Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 07:48:05 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9702A" To: Julius Ariail ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 00:20:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Chicago/Great Lakes Group Winter Workshop American Society of Indexers, Chicago/Great Lakes Group Winter Conference 1997 featured speaker: Francis S. Lennie discusses: Editing the Index and presents a CINDEX Workshop Saturday, February 22, 1997, 8:00 am=964:30 pm Wyndham Garden Hotel 5615 N. Cumberland Avenue Chicago, IL 60631; 773-693-5800 Program Schedule 8:00 Registration 8:30 Welcome and announcements 8:45 Francis Lennie: Editing: The Essence of Index Preparation 10:15 Break 10:40 Donna Rakow: Ergonomics and Office Design=20 12:00 Buffet lunch with networking tables 1:30 CINDEX demonstration and workshop 4:25 Wrap-up and announcements Directions The Wyndham Garden Hotel is accessible by public transportation (Cumberla= nd stop on CTA Blue Line). Cumberland South exit off the Kennedy Expressway.= The hotel also provides free shuttle service from O=92Hare Airport. For hotel= and accommodation information, call 312-693-5800. Additional Information For more information, call Sandi Schroeder at 847-303-0989 (sanindex@aol.= com) or Gerald Van Ra-venswaay at 773-665-2588 (gvraven@aol.com). Registration ASI Members Non-members By February 15 $ 60 $ 80 By February 20 $ 75 $ 90 At the door $ 90 $100 Be sure to register early for this popular program. Attendance is limited= to the first 40 registrants. Conference fee includes continental breakfast, deli bar lunch, and aftern= oon refreshments. Name________________________________ First name for nametag__________________ Address______________________________ City, State, Zip________________________ Phone_______________________________ E-mail_______________________________ ___ I will be staying overnight at the hotel.=20 (This information is for planning purposes only. Please make your reservations directly with the hotel.) Make checks payable to Caryl Wenzel, ASI Chicago Group Treasurer. Mail form and check to: Caryl Wenzel, 8315 Route 53, Unit B14, Woodridge,= IL 60517. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:04:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Indexer Services distribution This is for ASI members who will be listed in the Indexer Services directory. All others may delete. The Indexer Services committee is planning our distribution process. At the moment we have a choice. We can (1) try to have the publication for distribution at the Winston-Salem conference, in which case those not attending the conference will get their copies after the conference or (2) wait until after the conference and send everyone's copies out at the same time. I'd appreciate you're answering the following questions. PLEASE REPLY DIRECTLY TO ME VIA PRIVATE E-MAIL. 1. Will you be attending the Winston-Salem confeence. 2. If yes, would you like to have the directory available to you at the conference or does it not make any difference? 3. If no, would you mind if those attending the conference got their copies a week or two before you? Thanks for your input. REMINDER: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:06:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: ASI Indexer Services distribution This is for ASI members who will be listed in the Indexer Services directory. All others may delete. The Indexer Services committee is planning our distribution process. At the moment we have a choice. We can (1) try to have the publication for distribution at the Winston-Salem conference, in which case those not attending the conference will get their copies after the conference or (2) wait until after the conference and send everyone's copies out at the same time. I'd appreciate you're answering the following questions. PLEASE REPLY DIRECTLY TO ME VIA PRIVATE E-MAIL. 1. Will you be attending the Winston-Salem confeence. 2. If yes, would you like to have the directory available to you at the conference or does it not make any difference? 3. If no, would you mind if those attending the conference got their copies a week or two before you? Thanks for your input. REMINDER: Please reply via private e-mail. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services chair, ASI Indexer Services committee --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: ASI Indexer Services distribution Date: 97-02-01 01:05:15 EST From: Locatelli To: index-l@bingvmb.cc.binghamton.edu This is for ASI members who will be listed in the Indexer Services directory. All others may delete. The Indexer Services committee is planning our distribution process. At the moment we have a choice. We can (1) try to have the publication for distribution at the Winston-Salem conference, in which case those not attending the conference will get their copies after the conference or (2) wait until after the conference and send everyone's copies out at the same time. I'd appreciate you're answering the following questions. PLEASE REPLY DIRECTLY TO ME VIA PRIVATE E-MAIL. 1. Will you be attending the Winston-Salem confeence. 2. If yes, would you like to have the directory available to you at the conference or does it not make any difference? 3. If no, would you mind if those attending the conference got their copies a week or two before you? Thanks for your input. REMINDER: ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 04:13:27 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Dietsch Subject: Re: Indexing product names I run across this problem all the time, especially with Microsoft products. Usually I will stick with whatever the author uses and have a see reference from the other version of the name. For example, if the author consistently says "Microsoft Word", then that's how it will appear in the index with a see reference from "Word" (granted, this example isn't very good since most authors would just use "Word", but you understand my point). I think it's important to reflect the author's or editor's terminology as accurately as possible, so that the index is consistent with the body of the book and the conventions used in it. Cheryl Dietsch Macmillan Publishing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:07:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MTOWERY@AOL.COM Subject: More on SIGs As Barb said, the History/Archaeology Special Interest Group is organized mainly as a marketing cooperative. That's not the only thing a SIG could do though. It could serve as a resource for trading info, answering questions, etc.--whatever the group wanted to do. It's just another way for indexers to "sort" themselves. We have the national organization, then the regional chapters, and now the subject-oriented SIGs. The His/Arch SIG currently has 19 members. Each member chipped in $10 to cover postage, paper, xeroxing, etc. We now have a brochure that describes us in terms of the importance of a good index and our professional abilities and in-depth subject specialties (it also touts ASI) and a directory in which each of us have listed our specialties within history and archaeology. I'll bring a few brochures to Winston-Salem--perhaps I can post them on the bulletin board area, so interested folks can peruse them. Also, if this is something you are really interested in, sign up for the Fri. roundtable on SIGs. I think a medical/science SIG is a good idea. I might also mention that some legal indexers have gotten together and have a regular newsletter, so that's another idea for SIGs. I earlier offered to serve as the "coordinator" for SIGs for ASI, so please feel free to contact me if you have any questions (e-mail; or phone, 765-449-1718). Margie Towery Towery Indexing and Editing Service ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 08:26:00 -0800 Reply-To: greenhou@erols.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: Re: Cindex (Mac), scripts, and flips Some computer gut told me to use the alt+tab keys to jump around open windows. I just found a list of shortcuts that I printed out from the help window in Netscape. I'm not sure if the list exists in other Windows help screen. Let me know if this works for you. Shelley Greenhouse (greenhou@erols.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:51:00 GMT0 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: Macrex v. Cindex In-Reply-To: <199701271642.QAA18993@gold.compulink.co.uk> I feel I must clear up some misunderstandings which appeared in the recent Macrex/Cindex comparisons. 1) The capacity of Macrex has *never* - even in the CP/M days, when the upper limit was around 80,000 entries - been as low as 10,000 entries. Macrex's capacity has been well over a million entries (obviously dependent on hardware) since the extender version was produced in 1994. Previous PC versions (1986 to 1994) could cope with several hundred thousand entries. The current version of Macrex (version 6) is only restricted on pre-386 machines - and that restriction applies only to the number of entries which can be sorted into their final order immediately on entry. Since almost all machines nowadays are at least 386s this restriction hardly ever applies. 2) It is true that there is not a Mac version of Macrex, but, like Cindex, we have been working on a Windows version for some time. Macrex is under continuous development and we keep in very close touch with our users, a substantial number of whom have suggested new features and modifications over the years. We also do our utmost to keep up with developments in software and hardware, and incorporate new ideas into the program as soon as these become feasible. 3) Macrex does not need a separate field for locators so in fact anything at all - or nothing - can come at the end of an entry. Coding of references is sometimes need in situations like the following: a) you want to put the index in page number order, in which case the program will not automatically realise that, for instance, 1st April 1995 comes after 4th June 1994 without this being coded in advance. References coded this way are automatically `translated' to the correct form of words at the printing stage. or b) you want to have entries similar to the above example run on one from the other (as in a string of page numbers) - again coding is the way out of this. Anything - just anything - names or `fourth shelf down on the right in the cupboard under the window' or any other `locators' - can be treated as page numbers by enclosing the locator in {} and adding a `dummy number'. Any Macrex user who has ideas for modifications or improvements to Macrex is welcome to contact us direct. Drusilla and Hilary Calvert MACREX Indexing Services Beech House, Burn Road Blaydon, Tyne & Wear NE21 6JR England +44 (0)191-414 2595 (phone/fax) hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 09:44:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CarolC777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ASI Indexer Services distribution Dear Fred, I am a new member of ASI and have recently completed the USDA course but have not started indexing yet for any clients. Is this directory printed on an anuual basis? How can I receive a copy for my own use? Thank-you. Carol S. Chroneos CAROLC777@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 09:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: rachelr@tiac.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Organization: Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Subject: Quickeys is easier than Applescript Carol, I used Quickeys to make keystrokes for Previous, Next, Flip, and one to send Done and then automatically open a new entry window. I also recorded a sequence that after you Flip goes and gets the first work in the main entry (usually "and" or "the") and moves it to be the first word in the subentry. I have to mess with capitalization, thought if I've set Cindex to automatically capitalize in any way. That particular sequence stopped working all of a sudden, theugh, so I have to redo it. I really think for the $60 or so you should get Quickeys. I'll be happy to share my keysets, and be happy to take anyone else's. Quickeys is so much easier becuase you just set it to record whatever you're doing, and it automatically makes the sequence for you, which you can then edit if you want. I also use it an incredible amount for proofreading and copyediting as I have sequenes for changing a lot of common errors. I also use it to type out my addresses for me, to get my mail, and about a billion other things. You can write off the expense. Rachel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:25:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Sloan Subject: Re: ASI Indexer Services distribution You wrote: > >This is for ASI members who will be listed in the Indexer Services directory. >All others may delete. > >The Indexer Services committee is planning our distribution process. At the >moment we have a choice. We can (1) try to have the publication for >distribution at the Winston-Salem conference, in which case those not >attending the conference will get their copies after the conference or (2) >wait until after the conference and send everyone's copies out at the same >time. > >I'd appreciate you're answering the following questions. PLEASE REPLY >DIRECTLY TO ME VIA PRIVATE E-MAIL. >1. Will you be attending the Winston-Salem confeence. No, I will not be there >2. If yes, would you like to have the directory available to you at the >conference or does it not make any difference? >3. If no, would you mind if those attending the conference got their copies a>week or two before you? No, I would not mind. > >Thanks for your input. > >REMINDER: > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 12:13:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "James L. Curtis" Subject: Re: ASI Indexer Services distribution At 01:04 AM 2/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >1. Will you be attending the Winston-Salem confeence. Yes. >2. If yes, would you like to have the directory available to you at the >conference or does it not make any difference? It would be nice, but not a big deal one way or the other. Thanks for your efforts. Jim Curtis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 09:53:56 -0800 Reply-To: Kari Bero Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: ASI WWW news The ASI Web Committee would like to invite you to visit the two newest pages on our site (http://www.well.com/user/asi/): . "Current ASI Announcements" (from our home page, click on the sunburst icon). You'll find information here about current ASI happenings and deadlines (right now, information about the Salary Survey and the Indexer Registry forms). This information will change regularly (or will not be displayed at all when few general-interest issues are active). . "Food for Thought: ASI's 29th Annual Meeting" (from our home page, click on "ASI Meetings", then select the link to the current meeting). As you can probably tell, this is information and a registration form for the 29th Annual Meeting in Winston-Salem. You will find a registration form online, but remember that payment must accompany your registration, so you'll need to print out the form, and send it to the listed address. Our thanks to those folks who have sent us suggestions and corrections. You've made our site more useful for all our users. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ASI Web Committee: Kari Bero (webmaster) Lori Lathrop Lynn Moncrief Janet Perlman Charlotte Skuster (ASI board representative) Neva Smith Jan Wright (webmaster) Pilar Wyman (chair) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:05:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Writing on a CD Any suggestions for an entry that would distinguish between writing on a CD in the sense of "The program wrote data to the CD" and the sense of "The user wrote his name on the CD with a magic marker"? Dick Richard (Dick) Evans Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:44:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Re: Writing on a CD In-Reply-To: <199702011823.NAA09667@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> HI, Richard: I would attempt to avoid the phrase "write on." How about identifying, labelling CDs? I would also be careful to always use the terms, "write to" or "write to disk," or "recording data on CDs" when I mean the sense of writing data. These should be pretty clear. I'll keep my eyes open for otheer views. Cheers, David On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Richard Evans wrote: > Any suggestions for an entry that would distinguish between writing on a CD > in the sense of "The program wrote data to the CD" and the sense of "The > user wrote his name on the CD with a magic marker"? > > Dick > > > > Richard (Dick) Evans > Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:20:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Writing on a CD In a message dated 97-02-01 13:10:01 EST, infodex@MINDSPRING.COM (Richard Evans) writes: << Any suggestions for an entry that would distinguish between writing on a CD in the sense of "The program wrote data to the CD" and the sense of "The user wrote his name on the CD with a magic marker"? >> Dick, Are you sure you didn't answer this in your post, already?! ;-D I noticed you said "wrote data to" vs "wrote ... on" the CD. Might using 'to' vs 'on' do the trick? --I must admit that this sounds odd to me, but I'm not a programmer, so perhaps this is how consister for 'programmerspeak'. Pilar L. Pilar Wyman Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:21:43 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kay Farris Subject: Re: ASI Indexer Services distribution CarolC777@AOL.COM wrote: > > Dear Fred, I am a new member of ASI and have recently completed the USDA > course but have not started indexing yet for any clients. Is this directory > printed on an anuual basis? How can I receive a copy for my own use? > Thank-you. > > Carol S. Chroneos > CAROLC777@aol.com Carol, How do you enroll for this USDA course? Thanks, Jocelyn Faris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:54:30 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: Cindex (Mac), scripts, and flips Carol Roberts wrote, in part: >... >Have any of you tried writing AppleScript scripts to use with Cindex? >....That's assuming AppleScript will even work within Cindex. It won't, unfortunately, but according to an informal conversation with me at an ASI meeting, the author understands why scriptability is important and it is on the list for the next version. Contact Indexing Research for more current information. and then Carol said: >If not, I might break down and go Rachel's route and buy QuicKeys. There's a new kid on the block called OneClick, that has much more flexibility than QuicKeys, and can totally automate actions involving keyboard and mouse. It's from WestCode software and is available at all the usual Mac sources, I am sure. I just got it based on reviews, and am starting to integrate it with my CINDEX usage. >Twain, Mark > Huckleberry Finn >Huckleberry Finn (Twain) > >That's a special kind of flip that, as far as I know, only HyperIndex can >do with one simple keyboard command (option + switch). Although there's >probably still a lot about Cindex's capabilities that I don't know. I have >managed to figure out all the keyboard moves that will generate that second >entry from the first main entry + sub, and all that remains is to write the >script with those keyboard strokes in it. Too bad I've never used >AppleScript before. ;-) I'll bet OneClick will do it. In fact, if you can form a group with just the records you want to flip in this way ( I presume there are lots, since you want a short cut) a CINDEX pattern can do it. >BTW, does Larry or anyone else know of a 7.5 Finder shortcut to move the >cursor from an open window in one program to an open window in another? Nope. Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) Tel: 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota What's book indexing? ---> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:45:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: CarolC777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ASI Indexer Services distribution Hi, You can enroll for the Basic Indexing course by contacting the USDA in Washington, D. C. Their phone number is # (202) 720-7123. They can mail you a catalog with all their correspondence classes listed. The course takes about one year to complete. Sometimes it can take 4 to 5 weeks to receive a graded lesson which is kind of frustrating but I thought overall the course was very worthwhile. I know many people learn Indexing by the seat of their pants but I feel some formal training is needed. The cost of the course is $281.00. Carol S. Chroneos ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 20:05:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: See also checking (was botanical) Elinor wrote: > >In Macrex the cross-references are checked as I enter them, and I get a >beep if the one I have just entered is not syntactically accurate. I can >ignore the beep and just go on, since I know why it's happening. Then, I >always look at the cross-reference file that Macrex generates before I >deliver an index. I scan for "Not found" entries, and can usually remember >why the "not found" appears or quickly check them, flipping between the >index and the cross-reference list. I could also just print out the "not >found" entries to do this, but I don't usually bother. I would presume you >do the same in Cindex with the ^See also^ ^specific species^ entries, etc. >They always come out "not found," but it's obvious why. > My solution to this is, when I get that beep (if I don't remember without it), to add ^specific entries^ or whatever as its own entry, with {*} after the (arbitrary) page reference. Then I can do my cross-reference check at the end, search * and delete those entries, and not have to worry about them getting marked as "not found." Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 20:05:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Cindex, flipping caps >I have been lobbying (unsuccessfully) for years for Cindex to add a setup >parameter that would allow individual users to set the default behavior for >the numeric plus key: either "flip caps" or "maintain caps." >Thank you for your support. The folks at Cindex have refused to make this change because they don't perceive enough advantage to the users (i.e. "Dick, you're the only one who wants it."). I have to believe that it would benefit *all* users who work in case-sensitive areas and don't hard code caps.< I need this all the time--for publishers who want lower case main entries, usually. Macrex has a menu setting to choose whether to adjust capitalization on flips or not. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 21:32:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: ASI Indexer Services distribution The following was quoted on the ASI homepage about the USDA course: Web: http://grad.usda.gov/corres/corpro.html (to see information about their indexing courses, click on Course Catalog, then click on Editing.) Good luck. At 07:45 PM 2/1/97 -0500, CarolC777@AOL.COM wrote: >Hi, You can enroll for the Basic Indexing course by contacting the USDA in >Washington, D. C. Their phone number is # (202) 720-7123. They can mail you >a catalog with all their correspondence classes listed. The course takes >about one year to complete. Sometimes it can take 4 to 5 weeks to receive a >graded lesson which is kind of frustrating but I thought overall the course >was very worthwhile. I know many people learn Indexing by the seat of their >pants but I feel some formal training is needed. The cost of the course is >$281.00. > >Carol S. Chroneos > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:22:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Cindex, flipping caps Maybe a little competition will encourage Cindex!! If Macrex can do it... ! I would love to be able have something like FlipCaps Yes/No on the Set General or Set Format screen in Cindex. DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: > I need this all the time--for publishers who want lower case main entries, > usually. Macrex has a menu setting to choose whether to adjust capitalization > on flips or not. > > Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 03:13:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Earl Morton Subject: Re: Writing on a CD In a message dated 97-02-01 13:10:03 EST, Dick writes: >> Any suggestions for an entry that would distinguish between writing on a CD in the sense of "The program wrote data to the CD" and the sense of "The user wrote his name on the CD with a magic marker"? << I would avoid using "write" to refer to putting data on the disk. I would say "record" or "store." I know that programmers talk about "writing" data to or on a disk (I used to be a programmer), and I might use that expression if my document was for them, but not for end-user or consumer docs. Earl Morton WorkgWords@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:15:01 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: Re: ASI Direcotory Greetings: A question about the Directory. Is it appropriate to list services & skills other than indexing? Thanks very much. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:17:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Nienart Subject: Course Hi Indexers, I've suscribed to Index-l for several months. Even the cats and pj's discussion!! I currently index for a proprietary database of chemical and medical journal articles. My area of expertise in definately focused and I's like to expand to try and pick up more work. I looked up the FDA Course based on your recommendation. This course would definately expand my knowledge, but would it provide what I need to actually pick up some other work? I can't even get a rejection letter from all my calls and resumes to publishers!! So I'm not sure if I don't have the qualifications or there isn't much work available?? Reply on or off the list. Thanks Cynthia Nienart C.A.N. Associates Nienart@eclipse.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:50:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Course At 11:17 AM 2/2/97 -0800, Cynthia Nienart wrote: >I looked up the FDA >Course based on your recommendation. This course would definately expand >my knowledge, but would it provide what I need to actually pick up some >other work? I can't even get a rejection letter from all my calls and >resumes to publishers!! So I'm not sure if I don't have the >qualifications or there isn't much work available?? Cynthia, I haven't taken the FDA course, but I'd highly recommend it, based on the experience of many of the posters (and instructors) I've meet through this list. I learned my indexing the hard way...I'm self-taught. As for getting more business, don't feel bad if you don't get responses (positive or negative) to your initial calls and resumes. Persistence pays off! Most publishers maintain a file of freelance help and are probably dropping your resume in there until their time of need. It's actually unusual to hear back from an exploratory call or letter unless the person actually has a project on her desk and is desperately in need of help. I haven't done much marketing for awhile, because I am generally as busy as I want to be, but when I was doing more of it, I would send the letter and resume first (addressed to a specific person), then I would follow up with a phone call about a week later. I avoided a totally cold call that way (the person usually remembered me from my resume having crossed her desk), and was almost always able to have a productive conversation. Work did not always immediately ensue, but I would be persistent about follow-up with people who did sound reasonably interested. In a larger company, you can always ask the person you are speaking with if there are other editors who hire freelancers, and if you may have their names. Also, get to know your fellow indexers and let them get to know YOU. That way, you put yourself in a good position to receive referrals. That's why joining ASI and attending chapter and national meetings is such a great idea. Good luck. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 16:49:54 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Writing on a CD In-Reply-To: <199702020500.XAA02053@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Any suggestions for an entry that would distinguish between writing on a CD >in the sense of "The program wrote data to the CD" and the sense of "The >user wrote his name on the CD with a magic marker"? I should think "writing to" vs. "labeling" would do it. Or "writing data to." Or "tranferring data to." That last is perhaps a little muddy, from the programmer's point of view, but maybe more understandable to lay readers. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:13:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jan Martin Subject: Re: ASI Indexer Services distribution Dear Fred, I will be attending the Winston-Salem conference. Distribute the directory in the most convenient way for you. Thanks for asking, Jan Martin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:16:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Re: Writing on a CD In-Reply-To: <199702011808.KAA04717@mx2.u.washington.edu> How about Compact disk labeling of writing data to Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA. On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Richard Evans wrote: > Any suggestions for an entry that would distinguish between writing on a CD > in the sense of "The program wrote data to the CD" and the sense of "The > user wrote his name on the CD with a magic marker"? > > Dick > > > > Richard (Dick) Evans > Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:50:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Learning to Index/Advanced Indexing Since there is once again a thread about learning to index, I thought I would repeat for new members to the list that my company offers a 3-cassette video on Basic Indexing Skills, which is a tape of an actual one-day workshop. The dates of up-coming the Boston-area workshops are listed below. I will be giving the Basic course and a 2-day advanced workshop for technical indexing. Anyone wanting more information can look at my Web page (address below) or contact me personally. For my thoughts on how the Basic course compares to the USDA, please contact me by email. For info about an upcoming article about the course in the Boston Globe, please see my separate post. Susan Susan Holbert 617-893-0514 Indexing workshops and videos: BASIC INDEXING SKILLS -- March 8, April 12 HOW TO INDEX MANUALS AND ONLINE HELP -- APRIL 24-25 Web page: www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 11:50:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Boston Globe article There will be an article about indexing in the Boston Globe Business Section on Tuesday, Feb 4, in Juliet Brudney's column, Living with Work. My understanding is that it will be about indeixng and people who have learned to index by taking my workshop or video. Some people interviewed: the president of the MA ASI chapter, the president of the Freelance Editorial Association, and several prominent contributors to this list. Anyone wanting a copy may email me off-list. I'll have some made up. Susan Susan Holbert 617-893-0514 Indexing workshops and videos: BASIC INDEXING SKILLS -- March 8, April 12 HOW TO INDEX MANUALS AND ONLINE HELP -- APRIL 24-25 Web page: www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:06:25 -0800 Reply-To: greenhou@erols.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "S. Greenhouse" Subject: FCC and telephone/internet charges? I'm copying something posted from another list, where it was discussed as a hoax. Anyone in our neck of the woods know if it's a real thing? >Subject: FCC Imposed Charges >I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter >currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has >filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your >internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the >operation of the telephone network. >It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required >to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box >for your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 1997. Send >your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you think. >Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all >our voices may be heard. >Thanks for your time, >Elan Amram> >DTC SuperNet ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:17:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pauline Sholtys Subject: Verifying cross-references in Cindex (was Botanical) Concerning the cross-reference that shows up as an error: Dimorphotheca spp. (African daisy) African daisy see Dimorphotheca spp. I keyed this into a small index file and ran VERIFY just to see what would happen, and it didn't show up as an error. I wondered how exactly all the components were coded (for typeface, etc.), what fields they were entered in, and what version of Cindex was being used? I'm using version 6.0b, and I have had some problems with VERIFY, but this hasn't been one of them, and I use a lot of headings with parenthetical identifiers that aren't used in the cross-references. Pauline Sholtys ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:21:26 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Clifford Urr Subject: Re: Writing on a CD 8888 q ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:37:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Late payers and collection agency? I have a client who is simply not paying me--I have sent three invoices, each with an added charge for late payment. Payment should have been received no later than December 21; I have spoken with the editor and she sent me an email a week ago last Friday saying that the accountant was going to issue my check either that day or the following Monday (Jan.27). Well, I just got my mail again and still no check. I told them that if they did not pay me ASAP that I was going to turn the account over to a collection agency. My question is this: has anyone ever used a collection agency? What is the procedure, cost? At this point, I don't care about the cost, as I am so mad that they think that they can get away with not paying me like this. Try that ploy with your phone company or other outfit! This is the first time that I have had this problem, as most clients are quite good about payment. Any suggestions most welcome. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:40:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: CD-ROM indexing I would like to hear from anyone who has done any indexing of CD-ROMs. Can you recommend any articles or other helps vis-a-vis the process? There was an article in the 1995 ASI conference proceedings, but I don't have access to that right now. Thanks. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:57:53 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mike Hall Organization: mediamode Subject: Re: FCC and telephone/internet charges? S. Greenhouse wrote: > > I'm copying something posted from another list, where it was discussed > as a hoax. Anyone in our neck of the woods know if it's a real thing? > I checked at the FCC web site and yes, it is true. Check it out at this address: http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Comments/access_reform/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 12:00:28 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? At 12:37 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >My question is this: has anyone ever used a collection agency? What is the >procedure, cost? At this point, I don't care about the cost, as I am so mad >that they think that they can get away with not paying me like this. Try >that ploy with your phone company or other outfit! > >This is the first time that I have had this problem, as most clients are >quite good about payment. Cynthia, most collection agencies will charge you anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the amount collected. A far more economical method is to sue this client in your local small claims court. I presume the company is not local (most of us work at long distance); this doesn't matter. As long as the work is done at your place of business, you can sue in your own jurisdiction. The limit on such cases is anywhere from $2000-$5000...call your local court and find out how much is the most you can collect. The paperwork, filing fees, etc., will cost you less than $25, and the very official-looking notice in the mail may be just what you need to get that check without ever even going to court! BTW, if you do go ahead with the court date and the other party doesn't show up, it is an almost automatic slam dunk in your favor. You will win without having to ever present your case. I have only had to do this three times, but I have won--and COLLECTED--each time. I urge you to investigate this option. If you have more detailed questions, feel free to email me. Good luck! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Earl Morton Subject: Re: FCC and telephone/internet charges? In a message dated 97-02-03 12:17:39 EST, Elan Amram writes: >> I'm copying something posted from another list, where it was discussed as a hoax. Anyone in our neck of the woods know if it's a real thing? << I don't know if this particular reference (and its FCC e-mail address) are a hoax or not, but there has been discussion about an Internet (or modem-use) surcharge. As much as I hate the idea, I have to admit that Internet usage has increased the use of phone lines significantly, and somebody has to pay for it. For the past several days here the in Seattle area, it's been hard to make a phone call--any phone call--because there are no lines available. Earl Morton WorkgWords@aol.com ============================= >Subject: FCC Imposed Charges >I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter >currently under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has >filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your >internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the >operation of the telephone network. >It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required >to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box >for your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 1997. Send >your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you think. >Please forward this email to all your friends on the internet so all >our voices may be heard. >Thanks for your time, >Elan Amram> >DTC SuperNet >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:28:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Small Claims Court (Was collection agencies...) I've never heard of anyone actually making it to small claims court to collect. Are there some interesting stories to pass along? Mostly I hear simply that companies would rather not bother going to court and therefore simply mail the check right away. - Seth -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@ora.com) "A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire "I hate quotations." --Ralph Waldo Emerson O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com WWW: http://www.ora.com/people/staff/seth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:51:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Howe Subject: Re: Small Claims Court (Was collection agencies...) --part_AF1BBA1900190E2900000001 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: Inline > I've never heard of anyone actually making it to small claims court > to collect. Are there some interesting stories to pass along? Mostly > I hear simply that companies would rather not bother going to court > and therefore simply mail the check right away. > > - Seth > > -- > > Seth A. Maislin (seth@ora.com) > > "A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire "I hate > quotations." --Ralph Waldo Emerson > > O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 > Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge > MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 > phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1116 facsimile > smaislin@world.std.com WWW: http://www.ora.com/people/staff/seth > Several years ago, I was being stiffed by a publisher for $1500. (This was not for work on an index.) When I filed a complaint in Small Claims Court in NYC the check was forthcoming. Small Claims Court procedures vary from place to place, but in my case it worked out well. --part_AF1BBA1900190E2900000001 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: Inline John Howe, CEP Managing Editor 345 E. 47th St. New York, NY 10017 Voice: (212) 705-7334 Fax: (212) 705-7812 e-mail: johnh@aiche.org --part_AF1BBA1900190E2900000001-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:14:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shirley Warren Subject: indexing store names etal As a beginning indexer, I am supplementing my USDA course by volunteering at the local historical society. Currently I am indexing a series of hundred-year-old newspaper articles, doing mostly names and capitalized words. Neither the librarian nor I was sure how to properly index a store name such as "A. P. Lefevre's" - do we index it under "A" or under "L"? Also, the old gossip writer is quite inconsistent with his terminology. Sometimes "The Highland Independent" is refered to in full; other times it is called "The Independent", and we aren't even positive he is referring to the same "Independent", although we believe so. Would this be indexed under "H", or "I" or under "T" (for 'The')? Further inconsistencies appear, such as the following: Sometimes the "Sons of Temperance" is referred to as the "Sons and Daughters of Temperance" - the librarian really wants me to limit the number of main headings, so I hesitate to list this (probably identical) group both ways. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Interesting; when I approached the librarian to do this work, she said that it would be very simple and straightforward, but it might be useful to my learning indexing. She was very grateful, as up until now nobody has indexed anything except names, for births, weddings, deaths, etcetera. Already I am finding that there are ambiguities and choices I have to make which I am aware are problems compared with the difficult decisions which must be made when indexing books. Feel free to respond off-list, if this is not the kind of thing which might be of universal concern. Thanks in advance. Shirley Warren, shirleywa@ibm.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:32:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@AOL.COM Subject: getting feedback from clients A while back, someone on this list gave a wonderful suggestion as to how to get feedback on indexes that they've prepared for clients. The suggestion was to include a postage-paid postcard with the finished index. As I recall, the postcard asked if/when the indexer could destroy (or return) the manuscript, what the client thought of the quality of the index, etc. Of course, now that I've had postcards printed up with my business address and logo, I can't find the suggestions for the info to print on the postcard! Could that kind soul please post the suggestions again? I really appreciated the ideas, and I'll appreciate it even more if you reprint them, so I can use them! Many thanks, Peg Mauer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:43:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? At 12:00 PM 2/3/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 12:37 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: > >Cynthia, most collection agencies will charge you anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 >the amount collected. A far more economical method is to sue this client in >your local small claims court. I presume the company is not local (most of >us work at long distance); this doesn't matter. As long as the work is done >at your place of business, you can sue in your own jurisdiction. I looked into this during my recent "Bah Humbug" thread. My lawyer said we could sue but could not enforce a judgement across state lines. (I did eventually get paid without resorting to this.) Dick Richard (Dick) Evans Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:55:19 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? In-Reply-To: <199702031737.MAA06232@smtest.usit.net> I had a problem client last year, and when I was calling collection agencies for information, I found several in the Seattle area (who are also nationwide) who charge a percentage of the collection, and they add their fees to the amount to be collected. So, once you give them all your paper work (or copies of it), the next thing you get is a check from them is a check. Very handy, indeed. -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: > I have a client who is simply not paying me--I have sent three invoices, > each with an added charge for late payment. Payment should have been > received no later than December 21; I have spoken with the editor and she > sent me an email a week ago last Friday saying that the accountant was going > to issue my check either that day or the following Monday (Jan.27). Well, I > just got my mail again and still no check. I told them that if they did not > pay me ASAP that I was going to turn the account over to a collection agency. > > My question is this: has anyone ever used a collection agency? What is the > procedure, cost? At this point, I don't care about the cost, as I am so mad > that they think that they can get away with not paying me like this. Try > that ploy with your phone company or other outfit! > > This is the first time that I have had this problem, as most clients are > quite good about payment. > > Any suggestions most welcome. > > ***************************************** > > Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer > cbertel@usit.net > http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html > > ***************************************** > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:03:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Small Claims Court (Was collection agencies...) At 03:28 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Seth A. Maislin wrote: >I've never heard of anyone actually making it to small claims court to >collect. Are there some interesting stories to pass along? Mostly I >hear simply that companies would rather not bother going to court and >therefore simply mail the check right away. Seth, the times I sued a company for my fee, the representative never showed up and I won automatically...but I =did= show up in court and =did= follow up on collections. A few times I have had the papers served and received a check almost by return mail. :-) I do know of one case where the company disputed the case and showed up to argue in front of a judge. (This involved editing, not indexing, and was a bit more complex than the usual publishing situation.) In that case, the plaintiff received a partial payment but was denied the entire amount. She believes the judge did not fully understand the complexities, and I know that she had a hard time presenting them clearly and succinctly in court. She did get something...just not all she COULD have gotten had she been better prepared. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:04:02 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: getting feedback from clients At 04:32 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Pmauer@AOL.COM wrote: >A while back, someone on this list gave a wonderful suggestion as to how to >get feedback on indexes that they've prepared for clients. The suggestion >was to include a postage-paid postcard with the finished index. Peg, that was me...and I think you got the gist of it. :-) The first part of the card has lines for the title and author of the book (which I write in by hand, since I mass-produce these cards on my laser printer). Then there is a line asking the editor to fill in the date the index is received (this lets me know how FedEx/UPS/USPS is doing). I ask whether I should retain the pages (with a blank for the date I can destroy/recycle them) or return them to the publisher. Finally, I ask for comments on the finished index, and leave a blank space for the editor to write in. I have my address printed on the cards, and stick on a stamp. It gets paperclipped to the first page of the index, and I almost always get it back. Unfortunately, many of my clients are now finally Seeing the Light about email file transfers, and I haven't yet figured out a way to encourage feedback with the new way of doing things. Obviously, a postcard isn't going to work if you don't have hard copy or a floppy to send with it. If anybody has any good ideas, please let me know! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:04:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? At 04:43 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: >I looked into this during my recent "Bah Humbug" thread. My lawyer said we >could sue but could not enforce a judgement across state lines. (I did >eventually get paid without resorting to this.) Dick, I would like to know more about this, since it contradicts the information I've used for years. In fact, it intrigues me enough to check it out for myself...but if you can give us details, I'd sure appreciate it. Why would a judgment NOT be valid across state lines? That would mean that you could never sue someone who lived outside your home state and expect to win anything...or, if you did, the loser would simply move himself and/or his assets out of state and avoid ever having to pay. This simply doesn't sound right to me. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:06:12 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: Asi Conference Greetings: My first attempt at this message apparently failed. Obviously, it didn't if this appears twice! Would anyone who plans to attend the ASI Conference in May be interested in a half-hour walk before programs start in the morning? If so, let me know offline. My hope would be to walk for a half hour or so sometime early in the morning. This assumes, of course, that W-S does not have the 90 degree temperature that we had in Denver last year! I apologize if this appears twice! Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Informatio Services Librarian/Technical writer Boston macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:27:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine Jacobs Subject: Re: CD-ROM indexing Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >I would like to hear from anyone who has done any indexing of CD-ROMs. Can >you recommend any articles or other helps vis-a-vis the process? There was >an article in the 1995 ASI conference proceedings, but I don't have access >to that right now. I have worked on several CD-ROM indexes -- the type of indexing depends on the type of information (ie: is it a database, a "book", an encyclopedia...), as well as the flexibility of the programming. I generally found that although I might have input, the decision about how the index would function (and what it would therefore look like) was taken long before I became involved with the project. There is research going on currently in that area, but there is not a yet a great deal of practical information that I have found. Please feel free to pursue this with me off-list, if I can be of any help. Christine ************************************************************************* Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Documentation and Library Systems John Abbott College P.O. Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC H9X 3L9 of:(514) 457-6610, loc.470; fax: (514) 457-4730 ************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:54:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? At 03:04 PM 2/3/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 04:43 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: > >>I looked into this during my recent "Bah Humbug" thread. My lawyer said we >>could sue but could not enforce a judgement across state lines. (I did >>eventually get paid without resorting to this.) > >Dick, I would like to know more about this, since it contradicts the >information I've used for years. In fact, it intrigues me enough to check it >out for myself...but if you can give us details, I'd sure appreciate it. > >Why would a judgment NOT be valid across state lines? Valid, yes. Collectible? Probably not. The implication was that if they still refused to pay there would be nothing I could do about it. That's all the details I have. Richard (Dick) Evans Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:26:14 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? At 08:54 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Richard Evans wrote: >Valid, yes. Collectible? Probably not. The implication was that if they >still refused to pay there would be nothing I could do about it. That's all >the details I have. Oh, okay. That's a different matter...I guess I misunderstood what you'd said. I'm a real tiger about this sort of thing and have enforced judgements in different counties and in towns 200 miles away successfully, though I've never actually had to pursue someone across state lines. The easiest thing to do in a long-distance case is to file an abstract of judgment in the debtor's home county and sit back and wait. If the person owns any real property and ever wants to transfer ownership, he or she MUST pay your debt (with interest running) before the transfer can be finalized. While it takes longer, it's sometimes easier than tracking down a checking account or some other liquid asset. You don't even have to have an address on the property...the abstract is brought up any time that person's name is searched (which happens when title insurance is issued during a real estate transaction). =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:16:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? In-Reply-To: <199702040501.XAA07518@mixcom.mixcom.com> Sonsie, thanks so much for that info. I had been wondering whether you had to sue in the county that the deadbeat Press was in. BTW, in some states, if the defendant already has 2 (or is it 3) "priors," you can get triple the amount! Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 00:27:15 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? In-Reply-To: <199702040501.XAA07518@mixcom.mixcom.com> >Why would a judgment NOT be valid across state lines? My own experience with this is that the judgment is valid all right but unenforceable because the local authorities have no jurisdiction to cross state lines to collect. Someone has to physically collect (only if the party refuses to pay willingly, of course), and your local Small Claims Court has no authority to make a Sheriff's dept. in another state go and collect a fee (although I've heard that some will do it as a courtesy). I once got a judgment against a sleazebag former housemate for $600, but I was never able to collect simply because he had slithered back under his rock (i.e., could not be found). So the judgment was perfectly valid but could not be enforced. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:27:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: on-line indexes Cynthia Bertelsen wrote: >I would like to hear from anyone who has done any indexing of CD-ROMs. Can >you recommend any articles or other helps vis-a-vis the process? There was >an article in the 1995 ASI conference proceedings, but I don't have access >to that right now. and Christine Jacobs offered input. Please continue this discussion on-line, if possible. I am at the same point and would like to follow/input the thread. Perhaps there are others??? Barbara Stroup Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:07:23 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Elizabeth M. Moys" Subject: Re: CD-ROM indexing In-Reply-To: <854991126.923335.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com> In message <854991126.923335.0@vms.dc.lsoft.com>, Cynthia Bertelsen writes >I would like to hear from anyone who has done any indexing of CD-ROMs. Can >you recommend any articles or other helps vis-a-vis the process? There was >an article in the 1995 ASI conference proceedings, but I don't have access >to that right now. There is a substantial article on this subject in BRIEF ENTRY, issue 2, December 1996. The article is by Kate Mertes, an ASI member, and copies of the issue can be ordered from Kate at: kmertes.@riag.com or at 118 N.West Street, Alexandria, VA, 22314 Fax: 703-683-3776 The bulk copies of this issue are still somewhere on the high seas, so please do not expect Kate to be able to send out complete copies immediately. Please do not ask me to air mail copies to you - it is costing me the earth to produce this journal! I hope people will enjoy the article as much as I did. Betty ==================================================================== Elizabeth M. Moys email: betty@moys.demon.co.uk Phone & Fax: +44 (0)1959-534530 Hengist, Badgers Road, Badgers Mount, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN14 7AT, England ==================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:54:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Michael K. Smith" Subject: Re: Cindex, flipping caps At 09:05 PM 1/31/97 -0500, you wrote: >Thank you for your support. The folks at Cindex have refused to make this >change because they don't perceive enough advantage to the users (i.e. >"Dick, you're the only one who wants it."). I have to believe that it would >benefit *all* users who work in case-sensitive areas and don't hard code caps. > >Richard (Dick) Evans >Infodex Indexing Services, Inc. I've done serious beta work on a couple of large, complex programs over the years, and one thing we always managed to convince the developers of was that it's *always* a good thing to allow the user to customize his own use of the product as far as possible. The programmer has only to write the code once (and I can't believe it would be that difficult to do), and the users have the power of CHOICE for ever after.... Mike Michael K. Smith mksmith1@swbell.net Smith Editorial Services CIS: 73177,366 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It doesn't TAKE all kinds, we just HAVE all kinds... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:21:33 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cindy Campbell Subject: Re: Boston Globe article Susan, I would appreciate a copy of the article about indexing in the Boston Globe Business Section on Tuesday, Feb 4, in Juliet Brudney's column, Living with Work. Thank you. Cyndie Campbell Head, Archives, Documentation and Visual Resources/ Chef, Archives, documentation et ressources visuelles National Gallery of Canada/ Musee des beaux-arts du Canada ccampbel@ngc.chin.gc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:08:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Boston Globe article online Juliet Brudney wrote a brief article about indexing for today's Boston Globe. The article can be read online at the following url: http://www.boston.com/globe/eco/cgi-bin/retrieve.cgi?%2Fglobe%2Fvurdy%2F035% 2Feco%2F004 Or you can search for "indexing" at www.boston.com For those people who would like me to send them a copy, I would be happy to do so. A self-addressed envelope would make it much easier for me. Regards, Susan Susan Holbert 617-893-0514 Indexing workshops and videos: BASIC INDEXING SKILLS -- March 8, April 12 HOW TO INDEX MANUALS AND ONLINE HELP -- APRIL 24-25 Web page: www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:53:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Re: Small Claims Court (Was collection agencies...) In-Reply-To: <199702032042.PAA17564@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> Of course, one almost always never deals with this client again. That's probably all right in most cases, of course, but it does need to be said. David Austen - On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Seth A. Maislin wrote: > I've never heard of anyone actually making it to small claims court to > collect. Are there some interesting stories to pass along? Mostly I > hear simply that companies would rather not bother going to court and > therefore simply mail the check right away. > > - Seth > > -- > > Seth A. Maislin (seth@ora.com) > > "A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire > "I hate quotations." --Ralph Waldo Emerson > > O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services > 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street > Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 > (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 > (617) 661-1116 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com > WWW: http://www.ora.com/people/staff/seth > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:20:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on indexing In-Reply-To: <199702041436.JAA19091@obslave.ucs.indiana.edu> I enclose here the URL for the Globe. I can't go into the WWW right now, but if anybody else can, it would be nice to learn whether or not the article is available for all of us here. Cheers, David ------ http://www.globe.com/ On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Cindy Campbell wrote: > Susan, > > I would appreciate a copy of the article about indexing in the Boston Globe > Business Section on Tuesday, Feb 4, in Juliet Brudney's column, Living with > Work. > > Thank you. > Cyndie Campbell > Head, Archives, Documentation and Visual Resources/ > Chef, Archives, documentation et ressources visuelles > National Gallery of Canada/ > Musee des beaux-arts du Canada > ccampbel@ngc.chin.gc.ca > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:39:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Sumaria Systems Inc. Subject: Re: FCC and telephone/internet charges? >> On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:16:51 -0500 (EST), >> WorkgWords@aol.com said: Earl> I don't know if this particular reference (and its FCC e-mail address) Earl> are a hoax or not, but there has been discussion about an Internet (or Earl> modem-use) surcharge. The FCC address is accurate, but the modem tax/surcharge is a hoax that's been floating around since at least 1989. I have a friend who's an Internet service provider, and he's been watching this for some time; it deals with interstate rates for long-distance calls. -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 937-255-3688 Adam was a Canadian. Nobody but a Canadian would stand beside a naked woman and worry about an apple. --Gord Favelle ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:30:24 -0600 Reply-To: lfetters@caller.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Fetters Organization: InfiNet Subject: Re: Cindex, flipping caps Michael and Dick, Cindex for DOS Version 6.1 implements the key flip without altering the case of the leading letters in the fields. Instead of using the ALT+ key for flip, you use the ALT- to avoid changing the case. Linda Fettersr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:40:32 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Adam D. Klein" Subject: Re[2]: Boston Globe article on indexing ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on indexing Author: Indexer's Discussion Group at INTERNET Date: 2/4/97 12:10 PM I enclose here the URL for the Globe. I can't go into the WWW right now, but if anybody else can, it would be nice to learn whether or not the article is available for all of us here. Cheers, David ------ Here is the URL for that story: http://www.boston.com/globe/eco/cgi-bin/retrieve.cgi?/globe/vurdy/035/ eco/004 Here's the story: For many, indexing opens a new chapter in career By Juliet F. Brudney, 02/04/97 Book-indexing is interesting home-based work, say full-time and part-time free-lancers. Full-time earnings are $25,000-$45,000 a year. But the field is small and you need a financial cushion to get started, and good business and indexing skills plus perpetual marketing to keep going. Susan Holbert, a furniture-maker who switched to indexing after a serious back injury in 1980, offers a one-day Learn To Index workshop. Next sessions are 9:15 a.m.-4:30 p.m. March 8 and April 12 in Waltham (893-0514; $129). Holbert had worried for months about how to earn a living with a severe disability. Then a friend suggested she index a book he translated for Harvard University Press. She learned by doing, charged no fee, gained experience and completed a product that ``looked good on my resume.'' Networking led to work for Harvard Press indexing history, economics and literary criticism books. ``Low pay but all I needed,'' she said. By 1986, Holbert was indexing technical manuals, a higher-paid pursuit, via a lead from the Freelance Editorial Association. Association president Ruth Rautenberg became a part-time indexer in 1989 and works mostly on business, economics, psychology books. She has an MBA and left an AT&Texecutive job when she had her first child. She indexed chapters of books, using Holbert's software, to practice the skills, then wrote and made follow-up calls to hundreds of publishers listed in Literary Market Place and the Yellow Pages (FEA is 643-8626). Seth Maislin attended Holbert's workshop in 1992 at age 22. He had a master's degree in optical engineering and a boring job in New Jersey. ``I found indexing enjoyable and got business information that showed you can make a living.'' A friend arranged an interview with a Boston publisher who offered a copy-editing contract. Maislin accepted, relocated and obtained additional copy-editing work, usually for computer-related books. In between, he worked for a temporary office work agency. ``I sent out resumes constantly,'' he said. Late in 1994, a producer of technical books and manuals called about a book to index, ``very technical, 800 pages. Thanks to Susan's workshop, I sounded like an expert even though I'd never done a book index!'' He negotiated a high-rate contract and asked to try an in-house indexing job some weeks later, part-time for three months. He's still there. ``I love the people, the work, the independence, pretty much set my own hours, work enough to get benefits.'' Total earnings from the job and free-lancing are high. ``I prefer not working over 40 hours a week, but sometimes I just can't say no.'' After 17 years as a journalist, Diane Benison, president of Mass. Chapter of American Society of Indexers, became a free-lance writer/copy editor. She added indexing in 1991 and had 60 percent of her billings from it last year. Indexing must be handled as a serious business, she said. ``You can support yourself. To cover health insurance, retirement, disability, you work more than 40 hours a week fairly regularly. ``Susan's course gets you started.'' Then read books on indexing and learn to use the software, she advised. ``I bought two demo discs, cost deducted from purchase price if you buy, volunteered to index one book, free.'' Use Index L on the Internet, Benison said. ``You learn how other people solve problems that you have.'' (508-393-3447). After 30 years in business management, Robert Stone needed home-based work. ``I couldn't run around any more because of Parkinson's disease.'' In 1994, a vocational guidance person suggested Holbert's workshop. Since taking it, ``I've indexed 23 books. ... law, general philosophical and professional studies.'' US Department of Agriculture's Correspondence Course was ``very long but good practice,'' he said (202-720-7123; $281). One problem with the work, Stone said, is offers can become sporadic. ``Nothing in November or December, sent 84 letters to publishers, two responses the same day in January,'' he said. ``I've been working 60 hours a week ever since.'' Career events coming up include: Career Resiliency, 1:30 p.m. Sunday, Boston, job-networking specialist; Trinity Church (492-8849, T. Hulme; free). Travel for Women, noon, panel-luncheon Friday, Cambridge; Women In Business, Cambridge Chamber of Commerce (876-4100; $20 chamber nonmembers). How Senior Managers Get a First Interview, 6:30-9 p.m. next Tuesday, Weston; Exec-U-Net (891-7105, Lassiter; nonmembers $30). Financial Savvy for Women, 5:30-8 p.m. next Tuesday, Milton; Central Networking Association (696-1508; nonmembers $12). Channel Marketing, buffet, speaker 6-8:30 p.m. next Tuesday, Waltham; Business Marketing Association (431-1161, Beth Gamble; nonmembers $45). Age Discrimination Myths, Realities, 8-11 a.m. Feb. 12, Boston; Association Affirmative Action Professionals (508-879-4001; nonmembers $10). Venture Capital, Feb. 12; Business Law, Feb. 25. Both 6:30 p.m. in Wellesley; Babson Entrepreneurial Exchange (239-4304; each $20). Electronic Commerce for Business, 6:30 p.m. dinner Feb. 12, Waltham; N.E. Direct Marketing Association (237-1366; nonmembers $50). Writing On-Line, 6:30-8:15 p.m. Feb. 12, Newton; International Association Business Communicators (854-1843, B. Rhines; nonmembers $25). This story ran on page c2 of the Boston Globe on 02/04/97. Byline Search: You can search for a week's worth of articles by this writer by clicking on the name below: Juliet F. Brudney http://www.globe.com/ On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Cindy Campbell wrote: > Susan, > > I would appreciate a copy of the article about indexing in the Boston Globe > Business Section on Tuesday, Feb 4, in Juliet Brudney's column, Living with > Work. > > Thank you. > Cyndie Campbell > Head, Archives, Documentation and Visual Resources/ > Chef, Archives, documentation et ressources visuelles > National Gallery of Canada/ > Musee des beaux-arts du Canada > ccampbel@ngc.chin.gc.ca > ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:46:37 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Late payers and collection agency? At 12:27 AM 2/4/97 -0600, Carol Roberts wrote: . >My own experience with this is that the judgment is valid all right but >unenforceable because the local authorities have no jurisdiction to cross >state lines to collect. Someone has to physically collect (only if the >party refuses to pay willingly, of course), and your local Small Claims >Court has no authority to make a Sheriff's dept. in another state go and >collect a fee (although I've heard that some will do it as a courtesy). Carol, I don't know how it works in other states, but in CA you call the sheriff's department of X County and they charge you a fee to personally deliver the judgment. Or, if you need to file an abstract of judgment in county records, this is another (smaller) fee. Both fees are tacked on to the actual judgment amount so that when you finally get paid, you get it all back. The most expensive procedure is to obtain a Write of Execution (essentially ordering the sheriff or marshal to seize an aset or assets in fulfillment of the judgment), which costs around $50--or did the last time I had to use this method. When I did this, I sent a "jack-booted thug" to the debtor's place of business on what is called an "eight-hour keeper"--the sheriff shows up and collects any and all money or receipts that come into the place of business for eight hours, or until the judgment is fulfilled. I knew the sheriff was due at this place at 9 AM on a certain day. At 9:10, I got an hysterical phone call from the debtor, who demanded to know what I had done to him. After he ranted incoherently for about ten minutes, I calmly explained to him that all he had to do to get rid of this deputy in full uniform (who was scaring away his customers) was to give the man a certified check for payment in full plus all my expenses. Within 48 hours, I had that check. End of story! Now do you know why I say I am a tiger about collections? :-) =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:05:04 -0600 Reply-To: lfetters@caller.infi.net Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Fetters Organization: InfiNet Subject: Cindex flipping capabilities Michael and Dick, Cindex for DOS Version 6.1 implements the key flip without altering the case of the leading letters in the fields. Instead of using the ALT+ key for flip, you use the ALT- to avoid changing the case. You can also avoid chaning the case of main head and subhead when you flip them by typing a space before the word you want to protect and then press the ALT+ keys (or + key on the numeric key pad). Linda Fetters ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:33:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WordenDex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Verifying cross-references in Cindex (was Botanical) This was a made-up example: Dimorph spp. (African daisy) African daisy. See Dimorph spp. VERIFY with CINDEX 6.0 will give "Missing" messages because the See Dimorph spp. lacks the parenthetical name. It doesn't matter whether the See string would be entered on Page line in plain or underline type; the "Missing" message is dependent on the parens. Why does CINDEX 6.0b not give the "Missing" message? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:38:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C. M. Jacobs" Subject: cd-rom indexing / Brief Entry Betty Moys wrote: There is a substantial article on this subject in BRIEF ENTRY, issue 2, December 1996. The article is by Kate Mertes, an ASI member, and copies of the issue can be ordered from Kate at: kmertes@riag.com or at 118 N.West Street, Alexandria, VA, 22314 Fax: 703-683-3776 ___________ Here is the information about obtaining the copy of the Dec. Brief Entry article that I received from Kate Mertes (kmertes@riag.com) >I'm not quite sure which article you're meaning, but I'm assuming it's one in >the most recent issue of Brief Entry, the international newsletter for law >indexers. We haven't got the newsletter in electronic form (though we're looking >at that), but I can send you hard copy via snailmail. I'm still waiting for >proper copies from Betty, which should arrive soon, but I can send you a photoco >py of the issue I've got if you're in a hurry. Subscriptions to Brief Entry are >$15 per annum; there's a subscription form on the back page of the issue. My >snailmail address is 118 N. West Street, Alexandria, VA 22314. You can send me >your snailmail address by e-mail and subscribe at your leisure once you receive >a copy, or you can subscribe immediately. > > **************************************************************************** Christine Jacobs cmjacobs@johnabbott.qc.ca Documentation and Library Systems (514) 457-6610, loc 470 John Abbott College Fax: (514) 457-4730 Box 2000 Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue, QC H9X 3L9 **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:54:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pauline Sholtys Subject: Re: Verifying cross-references in Cindex (was Botanical) I don't know why version 6.0b doesn't need the parenthetical part. I do know that if I have a reference such as Flowers see also Rose, and the actual heading is Roses, this will not show up as an error either. As long as what is there matches, it doesn't seem to care if there's more afterward. If I want these things to show up as errors, I have to use the command VERIFY/FULL. As I said, though, I use a lot of headings with parenthetical identifiers, and I don't want them to show up as errors, so I just use VERIFY and get the results I described. I do have other problems with VERIFY, however, and was wondering if anyone else has noticed anything strange. I work on very large files, and when something goes awry, it can really cause problems! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:36:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Cindex flipping capabilities Linda Fetters wrote: > > Michael and Dick, > > Cindex for DOS Version 6.1 implements the key flip without altering the > case of the leading letters in the fields. Instead of using the ALT+ key > for flip, you use the ALT- to avoid changing the case. I use the + key on the keypad to flip entries in Cindex. No ALT key, just the nice, big, easy-to-find + key. The problem with the 6.1 "fix" is that I have to remember to move my hands OFF the keypad, over to the keyboard, find the darn minus sign, and the ALT key, etc, etc. Why can't I just use one key, +(keypad), and make it act the way I want it to with a FORMAT option? (My frustration is showing... sorry :-). Cindex... are you out there? Can we have a little patch, maybe?? And while we're at it... could you make the numeric keys on the keypad act like the ALT-combinations on the keyboard? So keypad 0 will insert the locator from previous entry, keypad 1 will insert the previous level-one heading, etc. Would this be feasible? Anybody else think they would use it? Ann Norcross ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 15:07:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Karen Hollister Subject: Glossary writing Hello, everyone. I am delurking to ask a question. I have been indexing medical texts for about 7 years now and haven't been asked to do this, but I do remember of discussion of it on Index-l - can't find it now. I have been asked to submit a cost estimate for writing (compiling) a glossary for an anatomy textbook, before I receive the page proofs to index. I will be looking at galley pages, pulling out the boldface term and its pronunciation, and a definition. it is a text over 1000 pages, and will have lots of terms, I am sure. I have no idea what to charge for this - would it be by the hour, and then would 20-25/hr be okay - I am just guessing. I usually charge by the page, and will do so for the index. Has anyone had experience with this? If so, do you have any suggestions as to what the hourly rate would be for "glossary production"? Any help will be most appreciated! I hope that I will see a question on Index-L someday that I can help answer as well as all of you do so regularly. Thanks again Karen Hollister khollis840@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:01:24 -0600 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Verifying cross-references in Cindex (was Botanical) Diane: With your updated Cindex, you should type "Verfiy/full" to get the "missing" message indicating missing parenthetic stuff. I sometimes do not want the parenthetic stuff in my cross-reference (esp. in gardening books, because these would double the size of the index), so I usually just use verify, but check using "verify/full" to make sure I haven't missed anything else except those definitions. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:57:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Parrish Subject: Re: indexing store names etal Shirley writes, "Feel free to respond off-list, if this is not the kind of thing which might be of universal concern." Please stay on-list with your responses. Since I am working with local histories and have to deal with similar inconsistencies, I am interested in what you have to suggest! Ann Parrish Parrish Professional Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:23:54 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: jfarned@RAIN.ORG Subject: Re: Glossary writing Karen, We completed a glossary recently and charged the publisher $50/hour. I hope this helps. Shannon Smith ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Summerland Inn~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Information Bank~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~Indexing/Editing/Technical Writing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2161 Ortega Hill Road, P.O. Box 1209 Summerland, CA 93067 (805) 969-5225 ~~~~~~~~~Web Site http://www.rain.org/~jfarned/~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:12:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Collections How long does one wait before taking legal action against a client? I may have to take some action, but am not sure how long is reasonable to wait. Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:17:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Murphy, Avon" Subject: Indexing government Web sites -- (Long forwarded message) Here is one more enlightened commentary on the problems of both author-generated indexes and automated "indexing." Reposted by permission of the author, a government information expert armed with a library science degree as well as savvy about those proposing easy fixes to communication problems. Avon Murphy >---------- >From: Dana Noonan[SMTP:noonan@piperinfo.com] >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 1997 5:29 PM >To: GOVPUB@LISTSERV.NODAK.EDU >Subject: Indexing - was Re: MN Govt Online 1.27M Budget Proposal > >Carl Hage wrote: > >>An area that needs development is a capability to simplify the document >>preparation process, which would include multimedia (the literal sense >>not video). Rather than creating HTML, authors would prepare and submit >>documents using word processors with templates which permit rendering >>in: >> - traditional paper form >> - PDF/Postscript "electronic paper" >> - WWW/HTML >> - ASCII email/news >> - Telephone audio/faxback >> >>Likewise, indexing information would be primarily added within source >>documents by original authors. > >Sorry, Carl, but the librarian within* will not buy this. Most folks >do not understand or have the skills needed to properly index their >own work. If the Library of Congress asked authors to index their >own works, we would never be able to find much of anything. > >> - A big emphasis should be placed on the development of standardized >> public thesaurus of index terms. This is somewhat part of services >> like Yahoo, but the concept of a thesaurus is bundled. Rather than >> paper documents that need to be odered via mail for $$$, a "live" >> thesaurus should be implemented as a WWW infosystem. Existing >> thesaurus' like the Congressional LIV, the National Council of >> State Legislatures, etc. could be used as a basis. > >This sounds like the "big database in the sky" to me. > >If the thesaurus is a moving target based on terms that authors come up >with, it will not be very useful. How does an author choose between >"waste management", "recycling", or their own pet term? Look at >how folks use meta keywords now. And how many terms should be >used to describe a document? How braod or narrow should the terms be? >Who decides? Who trains folks to index properly? > >About a century ago, I spent a good deal of time applying terms/descriptors >from the ERIC thesaurus to a collection of faculty documents at the >University of Minnesota's College of Education as a graduate project. >By the time the project was completed the book was dog-eared and I was >keenly aware of the arbitrary nature of many of the terms and my >own application of them. The resulting index was useful but would have >been a joke if the authors had been asked to find appropriate indexing >terms. > >Indexing is a skill - perhaps even an art. Computer indexes compiled >by rote programs (pick your own big time net index) suffer from the same >basic problem - no mind at work! With the wrong algorithm the index can >be worse than useless (Excite comes to mind here). No one mistakes an Alta >Vista search for a bibliography done by a skilled researcher. Why are >there so many "gate-keeper" services on the net - because the indexes >don't measure up and neither do users' search skills! > >End-users may be poor judges of the effectiveness of their >search techniques. Some studies of online catalog use found that users >were very pleased with the results of their searches - even when >the search terms were poorly chosen and the search strategy >flawed. If folks are happy with their search strategy, why shouldn't >they be delighted with their selection of indexing terms with or >without a thesaurus to back them up? > >Finally, visit www.dogpile.com and compare how different the >results are with various net search engines. The search engine >makes a difference - and if folks use one like Excite's, little >will be found that is on target. The thesaurus you envision will >be used within the confines of the search engine that a site >employs - perhaps with regretable results. > >Suggestion - hire a librarian! Seriously, most of the government >sites on the net would be improved by including librarians on the >web team. They understand different formats, search strategies, >indexing foibles, etc. Many of the best sites show the influence >of a librarian's mind at work. > >Dana Noonan >Piper Resources > >* Some folks worry about the "child within," I care more about >the "librarian within." And, yes, I live in Minnesota but I know >the wheel was invented elsewhere. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:34:57 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Collections At 12:12 PM 2/5/97 EST, Nan Badgett wrote: >How long does one wait before taking legal action against a client? I may >have to take some action, but am not sure how long is reasonable to wait. Nan, I wouldn't just wait. If you haven't already, send another bill, tacking on another late charge if you've established this policy, with a "final letter" saying that if this bill is not paid by X date, you will be forced to take legal action. And then DO IT! If your payment is overdue by only a couple of weeks, it's really too soon to go ballistic. I usually give a client three months before sending the "drop dead" letter and starting any legal action. Good luck! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:13:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Collections When the first invoice is not paid by the due date, I send another with 1.5% tacked on. By two months arrears (has happened only once--just recently), I add on more $ and say that I will take legal action if it is not paid immediately. I try calling the editor and then I call the accounting office--which I did in this recent case. I am happy to say that I am now going to get a check on Friday (finally) from the company that owed me money. Thanks to all who have been so good about sharing information on this infuriating subject. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:24:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: indexing CD-ROMs I have collected the following references to CD-ROM indexing (if anyone has other information to share, please send it along--thanks): Cousins, Garry. Conceptual indexing for CD-ROMs: Beyond Free Text Searching. Australian Society of Indexers page http://godzilla.zeta.org.au/~aussi/cousinsg.html Fidel, Raya, et al. Challenges in Indexing Electronic Text and Images. Learned Information, Inc. 1994. (See chps. 4, 5, 6 in particular) Forrester, Michael. Indexing in Hypertext Environments: the Role of User Models. The Indexer 19(4): 249-56. October 1995. Triffitt, Geraldiine. Encyclopedia of Australia: How is it Indexed? Australian Society of Indexers page http://godzilla.zeta.org.au/~aussi/TriffittG.html Zafran, E. and Bernier, M. Indexing CD-ROM products: BNA's experiences. In: Indexing in a Shrinking World: The Proceedings of the 27th Annual Meeting of ASI... (Available from ASI) Also (from Elizabeth Moys): There is a substantial article on this subject in BRIEF ENTRY, issue 2, December 1996. The article is by Kate Mertes, an ASI member, and copies of the issue can be ordered from Kate at: kmertes@riag.com Kate is also doing a roundtable on Friday afternoon on CD-ROM indexing at the ASI conference in Winston-Salem. ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:08:06 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "John R. Sullivan" <104146.1652@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Indexing government web sites (a bit long) Just wanted to respond to Dana Noonan's comments (as posted by Avon Murphy) about "the problems of both author-generated indexes and 'automated' indexes." I've often seen the argument made on this list that authors should not create their own indexes. I disagree 100 percent with that view, especially in the context of the work that I produce (software manuals and on-line help). I have always done my own indexes and always will -- for a number of reasons: 1. My company would never spend the money to hire a "real" indexer. 2. In most cases the schedule simply wouldn't allow it. 3. I know my audience and my subject very well. In an ideal world, our documentation might benefit from having a professionally prepared index (although I would never be able to convince anyone here that the added value would be worth the cost). It would also be much improved if we had a graphic designer, an editor (other than me), and a team of proofreaders. The reality is that there's only me. I create my indexes using embedded entries in WinWord. I'm very aware of the limitations of that approach, but given how frequently the docs are revised and the tight schedules we face, there's really no alternative. I'll grant that a "professional" index prepared by someone other than the author can, in many cases, add value to a book or an on-line help file. However, the reality is that I and many others in my position don't have that luxury. That doesn't mean that the indexes I create are inadequate. I have the benefit of years of feedback from our customers about what's good/bad in the docs, and I continue to "tweak" the index entries to accommodate their needs. Most authors probably aren't willing to make the effort to learn how to index -- and therefore should leave such work to those who know what they're doing. However, I plan to learn as much as I can about indexing so that I can improve my own indexes. When I have a better grasp of the indexing task, I will be even better qualified to create my own indexes. Just my 2 cents' worth. John R. Sullivan Documentation Manager Concentric Data Systems Westborough MA jsulliva@walldata.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:07:36 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Collections In-Reply-To: <199702060501.XAA06849@mixcom.mixcom.com> >If your payment is overdue by only a couple of weeks, it's really too soon >to go ballistic. I usually give a client three months before sending the >"drop dead" letter and starting any legal action. Good luck! In between one of the follow-up invoices and the "drop dead" letter, there's nothing stopping you from calling the accounting dept. directly. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:41:39 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: South Central Chapter Meeting - Houston, TX AMERICAN SOCIETY OF INDEXERS South Central Chapter SPRING MEETING, 1997 FACING THE TEXT: CONTENT ANALYSIS AND ENTRY SELECTION FROM TEXTBOOKS TO SCHOLARLY BOOKS A Practical Workshop Presented by Do Mi Stauber A participatory workshop, Facing the Text will focus on the process of indexing, surveying the steps that indexers folllow to interpret texts and create index structures. Hands-on examples will be used from a variety of works. Among the features to be presented are main topics, wording choices, index structure, and cross references. Beginners and experienced indexers alike should benefit from this workshop. Do Mi Stauber is a free-lance indexer from Eugene, Oregon. She has been a full-time indexer of books in the social sciences, humanities, and government documents for the last eleven years. Most recently, she is the author of "Jewels in the Cavern: Indexing scholarly books" (Key Words, March/April, 1996) DATE: March 1, 1997 (Saturday) LOCATION: Hyatt Regency Houston Airport Hotel, 15747 JFK Blvd., Houston, TX 77032 For REGISTRATION forms and information, CONTACT: Ellen Hanks, 210-567-2425 or via E-Mail at hanks@uthscsa.edu or Joanne Clendenen at 713-469-4461 or via E-Mail at c-jec@worldnet.att.net SCHEDULE OF EVENTS: 9:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. Facing the Text, Part I 12:00 p.m. - 1:00 p.m. Luncheon Buffet at Conference Hotel 1:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. Facing the Text, Part II 4:00 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. South Central Chapter, ASI Business Meeting COSTS: $50.00 per ASI member $60.00 per non-member Registration includes the all-day workshop, plus mini-continental breakfast, hot buffet lunch and post-lunch snacks. LODGING: $65.00 per night Call the Hyatt Regency at 281-442-8000 to reserve a room. In order to receive the above rate, you must mention the American Society of Indexers conference, and in order to guarantee availability, you must place your reservation by February 14, 1997. After that date, reservations will be accepted on a space- and rate-available basis. GETTING THERE: The Hyatt Regency is located on the West side of JFK Blvd. on the way out of the Intercontinental Airport. If you are coming by plane, the airport is about 1/2 mile from the hotel. The Hyatt provides shuttle service from the airport to the hotel. Ask about the shuttle when you make reservations. For those driving in, JFK Blvd. is east of I-45 off of Beltway 8 (Sam Houston Tollway). Drive north on JFK Blvd. toward the airport. The Hyatt Regency is on the left. The hotel has a spacious parking lot and does not offer valet parking. < +> = * = < +> = * = < +> = * = < + > Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services njsmith@bga.com voice/fax +1.512.244.2767 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:39:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Author's opinions I'm working on a book on the internation liberal order and am now in a section titled "Hegemony." The author has been discussing several means of approaching this concept. Then he has about 1 1/2 pages of discussion of how his approach to the topic differs from another author, Cox. Would it be appropriate to include this entry: Hegemony author's interpretation It seems strange to do this since the entire discussion of hegemony is the author's, yet here he has specifically used the first person or, perhaps Hegemony difference between author's and Cox's interpretations Should I just use: Hegemony differing interpretations But that covers the whole section and doesn't specify that this page and an half deal specifically with the author's differences from Cox's interpretation. Any guidance would be appreciated. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 02:35:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Author indexes Leise rule of indexing #1: "There are no rules, only contexts" As with many other areas of indexing, author-prepared indexes are neither absolutely good nor bad. Depends. One problem, it appears to me, is when authors don't know about indexing and what it really takes to prepare a good index, but think they do. Result: bad index. Indexing is a completely different skill from writing. However, if the writer can index, wants to, and has the time to, then why not. After all, if I have the skill and time to do my own plumbing, I will. But since I don't, I hire the plumber who makes a living doing the work and knows how to do it well and efficiently. Seems to me that indexing is the same. Until such time as it is illegal for anyone other than a certified indexer to prepare an indexer, that is. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 00:00:07 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Author's opinions Fred wrote: >I'm working on a book on the internation liberal order and am now in a >section titled "Hegemony." The author has been discussing several means of >approaching this concept. Then he has about 1 1/2 pages of discussion of how >his approach to the topic differs from another author, Cox. > >Would it be appropriate to include this entry: > >Hegemony > author's interpretation > >It seems strange to do this since the entire discussion of hegemony is the >author's, yet here he has specifically used the first person > >or, perhaps > >Hegemony > difference between author's and Cox's interpretations > >Should I just use: > >Hegemony > differing interpretations > >But that covers the whole section and doesn't specify that this page and an >half deal specifically with the author's differences from Cox's >interpretation. > How about: Hegemony Cox's vs. author's approach to or Hegemony Cox vs. author on Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:05:00 GMT0 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Cindex - third party software Apparently according to Leverage Technologies there is an upgrade to Cindex which involves a change to the NDX file format. Thus upgrades are required for Leverage Technologies addons, for which they are charging $30 each. Prospective buyers of Cindex or third party software may like to be aware of this before becoming captive customers for such software. _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:41:02 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: advance notice of Futureproof Indexer AusSI 1997 Conference Hi Just like to give early notice of the AusSI 1997 conference: It will be on 27-28 Sep 1997 and will be held at Mountain Heritage Country House Retreat, Katoomba, NSW, Australia - 1 to 2 hours drive west of Sydney centre in the famous Blue Mountains. plenty of bushwalking, driving and sightseeing here! price and program details to come See http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/futureproof.html for the program in the next few months... Contact: Michael Wyatt (keyword@ozemai.com.au), phone: 02 9331 7764 (ISD +61-2-9331 7764) fax: 02 9331 7785 (ISD +61-2-9331 7785) Postal: Australian Society of Indexers (NSW Branch) 1997 Conference, PO Box R598, Royal Exchange NSW 1225 Australia Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-93986726 (h) +61-2-94393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-94383729 (w), fax +61-2-96623037 (h) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 06:51:18 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: Dance Flurry Festival Hello: Is anyone on this list planning to be at the Dance Flurry Festival in Saratoga Springs, NY next weekend? If you are, let me know offline. It would be great to meet for lunch or dinner. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Service Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:24:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Subject: Re: Cindex - third party software John, Who are Leverage Technologies and what are their Cindex addons? Thanks. John Sampson wrote: > > Apparently according to Leverage Technologies there is an upgrade to > Cindex which involves a change to the NDX file format. Thus upgrades are > required for Leverage Technologies addons, for which they are charging > $30 each. Prospective buyers of Cindex or third party software may like > to be aware of this before becoming captive customers for such software. > > _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:41:17 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cynthia Bertelsen Subject: Re: Cindex - third party software I just discovered them the other day myself. They are a company that produces add-ons to CINDEX that make some functions go faster (streamlining, I guess, is the word). For example, they make something called Post/Check which "analyzes an index file and reports double (or multiple) postings...Options control the type of entries compared as well as the scope, range, coverage, and depth of the comparison." Their homepage is: http://www.cleveland.net/levtech/ At 09:24 AM 2/6/97 -0500, Ann Norcross wrote: >John, > >Who are Leverage Technologies and what are their Cindex addons? Thanks. > > > >John Sampson wrote: >> >> Apparently according to Leverage Technologies there is an upgrade to >> Cindex which involves a change to the NDX file format. Thus upgrades are >> required for Leverage Technologies addons, for which they are charging >> $30 each. Prospective buyers of Cindex or third party software may like >> to be aware of this before becoming captive customers for such software. >> >> _John Sampson_ > > ***************************************** Cynthia D. Bertelsen--Indexer cbertel@usit.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:49:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Paul Corrington Subject: Re: cd-rom indexing / Brief Entry I read your posting regarding CD-rom indexing. I'm very interested in this topic. Would it be possible to talk someone out of a photocopy of this article. I would like to learn more about legal indexing. If you are willing to share, please contact me off-line Thanks...Paul Paul Corri@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:08:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "David K. Ream" Subject: Third-party software A recent posting made note of the current upgrade V6.1 for Indexing Research's Cindex software and corresponding updates to Leverage Technologies' utilities. As is common with all software, that changes over time providing more features and capabilities, it is necessary to make changes to the underlying data structures that store this information in the files used by the software. This is as true of specialized software, such as Cindex, as it is of highly-used software, such as Microsoft's Word. One way that software vendors can, as a business, provide new and improved software is by charging for upgrades to offset the development and distribution costs. (Another way is to charge annual maintenance fees though this is more common on mainframe rather than personal computer systems.) LevTech does provide various utilities that enhance or augment Cindex in selective ways that may assist an indexer in easing certain mechanical tasks, automate quality control checking, or perform specialized tasks, for example those occurring in legal indexing, that go beyond Cindex's more generic features. These companion utilities often need to read, or otherwise get information from, the index files and thus, are captive to the format of these files. LevTech also adds features to its utilities over time as well. These utilities can be found on our home page http://www.lvt.com/levtech/ under the indexing software area. To avoid confusion, none of these utilities are required to run/operate Cindex, nor needed to produce indexes from Cindex. Cindex is complete and stands on its own as an index preparation software package. However, just as add-on software to Microsoft Word must be updated when Word's internal format is changed, LevTech must update its panel of utilities. If a user updates his/her Cindex software without a corresponding update to any utility he/she may be using, then LevTech cannot guarantee continued operation of the utility. When a user updates, they get the current version of the utility with any features added since their last purchase or update. Additionally, they get a new manual. I hope this clarifies any questions about the LevTech utilities vis-=E0-vis the Cindex upgrade. Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any other specific questions. Dave Ream LevTech ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:38:59 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: author-generated indexes, Wilson Award John R. Sullivan wrote: > >Most authors probably aren't willing to make the effort to learn how to index -- >and therefore should leave such work to those who know what they're doing. >However, I plan to learn as much as I can about indexing so that I can improve >my own indexes. When I have a better grasp of the indexing task, I will be even >better qualified to create my own indexes. > This is an example of the weakness of generalizations. Obviously John cares about his indexes and is working to make them usable tools. His presence on Index-L attests to his commitment to learning and growing. ----- Speaking of learning and growing, recently there has been some discussion about the Wilson Award on this list. I don't know what happened when one of the submitters failed to receive his book back (and I hope we can find out), but the books submitted for consideration for the Wilson Award were returned to the submitters shortly after the judging, along with a letter of acknowledgment. We are grateful to anyone who lets us know that he or she did not receive a letter or have the book returned, so that we can find out what went wrong and prevent its happening again. The indexers who participate as judges in the Wilson Award process are donating their time-- including two to three days at judging time. Their expenses are reimbursed only in part (transportation, lodging, and one lunch), and they usually have to leave work-in-process (we all know how crowded indexers' schedules can be) in order to attend the judging. The written evaluations are supplemented by a great deal of discussion (remember the judges have no idea of who the indexers are) for those books that make it to the final stages. Some indexes are set aside quickly, if they do not meet the basic criteria, using a checklist. As for the committee's public statements being "platitudinous," I would point out that using specific examples carries the risk of revealing the source, so the committee carefully avoids this practice. When we stated that double posting errors occurred, for example, we assumed that indexers knew what we meant. We wanted very much to give the award, which is for excellence in indexing--not for the "best index of the year." But this sort of problem is too glaring: jewelry, 23-25 diamond, 48 ruby, 122 sapphire, 88 sapphire. 5 cutting methods, 6 industrial uses of, 156-158 medical uses of, 190 That is--no "jewelry" under "sapphire" when it appears under "jewelry." This is a made-up example, of course. If this problem had occurred only once, it might have been overlooked, but it occurred in different contexts in all of the final contenders. One index was especially innovative and interesting, but double posting errors were frequent, and the index structure forced the user to use multiple search strategies to find material. Some essential cross-references were simply not there. I (or a publisher for whom I worked) have submitted indexes to the Wilson Award, and I have not received any feedback. In one case I assumed that the winning index was simply better than mine, or more interesting, or more innovative. In another case the editor had changed the alphabetization after I finished the index, causing what I consider errors--and the structure included an unusual alphabetizing method as well, without an explanatory note at the beginning of the index. I don't know if the publisher received the book back. I did receive my own book back--many months after the judging, at a time when ASI had no administrative office. Mr. Rooney's suggestion for an acknowledgment of submission is an excellent one, and we are working on implementing it. For indexers, each project is a new beginning. And if we as indexers learn anything from the Wilson Award process, it should be to pay attention to detail, and each time we start a new index we have a new chance to do just that. Elinor Lindheimer Immediate Past President American Society of Indexers elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:00:22 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: index user's pet peeve I promised to pass along a friend's pet peeve about indexes: He would like to see an entry for "Maps," followed by subentries for each map appearing in the book. I told him that space requirements might preclude such an entry, but that I'd pass it on. Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:04:29 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Good Indexer Subject: Re: Dance Flurry Festival Willa: is this the weekend of February 15? I'm planning to go to Pittsfield, Mass. Is Saratoga SpringS on the way? It would be nice to meet. I've seen your postings and you seem to be really into indexing. Suellen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:06:00 GMT0 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Re: Cindex - third party software > Who are Leverage Technologies and what are their Cindex addons? Thanks. I don't have their literature to hand but their address is: Leverage Technologies Inc, 9519 Greystone Parkway, Cleveland, OH 44141-2939. Tel (216) 838-1203 Voice or Fax. E-mail: info@lvt.com Web home page: http://www.lvt.com/levtech/ My remarks about them were by way of consumer information. I don't dispute their right to charge what they like for upgrades, but I don't see why people should not know about such charges as it might affect their buying decisions for Cindex or Leverage Technology products. _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:23:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: index user's pet peeve At 10:00 AM 2/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >I promised to pass along a friend's pet peeve about indexes: He would like >to see an entry for "Maps," followed by subentries for each map appearing in >the book. I told him that space requirements might preclude such an entry, >but that I'd pass it on. Can you elaborate a bit? What kind of book? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:15:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Willa MacAllen Organization: MacAllen's Information Service Subject: New Freelance Stite FWIW, someone on copyedit list provided the address for this relatively new site for freelancers in the world of publishing. It's hard to know how reliable the site is, but its address is as follows: http://www.FreelanceOnline.com/whoweare.html Happy Friday :-)! Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Services Librarian/Technical Writer Boston macallen@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:25:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Ranck Subject: Database indexing software I am a relatively new member of this list. I work in the Harvard University Development office, where we are considering a scanning project to keep in digital format some of our paper records. As indexing these images will be vital for future information retrieval, I would like to know if any of you are aware of indexing software specific to this type of project. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you. JR ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:17:50 -0500 Reply-To: minding@world.std.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: George Fowler Organization: George Wilhelm Fowler Subject: Re: Database indexing software John Ranck wrote: > I am a relatively new member of this list. I work in the Harvard > University Development office, where we are considering a scanning > project to keep in digital format some of our paper records. As > indexing these images will be vital for future information retrieval, > I would like to know if any of you are aware of indexing software > specific to this type of project. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Hi John, I saw your message and thought I'd introduce myself. I can't offer any suggestions because I too am new to the list. I'm also new to indexing. I indexed a meditation book called _Mindfulness In Plain English_ by Bhante Gunaratana last year and thoroughly enjoyed it. (It helps to have an interest in something one is indexng.) I hope to index others books - psychology, technical, text, etc. - but in the mean time, I've applied for a computer position at the Kennedy school. One must eat! I, for one, would like to hear more about your project. That might also help others advise you. As for the hardware: are you on a mainframe, network, using PCs or Macs? How many people will be using the software What's your budget for software? An inquiring mind wants to know. Best luck, George Fowler -- email: minding@world.std.com WWW: http://world.std.com/~minding/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:26:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: maps (index user's pet peeve) Elinor wrote: >I promised to pass along a friend's pet peeve about indexes: He would like >to see an entry for "Maps," followed by subentries for each map appearing in >the book. I told him that space requirements might preclude such an entry, >but that I'd pass it on. This is interesting. I agree that space could be a problem if there were a lot of them and you listed each one separately. On the other hand, I often find myself wanting to put them in, either subheads called "map(s)" under the area or as a main head, but not doing it because I vaguely feel that I shouldn't (maybe because they're usually listed at the beginning of the book. Yes, that's it.). Do Mi, thinking as she types. By the way, I lost all of my email today (Thurs 2/6) so if anyone wrote me, please try again. :-( ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:36:53 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: index user's pet peeve Dick Evans asked me to elaborate on this: >>I promised to pass along a friend's pet peeve about indexes: He would like >>to see an entry for "Maps," followed by subentries for each map appearing in >>the book. I told him that space requirements might preclude such an entry, >>but that I'd pass it on. Sorry, I can't...I presume he means books with maps in them--i.e., history, geography, political science, etc. DoMi pointed out that there is usually a list of maps in the beginning of the book, which is what I told my friend, but he insisted he wanted them in the index. Space seems to be the reason for not doing so. Elinor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:45:33 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate McCain Subject: Annoucement of grant award DOCUMENTATION ABSTRACTS, INC. BOARD OF DIRECTORS THE INFORMATION SCIENCE ABSTRACTS (ISA) RESEARCH GRANT TO BE AWARDED BY DOCUMENTATION ABSTRACTS, INC. New 8ork, NY, January 31 -- The Board of Directors of Documentation Abstracts, Inc. (DAI) announces it will award the Information Science Abstracts (ISA) Research Grant of $1,500 in 1997. This grant is awarded annually by DAI to one or more information professionals to conduct a research project oriented toward the study of the primary or secondary literature of information science. All applicants for the ISA Research Grant must be information professionals and hold a graduate degree in library or information science. No individuals who are associated with ISA are eligible. This includes members of the Board of Directors of DAI, employees of Plenum Publishing Corporation, SilverPlatter, and KRI/Dialog. Applicants must submit a completed application package by August 31, 1997 outlining the scope and nature of the proposed project, providing evidence of an established methodology and a viable research design. Examples of possible topics for research include: the use of information resources, comparison of tools, quality of the literature, and bibliometric analysis. Recipients of previous ISA grants have researched such topics as: ISA and ARIST: Linkages to Enhance Literature Searching, A Model for Quantitative and Qualitative Database Evaluation Using the ISA Database, and Selecting Literature on Bibliometrics Through Bradford's Law. The goal of the research must be to produce a publishable paper. Half the amount of the $1,500 grant will be paid upon announce- ment of the award and the balance will be paid upon successful completion of the research project. In addition to the cash award, access to ISA CD-ROM will be provided for the length of the grant. Announcement of the award will be made December 1, 1997. Documentation Abstracts, Inc. is owner/sponsor of the monthly abstracting and indexing publication, Information Science Abstracts (ISA), published for DAI by Plenum Publishing Corporation. Inter- national in scope, ISA provides references to and abstracts of the useful literature in the fields of information science and library science dating back to 1966. Its coverage extends to journal articles from over 400 journals, to conference proceedings, books, reports and patents. The entire file is available for searching via Dialog Fil 202 and on SilverPlatter CD-ROM. .nf CONTACT: For further information and for application instructions, Judith E. Watson, CAS P.O. Box 3012, Columbus OH 43210 Phone 614/447-3662, E-mail:jwatson@cas.org Fax 614/461-7158 Board of Directors, Documentation Abstracts, Inc. Signe E. Larson (SLA), Chair Judith E. Watson (ACS/CINF), Vice-Chair Ben-Ami Lipetz (ASI) Treasurer Katherine W. McCain (ALISE)Secretary Norman Howden (ALA) Bonnie Maxwell (ASIS) Randall W. Marcinko (ASIDIC) Paul Wrynn (MLA) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:06:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DBRENNER@AOL.COM Subject: Re: index user's pet peeve I often index travel books that have several maps, sometimes bunched, sometimes scattered, that are not typically detailed in the front matter in a separate List of Illustrations or Maps. In this context, a reference such as: maps: access routes, XXX; historic sites, XXX would be appreciated. Thanks for the reminder. Diane Brenner PO Box 206 Worthington, MA 01098 413-238-5593 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 19:38:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Sumaria Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Database indexing software >> On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 09:25:23 -0500, >> jranck@harvard.edu (John Ranck) said: J> I am a relatively new member of this list. I work in the Harvard University J> Development office, where we are considering a scanning project to keep in J> digital format some of our paper records. As indexing these images will be J> vital for future information retrieval, I would like to know if any of you J> are aware of indexing software specific to this type of project. Cornell University has some projects which are headed roughly in the same direction. Here's part of an RFC (Internet Request for Comments) which describes one proposal in more detail. Maybe the author can help with specific indexing questions. Network Working Group W. Turner Request for Comments: 1691 LTD Category: Informational August 1994 The Document Architecture for the Cornell Digital Library Abstract This memo defines an architecture for the storage and retrieval of the digital representations for books, journals, photographic images, etc., which are collected in a large organized digital library. Author's Address William Turner Library Technology 502 Olin Library Cornell University Ithaca, NY 14853 Phone: 607-255-9098 Fax: 607-255-9346 EMail: wrt1@cornell.edu The full text of the RFC is at ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1691.txt. There's another project called "Dienst" which also deals with this sort of thing. Here are the authors: Carl Lagoze cjl2@cornell.edu James Davis davis@dri.cornell.edu -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 937-255-3688 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:30:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Saving computer files What is everybody's current practice re saving the computer files of completed indexes. Last year I saved all that material on diskettes, considering them business records, and archiving the diskettes with my print materials in files. For a going business with 50-100 indexes a year, that got overwhelming. I'm wondering if that's really necessary. It would be less cumbersome to save the files for a period of time until the book is in print -- arbitrarily 4 months, say -- and then just reformat the file, deleting the old index. What say you all? Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:48:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: indexer@INETCOM.NET Subject: Re: Saving computer files Janet wrote: >What is everybody's current practice re saving the computer files of >completed indexes. Last year I saved all that material on diskettes, >considering them business records, and archiving the diskettes with my print >materials in files.... > >... It would be less cumbersome to >save the files for a period of time until the book is in print -- arbitrarily >4 months, say -- and then just reformat the file, deleting the old index. Janet, I save _every_ file. A small but increasing fraction of my work consists of updates of books I've indexed previously. I charge a reduced rate for such projects, and when changes are minor relative the last edition, even at a reduced rate it's like pushing [let's see, the baby analogy is a little violent], oh yeah ducks in the water. The technique I use utilizing the GROUP command in Cindex, which I've been meaning to submit an article to Keywords about for years, can make the project a cakewalk. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 http://www2.inet.net/~indexer/kjm.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:14:30 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: index user's pet peeve I index el-hi and college textbooks fairly regularly, and in junior-high history texts I am required to include a modifier for each type of information presentation. This was recently talked about some here. So, when there is a map, the reference locator looks like: ^m123^ (where carats represent italics). A typical entry might be: Western Plateaus, ^mP4-P7^, 20, ^m20^, ^f24^, ^i24^ Where the "P" is a backmatter designation, the "f" is a designation for a "feature" (kind of a sidebar), and the "i" is for illlustrations of any nature. Note the repetition of page numbers required. Two points. First, here is a class of books (this is standard locator notation practice in the textbook field for this age level--the letters may vary slightly) in which maps are designated. However, the main entry for maps contains only information about maps in general--how to use them, etc. Second, hearkening to an article in the May/Jun/Jul/Aug ^Key Words^ by Dr. Weinberg, is that these textbooks expect the kids to seek very elaborate locator information from an index. Do we thereby teach them to expect this kind of information in an index? Index locator structures in most books and textbooks only get simpler through high school and college levels (although I'm not certain whether high-schoool history texts use this notation or not). I'm curious about the pedagogical theory here. I know that in part these indexes are broken down in such detail in order to show the potential purchaser the level of coverage of the subject matter. I wish I knew if the users found it useful. It is true that the page spreads of the texts are very complex, so giving more complex locator information could help. I'm just wondering if it does, actually. And so, do we stop giving as elaborate a locator structure (beyond junior high) because it's no longer needed (users "look around" on the page more?), or do we stop because it's expensive to pay indexers for that kind of breakdown, or is it really just a function of space and the truth is it would be helpful, or...? Just wondering. I stated in the recent discussion that I try to make my locator structure as simple as it can be and still be useful--that is, not referencing illustrations as separate within a continuous textual discussion unless there is good reason to (as in an art history). But Elinor's friend's query has got me thinking about this again. --Victoria Baker ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 20:39:06 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Saving computer files In-Reply-To: <199702080231.SAA16309@mail5> Thought I am not in the business, I would suggest with the number of removable drives that can hold over 100mb and some up to 230mb per disk would be a good storage alternatives to individual diskettes. Roberta Horowitz On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > What is everybody's current practice re saving the computer files of > completed indexes. Last year I saved all that material on diskettes, > considering them business records, and archiving the diskettes with my print > materials in files. For a going business with 50-100 indexes a year, that > got overwhelming. > > I'm wondering if that's really necessary. It would be less cumbersome to > save the files for a period of time until the book is in print -- arbitrarily > 4 months, say -- and then just reformat the file, deleting the old index. > > What say you all? > > Janet Perlman > Southwest Indexing >