From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 26-NOV-1997 06:16:53.63 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9711C" Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 05:13:03 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9711C" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 10:48:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Contacting Index-L member? Sorry to post this to the list but I don't know of anyother way to do it. I was trying to send the chat log to Vicki Birchfield (WickiBirchfield@appliedvoice.com) I tried first putting her address in one of the mailing list and then when it came back tried to send it by replying to her request individually and it came back again. Just wanted to let her know I did try to send it to her and wasn't ignoring her request. Do any of you know what the problem might be? It is the screen name that is listed at the top of her E-mail. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:48:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Contacting Index-L member? At one time I, and thousands of others, were having trouble sending attachments, and sometimes MAIL, between companies: AOL --> CSERVE in my case. Incompatiblity of this nature is silly, but there it is. Just a thought. Cheers, dllt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:29:06 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: (R) >From Christine Headley I am indexing a series of journals which contain several book reviews in each edition. The job is for a small charity, and I will be setting it myself in Word. Up till now I have marked each review (R), but in my version of Word this turns out looking like a registered trademark sign! How do I turn this feature off, or must I change the mark? TIA Christine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:54:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: (R) Perhaps changing the mark to (rev) would be less misunderstood. Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:01:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: (R) I don't have Word on my system here, but my recollection is that this is an "Autocorrect" feature -- by default the (R) or (C) is converted to a registered trademark or copyright symbol. You can delete those entries from the autocorrect list. John Sullivan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:54:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: (R) Christine, In Word 97: 1. Make sure a file is open. 2. From the Tools menu select AutoCorrect 3. Click on the AutoCorrect tab 4. Remove the entry that changes (r) to a registered trademark symbol Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner President SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Manchester, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: November 17, 1997 9:36 AM Subject: (R) >>From Christine Headley > >I am indexing a series of journals which contain several book reviews in >each edition. The job is for a small charity, and I will be setting it >myself in Word. Up till now I have marked each review (R), but in my >version of Word this turns out looking like a registered trademark >sign! > >How do I turn this feature off, or must I change the mark? > >TIA >Christine > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:18:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: (R) In-Reply-To: <199711171558.KAA32683@camel5.mindspring.com> Or better yet, turn off AutoCorrect completely if you can. I suggest doing this if you are working with any kind of technical materials, as Word loves to change code or commands into something else! At 10:54 AM 11/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >Christine, > >In Word 97: > >1. Make sure a file is open. >2. From the Tools menu select AutoCorrect >3. Click on the AutoCorrect tab >4. Remove the entry that changes (r) to a registered trademark symbol > >Sincerely, > >Kamm Schreiner >President > >SKY Software >4675 York Rd #1 >Manchester, MD 21102 > >email: kamm@sky-software.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith >To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L >Date: November 17, 1997 9:36 AM >Subject: (R) > > >>>From Christine Headley >> >>I am indexing a series of journals which contain several book reviews in >>each edition. The job is for a small charity, and I will be setting it >>myself in Word. Up till now I have marked each review (R), but in my >>version of Word this turns out looking like a registered trademark >>sign! >> >>How do I turn this feature off, or must I change the mark? >> >>TIA >>Christine >> > Jan <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 00:35:00 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: (R) >From Christine Headley Thanks to all who responded. I came back two hours after posting the query and, lo and behold, it had been solved. C ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:13:17 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: MONEY magazine article In-Reply-To: <199711141034.CAA14452@pacific.net> Hi all -- I realized I wanted to make a clarification. I wrote: >Wanna know what I made per hour on that book? $12.50. It happens once in >a while... My minimum is $3.00/page, and I was working above my minimum. Just to make it clear I wasn't working for a low page rate. It was the complexity and necessities of the text that did it. I also said: >I guess I get tired of the big bucks idea about indexing -- I think it's >something you need to love. While I wouldn't mind making more money, it is the idea that it is an easy way to make an easy living that needles me. Indexing is hard work. And so is being a freelancer. Back to this morning's deadline-- Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:59:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephanie Olivo Subject: Signature line I don't know where else to ask. Would someone e-mail me privately about creating a signature that's available for any mail? Thanks Stephanie SBO12441@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 16:35:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Don't Forget AOL Chat Tonight Don't forget about the AOL Chat tonight 8:30 Central Time. If you need the link E-mail me. Susan Wilkerson Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 17:15:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: ICQ Chat Log - Indexing Canadian Style We are now logging the ICQ Chats if you want to be put on the list for ICQ just E-mail me at Bookindexr@aol.com. If you are already on the AOL Chat Log mailing list you will automatically get the ICQ and don't need to E-mail me again. If you would like to join the ICQ Chat we now have two chats going one on Sat. morning at 7:00 Central Time and another on Thursday at 8:00 p.m. Central Time. ICQ IS NOT JUST FOR AMERICAN ON LINE MEMBERS----------- ICQ is a program that allows everyone with any internet provider to come togeather in a chat room. THERE IS NO CHARGE FOR THIS PROGRAM OR IT'S SERVICE right now. It is a beta program and they are still working out bugs. But so far we haven't had any problems that we couuldn't work around. You simply need to download the program for the webb site and install it: http://www.mirabilis.com/download. You may need a webb brower such as Netscape or Internet Explorer. If you need help downloading or installing E-mail me I will be glad to help anyway I can. Susan Bookindexr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:35:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Spellcheckers for Science Hi everyone-- I just came across the following Web site. I thought some of you might find this of interest. Has anyone out there used any of these tools? If so, how do you find their performance and accuracy? (The price is $69.95 for each of these spelling dictionaries.) Look at: http://www.inso.com/consumer/sciwords/sciwords.htm which says the following: Spelling Dictionary For Biology (see below for other subject areas) SciWords=99 for Biology contains over 49,000 words used in the field of biology, including:=20 Names of thousands of different species from all five kingdoms=20 Words related to biological and biotechnical processes=20 Thousands of chemical trade names and trivial names=20 Many individuals' surnames, useful for spell checking bibliographies=20 Acronyms common in biology text, e.g., NIH, FASEB, EMBL, IH, NSF, UNO, and NFAIS Spell checking technical documents can be very slow and tedious because of the time spent looking for specialized words that are not in standard dictionaries. This problem is solved for biology=ADrelated documents by the SciWords=99 for Biology spelling dictionary, which merges with your standard word-processor spelling dictionary. Other SciWords dictionaries:=20 SciWords for Agriculture=20 SciWords for Biochemistry=20 SciWords for Biology=20 SciWords for Chemistry=20 SciWords for Environmental Science=20 SciWords for Technology=20 ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:46:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Brayton, Colin (IBK)" Subject: Re: (R) The best advice is probably to disable the AutoCorrect feature entirely, but if you do need to have it on, I believe that you can override it by performing an undo (Ctrl-z) immediately after it reformats your "(R)," thus returning to what you originally typed. Colin Brayton A Noble Icon Editorial Services Brooklyn, New York (718) 383-6262 NobleIcon@aol.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith > [SMTP:stroud@NETVIGATOR.COM] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 1997 9:29 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: (R) > > >From Christine Headley > > I am indexing a series of journals which contain several book reviews > in > each edition. The job is for a small charity, and I will be setting > it > myself in Word. Up till now I have marked each review (R), but in my > version of Word this turns out looking like a registered trademark > sign! > > How do I turn this feature off, or must I change the mark? > > TIA > Christine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:39:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: 1998 ASI Conference Publicity All -- Please help us spread the word. Thanks much! .... Lori *** 1998 American Society of Indexers (ASI) Annual Conference celebrating its 30th Anniversary with the Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada (IASC) New Frontiers in Indexing May 13-16, 1998 Cavanaugh's Inn, Seattle, Washington Building Your Business for Tomorrow Prepare yourself for the future! Learn about the latest trends and important issues affecting Indexers, Writers, Editors, and Publishers. Professional development is your key to success. Let experienced, insightful speakers from the U.S., Canada, the U.K., and Australia introduce you to hot topics that help you stay on the cutting edge. You can't afford to miss this conference! Keynote Address: Successful Freelancing John Hedtke (http://www.oz.net/~jhedtke), an award-winning author of many articles and computer books (which he indexes himself), is an entertaining speaker whose personal philosophy of late is "If I were having any more fun, I'd have to be two people." His philosophy is infectious. Be prepared to have fun! A Few Conference Highlights - Bidding and Winning: Writing Successful Proposals - Certification Issues (panel discussion) - Creating Keywords for Online Help - Database Indexing - Editing Indexes - Facing the Text: Content Analysis and Entry Selection - Hiring and Training Legal Indexers - Indexing as a Career: Development Issues - Indexing CD-ROM Documents - Indexing Images: New Contexts, New Frontiers - Indexing in Multilingual and Multicultural Environments - Indexing Online Documents - Internet Searches: Cyber Indexes and CyberReality? - Medical Indexing - Scandals, Missing Persons, & Murderers: An Indexer's Dream! Preliminary Conference Agenda Wednesday, May 13: 7:30 - 9:00 AM Registration Table open 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM Full-day and half-day pre-conference workshops (including lunch) Noon - 1:30 PM Registration table open Noon - 6:00 PM Exhibitors Hall open Sightseeing opportunities Thursday, May 14: 7:30 - 9:00 AM Registration Table open 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM Full-day and half-day pre-conference workshops (including lunch) Noon - 1:30 PM Registration Table open Noon - 2:00 PM Roundtable discussions (lunch included) Noon - 6:00 PM Exhibitor Hall open Sightseeing opportunities 6:00 - 8:00 PM Welcome Reception Friday, May 15: 7:30 - 9:00 AM Registration Table open 9:00 - 10:00 AM Welcome / Keynote Address 10:00 AM - Noon General Session Presentations Noon to 2:00 PM Roundtable discussions (lunch included) Meet the Exhibitors 2:00 to 4:00 PM Presentations 4:00 to 6:00 PM Chapter Leaders Meeting Exhibitor Hall open Sightseeing opportunities 6:30 - 9:00 PM Awards Banquet with Murder Mystery Dinner Theatre Saturday, May 16: 8:00 AM - Noon General Session Presentations Noon - 2:00 PM Roundtable discussions (lunch included) 2:30 - 5:00 PM Post-conference workshops Sightseeing opportunities Conference Registration Want a conference brochure and registration form? Call Lori Lathrop at 303-567-4447, ext. 28, or send an e-mail message to her (76620.456@compuserve.com). *** **************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Vice President/President-Elect, American Society of Indexers Lathrop Media Services - Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 ASI Web site - http://www.well.com/user/asi/ **************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:34:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: Re: Signature line In-Reply-To: <199711172014.MAA05800@darkwing.uoregon.edu> >I don't know where else to ask. >Would someone e-mail me privately about creating a signature that's available >for any mail? >Thanks >Stephanie >SBO12441@aol.com Hi Stephanie - what are you talking about? Martha ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 06:16:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martha Osgood Subject: QUERIES, four plump and juicy ones O enlightened ones: 1. How would you index these Chinese names? Do these names refer to one person or more? Hen Sen (used without 'Chin' three times - "the pharmacist Hen Sen") Hen Sen Chin (used with 'Chin' once - "the medicine collection by Hen Sen Chin") 2. If the scope of a book is "regionalism" (and specifically The West) and the historical action took place among a population described as living between (what is now) a national park in one state and a well-known valley bounded by the Rochy Mountains in a different state, do we index the names of the national park, the well-known valley, and the Rocky Mountains? 3. Are the following (all in the same chapter) the same disease, and, if so which is the preferred main heading? pneumoniosis (I think this is misspelled in the book) pneumoconiosis (I think this is correct) pneumonia (I think this is a different disease...) How about typhoid, and typhoid fever (I think they are the same) 4. If (non-famous) George van Orsdel is familiarly known as "Van," would he be indexed as 'van Orsdel, George' instead of 'Orsdel, George van'? And if there is no chance of mistaking him, do we need to note his nickname in the index? (If he were George Van Orsdel, I would index under Van.) Many, many thanks, Martha Back Words Indexing hoping I am as much help to y'all as y'all are to me ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:13:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: t Subject: Re: AOL Bookindexer's Chat Log List In-Reply-To: <199711141623.KAA04680@libby.rbls.lib.il.us> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, James Curtis wrote: > List me > > At 05:03 PM 11/13/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi I am going to create a mailing list for the AOL Bookindexer's Chat log so > >that you won't have to keep mailing me and asking me to send you the log. If > >you would like to be included on the list just reply "List Me". When I offer > >the log to the index list you don't have to reply you will get it > >automatically. > > > >Susan > >Bookindexr@aol.com > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:17:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was maryann@ITASCA.REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US From: Maryann Corbett Organization: Revisor of Statutes Subject: help with ASI indexing course directory Dear index-l folks, To update ASI's indexing course listing, I'm trying to contact all the folks who had listings in the last (1993) ASI directory of courses in indexing and abstracting. Some people seem to have evaporated; mail to them comes back to me and Alta Vista turns up no hits. So I'm putting out a call to see if anybody knows anything about them. Today I'm hunting for WASSER Communication Services, whose address was listed as 2512 Second Avenue, No. 308, Seattle, WA 98121. Phone was 206-441-0707. Their listing said that they taught a course in back-of-the-book indexing six times a year, Can anyone supply me with their new address or name, or verify that they've gone out of business? Thanks for any help you can give me. -- Maryann Corbett Language Specialist Office of the Revisor of Statutes Minnesota Legislature 612-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:49:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephanie Olivo Subject: Re: Signature line Hi, Martha, I have the understanding from this list and another one I'm on that with some programs you can create a signature line(s) which include name, e-mail address, company name, clever quotes, etc. and that it can be saved somewhere to re-use at will. Someone has just informed me that AOL doesn't do this without an additional program for $25. If that's true, I'll just retype my sig. each time. Stephanie SBO12441@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:01:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli" Subject: Index for internal library I've been asked to consider producing an index for the library of an organization. Right now they have no way of knowing which of their over 200 books to refer to for information that they need. They simply have a list of the titles that they skim through and decide based upon that. What they want is a subject catalogue type of set-up, like a public library would have. Anyone have any ideas on the best way to go about this and how to price such an endeavor? Kevin A. Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:30:22 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: help with ASI indexing course directory In-Reply-To: <199711181818.NAA12610@camel16.mindspring.com> Wasser is still at 206-441-0707, and has a website at www.wasserinc.com. I don't know if they are still doing the indexing course. Their address is 2005 Fifth avenue, Suite 201, Seattle, WA 98121 I have a friend who works there - he does not have anything to do with indexing (he does book production) but if you need to, you could try to reach him. Herb Payton, 206-269-2466 herbpa@wasserinc.com. He might at least know who you could contact next. At 12:17 PM 11/18/97 -0600, you wrote: >Dear index-l folks, > >To update ASI's indexing course listing, I'm trying to contact all the >folks who had listings in the last (1993) ASI directory of courses in >indexing and abstracting. Some people seem to have evaporated; mail to >them comes back to me and Alta Vista turns up no hits. So I'm putting >out a call to see if anybody knows anything about them. > >Today I'm hunting for WASSER Communication Services, whose address was >listed as 2512 Second Avenue, No. 308, Seattle, WA 98121. Phone was >206-441-0707. Their listing said that they taught a course in >back-of-the-book indexing six times a year, > >Can anyone supply me with their new address or name, or verify that >they've gone out of business? Thanks for any help you can give me. >-- >Maryann Corbett >Language Specialist >Office of the Revisor of Statutes >Minnesota Legislature >612-297-2952 > Jan <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:34:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Signature line At 03:49 PM 11/18/1997 -0500, Stephanie Olivo wrote: >Hi, Martha, >I have the understanding from this list and another one I'm on that with some >programs you can create a signature line(s) which include name, e-mail >address, company name, clever quotes, etc. and that it can be saved somewhere >to re-use at will. Someone has just informed me that AOL doesn't do this >without an additional program for $25. If that's true, I'll just retype my >sig. each time. Stephanie, if you use Eudora for email, click on "TOOLS" on the top taskbar and then click on "SIGNATURE" or "ALTERNATE SIGNATURE." Follow the instructions to create a regular sig line or a different one to use when you want to. The regular one will appear on every outgoing email; if you want no signature or the alternate signature, click on the "JH" script-looking box on the message taskbar. That's where you can choose either signature or no signature. If you're using AOL, I know you can do this (differently, of course) without spending any extra money. I'm sorry, but I can't recall how to create a sig line that way...I'm on AOL but don't use it very often for sending email. Do any AOL users know how you create a sig line for email? =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:50:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: help with ASI indexing course directory In a message dated 97-11-18 15:39:42 EST, you write: << Today I'm hunting for WASSER Communication Services, whose address was listed as 2512 Second Avenue, No. 308, Seattle, WA 98121. Phone was 206-441-0707. Their listing said that they taught a course in back-of-the-book indexing six times a year, >> Wasser, Inc., is still listed in the Seattle yellow pages. The address is 2005 5th Ave.; same phone number. They also have a Web listing at . Carolyn Weaver ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 03:14:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: QUERIES, four plump and juicy ones In a message dated 97-11-18 15:07:33 EST, you write: << How about typhoid, and typhoid fever (I think they are the same) >> Yes, they are the same. Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 00:58:04 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: QUERIES, four plump and juicy ones In-Reply-To: <199711181433.GAA21658@pacific.net> Martha asks: >2. If the scope of a book is "regionalism" (and specifically The West) and >the historical action took place among a population described as living >between (what is now) a national park in one state and a well-known valley >bounded by the Rochy Mountains in a different state, do we index the names >of the national park, the well-known valley, and the Rocky Mountains? In such situations I only index place names if there is information in the book about that place. The weather, the topology, the population, the color of the sunset, its role as a city in trade or commerce, etc. Someone being from a place is not generally indexable in my practice. I'm curious about others' opinions. >4. If (non-famous) George van Orsdel is familiarly known as "Van," would >he be indexed as 'van Orsdel, George' instead of 'Orsdel, George van'? And >if there is no chance of mistaking him, do we need to note his nickname in >the index? (If he were George Van Orsdel, I would index under Van.) Webster's Biographical Dictionary indicates a pattern of lowercase "van" falling behind the first name, as in "Orsdel, George van," but there are exceptions, as I recall. Perhaps not at "van," but other such appellations. Seems to me a person not famous known as "van" would be more accessible under "van Orsdel." Again, I'm curious what others think. Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:00:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: QUERIES, four plump and juicy ones >4. If (non-famous) George van Orsdel is familiarly known as "Van," woul= d >he be indexed as 'van Orsdel, George' instead of 'Orsdel, George van'? = And >if there is no chance of mistaking him, do we need to note his nickname = in >the index? (If he were George Van Orsdel, I would index under Van.) I believe the general rule is that Dutch surnames = including the particle "van" are indexed under the main element of the name, e.g. Gogh, Vincent van = (though in this case I would add a "see" reference from Van Gogh). But in the case of a person of = Dutch origin living in an English-speaking country = it is probably safe to index under Van. Christine ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com or 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 06:36:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C.C. Diepeveen" <106126.47@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: QUERIES, four plump and juicy ones Regarding point 4 of your queries, the indexing of the non-famous person= George van Orsdel, known as 'Van'. As a Dutch person I would like to add the following. I assume George van Orsdel is Dutch or of Dutch origin. Th= e way I would index his name would depend on whether the index is likely to= be consulted by people of Dutch origin or knowledgeable about the Dutch language. If this were the case, I would not index him under 'Van' as thi= s would make little sense. 'Van' merely means 'of', originating from', therefore Dutch names which include this word (or 'van der' or 'de' or 'ter' etc.) will never be indexed under 'van' (and not capitalised) but under the main identifying part of their name 'Orsdel' or 'Gogh' etc. However, if the person is commonly known as 'Van' (which is highly unlike= ly in a Dutch context) than the best and most correct way to go about it is probably to cross-reference. Hope this helps, Caroline Diepeveen 106126.47@Compuserve.com = ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:05:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Sharing Screen Names - Is it legal? The following was taken from a E-mail I sent to the AOL Bool Inders' Chat Mailing List. Can anyone tell me if this idea is legal. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:23:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal I don't imagine there's anything illegal about it; however, I'd be a bit hesitant to give my AOL password to a complete stranger. Come to think of it, I might even be hesitant to give it to someone I know! John R. Sullivan Stratus Computer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:39:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Stephanie Olivo Subject: Re: Signature line Thanks for your note, Sonsie. I have been helped with AOL by just using good old cut-and-paste and that's working fine. Stephanie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:59:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "D. Shaw" Subject: What is the best indexing system for a magazine publisher? Sarah Clarry from the copyeditors' list asked me to post this to INDEX-L. Please reply directly to her, or copy her if you post to the list. Cheers, Deborah shawd@mindspring.com ========================================= Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 08:13:24 +1100 To: "'Copyediting List'" Subject: Indexing Hi all, Is anyone on CE-L also a member of the indexers' list? A friend who works for a magazine publishing company is looking to upgrade the dinosaur of an indexing system they currently use, and is seeking information on which product would be best for her company. TIA Sarah Clarry mailto:sclary@masterpack.com.au --- In a message on 19 November, Sarah adds: > They can respond directly to me (mailto:sclary@masterpack.com.au) because we also will be looking for some dedicated indexing software in the near future, although I expect our needs will be different to those of my friend. (She works in magazine publishing and I write online help and other technical material.) < ======================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:59:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names - Is it legal? In a message dated 97-11-19 10:07:14 EST, you write: << If you have a aol account or know some that has one where you could borrow a screen name and sign on as a guest, we could use you in the chats. >> Legality aside, I would NEVER 'loan' a screen name, any more than I would loan the PIN number for my bank account or give my library card to a stranger. I'm responsible for anything done with my account - including spams, radical statements, messages totally contrary to my personal views. I have never participated in the chats (no time; evenings and weekends are when I index) but if ever so inclined you can be sure it will be me talking if logged in under one of my screen names. The only exception is for the screen names used by my family members; and if they violate my trust, the plug gets pulled on their access. Carolyn Weaver ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:13:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names - Is it legal? In a message dated 97-11-19 11:06:37 EST, you write: << I'm responsible for anything done with my account - including spams, radical statements, messages totally contrary to my personal views. >> I was talking about setting up a different screen name from your personal screen name since AOL gives you 5 but however you are right I didn't think about the above. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:27:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names - Is it legal? Maybe we should pull the plug on the AOL chat and migrate to ICQ. Anyone can get ICQ at no cost, right? Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:38:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Index for internal library 1. By all means, charge by the hour for a job like this one. 2. Do they really want a card catalog-type set up, with only a few descriptors per book, or do they want something much more detailed? Obviously the level of detail will determine the amount of time it takes you to do the job. 3. I assume these books already have indexes. Perhaps it would be possible to scan the indexes for major entries (those with many subheadings) and use those for descriptors. Then, of course, you get into the difficulties of needing to account for differing terminology for the same concept, etc., exactly when cross-references are needed. 4. Depending on the field, there may already exist a subject thesaurus to use for vocabulary control. Finding such, becoming familiar with it, and using it as you index the books will add to the time the task takes. 5. You might want to check with a cataloger at a local public or academic library for more specific guidance. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:45:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Announcements on website ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Please see the ASI website at http://www.well.com/user/asi/ for information regarding ............ * Key Words editorial positions available -- NEW CLOSING DATES -- on the Announcements page * Annual Conference schedule and info (Seattle -- May 13-16, 1998), including new info added re Seattle, photos, tourism links, etc. PLAN AHEAD! --- follow the Conferences link * ASI Logo files for chapter and SIG use -- on the Announcements page Janet Perlman American Society of Indexers Publicity Chair ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:21:43 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: help with ASI indexing course directory In-Reply-To: <199711190518.XAA02242@mixcom.mixcom.com> Hi, Maryann. Although I can't help you with the specific people you seek, I thought I'd better let you know that I am teaching beginning and intermediate indexing courses. It's through the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee's Outreach Dept. I will probably continue teaching these each semester until the enrollment dwindles. This is not a correspondence course or one that can be taken via e-mail; you have to be in the classroom in Milwaukee. If this is pertinent to your directory, feel free to add it. Please let me know if you need more info. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:59:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal At 10:23 AM 11/19/1997 EST, John R. Sullivan wrote: >I don't imagine there's anything illegal about it; however, I'd be a bit >hesitant to give my AOL password to a complete stranger. Come to think of it, >I might even be hesitant to give it to someone I know! The safest thing to do is to invite the person to your house and set up the computer for his or her use just before the chat session...you do the logging on and off. Another idea, though more complex, is to set up a secondary screen name for that person that he or she can use on his or her own computer. This doesn't involve anybody knowing your password; the person creates a new password for that account. You're right, though, that if this secondary account gets into some trouble, YOU are responsible for whatever it is and you could get your master account yanked. I know someone this happened to. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:16:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elsa F. Kramer" Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal In-Reply-To: <199711191912.OAA23177@beavis.inetdirect.net> Forgive me if I am missing the point of this. Couldn't we just mass-distribute some of those extra AOL CDs or disks with the free 10 hours time to people who want AOL screen names? I've heard from many AOL users that when you threaten to quit, they give you more free time, over and over again. Elsa Kramer Indianapolis ..................................................... "The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug." --Mark Twain ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:20:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Timothy Griffin Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names "The safest thing to do is to invite the person to your house and set up the computer for his or her use just before the chat session...you do the logging on and off. Another idea, though more complex, is to set up a secondary screen name for that person that he or she can use on his or her own computer." It has been my experience that you cannot have two screen names under the same master account active at the same time. AOL just won't let you. So, creating a new screen name for someone wouldn't get more people to attend AOL meetings. It would just be an even trade-off. One person would get on, the other would not. Bummer. I think the Internet Relay Chat idea is a good one...We'd just need to find one common IRC server to hop on to once a week...Shouldn't be too hard to find, really...I'm not really sure, though. Any ideas or suggestions? Tim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:41:05 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Suellen Kasoff Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names - Is it legal? Good idea! Suellen On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:27:23 -0500 Richard Evans writes: >Maybe we should pull the plug on the AOL chat and migrate to ICQ. >Anyone >can get ICQ at no cost, right? > >Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:32:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal In my opinion it is immoral to accept AOL's free hours, which they supply in good faith to allow you to try their service before you buy it, if you have no intent of ever buying their service. It is even worse to keep trying to get more free hours by threatening to quit. If you do this you are making AOL more expensive for those who DO pay. Not to mention making it harder for paying members to get a connection. My two cents worth. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner President SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Manchester, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- >Forgive me if I am missing the point of this. Couldn't we just >mass-distribute some of those extra AOL CDs or disks with the free 10 hours >time to people who want AOL screen names? I've heard from many AOL users >that when you threaten to quit, they give you more free time, over and over >again. > >Elsa Kramer >Indianapolis >..................................................... >"The difference between the right word >and the almost right word >is the difference between lightning >and a lightning bug." > --Mark Twain > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:42:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elsa F. Kramer" Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal In-Reply-To: <199711192042.PAA10563@beavis.inetdirect.net> >In my opinion it is immoral to accept AOL's free hours, which they supply in >good faith to allow you to try their service before you buy it, if you have >no intent of ever buying their service. It is even worse to keep trying to >get more free hours by threatening to quit. If you do this you are making >AOL more expensive for those who DO pay. Not to mention making it harder for >paying members to get a connection. > >My two cents worth. > >Sincerely, > >Kamm Schreiner >President > >SKY Software >4675 York Rd #1 >Manchester, MD 21102 > >email: kamm@sky-software.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > Don't worry, Kamm -- I wouldn't touch AOL with a 10-foot pole for ANY reason, even though I pride myself on being somewhat amoral. And, by the way, my message was intended as a joke. I guess you haven't received as many AOL disks as I have. Elsa Kramer Indianapolis ..................................................... "The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug." --Mark Twain ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:02:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names - Is it legal? In a message dated 97-11-19 13:22:03 EST, you write: << Maybe we should pull the plug on the AOL chat and migrate to ICQ. Anyone can get ICQ at no cost, right? >> Yes, that is right Dick. All you have to do is download the program from the webb site. It is a beta program so they aren't charge anything for the program or the service and they have not mentioned any plans to charge for it in the near future. It is a neat program. The little icon sets on the taskbar (if you have Window's 95) and you just click it to turn it on. If you have a message or a chat request it changes to that particular icon. If you don't have anyone sending you message or chat request you just click it to open it up and it will display the list of people you have put on your users list and show you if they are on line or not similar to the AOL buddie list. But that is all the room it takes up unless you want to chat with someone or send a message. You can leave it there and continue with anyother program and it will stay onto of you screen for easy view or if you are waiting for someon in particular to come on line you can drag just their name onto your desk top and reduce the rest of the chat list to it's originial icon. The name that you drug onto you desk top will turn green when the member comes on line so you can send a chat request. This will work in conjunction with you other internet provider. You need to have you other internet provider on in order to turn on the ICQ. The chat room it's is great. I really love it. If you are only talking to six people or less each person has his own block of the screen and you can see them typing their remarks as they type them and even see them go back and correct mistakes...:)...but what I like about it best is you can correct you own mistakes. You can change the type style and color to what ever you have on your computer even script if you like to be fancy. So if any of you want to try it out we will be having a ICQ chat tomorrow night at 8:00 Central Time. The ICQ Book Indexer Chat Entrance Page is at: http://members.aol.com/bookindexr Just go to this webb page to download the program. The ICQ # (UIN #) will be on that page both my personal ICQ # and the chat room. If you have a problem with download it....let me know I really would like to get this going for all of us and I don't mind helping you get set up. susan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:07:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal In a message dated 97-11-19 16:23:28 EST, you write: << In my opinion it is immoral to accept AOL's free hours >> I would in no way suggest doing such a thing. My only suggestion was to borrow a screen name from someone you know has an account that don't use all of their screen name and use it just for the one hour. That was I was questioning if it was legal. I know that certain software you can make copies and distribute it so I had my doubts about if you could share your account with other than your family. I have sense reading some of the response believe you really should know the person if you do this. I personally wouldn't mind doing it for someone that I knew there character. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:13:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal Please! Can we keep in mind good business ethics here! I can't believe that professionals are suggesting things like sharing screen names. Kamm is right. Scamming AOL isn't too swift a move, for lots of reasons. Janet Perlman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:46:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Shrout Subject: AOL problem: uploading attachments In-Reply-To: <199711192228.RAA09013@wdcsun1.usdoj.gov> I have been using AOL to upload indexes successfully for the past couple of years. I also have a local ISP that I use to send indexes as email attachments. Then when I recently changed to Windows 95, AOL chokes on my attachments. It registers 6 to 9%, then maybe 16%, then 30% then justs sits and will not respond -- and then says Goodbye and logs me off. It doesn't matter all that much the time of the day or night. The only attachment that I have been able to send under their Win 95 software was sent at roughly 3:00 in the morning. I was so tired that I was playing the software like a slot machine and finally got lucky. Is anyone else having similar problems? Or have any ideas? I have tried AOL help but so far have not found anyone that understands or appears to want to. Thanks. Richard Shrout, also rshrout@erols.com or richshr@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:49:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal Elsa, I guess I should have known it was a joke. It is difficult to tell the "tone" of a typed message. I think we have all received far more disks from AOL than we want. Even though I know I am far from perfect I "try" to do the "right" thing and I guess I just couldn't leave it alone. Sorry about the mis-understanding. Kamm PS - I'm very happy I made a big mistake here. > >Don't worry, Kamm -- I wouldn't touch AOL with a 10-foot pole for ANY >reason, even though I pride myself on being somewhat amoral. And, by the >way, my message was intended as a joke. I guess you haven't received as >many AOL disks as I have. > >Elsa Kramer >Indianapolis >..................................................... >"The difference between the right word >and the almost right word >is the difference between lightning >and a lightning bug." > --Mark Twain > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:07:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal Whoa - I think it is time to count to ten. I want to point out the Susan was "asking" if it was okay? She obviously wants to do the right thing. I may have started an over reaction that I feel very bad about. I suspect that the answer to Susan's question is no. Most likely AOL's fine print allows only immediate family member's to use the account legally. The only way to know for sure is to ask AOL. The bottom line, I think, is that Dick Evan's idea is the perfect solution. It is solves all of the problems. Everybody can participate with no question of legality. I apologize again for misunderstanding and over-reacting!!! Kamm -----Original Message----- From: Susan Wilkerson To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Date: November 19, 1997 5:33 PM Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal >In a message dated 97-11-19 16:23:28 EST, you write: > ><< In my opinion it is immoral to accept AOL's free hours >> > >I would in no way suggest doing such a thing. My only suggestion was to >borrow a screen name from someone you know has an account that don't use all >of their screen name and use it just for the one hour. That was I was >questioning if it was legal. I know that certain software you can make copies >and distribute it so I had my doubts about if you could share your account >with other than your family. I have sense reading some of the response >believe you really should know the person if you do this. I personally >wouldn't mind doing it for someone that I knew there character. > >Susan > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:00:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments At 05:46 PM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >Is anyone else having similar problems? Or have any ideas? I have tried >AOL help but so far have not found anyone that understands or appears to >want to. I had the same problem when I went to Win95. Don't recall what the fix was, maybe it just went away with subsequent AOL upgrades. Are you at the latest level of AOL? Have you tried asking in the Members Helping Members area? They are sometimes more helpful than the official AOL people. Sorry I'm not more help. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:17:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Index for internal library If the organization is still paper-based, buy catalog cards from the Lib of Congress or a book jobber. Use the subject headings on those cards or their electronic counterparts. It might take as long to do either of these as it might to just assign headings yourselves, of course using a controlled vocabulary, which the cards/electronic records do also. Charge hourly regardless, Diane in Kazoo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:42:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Sims Subject: Re: AOL Bookindexer's Chat Log List List Me. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:20:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Timothy Griffin Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names: Is it legal Can you feel the love? :-) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:26:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Timothy Griffin Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments Richard, I've had similar experiences with AOL, and am only able to successfully upload files very early in the morning. Having a backup ISP is a sure bet for safety, but AOL has frustrated me nearly to the point of tears. When you really need them, they are not there. AOL to me is a good place to start to familiarize yourself with the Internet and the Web, but I've lost faith in them for anything more than e-mail. Its just too risky. My backup ISP is Netcom, and I've found them to be very reliable. (www.netcom.com) Tim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:11:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: AOL problem: uploading attachments [sort of] Richard-- This is probably unrelated to your problem since Win95, as frequently happens, may be the culprit. However, seeing "AOL" and "uploading attachments" triggered some bad memories. For some time users were unable to send, say, ZIP files between commercial services; in my case it was CompuServe --> AOL. I had thought that the problem had been resolved since my last attempt, so I sent a file to a new Internet buddy and got the usual "receiver cannot accept binary file" error message. Blast. I ran the file through UUECODE.EXE and sent it as a TEXT file this time successfuly. At least it didn't bounce! Still waiting to hear from my friend. Cheers, dllt ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:14:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments I'm not a great big fan of AOL even though I have an AOL account, but sending attachments has never been a problem. I have always been able to upload the attachments on the first try. I have only one client whose ISP squiggles up the attachments, and they have an MSN account. For that client, I have kept my MSN account, and it is miserable. I have more problems with it. I try to avoid using it at all costs, and am getting ready to drop it and find an alternative backup. Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:52:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli" Subject: Internal library index. Thanks for all of the responses. However, in charging by the hour, how much per hour is generally charged for this type of work? (Just a range to get some type of idea) Kevin A. Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:24:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments Hi Richard, I had the same problem up loading graphic files and found out I needed to zip them up. Have you been zipping them? Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:36:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: Sharing Screen Names In a message dated 97-11-19 23:15:00 EST, you write: << We'd just need to find one common IRC server to hop on to once a week...Shouldn't be too hard to find, really...I'm not really sure, though. Any ideas or suggestions? >> Tim this is exactly what ICQ is. Try it...you'll like it. :).....corny huh? Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:50:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Forget it-It was a bad idea Thanks Tim for your remark...that was sweet. I am sorry for everything. Forget I even mentioned sharing screen names. It was a bad idea. Just the fact that I wondered if it was legal should tell you something is wrong with it. I should have realized that if people weren't willing to download the ICQ so they could get into the chat they wouldn't be willing to borrow someone's screen name anyway. I don't think there is enough interested people to keep the AOL going and I feel I am wasting my time trying. If we are going to have a chat it should be available for everyone and ICQ is the only way that I know of. So I have decided to discontinue the AOL Chat. Of course if those that were coming to chat wants to continue to do so that's up to them and I may even bounce in occasionally just to see if they are still meeting but I will no longer worry about logging it and sending it to everyone. I don't feel it is valuable enough to those people I send it to to. Actually the part I enjoy most is the mixing and miggling and making friends and that's the parts I edit out...:) I will still continue the ICQ chats Thursday night at 8:00 Central Time and Saturday mornings 7:00 Central time and continue to log them. I feel it has good possibilities. I think eventually people will realize that also and download it.....plus I know it is legit. I am sorry if all this upset anyone. I know even when I am not involve things like this is disturbing and messes up my day. So have a good day and come to ICQ tonight :) Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:22:34 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: AOL problem: just say no! In-Reply-To: <199711192249.RAA13847@camel9.mindspring.com> It's probably not Windows 95 that is causing the problem - I've been running AOL under win95 and sending indexes and files for a long time. What it is is a gradual disintegration of email service with AOL. I started having the same problems two months ago - could not upload index files, or they would start uploading and then fail. But I also could not get to my email 25% of the time. I asked them what was going on, and they said that one of their email servers was causing problems, and the best thing to do was to establish a new user name, and use that for email. When I had files sent to me, I would have clients send them to both compuserve and aol. The AOL ones sometimes took 18 hours to arrive, while the compuserve messages arrived within an hour. Something is seriously wrong here. The breaking point came one day when I tried to send an index that was due that day and could not get AOL to upload it. And then compuserve went wonky as well (maybe because AOL bought it - who knows?) After hours of trying on both mac and pc, trying new user names, trying everything, I finally got the index through. But I decided I don't need this. So I followed AOL's advice and established a new user name, off of AOL on another ISP service. Why go through all this when your new user name on AOL could wind up being on the same problematic server? If I have to switch email names, I at least should go to one where I get good service. It is also so hard to get any tech support for AOL - they insist you go sit in one of their chat rooms with 300 other people and wait. That's if you can get online. I would suggest you get a second isp account, start using it and seeing if it works any better for you, and then let AOL go. My husband has stayed with AOL for the time being, since we have not yet closed the account. He spent most of yesterday just trying to get to his email. "The Host is Unavailable." At 05:46 PM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >I have been using AOL to upload indexes successfully for the past couple >of years. I also have a local ISP that I use to send indexes as email >attachments. > >Then when I recently changed to Windows 95, AOL chokes on my attachments. >It registers 6 to 9%, then maybe 16%, then 30% then justs sits and will >not respond -- and then says Goodbye and logs me off. It doesn't matter >all that much the time of the day or night. The only attachment that I >have been able to send under their Win 95 software was sent at roughly >3:00 in the morning. I was so tired that I was playing the software like >a slot machine and finally got lucky. > >Is anyone else having similar problems? Or have any ideas? I have tried >AOL help but so far have not found anyone that understands or appears to >want to. > >Thanks. > >Richard Shrout, also rshrout@erols.com or richshr@aol.com > Jan <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw <>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<>==<> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:56:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elsa F. Kramer" Subject: Re: AOL problem: just say no! In-Reply-To: <199711201525.KAA04078@beavis.inetdirect.net> >My husband has stayed with AOL for the time being, since we have not yet >closed the account. He spent most of yesterday just trying to get to his >email. "The Host is Unavailable." > > AOL's 10 million subscribers could not access their e-mail accounts from 9 a.m. until 1:40 p.m., due to hardware problems. (USA Today, 1B, Boston Globe, C2, Nov. 19, 1997) Elsa Kramer Indianapolis ..................................................... "The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug." --Mark Twain ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:08:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments The main reasons I stick with AOL for personal/business use vs. another ISP: 1. It's available toll-free from just about any major city (and a lot of the smaller ones). 2. It allows multiple screen names, which keep my family members out of my email and allows me to easily track the tax-deductible portion of my monthly bill. 3. (Most important!) It does NOT conflict with my university network account, which I cannot use for personal email. I know that it's theoretically possible to have more than one ISP under Windows networking; but I am not willing to take a chance on messing up a primary network setup that works. Hackers may be willing to chance it; I'm not. Carolyn Weaver In a message dated 97-11-20 00:23:51 EST, you write: << AOL to me is a good place to start to familiarize yourself with the Internet and the Web, but I've lost faith in them for anything more than e-mail. Its just too risky. My backup ISP is Netcom, and I've found them to be very reliable. (www.netcom.com) >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:42:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Shrout Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments In-Reply-To: <199711192358.SAA14310@wdcsun1.usdoj.gov> Dick, I uploaded the latest version from AOL. That was the one suggestion that their help desk came up with. I will try the users as you suggested. I had not done that. Thanks. I did try again last night. Same results. Massive choking. Richard Shrout On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Richard Evans wrote: > At 05:46 PM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Is anyone else having similar problems? Or have any ideas? I have tried > >AOL help but so far have not found anyone that understands or appears to > >want to. > > I had the same problem when I went to Win95. Don't recall what the fix > was, maybe it just went away with subsequent AOL upgrades. Are you at the > latest level of AOL? Have you tried asking in the Members Helping Members > area? They are sometimes more helpful than the official AOL people. > > Sorry I'm not more help. > > Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:58:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EMickiT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments I use both Win 3.1 and Win 95 and have never had a problem sending an attached file to another AOL user, but usually have a problem sending one through other ISPs. I sometimes solve the problem of sending files through other internet providers by sending or receiving files MIME encoded. You can download free MIME encoding software from AOL. As a last resort, I ask the editor if a colleague has AOL. On second thought, when I say "never had a problem" I mean the file arrives uncorrupted when sent AOL to AOL. I did once have to wait until 4 AM to send one. I did schedule a flash session to send it every hour, but couldn't sleep until I knew it had been sent. Carolyn's message implys that there may be a problem using more than one internet provider in "Windows Networking." Does this indicate a problem using two or more providers with Windows 95 on a stand-alone machine? Erin (Micki) Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:21:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments At 01:58 AM 11/21/1997 -0500, EMickiT@AOL.COM wrote: >Carolyn's message implys that there may be a problem using more than one >internet provider in "Windows Networking." Does this indicate a problem >using two or more providers with Windows 95 on a stand-alone machine? Erin, I have two different ISPs (one is AOL and one is a local provider), and I use Windows 95 on a standalone machine. I've never had any problem whatsoever switching back and forth between them...and also using a separate Juno account (which does NOT go through the internet). They all share one modem, with separate setup files, and all I do is click on whichever I want to use at the moment. I'm not sure how networking would affect this, but from here, it seems a standalone machine can have several modem connect files and work just fine. I've also sent indexes and other files through all three setups...though I don't use AOL much at all anymore. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 00:34:48 -0800 Reply-To: ljm2001@ibm.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LJM Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments Carolyn Weaver wrote: > > The main reasons I stick with AOL for personal/business use vs. another ISP: > > 1. It's available toll-free from just about any major city (and a lot of the > smaller ones). > 2. It allows multiple screen names, which keep my family members out of my > email and allows me to easily track the tax-deductible portion of my monthly > bill. > 3. (Most important!) It does NOT conflict with my university network account, > which I cannot use for personal email. I know that it's theoretically > possible to have more than one ISP under Windows networking; but I am not > willing to take a chance on messing up a primary network setup that works. > Hackers may be willing to chance it; I'm not. > > Carolyn Weaver Carolyn, I use ibm.net and they offer all the services you mention, I believe, plus they are more reliable (www.ibm.net). They have the usual 30-day free trial. A HomePC online magazine poll recently rated them #1. Laura ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 06:28:01 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments If you're concerned about running more than one ISP on your machine, I would like to recommend Netscape Communicator. The main reason I use it is to manage two ISP accounts. It has a user profile feature that allows you to keep the mail and bookmarks for each account separate. You do have to start your ISP first, then open the profiles and choose one. I find that it works very smoothly. I actually have three profiles, two for ISPs and one for Encyclopedia Britannica, which uses Netscape to search its own database. This way I don't have to have multiple browsers taking up disk space. I will say that both of my ISPs are commercial ones, so I don't know if there are any glitches with university accounts. As for the general ISP issue, I had AOL twice, and quit right before the big glut of customers caused them so many problems. I hated the advertisements everytime I logged on, and the email delays. I found AT&T to be very reliable, but I switched to a relative newcomer called FlashNet because they offered basic services at a very low price. I did find that their reliability wasn't as good; they're growing so fast that here in Houston they have regular connect problems on Friday nights, but overall they've been cool. And they don't complain if I use my free web space for advertising my indexing business. The other ISP I have is a local one called Neosoft. It is free for me because they donated the service for my church, and I maintain the church's web page. They are expensive, but comprehensive and reliable. Oh, warning about Micrsoft's newest Internet Explorer: My colleague tried to upgrade the other day and trashed her entire Win95. After reloading it, Win95 no longer recognizes her modem. She hasn't figured out how to fix that yet. I think I'll stay with Netscape. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:15:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: mixed strategy in subs In the following entry (for a scholarly book on democracy), would you list the amendments this way or try somehow to group them together and place them in ascending order (Tenth Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment, Fifteenth Amendment, Nineteenth Amendment--plus whatever others I haven't gotten to yet)? Constitution, American: adaptability/endurance of, 60; Article V, 24; citizenship treated in, 62-63, 76nn4-6; Fifteenth Amendment, 63; founded on rights, 61; Fourteenth Amendment, 63; Nineteenth Amendment, 63, 76n6; republican language of, 42; Tenth Amendment, 45-46, 58n12. See also "We the People" Given that the Press wants a run-in style, I'm not sure how I _could_ group the amendments. But am I being overly fussy in even trying to? My deadline is looming--all responses will be gratefully considered, and discarded (just kidding about that last part). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments In a message dated 97-11-21 09:40:23 EST, you write: << And they don't complain if I use my free web space for advertising my indexing business. >> Why would they complain. I thought that was what the web space was for? Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:44:03 -0500 Reply-To: maria@usaor.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maria Subject: New person looking for advice Hello, all. I've just recently found info on indexing on the internet, and find it very intriguing. I'd really appreciate it if people would let me know how they got started and what the income potential is in this field. Also, I'm thinking about taking the USDA course; if anyone's taken it, do you think it is worthwhile? Thanks, Maria Lauro ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments Richard, If there is a way of changing the speed at which your AOL program communicates with your modem make sure you don't exceed 56k. NOTE: This is completely different from the speed at which your modem communicates with AOL. If the number is higher than 56k it means that your computer will have to handle small spurts of data VERY fast. If you slow it down your computer can "rest" between interrupts. You could potentially be sending data to your modem faster than it can handle it or the modem may be sending data to the computer faster than it can handle it. Since I don't have AOL I can't tell you how to check this out or if it is even configurable. For your Erol's account it is one of the options in the Properties for your "Dial-Up Networking" Icon for Erol's. Click on Properties and then click on Configure. Hope this helps. Kamm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:59:16 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Anderman Guenther Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments Susan Wilkerson wrote: > In a message dated 97-11-21 09:40:23 EST, you write: > > << And they don't complain if I use my free web space for advertising > my > indexing > business. >> > > Why would they complain. I thought that was what the web space was > for? > > Susan Some ISPs distinguish between "personal" and business web pages. Mine allows me to maintain my site (which is an index of Web info) but locked me out when they found my resume online. I think the real problem was that other personal information (on church Bible school programs) was generating enough activity that it brought attention to my site. I think they assumed that my increased activity was from business activity. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com http://www.chesco.com/~nanguent ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:16:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sanindex@AOL.COM Subject: Great Lakes meeting announcement Reminder of the Great Lakes indexer roundtable scheduled for Saturday at 1:00 at the Wyndham Garden O'Hare hotel, 5615 N. Cumberland Ave. We will be discussing work practices, including markup versus direct entry, tracking, invoicing, marketing, collecting, etc. The cost is $10, payable at the door, plus whatever who would like to order from the menu. The roundtable witll start at 1:00 and last until 3:00 or later if the discussion continues. Although no advance registration is required, we would like to have a number count so that we will have enough table space. Please leave a message for Sandi Schroeder at sanindex@aol.com or 847-303-0989. You do not have to be a ASI member to attend. Sandi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:11:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: mixed strategy in subs Carol, Run-in style does pose some limitations, but unless you can do sub-subheads, indented style isn't that much better for this type of problem. How about something like the following, if there is not that much detailed discussion about each amendment: Constitution, American: adaptability/endurance of, 60; amendments to (see Amendments, constitutional); citizenship treated in, 62-63, 76nn4-6; founded on rights, 61; republican language of, 42; See also Article V; "We the People" (If there are more articles discussed in the text, you might want to follow the same format as for the amendments, with a cross ref in the body of the entry.) Then have Amendments, constitutional Tenth, 45-46, 58n12 Fourteenth, 63 Fifteenth, 63 Nineteenth, 63 etc. I would place each amendment/article as a separate main heading, too. But...if there is a lot of detailed discussion about each amendment/article, I would scratch the first example above and have something like Constitution, American: adaptability/endurance of, 60; amendments to (see specific amendments); articles of (see specific articles); citizenship treated in, 62-63, 76nn4-6; founded on rights, 61; republican language of, 42; See also "We the People" and entry "Amendments, constitutional" also changes and becomes Amendments, constitutional. See specific amendments At 05:15 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >In the following entry (for a scholarly book on democracy), would you list >the amendments this way or try somehow to group them together and place >them in ascending order (Tenth Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment, Fifteenth >Amendment, Nineteenth Amendment--plus whatever others I haven't gotten to >yet)? > > >Constitution, American: adaptability/endurance of, 60; Article V, 24; > citizenship treated in, 62-63, 76nn4-6; ; Fifteenth Amendment, 63; founded > on rights, 61; Fourteenth Amendment, 63; Nineteenth Amendment, 63, 76n6; > republican language of, 42; Tenth Amendment, 45-46, 58n12. See also "We > the People" > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:29:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: mixed strategy in subs Hmm I hate to even comment because I am so new to indexing but since I would like to know if I am thinking right about this I would like to reply. I think I would make another main entry as: Constitution, American, Amendments: tenth, 45-46; fourteenth, 63; fifteenth, 63; Nineteenth, 63, 76n6; etc. Am I right?...courious Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:22:52 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joanne E. Clendenen" Organization: AfterWords Indexing Services Subject: Re: AOL problem: uploading attachments Susan Wilkerson wrote: > > In a message dated 97-11-21 09:40:23 EST, you write: > > << And they don't complain if I use my free web space for advertising my > indexing > business. >> > > Why would they complain. I thought that was what the web space was for? > > Susan Yeah, lots of them complain. AT&T is very picky. You see, they don't want you to make money off your site, unless maybe they can get a cut. I think the restrictions are mostly to keep people from setting up sites with advertising on them, but several of the ones I looked at had pretty strict policies about the free sites being totally personal. I wouldn't mind paying a fee, myself, in proportion to the size of my business. Unfortunately, if you want an acknowledged business site, you may have to pay as if you had a big business (like $70/mo.). Tripod.com has an interesting deal; they are not an ISP, but they do offer web space. They put one of their advertising banners on your page, and if you want it removed, you pay a small fee. Fair, I think. Joanne -- AfterWords Indexing Services Joanne E. Clendenen email: jbclend@bigfoot.com http://www.flash.net/~jbclend ---------------- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not any simpler." Einstein ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 12:46:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: AOL Chat hi Yael, We have had several people want us to keep AOL Chats going. There really doesn't seem to be enough interest AOL indexers to keep fresh topics coming. I hate to keep sending everyone rehashes. I guess I feel a little like I am wasting your time. And I believe having two different kinds of chats hinders the other. If you are attending AOL you don't have the time to attend the ICQ. I believe we will keep the AOL chats going as long as people show up if nothing else just for friendly chats and I will keep on logging them. But if there is nothing of value I won't send out the logs. I will still be promoting the ICQ and logging it twice a week. So you can exspect to receive those logs. I would like to have your comments about ICQ why you haven't download it if you haven't or why you aren't interested or can't join in the ICQ chats. That will at least give us an idea of what we need to do to improve it or make it more available. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:08:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for Hello, list - Here's a situation I run into quite often, and would love some feedback on. In computer books, there are often sections of information (ranging from a paragraph or note to several pages) that are repeated at least twice throughout the book. For example, an important tool tip ("There is no shortcut for returning to the Pick tool from the Text tool. You must use ESC and move the cursor.") or a discussion of configuring the Windows 95 dialer, with all the menus and dialog boxes and choices explained. As an indexer, I would like to index just one occurrence of the repeated info... but which one? The first one? The last one? Or should I put them all in as long as there are only two or three locators? If they are vaguely different, maybe one little added fact, should I make a primary entry and then sub entries for each occurrence, e.g.: Windows 95 dialer, configuring with auto redial for multiple ISPs How do you choose? As a reader, I absolutely hate it when an index lists two or three locators for a topic, and they all point to the same info, just in different places. I really hate that. On the other hand, if I have a specific place in the book that I am trying to find... "I *know* they talked about the Text tool shortcut on the same page as that fabulous other thing I can't remember the name of... I'll just find the Text tool info, and the thing I *really* want will be right there too!" "ok, page 62... let's see..." "Hey! This isn't the same section... what the...?" "Stupid index!" You get the idea. Suggestions? Experience? Advice? Thanks, Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:03:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: mixed strategy in subs Carol, One thing you could try is grouping the subheadings under "amendments" and use an em-dash to begin subsequent subheadings. Plus, you know my rule "There are no rules, only contexts." I think it is perfectly logical to list in numerical order thus like this: Constitution, American: adaptability/endurance of, 60; amendments, tenth, 63, 76n6; ---, fourteenth, 63; ---, fifteenth, 63; ---, nineteenth, 63, 76n6; etc. You can find this method described in the Chicago Manual of Style, 14th ed., section 17.55. Fred Leise Between the Lines Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:05:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Shrout Subject: Re: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for In-Reply-To: <199711211833.NAA15413@wdcsun1.usdoj.gov> Ann, If it is twice and the same exact thing, I think I would put them both in. However, 3 or more, especially more, I would just put in the first one. It's a judgment call, especially (going back to just 2) if the second one doesn't get the reader near any other useful info - then I would be disposed to just put in the first one there also. I haven't seen this happen very often, but when I do, the same thing is there multiple times and, then, I usually just put in the first one. Then, after making a decision on a particular book, I would then try to be consistent throughout the book. Richard Shrout, also at rshrout@erols.com On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Ann Norcross wrote: > Hello, list - > > Here's a situation I run into quite often, and would love some > feedback on. > > In computer books, there are often sections of information (ranging > from a paragraph or note to several pages) that are repeated at least > twice throughout the book. For example, an important tool tip ("There > is no shortcut for returning to the Pick tool from the Text tool. You > must use ESC and move the cursor.") or a discussion of configuring the > Windows 95 dialer, with all the menus and dialog boxes and choices > explained. > > As an indexer, I would like to index just one occurrence of the > repeated info... but which one? The first one? The last one? Or > should I put them all in as long as there are only two or three > locators? > > If they are vaguely different, maybe one little added fact, should I > make a primary entry and then sub entries for each occurrence, e.g.: > > Windows 95 dialer, configuring > with auto redial > for multiple ISPs > > How do you choose? > > As a reader, I absolutely hate it when an index lists two or three > locators for a topic, and they all point to the same info, just in > different places. I really hate that. > > On the other hand, if I have a specific place in the book that I am > trying to find... > > "I *know* they talked about the Text tool shortcut on the same page as > that fabulous other thing I can't remember the name of... I'll just > find the Text tool info, and the thing I *really* want will be right > there too!" > > "ok, page 62... let's see..." > > "Hey! This isn't the same section... what the...?" > > "Stupid index!" > > You get the idea. > > Suggestions? Experience? Advice? > > Thanks, > Ann Norcross > Crossover Information Services > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:19:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for In-Reply-To: <199711212006.AA25603@world.std.com> I just indexed the second edition of a large, two-part book. I had to redo the index completely. Each part was written by a different author with different approaches on the same (technical) topic. What I noticed near the end was that almost EVERY index entry had two page references, one in the first part and one in the second part. I really had to index both references but sometimes the information was identical. I know this doesn't answer your question. I just thought it was an interesting experience. Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:43:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elsa F. Kramer" Subject: dictionary definition >Windows95: n. 32 bit extensions and a graphical >shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded >for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't >stand 1 bit of competition. > Elsa Kramer Indianapolis ..................................................... "How narrow is the vision that exalts the busyness of the ant above the singing of the grasshopper." -- Kahlil Gibran ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:39:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Cohen Subject: Re: mixed strategy in subs Carol, I would probably list the amendments separately and cross-reference from "Constitution" and "Bill of Rights" to the appropriate amendment entries. I would reserve the subheadings for descriptive entries such as "due process clause" and that sort of thing. Esp. if there is quite a bit of discussion of the amendments themselves. Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:43:41 -0600 Reply-To: bookend@theonramp.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Danzi Hernandez Subject: Re: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for Ann wrote: > As a reader, I absolutely hate it when an index lists two or three > locators for a topic, and they all point to the same info, just in > different places. I really hate that. > > On the other hand, if I have a specific place in the book that I am > trying to find... > > "I *know* they talked about the Text tool shortcut on the same page as > that fabulous other thing I can't remember the name of... I'll just > find the Text tool info, and the thing I *really* want will be right > there too!" I think multiple reference locators to the same information serves a useful purpose - in your computer book example, the reader might benefit from knowing that two or three different situations can be helped with the same tip. (The text tool shortcut can be used with several fabulous other things.) It's an interesting question, more so when there are alot of multiple references. I am indexing an operations manual that repeats the same safety caution for every situation it applies to. If I only list the first occurrence, the operator may be led to think the caution is limited in its scope. I plan on keeping all the locators and double posting all the sections that have the caution note under a Caution main heading. Susan D. Hernandez BookEnd Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:33:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Wilkerson Subject: Re: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for Here again my two cents: If every occurrence were exactly the same but I still felt the need to list every locator I would find some way to let the reader know that every locator is a repeat, such as tool tip, 3, repeat (10, 20, 30) I know I wouldn't want to go to each page expecting new info only to find the same thing. If each has benefitial information I would list as you suggested: Windows 95 dialer, configuring with auto redial for multiple ISPs Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:16:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for The question and/or situation, of multiple reference locators to the same information and whether to list them all in the index or not also comes up in contexts other than computer books. This situation often occurs in contributed volumes. In the physical sciences, which is my specialty field, the same background information is often referenced and discussed. As Susan Hernandez pointed out for computer books, it is of value to pick up each of those references for the index because it shows the application and bearing of the given information in various areas or on various aspects of a given field. I too pick these multiple entries up, and distinguish between them by using a subhead whenever possible. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing << I think multiple reference locators to the same information serves a useful purpose - in your computer book example, the reader might benefit from knowing that two or three different situations can be helped with the same tip. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:16:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for Susan Hernandez wrote: > I think multiple reference locators to the same information serves a > useful purpose - in your computer book example, the reader might benefit from > knowing that two or three different situations can be helped with the same > tip. This makes a lot of sense to me, and I hadn't really thought about it this way before. Thanks. And then Janet Perlman wrote: > The question and/or situation, of multiple reference locators to the same > information and whether to list them all in the index or not also comes up in > contexts other than computer books. > > This situation often occurs in contributed volumes. In the physical > sciences, which is my specialty field, the same background information is > often referenced and discussed. As Susan Hernandez pointed out for computer > books, it is of value to pick up each of those references for the index > because it shows the application and bearing of the given information in > various areas or on various aspects of a given field. > > I too pick these multiple entries up, and distinguish between them by using a > subhead whenever possible. So, 1) list 'em all, and 2) distinguish with sub-heads as much as possible. Thanks, all. Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:33:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Automatic indexing [reference] Hello, all. This is sort of peripheral to the subject above, but I thought a few of you might be interested. This book reference triggered my memory about an article I read on language analysis and automation. It was in the Hewlett-Packard Journal a year or two past. I may have the issue still but the chances of finding it again are slim, considering my filing habits. Even though it was a highly technical article I found it fascinating. Good news! I could not find my issue, but a search on the H-P website located the article (out of several hundred using "language" as a keyword). The author is Diana C. Roberts, and the title is _Integrating an Electronic Dictionary into a Natural Language Processing System_. It is in the June 1992 issue. For those of you who might be interested and can afford a printed copy, the Journal may be ordered from the following URL number: http://hpcc920.external.hp.com:80/cgi-bin/customweb/hpj/indexApp.cgi/ browse/date I do not know which division of H-P handles this sort of research; if I ever find the original article it should be listed there. Cheers, dllt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 22:06:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gerri Gray Subject: Re: mixed strategy in subs Carol: This Constitutional entry is certainly problematic, but the main entry should probably be Constitution of the United States. One visit to South America and I can never forget that we are not the only Americans in this hemishpere. Since this is a run-in index, my lesser favorite kind as a user of indexes ;-), if there are a number of entries under Constitution of the United States, perhaps you could have a separate entry for Constitutional Amendments or Amendments to the Constitution of the United States. *World Book Encyclopedia* in their great wisdom has used an indented index and Amendments is a subheading under Constitution of the United States. Bill of Rights has a separate main entry with the name of the country following the entry. (We are not the only country with a Bill of Rights or a Constitution.) To take my very small survey further I looked at *The Almanac of American History* by Schlesinger. The main entry was Constitution, no further designation, and Amendments is a subheading with 25 locators! I found another. In Garry Wills book *Under God*, there is an entry Constitution (U.S.) with no subheading for amendments since there was no need for one other than the separate main entry for Bill of Rights. In Taylor Branch's book *Parting the Waters*, there is a main entry Constitution, U.S. and subheadings for First Amendment to, Fifth Amendment to, etc. I don't know whether this is helpful, but I thought it was interesting. Gerri Gerri Gray Head Reference Librarian Loyola/Notre Dame Library Baltimore, MD Almost finished my USDA Basic Indexing Course. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:05:27 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Duplicate information, choosing index entries for In-Reply-To: <199711211835.KAA11333@pacific.net> Ann wrote: >If they are vaguely different, maybe one little added fact, should I >make a primary entry and then sub entries for each occurrence, e.g.: > >Windows 95 dialer, configuring > with auto redial > for multiple ISPs > >How do you choose? > >As a reader, I absolutely hate it when an index lists two or three >locators for a topic, and they all point to the same info, just in >different places. I really hate that. I choose the most complete, clearly elucidated, easiest to spot on page version. However, if there is an additional fact, that is additional information and is indexable. I like to present the information in its context as you've given above, where possible. As for trying to help them remember something else on the page, I think you would irritate far more users than you would help by doing so, even though I myself use indexes in that way, trying to find something too vague to articulate. If you have the space though, and can present context, then you've solved both problems. Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:16:28 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: mixed strategy in subs At 05:15 PM 11/20/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >In the following entry (for a scholarly book on democracy), would you list >the amendments this way or try somehow to group them together and place >them in ascending order (Tenth Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment, Fifteenth >Amendment, Nineteenth Amendment--plus whatever others I haven't gotten to >yet)? > > >Constitution, American: adaptability/endurance of, 60; Article V, 24; > citizenship treated in, 62-63, 76nn4-6; Fifteenth Amendment, 63; founded > on rights, 61; Fourteenth Amendment, 63; Nineteenth Amendment, 63, 76n6; > republican language of, 42; Tenth Amendment, 45-46, 58n12. See also "We > the People" > > >Given that the Press wants a run-in style, I'm not sure how I _could_ group >the amendments. But am I being overly fussy in even trying to? > Dear Carol: Cynthia and Fred said what I would have said on this issue so I have nothing to add except my appreciation for their pointing out how useful _See_ refs off subs and dashes for creating subsubs in run-on indexes can be. In a completely different vein I want to suggest that you add the word "as" to the beginning of the subheading "founded on rights". To my mind and ear "as founded on rights" makes the connection to the main heading "Constitution..." immediately clear, seamless, and satisfying! Cheers, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916 272-7088