From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 2-SEP-1996 19:46:31.52 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9608E" Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 19:24:23 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9608E" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:34:11 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: checklists So far I've only gotten 2 responses to my request for people's checklists. I'm hoping to get enough to compile them into a section for the common questions and another for unusual ones. If you don't feel like sending me your whole list, how about just the questions you think might be unusual, or specific to your own needs? You never know who else can be of help, or who you might give a good idea to. (To whom you might give a good idea?) I feel I have arrived at More Than Part Time as I have for the first time got 2 indexes in house. Not sleeping much, but Feeling Good. Might need to borrow Lynne's family, if they can cope with coming to Martha's Vineyard! Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:17:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: References for Indexers I would like to thank everyone who sent in their lists of references that they use during the indexing process. (Don't forget that if you haven't sent anything yet that there's still time to share.) The results of this little exercise, as well as a list of standard references for indexers, will be published in a future issue of Keywords. Thanks again, all. ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:38:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: "vetting"? Like Lynn, I look to make sure all the pages are there and readable. I also make sure that blanks, if any, are counted properly. For example, if the style of the book is to have each new chapter start on a recto (right-hand) page, then any chapter that ends on a recto will have to have a blank verso (left-hand) page before the next chapter. Parts title pages will typically require blanks, too. The blanks will not have page numbers printed on them, but they still have to have page numbers assigned. I also look at figures, illustrations, tables, etc., if any, to see if there are any potential oddities (from an indexing standpoint). For example, if the caption appears on the facing page rather than the same page as the illustration, does the publisher want the locator to reference the caption or the illustration itself? If there are plates (e.g., color illustrations), will they have page numbers or be skipped in the numbering? And last, I look to see that all *parts* of the book are present. If the table of contents says there's going to be a bibliography, I want to see that bibliography (which I use for checking names, e.g., if the author uses only last names in the text--shame, shame!). Likewise, I look for any preface, introduction, list of abbreviations, list of illustrations, appendixes, etc., that are supposed to be there. It's not that I'll necessarily index all of those, but I'll want to make sure that the pagination is right. Sure, indexing software will let me fix the locators later, but who needs it!? And then Janet said: >So Lynn ... I hope you appreciate your good fortune. And for the rest of you >who aren't as lucky, you have more company than you think! Quite right, of course. I would never ask my husband to do any of those tasks; he doesn't have the eye for it--hell, he can't even program the VCR! But that doesn't mean he can't help me out when I have a crunch: doing my share as well as his own of feeding the kids, driving them to gymnastics, doing the laundry, emptying litter boxes . . . oh, just all sorts of things he's real good at. (I like to think I do the same for him when he has a tight deadline.) Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 00:03:33 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christi Diamond Subject: Indexing books for sale Hi again, Wow, I got an overwhelming response to my "quick note" - 30 to be exact (as I know you indexers are ;-)). Thank you all for responding. To be fair, I'm going to respond in the order of the messages I received. But I thought it would help people out if I listed the books. If you wouldn't mind, if you already responded and find you already have all of the books, please send me another email at cdiamond@hevanet.com so I can take you off the list of who I have to respond to. Here are the books: Nancy Mulvany's _Indexing Books_ NFAIS's _Guide to Careers in Abstracting & Indexing_ ASI's: _Starting an Indexing Business, 2nd ed._ _Running Your Indexing Business_ _Oral History Vol.1_ Chicago's Chapter on Indexes 14th ed. I'm asking $5.00 less than the ASI's members' price, which I think is quite fair seeing as the books are still brand new (an especially good deal for non-members). Thanks again and I'll get back to all of you as soon as I can unless you ask me to take you off the list. Christi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 06:09:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tips for getting first jobs I'm wondering how people on this list got their first job. I'm sttil at the very beginning of the marketing process--and sometimes feel as though I will never get the first job. Would people be willing to share how they got their first job? Maybe it would give me some pointers on where to look for work. I've contacted between 50-75 publishers with no work yet. I guess that sounds average from what I've heard others say, but am curious to hear how others started. I'll compile and post the responses if I get enough interest in this question. Thanks for your help in advance. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's Information Service 286 Chestnut Hill AVe., #20 Brighton, MA 02135 WMacallen@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:14:36 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Tips for getting first jobs Willa asked, >I'm wondering how people on this list got their first job. I started telling everyone I met, knew, could think of, that I was starting indexing, and eventually said to my rabbi, "I'm indexing books now. Do you know anyone writing a non-fiction book?" "I am. You can index mine." That was it. Some of you will remember the great Rabbi's Book discussion of October, 1995 here on Index-L. BTW, we agreed on a fee of $1/page. He was delighted as he'd been told it would cost him nearly $1,000, and I was delighted to get a first book. I would have done it for free! Maybe I should have donated some of it to the temple's new building fund. Maybe I still will. I got my second job because of this list. I had participated in a discussion about using Pagemaker for embedded indexes and a production manager had done a search of the archives on Pagemaker, found my email, and contacted me!! I've so far done 3 books for that company. Morals: 1. Tell everyone. 2. Participate in list discussions. 3. I sat here for 3 minutes trying to think up a clever/humorous #3 and can't. Rachel PS I've gotten several checklists and there are some great questions there. If anyone has a checklist but doesn't feel like sending me the whole thing, how about just your questions that you think might be different from what others ask. I'll compile it and post it as soon as I finish up my 2 indexes (if I'm living at that point). RR Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:30:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tips for getting first jobs In a message dated 96-08-30 06:12:07 EDT, you write: << I'm wondering how people on this list got their first job. >> It depends on how you define "first job." I retired from corporate life in '92 but went back as a contract tech writer. While under contract, I promoted myself as an index "expert" and volunteered to help other writers with their indexers. In six months I developed a reputation as the person to got to with indexes. Soon thereafter one of my colleagues who was the corporate rep to the ASIS standards committee was speaking at a conference somewhere and one of the attendees asked her if she knew of any indexers in the Raleigh area. That led to my first client. I continued the contract tech writing while doing indexes part time. Several months alter there was an article in the local paper about a local publisher who was preapring a series of Internet books. I called the publisher and landed my second client. My third was a contact I made at the San Diego ASI conference. By that time, I dropped the tech writing and began indexing full time. The fourth was a referral from another indexer, the fifth was a delayed reaction (2 years) from another contact I made in San Diego. And so it goes. Frankly, I have had zero results from simply marketing myself cold. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:00:03 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference Forwarding message from Ingrid Becher, Secretary, Colorado Chapter, American Society of Indexers: --------------- Forwarded Message --------------- Second Annual Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference Boulder Public Library Main Branch, Boulder, Colorado October 12, 1995 - 9:00 am to 5:00 pm SPANNING THE NATION FOR INDEXING EXPERTISE Please join us for the Second Annual Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference on October 12 at the Boulder Public Library Main Branch in Boulder, Colorado. Our featured speakers will be Barbara Cohen from Champaign, Illinois; Susan Klement fromTucson, Arizona; and Ann Blum from Westborough, Massachusetts. All three of our speakers were here in Colorado for the Annual Conference of the American Society of Indexers in May and enjoyed themselves so much then that they were all anxious to return to be with us for our fall conference. A number of you met Barbara, Susan, and Ann at that time and no doubt will enjoy renewing your acquaintances with them this fall at what will be surely a less hectic gathering of indexers. OUR SESSIONS Barbara Cohen will begin our conference day with a presentation entitled "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" in which she will discuss how to establish critical standards for indexes, how to determine what is indexable in the text, and how to develop a set of rules before starting each indexing project, including ideas on thesaurus building and vocabulary control. Barbara has tailored her presentation to reach indexers of all levels and abilities. After a short break, we will divide into small groups to complete an hours' worth of hands-on exercises under Barbara's tutelage. Following lunch, Susan Klement will speak on "Open-System Indexing." Susan will first help us understand the differences between open-system indexes (ongoing projects, journals, newspapers) as opposed to closed-system indexes (back-of-the-book indexing). Then she will give us pointers on how to go about marketing ourselves as open system indexers and how to find open-system projects, indexing opportunities, she contends, that while often difficult to pinpoint are of almost unlimited potential. Ann Blum will speak to us following our afternoon break. We are most fortunate to have Ann join us for our conference. Currently the President of the American Society of Indexers, she will spend a few minutes giving us an update on what is happening with ASI at the national level. Following this she will talk for an hour or so on "Indexing with Efficiency." Given her hectic schedule these days, this is no doubt an area in which she has developed some level of expertise. Ann will show us how to cut corners, save time without cutting quality in our indexing work. OUR SPEAKERS Barbara Cohen, "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" Concurrently Secretary of the American Society of Indexers and its Publicity Coordinator, Barbara has been a freelance copy editor and professional indexer since 1984, specializing in back-of-the-bookindexing and cumulative indexing of periodicals in the social sciences and the humanities. In 1991 she began training other indexers. Before finding her niche as an indexer, Barbara pursued a career as an archaeologist. Susan Klement, "Open-System Indexing" After earning a degree in library science, Susan operated her firm, Information Resources,in Toronto from 1969 to 1991, when she moved to Tucson, Arizona. She has taught several courses in indexing to both Canadian and U.S. audiences. Susan was codirector of a project to index provincial statutes, indexed the Canadian Bank Act and several other complex monographs, and has indexed newspapers and business periodicals for many years. In addition to indexing, Susan creates and sells bead jewelry. Ann Blum, "ASI Update"/"Indexing with Efficiency" After a number of years of service to the indexing community, Ann is now the President of the American Society of Indexers. She also keeps active in the Massachusetts Chapter of ASI and is currently its Treasurer. When not engaged in her national duties, Ann runs a freelance indexing service from her home in Westborough, Massachusetts, specializing in medical indexing. SCHEDULE 8:30 - 9:00 Registration 9:00 -10:45 Barbara Cohen "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" (lecture) 10:45 -11:00 Morning Break 11:00 - 12:00 Barbara Cohen "Intellectual Analysis in Indexing" (exercises) 12:00 - 1:30 Lunch Break 1:30 - 3:30 Susan Klement "Open-System and Closed-System Indexing" 3:30 - 3:45 Afternoon Break 3:45 - 5:00 Ann Blum "ASI Update"/"Indexing with Efficiency" CONFERENCE DAY PARTICULARS Those who register for the Second Annual Rocky Mountain Indexing Conference prior to October 1st will receive a confirmation by mail that will include a map on how to reach the Boulder Public Library and where to park. Refreshments will be provided during the morning and afternoon breaks but you are on your own for lunch. The library is located three blocks from the Pearl Street Mall, site of a variety of lunchtime options, or there are anumber of restaurants within driving distance of the library. Leaving your library parking space at lunch, however, is not recommended as this particular Saturday is, unfortunately for us, a home date for the University of Colorado football team, and parking around Boulder is at a premium especially during the afternoon hours. So find a small group to join for lunch on the mall or bring a lunch and share an hour on the library lawn with a colleague or two. Conference Fees ASI Members NonMembers By October 1 $40.00 $45.00 By October 11 $50.00 $55.00 Day of conference $60.00 $60.00 Registration Form Name______________________________________________ Company___________________________________________ Address___________________________________________ City/State/Zip____________________________________ Telephone_________________________________________ Please return this form and payment to Ingrid Becher, 1701 Bluebell Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302. For Further Information Please Contact Douglas J. Easton, Chair, Colorado Chapter of ASI, (970)282-9294, Ingrid Becher, Secretary, Colorado Chapter of ASI, (303)449-1188 or ihbecher@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:28:54 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tips for getting first jobs Willa, I'm now a full-timer, having returned to indexing after a hiatus of doing other things for many years. The first time around, way back when, my clients arose out of on-the-job contacts after I left that job to "stay at home" with child #1. However, when I returned to indexing, it wasn't so easy. Different times, new city, etc. My experience parallels Dick's. My first client was a local publisher, and I worked for them for quite a few years. Client #2 was from a cold call, but I met the client shortly thereafter at one of the national conferences and cemented the relationship. Over the years I've made a lot of contacts at national conferences -- both with other indexers, who can, and do, refer clients if they are busy or if an offered book is out of their field, and with potential cients. I can't encourage you enough to participate in ASI activities -- local groups by all means, and national meetings if you possibly can. It'll be a good investment in your indexing business. Client #3 was from a cold "call" (letter, actually, one of my many marketing letters). Client #4 was a referral from another indexer. So they come at you from all sides. As Rachel said, you need to keep mentioning it wherever you go. You can never tell who is writing a book. However, I must say that not everybody is as well connected as Dick is, or works within one industry, or lives in an area where professionals can mingle "in the flesh". Due to my southwestern location, I don't meet most of my clients locally -- they are in other cities, in the publishing centers. So I cannot imagine my indexing business without marketing letters, targeted to those who publish specifically in fields I want to index in. Use Literary Market Place (in the reference section of the library -- call # .075 something). Another interesting source of general info about what's going on in the publishing world is the weekly industry publication Publisher's Weekly. Nobody specifically advertises for an indexer there, but you see who's expanding, who's doing what in what area, etc. Enough info there for you to see if there is potential with a company, and then go after them, so to speak. It's expensive to subscribe for a beginner, but most good libraries will get the magazine by subscription. Hope these ideas help you, Willa, and all of you other new indexers. Good luck! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:44:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: First job. How did I get my first indexing job? Believe it or not, cold calling and blind resumes. Since then, of course, it's all been word of mouth. (Well, cold calling still works, but not as well.) My first freelance job wasn't indexing, though, and I got that through a friend who knew me and worked for the client that was hiring. With indexing, however, I sent in a resume and followed up with a phone call and was told, "We don't hire freelance indexers. But we'll put you in the file anyway." Four months later they called me, and to be honest, the name of the publisher meant absolutely nothing to me at the time. "Who are these people calling me?" I wondered. Of course, since they mentioned that were responding to a resume I sent four months ago, I said, "Oh, hi! I didn't expect to hear from you!" As soon as I got off the phone, I went through my notes, praying that I kept something. I did. The first contract was worth almost $4000. So I guess you could say that luck had something to do with it, too. But it all started with a resume and a phone call. - Seth P.S. I want to add that the client never *once* asked me if I had indexed before, or what other books I had indexed. Had they asked, I would have said, "Actually, this would be my first index." But they never asked, and so I didn't feel an overwhelming need to tell them. It was a serious oversight on their part. But they felt I knew what I was talking about, asking all the right questions, and they trusted me. I've been writing indexes for them ever since, and now they couldn't get rid of me if they tried. :-) -- Seth A. Maislin (seth@ora.com) "I hate quotations." --Ralph Waldo Emerson O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1199 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com WWW: http://www.ora.com/people/staff/seth/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:40:51 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mrowland@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Tips for getting first jobs Willa, My story is a little different because I got my first indexing jobs from my father, also an indexer. Long, long ago, I started out by helping him to alphabetize index cards. When I started indexing on my own, I considered myself a technical indexer and called only one publisher (MIT Press). Though I no longer work for MIT, many of my current contacts are the result of referrals made as a result of that one call. I don't do much cold calling, but did ask my husband to make a call for me recently, and we both may get work as a result. I joined the American Society of Indexers around 1970, thinking that it was a sure way to get work. At the time, it wasn't, but my father found a client who proved very important to him via one of the ads in the newsletter. Now, much of my current work comes via people I have met through ASI. What a great organization! :-) Marilyn Rowland Indexing and Writing Cape Cod, MA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:05:02 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: First job. I got my first index through a technical writing agency, an agency that supplies contractors to local software and other companies. This was a great way in for a newcomer, as that first index led to repeat business with that group, plus referrals to others. Since then it has been word-of-mouth and referrals that get me most of my new contracts. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 00:43:02 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara J. Stroup" Subject: Cindex and Windows NT In hardware/software compatibility discussions, computer companies tell me that WINDOWS NT may not run DOS-platform applications efficiently or at all. I presently run CINDEX version 6.0b under DOS and want to continue doing so after purchasing a new system. Do any Cindex users run the program with a Pentium Pro processor machine loaded with Windows NT? Are there any problems with Cindex in this environment? Are you using a DOS emulation or did you partition your system? How about a regular Pentium processor with WIndows 95? (Please note that the Pentium Pro processor is different than the Pentium series.) Thanks for your comments in advance. This will help me in selecting a replacement for my trusty old 386SX. Barbara Stroup ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:59:38 CDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Presley, Paula" Subject: Re: Cindex and Windows NT In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Fri, 30 Aug 1996 02:43:02 CDT I use Cindex6.xx with WindowsNT and Pentium. Works great! _____________________________________________________ Paula Presley FAX 816-785-4181 VOICE 816-785-4525 Associate Editor, THOMAS JEFFERSON UNIVERSITY PRESS Copy/Production Editor, SIXTEENTH CENTURY JOURNAL MC 111-L, TRUMAN STATE UNIVERSITY 100 E. Normal St., Kirksville, MO 63501-4221 email: ppresley@truman.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:30:38 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: hazel blumberg-mckee Subject: First indexing job Before I graduated from law school in 1984, West Publishing Company, then located in St. Paul, MN, hired me as an attorney/legal editor. I spent most of my 1 1/2 years at West in the indexing department. Why? Who knows! West just plopped me there, and I worked out. I worked in other departments, too, but indexing seems to be where West thought I'd be most useful. About six months before I left West, I was thinking about self-employment, but I had no idea what to do. So, I started setting up informational interviews with just about anybody who was doing anything that interested me. One person I talked with was the vice-president of a textbook publisher in St. Paul. That press published a number of foreign-language textbooks, and I was hoping I'd be able to find work that involved my German language ability. The vp told me that there wasn't a lot of foreign-language publishing around. "But say, you're an indexer for West," he said. "Have you ever thought about becoming a freelance indexer?" This seemed so utterly hilarious to me that I just started laughing. "No, I'm serious," said the vp. "There's truly a market out there. And besides, we need a home economics book indexed. Would you do that for us if we paid you?" I told him I'd call him back the next day and left, still laughing. The next day, the idea didn't seem quite so silly. It seemed feasible. So, I called him back, accepted the job, and started in. Editors at that press started calling regularly with indexing projects. An editor at the press passed my name on to a friend of hers at another press, who also started calling with projects. Suddenly, I had so much freelance work that I had to decide whether to stay at West and drop my freelance work (I was exhausted after working all day at West and then doing freelance work every evening and all weekend) or to go full-time freelance. I picked the latter. I agree with EVERYBODY who's said, "Tell everybody you know what you're doing for a living!" You never do know when someone's working on a book. Or when a friend knows someone who desperately needs an indexer. I also find *Writer's Market* to be extremely helpful. Every four to six months, I'll leaf through the indexes at the end of this reference book (it comes out every year), see which presses publish the types of books I'm interested in working on, and drop these presses a note. I'll then follow up with a phone call within two weeks of writing. Sometimes I get a project, and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'll get a project almost immediately. Sometimes a year will go by, and then the publisher will call me. But I've gotten a number of clients this way. Word of mouth is indeed the best way to get work. A number of editors for whom I've worked have changed presses. And when they go to a new press, they take my card along. Then, I'll start getting calls from them and from their colleagues at the new press. I've been away from indexing for awhile, working at veterinary clinics and at an animal shelter, so I'm plunging back into the freelance fray again. I'm glad to be back. And I can assuredly work on veterinary medicine books with a lot more knowledge than I had before! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Let's put the hay down where the goats can get at it." --Senator W. D. Childers, Pensacola, Florida ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:35:06 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: BethJT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing books for sale Christi Diamond write to the list offering books for sale: >Here are the books: > > NFAIS's _Guide to Careers in Abstracting & Indexing_ > ASI's: _Running Your Indexing Business_ I would be interested in either or both of these two books. If I am quick enough, drop me a line at bethjt@aol.com I can also be reached at : Elizabeth Tudor Tudor Indexing 9101 Burdine, Suite 666 Houston, TX 77096 Thanks. Beth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 15:09:32 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: First job. Willa, I'm still not really sure how I got my first indexing job which was a referral from another indexer. She may have gotten my name from either the national office of ASI or our local chapter. (Moral #1: join ASI) She was leaving for a month in France, then moving across the country the day after returning from her vacation. (I can barely move from out of bed the day after returning from Europe, so I don't know how she did this! ;-D) She referred two of her software company clients to me who turned out to be very active. Indexing projects #1 and #2 came from the first client (who I still work for years later) and #3 (and many others) came from client #2 (also still a treasured client). Other software company clients came later on, also all through referrals. These first two clients kept me constantly busy for months. My next client, number #3, came from a marketing blitz I had done six months earlier. Come to think of it, this was the only client I've acquired through my own marketing efforts. (I had sent them a cover letter and resume specifically stating why I was especially qualified--IMO--to index their books and the publisher called me the very day he received the letter. Moral #2: be very specific in your cover letter and convince them that you're absolutely salivating to read their publications, which is very different from sounding desperate, BTW.) Other publishers did respond with nice "We're keeping your resume on file" letters. For client #3, I did several books but they started using a book packager who seems to favor using East Coast indexers except when those indexers turn down books for being hideously technical--then they call me. Client #4 came through a local chapter member who had received a request for bids being circulated among science librarians looking for someone to index a science and technology reference. Looking to expand my client base, though my other clients kept me constantly busy, I called the publisher, talked about the project, then forgot to submit my resume until they called asking me to please submit it. (They said I sounded more interested in the book than the other indexers they spoke with. So, I was selected though I bid only $1 less than the maximum they would pay--causing considerable amusement in their office. They paid the maximum, BTW. ;-D Moral #3: let the publisher know how interested you are. See also Morals #1 and #2.) We are now up to three or four months after having hung out my shingle as an indexer. Subsequent clients have all come through referrals, many from other indexers, referrals between editors in big publishing houses between imprints, referrals from unknown persons (yes, folks have called me but don't remember the person who referred them to me), from publishers seeing your name someplace or another (Moral #4: get your name out there any way you can), etc. Sooner or later, your business acquires a momentum of its own and you don't have the need to do much marketing except to replace clients that have wandered away for one reason or another. BTW, clients do stop using you occasionally for reasons having nothing to do with the quality of your work or the service you provide. Editors change jobs, some corporations have their inhouse writers index their own manuals, changes wrought by corporate mergers and reorganizations, etc. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 21:29:00 BST-1 Reply-To: jsampson@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: John Sampson Subject: Re: Cindex and Windows NT > I use Cindex6.xx with WindowsNT and Pentium. Works great! Being a lazy so-and-so, and frightened of RSI as well, I use a rather nifty keyboard macro TSR called Newkey, which enhances the task of input to Cindex a good deal. I doubt if this would work in Windows 95, so I wonder if there is a similar program that would. I also use the spelling checker in The Semware Editor, the only spelling checker that hasn't fallen over on me so far. Again I don't know if this would work with W95, or if there is an adequate spelling checker that would. The Cindex spelling checker isn't up to the burden I put on it, unfortunately. _John Sampson_ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 20:22:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: thanks / cable programs I just tried to post it but got a mail deamon message--so am trying again-don't want anyone to think I'm going crazy or anything!?! First of all, I've had some great responses to my question this morning, and will collate and post them all next week--since i assume that some lucky people will be away from their computers this weekend! The next question is how did people take this process from the initial contact to the first job--but I'll hold on that for a bit--since I've seen recent postings and have some ASI publications here. Has anyone been catching the c-span series called booknotes that's on both Saturday & Sunday nites. There are 2 programs of an hour each on both nites ( I think it airs around 9:00 in Boston area and 8:00 Sunday nite in Boston area). On the Sunday program, Brian Lamb interviews various authors for an hour in length and gets into some pretty interesting questions on how author's write! The series also highlights tours of publishing companies--last Sunday they hgihlighted R.R. Donnelly (who is publshing Clinton's new book). They are a great learning tool for newbies like me. Has anyone else been able to see them? Hope everyone has a good long weekend. Willa MacAllen MacAllen's informaton Service ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 20:30:48 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Janet Russell Subject: Re: Tips for getting first jobs >I'm wondering how people on this list got their first job. I had done indexing as an employee of an information consulting firm. ASI held its annual convention in Chicago a month after I was laid off, at a hotel within walking distance of my home. How could I resist? A Chicago encyclopedia publisher was looking for someone who could use Cindex. We hit it off and I had my first job. An in-house indexer for the same publisher who also freelanced referred a large project he couldn't handle. Another freelancer whom I met through the encyclopedia project referred me to another publisher. That client has referred me to others. One way or another, almost all my work came from that one ASI convention. (How my life would have been different if it had been held in San Francisco that year.) Those clients who didn't come through the encyclopedia publisher came through the ASI Indexer Locator. The moral of this story: ASI forever! Janet Russell, Corofin Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 08:32:08 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MTOWERY@AOL.COM Subject: Positive things to do while waiting for your USDA lessons At the ASI conference in Denver, the afternoon roundtable on Mentoring/Trainee/Apprenticeship Relationships came up with the following suggestions. My thanks to all of the participants for their ideas. Elspeth Pope took notes, and I am posting them here for your perusal. 1. Join ASI and start acquiring some of the basic publications you'll need when you finally get started. 2. Does your state or region have an ASI chapter? Get involved and start networking. If not, what about other indexers close enough for you to meet for coffee or lunch? Or even talk to on the phone? Find a local indexer to serve as your mentor. 3. Practice indexing. Buy a book without an index and create one, or find a short book on a subject that interests you (don't look at the index) and index it and then check against the original index. 4. Brush up on business practices. Do you need a business license? What about taxes (federal, state, and local)? Take a small business course. Check out disability and health insurance. 5. Write a business plan. Is there a local chapter of SCORE to advise folks? What kind of furniture, equipment, and supplies will you need to get start (minimum and preferred)? 6. Check out software programs. Do you need Cindex or Macrex, or do you want to try it on 3 x 5 cards? (Another point to discuss with other indexers.) 7. Investigate computers. What do you have and what more do you need? What about backup systems for eventual failure? 8. Brush up on computer literacy. Do you understand what is meant by hypertext, embedded indexing, FTP, etc.? Do you really need to know this? 9. What are your local delivery options? Is there FedEx and UPS service nearby? What about Saturdays--cost and delivery? 10. Check the index to Keywords. Then read the articles that appear to answer your immediate questions. 11. Volunteer your indexing services. Ask the local library or historical society if they have a book or other material that needs an index. 12. While you're in the library, check the periodical section for home office type magazines and browse through those. 13. Read other books on indexing. Mulvaney's is a really great book, but check out Norman Knight's and Hans Wellisch's work as well. ASI has a published bibliography to get you started. 14. Check on books about working at home and being a freelancer. Get a start on some of the pitfalls that the USDA course might not cover. Ergonomics, for starters. Time management, for another. 15. Read indexes. Pull out books on subjects that interest you and read the index. Are the expected topics there? How is the index constructed? Is it helpful? What makes it most usable? Read a chapter and then check the index to see if the terms you think should be there actually are. Evaluate it from a reader's standpoint. That will help you as an indexer know what works and what doesn't. 16. Begin to think about marketing. Check the Literary Marketplace at your local library for publishers in your area(s) of specialty to see if they hire freelance indexers. Watch publications for ads, too. If Publisher X just published a book in your specialty, that's an opportunity to write to them and let them know you have some expertise in that area and are an indexer. 17. And finally, don't just lurk on Index-L. Ask questions! And good luck. Margie Towery Towery Indexing and Editing Service ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 13:08:07 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Jill B. Edwards" Subject: Cindex and WIN95 and Pentium In response to Barbara Stroup's question: I have a Pentium processor and Windows 95 and my version of Cindex 6.0 (the USDA demo version) runs just fine. After loading it in DOS, I created a shortcut for it and put it on my desktop. I just double-click the shortcut icon and Cindex opens. Only catch--use the Cindex EXIT command when you are finished working in Cindex. Don't use the WIN95 close window button or you will get a nasty, but harmless, message. Good luck. Jill Edwards ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 19:05:14 UT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joanne Clendenen Subject: Re: First indexing job I heartily agree with Hazel that word of mouth as well as just contacting publishers does work eventually. I found out about indexing from a little purple book, Careers for Book Worms and Other Literary Types. ASI's address was in the section on indexing, which, I found to my surprise, was often a free lancer's job (I always thought I'd have to move to New York, or something, to work in publishing). I took the USDA courses, went to an ASI national meeting in 1992, and had a second baby. Then I got to know Linda Fetters, who gave me the chance to do the index to the ASI Newsletter from '83-'93. We worked on that, and I got some experience and a sample of my work. In the summer of '94, I took the information on publishers from the Literary Market Place, and called ten of them. Most allowed me to send my resume and samples, but most also seemed to have put them in the ubiquitous circular file. Meanwhile, I had already contacted three university presses here in Texas, who all kept my material on file. Of the ten publishers I contacted, two sounded like they might use me, someday. Then, I waited for the luck to kick in. I waited until May of '95, when one of the university presses gave me my first real paying indexing job. By a stroke of luck and timing, in June I got a call from a panicked editor at one of the publishers I'd targeted the year before; he needed an index, and he needed it fast. I did a good job, and have been indexing for Basic Books ever since. The third publisher I work for came by way of referral from Linda Fetters, who was too busy to take on a book from McGraw Hill, and sent them to me. I've done more books for all three since, and I've used my slow time in Jan/Feb to target more groups of publishers as I had done in '94. You just have to persevere, and wait for the luck to kick in. There's always going to be a panic somewhere, sometime, and that could be your way in. Once you do a good job, they'll call you back. Good luck to all the newbies out there! Joanne Clendenen J_Clendenen@msn.com Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Let's put the hay down where the goats can get at it." --Senator W. D. Childers, Pensacola, Florida ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 13:32:46 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown <104571.560@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Tips for getting first jobs Willa... Here's my response (a day or two late because I receive the digest): When I started looking for business I had an AOL account. There was a section within AOL (not the indexing section) where anyone could post a classified ad free. I did so and got a response from a political analyst in Washington, D.C., who was self-publishing a book. His first questions were about the size of my company (number of employees) and how long we had been in business. I decided to be completely open and told him it was just me and I hadn't yet done an index. Candor is a rare commodity around the beltway, and after some negotiation, he hired me. He mentioned me in the acknowledgments with, "[Through AOL] I also found Craig Brown whose integrity and honesty made him the perfect indexer." I heartily agree with Hazel and all the others who recommend talking it up. Get and carry some business cards. Hand them out like candy at Halloween. By the way, Hazel modestly didn't mention that she once wrote an article on getting business in which she suggested doing a free index for your local library for a book that is much-used but unindexed. The article appears with several other fine articles in the ASI booklet "Marketing Your Indexing Services." Lots of good advice from some highly successful indexers. Good luck, and be sure to let us know when you get your first job, how you did it. Craig Brown The Last Word ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 15:39:14 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: hazel blumberg-mckee Subject: Indexing software I've been reading the thread about MS-DOS-based indexing software that's run on pentiums with a lot of interest. I bought a pentium not long ago, and I also purchased the dreaded Windows 95. Since I hadn't worked with Windows beforehand, I have nothing with which to compare Win 95. My husband, who uses Windows at work, says Win 95 is a big improvement. Hmmmmm. Anyway, I'd love to hear about what sorts of indexing software people are using, especially those of you who've made the leap to the pentium. If this topic isn't of general interest, or if it sounds too "commercial," please write to me directly. I remember that one indexer, who wrote a column for *Key Words* some time back, still used index cards. I wish I could remember her name! If she's still out there and still using index cards--for which I continue to have a lot of fondness--I'd love to hear from her, too. Many thanks! And have a wonderful weekend. It's due to rain all weekend here. Oh well. A good time to catch up on fun reading, jewelry-making, and painting my office (the last a task I've managed to put off for over 1 1/2 years!) Hazel. Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Let's put the hay down where the goats can get at it." --Senator W. D. Childers, Pensacola, Florida ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 16:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: hazel blumberg-mckee Subject: Joining ASI 'Tis true: While I was working in veterinary clinics and at an animal shelter, I let my ASI membership lapse. Arrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh. And at least fifty lashes with an uncooked noodle. I've tried to access ASI's Web site and get the application blank, as Bonnie Parks-Davies at ASI's Administrative Support Office has suggested. For some unknown reason, I can't get into the Web site. Probably a Windows 95 problem. If someone could e-mail me an application blank, that'd be terrific. If possible, please don't send it as an attachment. I'm having difficulty reading these. It's all Bill Gates's fault! TIA, Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net) "Let's put the hay down where the goats can get at it." --Senator W. D. Childers, Pensacola, Florida ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 11:34:04 +1200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Simon Cauchi Subject: help with names please My reference books fail me about the following names of parliamentarians in various countries around the world: Mitsui Mariko (Japan): which is the family name, Mitsui or Mariko? Mahon, Mrs (UK): what is her first name? Khunying Supatra Masdit (Thailand): so in running text, but to be indexed under which element of the name? Vigdis Finbogadottir (Iceland): personal name and patronymic, to be indexed under Vigdis? Bandaranaike (Sri Lanka): is her first name Sirimaro or Sirimavo? Maria de Lourdes Pintasilgo (Portugal): if I understand Mulvaney, p. 167, correctly, this should be indexed as "Lourdes Pintasilgo, Maria de": OK? Muhammed Hafiz Sheikh (Pakistan): to be entered under which element? My guess is "Hafiz Sheikh, Muhammed". Any help will be greatly appreciated. TIA From Simon Cauchi, 13 Riverview Terrace, Hamilton, New Zealand Telephone & facsimile +64 7 854 9229 E-mail: cauchi@wave.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 19:40:54 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Returned mail: User unknown (fwd) Hazel's story about starting out with West Publishing reminds me of how I first encountered that company. I had just moved to a very small town in Central CA and was trying to find any local publishers at all..."local" being anywhere between SF and LA. I found a listing for "West Publishing" in the yellow pages, with a local address, and I sent my resume, cover letter, etc. (At the time, I was doing strictly copyediting, no indexing). A month or so later, I got a nice note from the person I had sent the material to--he was a sales rep, not an editor and not working at headquarters in St. Paul. He said he had forwarded my resume to the right people, and I called and thanked him. It must have been a year later when I got a call from someone at West...and I had forgotten all about the resume, and how it got there. I've been working for them for the past 18 years, based on that misaddressed resume. My first indexing job came from HBJ, for whom I was doing editing only. I got a frantic call from one of my contacts there, who desperately needed an index for an algebra book (of all things). I said I hadn't done indexing before, and she insisted it was really Very Easy . Luckily, that particular book was, indeed, pretty simple, since I was doing it on index cards kept in a shoebox. That was about 22 years ago. I've had some "hits" from cold-call marketing (though I prefer to write instead of call first, then follow up with a phone call later). But most of my new business comes from referrals from regular clients. I don't think I've ever gotten a job on referral from another indexer, though Leslie Frank (who is on this list) and I "traded" rescue operations over the course of a year, when first my husband had a heart attack and I had to turn back a huge and lucrative job...and then she had her baby a month early and she had to find a replacement indexer. =Sonsie=