From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 8-JAN-1998 15:23:11.97 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9712B" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:57:51 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9712B" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Indexing an index? Hi all. I'm in the process of indexing a 42-volume set of technical reports. (This isn't as big a job as it sounds since a cumulative index of these reports was done every 6th volume.) Anyway, my question is, should the sections of this index (the 43th volume) be indexed? Explanation: every index after the first one (including Vols. 12, 18, 24, 30, and 36) have referenced sections from the index _before_, so Vol. 12, indexed the pages for say, the acronyms and symbols from Vol. 6. Also in these index volumes are addenda information, such as meeting minutes, that aren't long enough to put into a volume of its own. This addenda information is included and indexed in the _next_ index volume. Query: Here I have the _last_ index volume, and another piece of addenda information is in it... one on a subject that hasn't been addressed anyplace else in the series and, since there won't be another index volume to reference it, what should I do? Should I: 1. Try to put in the indexing information for this addenda only into the keyword index? 2. Try to put in the indexing information for _all_ sections of this new index volume in the keyword index (wow, this is getting confusing), which would be a nightmare? or 3. Don't include anything from the present index volume (vol. 43) in its keyword index? Sorry if this is confusing. TIA. Elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:41:19 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Noeline Bridge Subject: Indexing opportunity in Ottawa Below my signature is a message regarding contract indexing of the 1999 Canada Year Book, for the attention of qualified Index-L participants. Noeline Bridge BRIDGEWORK nbridge@planet.eon.net 10979 123 Street Edmonton, AB T5M 0E1 Canada phone 403-452-8325 Indexing opportunity in Ottawa Statistics Canada's Communications Division is looking for a contract indexer for the English edition of the 1999 Canada Year Book, the agency's flagship publication and Canada's oldest reference book. The work involves preparing an English-language index from the entire English book (approximately 475 typeset pages) including chapter text, feature articles, charts and graphs, photos and tables. The index shoul= d be about 20 typeset pages and may include approximately 4,500 entries. The work will be performed off-site (on the contractor's premises). Som= e meetings with editorial staff will be required on-site at the Statistic= s Canada complex at Tunney's Pasture, just west of downtown Ottawa. The indexer should live in the Ottawa area and be accessible by phone, fax, and preferably e-mail. The work would take approximately two weeks starting about mid-March, 1998. A prompt turnaround is essential. The contractor is required to submit both paper and electronic copies of the final index. If you are interested in this project, forward your r=E9sum=E9 and thre= e samples of indexing. For each publication, please submit three photocopied pages of the typeset final product. Please send your packag= e before 6 January 1998 to: Laurel Hyatt Production Manager, Canada Year Book, Statistics Canada, Communications Division, R.H. Coats Building, 10th floor, Tunney's Pasture, Ottawa, Ont. K1A 0T6 Phone: (613) 951-1105 Fax: (613) 951-5116 E-mail: hyatlau@statcan.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:10:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: Indexing Videos >On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 you wrote: Does anyone have any info. on indexing videosMaureen, Maureen, I'm a little late catching up on my index-l postings. I offer a video of a 1-day workshop on how to become a freelance indexer -- basic indexing skills and business issues: how to find clients, charge, schedule, etc.. The Web address that was posted to the list is not correct. The correct address is in my sig below. If you want more info, feel free to call me. The video is on sale ($20 off) until Christmas. Susan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:18:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: Indexing Videos -- with address Sorry -- I omitted to include the address in the last posting. Here is the message again. >On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 you wrote: Does anyone have any info. on indexing videosMaureen, I offer a video of a 1-day workshop on how to become a freelance indexer -- basic indexing skills and business issues: how to find clients, charge, schedule, etc.. For more info my Web address is http://www.abbington.com/holbert Also, feel free to call me at 781-893-0514. The video is on sale ($20 off) until Christmas. Sorry for having to repeat, Susan Susan Holbert/Indexing Services -- 617-893-0514 Training: "Basic Skills" video & "User Manuals & Online Help" workshop http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:14:26 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: sylviap@CHADWYCK.COM Subject: Indexing positions available Chadwyck-Healey, Inc., a growing electronic database publishing company, seeks periodical abstractors/indexers for our arts and humanities products. Three FT-equivalent positions available beginning mid-January, 1998. Requirements: Bachelor's Degree. One to two years indexing/abstracting experience. Excellent writing and summarization skills necessary. Willingness to work as part of a team. Interest or experience in arts and humanities publishing and research. Preferred: Experience with Cuadra Star. Familiarity with basic office automation software and database searching. Reading, writing and English translation abilities in any foreign languages, particularly Spanish, Dutch, German, Norwegian or Swedish. At this time, we can only consider applicants from the Greater Washington D.C. area. Please submit cover letter, resume, salary requirements and three references to: Production Manager Chadwyck-Healey, Inc. 1101 King Street, Suite 380 Alexandria, VA 22314 Fax: 703/683-7589 E-mail: jobs@chadwyck.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:12:31 -0700 Reply-To: ollielarue@sprintmail.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Olivia L'Heureux Subject: Dedicated Indexing Software I am a new indexing student currently taking the USDA course considering which software to purchase. I was wondering if experienced indexers could email me personally regarding why they like/dislike either of the "big two" software packages. I truly have no idea which would be better for me. Also, I am considering a newcomer, SKY Index Professional, endorsed by Nancy Mulvaney---if you have an opinion/experience with this product, I would appreciate any help you could give me. If you have some advice that you would rather post to the list that other "newbies" could benefit from, that would be great, too! Thank you very much, Olivia L'Heureux ollielarue@sprintmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 08:56:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software This is a topic I'd like to see discussed on the list, if the "old-timers" don't mind seeing it rehashed. Elizabeth > -----Original Message----- > From: Olivia L'Heureux [SMTP:ollielarue@sprintmail.com] > Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 6:13 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Dedicated Indexing Software > > I am a new indexing student currently taking the USDA course > considering > which software to purchase. I was wondering if experienced indexers > could email me personally regarding why they like/dislike either of > the > "big two" software packages. I truly have no idea which would be > better > for me. Also, I am considering a newcomer, SKY Index Professional, > endorsed by Nancy Mulvaney---if you have an opinion/experience with > this > product, I would appreciate any help you could give me. > > If you have some advice that you would rather post to the list that > other "newbies" could benefit from, that would be great, too! > > Thank you very much, > > Olivia L'Heureux > ollielarue@sprintmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:35:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GregJ Subject: Re: Deadicated Indexing Software please respond to the list--I'd like to hear people's thoughts on software options, too. Thanks! Greg _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Dedicated Indexing Software From: ollielarue@sprintmail.com at Internet Date: 12/8/97 4:12 PM I am a new indexing student currently taking the USDA course considering which software to purchase. I was wondering if experienced indexers could email me personally regarding why they like/dislike either of the "big two" software packages. I truly have no idea which would be better for me. Also, I am considering a newcomer, SKY Index Professional, endorsed by Nancy Mulvaney---if you have an opinion/experience with this product, I would appreciate any help you could give me. If you have some advice that you would rather post to the list that other "newbies" could benefit from, that would be great, too! Thank you very much, Olivia L'Heureux ollielarue@sprintmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:40:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software >This is a topic I'd like to see discussed on the list, if the >"old-timers" don't mind seeing it rehashed. > >Elizabeth Hi, I responded to Olivia's note offlist but with 2 requests, I'll try to share my experience. I've been indexing since '83 (before computers, using 3x5 cards, typewriter & even carbon paper). When Macrex came out it was a wonderful timesaver, but when Kamm Schreiner offered Sky Professional on a prerelease basis I began working with that software & quickly became hooked. It has the features you would expect of Windows software (mouse & keyboard shortcuts; familiar dialog boxes if you use other Windows packages; macro capability; etc.) Its beauty for me is the way in which it has greatly reduced my keystrokes. Once a heading has been entered, it is "remembered" for future use. From that point on all you need is to type enough characters to uniquely identify any one term from another. The software will also adjust to suggest a term first if you continue using one heading more than another. With the Preview pane you can always see your work in index format but there are numerous options for the Data Entry grid order including, as entered; page order; alphabetical or grouped (for those times when you need to see a small subset) I have struggled with tendonitis in my hands for years. I have had a heavy workload over the last several months but find that I'm completing projects without the stiffness & aches that I have grown accustomed to. Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:48:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software Thanks for the info - where can we get more information about Sky Professional? Elizabeth ___________________________________________ Things are not what they seem; nor are they otherwise... > -----Original Message----- > From: Nancy A. Guenther [SMTP:nanguent@CHESCO.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 11:41 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software > > >This is a topic I'd like to see discussed on the list, if the > >"old-timers" don't mind seeing it rehashed. > > > >Elizabeth > > Hi, > > I responded to Olivia's note offlist but with 2 requests, I'll try to > share > my experience. I've been indexing since '83 (before computers, using > 3x5 > cards, typewriter & even carbon paper). When Macrex came out it was a > wonderful timesaver, but when Kamm Schreiner offered Sky Professional > on a > prerelease basis I began working with that software & quickly became > hooked. > > It has the features you would expect of Windows software (mouse & > keyboard > shortcuts; familiar dialog boxes if you use other Windows packages; > macro > capability; etc.) Its beauty for me is the way in which it has greatly > reduced my keystrokes. Once a heading has been entered, it is > "remembered" > for future use. From that point on all you need is to type enough > characters > to uniquely identify any one term from another. The software will also > adjust to suggest a term first if you continue using one heading more > than > another. > > With the Preview pane you can always see your work in index format but > there > are numerous options for the Data Entry grid order including, as > entered; > page order; alphabetical or grouped (for those times when you need to > see a > small subset) > > I have struggled with tendonitis in my hands for years. I have had a > heavy > workload over the last several months but find that I'm completing > projects > without the stiffness & aches that I have grown accustomed to. > > Nancy Guenther > nanguent@chesco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:00:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: eye opener Greeting to all from Brattleboro, Vermont. I'm delighted to be here, though I am having a little homesickness for the Vineyard. Would everyone please update your files with my new address and phone number: Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited 3A Brookside Terrace East Brattleboro, VT 05301 802-254-7601, fax 802-254-7620 But the fax line won't be working until around the 30th. I'm still using the same email address for now but that will probably change soon. I spent yesterday afternoon marketing. Yucccch. I called about 10 publishers, one of whom said, We don't hire indexers. Computers can do all that now. I thank, Okaaay, thanks for your time. But all the rest asked for my resume and samples, and 2 said they were in need right away. We'll see what happens. It really wasn't hard to do, and even was pleasant with some of them. I'll try to do some more today. Unfortunately I sent one fax at 4 this morning when I couldn't sleep (see below) and when I looked at it again just now spotted a medium bad typo. Oh well. Too late now. Maybe they'll miss it. Not bloody likely. Now at the risk of sounding desparate and pathetic, I am totally without income at the moment. Not even the temp agency I signed up with has called me yet, and I have no indexes on board yet, and only have one payment still due to come in. God knows when that will arrive. If any of you have anything you can pass along, or can make some referrals to me, I would be forever grateful, and promise very faithfully to continue to do the same for others. Anyway, that's me bleary eyed and anxiety-ridden. Thanks for listening, as always. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:24:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Shrout Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software In-Reply-To: <199712091650.LAA27740@wdcsun1.usdoj.gov> Elizabeth, You can get more info from Kamm Schreiner's Web site. Someone, possibly even Kamm will chime in with that URL address shortly. I don't have it handy. I have used SkyIndex Professional for my last four indexes for three different publishers. And I am very pleased with it. Kamm is extremely responsive and is working closely with his customers to improve his product. To expand a little on a previous message, Sky Pro has the capability to reload the settings from a previous index AND the capability to pass on the vocabulary terms from a previous index - so I am intending to use the vocabulary from the book I just finished on Oracle on the next book on Oracle that I prepare for the same publisher. For years I have wondered about some way not to have to retype the same terms over and over again, and it looks like Sky Pro will likely provide the possibility for great improvements in productivity, if carefully managed. I will also add that it is a real Windows program and does what you expect a Windows program to do. I no longer have to spend hours reformatting in a word processor to meet publisher requirements. You will be seeing a lot more information about this program in the coming weeks. Based upon my experience with it the past few weeks, I predict that it will continue to evolve and improve rapidly. Richard Shrout, also rshrout@erols.com, richshr@aol.com On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, McCullough, Elizabeth W wrote: > Thanks for the info - where can we get more information about Sky > Professional? > > > Elizabeth > ___________________________________________ > Things are not what they seem; nor are they otherwise... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nancy A. Guenther [SMTP:nanguent@CHESCO.COM] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 11:41 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software > > > > >This is a topic I'd like to see discussed on the list, if the > > >"old-timers" don't mind seeing it rehashed. > > > > > >Elizabeth > > > > Hi, > > > > I responded to Olivia's note offlist but with 2 requests, I'll try to > > share > > my experience. I've been indexing since '83 (before computers, using > > 3x5 > > cards, typewriter & even carbon paper). When Macrex came out it was a > > wonderful timesaver, but when Kamm Schreiner offered Sky Professional > > on a > > prerelease basis I began working with that software & quickly became > > hooked. > > > > It has the features you would expect of Windows software (mouse & > > keyboard > > shortcuts; familiar dialog boxes if you use other Windows packages; > > macro > > capability; etc.) Its beauty for me is the way in which it has greatly > > reduced my keystrokes. Once a heading has been entered, it is > > "remembered" > > for future use. From that point on all you need is to type enough > > characters > > to uniquely identify any one term from another. The software will also > > adjust to suggest a term first if you continue using one heading more > > than > > another. > > > > With the Preview pane you can always see your work in index format but > > there > > are numerous options for the Data Entry grid order including, as > > entered; > > page order; alphabetical or grouped (for those times when you need to > > see a > > small subset) > > > > I have struggled with tendonitis in my hands for years. I have had a > > heavy > > workload over the last several months but find that I'm completing > > projects > > without the stiffness & aches that I have grown accustomed to. > > > > Nancy Guenther > > nanguent@chesco.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:54:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Nancy A. Guenther" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software Sky Software web site is: http://www.sky-software.com The URL is listed on ASI web page for software if there are those who don't have time to check it now. The page specific for Sky Professional is: http://www.sky-software.com/siproinf.htm Nancy Guenther nanguent@chesco.com >Thanks for the info - where can we get more information about Sky >Professional? > > >Elizabeth >___________________________________________ >Things are not what they seem; nor are they otherwise... > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:43:20 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexlady Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Variation on Indexing Software Greetings to all! Many word processing packages contain an "indexing" tool. While this isn't exactly a back-of-the-book-style indexer's "dream tool", it MUST have use, or it wouldn't be included. (Am I being too logical here? ) What type of "indexing" is this a tool for? Indexing the Internet? Indexing medical information? Indexing depositions? Just wondering, Dawn indexlady@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:58:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Variation on Indexing Software Dawn the indexlady asked about the indexing capabilities included with most word processing software. You can certainly use Word or Wordperfect's indexing features to create back-of-book indexes. Not as elegant as using Cindex or Macrex, I imagine (I've never used either), but sufficient to do an adequate job. Using the "built-in" indexing capability of your word processor or page layout program is almost a necessity if you're preparing an index for an on-line help file. If you're a full-time indexer, chances are that a dedicated indexing software package such as Cindex is the best way to go. For the indexing that I've done over the years, though, Microsoft Word and FrameMaker provide all the necessary tools to create an accurate and usable index. John Sullivan Senior Technical Writer Stratus Computer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:19:59 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: ROBJRICH Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software Hi - I have been following, with considerable interest, the ongoing thread about dedicated indexing software. I would like to make a couple of brief comments: It has been my experience that indexers tend to develop "brand loyalty" regarding the indexing software that they use, especially if it is one of the major indexing packages. Indexing is a fairly complex enterprise, and typically it is done alone (perhaps with a cat and a chunk of chocolate, but still basically alone). Our work habits and indexing techniques are inextricably bound with, and develop with, the indexing software that we use. It is a truly synergistic (possibly symbiotic) relationship. We grow into, and with, our indexing software. We become skilful and productive as indexers within the context of our software. And the indexing software is tweaked and refined based on our user feedback. I do not mean that we are hostages to our software. I do mean that the little tricks and techniques that we learn, the productive skills that we hone, the time-savers, the shortcuts, the sanity checks, all are developed within the context of the software. But just as some children learn to speak Mandarin and use chopstocks, and others speak British English and use cutlery, we all become practised in the software environment of our choice. But Mandarin and English, chopsticks and silverware, all are legitimate and highly satisfactory to those who have become adept in, and comfortable with, their use. So asking about indexing software with the idea that somehow one will sift through the answers and find the Grail, the One True Software, is more theological than technical. The major indexing software packages all are solid and useful, and the mature products have been refined and re-refined through user feedback. In short, it really doesn't matter which one you pick, provided that you will take the time and make the effort to become adept in its use. That is not to say that all indexing software is the same. They develop out of different world views (as the philosophers would say, different Weltanschauung). Because we indexers all are different critters, each of us probably would be a bit more comfortable with one or another approach, would simply enjoy working with one package more than with another. But these often tend to be differences in flavor rather than differences in substance. All the major packages work, and work well. But we really can't decide that up front via a posting on Index-L, or by reading a brief review of the software. It is as true for indexing software as it is for relationships: only experience will tell us whether our choice is consonant with the way our personal DNA is wired. And by the time we are really comfortable with one package (or partner), we are unlikely to change and try another just to see. We have become used to our old shoes and do not want to break in a new pair. Now, I happen to have started with, and absolutely swear by (not at), CINDEX. I really believe that it is superb indexing software. I cannot imagine doing what I do without it. During those long nights with intractable indexes, when I wonder if that blizzard of blowing leaves ever will become a coherent index, CINDEX is my comfort and support. I believe that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If the Gestapo were to break down my door at 4:00 a.m. and interrogate me, I would mumble "CINDEX, get CINDEX". And now the new Windows version is said (by those who have seen it) to be even better. I can't wait... But others will say exactly the same thing about MACREX. And that is fine. "Everybody to her own taste," the old lady said when she kissed the cow.... So, CINDEX is good, and MACREX is good. SKY is new and still has to develop a fanatical constituency. I don't know much about it, but Kamm doubtless has a good, respectable, product. What to do? Just Get One. If one is serious about indexing, the price is totally irrelevant. Don't compare nickles and dimes; you will be living with this software more closely than with your spouse or S.O. It will support you (which is more than can be said for many spouses). When the crunch is on you will have only your skill and that software to get you through. Don't worry about trivial differences in the initial cost. The best indexing software marketing ploy I can think of is this: Buy our software and we will give you a free one-year subscription to Chocolate of the Month, and a Starbucks courtesy card. Go forth and prosper...... Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:29:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: US - periodical abstractors/indexers - Greater Washington D.C. area (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:04:37 -0500 From: Terry Kuny To: LIBJOBS@INFOSERV.NLC-BNC.CA Subject: US - periodical abstractors/indexers - Greater Washington D.C. area Chadwyck-Healey, Inc., a growing electronic database publishing company, seeks periodical abstractors/indexers for our arts and humanities products. Three FT-equivalent positions available beginning mid-January, 1998. Requirements: Bachelor's Degree. One to two years indexing/abstracting experience. Excellent writing and summarization skills necessary. Willingness to work as part of a team. Interest or experience in arts and humanities publishing and research. Preferred: Experience with Cuadra Star. Familiarity with basic office automation software and database searching. Reading, writing and English translation abilities in any foreign languages, particularly Spanish, Dutch, German, Norwegian or Swedish. At this time, we can only consider applicants from the Greater Washington D.C. area. Please submit cover letter, resume, salary requirements and three references to: Production Manager Chadwyck-Healey, Inc. 1101 King Street, Suite 380 Alexandria, VA 22314 Fax: 703/683-7589 E-mail: jobs@chadwyck.com *********************************************************************** * LIBJOBS is a free service provided by the International * * Federation of Library Associations and Institutions. * * For individual membership information, contact: ifla.hq@ifla.nl * * * * URL: www.ifla.org * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:24:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Jackson Subject: Re: Variation on Indexing Software Dawn, The indexing tools in Microsoft Word, PageMaker, FrameMaker, etc. are used for embedded indexing. Embedded indexing means putting index codes into the actual electronic text files rather than (or in addition to) working from hard copy. The advantage of embedded indexing is that you don't need to have final page proofs -- or even page numbers at all -- in order to index the book. After the book is folioed, then the index is generated from the coded electronic text files. The computer "knows" what the page numbers are so the indexer doesn't have to worry about inputting them. Hope this helps answer your question! Cheryl Macmillan Publishing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Variation on Indexing Software Author: Indexlady at internet Date: 12/9/97 1:43 PM Greetings to all! Many word processing packages contain an "indexing" tool. While this isn't exactly a back-of-the-book-style indexer's "dream tool", it MUST have use, or it wouldn't be included. (Am I being too logical here? ) What type of "indexing" is this a tool for? Indexing the Internet? Indexing medical information? Indexing depositions? Just wondering, Dawn indexlady@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:41:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software What's comforting here is that there seem to be several good options to choose from. What's a little scary to me is the price involved - once = I decide to go with a particular software package, I won't be switching for a long time. Then again, as several have pointed out, you can do what you need to do with index cards. Is anyone out there using any of the more popular packages on a Window NT machine? Kamm tells me Sky Pro should work on NT, and I like that it's a Windows program rather than DOS. Elizabeth ___________________________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: ROBJRICH [SMTP:ROBJRICH@AOL.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 2:20 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software >=20 > Hi - >=20 > I have been following, with considerable interest, the ongoing thread > about > dedicated indexing software. I would like to make a couple of brief > comments: >=20 > It has been my experience that indexers tend to develop "brand > loyalty" > regarding the indexing software that they use, especially if it is = one > of the > major indexing packages. >=20 > Indexing is a fairly complex enterprise, and typically it is done > alone > (perhaps with a cat and a chunk of chocolate, but still basically > alone). Our > work habits and indexing techniques are inextricably bound with, and > develop > with, the indexing software that we use. It is a truly synergistic > (possibly > symbiotic) relationship. We grow into, and with, our indexing > software. We > become skilful and productive as indexers within the context of our > software. > And the indexing software is tweaked and refined based on our user > feedback. >=20 > I do not mean that we are hostages to our software. I do mean that > the little > tricks and techniques that we learn, the productive skills that we > hone, the > time-savers, the shortcuts, the sanity checks, all are developed > within the > context of the software. >=20 > But just as some children learn to speak Mandarin and use chopstocks, > and > others speak British English and use cutlery, we all become practised > in the > software environment of our choice. But Mandarin and English, > chopsticks and > silverware, all are legitimate and highly satisfactory to those who > have > become adept in, and comfortable with, their use. >=20 > So asking about indexing software with the idea that somehow one will > sift > through the answers and find the Grail, the One True Software, is = more > theological than technical. The major indexing software packages all > are > solid and useful, and the mature products have been refined and > re-refined > through user feedback. In short, it really doesn't matter which one > you pick, > provided that you will take the time and make the effort to become > adept in > its use. >=20 > That is not to say that all indexing software is the same. They > develop out > of different world views (as the philosophers would say, different > Weltanschauung). Because we indexers all are different critters, = each > of us > probably would be a bit more comfortable with one or another = approach, > would > simply enjoy working with one package more than with another. But > these often > tend to be differences in flavor rather than differences in = substance. > All > the major packages work, and work well. >=20 > But we really can't decide that up front via a posting on Index-L, or > by > reading a brief review of the software. It is as true for indexing > software > as it is for relationships: only experience will tell us whether our > choice is > consonant with the way our personal DNA is wired. And by the time we > are > really comfortable with one package (or partner), we are unlikely to > change > and try another just to see. We have become used to our old shoes = and > do not > want to break in a new pair. >=20 > Now, I happen to have started with, and absolutely swear by (not at), > CINDEX. > I really believe that it is superb indexing software. I cannot > imagine doing > what I do without it. During those long nights with intractable > indexes, when > I wonder if that blizzard of blowing leaves ever will become a > coherent index, > CINDEX is my comfort and support. I believe that it is the greatest > thing > since sliced bread. If the Gestapo were to break down my door at = 4:00 > a.m. > and interrogate me, I would mumble "CINDEX, get CINDEX". And now the > new > Windows version is said (by those who have seen it) to be even = better. > I > can't wait... >=20 > But others will say exactly the same thing about MACREX. And that is > fine. > "Everybody to her own taste," the old lady said when she kissed the > cow.... >=20 > So, CINDEX is good, and MACREX is good. SKY is new and still has to > develop a > fanatical constituency. I don't know much about it, but Kamm > doubtless has a > good, respectable, product. What to do? >=20 > Just Get One. If one is serious about indexing, the price is totally > irrelevant. Don't compare nickles and dimes; you will be living with > this > software more closely than with your spouse or S.O. It will support > you > (which is more than can be said for many spouses). When the crunch = is > on you > will have only your skill and that software to get you through. = Don't > worry > about trivial differences in the initial cost. >=20 > The best indexing software marketing ploy I can think of is this: = Buy > our > software and we will give you a free one-year subscription to > Chocolate of the > Month, and a Starbucks courtesy card. >=20 > Go forth and prosper...... >=20 > Bob Richardson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:41:38 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Frank Stearns Subject: Re: Variation on Indexing Software In-Reply-To: <199712091906.LAA12677@mail.pacifier.com> from "John R. Sullivan" at Dec 9, 97 01:58:00 pm > If you're a full-time indexer, chances are that a dedicated indexing software > package such as Cindex is the best way to go. For the indexing that I've done > over the years, though, Microsoft Word and FrameMaker provide all the > necessary tools to create an accurate and usable index. FrameMaker does indeed provide the raw tools to do embedded indexing, but the native interface to get to the index marker system is rather painful and slow. We offer IXgen, a plug-in for FrameMaker that provides a better interface to the marker system. This is not an "automatic indexing system" (though IXgen does have a few of those features), nor will it usurp the intelligence of the indexer. Instead, IXgen simply provides several ways for indexers to more quickly create and polish index markers (and other marker typers) in FrameMaker. For more information, please visit the IXgen portion of our web page (URL below), or feel free to contact us directly. (We are now shipping IXgen for FrameMaker 5.5.) + -- T O L L F R E E ( I n U S A ) : 8 0 0 / 5 6 7 - 6 4 2 1 -- + + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | Frank Stearns Associates | Developers of Tools for FrameMaker(r): | | mailto:franks@fsatools.com | IXgen, FM2A, Programmable Export Kit | | 360/892-3970 fx:360/253-1498 | Now shipping IXgen 5.5 for Windows!! | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + | http://www.pacifier.com/~franks (Email if web page access problems) | + --------------------------------------------------------------------- + ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:35:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chris Blackburn Subject: Indexing software I'm sure many people have replied to Olivia L'Heureux and her question on= software (ollielarue@sprintmail.com) advising her to check ASI's home pag= e or Linda Fetters' *Guide to Indexing Software* for information on dedicat= ed software, or with their own experiences. Personally I usually use Macrex,= and have found it useful for most of my work so far. It is a bit difficul= t to understand, but the manual is very thorough. It is a DOS program but works fine in the DOS window through Windows 95. I believe Cindex is of comparable quality, but haven't seen their new Windows version yet. I don= 't know Sky Index (Windows) either. The main thing I wanted to point out is that Macrex and Cindex may seem outdated to someone familiar with modern program capabilities, but their market is really very small, so small that perhaps it doesn't make extensive retooling worthwhile for them. Macrex and Cindex have both been= around since the mid 1980s (Macrex since 1985 anyway), with updates issue= d every couple of years. Most of their sales are now of updates to existing= users, who get their updates either free or for a very low price. Perhaps= Cindex will do better with its Windows version now. Chris Blackburn cblackburn@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:35:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chris Blackburn Subject: Indexing techniques Does anyone have suggestions for this problem? I feel my existing techniques are inadequate and that there must be a better way of handling= this. A U.S. text is being prepared in a Canadian edition, and I've been asked = to look after the Canadian index, based on the existing U.S. index. There ar= e three indexes: subject (about 3,000 lines in U.S. edition), name and product (each about 1500 lines). Text of U.S. index has been sent to me i= n Word Perfect 6, and I also have proofs for the Canadian version of the text. At present I'm working with page proofs for highlighting (markers of 3 different colours), then moving to electronic files of U.S. index and usi= ng search and replace to call up U.S. page numbers and substitute page numbe= rs where same or related material appears in Canadian edition (occasionally modifying entries), or deleting, or adding entries for new Canadian material. This is very slow (about 4 pages/hour at present for a 600+ pag= e book). Different ideas are welcome (to me at address below, or to the list). Chris Blackburn cblackburn@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:51:28 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Becky Steele/VENTANA Subject: HELP I need to get off this list and I have tried every way I know how and it still won't let me off. what is the proper way to disengage. b ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:28:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Julia B. Marshall" Subject: Re: Indexing techniques In-Reply-To: <199712091953.OAA24341@cap1.CapAccess.org> Dear folks I am indexing a book that has a number of photos in the middle of the book. A couple of my entries have page ranges that extend before and after the photo section. How should I indicate this in the index? Thomas, Irma, 184-192 or Thomas, Irma, 184-187, 191-192 Perhaps some other way would be better? TIA Regards Julia Marshall ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:30:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: HELP Becky Steele/VENTANA wrote: > I need to get off this list and I have tried every way I know how and it still > won't let me off. > > what is the proper way to disengage. > > b Becky - It looks like your e-mail address has changed since you originally subscribed (you didn't used to have that "lgate" bit in there, did you?). Anyway, you can only unsubscribe from the same e-mail address you used when you subscribed. I suggest you contact the INDEX-L list owner, Charlotte Skuster, and ask her if she can remove your name manually. Click on this link to send e-mail to Charlotte: mailto:cskuster@LIBRARY.LIB.BINGHAMTON.EDU (That's cskuster@LIBRARY.LIB.BINGHAMTON.EDU if your browser can't handle the link above.) P.S. Posted and e-mailed to Becky at AOL Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:43:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: HELP At 03:51 PM 12/9/1997 EDT, Becky Steele/VENTANA wrote: >I need to get off this list and I have tried every way I know how and it still won't let me off. > >what is the proper way to disengage. This is as good a time as any to repeat this information. To UNSUBSCRIBE, send the following message to listserv@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu: SIGNOFF index-l Do not sign it or put anything in the subject line. Be sure you send it to the "listserv" address given above, not to the list address (which is the one where you send posts). To go "nomail" (meaning that you are still subscribed but are taken off the daily mail list until further notice), send this message to the listserv address: SET NOMAIL index-l To resubscribe, send: SUBSCRIBE index-l To reset yourself to receive mail, after having gone "nomail," send this: SET MAIL index-l If you think this will be useful in the future, why not print it out, or send a message to the listserv address to get a complete set of instructions for all the commands? INFO REFCARD =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:02:04 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software I can't resist the opportunity to jump in here and plug ASI membership. The newsletter, KeyWords, often includes articles on software. The Sept/Oct issue includes Linda Fetters' "previews" of Cindex for Windows and Sky Pro, and she promises a full review of Cindex for Windows in a future issue. I would assume that the newsletters of the other indexing societies include similar information. One of the suggestions I try to emphasize to people who ask me about getting started in indexing is to join ASI (or the equivalents in other countries, but I've only been asked by Americans so far ;-) ). If they decide they're not interested in pursuing it further, they can just not renew their membership after a year. The amount of information about the career that one can get from the newsletter, the discounted publications, and local and national meetings can't be quantified. OK, down from my soapbox! Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * Lawrence, Kansas ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:26:24 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CGWeaver Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: HELP In a message dated 97-12-09 18:17:43 EST, you write: << Do not sign it or put anything in the subject line. Be sure you send it to the "listserv" address given above, not to the list address (which is the one where you send posts). >> One PS to this: I was really concerned about doing listserv commands when I moved my subscription to AOL simply because (as far as I know) it won't let you send a message without a subject line; and listserv instructions all say to leave the subject blank. I discovered that you can indeed put something in the subject line to keep the AOL server happy; I think I just inserted a zero. What you CAN'T do when talking to a listserv computer is to include anything in the body of the message that isn't part of the command structure. Carolyn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:36:17 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: HELP At 06:26 PM 12/9/1997 EST, CGWeaver wrote: >I discovered that you can indeed put something in the subject line to keep the >AOL server happy; I think I just inserted a zero. What you CAN'T do when >talking to a listserv computer is to include anything in the body of the >message that isn't part of the command structure. Good tip, Carolyn! I'm glad you posted this. I never use my AOL account for any sort of Internet mail, so I'd never run into this problem, but we have plenty of subscribers who do. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:55:44 -0600 Reply-To: lfetters@caller.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Fetters Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software Mary Mortensen wrote: > > I can't resist the opportunity to jump in here and plug ASI membership. The > newsletter, KeyWords, often includes articles on software. The Sept/Oct issue > includes Linda Fetters' "previews" of Cindex for Windows and Sky Pro, and she > promises a full review of Cindex for Windows in a future issue. ----------------- Please note that these previews can also be found on these Web sites: Indexing Research -- http://www.indexres.com SKY Software -- http://www.sky-software.com Linda Fetters lfetters@caller.infi.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:56:25 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jenrowe Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Polish diacritical marks Does anyone know of any nifty program/font/character set that will allow me to add Polish diacritical marks to a Word document? I'm receiving a printed manuscript tomorrow from the author. She says there are a lot of Polish names and place names and that she's had trouble getting the necessary diacritical marks into the text file. Her publisher wants camera-ready copy. A graduate student went through it and added most of them for her before giving up the job and disappearing, and she doesn't know what software he used. How could I reproduce these diacritical marks in the index, and perhaps even help her out with the ones the graduate student couldn't add? I don't know yet exactly what marks are involved, and am so unfamiliar with Polish that I can't even guess what they might be. I am fairly sure, though, that Word isn't going to provide them. Any hints would be much appreciated. Thanks, Jenny Rowe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:22:41 -0700 Reply-To: ollielarue@sprintmail.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Olivia L'Heureux Subject: Evaluating Dedicated Indexing Software I just wanted to make a comment regarding the newbies (like me) and evaluating the dedicated indexing software packages. There is a wealth of information at various websites and from ASI, and it is very helpful. Even if you read about the features of each package, you have no real way to evaluate which would be the best for you, or even which one you would like. That is where the input from the experienced indexers is invaluable. Someone emailed me personally to suggest that I actually SEE the software in use, by visiting fellow indexers in the area. That's a great idea. It's hard for a newbie to get the same experience from demos, because often they are hard to figure out for him/her. Someone else told me that a feature of one of the packages (SKY) helped her tendonitis; this is truly helpful because I have a similar problem. There is no way I would know about or think of this without her input. Probably some newbies need the general, obvious sources if they are uncertain where to begin. The other input from experienced people is SO helpful for those of us who have read all that we can find and still need to know more about how we can best invest our $400-$500. For some people that's a great deal of money! I want to thank everyone who responded to my post both personally and on the list! You are all very generous and I appreciate your insights greatly! Olivia L'Heureux ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 21:40:14 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jenrowe Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Collaboration with author Another question having to do with the author of the manuscript with the Polish names. She is faxing me a list (hand-written) of all the names and place names she wants in the index. I asked, did she want me perhaps to add some more general entries, some conceptual entries, some entries which might not appear verbatim in the text, etc.? She said, well, maybe that would be a good idea, but she'd want to see the terms I proposed adding. We left it at that, but I now wonder: what might be the most efficient way to accomplish this? I'm not going to call her every time I want to make an entry. I'm not eager to fax her a nightly list and conduct a debate about it. What about entering all her terms, printing that, and then adding terms of my choosing, printing the whole, and letting her choose between the two versions? Or would that be so much extra work/time that I should just use her list and forget about adding anything? Her budget is small and if I can't make the additions for very little extra cost, I fear she'll restrict me to her terms only. Help! Jenny Rowe ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:10:49 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Collaboration with author At 09:40 PM 12/9/1997 EST, Jenrowe wrote: >Another question having to do with the author of the manuscript with the >Polish names. She is faxing me a list (hand-written) of all the names and >place names she wants in the index. I asked, did she want me perhaps to add >some more general entries, some conceptual entries, some entries which might >not appear verbatim in the text, etc.? She said, well, maybe that would be a >good idea, but she'd want to see the terms I proposed adding. We left it at >that, but I now wonder: what might be the most efficient way to accomplish >this? I'm not going to call her every time I want to make an entry. I'm not >eager to fax her a nightly list and conduct a debate about it. What about >entering all her terms, printing that, and then adding terms of my choosing, >printing the whole, and letting her choose between the two versions? Or would >that be so much extra work/time that I should just use her list and forget >about adding anything? Her budget is small and if I can't make the additions >for very little extra cost, I fear she'll restrict me to her terms only. On your first question, I don't use Word, but I do use WordPerfect, and all the versions from 5.1 to 8 (the most current) have the ability to add the most arcane diacritical markings you can imagine. Since Word is a competing product and pretty well-thought-of by users, I'd expect that it could do the same thing. HOWEVER...are you expected to add these marks to the manuscript, and include that in the price of the index? If so, I hope you are charging her a really good price because this could be an agonizing job. You really can't manage it with a global search and replace; it seems to me you're going to have to go page by page and essentially mark by mark! Now, on to the other problem you discuss above. I've had authors send me a list of terms, which I have dutifully included in the index, but I do not and will not get into a daily discussion about the proper way to index their books. What I mean to say is that you are the professional indexer, and she is the writer of the book. As long as her wish list is reasonable (i.e., the terms are ones you'd index anyway, or at least borderline), be sure it's included. Otherwise, go ahead and index the book as you would any other professional assignment and don't get into day-to-day discussions or critiques. If she has a beef about your work product at the end of the job, you two can discuss it at that time. Finally, I'm getting the uncomfortable feeling that you've (a) not seen a sample of the ms., so you know what you're getting into, and (b) you've bid the job based on what she says her budget is, and not on how much work is actually involved. You may very well end up doing this job for a buck a page, based on what I've gotten out of your messages so far...which might be good for you if you need the experience and are willing to take a very small payment in exchange for the learning opportunity. I've done jobs like this for close friends, or for some nonprofit group I wanted to support, but not as a regular thing. I consider that almost a donation, not a work for hire. :-) If you possibly can, negotiate a reasonable per-page rate to cover all those dratted diacriticals and the "annoyance factor" of having an author who wants to control the production of the index. Good luck. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 07:10:26 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jenrowe Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Collaboration with author In a message dated 97-12-09 23:24:07 EST, Sonsie writes: > Finally, I'm getting the uncomfortable feeling that you've (a) not seen a > sample of the ms., so you know what you're getting into, and (b) you've bid > the job based on what she says her budget is, and not on how much work is > actually involved. She's faxing me a sample today and I haven't given her a price yet. It may be that a names-and-places-only index will be appropriate for this particular manuscript, which I now realize is edited, not written, by my perhaps-client. It's a Holocaust memoir. >HOWEVER...are you expected to add these marks to the manuscript, and include >that in the price of the index? If so, I hope you are charging her a really >good price because this could be an agonizing job. I told her I would charge an hourly rate, also as yet unspecified, to work on the manuscript. Since the first such worker has already fled, I expect it could indeed be complicated. Even if I don't do the work, I'd like to be able to help her out with some suggestions as to how she can do it herself. Jenny ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:09:43 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dr DCS Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks Jenny, In Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 the diacritical marks are available as part of your character sets and each character has a number. The are added by holding down the Alt key and typing in the correct number. The characters can be inserted into any Windows based word-processing program. IDG Books has a quick reference card containing all the numbers for the characters. Their phone number is 800-762-2974. Good Luck, Dawn The Perfect Page ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 19:40:03 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software In-Reply-To: <199712090528.XAA21873@mixcom.mixcom.com> >I was wondering if experienced indexers >could email me personally regarding why they like/dislike either of the >"big two" software packages. I truly have no idea which would be better >for me. I am currently using Cindex for Mac (it's also available for DOS and Windows), and I love it. It's superfast, it takes very little time to learn the basics, it's not a RAM hog, it's very stable (doesn't crash much), and it does everything but serve coffee (and think). Please let me know whether there's anything more specific you need to know. I have no first-hand experience with Macrex, but I've heard similarly glowing things about it. I'm sure some of the Macrex fans on this list will report in. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:51:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dr DCS Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Welcome Home!!! Lynn, Glad to hear you are at home. I know that the change will do you a world of good. I will try to call tomorrow. If I don't get through in the morning it will be the weekend. I have a meeting tomorrow and an out-of-town appointment on Friday night. Dawn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:53:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Maxine M. Okazaki" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software When I was trying to decide which dedicated indexing program to use, I found that there were many people who loved both Macrex and Cindex. At that time SkyIndex did not exist. I couldn't decide which program I wanted based on other people's opinions. I ended up buying demo programs of both Macrex and Cindex and trying them out. Since these programs are powerful indexing programs with similar capabilities, I eventually picked a program that seemed more suited to my personality...i.e. I found Cindex to be more intuitive and suited the way I work at the computer. However, other people will find Macrex to be more suited to their personality and the way they work.. I would suggest that if you can afford it, to invest in demo versions of the programs and try them out. That way you can decide for yourself. For Cindex, you can apply the cost of the demo program towards the purchase of the full program and I believe the same is true for Macrex. Maxine M. Okazaki Okazaki Consulting mokazaki@acpub.duke.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:12:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Source for quote (Irish literature?) Hello everyone-- While this is not directly related to indexing, in a way it is. For an article about the Society of Indexers Conference in the next Key Words, there is a quote taken from a wall in Dublin (no credit for the quote is given on the wall, hence the reason we do not have the source of the quote): "...that awful deepdown torrent and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire..." and we would like to credit it if we can. We have exhausted our resources on hand and have not been able to find a source for this quote; we are assuming it is Irish in origin. Can any of you Irish literature experts out there help us? Thanks. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:35:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "McCullough, Elizabeth W" Subject: Re: Source for quote (Irish literature?) James Joyce? Elizabeth ___________________________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: Cynthia Bertelsen [SMTP:cbertel@USIT.NET] > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 10:13 AM > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > Subject: Source for quote (Irish literature?) > > there is a quote taken from a wall in Dublin (no credit for the quote > is > given on the wall, hence the reason we do not have the source of the > quote): > > "...that awful deepdown torrent and the sea the sea crimson sometimes > like > fire..." > > and we would like to credit it if we can. > > ***************************************** > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer > cbertel@usit.net > Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html > > ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:34:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks There is a Character Map applet that comes with Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 that will display all of the characters contained in the font that you choose. It then displays the character number so that you can use the keypad to enter it and also gives you the option of copy the character(s) to the clipboard so you can paste them into whatever program you are using. NOTE: The Character Map applet may not have been installed by "default" when installing Windows 3.1 or 95. You may have to run Setup again to install this applet. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner President SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- >Jenny, > >In Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 the diacritical marks are available as part of >your character sets and each character has a number. The are added by holding >down the Alt key and typing in the correct number. The characters can be >inserted into any Windows based word-processing program. > >IDG Books has a quick reference card containing all the numbers for the >characters. Their phone number is 800-762-2974. > >Good Luck, > >Dawn >The Perfect Page ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:47:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Source for quote (Irish literature?) Cynthia Bertelsen asks: Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Shuttleworth Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software I've used Macrex for many years now - it just = gets better and better with successive upgrades. Users' feedback has been taken on board over the years and has resulted in a number of improvements. I positively enjoy using it and couldn't imagine using any other software for indexing. Everyone who has Macrex will have their own favourite features, according to the way they work; I am particularly attached to the Group function, which = allows you to group together all your entries which include the same word or term, so that you can = check consistency of usage. The program is very flexible and you can play with = different styles, changing backwards and forwards = so you can see just how the index is going to look = when printed. At the same time, despite its complexity I have found it easy to learn, and you don't have to master all its functions before you start indexing - you can pick them up as and when you need to use them. Some features you may never need to use, and others will become indispensable. In short, I like it! Christine ************************************************************* Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com or 106234.1745@compuserve.com *************************************************************= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:11:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Source for quote (Irish literature?) Thank you! It's been duly changed and credited. At 10:47 AM 12/10/97 -0500, Christine Shuttleworth wrote: >How nice to be able to answer this! It's from the = > >famous monologue of Molly Bloom right at the end = > >of James Joyce's Ulysses. Actually the quote is = > >not quite right; it should be > >"... O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometime= >s >like fire..." > >It continues: = > > >"and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the = > >Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets >and pink and blue and yellow houses..." > >etc., etc. Molly is reminiscing about Gibraltar. I wonder = > >if anyone has ever tried to index it? > >Christine = > > >************************************************************* >Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services >Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB >Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 >email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com >or 106234.1745@compuserve.com >*************************************************************= > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:12:48 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Collaboration with author At 07:10 AM 12/10/1997 EST, Jenrowe wrote: >She's faxing me a sample today and I haven't given her a price yet. It may be >that a names-and-places-only index will be appropriate for this particular >manuscript, which I now realize is edited, not written, by my perhaps-client. >It's a Holocaust memoir. Oh, good! I had thought you'd actually accepted the job already. It may be that you'd want to do this index anyway, no matter how little you were paid. There are some jobs like that--I've taken a few. >I told her I would charge an hourly rate, also as yet unspecified, to work on >the manuscript. Since the first such worker has already fled, I expect it >could indeed be complicated. Even if I don't do the work, I'd like to be able >to help her out with some suggestions as to how she can do it herself. It looks like several people have provided information on how to access the special character sets, which ought to help either one of you (provided you're using either Windows 3.1 or 95). Good luck! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:19:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Source for quote (Irish literature?) From a James Joyce page (http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~rsauzier/Joyce.html) ... with no title of the work, of course. Will search some more. ". . . . O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometimes like fire and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets and the pink and blue and yellow houses and the rosegardens and the jessamine and geraniums and cactuses and Gibraltar as a girl where I was a Flower of the mountain yes when I put the rose in my hair like the Andalusian girls used or shall I wear a red yes and how he kissed me under the Moorish wall and I thought well as well him as another and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes." McCullough, Elizabeth W wrote: > > James Joyce? > > Elizabeth > ___________________________________________ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cynthia Bertelsen [SMTP:cbertel@USIT.NET] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 10:13 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > Subject: Source for quote (Irish literature?) > > > > there is a quote taken from a wall in Dublin (no credit for the quote > > is > > given on the wall, hence the reason we do not have the source of the > > quote): > > > > "...that awful deepdown torrent and the sea the sea crimson sometimes > > like > > fire..." > > > > and we would like to credit it if we can. > > > > ***************************************** > > > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer > > cbertel@usit.net > > Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html > > > > ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:14:28 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks >From Christine Headley Jenny While you may find some useful diacritical marks in the Windows 95 Character Set, you won't find all the ones used in Polish - I seem to remember a combination of l and -, and other complicated things. What I suggest you do is ask the author for a representative chapter on disk and then try to cut and paste the individual letters that you can't get any other way. Bless the graduate student for the work done and hope he got all of them early on and just left the later chapters, in which case it is the author's problem, not yours. While I would normally like to index concepts, given the likely harrowing nature of the subject-matter and the author's permission not to read it too deeply, I would just go for names... Good luck Christine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:43:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Source for quote (Irish literature?) Got it! Molly Bloom gives that speech, in "Ulysses," Penguin edition, 1992, page 933 (closing words of the book. ... ain't the Internet grand? :-) McCullough, Elizabeth W wrote: > > James Joyce? > > Elizabeth > ___________________________________________ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cynthia Bertelsen [SMTP:cbertel@USIT.NET] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 10:13 AM > > To: Multiple recipients of list INDEX-L > > Subject: Source for quote (Irish literature?) > > > > there is a quote taken from a wall in Dublin (no credit for the quote > > is > > given on the wall, hence the reason we do not have the source of the > > quote): > > > > "...that awful deepdown torrent and the sea the sea crimson sometimes > > like > > fire..." > > > > and we would like to credit it if we can. > > > > ***************************************** > > > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer > > cbertel@usit.net > > Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html > > > > ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Source for quote (Irish literature?) Sorry to have duplicated this answer (and was feeling quite proud of myself, too:-). Christine's post never showed up in my e-mail... and Cynthia's response came after I pushed the send key. Oh well. I found some cool Joyce pages... Ann Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: > > Thank you! It's been duly changed and credited. > > At 10:47 AM 12/10/97 -0500, Christine Shuttleworth wrote: > > >How nice to be able to answer this! It's from the = > > > >famous monologue of Molly Bloom right at the end = > > > >of James Joyce's Ulysses. Actually the quote is = > > > >not quite right; it should be > > > >"... O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometime= > >s > >like fire..." > > > >It continues: = > > > > > >"and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the = > > > >Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets > >and pink and blue and yellow houses..." > > > >etc., etc. Molly is reminiscing about Gibraltar. I wonder = > > > >if anyone has ever tried to index it? > > > >Christine = > > > > > >************************************************************* > >Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services > >Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB > >Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 > >email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com > >or 106234.1745@compuserve.com > >*************************************************************= > > > > > > ***************************************** > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer > cbertel@usit.net > Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html > > ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:49:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks In-Reply-To: <199712100518.XAA17702@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Does anyone know of any nifty program/font/character set that will allow me to >add Polish diacritical marks to a Word document? I'm receiving a printed >manuscript tomorrow from the author. She says there are a lot of Polish names >and place names and that she's had trouble getting the necessary diacritical >marks into the text file. Her publisher wants camera-ready copy. A graduate >student went through it and added most of them for her before giving up the >job and disappearing, and she doesn't know what software he used. > Hi, Jenny. You didn't say what computer platform you're using--DOS or Mac. If you're using Mac, I can give you instructions for creating just about any diacritical. You do it with the overstrike feature in Word. If the DOS version of Word includes an overstrike feature, then perhaps the same instructions would apply. In fact . . . if any of you DOS users out there could verify for me that Word-for-DOS does have this feature, we could test to see whether the instructions work for both, and I could write up the instructions in Key Words. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 09:57:47 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing techniques In-Reply-To: <199712100518.XAA17702@mixcom.mixcom.com> > Thomas, Irma, 184-192 > or > Thomas, Irma, 184-187, 191-192 I would do it the second way, because the first way inaccurately tells the reader that there are 9 pages of discussion about Irma Thomas. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:50:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Source for quote (Irish literature?) Anne- You deserve a medal for your great detective work! How was the quote indexed? Can you send the Web site URL for the Joyce site you found? If so, just send it to me personally. Thanks! At 11:47 AM 12/10/97 -0500, Ann Norcross wrote: >Sorry to have duplicated this answer (and was feeling quite proud of >myself, too:-). Christine's post never showed up in my e-mail... and >Cynthia's response came after I pushed the send key. Oh well. I found >some cool Joyce pages... > >Ann > >Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >> >> Thank you! It's been duly changed and credited. >> >> At 10:47 AM 12/10/97 -0500, Christine Shuttleworth wrote: >> >> >How nice to be able to answer this! It's from the = >> > >> >famous monologue of Molly Bloom right at the end = >> > >> >of James Joyce's Ulysses. Actually the quote is = >> > >> >not quite right; it should be >> > >> >"... O that awful deepdown torrent O and the sea the sea crimson sometime= >> >s >> >like fire..." >> > >> >It continues: = >> > >> > >> >"and the glorious sunsets and the figtrees in the = >> > >> >Alameda gardens yes and all the queer little streets >> >and pink and blue and yellow houses..." >> > >> >etc., etc. Molly is reminiscing about Gibraltar. I wonder = >> > >> >if anyone has ever tried to index it? >> > >> >Christine = >> > >> > >> >************************************************************* >> >Christine Shuttleworth - Indexing and Editorial Services >> >Flat 1, 25 St Stephen's Avenue, London W12 8JB >> >Tel/Fax (+44 181) 749 8797 >> >email ChristineShuttleworth@compuserve.com >> >or 106234.1745@compuserve.com >> >*************************************************************= >> > >> > >> >> ***************************************** >> >> Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer >> cbertel@usit.net >> Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html >> >> ***************************************** > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:59:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chris Blackburn Subject: Indexing techniques and Irish quote Thanks to those who replied to my inquiry about indexing techniques. I ha= ve often used Macrex PNO but wasn't aware of some of the conversion techniqu= es you sent. I had thought I needed to get out of my Macrex perspective but = am rather glad that other indexers are saying "Use Macrex PNO". What a beautiful answer by Christine Shuttleworth to the question about t= he quote from Joyce. Quotes from Ulysses are in neon signs in various places= around Dublin -- this made quite an impression on me when I was there. = Chris Blackburn cblackburn@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:05:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Herr Hallinger Organization: Herr's Indexing Service Subject: Welcome to Vermont Hello Rachel and welcome to Vermont! The Vermont group of indexers will be getting together for lunch on Saturday January 17th at 12:30 p.m. at the Lobster Pot Restaurant in Barre. I will be sending out a mailing on this in the next few days. If anyone is in the Vermont area and would like to be added to my mailing list, please let me know. Linda Hallinger ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:10:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote (Irish literature?)) You wrote: > Anne- > > You deserve a medal for your great detective work! Thank you, thank you :-) > How was the quote indexed? Can you send the Web site URL for the Joyce site > you found? If so, just send it to me personally. I was going to just send this to Cynthia, but I know that lots of people wonder about how to search for stuff on the 'Net. I seem to have pretty good results getting what I need, so I thought I would post this saga of my search for Molly Bloom. It's a good example, I think, because all I had was Cynthia's quote and a vague feeling that it probably was James Joyce. Anyway, here's what I did (I'm sure other people have other methods; this is just what worked for me this time.) I copied a line from the quote that looked unique to me. I used this bit: awful deepdown torrent and the sea and just pasted the whole line into the Search field of Infoseek search engine. That gave me 25,000,000+ hits! The first hit, however, was a James Joyce Web site (http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~rsauzier/Joyce.html) and that's where I found the whole long quote that I posted. Then I went back to my 25million search results page, and tried to narrow the search to find a more exact reference. I typed the word "deepdown" again, and clicked "Search These Results." That still gave me 3,000+ entries, so I added "torrent" and searched the results again. That gave me 15 hits, but none of them seemed to be Joyce. So, then I started a new search, for "James Joyce". That gave 5,000+ Joyce Web sites. Wow! I added "torrent" and "deepdown" to these search results, but didn't find what I wanted. Then I went to my favorite search engine, Northern Light (http://www.nlsearch.com). They are terrific. I put in my long string (awful deepdown torrent and the sea) and the first thing that popped up was a page called "Molly Bloom" with a really cool display of the whole quote--check it out. So, now I knew it was Molly Bloom, and I just needed to find out where *she* came from, then I'd be all done. (To those of you who are groaning over the fact that I didn't know Molly Bloom was a "Ulysses" character: get over it. Yes, I should have known; probably did at one time, but that info seems to have been stored in a memory area that's been purged with age!) So, I did a new search in Northern Light using all these keywords at once: James Joyce Molly Bloom. That gave me a long set of results, the first one of which was a semi-scholarly work on Ulysses (Ah ha! Now I know Molly Bloom is in Ulysses!) and a folder of results called "Joyce, James: work, studies, and biography." I clicked into that folder, scrolled down to find something interesting, found a site called "James Joyce Web Page" (http://www.ozemail.com.au/~caveman/Joyce/) that had a Ulysses section with a link called called "My Favorite Quotes." Found the quote, and the attribution, posted it, and that was that. All I have to say is this: after reading that Molly Bloom quote 4 or 5 times now, I've decided that it is about the sexiest thing I've read in a long, long time. Whew...hot in here, or WHAT? Ann ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:45:50 -0700 Reply-To: masci@amug.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote (Irish literature?)) > and just pasted the whole line into the Search field of Infoseek > search engine. That gave me 25,000,000+ hits! Like the other person was saying about software, '...go with what suits you.' Same can be said with all these search engines. Infoseek (ultra.infoseek.com) is my favorite as I do a lot of research on the internet. (My son has a medical condition) You can use quotes to find an exact match word for word. This is how I locate strings embedded within articles. Yes, the net is great! Diane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:07:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote (Irish literature?)) Diane wrote: > > and just pasted the whole line into the Search field of Infoseek > > search engine. That gave me 25,000,000+ hits! > > Like the other person was saying about software, '...go with what suits > you.' Same can be said with all these search engines. Indeed. I find that different search engines do different things for me. I, too, like Infoseek, mainly because I can narrow a search really easily, by adding more terms and hitting "search these results." That lets me find some very specific topics. I like Northern Light because it catagorizes the results into folders. Whatever works. Ann > Infoseek (ultra.infoseek.com) is my favorite as I do a lot of research > on the internet. (My son has a medical condition) You can use quotes to > find an exact match word for word. This is how I locate strings embedded > within articles. > > Yes, the net is great! > > Diane ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:20:50 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Evaluating Dedicated Indexing Software At the ASI national conference in Seattle in May, there will be workshops about both Macrex and Cindex. For Macrex, at least (and I bet for Cindex too) one of the workshops will be specifically aimed at demonstrating and explaining the program for beginners who are "shopping." (Basic indexing procedures will be reviewed so that novice indexers will know what we're talking about!) Attending both of these workshops would be an excellent way to compare the two programs. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:05:14 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software In-Reply-To: <881769209.1023067.0@listserv.cuny.edu> In message <881769209.1023067.0@listserv.cuny.edu>, Christine Shuttleworth writes >I've used Macrex for many years now - it just = > >gets better and better with successive upgrades. >Users' feedback has been taken on board over the >years and has resulted in a number of improvements. >I positively enjoy using it and couldn't imagine >using any other software for indexing. Everyone >who has Macrex will have their own favourite >features, according to the way they work; I am >particularly attached to the Group function, which = > >allows you to group together all your entries which >include the same word or term, so that you can = > >check consistency of usage. > >The program is very flexible and you can play with = > >different styles, changing backwards and forwards = > >so you can see just how the index is going to look = > >when printed. > >At the same time, despite its complexity I have >found it easy to learn, and you don't have to >master all its functions before you start indexing - >you can pick them up as and when you need to use >them. Some features you may never need to use, and >others will become indispensable. > >In short, I like it! > >Christine > Dear All, I agree - IN SPADES! What I liked best, at the time I was comparing Macrex and Cindex (several years ago) was that Macrex is menu-driven and Cindex was then command-driven. Personally, I much prefer the compilers to do the command-writing for me. With the onset of Windows version(s), this problem will fade away, of course. But I expect to stay with what I know, as no doubt most other people will too. Long live ALL index program compilers! Betty ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:32:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote (Irish literature?)) At 02:10 PM 12/10/1997 -0500, Ann Norcross wrote: >All I have to say is this: after reading that Molly Bloom quote 4 or 5 >times now, I've decided that it is about the sexiest thing I've read >in a long, long time. Whew...hot in here, or WHAT? I loved your search adventure story, Ann. And if this (quoted above) is what you got out of that quote, you've already done 90% of the scholarly work you need to do in order to enjoy the heck out of reading _Ulysses_. One of the reasons it was so shocking in its era was what you pinpoint in your note...it IS sexy, and sexy from a woman's point of view! If you've never read it, this might whet your interest.... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:52:57 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software I am a dedicated Cindex user. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I find it easy and comfortable to use, it meets all my needs, and there is EXCELLENT product support. Who could ask for more? I use the DOS version, but am curious about the Windows version. I run it from Windows 95 and have had no problems with that. I agree with those who suggest you find the software you are most comfortable with. Try the demo versions and consider that the software you will be purchasing is a long-term investment that will be serving you for many years. I think all you newbies will find it worthwhile to check all the demos out, unless you have specific needs that only one of the software packages will meet. Good luck Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:11:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote (Irish literature?)) Sonsie wrote: > At 02:10 PM 12/10/1997 -0500, Ann Norcross wrote: > > >All I have to say is this: after reading that Molly Bloom quote 4 or 5 > >times now, I've decided that it is about the sexiest thing I've read > >in a long, long time. Whew...hot in here, or WHAT? > > I loved your search adventure story, Ann. And if this (quoted above) is what > you got out of that quote, you've already done 90% of the scholarly work you > need to do in order to enjoy the heck out of reading _Ulysses_. One of the > reasons it was so shocking in its era was what you pinpoint in your > note...it IS sexy, and sexy from a woman's point of view! > > If you've never read it, this might whet your interest.... "Whetted" doesn't begin to describe it. The rambling, seemingly-disjointed-but-actually-makes-perfect-sense-to-me style also appeals greatly...I want to read it aloud, with big sweeping gestures and a loud voice and some whispering and a rather fast pace except when it needs to be slow and delicious. Well, whatever. Thanks for the encouragement. I feel a book-buying binge coming on as we speak. :-) And maybe you can help me identify another book that I have only a vague memory of; I'm actually wondering now if it might also be Joyce. Or maybe Philip Roth (I think that's who I mean)? I have a memory of reading a book that contained long scenes describing hot, languid, moist days in a small apartment; lots of food descriptions, lots of fruit, lots of talk about the large smoothness of the woman's body; feeding each other... damn, I really have a clear image in my mind but can't describe it well. I think the man was a bit younger than the woman... she was exotic or unusual to him in some way, but perhaps only for her smooth skin, her white paleness... he went on about those at length. There was much talk of guilt, and painful self-sacrificing love, and selfishness (maybe). The feeling I had reading the Molly Bloom quote was similar to the memory I have of this other book; I read it when I was a bit too young to appreciate it, I think, but it has stuck with me for years. The whole book was not sensual in this way; there was a plot going on, but this really is the only part I can describe with any coherence at all. (Sorry to clutter up the list with this... hoping someone recognizes the rather vague description). Ann ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:15:26 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: woodruff Subject: Re: Indexing techniques In-Reply-To: <881703323.0921902.0@listserv.cuny.edu> Julia Marshall's question about giving locators for material which is interrupted by a photo section is one which I often ponder about. In medical/scientific books, particularly books which are badly edited, there are times when continuous discussion of a topic is interrupted by a full page Figure or Table which relates to text somewhere else in the chapter. My dilemma arises when *accurate* indexing of locators results in an entry such as: Peyronie's disease, 9, 13, 21, 23 Only the indexer is aware that the main coverage of Peyronie's disease is from pages 21-23, interrupted by an unrelated Figure/Table on page 22. From the above, the user is not aware of this, whereas an entry: Peyronie's disease, 9, 13, 21-23 tempts the user to look at page 21 *first*. Once they get to page 21 and start reading, they will realise soon enough that the Figure/Table on p22 isn't relevant, and will skip to page 23. Another possibility is to give pages 21 and 23 in _bold_, but this assumes _bold_ is used throughout the index for principal references, and it may not be that kind of an index. Hey, index-l-ers, what about introducing a new type of page span, such as 21~23 to link these pages in an important, but looser way??! With a note at the top of the index to explain that.."due to poor editing..??" Karin -- Karin Woodruff, Indexer Leicester, UK. e-mail: woodruff@bison.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 12:32:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks In-Reply-To: If you're using a Mac, there's a freeware program called PopChar that puts a little button in the corner of your screen and pops up a full set of whatever typeface you're currently in. You can switch to a different typeface for one character if you need to. You just select the character you want and it drops it in your text at your cursor. It also tells you the keystrokes for each character, and also has a screen that you can enter a word or phrase and then drop that into your text. I use it all the time and could send it to anyone who wants it. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Indexing, editing, proofreading http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:54:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks [and a WP question] WordPerfect 6.0 *may* have the Polish characters that you require. While struggling recently to write a resume I dipped into what I call the FontBox and saw more bizarre and unexpected symbols than I knew existed. I never knew that Greek diacrits are printed at the *side* of the characters. Whether these symbols exist in all fonts I cannot tell you. Access this collection through CTRL+W. CORROLARY QUESTION ABOUT WORDPERFECT: I couldn't test my supposition above since ALL these characters have disappeared from this machine -- I get little empty boxes instead -- but are still functional on my other installation. A document read from a floppy disk shows boxes instead of bullets; and the blasted boxes actually *print* as boxes, so I guess it is not a video problem. Perhaps clearing some space on my hard drive and, blast, reinstalling the program may help. If anyone has experienced this glitch please e-mail me offlist. Cheers, dllt 75711.1537@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:55:32 -0800 Reply-To: ottesen@ccis.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Susan O. Schionning" Organization: Micron Electronics, Inc. Subject: Embedded Indexes Hi all: Are there some clients who will only accept embedded indexes? Thank you, Susan Schionning Ottesen@ccis.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 19:22:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: NEWS: WordPerfect does Polish As a footnote to my previous post, WordPerfect 6.0 indeed contains Polish characters. [I was able to restore to program to life, after all.] In the 15 font sets that appear with the CTRL+W command the Multinational set presents "line" diacrits and other Polish characters that I can identify. Unfortunately, the program only presents a seriffed font, BUT the text *does* change appearance somewhat when I selected several others, and it responded correctly to bolding and italicization. I suspect that you will have to do some typography fiddling and printing to find the results that you need. IMHO not having a sanserif option destroys half the usefulness of this feture. Maybe version 7, which I know nothing about, fixed this. Don't any Europeans use WordPerfect? After all, they invented Helvetica. Cheers, Dave T. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:33:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: NEWS: WordPerfect does Polish At 07:22 PM 12/10/1997 -0500, Dafydd Llwyd Talcott wrote: >Unfortunately, the program only presents a seriffed font, BUT the text >*does* change appearance somewhat when I selected several others, and >it responded correctly to bolding and italicization. I suspect that you >will have to do some typography fiddling and printing to find the results >that you need. IF you're using Ctrl-W to access the special marks, the display does only show in one font...but it acts on whatever font you're using in your document. IOW, if your doc is in Helvetica and you press Ctrl-W and select one of the oddball characters, it will come out quite nicely in Helvetica in your screen doc and also in the printed version. I recently moved up to WP 8.0, which is basically a Windows 95 program, and I love it even more than the older versions (I've been with WP since 4.2 or whatever it was, way back when). I haven't actually checked out how the special characters now display for looking at, but I do know they slip right into the correct font in the document itself. >IMHO not having a sanserif option destroys half the usefulness of this >feture. Maybe version 7, which I know nothing about, fixed this. >Don't any Europeans use WordPerfect? After all, they invented Helvetica. > >Cheers, >Dave T. > > =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:37:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote (Irish literature?)) At 05:11 PM 12/10/1997 -0500, Ann Norcross wrote: >Sonsie wrote: >And maybe you can help me identify another book that I have only a >vague memory of; I'm actually wondering now if it might also be >Joyce. Or maybe Philip Roth (I think that's who I mean)? I have a >memory of reading a book that contained long scenes describing hot, >languid, moist days in a small apartment; lots of food descriptions, >lots of fruit, lots of talk about the large smoothness of the woman's >body; feeding each other... damn, I really have a clear image in my >mind but can't describe it well. I think the man was a bit younger >than the woman... she was exotic or unusual to him in some way, but >perhaps only for her smooth skin, her white paleness... he went on >about those at length. There was much talk of guilt, and painful >self-sacrificing love, and selfishness (maybe). The feeling I had >reading the Molly Bloom quote was similar to the memory I have of this >other book; I read it when I was a bit too young to appreciate it, I >think, but it has stuck with me for years. The whole book was not >sensual in this way; there was a plot going on, but this really is the >only part I can describe with any coherence at all. (Sorry to clutter >up the list with this... hoping someone recognizes the rather vague >description). Well, Philip Roth isn't much of a woman-lover (nor a sensualist, IMO), so I don't think it's he. I did remember similar descriptions of food, exotic women and afternoons of humid love in a small apartment in Henry Miller's _Tropic of Cancer_ (or maybe it was _Tropic of Capricorn_), but those didn't have much of a plot. If somebody else can figure it out, share it with the list. It sounds delicious! :-) =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John and Kara Pekar Subject: Spanish names and companies I'm working on an index which contains a number of Spanish/Mexican names, as well as the names of several Mexican companies. For most of these, I've been able to figure out the element under which to alphabetize the name. (And thank you to those who participated in the last discussion on Spanish names -- I found your comments helpful!) I'd like to double-check my judgement on a few of them, though. Are these correct? I've left out accent marks & tildas since I don't know how to make them in MS Internet Mail. Martinez de Castro, Luis Robles, Cayetano Ramon One name also contains a title: Claudio Lopez Bru, Marques de Comillas (he was a Spanish nobleman.) I think it should be Lopez Bru, Claudio, Marques de Comillas but I'm open to suggestions. Another puzzling name is Patrocinio Gonzalez (governor of Chiapas). At times, he is referred to as Patrocinio Gonzalez; at others, he is called Gonzalez Garrido. Does anyone know offhand which is correct, or why there is a discrepancy? How should this be indexed? I will check with the author or copyeditor, but I'd like to have at least some idea which way to call it. I also have a question about the company names. A number of them begin with the word "Compania". Would it be more correct to alphabetize them under the company name, rather than "Compania"? If so, how do I indicate this to the reader? There are only about 4 of them so far (with half the book done), so I hate to use up headnote space that I may need for other explanations. Or perhaps, since the book is intended for an English-speaking audience, they should simply be alphabetized under "Compania"? Thank you for your help! Kara Pekar jkpekar@crosslink.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:26:37 -0500 Reply-To: mirjanam@videotron.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: mirjana martic Subject: Indexing software capable of generating database file? Hello, could anyone help me find indexing software capable of generating a relational database file? A windows software would solve all my problems :-) Do I dream in color? Mirjana ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:00:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Julia B. Marshall" Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks In-Reply-To: <199712101717.MAA28806@cap1.CapAccess.org> I've tried to get MS Word to do diacritics other than the usual Western European languages (French accents, German umlauts, Spanish tildes etc.) but have had no luck at all. And yes I have checked out the ASCII combinations. Word for Mac does do it with the overstrike feature. I'm interested to see that Wordperfect does it too. Perhaps I should go ahead and buy Wordperfect for my home PC. Regards Julia Marshall ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:02:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: author-invented acronyms I've seen authors invent all kinds of terms before (all part of the beauty/ugliness of language, depending on how you look at it), but here's a new one on me: an acronym that stands for the names of three separate people. As in AMP, which means Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch. The author discusses in various places the AMP critique, which he has also identified as the sociological critique of QALYs (another acronym, but not one he made up). I scratched my head quite a bit over it, but here's what I've come up with: AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique. See QALYs: sociological critique of Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) sociological (AMP) critique of, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 It's unfortunate that the copy editor didn't nix that dual use of "AMP," especially since the second one is of recent vintage. As you may have guessed, the book is an anthology. Anybody got some other clever ways of handling this situation? Please respond publically (on-list) if you don't mind--one of those learning/sharing opportunities. Thanks. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:21:03 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote In a message dated 97-12-10 21:05:44 EST, you write: << I have a memory of reading a book that contained long scenes describing hot, languid, moist days in a small apartment; lots of food descriptions, lots of fruit, lots of talk about the large smoothness of the woman's body; feeding each other.. >> Ann, I think you're talking about Women in Love by D. H. Lawrence. Check it out and tell me if I'm right! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:07:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks At 11:00 PM 12/10/1997 -0500, Julia B. Marshall wrote: >I've tried to get MS Word to do diacritics other than the usual Western >European languages (French accents, German umlauts, Spanish tildes etc.) >but have had no luck at all. And yes I have checked out the ASCII >combinations. Word for Mac does do it with the overstrike >feature. I'm interested to see that Wordperfect does it too. Perhaps I >should go ahead and buy Wordperfect for my home PC. I imagine that word processing software is a little like indexing software...you love your program, you learn it, and you stick to it forever. And each program appeals to different people for different reasons. I can highly recommend WordPerfect, having been a user for about ten years now. I just upgraded to version 8.0 (for Windows 95), and it does just about everything but tie your shoelaces. If you have W95, you will find it almost completely intuitive to learn (it took me less than a day), and packed with features. My current favorite is the highlighting tool, which works exactly like a hand-held highlighting pen (you can even choose your color). It's great for marking passages you need to rework or find again in a hurry (where the search function doesn't quite cut it). It's also got whatever is necessary to translate word-processed material into Internet stuff (you can do a fair amount of Web page publishing with just this software), and a million other useful functions. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:07:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote At 11:21 PM 12/10/1997 EST, DStaub11 wrote: >Ann, I think you're talking about Women in Love by D. H. Lawrence. Check it >out and tell me if I'm right! Good guess! I hadn't even thought of Lawrence, other than Lady Chatterly's Lover, and since I knew that wasn't it, I just forgot all his other stuff. Maybe I will check this out myself... =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:18:21 -0500 Reply-To: Ken Reigner Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ken Reigner Subject: Re: List server for writers In-Reply-To: <19971204.163341.6934.0.nifkev@juno.com> Dear Mr. Broccoli: There are several mailing lists on the Internet aimed at writers. I recently started a mailing list called WIW-L. It is the discussion list of Washington Independent Writers (WIW), a non-profit, professional organization based in Washington, D.C., for independent writers, editors and journalists. This list was set up to provide a place in cyberspace where writers can meet and discuss writing-related issues. To subscribe to WIW-L, send the one-line command SUBscribe WIW-L your-first-name your-last-name in the *body* of an e-mail message to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU using your real name, not a computer ID or e-mail address. Washington Independent Writers also sponsors another list, WIW-JOBS, which is used to distribute postings from the WIW Job Bank. To subscribe to WIW-JOBS or to obtain information about joining Washington Independent Writers, send an e-mail message to the WIW office at WASHWRITER@AOL.COM Include your name, postal and e-mail addresses and area code and telephone numbers. You may also get more information about Washington Independent Writers by conventional mail, telephone, fax or the World Wide Web: Washington Independent Writers 220 Woodward Building 733 Fifteenth Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 USA +1 (202) 347-4973 +1 (202) 628-0298 (fax) http://www.net-writers.org As list owner of WIW-L, I have compiled the following collection of other lists that may be of interest to writers, editors and journalists: CARR-L, Computer-assisted Research and Reporting, is focused on using computers to do better journalism. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe CARR-L your-name"--replacing "your-name" with your real first and last names (not a computer ID or e-mail address) and dropping the quotation marks. @WRITERS is a newsletter about the writing profession. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@SAMURAI.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe A-WRITERS" (without the quotation marks). ASJA CONTRACTS WATCH is a newsletter from the Contracts Committee of the American Society of Journalists and Authors, serving as Contract Information Central for free-lance writers and providing information about the latest terms and negotiations in the world of newspapers and magazines. To subscribe, send e-mail to ASJA-MANAGER@SILVERQUICK.COM. In the subject line, put "CONTRACTS WATCH"; in the *body* of the message, put just the line "JOIN ASJACW-LIST" (without the quotation marks). BLACK ON WHITE (BOWLIST) allows writers to keep in touch, share tips, give advice and offer support. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@MAJORDOMO.LI.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe BOWLIST" (without the quotation marks). BLUEDOG SOCIETE is a list for authors, orators, poets and writers to submit their writing for publishing on the Internet. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@ARMCHAIR.MB.CA, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe BLUEDOGSOCIETE" (without the quotation marks). COMPUTER BOOK PUBLISHING is the focus of a list sponsored by Studio B Productions Inc. The list's subscribers include people in the computer book publishing industry, such as authors, publishers, editors, agents and booksellers. To subscribe, send e-mail to LIST@STUDIOB.COM, and in the *subject* line, write "SUBscribe" (without the quotation marks). COMSERVE is a suite of lists about human communication. For more information, send e-mail to SUPPORT@VM.ITS.RPI.EDU. A human being will respond with more information. COPYEDITING-L is a list for copy editors and other defenders of the English language who want to discuss anything related to editing: sticky style issues; newspaper, technical and other specialized editing; reference books; client relations; Internet resources; electronic editing and software; free-lance issues; and so on. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTPROC@CORNELL.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe COPYEDITING-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). CORREX-L is a list for foreign correspondents based around the world. To subscribe, send e-mail to CORREX-L-REQUEST@TRUE.NET, and in the *body* of the message, put just the word "SUBscribe" (without the quotation marks). CYBER-HACKS is an informal critique, discussion and announcement list for all writers, from the budding neophyte to the seasoned professional. To subscribe, send e-mail to CYBER-HACKS-REQUEST@USERHOME.COM, and in the *body* of the message, include the word "subscribe" in the first line; if you use a signature, add the word "end" on the second line (without the quotation marks). CYBERSCRIBERS is a list of international writers working on cultural writings through cyberspace. The list provides feedback, critique of work, general discussion about writing and a place to get to know other writers. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe CYBERSCRIBERS your-name" (without the quotation marks). DCPUBS is a list for editors, designers, production staff and others in the Washington, D.C., area working on publications who want to discuss anything related to editing. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@ODPHP6.OSOPHS.DHHS.GOV, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe DCPUBS your-name" (without the quotation marks). DOWNHOLD is a list for former United Press International employees (ex-Unipressers) and others to exchange gossip and reminiscence of the UPI wire service. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@LISTBOX.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe DOWNHOLD" (without the quotation marks). ESPRESSO-FICTION, the Caffeine-Induced Avant-Garde Writers' List, welcomes all genres, but focuses on avant-garde fiction. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe ESPRESSO-FICTION your-name" (without the quotation marks). FICTION WRITERS' LIST (FWL) provides a place where fiction writers can share their knowledge, skills and experience in an atmosphere of mutual encouragement and support. To subscribe, send e-mail to WORDPRO@FREEYELLOW.COM, and in the *subject* of the message, put just the line "JOIN.FWL-DAILY" (without the quotation marks). FOI-L, State and Local Freedom of Information Issues, is a place to post information, get FOI questions answered, discuss trends in the law, share success stories, collaborate on getting access to public records and support the public's right to know. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe FOI-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). FREELANCERS is a discussion of free-lance writing, art, photography or illustration as a career choice by professionals and serious students. To subscribe, send a blank e-mail message to TWOSTAR@IDIRECT.COM, and in the *subject line* put "SUBSCRIBE FREELANCERS" (without the quotation marks). HUMORIST is a discussion list for humor writers. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@NIX.KCONLINE.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe HUMORIST" (without the quotation marks). INET-NEWS is a discussion of Internet-accessible current news sources. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERVER@NSTN.CA, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe INET-NEWS your-name" (without the quotation marks). IRE-L is a discussion of investigative reporting and editing techniques and training. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTPROC@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe IRE-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). ISP-REPORTERS is a list for Internet Service Provider (ISP) reporters, journalists and writers for reporting and collaborating with other reporters covering ISP, e-mail, World Wide Web and any Internet-related topics. To subscribe, send e-mail to JOIN-ISP-REPORTERS@SPARKNET.NET, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe ISP-REPORTERS" (without the quotation marks). JOURNET-L is for journalism educators. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@AMERICAN.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe JOURNET-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). MAGWRITE, the Magazine Writers Discussion List, helps published and unpublished free-lance magazine writers find markets, brainstorm on articles and share their thoughts on all aspects of magazine writing. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe MAGWRITE your-name" (without the quotation marks). NERDNOSH is a virtual campfire, where writers from around the world post stories about their lives. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@STORY.NERDNOSH.ORG, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe NERDNOSH" (without the quotation marks). NEWSLIB provides an electronic forum where news librarians, cybrarians, online researchers, media archivists, mass media bibliographers, reporters and journalism educators can discuss topics relevant to their professions. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTPROC@RIPKEN.OIT.UNC.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe NEWSLIB your-name" (without the quotation marks). NICAR-L is a discussion of how to do news investigations and computer-assisted reporting. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTPROC@LISTS.MISSOURI.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe NICAR-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). NPPA-L is the National Press Photographers Association's list. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe NPPA-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). The National Writers Union sponsors two mailing lists, NWU-CHAT and NWU-ISSUES. NWU-CHAT is a general discussion list focusing on the publishing industry, the business and art of writing, the electronic media, the labor movement and NWU internal affairs. In contrast with NWU-ISSUES, NWU-CHAT focuses less on politics and diversity and more on writing for a living and on union activities. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@NWU.ORG, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe NWU-CHAT" (without the quotation marks). NWU-ISSUES is an issues-oriented list, many of whose subscribers are writers of color or are in the lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgendered community. NWU-ISSUES focuses on freedom of speech, copyright law, labor action, national and local elections, challenges of diversity and protecting published work against retaliation. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@NWU.ORG, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe NWU-ISSUES" (without the quotation marks). ONLINE-NEWS covers on-line newspapers and magazines and general journalism. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@PLANETARYNEWS.COM and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe ONLINE-NEWS" (without the quotation marks). PMA-L is the Publishers Marketing Association Forum. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe PMA-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). PRFORUM features discussion of public relations and corporate communications for academics and professionals. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe PRFORUM your-name" (without the quotation marks). SCRIBE-LIST is a resource for writers' issues, including self- publishing and ghostwriting. To subscribe, send e-mail to SCRIBE-LIST-REQUEST@BELLICOSE.COM, and in the *subject line* put "SUBSCRIBE" (without the quotation marks). SEDIT-L, the Scholarly Editing Forum, serves the editors of U.S. literary and documentary editions, including the writings, correspondence and other documents of major American historical figures. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe SEDIT-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). SHOPTALK is a daily newsletter about the television industry, with a focus on TV News. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe SHOPTALK your-name" (without the quotation marks). SPJ-L is the Society of Professional Journalists' list. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe SPJ-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). STUDENTS OF TECHNICAL COMMUNICATION (STC-LIST) is a list for educators and students in technical communication. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@NMT.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the words "SUBscribe STC-LIST" (without the quotation marks). TECHCOMM is a list for technical communicators. To subscribe, send e-mail to LIST@USER.ITCONSULT.CO.UK, and on the first line of the *body* of the message, put just the words "join TECHCOMM" (without the quotation marks). TECHWR-L, the Technical Writers List, is a forum for all technical communication issues. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.OKSTATE.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe TECHWR-L your-name" (without the quotation marks). T-ITWG, the list of the International Technical Writers Group, provides a central reference point for technical writers working around the world. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@TWH.NBG.DE, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe T-ITWG your-name" (without the quotation marks). T-TELCOM is a mailing list for telecommuting and free-lancing technical communicators. To subscribe, send e-mail to T-TELCOM@TWH.MSN.SUB.ORG, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe T-TELCOM" (without the quotation marks). TVIDEA is a forum for television writers, producers, reporters and editors to exchange story ideas. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@INDRA.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe TVIDEA" (without the quotation marks). TVTALK focuses on television discussions, issues and writing. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@INDRA.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe TVTALK" (without the quotation marks). WRITELAB (The Writing Lab) offers bi-weekly fiction writing exercises. After four weeks in WriteLab, you may also apply to one or more of the topics designed to assist the aspiring novelist: PlotLab, SceneLab, DraftLab, NovelsLab and MarketLab. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe WRITELAB your-name" (without the quotation marks). WRITERS is a general discussion list for professional writers and those who aspire to write. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe WRITERS your-name" (without the quotation marks). WRITERS is a list focusing on writing. To subscribe, send e-mail to SERVER@COLA.QIS.NET, and in the *body* of the message, put just the words "JOIN WRITERS" (without the quotation marks). WRITERS-CLUB describes itself as information, motivation and inspiration for every writer. The list features many sites that require access to America Online. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe WRITERS-CLUB your-name" (without the quotation marks). WRITEWAY is a list for beginning and veteran professional writers. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@USERHOME.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe WRITEWAY" (without the quotation marks). WRITINGCHAT is a list where writers can gather and get to know one another, exchange ideas and share their view of the writing life and life in general. To subscribe, send e-mail to MAJORDOMO@BEL-EPA.COM, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe WRITINGCHAT" (without the quotation marks). WRITING WORKSHOP is a collection of 12 mailing lists where writers can critique works in progress, share information and discuss various aspects of writing. Besides a general writing list, the lists include fiction, non-fiction, novels, poetry, scriptwriting, children/young adults, nature, prose/flash fiction, romance, feminist literature and teen writers. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU, and in the *body* of the message, put just the line "SUBscribe WRITERS your-name" (without the quotation marks). To locate other mailing lists of interest, point your World Wide Web browser at Liszt < http://www.liszt.com > or Tile.Net < http://www.tile.net >. I hope you find the information above helpful. If I can be of any further assistance, please let me know. Sincerely, Ken Reigner -- Ken Reigner cbs@digex.net Member, Board of Directors List Owner, WIW-L and WIW-JOBS Chairman, Technology Committee wiw-l-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Washington Independent Writers wiw-jobs-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Kevin & Jennifer A. Broccoli wrote: > Does anyone know of a list server for writers? If so, what is the > E-mail address, and do you know how to subscribe? > > Kevin A. Broccoli ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 02:38:54 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote In a message dated 97-12-11 00:57:02 EST, you write: << << I have a memory of reading a book that contained long scenes describing hot, languid, moist days in a small apartment; lots of food descriptions, lots of fruit, lots of talk about the large smoothness of the woman's body; feeding each other.. >> Ann, I think you're talking about Women in Love by D. H. Lawrence. Check it out and tell me if I'm right! >> I must admit that my first reaction was D. H. Lawrence also. But I couldn't pinpoint it to Women in Love. My advice, follow Do Mi's trail.... Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:38:12 +0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Headley and Adrian Walker-Smith Subject: Bhutanese/Tibetan/Buddhist names and (R) >From Christine Headley I drafted this a week ago, but I think events overtook me before I sent it. If it looks familiar, read no further... Thanks to everyone who gave a hand with Bhutanese names. It turns out that they are mostly two-element and don't invert. When I really got into the text, I discovered that people are usually named after religious personages, and that one doesn't necessarily share *any* element in a name with a spouse or a child (unless you are one of the Wangchuck kings - but there are lots of Wangchucks who aren't related to them!) Names that come first with some people can equally reasonably come second with others. Place names can be twenty characters long and are very easy to mistype... *** Also belated thanks to everyone who made suggestions about my (R) query. I *knew* it was in Word somewhere, but the Help and the book I have didn't list it in a way to help people who don't know what they are looking for... Thanks again to all Christine ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:06:11 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chantal Hamill Organization: Steedman Ramage Subject: headings for nightmares In my dreams at night, I have arguments with myself about choice of headings for what I am dreaming about. Does anybody have the same problem, or I am going quite mad? Chantal Hamill 128 Gowanbank Livingston EH54 6EW Scotland. CH@srws.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:25:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (Was: Source for quote Funny you should mention this... I pulled Women in Love off my bookshelf last week, thinking it might be the book I remembered; haven't really dipped into it to much yet. The other books I was reading at the same time (about age 13-14) were: Lady Chatterly's Lover (of course!), Letting Go (Roth), Call It Sleep (the other Roth (Henry)), Look Homeward Angel, all the James Bond books (Ian Fleming), all the Nero Wolfe books (Rex Stout), tons of science fiction, and tons of murder mysteries. There are a bunch more I can't remember right now, but you get the idea... so, now you know what my parents had on their bookshelves in the early 70's! Thanks for the ideas; I'll let you know if I find the book I'm remembering. Ann LLF EdServ wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-11 00:57:02 EST, you write: > > << > << I have a > memory of reading a book that contained long scenes describing hot, > languid, moist days in a small apartment; lots of food descriptions, > lots of fruit, lots of talk about the large smoothness of the woman's > body; feeding each other.. >> > > Ann, I think you're talking about Women in Love by D. H. Lawrence. Check it > out and tell me if I'm right! > >> > I must admit that my first reaction was D. H. Lawrence also. But I couldn't > pinpoint it to Women in Love. My advice, follow Do Mi's trail.... > Leslie > Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 02:07:33 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks In-Reply-To: <199712110514.XAA09393@mixcom.mixcom.com> >If you're using a Mac, there's a freeware program called PopChar that puts >a little button in the corner of your screen and pops up a full set of >whatever typeface you're currently in. I love PopChar, too, but it doesn't do *all* the complicated diacritics, e.g., the macron in Japanese or some of the dots in Arabic words. That's why I like to keep a few other tricks up my sleeve. I don't know whether it could do all the Polish ones, because I don't know what they are. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:19:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Wright Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks -Reply >I imagine that word processing software is a little like indexing software...you love your program, you learn it, and you stick to it forever. And each program appeals to different people for different reasons.< I agree. I've used both WP and Word, and I strongly prefer WordPerfect. Unfortunately, our company has made the decision that we are all going to go to Word, so I'm learning more about it and learning to live with it. IMHO, WP is a more powerful and versatile tool. Word is absolutely adequate for most basic word processing functions, but WordPerfect is much more sophisticated and much more powerful. It also uses less RAM-- something I discovered when trying to retrieve and do a global search on a very large (800+/- page) document. Word couldn't handle it on my Pentium 133 with 16MB of RAM, but WordPerfect had no problem with it. I have since been upgraded to a 166 with 64MB of RAM, so it's kind of a moot point, but not everyone has a nice company that will buy new computers for them! :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:05:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dr DCS Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks [and a WP question] dllt, Yes, definitely clean your hard drive. At least 10% of the drive should be available at all times to prevent unexpected glitches like the one you describe. Clean your drive and defrag it, then reinstall the program. Word Perfect is notorious for having problems when hard drive space gets tight and parts of files are located all over the map. Dawn The Perfect PAge ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:46:09 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jenrowe Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks and collaboration with author Many, many thanks to all who offered suggestions on how to get the diacriticals. Windows and Character Map did not have what I needed--I'm regretting more than ever my migration from WordPerfect! I found--or rather, my husband found--a shareware Windows add-on called European that supplies marks for 23 languages as a TrueType font or a PostScript/Adobe font. The downloadable version is a Helvetica TrueType font only. I have not been able to reach the creator as yet, but I will post the URL for Oakland Front Desk, where my husband found the program, as soon as he verifies what he thinks it is. The editor/translator (previously known as the author) is allowing me to add entries, though she still wants to have time to review the results before the due date. AND she wants me to print the thing out myself, AND fix the missing diacriticals in the file, AND create a table of contents (and yes, Sonsie, I'm charging for all this!). This list is great. Thanks again. Jenny Rowe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:41:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mark Dempsey Subject: headings for nightmares -Reply "Mad" is a relative term. I have occassionally dreamed in index, going from the general to the specific in sort of a list form. (Not very visual.) These times occurred when I was very busy. Actually, I think this sounds like the response of a healthy mind sorting through the day and refreshing itself during down time. Does anybody else ever dream in index? And are those dreams in color? Mark >>> Chantal Hamill 12/11/97 01:06pm >>> In my dreams at night, I have arguments with myself about choice of headings for what I am dreaming about. Does anybody have the same problem, or I am going quite mad? Chantal Hamill 128 Gowanbank Livingston EH54 6EW Scotland. CH@srws.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:35:34 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bookindexr Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: headings for nightmares In a message dated 97-12-11 05:10:40 EST, you write: << In my dreams at night, I have arguments with myself about choice of headings for what I am dreaming about. Does anybody have the same problem, or I am going quite mad? >> Chantal If this is any consolation to you I have been proofing a typesetting job and corrected errors in my sleep. I actually went to work the next day to find the same errors before they got printed. :) Susan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:28:15 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jan C. Wright" Subject: Re: Embedded Indexes In-Reply-To: <199712110002.TAA29017@camel10.mindspring.com> There are some clients for whom only embedded indexes will work. Usually these folks have tight schedules, and changing text in their documents that do not let them break their pages until it is time to go to print. Or the embedding is needed because translation agencies find it easier to translate an embedded index (or think it is easier - I don't know if it is, myself). Or the embedding is needed because the printed piece's files are going to be converted to an online format, and the client wants the index to be hyperactive links, something that embedded indexing codes can help to happen. So yes, there are clients who must have the indexes embedded. At 03:55 PM 12/10/97 -0800, Susan O. Schionning wrote: >Hi all: > >Are there some clients who will only accept embedded indexes? > >Thank you, > >Susan Schionning >Ottesen@ccis.com > Jan C. Wright Wright Information Indexing Services jancw@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~jancw ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:48:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Polish diacritical marks At 02:07 AM 12/11/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >I love PopChar, too, but it doesn't do *all* the complicated diacritics, >e.g., the macron in Japanese or some of the dots in Arabic words. That's >why I like to keep a few other tricks up my sleeve. I don't know whether it >could do all the Polish ones, because I don't know what they are. Take a look at The Chicago Manual of Style (14th edition) Chapter 9; page 332 has a listing of the special characters for Polish. In fact, each of languages discussed in this chapter has a listing of special characters peculiar to the language. BTW, no one has mentioned Word 97 in this discussion of diacritical marks--I checked against the Polish characters in CMS and they are all there in Word 97's insert symbol function. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net Web page: http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 09:11:55 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joy Thomas Organization: California State University Long Beach, Library Subject: Re: headings for nightmares -Reply When I took shorthand, I dreamed in shorthand. Ditto for Latin, Spanish, French, WordStar, and cataloging (in Library School). Always just assumed that my mind was trying to organize it all. The mind is the most cross-referenced index. -- Joy Thomas Social Sciences Librarian California State University, Long Beach 562 985-7817 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:03:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jenrowe Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Polish diacriticals The newest version of the EUROPEAN font package is downloadable from: http://www.dtcc.edu/~berlin/fonts.html Follow the "multilingual" link. This information is from Howard Berlin, the owner (I haven't tried out the URL myself). He also says he no longer requires a registration fee. Jenny ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:32:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rica Night Subject: Re: headings for nightmares Chantal writes: >In my dreams at night, I have arguments with myself about choice of headings for > what >I am dreaming about. >Does anybody have the same problem, or I am going quite mad? Can't answer your second question, Chantal, but I can assure you that this happens to me, too--particularly when I've worked late into the evening on an index. I find myself staring at things in my dreams, naming them, and thinking of suitable subentries for them, as in, "Hmmmm. 'Dog, large brown, threatening to bite me' or 'Clouds, cumulus, floating by.'" Just an occupational hazard (or should that be "hazard, occupational"? ), I guess. And as my late mother used to say, "It's okay to argue with yourself--as long as you don't *lose* the argument!" Cheers, Rica procrastinating in wintry Toronto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Ms.) Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net * Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer * Seminar Leader: _Networking With Integrity_ and _Romance Meets Reality: Becoming Your Own Boss_ Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT "My own boss: when I talk, *I* listen!" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:55:12 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rebecca Carr Subject: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (book query) This sounds a little like "Last Tango in Paris" to me although I am only familiar with the film. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:18:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (book query) Hmmm, I guess I made the description a little to sexy--definitely not "Tango" or "Tropic of ..." type book; much much less sex, more sensuality, more drama, more plot, more angst :-), etc, etc. Rebecca Carr wrote: > > This sounds a little like "Last Tango in Paris" to me although I am only > familiar with the film. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:27:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: headings for nightmares This dreame indexing reminds me of a line in one of Dorothy Sayers' Lord Peter Whimsey stories (novel of short story, I don't remember). Anyway, at one point Lord Peter makes a humorous remark, and when his listeners seem to take it seriously, Peter says, "Joke, one, officers, for the use of." Made me smile an indexing sort of smile. :-) I have a problem with license plates, billboards, and signs when I'm driving after a long day of final editing on a large index. I look at license plates on the cars ahead of me, or--worse yet--road signs, and my brain tries to read them letter-by-letter instead of word-by-word. Very odd effect, I assure you. Ann (S...T...O... no, no, no, the "O" should come *before* the "S." What's that, officer? Oh... STOP sign. That's very different then.) Rica Night wrote: > > Chantal writes: > > >In my dreams at night, I have arguments with myself about choice of > headings for > > what > >I am dreaming about. > >Does anybody have the same problem, or I am going quite mad? > > Can't answer your second question, Chantal, but I can assure you that this > happens to me, too--particularly when I've worked late into the evening on > an index. I find myself staring at things in my dreams, naming them, and > thinking of suitable subentries for them, as in, "Hmmmm. 'Dog, large brown, > threatening to bite me' or 'Clouds, cumulus, floating by.'" > > Just an occupational hazard (or should that be "hazard, occupational"? ), > I guess. > > And as my late mother used to say, "It's okay to argue with yourself--as > long as you don't *lose* the argument!" > > Cheers, > Rica > procrastinating in wintry Toronto > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > (Ms.) Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net > * Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer > * Seminar Leader: _Networking With Integrity_ and > _Romance Meets Reality: Becoming Your Own Boss_ > Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT > "My own boss: when I talk, *I* listen!" > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:21:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lynn Moncrief Subject: Re: headings for nightmares In-Reply-To: <199712111010.CAA24628@mail-gw.pacbell.net> At 10:06 AM 12/11/97 -0800, Chantal wrote: >In my dreams at night, I have arguments with myself about choice of headings for > what >I am dreaming about. >Does anybody have the same problem, or I am going quite mad? If you are mad, we belong in the same rubber room. I get these dreams too when I've really been crunching a lot on indexing. Then there are the Web surfing hangover dreams where, to get to various parts of the dream, I had to become one with these hypertext links. Oh it's too hard to explain. Glug... glug... gurgle... gurgle... Lynn ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:30:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: headings for nightmares This dream indexing reminds me of a line in one of Dorothy Sayers' Lord Peter Whimsey stories (novel of short story, I don't remember). Anyway, at one point Lord Peter makes a humorous remark, and when his listeners seem to take it seriously, Peter says, "Joke, one, officers, for the use of." Made me smile an indexing sort of smile. :-) I have a problem with license plates, billboards, and signs when I'm driving after a long day of final editing on a large index. I look at license plates on the cars ahead of me, or--worse yet--road signs, and my brain tries to read them letter-by-letter instead of word-by-word. Very odd effect, I assure you. Ann (S...T...O... no, no, no, the "O" should come *before* the "S." What's that, officer? Oh... STOP sign. That's very different then.) Rica Night wrote: > > Chantal writes: > > >In my dreams at night, I have arguments with myself about choice of > headings for > > what > >I am dreaming about. > >Does anybody have the same problem, or I am going quite mad? > > Can't answer your second question, Chantal, but I can assure you that this > happens to me, too--particularly when I've worked late into the evening on > an index. I find myself staring at things in my dreams, naming them, and > thinking of suitable subentries for them, as in, "Hmmmm. 'Dog, large brown, > threatening to bite me' or 'Clouds, cumulus, floating by.'" > > Just an occupational hazard (or should that be "hazard, occupational"? ), > I guess. > > And as my late mother used to say, "It's okay to argue with yourself--as > long as you don't *lose* the argument!" > > Cheers, > Rica > procrastinating in wintry Toronto > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > (Ms.) Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net > * Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer > * Seminar Leader: _Networking With Integrity_ and > _Romance Meets Reality: Becoming Your Own Boss_ > Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT > "My own boss: when I talk, *I* listen!" > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:26:28 LCL Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: headings for nightmares In-Reply-To: <199712111010.CAA17996@pacific.net> Chantal, I too, when I have been learning new skills or am under particular stress, will dream them. When I used to learn a new typesetting system I used to typeset my dreams. I have indexed my dreams many times. Once I remember both typesetting and indexing my dream. The problem was I found mistakes in the text that would affect the index, and I had to write queries to the author -- but they were ^my^ dreams, so I was the author. This set up a cognitive dissonance that was too large to handle and I woke up. I think it's entirely sane, although some mornings I woke up feeling like I'd been at work all night. Are you in a learning curve? Or is there some other source of this phenomenon I'm not familiar with? Victoria vbaker@pacific.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:17:07 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: macrons in Word for Windows fonts Anyone happen to know of any Word for Windows fonts that provide vowels with macrons ("long" diacritical marks)? Thanks, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916 272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 13:17:10 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms At 10:02 PM 12/10/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >I've seen authors invent all kinds of terms before (all part of the >beauty/ugliness of language, depending on how you look at it), but here's a >new one on me: an acronym that stands for the names of three separate >people. As in AMP, which means Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch. The author >discusses in various places the AMP critique, which he has also identified >as the sociological critique of QALYs (another acronym, but not one he made >up). I scratched my head quite a bit over it, but here's what I've come up >with: > >AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 >AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique. See QALYs: sociological critique of >Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) > sociological (AMP) critique of, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 > > >It's unfortunate that the copy editor didn't nix that dual use of "AMP," >especially since the second one is of recent vintage. As you may have >guessed, the book is an anthology. > >Anybody got some other clever ways of handling this situation? Please >respond publically (on-list) if you don't mind--one of those >learning/sharing opportunities. Thanks. Carol: I'd use the same structure you suggest -- with some form of the AMP critique instead of the sociological critique of QALYs as the main term (since that would follow what you describe as the author's usage): AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) sociological critique of. See AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique When acronyms are used as adjectives I like to keep the acronym together with the noun modified, as in "AMP critique (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch critique)", to make the term as readable as possible and to make it immediately clear that the acronym is not being used as a stand-alone term. This format takes up more space in the main heading but can save a lot more space in cross reference targets (in which I don't think the qualifier needs to be included unless the whole term has multiple meanings): AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 AMP critique (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch critique), 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also AMP critique Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also AMP critique Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also AMP critique QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) sociological critique of. See AMP critique Giving one acronym multiple meanings surely can be confusing, but given the author's and the editor's decisions to do so I don't see anything that we as indexers can or should do about it other than to enter the terms as clearly as possible. Cheers back to you!, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916 272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 15:55:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Keever Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software In-Reply-To: <9712102159.AA29975@beta.tricity.wsu.edu> On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, LLF EdServ wrote: > I am a dedicated Cindex user. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I find it > easy and comfortable to use, it meets all my needs, and there is EXCELLENT > product support. In comparing Cindex for Windows with Sky Index, I was concerned that Sky Index offers toll-free customer support only for the first 90 days. I have hade a Cindex dos demo for over a year and have been eagerly waiting for t ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:35:42 -0500 Reply-To: Ken Reigner Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ken Reigner Subject: LISTS> NEW: WIW-L - Washington Independent Writers List WIW-L on LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Washington Independent Writers List WIW-L is the electronic mailing and discussion list of Washington Independent Writers (WIW), a non-profit, professional organization based in Washington, D.C., for independent writers, editors and journalists. This list provides a place in cyberspace where writers can meet and discuss writing-related issues and other topics of professional interest. Although many other subjects can be discussed, this partial list of topics gives some indication of the scope of WIW-L: free-lance writing; job announcements; how to get published; obtaining and working with a literary agent; working with editors; ethics; freedom of expression; copyright; desktop publishing; reviews of new technologies and relevant computer hardware and software; related workshops, seminars and contests; on-line goodies of interest to writers and editors; the on-line news business; the business of writing; narrative techniques in fiction; writing for the health, medical and science markets; writing for technical markets; writing for associations; writing for newspapers; writing for regional magazines; writing for children; writing for government; writing for hire; how to market and promote your work; alternative markets for your work; travel and food writing; family and women's magazines; the corporate and business marketplace; screenwriting; documentary production; editing; style manuals. Archives of WIW-L mail items are kept in weekly files. You may obtain a list of files in the archives by sending the one-line command INDEX WIW-L in the BODY of an e-mail message to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Individual files can then be retrieved by sending the one-line command GET WIW-L filename in the BODY of an e-mail message to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Free e-mail subscriptions can be obtained by sending e-mail to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.MICH.EDU and in the message BODY put just the line: SUBSCRIBE WIW-L your-first-name your-last-name For example: SUBSCRIBE WIW-L Ima Writer (Please use your real name, not a computer ID or e-mail address.) You can unsubscribe by sending e-mail to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.MICH.EDU and in the message BODY put just the line: SIGNOFF WIW-L To post a message on WIW-L, send e-mail to WIW-L@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU If you do not have time to subscribe now, these instructions can be bookmarked at http://WWW.NET-WRITERS.ORG/listserv.htm For help in subscribing or if you have any questions, contact the list owners shown below or Washington Independent Writers, 220 Woodward Building, 733 Fifteenth Street N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005 USA, +1 (202) 347-4973, fax +1 (202) 628-0298, http://WWW.NET-WRITERS.ORG Owners: Ken Reigner CBS@DIGEX.NET Isolde Chapin WASHWRITER@AOL.COM * * * Fellow scribes: Please forgive this cross-posting as we formally launch WIW-L. I hope you will be able to join us on-line and that you will find the list useful. Kindly let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of any further assistance. Sincerely, Ken Reigner -- Ken Reigner cbs@digex.net Member, Board of Directors List Owner, WIW-L and WIW-JOBS Chairman, Technology Committee wiw-l-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Washington Independent Writers wiw-jobs-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:28:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Kamm Y. Schreiner" Subject: Re: Dedicated Indexing Software > >In comparing Cindex for Windows with Sky Index, I was concerned that Sky >Index offers toll-free customer support only for the first 90 days. I >have hade a Cindex dos demo for over a year and have been eagerly waiting >for t To clarify our support policy: SKY Index Professional Edition comes with toll free technical support for the first 90 days. After the first 90 days, support is free through a toll call. Sincerely, Kamm Schreiner President SKY Software 4675 York Rd #1 Lineboro, MD 21102 email: kamm@sky-software.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:34:46 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Joel S. Berson" Subject: "Part time" and time? I've been offered a part-time position in indexing, and would like advice on the "time" part of it. The publisher's demands vary, so there will be peak periods and troughs. If this were freelancing, I would expect to be able to accept or decline jobs, depending on my other jobs, vacation plans, etc. But as an employee, how would I agree on this with my employer? A guaranteed minimum time (and pay) per week? An agreed maximum? How would we negotiate time (and pay) beyond the maximum? Would I be able to decline assignments if I had a conflicting job? I will ask the employer these questions before deciding whether to accept, but any clues on approach or responses would be appreciated. Are there any other factors I should be concerned about, as a part-time employee versus freelancing? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:02:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elaine R. Firestone" Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199712120510.AAA09125@calval-2.gsfc.nasa.gov> At 10:02 PM 12/10/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: >>I scratched my head quite a bit over it, but here's what I've come up >>with: >> >>AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 >>AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique. See QALYs: sociological >>critique of >>Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >>Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >>Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >>QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) >> sociological (AMP) critique of, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 To which Michael Brackney replied: >Carol: > >I'd use the same structure you suggest -- with some form of the AMP critique >instead of the sociological critique of QALYs as the main term (since that >would follow what you describe as the author's usage): > > >AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 >AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 >Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique >Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique >Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique >QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) > sociological critique of. See AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique I have to agree wholeheartedly with Michael, Carol. His method cuts down on the amount of cross-referencing needed. I deal with this same problem of multiple meanings for acronyms, and I handle it similar to Michael's method. Elaine Elaine R. Firestone, ELS elaine@calval.gsfc.nasa.gov elaine@seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:39:47 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms << AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique. See QALYs: sociological critique of Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) sociological (AMP) critique of, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 >> Carol--this looks pretty good to me. I've actually run into quite a few instances of concepts named after multiple people in just this way (not always with an acronym)--usually in psychology or sociology. It's good to know whether it's an author-invented acronym or an old field-accepted one, but in practice it doesn't make that much difference in my indexing. If the author used AMP critique consistently I might use that as the main heading with a see reference from QALYs or whatever. But I wouldn't consider the acronym less than legitimate because it stands for three people. I would do just as you have done and put the spelled-out names after the acronym in parentheses, and index the actual people where they're talked about, with see references. And I also wouldn't worry about two acronyms that stand for different phrases in the same book--also not that uncommon. Good job! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:56:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rica Night Subject: Re: Portrait of the Indexer as a Searcher (book query) >Hmmm, I guess I made the description a little to sexy--definitely not >"Tango" or "Tropic of ..." type book; much much less sex, more >sensuality, more drama, more plot, more angst :-), etc, etc. Something by John Updike, maybe? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Ms.) Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net * Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer * Seminar Leader: _Networking With Integrity_ and _Romance Meets Reality: Becoming Your Own Boss_ Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT "My own boss: when I talk, *I* listen!" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:56:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rica Night Subject: Re: headings for nightmares Victoria writes: > When I used to learn a new typesetting system I used to >typeset my dreams. I have indexed my dreams many times. Once I remember >both typesetting and indexing my dream. The problem was I found mistakes >in the text that would affect the index, and I had to write queries to the >author -- but they were ^my^ dreams, so I was the author. This set up a >cognitive dissonance that was too large to handle and I woke up. This reminded me of the following joke: An accountant is having a hard time sleeping so he sees his doctor about the problem and says, "Doctor, I just can't get to sleep at night!" "Well," suggests his doctor, "have you tried counting sheep?" "That's the problem -- I make a mistake and spend the next six hours trying to find it!" I've been there, too! Guess it gives new meaning to the declaration that indexing is a "dream job"! --Rica >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Ms.) Rica Night rnight@inforamp.net * Freelance Copyeditor, Proofreader, Indexer * Seminar Leader: _Networking With Integrity_ and _Romance Meets Reality: Becoming Your Own Boss_ Toronto, Canada 416-463-EDIT "My own boss: when I talk, *I* listen!" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:50:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: US - Indexer/Abstractor/Editor - New York, NY (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:25:53 -0500 From: Terry Kuny To: LIBJOBS@INFOSERV.NLC-BNC.CA Subject: US - Indexer/Abstractor/Editor - New York, NY INDEXER/ABSTRACTER/EDITOR PAIS--Public Affairs Information Service, Inc., publishers of bibliographic indexes to the literature of social sciences and public policy, is seeking to fill an Assistant Editor position. This position requires experience indexing, abstracting, and editing; an MLS degree; database and Internet searching; knowledge of computer word processing; fluent English; a background in the social sciences or international affairs; and reading knowledge of one of French, German, or Spanish. Outstanding health and fringe benefits. Please send or fax resume and salary requirements to: PAIS C. Korvin, Editor 521 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Fax: (212) 643-2848 E-mail: inquiries@pais.org FREELANCE ABSTRACTORS PAIS--Public Affairs Information Service, Inc.--Public policy/social sciences/international affairs bibliographic database, is seeking freelance abstracters. Able to produce minimum of 50 abstracts per month from English, French, German, or Spanish language periodicals. Must have PC with CD-ROM drive. PAIS template software supplied. Fee paid on per item abstracting basis. Send resume or contact: requirements to: PAIS T. Friel, Associate Editor 521 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Phone: (212) 736-4161 Fax: (212) 643-2848 E-mail: inquiries@pais.org *********************************************************************** * LIBJOBS is a free service provided by the International * * Federation of Library Associations and Institutions. * * For individual membership information, contact: ifla.hq@ifla.nl * * * * URL: www.ifla.org * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ken Reigner Subject: CORRECTION--NEW: WIW-L - Washington Independent Writers List NOTE CORRECTION OF TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR ON SUBSCRIPTION INSTRUCTIONS BELOW: WIW-L on LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Washington Independent Writers List WIW-L is the electronic mailing and discussion list of Washington Independent Writers (WIW), a non-profit, professional organization based in Washington, D.C., for independent writers, editors and journalists. This list provides a place in cyberspace where writers can meet and discuss writing-related issues and other topics of professional interest. Although many other subjects can be discussed, this partial list of topics gives some indication of the scope of WIW-L: free-lance writing; job announcements; how to get published; obtaining and working with a literary agent; working with editors; ethics; freedom of expression; copyright; desktop publishing; reviews of new technologies and relevant computer hardware and software; related workshops, seminars and contests; on-line goodies of interest to writers and editors; the on-line news business; the business of writing; narrative techniques in fiction; writing for the health, medical and science markets; writing for technical markets; writing for associations; writing for newspapers; writing for regional magazines; writing for children; writing for government; writing for hire; how to market and promote your work; alternative markets for your work; travel and food writing; family and women's magazines; the corporate and business marketplace; screenwriting; documentary production; editing; style manuals. Archives of WIW-L mail items are kept in weekly files. You may obtain a list of files in the archives by sending the one-line command INDEX WIW-L in the BODY of an e-mail message to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Individual files can then be retrieved by sending the one-line command GET WIW-L filename in the BODY of an e-mail message to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU Free e-mail subscriptions can be obtained by sending e-mail to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU and in the message BODY put just the line: SUBSCRIBE WIW-L your-first-name your-last-name For example: SUBSCRIBE WIW-L Ima Writer (Please use your real name, not a computer ID or e-mail address.) You can unsubscribe by sending e-mail to LISTSERV@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU and in the message BODY put just the line: SIGNOFF WIW-L To post a message on WIW-L, send e-mail to WIW-L@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU If you do not have time to subscribe now, these instructions can be bookmarked at http://WWW.NET-WRITERS.ORG/listserv.htm For help in subscribing or if you have any questions, contact the list owners shown below or Washington Independent Writers, 220 Woodward Building, 733 Fifteenth Street N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005 USA, +1 (202) 347-4973, fax +1 (202) 628-0298, http://WWW.NET-WRITERS.ORG Owners: Ken Reigner CBS@DIGEX.NET Isolde Chapin WASHWRITER@AOL.COM * * * Fellow scribes: Please forgive the cross-posting of this correction notice as we formally launch WIW-L. I hope you will be able to join us on-line and that you will find the list useful. Kindly let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of any further assistance. Sincerely, Ken Reigner -- Ken Reigner cbs@digex.net Member, Board of Directors List Owner, WIW-L and WIW-JOBS Chairman, Technology Committee wiw-l-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Washington Independent Writers wiw-jobs-request@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:19:33 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms At 10:02 AM 12/12/97 -0500, Elaine R. Firestone wrote: >At 10:02 PM 12/10/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: > >>>I scratched my head quite a bit over it, but here's what I've come up >>>with: >>> >>>AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 >>>AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique. See QALYs: sociological >>>critique of >>>Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >>>Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >>>Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also QALYs: sociological critique of >>>QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) >>> sociological (AMP) critique of, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 > >To which Michael Brackney replied: >>Carol: >> >>I'd use the same structure you suggest -- with some form of the AMP critique >>instead of the sociological critique of QALYs as the main term (since that >>would follow what you describe as the author's usage): >> >> >>AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 >>AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique, 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 >>Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique >>Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique >>Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique >>QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) >> sociological critique of. See AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch) critique > > >I have to agree wholeheartedly with Michael, Carol. His method cuts down >on the amount of cross-referencing needed. I deal with this same problem >of multiple meanings for acronyms, and I handle it similar to Michael's >method. Dear Carol et al.: When I read this message from Elaine it looked to me like she'd used the wrong example from my posting for making her point so I asked her about this directly. She confirmed that in a hurry she'd copied the wrong one, and in the midst of her busy-ness she asked me to pass this on to you and the other interested persons on the list. Here's the example she meant to quote: >AMP (Applied Mathematical Panel), 27, 28 >AMP critique (Ashmore, Mulkay, and Pinch critique), 141-42, 143-47, 145n, 152, 158 >Ashmore, Malcolm, 141-42. See also AMP critique >Mulkay, Michael, 141-42. See also AMP critique >Pinch, Trevor, 141-42. See also AMP critique >QALYs (quality-adjusted-life years) > sociological critique of. See AMP critique I've just read Do Mi's latest post in which she says she'd prefer to put the qualifier directly after the acronym in a multiple word term such as "AMP critique" (as in my first suggested example, the one Elaine didn't mean to quote). Clearly this will work fine and it may be the standard way of doing it, but I wonder: does anyone else fancy the advantages of keeping the whole term ("AMP critique") intact and, as a consequence, being able to simplify the cross references by eliminating the qualifier? More cheers, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916 272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 22:08:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jean A. Thompson" Subject: Job opening Here's another job posting for an indexer from the Library Jobs Listserv. Jean Thompson ****************FORWARDED MESSAGE FOLLOWS***************************** INDEXER/ABSTRACTER/EDITOR PAIS--Public Affairs Information Service, Inc., publishers of bibliographic indexes to the literature of social sciences and public policy, is seeking to fill an Assistant Editor position. This position requires experience indexing, abstracting, and editing; an MLS degree; database and Internet searching; knowledge of computer word processing; fluent English; a background in the social sciences or international affairs; and reading knowledge of one of French, German, or Spanish. Outstanding health and fringe benefits. Please send or fax resume and salary requirements to: PAIS C. Korvin, Editor 521 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Fax: (212) 643-2848 E-mail: inquiries@pais.org FREELANCE ABSTRACTORS PAIS--Public Affairs Information Service, Inc.--Public policy/social sciences/international affairs bibliographic database, is seeking freelance abstracters. Able to produce minimum of 50 abstracts per month from English, French, German, or Spanish language periodicals. Must have PC with CD-ROM drive. PAIS template software supplied. Fee paid on per item abstracting basis. Send resume or contact: requirements to: PAIS T. Friel, Associate Editor 521 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Phone: (212) 736-4161 Fax: (212) 643-2848 E-mail: inquiries@pais.org *********************************************************************** * LIBJOBS is a free service provided by the International * * Federation of Library Associations and Institutions. * * For individual membership information, contact: ifla.hq@ifla.nl * * * * URL: www.ifla.org * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:20:00 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Diane Subject: Re: Job opening >This position requires experience >indexing, abstracting, and editing; an MLS degree; database and Internet Oh shoot--- I thought it said 'MRS degree'; that I have ;D Diane ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:57:37 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: US - Indexer/Abstractor/Editor - New York, NY (fwd) I've become quite interested in abstracting, but am not sure where to start. I've been editing for some 9 or 10 years, indexing for 6 or 7 (or thereabouts, I've lost track of time as I get older). My question to myself is, Why wouldn't I be able to abstract? How many of you get involved in abstracting? Could you spare some details about it? I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing (and maybe Abstracting, someday?) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 05:45:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Chris Blackburn Subject: Re: US - Indexer/Abstractor/Editor - New York, NY (fwd) Leslie, I have spent most of my working days for the past twenty years preparing indexes, but for a few months I worked as an abstracter for the Ontario Educational Resources Information System (under the Ontario government). = As abstracters we read through research papers in education, and then prepar= ed abstracts which were edited by our supervisor (my supervisor at the time had a Ph.D. in English). We followed the rules of a particular system in preparing the abstracts. The material was fairly complex, but I felt my experience as an indexer was useful. I always felt that if I can understa= nd it, I can index (or abstract) it. After a few months my term contract ran= out, and I received a kind letter thanking me for my work, but not inviti= ng me to reapply. (Perhaps I didn't understand the material quite well enoug= h, or perhaps I was a bit slower than they wanted as they were busy switchin= g to computerized databases at that time.) However, I received invitations = to bid on Ontario government projects after that, and have always remained o= n good terms with at least one of my former co-workers. = So in answer to your question, I feel that experience as an indexer, goin= g through material and identifying important terms, was definitely useful i= n abstracting. = Chris Blackburn cblackburn@compuserve.com 16 Purple Sageway, Toronto, ON M2H 2Z5, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 07:57:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: "Part time" and time? Joel Berson asks about part-time vs. freelancing factors. What benefits are offered? Medical insurance? Life insurance? Paid vacations? If none (and depending on how you feel about the "time" part of it) you might be bringing more to the bargaining table than the prospective employer. From the brief description you gave it sounds as if the publisher wants you to be available but cannot guarantee work. Lacking benefits, that is little different than freelancing. Craig Brown ========================================== The Last Word lastword@i1.net Indexing (314)352-9094 www.i1.net/~lastword ========================================== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 09:22:07 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: Airborne Express I remember a long time ago there was a thread on which shipping company was best. I'm currently having a terrible time with Airborne, which I remember got rave reviews, so let me pass on a warning: A publisher about 300 miles away from me sent me proofs on Monday, which should have arrived Tuesday. This publisher is frequently a few days late with proofs, so I didn't think twice about it when nothing showed up. By Friday I figured the schedule had really slipped, so I called and was told "Oh, no, you should have had those days ago." So they checked with Airborne, who said that they had attempted delivery twice, but were unable to reach us because we were in a remote area and the weather was bad. They said they were "running a few days behind" because of weather-related difficulties. We live in Los Alamos, on a paved and well-plowed road in the middle of a suburban area. We are 2 hours from Albuquerque, all on major roads, none of which were closed last week. We did get about a quarter of an inch of snow on Wednesday, but it didn't stick to the roads, and the airports weren't closed. Unless they fly all packages to some central place that did have weather problems, there is no excuse for this delay. FedEx and UPS have been by my house daily, with no problems. So if you live anywhere that could by any stretch of the imagination be called remote, don't count on Airborne! Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:57:39 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Airborne Express I live in the Sacramento area, and lately we've had a lot of fog (to say the least). Airborne has had trouble delivering. I've had two experiences where packages have been late; one package was one day late, and the other will arrive Monday when it should have arrived yesterday (Friday). I don't know if the FedEx or UPS are delivering on time in these foggy conditions, but I have seen both trucks driving around the neighborhood on a regular basis. And we are not terribly remote--we're in a town about 20 minutes south of Sacramento proper, easily accessed by freeway. Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 13:40:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dafydd Llwyd Talcott <75711.1537@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Virus Alert [FWD] This seemed important enough to forward... -------- Forwarded Message --------
====================================================================== ! This message has been sent to all Data Fellows Anti-Virus mailing ! list subscribers. This list has been established to keep Data ! Fellows' customers informed about anti-virus issues. You have ! subscribed to this list earlier on our web site or via an e-mail ! request. ! ! If you do not wish to be on this mailing list any more, you can ! remove yourself via a web form at the subscription page at ! http://www.DataFellows.com/form.a/subscribe.htm ! or by sending a message to Majordomo@DataFellows.com with the text ! "Unsubscribe Anti-Virus" in the message body. ====================================================================== PC FORMAT December Cover CD-ROM: infected The December 1997 issue of the popular European PC Format magazine, published by UK-based Future Publishing, contains two cover CD-ROMs. One of them contains files infected by a Word Macro virus. PC Format is one of the most popular English-language computer magazines in Europe. Issue 77 was distributed in the beginning of December with two CD-ROMs attached to its cover: The demo CD contains three infected files. The infected files are: \TECH\COMMAND\SOLOINFO.TXT \TECH\COMMAND\SOLOPR~1.TXT \TECH\COMMAND\COMPAT~1.TXT By default, Windows opens such files to Notepad, where they appear to be unreadable. The infected files are Microsoft Word document (.DOC) files that have been renamed with a .TXT extension. These files should be harmless unless opened with Microsoft Word 6, Word 95 or Word 97. Future Publishing is aware of the situation and has published a statement, with comments such as "...The CD-ROM is infected with a virus, but only a teeny weeny one". The virus in question is called WM/Imposter.E. It is also known as Wormy-1 by the text it displays. This virus was probably written in Greece, during Summer 1997. WM/Imposter.E is a Word macro virus, and will spread within .DOC files. The first time a document with this virus is opened using Microsoft Word, the virus will display the following message in the status bar upon exit: WORMY-1 by NAENBGOURSG The virus will proceed to infect every following document as it is saved, also re-infecting files that have been infected already. The virus code also contains the following text: by NAENBGOURSG SO.HT.AI.KS 231076-GREECE Thanks to NEURO VRD 19-4-1997 VRP A.U.A F-PROT Professional, F-Secure Anti-Virus and F-MACRO have all been able to detect and remove WordMacro/Imposter.E since July 1997. However, document files with non-standard extensions are only scanned if you specify All Files from the scan settings. If you suspect that you might be infected by this virus, you can download a copy of F-Secure Anti-Virus or the free F-MACRO utility from our Download Gallery at http://www.DataFellows.com/gallery/ Read more information about this incident at http://www.DataFellows.com/news/vir-news/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:16:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Al Stewart Subject: Re: Airborne Express In-Reply-To: <199712131824.KAA02286@poseidon.vphos.net> One day delays would be nice. I had a package recently shipped UPS that got lost for three months. Al Stewart ----------------------------------------------------------- "Stewart Information Services" Manuscripts - Word Processing - OCR/Scanning - Proofreading Al Stewart -- stewarta@kootenay.com -- stewarta@impact.ca http://www.cadvision.com/stewarta/multi1a.htm ----------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:17:08 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: indexing dreams We put up our tree today, and I caught myself proofreading the candy canes--you know, making sure each opening quotation mark had a matching close quote. Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:14:48 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BVLDais Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: headings for nightmares -Reply I can relate to the dreaming in shorthand! I took it in high school and even in church I'd write with my finger on my leg or the pew!! This was especially the case if I heard a new word. I'd try to figure out how it felt to write it!! I too index and sort in my sleep...this is helpful at times. I've been able to solve problems this way...but not always! Virginia Dais (indexing chemistry books!!! FUN!!) BVLDais@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 18:09:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Indexserv Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Airborne Express I've had similar experiences with AE, with packages delivered days after I expected them to arrive. The thing that stands out most with the local (Indianapolis) AE service is the complete disregard for package safety and/or security. All of my AE packages are simply thrown at my door. No need for a signature. Just as long as the package is pretty much delivered, then good enough. Nope. I just don't trust 'em. Down with Airborne Distress! :-) Tim ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:44:21 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLF EdServ Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Airborne Express In a message dated 97-12-13 16:24:11 EST, you write: << One day delays would be nice. I had a package recently shipped UPS that got lost for three months. >> Remember the skit on Saturday Night Live about the delivery company that accepted packages that were supposed to have been mailed weeks before, marked them and tore them, delivered them late, and then accepted the blame? Maybe that's what's going on here. They're slogan was something like, "When you needed to get it there yesterday" or some such thing. Leslie Frank Words Indexing and Editing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 11:02:20 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: "Part time" and time? In-Reply-To: <199712130518.XAA26108@mixcom.mixcom.com> >The publisher's demands vary, so there will be peak periods and >troughs. If this were freelancing, I would expect to be able to accept >or decline jobs, depending on my other jobs, vacation plans, etc. But >as an employee, how would I agree on this with my employer? A >guaranteed minimum time (and pay) per week? An agreed maximum? How >would we negotiate time (and pay) beyond the maximum? Would I be able >to decline assignments if I had a conflicting job? > >I will ask the employer these questions before deciding whether to >accept, but any clues on approach or responses would be appreciated. > >Are there any other factors I should be concerned about, as a part-time >employee versus freelancing? I would suggest that you write down your own answers to those questions, that is, what you yourself would like the answers to be. Before you start any negotiations, it's a good idea to know what you want, at least roughly. A couple of other concerns to add to your list: benefits? contract? does the employer have any concerns about/restrictions on the kind of work you take on in your free time? (usually only comes up with full-time employment, but you never know) Good luck! Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:59:01 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms Michael wrote: << I've just read Do Mi's latest post in which she says she'd prefer to put the qualifier directly after the acronym in a multiple word term such as "AMP critique" (as in my first suggested example, the one Elaine didn't mean to quote). Clearly this will work fine and it may be the standard way of doing it, but I wonder: does anyone else fancy the advantages of keeping the whole term ("AMP critique") intact and, as a consequence, being able to simplify the cross references by eliminating the qualifier? >> I do think you could do it either way; my preference for AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay and Pinch) critique is that "critique" doesn't have to be repeated. And I would ^still^ eliminate the qualifier in the cross references, even though it comes in the middle! Does anyone else do that, or am I out in left field? Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:09:03 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Webmaster Subject: first paper from FutureProof Indexer conf., Katoomba 9/97 - PowerPoint Hi The first paper from the Australian Society of Indexers Conference at Katoomba - FutureProof Indexer - is available: (1) http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/futurepapers.html - main page for papers Michael Middleton, Indexing for all? (2) http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/MiddletonM.html It is a PowerPoint file (520KB) and requires PowerPoint 97 or a viewer. See (2) for links to Microsoft for free viewer (2.8MB) for Win95/NT. We hope to convert it to HTML soon. :) Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers, Sydney, NSW, Australia +61-2-98902691 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058, ICQ chat id wwwalker, no. 4631678 (www.mirabilis.com) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:32:53 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: author-invented acronyms In-Reply-To: <199712140522.XAA14120@mixcom.mixcom.com> >I do think you could do it either way; my preference for AMP (Ashmore, Mulkay >and Pinch) critique is that "critique" doesn't have to be repeated. And I >would ^still^ eliminate the qualifier in the cross references, even though it >comes in the middle! Does anyone else do that, or am I out in left field? Yes, that's just what I initially did! (In fact, I always eliminate the parentheticals in the cross-refs, no matter where in the phrase I insert them.) Then I felt uncomfortable about it. Then I didn't. I think I'm beginning to phase-shift (Trekkie talk). ;-) But seriously, thanks everybody for your help. I feel more comfortable using this author's invented acronym as a bona fide term. And guess what--another author several chapters later did the same with three other researchers (producing a different acronym, thankfully). Apparently, that is common in this field, as someone else (Do Mi maybe?) speculated. Ah, it's good to be (almost) done with this one. Tonight--ballroom dancing! Cha cha cha, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer http://www.mixweb.com/Roberts.Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:17:33 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Webmaster Subject: AusSI FutureProof papers: Tony Barry - Will indexers be redundant by the year 2005? Tony Barry's paper's link has been mounted on: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/BarryT2.html This also includes a link to the RTF of his paper. More to come :) Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers, Sydney, NSW, Australia +61-2-98902691 (h) +61-(0)412-405727 (mobile), fax +61-2-97772058, ICQ chat id wwwalker, no. 4631678 (www.mirabilis.com) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi