From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 6-JAN-1997 10:04:53.69 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9611D" Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:43:46 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9611D" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:08:00 GMT0 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: (British) Society of Indexers Xmas lunch This is a bit of a long shot, but here goes! The Scottish and North East England Groups of the Society of Indexers are having a CHRISTMAS DINNER IN BERWICK Jill Halliday (Chairman of the Society) will be our special guest Venue: King's Arms Hotel, Hide Hill, Berwick-upon-Tweed from 12.30 to 2pm Wednesday 11th December 1996 Places are limited to 50, and priority will be given to members of the Scottish and NE Groups and their partners (spouse, best friend, SO, colleague) Berwick is 50 minutes by train from Newcastle and 45 minutes from Edinburgh For those wishing to stay overnight the King's Arms' phone number is 01289 307454 The phone number of the Berwick Tourist Information Centre is 01289 330733 Basic cost (main course only) is 5.50 pounds (extras at your discretion) We have arranged a tour of the town during the afternoon If you would like to come, please fill in the slip below and return with a cheque or money order for 5.50 pounds (payable to the Society of Indexers, Scottish Group) to Kate Chapman, Moghbrae, St Ronan's Terrace, Innerleithen, Peeblesshire, EH44 6RB, Scotland -------------------------------------------------------------- I/We should like to attend the Christmas Dinner in Berwick on 11th December 1996 and enclose a cheque/money order for UKP5.50/11.00 I am/am not interested in going on the tour of Berwick after the meeting Name(s) Address Phone number ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:11:37 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: Re: traffic (lack thereof) Yoo-hoo--anybody out there? I did not receive any messages for two days and then I got five (count 'em, five ) copies of the same message referring to a thread I haven't seen before. This is not to say I'm _confused_ you understand.......... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 11:02:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: list problem? In-Reply-To: <199611220717.XAA15551@unixg.ubc.ca> Is it just me, or are others receiving multiple copies of Index-l postings today? Susie Stephenson UBC/SLAIS Vancouver mss@unixg.ubc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 13:36:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: dialog boxes At 11:17 AM 11/21/96 -0800, you wrote: > >So I want to question the usefulness of doubleposting dialog boxes under a >dialog box main heading. Who needs 'em?! Someone who knows he is looking for a dialog box but doesn't remember the name. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:42:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: dialog boxes In a message dated 96-11-22 14:35:26 EST, you write: > So I want to question the usefulness of doubleposting dialog boxes under a > dialog box main heading. Who needs 'em?! > > I agree with this - I never double-post dialog boxes under a massive "dialog box" main head, and the same for a "commands" head. Basically, I never have the room, and I also want to make sure I double-post what is going on with that dialog box, and why you are using it under user-language entries. I figure putting it under its own name is enough. Some clients now wish me not to include them at all in the index, which is interesting.... they would rather be sure all actions and activities are covered instead. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:59:34 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Electronic Submission Tips >> On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:22:55 -0500, Lynn said: L> Oh geeesh! The darn thing was only 35k!!!! I thought AOL could handle 64K by L> now, since the WHOLE REST OF THE WORLD went to 64K. (snot-mode ON) Most Unix systems allowed Internet mail messages of up to 100K in 1990, which might explain why these are two of my favorite quotes: Maybe you should telephone the Internet and talk to their tech support people. --Reply from an AOL tech-support rep speaking to a customer complaining about e-mail that failed to go through. SOURCE: Internet World, February 1995, p. 18 After spending the last 24 hours sorting through more than a billion "Returned Undeliverable" messages, I've come to the conclusion that nobody stays on AOL past that free trial period. --Note from Top-5 mailing list moderator. (snot-mode OFF) -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil 937-255-3688 Control Data Systems, Inc. ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: dialog boxes In a message dated 96-11-22 14:32:45 EST, Michael wrote: > At 09:52 AM 11/18/96 -0500, Lynn wrote Fred: > > >... BTW, I don't know how far you are into this index but, being that a lot > >of software has a huge number of dialog boxes, you may find yourself with > an > >enormous subentry list by classifying each dialog box under a dialog box > main > >heading. Then again, it may work quite nicely in this particular index... > > Lynn: > > I want to question the need for doubleposting dialog boxes under a dialog > box main heading. > > [Mid-message note: en dashes are represented by single, unpaired underscores > instead of double hyphens to avoid confusion with em dashes. ;-D ] > > When I index software manuals I focus primarily on writing task-oriented > entries since I think that they are the ones that users go to most > frequently out of their need to find out how to _do_ something. Of course I > include many program feature_oriented entries as well, mostly I think for > the more experienced users who know enough about the program (or programs in > general) to know what to look for--as well as for browsers--and especially > of course when the manuals are program feature_oriented. Many of these > entries are quite narrow, like obscure little options with sometimes oddly > phrased names that very few users are likely to look up, and sometimes I > find myself regretting the time it takes me to enter them, but when they're > actually discussed however briefly they're what I call "obligatory" and have > to be included. I also do a great deal of doubleposting, but I don't like > making already sizable indexes unnecessarily unwieldy with marginal program > feature_oriented doubleposts--for reasons of space and out of consideration > for users, and also out of consideration for myself! (I do not exist merely > in order to write index entries!) Michael, To be honest, I totally agree with you in your entire approach to indexing software manuals. ;-D (In case anyone is annoyed with the fact that I copied so much of this message including my earlier quote, it's because the list was apparently down for two days and folks probably wouldn't remember what we were talking about.) I only said what I did about the possibility of double-posting dialog boxes under "dialog boxes" because I didn't want to second guess Fred, especially not having access to the book he's indexing. But as a matter of general principle, I don't list specific dialog boxes under that main heading either, reserving it only for subentries discussing dialog boxes in general. Aside from space considerations and keeping the index from becoming unwieldy, I think users usually look for an index entry for a dialog box when the box is right in front of them on the screen and has them baffled for some reason. So, they already know the name of the box (displayed in the title bar) and can look for it as a main entry. As you do, I believe in creating task-oriented indexes to software (and other manuals as well). Therefore, if the user doesn't know the name of the dialog box, he or she at least knows what type of task they're trying to perform (we hope) and will look under entries related to the task. (And, while we're on the subject, I don't index the various buttons found in dialog boxes as that can get out of control really fast and the main entry for the dialog box will take them to where the buttons, drop-down lists, etc. within the dialog box are described.) Quite a while back, we had a discussion here on the list about the pros and cons of classification in indexes, which listing specific dialog boxes under the heading "dialog boxes" is an example of. I said, in that thread, that one occasion where classification would come in handy is when the reader does not know the specific names of things falling within a given category and therefore wouldn't be able to find them as main headings. However, the names of interface components, such as dialog boxes, are not always a good indication of their function, so they don't even meet that exception as candidates for classification, IMHO. So, I really only said what I did because I wasn't in Fred's shoes doing Fred's index. ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 20:09:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Water Cooler Chat: Long night In a message dated 96-11-22 14:30:41 EST, Michael wrote: > Then your next observation did me in: "... but then the > computer will tell me what day it is in an instant whenever I want to know"! > I gave out with a guffaw. To paraphrase the Heart Sutra and turn it all > around, "Gone, gone, gone beyond--gone, hopeless, pathetic"! > > And then to think you woke up your poor sleep-deprived husband when you > feared he'd blown the vetting...aye, hopeless indeed. Is there nothing more? Ah Michael, But he was there to share my pain. ;-D Now, what was really hopeless was me logging on every hour for the last two days looking for Index-L and not finding anything. Now that was agony!!!!!!! (That probably was worse on my husband than my waking him up about the pages because he had to listen to me whine for two whole days about the listserve apparently being down.) It got so bad that we even turned off the computers and went out of the house yesterday afternoon even though it was raining!!!!!!! (Or maybe it was raining here in "sunny" Southern California because we went out of the house... I don't know...) And it's getting ready to rain again, so the only way I know that the moon's almost full is by that little moon-phase thing on my screen next to the clock (where I put the cursor to find out what day it is). ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 23:39:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jillbarret@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Relief of carpal tunnel discomfort Exercise is always beneficial. Another suggestion is massage therapy. My husband is a neuro-muscular therapist. If you suffer from CTS, consider seeing a Massage Therapist for healing and relief. You may very well be able to avoid surgery. (I hope this posting will only appear once! I honestly sent my last message just one time, but I'm told it appeared 5 times!) Jill Barrett Indexing Services Newport News, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 05:25:00 GMT0 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Re: dialog boxes As a side issue, I'd love to know which (more-or-less readily available) software packages have indexes by *proper* indexers (i.e. Index-Lers)! Anyone prepared to enlighten us? Drusilla hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk phone/fax +44 191 414 2595 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 07:07:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Electronic Submission Tips In a message dated 96-11-22 21:56:26 EST, you write: > (snot-mode ON) > > Most Unix systems allowed Internet mail messages of up to 100K in 1990, > which might explain why these are two of my favorite quotes: > > Maybe you should telephone the Internet and talk to > their tech support people. > --Reply from an AOL tech-support rep speaking > to a customer complaining about e-mail that > failed to go through. > SOURCE: Internet World, February 1995, p. 18 > > After spending the last 24 hours sorting through more > than a billion "Returned Undeliverable" messages, > I've come to the conclusion that nobody stays on AOL > past that free trial period. > --Note from Top-5 mailing list moderator. Karl, ROFL!!!!!!!!!!! Those were a scream! ;-D BTW, I used 64K because Netcom used to have a 30K limit too, until it went to 64K a few years ago. (It may be higher now.) Of course, by the time everyone else gets to the Unix limit of 100K, the minimum file size we'll all be trying to send will be 20Megs. ;-D Keep those little technofacts coming... I truly enjoy them. Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 07:07:49 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Electronic Submission Tips In a message dated 96-11-22 15:45:55 EST, Liz wrote: > I frequently download papers in .rtf format from a university archive to > print on my Mac, and being linguistics papers, these are usually full of > all sorts of weird phonetic characters as well as assorted Greek > characters. Those papers created orginally on Macs tend to come across > beautifully, but some of the ones created on PCs, and especially those > created in WordPerfect, show up with blanks or nothing or garbage in place > of some of the phonetic and Greek characters, making it an even greater > challenge to read and understand these papers, so the .rtf format > may not be as foolproof as it appears. I don't know if the problem lies > with basic font incompatibility or failure to embed the unusual fonts in > the .rtf file or something else, but my experience would lead me to be > cautious about cross-platform file exchanges, especially when non-standard > characters are involved. I would certainly send a few test files just to > be on the safe side. Liz, I think this is that problem with different assignments by the PC and Mac for characters above ASCII 128 I mentioned here last week. You'd think by now that someone would have come up with a neat little translation routine for this problem. BTW, I've always wondered if linguistics had something to contribute to the art of indexing. Maybe not, but please let us know if it does. Good luck in starting your indexing career!! Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 10:54:47 -0600 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: dialog boxes The manual that came with my new MS Word 7.0 is indexed by Julie Kawabata.... I do enjoy knowing I can USE the index as I try to learn everything this program does! Yeah. -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:15:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Water Cooler Chat: Long night In a message dated 96-11-22 22:06:32 EST, you write: << Now, what was really hopeless was me logging on every hour for the last two days looking for Index-L and not finding anything. Now that was agony!!!!!!! >> Lynn, I shared your agony. I too logged in every two hours (maybe more often) looking for anything on Index-L to read. AAHHH. Now if only both of us had bothered to write something as well;D Personally, I was too tired to write. I just wanted to read to know someone was out there. Nice to know lots of someones are. I was really beginning to suspect my entire account was malfunctioning. Oh no, what would I do without my electronic human contact?!?!?! At least my clock and calendar were still functioning. I'm afraid to admit I am also completely unaware of the day of the week and the date. I am proud to say that I usually know what month it is. I don't worry about the phases of the moon. OK, I'm out of here again to return to indexing a computer software manual. I'm sure the scintillating material will keep me awake. Leslie Leslie Leland Frank Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:19:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Indexing with Doc-to-Help I would appreciate if those of you who have indexed using Doc-to-Help could give me some advice. I have created many technical indexes and I have revised keyword lists for on-line help, but this is my first time creating an index using Doc-to-Help. I have been told that it's not necessary to use the automated indexing feature. I plan to create the index in dedicated indexing software (wINDEX) and then embed my index in the usual MS Word fashion, page by page. This seems to me much easier than stopping at each instance of the word "update", for example, and deciding what tags to insert. Not to mention that I'd need targets for every word form, Update and updating, etc. What I need to know is how the print index relates to the Help index. At present, the Help index consists of the titles of every help screen (=headers of every doc section). The Doc-to-Help documentation tells me that this can be turned off. Should I have this off or on? If it's on, how do I get some of these headers into the paper index without having them appear twice in the Help index? How do I get the inappropriate headers out of the Help index? It seems to me that I should turn this feature off and then put an appropriate index tag into each header. Could someone please tell me how to turn it off and on? Any Doc-to-Help indexing strategy tips would be most welcome. Thanks, Susan Susan Holbert "Training workshops and videos" INDEXING SERVICES 24 Harris Steet Waltham, MA 02154-6105 617-893-0514 susanh@world.std.com http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:28:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Vezina Kumiko Subject: The Met in NY Hello to all of you, My name is Kumiko Vezina and this is my first message to the group. I am a second year student in a Master program of Library and Information Science at the University of Montreal. This summer, I will be working as an intern at the Metropolitain Museum of Art in New York for Mrs Constance Old who heads the Department of Dance Index and Musical Instruments. They have a collection of about 2000 items who have all been photographed: paintings, vases, sculptures, etc. She has asked me to find out if anyone else, besides herself, is working on, is interested in or has any knowledge about indexing in the field of Performing Arts. Mrs Constance Old has a particular interest in subject indexing images and iconographic thesauri. Any information would be greatly appreciated especially names, addresses and e-mails so that Mrs. Old could get in touch with those people. Also, if anyone has heard of indexing systems or thesauri in the Performing Arts field, any information would be very useful. Thank you, Kumiko Vezina School of Library and Information Science University of Montreal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:11:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: Indexing with Doc-to-Help Susan: You might find something helpful to you in Lori Lathrop's lead article on Doc-to-Help in the Jan-Feb 1995 _Key Words_. Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:16:56 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: dialog boxes In my original message on 11/21/96 I said: >...So I want to question the usefulness of doubleposting dialog boxes under a >dialog box main heading. Who needs 'em?! and at 11:17 AM 11/21/96 -0800, Dick wrote: >Someone who knows he is looking for a dialog box but doesn't remember the name. Dick, although I don't agree with your implication that dialog boxes should be doubleposted under a dialog box main heading, I can't let this straightforward response go uncelebrated! Then at 05:42 PM 11/22/96 -0500, Jan wrote: >...Some clients now wish me not to include them at all in the index, which is >interesting.... they would rather be sure all actions and activities are covered >instead. Jan, this _is_ interesting. Sure confirms my notion that dialog entries even in main headings are of marginal value. Then at 08:09 PM 11/22/96 -0500, Lynn wrote: >Quite a while back, we had a discussion here on the list about the pros and >cons of classification in indexes, which listing specific dialog boxes under >the heading "dialog boxes" is an example of. I said, in that thread, that one >occasion where classification would come in handy is when the reader does not >know the specific names of things falling within a given category and >therefore wouldn't be able to find them as main headings. However, the names >of interface components, such as dialog boxes, are not always a good >indication of their function, so they don't even meet that exception as >candidates for classification, IMHO. I'd forgotten this point, Lynn. Thanks. Now here's a follow-up question for anyone: what about the case of dialog boxes with multiple functions discussed on a number of different pages? Some indexers index such passages with task-oriented subheads in order to clarify what's where for the reader, as in Page Setup dialog box centering pages, 588-589 margins, 588 orientation options, 587 page numbering, 587-588 paper size, 587-588 scaling pages, 589 but I'm inclined to think this is overthorough and that a page range would be preferable. Naturally in a book of such size all the above subs would appear as main headings and as subs under a heading like "page setup options", so it seems to me that duplicating them under the dialog box name is excessive, even when the subject heading does not begin with the same term(s) as the name of the dialog box (and therefore would appear in a different place in the index). Any reactions? Lynn also said: >(And, while we're on the subject, I don't index the various buttons found in dialog >boxes as that can get out of control really fast and the main entry for the dialog >box will take them to where the buttons, drop-down lists, etc. within the dialog box >are described.) This strikes a sympathetic chord in me. I certainly do not list all such buttons and options but as I said in my original message I do feel constrained to index them when discussed, "however briefly", even though I think they're of marginal value and probably take up more space and time than they're worth. Indeed, one client I work for has questioned including them (and others seem to like them). Lynn, do you have a rationale beyond what you said above for omitting such entries? And do you, Jan or Dick (or anyone else), have any ideas on this you'd care to express? Thanks, Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:04:56 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Periodicals: Working copy To those who index back issues of periodicals -- Do you work from the periodical itself or from copies? If the latter, who makes the copies, you or the client? If you make them, do you do it yourself or hire it done? I'm talking about 7,000 pages. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 19:13:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: 'Tis the season . . . Do you give gifts to your clients for the holidays? In years past, I have. I usually gave a fruit basket costing about $30. But, I only had 3-4 regular clients. This year, I have more regular clients as well as some that I did only one job for. Do you give to regulars or to everyone? Or perhaps a gift to regulars and just a card to others? Also, who do you direct the gift to: the person you have dealt with all year or the head of the organization? (Assuming they are not the same and assuming you know both.) Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 16:35:20 -0800 Reply-To: Roberta Horowitz Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: 'Tis the season . . . In-Reply-To: <199611240017.QAA05077@mail6.netcom.com> Home Office Computing (http://www.smalloffice.com) in the December 1996 issue has an article on gift giving to clients along with suggestions of gifts that you might find useful. Here is a quick summary of Letitia Baldrige Ms. Gift Manners said Research your client's like and dislikes to prevent mistakes like sending something someone is allergic to Don't go overboard Do inquire about your recipients schedule -- prevent gifts like food arriving when someone is on vacation Don't have your business logo splashed all over your gift Do ship food items directly to a client's home (prevents the receptionist and others from eating it) Don't send the typical HOme Office Computing is a very good magazine for the small business person with lots of helpful articles on a wide range of subjects (running a business, desktop publishing, marketing, how to balance home and work), hardware and software reviews The Web site http://www.smalloffice.com is a great place to pick up alot of information. They even have a water cooler section. Roberta Horowitz roberta@netcom.com On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Richard T. Evans wrote: > Do you give gifts to your clients for the holidays? > > In years past, I have. I usually gave a fruit basket costing about $30. > But, I only had 3-4 regular clients. This year, I have more regular clients > as well as some that I did only one job for. Do you give to regulars or to > everyone? Or perhaps a gift to regulars and just a card to others? > > Also, who do you direct the gift to: the person you have dealt with all year > or the head of the organization? > (Assuming they are not the same and assuming you know both.) > > Dick Evans > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:28:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: dialog boxes In a message dated 96-11-23 17:23:54 EST, Michael wrote (quoting me): > >(And, while we're on the subject, I don't index the various buttons found > in dialog >boxes as that can get out of control really fast and the main > entry for the dialog >box will take them to where the buttons, drop-down > lists, etc. within the dialog box >are described.) Then said > > This strikes a sympathetic chord in me. I certainly do not list all such > buttons and options but as I said in my original message I do feel > constrained to index them when discussed, "however briefly", even though I > think they're of marginal value and probably take up more space and time > than they're worth. Indeed, one client I work for has questioned including > them (and others seem to like them). Lynn, do you have a rationale beyond > what you said above for omitting such entries? And do you, Jan or Dick (or > anyone else), have any ideas on this you'd care to express? Michael, In terms of how indexing these can get out of control, imagine the huuuuuuuuuge subentry list that would be generated for subentries for something like OK and Cancel buttons, which happen to do the same thing in every dialog box that includes them. ;-D (If the book has a section that explains the functions of these two buttons as they apply to all dialog boxes, I'd create entries for them at that one location. And, of course, I index them in books on how to program Windows applications where how to program these types of components is discussed.) Another problem with indexing them is that they're simply not likely to be accessed as main headings, IMHO. Many of these components don't have memorable names, so a reader is not likely to try to access main headings for them. Also, the actual wording of the name of the component is quite likely to be different from a reader's vague memory of what the component does. For example, the Open a File dialog box in AOL's software contains a combo box (or whatever it is) that says, "List of Files of Type". Very few people are going to remember that it is called that and if someone wanted to look specifically for this list box, they may look for "File Types combo box" and you'd have to create yet entry as a See reference to account for this possibility. So again, the index gets out of control, especially in a complex software product containing gazillions of dialog boxes (let alone their components). The alternative, if the indexer felt compelled to index these things would be to list them as subentries under "Open a File dialog box" with the result that you'd end up with a subentry list of components with locators all falling on the same one or two pages, which could look rather silly. ;-D So, these are the additional reasons why I don't index them (unless the author, for some reason, devotes a whole page or two to one specific component, making the discussion too substantive to ignore). An exception to this, IMHO, could be in some Win95 applications where some dialog boxes contain tabs that are practically dialog boxes in themselves and the discussion of them is pretty extensive. (However, I'm still leery of indexing many of them because of the minimal likelihood that users will actually remember the names of the tabs in order to access them in the index.) But, usually, the discussion of specific dialog box components only extends to "Click on the Options button to open the View Preferences dialog box". I rather go into detail on entries related to various tasks and important concepts than bog the index down with dialog box components. I am, BTW, very willing to consider other points of view on this. ;-D Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:29:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: dialog boxes In a message dated 96-11-23 17:23:53 EST, you write: > Page Setup dialog box > centering pages, 588-589 > margins, 588 > orientation options, 587 > page numbering, 587-588 > paper size, 587-588 > scaling pages, 589 > This is actually the one db that I normally do have detail for, as page setup options in most of the products I work on are complex and confusing, as is the dialog box itself, usually. People have a very hard time with page orientation, matching screen size to paper size, duplexing, numbering, scaling, etc. So I do go into detail on that one. But not for most dbs. I never saw a user look up the name of a button in the usability tests I sat through. With the emphasis these days on ToolTips and popup help, they don't seem to need to. So if the client wants them, I'll put them, but I do not double post them under "buttons" or list them as items under "text toolbar". ( I usually give the reference to the page where they have illustrated the toolbar only). And lately, more than one client has said to leave them out as well. Do we miss them? If there is a line tool, and an entry for _lines, drawing_ leading to the same page, is everything covered? I've really been focusing on a task approach, and I have found an additional benefit of avoiding db and button-like terms in the index: when the doc team changes names of things at the last minute, usually the indexing is still okay for the topic. A side benefit.... Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 20:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing with Doc-to-Help (LONG!) In a message dated 96-11-23 16:24:50 EST, you write: > I have been told that it's not necessary to use the automated indexing > feature. I plan to create the index in dedicated indexing software (wINDEX) > and then embed my index in the usual MS Word fashion, page by page. This > seems to me much easier than stopping at each instance of the word "update", > for example, and deciding what tags to insert. Not to mention that I'd need > targets for every word form, Update and updating, etc. Good plan! I have found that using the automated indexing feature is very ugly. It does not allow you to see your index as it is developing, and stopping at each instance to approve the text strings it finds is horrible. It only shows you the target list, which I guess is nice, but we need to SEE the INDEX. (software, sigh) Embedding your indexing using the normal word-style index tags is the only way to save your brain. > > What I need to know is how the print index relates to the Help index. Doc-to-Help picks up the indexing in the normal word tags, adds the Help Screen titles, and pastes it all into the K footnotes for each topic as it creates them. You will see these K footnotes if you double-click left by the topic head at the top of the screen, or choose View Footnotes. >At > present, the Help index consists of the titles of every help screen > (=headers of every doc section). The Doc-to-Help documentation tells me that > this can be turned off. Should I have this off or on? Turn this feature off. Otherwise you wind up with index terms such as "Using Blah-ha" or "About the Blaha option." You can tell an auto-generated keyword index a mile away. The capitalization patterns are inconsistent, because it is mixing written keywords with Topic Titles. The feature is buried in a subscreen of the dialog boxes you use when you are starting the macros for changing the print files to online files. Compiling, or something like that. I remember having to look for it quite a bit. There are a whole set of specifications for how to build the help file, and this is one check box in the list. There is a multiple step process the files go through - copying the indexing into the K footnotes as keywords is an early step in the process. You wind up with a compiled help file and a set of RTF files with k footnotes and indexing in them. >If it's on, how do I > get some of these headers into the paper index without having them appear > twice in the Help index? Turn it off, generate the k footnotes in the rtf files, and then type in the headers you do want as regular keyword indexing. >How do I get the inappropriate headers out of the > Help index? It seems to me that I should turn this feature off and then put > an appropriate index tag into each header. Could someone please tell me how > to turn it off and on? > Once you have run the macros that copy the indexing from the text into the k footnotes (and create those footnotes at the same time), you can edit the keywords in the footnotes to make the indexing work with WinHelp's index display. If you can find it, my articles in the WinHelp journal last winter 96 and Spring summer 96 describe WinHelp indexing, problems, and fixes. Susan, this is NOT a fun process. Allow plenty of time, especially if it is a large piece. Word chokes on these macros sometimes. Watch the compiles and make sure they complete their work. Also, indexing that works for print pieces will look funny in the WinHelp keywords display. I would actually design for the keywords, and then accomodate the print index where needed, rather than the other way around. You can only have 2 levels in Windows 95, 1 in Windows 3.1, and there are many sorting problems and display problems caused by the engine's insistence on sorting things its way. Two word phrases often split one-word entries up, losing their subheads, thusly: (win 95 display example) (notice how entries are divided) mail mail merge mail, reading sending x-files (how the keywords for that display actually look) mail; mail merge; mail: reading; mail: sending; mail: x-files; You have to play with the keywords to get these to come out correctly, by adding a space and a colon on the end of the one-word entries: (actual keywords in files) mail :; mail merge; mail : reading; mail : sending; mail : x-files; will sort in the display as mail reading sorting x-files mail merge (Note the colons that are present in the keywords are not displayed in Windows 95). Doc-To-Help will simply take whatever it finds in the Word index tags and stuff them into the keywords, so you have no help there in making the keyword index work well. You have to go into the RTF files and edit the K footnotes to make it look right. Does this make any sense? Are you far enough into the project to test some files? Send me questions and I will help if I can. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 22:03:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Fun in indexes? I am new to this listserve and most of the threads are as yet way over my head. I have a little experience indexing, and am taking a class. Also, I am in the early stages of putting together a book with someone else, on travel anecdotes and tips. It will be pretty light reading; I suggested we add the tips to make it more long-lived, and then of course it will need a bit of indexing. And then I thought, why not make the index light too? It can be useful but still incorporate some of the humor in the book. For example, there was a recent news story about a gorilla being transported by air, who was so unhappy with his accommodations that the plane had to be grounded and all the passengers delayed so this gorilla could be shifted to ground transport the rest of the way. So cross references could be "animals, transport"; "gorillas, 800 pound, seating of"; or something along those lines. You get the idea. So my question is, has anyone on this list ever done anything like this, anything not strictly serious? (By the way, if any of you have any good travel stories -- or bad travel stories -- and/or tips, please send them along for the book.) Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing Editing Desktop Publishing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 09:23:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DP1301@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Periodicals: Working copy Dick, Last year I indexed a years worth of a weekly and they sent me one of each issue. I got to keep them. I index current issues of periodicals so they send me the new one as it comes out. As it gets toward the end of the year, they send me proof sheets and sometimes just the first page of the article. Good luck. Deborah Deborah Patton INDEXER Baltimore, MD 410/243-4688 dp1301@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:22:48 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Periodicals: Working copy >Deborah Patton writes: >Last year I indexed a years worth of a weekly and they sent >me one of each issue. I got to keep them. >I index current issues of periodicals so they send me the new >one as it comes out. As it gets toward the end of the year, >they send me proof sheets With one minor variation, is exactly the same procedure for me when I index an academic journal each year. The only variation is that they send me unbound copies of the issues as they come out and then proof sheets of the final issue. ******************************************************** Lawrence H. Feldman Post Office Box 2493 Wheaton Maryland 20915-2493 301-933-2616 Lawrenc846@aol.com Indexer - Researcher - Writer ******************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:23:40 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: Re: 'Tis the season 24 November 1996 Dick asked about gift-giving practices. I make a practice of trying to thank my steady employers once or twice a year, but as a non-religious person, I'm increasingly uncomfortable with linking my thanks to the Christmas season. I often send Thanksgiving cards because my employers are some of the people I *am* very thankful for, and I sometimes send Valentine's cards and/or chocolate treats because I care about them. (Some of my relationships with these people go back 14 years, and I feel that I've gotten to know them as individuals in that time!) Whatever gift I send is usually token, addressed and/or sent to every person in a publishing firm with whom I've had contact, and includes a handwritten note of gratitude. I figure that I'm trying to thank them--not trying to bribe them into giving me more work--and that a token gift conveys my appreciation for them without laying a lot of guilt, indebtedness, or sense of obligation on their part. That's what I do. Does anybody else do this kind of thing? Laura Moss Gottlieb Freelance Indexer ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:26:24 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Laura M. Gottlieb" Subject: periodicals When I've indexed journals, the publishing company has supplied me with the issues to be indexed free-of-charge, of course, and I get to keep them. Laura Moss Gottlieb Freelance Indexer Laura Moss Gottlieb Freelance Indexer 212 Highland Avenue Madison, Wisconsin 53705 (608) 233-4559 pgottlie@facstaff.wisc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 16:05:16 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sharon Giles Subject: Re: Periodicals: Working copy In-Reply-To: <9611240006.AA26680@medcat.library.swmed.edu> Any indexing that I do is from the periodical itself. If I don't have a copy, I visit a library that does and take my laptop computer with me. On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Richard T. Evans wrote: > To those who index back issues of periodicals -- > > Do you work from the periodical itself or from copies? If the latter, who > makes the copies, you or the client? If you make them, do you do it > yourself or hire it done? > > I'm talking about 7,000 pages. > > Dick Evans > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:39:54 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Periodicals: Working copy The editor of the one journal I index, sends me both the published issues _and_ page proofs. I get the last issue's page proofs to index, and he sends me the published issue (with my index) when it is printed. Now, the real question was about _back_ issues and who makes copies of those. I think this relates back to the old thread on clients asking indexers to print their own copies from an electronic file. I would rather work with a print copy, and would ask the client to send me the copies with which I'll be working. I would expect them to prepare and send to me the product I'll be working with. If I do the printing, I will charge for it. For back issues of a periodical, if I did the copying, I would charge for it. I would invoice _both_ my time spent making copies, and the actual copy costs. When you're talking about 7000 pages, it would probably be wise to just drop off those pages & ask for a copy shop to do the copying. And invoice their bill to your client. Just my $.02, hope it's useful. -Kari -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Kari J. Bero Bero-West Indexing Services 206-937-3673 3722 Beach Drive SW, Suite 101 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu Seattle, WA 98116 http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 17:37:09 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Truesdale Subject: Re: Relief of carpal tunnel disease Jillbarret@AOL.COM wrote: > Another suggestion is massage therapy. My husband is a neuro-muscular > therapist. If you suffer from CTS, consider seeing a Massage Therapist > for healing and relief. You may very well be able to avoid surgery. Regarding massage: I don't know about relief of CTS specifically, but I have found Shiatzu massage therapy wonderful for just making you feel good. Shiatzu is based on Japanese accupressure. I have not had every ache and pain disappear, but continue to give myself the *treat* of a massage every 2 or 3 weeks because it is so wonderfully relaxing. I understand some ladies treat themselves to a trip to the beauty parlor when they need a pick-me-up. This is my substitute. Quote from my cousin after her first massage: "I haven't had this much attention since the last time I played with a litter of puppies!" (Remember the Pepsi commercial with the little boy being mobbed by a bunch of pups?) -- Ann Truesdale "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 19:47:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 'Tis the season Dick and all, I like to acknowledge the holidays with a card to my clients and contacts. I try to make it something a little different. One year it was a southwest theme holiday card. Last year I sent an imprinted pictorial calendar. This year, it's a different kind of calendar. Next year .... who knows? I don't go in for anything larger or more personal. My active client list is too long to permit that kind of gift giving. And since I usually deal with various people at each client site, it would be difficult to do this anyway. My contacts are valuable to me, as my active clients (of the moment). It makes for a big "family." All in all, an acknowledgement of the season, a token, is all I do. I like to think that it's the thought that counts. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:37:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 'Tis the season To all, Like Janet, I don't send out much more than a card. I have too many clients to consider any kind of serious gift giving. I think a token in acknowledgement of the season is appropriate. On the other hand, I would like to do something like this twice a year. I need to find a good reason to send something out during the early summer, perhaps a midsummers' eve card. I'm afraid to think what type of card that might be, let alone what kind of impression it would make. ;D Leslie Leslie Leland Frank Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 05:34:15 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: periodicals When I index periodicals, all but one of my clients give me a complimentary subscription and, of course, I keep the issues. The one client who doesn't give me a complimentary subscription sends issues in batches 2-3 times/year. Near the end of the year, the clients send page proofs so I can wrap up the index in time for the last issue. Lori ****************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 05:34:17 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: 'Tis the season Like Janet and Leslie, I have too many clients (and multiple contacts at some client sites) to consider any serious gift giving during the Christmas season. However, I do make sure that my holiday cards are "special" in some way. Last year, I sent some wonderful three-fold cards of a gorgeous mountain scene (appropriate for someone who lives in Colorado to send!), and I was amazed at the terrific feedback I got from clients who loved that card. Although I couldn't find more of those cards this year, I did find some beautiful cards to acknowledge the fact that I'm grateful for their business and that I'm thinking of them as the New Year approaches. Like Janet, I'd like to think that it's the thought that counts. Lori ****************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ---------->INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4447, ext. 28 / Fax: 303-567-9306 ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 07:52:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: 'Tis the season . . . In-Reply-To: <199611240013.TAA18423@polaris.net> On Sat, 23 Nov 1996, Richard T. Evans wrote: > Do you give gifts to your clients for the holidays? Nope. Couldn't afford to! ;) I send cards to everybody I work with. And then, of course, you have to be concerned about sending really Christmassy cards. Can you be sure that your clients are Christians? I try to find holiday cards. Someday, I'll get it together to send out New Year's cards. But then again, not everybody's new year begins in January. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't get eight cats to pull a sled through snow."--Jeff Valdez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 07:41:51 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: Periodicals: working copy The library receives subscriptions to all the periodicals we index (nearly 80 titles). This means patrons often have to use a marked up copy but few complain. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 08:35:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: 'Tis the season In-Reply-To: <199611251035.FAA26003@polaris.net> Lori Lathrop mentioned sending cards with a particular theme, which I think is a great idea. A friend's husband (a brilliant man who died way, way too young) was a talented artist. My friend sent me some of his beautiful illustrations and gave me permission to use them any way that I desired, as long as I credited the artist. For several years, I went to a copy shop, picked out really nice, parchmenty paper, and had Hugues's illustrations copied onto the paper and folded into holiday cards. I'll probably use some more of his lovely pen-and-ink drawings again. Many of my clients have cats and dogs and birds, and I have seven cats. My clients and I often discuss our critters and the crazy things they do. This year, I found some hilarious cards with cats on them. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't get eight cats to pull a sled through snow."--Jeff Valdez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 07:45:08 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: 'tis the season When I used to do free-lance consulting, I tried to determine during the course of a year if a client (specifically my contact) had any charitable causes in which they were interested. I then would make a small donation in their name to an appropriate organization. This was received well. I included a note about the donation in my "holiday" cards. I selected generic seasons greetings or happy holidays cards and mailed them between Christmas and New Years. This is also a solution for the people on your gift list who have everything. My mother-in-law loves this idea as she won't have to find a place to display it, dust it, obsess over discarding it, and on a fixed income can't afford to donate much to her favorite charity. Many organizations will send an acknowledgment card to the honoree. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 08:46:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: 'Tis the season (fwd) On Sun, 24 Nov 1996, Laura M. Gottlieb wrote: > I often send Thanksgiving cards because my employers are > some of the people I *am* very thankful for, and I sometimes send > Valentine's cards and/or chocolate treats because I care about them. What a lovely idea! I've always been worried about the religious connotations of sending out "holiday" cards, and I'm not a religious person, either. But this is just brilliant. Sending out Thanksgiving cards to those for whom you feel thankful, and sending Valentine's cards are super ways to thank your clients. I think Laura is going to change my whole philosophy on when to send cards that express how grateful I am to my clients. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't get eight cats to pull a sled through snow."--Jeff Valdez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 09:57:32 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Heather L. Ebbs" Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: 'Tis the season I send fairly generic "Happy Holidays" cards to all my clients at this time of year, and I add a personal note to many, or at least "best wishes for a healthy and prosperous 199_". As many others have mentioned, I have too many clients to send a gift to every one (and it would seem odd to many clients, I think). However, I do send an edible gift item to a very few (4 to 7) clients, and I send the same thing to all those clients in a given year to help me keep track for the following year. And because I usually am dealing with more than one person at those companies, I try to send something to my main contact person with a card naming everyone--or at least naming the key people--and thanking them for their continuing business and for being such good clients. I size the item according to the number of people who may be eating, and I try to send the items early enough in December that no one has yet gone on holidays. Last year, for example, I sent chocolates made in a local village and well known for their good quality: to an individual client, I sent a small box containing a half dozen truffles; to a client for whom I index a number of periodicals (and therefore a company at which I deal closely with 7 or 8 people), I sent a very large box (sorry, can't recall the weight) of assorted chocolates. Other clients received something in between those two sizes. The previous year, I sent cookie assortments, again choosing a high-quality local manufacturer and appropriately sized assortments. The gifts get raves; I get a continuing close relationship with clients I enjoy dealing with. Heather Ebbs ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Indexing question: Addition of vs. Adding This is my first post to this group. I'm not sure if this is the correct purpose of the group or not. I'm indexing an electronics math book and I'm lookgin for an opinion. Addition of binary numbers, 26-27 hexadecimal numbers, 31-32 octal numbers, 28-29 or Adding binary numbers, 26-27 hexadecimal numbers, 31-32 octal numbers, 28-29 I'm also indexing these under binary numbers, hexadecimal numbers, and octal numbers. The author's subheads use the phrasing "Addition of Binary Numbers," "Addition of Hexadecimal Numbers," etc. so maybe I should follow that convention? Thanks for the input, Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:45:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? In a message dated 96-11-23 22:06:04 EST, you write: > And then I thought, why not make the index light too? > It can be useful but still incorporate some of the humor in the book. ... So my question is, has anyone on this list > ever done anything like this, anything not strictly serious? Yes, and it is so much fun. I have one client who insists all of his jokes and funny stories in his software books get indexed, and they are my favorite books to index. I even double post items under things like "True confessions" and "Bad habits of those who should know better." It makes my day to type in entries like "Howling, making more time for" or "Stupid things to do with ResEdit." (He tends to like long entries). Do it! Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:11:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 'Tis the season Laura wrote: > >Dick asked about gift-giving practices. I make a practice of trying to >thank my steady employers once or twice a year, but as a non-religious >person, I'm increasingly uncomfortable with linking my thanks to the >Christmas season. I have exactly the same problem. I celebrate Christmas (as well as several other holidays, Kwanzaa being our big one) but it's important to me not to act as if I'm assuming that everyone else does too. So I've gone around about when to thank them, and mostly haven't done anything. I've thought about just starting my own tradition of happy Spring gifts and cards...thanks for inspiring me to think about it again! Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:36:29 CST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lonergan Lynn Subject: Re: 'tis the season EarthCare, a catalog specializing in "green" products, offers cards for the winter solstice and summer solstice. An alternative, perhaps? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lynn A. Lonergan Assistant Editor/Librarian Air University Library Maxwell AFB AL 36112-6424 334-953-2504; fax 334-953-1192 llonergan@max1.au.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:00:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Indexing question: Addition of vs. Adding In-Reply-To: <199611251653.LAA18439@polaris.net> On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: > Addition of > binary numbers, 26-27 > hexadecimal numbers, 31-32 > octal numbers, 28-29 > > or > > Adding > binary numbers, 26-27 > hexadecimal numbers, 31-32 > octal numbers, 28-29 Which terms does the author use most often: "addition" or "adding," "subtraction" or "subtracting," and so on? I think I'd let the prevalence of "-ion" or "-ing" guide me here. As to Sarah's first example, I think I'd write Addition of binary numbers of hexadecimal numbers of octal numbers I'd delete the "of" from the main heading. If you think the meaning would be clear, and if you don't like to use "little words" like "of" in your index, Addition binary numbers hexadecimal numbers octal numbers would be fine, too. I think it's a good idea that Sarah's also creating main headings for "binary numbers," "hexadecimal numbers," and "octal numbers." Just my $.02. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "On Thanksgiving Day all over America, families sit down to dinner at the same moment--halftime."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:02:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: cold calls 1)Here's a response to a marketing call that I want to share with you all: After I left a voice mail message for him, the gentleman called back within the hour and said, "Thanks so much for calling. These are the kinds of messages that can establish long and beneficial working relationships." He then went on to refer me to a more appropriate source of indexing projects within the company, a person similarly receptive and positive. It was a nice bright light in my day! 2) And thanks to all who responded so helpfully to my question on diacriticals a few weeks ago. I've been in the process of moving (note new address) and neglected to be appreciative! Barbara Stroup ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:19:00 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joel Schorn Subject: Job Ad Indexer-Analyst Non-profit association seeks accurate and flexible person with good reading, analytical and comprehension skills to index periodical and polygraph literature in the field of religion, create bibliographic records using a thesaurus and other authority sources, enter them into data files, and perform initial processing of data. Requires: master+s degree or at least 2 years of graduate study in a religious studies field, or comparable experience in the academic study of religion; indexing experience of some kind; experience with computers and data bases (working knowledge of MS Word for Windows 6.0, MS Mail, Netscape and CD-ROM searching skills preferred); abilility to read and work in German, French, Spanish or Italian--knowledge of Greek and/or Hebrew and/or an Asian language a plus. 37.5 hours weekly. Publishing atmosphere. Competitive wage and benefits. Send letter of interest and resume by December 16, 1996, to: Joel R. Schorn, Senior Editor, ATLA, 820 Church Street, Suite 400, Evanston, IL 60201-5613. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:50:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >Yes, and it is so much fun. I have one client who insists all of his jokes >and funny stories in his software books get indexed, and they are my favorite >books to index. I even double post items under things like "True confessions" >and "Bad habits of those who should know better." It makes my day to type in >entries like "Howling, making more time for" or "Stupid things to do with >ResEdit." (He tends to like long entries). > Great! I'm glad to hear of someone who is doing this. If anything needs some humor, it's computer books. Just thinking about the possibilities is like playing, not like work. Thank you. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing Editing Desktop Publishing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 19:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: Alternative Press Center -- Baltimore, MD In case anyone is interested, this came across the SLA listserv.... --------------------- Forwarded message: From: mdadamo@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (Margaret A. D'Adamo) Sender: SLAJOB@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU (Special Libraries Association Employment Opportunities) Reply-to: mdadamo@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (Margaret A. D'Adamo) To: SLAJOB@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU (Multiple recipients of list SLAJOB) Date: 96-11-25 15:32:02 EST The Alternative Press Center is looking for an information activist to join its small, progressive staff in Baltimore, Maryland. The Center is a non-profit organization with a 30 year history as a leading authority on the alternative press, publishing the respected Alternative Press Index and maintaining one of the world's foremost collections of alternative reading materials. Compensation for this full-time position beginning March 1, 1997 is $18,149 with health coverage and paid vacation. RESPONSIBILITIES Indexing. Subject categorization of periodical articles and related data entry. Editing. Review of material for inclusion in the Index and copy editing of the Index and other Center publications. Administration. Completion of day-to-day tasks, staffing of library, and oversight of one or more Center functions such as database management, finances, library development, marketing, or desktop publishing. QUALIFICATIONS B.A. or equivalent experience. M.A. in social sciences, humanities, computer science, or library science preferred. Familiarity with progressive periodicals, current events, and social movements. Ability to work independently with attention to detail. Experience with word processing and database software. Skill at writing, editing, bookkeeping, office management, promotion, and/or graphic design. Previous indexing or abstracting experience preferred. Access to IBM compatible personal computer preferred. Commitment to democracy, diversity, progressive causes, and social change. APPLICATIONS Send a letter and resume with names, phone numbers, and addresses of at least two personal and two work references by January 15, 1997. No phone calls or e-mail, please. Hiring Committee Alternative Press Center P.O. Box 33109 Baltimore, MD 21218 USA The Alternative Press Center encourages applicants of diverse age, ethnicity, gender, nationality, physical ability, religion, sexuality, and veteran status. For more information on the Center, visit our web page at http://www.igc.apc.org/altpress/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 22:32:47 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Journal Indexing or Rates Again! >I am interested in indexing a scholarly journal on Latin American >Studies/Literature. The articles are writen in Spanish, Portuguese and/or >English. I want to sell the editors the idea of publishing an index to >their entire collection for their 25th anniversary. Could someone tell me >how to charge for this type of index? (page, issue, year, entry, etc.?) and >what would the going rate be? I want to quote a standard/fair rate for >this job. Even if I don't get the job, I am still interested in learning >about this. > What a wonderful idea! I wish you luck with it. When I've had to bid on stuff like this, I've taken a sample (one or two issues, if they look pretty consistent) and indexed 'em to see how long they took. Then I add on a percentage for editing and proofing. Then I bid by the issue, citing how much time it took to index the sample (I include the sample with my bid to show what it might look like). It might not be a bad idea, though, to save the actual bid for the second letter, using the first letter just to sell them on the idea: listing all the reasons for indexing journals (including sales of back issues), stressing how important their journal is to scholars in that field, etc., etc. Good luck! Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 01:08:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: funny indexes Re funny indexes -- I noticed today that Lewis Carroll's book _Sylvie and Bruno_ has an index. I have only the first volume (_Sylvie and Bruno Concluded_ was published later, and I can't remember if he redid the index to include it) -- but here is the L section: Ladies, logic of; 235 Least Common Multiple, rule of, applied to Literature; 22 Life, how to enjoy; 335 " in falling house; 100 " in reversed order; 350 " purpose of, as viewed by Child; 330 " regarded as a Drama; 333 Literature, development of, due to Steam; 64 " " " Electricity; 64 " for Railway; 58 " treated by Rule of Least Common Multiple; 22 Little man, privilege of being a; 299 Liturgy, chanted, effect of; 273 Logic of Crocodiles; 230 " Dr. Watts; 235 " ladies; 235 " requisites for complete argument in; 259 Loving or being loved. Which is best? 77 You see he knows all about double posting. (There are entries for "Events in reversed order" and "Reversed order of events," too.) And the effect of the ditto marks is much the same as an indented index. Helen Schinske HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:44:04 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Periodicals: Working copy >Do you work from the periodical itself or from copies? If the latter, who >makes the copies, you or the client? If you make them, do you do it >yourself or hire it done? > Dick, on the three occasions I've bid on such projects, the client provided back issues. Even if you have to make copies, you shouldn't have to pay for it. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:44:10 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: 'Tis the season . . . >Subject: > >Do you give gifts to your clients for the holidays? > >In years past, I have. I usually gave a fruit basket costing about $30. >But, I only had 3-4 regular clients. This year, I have more regular clients >as well as some that I did only one job for. Do you give to regulars or to >everyone? Or perhaps a gift to regulars and just a card to others? > >Also, who do you direct the gift to: the person you have dealt with all year >or the head of the organization? >(Assuming they are not the same and assuming you know both.) > Dick, I send solstice or New Year's cards only, and I send them to all the people I actually deal with. I guess I'm cheap, but I really wouldn't want to send $30 (or even $10) gifts to clients. Another way to look at it is to think of the business contacts who send *you* gifts or cards. Insurance agents, realtors, accountants, etc., typically send a card. In fact, the only business contact I've ever received a gift from was a lawyer (when I worked as a claims adjuster). It was a bottle of whiskey. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 08:12:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Indexing question: Addition of vs. Adding >This is my first post to this group. I'm not sure if this is the correct >purpose of the group or not. Your post is entirely appropriate. > >I'm indexing an electronics math book and I'm lookgin for an opinion. > >Addition of > binary numbers, 26-27 > hexadecimal numbers, 31-32 > octal numbers, 28-29 > >or > >Adding > binary numbers, 26-27 > hexadecimal numbers, 31-32 > octal numbers, 28-29 Of the two, I prefer "addition," but I think I'd do it like this: Addition of binary numbers, 26-27 of hexadecimal numbers, 31-32 of octal numbers, 28-29 Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 08:29:11 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Copyediting The other day, I posted about finding people to take over the copyediting I do for university presses. I'm afraid I should have emphasized more that my clients are looking for people who are already experienced at copyediting dense, scholarly book-length mss. Other types of editing, which also require lots of skill, are just not the kind of experience they're looking for. I'm sorry to have needlessly disappointed a bunch of people, when I could have made that clearer in the first place. If you know someone who edits those kinds of books and would like an "in" with a new publisher or two, please have her or him contact me by e-mail or by phone, 414-964-5271. Thanks. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:04:32 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Re: 'Tis the season . . . In-Reply-To: <199611260645.WAA15053@mx5.u.washington.edu> It's probably not an issue for dealing with publishers or other for-profit agencies, but please keep in mind that if you are considering sending gifts to author clients who happen to work for government agencies, there are ethical considerations that might cause problems for the recipients under ethics/conflict of interest rules. For instance, as a state employee at the Univ. of Washington I am ABSOLUTELY PROHIBITED from accepting gifts of ANY value from vendors - and an indexer sending gifts to a faculty member would probably be considered a vendor. Cards are okay; but beyond that it would be a problem, at least in this state. Just something to keep in mind... Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, WA. phone: 206/930-4348 email: cweaver@u.washington.edu CGWeaver@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:53:00 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Thacker Jane Subject: New International Standard on indexes Subscribers to INDEX-L may be interested to know that the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has just published the second edition of International Standard ISO 999 under the title "Information and documentation - Guidelines for the content, organization and presentation of indexes". ISO 999:1996 is a complete revision and expansion of the 1975 ISO standard on indexes. It was prepared by ISO Technical Committee (TC) 46, Subcommittee (SC) 9, which is the ISO committee that is responsible for international standards on the presentation, identification and description of documents. The project leader for the second edition of ISO 999 was Ms. Janet Shuter of the U.K.. ISO 999 is available in separate English and French editions. Further information about ISO 999 is available on the ISO/TC 46/SC 9 Web site at this address: http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/iso/tc46sc9/index.htm How to acquire copies of ISO 999:1996: ISO standards are available for sale from ISO as well as from the national standards bodies that make up the membership of ISO. In the UNITED KINGDOM, ISO publications are available from the British Standards Institution (389 Chiswick High Road, London W4 4AL. Telephone: 44 181 996-9000. Telefax: 44 181 996 7400). In the U.S.A. from: American National Standards Institute (11 West 42nd Street, New York, N.Y. 10036. Telephone: 1-212-642-4900. Telefax: 1-212-398-0023). In CANADA, from: Standards Council of Canada (45 O'Connor Street, Suite 1200, Ottawa, K1P 6N7. Telephone: 1-800-267-8220. Telefax: 1-613-995-4564). In AUSTRALIA, from: Standards Australia (Head Office at: PO Box 1055, Strathfield NSW 2135, Australia. Telephone: (02) 746 4600. Telefax: (02) 746 3333) In FRANCE, from: AFNOR, Tour Europe, F-92049 Paris La Defense Cedex, France. Telephone: 33 1 42 91 55 55. Telefax: 33 1 42 91 56 56. ELSEWHERE: ISO publications are also available from the ISO Central Secretariat (1 rue de Varembe, C.P. 56, CH-1211 Geneve 20, Switzerland. Telefax: 41-22-733-3430). A complete list of ISO members is available on the ISO Web site at: http://www.iso.ch/addresse/membodies.html. Thank you. ---------------------------------- Jane Thacker for the ISO/TC 46/SC 9 Secretariat National Library of Canada Internet: iso.tc46.sc9@nlc-bnc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:35:05 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Re: Indexing question: Addition of vs. Adding In-Reply-To: <199611252033.AA14261@world.std.com> Hazel - Thanks for the great suggestions. I'm going with addition binary numbers The word of is driving me crazy. I've only indexed 6 or 7 books so I'll probably need some advice from time to time. Is this the right place? Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:22:58 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Benson Subject: Speed Reading & Ergonomics Thank you all for your advice about speed reading courses. I'll spend the money instead on reference books. Next, about relief from muscle pain. I've worked with computers for almost forty years and have always tried to use appropriate office equipment - chair, desk, light, etc. But, usually after an hour or so at the keyboard I develop a burning sensation in the back of my neck and across my shoulders. Only recently did it dawn on me that the keyboard was not really square with the monitor because I'd centered the entire keyboard with the monitor. Now I line up the 7 key with the middle of the screen. Such a minor change has given much relief to the pain in my neck. Regards, Carol Benson cbenson@ix.netcom.com Morrisville Vermont Weather today - six inches of snow; have two woodstoves going to offset the price of oil; ski resort in nearby Stowe is open ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 20:43:03 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joyce Constantine Subject: indexing statutes Could anyone who's indexed statutes comment on approximately how many pages per day they index and what they charge per page or day ? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 04:47:49 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael & Cheryl Dietsch Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? Rhonda Keith wrote: > > Great! I'm glad to hear of someone who is doing this. If anything needs > some humor, it's computer books. Just thinking about the possibilities is > like playing, not like work. Thank you. > > Rhonda Keith > Only You Publications > Autobiography~Oral History Services > and > Writing > Editing > Desktop Publishing In one of the computer programming books that I indexed several months ago, I put in an entry for loops eternal, see loops I remember reading somewhere else (this list maybe?) about another computer book that had that particular entry in the index. I've also put things like "Klink macro, see also Col. Hogan", but that never makes it past the proofreader. :) Cheryl Dietsch ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:38:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >In one of the computer programming books that I indexed several months >ago, I put in an entry for > > loops > eternal, see loops That's great. Did you also list under "eternal"? . I've also >put things like "Klink macro, see also Col. Hogan", but that never makes >it past the proofreader. :) Lots of sloppy and/or illiterate proofreaders around, though, so there are many possibilities. Rhonda Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:42:32 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: call for papers for 1997 Australian Indexers Conference, Central Coast, NSW Australian Indexers' Conference 1997 CALL FOR PAPERS Australian Society of Indexers (NSW Branch), PO Box R598, Royal Exchange, Sydney NSW 1225 Following the success of the international conference held at Marysville (Vic.) in 1995 and the Robertson conference organised by the ACT Branch earlier this year, it has become clear that indexers enjoy and benefit greatly from having regular opportunities to meet and discuss matters of continuing interest, and to explore new directions for the profession. As the next step, the New South Wales Branch of the Australian Society of Indexers is planning a two-day conference towards the end of 1997. We are seeking offers of papers from indexers who have topics which they would like to address at the conference. We would also appreciate suggestions of topics for papers and workshops, and names of speakers, from those who do not wish to present papers themselves. Please send your suggestions to me at the above address, or contact me at the numbers below. Suggestions will be welcome until the end of the year. Alan Walker NSW Branch Conference Committee Telephone: 02-93680174 Fax: 02-93585593 ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-93986726 (h) +61-2-94393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-94383729 (w), fax +61-2-96623037 (h) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:54:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Joyce Constantine! Sorry to bother the list. I tried to write to Joyce Constantine at her e-mail address, but my message just bounced back to me. "No such user." Hmmmm. If you're out there, Joyce, please let me know how I can best contact you. I simply hit "return," so I don't know why Joyce has disappeared from the ether. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "On Thanksgiving Day all over America, families sit down to dinner at the same moment--halftime."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:41:09 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? I caught the last few seconds of what sounded like an index discussion on the Car Guys (NPR) last Saturday. They were reading funny entries out of an index (snow, when you are stuck in the, is the only one I remember). Lots of funny stuff. At the end, they said something about "Those Saturn guys, always going a little above and beyond" or something like that anyway, that made me think they were looking at the index to a Saturn Owner's Manual. Anybody have one to check? I also remember, early in my days as a technical writer, that someone gave me a copy of the Volkswagen Beetle Owner's Manual (or maybe an after-market Repair Guide?) as an example of good/humorous technical writing... I don't remember looking at the index, and I probably don't have the book anymore, but someone else might... Ann Rhonda Keith wrote: > > I am new to this listserve and most of the threads are as yet way over my > head. I have a little experience indexing, and am taking a class. > > Also, I am in the early stages of putting together a book with someone else, > on travel anecdotes and tips. It will be pretty light reading; I suggested > we add the tips to make it more long-lived, and then of course it will need > a bit of indexing. And then I thought, why not make the index light too? > It can be useful but still incorporate some of the humor in the book. For > example, there was a recent news story about a gorilla being transported by > air, who was so unhappy with his accommodations that the plane had to be > grounded and all the passengers delayed so this gorilla could be shifted to > ground transport the rest of the way. So cross references could be > "animals, transport"; "gorillas, 800 pound, seating of"; or something along > those lines. You get the idea. So my question is, has anyone on this list > ever done anything like this, anything not strictly serious? > > (By the way, if any of you have any good travel stories -- or bad travel > stories -- and/or tips, please send them along for the book.) > > Rhonda Keith > Only You Publications > Autobiography~Oral History Services > and > Writing > Editing > Desktop Publishing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:45:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Indexing the Web There is a very interesting article on indexing the Web in The Washington Post's Business Section: "On the Web, A Catalogue of Complexity: Humans, Computers Vie To Sort Out the Tangle," by Leslie Walker. To get your own copy, go to "http://www.washingtonpost.com" and look for Monday's edition of the weekly Washington Business section. The article begins on p. 17. It continues on p. 20 under "Web Index" with the following headlines: "Humans, Computers Wage Indexing Battle." One line in particular is called out: "The outcome of the indexing wars could influence how the Web developes, because the chaos confronting Web users today is more than most people can handle." Opening lines include: "Who will build the biggest electronic card catalogue, the best index to the gigantic jumble that is the World Wide Web? Will it be computers or human beings?" Walker goes on to compare directories such as Yahoo and operations such as Infoseek. "By my experience, the people-created directories are more reliable, because they use genuine human minds to classify the often-strange material on the Web, not artificial intelligence. But the trade-off is speed and cost. The human cataloguers simply never get to many sites." --It's a good article and I recommend it. Happy thanksgiving, Pilar Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:57:16 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kris Van Dellen Subject: funny indexes Years ago, I had a white VW bug - with gray & blue pinstripes and pillows where the seats should be (the seat frames were in place, the 'stuffing' & fabric were gone). Fancy on the outside, spartan within but fun to drive. Until sleet arrived. Driving while scraping the windshield is, much to my surprise, an attainable skill. At any rate, this book was ever so helpful and quite amusing: Muir, John, 1918- How to keep your Volkswagen alive! A manual of step-by-step procedures for the compleat idiot J. Muir Publications That is, as far as I know, the author's real name. There are many editions of the book. LC lists "John Muir idiot book auto series", the 14th edition is: "distributed to the book trade by WW Norton, c1990" ISBN 0945465807 $19.95 437 pages >>Includes index :-) Kris ------------------- Kristine Van Dellen libr@cray.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:22:39 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing Subject: Re: Indexing the Web I was interested in reading the Washington Post article on web indexing that Pilar suggested. Unfortunately it has taken me more than five minutes and I still haven't been able to track it down. (The web site's right, I just can't seem to find the right link to the article itself. That's one of my biggest gripes with newspaper sites: most don't have a simple calendar-type mechanism. Like: Click on the following date for that day's material: November 21 -- November 22 -- November 23, etc.) I tried using the Post's search screen, since I had the exact article title, but zero hits resulted. Go figure. Anyway, five minute's about as long as I'll spend trying to find something. If somebody out there happens to find the article, could you post the URL? Thanks. (And thanks for pointing out the article, Pilar.) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:39:44 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helvettia Martell Subject: Re: Indexing the Web >I was interested in reading the Washington Post article on web indexing that >Pilar suggested. Unfortunately it has taken me more than five minutes and I >still haven't been able to track it down. (The web site's right, I just can't >seem to find the right link to the article itself. That's one of my biggest >gripes with newspaper sites: most don't have a simple calendar-type mechanism. >Like: Click on the following date for that day's material: November 21 -- >November 22 -- November 23, etc.) I tried using the Post's search screen, >since I had the exact article title, but zero hits resulted. Go figure. > >Anyway, five minute's about as long as I'll spend trying to find something. If >somebody out there happens to find the article, could you post the URL? Thanks. >(And thanks for pointing out the article, Pilar.) > Pilar: It took me a few minutes to find it. I finally made a search and got a screen with a list of relevant articles, and I found it there. The URL for the list is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/cgi-bin/search. The specific URL for that article is very long and "illegible", that's why I am posting the previous screen. It is the first article on the list. Helvetia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:00:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >> On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 04:47:49 -0600, >> "Indexer's Discussion Group" said: C> In one of the computer programming books that I indexed several months C> ago, I put in an entry for C> loops C> eternal, see loops My personal favorite has always been recursion, see recursion -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil Copywight 1994 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved. --Ken Applin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:09:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helvettia Martell Subject: Re: Indexing the Web Pilar: After I posted my mesage, I tried that URL I gave you and did not work because it is the result of a search (I guess that's the reason). I apologize. Here is the URL for the article: http://wp2.washingtonpost.com/cgi-bin/displaySearch?WPlate+37390+%28indexing %26web%29%3Adescription%26and%2619961113%3Cevent%5Fdate Helvetia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:11:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Marie-Lise Shams Subject: washington post article Helvettia Martell wrote: <> This URL is only for "your search", it will not retrieve anything if entered by itself. One needs to go to the search screen and reenter the search terms in order to retrieve the list of articles. Marie-Lise ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Marie-Lise Shams ^ ^ Information Specialist ^ ^ Consortium for International Earth ^ ^ Science Information Network (CIESIN) ^ ^ 2250 Pierce Road ^ ^ University Center Michigan 48710 ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Phone: +1-517-797-2790 ^ ^ Fax: +1-517-797-2622 ^ ^ E-mail: mshams@ciesin.org ^ ^ URL: http://www.ciesin.org ^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:16:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: funny indexes Thanks, Kris, that is indeed the one I was remembering. What's the inedx like? Ann Kris Van Dellen wrote: > > Years ago, I had a white VW bug - with gray & blue pinstripes and > pillows where the seats should be (the seat frames were in place, > the 'stuffing' & fabric were gone). Fancy on the outside, spartan > within but fun to drive. Until sleet arrived. Driving while scraping > the windshield is, much to my surprise, an attainable skill. > > At any rate, this book was ever so helpful and quite amusing: > > Muir, John, 1918- > How to keep your Volkswagen alive! A manual of step-by-step > procedures for the compleat idiot > J. Muir Publications > > That is, as far as I know, the author's real name. There are > many editions of the book. LC lists "John Muir idiot book > auto series", the 14th edition is: > "distributed to the book trade by WW Norton, c1990" > ISBN 0945465807 > $19.95 > 437 pages > >>Includes index :-) > > Kris > ------------------- > Kristine Van Dellen > libr@cray.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:20:25 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing Subject: Post article "It took me a few minutes to find it. I finally made a search and got a screen with a list of relevant articles, and I found it there. The URL for the list is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/cgi-bin/search. The specific URL for that article is very long and "illegible", that's why I am posting the previous screen. It is the first article on the list." If you're like me, you got a blank screen when you tried the above URL. I did a little more investigating and found the correct URL. It is long, but just click and copy the URL from this e-mail, then switch screens (Alt-Tab) or minimize and click on Netscape or whatever you use and then paste the URL into the WWW box that contains the URL. (I assume these instructions are generic enough: I can do them on my big and fancy, expensive PC-network computer at work AND my small and not so fancy PC at home.) That way you don't have to retype it. http://wp2.washingtonpost.com/cgi-bin/displaySearch?WPlate+37390+%28cybersurfing %3Acolumn%26flubs%3Acolumn%26networkings%3Acolumn%26cybertalk%3Acolumn%26cybers urfing%3Acolumn%26and%26flubs%3Acolumn%26and%26networkings%3Acolumn%26cybertalk %3Acolumn%26digita l%3Akeyword%29%3AALL (In case your copy of this URL came through with spaces, please note there are no spaces.) Larry Baker Larry_Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:21:44 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing Subject: You're fast, Helvetia You beat me to it, Helvetia! Larry Baker Larry_Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:18:27 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? At 09:41 AM 11/27/96 -0500, Ann Norcross wrote: >I also remember, early in my days as a technical writer, that someone >gave me a copy of the Volkswagen Beetle Owner's Manual (or maybe an >after-market Repair Guide?) as an example of good/humorous technical >writing... I don't remember looking at the index, and I probably don't >have the book anymore, but someone else might... Ann, I not only remember the book, I =owned= it! The author was John Muir (perhaps a pseudonym), and it was based very loosely on _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Repair_. I can no longer remember the exact title, but the subtitle was "A Manual for the Complete Idiot." Since we had just purchased our first VW camper, we certainly qualified. That book was our bible for years, and it was not only very funny, but extremely clear and helpful. I would read it just for fun sometimes, to admire the author's ability to convey auto mechanics in a useful and humorous way. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:35:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Karl E. Vogel" Organization: Control Data Systems Inc. Subject: Re: Indexing the Web >> On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 11:22:39 EDT, >> "Indexer's Discussion Group" said: I> I was interested in reading the Washington Post article on web indexing that I> Pilar suggested. [...] If somebody out there happens to find the article, I> could you post the URL? Thanks. If you'd like to go directly to the Post search page, use this URL: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/searches/mainsrch.htm Find the prompt labelled "Any word(s) in the article", and enter something like "internet index". I got 4 hits, the first of which was the article in question. -- Karl Vogel vogelke@c17.wpafb.af.mil 937-255-3688 Control Data Systems, Inc. ASC/YCOA, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433 I had my coathangers spayed. --Steven Wright ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:27:29 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing the Web My apologies, everyone, for how difficult it is to actually *get* to that article! --too bad the Post doesn't just provide an index, but I suppose this ties in (ironically? nicely?) with the topic of the article, too... ;-D Apologies for my typos in the posting, too. Anyway, it's taken me a couple days to get back to reading that article, what with a couple deadlines here. I'm glad to see some 'mainstream' publicity on this topic, finally. Pilar Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:29:08 -0500 Reply-To: cyrm@ecworld.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maude Cyr Organization: Institut mondial du commerce ilectronique Subject: Indexing the Web Thanks Pilar for the Washington Post reference. There is a good background article that deals with indexation and information retrieval on the web : "Seek and Ye Shall Find (Maybe)" by Steve G Steinberg. It appeared in Wired 4.05 (May 96) and is available at this address : http://www.hotwired.com/wired/4.05/features/indexweb.html I'm participating in a small research project which deals in part with the notion of indexing Web contents. If any of you have any leads on the subject, I would certainly appreciate it! Thanks Maud Cyr Montreal, Quebec cyrm@ecworld.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:46:57 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: ethics among indexers As some of you may know, I am chairing ASI's ethics committee, which will prepare a draft of a code of ethics for ASI members. Before you get all excited, I should tell you that this is intended to be a set of *suggestions* for how indexers should treat each other in a variety of situations, not as a way for ASI to police our behavior. I would like to hear (reply privately, please) from those of you who have a story to tell. Did some other indexer treat you in a way that you consider unethical? I would appreciate hearing what the situation was and what you think the person did wrong. But *please* conceal this person's identity; my purpose here is to gather info about issues to be addressed while maintaining my objectivity. I ask that you reply off-list, so as not to start a flame war on Index-L. You know, one person thinks she recognizes herself or himself in the story, replies in defense, etc., etc. I can't promise to reply to each of you who respond--because I will be pretty busy writing the code and circulating drafts to committee members--but I do appreciate your help. Cheers, Carol Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 16:56:28 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Philip and Heather Jones Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? Ann wrote: >I caught the last few seconds of what sounded like an index discussion >on the Car Guys (NPR) last Saturday. They were reading funny entries >out of an index (snow, when you are stuck in the, is the only one I >remember). I heard that show, too, and was frantically trying to find a pencil to write down the index entries they mentioned. I never did find a pencil, but I remember they mentioned the following entries (wording may have been a little different): Arm, how your seatbelt goes over your snow, what to do when stuck in deep towed, what to do when you have to be wheels, if you can't rotate your Heather /---------------------------------------------------------------------\ | There are such things as cause and effect, but they have nothing to | | do with each other... | |---------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, NM | \---------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:21:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Barbara Stroup Subject: Pilar's Post article It took awhile, but I found it by using this search engine: http://wpl.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/searches/mainsrch.htm It's definitely worth reading - thanks, Pilar, and I'm glad to have taken a look at the Wash. Post site - it's a good one. Barbara Stroup ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:26:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >Ann wrote: I >remember they mentioned the following entries (wording may have been a >little different): > >Arm, how your seatbelt goes over your > >snow, what to do when stuck in deep > >towed, what to do when you have to be > >wheels, if you can't rotate your > >Heather This reminds me of the kind of things I've read about military supply lists - things like "trousers, officers, for the use of." I was never in the service; maybe this is a British thing? Also remember guys talking about "U-trou" (underwear). Thanks to all who mentioned the VW manual. I do remember my VW bugs, particularly the Q-bug, which I won in a radio station's (radio Q-something in Manhattan, Kansas) drawing. I counted all the Q's painted on it - hundreds, maybe a couple of thousand - to win. Won it full of 2-liter bottles of Coke, and a tape player much more valuable than the used bug. The tape player was promptly stolen. But I had fun driving it for a couple of years. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:42:18 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Thanksgiving wish Hello all, I just wanted to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving and let you know that I am thankful for all of you, for both the professional words of wisdom and the personal chat. Hope you all have a wonderful holiday and don't spend too much of it trying to make deadlines. And if there are those of you who do not celebrate the holiday, I hope you are able to take a long weekend and enjoy yourselves anyway. Leslie Leslie Leland Frank Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:52:47 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: 'Tis the season . . . In addition to keeping in touch with clients via non-religious cards, I also send SMALL tokens of appreciation (like gourmet cookies or hedonist's soap. A larger gift might make the recipient feel uncomfortable) to indexers and other colleagues who have sent clients my way, even if the job never materialized. I have received a few for the same reason, and it makes me feel the referral was appreciated. I send more substantial gifts to colleagues who have spent time helping me with computer problems and the like. Susan Susan Holbert "Training workshops and videos" INDEXING SERVICES 24 Harris Steet Waltham, MA 02154-6105 617-893-0514 susanh@world.std.com http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 21:42:53 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nancy Humphreys Subject: speed reading I took a day long workshop on the Evelyn Wood method and found it very useful. Basically the idea is to stop subvocalizing while you read and just use your eyes. They show you exercizes that prove your comprehension does not go down when your speed goes up, but I have to confess I am not trusting enough to use speed reading in my work. But I do read that way when I'm off duty and it has been very helpful in getting caught up with all the journals and magazines and books that pile up around the house (Key Words for example..) I think it is worth the time to take the class. I used to read novels at a rate of 60 pages an hour; now it is double that. Unfortunately I don't type any faster than I did before the course..... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:50:50 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: ethics among indexers Carol, Will the proposed code also treat the relationship between indexer and client? Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services P.S. I think the idea of the code is a good one. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 03:56:34 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael & Cheryl Dietsch Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? Rhonda Keith wrote: > > That's great. Did you also list under "eternal"? > Yes, I did have the page reference listed under "eternal loops". Didn't want the reader to get too frustrated with the "eternal loops" in the index! :) Cheryl Dietsch ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >Yes, I did have the page reference listed under "eternal loops". Didn't >want the reader to get too frustrated with the "eternal loops" in the >index! :) > The mark of a real pro. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:24:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Journal Indexing or Rates Again! >>I am interested in indexing a scholarly journal on Latin American >>Studies/Literature. The articles are writen in Spanish, Portuguese and/or >>English. I want to sell the editors the idea of publishing an index to >>their entire collection for their 25th anniversary. Could someone tell me >>how to charge for this type of index? (page, issue, year, entry, etc.?) and >>what would the going rate be? I want to quote a standard/fair rate for >>this job. Even if I don't get the job, I am still interested in learning >>about this. Query: Does anyone know if Writer's Market has rates for indexing, which they do for various kinds of writing jobs? Also, wouldn't you charge more for being able to work in more than one language on one publication? Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:12:56 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >put things like "Klink macro, see also Col. Hogan", but that never makes >it past the proofreader. :) I heard somone say recently that she put an entry for her mother's name in an index just to see how well the index was edited. The bogus entry was in the published index! This is sort of like bogus entries which sometimes appear in film credits just to see how many folks actually sit through the credits. And like the film credits, I imagine few readers will catch the cute entries -- I think most readers are looking for specific entries and don't scan the whole index. What do others think about how readers use indexes? Happy Thanksgiving to all, Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 09:40:41 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Heather L. Ebbs" Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Indexes of translations Once again a client has asked about translating my English-language index into French when the book itself is translated. My standard answer has always been that I don't recommend a direct translation. Rather, I recommend hiring a French-language indexer to prepare a new index, and I then refer a couple of names. What's the word from my listmates? By the way, if you're a French-language scientific indexer, I'd like to hear from you. Heather Ebbs editink@istar.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:43:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Writer's Market In-Reply-To: <199611281422.JAA04383@polaris.net> Rhonda asked if _Writer's Market_ contains information on indexers' rates. I just checked my 1997 _Writer's Market_ (while my husband toils over the turkey), and yes, indeed, such wisdom is contained therein. I'm quoting from _Writer's Market_ here: "Indexing: $20-$40/hour; charge higher hourly rate if using a computer index program that takes fewer hours. Also can charge $2-$6/indexable page; 40-70 cents per line of index or a flat fee of $250-500 depending on length." I guess the author assumes that many indexers use index cards and that a "computer index program" (Macrex? Cindex? a no-human-needed "automatic indexer"?) automatically makes the task go much more quickly. Not question of thought involved here. I found the last part of the quotation absolutely hilarious. Two hundred fifty to $500 dollars for an index, "depending on length"? So, folks, if you're indexing a 3,000-page-long book on the Uniform Commercial Code (as I once did), I guess you should consider a flat fee of $500. ;)) To those who celebrate Thanksgiving, a very happy day to you. And to everyone: I'm very thankful for all your collective wisdom! Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "On Thanksgiving Day all over America, families sit down to dinner at the same moment--halftime."--Unknown ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:29:25 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Heather L. Ebbs" Organization: Editor's Ink Subject: Re: Fun in indexes In a text about Canadian politics, the author referred a number of times to Sir John A. MacDonald (our first prime minister). One of these references was about his involvement with the Canadian Pacific Railway and was truly indexable, but the other times the references were trivial and along the lines of "if he knew what was happening today, he would be turning over in his grave" or "he would be leaping out of his grave". Since I had the rare pleasure of no length limitations for the index, I included the subentry "no comfort in his grave". I pointed it out in my cover memo to the editor, who found it amusing and said it could stay. Both of us saw it as a sort of signature line for me in the index. And I'm sure any reader looking up Sir John A would get a smile. Heather Ebbs editink@istar.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 14:14:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexes of translations Heather, I absolutely agree with you. It would not be appropriate to simply translate an index. And it would lead to incorrect page numbers. Since the sentence structure and syntax in a foreign language are different from English, the length of the paragraphs, and therefore the pagination, would be different. Consequently, there would be gross errors in page numbers in the index in terms of page ranges. There would also be slight differences in where a discussion of a subject began. If a subject is discussed for 3 sentences toward the bottom of a page, say in the bottom quarter of it, it is entirely possible that in the foreign language the discussion would start on the top of the next page, or would span the two pages. So a direct translation would be inappropriate. I could see using the original index as a model for the new one, so that an experienced indexer might not need to totally re-index the book. Why re-invent the wheel if it is not necessary. But I think that at best the English index should be used as a guide to the French one, but not translated. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 14:14:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Referring to Legal Cases A question for a friend .... How would one index a legal case that appears in a discussion as "In the memorable case of "In re Neagle" (1890), which still makes good reading for those ... Justice Samuel Miller spoke with feeling of ....." The book is about the presidency, so it is not full of legal citations, and is not meant for use necessarily by the legal community, but rather by historians and history buffs. When I researched this in Mulvaney, I found reference to case law cited as Smith v. Jones, but not this form of citation. Would it appear in an index under "In re Neagle"? Thank you, legal beagles, Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 14:42:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Referring to Legal Cases In-Reply-To: <199611281913.OAA19477@polaris.net> On Thu, 28 Nov 1996 JPerlman@AOL.COM wrote: > Would it appear in an index > under "In re Neagle"? > > Thank you, legal beagles, One achingly full legal beagle reporting in. In an index, such cases should appear as _Neagle, In re_ You might want to make the following cross-reference: _In re_. _See name of party_ The same sort of thing will come up when you hit case names that begin with _Appeal of_ _Application of_ _Ex parte_ Treat these as you would the "_In re_" cases. You might also run into cases that begin with _City of_ _Estate of_ _Village of_ Here, you might want to use the name of the city, owner of the estate, or name of the village (for example, _San Antonio v. Smith_). You could then create cross-references like _City of_. _See name of city_ And then you might run into cases that begin with _Commonwealth v._ _State v._ _State ex rel. v._ _United States v._ _United States ex rel. v._ For such cases, you might want to use the name of the opposing party. I'd check with the press first, though. So, you'd either have _Commonwealth v. Jones_ or _Jones, Commonwealth v._ Again, if you do flip the order, I'd make cross-references like _Commonwealth v._. _See opposing party_ Legal cases are italicized (or underlined). However, if you're preparing a table of cases, the readers' eyes might glaze over if they have to read nothing but italics. When I prepare tables of cases, I check with the publisher first, but I normally end up using Roman type. However, if case names are interspersed throughout an index, I'd italicize them. Thus endeth the lecture. I ate too much, and everybody else is either snoozing or watching TV. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@polaris.net), Tallahassee, Florida, USA "Dogs come when they're called; cats take a message and get back to you."--Missy Dizick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 03:30:00 GMT0 Reply-To: hcalvert@cix.compulink.co.uk Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hilary Calvert Subject: Society of Indexers conference in Dublin 1997 Preliminary announcement The 1997 Society of Indexers conference is to be held in Dublin (Ireland) on September 6th and 7th 1997. For more details contact Helen Litton, 45 Eglinton Road, Donnybrook, DUBLIN 4, Irish Republic, phone number +353 1 2692214. 1997 is SI's 40th anniversary. Come and help us celebrate!