Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:48:08 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9702B" To: Julius Ariail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 00:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Saving computer files Janet, I only work part time, and part of my business is editing, so I don't have anywhere near the number of files you do. But, I keep diskettes with all the indexes I've done since my second year of business. And I have been asked to index new editions, so I have used the old files. I do not keep any hard copies, and label the diskettes with the inclusive dates, (ie., indexes 1/97-6/97) I haven't gotten more specific than that just because I don't have tons of completed indexes, but hopefully as I expand I'll regret that I wasn't more specific. (Not that I'm hoping for the regret, just the expansion;D) Leslie LLF Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 04:55:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Saving computer files Like Leslie, I don't do nearly as many indexes per year as Janet, but still over the past few years they have mounted up a bit. I once had a big clear-out and rashly deleted all my old index files, and now regret it, as I don't keep hard copy - I haven't the storage space (and only rarely get complimentary copies of books I have indexed from publishers). Not only have I occasionally been asked to update an index for a new edition, or do an index to a book in the same series, but I sometimes want to refer to an old index to see how I tackled a particular problem, or how many entries it contained, etc. My policy now (since getting a new PC and faced with transferring files from the old to the new) is to delete all my Macrex files except the final .MBK (backup) file, which takes up comparatively little space. If necessary I can then recreate the index from the .MBK file. I also keep a word processor file of each index, although perhaps this is not really necessary. Old files are on floppy disks and more recent ones will be transferred to floppies when I get around to it! Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 05:36:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: Proposals and Contracts The recent thread on late payers brings to mind a question. I'm currently writing proposals for 2 cataloging jobs (unfortunately, not indexing or proofreading, but they would pay). Does anyone have references they use when writing proposals and contracts? I do have the ASI publication "Running Your Indexing Business" which includes an article by Victoria Agee on Government Contracts. Does anyone have additional titles of books or articles that would be helpful during this process? Thanks, in advance, for your suggestions. If I get enough resposne, I'll post the results. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:24:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Proposal writing Willa, Since your focus seems to be library cataloging, you might want to look at: Getting Your Grant, by Linda Crowe and Peggy Barber, a book in the How-to-Do-It Manuals for Librarians series, published by Neal-Schuman (ISBN 1-55570-038-1). ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:38:43 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Author's opinions In-Reply-To: <199702070501.XAA13169@mixcom.mixcom.com> >I'm working on a book on the internation liberal order and am now in a >section titled "Hegemony." The author has been discussing several means of >approaching this concept. Then he has about 1 1/2 pages of discussion of how >his approach to the topic differs from another author, Cox. > >Would it be appropriate to include this entry: > >Hegemony > author's interpretation Here's how I usually handle this situation (I'll add some arbitrary page numbers): Hegemony, 10-15 Cox on, 11-13 I should think it's a given that everything else on the subject *is* the author's view, so I don't identify pages that contain the author's opinions. If I had to, however, I would identify the author by name: Hegemony, 10-15 Cox vs. Roberts on, 11-13 Cheers, Carol ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:08:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Proposals and Contracts In a message dated 97-02-08 06:44:34 EST, Willa writes: > Does anyone have references they use when writing proposals and > contracts? Willa, I have a book, but I can't recommend it because I've never used it. But the title sounded good to me: _Writing Winning Business Proposals_ by Richard C. Freed, Shervin Freed, Joe Romano. McGraw-Hill Inc., 1995. ISBN 0-07-021925-7 (paperback), 267 pages. Peg Mauer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:39:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marjanovic Mirjana Subject: indexing government publications Hello indexers, is there anyone working on indexing government publications (standards, guidelines, laws) or has information about these subjects? We are doing a research project on indexing standards for the Quebec Transportation Department (road construction and maintenance) and would appreciate any suggestion. For now, we couldn't find any government institution that does or has indexed that type of documents, and as far as we know, books about indexing just don't discuss that matter in detail. Thanks a lot. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Mirjana Marjanovic - (Martic) marjanom@ere.Umontreal.ca LA VIE EST BELLE -- ZIVOT JE LEP (IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT THAT WAY) M2 - Ecole d e bibliotheconomie et des sciences de l'information Universite de Montreal :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 17:34:47 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: indexing government publications In-Reply-To: Hi, I don't know of any books or articles discussing this specific type of indexing, but you might check to see if the folks involved in maintaining the IRRD (International Road Research Documentation) database have created any guidelines for their indexers. As I recall they use both keyword and a controlled vocabulary/thesaurus. The database itself is tri-lingual (French, English and German). This will be at the level of "open systems" (database) indexing, rather than "closed systems" indexing (back-of-the-book), but maybe they could point you in the right direction for other sources. The Transportation Association of Canada is the Canadian representative for IRRD, via OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development). TAC sould be able to tell you how to get in touch with IIRD. The e-mail address for TAC is tis@tac-act.ca They also have a WWW site, but I can't remember the URL. Hope this helps, Susie Stephenson SLAIS/UBC Vancouver mss@unixg.ubc.ca On Sat, 8 Feb 1997, Marjanovic Mirjana wrote: > Hello indexers, > > is there anyone working on indexing government publications > (standards, guidelines, laws) or has information about these subjects? We > are doing a research project on indexing standards for the Quebec > Transportation Department (road construction and maintenance) and would > appreciate any suggestion. For now, we couldn't find any government > institution that does or has indexed that type of documents, and as far as > we know, books about indexing just don't discuss that matter in detail. > > Thanks a lot. > > > :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) > Mirjana Marjanovic - (Martic) > marjanom@ere.Umontreal.ca > LA VIE EST BELLE -- ZIVOT JE LEP > (IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT THAT WAY) M2 - Ecole de bibliotheconomie et > des sciences de l'information Universite de Montreal :D :D :D :D :D :D :D > :D :D :D :D :D > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:39:09 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jon and Glenda Subject: Re: INDEX-L Digest - 6 Feb 1997 to 7 Feb 1997 > Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:30:20 -0500 > From: JPerlman@AOL.COM > Subject: Saving computer files > > What is everybody's current practice re saving the computer files of > completed indexes. Last year I saved all that material on diskettes, > considering them business records, and archiving the diskettes with my print > materials in files. For a going business with 50-100 indexes a year, that > got overwhelming. > > I'm wondering if that's really necessary. It would be less cumbersome to > save the files for a period of time until the book is in print -- arbitrarily > 4 months, say -- and then just reformat the file, deleting the old index. > > What say you all? > > Janet Perlman > Southwest Indexing I would agree with others and say keep everything. Storage is relatively cheap and indexes are not big items. If you really can't bear all those diskettes sitting around, you have three options: backup to tape, Jaz or Zip drives, etc (cheap but can be risky), get them written on to CD-ROM (safer but more expensive) or hire some storage space on the Internet. And who knows - in a hundred years' time some cyber-wired research student might be looking for historical records to find out about how people actually _did_ indexing back then. Jonathan. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:57:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: Saving computer files Janet Perlman wrote: >What is everybody's current practice re saving the computer files of >completed indexes. Last year I saved all that material on diskettes, >considering them business records, and archiving the diskettes with my print >materials in files. For a going business with 50-100 indexes a year, that >got overwhelming. I keep computer files of all my indexes. I learned the wisdom of this after a publisher got back to me a year after I had finished a series of books that it then decided should have a compilation of the indexes. I had housecleaned six months after the end of the project and had to rekey everything.(Scanning is possible now, but I have worked on very messy scanned indexes). So now I keep the computer file, the hard copy, and my copy of the published book (I have these for most indexes as it is part of the contractual agreement; since there are often discrepancies between my final copy and the published index, this is important). This also helps for revised indexes. I keep the diskettes labelled by publisher & project and note the file names on the hard copy. Since there is often repeat business for a particular publisher, and indexes are not all that long, this is fairly space efficient -- many indexes will fit on one disk. So far the system has worked well, though I admit to throwing out the paper copies of very ancient indexes when housekeeping. Christine ************************************************************************* Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Documentation and Library Systems John Abbott College P.O. Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC H9X 3L9 of:(514) 457-6610, loc.470; fax: (514) 457-4730 ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:19:38 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: indexing government publications You wrote: > >Hello indexers, > > is there anyone working on indexing government publications >(standards, guidelines, laws) or has information about these subjects? We >are doing a research project on indexing standards for the Quebec >Transportation Department (road construction and maintenance) and would >appreciate any suggestion. For now, we couldn't find any government >institution that does or has indexed that type of documents, and as far as >we know, books about indexing just don't discuss that matter in detail. > > Thanks a lot. > > >:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) >Mirjana Marjanovic - (Martic) >marjanom@ere.Umontreal.ca > LA VIE EST BELLE -- ZIVOT JE LEP > (IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT THAT WAY) M2 - Ecole de bibliotheconomie et >des sciences de l'information Universite de Montreal :D :D :D :D :D :D :D >:D :D :D :D :D > The one U.S. agency I can think of that does index it's own books and documents would be NASA (Nat'l Aeronautics and Space Administration). Another organization (AIAA) used to do database indexing of many of NASA's papers but have recently dropped the arrangement. NASA does have its own thesaurus online (I beleive ASI's web site has a link to it). There are a lot of NASA web sites that include search engines and database searching capabilities. I don't know if this is what you're looking for but I hope it might help. Linda Sloan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:32:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: indexing government publications Linda wrote: > >Another organization (AIAA) used to do database indexing of many of >NASA's papers but have recently dropped the arrangement. NASA does have >its own thesaurus online (I beleive ASI's web site has a link to it). >There are a lot of NASA web sites that include search engines and >database searching capabilities. I don't know if this is what you're >looking for but I hope it might help. Linda, I did some work for Herner about 2 years ago on either this same or similar NASA project. It was the best run data base A&I program I've had the opportunity to work on, and I can assure you I've worked on some that bordered on the joke level (these were commercial products put out by private companies). A possible contact at Herner (in the DC area) for info on indexing government publications is Marianne Mooerman (sp?) Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:09:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: saving index files Janet wrote: >> What is everybody's current practice re saving the computer files of >> completed indexes. Last year I saved all that material on diskettes, >> considering them business records, and archiving the diskettes with my >print materials in files. For a going business with 50-100 indexes a year, that >> got overwhelming. I save both Macrex MBK files and Wordperfect files on floppy disks sorted by client (with some disks called miscellaneous for indexes I do for authors or other one-shot deals). (I don't keep hard copies or Macrex index files.) I'm very, very glad I've done this, for several reasons. I often do indexes for subsequent editions of books I've indexed before. Sometimes the changes are slight enough that I can load the MBK file, put it in page number order (all very easy to do in Macrex) and change page numbers around--or else make a file of headings with no page references (also easy) so that I have my headings already. If the changes between editions are more extensive I just use the old index for guidance, but I always find it extremely helpful. Also, I've started writing and gone back to teaching indexing this year. I use my old indexes as sources of examples and illustrations of points I'm making. Right now I'm planning a workshop on the process of indexing (for the South Central chapter in March); I'm going back to look at old indexes and figure out exactly how I go about choosing entries and analyzing the text. It's a very rich source of material! And of course, the book for which I most need my index file is the one I forgot to save...! Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:53:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dick Luxner Subject: Internet Phone Charges --=====================_855532545==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello everyone, I thought you-all might want to follow up on the attached message! --=====================_855532545==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: FW: RBOC charging for local Internet access From: Dave Cantera I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the operation of the telephone network. It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 1997. Send your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you think. Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just under the wire for litigation. Let everyone you know about this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of. isp@fcc.gov Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all our voices may be heard! ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous impatience." --Admiral Hyman G. Rickover "It's only in retrospect that we are able to determine who is a visionary and who is an idiot" -- Chuck Tomasi, 1995 David Cantera Internet Access Consortium, Inc dcantera@iacnet.net From: Dave Cantera --=====================_855532545==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" __________________________________________________ Dick Luxner, MLS - Development Research Consultant PO Box 277 - Stow, Massachusetts 01775 508-562-1288 - dluxner@ma.ultranet.com Member APRA NEDRA ASIS SLA ASI ALA NENON __________________________________________________ Neither can his mind be thought to be in tune, Whose words do jarre; Nor his reason in frame, Whose sentence is preposterous. - Ben Jonson --=====================_855532545==_-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 15:24:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: Internet Phone Charges In-Reply-To: <199702092053.PAA03213@cinna.ultra.net> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --=====================_855532545==_ Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: Hi, I *think* the FCC "threat" below is a hoax. It has appeared (in several versions) on different lists over the last few months. It appears to be joining the "Nieman Marcus Cookie" and "Good Times Virus" in the "Internet Urban Legend" category. Does anybody else know more? Susie Stephenson mss@unixg.ubc.ca On Sun, 9 Feb 1997, Dick Luxner wrote: > Hello everyone, > I thought you-all might want to follow up on the attached message! > --=====================_855532545==_ Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: Content-Description: Subject: FW: RBOC charging for local Internet access From: Dave Cantera I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the operation of the telephone network. It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 1997. Send your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you think. Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just under the wire for litigation. Let everyone you know about this one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of. isp@fcc.gov Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all our voices may be heard! ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous impatience." --Admiral Hyman G. Rickover "It's only in retrospect that we are able to determine who is a visionary and who is an idiot" -- Chuck Tomasi, 1995 David Cantera Internet Access Consortium, Inc dcantera@iacnet.net From: Dave Cantera --=====================_855532545==_ Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: Content-Description: __________________________________________________ Dick Luxner, MLS - Development Research Consultant PO Box 277 - Stow, Massachusetts 01775 508-562-1288 - dluxner@ma.ultranet.com Member APRA NEDRA ASIS SLA ASI ALA NENON __________________________________________________ Neither can his mind be thought to be in tune, Whose words do jarre; Nor his reason in frame, Whose sentence is preposterous. - Ben Jonson --=====================_855532545==_-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 23:18:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dick Luxner Subject: Re: Internet Phone Charges Judy & Everyone, Here is a message which might help verify my initial message: >Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:47 (CST) >From: Michael Marek >Cc: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: RBOC charging for local internet access > ...Government agencies have been known to put an information site on > the web--not mentioned in the message we received--and to accept official > comments only via snailmail. Also, I don't know of any way my phone > company can tell which of my calls are for internet use. As I said, > I could be wrong, but I suggest we seek some confirmation before starting > to bombard the mailserver at the FCC. I have heard this Rule-Making > Petition discussed on National Public Radio. Here is the reply I got > from the FCC: >Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 15:40 >From: ISP >To: mmarek@sunflowr.usd.edu >Subject: Internet Service Providers - Reply > >This is an automated response to the message you sent to ISP@fcc.gov. >Thanks for taking the time to write. We have established this mailbox >for informal comments about usage of the public switched telephone >network by Internet access and information service providers. More >information on this subject is available at >We appreciate your input. This mailbox is the FCC point of contact for >informal e-mail comments on this proceeding, so you do not need to send >copies of your message to FCC staff. > >Look for more features and announcements on our Web site, >, in the future! >I believe this is a legitimate FCC site. >Mike Marek, University of South Dakota Foundation Dick __________________________________________________ Dick Luxner, MLS - Development Research Consultant PO Box 277 - Stow, Massachusetts 01775 508-562-1288 - dluxner@ma.ultranet.com Member APRA NEDRA ASIS SLA ASI ALA NENON __________________________________________________ Neither can his mind be thought to be in tune, Whose words do jarre; Nor his reason in frame, Whose sentence is preposterous. - Ben Jonson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 00:19:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: Per Minute charges on phone lines filed with the FCC All--my Internet Provider sent me the following message. I read the Reuter's article, and I sent a message to the FCC site. [btw, The phone companies have been looking for a way to find someone else to pay for the digitization of the system (which will profit them enormously) since the early 1970s, when it became clear it would happen.] >Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:51:14 -0800 (PST) >From: MCN Business Manager >To: vbaker >Subject: Per Minute charges on phone lines filed with the FCC > >The FCC is currently reviewing a matter which may directly effect you, >an MCN customer and Internet user. I'm forwarding you the following >message for your information. You may also wish to read the Reuters >news article at: > > http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,7723,4000.html?latest > > >"Hi from Tim (Badge) on IRC Cops I am writing you this to inform you >of a very important matter currently under review by the FCC. Your local >telephone company has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per >minute charges for your internet service. They contend that your usage >has or will hinder the operation of the telephone network. It is our belief >that internet usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional >per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments, >responses must be received by February 13, 1997. Send your comments >to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you think. Every phone company is in >on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just under the wire for >litiagation." > >Please send email to the following address clearly stating your opinion >about this issue: > > >isp@fcc.gov > > >Rennie Innis >MCN Business Manager > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janice Grosshans Subject: Re: Internet Phone Charges I have noticed on the Sprint commercials that the microscopic print that flashes on the bottom of the screen says that internet calls will be charged at a different rate. I wondered how long it would be before everyone else jumped on board. Does this mean that someone is able to tell if I'm having a verbal conversation or sending a fax or calling the internet from my home phone? Is it the phone number I call or is there an indicator on the line that signals that I am sending data vs. verbal information? TIA for your expertise. Janice jmg@kodak.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:30:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Per Minute charges on phone lines filed with the FCC Folks, I don't think this is a hoax. First of all, I read about it in my local newspaper months ago when the phone companies began making threatening noises in this direction. Plus, my mother saw TV news stories where the phone companies were attributing the frequent busy signals (circuits loaded signals?) some folks are getting to heavy online usage and that it would cost them huge amounts of money to upgrade the system. (I think this tidbit was a subtle complaint on her part about how folks like hubby and me are creating problems for everyone else by tying up the phone lines for hours and hours.) Anyway, the following is excerpted from the latest issue of "Seidman's Online Insider", an email newsletter owned by NetGuide Magazine, which I also happen to subscribe to. (Someone here posted something about it a few weeks ago, BTW, and I subscribed to the newsletter as a result. Thanks for the info, whoever you were. ;-D) Copyright and subscribing info is included. > ============================================================================= > Seidman's Online Insider - Vol. 4, Issue 6 > Brought to you by NetGuide Magazine< http://www.netguide.com > > ============================================================================ > = > > Copyright (C) 1997 Robert Seidman and CMP Media Inc. All rights reserved. > May be reproduced in any medium for noncommercial purposes as long as > attribution is given. ANOTHER FCC SCARE? A lot of people are sending out e-mail encouraging you > to write the FCC or risk paying BY THE MINUTE access charges against your > Internet. Indeed some local telephone companies have proposed such a > scheme and the FCC is considering it. The phone companies say that > Internet access is putting a strain on their networks and they should be > able to charge fees to support building better local networks to support > increased usage. Perhaps, but I don't worry that the FCC will approve > such a scheme. In spite of the fact the Internet access is gaining in > popularity, it is not yet mainstream and I don't believe the FCC will do > anything in the near term that could hinder growth. Further, there's the > not so small problem (at least when it comes down to the FCC evaluating > the proposal) of the local phone companies adding to their own problem by > offering unlimited Internet service. You can send your thoughts to the > FCC directly at isp@fcc.gov . The FCC is expected to rule on the proposal > sometime later this year. >To subscribe to this newsletter by e-mail: >Send an e-mail message to LISTSERV@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM and in the >BODY of the message type: >SUBSCRIBE ONLINE-L FIRSTNAME LASTNAME >Example: Subscribe Online-L Robert Seidman So, this looks like yet another attempt by some businesses to get Big Brother to coerce everyone into paying their basic business expenses. After all, they've been working on converting to fiber optic cables for years to increase capacity and they're just jumping on this as an excuse to get us to pay for their capital improvements, IMHO. (I'm still fuming about the fact that American pasta makers got the government to impose tariffs on the much cheaper imported Italian pasta, rather than just compete like big boys and girls.) Stepping off of soapbox now... Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:57:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tom McBroom Subject: Indexing magazines - general question I have a potential job indexing a bi-monthly magazine whose focus is engineering, particularly computuer aided engineering. Does anyone have input they could share as to the best way to approach this? Any reference books on indexing periodicals that you could recommend? Thanks very much, Tom McBroom tommc@ici.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:03:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Re: Saving computer files In-Reply-To: <199702080231.SAA12956@mx3.u.washington.edu> I don't have anywhere near your volume, Janet, but do tend to hang onto past indexes, simply because I do a lot of journal indexes and often refer to last year's index in doing the next one. Also, for existing clients, I tend to model subsequent indexes on a previous one for that client for formatting, etc. My current solution is to store all indexes on a Zip disk, with different directories for each client. I've copied over all the files saved on floppies (thus freeing up a bunch of disks for sending files to clients!). I have every index I've done since 1992 on a single disk, and still have enough free space for several years to come. I keep indexes in process on my hard drive, and move them to the Zip disk as soon as the check clears the bank. I acquired the Zip drive for my previous computer--540 mb hard drive-- when it was dangerously low on free space. Now that I'm rattling around on a new Pentium Pro with a 2.1 gig hard drive, storage space is not an issue; but it still makes sense to me to keep archived files in remote storage and reserve the hard drive - which WILL fill up eventually - for current stuff. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA. phone: 206/930-4348 email: cweaver@u.washington.edu CGWeaver@aol.com On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > What is everybody's current practice re saving the computer files of > completed indexes. Last year I saved all that material on diskettes, > considering them business records, and archiving the diskettes with my print > materials in files. For a going business with 50-100 indexes a year, that > got overwhelming. > > I'm wondering if that's really necessary. It would be less cumbersome to > save the files for a period of time until the book is in print -- arbitrarily > 4 months, say -- and then just reformat the file, deleting the old index. > > What say you all? > > Janet Perlman > Southwest Indexing > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:16:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Saving computer files One thing to consider for those saving their indexes on floppy disks is these have a relatively limited life expectancy, or so I believe I've read [any computer studs/studdettes who can elaborate?], on the order of several years. I keep mine on my hard drive _and_ on backup disks, and I plan to get a more secure and long-lasting storage form like a Zip drive to back up with. Given that it may be 2-3 years before a new edition of an earlier project comes out, this may be a consideration. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:16:34 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: Per Minute charges on phone lines filed with the FCC In-Reply-To: <970210103000_137576438@emout07.mail.aol.com> Thanks for the messages. It appears I'm wrong (not even the first time today) about the FCC and internet charging joining the "urban legend" hoax file. As I recall the discssions I've seen on other lists indicated that while it's true the FCC is looking at the idea of different charges for internet access (especially ISDN lines), they haven't actually put forth any direct proposals yet. As well, on some of the other lists the "alert" messages have had a decided "conspiracy/BiG Brother" tone -- which wasn't the case here. Happily for those of us up here in Canada none of this will have a direct impact in any case -- at least until the equivalent Canadian government agencies pick up the same idea. So far we haven't had much problem (at least here in Vancouver) with busy signals -- AOL Canada (for example) is a completely different system than the US equivalent. What does seem to be in the news today is the cable TV/telephone company argument over both internet and TV service competition/provisions. Cheers, Susie Stephenson On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 Wildefire@aol.com wrote: > Folks, > > I don't think this is a hoax. First of all, I read about it in my local > newspaper months ago when the phone companies began making threatening noises > in this direction. Plus, my mother saw TV news stories where the phone > companies were attributing the frequent busy signals (circuits loaded > signals?) some folks are getting to heavy online usage and that it would > cost them huge amounts of money to upgrade the system. > (I think this tidbit was a subtle complaint on her part about how folks like > hubby and me are creating problems for everyone else by tying up the phone > lines for hours and hours.) Anyway, the following is excerpted from the > latest issue of "Seidman's Online Insider", an email newsletter owned by > NetGuide Magazine, which I also happen to subscribe to. (Someone here posted > something about it a few weeks ago, BTW, and I subscribed to the newsletter > as a result. Thanks for the info, whoever you were. ;-D) Copyright and > subscribing info is included. > > > > ============================================================================== > > > Seidman's Online Insider - Vol. 4, Issue 6 > > Brought to you by NetGuide Magazine< http://www.netguide.com > > > > > ============================================================================= > > = > > > > Copyright (C) 1997 Robert Seidman and CMP Media Inc. All rights reserved. > > May be reproduced in any medium for noncommercial purposes as long as > > attribution is given. > > > > ANOTHER FCC SCARE? A lot of people are sending out e-mail encouraging you > > to write the FCC or risk paying BY THE MINUTE access charges against your > > Internet. Indeed some local telephone companies have proposed such a > > scheme and the FCC is considering it. The phone companies say that > > Internet access is putting a strain on their networks and they should be > > able to charge fees to support building better local networks to support > > increased usage. Perhaps, but I don't worry that the FCC will approve > > such a scheme. In spite of the fact the Internet access is gaining in > > popularity, it is not yet mainstream and I don't believe the FCC will do > > anything in the near term that could hinder growth. Further, there's the > > not so small problem (at least when it comes down to the FCC evaluating > > the proposal) of the local phone companies adding to their own problem by > > offering unlimited Internet service. You can send your thoughts to the > > FCC directly at isp@fcc.gov . The FCC is expected to rule on the proposal > > sometime later this year. > > > > >To subscribe to this newsletter by e-mail: > > >Send an e-mail message to LISTSERV@PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM and in the > >BODY of the message type: > > >SUBSCRIBE ONLINE-L FIRSTNAME LASTNAME > > >Example: Subscribe Online-L Robert Seidman > > So, this looks like yet another attempt by some businesses to get Big Brother > to coerce everyone into paying their basic business expenses. After all, > they've been working on converting to fiber optic cables for years to > increase capacity and they're just jumping on this as an excuse to get us to > pay for their capital improvements, IMHO. (I'm still fuming about the fact > that American pasta makers got the government to impose tariffs on the much > cheaper imported Italian pasta, rather than just compete like big boys and > girls.) Stepping off of soapbox now... > > Lynn Moncrief > TECHindex & Docs > Technical and Scientific Indexing > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:21:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Saving computer files/Naming files Thank you all who responded to my query re saving computer files. I recently acquired a Zip drive, which is as yet uninstalled. That sounds like the way to go. One of the reasons I was thinking of not saving files as the sheer bulk of the floppy disks. The compressed format of the Zip drive is less unwieldy. I've not done a revision in all my years of indexing, so I don't know how relevant that is. However, it is true that I pattern certain series indexes similarly, and do often want to look back at indexes I've created in order to see how I solved a particular problem. That does make a case for saving .mbk files and the word processing doc. Which all brings to mind another question. I don't have an organized file nomenclature system. Do you have special schemes for naming the computer files? Do you keep a log to know which is which index, etc? Do you annotate the file itself? How do you all handle this? If you work in a given field long enough, there are just so many variations on a theme in terms of file nomenclature, and then months and/or years down the line it isn't clear which file is which. I'd appreciate feedback on this. Thank you in advance, Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:03:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Sumaria Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Saving computer files/Naming files (Reply is LONG) >> On Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:21:53 -0500 (EST), >> JPerlman@aol.com said: J> Which all brings to mind another question. I don't have an organized file J> nomenclature system. Do you have special schemes for naming the computer J> files? Do you keep a log to know which is which index, etc? Do you J> annotate the file itself? How do you all handle this? If you work in a J> given field long enough, there are just so many variations on a theme in J> terms of file nomenclature, and then months and/or years down the line it J> isn't clear which file is which. I'd appreciate feedback on this. I found a response to this problem which looks pretty nifty. If you have a Web browser, try the FAQ page listed here: http://ivory.lm.com/~mundie/DDHC/CyberDewey.html For those of you who don't have a browser handy, the text is included below. My apologies to those who dislike long postings; I think that this approach is very promising, and I'm strongly considering it for my own files. FWIW, I found several libraries which are organizing their Internet resources like this by doing a Yahoo search for "abridged and DDC". -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 937-255-3688 ============================================================================ Organizing Computer Resources Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the DDC If you are like me, you love order but drift towards chaos. Ever since I have owned a computer I have struggled with the problem of organizing my computer materials: principally the files on my hard discs, but also the floppies, the manuals, the folders of print-outs, and the documentation that computing generates. I went through four main periods in this quest for order. 1. Application-oriented organization. In the very beginning, I made the embarrassing mistake of classifying documents according to the application that made them: all the Superpaint documents in one folder, all the WriteNow documents in another, all the Excel spreadsheets in a third. This application-oriented system has nothing to recommend it, because the application that generates a document says little about that document's essence: a Superpaint picture of a Blue Jay and a Writenow description of a Blue Jay are more closely related than, say, Superpaint pictures of a Blue Jay and a cucumber. I quickly abandoned this approach. 2. Ad hoc project-oriented organization. My second scheme was an ad-hoc hierarchical classification that attempted to group materials by related projects: birding materials in one folder, cookbooks in another, addresses in another. This seems to be the system most people use in practice. While certainly better than the application-oriented scheme, it leaves much to be desired. For one thing, it merely displaces the organizational problem from documents to projects. It imposes on the user the constant burden of making classification decisions with no guidance as to how they are to be made. Should cookbooks and diets be lumped in a "food" project? Do "figures of speech" go under linguistics or rhetoric? The same problem arises with applications: should word processors and layout programs be grouped together? Should SCSI drivers go with scanners in a peripherals category, or should they be in an operating systems category, or in a group by themselves? And so on, and so on. A second problem with the ad hoc system is that it does not lend itself to the linearization needed for organizing floppy disks and hard-copy folders. "Biology:birds:bird lists:DAM:USA:1992" may be a reasonable path in a hierarchical file system, but it is too long to write on the spine of a floppy or on a file folder label. 3. Home-brewed formalized organization. To solve the problems of the ad hoc system, I moved a couple of years ago to a four-letter system. Inspired by the OSType used so widely on the Macintosh, I devised a system of 4-letter mnemonics to use for linearization: 'RECR' for 'recreation', 'ARMS' for 'arts, musical', 'GRAP' for 'graphics applications', and so on. I was quite pleased with this system for a long time. It gave me short labels to use in organizing floppies, manuals, and hard-copy folders, as well as the files on my desktop. It was extensible, and it was fairly easy to learn. Eventually, however, I grew to hate this system. Like the ad hoc system, the four-letter scheme imposed classification decisions that had to be made in the dark. Even the decision as to whether the system was what librarians call 'faceted', i.e. composed of meaningful atoms, or enumerative, i.e. an unanalysed whole, was never made: 'GRAP' is faceted (GRaphics + APplication) while 'RECR' is enumerative. I came to feel that I was constantly making decisions that others almost certainly had made before, and had thought about harder than I could afford to. 4. Dewey! It finally occurred to me to try using library call numbers as an organizing principle. It is an obvious idea, but I had always thought that library classification systems would be useless for that purpose because I had made the same mistake I had made in the application-oriented system: I had assumed that all my files would be jammed into one tiny category for "computer software", and that the library classifications would offer no guidance as to how to subdivide that category. But this is wrong. It is like assuming that a book on taxation will be classified under "bookbinding", since it is itself a bound book. It violates what library scientists call the "rule of application", to the effect that works should be placed at their point of application; computer programs for birdwatching go with birds, not with computers, and so on. Once I grasped that principle, it became clear that library classifications were ideally suited to my organizational needs. They have evolved over a long period of time to solve exactly the sorts of problems that confronted me, and they embody a tremendous amount of collective wisdom. Importantly, they address the linearization issue that was a large part of my problem: libraries need short codes on books so that they can be reshelved quickly and accurately. I devoted some thought to the question of whether to use the Library of Congress or the Dewey Decimal classification system. Thanks to many years of misguided government subsidies during the sixties and seventies, the LC system is more widely used in the libraries I am most familiar with. On the other hand, the DDC is more international, being by far the most widely used system in the world. Support for it inside the Library of Congress is much stronger now than it used to be, and nearly all books processed by the Library of Congress these days are given both LC and DDC call numbers. Because of its decimal nature, the DDC lends itself better than the LC codes to the "broad" classification which best suits my needs: as long as I do not have too many music programs, I can simply label them "780" and not worry about making finer distinctions. Furthermore, the DDC's uniform decimal notation has always seemed to me more user-friendly, easier to remember, and just generally more aesthetically pleasing than the LC system, with its mixture of one- and two-letter bases and its odd elevation of naval and military science to highest-level categories. When I discovered the Abridged DDC, which is tailored for small collections like mine and contains everything I needed to start classifying in one concise volume, my choice was clear. Classifying the files on my Macintosh using the DDC was a joy. All the decisions I had found so onerous had already been made for me - all I had to do was look them up. Cookbooks and diets are separate, as are SCSI drivers and scanners; figures of speech belong under rhetoric, not linguistics; and so on. It would have been nice, of course, to be able to add the DDC codes as new Finder attributes on the files, but alas, that is not a facility the Mac OS supports, so I was stuck with embedding them in file names. One question I had to resolve was whether the "virtual field" containing the DDC code in the file names would be fixed-length. If the field is variable, the file names do not line up and are hard to scan: 005.7 Databases 332.024 Accounting 740 Graphics 793.93 Adventure games On the other hand, if they are fixed, then the call numbers themselves cannot exceed that fixed limit, and shorter numbers have to be padded with blanks, thus wasting valuable space. The suitability of the DDC for broad classification is very useful here, since it allows one to broaden the classification until the call number is short enough. I finally compromised on fixed fields limited to one place after the decimal; in practice this works pretty well. Here is what my highest-level "Applications" directory looks like now: 004.5 Disks & Backup 004.6 Communications 004.7 Peripherals 005.1 Programming 005.4 Utilities 005.7 Databases 006.4 Character Recognition 006.5 Sounds 332 Accounting 370 Education 400 Linguistics 526 Cartography 530.8 Color Tools 650.1 Time Management Tools 652.5 Word Processing 658.1 Spreadsheets 658.4 Presentations 686.2 Desktop Publishing 740 Graphics 780 Music 794 Games The hierarchical nature of the DDC fits in nicely with the hierarchical file system on the Macintosh: I could have combined all the 658's into a "General Management" folder, with or without subfolders for 658.1 and 658.4. Or I could have put all the 650's into a "Management and auxiliary services" folder, or even all the 600's into a "Technology" folder. This approach works with any modern file system (which DOS and WINDOWS, unfortunately, are not; their seven-character limit on file names means that one cannot mix DDC codes and descriptive names). I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the abridged DDC was to use. In many cases assigning a category was simply a matter of looking up a term like "time management" in the index and using the number it indicated, although I was always careful to verify that I had understood the term correctly by consulting the schedules. The major payoff of using the DDC in this way is the peace of mind that comes with knowing that I will never ever again have to make a classification decision on my own. In effect, I now have a vast army of librarians at the Library of Congress making those decisions for me. When I buy a new program, say Willmaker, I won't have to puzzle over where to put it; I will simply flip to the Relative Index, look up the code for "Wills", and create a new folder named "346.05". When someone comes out with software for managing soccer tournaments, I will not have to concoct some new label like "SMST"; instead I can just file it under "796.334 068". There are two principles I discovered along the way which make the entire system more workable. The first is that "book numbers" are not necessary for small collections such as mine. A book number is a code which when combined with the classification code ensures a unique call number; usually they are based on the title or on the author's name. It does not bother me if more than one item has the same code. For example, I am quite content simply to label all my word processing floppies "652.5", and to flip through them to find the one I want. Generating unique book numbers would of course be simple, but I have not found it necessary. The second principle is that I am not being graded on how accurately I follow the DDC system. I am sure that professional librarians would be shocked at some of my assignments, but who cares? I try to follow the DDC guidelines because doing so maximizes the rewards for using the system, but if I slip up or deliberately contravene the recommendations, the earth will not tremble. I have gone on to use the DDC to categorize my personal files, my computer manuals, my books, my road maps, my hand tools, my mail-order catalogues, my medicine cabinet, and my record collection. Even my son's toys are labeled: the box with his car collection is "388.3 Automobiles", his coin collection "737 Numismatics", and his stuffed animals "591.074 Zoological Collection". I have not yet labeled my spice rack "633.8" nor my vegetable bin "635", but it may come to that. The consistency gained by having a single classification scheme for all these different collections is a powerful convenience. The Classification-in-Publication (CIP) data inside most recent books greatly simplifies things, and I look forward to the day when CIP spreads to software publishing, and every floppy disk has DDC and LC numbers printed on it by the manufacturer. I believe the world urgently needs a comprehensive, broadly applicable classification scheme for knowledge, and I am increasingly convinced that the DDC fulfills that need. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- (C) 1995 by David A. Mundie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:42:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Stout Subject: Indexers in Raleigh, NC area In-Reply-To: <199701300510.AA29520@lamb.sas.com> from "Automatic digest processor" at Jan 30, 97 00:06:12 am If you are an indexer who lives in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area of North Carolina, please send me an e-mail message. I am in charge of indexing at a large software company, and we are looking for indexers who can work on-site. Please respond privately. Thank you. Joan Stout sasjcs@unx.sas.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:31:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Corrington Subject: Re: Proposals and Contracts Wilma - The National Institute of Governmental Purchasing, Inc. 11800 sunrise Valley, Suite 1050, Reston, VA 22091-5302, (703) 715-9400 This organization is the "authority" on purchasing for the public sector. They should have information that you can use, alter to meet your needs. Hope that this helps... Paul Corrington Corrington & Associates ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:10:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Naming files Janet wrote: > Do you have special schemes for naming the computer >files? Do you keep a log to know which is which index, etc? Do you annotate >the file itself? How do you all handle this? If you work in a given field >long enough, there are just so many variations on a theme in terms of file >nomenclature, and then months and/or years down the line it isn't clear which >file is which. I tend to name the index after the main word in the title or main subject (however I think of the book, for ease in remembering as I work on it). I sometimes think about changing this, since I've ended up with so many different indexes named "power," "social," "devel(opment)," and so on. (Guess which fields I tend to index?) Editors tend to refer to books by author, but I can never get myself to do this, I think partly because when they describe the book to me it's usually by subject; I don't write down the author's name till I get the book because I might not spell it right over the phone. Anyway, this has worked for me so far, mostly because I divide up file storage by client. Oh, I keep track of file names on my paper chart where I track statistics, publishing information and payment on each index. Maybe someday I'll put this in a database! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:39:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Saving computer files This has been an interesting thread. My own practice is to buy relatively inexpensive floppies and stuff as many projects onto a single disk as I can. I average about three projects per disk. At that point, I set the write disable tab and try to forget about them. However, Jonathan's reply piqued my curiosity. He wrote, in part: >>And who knows - in a hundred years' time some cyber-wired research student might be looking for historical records to find out about how people actually _did_ indexing back then.<< >From my prior lifetime as a programmer I remembered being told that our magnetic tapes wouldn't stay stable for more than about ten years. So I called one of the major disk manufacturer's (3M) hotline. They told me that if the disk and the head used to write it were both clean and that if the disk was properly protected, one could expect a shelf life of a hundred years. Satisfied with that answer, I hung up. Then it occurred to me I should have asked, "How do you really know?" In any case, those of you planning to archive your indexes for a hundred years can now do it worry-free. Thanks, Jon. Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:17:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: RRoyal8970@AOL.COM Subject: New Subscription I am not sure where I should send my name for subscription. I hope this is where... Robin Royal RRoyal8970@aol.com Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:23:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Saving computer files At 09:30 PM 2/7/97 -0500, JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: >I'm wondering if that's really necessary. It would be less cumbersome to >save the files for a period of time until the book is in print -- arbitrarily 4 months, say -- and then just reformat the file, deleting the old index. I save my old indexes on disks (as many indexes as I can squeeze on a disk), and file them with all my other backup disks. I'm only just now getting rid of indexes that are about five years old. I guess I am something of a packrat; I just don't want to delete these things! I don't keep them on my hard drive much past when I've been paid, though, except in the case of indexes i know I will be revising at some point. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:24:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Saving computer files At 12:16 PM 2/10/97 -0500, indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: >One thing to consider for those saving their indexes on floppy disks is >these have a relatively limited life expectancy, or so I believe I've read >[any computer studs/studdettes who can elaborate?], on the order of several >years. Kevin, I'm still actively using disks I got with my new computer in 1988, with no problem whatsoever...at least, no problem attributable to aging. A few have failed "just because," at about the same rate that new ones do. So I don't have a lot of concern about extended storage. It's highly unlikely that anybody will have use for a ten-year-old index, anyway. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 00:31:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dick Luxner Subject: Re: Internet Phone Charges --=====================_855650026==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Everyone, Attached is a clearer explanation than any I've seen so far. I hope it helps. Dick --=====================_855650026==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" PRSPCT-L Digest 489 From: prspct-l@bucknell.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:56 Prospect Research Discussion List From: "Shearer, Gregory" Subject: RE: RBOC charging for local Internet access http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html "the FCC tentatively concluded that providers of information services (including Internet Service Providers) should not be subject to the interstate access charges that local telephone companies currently assess on long-distance carriers." That's the web page and the relevant paragraph. Local telephone service providers (those that provide service on the first and last mile of a telephone call) want to change that opinion so the FCC will allow them to treat internet traffic like long distance traffic. The Bell Companies are not AT&T. The RBOCs make their money not from providing local service for you, but by charging AT&T (and their ilk, MCI, Sprint etc.) hefty prices to initiate and terminate long distance calls. These rates are passed on to you in the long distance part of your phone bill, and there are regulations in place to ensure that these rates are fair in terms of usage. The RBOCs want to be allowed to charge those same "access charges" to Internet Service Providers under the logic that connecting to the Internet is analogous to connecting AT&T to the long-distance telephone network (they are physically not the same wires.) The analogy is flawed in that, basically, ISPs do not have a profit margin like AT&T has. So these additional charges can be expected to be transfered directly to the consumer. (This prediction is also supported by the de-regulatory environment created by the Telecomnm Reform Act of 1996.)...Gregory Shearer --=====================_855650026==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" __________________________________________________ Dick Luxner, MLS - Development Research Consultant PO Box 277 - Stow, Massachusetts 01775 508-562-1288 - dluxner@ma.ultranet.com Member APRA NEDRA ASIS SLA ASI ALA NENON __________________________________________________ Neither can his mind be thought to be in tune, Whose words do jarre; Nor his reason in frame, Whose sentence is preposterous. - Ben Jonson --=====================_855650026==_-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:43:05 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Beth Funk Organization: Aspen Hill Computer Services Subject: Has the list been down? I am sorry to clutter the list up if I have made a mistake but tonight I have re-subscribed to the list, (with no trouble), thinking that somehow I was taken off. I have not received any posts from the list in approx. a week, this is something of a test. If I am wrong, in an attempt to make this post useful, I will introduce myself (with a red face). My name is Beth Funk, I've been lurking for a few months learning as I go. I am currently taking the first USDA Indexing class and find it interesting. My original intent was to try my hand at freelance indexing; I have learned that it will not be a "snap" and am now also working on other part time work, as I am currently self-employed. My field(s) of interest, background and training are in forestry and botany. Hello, Beth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:39:34 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Saving computer files/Naming files At 01:21 PM 2/10/97 -0500, JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > ... I don't have an organized file >nomenclature system. Do you have special schemes for naming the computer >files? Do you keep a log to know which is which index, etc? Do you annotate >the file itself? How do you all handle this? If you work in a given field >long enough, there are just so many variations on a theme in terms of file >nomenclature, and then months and/or years down the line it isn't clear which >file is which. I'd appreciate feedback on this. > >Thank you in advance, > >Janet Perlman >Southwest Indexing > > Janet, I've been facing this one too and have come up with an in-file solution which will have to do until I get long file name capability in Windows 95 or 97. Lately, whenever I open a new index in Macrex, I've been entering the book title plus any other necessary distinguishing information in a query line (beginning with a question mark). Then I can find this information later on, if necessary, simply by opening the .mbk in my word processor and looking at the bottom of the file instead of going through the whole process of reading the .mbk into a new set of .ind files just to see the title on the main menu. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:16:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Saving/naming computer files Michael Brackney wrote: Lately, whenever I open a new index in Macrex, I've been entering the book title plus any other necessary distinguishing information in a query line (beginning with a question mark). Then I can find this information later on, if necessary, simply by opening the .mbk in my word processor and looking at the bottom of the file instead of going through the whole process of reading the .mbk into a new set of .ind files just to see the title on the main menu. Michael, what a good idea! Simple but effective. I'll do this in future, too. Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:27:42 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Naming files I don't have a lot of indexes on disk, but I've found some organizing principles that keep me out of trouble most of the time. 1. Use subdirectories systematically. For example: one level for clients, another for projects. Or: one for type of project, another for clients, another for projects. Whatever works for you, as long as it reflects your working habits, is fairly stable over time, and is followed consistently. 2. For "new/big" files (or directories), mnemonic names work well. 3. For "many/small" files or directories, I tend to start every file name with a date. For example, I keep all of my letters in one directory; the last letter I wrote was named "96-02-10 to Bill, questions about spec changes.DOC." I don't have to remember much about that letter to find it in a directory listing. Of course, this assumes that you're running Windows NT or Windows 95 (or Mac) and so have access to long file names. If you're using Windows NT or 95 but you're still stuck with a 16-bit Windows application, there are a couple of utilities on the market that will let you use long file names anyway. I've had pretty good luck with "Long File Names Now!" from Smartt Software. There's a limited-time full-function demo available; it's probably on the developer's web site at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Smartt_Software. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:18:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marie-Lise Shams Subject: Re: Saving computer files In-Reply-To: <9702110040.AA16417@ciesin.org> Can't resist to add: in a hundred years, will "they" have the equipment to run the disks? How many new computers "now" have a 5.25" drive? (these big floppies, remember?) Reminds me of all the 8-track tapes I have in my basement. I have the player, but it is not working. Cheers. Marie-Lise ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Marie-Lise Shams ^ ^ Information Specialist ^ ^ Consortium for International Earth ^ ^ Science Information Network (CIESIN) ^ ^ 2250 Pierce Road ^ ^ University Center Michigan 48710 ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Phone: +1-517-797-2790 ^ ^ Fax: +1-517-797-2622 ^ ^ E-mail: mshams@ciesin.org ^ ^ URL: http://www.ciesin.org ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On Mon, 10 Feb 1997, Craig Brown wrote: > This has been an interesting thread. My own practice is to buy relatively > inexpensive floppies and stuff as many projects onto a single disk as I > can. I average about three projects per disk. At that point, I set the > write disable tab and try to forget about them. > > However, Jonathan's reply piqued my curiosity. He wrote, in part: > > >>And who knows - in a hundred years' time some cyber-wired research > student > might be looking for historical records to find out about how people > actually > _did_ indexing back then.<< > > >From my prior lifetime as a programmer I remembered being told that our > magnetic tapes wouldn't stay stable for more than about ten years. So I > called one of the major disk manufacturer's (3M) hotline. They told me > that if the disk and the head used to write it were both clean and that if > the disk was properly protected, one could expect a shelf life of a hundred > years. Satisfied with that answer, I hung up. Then it occurred to me I > should have asked, "How do you really know?" In any case, those of you > planning to archive your indexes for a hundred years can now do it > worry-free. > > Thanks, Jon. > > Craig Brown > The Last Word > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:56:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Naming files In a message dated 97-02-10 18:12:14 EST, you write: > Do you have special schemes for naming the computer > >files? I have always kept my index files in a client-based directory structure, with folders for each client, and subfolders for each project, occasionally subsubfolders for various portions of a project. I haven't had any problems with that at all, other than trying to remember the exact path down while in Cindex, which doesn't let you browse structures. I usually make a shortcut in Windows for the current ones to open them quickly. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:19:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: Naming files In-Reply-To: <970211095651_-1509022985@emout12.mail.aol.com> > > Do you have special schemes for naming the computer > > >files? Actually, I got tired of figuring out what I had named files for specific projects, so last summer I began working on a scheme that I'm actually using (and liking). The computer files are actually named after the project names scheme I have. Here's a brief outline... When a project comes in & is solidified, I give it a unique project code. That code has 3 letters & 3 numbers. The letters come from the name of the publisher (for example, books I would do for Joe Blow Press would probably begin with the letters JBP). The numbers are assigned to indicate the # of the project I've done for that publisher. So, if it is the 4th project I've done for Joe Blow Press, the unique project code would be JBP004. All documents & files created for that project, are titled with that code. (of course I have a catalog so that I can access the number by book title, and by publisher ;-).) In my word processor, I have a sub-directory called "invoices", in which I can see the codes. I have a sub-directory called "contracts", in which I see the codes. Etc. I delete stuff from my hard drive regularly. Small bits of info (like invoices & contracts) are kept in paper copy only, while large bits of info (like copies of CINDEX files & formatted copies of indexes) are kept on floppy disks. This works for me, because I'm quite the organized person (in libraries, I have actually been teased by other librarians - including catalogers - for my organization addiction). I wanted all projects for specific publishers to be filed together, yet having separate sections of files for publishers with whom I work only once or twice seemed inefficient. Hope this helps (or at least makes you chuckle). -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:39:08 -0300 Reply-To: david@southquest.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Egan Organization: SouthQuest S.A. Subject: Help Indexer's Discussion Group: I want to signoff, I would appreciate if someone tells me how to do it. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:31:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Naming files In a message dated 97-02-11 01:34:00 EST, Jonathan wrote: > If you're using Windows NT or 95 but you're still stuck with a 16-bit > Windows application, there are a couple of utilities on the market that will > let you use long file names anyway. I've had pretty good luck with "Long > File Names Now!" from Smartt Software. There's a limited-time full-function > demo available; it's probably on the developer's web site at > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Smartt_Software. Jonathan, Thanks! It turns out that my husband had that little gem hidden on the 486 all this time without my knowing it. It would definitely solve the problem for Word docs like the one I just uploaded called "ptsp.doc". (Try figuring out what that one is two months from now!) ;-D I follow a folder/subfolder scheme similar to yours, which helps to some extent. However, Macrex limits file names to only six characters, which leads to file names even more cryptic than DOS's, so I have a hard disk full of index files with names like "vrtl" and "wpft". (And which WordPerfect book out of the many I've indexed does that one refer to?) Arrrrgh!! And these names carry over to when I dump the RTF files into Word so I can maintain some measure of filename consistency between the Macrex files and their word-processed offspring. (Another real horror is for FrameMaker projects where the clients have already named the files, yet I have far different names for the Macrex files I create before embedding.) I do have a system that would help me find an old index file if I ever need one, had I been using it to its full potential. (I haven't had to do revisions of old indexes, but have dug them out to use as samples for prospective clients and for putting together transparencies of index excerpts for seminars/workshops on indexing.) I assign each project a number which consists of a three-digit sequence number and a three-letter mnemonic based on the client name. I keep a running log on my hard disk that shows the actual name of the book, publisher, due date, etc. Unfortunately, it hadn't dawned on me until now to use the project numbers in creating file names in addition to using them for generating invoice numbers, etc. Had I been doing so, I wouldn't have my huge pile of floppies of old index files going back for years with cryptic file names that I can only decipher by looking at the names of the books in the log and comparing the file dates to the due dates. So, here's to a new project-number-based file naming system starting with my very next index. :-) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:29:25 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Mr., Mrs. 11 February 1997 Hi, Index-L-ers: I'd like to pick your collective brains on your preferences for the sorting of book or movie titles which include "Mr." or "Mrs." as the first word, as in "Mr. and Mrs. Bridges." Do you sort under "MI" [for "mister"] or under MR? Now that the 14th edition of the _Chicago Manual of Style_ recommends separating Mac's from Mc's, instead of grouping them, as was their former preference, I imagined that they would also go for sorting "Mr." under the MR's, the general trend seeming to be toward computer sorting styles. However, Chicago seems to be silent on the subject of alphabetizing such titles, so I'm interested in knowing what *you* think. TIA!--Laura Moss Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:00:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Mr., Mrs. See pages 4-5 of Wellisch, Indexing From A to Z. He has some book/movie/magazine titles (in italics) listed on page 5: Mr. Adams Mrs. Miniver Ms. (magazine) (He says CMS "has at long last come around to prefer alphabetization of abbreviations as written..."St." occurring in personal and place names as if spelled out." See CMS 17.101 At 12:29 PM 2/11/97 -0600, Laura M. Gottlieb wrote: >11 February 1997 > >Hi, Index-L-ers: > I'd like to pick your collective brains on your preferences for the >sorting of book or movie titles which include "Mr." or "Mrs." as the first >word, as in "Mr. and Mrs. Bridges." Do you sort under "MI" [for "mister"] >or under MR? > Now that the 14th edition of the _Chicago Manual of Style_ recommends >separating Mac's from Mc's, instead of grouping them, as was their former >preference, I imagined that they would also go for sorting "Mr." under the >MR's, the general trend seeming to be toward computer sorting styles. >However, Chicago seems to be silent on the subject of alphabetizing such >titles, so I'm interested in knowing what *you* think. TIA!--Laura Moss >Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:12:38 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Saving computer files/Naming files In-Reply-To: <199702110502.XAA16364@mixcom.mixcom.com> For those of you who are still saving files to floppies (as opposed to, say, Zip disks or tape or whatever), you might also consider using file compression software so as to fit more finished indexes onto each disk. On the order of twice as many. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:22:35 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Defintion? Please excuse the interruption; can someone with a medical dictionary with psychiatric terms look up "hypervigilance" for me, please? I'm looking for a general definition, not necessarily related to PTSD. Thanks, and sorry to clutter the list with this. If anyone can point me at a good online dictionary of medical/psych terms, that would be way cool. :-) If your browser supports html markup, you can click here to reply: mailto:norcross@ix.netcom.com Otherwise, just hit the reply button. Thanks, Ann Norcross ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:41:48 -0500 Reply-To: riomaro@riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Organization: Riofrancos & Co. Indexes Subject: Re: Mr., Mrs. My view is that main headings that begin with abbreviations such as Dr., Mr., and Mrs. should be alphabetized as if spelled out. Otherwise, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" and "Mister Roberts" or "Doctor Zhivago" and "Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist" would be listed too far apart from each other in many cases. The problem is that users may not always know the "correct" version of a title, and if they looked for "Mr." under "M-i-s-t-e-r" (or vice-versa) and did not find it, they might mistakenly assume it's not in the index. For the same reason, I prefer mixing together Mc's and Mac's under "Mac". A couple of small problems: not every user may know that "Mrs." is an abbreviation of "Mistress," but even if they looked under the way it sounds (Misses), they would be close enough. "Ms.," however, is not an abbreviation. Should it be alphabetized under m-s, or under its sound, "Miz"? In this case I prefer the former, on the grounds that it is not an abbreviation. Laura M. Gottlieb wrote: > > 11 February 1997 > > Hi, Index-L-ers: > I'd like to pick your collective brains on your preferences for the > sorting of book or movie titles which include "Mr." or "Mrs." as the first > word, as in "Mr. and Mrs. Bridges." Do you sort under "MI" [for "mister"] > or under MR? > Now that the 14th edition of the _Chicago Manual of Style_ recommends > separating Mac's from Mc's, instead of grouping them, as was their former > preference, I imagined that they would also go for sorting "Mr." under the > MR's, the general trend seeming to be toward computer sorting styles. > However, Chicago seems to be silent on the subject of alphabetizing such > titles, so I'm interested in knowing what *you* think. TIA!--Laura Moss > Gottlieb, Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:43:01 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Good Indexer Subject: Re: Has the list been down? If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:54:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was maryann@ELMO.REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US From: Maryann Corbett Organization: Revisor of Statutes Subject: Re: Has the list been down? Good Indexer wrote: > > If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask > because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. Although the question wasn't asked of me, it's a really good question, and I'm going to try to stimulate a thread about "what else indexers do." I've found that for many of the members of Twin Cities ASI, it's important to combine your indexing business with something else. Thesaurus design, literature searches, copyediting, proofreading, and translation are among the jobs done by the folks I know. -- Maryann Corbett Language Specialist Office of the Revisor of Statutes Minnesota Legislature 612-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:08:25 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Has the list been down? In-Reply-To: <3300EA8E.AFF@revisor.leg.state.mn.us> >Good Indexer wrote: >> >> If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask >> because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. > 1. Psychiatric emergency intervention for the local mental health center (avg. 30 hrs a week on call plus some regular psychotherapy clients). 2. Take care of 10 to 40 cats for an eccentric rich person in return for my apartment 3. Make beads from glass or polymer clay 4. make and decorate boxes in various media 5. watch as much TV as possible 6. blame the variety on Attention Deficit Disorder Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 15:16:00 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Schwilk, Michael" A situation has arisen in which an acquisitions editor has requested the following of freelance indexer working on a 10 volume encyclopedia of human biology. He writes: If an entry includes reference to the actual article, that reference should appear first before the other references regardless of sequence. For example: Liver 9:406-417, 2:523, 4:677 (In this example the actual "Liver" article appears in Vol. 9.) Given the fact that the freelancer is well beyond the halfway point, in terms of inputting, she went ballistic when she heard th My feeling is that a.) this would not be readily apparent to the user unless he/she happened to read the "How to use the encyclopedia" section (in the first volume at that-the index is a separate volume); b.) if a particular article was to be emphasized, boldface would be the way to do it--not throwing locators out of sequence; and c.) great ideas like this should be thought of at or near the beginning of production, not halfway through the project. My questions for the group are: has anyone ever heard of this? Is there an easy way to "trick" Cindex into throwing one locator to the beginning of a string yet sorting the others in correct order? Any thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated. Michael Schwilk Academic Press ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:10:48 +0000 Reply-To: norcross@ix.netcom.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Has the list been down? Good Indexer wrote: > > If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask > because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. In no particular order: 1. Garden 2. Herbal stuff (aromatherapy, sachets, gardening, etc) 3. Read, read, read, read (murder mysteries, Buddhism, garden catalogs and books, and office supply catalogs seem to be the four constants on my bed-side table) 4. play with my cat 5. rearrange my office 6. surf the 'net 7. work with recovering alcoholics 8. clean the house, do the shopping, wash the clothes, entertain my friends, the usual house stuff 9. wish I had more work 10. wish I had less work Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:13:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@AOL.COM Subject: what else besides Indexing? In a message dated 97-02-11 17:09:57 EST, you write: > >> If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask > >> because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. technical writing, editing, research, PC training, Internet training Peg Mauer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:16:04 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Defintion? Ann, I don't have the dictionary definition, but I sure know what hypervigilance *is*. This will probably not be of help to you, but a person is hypervigilant when she goes around trying to have eyes in the back of her head because she feels the next problem that catches her by surprise will knock her off her feet! And, of course, life always serves up plenty of surprises, many of which one can't see coming no matter how "hypervigilant" one is! The term just really caught my eye because I am (thankfully) recovering from Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and I can remember vividly how I felt a year or so ago! May your vigilance always be moderate & reasonable. -- Ann Truesdale "The tenacity of a habit is usually in proportion to its absurdity." Marcel Proust ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:36:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: Sorting locators Re: > Liver 9:406-417, 2:523, 4:677 > > Given the fact that the freelancer is well beyond the halfway > point, in terms of inputting, she went ballistic when she heard th I have done something similar with a series in which the map pages appeared first (it was a travel series), at the request of the publisher. It worked fine, as the pages were also in bold. However, I think that simply using bold would be tidier and just as comprehensible. However, if the editor insists, the indexer should sit down happily to invoice for every extra hour the work requires. As you note, if this was not agreed on at the beginning, and is not in the index specs as agreed to by the editor, it is a bit ridiculous AND it should not be covered by the original work estimate. I would point out to the editor that the indexer would be _delighted_ to do it at $X/hour and that she will be extra careful to get this tedious work done correctly (give a healthy time estimate). Unfortunately, even bolding would take a certain amount of time at this point, so I don't know that the editor would find any alternative better. I cannot imagine any easy way to do this, even in Cindex, since every entry would have to be looked at individually to identify the appropriate vol and pages. I can imagine this being even more time consumng than the part of going in to change the page numbers around, or to force the sort with hidden characters inside curly brackets. Good luck Christine ************************************************************************* Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Documentation and Library Systems John Abbott College P.O. Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC H9X 3L9 of:(514) 457-6610, loc.470; fax: (514) 457-4730 ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:29:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Beth Funk Organization: Aspen Hill Computer Services Subject: Re: Has the list been down? Good Indexer wrote: > > If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask > because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. Personal computer consultant, Teach basic PC and Internet classes locally through Outreach program, Read! Indexing, Gardening, Computers, Garden... passionately. I am also an archer, and love to ride horses. Beth ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:11:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge <74452.2615@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Patrizia Brasch--please contact me Patrizia Brasch, who mailed me regarding membership in the Indexing and Abstracting Society of Canada, please contact me again. Regrettably, I deleted your message containing your fax number, and have only an incomplete e-mail address for you. Noeline Bridge ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:00:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Mr. and Mrs. Laura M. Gottlieb wrote: I'd like to pick your collective brains on your preferences for the >sorting of book or movie titles which include "Mr." or "Mrs." as the first >word, as in "Mr. and Mrs. Bridges." Do you sort under "MI" [for "mister"] >or under MR? I have two film guides, Leonard Maltin's Movie & Video Guide and Halliwell's Film & Video Guide - both 1997 editions, the former US, the latter UK. Maltin sorts 'Mr. Ace' after 'Mozambique', and so on up to 'Mr. Wrong', which is followed by 'Ms. Don Juan' and 'Ms. 45'; then comes 'Much Ado About Nothing'. 'Mrs. Mike' comes after 'Mr. Skitch', and the 'Mr.' sequence resumes after 'Mrs. Winterbourne' with 'Mr. Sycamore'. Halliwell, however, treats both Mr and Mrs as though they were spelt out: 'Mrs Brown, You've Got a Lovely Daughter' comes after 'Mistress'. This means that 'Mister Roberts' is found between 'Mr Ricco' and 'Mr Robinson Crusoe', much more logical to my mind. Also, in Halliwell 'Doctor Zhivago' is in among the Drs, whereas Maltin has Drs and Doctors in separate sequences. I never knew there were so many films with Mr, Mrs or Dr in the title! Sorry about all the single quotes; I know you use double ones in the US, but I find it easier to stick to single ones. Also (like Halliwell) I omit full stops - or should I say periods - after Mr, Mrs and Dr. Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:43:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Has the list been down? In a message dated 97-02-11 16:57:39 EST, you write: > If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask > because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. Indexing is my only paid line of work, but other things I do include: 1) drawing (formerly in charcoals, but now on the computer where I don't have to lay newspaper all over the floor); 2) composing music on my keyboard (used to do it on the Commodore 64 years ago where technical playing skill wasn't an issue)... playing jam sessions with my daughter and her boyfriend... making tapes of our playing... trying to get people to listen to the tapes 3) reading mostly science fiction (but not as much as I did before I started reading for a living ;-D); 4) avidly following Babylon 5, all of the Star Treks... and talking for hours to a client who's also an avid fan... who even calls just to talk to my husband who shares our mania!... looking at Worf a thousand times a day who's the character for February on my Star Trek wall calendar... thinking about drawing a portrait of Worf on the computer and all of those wonderful light and shadow effects I could make drawing his Klingon forehead... 5) watching all of those gross Discovery Channel shows 6) spending way too many hours on the computer net surfing, doing email, drawing, frittering with the Windows interface, playing computer games (of which I have too many) etc. 7) spending hours lost in thought (unfamiliar territory as it is)... BTW, to whomever asked the original subject line question of this thread, no the list hasn't been down at all. But I've been seeing replies to statements/questions where I haven't seen the original post, so something weird is going on. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:21:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Corrington Subject: Re: No Subject Michael - I read your posting and an idea came to me. Since the automated indexing software can't list the citations in an "out of order" manner, then the solution is to attack the problem after you have completed utilizing the indexing software. Upon completion inputing the data into the automated software, move the complete file into a word processing file format and there address the out of order sequence of citations. This means that you either wait to put the our of order citation into the index after it is moved to the w/p software, or input it into the index and then relocate it later. Either way will result in extra time. Hope this idea will help. Let me know if it works for you. Thanks....Paul Corrington & Associates Paul Corri@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:52:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Deducting the costs of PC and software In-Reply-To: <199702120338.AA02352@world.std.com> I didn't pay too much attention to this thread a few months back but now I have a large developmental editing job and potentially others, all freelance jobs, that require me to have a PC. I'm buying one soon. I've been getting by with my old Mac for years. Since I have kids, the PC will probably only be used about half the time for my freelance work. Can I expense half the cost (since half is for personal use) in my 1997 taxes? I'll have enough income to justify the expense but I'm still able to use the EZ form of Schedule C. I tried when I bought the Mac to use the depreciation form but we gave up after a year. The money we saved wasn't worth the effort of trying to understand the rules. Is there any publication that explains this clearly? And while I'm at it, maybe I'll solicit some advice about PCs? We're going to buy an MMX machine but it seems to me that the Pentium 166 chip is adequate, that I don't need a Pentium 200 chip or is there a big difference? I'll be using it mostly for desktop publishing. Also what do people recommend in video cards. I'm not sure I understand the difference between VRAM, WRAM, and DRAM in video. Learning fast, Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:56:16 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helvetia Martell Subject: Re: Has the list been down? >If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask >because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. > Proofreading, some copyediting, and some translation (all this in/to Spanish). I am also working on my own research related with Hispanic Studies. Helvetia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:11:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: 10 Vol. encyclopedia As far as I know, CINDEX has no magic button to push in cases like this, where the human brain (and hand) must do the work. But your idea of bolding the significant references might be the best way to go; at least that would not mean changing the order of the page references. In addition to that, obviously there should be a headnote at the beginning of the index to the effect that bolfaced page refences refer to significant treatment. The indexer (poor soul, are you out there? My sympathies.) would be entitled to whatever extra compensation necessary to pick out the significant passages and bold them. Of course, if the editor insists on this style, well, then, so be it. But perhaps there needs to be a rational discussion of how this treatment is so unusual that the average index user (even of such a specialized work as this encyclopedia) would not be expecting such treatment of the material and probably, as you say, would not even know that the order of the pages had any significance. Since most users may not even read headnotes, but may intuitively know that boldface means something special, well...I would boldface the page references and pay the indexer accordingly. Hope this adds something to your arsenal. Yes indeed, things like this should be decided at the beginning of the project. At 03:16 PM 2/11/97 PST, Schwilk, Michael wrote: > A situation has arisen in which an acquisitions editor has requested > the following of freelance indexer working on a 10 volume encyclopedia > of human biology. He writes: > > If an entry includes reference to the actual article, that > reference should appear first before the other references regardless > of sequence. > > For example: > > Liver 9:406-417, 2:523, 4:677 > > (In this example the actual "Liver" article appears in Vol. 9.) > > Given the fact that the freelancer is well beyond the halfway > point, in terms of inputting, she went ballistic when she heard th > My feeling is that a.) this would not be readily apparent to the user > unless he/she happened to read the "How to use the encyclopedia" > section (in the first volume at that-the index is a separate volume); > b.) if a particular article was to be emphasized, boldface would be > the way to do it--not throwing locators out of sequence; and c.) great > ideas like this should be thought of at or near the beginning of > production, not halfway through the project. > > My questions for the group are: has anyone ever heard of this? Is > there an easy way to "trick" Cindex into throwing one locator to the > beginning of a string yet sorting the others in correct order? > > Any thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated. > > Michael Schwilk > Academic Press > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:04:47 GMT Reply-To: Martin_Ahermaa@tvo.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Martin Ahermaa Organization: TVOntario's Online System Posting by Michael Schwilk: Is a quick subject index possible for this project? That is one that incorporates primarily main subject headings, volume and page numbers. Martin_Ahermaa@tvo.org, Toronto ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:25:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: 10 Vol. encyclopedia Cynthia wrote: >As far as I know, CINDEX has no magic button to push in cases like this, > Sure it does. You can just use the {} brackets in the page field to force a sort. In this case you'd just use {1} in front of the volume nine reference to make Cindex sort it as if it was volume 1. Granted you must do this manually, but it's no big deal. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:38:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: 10 Vol. encyclopedia Oops, forgot about that one. That's true, but you still have to do it manually! There is no function that will do a global. That's what I meant. It's the same as doing a bold on all those references. I prefer the bold approach, so to speak. The indexer is still going to have spend the time in looking for the extended treatment page ranges in order to do this sort. It's not the usual way to do this and I don't think it should be encouraged, since I as a user would find it awkward and I imagine others would, too. Just my opinion. At 12:25 PM 2/12/97 -0500, indexer@INETCOM.NET wrote: >Cynthia wrote: >>As far as I know, CINDEX has no magic button to push in cases like this, >> > >Sure it does. You can just use the {} brackets in the page field to force a >sort. In this case you'd just use {1} in front of the volume nine reference >to make Cindex sort it as if it was volume 1. Granted you must do this >manually, but it's no big deal. > >Kevin Mulrooney > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Dyslexics of the world untie! > >First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 >276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net >Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:51:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: s mckittrick Subject: Re: Has the list been down? In-Reply-To: <199702112142.QAA15762@iris.iupui.edu> On Tue, 11 Feb 1997, Good Indexer wrote: > If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask > because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. > 1. For the past 17 years, I have taught at least one fitness class almost every day. And for four years have done personal training part time. Take "real" dance classes for fun & relaxation. 2. Substitute at the public library. 3. When things are very slow I assist my husband who is a master interior painter/renovator. 4. Play with cats and run the household (no children). 5. Spare time--read voratiously about the fitness industry, wellness, philosophy & fiction. P.S. As a beginner indexer I welcome indexing leads in the fitness/wellness field. Please respond personally. Sharon vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Sharon McKittrick 317-352-0615 ssmckitt@velcome.iupui.edu 812 North Leland Avenue Indianapolis, IN 46219-4325 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:54:51 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: OneClick (for Mac users) A while back we were talking briefly about scripting tools to Macs (which could then be used to do various things in Cindex, for example). If anyone's interested in checking this out, there's a product called OneClick that's used for scripting (and other system-related tasks, so it seems to go far beyond what QuicKeys does). The description can be found at http://www.westcodesoft.com And until Friday, there's a special price break on it ($60) at http://www.westcodesoft.com/evangelist/. BTW, the upgrade price (from QuicKeys) is $50. This is not an endorsement on my part--I haven't used it yet, although I did just buy it--but I just wanted to let people know who might want to read about it while the special price is still in effect. It got a great write-up in MacUser last June. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:10:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" <104146.1652@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Internet access charges and ISPs For those interested in the issues surrounding recent attempts by telecommunications companies to impose access charges on Internet service providers, see the "Telcom World" section (beginning on page TW/1) of Infoworld, Feb. 10 1997 issue. John Sullivan jsulliva@walldata.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:44:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Good Indexer Subject: Re: Has the list been down? Lynn: I don't read as much as I used to or want to either. Reading e-mail takes up a lot of my time, and playing Tetris on the computer. I'm trying to beat my son but never will, as he has 24,000 point games. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 15:01:26 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Schwilk, Michael" Subject: Encyclopedia index Thanks to all who responded to my post. I think we have convinced the acquisitions editor that his idea won't fly--at least not for this project (although he wants to do something similar for other encyclopedia projects coming up). I think the added cost factor was convincing. Michael Schwilk Academic Press ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:57:05 -0800 Reply-To: tourmi@concentric.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: tourmi Subject: Re: Defintion? Ann Norcross wrote: >=20 > Please excuse the interruption; can someone with a medical dictionary > with psychiatric terms look up "hypervigilance" for me, please? I'm > looking for a general definition, not necessarily related to PTSD. >=20 > Thanks, and sorry to clutter the list with this. If anyone can point m= e > at a good online dictionary of medical/psych terms, that would be way > cool. :-) >=20 > If your browser supports html markup, you can click here to reply: > mailto:norcross@ix.netcom.com > Otherwise, just hit the reply button. >=20 > Thanks, > Ann Norcross Ann: A welcome surprise to see such a question. I'm a Marriage, Family and Child Counselor making a career change into technical writing, believe it or not. Managed care has seriously threatened private practice, and I don't want to do full time counseling anyway. Let me first respond personally, from my clinical experience, then I'll quote the Psychiatric Dictionary. Clinically, I'd say hypervigilance is an uncommonly thorough or continuous scanning of the emotional environment for any possible landmines, so much so that one's normal functioning is impaired by the intensity of the attention and effort required. Being a student of the Object Relations school, I believe its origins are in early interactions with caretakers, such as an alcoholic or violent parent, making such vigilance a necessity for survival. And, being a student of Control Mastery Theory, I'd further say that these experiences resulted in the child developing a pathogenic belief (pathogenic in that it leads to disruption in later life) that this treatment is to be expected throughout life from significant others (and if it generalizes, from all others) and that one probably deserved it in the first place (after all, what else are young children to think?). That's my hit on it. For a more formal definition, which frankly didn't do me much good when reading it as I typed it for you, here is an entry from the Psychiatric Dictionary by Robert J. Campbell, MD, 1981, for Vigilance (I couldn't find Hypervigilance): "The general alerting function or sentinel activity of the nervous system; in condition reflex experiments, each positive or negative conditioned stimulus causes a sharp spike of sudden alertness, termed stimulus-vigilance. Stimulus-vigilance is considered to be an emergency-reaction to a stress stimulus in a stressful situation. "When an animal undergoing a regimen of difficult conditioning succumbs to an experimental neurosis we may suppose that its final traumatic reaction to the repeated stress situations of the conditioning laboratory was due to a gradual heightening of the vigilance level from day to day in consequence of the summation of the aftereffects of stimulus-vigilance enduring for days, weeks, or months. Finally, an end point or breaking point is reached beyond which the animals management of its emergency function becomes faulty as indicated by its neurotic manifestations.=20 The intensity of the vigilance level of the day depends then not only upon the total stimulus load, ie upon the number, intensity, duration, and temporal spacing of the specific vigilance reactions aroused by the positive and negative conditioned stimuli of the experimental day, but also upon the lingering traces of stimulus-vigilance from previous conditioning sessions.=92 (H.S. Liddell, in The Biology of Mental Health and Disease, 1952) " Hope this helps. Let me know if I can help further. Steve Ross ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 16:17:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software At 09:52 AM 2/12/97 -0500, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: . >Can I expense half the cost (since half is for personal use) in my 1997 >taxes? I'll have enough income to justify the expense but I'm still able >to use the EZ form of Schedule C. I tried when I bought the Mac to use the >depreciation form but we gave up after a year. The money we saved wasn't >worth the effort of trying to understand the rules. You can "expense" (using Section 179) up to $17,500 of otherwise depreciable assets (such as your computer)...but they must be used more than 50% in your business. Why not give the kids the old Mac, and keep the new PC exclusively for your business? Also, remember the "regularly and exclusively used for business" clause regarding home offices. If your new machine is in your home office, the kids shouldn't be using it much--if at all. My 1996 tax packet, which includes Schedule C and Form 4562 (used to figure your Section 179 expensable amount), also has complete instructions on how to file these forms. If for some reason your packet doesn't have this information, you can reach the IRS on the Web: http://www.irs.ustreas.gov >And while I'm at it, maybe I'll solicit some advice about PCs? We're >going to buy an MMX machine but it seems to me that the Pentium 166 chip >is adequate, that I don't need a Pentium 200 chip or is there a big >difference? I'll be using it mostly for desktop publishing. Also what do >people recommend in video cards. I'm not sure I understand the difference >between VRAM, WRAM, and DRAM in video. Prices are dropping fast, so I'd get the fastest machine I could afford...which for DTP is probably going to be at least a 166. I would avoid the new MMX machines for a year or so; like any new product (remember the Pentium chip problem right after its release?), it's bound to have a few glitches. The Pentium chips are reliable and stable now and should provide all the speed you need for the foreseeable future. The MMX primarily aids in intensive game usage and 3-D depictions...not anything you're likely to require. I'm researching a new computer for my parents, and they ought to be able to get a Pentium 120 (slower than what you need, but not a huge price differential), 16 megs of RAM, a 1.5 gigabyte drive, a 15-inch .28 dot pitch screen with 2 MB of VRAM/DRAM, a CD-ROM drive, and a lower-level multimedia kit (speakers and sound card) for around $1100. The setup you are looking to buy would probably cost about $1500 max right now; less if you wait another month or two. All this is IMO, of course...your mileage may differ. Good luck! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:34:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: New STC Indexing PIC Some other indexers and I want to start an Indexing PIC (Professional Interest Committee) for STC. If you are a member of STC and would be interested in joining us, please send me a private e-mail message (or a fax) with your name, e-mail address, snail-mail address, phone #s, and your STC chapter affiliation. Also, please let me know if you plan to attend the STC Annual Conference in Toronto; I'm hoping several of us will be able to meet F2F then. :-) Happy indexing .... Lori ******************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ******************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:40:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software In-Reply-To: <199702130021.AA03785@world.std.com> Sonsie - Thanks for the info. I don't deduct my home office space because it's used by everyone. My old Mac only runs old games that we've had for years. It's been a while since I've been able to buy a game that would run on the Mac. So the kids are looking forward to a computer with a CD-ROM drive. I can probably justify the over 50% because I'm doing a developmental edit (I'd call it testing) on a book on Microsoft Office '97 which is 100% tutorial. Can I deduct the percentage of the cost that I think I use it for work? I'll be using the computer a lot for work. What about deducting software? I remember there were disagreements about this recently on this list. We're looking at a Pentium 166. I'm actually inclined to get the MMX chip now rather than have to upgrade later. The options are overwhelming. We bought our Mac in 1991 and it's been a wonderful and reliable computer. I think it has needed one repair in 6 years. I'm sure we'll keep it around for word processing for teenagers. Any input on tax info is welcome. Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:06:30 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: rnorris@ATNF.CSIRO.AU Subject: IAU Joint Discussion on electronic publishing in astronomy This message has been posted to several relevant lists. Please excuse any duplicate cross-postings that may land in your mailbox. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Colleague At the IAU General Assembly in Kyoto in August this year (see http://www.tenmon.or.jp/iau97/ for details) will be a one-day Joint Discussion (JD12) on Electronic Publishing in Astronomy, entitled "Electronic Publishing: Now and the Future" (http://www.tenmon.or.jp/iau97/prog/ib78/jd12.html for details). The purpose of this email is to request abstracts from anyone wishing to present a poster for this Joint Discussion. If you wish to do so, please send me (rnorris@atnf.csiro.au) an abstract by March 15, following the guidelines given in http://www.tenmon.or.jp/iau97/pres.html Please forward this mail on to other colleagues who you think may be interested, or relevant exploders/newsgroups/etc. regards Ray Norris CSIRO Australia Telescope National Facility PO Box 76 Email: rnorris@atnf.csiro.au Epping WWW: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~rnorris NSW 2121 Phone: +61 2 9372 4100 Australia Fax: +61 2 9372 4400 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:26:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: Re: What do you do? In addition to indexing, I do collaborative and ghost writing, copy editing, and proofreading. These combinations seem quite common! Ann Parrish Parrish Professional Indexing and The Ethical Ghost: Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:36:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What do you do? Indexing brings in my money. Otherwise, I: 1) Homeschool with my nine-year-old daughter, which involves many things (today, learning how to belay so I can help at the rock wall at our homeschooling play day) 2) Draw, with charcoal, pencil and colored pencil 3) Read, mysteries, older kid novels, and nonfiction of many kinds (usually have about 12 books going at a time) 4) Talk to my partner, several hours a day (parenting, feminism and other politics, etc) 5) Go dancing when I get a chance (worldbeat, rhythm and blues) 6) Design quilts 7) Study Spanish, these days 8) Various other interests that cycle in and out, with passion when they're in... Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:35:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: Taxes, PCs and software (long) Sarah, The following is my understanding of IRS stuff, based on talks with the IRS help lines and with people who have been audited: If you buy a computer that is cheap enough so that your TOTAL business expenses are less than $2,500, then it is absolutely fine to expense half the purchase price on the "Total Expenses" line of Schedule C-EZ. (See page 4, Part V, Instructions for Form 4562) However, if your total expenses will be more than $2,500, than you'll need to move up to Schedule C. If you need to do this, it's still relatively easy to expense your computer: To do it correctly, get Form 4562, the dreaded Depreciation and Amortization form. A few comments on how the IRS works before I get into this: First, as long as you pay the right amount of money and fill everything out in good faith, they won't penalize you for not filling everything out exactly the way they'd like. For example, if you bought "Indexing Books" last year, it doesn't matter if you put it under "Office Expense" or "Supplies," as long as you could tell an auditor what you did. So: If you can say you used the computer for 100% business use, just expense it on line 6 of form 4562. Call it "office equipment." Lots of people get away with just putting it under "Office expense" on Schedule C, and if they get audited, they may get dirty looks from the auditor, but as long as they didn't buy another computer for 5 years, they'll probably be OK. If you used your computer for a percentage of business use, you have to put it under "Listed Property," Section V of Form 4562. This isn't fun, but it's not that hard. Here's what you do: On line 24, sections (a), (b), (c) are obvious. (d) is the price of the computer. Now the fun part: for (e) (basis for depreciation), write "O"! You aren't going to depreciate this miserable $2000 computer! Depreciation's for people who buy cars and use them in their business! Forget it! The directions for this line say, essentially, "multiply the percentage of use by the cost of the computer. Then subtract however much you'd like to expense as a 179 deduction." That's helpful for people who bought airplanes. They can expense $17,500 of the cost, and then depreciate the rest. But you can expense the whole thing, as long as your computer cost less than $17,500. Now in (f), put 5 years. You can leave (g) blank, or write HY, for half-year, the depreciation method you would use if you were going to do this. For (h)(depreciation deduction), write "O." And finally, for (i)(Elected section 179 cost), write the cost multiplied by the percentage of time you used the computer for business. Lines 26 and 27 will now be obvious. Now go to the front of the form and fill out line 7 and lines 20, 21. Fill out the line about 179 deductions on the Schedule C. You are all done. But don't buy another computer for 5 years. If instead of a computer, you've bought software, again you can probably get away with putting it under "Office expense" even though that's not really correct. To do it correctly, all you need to do is put 1/3 of the purchase price on line 19 (ACRS and other depreciation) of the same form (See p.4, Line 19, Instructions for Form 4562). Do this for 3 years. That's all there is to it. Good publications to get for all this stuff are Pub. 587 "Business Use of your home," Pub. 946 "How to Depreciate Property," and Pub. 334 "Tax guide for Small Businesses." Hope this helps. Heather Jones /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 02:06:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth <106234.1745@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Hypervigilance Ann Norcross asked about the meaning of hypervigilance. I claim no specialized knowledge and had never heard the term before, but by sheer coincidence I heard it used yesterday by a psychologist being interviewed on the radio. From what I could gather, she used it to refer to obsessive behaviour, such as repeatedly checking that you have turned off an appliance, or looking under the bed to ensure that no burglars or other intruders are lurking. Unfortunately I missed the beginning of the interview, so can't tell you the context in which the term was used. Does this help at all? Christine ************************************************************************** Christine Shuttleworth Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1 25 St Stephen's Avenue London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email 106234.1745@compuserve.com ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:07:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer Rowe Subject: IRS requirements (was Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software) Sonsie wrote: > they must be used more than 50% in your > business. Why not give the kids the old Mac, and keep the new PC exclusively > for your business? Also, remember the "regularly and exclusively used for > business" clause regarding home offices. If your new machine is in your home > office, the kids shouldn't be using it much--if at all. I understand, I suppose, the reason the IRS has these rules, but it really annoys me to have to rearrange my life just to meet their requirements! After all, one of the good things about working at home, as I see it, is being able to have a less compartmentalized life, with all the various things a person does in a day happening in an integrated kind of way. (I read one financial advice book recently which suggested putting tape on the floor to mark out which part of the room is the office. In a case where you want to make sure your workspace is not considered an office, the book suggested putting the cat's litter box in there and taking a picture of it. Honestly!) The answer I am working out for myself is that you *don't* have to conform to the IRS style of living, unless you decide you want to pay less taxes. Perhaps I'm willing to spend a certain amount of money in order to be able to use my computer, my space, my car, etc. more creatively. Or perhaps, now that I've reminded myself I have a choice in the matter, I'll decide to "earn" the money by following the rules. Letting off tax steam, Jenny Rowe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:37:14 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Leonard Will Subject: List of thesaurus management software available I have recently compiled a list of software packages for the compiling and editing of information retrieval thesauri, which I have put on two Web pages. The main list, with suppliers' contact details, is at http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/thessoft.htm and a second list, giving more details of features of standalone packages for DOS and Windows, is at http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/thestabl.htm I have included some mention of thesaurus modules which form part of complete database systems, but have not tried to list these comprehensively. I have contacted all the suppliers I could, so the information should be quite up-to-date, though there are inevitably some gaps. I welcome any corrections or additions, or suggestions for other information which it would be useful to include. Leonard Will -- Willpower Information (Partners: Dr Leonard D Will, Sheena E Will) Information Management Consultants Tel: +44 181 372 0092 27 Calshot Way, Enfield, Middlesex, EN2 7BQ, UK Fax: +44 181 372 0094 L.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk Sheena.Will@Willpower.demon.co.uk ------------------ http://www.willpower.demon.co.uk/ ------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:49:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley Warren Subject: Re: What else do you do? >Good Indexer wrote: >> If I'm too nosy let me know, but what else do you do part-time? I ask >> because I'm a freelance database abstractor/indexer. 1)Mother my two children 2)Serve as board chairman for my son's school 3)Go on a lot of fourth grade field trips 4)Play various instruments in an "early" music group 5)Wish I were reading a lot of books I only read reviews of 6)Practice 'cello which I started 'way too late in life 7)Volunteer at the local historical society to supplement my USDA indexing course 8)Cook supper Shirley Warren Shirleywa@ibm.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:36:50 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: IRS requirements (was Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software) At 11:07 AM 2/13/97 -0500, Jennifer Rowe wrote: >I understand, I suppose, the reason the IRS has these rules, but it really >annoys me to have to rearrange my life just to meet their requirements! Actually, I think taking a sort of wide-view perspective is useful. The IRS is not obsessively watching to be sure you don't use your office telephone for personal calls, or that the $15 coffee pot you bought for office use is depreciated or expensed...or whatever. The likelihood of any of us being audited for anything other than some small error of omission is extremely unlikely, and as someone else has pointed out, if you can explain to the IRS why you did something--even if you did it wrong, unknowingly--you are not going to be carted off to jail or slapped with a huge fine. About the worst thing that will happen if you've made an honest error is that some small additional amount of tax will be assessed, and you may have to pay an even smaller penalty for not having paid it on time. This is not going to keep me up at night, and I hope others will feel the same way. I happen to be one of the lucky ones who has a completely separate studio for an office, with a separate phone line and all the rest. On the face of it, the IRS hasn't got a single complaint with my setup, and I wouldn't mind a bit if my friendly neighborhood IRS agent stopped by for a visit. Nonetheless, there have been times when I've had the cat litter box in here (company was coming), or some other minor violation. Again, I don't stay up nights over these things. We're pretty small potatoes in the IRS's view of things, and any mistakes we make are almost certainly not fraudulent. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:36:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software At 07:40 PM 2/12/97 -0500, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: >What about deducting software? I remember there were disagreements about >this recently on this list. I am told by my Enrolled Agent that I must depreciate (rather than expense) almost all software. The only exception he mentioned to me is tax preparation stuff, which, by its very nature, is only good for one tax year. However, there does seem to be a difference of opinion on this...and I'm sure others will chime in shortly! >We're looking at a Pentium 166. I'm actually inclined to get the MMX chip >now rather than have to upgrade later. The options are overwhelming. Several people who should know have told me that the MMX chip is primarily for very intensive game-playing (that involves numerous overlays and levels and requires 3-D effects), or for people working seriously with such graphics-intensive programs as Photoshop. About half of my work involves desktop publishing using Corel and PageMaker, and from what I hear the MMX chip won't do a thing to optimize my usage of these programs...nor do you need it to run any indexing software I know of. But go ahead and get it if it makes sense to you. We each work differently and have different hardware needs. Whatever you decide to do, I know you'll have a great time playing with your new machine. I couldn't believe the difference when I upgraded from my 486 with 4 megs of RAM to my 133 Pentium with 16 megs! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:39:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: IRS requirements (was Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software) At 10:36 AM 2/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >I happen to be one of the lucky ones who has a completely separate studio >for an office, with a separate phone line and all the rest. On the face of >it, the IRS hasn't got a single complaint with my setup, and I wouldn't mind >a bit if my friendly neighborhood IRS agent stopped by for a visit. >Nonetheless, there have been times when I've had the cat litter box in here >(company was coming), or some other minor violation. Who says a cat isn't part of the office? One is in mine. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:52:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Simple programming languages Can anyone recommend a PC-based programming language suitable for reading and doing some simple text-based operations on an ASCII file? I used to be a mainframe PL/1 programmer and I can envision PL/1 pseudocode for what I want to do, but I can't make head or tail out of more recent languages like C. I have also tried REXX exec language and found it more complex than I need it to be. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:49:45 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: Simple programming languages At 02:52 PM 2/13/97 -0500, you wrote: >Can anyone recommend a PC-based programming language suitable for reading >and doing some simple text-based operations on an ASCII file? > How about using something really simple, like a macro in your wordprocessing program. They can do a lot simply by recording the keystrokes you use. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:39:56 +0000 Reply-To: curr@mnsinc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Cliff Urr Organization: Galaxy Scientific Corp. Subject: Re: Simple programming languages In-Reply-To: <199702131956.OAA11137@mail1.mnsinc.com> Dick, A simple DOS-based program called "Snobol" is made-to-order for the needs you specifiy below, and you'll be doing text-based operations within 30-60 minutes of using it. I don't have the address fo the vendor, but my friend Ernest Perez of the Oregon State Library has contact info. on Snobol. Email him at: perez@opac.osl.state.or.us or eperez@teleport.com and ask him for the info. Let him know Cliff Urr referred you. Hope that helps! > Can anyone recommend a PC-based programming language suitable for reading > and doing some simple text-based operations on an ASCII file? > > I used to be a mainframe PL/1 programmer and I can envision PL/1 pseudocode > for what I want to do, but I can't make head or tail out of more recent > languages like C. I have also tried REXX exec language and found it more > complex than I need it to be. > > Dick > > Cliff Urr Galaxy Scientific Corp. Arlington, VA curr@mnsinc.com 703-413-0464, ext. 242 Personal Home Page: http://www.mnsinc.com/curr/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:40:00 +0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Vann Subject: Re: Simple programming languages In-Reply-To: <199702131956.OAA10393@unix2.nysed.gov> On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Richard Evans wrote: > Can anyone recommend a PC-based programming language suitable for reading > and doing some simple text-based operations on an ASCII file? > > I used to be a mainframe PL/1 programmer and I can envision PL/1 pseudocode > for what I want to do, but I can't make head or tail out of more recent > languages like C. I have also tried REXX exec language and found it more > complex than I need it to be. > > Dick > You may find all the functionality you need in something like the Microsoft Word Macro Language. It's relatively easy to learn and unleashes all the word processor's power. Another option if you need to incorporate these manipulated text files into databases is a database programming language. I use Visual FoxPro, which has a programming language based on Xbase. At least the traditional "non-object-oriented" parts of the language are easy to pick up. In addition, database languages traditionally are strong on text manipulation. William Vann New York State Newspaper Project ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:11:41 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Good Indexer Subject: Re: What do you do? DoMi: What is belay? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Defintion? New Psych Dictionary At 09:57 AM 2/12/97 -0800, tourmi wrote: >Ann Norcross wrote: >> >> Please excuse the interruption; can someone with a medical dictionary >> with psychiatric terms look up "hypervigilance" for me, please? I'm >> looking for a general definition, not necessarily related to PTSD. > > Steve Ross wrote: For a more formal definition, which frankly didn't >do me much good when reading it as I typed it for you, here is an entry >from the Psychiatric Dictionary by Robert J. Campbell, MD, 1981, for >Vigilance (I couldn't find Hypervigilance) There is a more up-to-date version of this dictionary: Psychiatric Dictionary (7th ed.), 1996, by Robert J. Campbell, ISBN 0195102592, $60.00 hardcover. I haven't seen it, but thought that you who index lots of psych. stuff would like to know. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:31:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Taxes, PCs and software (long) In-Reply-To: <199702130631.AA00381@world.std.com> Heather- Thanks for all the great detailed info. I'm still negotiating to find the right chip, video card, and price. Exhausting......... Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:12:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Decreasing fees In-Reply-To: <199702131840.AA03150@world.std.com> Well, I have another dilemma I thought I'd post for opinions (need them soon). Someone I've never worked for, a book production service, called and offered me a developmental editing job. She said that the job would be about $6000-7000 over three months. Sounded good to me. When we met in person on Tuesday, she said it was $5000-6000 but she would have to talk to her boss about the specifics. I'd be paid in fourths and I would keep track of my hours in case I was working at a rate below $25/hour. Today she sent me e-mail saying that the job paid $4600. But I should still keep track of my hours. I was a bit annoyed so I decided to call her in person to work this out. I was very polite because I still want the job and there's a smaller developmental editing job that follows that I also really want. In that conversation she indicated that she expected it to pay $5000 total. When I asked if that was the absolute max in her budget she said there were a few dollars more. So I said I'd think about it. After thinking, I've come up with what I think is a reasonable solution to make us both happy but I want to know what others think. I was considering that I propose to do the job for a flat fee: $5000. That way, I get something other than the minimum she's offering (although significantly less than when I accepted the job) and she still stays under budget. I work pretty fast so I think my hourly rate will be reasonable. Do you think this will affect her inclination to work with me again? I'm really not being hard-nosed. I'm jsut trying to be fair and find a middle ground. I'm not totally comfortable with working for a semi-fixed fee, then billing her for extra if necessary. In general this place doesn't pay all that well. Their indexing rates are $2 - $2.50 per page. If you have an opinion on my "compromise" please let me know as soon as possible. I promised I'd get back to her tomorrow. Thanks in advance, Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:31:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Simple programming languages At 02:49 PM 2/13/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 02:52 PM 2/13/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Can anyone recommend a PC-based programming language suitable for reading >>and doing some simple text-based operations on an ASCII file? >> > > >How about using something really simple, like a macro in your wordprocessing >program. They can do a lot simply by recording the keystrokes you use. Nope. What I want to do has nothing to do with keystrokes. I want to be able to read a series of records in an ASCII file, look for certain characteristics, and make decisions based on the results. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 14:35:50 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Re: Simple programming languages The other suggestions you've gotten are good, but I'll add one more: PERL. It's the traditional language for this kind of application in Unix, and it is now available in DOS implementations as well. I don't know the language, but I've looked at PERL programs, and they look like a cross between C and Basic. A word of warning about Snobol: it is built on a profoundly different paradigm than conventional languages like PL/1. In other words, the pseudocode you visualize will be very difficult to code and will work badly. You'll have to learn to think in Snobol to use the language effectively. I speak as a former Snobol guru who one wrote a Snobol compiler in Snobol. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:40:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Simple programming languages At 03:40 PM 2/13/97 +0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Richard Evans wrote: >You may find all the functionality you need in something like the >Microsoft Word Macro Language. It's relatively easy to learn and >unleashes all the word processor's power. Let me be a little more specific about what I want to do. I want to automate some of the editing tasks I do on Cindex indexes. I want to write a DAT file from Cindex then read the DAT file and look for potential editing problems. For instance, I would like to find instances where I have a primary entry followed by a series of secondary entries that are all on the same page. Such an entry should be condensed to just a primary entry. Another thing I would like to do is check consistency among lower-level headings, much like the SUMMARY function in Cindex that displays just the primary headings. I would also like to extract all subentries, make a sorted list, and automatically compare the list of subentries to all the primaries in the index to verify that I have cross posted everything that needs cross posting. I can't envision any word processing ability that would do this kind of analysis. Dick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Decreasing fees Sarah, I have had friends get reamed by this type of situation. I have lost several hundreds of dollars myself, accepting it because I thought it would lead to more work (specific projects in the offering) and then internal shakeups occurred, my contact left the company and I almost didn't get paid a small bonus I was promised (that didn't come close to making up for the hours). The problem with flat fees in DE work is that they can increase your work load along the way, or your work load can increase sneakily all on its own. Also, especially lately, quite a few people I know have been told that their work was insufficient and that they were going to be docked for rewrites (all writing and DE work) without the chance to correct it themselves (in spite of inadequate guidance to begin with). I have been informed that this is something new sliding its way into the contracts. I personally would rather take a slight decrease in an hourly rate and at least know that I'd be compensated for the hours worked than take such a low flat fee. Think of all the extra hours you could work. Just 10 more hours at $30 is $300. And chances are you can chalk up a lot more than that. Just my $.02. Leslie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:47:44 +0000 Reply-To: curr@mnsinc.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Cliff Urr Organization: Galaxy Scientific Corp. Subject: Re: Simple programming languages In-Reply-To: <199702132235.RAA10760@mail1.mnsinc.com> > Nope. What I want to do has nothing to do with keystrokes. I want to be > able to read a series of records in an ASCII file, look for certain > characteristics, and make decisions based on the results. > Like I said, Snobol is what you're looking for. Cliff Urr Galaxy Scientific Corp. Arlington, VA curr@mnsinc.com 703-413-0464, ext. 242 Personal Home Page: http://www.mnsinc.com/curr/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 15:13:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Simple programming languages At 02:52 PM 2/13/97 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: >Can anyone recommend a PC-based programming language suitable for reading >and doing some simple text-based operations on an ASCII file? > >I used to be a mainframe PL/1 programmer and I can envision PL/1 pseudocode >for what I want to do, but I can't make head or tail out of more recent >languages like C. I have also tried REXX exec language and found it more >complex than I need it to be. > >Dick Dick: I've used WordPerfect 5.1 to write some fairly involved macros: to automatically differentiate all grammatical commas from heading separator (level divider) commas in Macrex .mbk files (in order to facillitate creating FrameMaker-compatible files), for one thing, and to pull up single subheadings behind their main headings when they're followed by _See also_ cross references, for another. WP51 works for this but the macros run much more slowly than the fast utilites programmed in C that come with Macrex I've also run into what seem like buffer limitations in WP51 that can cause occasional macro crashes. For these reasons I think it would be better to use more up-to-date alternatives like the ones William Vann recommended. (I don't know anything about Snobol, which Cliff Urr recommended.) Also, since such programs created in word processors are not stand-alone programs (i.e., they have to be run from within the wordprocessors in which they're created), you may want to opt for a language that will compile programs that can be run on their own. 'be nice to hear what you decide to do. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:26:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mark Wood Subject: Accessing the list archive I am new to the list, and am having a heck of a time trying to pull up past messages from the list archive. I have read the LISTDB MEMO documentation from LISTSERV, but can't seem to submit a job that it will understand. I am trying to access all messages posted since, say, September on the "Macrex v. Cindex" thread. Can anybody help, at least by pointing me to more documentation? TIA, Mark Wood ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:47:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: ordering from Macrex What's the usual turn-around on a shipment from Macrex? I ordered a demo version weeks ago and have seen nothing yet -- just sent off another email about it today. I wouldn't write to Index-L about it, except that someone else complained about this a while back -- I did not hear how it was resolved. I certainly hope this is just a miscommunication issue and doesn't turn into an ongoing problem. Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:16:36 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: ordering from Macrex At 06:47 PM 2/13/97 -0500, Helen Schinske wrote: >What's the usual turn-around on a shipment from Macrex? I ordered a demo >version weeks ago and have seen nothing yet -- just sent off another email >about it today. I wouldn't write to Index-L about it, except that someone >else complained about this a while back -- I did not hear how it was >resolved. I certainly hope this is just a miscommunication issue and doesn't >turn into an ongoing problem. Helen, the Macrex Lady (Gale Rhoades) is on AOL and has been having all sorts of problems receiving email and sending it from there. Perhaps that is part of your problem. I'd also try the snail mail address and/or a personal phone call. Unfortunately, I do not have the address or phone number handy, but I'm sure it's on the original material you ordered from, or somebody else will post it shortly. If not, I'll get back to you myself. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 16:16:34 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: IRS requirements (was Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software) At 02:39 PM 2/13/97 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: >Who says a cat isn't part of the office? One is in mine. Oh, one is in my at the moment...attempting to disengage the phone line from the wall jack. I consider her to be primarily a very large, very furry paperweight. Perhaps that is a legitimate business expense? =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:31:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Simple programming languages I second the motion for SNOBOL. I taught it myself when I was in college to do string manipulations for a citation frequency study. It's strong suit is exactly the type of string manipulation that the pattern matching in CINDEX starts to get into. Given your experience, I don't think it would take too long to pick it up. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services chair, ASI Indexer Services committee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:29:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah Lee Bihlmayer Subject: Re: IRS fur-requirements Sonsie quotes Richard and comments: >>Who says a cat isn't part of the office? One is in mine. > >Oh, one is in my at the moment...attempting to disengage the phone line from >the wall jack. I consider her to be primarily a very large, very furry >paperweight. Perhaps that is a legitimate business expense? Sure it is. Mine is the VP of Customer Relations and her salary is paid in cat food, liver snacks, and toys. Benefits include fully-paid medical care and near-unlimited vacation time. All these aforementioned items are deductible expenses--after all, she's a corporate officer and her executive agreement (signed by pawprint, of course) specifies her compensation package very precisely. Sarah (who is under feline supervision at this very moment, now that you mention it) |Sarah Lee Bihlmayer * Intranet Documentation Specialist | |Site Development * Content Creation * Content Management| | Technical Writing * Developmental Editing * Indexing | | 415-207-4046 * sarahlee@contentmanage.com | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:49:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What do you do? Hi! Belaying is handling the safety rope for a rock climber. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:51:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tom McBroom Subject: Did you work at a company named MicroPro? If so, we know each other! If not, sorry to take your time. Thanks, Tom McBroom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:05:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Ordering from Macrex Gale Rhoades' phone number is 415-756-0821. I would call her and leave a message; she always gets right back to you. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:14:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Frank Stearns Subject: Re: Simple programming languages In-Reply-To: <199702132235.OAA28184@mail.pacifier.com> from "Richard Evans" at Feb 13, 97 05:31:27 pm > > At 02:49 PM 2/13/97 -0600, you wrote: > >At 02:52 PM 2/13/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>Can anyone recommend a PC-based programming language suitable for reading > >>and doing some simple text-based operations on an ASCII file? > >> > > > > > >How about using something really simple, like a macro in your wordprocessing > >program. They can do a lot simply by recording the keystrokes you use. > > Nope. What I want to do has nothing to do with keystrokes. I want to be > able to read a series of records in an ASCII file, look for certain > characteristics, and make decisions based on the results. Try AWK, a UNIX scripting tool primarily designed for string processing. Very fast and powerful yet easy to use. It's part of the standard UNIX distribution. If you know UNIX regular expressions, you're 95% of the way there. With RE-s and the control AWK provides you can do durn near anything with string processing. A number of vendors have ported AWK (also known as "nawk") to PCs and perhaps Macs. The best is from Thompson Automation, at 800/944-0139 Frank + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | Frank Stearns Associates | Developers of Tools for FrameMaker(r): | | franks@fsatools.com | IXgen, FM2A, Programmable Export Kit | | 360/892-3970 fx:360/253-1498 | Now shipping IXgen for Windows!! | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | http://www.pacifier.com/~franks (Email if web page access problems) | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:41:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: ordering from Macrex I requested a Macrex demo last summer (by phone) & never rec'd anything. Got sidetracked and never followed up on it myself. -- Ann Truesdale ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 05:20:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy C. Mulvany" Subject: Simple Programming Language Dick, You might want to consider the Icon Programming Language. It was particularly designed for text processing. It is in the public domain, available for multiple platforms (DOS, Windows, Macintosh, UNIX, VMS, OS/2, etc.). I believe it is related to SNOBOL. You can find info at: http://www.cs.arizona.edu/icon/www/ -nancy Nancy Mulvany ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 06:46:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: Accessing the list archive In-Reply-To: <3303A32B.27FA@epix.net> Mark asked about accessing INDEX-L archives. You can connect to them via a gopher, or via a link from the ASI web page titled "Online Discussion Groups" (http://www.well.com/user/asi/discgrps.htm). I'll include the instructions below for folks without web access. Please let me know if these instructions are inaccurate or confusing, so we can change them on the web page. -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ASI Web Committee: Kari Bero (webmaster) Lori Lathrop Lynn Moncrief Janet Perlman Charlotte Skuster (ASI board representative) Neva Smith Jan Wright (webmaster) Pilar Wyman (chair) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ____________________________________________________________ INDEX-L Archives -- There are two ways to look at the archives: 1.Subscribers can receive archives directly from listserv@bingvmb by sending the following message to that address: index index-l. You will receive a list of available archives, and directions of how to do so. 2.Anyone can view the INDEX-L archives through the library gopher at Georgia Southern University: The GSU gopher is located through a gopher client at gopher.gasou.edu or by telnet to gsvms2.cc.gasou.edu, (follow the trail: /Georgia Southern University/Henderson Library/ Other Organizations/Index-L) Messages are stored here from the start of the listserv in 1992. A WAIS searching program is available to search through all years at once or through a selected year. (on the web site, you just click on the gopher address to be connected to the archives). _____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:50:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Newlin Subject: Re: Did you work at a company named MicroPro? In-Reply-To: <199702140150.RAA12514@mailhost1.BayNetworks.COM> Nope. Where is MicroPro anyway?? I live in California. Nancy - - - - - - - - - - >If so, we know each other! If not, sorry to take your time. > >Thanks, > >Tom McBroom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:08:18 -0600 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Decreasing fees If you think you can get other work that pays better, turn this job down now and concentrate on clients who make clear statements and stick to them. Just my 2 cents. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 13:32:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: What else we do (was: Has the list been down?) In-Reply-To: <199702120502.XAA20085@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Although the question wasn't asked of me, it's a really good question, >and I'm going to try to stimulate a thread about "what else indexers >do." I've found that for many of the members of Twin Cities ASI, it's >important to combine your indexing business with something else. >Thesaurus design, literature searches, copyediting, proofreading, and >translation are among the jobs done by the folks I know. Up until last fall, I was doing copyediting as well as indexing. However, I discovered that the rate of pay for the kind of editing I was doing (i.e., for academic presses) was too low to justify filling up my calendar with editing assignments (thereby having to turn down some very good indexing assignments). I really love copyediting, so it was with some reluctance that I gave it up. I would still edit for "corporate" clients, if I could find some, because I think I could get a fee comparable to indexing, but until then . . . This is an interesting subject, because I've been wondering whether others have been able to make a go of it doing several things. Or do most others do other jobs that pay more than what their hourly rate for indexing works out to? Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:52:01 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Index updates/file conversions A client will be publishing a revised edition which involves adding abut 50 pages of text. The client has the original index -- which I did not create --on disk (in WordPerfect). The question is, if I create the index for the additional pages in Cindex, is there an easy way to merge the old and new files in WordPerfect? Should we convert to original file to Cindex, then re-generate a WordPerfect file? Shall I work with the old index in WordPerfect (ugh!)? If anyone has done something similar to this and has some ideas about the best approach, please let me know ASAP. Since I am currently receiving Index-L in Digest mode, I would appreciate a private reply or cc me privately. That way, I'll get your feedback sooner. THANKS! Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:49:34 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Re: simple programming language Don't write off the WordBasic macro facility. "Macro" is really a misleading description. It's actually a complete implementation of Microsoft Basic with additional statements and functions that let you use all of Word's commands as programming language primitives. In other words, if you can write a "program" for accomplishing your task by editing a Word document, you can write a real program that will accomplish it automatically. In Office 97, WordBasic is replaced by an implementation of Visual Basic for Applications, which is similar, but even more powerful. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:49:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Re: Did you work at a company named MicroPro? At 08:51 PM 2/13/97 -0500, you wrote: >If so, we know each other! If not, sorry to take your time. > >Thanks, Think not. I did some technical writing for MicroPro at one point, but was never an employee. There are at least three other people in the computer industry named Jonathan Sac[hk]s. One is working now for Microsoft; I suspect it was him. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:49:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: Simple Programming Language Icon is not related to Snobol in the sense of being derivative, but it does address the same domain of programming problems. I believe its syntax is derived from Algol, and would look more familiar to a PL/I programmer than Snobol would. I don't know anything about its comparative merits, but it never achieved the popularity that Snobol did. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:54:38 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Sachs Subject: What else we do I've never been a professional indexer, but I've been interested in computer-aided indexing since I was in college. I was writing a user's manual for a program I had developed, and needed an index. I wrote an indexing package as an accessory to the text formatting program I was using. I've written several indexing packages since then, including what I believe was the first embedded indexing package for a microcomputer: DocuMate Plus, for MicroPro's WordStar. At present most of my work is technical writing. I index my own manuals. I hope to develop a GUI-based indexing package some day that combines some of the strong points of traditional embedded and stand-alone indexing programs. At present I lack both the modern programming skills and the time to do so. I'm acquiring the skills now. As for time, we'll see. Jonathan Sachs Sand River Software, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:25:03 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Deducting the costs of PC and software In-Reply-To: <199702130459.WAA18010@mixcom.mixcom.com> >What about deducting software? I remember there were disagreements about >this recently on this list. My accountant says to treat software the same as books (i.e., expense them). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:09:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What else we do? I currently work 1/2-time in arts management, which was my primary career for over twenty years. I also do copyediting (for an OK hourly rate) and edit a national newsletter (for about double my equivalent hourly indexing rate). Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:12:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Keever Subject: Re: ordering from Macrex In-Reply-To: <9702132349.AA30567@beta.tricity.wsu.edu> I ordered a demo from Macrex on August 28, 1996. I sent them an email when I hadn't received anything after several weeks. Gail Rhodes said she was out of town and would check when she got back. I'm still waiting and have had no response to subsequent emails. It's puzzling - I know Macrex has many loyal users and have heard about the great support. I'm not the poster who had trouble previously - I never heard how that was resolved either. Sharon Keever, Librarian Washington Stat University, Tri Cities On Thu, 13 Feb 1997, Helen Schinske wrote: > What's the usual turn-around on a shipment from Macrex? I ordered a demo > version weeks ago and have seen nothing yet -- just sent off another email > about it today. I wouldn't write to Index-L about it, except that someone > else complained about this a while back -- I did not hear how it was > resolved. I certainly hope this is just a miscommunication issue and doesn't > turn into an ongoing problem. > > Helen Schinske > HSchinske@aol.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:55:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Index updates/file conversions Nan wrote: >A client will be publishing a revised edition which involves adding abut 50 >pages of text. The client has the original index -- which I did not create --on >disk (in WordPerfect). The question is, if I create the index for the additional >pages in Cindex, is there an easy way to merge the old and new files in >WordPerfect? Should we convert to original file to Cindex, then re-generate a >WordPerfect file? Shall I work with the old index in WordPerfect (ugh!)? Nan, I've done similar projects both starting from WordPerfect and Word files and I've found it's fairly straightforward to get the file into Cindex. I usually have to play around a bit and spend a few minutes on the phone with Fran but it always works out. I just finished one in which I was given a list of terms they wanted included in a WinWord file but without page numbers. Well the only thing I had to do was place a dummy page reference field in the records, 000, which was preceded by a tab. Then save the file as (I think) "text with line breaks" and all was cool. Also this gives you the benefit of working from the start within the framework of the existing index rather than having to spend a century merging the 2 in the editing process. When the index was done, I did a search on any page references starting with 0 and caught a few that I had failed to assign new page numbers to. That part was a snap. Making the list of terms they gave me, along with a lot I added, resemble a real index could be the topic of a whole book! Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:07:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tom McBroom Subject: Re: Did you work at a company named MicroPro? At 07:50 AM 2/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >Nope. Where is MicroPro anyway?? I live in California. > >Nancy > > >- - - - - - - - - - >>If so, we know each other! If not, sorry to take your time. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Tom McBroom > Weird...I received the following before I got your email. Are you lserve@juno.com (Good Indexer)? Could that person have intercepted my email to you? Anyway, my response is below (and thanks for replying to my email!). MicroPro was in San Rafael, California. Tom >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:08:28 -0500 >To: tommc@ici.net >From: lserve@juno.com (Good Indexer) >Subject: Re: MIcroPro > >I worked with, or rather for, a Jenny Rowe in the early/mid eighties. >MicroPro was the maker of WordStar and I was in tech. support. MicroPro >later changed it's name to WordStar and went out of business a couple of >years ago. > > >Thanks for responding to my email. > >Tom > > >At 10:30 AM 2/14/97 EST, you wrote: >>No. Where is this company? And what did you do for them? Are you a >>programmer? >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:07:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Emily Rader Subject: Re: Did you work at a company named MicroPro? In a message dated 97-02-13 20:53:21 EST, you write: << Subj: Did you work at a company named MicroPro? If so, we know each other! If not, sorry to take your time. Thanks, Tom McBroom >> Nope. Aren't they the ones that produced WordStar originally? No, I work for Osborne/McGraw-Hill computer books. Did you know someone there with the last name Rader? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:09:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tom McBroom Subject: Re: Did you work at a company named MicroPro? Oooppsss! Sorry this went to the whole Index-L list! I thought I was replying to Jennifer Rowe *only*. Tom At 08:49 AM 2/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 08:51 PM 2/13/97 -0500, you wrote: >>If so, we know each other! If not, sorry to take your time. >> >>Thanks, > >Think not. I did some technical writing for MicroPro at one point, but was >never an employee. > >There are at least three other people in the computer industry named >Jonathan Sac[hk]s. One is working now for Microsoft; I suspect it was him. > >Jonathan Sachs >Sand River Software, Inc. > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:23:03 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Wilson Award & Wheatley Medal [long] Hello everyone! Last month, several people posted opinions, including some complaints, about the Wilson Award procedure. Obviously, I cannot contribute to that discussion, but I can tell you something about the procedure in the UK for the Wheatley Medal. I think I can write with some authority, having been involved (at different times!) both as a candidate and as a member of the assessment panel. The Wheatley Medal is one of a group of Reference Awards, for reference books, bibliographies, indexes, etc., made by the Library Association, but the WM is awarded jointly by the LA and the Society of Indexers. It was set up in 1961, and awards have been made in all but seven years since then. A list of the winners will appear in the SI Web Pages, when we eventually get them up and running. Nominations are invited from publishers and librarians, as well as from indexers, and there is no entry fee. Indexers may nominate work either of their own or of other indexers. After the entry forms have been received, the LA requests each publisher concerned to supply a copy of the work nominated (2 or 3 selected volumes, if it is a very large work) and acknowledges receipt of the books. An Assessment Panel is formed, with 3 members nominated by the Society of Indexers, 3 by the Catalogue and Index Group of the LA and 1 representative of the Information Services Group. The chairmanship of the Panel is rotated annually. Members of the Panel inspect the books at the LA headquarters in London, if possible in advance of the Panel Meeting, which occupies a full day, with discussion often continuing during the buffet lunch provided by the LA. The Panel is required to select a shortlist of up to 3 entries from the books nominated (currently twenty plus), provided that each of these indexes meets the exacting criteria. The indexer of the most 'outstanding' index is awarded the Wheatley Medal, together with a prize of two hundred pounds. The names of the shortlisted books and their indexers are publicised nationally well before the presentation ceremony, but the name of the winner is a closely guarded secret until the moment of presentation. This is a fairly recent development, as winners used to be notified fairly soon after the Panel Meeting and sworn to secrecy on penalty of some unspecified horror (probably something like Hanging, Drawing and Quartering in the courtyard of the British Library). It may have been difficult to keep this secret to themselves, but at least they could attend the presentation ceremony with no fear of embarrassment. Books that have not been shortlisted are returned immediately to whoever sent them, whether publisher or, occasionally, an individual. The shortlisted books for all the Reference Awards are displayed at the presentation, for everyone to examine. Afterwards, all the volumes are kept on display at the LA headquarters, and the book winning the Wheatley Medal is eventually placed in the Society of Indexers Library. Because of the nature of the nomination procedure, indexers do not necessarily know that they are candidates. Their names, if known to the LA, are not given to the panel. Notifications are sent only to the indexers who have been shortlisted, as the policy is not to enter into any correspondence concerning the unsuccessful entries. N.B. This exposition has been agreed by Mary Casteleyn, The Library Association Administrator for the Reference Awards. I hope that our North American and Australian friends may find this interesting. Betty Moys Member of the WM Panel for last year and this year (for my sins) ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:36:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DTDIGGS@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What else we do? Professionally: Copyediting, which I -- like Carol -- may have to drop soon, due to low rates. Personally: 1. Read, read, read . . . 2. Dream up and test (with my husband) new recipes, which I would love to move to the "professional" category. 3. Plan and take as many trips as I can afford (ditto # 2 about a switch to "professional"). 4. January - April: attend the thoroughbred horse-racing, where I *try* not to lose too much of my hard-earned pay! 5. April - September: golf, which I still -- after three years -- find amazingly frustrating and trying to my patience. 6. April - September: garden (beginner level). 7. Try out new restaurants. 8. Because of # 7, work out at the gym. 9. Think of all the things I need to do (clean and organize) and want to do (expand my business into other areas, write, decorate my house) but don't have time to do. Teddy DIGGS EDITORIAL SERVICES dtdiggs@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:39:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DBRENNER@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ordering from Macrex I've also had trouble (maybe I'm the person you mention), and my problems are also still unresolved. I ordered a demo last fall and get occasional e-mails from Gail Rhodes (in response to my queries) saying she'll handle the problem shortly, but so far (many, many months later), still no demo. It's really frustrating since I, too, would like to try this program that others seem to like so much. Cindex, by contrast, had their demo to me in days. Diane Brenner P.O. Box 206 Worthington, MA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 13:55:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DBRENNER@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What else we do I also copyedit but my other major chunk of income comes from working as a consultant in environmental toxicology/epidemiology, mainly designing small studies, statistical analyses; questionnaire design; literature searches etc. Other activities include: 1. Looking for more work. 2. Animal-related things (walking and grooming 2 Bouviers, producing the B.O.N.E. [Bouvier Owners of New England] newsletter; feeding demanding cats and birds, etc.) 3. House-related things (trying to renovate/maintain large old New England white elephant farmhouse (5,000 sq. ft.) so I paint and sand and repair and paint and sand etc. etc.); I also garden. 4. Checking in on my far-flung (and grown) kids. 5. Researching investments for an investment club -- I am also now spending quite a bit of time learning to master my new scanner and Photoshop. 6. Read (everything), but most often mysteries and histories. I'm also an avid Babylon 5 fan. Oh, now it looks like I've got to go shovel some snow! Later, Diane Brenner P.O. Box 206 Worthington, MA 01098 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:56:21 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Suomela-Tyrrell Subject: Ordering from Macrex I sent a post to the list back in December about my problems in getting a response from Macrex (4-months of waiting for a response to faxed orders and follow-up letters and phone calls to the local vendor). Gail Rhodes emailed me back and said she would send me a demo free of charge to compensate for all the frustration if I would send her my snail mail address. Six weeks later I still have not received the demo. Helen Tyrrell ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:36:01 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Hughes Subject: Re: What else we do At 01:55 PM 2/14/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Other activities include: I like this thread, I lurked for a while, learning about what you all do, so I guess I should play fair and join in. For us (Alun and Sharon) Indexing is a part time business. Our goal is to switch to full time indexing (and other analytical services) as we approach retirement. We've both worked in basic research (biochemical) for over 20 years. I (sharon) switched to healthcare quality improvement a few years ago. It was a pleasant surprise to learn that my computer skills had uses other than analyzing tons of experimental data. We live in Chicago and enjoy the things a big city has to offer, while saying that 'someday' we will live somewhere much quieter. The kids are grown and there are no grandchildren yet, so we spoil our airedale and our fat cat. Nice meeting all of you. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:43:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: "Reply" versus "Reply to all" I have noticed an increasing number of replies on the Index-l list that perhaps were intended to be personal. This may be an unnoticed result of differences in how "reply" and "reply to all" behave when using the ".edu" address for Index-l versus the ".bitnet" address. For me, with bitnet "reply" went to the person, "reply to all" to the list; with edu, both go to the list. (Before you send a reply, check your To and CC headers.) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:25:10 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Indexing with FrameMaker on a Mac If you live in the DC area and create indexes with FrameMaker on a Mac, please let me know, and I'll pass your name & info on to an interested client. Thanks much! .... Lori ******************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:46:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Tortora Subject: Re: ordering from Macrex Helen, Try to be patient. I had the same thing happen to me and I had sent in an order via the postal service. It took almost 2 weeks for the order to get there. I communicated with Gale by phone and fax and she responded very quickly. You might try that method. Believe me, she was wonderful once I made contact. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:28:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Tortora Subject: Re: What else we do? I am a full time science teacher, guidance counselor. I am just getting started in the indexing business. Sue Tortora Tortora Indexing Services