Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:47:58 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9701C" To: Julius Ariail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:54:04 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: happy ending to e-mail story Pam Rider writes: >I am delighted with Carol's success. I have been following this thread with >great interest, as I will be [attempting] to send my first index by email. I >have commercial Eudora. I am PC I can send the index (to a Mac user) in RTF. > >Anyone on the list have experience with this situation? I've found this method to be extremely reliable when I need to share files across platforms and deliver them via e-mail. RTF seems to be very stable, and since the files are ASCII text, the kind of problems Carol encountered just don't happen, period. I've sent RTF files as attachments and even pasted right into the body of the e-mail with instructions for the recipient on what to copy and how to create a readable file. Can't say I've ever experienced even the least glitch using this method. Hope this helps. Sarah |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | Technical Writing * Developmental Editing * Indexing | | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:26:57 +1300 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: Re: "Everyone" and "their" Jennifer Rowe wrote (inter alia): >One change that I see coming along is the use of "their" to replace the >>unwieldy "his or her," as in "Everyone should proofread their work." Apologies to those of you who are also subscribers to Copyediting-l, where we have just had a lengthy thread about this, but let me mention that this idiom has been current for many years, as the following quotations show. You can find all these and more at the following URL: http://moe.cc.utexas.edu/~churchh/sgtheirl.html "Everyone" 1735 JOHNSON tr. Lobo's Voy. 99 Every one Sacrifices a Cow or more, according to their different Degrees of Wealth or Devotion. 1870 DASENT Eventful Life (ed. 4) I. 1 Every one had made up their minds that I was to be one thing, and I came out another. 1877 W. H. MALLOCK New Repub. (1878) 94 Everyone then looked about them silently in suspense and expectation. "Everybody": c 1530 LD. BERNERS Arch. Lyt. Brit. 285 Everye bodye was in theyre lodgynges. 1580 SIDNEY Arcadia II. (1613) 156 Now this king did keepe a great house, that euerie body might come and take their meat freely. 1620 Hor=E6 Subsec. 477 To take vpon him the disciplining of euery body for their errours. 1759 BP. WARBURTON Lett. (1809) 280 Everybody I meet with are full ready to go of themselves. 1820 BYRON Wks. (1840) IV. 298 Every body does and says what they please. 1866 RUSKIN Eth. Dust v. (1883) 82 Everybody seems to recover their spirits. Other singular uses of "their": c 1420 Sir Amadace (Camden) l, Iche mon in thayre degre. 14.. Arth. & Merl. 2440 (Kolbing) Many a Sarazen lost their liffe. 1545 ABP. PARKER Let. to Bp. Gardiner 8 May, Thus was it agreed among us that every president should assemble their companies. 1563 WYNGET Four Scoir Thre Quest. liv, A man or woman being lang absent fra thair party. 1641 BEST Farm. Bks. (Surtees) 126 Holes, of that bignesse that one may thrust in their neafe. 1643 TRAPP Comm. Gen. xxiv. 22 Each Countrey hath their fashions, and garnishes. 1749 FIELDING Tom Jones VII. xiv Every one in the House were in their beds. 1771 GOLDSM. Hist. Eng. III. 241 Every person... now recovered their liberty= . a 1845 SYD. SMITH Wks. (1850) 175 Every human being must do something with their existence. 1848 THACKERAY Van. Fair xli, A person can't help their birth. 1858 BAGEHOT Lit. Studies (1879) II. 206 Nobody in their senses would describe Gray's `Elegy' as [etc.]. [What, I wonder? SC] 1898 G. B. SHAW Plays II. Candida 86 It's enough to drive anyone out of their senses. =46rom Simon Cauchi, Freelance Editor and Indexer 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone and facsimile +64 7 854 9229, e-mail cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 06:50:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: "Everyone" and "their" Thanks to Simon Cauchi for his scholarly contribution. I remember that in one of E. Nesbit's wonderful books for children (it may have been 'The Treasure Seekers' or 'Five Children and It') she wrote (of a group of boys and girls): 'Everyone put on its coat.' Although briefer than 'Everyone put on his or her coat', I don't think this is a very happy solution; it doesn't seem to have caught on, anyway. I am quite happy to use 'their'. Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:11:47 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michele Johnson [CPC]" Subject: testing I have not received any messages from here in a month, and I am testing to see what the problem is. ~ Michele ~ CRITIQUE PARTNER CONNECTIONS http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/8977 ~ASK QUESTIONS...for within the answers, you shall find the guts of your entire story....~ ~Michele Johnson~ mdjcpa@usit.net http://www.angelfire.com/tn/mjohnson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:13:56 -0500 Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Re: Printing in DOS Tom Brown wrote: >So far I have not succeeded in printing from my WordPerfect 6.1 for DOS, or any of my other DOS applications. I've scanned the list of HP drivers available from WordPerfect, and that model is not listed yet. Tom, You don't need to use an 820e driver to print in DOS. You can use a driver for any earlier DeskJet. I run Windows95 and when you install the printer it asks you if you want to make the printer available for DOS applications as part of the install. I just say yes and follow the directions. The only DOS application I print from is an accouting program. I have had no problems, but sometimes there is a bit of a delay before the actual printing starts (2-3 minutes). Are you working directly from DOS? If so, try using the Wordperfect driver for an earlier Deskjet. I hope that helps. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:41:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: [Fwd: Laser vs. dot matrix] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6808769212D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you can see, I'm forwarding this response to my question on printers. Obviously, my choice of the word "dot matrix" was not inaccurate. I did mean ink jet (not dot matrix) printers. Thanks for your helpful information, Jonathan. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services macallen@tiac.net --------------6808769212D2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from dnai.com (dnai.com [140.174.162.28]) by maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18938 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:37:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from well.com (d-84.dnai.com [140.174.162.84]) by dnai.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05007 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:37:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:37:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701141637.IAA05007@dnai.com> X-Sender: jonathan@mail.dnai.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: macallen@TIAC.NET From: jonathan@mail.dnai.com (Jonathan Sachs) Subject: Laser vs. dot matrix X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 I'm responding to your INDEX-L posting by private mail because I'm having a problem with my ISP and can't post to the mailing list now. Feel free to repost for me if you want to. By "dot matrix" I assume you mean ink jet, since true (impact) dot matrix printers are no longer used except in specialized applications. Laser printers are generally faster and more reliable than ink jet printers, and are somewhat cheaper to operate. They have an edge in quality, although ink jets have closed a large part of the gap. They take a broader variety of papers, and many can be fitted with accessories, like envelope feeders, that ink jet printers do not have. On the other hand, ink jet printers are cheaper, more compact, and much lighter. They are ready to run almost instantly when turned on, while laser printers have to warm up. They are somewhat quieter and use less electricity. But laser printers designed for personal use are much better on all of these points than they used to be. Color ink jet printers are cheap and produce pretty good (not quite photographic) quality output. Color laser printers are still quite expensive. An ink jet printer can do one thing that a laser printer can't. It can print pages that can be kept in contact with vinyl (e.g., a notebook cover) without making the printing come off and stick to the vinyl. I have to keep an ink jet printer to print things like mileage log forms for that reason. I own a high-end one-color laser printer (HP LaserJet 4M Plus) and a very old high-end ink jet printer (HP DeskJet Plus). For years I used the ink jet for everyday printing and turned the laser on only when I need its quality or speed. Then I realized that the time I spent fussing with the printer's somewhat cranky paper feed and waiting for it to finish printing pages was worth more than any any time and electricity I was saving. I retired the ink jet printer and didn't miss it. Today I use the laser printer in my out-of-home office and keep the ink jet printer at home. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. --------------6808769212D2-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:32:53 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: Re: [Fwd: Laser vs. dot matrix] I don't necessarily agree with Jonathan's statement that "true (impact) dot matrix printers are no longer used except in specialized applications." Anyone needing to run multi-part forms still uses impact printers and many operations--such as the federal government--use them for a lot of applications. Our section has a laser printer but we can use it only for the final proofs and camera-copy printings of the Index (i.e., 4 times a year.) All other printing is done on impact printers. Just my $0.02 worth.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:37:56 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: More on printers 15 January 1997 Thanks to all of you who sent me information about laser and inkjet printers and how to buy them. I found *all* of the information enormously helpful. The *vast* majority of responses were from ecstatic users of Hewlett Packard LaserJet models: it didn't seem to matter whether they were old or new, they were loved for their reliability, their compatibility with their software, their "workhorse qualities," and their good print. On the basis of those recommendations and my visits to my local Best Buy, Office Depot, and Office Max , I am clearly going to buy such an item myself. However, if any of you know places where Hewlett Packard LaserJets can be bought especially cheaply by mailorder, could you let me know? You can reply privately, if you like. Thanks again for all your terrific help! I really appreciate it! --Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:34:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: po1.indiana.edu: host not found) (fwd) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --JAA19253.853338701/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --JAA19253.853338701/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/DELIVERY-STATUS Content-ID: Reporting-MTA: dns; hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:31:40 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; po1.indiana.edu Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:31:41 -0500 (EST) --JAA19253.853338701/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Return-Path: davidaus Received: (from davidaus@localhost) by hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7.6/8.7/1.3shakespeare) id JAA19244; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:31:40 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:31:40 -0500 (EST) From: David Robert Austen X-Sender: davidaus@hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu To: "Indexer's Discussion Group" Subject: Re: Printers (Laser versus Dot Matrix) In-Reply-To: <199701141130.GAA29844@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is so basic that it probably need not be said: laser printers usually do not give you anything like a tractor drive. For that reason, I like to have both types around. David ----- On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Willa MacAllen wrote: > Greetings: > > This discussion on printers is really helpful, since I will also be > looking at printers this week. > > I've assumed that a laser printer is better to have than a dot matrix, > but would appreciate any thoughts on this issue before deciding which to > purchase. > > Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts on this issue. > > Willa MacAllen > MacAllen's Information Services > macallen@tiac.net > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- --JAA19253.853338701/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:30:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Re: Storing software In-Reply-To: <199701150442.XAA09202@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> Dear Richard and all: To start, I create a subdirectory with an obvious name for each new app and use that named directory (rarely the name the manufacturer suggests) for each app. I then immediately create a file called key.txt or key.doc in each subdirectory. The text there will be my notes: the "key" to understanding what is in the subdirectory and logging my notes as I go on. Another subdirectory in the root dir of the machine called WHERE_IS gives me a numbering system for locating each app's books and original disks. I urge the use of a letter code with the number too, like SA100, MA100, LA100 for small medium and large applications' packages (packaging) that the publisher sends. All small ones go together in one box eventually and so on. "Smalls" might be those with nothing more than the CD-ROM "jewel case." I'd like to read of other ideas, too. Yours, David ----- On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Richard Evans wrote: > How do you handle all the crap associated with the software on your > computer? If you bought your machine with the operating system and a set of > applications already installed and you've added nothing but your indexing > software, this is probably not a problem for you but I add a couple of dozen > new apps per year and have a devil of a time storing the disks, CDs, > manuals, etc. > > Some apps come with real books that fit on a bookshelf. Others come with > things more like pamphlets or even fold-out cards. Odd sizes, they don't > fit on shelves. The storage medium (disks or CDs) get separated from the > documentation. When I find one I can't find the other. > > I've tried filing things in binders with special zippered pages to hold both > storage media and small docs. I've tried hanging folders in a file drawer. > I've tried zip lock food storage bags tossed willy nilly into a laundry > basket. I have any number of disk, tape, and CD-ROM storage containers. At > the moment, I am using all of the above strategies and am not happy with the > results. > > And don't get me started on how to save and organize all the registration > numbers and tech support phoine numbers involved. I usually write any > registration numbers on the diskettes, so if I have to reinstall I can find > the number. Tech support numbers I put in my Lotus Organizer, filed by > company name. Lately, there are sometimes URLs also associated with > products as manufacturers provide Web pages and online tech support. > > Anyone have a system they are happy with? > > Dick Evans > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:45:27 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Dot matrix printers In-Reply-To: <853336356.98093.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <853336356.98093.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com>, Lonergan Lynn writes > I don't necessarily agree with Jonathan's statement that "true >(impact) dot matrix printers are no longer used except in specialized >applications." Anyone needing to run multi-part forms still uses impact >printers and many operations--such as the federal government--use them for >a lot of applications. Our section has a laser printer but we can use it >only for the final proofs and camera-copy printings of the Index (i.e., 4 >times a year.) All other printing is done on impact printers. > >Just my $0.02 worth.... Well, here is my two-penniworth - why can't I keep my mouth shut - a constant question from my friends! Yes, multiple copy items still need a dot matrix, unless you are prepared to spend a lot of both time and money on printing the same text over and over again. As Treasurer, I have to send out a good many invoices from the Society of Indexers, and my system requires three copies of all such documents (I did tell you I was a bureaucrat, didn't I?). I tried doing this on my bubble jet, when it was new and I was enthusiastic about it. It took all evening, and used up far too much ink, so I reverted thankfully to my good old 24-pin machine and the NCR paper. Betty ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:01:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: happy ending to e-mail story At 02:30 PM 1/14/97 -0800, Pam Rider wrote: >I am delighted with Carol's success. I have been following this thread with >great interest, as I will be [attempting] to send my first index by email. I >have commercial Eudora. I am PC I can send the index (to a Mac user) in RTF. > >Anyone on the list have experience with this situation? Pam, Lynn (and others) walked me through this a couple of weeks ago. Here's the simple version: 1. Save the index file in the .RTF format. 2. Open Eudora and write a "cover letter" to go with the file. 3. Click on "Attach file" and then enter the full path and name of the index file you want to send with the note. 4. Be sure to click on the Eudora box (in the top row of the message box) that shows "Text-->Doc". (Actually, this notation is vertical, not horizontal, but that's the best representation I could make. 5. Queue message to be sent; then send! It should work fine. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:01:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: happy ending to e-mail story At 09:54 PM 1/14/97 -0800, Sarah Lee Bihlmayer wrote: > >I've found this method to be extremely reliable when I need to share files >across platforms and deliver them via e-mail. RTF seems to be very stable, >and since the files are ASCII text, the kind of problems Carol encountered >just don't happen, period. I've sent RTF files as attachments and even >pasted right into the body of the e-mail with instructions for the recipient >on what to copy and how to create a readable file. Can't say I've ever >experienced even the least glitch using this method. Just a note...I don't know if .RTF files are actually ASCII text (if they were, why not just send them as ASCII?) but I do know that they retain all formatting and special characters. That's why the format is such a godsend. Regular ASCII text loses virtually everything in the translation. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:01:50 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: More on printers At 08:37 AM 1/15/97 -0600, Laura M. Gottlieb wrote: >On the basis of those recommendations and my visits to my local Best >Buy, Office Depot, and Office Max , I am clearly going to buy such an item >myself. However, if any of you know places where Hewlett Packard LaserJets >can be bought especially cheaply by mailorder, could you let me know? You >can reply privately, if you like. I ordered a reconditioned Canon BJ-200 for my husband from Surplus Direct/Granny's Software, on the Web. It is a wonderful mailorder site that, if it has what you want, will also have unbelievable prices and a $6 UPS ground shipping charge for ANY product you order...from a software package to a full computer setup. They do have HP products, but the selection changes almost daily. Keep checking at: www.surplusdirect.com The HP home page (where you can download complete technical information, updated drivers, etc.) is www.hp.com Another good source of computer products, mailorder, is Insight. I've never purchased anything, so I can't tell you about the service, etc., but you might pay a visit to www.iadirect.com =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:04:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: sending indexes via e-mail (again!) In a message dated 97-01-14 17:28:28 EST, Karl wrote: > If you're using the Eudora mailer, try using UUENCODE on your message body. > Hope this helps... Karl's right and I have successfully sent word-processed files to clients using UUENCODE. What's even more helpful (as in--necessary) is for the recipient to have UUDECODE on their end for decoding the file back to its original format. ;-D So, be sure to ask them if they have it. WinCode is the Windows version of UUENCODE/DECODE and all of these programs are shareware produced by the same folks that created PKZIP/UNZIP, PKWare. (There's also a Windows version of PKZIP/UNZIP called WinZIP.) So, you can feel free to send copies to clients that don't have them. If you have both WinCode and WinZip, as I do, you can even encode and zip in one operation. (WinCode, BTW, comes in two flavors--for Win 3.1 and for Win95. The Win3.1 version is smart enough to detect the presence of Win95 on your system and will nag you to download the Win95 version each time before going on to zip and unzip your files.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:31:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Dot matrix printers In-Reply-To: <199701151540.HAA20682@mail6.netcom.com> If you do a lot of mailing labels, dot matrix are useful as the labels for them are much cheaper than laser labels. The drawback is if you use postal barcodes in your mailings as dot matrix really can't do them as well. The way around this and avoid the high cost of labels is to print the addressess directly on the flyers. Roberta Horowitz roberta@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:22:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Printers (Laser versus Dot Matrix) > >I've assumed that a laser printer is better to have than a dot matrix, >but would appreciate any thoughts on this issue before deciding which to >purchase. > Laser-printed pages look a lot better than dot matrix. You can get inkjet printers whose output (on "best quality" setting) looks pretty close to laser-printed. When I was still new to indexing and to Index-L, I raised the very same question, and people told me then to buy the highest quality I could afford. So I bought a laser printer, and I've been very happy with it. Later on, I bought a color inkjet for a song, because laser toner cartridges are very expensive, so I use the inkjet for drafts. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:38:21 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Storing software >Anyone have a system they are happy with? > >Dick Evans Dick, I buy the plastic disk-storage boxes and keep the disks there rather than trying to keep them with their documentation (I don't need the disks nearly as often as the documentation). Then I reserve a shelf on one of my bookcases for computer stuff (how-to books, manuals, and other documentation). Any loose stuff that comes with a manual I staple inside the back cover of the manual. Then I write the reg. # and the tech support # (and anything else like that) on the inside front cover of the manual. If I decide to download a manual and print it, I'll take it to Kinko's and have it bound for a coupla dollars. I haven't really had the problem you describe of things not fitting on the shelf; if something's too tall, I just shelve it on its side. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:22:52 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Laser vs. dot matrix >I don't necessarily agree with Jonathan's statement that "true >(impact) dot matrix printers are no longer used except in specialized >applications." Anyone needing to run multi-part forms still uses impact >printers and many operations--such as the federal government--use them for >a lot of applications. Our section has a laser printer but we can use it That's exactly the kind of application I had in mind. Dot matrix printers are irreplacible for this type of work, but it's really not a large part of what printers are used for. Most of the dot matrix printers still in use are probably very old personal printers that their owners have not chosen to replace. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:58:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Storing software At 11:26 PM 1/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >How do you handle all the crap associated with the software on your >computer? If you bought your machine with the operating system and a set of >applications already installed and you've added nothing but your indexing >software, this is probably not a problem for you but I add a couple of dozen >new apps per year and have a devil of a time storing the disks, CDs, >manuals, etc. > >Some apps come with real books that fit on a bookshelf. Others come with >things more like pamphlets or even fold-out cards. Odd sizes, they don't >fit on shelves. The storage medium (disks or CDs) get separated from the >documentation. When I find one I can't find the other. > >I've tried filing things in binders with special zippered pages to hold both >storage media and small docs. I've tried hanging folders in a file drawer. >I've tried zip lock food storage bags tossed willy nilly into a laundry >basket. I have any number of disk, tape, and CD-ROM storage containers. At >the moment, I am using all of the above strategies and am not happy with the >results. > >And don't get me started on how to save and organize all the registration >numbers and tech support phoine numbers involved. I usually write any >registration numbers on the diskettes, so if I have to reinstall I can find >the number. Tech support numbers I put in my Lotus Organizer, filed by >company name. Lately, there are sometimes URLs also associated with >products as manufacturers provide Web pages and online tech support. > >Anyone have a system they are happy with? > >Dick Evans Well... I'm probably pathologically organized, I admit. I put all the odd papers, registration certificates, etc., back in the box and stack the box on the top shelf of the closet in the bedroom that serves as my home office. Hardware, too -- in fact, *especially* hardware! All the installation sheets and stuff, in the box, on the shelf. I have maybe 30-40 boxes on the shelf, some of which, admittedly, ought to be tossed out. (Maybe one of these days!) I have two very handy storage boxes for 3.5" cassettes, which is what most of my software came on; I've only got 5 or 6 CDs for software. The boxes are heavy cardboard, about 15" wide and 12" deep, 3.5" high, with a sort of flip-top lid. Even with blank disks, archives of downloads, and so on, each box is only about 2/3 full -- and, as I intimated, I keep everything! I got the boxes (which stack very nicely) at a computer-type flea market and I've never seen them sold elsewhere, unfortunately, since I have several friends who covet them. I buy probably 5 or 6 new computer books a year, for new versions of old software and new apps I'm trying to learn, plus assorted manuals, and they all overflow a 3-shelf metal storage shelf in the office. I try to weed out the old books that I can no longer justify having and those go to my library (I'm a librarian), since lots of patrons don't buy the latest version of everything. (Also, if I didn't take the book off my taxes as a business expense, I can take it off now as a gift.) I figure I don't *need* more than 3 shelves of computer books... especially as I have several thousand other books piled around the house! Also (of course), I keep a steno pad near the computer, in which gets written down *everything* (dated) that I do in the way of installation, setting jumpers and dip switches, registration and hardware serial numbers, software settings (especially with communications under Win95, which makes me crazy), and random notes to myself. I learned this from a friend who manages the technical side of a half-dozen PC workstations for small businesses. "Never try to just *remember* anything," he said, and he was right. Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:09:00 GMT0 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Printers (Laser versus Dot Matrix) etc. I should like to endorse wholeheartedly the merits of HP printers (sorry if again this sounds like an advert - I have nothing whatsoever to do with the company either). We have had a Laserjet II for (I think) 10 years. It's just now beginning to feel its age. It has given us stalwart service, actually underestimates the amount of pages possible per toner cartridge, and will deal with card, half-size, and used paper as well as paper straight from the packet. I have been using an HP 4ML (Postscript-compatible) for some years now, and although I am perfectly satisfied with it, it won't deal with card or small sizes and is unhappy about using old proofs for index drafts - but it's smaller than the II and is perfectly satisfactory for normal use. We also have a colour deskjet (which is used extensively for slides for lectures) which we are also planning to use in the future for B/W printing - so I was very pleased to see some positive comments about that. Someone (very sorry, can't remember who) said: >This is definitely a consideration if you have asthma or other respiratory problems as ozone is definitely a respiratory irritant (in addition to causing headaches). I've never noticed anything - positive or negative - to connect laser printers with my asthma, and I've been on daily medication since the age of 7 (a long, long time!). Nor headaches, for that matter. Perhaps I'm just lucky. I really wouldn't have anything to do with a dot-matrix printer. I haven't investigated this in detail recently, but I would imagine that the running costs of a laser printer are less than those for a DM one - most mail order office equipment distributors have toner cartridges at very competitive prices. To move briefly to another Index-L-related issue - language change - what about its and it's? Should we assume that `its' no longer exists - I'm beginning to find it quite hard to remember which usage is which, and I'm enough of a pedant to yell `the government HAS' at the television regularly! For anyone who's got this far, can I say that I *loved* the conversations about cats and views (they gave me a real `belonging' feeling), and *hated* the interminable arguments about whether or not these were relevant to Index-L! After all, it's been ages since anyone actually anecdoted a cat! Drusilla hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:47:02 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Storing software In-Reply-To: <853386310.93638.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <853386310.93638.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> on Wed, 15 Jan 1997, "Michael K. Smith" writes >Also (of course), I keep a steno pad near the computer, in which gets >written down *everything* (dated) that I do in the way of installation, >setting jumpers and dip switches, registration and hardware serial numbers, >software settings (especially with communications under Win95, which makes >me crazy), and random notes to myself. I learned this from a friend who >manages the technical side of a half-dozen PC workstations for small >businesses. "Never try to just *remember* anything," he said, and he was >right. Yes, but do you _index_ your notepad? I've considered something like this, and also the idea of using one of the software packages for storing miscellaneous notes, but have not yet decided that the benefit would be worth the trouble. There's also the snag that a serious computer problem might well render inaccessible the information needed to fix it. How do other people deal with storing bits and pieces of information, as well as bits and pieces of paper? (I hope that this is sufficiently relevant to the topic of indexing, and that this group isn't limited to "back of book" indexes.) Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:31:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Justine Carson Subject: Re: Storing software In-Reply-To: <199701150430.UAA17283@mail6.netcom.com> For the software that doesn't come in the form of a book or whatever that will go on my shelves, I use those boxes that you can buy to store issues of magazines. (Don't know what they're called, but they're cardboard and have a spot for a label.) You can store more than one package per box and write on the label which software is in which, etc. If the documentation is in lots of little pieces, brochures, cards, etc. I put it all in a zip lock and then put the zip lock in the box with the label. Justine Carson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:28:27 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Switchboxes 16 January 1997 I feel like a pest with all my questions about printers, but now that I've taken your collective advice and have bought a wonderful Hewlett Packard LaserJet 6P printer (thanks again, all!), I have run up against another problem: how to connect it to the three computers in my home office! With my lone dot-matrix computer, I had simply used a mechanical switch box to print from one computer or the other, but the mechanical switchbox doesn't work with the laser printer. One computer store I consulted about this claims that I need an "electronic print-sharing network" and recommends the Smartprint brand--which will cost another $200! Yikes!! Is there some alternative to spending this $200, short of plugging and unplugging cables directly from each computer to the printer every time I want to print something from one of the computers? This problem confirms me in my Murphy's Law-ish views that, (1) once you buy some new piece of technology, you have to buy yet another, and (2) no matter how prepared you may feel you are to ask the right questions when buying some new piece of equipment, there will always be something else you *should* have known to ask about. I keep hoping that in my next life, I will come back with some mechanical, electronic, or technological aptitude! In the meantime, in *this* life, I'd be eternally grateful for any advice on how to connect my computers to my laser printer cheaply! Thanks in advance!--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer and Growing Technophobe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 10:37:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Storing software At 02:47 PM 1/16/97 +0000, Leonard Will wrote: >How do other people deal with storing bits and pieces of information, as >well as bits and pieces of paper? (I hope that this is sufficiently >relevant to the topic of indexing, and that this group isn't limited to >"back of book" indexes.) I started a looseleaf notebook the day I got my first computer, in 1988. The person who delivered and installed it kept tossing off what I =knew= were important little details, and I also knew I would never remember them all. I still have the first page: the command to set the computer's time and date stamp, what "CD [Change Directory]" means and how to use it, and, at the time vitally important...the usage of Ctrl-Alt-Del! It all seems pretty elementary to me now, but back then it was very mysterious. The same looseleaf notebook has dividers under which I file most of the README.TXT or HELP.TXT files I've printed out over the years for various programs. The software that I've purchased is stored, with manuals, in the original boxes in my storage area (manuals I need to use almost every day are on a small bookcase near my computer). The software I've downloaded or gotten from friends is stored in plastic lidded disk boxes, filed by type of program. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:46:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Switchboxes At 12:28 PM 1/16/97 -0600, you wrote: >16 January 1997 > >I feel like a pest with all my questions about printers, but now that I've >taken your collective advice and have bought a wonderful Hewlett Packard >LaserJet 6P printer (thanks again, all!), I have run up against another >problem: how to connect it to the three computers in my home office! With >my lone dot-matrix computer, I had simply used a mechanical switch box to >print from one computer or the other, but the mechanical switchbox doesn't >work with the laser printer. One computer store I consulted about this >claims that I need an "electronic print-sharing network" and recommends the >Smartprint brand--which will cost another $200! Since the laser printer is the only one that is likely to be fussy about the switch box, it's cheaper to get a second parallel port installed (about $50) and give the laser printer its own port. That's what I did, but it has not been without its faults. CINDEX only recognizes LPT1, so that's where I put the laser printer. Unfortunately, my Epson dot matrix doesn't like being on the LPT2 port. I have talked to the service people and they say they need to change a jumper setting on the port. I haven't had time to take the machine back to them, so I am virtually without the use of the dot matrix printer. The laser works from LPT2, but CINDEX can't get to it there. Another drawback is that I can no longer easily switch from laser to dot matrix when printing indexes. I would have to physically swap the cable connections. You are absolutely right about Murphy's Law. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:05:56 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Language change In-Reply-To: <853424581.926891.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <853424581.926891.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> on Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Hilary [i.e. Drusilla] Calvert writes >To move briefly to another Index-L-related issue - language change - >what about its and it's? Should we assume that `its' no longer exists >- I'm beginning to find it quite hard to remember which usage is >which, . . . I have never forgotten this distinction since I lost a mark for getting it wrong and was given 9/10 instead of 10/10 for an essay in primary school when I was about 7 - almost half a century ago! "Its" as a possessive pronoun has no more need of an apostrophe than "his" or "hers" - they all just happen to end with a letter "s". The contraction "it's", standing for "it is" needs the apostrophe to show that a letter has been omitted. I certainly recognise that language changes, but I think that if we just accept errors which other people make because they don't know the reasons why things are written the way they are, our language will become poorer, less effective and less interesting. I still always wince when I see "Tomato's - 30p per pound" on the greengrocer's stall. >. . . and I'm enough of a pedant to yell `the government HAS' at the >television regularly! You're on less firm ground with this one: _see_ Fowler, 2nd ed., 1965 "Number: 6. Nouns of multitude, etc." (No doubt found on every indexer's bookshelf.) Regards Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:32:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" <104146.1652@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: switchboxes Just a word of caution about using switchboxes -- read the warranty for the printer. In some cases (my HP 4 M+, for example), if you use a plain "mechanical" switchbox that's not connected to a surge suppressor, you'll void the warranty. John R. Sullivan Documentation Manager Concentric Data Systems Westborough MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 11:47:36 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Switchboxes In-Reply-To: <199701161851.KAA25834@mail6.netcom.com> You might want to try a mechanical switch box for the two printers. I use one with an HP4L and a dot matrix with no problems. Roberta Horowitz roberta@netcom.com On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Richard Evans wrote: > At 12:28 PM 1/16/97 -0600, you wrote: > >16 January 1997 > > > >I feel like a pest with all my questions about printers, but now that I've > >taken your collective advice and have bought a wonderful Hewlett Packard > >LaserJet 6P printer (thanks again, all!), I have run up against another > >problem: how to connect it to the three computers in my home office! With > >my lone dot-matrix computer, I had simply used a mechanical switch box to > >print from one computer or the other, but the mechanical switchbox doesn't > >work with the laser printer. One computer store I consulted about this > >claims that I need an "electronic print-sharing network" and recommends the > >Smartprint brand--which will cost another $200! > > Since the laser printer is the only one that is likely to be fussy about the > switch box, it's cheaper to get a second parallel port installed (about $50) > and give the laser printer its own port. > > That's what I did, but it has not been without its faults. CINDEX only > recognizes LPT1, so that's where I put the laser printer. Unfortunately, my > Epson dot matrix doesn't like being on the LPT2 port. I have talked to the > service people and they say they need to change a jumper setting on the > port. I haven't had time to take the machine back to them, so I am > virtually without the use of the dot matrix printer. The laser works from > LPT2, but CINDEX can't get to it there. > > Another drawback is that I can no longer easily switch from laser to dot > matrix when printing indexes. I would have to physically swap the cable > connections. > > You are absolutely right about Murphy's Law. > > Dick > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:29:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Re: Switchboxes In-Reply-To: <199701162000.MAA28177@mx5.u.washington.edu> My library totally killed two laser printers several years ago before we discovered that the mechanical switchbox was at fault due to small electrical spikes whenever we switched printers. We decided at that point that attaching cheap switchboxes to expensive equipment is false economy. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA. phone: 206/930-4348 email: cweaver@u.washington.edu CGWeaver@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: Storing software and other pieces of information >>How do other people deal with storing bits and pieces of information, as >>well as bits and pieces of paper? (I hope that this is sufficiently >>relevant to the topic of indexing, and that this group isn't limited to >>"back of book" indexes.) > I use the outline feature of MS Word. I have a file called Instructions and an A head for every program. When the outliner is collapsed, I can view the name of each program I've stored info for. I then expand any topic to see a list of tasks for each program. I store the actual info on the 3rd level. It was a bit a work, but I've found it invaluable. I look up info in my file when I wouldn't bother thumbing through the manual (especially 800 pp. on Windows secrets!). I also use the outliner for a client log. Each client has an A head. Each editor has a B head. Each contact is a 3rd level head. The actual info follows. Now, when talking to a client, I can easily see what all our past contacts have been, including invoice information. Susan Susan Holbert "Indexing workshops and videos" susanh@world.std.com 617-893-0514 http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 13:06:36 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Switchboxes At 12:29 PM 1/16/97 -0800, Carolyn G. Weaver wrote: >My library totally killed two laser printers several years ago before we >discovered that the mechanical switchbox was at fault due to small >electrical spikes whenever we switched printers. We decided at that point >that attaching cheap switchboxes to expensive equipment is false economy. Hmmm. I'll have to think about this one a bit. I bought an A-B-C-D switch some months ago, so that I could run my laser, my inkjet, and my data backup tape machine without messing with the cables. I've got an HP 4-MP, which so far as I know says nothing about mechanical switches voiding the warranty, plus the unit is about three or four years old anyway. I never use the switch when any of the units are turned on; I always set it where I want it with everything OFF. Would this make a difference? I can't see how I'd get electricity spikes when everything is off. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:33:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Switchboxes and printers This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --QAA26300.853449369/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --QAA26300.853449369/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/DELIVERY-STATUS Content-ID: Reporting-MTA: dns; hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Arrival-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:16:08 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; po1.indiana.edu Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:16:09 -0500 (EST) --QAA26300.853449369/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Return-Path: davidaus Received: (from davidaus@localhost) by hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7.6/8.7/1.3shakespeare) id QAA26283; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:16:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:16:07 -0500 (EST) From: David Robert Austen X-Sender: davidaus@hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu To: "Laura M. Gottlieb" cc: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Switchboxes In-Reply-To: <199701161822.NAA18346@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Greetings, Laura: Oh, first, you're not a pest. Lot's of us like to brag about our knowledge and experience and we're happy to share, especially when there are hundreds and millions getting the benefit of our collective knmowledge. Somewhere along the line I heard it might be a "bad idea" to try to use mechanical switch boxes on new laser printers. But I was daring and tried it and it worked. I wouldn't say their advice is bogus. I'd shop around even trying mail order for your new switch box. Prices vary terrifically. You might want to know what kind of connector is on your printer(s) before you buy. Good luck, David ------ On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Laura M. Gottlieb wrote: > 16 January 1997 > > I feel like a pest with all my questions about printers, but now that I've > taken your collective advice and have bought a wonderful Hewlett Packard > LaserJet 6P printer (thanks again, all!), I have run up against another > problem: how to connect it to the three computers in my home office! With > my lone dot-matrix computer, I had simply used a mechanical switch box to > print from one computer or the other, but the mechanical switchbox doesn't > work with the laser printer. One computer store I consulted about this > claims that I need an "electronic print-sharing network" and recommends the > Smartprint brand--which will cost another $200! Yikes!! > Is there some alternative to spending this $200, short of plugging and > unplugging cables directly from each computer to the printer every time I > want to print something from one of the computers? > This problem confirms me in my Murphy's Law-ish views that, (1) once > you buy some new piece of technology, you have to buy yet another, and (2) > no matter how prepared you may feel you are to ask the right questions when > buying some new piece of equipment, there will always be something else you > *should* have known to ask about. I keep hoping that in my next life, I > will come back with some mechanical, electronic, or technological aptitude! > In the meantime, in *this* life, I'd be eternally grateful for any advice on > how to connect my computers to my laser printer cheaply! Thanks in > advance!--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer and Growing Technophobe > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- --QAA26300.853449369/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:35:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: switchboxes and printers again This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --QAA08860.853450364/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --QAA08860.853450364/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/DELIVERY-STATUS Content-ID: Reporting-MTA: dns; hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Arrival-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:32:43 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; po1.indiana.edu Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:32:44 -0500 (EST) --QAA08860.853450364/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Return-Path: davidaus Received: (from davidaus@localhost) by hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7.6/8.7/1.3shakespeare) id QAA08858; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:32:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:32:43 -0500 (EST) From: David Robert Austen X-Sender: davidaus@hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu To: Sonsie cc: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Re: Switchboxes In-Reply-To: <199701162125.QAA27798@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, having it all turned OFF should certainly make a difference. *+Might** be a totally certain way of eliminating all spikes and such. Now where do you get such abilities to **plan ahead** and/ or **patiently** turn it all off if you discover you've got the wrong printer setup? I know!! You're a parent! :-) David On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Sonsie wrote: > I never use the > switch when any of the units are turned on; I always set it where I want it > with everything OFF. Would this make a difference? I can't see how I'd get > electricity spikes when everything is off. > > =Sonsie= > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- --QAA08860.853450364/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:16:28 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Re: Switchboxes In-Reply-To: <199701162134.NAA23982@mx3.u.washington.edu> Had the equipment been OFF when we used the switch, that might well have made a difference. This was at least 6-8 years ago, BTW, so there may have been improvements since then. Carolyn On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, Sonsie wrote: > At 12:29 PM 1/16/97 -0800, Carolyn G. Weaver wrote: > > >My library totally killed two laser printers several years ago before we > >discovered that the mechanical switchbox was at fault due to small > >electrical spikes whenever we switched printers. We decided at that point > >that attaching cheap switchboxes to expensive equipment is false economy. > > Hmmm. I'll have to think about this one a bit. I bought an A-B-C-D switch > some months ago, so that I could run my laser, my inkjet, and my data backup > tape machine without messing with the cables. I've got an HP 4-MP, which so > far as I know says nothing about mechanical switches voiding the warranty, > plus the unit is about three or four years old anyway. I never use the > switch when any of the units are turned on; I always set it where I want it > with everything OFF. Would this make a difference? I can't see how I'd get > electricity spikes when everything is off. > > =Sonsie= > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:06:42 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: indexer's library Does anyone out there in index-land know of a resource that can help me correctly hyphenate foreign names and place names? The automatic hyphenation feature in FrameMaker is OK but it sometimes does weird things to foreign names (actually, it hyphenated the following "homep-age" so it isn't ONLY foreign words....) TIA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:17:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Hyphenation of foreign terms The best practical resource that I have on hand for the issue of hyphenating foreign language words is The Chicago Manual of Style. Look under "word division" in the index; there is information on French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Italian, Latin, Polish, Russian, and Spanish, as well as general information on word division of other types of words in certain situations. The rules of hyphenation are quite specific in The CMS, so it should be of help. Kate Turabian; in her A Manual for Writers of Term Papers, Theses, and Dissertations; also points to The CMS as being the source for this problem. There are also foreign language dictionaries on disk that might be of help, though I havve not used any myself. Good luck. At 04:06 PM 1/16/97 CST, you wrote: > Does anyone out there in index-land know of a resource that can help >me correctly hyphenate foreign names and place names? The automatic >hyphenation feature in FrameMaker is OK but it sometimes does weird things >to foreign names (actually, it hyphenated the following "homep-age" so it >isn't ONLY foreign words....) > TIA >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Lynn A. Lonergan >Assistant Editor/Librarian >Air University Library >Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 >334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 >llonergan@max1.au.af.mil > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:00:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Language change >>. . . and I'm enough of a pedant to yell `the government HAS' at the >>television regularly! > >You're on less firm ground with this one: _see_ Fowler, 2nd ed., 1965 >"Number: 6. Nouns of multitude, etc." (No doubt found on every indexer's >bookshelf.) Well you all lost me there for a while, because of course here in the U.S. it is said, "the government has." "The government have," I discover, is an example of notional concord, which is specific to British English (as explicated in *The Oxford Companion to the English Language,* a not necessary but definitely fun book to have in an indexer's library). Cheers, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:46:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Storing bits & pieces of information In a message dated 97-01-16 10:12:03 EST, L.Will@WILLPOWER.DEMON.CO.UK (Leonard Will) writes: << How do other people deal with storing bits and pieces of information, as well as bits and pieces of paper? >> For months now I've been lusting after this advertised software & scanner system that allows you to scan in all these bits & pieces and then index them yourself for retrieval. (Of course, I forget the name of the software at the moment.) Has anyone tried or heard about this? I would love to better organize all the ripped-out magazine articles and newspaper clippings sitting in miscellaneous file folders in my office. My husband (a full-time professional director of computing) tells me that this is another one of my pipe dreams about how nice technology *could* work, that in all reality the system would probably just waste precious hard-disk space . . . BTW, I have been lurking on this list for months now. I have been working full-time as a freelancer for nearly nine years, in the publishing business for 15+. I initially did indexing (in the shoebox days), then concentrated on editing, and now I'm thinking of getting back into indexing. This list has been *immensely* helpful to me on all sorts of home-office, freelancer, and general business and indexing issues -- so I wanted to say "thanks" to all. Also, since I have several questions waiting to be asked and possible topics to discuss, I decided to take the plunge, come out of lurkdom, and introduce myself. D. Teddy Diggs DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:09:32 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Switchboxes >From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" >Subject: > >16 January 1997 > >I feel like a pest with all my questions about printers, but now that I've >taken your collective advice and have bought a wonderful Hewlett Packard >LaserJet 6P printer (thanks again, all!), I have run up against another >problem: how to connect it to the three computers in my home office! With >my lone dot-matrix computer, I had simply used a mechanical switch box to >print from one computer or the other, but the mechanical switchbox doesn't >work with the laser printer. I don't understand why it doesn't. I have a switchbox that my laser printer and my inkjet printer are connected to. The one I have is called Data Switch, has "outlets" for 4 gizmos, and cost me about $25. >One computer store I consulted about this >claims that I need an "electronic print-sharing network" and recommends the >Smartprint brand--which will cost another $200! Yikes!! I am *very* suspicious of that. I would call one of the mail-order catalogs and get their opinion. I can't give you names, because the ones I deal with carry Mac stuff. Hang in there, Laura. It should be possible to do what you want to do inexpensively. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:13:07 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Switchboxes I should add that I use the switchbox *with* a surge protector. Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:20:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Switchboxes At 09:09 AM 1/17/97 -0600, you wrote: >>From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" >>Subject: >> >>16 January 1997 >> >>I feel like a pest with all my questions about printers, but now that I've >>taken your collective advice and have bought a wonderful Hewlett Packard >>LaserJet 6P printer (thanks again, all!), I have run up against another >>problem: how to connect it to the three computers in my home office! With >>my lone dot-matrix computer, I had simply used a mechanical switch box to >>print from one computer or the other, but the mechanical switchbox doesn't >>work with the laser printer. > >I don't understand why it doesn't. It depends on whether the printer is bi-directional. Bi-directional printers won't work with most (if not all) switch boxes. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:54:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GVHatch@AOL.COM Subject: ASI So Cal Annual Conference ATTENTION INDEXERS! Registration for the ASI SoCal conference has been so low that it may have to be cancelled! We suspect that many of you are overloaded with work or are still recovering from the holidays, but you intend to register for the Long Beach conference. To encourage you to take the plunge, we make this special offer: The first 12 people to notify us by telephone or e-mail that you plan to register will receive a $10 discount off the current (Jan. 5 to 25) registration fee. That is, members may attend the conference for $75 and nonmembers for $85. (Don't forget that this includes continental breakfast and a sit-down lunch.) Even if you have already mailed your check for $85 or $95, we will refund $10 if you are among the first 12 to call or e-mail us. If the expense of the Hyatt hotel room is a problem, we have a list of hotels and motels near the Hyatt that are as low as $45/night. We can also try to fix you up with a roommate to share the cost of a room. Contact Micki Taylor at (213) 465-0827 or EMickiT@aol.com to save your space at the reduced rate. Don't delay! (Details about the conference follow.) The American Society of Indexers' Southern California Chapter invites you to our 1997 annual conference Theme: Building Your Indexing Business Hyatt Regency Long Beach, on the water near Shoreline Drive, 200 South Pine Avenue, Long Beach, CA 90802 (310-491-1234) Saturday, February 8, a full day of presentations plus networking from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. (Friday, February 7 will feature an informal reception and no-host bar at about 5:00 p.m., followed by dinner out.) Perfect Location, Beautiful Business: Come and enjoy the gorgeous weather, the world-famous area attractions, the outstanding outdoor activities; all make southern California a superior destination. This is especially true during February, when Long Beach has an average daytime temperature of 65 to 70 degrees F (above zero). Leave your snow boots at home, bring your sunglasses, and plan to relax in the sunshine after learning about building your freelance indexing business. Registration fee (includes continental breakfast and lunch): If registered before Jan. 4 (5 weeks early): ASI members, $65, non-members $75. If registered between Jan. 5 and Jan. 25 (2 weeks early): $85/$95. If registering after Jan. 25 or at the door: $100/$110. Cost of hotel room: $112 per night. Featured topics: --Frances Lennie will speak on "Beyond Basic Indexing: How to Approach Revisions, Cumulations, and Spin-Off Indexes" --Mort Wedner: "Income and Asset Protection for the Self-Employed Indexer: Taking the Mystery Out of Disability Income and Individual Long Term Care Plans" --Ann Blum will offer suggestions on "How to Increase Productivity in Your Business" --Panel: "Building an Indexing Career . . . in the Moonlight?" ...a panel discussion by freelancers who are also employed or occupied full-time in other jobs. The panel will feature Bonny McLaughlin, Micki Taylor and Gaylene Hatch. --Both of the popular indexing programs, Cindex and Macrex, will have demo tables. Also, in addition to and independent of our program, Cindex and Macrex will each offer a seminar for existing users of their programs, for a small fee. Contact them directly for more information at macrex@aol.com and ircindex@aol.com. How to register: Information and an email version of the registration form are available from E. Micki Taylor at EMickiT@aol.com. Please include the following information with your check and snail mail it to the address below: your filled-out e-mail registration form, or a sheet with your name, telephone, street address, city, state, and Zip. Each conferee will receive a list of the conferees and their addresses; if you do not want your name on this list, please so indicate on your enclosure. If you wish to share a hotel room with another conferee, say so and we'll be a clearinghouse. Send your check, made out to ASI SoCal, to E. Micki Taylor, 613 N. Plymouth Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90004-1420. If you have questions, call Micki (but not before 10:00 a.m. please) at (213) 465-0827 or e-mail her at EMickiT@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:13:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Switchboxes >> On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:13:07 -0600, >> Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com (Carol Roberts) said: C> I should add that I use the switchbox *with* a surge protector. Surge protectors are nice, but if you're serious about protecting your equipment from spikes, consider getting an APC uninterruptible power supply. I got one for my PC for around $150; the warranty says they'll insure your computer for $10,000 against damage from power surges. They also have a plug for your modem, which I really appreciate. Line spikes can come through a phone line just as easily as a power cord. -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 937-255-3688 One time I removed all the hair from a mouse with Nair-Hair just to see what it looked like. And it looked beautiful. --David Lynch, creator of "Twin Peaks" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:48:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Storing bits & pieces of information At 08:46 AM 1/17/97 -0500, DTDIGGS@AOL.COM wrote: >BTW, I have been lurking on this list for months now. I have been working >full-time as a freelancer for nearly nine years, in the publishing business >for 15+. I initially did indexing (in the shoebox days), then concentrated >on editing, and now I'm thinking of getting back into indexing. This list >has been *immensely* helpful to me on all sorts of home-office, freelancer, >and general business and indexing issues -- so I wanted to say "thanks" to >all. Also, since I have several questions waiting to be asked and possible >topics to discuss, I decided to take the plunge, come out of lurkdom, and >introduce myself. Welcome to the list, and glad you're enjoying yourself. Should we call you "D. Teddy"? Or do you have a nickname you prefer? =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:09:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Switchboxes At 09:09 AM 1/17/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >I am *very* suspicious of that. I would call one of the mail-order catalogs >and get their opinion. I can't give you names, because the ones I deal with >carry Mac stuff. Carol, this is not so oddball as it may sound. I have it on the best authority that many new printers and other devices will NOT run under a manual switchbox, and require either an electronic one or an actual separate port. Since ports are so cheap now, it might be wise to invest in a couple of extras, installed, rather than messing with any sort of switchbox. The reason, as I understand it, is that printers (and other devices) now interact constantly with the CPU in a way that they did not only a few years ago. They "talk" back and forth extensively, and you do need a bidirectional cable instead of the old-fashioned kind to use them. The switchboxes interfere in some way with this communication as well. Many new printers do say that a manual switchbox will void the warranty...a friend has been going through the same thing and has decided that adding a parallel port is easier, cheaper, and safer than fiddling with any kind of switching device. But then, he runs something like six printers off his CPU. I thought I would confirm, though, that this is not some sort of scam to make people spend unneeded money. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:09:54 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: ASI So Cal Annual Conference At 11:54 AM 1/17/97 -0500, GVHatch@AOL.COM wrote: >ATTENTION INDEXERS! > >Registration for the ASI SoCal conference has been so low that it may have >to be cancelled! Oh! This hurts! I've already registered, and will be there with bells on my toes (and other appurtenances). :-) Don't make me give up my indexing weekend...register NOW and save the day! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:09:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Switchboxes >Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 06:59:13 -0800 >To: David Robert Austen >From: Sonsie >Subject: Re: Switchboxes >Cc: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > >At 04:32 PM 1/16/97 -0500, David Robert Austen wrote: > >>Now where do you get such abilities to **plan ahead** and/ or **patiently** >>turn it all off if you discover you've got the wrong printer setup? >> >>I know!! You're a parent! > >Heh, heh. :-) > >I am...but it's probably not that complex. I only use my color printer for a few very specific tasks, which I already know I'm going to do before I do 'em--and my tape backup system only gets used once a month or so. Otherwise, the switch is always set for the laser, which is my everyday workhorse. > >I hope you're right about the spikes, as I would HATE to ruin my wonderful printer inadvertently. I've been using the switch for about a year now with no problems, so I hope it's okay. > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:39:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: sw upgrades Can anyone explain the limitations of buying an "upgrade" as opposed to the "original"? I'm using a Lotus product called SmartSuite, and the component called Word Pro is glitchy and occasionally quite slow. I think it's an upgrade and wonder if that's the reason; the original product was called AmiPro and was always my favorite word processor when I had my old, slower 386SX. Now that I've upgraded my hardware to the speedy level (Pentium 166/32 megs), it doesn't seem fair to be getting a sluggish performance for word processing!!! Thanks to you all for your many helpful posts.... Barbara Stroup, Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:27:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: sw upgrades At 07:39 PM 1/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >Can anyone explain the limitations of buying an "upgrade" as opposed to the >"original"? I'm using a Lotus product called SmartSuite, and the component >called Word Pro is glitchy and occasionally quite slow. I think it's an >upgrade and wonder if that's the reason; the original product was called >AmiPro and was always my favorite word processor when I had my old, slower >386SX. WordPro is not an upgrade in the sense that it is a newer version of a product. WordPro was a follow-on to AmiPro but otherwise not related to it. It was an upgrade in the sense that you moved from one Lotus product to another. AmiPro was my favorite word processor for years and I had looked forward to WordPro but found it so glitchy and slow that I finally gave up and switched to MS-Word. In the case of real upgrades, like MS-Word versions 5, 6, 7, and now 97, you always run the risk that the next version may be screwed up. The reasons for this are many and varied. I believe that many products that ran under Windows 3.1 were rushed to market for Windows 95 with too little testing. I believe WordPro was one of these. Sometimes development teams change from one version to another and the new team may not be as talented as the earlier one. Sometimes software houses can't resist messing with a good thing and make design changes that render an upgrade less usable than its predecessor. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:44:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Re: sw upgrades In-Reply-To: <199701180144.UAA26944@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> I largely agree with Dick Evans. It's a good idea to treat new software (including upgrades) with caution and to think carefully about testing applications fully before (for example) allowing these apps to convert all of your files from a previous version to the newer version. Keep both versions on your hard disk for months if possible. To my way of thinking, the only reason to rush out and get an upgrade is that it has a feature you really can't live without or speed you cannot live without. Same goes for upgrading to Win95. I'll probably wait until there is new (important) software that requires this operating environment. I can never get my time back that I waste when software is brought to the marketplace too soon. I probably have the biggest and best beta-testing team on the planet: tens of thousands of eager, impatient consumers. Going slow and easy . . . . David ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Richard Evans wrote: > WordPro is not an upgrade in the sense that it is a newer version of a > product. WordPro was a follow-on to AmiPro but otherwise not related to it. > It was an upgrade in the sense that you moved from one Lotus product to another. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:49:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Problem payers This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --MAA21594.851103092/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: --MAA21594.851103092/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/DELIVERY-STATUS Content-ID: Reporting-MTA: dns; hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Arrival-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:31:32 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; INDEX-L@BINGVMB.BITNET Action: failed Status: 5.1.2 Remote-MTA: DNS; po1.indiana.edu Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:31:32 -0500 (EST) --MAA21594.851103092/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Return-Path: davidaus Received: (from davidaus@localhost) by hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7.6/8.7/1.3shakespeare) id MAA21592; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:31:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:31:31 -0500 (EST) From: David Robert Austen X-Sender: davidaus@hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu To: Wildefire@AOL.COM cc: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L Subject: Problem payers for freelancers In-Reply-To: <199612200037.TAA14082@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Lynn, Hazel and all: Guess it is time for me to weigh in with my preventative strategies. My other professional group has something like a "watch list." This is a list of the names of the organizations that are slow to pay - or worse. The internet is an excellent place for Indexers to note such problems and get the word out quickly. We can be our own TRW. You don't write anything libelous, you just invite other Indexers to check with you if they would like to have the benefit of insider knowledge. In one case, a particularly poor payer agreed to pay me %50 up front when I expressed reluctance to work for him after I check with other professionals. They need _us_ too. We need to have a "village" atmosphere where constructive dialog between indexers (call it gossip?) helps us to avoid making the same mistakes again and again, working for the same knucklehead outfits again and again. Eventually, these slow payers will discover that nobody - knowing what we all do about their business methods - wants to take the chance of working for them again. One day the editors in question will descend on their AP manager and get him to "smarten up" and observe "normal" business practices so they can hire the talent they need to get their jobs done in a timely manner. It will eventually become apparent that rathole finance practices are having a deleterious effect on production and products. Then things will change. Our new year's resolution? Happy Holiday to all, David On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 Wildfire@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 96-12-19 16:39:57 EST, Hazel wrote in describing a ghastly > experience: > > > Repeated phonecalls and subtle > > threats to hold another project hostage (the project arrived while I > > was out of town on vacation; it came with a "THIS IS A RUSH > > PROJECT!" note, but I was unwilling to begin work on it until I'd > > been paid for the last project) helped not a bit. > > Hazel, > > Aiiish! What a horror story!!! In my other post to this thread, I managed to > get a client that was 85 days late to pay me by refusing to do another index > for them until I was paid. My situation was different from yours in that they > hadn't sent the proofs yet, and the editor was appropriately horrified and > shook the AP department's tree. Another difference was that the 85-day fiasco > was for the first index I ever did for them and that it was an apparent fluke > because they were the same client that later paid me extremely quickly in > time for Christmas. So, having taken a chance on them the second time, they > fortunately became one of my best clients and I'm even indexing one of their > books as we speak. > > > Accounts Payable > > said it'd be delighted to stop payment on the check that was "in the mail" > > and reissue another, but "it will take you at least two more months to > > receive a new check." > > BTW, how in the world could your client's AP department have the nerve to > threaten to stop payment on a check for work you already delivered when you > hinted at holding their current project hostage?????!!!!!!! Oh never mind! > What arrogance!!!! (Obviously this discussion has gotten me into a testy > mood.) > > Lynn Moncrief > TECHindex & Docs > Technical and Scientific Indexing > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- --MAA21594.851103092/hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:04:32 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon and Glenda Subject: RTF files are ASCII - here's a sample Sonsie wrote: >Just a note...I don't know if .RTF files are actually ASCII text (if they >were, why not just send them as ASCII?) but I do know that they retain all >formatting and special characters. That's why the format is such a godsend. >Regular ASCII text loses virtually everything in the translation. RTF files are ASCII, but they contain (_lots_ of!) embedded characters which indicate the format - a bit like a Web page, in fact. Here's a sample, taken from some training notes from an Internet course: {\rtf1\ansi\deff0\deftab720{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss MS Sans Serif;}{\f1\froman\fcharset2 Symbol;}{\f2\fnil\fprq2 FeltTip;}{\f3\froman Times New Roman;}{\f4\froman\fprq2 Times New Roman;}{\f5\fswiss\fprq2 Arial;}} {\colortbl\red0\green0\blue0;} \deflang2057\pard\qc\plain\f2\fs56 Uses of the Internet \par \plain\f4\fs24\i Dave Barry observes that the basic flaw in the\plain\f4\fs24 \plain\f4\fs24\i Internet is that humans create the information. "It's like CB radio,\plain\f4\fs24 \plain\f4\fs24\i only with more typing."\plain\f4\fs24 jaffe@scilibx.ucsc.edu \par \pard\li454\fi-454\plain\f2\fs28 Penny Post: electronic mail \par \pard\plain\f4\fs24 If traffic over the Internet is measured in bytes per kilometre, then probably most of would be made up of e-mail. E-mail provides a way of sending messages \endash mostly plain text \endash to any other Internet user. The cost of sending a message, no matter where it goes, can be anything between zero and one or two cents, depending on your setup. A message typically arrives anywhere in the world in less than an hour after it is sent \endash sometimes within a few seconds. Not surprisingly, electronic mail is rapidly replacing the postal variety, affectionately called snail-mail by Internet users. \par \pard\li454\fi-454\plain\f2\fs28 Global Newsagency: mailing lists and newsgroups \par \pard\plain\f4\fs24 Where a group of Internet subscribers share a common interest, they can set up a \plain\f4\fs24\b mailing list\plain\f4\fs24 . Then instead of sending messages to each other as individuals, relevant messages can be sent to the list and redistributed to each member in the group. A mailing list like this can have anywhere from less than ten to more than a thousand members \endash and most of them are free for anyone on the Internet to join. There are mailing lists for indexers, PC trainers, parents of small children, physicists, mathematicians... about 4,000 in all \endash and the number is growing. \par } The backslash is used to indicate a formatting code is coming. Of course, you normally don't see the formatting characters because your word processing program 'interprets' them for you. RTF files containing bitmapped graphics are likely to be huge because (I believe) each pixel in the graphic has to be convered to a text code. Jonathan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:18:00 GMT0 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: RTF files are ASCII Another great thing about RTF files is that you can split them up into sections and send them as a series of emails if you really can't get a file transfer any other way. They appear to be almost indestructible - you can put hard returns into them all over the place and they don't turn a hair - because they'll only notice a hard return when it is coded as such by RTF. The important things are the open { at the beginning and the closing } at the end. However, a warning. If you send an RTF file to a publisher as an email you have to be very sure they know what they're receiving. If they load it into their copy of Word as an ascii file it'll appear exactly as the file Jonathan gave as an example. The program has to be told that it is to treat it as an RTF file. I had a problem when I sent an index (from USA to UK) and got a message back saying that there were all these weird codes which the publisher's computer department couldn't understand (!!) and so they were planning to abandon it. This meant a rather expensive phone call taking the editor through the process of importing the file, but ended up with ecstatic excitement when it succeeded! Drusilla (not Hilary) Calvert hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:56:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: RTF files are ASCII - here's a sample In-Reply-To: <199701181033.AA02767@world.std.com> A couple of indexing questions from my current job: How would you index the "Malcolm Baldridge Award quality template?" I don't think anyone would look for it under M but who knows? M or B? Also, I usually add the designation (fig.) or (illus.) after a page number that refers to a figure. In this book especially, the illustration is often on a separate page from the text describing it - a page or two later. Do you prefer (fig.) or (illus.)? What if there are multiple illustrations on a single page? On multiple pages? Sometimes if there are three illustrations of one thing, I can break it down into subentries but a previous book I indexed had about five illustrations of different varieties of cellular phone antennas. There was no distinction made in the text or in the figure caption. I think antennas celluar phone. 104 (illus.), 105 (illus.), 106 (illus.)...... is ugly and awkward. As I discussed in a previous message, I'm still making a list of copyediting errors. There are many so I'm trying to stick to only the most obvious (figure captions that don't match the text, inconsistent use of hyphens/capitalization, etc.). The PE doesn't seem pleased and this is my first job for her (but not for the publisher) so I'm being careful. Thanks in advance, Sarag ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:20:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bingvmb.bitnet: host not found) AOL has consistently returned misc replies to Index-L via bitnet for the past week. --------------------- Forwarded message: From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: WordenDex@aol.com Date: 97-01-18 12:14:12 EST The original message was received at Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:13:36 -0500 (EST) from root@localhost -o /aol/sendmail/lib/sendmail.oe ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- INDEX-L@bingvmb.bitnet (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 INDEX-L@bingvmb.bitnet... Host unknown (Name server: bingvmb.bitnet: host not found) ----- Original message follows ----- Return-Path: WordenDex@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA24861 for INDEX-L@bingvmb.bitnet; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:13:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:13:36 -0500 (EST) From: WordenDex@aol.com Message-ID: <970118121335_1758685719@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: INDEX-L@bingvmb.bitnet Subject: Re: Baldridge Award Baldridge (Malcolm) Award quality template ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:41:16 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: RTF files are ASCII At 11:18 AM 1/18/97 GMT0, Hilary Calvert wrote: >However, a warning. If you send an RTF file to a publisher as an email >you have to be very sure they know what they're receiving. If they load >it into their copy of Word as an ascii file it'll appear exactly as the >file Jonathan gave as an example. It's been my experience that most of the editors I work with are not very comfortable with computer technology. In fact, it was only a month or so ago that I was able to persuade my first editor to accept an email index file! It has been necessary for me to explain to some clients what an ASCII file is, how one can transmit files via modem, and so on. Most editors seem to prefer a paper copy to check and edit, and would rather leave the tecchie stuff to the compositor or whoever handles file transfers in-house. I use WordPerfect, which, when importing an "outside" file, immediately produces a dialog box that says, "This file is not in WP format. Please select the correct format from this list," or some such wording. The program won't even open the file until you've chosen the correct format, and I assume that virtually all upper-end word-processing programs have a similar setup. This helps to avoid the strange-looking index problem, as long as the recipient knows that the file you have sent is in RTF format. Of course, if you just select any old format from the list, WP will open the file that way, and you'll end up with gibberish. But at least there's a point at which the user =has= to select a format, and if he or she knows it should be RTF, it'll open properly. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:41:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: RTF files are ASCII - here's a sample At 09:56 AM 1/18/97 -0500, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: >How would you index the "Malcolm Baldridge Award quality template?" I >don't think anyone would look for it under M but who knows? M or B? Sarah, I'd put the Baldrige award under B, but if you don't have a length problem I'd put it under M as well. I've actually had to index this entry a couple of times and have put it both places because it's commonly referred to both ways. (I have a philosophical problem with using a "See" reference if there are only one or two page number references. You don't save a line, but merely annoy the reader if he/she is sent somewhere else for a single page number.) Also, I can't put my hands on a good reference this morning, but check the spelling of "Baldridge." I'm almost positive it has one less D in it that one wants it to have, and I believe the second D should disappear. I know, because I made that error once and luckily caught it before the index went to the editor. >Also, I usually add the designation (fig.) or (illus.) after a page number >that refers to a figure. In this book especially, the illustration is >often on a separate page from the text describing it - a page or two >later. I use italics or bold to indicate illustrations or figures, rather than appending an abbreviation to each page number. This takes less space and seems to work better, but be sure to include this information in the headnote for your index. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:44:13 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: figures and illustrations Figures and tables in medical books are often indicated by an italicized ^f^ or ^t^ after the page number. Styles differ on whether to repeat the page number for the text item AND the figure or table. In other types of books I often put an explanatory note at the top of the index as follows: "Page numbers in italics refer to pages which contain illustrations." Or something similar, depending on the case. That way, I only have to put a page number in once. So often we are given length limitations. Anything we can do to simplify and shorten is good. I would not use "illus" or "fig" unless the publisher specifically required it. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:44:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: One more question about figures In-Reply-To: <199612022252.AA15146@world.std.com> ANother situation I encounter frequently: What if the figure is in the middle of a sequence of pages on a subject, for example, flowcharts, 14-17, 16 (fig.) Is there a better way to index this situation? Should I bag the (fig.) part altogether? Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:55:31 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bingvmb.bitnet: host not found) At 12:20 PM 1/18/97 -0500, WordenDex@AOL.COM wrote: >AOL has consistently returned misc replies to Index-L via bitnet for the >past week. The Bitnet address doesn't work at all for most people. Try this: index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:55:32 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: One more question about figures At 12:44 PM 1/18/97 -0500, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: >ANother situation I encounter frequently: > >What if the figure is in the middle of a sequence of pages on a subject, >for example, > >flowcharts, 14-17, 16 (fig.) > >Is there a better way to index this situation? Should I bag the (fig.) >part altogether? I would. With Macrex (and, I assume, Cindex), one can create the page range (14-17) in roman, then make 16 in italic or bold, and it will stand out separately: 14-17, 16 (imagine this 16 is bold or ital) Where it is not absolutely required by an editor, though, I seldom use this approach. If the flowchart itself is embedded in a four-page discussion of flowcharts, and it isn't, in and of itself, worthy of a separate index reference, I would just give the page range. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:48:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: mentors (yet again!) Sometime back Willa MacAllen inquired about mentoring at the ASI conference. I never saw a reply. Will their be any specific programs for indexing newbies? Willa MacAllen inquired back on Jan 4: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Clients and Computers Sonsie wrote: << It's been my experience that most of the editors I work with are not very comfortable with computer technology. >> My experience just a day or two ago .... I sent an index to a new client, and sent put 3 versions of the file on the disk -- a MS Word (.doc) file, an RTF file, and a .txt file. I did this because there were italics in the file, so the RTF was the desirable one, but not everybody can use this file, I thought, so best to include the textfile just in case. In the midst of her "further edit" of the file, and calling me with questions (another topic entirely!), this editor called again and left me a phone message saying "Janet, I just put the disk in and saw that there were 3 files on the disk. Which is the correct one? Which should I use?" Fortunately, I wasn't home at the time, or I don't know which I would have done -- laughed in her face, or something slightly more aggressive. When I finally spoke to her later (in response to one of her many post-submission questions), she mentioned it again, and said she had opened the textfile and not found the italics she expected, so she had to put them in (!!). I told her why there were 3 files, civilly, and that I had assumed (with inflection) that if she was used to getting files on disk, that she'd know that the RTF file was the one that would retain the formatting. She said, very quietly, "oh." I rest my case. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:35:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Problem payers >> On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:49:16 -0500 (EST), >> David Robert Austen said: D> We need to have a "village" atmosphere where constructive dialog between D> indexers (call it gossip?) helps us to avoid making the same mistakes again D> and again, working for the same knucklehead outfits again and D> again. Eventually, these slow payers will discover that nobody - knowing D> what we all do about their business methods - wants to take the chance of D> working for them again. D> One day the editors in question will descend on their AP manager and get him D> to "smarten up" and observe "normal" business practices so they can hire the D> talent they need to get their jobs done in a timely manner. It will D> eventually become apparent that rathole finance practices are having a D> deleterious effect on production and products. Then things will change. Exactly. More people need to understand that reputation can do far more than regulation to motivate civilized behavior on the part of businesses. -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 937-255-3688 If you can't hear me, it's because I'm in parentheses. --Steven Wright ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:57:32 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Clients and Computers In-Reply-To: <853615457.1015745.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> I've been interested to read the discussion about RTF files, but perhaps it is worth mentioning that if you know that the person you are sending a file to can read the format used by your wordprocessor (.doc, .wpd or whatever), then you can normally send the file in its native format as a MIME attachment to an email message. Most modern email sofware can handle MIME, and it makes it very easy to attach a file of any kind - even images or programs if you wish. There's no need for format conversion because the software does it all. Worth investigating if you don't know about it. Leonard Will ----------------------------------------------- P.S. Perhaps I should have introduced myself before contributing - I've lurked on this list for some time, on and off, and don't feel like a new member, though I've only occasionally had anything to contribute. I've worked in libraries for many years, particularly in museums and with a lot of computerisation, and am particularly interested in all aspects of information management. I'm now working as a consultant, in partnership with my wife, Sheena. More information if you're interested, on our Web site - see signature block below. We have done some book indexing, if that makes us more respectable here, but it was on the economy of Afghanistan, and they've had a war or two since then which makes it rather out of date . . . -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:45:33 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: Re: Storing bits & pieces of information In-Reply-To: <853508899.929217.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <853508899.929217.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> on Fri, 17 Jan 1997, DTDIGGS@AOL.COM writes > >For months now I've been lusting after this advertised software & scanner >system that allows you to scan in all these bits & pieces and then index them >yourself for retrieval. (Of course, I forget the name of the software at the >moment.) Has anyone tried or heard about this? I would love to better >organize all the ripped-out magazine articles and newspaper clippings sitting >in miscellaneous file folders in my office. My husband (a full-time >professional director of computing) tells me that this is another one of my >pipe dreams about how nice technology *could* work, that in all reality the >system would probably just waste precious hard-disk space . . . > There are lots of commercial "document management" systems which do this, sometimes using optical character recognition to make all the words in the document searchable, but I agree with your husband that they are probably not practicable for personal use. Scanning in full text will take up a lot of space, but you can still store an index entry to tell you that you have information and which shelf you have put it on. My interest is more in the intellectual organisation of material than with physical organisation for storage. I use a variety of boxes, shelf files and folders, and try to arrange everything as far as possible in one sequence on my office shelves, interfiled with books and pamplets, by Dewey Decimal Classification (what else do you expect from a librarian? :-) ), with an alphabetical index to subjects held as a computer file in Corel's InfoCentral, which allows me to retrieve on any word in the subject headings I have allocated. There are some systems sold for organising notes, which allow you to type in odd pieces of information or ideas as you come across them and then allow you to retrieve them when you've partly forgotten what they were. Good indexing again seems essential, but I'd be interested to hear of anyone's experience with these. Leonard -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:13:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: figures and illustrations I would add that if you have a series of pages with illustrations, even if there is also text on them, and you have very good reason for indexing the illustrations separately, I would index the page numbers >antennas > celluar phone. 104 (illus.), 105 (illus.), 106 (illus.)...... as: cellular phone, 104-106 where 104-106 is in italic. Again, a headnote with the information that italics indicates illustrations (of any nature) is important. I prefer the designation "illustration", generally. If tables are involved, "illustration or table" will suffice unless it is a more complex index requiring you to specify which one it is, in which case an italic "i" or "t" appended to the italic page numbers and noted as such will work, as Elinor described. In other words--I make the system as simple as it can be given the context. Some styles specify not to index illustrations at all, some only to index illustrations separately if they appear on a physically separate page from the text, and others want each and every instance to be referenced. El-hi history textbooks frequently require a system of three different appended codes for the different kinds of material presented in the book, plus regular text refs. That gets complex and messy, but it it done for a multitude of reasons. Simplify, simplify. Now, back to my deadline. Best, Victoria ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:22:13 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Clients and Computers At 02:22 PM 1/18/97 -0500, JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: >My experience just a day or two ago .... I sent an index to a new client, >and sent put 3 versions of the file on the disk -- a MS Word (.doc) file, >an RTF file, and a .txt file. I did this because there were italics in the >file, so the RTF was the desirable one, but not everybody can use this >file, I thought, so best to include the textfile just in case. Janet, at least twice in recent months I have had to explain to an editor what ASCII was. These people literally did not know the term, or what it meant, or anything other than that was what they were supposed to ask for! And up until, say, two years ago, most of my clients did not have computers at their desks. In one company, there was =one= computer in the whole department, and nobody but the computer guru was allowed to use it. At other places, there was a sprinkling of technically-abled editors but most were still completely in the dark. I've finally made some headway about emailing index files when I've suggested that the company will save the cost of FedExing 30-50 pages of paper copy plus a disk. This rings a bell! Another thing I do when I send floppies (which most editors still prefer) is always include a README.1ST file...which I save in ASCII so anybody can access it. In this file, I give detailed instructions on how to work with the index file, what format it is in, how I've coded italics and bold (if I've done that separately), and so on. I also include my contact info (name, phone number, email and snail mail addresses) in case the disk goes to the compositor without any cover letter and THEY don't know what to do with it. I don't know how often this file is read or used, but it makes me feel like I am doing a better job. And, when I do submit an index electronically, I always send it as an attachment and the email note to which it is attached gives the same information. Just in case. You never know... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:14:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Malcolm Baldridge I would argue that the Malcolm Baldridge (sp?) Award should be indexed under the letter "M." This is not longer a personal name subject to inversion, but the name of an award. Just as Marshall Field's Co. would be listed under "M" even though Field, Marshall, III would be listed inverted. Fred Leise "Between the LInes" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:27:24 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: T-TELCOM message [fwd] Sorry, everybody; please don't flame me! This chap seems to have such an interesting working situation that I couldn't resist forwarding the message. The header, while fascinating to us technical types, was as long as the message and has been removed. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: RE: Introduction Date: 18-Jan-97 at 09:37 From: "Brian J. Dooley", INTERNET:bjdooleyouthern.co.nz I'm a freelance technical writer/author/journalist living in rural New = Zealand. Extreme isolation and a small local economy means that I do a = little bit of everything-manuals, magazine articles, technical reports, = multimedia, help systems (& online), books, and so forth. No single = market is strong enough; even manuals are hardware, software and = consumer electronics-no specialisation here! The other result is that I = do EVERYTHING over the Internet-marketing, sales, research, delivery, = etcetera. Much of my business is international-publishers in the US and = Japan. Even the local magazines I writer for are in Auckland, which is = on the other Island and 1000 miles away. For sales, incidentally (as = someone was asking), I am using my homepage as one thing, plus local = brochure mailings (for manuals); for publishers, I search for contacts = on the Web and go after them using email. Cheers all,=20 BJD -=3D- >> Mailing list for telecommuting & freelancing << >> technical communicators << >> Please send your messages to t-telcom@twh.msn.sub.org << >> (Un)subscribe by writing to listserv@twh.msn.sub.org, << >> put SUBSCRIBE t-telcom or UNSUBSCRIBE t-telcom in the body << >> Questions, ideas forward to avobert@twh.msn.sub.org << -=- >> Mailing list for telecommuting & freelancing << >> technical communicators << >> Please send your messages to t-telcom@twh.msn.sub.org << >> (Un)subscribe by writing to listserv@twh.msn.sub.org, << >> put SUBSCRIBE t-telcom or UNSUBSCRIBE t-telcom in the body << >> Questions, ideas forward to avobert@twh.msn.sub.org << ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:47:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge I agree with Fred. The first letter in alphabetization should be M for Malcolm. We should consider the award in the same general category as a title or corporate body (stretching it maybe but that is the way it seems--it is not a personal name), which is not inverted, but rather entered in direct order. See Wellisch, Indexing A to Z, page 103. If you wanted to post an entry under Baldridge Award or some such thing that the user might look under, it is possible to do so, as long as there is a See reference from that posting to the correct form of the name; i.e., Malcolm Baldridge Award...). See Wellisch's index, where page 320 is the site for Wheatley, H. B. and also Wheatley Medal (the index has it as medal but the text has it as Medal). There is also the H. W. Wilson Company Award...listed in Wellisch's index as such. The index to Mulvany's Indexing Books has the Wilson Award as a cross-reference to the ASI-H. W. Wilson Award, which is the correct form of the name. Both sets of indexing standards and AACR2 confirm this practice of direct order for entities of this sort, as does the CMS (The Chicago Manual of Style). At 08:14 PM 1/18/97 -0500, Locatelli@AOL.COM wrote: >I would argue that the Malcolm Baldridge (sp?) Award should be indexed under >the letter "M." This is not longer a personal name subject to inversion, but >the name of an award. Just as Marshall Field's Co. would be listed under "M" >even though Field, Marshall, III would be listed inverted. > >Fred Leise >"Between the LInes" Indexing and Editorial Services > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:27:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge At 08:14 PM 1/18/97 -0500, Locatelli@AOL.COM wrote: >I would argue that the Malcolm Baldridge (sp?) Award should be indexed under >the letter "M." This is not longer a personal name subject to inversion, but >the name of an award. Just as Marshall Field's Co. would be listed under "M" >even though Field, Marshall, III would be listed inverted. I agree that it is no longer "just" someone's name. The confusion, IMO, comes in because many people call it "the Malcolm Baldrige award" and many others call it "the Baldrige award"--and some may not know the whole name, only the last name. In fact, the last time I saw it referred to in print, it was called just the Baldrige award. That's why I suggest listing it both ways if at all possible. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:27:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge At 10:47 PM 1/18/97 -0500, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >I agree with Fred. The first letter in alphabetization should be M for >Malcolm. We should consider the award in the same general category as a >title or corporate body (stretching it maybe but that is the way it >seems--it is not a personal name), which is not inverted, but rather entered >in direct order. See Wellisch, Indexing A to Z, page 103. If you wanted to >post an entry under Baldridge Award or some such thing that the user might >look under, it is possible to do so, as long as there is a See reference >from that posting to the correct form of the name; i.e., Malcolm Baldridge >Award...). I wouldn't think of disagreeing with Wellisch or you, Cynthia, on the rule in this case. What I am saying is that many people do not KNOW that the full name is Malcolm Baldrige Award, and would not think to look under M. And, if there are only one or two page numbers for that heading, IMO it is annoying to the reader to be sent to yet another place (once they have looked under B for Baldrige) to find those page numbers. It's my practice to simply double post in these cases, rather than sending the reader scurrying from pillar to post. I know the rule for using "See," and if there are more than just one or two page numbers, or if there is another good reason to do so, I will conform to the rule. But especially in this case, reader-friendliness seems to dictate that double-posting the entry is the best choice. IMO of course. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:55:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge I would opt for Malcolm Baldridge Award and Award, Malcolm Baldrige with little doubt that most users would find the entry through the second route. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:36:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge I agree with Sonsie that if there are only a few page references, it would be best to post both under M and B. I've indexed a few books for the American Society for Quality Control (ASQC) and have just checked what I did. It depended on how the author worded the name of the award. In one index, I put everything (two subentries) under Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award, with a See cross-reference from Baldrige, Malcolm. Another book *only* used the term Baldrige Award, so I put everything there. In that case, I didn't put a cross-reference under M, though in retrospect I wish I had. As you can guess from the way I spelled the name above, I believe that Baldrige is correct (although it doesn't *seem* right, since we're so used to spelling 'bridge' with a 'd'.) And to help confirm this, here's a bit of the trivia that I've learned while indexing: I recently indexed a book (for another client) by Letitia Baldrige, the ettiquette expert. The book was on teaching manners to children and she reminisced about her childhood, including references to her brother Malcolm. I assume this is the same man who later became Secretary of Commerce; I'd have to look up his obituary to be sure though. Cheers, Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:51:22 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: Proofreading list Greetings: You may recall a post that I made a few months ago asking about the history of this list, and that Charlotte very kindly responded to my question. In that post, I commented that I would like to see a list started for proofreading as well. Amazingly, I had a couple of positive responses to that post--both from Index-L subscribers, as well as Copyedit-L subscribers. I've also received a very lengthy description of the steps involved in creating a new list from Beth Goelzer Lyons of CE-L, in addition to responses from a few people who would be interested in seeing this happen. It should be noted that this new list would be separate from either index-l or ce-l. It's sole purpose would be to provide a list just to discuss issues relating to proofreading. My query is this: Is there anyone else on this liit who would have both the time and interest to help establish a proofreading list. Obviously, this will be a learning experience for anyone involved, but will be easier thanks to the information provided to me by Beth Lyons from ce-l. Please send me an email privately if you are interested in working with me on this project. I'll keep you informed of our progress, if there is interest. Willa MacAllen macallen@tiac.net (...on a cooooold winter morning--thank goodness I didn't schedule a trip snowshoeing this weekend... :-)) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:37:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldrige Both Sonsie and Mary are absolutely right about the use of double-posting versus cross-referencing in the case of only a few page locators. This is an exception to the general rule: Mulvany states "The general rule is that organizational names should appear in uninverted form; cross-references should be provided when necessary." She follows this with a discussion of double-posting examples illustrating exceptions to the general rule. (pages 177-78) I think there are deeper issues that we are dealing with here. One is that of the correct form of the name taking precedence, meaning that inversion of names of organizations and other entities is not to be encouraged, unless there is a comonly-used form of the name. In the case of the Baldrige Award, since this seems to be a common use of the name, then it is acceptable practice to either double-post it when there are few page locators or to make a cross-reference from it to Malcolm Baldrige Award if there are numerous page locators. If space is not an issue in the index, then this exception to the general rule is not completely necessary. The second issue is this: Even if space is an issue in an index, you could argue the following--Yes, you will be making it easier for the user if you double-post, but you might also be depriving the user of perhaps learning that the name of the award is more complex than just Baldrige Award, even if the author used that term most of the time in the text. The user will go to Baldrige Award and that will be that. He/she may or may not find out the full name from the text. Perhaps that user will have to use another information retrieval system where Baldrige Award is indexed only under Malcolm Baldrige Award, etc. Some may say that this is not the job of the indexer, but it does add value to the index as an information retrieval tool to include the full form of the name where the user can find it, perhaps helping the user more in the long run. Just my opinion on a cold Sunday morning. At 09:36 AM 1/19/97 -0500, MaryMort@AOL.COM wrote: >I agree with Sonsie that if there are only a few page references, it would be >best to post both under M and B. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:55:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge At 05:55 AM 1/19/97 -0800, Pam Rider wrote: >I would opt for > >Malcolm Baldridge Award > >and > >Award, Malcolm Baldrige > >with little doubt that most users would find the entry through the second >route. I'd agree...if the book was strewn with award names, and if the main heading, "Awards," would thus have several subheadings for individual honors. As a user though, I'm sure I'd check under the Bs or the Ms first. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:55:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge At 09:36 AM 1/19/97 -0500, MaryMort@AOL.COM wrote: >As you can guess from the way I spelled the name above, I believe that >Baldrige is correct (although it doesn't *seem* right, since we're so used to >spelling 'bridge' with a 'd'.) And to help confirm this, here's a bit of the >trivia that I've learned while indexing: I recently indexed a book (for >another client) by Letitia Baldrige, the ettiquette expert. The book was on >teaching manners to children and she reminisced about her childhood, >including references to her brother Malcolm. I assume this is the same man >who later became Secretary of Commerce; I'd have to look up his obituary to >be sure though. Absolutely fascinating! This question of spelling has so annoyed me that I've wasted a fair amount of time over the last 24 hours trying to locate the correct spelling...both in my reference collection and in the books I've indexed (where I =know= I've included it at least a couple of times). ARGH! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:55:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldrige At 11:37 AM 1/19/97 -0500, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >I think there are deeper issues that we are dealing with here. [Friendly snip...] >Even if space is an issue in an index, you could argue >the following--Yes, you will be making it easier for the user if you >double-post, but you might also be depriving the user of perhaps learning >that the name of the award is more complex than just Baldrige Award, even if the author used that term most of the time in the text. The user will go >to >Baldrige Award and that will be that. He/she may or may not find out the >full name from the text. Perhaps that user will have to use another >information retrieval system where Baldrige Award is indexed only under >Malcolm Baldrige Award, etc. Some may say that this is not the job of the >indexer, but it does add value to the index as an information retrieval >tool to include the full form of the name where the user can find it, >perhaps helping the user more in the long run. I hadn't thought of this issue...at least, not in the context of the Baldrige award. While it's probably NOT our job to seriously educate readers, we can certainly do a little gentle prodding when possible. How about: Baldrige Award (Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award), p.17 and Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award, p. 17 as two separate entries? I know I've done this complete spelling out in other cases where it seemed useful, along with double-posting in many cases. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:32:40 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Clients and computers >I sent an index to a new client, and >sent put 3 versions of the file on the disk -- a MS Word (.doc) file, an RTF >file, and a .txt file. I did this because there were italics in the file, so >the RTF was the desirable one, but not everybody can use this file, I >thought, so best to include the textfile just in case. In my experience, it's dangerous to give ANY client more than one version of a document unless you're physically present to ensure that they don't do something silly. I once gave a client two versions of a review draft of a user's manual. One had questions about omissions, contradictions, etc. embedded in the text, using indented paragraphs and a distinctive typeface. That was for review by the client's employees, whom I needed to answer the questions. The other version had no embedded questions. That was for the client's customers. Clipped to the diskette was a printed note explaining what each file was for. The reviews came back several weeks later with a note: "Dear Jonathan, you forgot to remove the embedded questions when you submitted the document for review, so I whited them out before circulating it..." This was at a large company in the computer industry. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:27:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Clients and computers Jonathan, A correction, please. Or perhaps you misunderstood. I didn't give my client 3 *versions* of an index. I gave my client the same index file in 3 different file formats. No different information added or removed. Just a question of providing them with a useful file format after receiving no input from them on their preference. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:56:33 +0200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Harvey Kaniel Subject: Re: Storing bits & pieces of information Greetings Indexers: There is a program called InfoRecall by Curtran Consulting in Toronto which many people have found useful for organizing notes, and information tidbits. Here is an excerpt from their opening Help screen. InfoRecall is specifically made to store and find personal and business information. InfoRecall ties all your information together, across all InfoRecall files and records with its powerful search features. No programming necessary! Whether you are a business person, a professional or run a household, there is lots of information to organize: Pieces of Information, normally scatter stored Contracts, clauses, provisos and stipulations. Health and medical terms referenced and explained. Business terms, concepts, practices, policies, etc. Words and Terms Advertising, Slogans, Campaigns Words that Sell A collection of Letters Customer Records Client Lists Inventories Product Lists Membership Lists Obscure English words and terms Foreign Languages, Corporate training aid for all kinds of subjects. You can cross reference any word to any record and instantly access these records. Every piece of text, every word, can be treated as a linkable element of your information system. InfoRecall supports not only links between text, but also between files in its hypertext like environment to provide a robust multi-file access medium. The program is shareware with a more-complete program available upon registration. Hope this helps. Best wishes, Harvey Kaniel hkan@netvision.net.il >At 07:45 PM 01/18/97 +0000, Leonard Will wrote: >>In message <853508899.929217.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> on Fri, 17 Jan 1997, >>DTDIGGS@AOL.COM writes >>> >>>For months now I've been lusting after this advertised software & scanner >>>system that allows you to scan in all these bits & pieces and then index them >>>yourself for retrieval. (Of course, I forget the name of the software at the > > > >>There are some systems sold for organising notes, which allow you to >>type in odd pieces of information or ideas as you come across them and >>then allow you to retrieve them when you've partly forgotten what they >>were. Good indexing again seems essential, but I'd be interested to hear >>of anyone's experience with these. >> >>Leonard >> >> >>-- >>Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) >>Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 >>27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 >>L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk >>------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- >> >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:48:00 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Presler Subject: Re: Clients and computers Jonathon, >In my experience, it's dangerous to give ANY client more than one version of >a document unless you're physically present to ensure that they don't do >something silly. > I agree. If you give a client more than absolutely necessary, either they won't know to do with it or they will invariably use the wrong one. What I do is submit the version that I personally like the best and if they need a different format, they ask for it. The only other option I see is for them to specify the desired format in advance. John Presler ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:48:02 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Presler Subject: Re: Storing bits & pieces of information Hi Harvey, >There is a program called InfoRecall by Curtran Consulting >in Toronto which many people have found useful for organizing >notes, and information tidbits. Here is an excerpt from their >opening Help screen. > >The program is shareware with a more-complete program available >upon registration. > You mentioned that the software is shareware. Is it available for download off the Internet? If so, do you know the URL? Thanks, John Presler ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:53:30 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: designations for figures (was: RTF files are ASCII - here's a sample) >>Also, I usually add the designation (fig.) or (illus.) after a page number >>that refers to a figure. In this book especially, the illustration is >>often on a separate page from the text describing it - a page or two >>later. > >I use italics or bold to indicate illustrations or figures, rather than >appending an abbreviation to each page number. This takes less space and >seems to work better, but be sure to include this information in the >headnote for your index. These are the kinds of questions I ask the production editor rather than making a decision on my own that they may be unhappy with. Many of the production editors I work with don't like the locator in itals, because in some fonts it's very hard to tell that they're itals. My clients have been asking me lately to use either (fig.) or (illus.). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:53:38 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: One more question about figures >What if the figure is in the middle of a sequence of pages on a subject, >for example, > >flowcharts, 14-17, 16 (fig.) > Most of my clients want it just that way, so that's how I do it. They want the figure or illustration to be separately identified even if there's only one page of discussion and the fig. falls on that same page, as in flowcharts, 16, 16 (fig.) I'm sure it depends a lot on the book. I doubt very much that I'd do that in trade books, but this is the sort of thing I go over with the production editor before I begin indexing. I go down a whole list of routine questions. Don't others do this? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:53:44 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Storing bits & pieces of information The Visioneer PaperPort will do that; you can store what's scanned in as graphics or use the OCR software that comes with it to convert it to text. But I agree with your husband that it will take up a LOT of disk space. OTOH, keeping a simple list of where you put stuff in your office would take up hardly any space on your computer (but would take up more space in your office, sigh). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:10:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: queries (was: Clients and computers) >The reviews came back several weeks later with a note: "Dear Jonathan, you >forgot to remove the embedded questions when you submitted the document for >review, so I whited them out before circulating it..." > Jonathan's story raises some questions I've been meaning to ask here for a while. I'm wondering about others' techniques for sending queries about indexes. I'm concerned that if you send an index with the queries embedded (even if you send along a note), those queries might actually make it into print. What I do is embed the queries as I go along this way: Taylor [first name?], 20-23 I'm using Cindex, so when I'm done keying everything in and editing, I do a "find all" for the character "[," which then gives me a temporary grouping of all my queries. I save that grouping as a text file. Then I go back and delete every query from the index itself to make absolutely they will not find their way into the finished book. The text file of the queries can then be sent to the author or production editor along with the index. I'd like to hear how others have handled this. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:53:51 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge Although I agree with Cindy and Fred that it is correct to index under M and in general under the first significant word of the proper title of an award or corporation, I would urge double-posting if at all possible. Many people do call the thing the Baldridge Award (or is it Baldrige?)--similarly, the Wilson Award. And if you can't remember that first name or initials, you're stuck. Come to think of it, do you ever see the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum indexed under S? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:17:18 -0600 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldridge I like the solution in which the full name appears parenthetically after the shortened name, but this isn't always practical when you have many entried that would require this, when you have a space limitation, and when the author may not use the full name of an institution in the text. Case in point, Carol's question about the Guggenheim Museum prompted me to check an index I did on a Frank Lloyd Wright book,,,, and sure enough the museum is in the G's, along with all the Guggenheim family members, because the text only cites it as Guggenheim Museum AND because there was a space limitation that would have precluded even cross-referencng everything AND as I recall, the book was full of names of houses for people and I had to decide to put them all under the last names ("Dana-Thomas House") rather than under the full personal names, where no one would find them easily. I ususally opt for putting it first where it is correct and full, but I clearly break my own rule about this when circumstances warrant. Nothing suits an indexer better than flexibility :) Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:34:29 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing Subject: Last name first? In a former life as a newspaper index editor, we handled personal name companies (and museums, et al) this way: Baldrige (Malcolm) Museum Guggenheim (Solomon) Museum Moscone (George) Center Wilson (H. W.) Company Don't recall if that's an accepted form somewhere (LC, for instance) or if we just adopted it ourselves. A music book that we publish handles groups this way: Petty, Tom, & the Heartbreakers Seger, Bob, & the Silver Bullet Band Even though the official name is "Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers," we assume people will look under Petty, not Tom. Larry Baker Gale Research Larry_Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:52:29 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Judith A. Jablonski" Subject: Three Questions Dear Colleagues, I am teaching a Master's level indexing class this spring. Would any of you have some thoughts on the following three questions? 1) For those of you using Cindex, what changed from version 5.0 to 6.0 (or 6.1) -- and did you like or dislike the changes? [I am having my students do an assignment using Cindex and would find your comments helpful in presenting the Cindex Demo.] 2) Unfortunately, our Cindex User Manual is 'gone missing.' We only have the 5.0 version. Can anyone comment on the change in the User Manual from version to version? [I realize I can call/email the Cindex folk myself -- in fact I have discussed the basics with them already. But what I am looking for is an in-the-trenches perspective.] 3) Near the end of the course we cover "Index Evaluation." I have the ASI brochure but would like to find some articles or editorials or whatever for the students to read. Thus far my searching on the Library Literature database hasn't turned up much. Any ideas? I am thinking of book indexing of all kinds as well as any sort of database or computer-project indexing. Please reply to me privately -- I'll post a summary if it looks like it would be useful to the List. Many thanks, Judith Jablonski (jajablon@macc.wisc.edu) *************************************** Judith A. Jablonski School of Library and Information Studies University of Wisconsin - Madison Email: jajablon@macc.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:03:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: queries (was: Clients and computers) In a message dated 97-01-20 11:10:10 EST, Carol Roberts wrote: << I'd like to hear how others have handled this. >> Carol, Instead of embedding my queries into the electronic file, I note them on the index manuscript. I make sure to use a red pen when so doing, ala proofreading. Also, I note in my cover letter that there are queries on the index manuscript. Sometimes I'll even flag the pages with mini-sticky notes, so as to spare the editor extra page flipping. Good luck, Pilar Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:09:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: queries (was: Clients and computers) At 10:10 AM 1/20/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >What I do is embed the queries as I go along this way: > >Taylor [first name?], 20-23 > >I'm using Cindex, so when I'm done keying everything in and editing, I do a >"find all" for the character "[," which then gives me a temporary grouping >of all my queries. I save that grouping as a text file. Then I go back and >delete every query from the index itself to make absolutely they will not >find their way into the finished book. The text file of the queries can >then be sent to the author or production editor along with the index. Macrex allows you to precede an entry or query with a question mark, which is sorted separately. I use that function to group queries as I go along, and then do essentially what you do...print out that file separately. When I'm sending a paper copy, I also tag each query with pink slips (gummed editing slips, not Post-It notes, which have a tendency to disappear or reattach themselves where they don't belong). =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:09:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: designations for figures (was: RTF files are ASCII - here's a sample) At 09:53 AM 1/20/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >These are the kinds of questions I ask the production editor rather than >making a decision on my own that they may be unhappy with. Many of the >production editors I work with don't like the locator in itals, because in >some fonts it's very hard to tell that they're itals. My clients have been >asking me lately to use either (fig.) or (illus.). Godo point, Carol. I usually ask...and frequently, I get one of two responses. Either the editor hadn't considered the problem before and needs to check out the standard procedure, or he/she tells me to do whatever I think best. I prefer bold myself, to get around the problem of difficult-to-read italics in some fonts. But sometimes two different indicators are needed. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:09:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Malcolm Baldrige I am going to quote a personal message from an esteemed indexing colleague of mine who gives me permission to quote him: "As an indexer for American Soc for Quality Control periodicals,...the ASQC uses "Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award" as its controlled vocab. In books, we index under "M" with doublepost or cross ref from "B"." The ANSI/NISO indexing standards state as long as there is more than one form for the same name, there should preferably be a See reference to the correct form of the name: "Names of corporate bodies should be entered without transposition in the form most commonly used by the body itself. If more than one form is common, the fuller form should be used.... Cross-references should link different names for the same body and all possible forms of entry, including inverted forms." This whole discussion is an interesting one, since it brings up the whole concept of name authority control or rather consistency of names for the benefit of the user. I just wonder how the museums listed by Larry Baker are listed in the reference book, The World of Learning? I don't have access to that book right at the moment, but it would be interesting to know that. Another way to find out what is the official form of the name is to check the Library of Congress name authority file. I just did by looking up a few on OCLC's WorldCat, on a break from indexing a book on Amazon catfish (!), and found the following: Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award is an official subject heading of the Library of Congress and so is Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, in that order. With all due respect to the opinions that have been posted on this topic, I still feel that the standards are there to act as very steady guideposts and they should be checked first for suggestions on practice. Of course, there are always exceptions to rules and guidelines, but perhaps a stricter adherence to our own profession's standards should be de rigueur whenever possible. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:24:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: queries Sometimes I use the query feature of Macrex too, but more often I tag my query points in the index iself with a query string, "{~ ???~}", which I insert with Alt-X (a changed keyword). The tildes are to make the string stand out with the dark blue I use for tilde strings against a white screen background, the curly brackets (braces) are to enable me to insert queries after page refs without making the page refs unrecognizable as page refs, and the space is a spot for the cursor in order to make tag removal easy with two backspaces plus F6. Since it's easy to group all such queries together in Group mode, I don't need to use the the query feature for this purpose and can reserve it for preserving any headings I'm inclined to delete but might want to resurrect later on (or for writing notes to myself). Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:45:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Baldrige and Figures and Flow charts and Name spellings Thanks for all the input. I didn't think that Malcolm Baldrige would generate so much discussion. I'm going to index the full award name under both M and B. I don't think space is an issue. I'm particularly grateful for the input on the name spelling!!! One good result of this is that I'm checking all the names very carefully and found Russell L. Ackoff spelled as Russel L. Ackoff in the book. I checked the correct spelling on the WWW. My PE may not appreciate me finding these errors at this stage of the game but maybe it will get me a copyediting job!! But I'd rather index! As for indexing figures, I called my PE to see what their standard was for identifying illustrations in an index and she said no one had ever done that in an index before but she seemed interested. She didn't care whether I used (fig.) or italics (which most people on this list seemed to like). Since my primitive indexing program doesn't allow for italics (I could change them in the final version of the file), I decided to use (fig.). So now I've come across another question: The book (which as I've said, was poorly copyedited) uses both "flow chart" and "flowchart" and my two dictionaries, one technical and one regular do not agree. I know technical writing oftem makes up words or combines them but I thought I'd get a vote on the one-word or two-word version. Thanks again, Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:52:43 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Peter Rooney Subject: Wilson Award (long) Fellow Indexers, This is a copy of an email that I have sent to the ASI Chair of the Wilson Panel. As you may know, a Wilson Award was not given for 1996. My complaint is not about this. What I do object to is the failure of the Wilson Panel to acknowledge the individual submissions. This email refers to an exchange of letters that appeared in full in the Nov/Dec 1996 Keywords. * * * (copy follows) To: Marcia Carlson Date: Jan. 20, 1997 Chair, Wilson Panel mcarlson@shaysnet.com Copies to: INDEX-L list From: Peter Rooney magnetix@ix.netcom.com Your letter of reply to mine (both published in Nov/Dec 1996 Keywords) made some good points, but was not totally responsive to my concerns about the Wilson Award process. My biggest complaint (point #2 of my letter) is that ASI gives no official response to submitters. At the very least, a list of ALL names of submitters should be published, with a word of appreciation for their efforts. This notice would appear in an issue of Keywords coming out after the award (or nonaward) was made, as part of the report on the Annual Convention. Additionally, it would be really nice to send individual letters to each submitter, saying: "your index submission has been received; thank you for donating the book (if this is the case); no, you did not win, but thank you and please try again another year." If this letter were to be sent BEFORE the Annual Convention, a submitter might even make plans to attend. What I am asking for is simple courtesy. If I make a $50 contribution to a charitable organization, I get a letter of appreciation as a matter of course. A book that is submitted to the Wilson Award usually has economic value - it may even be fairly expensive - and this should be acknowledged. (By the way, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BOOKS?) As I pointed out in my letter, the individual indexer goes to considerable expense to submit an index (including a $20 submission fee), and I think ASI should reciprocate. ASI is not poor; its dues have become pricey; it should act like a grown-up organization. This is related to point #1 of my letter. I suggested that the judges' written evaluations be made available to the indexers so that indexers can learn and improve. You replied that the "Wilson award process is not a mentoring exercise". On the other hand, there is nothing in the Criteria for the award that forbids it from being, in small part, just that. To repeat my argument from above - since the submitters have gone to considerable time and expense in giving the judges materials to judge, it seems only fair to give them some feedback. It would be simple enough to slip into the above-mentioned letter of appreciation the written evaluation that the judges have already (I assume) prepared. This might be done only if the submitter requests it. This feedback might even benefit the award process, by attracting more submissions. You speak of the public statements that treat in some detail the strengths and weaknesses of the submissions in general, and claim that these fulfill the same educational purpose. To the contrary, I have found these to be platitudinous, simply because they ARE confined to generalities that are found in the Criteria for the award. Every index is unique - there are no general solutions - what is learned from the Wilson Award process is precisely the detail which a general statement cannot provide. You did suggest that honorable mentions might be reconsidered (replying to point #3 of my letter). Actually, I considered that the least significant of my suggestions. I do appreciate the effort you took to reply, and I hope our dialogue will be a beginning in opening up the process of the Wilson Award, and attracting strong submissions. If you don't mind, I plan to submit this letter to INDEX-L - it's a lively forum. Sincerely, Peter Rooney, 1/20/97 magnetix@ix.netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:37:09 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bingvmb.bitnet: host not found)] Message-ID: <32E41C15.225C@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:29:57 -0800 From: "Joel S. Berson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-WorldNet (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Indexer's Discussion Group Subject: Re: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bingvmb.bitnet: host not found) References: <970118175832.3.4239@mtigwc01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sonsie, I've had the same problem, and used the same workaround (sending to bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu instead). However, one would hope normally to be able to use "Reply" -- but that picks up the unusable bitnet address! Doe anyone have an answer to getting the bitnet address to work? (I've asked my Internet provider - ATT WorldNet - but it hasn't seen fit yet to respond.) Joel Sonsie wrote: > > At 12:20 PM 1/18/97 -0500, WordenDex@AOL.COM wrote: > > >AOL has consistently returned misc replies to Index-L via bitnet for the > >past week. > > The Bitnet address doesn't work at all for most people. Try this: > > index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu > > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:24:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bingvmb.bitnet: host not found)] List administrators have informed other lists that bitnet is no longer functional anywhere. Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:47:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: Malcolm Baldrige Award I looked up "Baldridge" and "Baldrige" as keywords in my local library's online catalog, and found that both Malcolm and Letitia Baldrige are indeed spelled without any D before the G. Here is a screenful of titles gleaned from the catalog: Your Search: Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award AUTHOR/TITLE DATE 1. United States. Congress. House. Committee on S 1992 The Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award : hearing before the 2. George, Stephen, 1948- 1992 The Baldrige quality system : the do-it-yourself way to transfor 3. United States. Congress. House. Committee on S 1992 Quality in education : report / 4. Hart, Christopher W. L. 1992 The Baldrige : what it is, how it's won, how to use it to improv 5. Brown, Mark Graham. 1993 Baldrige award winning quality : how to interpret the Malcolm Ba 6. United States. Congress. House. Committee on S 1993 The Malcolm Baldrige Quality Award : has it made a difference? : 7. Boyett, Joseph H., 1993 The quality journey : how winning the Baldrige sparked the remak ***** 13 Items UNSORTED - Page 1 - More on Next Screen ***** Enter an item number for more detail : Note that the award is also known as the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award (if this is the same thing -- I wouldn't think there would be two such awards), but is several times referred to in titles as the Baldrige award. Apparently the approved Library of Congress subject heading is this longer form of the name (which doesn't mean it's the greatest form to use in your index, of course). Hope this helps. Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:23:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: bingvmb.bitnet: host not found)] How can we get the index-l list server to send us its messages with the >From address as BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU instead of BINGVMB.BITNET ? So that we can use Reply directly. Joel Pam Rider wrote: > > List administrators have informed other lists that bitnet is no longer > functional anywhere. > Pam Rider > > Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth > > prider@powergrid.electriciti.com > prider@tsktsk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:28:07 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Storing software At 09:31 AM 1/16/97 -0800, you wrote: > For the software that doesn't come in the form of a book or whatever >that will go on my shelves, I use those boxes that you can buy to store >issues of magazines. (Don't know what they're called, but they're cardboard >and have a spot for a label.) > > Justine Carson Princeton files... Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:59:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Wilson Award Peter, I wanted to post to support your viewpoints regarding the Wilson Award. I have too have submitted a book for consideration for this award, a few years ago, and it was a year that no award was given. Instead of receiving acknowledgment of the submission, the total silence and then the non-award left me feeling as if my book was so bad that it wasworth neither recognition or award. The feeling of rejection was acute. It was, to say the least, an unpleasant experience. It seems to me that good taste dictates a response, at least an acknowledgment, on the part of the committee and/or ASI, and an announcement of the contenders and the winner. Awarding an award or a prize the the ASI Conference is nice, but there are other avenues of promotion and publicity, such as posting to Index-L, and the contenders do also deserve some recognition and a wee bit of professional publicity. I am not comfortable with how this process is run. It would be nice to know what deficiencies were found in my index, and who the competing indexers were. It would be nice to know who submits, even if I'm not a contender. And yes, whatever does happen to those books? Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:42:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: not using bingvmb.bitnet address >> On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:23:59 -0800, >> "Joel S. Berson" said: J> How can we get the index-l list server to send us its messages with the J> From address as BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU instead of BINGVMB.BITNET ? J> So that we can use Reply directly. Send the following to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu: set index-l IETFhdr -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 937-255-3688 A jury consists of twelve persons chosen to decide who is the better lawyer. --Robert Frost ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:49:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: Wilson Award In-Reply-To: JPerlman@AOL.COM "Re: Wilson Award" (Jan 20, 5:59pm) I am going to be the dissenting voice (so far) and say that the Wilson Award, for what it is and what it intends, is actually quite successful. I do agree that a list of those who submit indexes would be nice (sort of an acknowledgment to those who participate), but only because such a list is just this side of effortless. That this award exists at all, and that people are willing to judge the indexes -- a difficult task, I realize, when I know how hard it is to rate my own work -- is quite amazing. I am submitting an index this year, and here's what I gain from doing so: 1. The ability to go to my client and say, "This index is one of the best indexes I've written." And then stand behind this statement. 2. The possibility of having my work (and name) recognized by others in the field and industry. 3. Pride. To submit an index takes pride, not "nerve." In fact, if I lose, nobody ever has to know about it. 4. Friendly competition. Of course, if I win, I won't know what to shoot for next year! (Although nobody yet has won *two* Wilson Awards.... :-) There are already people out there, other indexers, who will critique my work or tutor me, and those people deserve the money (or equivalent) that they ask for to do so. The Wilson Award, to me, is really a treat, a brass ring. At the same time, it honors the profession. I like the idea of having a list of those who submitted indexes, though. And if it weren't a copyright violation (i.e., if permission could be received), I would also like having the winning indexes reproduced for my curiosity and education. But overall, I have no complaints. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@ora.com) "A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire "I hate quotations." --Ralph Waldo Emerson O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com WWW: http://www.ora.com/people/staff/seth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:22:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TRIP10@AOL.COM Subject: Hot Conference on Hot Topics... This message has been cross-posted to several lists. ____________________________________________ The National Federation of Abstracting and Information Services (NFAIS) has announced that its 1997 Annual Conference will be held February 23-26 at the Park Hyatt at the Bellevue Hotel (Walnut and Broad Streets, Philadelphia, PA). The theme is: Publishing in the New Millennium II MANAGING THE TRANSITION: Product Development & Marketing on the World Wide Web HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE: * Keynote addresses by: Dr. Toni Carbo, Robert Massie, Dr. Clifford Lynch, and Harry Collier * You won't want to miss this session... "LIBRARY CONSORTIA: Wheeling and Dealing Over Networked Information Access" * Live demos of New Primary and Secondary Information Services on the WEB!!! Plus so much more from key industry professionals and organizations!!! ______________________________ SPECIAL RATE FOR LIBRARIANS!!! $400 Academic Rate Full Conference Registration rates for NFAIS Members: $600, $770 for non-members For a copy of the program: http://www.pa.utulsa.edu/nfais.html Or, call NFAIS at 215-893-1561 to register today! Space and time are running out!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:28:31 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Presler Sign-off Index-L ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:53:23 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Wilson Award Peter and Janet, while I have never been nominated (nor have I nominated myself) for the Wilson Award, I'm really quite troubled by your report that no acknowledgment is sent to entrants and books are not returned. I've entered several photography contests and had my submissions returned. Granted, I enclosed an SASE or equivalent, but at least there was a mechanism. And in most cases I got at least a postcard stating that my submission had been received. Does anyone know the approximate number of entrants in a given year? I can't imagine it would be over 200, and probably much fewer. I can't believe ASI could not afford to send a simple note of acknowledgement and/or a "thanks but you did not win" note...perhaps even personalized with the name of the book you indexed, so you could be certain that it had been properly received and looked at. Finally, it's difficult enough for most of us to get sample copies of the books we index...and then to have to send our precious copy off for judging awards and NOT get it back, well, that's very annoying. If it's good enough to nominate for a Wilson, it's definitely the kind of book you would like to be able to show prospective clients, or return to now and again to admire your best work. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:53:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Baldrige and Figures and Flow charts and Name spellings At 03:45 PM 1/20/97 -0500, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: >So now I've come across another question: The book (which as I've said, >was poorly copyedited) uses both "flow chart" and "flowchart" and my two >dictionaries, one technical and one regular do not agree. I know >technical writing oftem makes up words or combines them but I thought I'd >get a vote on the one-word or two-word version. This is really, as you note, an editing problem and not an indexing problem. Depending on how you are sorting the index, flow chart and flowchart can be made to essentially occupy the same spot. I think letter-by-letter would separate them, with "flow chart" first, followed by several other entries, then "flowchart. Word-by-word would put them one right after the other. Ask the editor if he/she cares, and if there is no preference (and assuming that nobody is going to go back and correct the wrong one at this late stage), choose whichever is more commonly used in the book. Then see where it falls in your alphabetization style...the point being, that the user should find it where he or she would naturally look for it. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Indexer Services Listing Form Since several members of the list have had a question about where the Indexer Services Listing Form should be sent, I thought I would post the information here, in case there are others who also need the information. 1. You may return the form in the same reply envelope as the salary survey. 2. You may send the form directly to the ASI office: P.O. Box 48267, Seattle, WA 98148-0267 Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services Chair, ASI Indexer Services Committee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:58:11 UT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Sweeney Subject: Library of Congress subject headings Hi. I've been lurking on the list for awhile-just finished the last lesson of the USDA course and eager to get started indexing. I've appreciated the thoughtful dialogue on this list. I'm interested in information about indexing periodicals using Library of Congress subject headings. Is this common? I don't find any mention of this approach in the texts I've been using. Can you recommend publications covering this approach to indexing? Thanks in advance. Sharon Sweeney ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:31:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: not using bingvmb.bitnet address At 06:42 PM 1/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:23:59 -0800, >>> "Joel S. Berson" said: > >J> How can we get the index-l list server to send us its messages with the >J> From address as BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU instead of BINGVMB.BITNET ? >J> So that we can use Reply directly. > > Send the following to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu: > > set index-l IETFhdr I did that and now my REPLY key replies to the person who posted and not to the list. Dick Evans Richard (Dick) Evans Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 22:29:27 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rollie Littlewood Subject: Re: lousy reply-to address At 01:24 PM 1/20/97 -0800, someone on the list wrote: >List administrators have informed other lists that bitnet is no longer >functional anywhere. ... Obviously this statement is not true. It clearly works at SUNY-Binghamton! Charlotte *has been trying* (for quite some time, I believe) to convince her LISTSERV administrator to make this change, but has not been able to convince him or her to do so. Charlotte cannot make this change on her own. Rollie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:38:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Wilson Award All, I'm afraid I sounded very negative in my previous posting about the Wilson Award. If I did, it is because I'm not pleased with the process as it stands now. I would agree with Seth about motivation for sending in a submission. I too was proud of my work, thought it worthy, and therefore was anxious to see it in professional competition. And it is good that there is such an award. I am glad to see it in existence, and glad that the Wilson people and ASI put their efforts, and their dollars, behind it to keep it going. Such an award elevates that status of our profession, and adds professionalism. What we have to do is to work to perhaps create change, making others aware of our feelings as entrants into the competition, and hoping to affect change in the process by being vocal, as we are. I hope I didn't give the impression of "badmouthing" the Wilson award. Not my intention at all. I appreciate it, and the effort it takes to keep it going. I just wish that the process were done differently. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 01:11:48 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: W: Invalid RFC822 field - "0.120.45]) by nvsgi1.netvision.net.il (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03251 for E: "From:"/"Sender:" field is missing. From: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster Hi John: Here's their URL: http://www.phantech.com/html/inforecall_5.5_brochure.html You'll see they have some other products that may interest you. Let me know how it goes, and how you like the program. Best wishes, Harvey Kaniel hkan@netvision.net.il At 11:48 PM 01/19/97 +0000, John Presler wrote: >Hi Harvey, > >>There is a program called InfoRecall by Curtran Consulting >>in Toronto which many people have found useful for organizing >>notes, and information tidbits. Here is an excerpt from their >>opening Help screen. >> >>The program is shareware with a more-complete program available >>upon registration. >> > >You mentioned that the software is shareware. Is it available for download >off the Internet? If so, do you know the URL? > >Thanks, > >John Presler > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:56:03 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Index-L address In-Reply-To: <853797827.627660.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <853797827.627660.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com>, "Joel S. Berson" writes >How can we get the index-l list server to send us its messages with the >From address as BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU instead of BINGVMB.BITNET ? >So that we can use Reply directly. > >Joel > Yes, please!!! I always have to alter it. It's only a minor nuisance, but still. Charlotte - could you please try again?? Betty ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:37:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Wilson Award Here's another posting from another Wilson Award contestant: I submitted an index 2 years ago, when there was an award given. I was honored o hear (as I did at the conference) that the judges had a tough time deciding that year. Like Seth and Janet, I was proud to enter the competition. My experience was different from Janet's, however, as I did receive my book back (after the conference). In fact, I am pretty sure you can note on the application form whether you need your book back or not. Mine was a signed copy and I wasn't about to donate it. I also recall receiving notice of receipt of my application, as well as a form thank you note when I got my book back. I certainly would have appreciated more feedback. And the idea of publicly listing applicants, or even displaying the submissions, is appealing. Other publications contests that I know of (STC, in particular) make a habit of displaying all entries at their annual conferences. This is extremely useful and interesting to competition entrants and general conference goers alike. What do other publications contests do? Pilar L. Pilar Wyman Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:14:00 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Hamilton, Beth" Subject: FW: Wilson Award Pilar said: "Other publications contests that I know of (STC, in particular) make a habit of displaying all entries at their annual conferences. This is extremely useful and interesting to competition entrants and general conference goers alike." Just to clarify about the STC competition, Pilar, only the winners are displayed at the annual conference. I don't know what they do with nonwinners, but they don't return the entries to the submitter. I've been on STC's International Publications Competition committee a couple of times and helped set up the display 2 years ago in Washington, D.C. You're right, though, about how useful it is. It's great to see the entries that won awards. It's a good opportunity to see what others are doing and get ideas. I'm also very involved in the Florida Technical Communication Competition (the Florida STC chapters), and here's what we do: - Send an acknowledgement to all entrants (a simple postcard listing the entry) - Send a letter after the entries are judged that informs the submitter what award was given the entry or that the entry did not win an award. The judges comments about the entry are attached to this letter. - Display all winners at our annual competition awards banquet We state on the entry form that we do not return entries. If the entry wins a certain level of award, we have to send it on to the STC international competition (we have competitions for art, publications, and online information). We have returned entries when the submitter has called and asked for an exception, as long as we didn't have to send it on to international. After the awards reception, any entries that won awards but not a high enough award to go on to international are donated to local universities' technical communication programs (we require three copies of each entry, and we send one copy to the University of South Florida, the University of Central Florida, and Florida Institute of Technology). Hope this helps... Beth Hamilton elham@dbsoftware.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:44:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Wilson Award Thank you, Beth, for clarifying what some of the STC competitions do! --There are so many categories and levels of award in the competitions, I guess that's why I thought it was all the entrants, not just the winners that are displayed. A winners display does make more sense. I also noted receipts to entrants include judges' comments. And a little bell went off in my head as I remembered that *I* was a judge last year for the DC STC competition! [due to too many deadlines I declined participation this year]. The year before that I'd been an apprentice judge, in fact. In DC, the judges comments are on detailed forms. Every entry gets one for each judge (judges work in teams), and completed forms are submitted to entrants at the end of the competition. Filling the forms out carefully and thoroughly is highly stressed to all judges; this documentation is considered the most important part of the competition. Pilar L. Pilar Wyman Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:52:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marilyn Rowland Subject: Massachusetts Chapter, ASI, Macrex meeting, March 22, 1007 Massachusetts Society of Indexers Gale Rhoades / Macrex Indexing Software and Specific Indexing Techniques Saturday, March 22, 1997 11:30 a.m. to 3 p.m. Waltham Public Library, The Lecture Hall 735 Main Street, Waltham, Massachusetts The Massachusetts Society of Indexers is pleased to present the second in a series of programs demonstrating software for indexing. Gale Rhoades will discuss Macrex, one of the high-end software packages used by indexers around the world. Rhoades, who is Director of Macrex Sales and Support for North America, will describe and demonstrate the basics of using Macrex, as well as its advanced features. Among the topics she'll cover are: how to deal with multivolume works, the use of macros to save time and keystrokes, and some computer tricks that make an indexer's work life easier. When she's not wearing her Macrex hat, Rhoades is a database programmer, computer troubleshooter and as some of you know an occasional contributor to Index-L. There will be no lunch break, so make sure you've eaten before you come. There will be a meter break, however, since the library's meters have a two-hour limit. There is also on-street parking available on Spring and Exchange streets. DIRECTIONS: The Waltham Public Library is conveniently located on the north side of Main Street, one block west of the Common between Spring and Exchange streets. This location is handicapped accessible. >From the east: Take Route 20 (Main Street) west. One block past the Common turn right onto Spring Street. The entrance to the library parking lot (which is metered) will be on your left. >From the west: Take Route 20 (Main Street) east, go past Exchange Street (which is one-way going the wrong way), then take the next left, Spring Street. The entrance to the library parking lot (which is metered) will be on your left. If you're planning on attending, PLEASE notify Diane Benison at dbenison@compuserve.com This will allow us to have the appropriate number of chairs, and more importantly, notify you in the event of bad weather or other unforeseen events. * For more information on the March meeting or on the Massachusetts Society of Indexers, call Diane Benison at 508-393-3447 (E-mail: dbenison@compuserve.com). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:57:34 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: the bitnet problem Has anyone tried unsubbing and then resubscribing to the functioning address? I know that when I use a simple "reply," I always get the bitnet address in the "to" field. But I wonder if that's because when I initally subscribed, the bitnet address was working and was the one I used. My own workaround is to store the correct address as a nickname for Index-L (I use Eudora) and then use "reply to" rather than "reply." In other mail systems I've used, there were ways to create address books and then forward replies to addresses you specify. Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:14:26 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 19 Jan 1997 to 20 Jan 1997 >Subject: Re: Wilson Award > >Peter and Janet, while I have never been nominated (nor have I nominated >myself) for the Wilson Award, I'm really quite troubled by your report that >no acknowledgment is sent to entrants and books are not returned. Sonsie, if I remember correctly, they received about 40 books last year. In the past, I have requested the book be returned, and it was. Once I received an acknowledgment and once I didn't. > >Finally, it's difficult enough for most of us to get sample copies of the >books we index...and then to have to send our precious copy off for judging >awards and NOT get it back, well, that's very annoying. If it's good enough >to nominate for a Wilson, it's definitely the kind of book you would like to >be able to show prospective clients, or return to now and again to admire >your best work. The year that I submitted on my own initiative, I requested an extra copy from my production editor, telling her what it was for, of course. No problem. Another year, the publisher submitted a book I'd indexed. And then wondered why no book was chosen that year, I might add. Try explaining that one to a client who thought your index was fabulous and who later submitted the book for several other awards and won three. (grumble, grumble, grin) Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:07:56 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Wilson Award Seth A. Maislin wrote: >The Wilson Award, to me, is really a treat, a brass >ring. For me, it's more of a crapshoot than a brass ring. I found the comments about what was wrong with the indexes submitted far too vague to be of use. It would have been helpful to have seen excerpts from these indexes (without the indexer or book named) as illustrations of the various flaws found. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:37:21 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: Re: the bitnet problem I originally subscribed to the non-bitnet address but I still get it in the "to" field. I also use a nickname-type approach. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ------------- Original Text From: Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com (Carol Roberts), on 1/21/97 11:57 AM: Has anyone tried unsubbing and then resubscribing to the functioning address? I know that when I use a simple "reply," I always get the bitnet address in the "to" field. But I wonder if that's because when I initally subscribed, the bitnet address was working and was the one I used. My own workaround is to store the correct address as a nickname for Index-L (I use Eudora) and then use "reply to" rather than "reply." In other mail systems I've used, there were ways to create address books and then forward replies to addresses you specify. Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:07:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown <104571.560@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Switchboxes This is a bit late for the subject, however... I found two bidirectional switchboxes that are available through a mail order source. The 2 position switch is $34.95, and the 4 position switch is $49.95. They are available through Lyben, which is at (800) 493-5777. The text in the catalog doesn't address the problem of spikes, however, both have automatic soft switching through a small TSR program. They also claim the switches are W95 compatible. Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:49:05 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" <104146.1652@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Wilson Award Just a comment on what Carol Roberts said about the Wilson award: >For me, it's more of a crapshoot than a brass ring. Same is true for the STC competition. Most judges are conscientious and thorough and provide useful feedback. Unfortunately, in some cases the comments on the evaluation forms are worse than useless. Also, I've often gotten completely contradictory comments from a group of judges. The judges are volunteering their time, of course, and they are to be commended for that. However, I've seen enough poorly prepared evaluations to make me hesitant about submitting entries in the future (as well as making me a bit suspicious of the value of the awards I have received). Just my 2 cents's worth. YMMV. John Sullivan Documentation Manager Concentric Data Systems Westborough MA jsulliva@walldata.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:45:27 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rollie Littlewood Subject: some trivial and virtually useless information about Bitnet At 01:24 PM 1/20/97 -0800, someone on the list wrote: >List administrators have informed other lists that bitnet is no longer >functional anywhere. ... A decade ago virtually all email used Bitnet or some near relative, at least in academic institutions. During the transition to where so much email now goes via internet, many of us in academic institutions could use either route--I had a choice for, I would guess, about six years. Now Bitnet is fading rapidly, but is *not* dead. At my institution, the ability to send to Bitnet addresses was turned off at the beginning of 1996, as I recall. (I can still receive email sent to my former Bitnet address, however.) As I said earlier, clearly Bitnet is still alive and kicking at the institution which hosts INDEX-L. I got curious as to how many list members are still using Bitnet addresses, so I examined the list of subscribers. Of the 841 non-concealed list members, 23 currently use Bitnet addresses. Two bits of even more trivial and probably useless information are that 121 have their INDEX-L messages sent to AOL addresses and that 14 conceal their names and email addresses. The fact that some list members have Bitnet addresses should not be a reason for the list to still be using a Bitnet Reply-to: address. I can only conclude that inertia is the only reason for that. The person responsible for this situation *appears* to be reachable at mailman@BINGVMB.CC.BINGHAMTON.EDU. Rollie