From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 9-AUG-1996 08:00:04.67 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9607D" Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 07:39:11 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9607D" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:14:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was maryann@REVISOR.LEG.STATE.MN.US From: Maryann Corbett Organization: Revisor of Statutes Subject: job announcement-rush I've received a call from Cindy Miller of Clarinda Co. She's looking for someone to index a 900-page book on finance. She has page proofs. She needs a fast turnaround time, about one week. If there's anybody out there who can fit this job in, call Cindy at 612-699-2771. -- Maryann Corbett Language Specialist Office of the Revisor of Statutes Minnesota Legislature 612-297-2952 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:33:24 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: scanners I've just discovered that the copy I will be working from for this Victorian novel (by the way it's Scenes and Characters, an early Charlotte M. Yonge) is going to be printed from microfilm, as they can't get a first edition photocopied. Therefore, it will be a pretty bad original and is not likely to be scannable. It is an important work for scholars in that field, so its rarity makes it all the more important to get a copy online. Fortunately for me it is not one of her longer works. I figure it will take me about as long as knitting a sweater--with the important difference that if I find myself unable to continue it will be quite easy for someone else to finish the project! Thanks to all who wrote with advice and offers of help. --Helen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:31:26 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: KIRABOO@AOL.COM Subject: Indexing software recommendations Hello everyone. I am new to indexing, and have been avidly reading messages & learning a lot from INDEX-L for several months now. Here's my question: having already indexed one book using index cards, I would like to avoid ever doing that again. But Ii am having trouble deciding what software to buy. The computer I'll be using is an IBM compatible PC, a recent hand-me-down. I've been reading the ASI publication "Guide to Indexing Software", and basing a lot of my decisions on that information. I have eliminated both Cindex and Macrex due to budget constraints, and INDEXX and wINDEX because they allow for only one level of subheadings. Obviously HyperIndex is out because it's just for Macs. The choices I find myself left with are IndexAid2 and InSort, plus another program not reviewed in the software guide, called SKY Index. I received some promotional information from the latter company, and it looks like a good possibility. Does anyone have any input to help me make a decision? Any advice would be welcome, and can be e-mailed to me directly if that seems more appropriate. Thanks for any help. Jennifer Deaton kiraboo@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:30:24 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christi Diamond Subject: Re: indexing software Hello everyone, Jennifer, thank you for asking that question - it seems like you and I are in the same boat. I am also looking for dedicated indexing software but can't afford either Macrex or Cindex. So I'm looking for more affordable options, especially something that would be good to run on Windows 95. SKY Index is the only one I've found so far. Does anyone have any feedback or suggestions? I'd appreciate any responses either to the list or to me personally at cdiamond@hevanet.com Thanks, Christi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:01:43 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: sample pages >Sorry, another question. When you all send sample pages, how many pages do >you send, from what part of the index, and how many different indexes? Do >you worry about good page breaks and all that? Or what? Hi, Rachel. I send 2 or 3 pages, single-spaced (pointing out in my cover letter that the index is condensed so as to be able to provide more of it--don't want 'em thinking I turn in single-spaced indexes). I always send it from the very beginning of the index; in the cover letter, I briefly describe the book each index was for. The number of indexes I send depends on whether an editor has requested them--anyway, usually two is enough--and I choose the samples to send in a variety of ways, depending on what I'm trying to show. No, I don't worry about page breaks, because I don't think the samples are understood to be camera-ready copy or anything like that. So, I don't make columns, either; the samples are simply excerpts from index manuscripts. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:11:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Resumes -- summary? In-Reply-To: <960723191203_75711.1537_FHN54-1@CompuServe.COM> What I have heard across the board is that every profession (and every person as well) requires a different selling style. A resume is great if you want to show work history. Pamphlets are great if you want to list skills and prices. In-person meetings are great if you like the hard sell -- or you think your potential clients require it. Sample work is great if (a) you have something worth showing, (b) it's appropriate for what you're selling yourself for, or (c) you actually believe your client wants to see it. And so on. For me, looking for a freelance job, I would take the following steps (ideally): 1. Prepare a cover letter of sorts -- something that resembles a pamphlet in content but is a lot more personal because it has somebody's name on it. It includes basic "Who I am" stuff, along with "What I can do" stuff. I would mention some immediately relevant background and some immediate goals. 2. Follow up with a phone call. (Of course, you might want to reverse steps 1 and 2, especially if you are given your potential client's name and number by a mutual acquaintance.) Stress your skills and your great personality traits. 3. Continue with something more substantial -- if they still aren't convinced. Maybe they need to see a sample of work. Maybe they need references. Maybe they actually need to see your face (if they haven't yet). Maybe this is an appropriate time to send a resume, if you think it will help. But if you have gotten this far, they are interested. In many retail businesses, every customer who walks in the door is considered a "sale" -- and so everyone who leaves the store without buying is considered a "lost sale." If you can get to this step, you have a "sale." Push now, and don't lose it. 4. Prepare something special for them. This can be anything from a quote for a possible contract, some free advice, a contact of reference they might find particularly useful or helpful, a sample of your work, or even a one-on-one tour of your worksite. Usually if you haven't gotten the contract before this step, they just need something to tip the scales. 5. If you haven't tipped the scales by now, it's probably because there isn't a match. This can be because (a) they already have somebody they trust and although you are great, they don't want to take a risk; (b) the project isn't finalized and they can afford to keep looking; (c) you aren't what they want, period; (d) they aren't what *you* want, period; (e) money problems/disagreements; (f) schedule problems.disagreements. If you got this far, though, this is someone you need to follow up with *all the time. Call or write every six months. Make sure they get a few of your business cards, and ask them for referrals! (Odds are that your not being a match doesn't mean you're not qualified for something similar with someone else.) - Seth Seth A. Maislin O'Reilly & Associates Focus Publishing Services 90 Sherman Street 89 Grove Street Cambridge MA 02140 Watertown MA 02172-2826 (617) 499-7439 phone (617) 924-4428 (617) 661-1199 facsimile smaislin@world.std.com seth@ora.com WWW: http://jasper.ora.com/seth/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:27:42 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing software recommendations In a message dated 96-07-23 18:22:43 EDT, you write: << I have eliminated both Cindex and Macrex due to budget constraints, >> If you intend to be serious as an indexer, this is a big mistake. Both offer demo versions (about $50, but don't quote me). Buy a demo version and practice with it until you get your first contract then order the full blown version and pay for it out of the first paycheck. The price of the demo is applied to the final purchase price. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:34:43 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JEANNEHPPS@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing software recommendations Greetings: I, too, have been lurking at this site for months now. I have used IndexAid to prepare the 60+ indexes I have done in my freelance indexing service. Although I sometimes wonder whether Cindex or Macrex would be better, I would highly recommend IndexAid for beginning indexers! It's somewhat quirky to learn at first, and operates with DOS rather than Windows, but I have not had much trouble with it at all. One of my indexing helpers experimented with the program to find that if you call the files up in Word from the Windows file manager before you sort them, you can run a spell check on them. Then your sorting requires less editing. Good luck with your indexing career and Index Aid! Jeanne Busemeyer Hyde Park Publishing Services ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:13:32 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: WEBIX downloaders!! ahoy! Hi I have had close on 70 downloads of WEBIX for Windows and about 60 for WEBIX for DOS. If you are one of those please email and tell me how you found it. Also you may like to enter the Web indexing prize. It's been pretty quiet out there - plenty of lurkers but not many emailing ye olde Webmaster on download of WEBIX. Many thanks Pass this on if you know of a friend you've copied it for. It's still free but I just want some positive feedback. Thanks Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-4383729 (w) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:25:50 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Termurray@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing software recommendations I second Dick Evan's recommendation. I ordered IndexAid2 to escape my index cards and enter the computer age and "outgrew" the program with the very next project offered to me. I called the Cindex and Macrex companies that day; Cindex support answered the phone, Macrex had the answering machine on, so by luck of the draw I have been a devoted Cindex user for about four years now. I did just as Dick suggested: drew a deep breath, pulled out a credit card, and paid for the software with the check from the project. I didn't have time to order the demo so my learning curve was a little steeper, but Indexing Research's technical support pulled me through, and book by book for different publishers I can still count on the program to handle how I need to format the entries or to manipulate or structure the index. My most fervent kudos go to the technical support people who get me going when I come up against something unusual. If the timing had been different for me, now that I think about it, for the price of IndexAid I could have had demo versions of both programs, based on Dick's estimate! Good luck! Terry Murray ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:02:03 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: PAPER: Roxanne Missingham, Indexing the Internet: pinning jelly to the wall? Greetings earthlings! Another paper from our Indexing in the Electronic Age conference has been added to our growing collection on the AusSI Web site http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi I have loaded a fully (lovely in my opinion) HMTL-ed version of Roxanne's great paper on comparisons of internet search engines. She's got some great links to on other people's good comparisons too. Her URL is: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/MissinghamR.htm or just to our home page and click on the Indexing in the Electronic Age Papers link... and navigate... :) Thanks Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-4383729 (w) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:59:55 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Indexing software recommendations To add to the chorus .... if you're serious about indexing, buy software that will see you through for the long haul at the first chance. To the best of my knowledge, the large majority of indexers end up with either Cindex or Macrex. Some keep the less expensive programs for a while, but eventually most outgrow them. It's probably a good idea to try them both. They work entirely differently, and one may be more "comfortable" than they other. Or make it your business to view them at the annual meeting of ASI each year, where the representatives are always on hand to answer questions and demonstrate. But either way, buy the tool that will ultimately be the mainstay ofyour business at the earliest possible date. As many have already said, your first job will more than pay for the software. It'll be the best investment you ever made. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:56:24 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Margaret Schaus Subject: Copywrite status of Abstracts? Dear Indexers, I am an academic librarian beginning an index of journal articles and essays about medieval women. Some of the articles include an abstract of the contents. Can I include these abstracts in my database that I plan to make available over the Internet? Or do I need to obtain permission from each journal? I would be glad to correspond with other database compilers, especially in the social sciences and humanities, with regard to software, record fields, and logistics. Margaret Schaus Reference Librarian Haverford College mschaus@haverford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:48:58 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Indexing software recommendations In-Reply-To: <9607251425.AA10628@mx4.u.washington.edu> For anyone who intends to make indexing a business (as opposed to a hobby or a once-in-a-lifetime event) there is really no alternative to investing in top of the line indexing software. As others have pointed out, the programs can be paid for with your first check; and they will pay for themselves in time saved the first time you use them. I have at least three clients who ask for the output as Cindex .dat files, since that's what they use in-house for production; and others simply say that they expect their indexers to be using professional [i.e. Cindex or Macrex] indexing software. So you can either invest in the right tools from the beginning or do it later to remain competitive. I started out in 1992 using a $100 indexing software package and a $800 used 286/12mh computer with an old dot matrix printer. Within 6 months I bought Cindex and upgraded to a new 486 - having spent $900 on obsolete software and equipment that could have been applied toward the cost of the professional-level software/hardware that is still fully functional 4 years later. An economical startup??? I don't think so. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:59:06 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Copywrite status of Abstracts? In-Reply-To: <9607251521.AA13457@mx3.u.washington.edu> Abstracts are usually copyrighted with the article, and you DO need permission to use them in a publication, whether print or online. For example, my understanding is that one of the reason that only 60% or so of the articles in MEDLINE have abstracts is because NLM doesn't have permission from all publishers to include them in the database. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Margaret Schaus wrote: > Dear Indexers, > > I am an academic librarian beginning an index of journal articles and > essays about medieval women. Some of the articles include an abstract of > the contents. Can I include these abstracts in my database that I plan to > make available over the Internet? Or do I need to obtain permission from > each journal? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:42:55 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: Re: Copywrite status of Abstracts? Abstracts are copyright by the author of the abstract or the person or institution the author transferred the rights to. Not all, not even most, abstract are written by the author of the piece. I am the managing editor of _Library Currents_, a newsletter that publishes original abstracts written by subcontractors. They transfer the copyright to the newsletter as part of their contract with me. So, yes, you must have permission to reprint the abstract. However, many publications will give you this permission without charge. Hope this helps. Neva = < +> = * = < +> = * = < +> = * = < + > = * = < + > = * = < + > = * = < + > =*=<+> Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services njsmith@bga.com PO Box 2157, Round Rock, TX 78680-2157 voice/fax +1-512-244-2767 & Editor, _Library Currents_ PO Box 2199, Round Rock, TX 78680-2199 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:18:30 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: searching for Michelle aka MarvyMom I made an indexing contact, Michelle from Illinois, and was helping her get information on getting started. When I last went to email her, I was notified that her address no longer exists. She was last seen doing cites for an indexer in New Jersey. Has anyone heard of/from her? Michelle, are you out there? Leslie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:02:00 PDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Henderson Subject: Re: Copyright status of Abstracts? >I am an academic librarian beginning an index of journal articles and >essays about medieval women. Some of the articles include an abstract of >the contents. Can I include these abstracts in my database that I plan to >make available over the Internet? Or do I need to obtain permission from >each journal? Margaret, the abstracts are certainly copyright, and you need permission to use them. One of the databases produced in my area includes published abstracts, but in every case we get permission from the publishers to use them. In those cases where permission is refused (only around 1% of journals in our experience) we write our own abstracts, as we do for those articles which do not include an abstract. >I would be glad to correspond with other database compilers, especially in >the social sciences and humanities, with regard to software, record >fields, and logistics. One of the databases I am responsible for is APAIS - which is Australian social sciences and humanities. APAIS has been going since 1945, and exists as an online file for 1978+. Sandra Henderson Manager National Bibliographic Publications National Library of Australia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:48:52 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: sample pages I also send samples from two or three indexes. I usually send one page from each; I pick a page-long section of the index that includes several different kinds of entries, including at least one large heading with subheadings, and some cross-references. I don't like sending samples too much though, because I've had too many editors think that I'm going to do their index exactly the way I did the samples. For instance, I narrowly missed not getting hired by someone--they said, "Well, you seem to be a good indexer but we prefer run-in style." Can you believe it??? Since then, when sending samples I always emphasize in the cover letter that they follow the preferred styles of the publishers I did them for (I'm *much* more grammatical than that :0 ) and that I can provide indexes in *whatever* style they prefer. But unless they specifically request samples, I just send my resume, references and a list of recently completed indexes, tailored to the new client's subject areas. That mostly seems to work. Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 18:52:20 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: sample pages In-Reply-To: <9607260047.AA20361@mx3.u.washington.edu> To address the format question, I have one sample index (to a social sciences book, for those who think I only do health sciences) that I often send to new clients. The actual index was run-in (which I use only when the client specifies it), and as a sample I print out a couple of pages 2-column, single spaced. Then I print out the SAME pages in indented format. That way the client sees that I can deliver the format he/she prefers (and the difference between same if they don't know what I mean when I ask them!) and also that I can work outside my primary specialty. This is most useful when the client is the author or a small publisher who's not used to working with indexers. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Thu, 25 Jul 1996 DStaub11@AOL.COM wrote: > > I don't like sending samples too much though, because I've had too many > editors think that I'm going to do their index exactly the way I did the > samples. For instance, I narrowly missed not getting hired by someone--they > said, "Well, you seem to be a good indexer but we prefer run-in style." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 15:50:27 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Converted from OV/VM to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X From: NASEM020@SIVM.SI.EDU Subject: Re: Copywrite status of Abstracts? In-Reply-To: note of 07/25/96 12:01 I work as an indexer for a secondary publisher in the medical sciences, and whe n we reprint the abstracts in our print journal we need permission from certain publishers. This is becoming a stickier proposition as time goes by. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 00:41:09 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: quadriplegic indexer for real? I found the following in News of the Weird on the net, and thought folks might find it interesting. Sorry if it already came up last year ... Does anyone know any more about Mr. Spragens? Could this be a myth? --Helen Schinske * In March, the U. S. Supreme Court let stand a 1988 decision that Paul E. Spragens, a quadriplegic man who earns money typing with his toes, be kicked off the Social Security rolls and ordered to return almost $20,000 he had received over a three- year period. During that time, Spragens averaged $350 a month working as a free-lance book indexer; as soon as his earnings hit $300 a month, according to law, he was no longer eligible for benefits. [Rocky Mountain News-AP, 4-7-95] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 06:35:58 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sam Andrusko Subject: Re: quadriplegic indexer for real? In-Reply-To: <199607270440.AAA17465@rs8.loc.gov> Hello, everyone, Well, there is only one Paul Spragens (in Wyoming) listed in Switchboard (the white pages info on WWW), so assuming "Rocky Mt. News" covers Wyoming, that may well be him (ok: he ). It included an email address--anyone want to contact him?? Personally, cannot imagine how anyone could survive on $4200 a year, disabled or not, but if $300 a month is the law, well, that's the law. I assume he is also getting other govt. assistance too which would boost his overall income, technically speaking, I guess. Definitely a weird new item, though. Sam Andrusko ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 22:16:47 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: Tony Barry, What contribution can indexing make to the Internet? Australian Society of Indexers is proud to announce Tony Barry's lecture foils are available below: http://snazzy.anu.edu.au/CNASI/SU/indexers96/s1.html These outlines were used in his talk at the Indexing in the Electronic Age conference at Robertson, NSW and give a good insight into the breadth of the internet indexing task, giving the big picture. Recommended. This is paper #3 on our Site from our conference. More are in the pipeline. Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-4383729 (w) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 21:44:33 +0200 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: joy Subject: joy to you An invitation, not an excuse, or imposition. Collect the joy and give it. http://bellaria.asianet.it/chbell/JOY/PAGINA.htm You can take a book, for public use, will try to describe what joy is, and if you wish, you can describe it in your own words, so that you will help me to describe joy even better. If you can translate the text into another language, send it on paper or file. my sincere thanks:))) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:20:43 -0700 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: quadriplegic indexer for real? Paul Spragens is a very fine indexer, and has been so for years. He is a member of editcetera, the Berkeley-based book production guild, which he joined when he lived in Berkeley. His case is a horrible of example of idiotic bureaucratic indecency, and I don't believe it has ever been resolved in his favor. It would certainly be good for all of us to write our congressional representatives in his behalf. And he does not get other assistance--SSI is the aid to the disabled that he was cut from. Elinor Lindheimer