From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 7-JAN-1996 13:57:42.66 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9512B" Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 08:11:11 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9512B" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:25:08 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@aol.com Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 95-12-07 11:45:49 EST, you write: >1) I love my Mac (LCIII), but? Is there anyone out there making a living >running Mac & Macrex via either Soft PC or Soft Windows? > Should I just bite the bullet and get DOS/ Windows hardware? > Welcome Aboard! I was *always* a Mac lover (and still am) but realized that the rest of the business world uses IBM-compatible machines. When I went independent in September, I bit the bullet and bought an IBM-compatible machine. I still use the Mac for Quicken (bookkeeping), personal stuff, and road trips. I've used SoftPC in a previous life as a computer system manager and was never happy with it's performance. It emulates a 286 machine, last I knew (although I've heard some indexers say that they believe that a 286 machine is sufficient for indexing software). >2) I'm in the market for new word processing software. Is there a more often >desired form by publishers? Thoughts on WordPerfect/Word/Claris Works. > It seems that MicroSoft Word V6 is most widely used; it may not be widely loved, but widely used. Publishers that I've spoken to want the Index in MS Word or ASCII. Just about *any* software can produce an ASCII file. It seems that Claris Works is not commonly known. >3) My degrees are in medicine and science and I hope to find a niche or crack >an entry in that area. I've heard some vague talk of >mentoring/apprenticeship. Any thoughts? Or are "cold-calls" >still the road most travelled? As others have said on this list, the beauty of more indexers coming on board is that we get more publicity; more publishers become aware of the value of professional indexers and the service that we provide. So it seems that indexers with any area of expertise are in high demand and will find a niche in that area of expertise. There's great value in networking. Come to ASI meetings and the annual conference in Denver, CO next May. You'll make valuable contacts with other indexers, who may be willing to pass work to you when they're too busy. I've gotten several jobs from referrals from other, more experienced indexers (to whom I will be eternally grateful). Although there may not be formal mentoring/apprenticeship relationships, there are definitely informal ones. I think that you'll find that other indexers on this list will be willing to critique an index for you, and provide feedback, if you ask them to. I haven't made any cold-calls *yet*. BTW, have you taken the USDA course in Basic Indexing? You didn't ask about it, but I'd highly recommend it. I took it, and it helped me tremendously. Peg Mauer Communication Link ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:25:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Isawriter@aol.com Subject: Making a living ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a recent post, Don Glassman touches on the subject of making a living from indexing. I find that an interesting question. I am doing some indexes now, and I can see that as I learn more and learn how to do things more efficiently, I will earn more from indexing than I do now. But right now, I am not capable of being the sole support of our household. It's all I can do to support our two parakeets. I know that many indexers do editing to supplement their incomes. I'd be interested in knowing what other kinds of things indexers do to bring in the bucks when indexing projects are few and far between. Reply to me here or offlist if you prefer. (As always, I will reply personally to all respondents. In this case I might send a summary of the results back to the list, with anonymity of course.) TIA, Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:25:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Isawriter@aol.com Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Don Glassman wrote: >>Is there anyone out there making a living running Mac & Macrex via either Soft PC or Soft Windows?<< No, yes, no, yes, no. Which is to say I have a Macintosh (Performa 631, which is a 68040 chip with 8 MB RAM, running at 33mhz). I use SoftPC (not Sof Windows) to run Cindex (not Macrex). And while I am not making a living at it, I am giving it my best shot. >>I'm in the market for new word processing software. Is there a more often desired form by publishers? Thoughts on WordPerfect/Word/Claris Works.<< I use Claris Works. Couple with the MacLink translation software that came bundled with the Performa, I have had no problems creating files for users. I usually send a WordPerfect file and a Rich Text File straight out of Cindex. I am pleased with Claris Works. It isn't as feature rich as Word or WordPerfect, but it is adequate for my needs. >>Or are "cold-calls" still the road most travelled?<< If you are cold-calling, it helps to have a sample index to send your prospective client. Some credo like the Hyppocratic Oath (but maybe a bit longer) might be appropriate. Welcome to the community. Best of luck, and keep us informed! Craig Brown ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:26:28 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@aol.com Subject: Re: Org names ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi everyone! This is Do Mi Stauber. I'm new to the Net and excited to be here. I've been indexing social sciences/humanities scholarly books and textbooks, using Macrex, for ten years. I would always include organization names in both English and the original language, with see alsos to the language used in the text (consistently, one hopes; if not I alert the editor and get them to decide which they want). Occasionally an editor forbids me to do this because of space limitations, but I think it's important and try to talk them into it. Acronyms, too. English in case that's how someone (especially a non-speaker of the original language) has heard of it; original language out of respect and accuracy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:04:54 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Gale Rhoades wrote: <....> >>2) I'm in the market for new word processing software. Is there a more often >>desired form by publishers? Thoughts on WordPerfect/Word/Claris Works. > >According to our records, most of the Macintosh using indexers are using >Microsoft Word. It has the ability to create WordPerfect and other file >formats and is an established standard on the Mac. I use CINDEX on SoftPC and Mac Microsoft Word plus MacLinkPlus Translators (MacLinkPlus is included with more recent Mac System releases, you then buy a more complete suite of translations) which allows me to convert to/from many MANY different document formats. Not been stumped by a client yet. Some of them actually prefer Mac disks, anyway. Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:05:06 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Don, With degrees in medicine and science, you shouldn't have any trouble. I have a degree in chemistry, and index primarily in the physical sciences, and I constantly hear publishers say they can't find enough good indexers willing to handle the physical science (as opposed to life science/medicine) materials. On another note, publishers hold on to your resume for a long time, so you can't expect instant results. They're also impossible about cold calls. I send mail, cold calling, so to speak, but I've given up following up with phone calls. They just don't call back or are unavailable. Even if you've got the person's name, rather than just a title. It doesn't pan out. You probably need either a sample index (doesn't matter whether paid or unpaid work -- how do they know?) or a list of books indexed to give you credibility. I don't think a resume alone is enough. Also, in my cover letter, I say ... "among my clients are ..." So I think you have to do something to indicate that you're not a total newcomer, despite the fact that you are! For you, a sample index, or a few pages of various of them, identified by book title, perhaps of varying science areas, would be helpful. Hope this helps. I would also second what Peg Mauer said about networking, getting to know indexers ... and what better way to get to know them than to come to meetings of your local ASI group, or the annual meeting, which is in Denver this year - May 16-18. I'd encourage ASI membership, if you're not already a member. The newsletter, KeyWords, is excellent! Janet Perlman (jperlman@aol.com) Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:41:42 ECT Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Regarding what others have said about cold calls, I hear people trying them, but I have no faith in them. The index is too close to the end of the project for an editor to take a chance on someone untried. Word of mouth references are MUCH better. How to get them? Try to find someone to work with who is willing to help you get started. As Janet said, we are always looking for good indexers in our own subject areas, so we can recommend them to our clients. Networking is your best route for this. Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:42:20 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: Org names ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >My problem is space. I think I'm going to have to do some heavy editing, so >if I need to, should I get rid of the double postings with the English name >first, and just have the ones with the German name first? > >Leaving out the English names altogether would be a disservice to the reader, >I think. How critical is it to have entries for both the German and English >titles? > >An example: Reichsvertretung der deutschen Juden (National Representation of >German Jews). A mouthful, yes? > In a book intended for an English-speaking audience (given that space is tight), I would include only the English translations, but I would add an explanatory note to that effect at the top of the index. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:42:30 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >1) I love my Mac (LCIII), but? Is there anyone out there making a living >running Mac & Macrex via either Soft PC or Soft Windows? > Should I just bite the bullet and get DOS/ Windows hardware? Welcome, Don! Before you chuck your Mac, consider buying HyperIndex, which is dedicated indexing software for the Mac. I've just completed my first index using HyperIndex, and I'm thrilled with it. For more info, contact the author, Andre De Tienne at adetienn@indycms.iupui.edu or cpeirce@indyvax.iupui.edu. I'm running HyperIndex on a IIsi with System 7.1, but Andre should be able to tell you what to expect with an LCIII. I hasten to add that if you haven't yet done any indexing, you should probably try your hand at it--using whatever word-processing software you have--before making any investments. You could spend a bundle and discover that you don't even like indexing. Good luck! BTW, for others who are interested, I plan to write up a proper report on HyperIndex as soon as I have a break in my work (sometime this month, I think). Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:42:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Angela Howard Subject: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'm curious to find out whether all of you perceive indexing as a right- or left-brained task, or a combination of both. I've always been extremely logical, organized, and detail-oriented, and yet I also have a love of creating art and poetry. But I keep hearing time and time again that people are predominantly left-brained or right-brained -- that "word people" are not very good "picture people" and vice versa. I struggle a great deal to incorporate this two seemingly-opposite loves of mine, but have not been very successful. I usually end up with a "left-brained" job and "right-brained" hobbies and feeling rather disjointed. I'm currently taking the USDA indexing course, and am very attracted to the process of indexing. (Right now I'm a technical writer.) Do you perceive indexing as being predominantly left-brained? Are there a lot of you who also have strong abilities in the arts or music? It seems to me that there are a lot of left-brained things about indexing, but there are some aspects of it where it seems you're making connections between pieces of information that go beyond the straightforward and logical. Angela (attempting to start a thread that's hopefully somewhat on-topic) __________________________________________________________ Angela M. Howard, Technical Writer /\ /\ /\ | | NaviSoft, Inc. (805)882-2350 x126 /--\ / \ / \ |----| angela@navisoft.com / \/ \/ \| | __________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:56:09 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Anne Simard Subject: Library automation software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hello INDEX-L friends, In my working place, we are using the MINISIS database management system supported by an HP3000 which integrates a multilingual thesaurus management module. We are looking for a new system that would run on a micro-computer (PC). Of course, the integrated software library automation system we want, must supports our bilingual thesaurus (french and english) and our bibliographic database which contains over 70000 records. Is there someone who knows products that satisfy these requirements?? I'm desperatly waiting for your suggestions... Anne Simard Centre for Information Technology Innovation Integrated Service for Information Resources ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:56:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Simpson Subject: Indexing Software ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi Everyone! I'm another newbie here, having just recently joined ASI. I'm currently enrolled in the USDA course, and along with the course materials I received advertisements and order forms for 3 software packages: Macrex, Cindex, and wINDEX. I had heard of the first 2, but have not used or seen any of them in use. Since I'm just getting started, I would not be worrying about buying this software yet except for the fact that as an indexing student, I can get a $200 discount on Macrex if I buy it while I'm enrolled in the course. Everyone seems to have their favorite program, but has anyone used both Macrex and Cindex? How do they compare and why did you choose the one you did? Whatever I buy, I plan to try to use it on a Mac, so I was glad to see the recent postings on that subject. Thanks for the help, Lin Simpson lisimpson@scitor.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:05:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Linda Simpson Subject: Database Indexers?? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi Everyone, Just wondering if this group includes any database indexers. If so, how did you get started in it? Did you do traditional back-of-the-book indexes first, or did you come into it from the computer field? Lin Simpson lisimpson@scitor.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:05:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "C.JACOBS" Subject: Re: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of Fri, 08 Dec 1995 15:48:11 EST ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I suspect that to be a really good indexer you have to have both qualities -- thinking laterally is very important for effective reference/retrieval work, and equally for the storage/arrangement of information. If people were automatons it might be possible to meet their information retrieval needs by simply being logical. They are not, however. Think about how many scientists and researchers are also musically or artistically creative. The either/or construct is just that: a construct. It is useful for some kinds of analysis, but it has to be borne in mind that most people are not either/ors. So enjoy both sides and I bet if you paid attention you would see where your left brain informs the work of your right brain and gives you creative pleasure in your indexing (and other "logical" kinds of work). Christine Jacobs Montreal incj@musicb.mcgill.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:06:14 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Australian Society of Indexers Subject: Aust Soc of Indexers: eNewsletter available ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Australian Society of Indexers eNewsletter As part of membership, AusSI is now making the Newsletter available by email. The price is $35 AUD per year sent to: Honorary Secretary AusSI GPO Box 1251 Melbourne Vic Australia 3001 Make the cheque or money order out to the 'Australian Society of Indexers'. Conditions: "I agree not to copy or redistribute any issues of the newsletter in whole or in part without express permission from the Society." If you are renewing, ignore the parts about qualifications etc. Any email applications, send to me at aussi@zeta.org.au and I will forward them. Cheers Dwight Webmaster AusSI ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- AusSI Application for Membership Please fill out the following form. Title: Name: Private address: Street: City: Postcode: Country: Telephone: Fax: Email address: Home Page URL: Business address: Street: City: Postcode: Country: Telephone: Fax: Email address: Home Page URL: Mail to: Private Business Qualifications: Present office or appointment: Subject specialities: Have you prepared indexes in any of these subject fields, or in any other subject fields? (please list) The Society has provision for the Registration of Indexers by means of submission of an index (preferably a published index) for assessment by our Panel of Assessors. If you are interested in further details see the notes for applicants. If you do not wish immediately to seek Registration, are you interested in accepting commissions for indexing work? (NB. Only Registered Indexers will receive Society endorsement.) Yes No Year Subscription 1996 Subscriptions are available from 31 January 1996. Charge Zone: Melbourne metropolitan (phone area code 03), Sydney metropolitan (phone area code 02), ACT Region Year Full Member $AU40.00 Year Student $AU20.00 Rest of Australia Year Full Member $AU30.00 Year Student $AU15.00 New Zealand Year Full Member $AU35.00 Year Student $AU17.50 Rest of the World (newsletter only) Year Full Member $AU35.00 Year Student $AU17.50 [ ]Please tick if you wish to receive the Newsletter by email - ideal for overseas members Conditions: "I agree not to copy or redistribute any issues of the newsletter in whole or in part without express permission from the Society." [ ] Please tick if you are a student [ ] Please tick if a receipt is required Date cheque/postal order sent: Once you have submitted this form, send a cheque or postal order made out to the Australian Society of Indexers to: The Honorary Secretary Australian Society of Indexers GPO Box 1251 Melbourne, Vic. 3001 Australia ------- Dwight Walker Webmaster Australian Society of Indexers +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w) W-F URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:06:23 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Elinor Lindheimer Subject: Re: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Angela Howard asked about right- and left-brained people/tasks and indexing. In her ASI oral history interviews, Dorothy Thomas discovered a remarkable affinity among indexers, a majority of whom seem to either play or appreciate music. Indexing is both craft and art. It takes a whole brain to do this sort of work. Sometimes one part or the other gets tired or annoyed or even quite fried, but the final result can be satisfying to both. Of course, some of this is subject-dependent. But even the most technical, seemingly tedious subject matter can turn into an elegant, esthetically satisfying index--especially if you're not under too much time pressure. Good luck! Elinor Lindheimer elinorl@mcn.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:06:33 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: AusSI WEBIX for DOS available - Web indexing prize ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Copies of WEBIX are available for download from the AusSI Web site: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi/webixdos.zip Save it to disk then unzip it. To use it: indtohtm - replace source and target with the INDEX and HTML file This is convert the text index from CINDEX/Macrex etc into HTML. It works very nicely. Credits: Tim Craven, Ontario, Canada - many thanks for his Pascal skills... Cheers Dwight Webmaster, AusSI ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w), fax (work) +61-2-4383729 My Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~dwalker AusSI Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:06:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Pacific Northwest Distribution List ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I am keeper of the e-mail distribution list for the developing Pacific Northwest Chapter, ASI, which covers Washington and Oregon, plus anybody else who's interested. If you are interested in being added to the email list, thus insuring that you are notified of regional activities regardless of whether or not you belong to ASI, please send an email message to cweaver@u.washington.edu. Please include both your email address and your snail mail address and phone number. (Washingtonians and some Oregonians - you know who you are! - if you were on my Washington Indexers list, you're already included in the PNW list.) Also, check out the PNW/ASI Home Page at http://alexia.lis.uiuc.edu/~bero/ASI/ This site, developed by Kari Bero, features resources of interest to indexers in the Pacific Northwest. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:06:55 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi, Angela! Like you, I have a strong background in technical writing, and I enjoy indexing. I also have a strong artistic side, which led me to act in theatrical productions, write poetry and short stories, and dabble in various artistic pursuits. In answer to your question about which side of the brain indexers use most, I think you'll discover that many (if not most) professional indexers have developed left-brained (analytical) skills as well as right-brained (creative) skills. Like music, indexing is an art. When I deliver indexing workshops, I make the following analogy: When I was a kid, I took flute lessons and eventually became good enough to play in high school band concerts, etc.; however, I did not (and never will) have any natural musical ability. I learned the "mechanics" of reading music and playing the flute, and I knew I didn't have the talent it would take to be a professional musician. I did, however, develop a wonderful appreciation for good music. Well ... indexing is a lot like that. Some people are able to acquire some indexing skills, but they lack real talent for indexing. Other people have a natural aptitude for it and can become virtuoso indexers. And many people, even if they don't have any natural aptitude for indexing, can at least develop an appreciation for a quality index. Happy holidays and happy indexing .... Lori ******************************************************************** Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4011 / Home: 303-567-9533 ******************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:07:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandy Sadow Subject: indexing legal publications ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I would like to contact indexers who specialize in legal or law-related publications. I am interested in doing freelance work in this area and I am looking for advice on how to proceed. Sandy Sadow ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:07:14 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Gerry McKiernan Subject: Participatory WWW Database Development and Resource Classification ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- As part of a planned enhancement of CyberStacks(sm) - my recently-announced, demonstration prototype 'virtual' Science and Technology Reference Collection, I plan to initiate a program of 'Participatory Database Development' (PDD) that will involve two major components: 1) Solicitation from a defined community of users, recommednations of WWW/Internet resources they believe should be included and/or added to a section of the CyberStacks(sm) collection If appropriate funding is provide, we plan to fully develop the Agriculture (S) of CyberStacks(sm) by organizing within its framework, all _significant_ WWW/Internet resources of a Reference nature that that are document-like objects (e.g. serial or monographic works) and/or discrete resource (e.g a WWW research service (e.g. MathSearch)). During the construction of this section, we will contact appropriate potential users of this section through relevant listserv and newsgroup broadcasts. requesting suggestions of resources for inclusion and incorporation. Those resource suggested by participants will be reviewed and given the highest priority for inclusion within CyberStacks(sm). For those resources which are requested but not currently available, we will re-search the Net for such a resource or one of a similar nature, and incorporate it if found. If not found to be available, we will contact an appropriate publisher as recommend that such a work be considered for Web publication 2) During and after this solicitation process, we will request that users suggest the most specific category _or_ categories within Cyber Stacks(sm) where a recommended or incorporated resource may be classified, or may _also_ be classified. The intent of this component is to place resources where users themselves would expect to find them as well as in places where librarians believe they _should_ be classified. In placing resources in more than one category we will be embarking on a further development of CyberStacks(sm) that makes greater use of the hypertext functionally of the Web browsers themselves and the versatility of the CyberStacks(sm) scheme. In preparation for these planned enhancements and studies, I am interested in specific projects of a similar nature or other studies that have involved 'participatory database development'. I am particularly interested in studies of user-designated, or user- defined or user-enhanced categorization of resources, preferably within a hypermedia environment. I would also appreciate any and all comments, thoughts or reactions to this approach. If you have not already visited the CyberStacks(sm) prototype, please pay a visit; the NEW URL for CyberStacks(sm) is: http://www.public.iastate/edu/~CYBERSTACKS/ Virtually, Gerry McKiernan Curator, CyberStacks(sm) Iowa State University Ames IA 50011 gerrymck@iastate.edu "The Future IS Now!" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:07:28 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Rachel Rice Subject: long org. names and Mac app ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Joanne wrote: >Here's an interesting one for the list. I have a book on the treatment of >Jews in Germany in the 1920s-1930s (very depressing, but interesting), and >the Germans love to have long names for political organizations. The autho= r >starts out with the German name, followed in parentheses by the English nam= e. > >My problem is space. I think I'm going to have to do some heavy editing, s= o >if I need to, should I get rid of the double postings with the English name >first, and just have the ones with the German name first? > >Leaving out the English names altogether would be a disservice to the reade= r, >I think. How critical is it to have entries for both the German and Englis= h >titles? I just indexed a book on Greek Jewry in the 20th century and had a similiar problem with the Greek names. I'm a beginner, this was only my second index, and I had a lot of help from the index-l people. I still made a lot of mistakes that I didn't see until after I sent out the index. What I did was give the English name with the Greek name in parentheses, and a cross ref from the Greek name, thus: Organization for the Relief and Rehabilitation of the Jews in Greece (Organism=F3s Perith=E1lpseos kai Apokatast=E1seos Israel=EDton= Ell=E1dos-OPAIE), 79, 85 and Organism=F3s Perith=E1lpseos kai Apokatast=E1seos Israel=EDton= Ell=E1dos-OPAIE. See Organization for the Relief and Rehabilitation of the Jews in Greece (Organism=F3s Perith=E1lpseos kai Apokatast=E1seos Israel=EDton Ell=E1dos-OP= AIE) and OPAIE. See Organization for the Relief and Rehabilitation of the Jews in Greece (Organism=F3s Perith=E1lpseos kai Apokatast=E1seos Israel=EDton Ell=E1dos-OPAIE) I don't know if this was the best way to do this, and it did take up an awful lot of space, and probably no one will ever look up the organizations by their Greek names, but I did it, for better or worse. Maybe others will comment on whether this was a good or bad method so we can both learn! If it was good, maybe you can use it, if it was bad, then we will know not t= o! Don wrote: >1) I love my Mac (LCIII), but? Is there anyone out there making a living >running Mac & Macrex via either Soft PC or Soft Windows? > Should I just bite the bullet and get DOS/ Windows hardware? > >2) I'm in the market for new word processing software. Is there a more ofte= n >desired form by publishers? Thoughts on WordPerfect/Word/Claris Works. I have a Mac and have been using HyperIndex, a terrific program that runs under Hypercard 2.1 or better. I've used it for my first two indexes and for my index lessons for the USDA course and have been happy with it except for its slowness and lack of spellchecker (both the fault of Hypercard, not of HyperIndex.) You can get it by contacting its author, Andre De Tienne, at ADETIENN@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU. I'd appreciate it if you would say I sent you! I have been hearing that for embedded indexes, Framemaker is becoming the standard choice for Mac but I have no experience with it. Pagemaker and Word both do very nice embedded indexes. Just about any up-to-date Mac app will open and save to any other file type, regardless of origianal app or operating system. Hope this helps, and that I have not steered either of you in the wrong direction. Rachel Rachel Rice Martha's Vineyard Island rachelr@tiac.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:07:38 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@compuserve.com> Subject: Hotels in Denver ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi, all. Just a quick "heads up" before I call it a nite .... I'm sure that ASI has reserved a block of rooms at the Executive Towers in Denver for the '96 ASI Annual Conference. However, if you are planning to attend the conference in Denver, it might be a good idea to be sure you reserve your hotel room as early as possible. I just heard on the evening news that, due to the likelihood that the Okalahoma bombing trial will be held in Denver and there will be a lot of media coverage, hotel rooms are likely to be very scarce in Denver during May, June, and July. Happy holidays and happy indexing .... Lori Lathrop Chair, ASI-Colorado Chapter ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:07:48 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@aol.com Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'd like to add my perspective on cold calls when starting out as a freelancer. (Of course, every situation is different.) They worked for me - I sent out about 130 letters over 5 months starting a year ago (after calling first to make sure the company used freelance indexers and to get the name of the person who deals with them.) I included my resume and the first two pages of a sample index, since I had no client list. I now have 9 clients from those letters; all have given me more than one assignment and I consider them to be good clients. I also have about the same number of clients to which I was referred by other indexers. Some are good clients, but in a few cases, I've never gotten a second call. I suspect I'm at the bottom of the list in those cases and will only get called if they run out of indexers again. I've also heard of people who have sent out 300 letters. I would have sent out more but in many cases of publishers I would like to work for, I couldn't get past voice mail to talk to a real person and no one returned my 'cold call' messages, as Janet mentioned. Luckily, enough did (and BTW, Craig, I'm making a living at indexing, by my definition at least.) I hope this is of some encouragement to the freelancers starting out, Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * 318 Main St. # 20 * 201-514-1710 * Madison, NJ 07940 * USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:08:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: IRCINDEX@aol.com Subject: CINDEX Seminars ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Indexing Research of Rochester, NY, is pleased to announce the following two CINDEX SEMINARS* to be held on JANUARY 18 & 19, 1996, from 9 a.m.-4 p.m. LOCATION: Georgia College - Macon Campus Conference Center Macon, GA Thursday, Jan. 18: CINDEX BASICS: Learn operating fundamentals plus tips and tricks to increase your productivity. Suitable for the new user, or for more experienced users wishing to review their work patterns. Friday, Jan. 19: BEYOND BASIC INDEXING: Explore approaches and techniques for editing, revising, combining and creating spin-off indexes. The use of "patterns" and "groups" will be featured. Geared toward the more experienced CINDEX user. COST: $115 per day or $210 for both days For further information and registration form please contact: INDEXING RESEARCH email: IRCINDEX@aol.com voice: (716)461-5530 fax: (716)442-3924 *Co-sponsored by Georgia College Library and Georgia College's Dept. of Continuing Education and Public Services (Georgia College staff and faculty are eligible for reduced registration fees - Please contact Indexing Research for information) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:08:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Wildefire@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 95-12-08 18:01:52 EST, Angela wrote: >I'm curious to find out whether all of you perceive indexing as a right- or >left-brained task, or a combination of both. I've always been extremely >logical, organized, and detail-oriented, and yet I also have a love of >creating art and poetry. >I'm currently taking the USDA indexing course, and am very attracted to the >process of indexing. (Right now I'm a technical writer.) Do you perceive >indexing as being predominantly left-brained? Are there a lot of you who >also have strong abilities in the arts or music? I'm so glad you posted this question, Angela! Now, I know that I'm not the only one out there that is sort of schizoid in this regard. While reveling in technical detail, delighting in spinning chains of logic and and analyzing everything beyond reason, I too have always pursued right-brain type hobbies. I guess you could say that I have a bit of artistic ability since I've won a few (visual) art awards, play keyboard (at least, try to) and drums, and formerly was a professional dancer. And what kind of indexing do I do (and prefer)? Technical and scientific--the more hard-core techie, the better. On a given day, I'm equally happy sitting at my computer keyboard cranking out index entries for quantum dots or ATP hydrolysis or "jamming" at my keyboard synthesizer with CDs on the stereo. You just can't get any more "right-brained" than the blues. When the foot gets to stomping while you're playing and swaying, you are far into right brain territory. ;-D > It seems to me that there >are a lot of left-brained things about indexing, but there are some aspects >of it where it seems you're making connections between pieces of information >that go beyond the straightforward and logical. I think that this is the weird thing about indexing as an activity per se. There is the intense left-brain process of analyzing the text and structuring the index, plus the right brain sort of holographic process of making those insightful connections you speak of. I say "holographic" because there seems to be a multi-dimensional, holistic aspect to this activity and to the index itself. Maybe it's why indexing is so satisfying to those of us who seem to live in both halves of our brains with equal comfort. Let's take this a quantum jump further and suggest that indexing is a "whole-brained" activity. There was an article last summer or spring (I think in the NY Times or Time magazine) about the BRAIN itself as indexer!! In other words, the mind naturally indexes all input, making correlations as needed when retrieving discrete bits of information (e.g., stripes + horse-shaped animal ----> zebra). I think it would be absolutely wild to see a PET scan of an indexer's brain activity while indexing--the whole thing could be lit up like that globe in Times Square that slides down the pole in the countdown to New Year's! ;-D Or imagine that structure that allows hemispheres of the brain to communicate--the corpus callosum, I think it's called. Why it'd be like an eight-lane highway lit up with the tail lights of nervous impulses zapping between the hemispheres... I'm getting carried away here so I'd best stop. BTW, I used to be a tech writer too and noticed this same dual-hemisphere aspect to tech writing as well, especially when I used to have to reverse engineer schematics to craft deathless prose about how an electronic circuit works. Synaptically yours, Lynn Moncrief TECHindex & Docs ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:09:06 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 15:42 8/12/95 ECT, Angela wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I'm curious to find out whether all of you perceive indexing as a right- or >left-brained task, or a combination of both. I've always been extremely >logical, organized, and detail-oriented, and yet I also have a love of >creating art and poetry. But I keep hearing time and time again that people >are predominantly left-brained or right-brained -- that "word people" are >not very good "picture people" and vice versa. I struggle a great deal to >incorporate this two seemingly-opposite loves of mine, but have not been >very successful. I usually end up with a "left-brained" job and >"right-brained" hobbies and feeling rather disjointed. As an erstwhile psychologist, I can assure you that the supposed right-brain/left-brain distinctions made by the popular media are wild exaggerations of the observed facts. The most clear-cut findings are that people with left brain damage tend to lose the ability to create and/or understand language, while some people with right brain damage retain the ability to speak and understand but produce non-emotive, 'dead', speech. There may be some spatial skills lost with right brain damage too. Even this is a generalisation over many thousands of cases, some of which show no effect, some with opposite patterns, etc. Attempts to group people into right-brain/left-brain categories are usually made by people who are selling something which depends on the distinction. Many other studies show that talents tend to go together: that is, people who are good at art are usually good at music, writing, organising, etc - this is a factor called 'general intelligence'. Insofar as indexing calls on many diverse skills it is probably a good indicator of 'general intelligence'. Jonathan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:52:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: HyperIndex ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Several people have contacted me off-list to ask me about HyperIndex. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I will be posting a report to Index-l later this month. I prefer to not to make comments now, which I think would be too hasty. I will only say now that I think HyperIndex is an excellent program, and I'm happy I bought it. More details in a week or so. Until then, please be patient. If you can't wait to get details about the program, please write directly to the author, Andre De Tienne at CPEIRCE@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Life is good. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | Copyright 1995. All rights reserved. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:52:11 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: free-lance opportunity ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Subject: Free Lance- Medical Subject Indexer Needed Medical Association Management firm/Medical Publisher seeks individual with experience in indexing medical abstracts by topic, keywords, etc. Currently seek individual who can index over 1000 urological abstracts by mid-January 1996. No relocation necessary Please forward background/experience and fee for services to index approximately 1100 abstracts to CCapri@slackinc.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:01:18 ECT Reply-To: becohen@prairienet.org Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Barbara E. Cohen" Subject: Denver ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Regarding the Denver ASI conference, I have received an excellent guide to Denver from the Denver Metro Convention and Vistors Bureau. It is a magazine with lots of detailed information about Denver and environs (hotels, transportation, sightseeing, eating, maps, and more)--the maps are especially helpful, and our hotel is clearly in the heart of things! To request the 1995/96 Denver and Colorado Official Visitors Guide, write to: Denver Metro Convetion and Visitors Bureau 225 W. Colfax Denver, CO 80202 (303) 892-1112 Be sure to mention that you are coming in for the ASI convention! Hope to see many of you there! Barbara -- Barbara E. Cohen Indexing & Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:01:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 95-12-08 18:01:52 EST, you write: >I'm curious to find out whether all of you perceive indexing as a right- or >left-brained task, or a combination of both. ...friendly snip... >Do you perceive >indexing as being predominantly left-brained? Are there a lot of you who >also have strong abilities in the arts or music? Angela, I'm also a technical writer. I suspect that I'm right-brained, because I started out as a computer science major, and learned that writing operating systems was *painful*! Once I switched over to being an English/Writing major, I was a *much* happier person! ;-) Interesting question; I suspect that there's some of each in indexing. Indexing is an art, but indexers have to be thorough, good at analyzing, methodical, and logical. I have *no* abilities in the arts or music! My husband won't even let me hum around the house! ;-) Peg Mauer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:01:44 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: DStaub11@aol.com Subject: Re: Is Indexing a Right- or Left-Brained Task? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Re: Is Indexing a Right-brained or left-brained task Angela: I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm also a bit confused about whether I'm a left- or right-brained person. I really think I'm both. I've always been very verbal, good at memorizing and linear thinking, and also good at drawing and design. I picture time in analog form (you know that test, do you translate the clock picture into digital form or vice versa), which would seem to say I'm visual; to understand something I have to either see it in a picture or say it in words, depending on what it is...Anyway, I think indexing uses both sides of our brains. I notice myself doing very intuitive leaping and connecting, but also categorizing little details. I've noticed that although I can be mentally creative, I'm more comfortable starting with something--I can't make leaps across space (like my 8-year-old daughter can). Indexing is creative work, but you aren't faced with a blank page, you're faced with someone else's text. You have to be able to play with concepts but also to pay attention to punctuation. I'd love to hear what other indexers think. I've been feeling needs for creative expression that aren't filled by indexing, and trying to figure out how my mind works and what area to focus on, so this is very interesting to me. What jobs and hobbies have you tried? Do you think you'll end up combining several different areas or do you want to integrate into one? If you want to correspond more in depth, Angela, e-mail me! Do Mi Stauber 541-461-5085 DStaub11@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 11:47:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sandra Henderson Subject: Re: Database Indexers?? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Just wondering if this group includes any database indexers. If so, > how did you get started in it? Did you do traditional back-of-the-book > indexes first, or did you come into it from the computer field? Yes, there are some database indexers among us - I've never tried my hand at back-of-book indexing, although like a few other database indexers I think it's something I'd like to learn to do "when I've got time". I'm a librarian, and got into it via an association with the MEDLINE database - when we decided to set up an Australian supplement locally, although we contract out the indexing, we also had to learn to do it ourselves, so we could train the contractors - we were fortunate in having an ex-medline-indexer working here at the time who could train us, and the doco produced by the National Library of Medicine to support their indexers is also a great help. ---..____________ Sandra Henderson / . ) \\ Manager / ) || Nat. Bibliographic Publications | |/ _) || National Library of Australia |/ - \ / \ || CANBERRA ACT 2600 (Australia) /|| | |\_____\ /\ Ph 61 6 2621523 \\ | | | | Fax 61 6 2731180 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Email shenders@nla.gov.au ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 11:47:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Annblum@aol.com Subject: Re: Hotels in Denver ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In response to Lori's posting about hotel reservations in Denver for the May 16-18, 1996 ASI conference, I want to assure everyone that ASI has booked a block of rooms for conference attendees. All information related to this is in the Nov.-Dec. issue of "Key Words," which is being printed "as we speak." There is a 4-page spread that provides all the conference speakers, workshops, and roundtables. A registration form is provided. Please be sure to read it carefully, enroll in workshops and roundtable discussion groups early, and be sure to send your check and registration form to the address given. I didn't want to leave anyone panicking about room availability. It is a good idea to register early. I hope to see all "old" faces and lots of new faces in Denver! It should be a great conference! Happy Holidays! Ann Blum Vice Pres. of ASI and Conference Coordinator ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:08:42 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: James R Farned Subject: Re: Denver In-Reply-To: <199512120039.QAA04781@coyote.rain.org> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Sorry to ask such a lame question. Can someone fill me in on the conference in Denver, i.e. dates, place, etc . . . . I am going that way in the next month or two and would like to schedule it in. Thanks. Jim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:08:56 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TAntrim107@aol.com Subject: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hello All, I'm yet another newcomer to the indexing scene. Recent discussion regarding the relative merits of "cold calls" and networking bring me to ask the following questions. 1. How does networking lend itself more easily than apprenticeship? Judging from what I see in the ASI Locator, there are precious few indexers in any given geographic area. How do you give a reference for someone elses work if you haven't seen them in action. I would gladly work with someone more experienced than myself just to break into the field. (More experienced indexers include all of you who aren't still trying to crank out the USDA Basic Indexing Course) 2. If you haven't actually done indexing as work for hire, how do you include a sample index with your resume? I have spent countless hours attempting to get meaningful information out of the Literary Marketplace and to produce a credible resume, but it seems as if word of mouth is going to be the best possible route. If you have recomendations as to how I can get into the game, please send them my way. Thanks to all for the recent discussions. I have only been on the list for a couple of weeks, but find myself rushing home from work each day to find out what is new. Tim Antrim Newport News, VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:09:08 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Debbie Wallace Subject: SDAIR'96 - Call for Participation ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- SDAIR '96 Call for Participation Fifth Annual Symposium on Document Analysis and Information Retrieval April 15-17, 1996 Alexis Park Resort, Las Vegas, Nevada SPONSOR Information Science Research Institute University of Nevada, Las Vegas SYMPOSIUM CHAIR Henry S. Baird AT&T Bell Laboratories henry.baird@att.com PROGRAM CHAIRS Document Analysis: Andreas Dengel German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence (DFKI) dengel@dfki.uni-kl.de Information Retrieval: Jan Pedersen Xerox Palo Alto Research Center pedersen@parc.xerox.com SYMPOSIUM MANAGER Debbie Wallace University of Nevada, Las Vegas Information Science Research Institute 4505 Maryland Parkway Box 454021 Las Vegas, NV 89154-4021 (702)895-3338 (702)895-1183 (fax) sdair@isri.unlv.edu ftp site: ftp.isri.unlv.edu directory: /pub/SDAIR96 SCOPE The symposium will present results of state-of-the-art research and provide ample opportunity for the informal exchange of ideas in the field of automatic extraction of information from images of printed documents. High-quality refereed papers will be presented describing research on many key aspects of document image analysis and information retrieval, both theoretical and applied, with particular emphasis on: Document Analysis: High-Accuracy Transcription Postprocessing of OCR Results Keyword Search in Textual Images Multilingual OCR, Language ID, etc. Geometric and Logical Layout Analysis Recognition of Forms, Tables and Equations Models of Document Image Degradation Methods for Performance Evaluation Information Retrieval: Full-Text Retrieval Retrieval from OCR'ed Text Image and Multimedia Retrieval Text Categorization Retrieval from Structured Documents Language-Specific Influences on Retrieval Evaluation of IR Systems Text Representation PRELIMINARY SCHEDULE Sunday, April 14, 1996 (evening) Welcome Reception Monday, April 15, 1996 Invited Speakers: Dr. H. P. Frei, Union Bank of Switzerland Dr. Juergen Schuermann, Daimler Benz Research Center Technical Presentations Tuesday, April 16, 1996 Invited Speakers: Dr. Michael Lesk, Bellcore (to be announced) Technical Presentations Wednesday, April 17, 1996 (morning) ISRI Annual Assessment Reports Dr. Thomas A. Nartker, University of Nevada, Las Vegas Staff of Information Science Research Institute ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:09:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@aol.com Subject: Query: name-date index ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- A publisher suggested I might want to compile a name-date index for a book that is a collection of essays on French history. Can anyone enlighten me on the form this might take. Thanks for your help. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:09:55 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: Database Indexers?? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 10:05 11/12/95 ECT, you wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > Hi Everyone, > > Just wondering if this group includes any database indexers. If so, > how did you get started in it? Did you do traditional back-of-the-book > indexes first, or did you come into it from the computer field? > > Lin Simpson > lisimpson@scitor.com I have been book indexing for 7 years, and my husband, Jon, for 4 years. We have only recently become database indexers, through an indexing (and university) contact. I would have thought that most database indexers, at least for bibliographic databases like Medline, would have come from a field like librarianship. Many seem to start working for a company, rather than as freelancers. In Australia there seems to be little freelance database indexing work, and it tends to pay less than book indexing. My theory is that this is because it is done by librarians (who are underpaid) whereas book indexing rates are comparable to those of other publishing professionals, who are paid more. Regards, Glenda. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:37:06 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: TWitten@aol.com Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Tim, and other new indexers: I too am a new indexer having completed three paid projects with two more on their way. Several indexers gave me the same advice which worked out quite well for giving me that all-important first paid job. As Mary Mortensen said in her recent post, if you can't list clients on your resume the next best thing is to include a sample index. I included an index to a book which did not have one, but should have. I found the editor's name in the Acknowledgement section, and sent it to her, after first checking with the publisher to make sure she was still with them. In my cover letter I said how an index was an enhancement to a book like that, one that wasn't read just once, but referred to over and over as a resource. She in turn passed it on to their project coordinator (it was a big NY house) and he gave me a job without asking for other references. I've gotten additional work from him since. >How do you give a reference for someone elses work if you haven't seen them in action.< The other publisher I'm working for was a referral from another indexer who asked to see a sample of the work I'd done. We've never actually met, but have developed a friendship via e-mail which began by my asking her questions about marketing as a new indexer. So networking *is* important and possible even if you don't live geographically close to other indexers, and I don't! Hope this helps, and good luck. Trish Wittenstein ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:37:16 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Information for Tim, and other newcomers to indexing: How to use ASI for networking..... go to meetings - chapter meetings if you can find them, and the annual meeting. Get to know other indexers, and "talk indexing." You learn from the meetings, you learn from the other indexers, and who knows, somewhere in that mix of people, someone may be impressed with you, or take a liking to you, and you may end up with a referral, or some work if somebody is overloaded. As they say, "you've got to walk the walk and talk the talk." Surround yourself with indexing and indexers (as much as possible), and talk indexing every chance. Lots of us out here are helpful to newcomers and like to give them breaks. As for a sample index when you haven't had a paid job, why not create an index or two or three of books that you are interested in. Just practice exercises, but they show what you can do. And how does the publisher know it wasn't a for-pay job? He/she doesn't. It's an index. Another advantage of doing that is that perhaps you could ask an experienced indexer who takes you under his/her wing to critique it, if not in depth, at least superficially. You could learn from that too. It's important to keep indexing, despite the lack of clients. Every one you do, you polish your skills, raise questions and look for answers, and improve your speed. Hope this helps. Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:37:27 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Prindex@aol.com Subject: airfares to Colorado ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Western Pacific airlines is offering cheap flights to Colorado Springs. You have to purchase your ticket by January 4. There is transportation from the airport in Colorado Springs to the Radisson Hotel South in the Denver tech area which they said is 20-30 minutes to downtown. The fare is good until May 23 - after the ASI conference. From Wichita the times are a bit funky but you can't have everything. The number for the airlines is 1-800-930-3030. The number for the airport limo is 1-800-782-7730. Judy Press ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:37:40 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING In-Reply-To: <199512131411.GAA27636@biggulp.callamer.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Tim, it's something of a paradox, that getting work without having experience is very difficult, and you need the experience to get the work! I was lucky. I started out as a copyeditor, and a long-time client asked me if I did indexing. I said yes...which was something of an untruth, as I had never done one before. But I knew HOW to do them just from having used and criticized so many indexes over the years. This was back in the days when you actually used shoeboxes and index cards and alphabetized entries by hand. Once I had ONE index, I had a sample. This client worked for a large publisher, with many other editors who assigned indexes. I asked her to put the word out, and she did. I also got the names of some of her colleagues and sent them resumes. It helped immensely, IMO, that I had many years of editing experience even though I hadn't done very many indexes. It was assumed that I knew at least the basics about the publishing biz, how books were made, etc. And I did. If I had to start cold, today, I'd either find a nonfiction book with no index (believe it or not, they ARE out there) and create an index for it, or I would redo a completely awful index and show the two samples side by side. In fact, if I were really clever, I'd submit the indexes to the original publishers of both books, and ask for work. Even without doing that, you DO have samples you can show around. Good luck! =Sonsie= sconroy@slonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:37:50 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: MaryMort@aol.com Subject: Re: COLD CALLS? OR NETWORKING ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Tim Antrim asked: >2. If you haven't actually done indexing as work for hire, how do you include >a sample index with your resume? I followed a suggestion I heard from a number of people, and wrote indexes for 8 or 10 books as practice, until I felt comfortable using the last ones as samples. Most were for books that had been published without an index, but I also used some books that had an index, to be able to compare mine with the published one (I didn't use the latter as samples, but I learned a great deal in the process.) I formatted my samples in double columns and proportional font, so they had the appearance of a published index, but on the first page, under the book title, I put 'Unpublished index by Mary Mortensen'. Mary -- * Mary Mortensen * marymort@aol.com * 318 Main St. # 20 * 201-514-1710 * Madison, NJ 07940 * USA