02 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: global typo in page proofs
In-Reply-To:  <199806291404.KAA21445@mail2.bellsouth.net>

Absolutely. I've only had one or two books in the past decade where I didn't
find at least a couple of slips of the key. Some errors -- like a surname
spelled two different ways, 80 pages apart -- are more likely to be turned
up by the indexer anyway. I always mark them and include those pages with
the final index copy. It's a little extra service that takes no extra
significant time on your part and which leaves the editor and author with
good thoughts of you (...and perhaps allows you to feel mildly superior!). A
consistent misspelling, OTOH, is a MISTAKE, not a typo, and you can probably
save everyone at the other end a good deal of embarrassment.

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
              mksmith1@bellsouth.net
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indexer's Discussion Group
> [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Celia McCoy
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 1998 9:04 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject: global typo in page proofs
>
>
> Would you tell an in-house editor that a particular word is consistently
> spelled wrong throughout the page proofs?
>
> Celia
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:06:09 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Jan C. Wright" <jancw@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      electronic vs. paper -- was index cards
In-Reply-To:  <199806281838.OAA16795@camel23.mindspring.com>

I think it is okay to work with index cards once or twice if you need to in
order to get the concept of index entries down, but after that I would
consider it a waste of time. I type faster than I write, and the machine
alphabetizes and sorts 60 times faster than I can. Besides, every client I
have wants an electronic file.

This brings me to a related question - what proportion of your indexes need
to be submitted electronically? What proportion do you submit final camera
ready paper copy for? What proportion do you hand off typewritten indexes
that are later typeset by the publisher? For me, it has been 100%
electronic files for the last 7 years - I have never been asked for camera
ready copy, or only a paper copy. I would love to know the rate of change
for those of you who had the option once of submitting paper copy - has it
changed for you?

Jan Wright

At 02:43 PM 6/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
>First, thanks to all who responded to my questions about copyrights.  It
>has been a gray area for me since my days editing at the Florida
>Department of Education, when I had to research articles for use in
>testing materials.  Now I feel that I have a better handle on it.
>
>I'd like to know what you all think the pros and cons of indexing using
>software versus the index card approach are.  I am writing an article
>for the Tennessee Regional Group of Indexer's web page, but I would also
>like to know for myself.  I myself like the index card approach because
>I like having the cards in my hand, but I'm sure that the time
>consideration would be a huge factor when I begin to get paid work.
>
>I've also downloaded SKYIndex from the Internet.  Does anyone have any
>strong preferences for one type of indexing software?
>
>Thanks!
>--
>Kari Miller
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:03:28 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Norcross <norcross@IPASS.NET>
Organization: Crossover Information Services
Subject:      Re: electronic vs. paper -- was index cards

Jan C. Wright wrote:

> This brings me to a related question - what proportion of your indexes need
> to be submitted electronically?

100%

> What proportion do you submit final camera
> ready paper copy for?

0%

> What proportion do you hand off typewritten indexes
> that are later typeset by the publisher?

 0%

> For me, it has been 100%
> electronic files for the last 7 years

Same for me, for 3 years.  Recently I was asked to provide a
printout and a diskette, but even that is rare--most clients want
an email attachment, no hard copy, no disk.
--
Ann Norcross
Crossover Information Services
(919) 852-0042
mailto:norcross@ipass.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:28:46 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine Shuttleworth <ChristineShuttleworth@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: electronic vs. paper

Ann Norcross wrote:

< Recently I was asked to provide a
printout and a diskette, but even that is rare--most clients want
an email attachment, no hard copy, no disk.
--
Interesting to see how things are going. I routinely provide hard copy as=

well as a disk. Only once so far have I sent an index by email, direct to=

the typesetter, and that was at my own suggestion, because the deadline w=
as
very urgent; the publishers asked for hard copy to be faxed to them as
well. Some of the publishers I work for don't even have email yet. We hav=
e
a lot of catching up to do over here.

Christine

*************************************************************
Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services
Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB
Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797
email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com
or 106234.1745@compuserve.com
*************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:29:07 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Wright, Sharon F." <Sharon.Wright@LEXIS-NEXIS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Getting credit for your index

As legal indexers who index codes, our indexes are usually separate volumes
(usually two, but sometimes as many as four or five). For better or for
worse-- and believe me, sometimes its for worse!-- our names are printed on
the title pages or on a separate page that we have christened the "blame
sheet."  Since it isn't possible for one indexer to handle the updates to a
code index by themselves, usually the names listed are the individual index
"czars" (our own title, obviously!), or the person who is responsible for
overseeing the production and handling the administrative end (meetings,
writing/editing prefaces or users guides, coordinating with the other
departments-- state code editorial, manufacturing, prepress, shipping,
etc.).  I realize that we have a unique product, so I'll be interested to
see the responses of others!

-- Sharon W.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kari Miller [SMTP:karimiller@MINDSPRING.COM]
> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 1998 3:26 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject:      Getting credit for your index
>
> Curiousity may have killed the cat, but hopefully it won't kill the
> newbie indexer!  I'm so grateful for all of you who have taken the time
> to answer my questions.  Thank you very much for your advice and for
> helping me make sense of some of this.  I would have given up long ago
> if it weren't for you all!
>
> That said, I have a few more questions...I'm curious to know how you
> experienced indexers receive "credit" for your indexes.  I have gathered
> from previous posts that the indexer holds a copyright on the index...is
> this the case?  Also, is it at all common to have your name published in
> the book as the indexer?  I have yet to see this in any indexes that I
> have been studying.
>
> One more question...how many of you request a copy of the book as part
> of pay, and how often do you get it?
>
> Thanks again for your help!
>
> Kari Miller
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:02:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Nancy A. Guenther" <nanguent@CHESCO.COM>
Subject:      Re: electronic vs. paper -- was index cards

>This brings me to a related question - what proportion of your indexes need
>to be submitted electronically?

 What proportion do you submit final camera
>ready paper copy for?

 What proportion do you hand off typewritten indexes
>that are later typeset by the publisher?

I've been freelance indexing since 1983 & so have been through the
transition from cards & typewriter to computer. I had one publisher in the
early 80s with such a tight deadline, they picked up my edited box of cards
instead of waiting for me to retype. (Neither the editor nor I wanted to
trust that project to any delivery service)

Early computer-assisted indexes were time savers for me, but publishers
didn't know what to do with the files so they were reset by their
typesetters. Now all my publishers -- computer text, management & medicine
as well as a general jobber take my files as e-mail attachments (Word or
WordPerfect format) & do not expect paper copy from me.  So much of my work
is tight deadlines (sometimes 600-800 pp. in a week) that the extra day
e-mail saves is highly valued!

I've never submitted camera-ready copy, nor been asked about the possibilities.

To add to the discussion, I'd be interested in knowing the way invoices are
submitted. I have one publisher who specifically indicated I could attach
the invoice to e-mail. I have another where I have a separate mailing
address for the invoice, so that goes by postal service.

Nancy Guenther
nanguent@chesco.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:42:11 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         DStaub11@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: electronic vs. paper -- was index cards

Jan asked:
(And my answers apply to scholarly and textbook indexing in the social
sciences and humanities. I think comparing this stuff will be more useful if
people specify their fields).

 <<This brings me to a related question - what proportion of your indexes need
 to be submitted electronically?>>

99.9% (I have one small client that still wants just hard copy) (I assume you
mean disk file, not email). This is true for the last about 6 years (?)

<< What proportion do you submit final camera ready paper copy for?

I have never been asked to do this in 12 years.

<<What proportion do you hand off typewritten indexes that are later typeset
by the publisher? >>

0.01% (see above)

The change for me has been in publishers who will accept a file by
email--about half of my clients, and only a few of them don't also want the
hard copy mailed to them! It's changing fast, though, as they realize that
email can bring them all they need.

Do Mi
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:00:49 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Norcross <norcross@IPASS.NET>
Organization: Crossover Information Services
Subject:      Online quotation dictionaries?

I am trying to track down several quotations I found on the
Internet.  I don't trust the sources; they list only a person's
name, and I've seen enough errors in things I'm familiar with to
know that other errors are out there.  If I could find a citation
that included the name of a work, and a page number, I'd be much
more inclined to trust it.

Bartlett's does not have the quotes I am interested.  Are there
any online sources you would trust?  Thanks.
--
Ann Norcross
Crossover Information Services
(919) 852-0042
mailto:norcross@ipass.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:40:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Craig Brown <lastword@I1.NET>
Subject:      EPA Requirements

I just received a supplier certification form from a large publisher with
whom I've done a small bit of business in the past and find that among
the many things they want to know is whether or not my company is in
compliance with requirements set forth by the Environmental Protection
Agency.  Has anyone else on the list received such a request and if so,
how have you dealt with it?  Having engaged with megabureuacracies all I
care for in past careers I am reluctant to spend the several months I
believe it would take to find out whether or not I am compliant.

Just curious.

Craig Brown

==========================================
  The Last Word       lastword@i1.net
    Indexing
  (314)352-9094     www.i1.net/~lastword
==========================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:09:36 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kari Miller <karimiller@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Thanks

Thank you to all who took the time to respond to my query about software
versus index cards!  I learned a lot from the responses (once again)!
--
Kari Miller
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 15:16:47 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      FWD: Interesting note from t-telcom

I thought this post from t-telcom might interest some of you.
Removed most of header and footer.

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Folks--
  I'm actually just now doing something of possible interest to the group.
I had decided to make a trip to the US and take work along. As it happened,
this has turned into a full schedule of work, which I have managed to
complete on a notebook system, using the Web and email. I have done several
technical reports, some work on a software manual, plus a number of
magazine articles for New Zealand publications--the latter using
"interviews" via email. It has worked quite well, and I have even added new
clients enroute--such as a PR agency in Australia! With payment wired
automatically to my US and NZ accounts, it becomes possible to travel
anywhere for as long as I  please, while keeping up a regular income.
Intriguing, no?

----------

>
>-=-
>>> Mailing list for telecommuting & freelancing                    <<
>>>   technical communicators                                       <<
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>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:55:25 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Roberta Horowitz <RHorowitz@ACM.ORG>
Subject:      Re: EPA Requirements

My guess is that EPA compliance would involve having safety sheets for
chemicals used on the premise etc (and whiteout counts as a chemical).
There is probably an exception for independent consultants as your work
environment would not involve anyone but your self.

Also, EPA would be concenred with dumping of hazardous waste.

Roberta

At 01:40 PM 6/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I just received a supplier certification form from a large publisher with
>whom I've done a small bit of business in the past and find that among
>the many things they want to know is whether or not my company is in
>compliance with requirements set forth by the Environmental Protection
>Agency.  Has anyone else on the list received such a request and if so,
>how have you dealt with it?  Having engaged with megabureuacracies all I
>care for in past careers I am reluctant to spend the several months I
>believe it would take to find out whether or not I am compliant.
>
>Just curious.
>
>Craig Brown
>
>==========================================
>  The Last Word       lastword@i1.net
>    Indexing
>  (314)352-9094     www.i1.net/~lastword
>==========================================
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:07:17 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Kai Wyrill <kai.wyrill@RSS.ROCKWELL.COM>
Subject:      Re: EPA Requirements

btw, they are referred to as MSDS (material safety data sheets), and can
certainly run more than one page. Sorry, that's all I know. My favorite
answer is: call a librarian!

kai



From: Roberta Horowitz <RHorowitz@acm.org> on 06/29/98 07:55 PM GMT

Please respond to "Indexer's Discussion Group"
      <INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu>

To:   Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
      <INDEX-L@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu>
cc:    (bcc: Kai Wyrill/Temporary Employee/RSS/Rockwell)
Subject:  Re: EPA Requirements




My guess is that EPA compliance would involve having safety sheets for
chemicals used on the premise etc (and whiteout counts as a chemical).
There is probably an exception for independent consultants as your work
environment would not involve anyone but your self.

Also, EPA would be concenred with dumping of hazardous waste.

Roberta

At 01:40 PM 6/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I just received a supplier certification form from a large publisher with
>whom I've done a small bit of business in the past and find that among
>the many things they want to know is whether or not my company is in
>compliance with requirements set forth by the Environmental Protection
>Agency.  Has anyone else on the list received such a request and if so,
>how have you dealt with it?  Having engaged with megabureuacracies all I
>care for in past careers I am reluctant to spend the several months I
>believe it would take to find out whether or not I am compliant.
>
>Just curious.
>
>Craig Brown
>
>==========================================
>  The Last Word       lastword@i1.net
>    Indexing
>  (314)352-9094     www.i1.net/~lastword
>==========================================
>
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:31:38 EST
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         sylviap@CHADWYCK.COM
Subject:      Job posting:  Alexandria, VA

     Chadwyck-Healey, Inc., a growing electronic publishing company in the
     arts and humanities field, seeks an indexing editor to develop and
     manage new products.

     The position requires a MLS degree and/or substantial experience with
     bibliographic databases, indexing, thesaurus design and construction.

     Responsibilities include creation of subject thesaurus, authority
     files, indexing manuals; supervision of product content and indexing
     staff.  Must be able to work with and lead indexing teams through
     product start-up; set and maintain high standards of quality and
     production.

     Send resume and salary requirements to:

     Production Manager
     Chadwyck-Healey Inc.
     1101 King Street, Suite 380
     Alexandria, VA  22314
     Fax: (703) 683-7589.
     Email: jobs@chadwyck.com.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:46:11 -0400
Reply-To:     c.mccluskey@snet.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine McCluskey <c.mccluskey@SNET.NET>
Subject:      e-mail delivery of indexes

I have a question about delivery of indexes via e-mail (sorry if this is
a stupid question for non-newbies).

USDA does not allow us to submit indexes via e-mail because of
formatting problems that occur during transmission.  But, according to
several people on the list, over 90% of publishers want indexes
delivered via e-mail.  Is formatting of the index not important to
publishers?  I'm not familiar with the post-index publishing process so,
again, apologies if this is just showing my ignorance and inexperience.
Just wondering.

Thanks to all,

Chris
c.mccluskey@snet.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:32:17 +1000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Alan Walker <alan.walker@S054.AONE.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: electronic vs. paper -- was index cards

Jan Wright aked:

>what proportion of your indexes need
>to be submitted electronically? What proportion do you submit final camera
>ready paper copy for? What proportion do you hand off typewritten indexes
>that are later typeset by the publisher? For me, it has been 100%
>electronic files for the last 7 years - I have never been asked for camera
>ready copy, or only a paper copy. I would love to know the rate of change
>for those of you who had the option once of submitting paper copy - has it
>changed for you?

I agree with DoMi that this probably varies according to the area of
indexing you are working in. I would expect that people working for
technical publishers would submit more indexes electronically than those
working for lower-tech (scholarly and government)  publishers.

My own pattern is that nearly all my clients ask for a file on disc (usually
Word ot RTF format), together with a paper copy. (This may say something
about Australian publishers.)

I used to provide camera-ready copy regularly for a number of clients. Now I
do it only for two, both of whom are government agencies, and the indexes
cover their legislation. For one other client who used to want camera-ready
copy for a loose leaf service, I now update the index by marking-up a paper
copy (with a pen, folks!), and sending it off for in-house input; the index
is published on CD-ROM.

Alan
--
****************************************************************

Alan Walker, Indexer
President, Australian Society of Indexers
10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011

Tel:    +61 2 9368 0174  +61 2 9368 0176  Fax:  +61 2 9358 5593
Email:  alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au

****************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:31:06 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Rachel Rice <racric@TOGETHER.NET>
Subject:      Re: electronic vs. paper
In-Reply-To:  <7760f104.3597d1f5@aol.com>

>Jan asked:
> <<This brings me to a related question - what proportion of your indexes need
> to be submitted electronically?>>


99 % until just this week I finally brought my last dark ages client up to
the 20th century (at the last moment!) by walking her through finding a
downloaded file on her disk. But she did it, so now I'm 100 % electronic
file submissions, YAY!!! This is the client I was doing the 13th century
Jewish mystical leaders and leadership book for. I am happy to announce,
loudly, that the Mystics have Left the Building!!! I lost a lot of money on
that book as I had to do so much research. I doubt I got $10 per hour on
it. But at least I now am knowledgable about charismatic leaders. I'll take
Jewish Mystical Leaders for $1000, Alex.

I'm punchy. Sommmebody ssstop me . . .


>
><< What proportion do you submit final camera ready paper copy for?
>
Never have.
>
><<What proportion do you hand off typewritten indexes that are later typeset
>by the publisher? >>
>
none, now.
>

 Rachel Rice
 Directions Unlimited Desktop Services
 Indexing, editing, proofreading
 http://homepages.together.net/~racric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:34:11 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Marlene London <Profindex@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      ARABIC NAMES

Although I've studied what Mulvaney and the CMS have to say on indexing
arabic names, I'm not sure the following are correct:

Sheik Jabir al-Ahmed al-Sabah = Sabah, Sheik Jabir al-Ahmed al-

Yusef bin Alawi = bin Alawi, Yusef

Hafez al-Assad = Assad, Hafez al-

Sultan bin-Bandar = bin-Bandar, Sultan            (This is how it appears
in my book. Should the hyphen not be there?)

Sultan Quabus bin Said = bin Said, Sultan Qabus

Fahd ibn Abd al-Aziz (king of Saudi Arabia)

Hussein ibn Talal (king of Jordan)

Zayid ibn Sultan Am-Nahayan

Anyone know the complete names (and how they're indexed) of Prince Sultan
(Saudi defense minister), Prince Saud (Saudi foreign minister), and Emir
Kalifa of Bahrain?

An un-Arabic question:  What were the Helsinki accords?  I only know they
were prior to 1990.

Your help would be appreciated!  Can't wait to finish this book!


Marlene London
Profindex@worldnet.att.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 18:32:24 +0000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Markus Lofstrom <markus@LOFSTROM.COM>
Subject:      Online quotation reply

> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_2981989945_84949_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

You might try http://www.iTools.com, then click on Research-It.  I think
this is a terrific resource.  Let me know what you think!

__________________________
Robin Wise Lofstrom
Word to the Wise Indexing
__________________________

----------
>From: Ann Norcross <norcross@IPASS.NET>
>To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L<INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
>Subject: Online quotation dictionaries?
>Date: Mon, Jun 29, 1998, 6:00 PM
>

>I am trying to track down several quotations I found on the
>Internet.  I don't trust the sources; they list only a person's
>name, and I've seen enough errors in things I'm familiar with to
>know that other errors are out there.  If I could find a citation
>that included the name of a work, and a page number, I'd be much
>more inclined to trust it.
>
>Bartlett's does not have the quotes I am interested.  Are there
>any online sources you would trust?  Thanks.
>--
>Ann Norcross
>Crossover Information Services
>(919) 852-0042
>mailto:norcross@ipass.net



--MS_Mac_OE_2981989945_84949_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Online quotation reply</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
You might try http://www.iTools.com, then click on Research-It.  I think th=
is is a terrific resource.  Let me know what you think!<BR>
<BR>
__________________________<BR>
Robin Wise Lofstrom<BR>
Word to the Wise Indexing<BR>
__________________________<BR>
<BR>
----------<BR>
&gt;From: Ann Norcross &lt;norcross@IPASS.NET&gt;<BR>
&gt;To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L&lt;INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTO=
N.EDU&gt;<BR>
&gt;Subject: Online quotation dictionaries?<BR>
&gt;Date: Mon, Jun 29, 1998, 6:00 PM<BR>
&gt;<BR>
<BR>
&gt;I am trying to track down several quotations I found on the<BR>
&gt;Internet.  I don't trust the sources; they list only a person's<BR>
&gt;name, and I've seen enough errors in things I'm familiar with to<BR>
&gt;know that other errors are out there.  If I could find a citation<BR>
&gt;that included the name of a work, and a page number, I'd be much<BR>
&gt;more inclined to trust it.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;Bartlett's does not have the quotes I am interested.  Are there<BR>
&gt;any online sources you would trust?  Thanks.<BR>
&gt;--<BR>
&gt;Ann Norcross<BR>
&gt;Crossover Information Services<BR>
&gt;(919) 852-0042<BR>
&gt;mailto:norcross@ipass.net<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>

--MS_Mac_OE_2981989945_84949_MIME_Part--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:40:01 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Diane Worden <WordenDex@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Online quotation dictionaries?

Ann,
In a message dated 98-06-29 14:15:09 EDT, you wrote:
<<
 Bartlett's does not have the quotes...  >>

How many editions of Bartlett's do you have on hand, and does currency make a
difference? Is the online version a compilation of all umpteendillon printed
editions?
I know nothing about online sources primarily because I don't trust them from
the get-go.
     Diane in Kazoo
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:10:38 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sonsie <sconroy@SLONET.ORG>
Subject:      Re: e-mail delivery of indexes

At 06:46 PM 6/29/1998 -0400, Christine McCluskey wrote:

>USDA does not allow us to submit indexes via e-mail because of
>formatting problems that occur during transmission.  But, according to
>several people on the list, over 90% of publishers want indexes
>delivered via e-mail.  Is formatting of the index not important to
>publishers?  I'm not familiar with the post-index publishing process so,
>again, apologies if this is just showing my ignorance and inexperience.
>Just wondering.

Christine, I've been using .RTF format to deliver indexes electronically for
several years now, and have never had a problem with formatting. Bold,
italic, indents, etc., stay nicely in place. I've never been expected to
turn in camera-ready pages, so I don't know what happens to typefaces, but
that should not really pose a problem. If the recipient doesn't have
whatever typeface you've selected, he or she can change it with a few simple
commands in his or her word processing program.

Are there other facets of formatting that have caused trouble for the USDA
during electronic transfers? I'm interested in what their experience has
been, since mine has been so trouble-free.

        =Sonsie=
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:48:21 +0100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Callum MacLeod <callum@TRINDEX.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Online quotation dictionaries?
In-Reply-To:  <899170872.2018477.0@listserv.cuny.edu>

In message <899170872.2018477.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, Diane Worden
<WordenDex@AOL.COM> writes
>I know nothing about online sources primarily because I don't trust them from
>the get-go.
>     Diane in Kazoo

Surely you mean you don't trust online resources because you nothing
about them.
--
Callum MacLeod
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 07:31:26 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Ann Hudson <AnnHudson@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: electronic vs. paper

As another UK member, I can confirm Christine Shuttleworth's point that
many British publishers aren't really into e-mail yet - even if they have=

it, most of them prefer phone or fax.

I have never been asked to submit an index via e-mail - disk plus hard co=
py
is the universal method and has been for more or less as long as I rememb=
er
(I think the first one I did was about 10 years ago).  Publishers still
mess up my indents from time to time - especially if the job of processin=
g
the disk is put out to a freelance designer who doesn't know about indexe=
s.
 This is in spite of the detailed 'notes for printing' which I always sen=
d,
explaining the disk format, printer codes, and indent and turnover system=
!

I have never done an index in camera-ready copy and have stopped offering=

this service now.

Best wishes to all,

ANN HUDSON (freelance indexer)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:24:44 +0000
Reply-To:     connolly@neca.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Dan Connolly <connolly@NECA.COM>
Organization: WORD FOR WORD Book Indexing
Subject:      Re: e-mail delivery of indexes

I have included below the contents of my only successful attempt to
communicate with the USDA about this subject. I responded to their erroneous
conclusions but received no answer from them. You can't have a dialogue if
only one side is talking. Notice they didn't even nod in the direction of my
second question about attrition rates.

Any thoughts from those who helped design the course for USDA (Nancy Mulvaney
and others, I presume?) would be greatly appreciated. It's too late for me
(I'm on Lesson 10), but it seems ridiculous that indexers, who will be
expected to produce and deliver electronic versions of indexes can't do it in
a learning situation. The course DOES cover aspects of indexing as a business,
so I don't really see the objection.

Dan
--

=========================================
Daniel A. Connolly
mailto:connolly@neca.com
WORD FOR WORD Indexing and Editing Services
www.wfwIndex.necaweb.com
Woodstock, CT, USA
=========================================

Subject:
         Re:2nd request for info/response
    Date:
         Wed, 6 May 1998 17:45:21 -0400
   From:
         Correspond@grad.usda.gov (Cor)
      To:
         Dan Connolly <connolly@neca.com>




We have tried to figure out a viable way of putting this course online.  The
main problem is. . .  formatting.  That is a *big* part of this course and
instructors must be able to tell you are doing the formatting correctly.  As
undoubtedly you know, sometimes e-mail messages get scrambled or at least the
beginning and/or end of lines don't necessarily come out the same.

If we attach files, which is probably the best solution for now, that would mean
that all instructors and students would have to have the same wordprocessing
program.  Electronic transfer is, of course, a big part of today's work for
indexers, but that usually requires the use of an indexing program and the
subsequent cost of both hardware and software.  We have built this course to
allow students who do not have this capability to successfully complete it.  We
don't want to teach indexing software; we want to teach indexing basics.



____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject:    2nd request for info/response
Author: Dan Connolly <connolly@neca.com>
Date:       5/6/98 10:55 AM

I am currently taking CEDIT 360 with xxxx xxxx. I was wondering if you had
considered electronic submission of lessons? I am plodding through the course
slowly and would like to speed up the process. My instructor has e-mail (as do
you apparently) and since indexes done in the real world will often be
submitted electronically, it would be good practice to learn formatting for
electronic transmission now.

I am also interested in finding out about attrition rates for the course. Any
response would be appreciated since this is the 2nd time I have attempted to
communicate with you.

What do you think? .Dan
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:35:04 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Diane Worden <WordenDex@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Online quotation dictionaries?

In a message dated 98-06-30 05:08:16 EDT, Callum wrote:

<<
 In message <899170872.2018477.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, Diane Worden
 <WordenDex@AOL.COM> writes
 >I know nothing about online sources primarily because I don't trust them
from
 >the get-go.
 >     Diane in Kazoo

 Surely you mean you don't trust online resources because you nothing
 about them.
 --
 Callum MacLeod >>

Let me clarify: My brief experience with specific online resources was totally
unsatisfactory re accuracy which led me to not trust them in general. Since
then, and because of my poor experience, I use online rarely. Therefore, I
know very little (practically nothing) its usefulness.
.       Diane in Kazoo
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:19:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: e-mail delivery of indexes
In-Reply-To:  <199806300417.AAA09509@mail3.bellsouth.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indexer's Discussion Group
> [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Sonsie
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 1998 11:11 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject: Re: e-mail delivery of indexes
>
>
> At 06:46 PM 6/29/1998 -0400, Christine McCluskey wrote:
>
> >USDA does not allow us to submit indexes via e-mail because of
> >formatting problems that occur during transmission.  But, according to
> >several people on the list, over 90% of publishers want indexes
> >delivered via e-mail.  Is formatting of the index not important to
> >publishers?  I'm not familiar with the post-index publishing process so,
> >again, apologies if this is just showing my ignorance and inexperience.
> >Just wondering.
>
> Christine, I've been using .RTF format to deliver indexes
> electronically for
> several years now, and have never had a problem with formatting. Bold,
> italic, indents, etc., stay nicely in place. I've never been expected to
> turn in camera-ready pages, so I don't know what happens to typefaces, but
> that should not really pose a problem. If the recipient doesn't have
> whatever typeface you've selected, he or she can change it with a
> few simple
> commands in his or her word processing program.
>
> Are there other facets of formatting that have caused trouble for the USDA
> during electronic transfers? I'm interested in what their experience has
> been, since mine has been so trouble-free.
>
>         =Sonsie=

I routinely send both a paper copy and a copy on disk (in several native
formats) to all publishers and authors now, but I have yet to have anyone
ask for email delivery. I've asked several about it, especially when the
deadline was tight, but either they didn't quite understand what I was
talking about (!) or they said they just weren't ready for that yet....  But
they're paying for the FedEx, so I guess it's no skin off my nose!

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
              mksmith1@bellsouth.net
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:19:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Michael K. Smith" <mksmith1@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Re: Online quotation dictionaries?
In-Reply-To:  <199806300849.EAA13845@mail1.bellsouth.net>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Indexer's Discussion Group
> [mailto:INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU]On Behalf Of Callum MacLeod
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 3:48 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L
> Subject: Re: Online quotation dictionaries?
>
>
> In message <899170872.2018477.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, Diane Worden
> <WordenDex@AOL.COM> writes
> >I know nothing about online sources primarily because I don't
> trust them from
> >the get-go.
> >     Diane in Kazoo
>
> Surely you mean you don't trust online resources because you nothing
> about them.
> --
> Callum MacLeod
>

I think she meant she knows nothing about them, because she doesn't USE
them, because she doesn't trust them (...because she knows nothing about
them...).

Michael K. Smith           Smith Editorial Services
              mksmith1@bellsouth.net
http://members.tripod.com/~smith_editorial/ses.html
 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
It doesn't TAKE all kinds -- we just HAVE all kinds
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:33:40 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Larry.Baker@GALE.COM
Subject:      Re: e-mail delivery of indexes

Regarding indexes and formatting (and what happens to it when emailed), we
don't actually have our indexers do any kind of desktopping. Our indexers
index. Our copyeditors copyedit. Our writers write. Etc. And, of course,
our typesetters and desktoppers prepare the pages. So formatting, from a
desktopping standpoint, isn't an issue with our freelancers. We ask them
not to be fancy... don't bother with kerning and font changes and compose
codes and the like--we're just gonna get rid of all that anyway. (Give me
mss. in good old fashioned Courier type!) And, of course, more and more, we
are having writers and indexers submit their work in SGML (that's the
trend... I imagine most publishers are going that way or are looking at
it). Certainly for stuff like different header levels, it's imperative.

But, really, a Cindex-to-WordPerfect file, for instance, is still just
fine. A few global search-and-replaces, and two indents become <in><in>,
italics becomes <i>text</i>, en dash becomes <en>, etc. In fact, in a lot
of ways, speaking as an editor who reviews mss. or indexes when they come
in, it's often preferable to receive materials with the WP codes still
intact (preferably along *with* the SGML coding). Why? Because it's still
easier to read that way. Bold text looks bold with the WP bold code turned
on; it doesn't look bold (yet) with just the SGML code for bold. Then, when
the edit is completed, and I don't need the visuals anymore, I just zap the
WP codes (search for x, replace with nothing). (I'm sure this will all
gradually change as applications--both software and in-house
systems--continue to get more sophisticated.)

But I digress.... I suppose the formatting problems that some of you are
facing are when you are actually turning in copy that is ready to be turned
over to the printer. We just don't do it that way.

Larry Baker
Larry.Baker@gale.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 06:31:44 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Pam Rider <prider@ELECTRICITI.COM>
Subject:      Re: e-mail delivery of indexes
In-Reply-To:  <199806300420.VAA09624@powergrid.electriciti.com>

I now send indexes printed to file from Cindex in .xtg (Xpress; or Quark
Xpress). A hard copy is Word is faxed (or emailed rtf). It's crucial that
typesetters/service bureaus import the .xtg file directly into Quark (going
through file translation does not work).

I email anything formatted in both Mime and BinHex, letting the receiver
choose which reads best on their system.
Pam Rider
Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth

prider@electriciti.com
prider@tsktsk.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:56:17 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Richard Hill <rhill@ASIS.ORG>
Subject:      ASIS Mid Year '99 Call: Evaluat. & Using Net Information

[Cross-posted.  Please excuse duplication]

Call for Participation
EVALUATING AND USING NETWORKED INFORMATION
RESOURCES AND SERVICES
ASIS 1999 Mid-Year Conference
May 24 -26, 1999, Pasadena, California

[Please see the complete Call for Participation at
<http://www.asis.org/Conferences/my99call.html>
or contact asis@asis.org.]

Program Chairs: Charles McClure, Syracuse University.
                                 cmcclure@mailbox.syr.edu
                                John Carlo Bertot, State University of New York.
                                                   at Albany.
jcbertot@cnsunix.albany.edu

        Access to and use of networked information resources and
services over the Internet continues to explode with new and innovative
applications as well as in new and unforeseen applications.  The
development and provision of these innovative services is hindered by our
limited knowledge of users and uses of networks, as well as by the lack of
ongoing evaluation and assessment of networked resources.  To a large
degree, there is limited knowledge about users and uses of the network,
nor is there much ongoing evaluation and assessment of networked
information services and resources.  Thus, the primary goals of the
conference are to:
                * Identify what we know and don't know about use and
evaluation of networked resources and services.
                * Propose strategies to improve our knowledge about use and
evaluation of networked resources and services.
                * Provide a forum for attendees to share their knowledge, offer
viewpoints, and debate different opinions regarding the use and evaluation
of networked resources and services.

        Together, the increased use and provision of networks and
networked information services, creates the need for understanding the
dimensions of electronic networks and the information services provided
over such networks.  This conference concentrates on exploring the
various aspects of electronic network and networked information services
to begin to develop the means through which to measure, assess, and
classify electronic networking activities.
        We invite papers on a variety of topics broadly related to
Evaluating and Using Networked Information Resources and Services,
including (but not limited to) the following general topics:
        * Use                   * Evaluation
        * Measurement   * Theory
        * Technology            * Social Implications and Impacts
        * Education             * Policy

        We encourage submissions across the commercial, public, academic, and
governmental sectors.  Further, we encourage submissions
from National, organizational, and individual perspectives.  While the
program committee encourages submissions of empirical studies, we also
encourage "opinion pieces," policy analyses, "best practice" reports, and
conceptual papers.  Persons considering submissions in areas related to,
but not specifically mentioned in, the above topics should discuss them
with the conference Chairpersons for additional guidance.
        To offer the most current information to conference attendees,
initial submissions will first be comprised of abstracts of no more than
250 words and are due November 1, 1998.
        Practitioners are especially encouraged to submit abstracts and
proposals for papers and sessions related to "best practices," case studies,
and current activities related to use and evaluation of networked
information services and resources.  All conference attendees are asked to
bring examples of user/use studies, and evaluation efforts that have been
conducted in your organization. Other "handouts" that describe efforts to
conduct use and user studies and evaluation efforts, data collection
techniques and instruments, and other related items are also important
information for attendees. Display tables will be made available for
conference attendees to provide copies of such information.

TYPES OF SUBMISSION:
        Contributed papers, technical session panels, and other
presentations can be developed by individuals , by ASIS Special Interest
Group (SIG), by collaboration among two or more SIGs, and/or other
organizations and individuals within or outside the ASIS community. To
submit a proposal, send the title and a 250 word description, and the other
required information (see forms at
http://www.asis.org/Conferences/sig-form.html#panels or
http://www.asis.org/Conferences/papers.html#infoform) to my99@www.asis.org
or to the address below.
        Electronic submissions are strongly encouraged and should be
submitted to my99@www.asis.org.  If electronic submission is not
possible, two paper copies should be sent as follows:
                Richard Hill
                ASIS Mid Year  99
                8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501
                Silver Spring, MD 20910

Program Chairs:
Charles McClure, Syracuse University.  cmcclure@mailbox.syr.edu
John Carlo Bertot, University at Albany, State University of New York.
Jcbertot@cnsunix.albany.edu

Program Committee:
Michael Crandall, Boeing Company; Paul Kantor, Rutgers University;
Carol A. Hert, Indiana University; and Geoffrey Ford, University of
Bristol


Richard Hill
Executive Director
American Society for Information Science
8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite 501
Silver Spring, MD  20910
http://www.asis.org
rhill@asis.org
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:06:23 +0100
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "J.A Binns" <binns@HANGLETON.U-NET.COM>
Subject:      Re: e-mail delivery of indexes

Michael Smith said:
>
>But they're paying for the FedEx, so I guess it's no skin off my nose!
>

But they don't pay for the paper and the floppy disks do they?

Speaking as yet another British indexer, I have recently sent two indexes
via e-mail, but at my own suggestion when deadlines were tight. I sent them
as Word RTF attachments and they were received quite happily, but I still
had to send a hard copy and disk by post. It will certainly cut down on
costs of materials when everything can be sent electronically.

Margaret Binns


============================
Margaret Binns
Indexer
20 Hangleton Manor Close
Hove, Sussex, BN3 8AJ, UK
Tel: 01273 420844
binns@hangleton.u-net.com
============================
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:33:15 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Erika Millen <emillen@MCP.COM>
Subject:      Re[2]: e-mail delivery of indexes

Larry writes:

     << Regarding indexes and formatting (and what happens to it when
     emailed), we don't actually have our indexers do any kind of
     desktopping. Our indexers index. Our copyeditors copyedit. Our
     writers write. Etc. And, of course, our typesetters and
     desktoppers prepare the pages. >>

I'm jealous now. :)  Where I work, we're required to prepare the pages for our
own indexes in either QuarkXPress or PageMaker (whatever the book design calls
for).  We're also required to adjust the length of our indexes in order to meet
the book's signature.  Few things are more frustrating than having a 33-page
index when the signature breaks require you to fill either 21 or 45 pages!

Erika Millen
Indianapolis
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:11:36 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Sheryl Romeo <romeos@AIAMAIL.AIA.ORG>
Subject:      unsubscribe directions

I apologize for not keeping track of the message that explains all this, but I
would like to either unsubscribe and then subcribe at my home e-mail, or switch
my mailbox.  Can someone please explain how this is done.   Thank you.  Sheryl
Romeo
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:51:54 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Kennedy <colfaxgp@MINN.NET>
Subject:      Re: Getting credit for your index
In-Reply-To:  <199806291641.LAA10783@mail.minn.net>

Kari wrote:
>One more question...how many of you request a copy of the book as part
>of pay,

Always.

>and how often do you get it?

Usually.

Best wishes,
Carol Kennedy
colfaxgp@minn.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:29:14 -0700
Reply-To:     dmbrown@brown-inc.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "David M. Brown" <dmbrown@BROWN-INC.COM>
Organization: Brown Inc.
Subject:      Re: unsubscribe directions

Sheryl Romeo wrote:
>
> I would like to either unsubscribe and then subcribe at my home
> e-mail, or switch my mailbox.

Try this:

1. Log in to the same account as the one in which you're receiving
   Index-L messages.

2. Create a new e-mail message with only this in the message body:

      INFO REFCARD

   NOTE:  Make sure there's nothing else in the message body, and
   make sure your mail software doesn't automatically a signature.

3. Send the message to this address:

      LISTSERV@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU

4. You should receive information on all the available ListServ
   commands.

--David

 =======================
     David M. Brown
       Brown Inc.
  dmbrown@brown-inc.com
    www.brown-inc.com
 =======================
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 08:28:29 -0700
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Edith Fuller <efuller@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Online quotation dictionaries?
In-Reply-To:  <199806300141.SAA09437@smtp1.teleport.com>

The online Bartlett's at Columbia has a 1901 publication date.

Edith M. Fuller
efuller@teleport.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:58:48 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Susan Holbert <susanh@WORLD.STD.COM>
Subject:      Re: note cards versus software
In-Reply-To:  <199806290406.AA07194@world.std.com>

>I'd like to know what you all think the pros and cons of indexing using
>software versus the index card approach are.

For me, the biggest advantage of using indexing software is being able to
see the entries in page-number order. I do high-end indexing and always
proofread my page-order index against the marked proof pages. I know that
not all indexers do this, but I add many improvements to the index at this
stage.

Of course, I use wINDEX.

Regards,
Susan
Susan Holbert ---  Indexing training videos ---  781-893-0514
        "Basic Skills" & "Manuals and Online Help"
            http://www.abbington.com/holbert
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:45:13 -0400
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         John and Kara Pekar <jkpekar@CROSSLINK.NET>
Subject:      blind notes?

A publisher has just contacted me to ask me about doing something called
"blind notes."  She is not familiar with the term, but she is trying to
find out what it entails.  Does anyone recognize this, and can you explain
to me how it pertains to indexing?  Apparently there is a note on the MS
which says that the indexer must create blind notes.  How would this
compare to regular indexing in terms of time and difficulty?

Thank you,

Kara Pekar
jkpekar@crosslink.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:28:58 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Kay K. Schlembach" <schlem@HAL-PC.ORG>
Subject:      Re: global typo in page proofs

By all means yes! As I read through a book, I tag any
questions/proof-reading issues for the editor. I then E-mail or call them
with the information. We've caught some problems, and most of my editors
seem to appreciate the service.
Kay Schlembach

Celia McCoy wrote:

> Would you tell an in-house editor that a particular word is consistently
> spelled wrong throughout the page proofs?
>
> Celia
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:43:55 -0500
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         "Susan D. Hernandez" <susanhernandez@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Attrition rate for USDA course

Dan,
    According to an article about the USDA course in the recent issue of
The Indexer (pg. 185), the attrition rate for the Basic course is about
75% ("Records confirm that 567 students have completed the basic course
(since its inception) for a completion rate of 23%, and 42 students have
completed the applied course for a completion rate of 28%.")


 - Susan


***************************************
Susan Danzi Hernandez
BookEnd Indexing
susanhernandez@juno.com
bookend@sprynet.com


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:52:46 -0700
Reply-To:     ljm2001@mindspring.com
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         LJM <ljm2001@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Independent Workers' Organization (U.S.)

I juat read an article in FoxNews, "High-tech Temps Reshape
Labor's Landscape", about an organization for independent US workers
http://www.workingtoday.org/   For $10/yr you can join and be
eligible for health insurance and other benefits. Check it out.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:18:18 -0400
Reply-To:     c.mccluskey@snet.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Christine McCluskey <c.mccluskey@SNET.NET>
Subject:      Thanks

Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about e-mailing
indexes.  Obviously I have as much to learn about computers as I do
about indexing!  Can anyone recommend a book that would explain things
like rtf, ftp, and xtg and other computer topics that would be relevant?

Thanks again,

Chris
c.mccluskey@snet.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:02:32 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Carol Deason <DDeason841@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Attrition rate for USDA course

In a message dated 6/30/98 4:56:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
susanhernandez@JUNO.COM writes:

<<   According to an article about the USDA course in the recent issue of
 The Indexer (pg. 185), the attrition rate for the Basic course is about
 75% ("Records confirm that 567 students have completed the basic course
 (since its inception) for a completion rate of 23%, and 42 students have
 completed the applied course for a completion rate of 28%.")


 Can anyone tell me how long the USDA course has been in existence?  Carol
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:25:11 +1000
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         Alan Walker <alan.walker@S054.AONE.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: note cards versus software

Susan Holbert wrote:

>I do high-end indexing and always
>proofread my page-order index against the marked proof pages.

I don't know the term "high-end indexing". There was also mention recently
of "high-end users". Will someone please explain? Thanks.

Alan
--
****************************************************************

Alan Walker, Indexer
President, Australian Society of Indexers
10 Rockwall Crescent, Potts Point, NSW, Australia 2011

Tel:    +61 2 9368 0174  +61 2 9368 0176  Fax:  +61 2 9358 5593
Email:  alan.walker@s054.aone.net.au

****************************************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:50:46 EDT
Reply-To:     Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         TennWords@AOL.COM
Subject:      Tennessee Regional Group Update

Good Morning to All!

The web site of the Tennessee Regional Group of ASI has been updated.

1. The Jul/Aug issue of "TennWords" has been uploaded.
2. Information is posted about future articles and columns by Kevin Broccoli,
Larry Edmonson, and Michelle Robertson.
3. A link has been added to the online article "The Human Mind in the
Information Age" by Kevin Broccoli, of Broccoli Information Management.
4. Submission guidelines have been uploaded.
5. The presentations for the Fall Meeting for the Tennessee Regional Group
have been decided.

The address is still:

http:/members.aol.com/tennwords/home.html

We hope you will come by to visit us! As always, we keep the cyber-coffee
hot...

Dawn Spencer
indexlady@aol.com
Contact for the Tennessee Regional Group of the American Society of Indexers
tennwords@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:30:34 -0700
Reply-To:     JEANMIDD@prodigy.net
Sender:       Indexer's Discussion Group <INDEX-L@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU>
From:         JEANMIDD <JEANMIDD@PRODIGY.NET>
Organization: Prodigy Internet
Subject:      Re: Attrition rate for USDA course

Is this course so difficult that people drop out? Do those of you who
have not completed the course still feel it was worthwhile? I am now
taking the Susan Holbert course but thought I might take the USDA one as
well.

Jean Middleton
jeanmidd@prodigy.net