From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 7-JAN-1996 13:57:45.77 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9512C" Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 08:11:13 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9512C" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:43:00 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Trish, The practice of sending a complete index to author or publisher can backfire on you. I'm glad it worked out for you, and even led to business. But they could just as easily been unscrupulous and used your work product without paying you, since you weren't under contract to them, had no copyright, and they owed you nothing. You probably wouldn't even have know that they did that. So I'd be very circumspect about sending a complete index as a sample, if it's to the publisher of the book. When I do that kind of thing, I send about A-C, or G-L or something like that. It's enough to give them a look at your work, but not enough to just "lift" as is. Unfortunately, there are dishonest people in any business, and it's important to protect yourself. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:43:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C.JACOBS" Subject: hypertext links ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- My colleagues and I are working on convincing our employer that indexers are the appropriate people to make the hypertext links in our internet pages. To date the reaction has been that the database indexing is our business, but communications can handle the rest (the results have been uneven, to say the least). I would be interested in hearing from anyone who employs indexers to do this type of indexing. It seems self-evident to us that we have the necessary skills. For some reason the employer is doubtful. We would like to find convincing arguments from other employers as to why it is worthwhile, and why this is regarded as a type of indexing. We have provided the indexers' arguments, to little avail. Feel free to e-mail me directly. I'll summarize any answers. Thanks Christine Jacobs Montreal, Quebec incj@musicb.mcgill.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:44:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Prindex@aol.com Subject: other USDA courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am considering taking Applied Indexing and/or Introduction to the Editing Process (I've already taken Basic Indexing.) If any of you have taken these courses and would care to comment on them I'd appreciate it. You can e-mail me directly. Thanks. Judy Press Press Indexing Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:45:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: meeting in Milwaukee ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Greetings indexers! The Wisconsin indexers are meeting once again; the discussion topic is marketing. Hope to see you there! Date and time: Sat., Jan. 13, 11:00 a.m.-2:00 p.m. Place: Medical College of Wisconsin, Todd Wehr Library, History of Medicine Room (3rd floor), 8701 Watertown Plank Road, Milwaukee, Wi Directions: (1) from points west, take I94 to Milwaukee; get off at 84th St. exit and go north to W. Wisconsin Ave.; go west (left) on Wisconsin and turn right at 87th St.; go north on 87th, which will go right past the Medical College complex (if you get to Watertown Plank Rd., you went a little too far); park in either of two large lots that are east and north of the Medical College and go in the door at the east end of the building. (2) from the north, take I45 south to Watertown Plank Rd.; go east and turn right on 87th St.; take the second right, which gets you to the parking lots described in (1) above. (3) from the south, take I94 north to Milwaukee and then west; get off at the 84th St. exit and follow directions in (1) above. (4) from the east, swim to Milwaukee . . . (ha, ha, ha) The Medical College's cafeteria will be closed (I don't know whether that's a blessing or not), so plan to bring a lunch or order pizza. If you need more information, please e-mail me at Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com or Michele DeYoe at mdeyoe@post.its.mcw.edu. Cheers, Carol Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com 414-964-5271 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:45:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex@aol.com Subject: Re: Hotels in Denver ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The suggestion that people get busy and make arrangements for Denver prompts this advance notice of a mailing currently being prepared for Macrex users. In conjuction with the annual meeting, we will be offering two Macrex classes. Both will be on Wednesday, May15th. The announcement is being prepared right now and will shortly be mailed to all registered Macrex users. Anyone wanting to attend either (or both) of these sessions should make reservations accordingly. You do not have to be a registered Macrex user to attend these classes -- anyone wanting a copy of the announcement should drop me a private e-mail note with the address to which the mailing should be sent. Gale Rhoades Director Macrex Sales & Support Office ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:00:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Indexers As Hypertext Link Creators ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Christine Jacobs wrote about the powers that be in her organization not appreciating the connection between indexing skills and creating hypertext links for Internet content. Having heard the indexers' arguments, management remains unmoved. I guess "...against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain." Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:00:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annblum@aol.com Subject: Re: Denver ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- James, In answer to your question about the Denver meeting. The ASI Denver Conference is being held May 16-18, 1996 at the Executive Tower Inn. Reigstration forms are in the soon-to-be-mailed-out "Key Words." If you are not a member of ASI but would like to attend the meeting, please write to ASI Denver Conference, P.O. Box 1298, Westboro, MA 01581 or call (508) 836-3608. This meeting promises to be filled with all kinds of great indexing information, workshops, roundtable discussions, and speakers with varied indexing backgrounds and experiences. Ann Blum Denver Conference Coordinator ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:01:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Philip W. Jones" Subject: Re: other USDA courses In-Reply-To: <9512151443.AA29616@Rt66.com> from "Prindex@aol.com" at Dec 15, 95 09:44:51 am ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Prindex@aol.com writes: > ... If any of you have taken these > courses and would care to comment on them I'd appreciate it. You can e-mail > me directly. Thanks. We actually had a related question. Before we shell out the bucks for USDA courses, what benefits are there to taking the course over just reading the text books and then trying our hand at indexing several already-published books? We realize you get some feedback and critiques and you can put the course on your resume, but is it worth the cost if you're pretty well-motivated and think you can learn on your own? Just curious, Heather /----------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Physicists and proto-indexers... | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | Phil, Heather, Doug and Ivy Jones hpjones@rt66.com | | Los Alamos, New Mexico http://mack.rt66.com/hpjones/hpjones.html | \----------------------------------------------------------------------/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:01:09 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard T. Glenner" Subject: FW: Speed-reading courses ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sorry, It took so long. =20 This is the an update for anyone who wants to order the book. It is available at Barnes & Noble Book by Mail, 1-800-242-6657. The = acutal title is:=20 "The Evelyn Wood Seven Day Speed Reading and Learning program" Speed-Reading ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- What I do is more "skimming" or "scanning" to pick up these highlights, rather than serious "reading." -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------- There is a course and book called Evelyn Wood's Speed-Reading. It has = been around for years and is very effective effective for both = "skimming" and reading for "content". I have taken it and highly = recommend it. It is updated regularly. I loaned the book to my daughter and will need = to get the ordering information from her and will post it. Richard Hope this helps. If you need more information, send me a e-mail. _____________________________________________________________ Richard Glenner, (Richard T. Glenner & Associates)=20 Business & Computer Consulting Services E-mail to: rtglennr@onramp.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:26:10 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@aol.com Subject: Copyright ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Janet Perlman said in discussing a beginning indexer's desire to send to a publisher and index that she had done as a sample of her work that the indexer "had no copyright." I beg to differ. Copyright resides in a work upon its creation. You do not have to "claim" copyright to have it. On the other hand, registering your copyright with the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress helps in legal battles, should one develop. If a publisher were to use a created work without obtaining permission, they are breaking copyright laws. Of course, the sensible thing to do is to put your own copyright notice on the index when you send it to the publisher and to register it. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:26:24 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Now it's my turn to ask a question. Are newspapers indexed? Always? Sometimes? Never? I'd be interested in hearing about the subject, as I know nothing about it. I've got some ideas for some local community newspapers, as well as the "big" newspapers in my metropolitan area, and am wondering about current practices. If they are indexed, is pay usually on a per-entry basis? It wouldn't be possible to do per page. Look forward to hearing from some of you. Happy holidays to all! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:26:35 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING In-Reply-To: <199512151445.GAA07457@biggulp.callamer.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Trish, > > The practice of sending a complete index to author or publisher can backfire > on you. I'm glad it worked out for you, and even led to business. But they > could just as easily been unscrupulous and used your work product without > paying you, since you weren't under contract to them, had no copyright, and > they owed you nothing. You probably wouldn't even have know that they did > that. Actually, Janet, you own the copyright to any written work from the moment your fingers hit the keyboard. So, in the unlikely event that someone wanted to use your index without your permission, they would be in violation of your copyright. You obtain extra legal avenues to pursue if you REGISTER the copyright, of course, but you still own it even without registration. Another point...if the book is already published, it seems pretty unlikely to me that a publisher would be able to make use of a post-publishing index. If the company reissued the book, it would almost certainly have different page numbers, so the sample would be useless. I agree, though, that it's not necessary to send a complete index. For the purposes of such a sample, I'd index the first 5 chapters or so of the book (depending on its length), rather than index the entire book and just send the first five letters of the alphabet. That way, an editor can actually compare the chapter with the entries in the index to see if you really know what you're doing. I've been ripped off by publishers, but it's only happened twice in 25 years. In both cases, it involved work I was contracted to do but was never paid for. I agree that it's smart to protect yourself, but I wouldn't want beginners to think this kind of ripoff is at all common. Or is it, and I've just never had it happen? =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:26:53 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: d-lib digital library magazine and Windows Webix available ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Greetings! The Australian Society of Indexers has now released the Windows version of Webix - the software to convert an ASCII back of book style index to HTML. Its URL http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/webixwin.zip (The page on the Web indexing prize etc: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/inetindx.htm) It was written by Jonathan Jermey and is free for download. Point the software at the file you want to convert and it will produce a file with .HTM extension e.g. give it INDEX.TXT and it will produce INDEX.HTM ---------------- I just found an interesting digital library magazine on the Web: http://www.dlib.org/dlib.html The July 95 edition has some topics on metadata and metaindexes... Happy hunting... ;) All the best Dwight Webmaster AusSI ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:36:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Index-l on auto pilot I have put the listserv on auto...I will be away from Dec 21 until Jan 2. If problems arise between now and Thursday, I will be around handle it...after that you're on your own. We can only hope our spamming friend is taking some time off also 8). Happy holidays to you all. Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:27:07 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING Welcome, Tim! First of all, don't be discouraged. Word of mouth really does work, but it takes some time. >2. If you haven't actually done indexing as work for hire, how do you include >a sample index with your resume? You can index something--almost anything--to create a sample. It doesn't have to be something somebody asked you to index. Look around for a pamphlet or other short book. > >I have spent countless hours attempting to get meaningful information out of >the Literary Marketplace and to produce a credible resume, but it seems as if >word of mouth is going to be the best possible route. > >If you have recomendations as to how I can get into the game, please send >them my way. Every time you meet someone, tell the person what you do for a living, e.g., "I write back-of-the-book indexes." Hand out business cards. Attend meetings on any topic that interests you; remember that in order to network, you have to actually meet people (typically face to face). Add your line of work to your e-mail sig file and use it on e-mail lists you subscribe to. BTW, you don't necessarily have to have done an index yet in order to get work. In fact there's always got to be a first book, right? It's not necessary to say to prospects, "I want to do indexes." Visit local libraries and tell the reference librarian who you are and what you do. If there's a bulletin board, put up your business card. I also heartily recommend the book _Getting Business to Come to You_, by Paul and Sarah Edwards and Laura Clampitt Douglas. Good luck, Tim. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:27:34 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: other USDA courses >We actually had a related question. Before we shell out the bucks for >USDA courses, what benefits are there to taking the course over just >reading the text books and then trying our hand at indexing several >already-published books? We realize you get some feedback and >critiques and you can put the course on your resume, but is it worth >the cost if you're pretty well-motivated and think you can learn on >your own? That might be possible with something like a typing course; with typing, you have an objective way of knowing whether you've learned the skill. How are you going to know whether the indexes you're producing are any good unless an experienced indexer looks at them? I'm not saying the USDA course is the only way of getting feedback. But I am predicting that teaching yourself from a book will not give the same results. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:40:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? In-Reply-To: <199512181703.JAA00078@biggulp.callamer.com> On Mon, 18 Dec 1995 JPerlman@aol.com wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Now it's my turn to ask a question. Are newspapers indexed? Always? > Sometimes? Never? I'd be interested in hearing about the subject, as I > know nothing about it. I've got some ideas for some local community > newspapers, as well as the "big" newspapers in my metropolitan area, and am > wondering about current practices. If they are indexed, is pay usually on a > per-entry basis? It wouldn't be possible to do per page. Janet, every newspaper of any size is indexed. Some of the small weeklies might not be, but the large metropolitan papers are not only indexed and cross-indexed, they are microfilmed and stored electronically. I have no idea of what the pay for this work is, or how one goes about getting it, but if you live in a place that has a small paper that is NOT currently being indexed, you could start there and ask about doing it. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 12:55:30 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Copyright Fred and Sonsie, I stand corrected, and obviously need to learn more about copyright. Thank you, thank you for point out this gap in my knowledge. It just goes to show that all of us learn from Index-L -- it's an ongoing process. I intend to get a book on intellectual property law and learn what I need to know. I would never want to be in a position of being ignorant and allowing myself to be taken advantage of. This all points up the fact that being an indexer, with its very intellectual process and product, is still being in business, and requires skills and knowledge beyond those needed to create the product around which the business centers. Indexers are in business -- let there be no doubt about it! Learning .... always learning. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 13:18:07 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lawrenc846@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? Looking at the subject from a user point of view (I've had occasion within the last few years to systematically search newspapers for various topics) and without going to the Library of Congress and systematically checking this out- The London Times has been indexed from the eighteenth century, the New York Times index apparently begins in the mid 19th century. There are a number of WPA funded indices for newspapers dating from the 1930's (I'm not sure how many have been published) but systematic indexing of many newspapers appears to have begun only in the last 30 or so years. These are all big newspapers. I'm not at all sure how or if local community newspapers are indexed. My impression (and it is ONLY an impression) is that most, if not all, of the indexing is done in house. Lawrence H. Feldman Lawrenc846@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:26:51 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Tim Dixon Organization: Edward Lowe Foundation Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? > > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > > Now it's my turn to ask a question. Are newspapers indexed? Always? > > Sometimes? Never? I'd be interested in hearing about the subject, as I > > know nothing about it. I've got some ideas for some local community > > newspapers, as well as the "big" newspapers in my metropolitan area, and am > > wondering about current practices. If they are indexed, is pay usually on a > > per-entry basis? It wouldn't be possible to do per page. > Oftentimes public/ academic libraries or local history societies index local newspapers if the corporation that owns the newspaper does make it available electronically or does not do the work in house. You may want to check the libraries in your community to see if any of them perform this valuable service. Who knows, may be the library could be looking to contract qualified indexers to free up some internal staff for other pressing work. Good luck. --Tim Tim Dixon, M.L.S Manager of Information Services Edward Lowe Foundation P.O. Box 8 Cassopolis, MI 49031-0008 (616) 445-4265 / Fax (616) 445-4350 TIM@els.lowe.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 15:01:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? Jan.... The St. Louis Post-Dispatch is available on a database at the local library. There is no index as such, but you can do searches on combinations of text, e.g., "erroneous + limbaugh + rush", and it will return all articles with those combinations. It is very efficient for searching. I am certain the pointer-generator doesn't involve human intervention. Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 14:50:03 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Terry Rustin Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? In-Reply-To: <199512182018.OAA27750@formby.tenet.edu> I can only speak from my personal experiences.....but think of public libraries as sources of newspaper indexes. In my previous life as a reference librarian, I indexed both the Oregonian and the Oregon Journal for the Multnomah County Library, and the Arizona Daily Star and Tucson Daily Citizen for the Tucson Public Library. I do not know if those papers also did their own indexes (I probably did know at the time, but this was a LONG time ago), but I do know that the indexes we prepared were heavily used. Laura Rustin trustin@tenet.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:58:52 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lee Ellen Brower Subject: Snailmail addresses for Cindex My friend, the Loveland reference librarian, believed that she had won an introductory version of Cindex Cindex at the recent Boulder Indexer's conference. Instead, she was the recipient of some sort of enhancement (?). Unfortunately, she has misplaced the mail address of the distributor who donated the Cindex door prize. Since she isn't an indexer and doesn't even own Cindex, she wants to negotiate some sort of mutually beneficial trade, either with the distributors of Cindex or with a Cindex user who could use the enhancement. Responses will be faithfully delivered to the reference librarian by me, Lee Brower. lbindex@aol.com Loveland, Colorado, where the Canadian geese winter and humans watch their step. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 17:30:39 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? Several years ago the Golden Gate Chapter had a meeting that was a visit to the libraries of the two major San Francisco newspapers. We had an opportunity to see the old-fashioned indexing-by-hand method at the Examiner, and then the high-tech computer system at the Chronicle. Then we took both librarian-hosts out to lunch (pre-arranged at a nearby Italian place they had recommended, charging about $5 or $6 more per person to cover the costs of the guests' lunches and to make a little money for chapter expenses). It's a great way to combine a meeting with learning about another field of indexing. Elinor Lindheimer President American Society of Indexers elinorl@mcn.org voice: (707) 937-1646 or (707) 937-3810 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 20:30:42 +1100 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? At 10:26 18/12/95 ECT, Janet wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Now it's my turn to ask a question. Are newspapers indexed? Always? > Sometimes? Never? I'd be interested in hearing about the subject, as I >know nothing about it. I've got some ideas for some local community >newspapers, as well as the "big" newspapers in my metropolitan area, and am >wondering about current practices. If they are indexed, is pay usually on a >per-entry basis? It wouldn't be possible to do per page. Some up-market newspapers like the London Times and the Sydney Morning Herald are or have been indexed. The Sydney Morning Herald maintained an index for about 20 years (?) from 1950 to 1970 or so but then stopped: I believe they are now indexed as a public service by the NSW State Library. Because of the quantity of text, the indexing tends to be fairly shallow. This is over and above the 'morgue' of clippings maintained and filed under subject by almost every newspaper. I know nothing about payment rates, but I look forward to finding out. Jonathan. Janet, Last April after the Indexing conference in Marysville I went on a tour of the library at The Age newspaper, Melbourne. One thing that interested me about their indexing was the option in their computer system to 'tag' an article which had been subject to legal action or complaint. This meant that a journalist consulting the index for background material would not reuse the libellous article. Another thing that struck me was the way the indexing system had grown, like Topsy. It used a semi-classified system of headings (e.g. Animals--Pigs). They had recently tried to become consistent with other libraries in the group, and a consultant from AUSSI had advised on the list of subject headings to use. (I can't remember any details). This work was done by full-time library staff so there were no freelance rates. I believe that major newspapers should be indexed. Some articles of interest from local newspapers are probably indexed by local history sections of public libraries, however much of it (most of it in our local) is ephemeral and not worth keeping. If a newspaper is not indexed, it is also possible to search a different newspaper index to get an idea of the rough dates to browse to see when that incident was covered in your own paper. This subject interests me (as a librarian and an indexer), but unfortunately is something I have no personal experience of. Glenda. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:42:35 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Disability? I've been considering disability insurance. Until this morning, I'd never heard a negative thing about disability insurance: the general consensus being don't go 1 second longer without it.... Then I mention it to a friend who I often look to for sage self-employment advice and he jumps all over me: basically calling it the biggest insurance rip-off since whole life. The cost will be ~ $ 1300/yr. His arguments included things like 1) your disability is an unlikely occurrence 2) since *they* determine when you're really disabled they can still rip you off 3) if you do get disabled you can get Welfare and Social Security. I should point out my friend is a business genius but personally paranoid. Like they say: just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. My question is this: what are people doing about this issue? I'm aware that some people who have employees or perhaps are incorporated are required to have Workman's Comp; I'm directing this only to those who are sole proprietorships and have the option to get it or not get it. Thanks Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:04:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING My 2 cents on the cold call vs. networking issue: I've tried both, and networking and eventually referrals have by far produced the better results for me. My original break ~ 5 years ago and an occasional project have been the result of sending resumes and following with phone calls, but now it's strictly word-of-mouth. This is in the good news/bad news category: it's difficult to get started indexing [bad news: cold calls are fairly low success rate], as it is to get established in any freelance work, but word-of mouth is eventually a much better means of advancing your career than years of cold-calling [good news: survive long enough and keep sound business concepts like training and personal integrity in mind, and success can and will come] Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:21:14 +8 Reply-To: grant@onyxgfx.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Grant Hogarth Organization: Onyx Graphics Corp. Subject: Re: Disability Insurance? I've got it, have had it for years. Costs me about $160.00 a year. Makes sure that my bills get paid if I get disabled/killed...even if it's *not* job related. I'd go look for a less expensive policy. Grant ===================================== Grant Hogarth, Information Developer Onyx Graphics Corp. Midvale, UT www.onyxgfx.com ftp.onyxgfx.com #include "In a world of change, learners adapt, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists." --Eric Hoffer ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:37:41 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Disability? It kind of depends on how old you are and what your medical condition is. If you are young and strong, $1300 may be a lot of unnecessary expense. However, it's fairly certain you won't be young and strong all your life and there will be a point where you cannot get disability insurance. I am in that predicament. I am only 49 and retired with full medical benefits. However, I have several chronic medical problems that sooner or later are bound to lay me up for a while. I cannot get any kind of disability insurance, even for a limited benefit of 3-6 months. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 13:54:26 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: PilarW@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Disability Insurance? "second" to Grant's comment. I've got it, at about the same rate. Make sure you negotiate for a reasonable monthly stipend, and you'll do fine. I've never heard of such an expensive policy, personally. Just as musicians insure their lips, hands, etc., I consider disability insurance insurance for my hands (and their wonderful keyboarding) and my brain. There's no way I could support my family on welfare as I could indexing or even should I get disabled. good luck, Pilar Wyman Indexing Annapolis, MD Tel/Fax: 410-263-7537 Email: PilarW@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:54:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Sonsie C. Conroy" Subject: Re: Disability? In-Reply-To: <199512191745.JAA12246@biggulp.callamer.com> > My question is this: what are people doing about this issue? I'm aware that some people who have employees or perhaps are incorporated are required to have Workman's Comp; I'm directing this only to those who are sole proprietorships and have the option to get it or not get it. Kevin, frankly I can't AFFORD disability insurance.I'm having enough trouble paying for health insurance (IMO much more important). I know several people who do have it and it helps them sleep better at night. If you want to do this, investigate the company--and the policy--thoroughly. Be sure you will get a reasonable deal if you're going to pay that much money! This family has two earners in it, which is one reason I feel reasonably certain that if one of us were unable to work for an extended period of time we would manage somehow. If you're living alone and haven't got another sort of safety net (a big inheritance or a trust fund or rich folks who can bail you out), you probably DO need something. Another thing to consider is that the younger and healthier you are, of course, the cheaper the policy. People nearing retirement age, or with a history of medical problems, will probably find the cost prohibitive. Social Security does cover disability, but it can take up to a year to qualify...and the restrictions are tough. It's a last-ditch method of covering a serious problem, not something you can depend on to come through in an emergency. This is a tough question. Thanks for asking it, and I'm looking forward to others' responses. =Sonsie= sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:10:05 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dave Strickler Subject: Newspaper Indexing The biggest (I think) indexer of newspapers in the U.S. is UMI (University Microfilms Inc.). They have an operation in Cincinnati or Louisville or some darn place (no, not Ann Arbor). I was horrified to discover, when I inquired, that they hire kids straight out of school, with no particular indexing or librarianship training, and pay them about $17K a year. I immediately lost interest. On the other hand, the LA Times has a staff of in-house indexers, who get about $30K - LA's an expensive place to live, after all. I wonder if indexing of large newspapers has any real future, in any case, what with them all becoming inexpensively available online. Given the lack of consistency in the indexing and who-knows-what sort of access points, free text searching of large newspaper databases may work as well as controlled-term searching. For the small newspapers, there are a couple of books on the subject, and Wellisch's _Indexing from A to Z_ spends several pages on the topic. Best, Dave Strickler San Simeon, CA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Matthew Gilmore - DC Pub. Lib" Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing? In-Reply-To: <199512181702.MAA08397@transcom.capcon.net> from "JPerlman@aol.com" at Dec 18, 95 10:26:24 am UMI seems to do most of the print indexes to the major dailies, as well as the microfilm. New York Times Index is published by NYT or an affiliate. UMI also has been doing CDROMs of those major papers, also Newsbank does a number of major and minor papers on CDROM. Ethnic Watch does a variety of ethnic and religious papers on CDROM. Other smaller papersare putting themselves on the internet--the Journal newspapers here in the Washington DC area. Also, of course, Washington Post has gone onto Digital Ink, and the Washington Times weekly edition is on the Web. So I would assume the questions should be directed to: UMI, Newsbank, and those producing the text for the 'net. It would be interesting to hear the answer. According to JPerlman@aol.com: . . ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- . Now it's my turn to ask a question. Are newspapers indexed? Always? . Sometimes? Never? I'd be interested in hearing about the subject, as I . know nothing about it. I've got some ideas for some local community . newspapers, as well as the "big" newspapers in my metropolitan area, and am . wondering about current practices. If they are indexed, is pay usually on a . per-entry basis? It wouldn't be possible to do per page. . . Look forward to hearing from some of you. Happy holidays to all! . . Janet Perlman . Southwest Indexing . Matthew Gilmore mgilmore@capcon.net D.C. Public Library Washingtoniana Division ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:40:39 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Monica Petersen Subject: Re: Disability? Kevin Mulrooney wrote: "I've been considering disability insurance. I'm no expert on whether it's worth it or just a ripoff. With luck, someone else can summarize that --- I'd love to know what others think about this too. On another tack, though, I've been close enough to the text of other kinds of insurance-like policies to advise this: Talk to at least 2 agents and get answers to all the questions you can muster. When they recommend specific policies, have them walk you through the policy text, top to bottom. Some states have readability rules for these things. Still, no matter how simple the language seems, the concepts are often complex. So don't let yourself be rushed. Then take a copy of each policy home for you to read and contemplate on your own. Read *everything*. Twice. One paragraph at a time. Make sure you understand the definitions for what does and does not count as disabled, partially disabled, etc. Under what conditions are benefits fully paid? Partially paid? Know what fraction you get under different levels of partial payment for different kinds of disability. Understand the appeals process: who is involved, what you have to do, etc. Get references and interview people who have filed and resolved claims in the past year. Compare the policies not just to each other, but to other alternatives. Different aspects of "disability" may already be covered by provisions in your homeowner's policy, your auto insurance, an Accidental Death or Dismemberment policy, or whatever. (Read carefully: disability and dismemberment aren't equivalent.) Do you have a Keogh or IRA or SEP-IRA? Find out what provisions they have for your becoming disabled. If they'll pay something, find out how much, under what conditions, who decides, how and to whom decisions are appealed, etc. (same song, third verse). Also, call your local Social Security office (after they're off furlough...) to find out exactly what Social Security and Welfare would cover. Get their criteria: when would they say you qualified (and who decides, and who decides the appeals?) and how much would you get? Then discount those numbers by the extent to which you think SS and W will be around to maintain those payments. Sorry if this is too elementary. I hope to hear from others about this -- good question! Monica monica.petersen@ey.com ---------- "Millions of people expected to wake this morning, but didn*t. ... Respect what you have. Strive for what you want." -- Maya Angelou ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:06:02 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Joan Stout Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing In-Reply-To: <199512192144.AA02894@lamb.sas.com> from "Dave Strickler" at Dec 19, 95 12:10:05 pm I got my start in newspaper indexing at the Durham Morning Herald/ Durham Sun in North Carolina. It was a medium-sized newspaper at the time. I was hired to do parttime data entry, but the woman in charge realized I could do more. One morning, she tossed me the paper and told me to mark it. I discovered a new skill that I never knew I had! Within a couple of years, I was running the department. We took a lot of pride in our indexing operation. We indexed the two daily papers as well as several newsletters and the student newspaper for Duke University. We also marketed our software and provided training in newspaper indexing. When the new publisher was hired, we had two fulltime people and two parttime people. We were appreciated and respected throughout the company. (Well, the pressmen probably didn't appreciate us very much - probably didn't even know we existed.) The new publisher immediately started downsizing. He eventually got to the indexing department and let go all of my employees. And then he started whittling away at my hours. He was also very vocal about the fact that we didn't "really need the newpaper indexed." When my hours were cut to 20 per week, I started freelancing and got training in technical writing. I enjoyed newspaper indexing. We had a huge subject authority file that I eventually internalized. The work was challenging, and we had a bound index every month - instant gratification and something tangible to show for your work. I was very well informed in those days - quite involved in current events. I still can't read a newspaper without having the urge to mark it. 8-) Book indexing, however, seems more challenging and more difficult. The Herald went to a fulltext retrieval system, and management decided that indexing was completely unnecessary with that system in place. Joan sasjcs@unx.sas.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:30:45 -0600 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Disability? Regarding disability insurance, the statistics for a middle-aged woman needing it rather than home, health, life, or care insurance, are greater.... Now, I'm hoping that I won't need any of them, but if I'm statistically more likely to need disability insurance (assuming my policy is reputable, has decent benefits, and doesn't cost more than I can afford to put aside as a nest egg for emergencies), then it makes sense to have it. On the other hand, as I have no need for it, I don't have mortgage insurance (my parents swear they'll gladly give over the mortgage to my house should I die before it's paid off, and I have no dependents who need the house after I'm gone). What this boils down to is, consider your own situation, decide what your life requires and what you can afford. Me? I feel a bit more secure feeling that a short-term or long-term disability won't put me on welfare, thanks. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:09:08 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing Thank you all for your answers regarding newspaper indexing. It would seem that full text retrieval and the attendant search capabilities are possible for many of the large newspapers, and therefore such newspapers would not be in the least interested in indexers. But, a large BUT .... that leaves a fertile ground for local newspapers, community newspapers, that are not in a position to use high tech alternatives. Such newspapers have a wealth of local information, and might profit from an index, if only for historical material. That might be a suitable project for someone interested in the community, although maybe not a particularly well-rewarded (financially) one. Just something that occurred to me, and something for history buffs and those interested in their community to keep in mind. Might be a source of some excellent community involvement and publicity. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 19:41:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Christine T Hoppe Subject: Health Insurance? In-Reply-To: <199512192141.QAA31099@wilmot.unh.edu> I just wanted to ask about health insurance in general. I mean when you are a free lancer...how do you find a good insurance ppolicy? or do you recommend certain ones? I have blue cross but it is so expensive; it has just gone up again for Jan.....How do free lancers make a living ? I guess it is possible...I have a hard time with it...and receive no benefit or anything.....or retirement even....I guess i need to choose a high premium (i am young) and try to investigate and ask the right questions more.... cth@christa.unh.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 22:09:42 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Do Mi Stauber Subject: Re: Disability Insurance? Where did you all find your disability insurance?? I've talked to two different insurance agents about it, and neither of them even called me back! Then I read in Home Office Computing magazine that it's impossible to get disability for a home office worker (they think they won't be able to tell if you're disabled or not, since you're at home) and gave up. I lost two months of income this winter when I had to have surgery--it was a big deal. But I don't think disability would kick in that fast anyway, would it? I would like to know what a reasonable monthly stipend would be--when those insurance agents asked me how much I would need I had no idea whether to say my usual monthly income or less. Do Mi, stream of consciousness. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 20:43:08 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Justine Carson Subject: ASI Golden Gate Chapter Midwinter Conference Announcing the 13th Annual ASI Golden Gate Chapter Midwinter Conference: Saturday, January 27, 1996 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Holiday Inn -- San Francisco/Oakland Bay Bridge Emeryville, California BUILDING YOUR BUSINESS FOR THE MILLENIUM Learn about: Retirement planning ** Technology issues ** Accounting, Recordkeeping and Taxes ** Marketing techniques: Finding new clients and keeping old ones Explore new indexing opportunities Featuring speakers: Lillian Lee, Accountant Barbara Madel, Certified Financial Planner Lynn Moncrief, TECHindex and Docs Gale Rhoades, Independent Computer Consultant Lois Shumaker, Library Services Consultant Clifford Stoll, author of The Cuckoo's Egg and Silicon Snake Oil And a Panel of Freelance Indexers on Marketing Indexing Services: Kari Bero, Paul Kish, Anne Leach and Matthew Spence Network with fellow indexers over lunch: Choice of Teriyaki chicken, Sea Bass or Vegetable Primavera Send reservations or inquiries to Margaret Tong, 803 Pomona Ave. Albany, CA 94706 (mamtong@netcom.com) Conference fees: Before Jan. 12: ASI members -- $75 Non members -- $85 After Jan. 12: ASI members -- $85 Non members -- $95 _______________________________________________________________________________ Justine Carson jhcarson@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:15:12 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Deborah Patton Subject: Re: Newspaper Indexing As I've been reading this thread I knew I had seen an article about indexing newspapers in England and I was pretty sure I'd seen it in The Indexer, the Journal of the Society of Indexers. I've now found it: "Direct electronic access to a large clippings library" by Michael Steemson, Volume 19 No 1, April 1994, p. 19. The system they use sounded really terrific. Before the Asheville (North Carolina) Citizen-Times closed its morgue to the public, I had an opportunity to do a tiny bit of research there. I was enthralled by the filing system, the librarian, and the entire atmosphere. And I got my answer. Most newpaper morgues are now closed I believe. In my new home town, Baltimore, MD, there hasn't been access to the morgue in an extended time. Yet here I see in the classified section, the Baltimore Sun is seeking its own Webmaster. The shifting world of access... Deborah Patton DP1301@aol.com Ho, ho, ho! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:30:38 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kay Dusheck Subject: USDA course vs. Holbert's video course Could anyone illuminate me as to the benefits, comparisons, quality, timeliness, etc. of the indexing course offered by Susan Holbert? I'm interested in this because of the cost ($136.00), short time of completion (3 videos and book), and purported excellence (by Susan Holbert). Thank you in advance and eat much chocolate since 'tis the season! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:16:33 CST Reply-To: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Resent-From: "Presley, Paula" Comments: Originally-From: "John P. McCarthy" From: "Presley, Paula" Subject: FW: The Polar Express Share the Spirit '95 Campaign THIS HAS BEEN FORWARDED SEVERAL TIMES, BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE OF INTEREST TO INDEXER/LIBRARY TYPE FOLKS...FORWARD WHEREVER YOU PLEASE. THIS IS FOR REAL--I CHECKED OUT THE WEB SITE: NICE! PAULA. --------------------------- Original Message --------------------------- Dear List Members: I thought that I would pass on this message. It's a simple means of spreading a little holiday joy. Merry Christmas, etc. John McCarthy ************************************************* << Houghton Mifflin Company is sponsoring an opportunity for Internetters around the world to ... reach out to hospitalized children around the United States by taking part in The Polar Express Share the Spirit '95 Campaign (http://www.hmco.com/polarexpress). >> --------------------- Forwarded message: From: dickibus@WENDY.IBMPCUG.CO.UK (Dickibus) Sender: CATH-L@AMERICAN.EDU (Open Catholic Discussion) Reply-to: CATH-L@AMERICAN.EDU (Open Catholic Discussion) To: CATH-L@AMERICAN.EDU (Multiple recipients of list CATH-L) Date: 95-12-19 11:46:18 EST ---------- From: jthayden@PINN.NET Sent: 19 December 1995 02:27 To: Multiple recipients of list TEAMWORK Subject: The _Polar Express_ Subject: Send e-mail - Houghton Mifflin donates books to needy children Cambridge, Massachusetts ------- Forwarded Message > > How to help spread a little holiday cheer to those who may need it... > >**PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG**PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG** > >THE POLAR EXPRESS SHARE THE SPIRIT '95 CAMPAIGN >http://www.hmco.com/polarexpress > >I wanted to ask you as a member of the online communty to join an >Internet-wide campaign to share the spirit of the holiday season with >needy children. > >Over the past several months, the Internet has been unfairly criticized >by the media and the U.S. governmant as a place characterized by >inappropriate content and people of questionable morals who can do harm >to our children. We know that this does not represent the true nature >of the Net. Houghton Mifflin Company is therefore sponsoring an >opportunity for Internetters around the world to counter these >accusations and reach out to hospitalized children around the United >States by taking part in The Polar Express Share the Spirit '95 Campaign >(http://www.hmco.com/polarexpress). > > _The Polar Express_ , a Caldecott Medal-winning children's book by >Chris Van Allsburg, tells the story of a young boy who discovers that >only those who have the faith to truly believe can hear the sound of >Santa's sleigh bells. Houghton Mifflin Company is now asking everyone >who still believes in the spirit of the season -- those who can still >hear the sleigh bell ring -- to send an email message to >share_the_spirit@hmco.com explaining how they keep the holiday spirit >alive. > >For every twenty-five e-mail messages received, Houghton Mifflin Company >will donate one copy of Mr. Van Allsburg's book to a children's hospital >and contributors will be eligible to receive a free copy of The Polar >Express CD-ROM Edition courtesy of Houghton Mifflin Interactive. > >We've set a goal of goal of 25,000 messages by December 31, and have >only a few weeks left to reach it. All that's required of you is a few >minutes of your time, an e-mail message, and, like the young boy in _The >Polar Express_, the willingness to truly believe. > >Remember, send your email messages to share_the_spirit@hmco.com. For >more information, send email to info_sts@hmco.com. > >Thanks. > >Dan Maurer >Online Publishing Manager >Houghton Mifflin Interactive >http://www.hmco.com/polarexpress > ------- End of Forwarded Message ________________________________________________________________ Paula Presley FAX 816-785-4181 VOICE 816-785-4525 Associate Editor, Thomas Jefferson University Press Northeast Missouri State Univ. (Truman State University July 96) McClain Hall 111-L, 100 E. Normal St., Kirksville, MO 63501-4221 Internet: ppresley%nemomus@nemostate.edu ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:24:21 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: Disability Insurance? In-Reply-To: <9512200311.AA19394@carson.u.washington.edu> I'm fortunate enough to get disability insurance thru my day job, but still pay about $36/month for it, even at group rates. The cost varies depending on the waiting period you choose before it kicks in (I chose a 60-day wait since I should be able to cover the intervening time with sick leave and annual leave.) It would then pay 60% of my full-time salary until retirement/Social Security would kick in. For a full-time freelancer, the waiting period should be the longest that you can comfortably cover by savings, and the income level would probably be the minimum needed to cover household expenses until you're working again - like your average monthly indexing income - minus any Social Security disability benefits you would receive. Without a doubt, the best way to get disability/health insurance for a freelancer would be thru a group plan. So maybe ASI should look into disability policies that could be offered as an optional benefit to members. I know there are some professional/small business associations that offer such policies to their members; have rec'd brochures from several of them. Might be worth joining one of the associations just to qualify for the insurance. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Do Mi Stauber wrote: > Where did you all find your disability insurance?? I've talked to two > different insurance agents about it, and neither of them even called me back! > Then I read in Home Office Computing magazine that it's impossible to get > disability for a home office worker (they think they won't be able to tell if > you're disabled or not, since you're at home) and gave up. I lost two months > of income this winter when I had to have surgery--it was a big deal. But I > don't think disability would kick in that fast anyway, would it? I would like > to know what a reasonable monthly stipend would be--when those insurance > agents asked me how much I would need I had no idea whether to say my usual > monthly income or less. Do Mi, stream of consciousness. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:56:09 EST Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MS LINDA L VAN PELT Subject: subscribe Linda Van Pelt -- [ From: Linda Van Pelt * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Please enter my subscription to Index-L. My address is: HKLA33A@prodigy.com. Thank you! Linda Van Pelt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:05:44 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Stephen E. Bach" Subject: Disability insurance Do Mi Stauber said: >Where did you all find your disability insurance?? I've talked to two >different insurance agents about it, and neither of them even called me back! >Then I read in Home Office Computing magazine that it's impossible to get >disability for a home office worker (they think they won't be able to tell if >you're disabled or not, since you're at home) and gave up. I lost two months >of income this winter when I had to have surgery--it was a big deal. But I >don't think disability would kick in that fast anyway, would it? I would like >to know what a reasonable monthly stipend would be--when those insurance >agents asked me how much I would need I had no idea whether to say my usual >monthly income or less. Do Mi, stream of consciousness. In March of 1994 I got a disability policy with an agent for New England Mutual Life Insurance in Charlottesville, VA. I now pay 551.64 annually in two semi-annual payments. This gives me, until I'm 61 (at which point the benefit period drops), $1,000.00 per month for as long as five years. If I'd been willing to pay more I could have gotten benefits for the rest of my life, but I didn't think it was worth it. (Insurance is always a bet.) I told the agent what I thought I needed to get by: enough for the mortgage or rent, utility bills, and basic food. It took a few weeks for approval, but there were no hitches really. (My health insurance is a $5,000.00 deductible, essentially a catastrophic policy. $744.00 per year. This is with Golden Rule in Indiana.) Stephen Bach sbach@well.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:37:01 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Richard Evans Subject: Re: Disability Insurance? In a message dated 95-12-20 11:27:40 EST, you write: > So maybe ASI should look into >disability policies that could be offered as an optional benefit to >members. I would certainly support such a move! Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 09:47:42 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Health Insurance? At 07:41 PM 12/19/95 -0500, Christine T Hoppe wrote: >I just wanted to ask about health insurance in general. I mean when you >are a free lancer...how do you find a good insurance ppolicy? or do you >recommend certain ones? I have blue cross but it is so expensive; it has >just gone up again for Jan.....How do free lancers make a living ? I >guess it is possible...I have a hard time with it...and receive no >benefit or anything.....or retirement even....I guess i need to choose a >high premium (i am young) and try to investigate and ask the right >questions more.... A high premium is definitely more cost effective for us freelancers. We found that Blue Shield here in California was much less expensive than Blue Cross. If you have children, they have a wonderful plan just for them. I've got my 14-year-old on a 250-deductible policy now for about $40 a month, and that's after the January increase. For adults, the $2000-deductible policy is the kind of insurance that keeps you from losing everything. You still have to pay your own way when something happens, but there's a cap to it, which is reassuring. Plus, Blue Shield (and I hope other insurers) is emphasizing prevention, and allowing a yearly physical exam, covering mammograms, etc. Check around. Individual policies are not that different in cost from group policies. If you're already insured, switching companies shouldn't be too difficult. The problems come up if you have a pre-existing condition--all the more reason to find a reasonable, high-deductible, high-quality insurer, and stick with them. As for disability insurance, I have appreciated reading about what other indexers are doing. ASI did join the Council of Writers' Organizations to enable us to partake of their insurance packages, but the costs were so high that no one wanted it. As I said above, you might do better with an individual plan. Thanks for the reminder--disability insurance is something we should all have, especially those of us beginning the second half of our lives! It's great that we can keep each other informed this way! Happy Holidays to you all, Elinor Lindheimer President American Society of Indexers elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:32:40 -0800 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Roberta Horowitz Subject: Re: Disability insurance In-Reply-To: <199512201706.JAA03887@mail5> There are two professional organizations that I know of that offer disability insurance to its members: American Society of Information Science (ASIS@cni.org) As this organization deals with issues of information retrieval, information science, information seeking behavior, thesaurus develoment etc, it would be a useful organization to join. Association of Computing Machninery (ACM) Roberta Horowitz roberta@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:25:04 -0600 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Disability Insurance? Do Mi: My disability insurance kicks in after 60 days, which reduced the premiums somewhat. After that, it pays enough for food, mortgage, and essentials like that. I figured I could always get by for 2 months, but my nest egg would be severely diminished if I had to be out of work for any real length of time. BTW, my disability insurance covers disability "to index" so I could collect even if I could work somewhere else. This was a major distinction between the policy I took and one I rejected (which covered me only if I could not work AT ALL). Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:27:39 -0600 Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: Disability Insurance? Dick: ASI's membership is generally too small to qualify for such group policies, unless we get one through some organization that ASI belongs to. We currently have a health insurance policy offered through the Council of Writers Organizations, and only 2-3 members have taken advantage of it. If you find a policy we could offer, the Board would be interested in hearing a proposal, but to the best of my knowledge the Board is not actively looking for a policy for ASI members at this time. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services Champaign, IL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:01:54 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lee Ellen Brower Subject: Disability Ins Please inquire about disability insurance from your automobile insurance agent. Though states differ, companies marketing auto insurance in Colorado are required to have the ability to sell disability insurance to any person who has auto insurance with their firm. In addition, Colorado auto insurance agents are required by regulation to verbally inform their clients of this option. This product/service is often less expensive because it is a rider that is pinned onto the auto insurance. Colorado auto insurance agents do not honor the regulation described above. It is unenforceable; clients do not know that they are being underinformed; agents are not trained in the product. Therefore, a little word-of-mouth between friends may help someone. Lee Brower lbindex@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:12:51 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mrowland@AOL.COM Subject: Re: USDA course vs. Holbert's video course In a message dated 95-12-20 10:38:31 EST,Kay Dusheck writes: >Could anyone illuminate me as to the benefits, comparisons, quality, >timeliness, etc. of the indexing course offered by Susan Holbert? >I'm interested in this because of the cost ($136.00), short time of >completion (3 videos and book), and purported excellence (by Susan >Holbert). Thank you in advance and eat much chocolate since 'tis the >season! > I haven't seen Susan's video, but my understanding is that it is a video of her one-day course on indexing, which I have attended. In her workshop, Susan offers a useful introduction to indexing and gives students time to do short indexing exercises. It is only a one-day course and should be viewed as an introduction to indexing, rather than a complete course on indexing. In other words, it won't answer all your questsions about indexing, but it does encourage you to start asking the right questions. I don't think that Susan provides any follow-up or grading of excercises as part of the course. Rather than choosing Susan's course or the USDA course over each other, I'd suggest both, plus local and national ASI workshops, and and any and all other information you can obtain (books, e-mail discussions, ASI publications). Learning indexing is not something you accomplish through a single course, but rather through many difference sources and through experience. Marilyn Rowland Indexing and Writing Cape Cod, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:56:31 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: USDA course vs. Holbert's video course I recently viewed (previewed) a borrowed copy of the first tape of Holbert's video course, and was very impressed with it. As Marilyn said, you can't become a proficient indexer by watching a 3-tape video course. I was highly impressed with it as an introduction and overview. It will tell you what an indexer does, how an indexer thinks, and it begins to explain the many choices that go into choosing what to index, how to index it, wording of entries, etc. I intend to make it available to people who approach me thinking they want to become indexers, who want some exposure before committing to and ordering the USDA course. It will also be useful for giving an apprentice an overview if I should want an apprentice. Overall, I thought highly of the content of the tape. It's not a glitzy, highly professional tape production, so don't get it if that's what you're looking for. It is a basic videotape of a competent instructor delivering a workshop on indexing. So it's not fancy. But it is excellent in content -- all the basics are there. I hope this helps. As Marilyn said, you have to do a lot more than just take a class to become a good indexer. Holbert's videotaped class is a good beginning. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:08:57 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Craig Brown Subject: Making a Living To everyone who responded to my query (both publicly and privately) about making a living, Thank You. The extra-income jobs listed include doing research, technical writing, fiction writing, non-fiction writing, manuscript preparation, resume preparation, and more. These things would seem to fall in line with Nancy Mulvany's recent article in "The Indexer" that indexers are writers in a very real sense of the word. Several of you contend that one can make a living at indexing with little or no income from other sources. I find that very encouraging and wish to thank everyone who shared their thoughts. I also want to wish everyone happy holidays and the most prosperous of New Years! Craig Brown :{) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:54:28 -0500 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: USDA course vs. Holbert's video course Since I've already gotten a private inquiry for information re Holbert's address/phone, here it is, for those interested. Susan Holbert Indexing Services 24 Harris Street Waltham, MA 02154 (617) 893-0514 Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:00:24 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Ripoffs (was: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING) >I've been ripped off by publishers, but it's only happened twice in 25 years. >In both cases, it involved work I was contracted to do but was never paid for. >I agree that it's smart to protect yourself, but I wouldn't want beginners >to think this kind of ripoff is at all common. Or is it, and I've just never >had it happen? When I was just getting started, I asked a couple of long-time indexers (10 yrs. and 30 yrs., respectively) whether they'd ever been ripped off. Their answers were "never" and "once." Neither of them use contracts. For my business, I've decided to use a letter of agreement only when I'm contracting with authors. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:00:39 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Disability? >Then I mention it to a friend who I often look to for sage self-employment >advice and he jumps all over me: basically calling it the biggest insurance >rip-off since whole life. >The cost will be ~ $ 1300/yr. His arguments included things like 1) your >disability is an unlikely occurrence 2) since *they* determine when you're >really disabled they can still rip you off 3) if you do get disabled you can >get Welfare and Social Security. I should point out my friend is a business >genius but personally paranoid. Like they say: just because you're paranoid >doesn't mean they're not out to get you. First of all, I think your friend is dead wrong in saying that the insurance company determines whether you're disabled. I used to be a claims adjustor for an ins. co., and disability was determined by the claimant's own doctor. The company did have the right to get a second opinion from another local doctor, but if a dispute persisted it was settled by an arbitration board, not by the company. The kernel of truth in the rip-off theory is that many disabilities are covered by insurance you already have: your auto ins. covers disability resulting from the use of your car; in many cases (but not all), the other driver's ins. covers your disability resulting from someone else's lousy driving; homeowner's ins. includes liability coverage (which can certainly include coverage of lost earnings). OTOH, if you break your arm in your own home and can't work for several weeks, then you're simply out the money. I'm always amazed at people who say things like, "your disability is an unlikely occurrence." Of course it is. *Everything* we insure against (except death ;-) ) is an unlikely occurrence--that's the nature of insurance. Would your friend also advise you not to insure your house against loss from fire? That's a pretty unlikely occurrence, too. And before relying on Welfare and Social Security, I would check your eligibility. I'm not at all sure that every person and every disability would be covered. In fact, I highly doubt it. > >My question is this: what are people doing about this issue? I'm aware that >some people who have employees or perhaps are incorporated are required to >have Workman's Comp; I'm directing this only to those who are sole >proprietorships and have the option to get it or not get it. I suspect I'm not doing anything about it! I'm glad you brought it up, because I should think about it. Thanks. Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:01:00 -0600 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Health Insurance? >I just wanted to ask about health insurance in general. I mean when you >are a free lancer...how do you find a good insurance ppolicy? One thing worth checking out is professional organizations. Although this is not available in all states, professional orgs. often offer group ins. rates to their members. For many orgs., the only requirement for membership is paying the dues. So it might be very worthwhile to pay $50 or $100 for the difference between Blue Cross rates and group rates. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:06:23 +0000 Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Ruth Bessant Subject: disability insurance I got private (as opposed to group) disability insurance 11 years ago after a bout of chronic fatigue syndrome. I was working for an organization that had no disability coverage, so when my sick leave and vacation time was used up, I had no income. It was very very scarey! Since then, I have been unable to work for two other extended periods. Yes, indeed, even young energetic people can get knocked down by disabling illnesses, not to mention things like car accidents and even pregnancies with complications. You have many choices about disability coverage that influence the cost. Several have been mentioned in previous postings: - how long you have to be disabled before you begin to get benefit payments - whether you are covered only for total disability or for inability to do your "own occupation" - how much you get paid (max is usually 60% of pre-disability income) - how many years of benefits you get (a certain number, to age 65, or life) - whether there are cost of living provisions to increase your monthly benefit check after you are disabled - whether there are provisions to add to how much you would get paid (as your income increases, you probably will want to increase the benefit that would be paid to you if/when you are disabled) - whether you continue to get partial payments if you are able to return to work part-time Social Security only covers *total* disability -- unable to work at *any* occupation -- that lasts more than 1 year and is expected to continue. As mentioned in other postings, it is very hard to qualify for Social Security disability and it takes a long time (with no income in the meantime!) The determination of whether or not you are *really* disabled is made by the insurance company based on information from your doctor, plus interviews and other information they gather from you. I have been lucky that my insurance company (Paul Revere) hasn't given me any hassles at all about questioning my situation. One other thing... If you pay the premiums for your disability insurance, your benefit checks are not taxable income. If your employer pays even part of your premiums, the benefits are taxable. I don't know anything, though, about freelancers/self-employed people getting disability insurance. I got mine while I was ordinarily employed. Sorry to go on so much about a topic that isn't really germane to the list, but I thought my experience might be helpful. Ruth Bessant bessantr@acad.ripon.edu