From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 6-JAN-1997 10:18:26.96 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9612B" Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:43:53 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9612B" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 00:24:13 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia L. Peterson" Subject: Re: AOL In-Reply-To: <9612072157.AA53297@medcat.library.swmed.edu> On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Richard T. Evans wrote: > Yes and no. On the surface, it sounds like a neat idea but I have not found > much benefit from it. Dragging a laptop around and setting it up to run > from a remote location can be more trouble than it's worth. I took my > ThinkPad to Denver for the ASI conference and there was no hookup in the room. Of course, many conferences are supplying areas for hookups and more and more hotels which cater to business people are supplying modem hookups (charging you for the call if out of town of course). > > Also, any mail you check from your remote computer ends up on the remote > hard disk and you have to somehow consolidate your files on your desktop > machine. There is a way around that if you have a program like Eudora. There is a place to indicate that you wish the mail to remain on the server (as opposed to your hard drive. That way, it is there on your regular machine -- even indicating if you have read it already or have sent a reply or forwarded. Other mail programs may be the same way. Cynthia Peterson, Assistant Manager Database Development & Control U.T. Southwestern Medical Center Library Voice:(214) 648-3906 5323 Harry Hines Blvd. FAX:(214) 648-3981 Dallas, Texas 75235-9049 peterson@medcat.library.swmed.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 04:33:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Business cards email addresses At 03:24 PM 12/7/96 -0500, Jennifer Rowe wrote: >...I do have 500 business cards with my AOL address to use up; Since I got my business cards, my email address has changed 3 times. I know it looks bad, but I just white out my address (I keep the same userid each time) and carefully print in the new address in black ink by hand. Since my address may be changing again soon for the fourth time, I am glad that I have not gotten new cards printed each time. I am sure that people in the know realize that due to the competitiveness of Internet services, email addresses aren't fixed in stone. >My question to you is, what's the best address for an indexer? You may want to check a local provider. I use a local provider and because of the constant competition and buy-outs, the addresses change. But in spite of this competitive shake-down that seems to be going on, I have had good, consistent, unlimited Internet-access service (including Web access) for $24.95 a month. The only thing I seem to not be able to do is send email to BITNET addresses. To send to INDEX-l, I make a nickname in Eudora using the binghamton.edu address and thus have no problems with sending to that address. Hope this helps. ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 12:23:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >I, too, want to see this list provide valuable discussion, not break down into >mere chat. Is it "mere" chat if a subject is discussed that is of such import to so many? Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 12:24:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Another publisher's opinion on fun with indexes >Rhonda wrote: >>>>No doubt some little indexing jokes stem from frustration with the decline >>>>of publishing standards -- you can hardly open any kind of book without >>>>finding errors... > >Larry Baker wrote: >>The above statement makes it sound like someone >>with hands on hips saying, "If you make a mistake, well then I'm going to >>make a mistake, too. Ha, ha. >and then: >>I made a strong comment against a statement with which I disagreed. >>But I also found out that a number of you agreed with her comment. > >I would not wish anyone to think that I agreed with the first point, which >was that indexing "jokes" would/should/do stem from frustration with a >decline in publishing standards. ... BUT, any such decline is certainly *not* >an excuse for adding to the chaos, contrary to the point originally made >(and the point to which Larry took exception). Again, it is my opinion that >a professional does not seek to make excuses for mediocrity, nor participate >in it, but roots it out wherever she or he may find it to the degree that >she or he is empowered to do so. > And further >stipulate that proofreading errors in printed books are no excuse for >indexers inserting what are dubiously being referred to as jokes? What was inferred from my remark is not what I meant, and not what I wrote. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 09:59:24 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? Some would define the conversation as the few dominating with irrelevant information sent in many messages. By percentage of those subscribed, but conversation as been by a minority. At 12:23 PM 12/8/96 -0500, you wrote: >>I, too, want to see this list provide valuable discussion, not break down into >>mere chat. > >Is it "mere" chat if a subject is discussed that is of such import to so many? > >Rhonda Keith >Only You Publications >Autobiography~Oral History Services > and >Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing >Boston > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 15:54:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: unavailable aol email Well, I guess there is some consolation knowing that others are having the same problem. I tried to get email this morning, before leaving for church, which meant that I was in sort of a rush. I made three ateempts, and each time was given an 800 number to call to find out what hte problem was. Upon dialing the 800 number, I got a message saying that the wait would be 15 minutes. The wait was actually 30 minutes--and I was then told that there were problems on the system due to both the change in pricing and other issues. It seems to me that if they are going to increase their customer-load, they also need to increase their staff to give existing customers better service. I also did send email today complaining about the situation, but apparently sent it to the wrong department at aol! BTW, I was talking about this experience at coffee hour after church today, and someone else told me they had trouble getting email last nite at midnight! Guess there is some consolation knowing that others are experiencing the same problem--I wish aol wuld pay more attention to customer service. At least the rest of my day has gone better :) Willa An addicted, frustrated aol user (but at least not alone in this feeling!) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 16:29:24 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? >Some would define the conversation as the few dominating with irrelevant >information sent in many messages. By percentage of those subscribed, but >conversation as been by a minority. I guess I wasn't thinking of numbers, but of the vehemence of the reactions to something that could as well have been ignored. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:38:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: word coinages Fred wrote: > >I would like to use: > >\iRecherche du temps perdu, A la\I (Proust) > achronologicality > >Is that too over the top, or should I just stick with: > >\iRecherche du temps perdu, A la\I (Proust) > [not chronological] or [lack of chronology] ????? > Is achronologicality in the dictionary?? If so, you could use it if you want, though it does sound a little out there to me. Does the text use high-falutin' words like that? If it's more down to earth, I wouldn't, but if that word matches the tone I think it would be okay. The other two choices aren't great either. I often run into this problem--needing a noun or noun phrase for a subhead for a concept that is expressed most easily (and only expressed in the text) as an adjective. The one that always gets me is "research has tended to ignore...." I want to say Concept, ignorance of, but of course that means something completely different! Good luck, Fred! Do Mi (off for four days; risking a full box but don't expect mail from me till Sunday!) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 13:40:29 -0500 Reply-To: riomaro@riofrancos.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Maro Riofrancos Organization: Riofrancos & Co. Indexes Subject: Re: Business cards email addresses This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------48BB31C3515C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jennifer Rowe wrote: > >...I do have 500 business cards with my AOL address to use up; > > Since I got my business cards, my email address has changed 3 times. One way to deal with this problem is to have an account with a Web site hosting company that offers a "virtual domain name" service. That way, regardless of your "real" email address, you can always maintain the same "virtual" email address. This is because you can at any time change your underlying real address. Your correspondents always send email to your web site, where it is automatically forwarded to your current email address. I found an excellent deal for a virtual domain name service with a company called Web Communications (http://www.webcom.com/), which charges $29.95 a month for maintaining your web site. There is an additional one-time charge of $100 for registering your domain name with InterNIC. -- Maro Riofrancos Riofrancos & Co. Indexes 290 Riverside Drive, # 9A New York, NY 10025-5233 voice: (212) 864-2121 fax: (212) 222-2921 http://www.riofrancos.com email: riomaro@riofrancos.com --------------48BB31C3515C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Base: "http://www.webcom.com/" WebCom - The Leading Web Site Host Service

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--------------48BB31C3515C-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:39:58 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: online services Given the recent frustrations with aol, I've decided to research other online services/providers (such as aol). Would you be kind enough to let me know what you use and why you chose it? I'll summarize if I get enough replies to this question. Thanks, in advance, for your response. :) Willa MacAllen WMacallen@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:55:56 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michele Johnson Subject: Re: online services At 06:39 AM 12/9/96 -0500, you wrote: >Given the recent frustrations with aol, I've decided to research other online >services/providers (such as aol). Would you be kind enough to let me know >what you use and why you chose it? I'll summarize if I get enough replies to >this question. > >Thanks, in advance, for your response. :) > >Willa MacAllen >WMacallen@aol.com > Willa- I use a local provider here in Jackson. I found the local providers to be more reliable than the commercial online services such as AOL. In fact AOL had a local number at one time in Jackson, and now they have gone to *no local number*, as many of the other ones have for our area. With my local provider, I got Eudora for e-mail, and Netscape for a browser. I don't get busy signals or trouble connecting, and I just find it much easier and more reliable than the other online services. And believe me, between hubby and myself, we have tried them all! :) Michele J. Johnson Jackson, Tennessee mdjcpa@usit.net Who wins the award for the most home pages? :) http://www.angelfire.com/tn/pdsmith/index3.html (The Information Consultants/Dyersburg, TN) http://www.angelfire.com/biz/InfoConsultant (The Information Consultants/Jackson, TN) http://www.angelfire.com/tn/mjohnson (Romance Writer) http://www.angelfire.com/biz/advicebird/ (Photo Diskettes) http://www.pagelist.com/mdj.html (Business, Tax & Marketing) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:16:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Helen Schinske Subject: Junk mail In a message dated 96-12-08 09:42:46 EST, Carolyn wrote: > I must admit, however, that I'm glad AOL is >not my PRIMARY email connection. It's irritating enough just getting rid >of the 10-15 junk mail messages that are waiting in my inbox every time I >log on. > >Carolyn Weaver I haven't had any true "junk mail" (as opposed to mail I didn't care about reading, like SLAJOB ads for jobs three thousand miles away) in months and months. Are AOL accounts supposed to be more subject to it? Helen HSchinske@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:29:49 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: online services Willa, I use TIAC, (The Internet Access Company) which is in the phone book in Bedford. Oh wait, here it is: TIAC: 1-617-276-7200 They cover all of New England, parts of NY and PA, and are expanding southward very rapidly. I chose them because they have a local login number, which no one else does on the Vineyard. They have several packages, the most common being $29.95/mo for up to 100 hours (that's about 3 hours a day) and includes 10MB of space for a web site. (This is plenty of space for most people. I've only used about 1.5 MB so far on mine and I have 2 large graphics, one animated.) I've had very little trouble with them, practically none, in fact. Very easy to set up the account, and they are available for tech support 24 hrs a day. I highly recommend them. You can use any browser or mail or search thingy, and have full internet access with no nonsense. I got disgusted with AOL a long time ago. I was one of the first subscribers to AOL and stuck with them for almost 9 years but could not longer take all the mishegas. I don't miss it one little bit. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:14:37 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: online services There are companies that will forward your e-mail; kind of like a virtual PO Box. From "Netscape Guide to Internet Research," Ventana Publishers: http://www.bigfoot.com "While most of the search details on Bigfoot are pretty standard, you should check it out if you tend to hop around a lot between Internet Service Providers, as Bigfoot gives you free forwarding for life with free registration onsite. (What they'll do is give you an e-mail address at bigfoot.com, and will forward any mail sent to your Bigfoot address toy our current Internet Service Provider. If you find yourself switching Internet Service Providers a lot, this comes in handy, as you can just give out your Bigfoot address and be assured that your e-mail will reach you no matter where you go.)" There are others; I just happened to come across this one. I do not use it, nor do I have any commercial connection with Bigfoot; any typos in the above quote are mine. To find a new ISP, one place to look is http://www.thelist.com where many are listed and compared. Again, no personal connection, blah, blah, blah. Asking (as someone did) for others' experiences is helpful too, and reading the applicable Usenet newsgroups (netcom.*, for example) can be eye-opening. Basically, everybody has trouble with an ISP at some point--there are no trouble-free providers. Good luck, Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:47:52 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pam Rider Subject: Re: Fun in indexes? It's just that material that can be ignored (I definitely agree with you) might best be carried on only by those interest (in other words, off-list). This is, I fear, an unrealistic hope. I suspect that we have all sent material that is absolutely clear to oneself and and is understood in a completely different manner by others. This is definitely a part of indexing and is something I try to solve when editing an index and all-too-often recognize too late in a published work. At 04:29 PM 12/8/96 -0500, you wrote: >>Some would define the conversation as the few dominating with irrelevant >>information sent in many messages. By percentage of those subscribed, but >>conversation as been by a minority. > >I guess I wasn't thinking of numbers, but of the vehemence of the reactions >to something that could as well have been ignored. > >Rhonda Keith >Only You Publications >Autobiography~Oral History Services > and >Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing >Boston > > Pam Rider Trying to walk cheerfully on the Earth prider@powergrid.electriciti.com prider@tsktsk.com http://www.electriciti.com:80/~prider/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:50:23 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kate McCain Subject: POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT The following has been distributed to several listservs. ****************** BRIEF DESCRIPTION: Editorial Publisher of Information Science Abstracts seeks part-time consultant (5 00 hours per year) with expertise in information science/technology/management print and electronic publishing and editing, particularly with abstracting and indexing related services, to serve as a Senior Technical Editor to maintain technical oversight of the quality of the publication, and make recommendations on its content and marketing strategy. Send resumes to: Dept. TJM, Plenum Press, 233 Spring St., New York, N.Y., 10013-1578. EOE. -------------------- INFORMATION SCIENCE ABSTRACTS (ISA) SENIOR TECHNICAL EDITOR Job Description Elements POSITION BACKGROUND ISA,(Information Science Abstracts), a leading database for professsionals in the field of library and information science, is owned by Documentation Abstracts, Inc. (DAI), a not-for-profit corporation sponsored by professional societies in the library and information sciences. DAI retains the ownership and copyright of ISA, but Plenum Publishing Corp. is responsible for operations and publication. DAI and Plenum have been working together to continually improve the quality of ISA and have determined that a Senior Technical Editor position should be created. POSITION OBJECTIVES AND RELATIONSHIPS The Senior Technical Editor will take responsibility and initiative to ensure the technical quality and professional acceptance of ISA and to oversee its publication. The team that shapes ISA consists of The Senior Technical Editor, The Editor, The ISA Marketing Director, The Publisher and The DAI Board. ISA should be responsive in scope and coverage, at minimum, to information researchers, educators, and practitioners in the sponsoring societies. The indexing should provide easy, full, and rational access to useful abstracts, consistent with the best professional standards. The Senior Technical Editor will work for Plenum. Policy input will be provided by the DAI Board. Operating decisions are made by Plenum. The Senior Technical Editor will be responsible to be a liaison between the Owner and The Publisher to ensure a successful, high quality publication. POSITION DUTIES Maintain technical oversight of the quality of the publication within the scope definition and policies set by the DAI Board including * specific scope and coverage of the field(s) * abstracting and indexing * front matter and supporting documentation. Set professional standards for the publication including the index and classification schemes. Ensure that high quality standards are met. Oversee the selection of materials for inclusion Maintain liaison between the DAI BOARD and the Publisher Provide assistance to the Publisher in market identification and penetration ISA Senior Tech Editor Job Qualifications Professional experience in print and/or electronic database publishing. Recognized expert in at least one of the mainfocus areas: information science, information technology, or information management Effective written and oral communication skills Publishing and editing experience, particularly with abstracting and indexing related services Experience with working in an environment that emphasizes consensus building and collegial cooperation LEVEL OF COMMITMENT The level of effort is expected to be approximately 500 hours per year. This effort level will not necessarily be linear throughout the year. The Senior Technical Editor will be expected to attend all DAI Board meetings and have frequent interaction with both the Board and the Plenum staff, with the base of operations, Plenum's corporate headquarters in New York City. Some travel will be required. Send Resumes to: Dept TJM, Plenum Press 233 Spring Street NY, NY 10013-1578 EOE ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:06:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Changing addresses and business cards Cynthia D. Bertelsen wrote: >>Since I got my business cards, my email address has changed 3 times. I know it looks bad, but I just white out my address (I keep the same userid each time) and carefully print in the new address in black ink by hand. Since my address may be changing again soon for the fourth time, I am glad that I have not gotten new cards printed each time. I am sure that people in the know realize that due to the competitiveness of Internet services, email addresses aren't fixed in stone.<< There are nice business card blanks (e.g. Office Depot) and software to create great cards on your pc these days. That is why I use custom cards these days until things settle out a bit. It does cost a bit more but it also makes a more professional statement. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:31:59 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: David Robert Austen Subject: Forwarded mail.... ------------------- David Robert Austen Masters Degree Program in Information Science Indiana University, Bloomington Indiana 47405 U.S.A. Telephone 812 335 8835 Fax 812 335 8598 -------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:29:00 -0500 (EST) From: David Robert Austen To: Cc: davidaus@hamlet.ucs.indiana.edu subscribe davidaus@indiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:53:19 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bob Huerster Subject: Re: Wired magazine Mary, Thanks a lot. Bob Huerster ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:53:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Bob Huerster Subject: Re: Wired magazine Cliff, Thanks a lot. Bob Huerster ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:54:14 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: locators for continuous discussion >discussions begins on bottom of page 1, and continues on top of page 3. Page >2 is a full-page illustration. > >topic, 1-3 > >or > >topic, 1, 3 > Fred, I do the second one, so the reader won't think there's 3 pages worth of stuff on "topic." Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:31:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: word coinages Okay, here's one I keep running into. Anybody have an idea (phrase) for an adjectival form of "integrity"? (Not "integral." Sigh.) Do Mi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:39:05 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Changing addresses and business cards Like William, I create my own business cards with my laser printer. I was prompted to do so last year when I got 500 new cards printed because my area code changed. In less than a month, I received notice that my zip code was changing. Over time, I think I save money by printing my own AND I'm not wasting all those cards. When I hand a card to someone, I usually get a positive remark, so I think the quality is o.k. Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 15:46:21 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michele Devine Subject: ASIS Handbook & Directory IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO PLACE YOUR BUSINESS CARD AD IN THE=20 "1997 American Society for Information Science Handbook & Directory" Consulting? Reach the most qualified prospects... Members, place a business card ad (2" x 3=BD") in the asis Handbook & Directory for only $100. (Non-members $150.00) The directory is mailed to 4,000 members and passed on to thousands more! =09 All orders and camera ready art are due by January 15th, 1997.=09 Placement is far forward. All ads are black & white. Mail your business card ad. to ASIS c/o =09 Michele Devine/Vanessa Foss=20 8720 Georgia Ave., S. 501 Silver Spring, MD 20910.=20 301 495-0900 FAX 301 495-0810 mdevine@asis.org =09 Michele Devine ASIS 301 495-0900 mdevine@asis.org http://www.asis.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 02:07:33 PST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Schwilk, Michael" Subject: more fun, can anyone stand? Hi everyone, I'm indexing a book on the construction of the NYC subway, aimed at junior/high school level. There's a lengthy recounting of the opening ceremony, during which the mayor insisted on playing motorman from city hall to 103rd St.(!) with nearly disastrous results. Dare I make the entry: McClellen, George B. joyride of Does the fact that the word "joyride" is used in the text justify the phrasing? I probably would have made this entry without thinking, had I not followed the recent conversation on this topic. Michael Schwilk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:40:11 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: word coinages In a message dated 96-12-09 16:01:30 EST, you write: << Okay, here's one I keep running into. Anybody have an idea (phrase) for an adjectival form of "integrity"? (Not "integral." Sigh.) >> Could we have a little more detail as to the context? Thanks Leslie LLF Editorial Services (it's easier to type) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:59:20 EDT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Baker/GRI/International Thomson Publishing Subject: Bigfoot I can vouch for Bigfoot's effectiveness. I just looked for an e-mail address for a college friend of mine who I knew worked at one of the Big Three at one time (but I wasn't sure he was still there). He has a unique enough name so I knew it would be him it Bigfoot had him listed. Sure enough @ford.com popped up. The other "yellow pages" type services under Excite One of the search engines with Netscape) have proved useful in tracking down addresses--geographic AND e-mail. Larry Baker Gale Research Larry_Baker@gale.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 19:14:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Re: online services I also use a local Boston-area provider called World. Not only can you get unlimited time for a very reasonable price (I think it's $25/month), but you can also choose to pay $2.00/hr., which is very inexpensive if you only use it to download e-mail with an e-mail program such as Eudora. I also have no trouble connecting. I once used tech support to find out why a message did not go through, and the technician looked up the recipient and found the correct email address for me, free of charge. Susan Susan Holbert "Indexing workshops and videos" 617-893-0514 susanh@world.std.com http://www.abbington.com/holbert ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 20:49:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Re: more fun, can anyone stand? Michael wrote: >>There's a lengthy recounting of the opening ceremony, during which the mayor insisted on playing motorman from city hall to 103rd St.(!) with nearly disastrous results. Dare I make the entry: McClellen, George B. joyride of << I would probably ammend to "motorman joyride of" which to me is more desriptive of the event since just joyride could mean many things. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:54:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: more fun, can anyone stand? Mike, Welcome to the group! Glad we got you out of "lurk" mode. I would prefer to use McClellen, George B as motorman, or as subway motorman, or motorman at dedication ceremony, I don't think I'd use the wording "joyride", even if it is in the text. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 23:43:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Integrity (adj.) Do Mi (and y'all), How about "of integrity," e.g., person of integrity.? That's the only thing I can thing of, other than "integrital," which, so far as I know doesn't exist. (But then I seem to be the one around here creating words.) Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services Chair, ASI-IS Committee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:36:23 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Changing addresses and business cards I used to print my own business cards, as others have mentioned, until I discovered that the laser toner rubs/flakes off when the card is handled. I get 500 cards (two colors) printed at Kinko's for about $30. Some people think that's rather a waste, because it takes so long to use 'em, but the very fact that I have so many cards makes me hand them out more freely than I used to when I was printing my own. In any case, if you're printing your own, I'd recommend that you "abuse" the card a bit and see how it holds up. What looks good at the time you hand it to someone might not look so good a few months later. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:48:22 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Integrity (adj.) I'm not clear on what your context is and in what position you need this adjectival, but is it possible to substitute a near-synonym like "honest" or "incorruptible"? If you must use a form of "integrity" and if it must come before a noun, then you might be stuck with some pretty clunky inventions: integrity-imbued integrity-having integrity-possessed integrity-burdened (ha ha) Ye-e-e-ch to all of those! I deserve a whack for those. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:51:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sam Andrusko Subject: Re: joyride In-Reply-To: <199612092118.QAA23264@rs8.loc.gov> Michael, Isn't "joyride" defined as stealing an automobile and riding around in it until either getting caught or the automobile has been wrecked or abandoned? Although the mayor may have comandeered the vehicle, I don't think that means he stole it. And depending on how many references there are to the mayor, why be so specific, esp. for a high school level book? Sam Andrusko On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Schwilk, Michael wrote: > Dare I make the entry: > > McClellen, George B. > joyride of > > Does the fact that the word "joyride" is used in the text justify the > phrasing? I probably would have made this entry without thinking, had > I not followed the recent conversation on this topic. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:01:28 -0500 Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Re: joyride Sam Andrusko wrote: > > Michael, > > Isn't "joyride" defined as stealing an automobile and riding around in it > until either getting caught or the automobile has been wrecked or > abandoned? Although the mayor may have comandeered the vehicle, I don't > think that means he stole it. From my online American Heritage.. joy ride n. Slang. 1. A ride taken for fun and often for the thrills provided by reckless driving. 2. A hazardous, reckless, often costly venture. --joy rider n. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:05:22 -0500 Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Re: Changing addresses and business cards Carol Roberts wrote: > I used to print my own business cards, as others have mentioned, until I discovered that the laser toner rubs/flakes off when the card is handled. Carol, There was either a problem with your printer, your toner or the paper used. I have never had laser toner rub off a card. Now ink jet printers have smearing problems but that is another story. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:18:00 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: Re: Changing addresses and business cards Carol wrote: >I used to print my own business cards, as others have mentioned, until I >discovered that the laser toner rubs/flakes off when the card is handled. I I spray mine with a fixative (comes in glossy or matte--and do it outside!!) and they no longer rub off. Spray the whole sheet before you break the cards apart. Get the stuff at an art supply store. Rachel Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:56:15 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: more fun, can anyone stand? Hi Mike, I think I would go with either "subway joyride" or "joyride" as subheads for now. Upon final edit, though, I would probably drop them, and pull up the page locators, unless there are so many subheads. You might be able to collate this entry with other subway- or mass-transit-related subheads, for example? Sounds like a fun indexing ride, ;-D Pilar Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com "What is indexing?" -----> http://www.well.com/user/asi/indfaq.htm "An index a day keeps the phone calls away ..., " Jan Wright, Wright Information Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:39:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: joyride I think that this has been a most interesting discussion. It points out the indexer's need to check dictionaries and other reference tools in cases like this (i.e., slang-type words or other words with more than one level of meaning). If there is the slightest doubt that a word's meaning could be misinterpreted or considered pejorative, even if the author uses it in a certain context, then it would be a good idea to do a little word research. Probably the most comprehensive dictionary of the English language is the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), but the Dictionary of American Slang and the Dictionary of American Regional English (DARE) are also helpful in cases like this. In this particular case, a thesaurus might also give an alternative choice that catches the gist of what probably was a Keystone Cops-like episode with a runaway subway car! Just imagining it makes me laugh! :-D At 08:01 AM 12/10/96 -0500, William Meisheid wrote: >Sam Andrusko wrote: >> >> Michael, >> >> Isn't "joyride" defined as stealing an automobile and riding around in it >> until either getting caught or the automobile has been wrecked or >> abandoned? Although the mayor may have comandeered the vehicle, I don't >> think that means he stole it. > >>From my online American Heritage.. > >joy ride n. Slang. 1. A ride taken for fun and often for the thrills >provided by reckless driving. 2. A hazardous, reckless, often costly >venture. --joy rider n. ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:03:14 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer Rowe Subject: Re: word coinages (integrity) The OED lists "integrous," meaning "marked by integrity," but admits that it is "obs. rare." Too bad. I like "integrity of" or "of integrity" if "honest" won't do. Jenny Rowe Rowe Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:10:46 -0800 Reply-To: wykoffc@proaxis.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: carla wykoff Subject: How do I subscribe? Hello, I am Carla Wykoff a graduate student in Library Science with Emporia State University's cohort in Oregon. I ran across this listserv on ASIS posting and am hoping to further my learnings in indexing and abstracting by subscribing. Can someone help? Thanks, Carla ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:19:20 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gil Osgood Subject: Re: word coinages (integrity) >The OED lists "integrous," meaning "marked by integrity," but admits that it >is "obs. rare." Too bad. I like "integrity of" or "of integrity" if >"honest" won't do. > >Jenny Rowe >Rowe Indexing Services This seems very strange to me as I use the word "integrous" in conversation as do other people I know. Gil Osgood | email: osgood@oregon.uoregon.edu System Software Analyst | fax: (541) 346 4911 Department of Psychology | phone: (541) 346 4956 1227 University of Oregon Eugene, OR 97403-1227 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:17:20 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jennifer Rowe Subject: Re: AOL (thanks + chat) Thanks to all who sent along their comments on ISPs, both on- and off-list. I think I'll suffer along with AOL and their excessive exclamation points for now, especially since I may be moving in several months. The business card discussion has been interesting too. Now, what clever uses are there for all those outdated cards? Might they be donated to indexers who use slips of paper to index? Even in an old house, a person only needs so many wedges under pieces of furniture. Jenny Rowe Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:42:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Evans" Subject: Re: AOL (thanks + chat) At 11:17 AM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote: >The business card discussion has been interesting too. Now, what clever uses >are there for all those outdated cards? Might they be donated to indexers >who use slips of paper to index? Even in an old house, a person only needs >so many wedges under pieces of furniture. I've been known to donate things like old stationery, business cards, pens, pencils, markers, paper clips, etc. to a local day-care center. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:50:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Carolyn G. Weaver" Subject: Re: AOL (thanks + chat) In-Reply-To: <199612101646.IAA21880@mx4.u.washington.edu> They make GREAT book marks! Carolyn Weaver On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, Jennifer Rowe wrote: > Thanks to all who sent along their comments on ISPs, both on- and off-list. > I think I'll suffer along with AOL and their excessive exclamation points > for now, especially since I may be moving in several months. > > The business card discussion has been interesting too. Now, what clever uses > are there for all those outdated cards? Might they be donated to indexers > who use slips of paper to index? Even in an old house, a person only needs > so many wedges under pieces of furniture. > > Jenny > Rowe Indexing Services > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:05:30 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Nan Badgett <76400.3351@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: AOL (thanks + chat) > > Now, what clever uses are there for all those outdated cards? >> I give mine to a friend whose husband uses them for his check ledger. I'm not sure about his bookkeeping methods. . . Nan Badgett dba Word-a-bil-i-ty ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 12:14:45 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Victoria Baker Subject: Re: more fun, can anyone stand? I like the joyride part--I'd use "motorman joyride of" or some such, to make explicit. I would use that word for several reasons. The event is depicted using the term joyride in the text and the historical results justify the term. Also, this is a book for teens. I believe that it is important to choose terms in children's texts that will stimulate them to look at the text. If they happen to look through the index (it does happen), or are looking for something else and this entry catches their eye, they have entry to the text in a new way. I think the author is using the term "joyride" because there is a message in the historical event that is of use to teens and the term makes it explicit. Indexing texts in language useful to an audience of teens/children helps explicate the value of reading, among other reasons for doing so. I do think these pedogogical concerns are appropriate to el-hi texts. Of course, drawing the lines and making good decisions are of the utmost importance, and erring on the conservative side with this is preferable. Best, Victoria Baker ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:48:27 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex@AOL.COM Subject: Re: unavailable mail/AOL & more In a message dated 96-12-07 18:21:05 EST, Lynn Moncrief wrote, in response to Leslie's posting: A few times I've had problems opening mail. [snip] So, a possible solution would be to go online (not just a flash session), open your Mail menu, and select "Check Mail You've Read". AOL'ers who aren't using Flashmail: Shame, shame . Discover Flashmail (it's on the Mail menu) and set it up so that ALL mail is collected there (MAIL options under Member Preferences). Use it EVERYTIME you log onto AOL (read/write mail off-line) and two things will result: Your AOL connect time will be less and you will automatically have an archival copy of all e-mail. Only once since I begin using Flashsessions I have to go retrieve a piece of mail and that was because I was having mail collected while working on something else and I accidentally disconnected the phone cord from the wall socket during the download of an attachment. Despite the enormous (in my estimation, 300 to 400 messages per week constitutes enormous) volume of e-mail I get on a daily basis, I rarely spend five billable minutes on line per day, including dropping by the Indexing folder at least once per day to see/post messages there (something which can only be done online -- unlike e-mail operations). This despite the fact that most days see me collecting/sending mail at least three times. I also control my AOL connect time by not signing on during the frantically busy hours (5pm to 8pm, Pacific time or between 9am & 11am on Mondays) when Flashsessions are not able to operate at their normal speed. For the the bare minimum rate ($4.95 per month) will suffice quite handily and the annual savings is great. Though I am keeping, at least for now, my CompuServe account -- it is still the best source of manufacturer tech support and for downloadable files -- I haven't logged on there in at least a month (I know that as soon as I cancel it, I'll be at a client site and need a file I don't have but which is available from CIS.). On the matter of junk mail, I find that I have greatly reduce the amount of such stuffing the "mail box" by forwarding copies of each one I get to the AOL address: TOSEMAIL1 (or TOSEMAIL2). AOL has made great inroads at helping me stop the unsolicited junk mail. The very nature of e-mail makes these solicitations extremely easy for nearly everyone to do so I like the gatekeeping service I am getting from AOL. (I am also careful when I go out on the 'net to select options which allow me to tell the page owner I don't want to be added to any e-mail lists.) Gale Rhoades ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:50:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AOL (thanks + chat) I << Now, what clever uses are there for all those outdated cards? >> You can always recycle them, along with the page proofs, rough drafts, non-glossy junk mail and catalogs, and newspapers. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:36:19 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: uses for old cards >I ><< Now, what clever uses are there for all those outdated cards? >> > Soak them in water and put them in a blender, add some abaca (get it at the same place you got the spray fixative), and some things like seeds and herbs, or food coloring, etc., and make paper sculptures, or spread them really thin on a screen that's stretched on a frame, and make handmade paper. Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:27:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: more fun, can anyone stand? >I would prefer to use > >McClellen, George B > as motorman, >or as subway motorman, >or motorman at dedication ceremony, > >I don't think I'd use the wording "joyride", even if it is in the text. > >Janet Perlman >Southwest Indexing > In the interests of strict accuracy, let us remember that McClellen was not truly a motorman, but he was a joyrider. Or does one become a motorman by impersonating one? This is an existential question. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:34:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: word coinages > Okay, here's one I keep running into. Anybody have an idea (phrase) for an > adjectival form of "integrity"? (Not "integral." Sigh.) > >> "Very like an integer"? "Integrated"? Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:32:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Re: Integrity (adj.) >I'm not clear on what your context is and in what position you need this >adjectival, but is it possible to substitute a near-synonym like "honest" >or "incorruptible"? If you must use a form of "integrity" and if it must >come before a noun, then you might be stuck with some pretty clunky >inventions: > >integrity-imbued >integrity-having >integrity-possessed >integrity-burdened (ha ha) I heard someone use the word "integral" once, as in "He is an integral person." I don't know if she meant he was honest, or had an integrated personality, or just generally had integrity. Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:43:10 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: online providers Replies have been coming in to my recent question on online providers. (As usual, I always learn a lot from them!) Unfortunately, the past two weeks have been very hectic as the result of packing, moving and unpacking a small, corporate library from Cambridge, Mass to Burlington, Mass! I'll post the responses in a day or so (once I catch my breath!) Thanks again. Willa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 10:33:58 GMT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Wright-ARCHIVES Subject: BBC IRL and web indexing This is NOT an advert, but most of our BBC department's progress in on-line information (and the indexing thereof; there is an indexing connection here) has been internal, on an 'intranet'. The BBC is not commercial -- viewers pay an annual fee -- but it has commercial activities, and one is now 'public' on the proper intranet. So - our information research library (IRL) now advertises its wares on the public internet at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/infoarch/index.htm In putting the pages together, we discovered 1) there was (were?) no metadata on our IRL pages 2) also none on 700-odd pages covering a range of BBC services - studios, crews, outside broadcast units, ... 3) and none on our general BBC external pages, possible several thousand in all The indexing issue is that there is provision in the definition of HTML (Hypertext Markup Language: if you haven't encountered this, the rest of this email is likely to be irrelevant to your interests) for explicit metadata, part of the header format of a web page, and including types within metadata specificaly for keywords and for more discursive entries called 'content'. We aren't sure how formal we want to be about our use of this potential, and so far are NOT using our own BBC-customised hierarchical classifier based on UDC (the mainly European alternative to Dewey), or even a thesaurus or controlled list of keywords. But now that we've identified the problem, we will be able to sort out a formal approach to this form of 'top of the page' indexing. [We used 'top of the head' keywords for our few pages of 'top of the page' indexing.] Anyone viewing our pages with a standard web-browser can usually find an option to view the HTML in its raw form, and so see our metadata -- and the lack of it in the rest of the BBC pages. The real point of all this re info on the web is that pages put up on the web can be pre-indexed, using the metadata field. Standard web search engines rely on free-text search, but providing they look at the metadata, a link is formed between free-text searching and controlled-term indexing -- the uncontrolled searching finds the controlled metadata. If (big if) the person doing the search uses a term which is in the metadata field, a 'hit' is made, an item will be found and the vagaries and uncertainties of free-text based retrieval will to some extent be circumvented, or at least augmented. The next step is to help the person to find the right search term: this implies use of a standard for keywords (LOC subject headings? better alternatives?) and more importantly a mechanism within the web browser to navigate a proper thesaurus. So my current soapbox is to lobby for web browsers which support thesaural-based retrieval -- to allow controlled searching of controlled data in the metadata. The only problem is, basically, metadata is hardly used in web pages, which is where this email started. Whatever the pains and strains of back-of-the-book indexing that I read about in this maillist, at least a book index is pretty well defined and pretty well known. Web page producers don't even know what they're not doing. Thank you for your patience. Regards, Richard Richard Wright - Information Systems Engineer BBC Information & Archives Email: richard.wright@bbc.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:10:19 -0500 Reply-To: wgm@sageline.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: William Meisheid Organization: Sageline Publishing Subject: Re: BBC IRL and web indexing (long) Richard Wright-ARCHIVES wrote: >>So my current soapbox is to lobby for web browsers which support thesaural-based retrieval -- to allow controlled searching of controlled data in the metadata. The only problem is, basically, metadata is hardly used in web pages, which is where this email started. Whatever the pains and strains of back-of-the-book indexing that I read about in this maillist, at least a book index is pretty well defined and pretty well known. Web page producers don't even know what they're not doing. Thank you for your patience. << Richard, There are two things that I think will begin to impact this concern. One is HTML Help from Microsoft. Windows Help has always used head of the topic/page keyword indexing and WinHelp has always had a rudamentary index. WinHelp 4.0 from Windows 95 even had a two level index rather than the single keyword listing of WinHelp 3.0+. Now now that Microsoft is moving the WinHelp community to HTML with its new environment, they are encorporating the same functionality. HTML Help will have a true multilevel, back-of-the-book style index to all the web pages in a project using index keyword metadata. You can get the beta and addtional information at the HTML Help web site at: http://www.microsoft.com/workshop/author/htmlhelp/ The second thing is that since WinHelp authors have been doing keyword indexing from day one (admittingly, some of it pretty bad), they will be making additional efforts in HTML Help. You have a whole community of authors coming into HTML with a keyword indexing mindset. I will be making one presentation and one half day seminar on WinHelp/HTML Help indexing at the 1997 Spring HTML and WinHelp Developers Conference in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. There is more information at: http://www.helpuniversity.com/seminr02.htm I know at least one of the members of this list who does WinHelp keyword indexing at Microsoft, Jan Wright (JanCW@AOL.COM), and she has had input to Ralph Walden, the lead programmer (ralphw@microsoft.com), about things she would like to see in the HTML Help indexing functionality. This is independent of the metadata tag in an HTML header, usually only used by search engines, as you noted, but in my opinion, HTML Help is going to change a lot of things, both on intranet and internet sites. It is supposed to be *the* delivery mechanism for online information from Microsoft's perspective. By way of example they are supposedly moving Encarta to the platform. If you would like to get involved in this, download the demo and join us on compuserve (Go HYPERTEXT). Someone in the BBC should have an account. -- William Meisheid "Thoughts still and always in progress" Certified RoboHELP Training WUGNET/Hypertext Technologies sysop on Compuserve Sageline Publishing www.sageline.com wgm@sageline.com 410.465.1548 Fax: 410.744.2456 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:34:00 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Doris Schlichter Subject: Subscribe Index-List Subscribe Index-list Doris_Schlichter@merck.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:42:02 -0800 Reply-To: wykoffc@proaxis.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: carla wykoff Subject: Thanks Thanks to ALL of you who responded to my message about subscribing to this list. I am now happily subscribed and looking forward to interacting with you in the future, Carla Wykoff in Oregon. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:52:20 -0400 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: versus I have it in my head that "versus" and "vs." should be italicized, but I don't know why I think so, and I don't know why it should be, if it really should be, that is. I can't find it in any of my indexing reference books. I have an editor asking me why I italicized it, and as I couldn't answer, we decided not to. But I want to know! It's not a legal book, just a plain old versus: motorhomes versus trailers. Can anyone shed any light? Also can someone please send me the listserv address which I lost in a recent system folder mishap. I want to change it so I see my own messages. (egomania vs. narcissism.) Thanks! RR Rachel Rice Directions Unlimited Desktop Services Chilmark, Mass. rachelr@tiac.net; http://www.tiac.net/users/rachelr/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:32:53 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Edith Ericson Subject: Re: versus In-Reply-To: <199612111752.MAA02081@bosnia.pop.psu.edu> from "Rachel Rice" at Dec 11, 96 12:52:20 pm Rachel Rice said: > >I have it in my head that "versus" and "vs." should be italicized, but I >don't know why I think so, and I don't know why it should be, if it really >should be, that is. I can't find it in any of my indexing reference books. >I have an editor asking me why I italicized it, and as I couldn't answer, >we decided not to. But I want to know! It's not a legal book, just a plain >old versus: motorhomes versus trailers. > >Can anyone shed any light? Rachel, I looked up versus in the Chicago Manual of Style and it says that in legal cases v. (versus) can be roman or itslic, provided the use is consistent (7.72 in the 14th edition). Also, in sction 6.65, "Isolated words and phrases in a foreign language may be set in italics if they are likely to be unfamiliar to readers". I remember seeing nonlegal uses of versus set in italics, too. Maybe it used to be treated as an unfamiliar foreign word. Edith Ericson ericson@pop.psu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:35:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: versus The Chicago Manual of Style has discussions of versus (in italics) in regard to legal cases. Section 7.72 says that versus or v. "may be roman or italic, provided that use is consistent." Other than that, I also could find no other information in the books that I have on hand. (Just a thought with no substantive evidence at this point: I wonder if perhaps the convention is not rooted in the fact that the word is Latin and, as Wellisch states on pgs. 256-57 of Indexing from A to Z, some of the words in old indexes are abbreviations of Latin terms...there may be a similar relationship in the use of versus in italics?) At 12:52 PM 12/11/96 -0400, Rachel Rice wrote: >I have it in my head that "versus" and "vs." should be italicized, but I >don't know why I think so, and I don't know why it should be, if it really >should be, that is. I can't find it in any of my indexing reference books. >I have an editor asking me why I italicized it, and as I couldn't answer, >we decided not to. But I want to know! It's not a legal book, just a plain >old versus: motorhomes versus trailers. ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:19:29 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Brackney Subject: Re: versus At 12:52 PM 12/11/96 -0400, Rachel Rice wrote: >I have it in my head that "versus" and "vs." should be italicized, but I >don't know why I think so, and I don't know why it should be, if it really >should be, that is. I can't find it in any of my indexing reference books. >I have an editor asking me why I italicized it, and as I couldn't answer, >we decided not to. But I want to know! It's not a legal book, just a plain >old versus: motorhomes versus trailers. > >Can anyone shed any light? Rachel: I imagine you think "versus" ("vs.") should be italicized simply because it's Latin (or because you've often seen _v._ in court case titles), but it's also an honest-to- goodness word in English. I use "vs." quite a bit in some indexes (I reserve "v." for court cases) and I'm wondering whether others prefer the abbreviated form too. I prefer it because I choose not to sort on the term in either form when it occurs as the leading word in a subheading- just like any other leading function word--and the shorter form is simpler and less intrusive. Any other views on this? Michael Brackney Indexing Service 134 Kathleen Way Grass Valley, CA 95945 916-272-7088 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 19:48:13 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah H Lemaire Subject: Copyediting errors found while indexing I know that a lot of you are, like me, copyeditors as well as indexers. For the last few months, I've indexed several books for a publisher and copyedited two books. On each of the indexing jobs, I wrote up at least two pages of editing errors that I found in the manuscript. I don't mark things that are just my opinion, but actual errors that should have been caught by the copyeditor. Some of the errors impact the index, for example, is it "end around carry" or "end-around carry" when both are used in the text? Most of the errors I find are like this - inconsistencies. Sometimes even in a single sentence!! I usually point out the error to the production editor and indicate the way I indexed it. The production editor I work for is not very communicative. I've never gotten any feedback from her but she keeps hiring me so I assume that she's happy with my work. I thought she might really appreciate my finding these errors but she hasn't said much at all. Maybe they're more of a nuisance to her? After the first two books, I thought possibly that these books weren't being copyedited but she assured me that they were. I'd be a bit embarrassed if someone found this many errors in a book that I'd copyedited!! I guess my questions are: Do you report copyediting errors that you find to the production editor? Do they seem to appreciate it? How do you handle indexing a book that has many copyediting errors? More specifically, how do you document these errors? Thanks, Sarah ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Cynthia D. Bertelsen" Subject: Re: Copyediting errors found while indexing I, too, find outright errors in many of the books that I index (I do not do copyediting); I mark them as "error?" in red in the margins as I go through the proofs (i.e., when I find such things as incorrect names, lack of italics, obvious misspellings, etc.). Then as I index, I will find other things that map out to be two entries instead of one (like sky-bearers and sky bearers, where the hyphen is missing). More serious are the inconsistencies in name spellings. If something is really a problem, I will email or even call the editor ASAP; otherwise, I send in the list of errors at the same time that I send in the final index. In this list, I indicate page #, line #, and the problem, and my idea of what might be/is correct (i.e., how I indexed it). I research names, for example, and have sent in documentation/citations to that effect for the editor, so that he/she knows that I did not pull the idea/correct form of the name out of thin air. I have had both authors and editors thank me for this; in other cases, like you, I wonder if I didn't waste my time. Although this effort may not always be commented on to me, I can't help but feel that, for the most part, the editors for whom I work know that I care about the overall quality of the book. Even though it is really not our job as indexers to do this sort of proofreading, we are probably the only people who REALLY read the book before it is published. As far as the book is concerned, we are tabula rasa, because we are coming at the book as readers do--with a clean slate, never having seen it before, and not knowing what it is SUPPOSED to say. We see WHAT it says, because we are not as close to it as the people at the press are or the author is. Hope this helps. At 07:48 PM 12/11/96 -0500, Sarah H Lemaire wrote: >I guess my questions are: Do you report copyediting errors that you find >to the production editor? Do they seem to appreciate it? How do you >handle indexing a book that has many copyediting errors? More >specifically, how do you document these errors? > >Thanks, > >Sarah > > ************ Cynthia D. Bertelsen INDEXER Blacksburg, VA cbertel@nrv.net http://www.vt.edu:10021/B/bertel/ndx.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:38:25 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rhonda Keith Subject: Queries Does anyone have directions for subscribing to the copy editing listserve? Also, I received a message that a note from me had not been delivered to this address: 368734@cix.compulink.co.uk However, I don't believe I sent anything there -- it doesn't look at all familiar. I did send another note to someone else on this list in the UK, though. Any connection? Rhonda Keith Only You Publications Autobiography~Oral History Services and Writing, Editing, Desktop Publishing Boston ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 00:53:29 +1000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: Winner of AusSI Web Indexing Prize I have great pleasure in announcing the winner of the inaugural Web Indexing Prize: 1st Place: Alan Wilson (Alan.Wilson@aph.gov.au), Webmaster, Parliamentary Library http://www.aph.gov.au/library/parlindx.html 2nd Place: Graham Greenleaf (graham@austlii.edu.au or g.greenleaf@unsw.edu.au) Associate Professor, Faculty of Law, Co-Director, Australasian Legal Information Institute (AustLII), University of New South Wales, Sydney 2052 Australia, 'AustLII's Legal Links - Australia' (http://www.austlii.edu.au/links/Australia/) by Geoff King, Graham Greenleaf and Andrew Mowbray. Equal 3rd Places: JEFFERY TELK HOCK LEE (s-jthlee@melvin.silas.unsw.edu.au) Postgraduate Student, School of Information, Library and Archive Studies, University of New South Wales, Australia East Asian Newspapers - http://melvin.silas.unsw.edu.au/~s-jthlee/asia.htm Nancy Anderman Guenther (nanguent@chesco.com) http://www.chesco.com/~nanguent/ The winner will be offered a year's free membership of AusSI or a copy of 'Indexers Partners in Publishing' Proceedings from the First International Conference March/April 1995, Marysville, Vic. A full list of entrants is to be found on the AusSI Web site at URL http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/auswebpr.html. As you will see the entries were of a high standard and it often came down to a road test of the sites to choose between them. It staggered me how many views on a Web index there were: 1) back of book style - linear 2) YAHOO style with search engines and evaluation boxes - hierarchical 3) annotated Web bibliographies 4) annotated bibliographies on the Web (no links) 5) clever little frame versions with alpha jump tables and fuller indexes 6) beautiful wallpapered versions which gave the illusion of being on a main site but actually you were darting all over the Web 7) Site indexes 8) electronic book table of contents 9) meta-indexes of other sites' indexes The proof overall was the ease of use of the index under a novice user (me) which showed up the workmanship and design of the index. As well the content of the index and breadth of the coverage gave me a feel for its usefulness at getting information that could answer questions. Good work. Luckily the Web is a very easy medium to edit and improve without great expense. Why not learn from the other's styles? BTW there were a third of the entrants just below 3rd place who did quite well. All the best for next year. Cheers Dwight ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster and Editor Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-93986726 (h) +61-2-94393750 (w) W-F, fax +61-2-94383729 (w), fax +61-2-96623037 (h) URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 14:58:34 -0800 Reply-To: maddox@iafrica.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sarah and Peter Maddox Subject: Page-nos unknown - help I have been asked to do the index for a fact-filled book on running a business, and the laws that affect businesses. The book is long (about 550 pages), published annually. Until now, the index has been done at the last minute, using Pagemaker. The editor would like to try another approach, perhaps giving me batches of pages at intervals throughout the year. She envisages a dense index, of 50-60 pages, 3 columns per page. She estimates a hit-rate of 30 entries per page (!) The problem is: the page-numbers are not known until the last moment. (The last three weeks, usually.) Does anyone have experience with creating unnumbered index entries first, then adding the page-numbers later? I plan to use Macrex, giving incremental =93page numbers=94, then converting them to proper ones later. Specifically: - How long does it take to add the page-numbers? The editor would like to have the index a day after giving me the page-numbered proofs. Is this realistic? - Have you experienced any problems using this method, or do you have any tips? I may end up having to embed the index into Pagemaker. So would it be quicker to do it all in Pagemaker, leaving Macrex out of it? Can anyone give me a quick rundown on using Pagemaker for indexing? I have used the indexing facilities in MS Word 6.0. Is Pagemaker similar? Specifically: do you have to generate the index each time, to see how it looks or to refresh your memory about which headings you have used? This has turned into rather a long post - sorry about that. I would be very grateful for any advice. = Thanx! Sarah Maddox ____________________________________________________________ http://mickey.iafrica.com/~maddox/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:46:32 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Copyediting errors found while indexing I flag all typos on the pages, with "should be" the correct spelling, punctuation or whatever, and question marks if I'm not sure. I don't have any compunction about flagging anything that looks wrong to me, including grammatical errors and sentence structure--I figure that they can ignore my comments if they want to. As Cynthia says, I'm the first outside reader the finished book gets. I've often been thanked for doing this, more usually I don't hear anything, but I think it's part of my professionalism, trying to make the book as good as possible. So even if they don't comment directly, I think they appreciate it. In my letter I say, "I found typos on the following pages (enclosed): and a list of page numbers. (If I'm returning the page proofs, it says "I found and marked typos on the following pages.) Returning the actual pages is much easier for me than recording line numbers, and easier for the editor to see what the error is. When I find inconsistencies (usually in spelling, capitalization or hyphenation of proper names or terms), and I'm sure that the two forms are really the same thing, I index them together under one of the forms. In my letter to the editor I have a section that looks like this: Inconsistencies, indexed in first listed form: Sky-bearers (pp. 7, 14, 21) vs. sky bearers (p. 82) If I'm not completely sure that the two entries should be the same, I leave them separate and query them. ("Are National Committee for Indexing (NCI) and National Council for Indexing (NCI) the same? Indexed separately.") (In this imaginary case, the two would have been discussed in the text in such a way that I suspect they're the same and one form is an error. Of course, I often find real organizations with names this similar.) Hope this helps. Do Mi Stauber ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 10:26:58 -0600 Reply-To: inewby@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Ilana M. Newby" Subject: Dictionary Entries A publisher has asked me if I would like to help write definitions for a computer dictionary. Have any of you worked on similar projects, and if so, what is the pay rate? Per entry or page-- and how much? Ilana Kingsley Kingsley Information Services 812-299-0093 libkings@cml.indstate.edu inewby@prairienet.org http://www.prairienet.org/~inewby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 11:30:04 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Page-nos unknown - WAY LONG In a message dated 96-12-12 09:22:54 EST, you write: > The problem is: the page-numbers are not known until the last moment. > (The last three weeks, usually.) Does anyone have experience with > creating unnumbered index entries first, then adding the page-numbers > later? I plan to use Macrex, giving incremental =93page numbers=94, then > converting them to proper ones later. Specifically: It's easy to number the pages you get using a dummy number (ch5-10, ch5-11, etc). But and this is a big one -- Make sure if you are going to do this, that the client maintains their page breaks! Often, people working in PageMaker do not worry about where their pages are breaking, and allow text to flow willy-nilly from one page to the next. If their page breaks change, it will take a long time to translate your dummy numbers into real ones. > - How long does it take to add the page-numbers? The editor would like > to have the index a day after giving me the page-numbered proofs. Is > this realistic? It's easy if their page breaks have not changed, impossible and long and involved if you have to go through page-by-page and see where the final text has floated to. > - Have you experienced any problems using this method, or do you have > any tips? > I do this all the time, and it really is no problem if the client understands about setting and maintaining the breaks. > I may end up having to embed the index into Pagemaker. So would it be > quicker to do it all in Pagemaker, leaving Macrex out of it? Can anyone > give me a quick rundown on using Pagemaker for indexing? I have used the > indexing facilities in MS Word 6.0. Is Pagemaker similar? Specifically: > do you have to generate the index each time, to see how it looks or to > refresh your memory about which headings you have used? > It will NOT be quicker to do it in PageMaker. I would suggest, that if you have to embed the whole index into PageMaker, that you build the entire index in macrex, then edit, then output it into a file in page number order. Then you can sit down and start embedding it in PageMaker, knowing you have already edited. The client needs to know it will take you 5-6 days to do the embedding alone. Often clients will say "I'll send you a file, and then you index it, and then send it back to me," and assume that you will never need to see it again. They don't realize that you cannot do a final index without seeing all the files at once, and editing them all at once. Once you explain this to them, and tell them you will need to have ALL the files for 5-6 days (at the end of their publishing cycle) they will throw their hands up and say "No way. We can't do that - we need to be proofing." PageMaker has sorting controls for its indexing, and there is also a way to output your macrex file (without the page numbers) and import the headings and subheadings into the files so that you can just link up to them as you go through the pages (much less typing involved). But it involves access to a Mac with Word 5 (Mac Word 6 won't do it and neither will PC win word). Let me know if you want that exact process. If you wind up embedding your index into PageMaker, keep in mind that there are several ways to tell PM how you want ranges to be setup. Familiarize yourself with those options before you begin so that you can make it easier to do the embedding later. You can have it range until the next style change, the next specific style, for the next n paragraphs (carriage returns) or for the current page. Also experiment with the Cross-reference feature. It will look circular, as you cycle through dialog boxes, and won't make sense until you play with it for a while. PageMaker is maintaining a thesaurus of your terms, and you can choose to use these terms as your seen reference. Hope this all helps.... Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:03:13 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Subject: Re: Page-nos unknown - help At 02:58 PM 12/12/96 -0800, Sarah and Peter Maddox wrote: >- How long does it take to add the page-numbers? The editor would like >to have the index a day after giving me the page-numbered proofs. Is >this realistic? >- Have you experienced any problems using this method, or do you have >any tips? I've done this, and while it's tedious, most of the hard work is done FOR you by Macrex. Read that chapter in the manual carefully and experiment first to see how it works for you. In particular, experiment with adjusting the fake page numbers so that you have enough space in between them to accommodate the real page numbers when they arrive. And no, a one-day turnaround would be unrealistic for ANY book, and particularly unreal for something this dense and heavily indexed. If you had no other projects going, no family responsibilities, and so on, you might be able to edit, check, repage, and so on in four or five days (given the density of the expected index). But overnight? No way. If the page numbers will be known three weeks beforehand, get them as soon as possible Good luck! =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 13:07:23 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: online provider results Now that the library is unpacked, I can get caught up on other things. Responses re various online providers: 1) Three responders recommended using local providers 2) Several use Compuserve (some use Compuserve in addition to another service) 3) One uses AT&T 4) One uses Prodigy 5) One uses TIAC (The Information Access Company) 6) One uses aol because of Macrex folder (in addition to Compuserve) It sounds like several aol users use it just for its various subject folders and keep their rate at the lowest rate possible. Using local providers received the highest number of recommendations. Hope I reported this accurately. Thanks again for responding to my query. As usual, I always learn a lot from this list. Willa MacAllen WMacallen@aol.com (And I thought technology was supposed to make life easier!) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:03:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Page-nos unknown - WAY LONG In a message dated 96-12-12 11:44:15 EST, Jan wrote: > > Often clients will say "I'll send you a file, and then you index it, and > then > send it back to me," and assume that you will never need to see it again. > They don't realize that you cannot do a final index without seeing all the > files at once, and editing them all at once. Once you explain this to them, > and tell them you will need to have ALL the files for 5-6 days (at the end > of > their publishing cycle) they will throw their hands up and say "No way. We > can't do that - we need to be proofing." > Sarah, There is a hideous, absolutely nightmarish way of finishing an index under these circumstances that I definitely don't recommend for the fainthearted or for anyone valuing their sanity. I'm only offering it if it comes down to not getting the project at all. (After being forced to do this once, I said "Never again!", so did the client, and we moved on to better project management techniques.) In fact, this may help you to persuade the client to change their mind about not letting you have all of the files for editing once they hear about all of the work that will have to be done on their end. ;-D This process is based on the possibility that, in PageMaker (as in MS Word), you must manually open each document to make edits to the tags it contains. OTOH, if PageMaker is like FrameMaker where the index can be generated with hypertext links enabling each relevant document and tag to be opened by simply clicking on the page number involved for editing, the process can be abbreviated as necessary. After embedding in the last batch of files, generate the entire index. (You should still have copies of all of the files, despite having sent them off to the client. But do this before sending off the last batch of files if at all possible.) Mark this master index with all of your edits. Generate "subindexes" from each chapter file. Compare each of these "subindexes" to the master index, marking edits to be made in the individual files. Be sure to keep these marked up copies (which will reflect the state that the files were in when you sent them off to the client). Make the corrections in the individual files as necessary. The client won't actually receive these corrected files (as you've already sent them out in batches and may already be typeset by this point). However, you'll need the corrected files to generate a new, now edited, master index. When you send the client the last batch of files, also send along the marked-up master index and "subindexes" so they can see the corrections that must be made and a printout of the edited, finished index. If you did this before sending off the last batch of files, you won't have to send marked-up subindexes for those files because you will have edited them before sending them off. Someone on the client's end will have to make the actual corrections to the tags, working from your marked-up copies. After they go through this horrendous process of making the corrections on their end, they'll agree to letting you have all the files back in the future to make the necessary edits or will make arrangements to let you have the entire book at once for indexing and editing. I can almost guarantee it, having been there... done that. ;-D BTW, I strongly agree with Jan's recommendation that you create the index in Macrex first, before embedding. If you resist the temptation to "tweak" the index some more while embedding, that horrendous editing process described above will be reduced to correcting typos made while embedding (provided you received the entire book for indexing in Macrex before embedding). Tweaking while embedding can create the need for additional edits if you're not careful. I avoid the "tweak temptation" by having my husband do the actual embedding so I don't re-read and "re-index" the book (as you tend to do while embedding) after finishing the index in Macrex. It's then just a matter of comparing the printout of the embedded index with what was originally generated from Macrex as quality control. YMMV without a helper to embed for you. One big caveat! If the client batches the files to you and you batch them out, your administrative overhead on the project will skyrocket, especially if you're sending your embedded files out via Fedex or another courier. When I did a project this way with a one or two day turnaround on each batch, I was copying files, writing cover letters, completing airbills, and running to the Fedex box on sometimes a daily basis. (Your phone bill is also likely to balloon when you and the client are zinging so many files back and forth.) Being that we don't usually crank out an index every single day or even every other day, this is a highly abnormal expenditure of time and therefore money. So, be sure to build that into your rate structure for the project. That time really adds up! (The client compensated me for it when I told them about it, in case you're wondering.) Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs Technical and Scientific Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:15:44 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GVHatch@AOL.COM Subject: Annual Conference, ASI So. Calif. Chapter, Feb. 8, 1997 The American Society of Indexers' Southern California Chapter invites you to our 1997 annual conference Theme: Building Your Indexing Business Hyatt Regency Long Beach, on the water near Shoreline Drive, 200 South Pine Avenue, Long Beach, CA 90802 (310-491-1234) Saturday, February 8, a full day of presentations plus networking from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. (Friday, February 7 will feature an informal reception and no-host bar at about 5:00 p.m., followed by dinner out.) Perfect Location, Beautiful Business: Come and enjoy the gorgeous weather, the world-famous area attractions, the outstanding outdoor activities; all make southern California a superior destination. This is especially true during February, when Long Beach has an average daytime temperature of 65 to 70 degrees F (above zero). Leave your snow boots at home, bring your sunglasses, and plan to relax in the sunshine after learning about building your freelance indexing business. Registration fee (includes continental breakfast and lunch): If registered before Jan. 4 (5 weeks early): ASI members, $65, non-members $75. If registered between Jan. 5 and Jan. 25 (2 weeks early): $85/$95. If registering after Jan. 25 or at the door: $100/$110. Cost of hotel room: $112 per night. Information on additional hotels with cheaper prices is available for those interested. Featured topics: --Frances Lennie will speak on "Beyond Basic Indexing: How to Approach Revisions, Cumulations, and Spin-Off Indexes" --Mort Wedner: "Income and Asset Protection for the Self-Employed Indexer: Taking the Mystery Out of Disability Income and Individual Long Term Care Plans" --Ann Blum will offer suggestions on "How to Increase Productivity in Your Business" --Panel: "Building an Indexing Career . . . in the Moonlight?" ...a panel discussion by freelancers who are also employed or occupied full-time in other jobs. The panel will feature Bonny McLaughlin, Micki Taylor and Gaylene Hatch. --Both of the popular indexing programs, Cindex and Macrex, will have demo tables. Also, in addition to and independent of our program, Cindex and Macrex will each offer a seminar for existing users of their programs, for a small fee. Contact them directly for more information at macrex@aol.com and ircindex@aol.com. How to register: Information and an email version of the registration form are available from E. Micki Taylor at EMickiT@aol.com. Please include the following information with your check and snail mail it to the address below: your filled-out e-mail registration form, or a sheet with your name, telephone, street address, city, state, and Zip. Each conferee will receive a list of the conferees and their addresses; if you do not want your name on this list, please so indicate on your enclosure. If you wish to share a hotel room with another conferee, say so and we'll be a clearinghouse. Send your check, made out to ASI SoCal, to E. Micki Taylor, 613 N. Plymouth Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90004-1420. If you have questions, call Micki (but not before 10:00 a.m. please) at (213) 465-0827 or e-mail her at EMickiT@aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 02:38:46 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Cheryl Dietsch Subject: Re: Page-nos unknown - help Sarah, I've never used Macrex, so I don't know how much trouble the page numbers would be there, but I do have plenty of experience with PageMaker since that's what I use nearly every day (I'm an in-house indexer). PageMaker is somewhat similar to MS Word in that you enter the index codes in a dialog box that looks quite similar to the one in Word (I also use Word at work). You can also tell PageMaker to take the page range to the next whatever style (such as the next heading, the end of a bulleted list, etc.) so that you don't have to worry about whether you got all the pages listed within the range. As far as refreshing your memory about headings used, PageMaker has a Show Index feature. I only know how to get it to show the index codes for one chapter at a time, but I know it's possible to get it to show the codes for multiple chapters, too. To show the codes for one chapter (or section, or however the book is broken into files), open up the chapter and select "Show Index" from the Utilities menu. PageMaker will then display a dialog box with all your index codes for that chapter. It does not combine the codes in any way, so the entries will not look like a formatted index, but it still helps you see how you coded things and if there are any changes that need to be made for consistency. The changes can be made directly from this dialog box if you like. If you want to see a formatted index with PageMaker, just compile part or all of the chapters that you have already put index codes into. To do that, open up either a two- or three-column new document (or an index template if you have one), select "Book" from the Utilities menu (PM6) or from the File menu (PM5), select all the chapters that you want to include in the compiled index and hit OK, then select "Create Index" from the Utilities menu. If you're just compiling the index to look at the main entries, then the default format settings will be fine. Click OK, wait for a while, then when PageMaker is done and gives you the text flow icon click where you want the text to start flowing into the document (be sure to have Autoflow turned on in the Layout menu). I hope all of this helps. If any of my explanations are not clear, please let me know and I'll try to explain better. Cheryl Dietsch Macmillan Publishing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:15:45 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Susan Holbert Subject: Rates/Learning to Index I'd like to announce to anyone interested a few things posted to the Internet. In September, I gave a presentation for the Mass ASI chapter about marketing your services. They've posted my handout, which includes marketing tips and also a chart of what I think the going rates are. I'd be happy to get feedback on this chart if people agree or disagree. In any case, it's a starting point for negotiations. It's posted at http://www.tiac.net/users/marisol/susanh.htm I have also just put up my own Web page. For would-be indexers, there is a quiz, Is Indexing For You? which includes a description of what skills and traits an indexer utilizes. Also, FYI, my training video and workshops are $20 off for the holiday season. The address is http://www.abbington.com/holbert Susan Holbert "Indexing workshops and videos" susanh@world.std.com 617-893-0514 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:15:00 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Kasoff Subject: Re: Page-nos unknown - help Cheryl I got your name off INDEX-L. I am a freelance abstractor/indexer. I am seeking to add to my client base. Does Macmillan need any database indexers? Suellen G. Kasoff (Larry is my son. He set up our e-mail system). My e-mail address is Sglickman@juno.com. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:20:36 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JanCW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Page-nos unknown - help In a message dated 96-12-13 03:46:14 EST, you write: > PageMaker has a Show Index feature. I > only know how to get it to show the index codes for one chapter at a > time, but I know it's possible to get it to show the codes for multiple > chapters, too. You should be able to see the index for all the chapters if you build a Book list, and then choose Show Index. The Book list often resides in the first file, but if you are in Chapter 5, you need to rebuild it to get the codes from the other chapters to show up. Jan Wright ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:10:15 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Donating books This is not exactly about indexing, but since we share an appreciation of the importance of books, I thought I'd post this. Cheers, Carol Roberts carol.roberts@mixcom.com >> >>Fellow philanthropists: >> >>Houghton Mifflin Publishing Corporation will donate one book to a >>children's hospital for every 25 e-mails they receive. >>Please e-mail them at: >> >> share@hmco.com >> >>please spare a moment to clog their email. . . and let your friends know. >> So far they have only received 3,400 messages. Last year they reached >>23,000. >> >> >> > > >-- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > | Jonathan D. W. Kahl kahl@csd.uwm.edu | > | Associate Professor, Atmospheric Sciences | > | Department of Geosciences Voice: 414-229-3949 | > | University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee FAX: 414-229-5452 | > | P.O. Box 413 | > | Milwaukee, WI 53201 http://www.uwm.edu/~kahl | > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 16:07:59 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Donating books--not! I've just learned that the Houghton Mifflin thing isn't true. Too bad, 'cause it was a good idea. Sorry folks. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:26:38 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ann Norcross Organization: Crossover Information Services Subject: Re: Donating books--not! The Houghton Mifflin offer was true for a while; they were collecting e-mails and sending copies of "Polar Express" to children in hospitals. HM obtained the 50,000 e-mails they were asking for (cynical opinion: probably building a marketing mailing list)and are no longer accepting messages at the special e-mail address they had set up. You can read about it at the HM web page: http://www.hmco.com/hmco/trade/hmi/polar/ Ann Norcross Crossover Information Services Carol Roberts wrote: > > I've just learned that the Houghton Mifflin thing isn't true. Too bad, > 'cause it was a good idea. Sorry folks. > > Cheers, > > Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | I'm not into working out. My > Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | philosophy: No pain, no pain. > Milwaukee, WI | -- Carol Leifer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 07:52:46 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: WMacallen@AOL.COM Subject: Re: History of Index-L The 4th issue of the STC publication has an article written by the woman who started the Techwr-L Listserv on the history of that Listserv. Has someone written an article on the history of the Index-L Listserv, or can someone briefly describe how it began, who started it, rate of growth, etc.? I think KEYWORDS discusses topics raised on the Listserv, but I was interested more in how it was started, etc. Just curious.. Willa MacAllen WMacallen@aol.com (This address will change soon!) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 11:35:03 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Mary D. Taffet" Subject: Re: History of Index-L In-Reply-To: <199612141255.HAA28241@mailbox.syr.edu> Hi there, In regard to the question about the history of Index-L -- I can contribute this much: It was started by someone who was formerly a student of Professor Barbara Kwasnik, who is a member of the faculty of the School of Information Studies here at Syracuse University. I took an Indexing and Abstracting class from Barbara over the summer -- we were asked to subscribe to this Listserv, and she mentioned that a former student of hers had started the list. If I am not mistaken, that person is currently the Listowner; I'm sorry to say that I don't recall the name. -- Mary Taffet Graduate Student Syracuse University ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 09:46:31 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: jfarned@RAIN.ORG Subject: Rates for Glossaries Dear Index-l, I have finally emerged from the world of lurkers! First, I would like to thank all of you for all the valuable information you have given out about our wonderful field. I just received a job indexing a book on the next fifty years of computer technology (joy!). The publisher asked if I would be able to include a glossary. I said that I would since I have done them in the past, but it has been about four years. Has anyone compiled a glossary recently, and if you have, what is an appropriate rate to charge my publisher? Thank you! Sincerely, Shannon Smith ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Summerland Inn~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Information Bank~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~Indexing/Editing/Technical Writing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2161 Ortega Hill Road, P.O. Box 1209 Summerland, CA 93067 (805) 969-5225 ~~~~~~~~~Web Site http://www.rain.org/~jfarned/~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 17:15:06 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LLFEdServ@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Rates for Glossaries I would also be interested in answers to this question. I will probably compiling a Spanish/English glossary for a textbook next month (or so) and have to come up with a reasonable fee. I have done this twice before. The first time I grossly undercharged for the time involved (about $150), and the second time I charged $800, which was a fair price at the time (about 3-4 years ago). The company asked for a flat fee rate (as they will this time). The book is about 250 to 300 pages of text. Any suggestions. Thanks, Leslie LLF Editorial Services