========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:08:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daniel Wu Subject: Automated indexing ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- This note is being crossposted to The Well, INDEX-L, and AOL. Just recently joined the ASI. Yesterday I received the ASI newsletter Key Words. I find the controversy over Indexicon interesting. I have not read the review by Mulvany and Milstead and wished I have. Maybe I'll call up ASI to send me a back-issue or something. My background is in Computer Science and Linguistics. Thought people might be interested in one person's view on computer automation. I have to deal with this issue professionally at work since we are always trying to look for more efficient ways to do things. We try to automate when it make sense. Software development is probably the only field that has the ultimate goal of putting itself and everybody else out of business :) . I mean the ultimate software is that it will write all other software. We would not need software developers anymore. Actually I do have some work experience in using high level code generator (C in this case) and it is interesting. Given all these automations that is going on within software developement, I am not really worry in terms of software develeper being out of a job. The reason is that the automation problem is very complex and at some point it will require certain human understanding. Trying to teach a computer to understand is a real pain. I still remember one of the things my Computer Science Prof said one time, it goes something like "What computers are good at, humans are not good at; what humans are good at, computers are not good at." The example was that it is much easier for us to learn to comprehend a language than to learn to speak it. However, it is much easier to teach a computer to speak a language than to teach it to understand a language. Given this lesson and trying to automate things at work, I personally have certain computer automation philosophy. The first point in my computer automation philosophy is that one should try to automate anything that is mechanical or repeatitive in nature. These are the things that computers are good at but humans are not too good at (tend to get bored, or make mistakes, tend to feel like a machine and is dehumanizing if a person do these kind of things for too long). Actually if a person feel like s/he is a machine doing certain aspect of a job, a machine probably should do it if possible. The second point is that things that require thinking and understanding should not be automated. First on all, current state of technology does not in general do a decent job in automated thinking and understanding. But let just for argument sake that it is possible within our lifetime to have computer really think and understanding, then the question is should it be done? My position in this hypothetical situation is that it should not be done. Reason is that these are some of the things that make work interesting, and even enjoyable. Automation should replace the aspect of work that is not interesting and not enjoyable. The third point is that computers research and development should be in the direction of helping us understand and think. Not do the thinking and understanding for us. Actually if computer could one day do everything (i.e. understand and think), then the ASI will have lots of allies because computers will not only replace indexers, but it will replace proofreaders and editors. My goodness, it will even replace CEOs of every company and the congress (which may or may not be bad), and the president, and all the judges. If that were to happened, it would be illegal for a computer to think and understand because the congress will pass a fed law making it illegal (so they won't lose their jobs). So what does it all means for indexing? I think the following classes of tools may meet the three points I outlined: -- Any tools that do away with the mechanical aspect of indexing. -- Any tools that help an indexer to understand a book, an article, a data base. I think tools in this category is especially helpful for very large books or data bases because we just can't remember that many things. -- Any tools that can either teach or help teach a beginner indexing course. These tools will give the instrutors more time and as a result can concentrate on teaching the more advance courses which computers will have problem teaching. -- Tools to help evaulate an index. This may not be possible if it involves understanding. It may be possible for only the mechanical part of the evaluation like are you following the requested format. -- Any tools that help speed up the indexing process AND improve quality at the same time. Let's see, what else? Oh yes, tools to help us negotiate a good fee with the editors. Now of course, editors will have their negotiating tools also :) . I can just see this happening, I put my indexing negotiating software against my editor negotiating software. And if I am not happy with the result (the editor just upgraded his/her software), I go manual and negotiate with the editor's software myself and get a good deal. Now the editor is not happy, so s/he also go manual and start negotiating with me ... what fun. Maybe we should all stop indexing and go into negotiateing software. -- ================================================================ = Daniel Wu danwu@acm.org = = "If a man loudly blesses his neighbor early in the morning, = = it will be taken as a curse" Proverbs 27:14 = ================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:10:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daniel Wu Subject: Information Mapping ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Information mapping -- I swear I saw this term in one of item that ASI gave me when I signed up for its membership. Maybe it was in the Key Words Nov/Dec 1994 somewhere, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, maybe indexer should be call information mappers. Reason? Well, when I tell a few close friends of mine, my brothers, and my manager about me thinking of going into indexing, I get a few interesting responses which some of you might have experienced. * Indexing? Something to do with Wall Street? * Indexing? Why? Computers can do that. * Huh???? * Why would anyone like to do a crazy thing like that? I can live with most responses except the response of people who thinks they know what indexing is and it is easy and boreing to do. That is why I am throwing out this crazy idea of renameing the indexing profession to something else, like information mappers for instance. This term is beginning to warm on me because it has such a high sounding tone to it (wow, sound real academic), it has certain kind of mystery (what the heck is it?), and most important -- people would NOT assumed they know what it is (as oppose to indexing where some people automatically assumed they know what it is, how to do it, and how easy and boreing it it). Now the next trick is to describe the indexing, eh... I mean information mapping profession in such a way without ever use the term indexing. Any ideas? I must be getting tired to think of crazy things like this, pardon me. -- ================================================================ = Daniel Wu danwu@acm.org = = "If a man loudly blesses his neighbor early in the morning, = = it will be taken as a curse" Proverbs 27:14 = ================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:17:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: RachelR@aol.com Subject: Re: Cindex review & related issues ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi I'm new to the list and to indexing (just now taking the USDA course). I have my first indexing assignment already but the page proofs won't be ready until February. I'm nervous but I'll cope. Any advice to a beginner will be greatly appreciated. I was glad to read the post about Cindex and from Dave Gertler. >Would any of you be interested in my posting the article here? Dave, I would be very interested and appreciative. I'm just now looking into which software program I should buy, an especially tough decision since I have a Macintosh. Does anyone know of any Mac indexing software? Otherwise I will buy SoftPC so I can run DOS porgrams on the Mac, but I don't know DOS so it will be time consuming. I'm looking forward to reading this list. I hope everyone has a nice holiday. Rachel Rice (Martha's Vineyard) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:20:30 ECT Reply-To: ab190@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Richard W. Woodley" Subject: THE IRS THANKS YOU ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- NO! Not for paying your taxes. The Index and Reference Service (IRS) of the House of Commons (Canada) thanks all those indexers who sent congratulations to Harry on his retirement. We would like to share with you our parting song to Harry (in the spirit of the season). Ode to Harry (tune: Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer) In Hansard you'll read about Preston and Lucien. There's Audrey and Sheila and, of course Jean Chretien. And how will you recall the most obscure speeches of all? Harry the Hansard Indexer. He's been reading them for years. Harry's been making notes while the rest of us were bored to tears. When Crosbie called Sheila, "Baby", or Fulton brought that fish for Brian's lunch, or when the Tories stormed the Chair, Harry surely knows the bunch! But do not think his knowledge ends with things so Parliamentary. With history, computers and trivia, he has great propensity. Harry, we'll really miss you. Things won't be quite the same. At break we'll kill ourselves remembering the Beaver's second-cousin's name. HAPPY HOLIDAYS ! -- ************* Richard W. Woodley (ab190@freenet.carleton.ca.)************** | National Capital Freenet Information Provider ("go brhlc") | | Bridlewood Residents Hydro Line Committee EMF Information Service | ****************** "Communicate Globally - Act Locally"******************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:22:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Candy Schwartz Subject: Documentation Abstracts Inc. Research Grant ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Cross-posted to CHMINF-L, LITA-L, ACRL, ALCTS, ASIS-L, CDROM-L DOCDIS, ELEASAI, INDEX-L, JESSE, LIBREF-L, LIS-L, PACS-L, VIFLIS and LIBRES DOCUMENTATION ABSTRACTS, INC. Board of Directors DOCUMENTATION ABSTRACTS INC. (DAI) ANNOUNCES THE INFORMATION SCIENCE ABSTRACTS (ISA) RESEARCH GRANT NEW YORK, N.Y., December 1 -- The Board of Directors of Documentation Abstracts Inc. (DAI) announces it will award annually the Information Science Abstracts (ISA) Research Grant of $1,000 to one or more information professionals to conduct a research project oriented toward the study of the primary or secondary literature of information science. Documentation Abstracts Inc. is owner/sponsor of the monthly abstracting and indexing publication, Information Science Abstracts (ISA), published for DAI by Plenum Publishing Corporation. International in scope, ISA provides references to and abstracts of the useful literature in the fields of information science and library science dating back to 1966. Its coverage extends to journal articles from over 300 journals, to conference proceedings, books, reports and patents. The entire file is available for searching via Dialog File 202 and on Silver Platter CD-ROM. All applicants for the ISA Research Grant must be information professionals and hold a graduate degree in library science or information science. No individuals who are associated with ISA are eligible. This includes members of the Board of Directors of DAI, employees of Plenum Publishing Corporation, Silver Platter, and Dialog. Applicants must submit a completed application package by June 30, 1995 outlining the scope and nature of the proposed project, providing evidence of an established methodology and a viable research design. Examples of possible topics for research include the use of information resources, comparison of tools, quality of the literature, and bibliometric analysis. The goal of the research must be to produce a publishable paper. Half the amount of the $1,000 grant will be paid upon announcement of the award and the balance will be paid upon successful completion of the research project. In addition to the cash award, access to ISA CD-ROM will be provided for the length of the grant. CONTACT: For further information and for application instructions, Taissa Kusma, Vice-Chair of Documentation Abstracts Inc., Director, Electronic Publishing, American Insitute of Physics, 500 Sunnyside Boulevard, Woodbury, NY 11797, 516/576-2260, Taissa@aip.org FAX 516/576-2499 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:23:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Julie Means Subject: software for the mac ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Is there currently available indexing software for the Macintosh? And if so, what do indexers think of it? Sorry if this has been a recent question;I've been having trouble receiving email off and on and may have missed some postings. Also, during a recent indexing project, I ran across a question to which I could find no answers in my indexing texts. In this book, there were a large number of captions to photographs, and within the text of the captions, there were people, etc. (main entries) which were NOT pictured in the figure. I que{tioned whether to index them as part of the rest of the text on the page (i.e., p. 255, for example), or as part of the figure (i.e., Fig. 25.4), even though they did not appear in the photograph. In one case, the user might be disappointed that the entry did not appear in the photo; in the other case, the user might even be unable to find the entry if he/she did not consider the text to the figure. Any advice? Thanks for your help! Julie Means MJMEANS@WCNY.LL.PBS.ORG -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:27:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: Indexable names (fwd) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The following verse was from the art and architectural historians. Thought y'all would like it. Neva > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services PO Box 2157 / Round Rock, TX 78680 email: njsmith@bga.com voice: (512) 244-2767 Editor, _Library Currents_ PO Box 2199 / Round Rock, TX 78680 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 24 Dec 1994 16:21:37 -0500 From: "Robert A. Baron" Subject: Art History lite Sender: CONSORTIUM OF ART AND ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIANS To: Multiple recipients of list CAAH Reply-to: CONSORTIUM OF ART AND ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIANS Message-id: <01HL11WGUQOYXLW672@ACFcluster.NYU.EDU> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT CAAH readers: As long as posts of the holiday season have turned to some of the lighter moments of the profession, I'll take this opportunity to offer you a poem that might be called an Art Historian's Kvetch. It is based on a piece you all know. Apologies go out to those of you on museum-l who already read it, and, of course, to Mr. Eliot. OLD POSSUM'S ART REFERENCE TOOL, ver 1.0 (with apologies to Peter, Augustus, Alonzo and James). The naming of artists is a difficult matter, Not just one of your ordinary games, For every artist (would you believe all my jabber?) Must have three (or more) indexable names. First there's the name that his dear mother gave him, Such as Christo, Guercino, or the Master of the Thames, Such as El Greco, Fa Presto, or the School of John Nagy. All of them clear, unambiguous names. There are names used by friends and patrons in contracts, On certificates of death, and on the tax rolls. This is the stuff dissertations are made of, So many, intriguing, so we may dispose of them by noting that Janson and Hartt and Gardner never pruned them for indexing in their prepared prose. An artist, however, needs a name that's particular, A name that's peculiar, that makes him unique, A name he can use for his entire oeuvre, And needn't change more than thrice in a week. Of these, there are many, but a few will suffice, Such as Breughel, Bassano, Ostade or whatshisname, Smythe? By signing these to a corner of canvas, He can be assured of everlasting fame, As battalions of scholars battle ad infinitum Attempting to attribute a hand to a name. But above and beyond, there is one name left over. And this is the name that you never will guess, The name that no human research can discover. It is the name that the indexer chose to index. So when you notice a scholar in rapt contemplation, A book or a screen eye to eye with his brain, The reason, I warrant, is not due to his genius, Not due to his thought or to thinking's long train, But owes to reasons not wholly mysterious. The truth, sad to tell, is ineluctably plain: His mind is engaged in quizzed meditation, Attempting to remember, recall or dissever The thought from the thought from the thought of that name, That damnable, F-able, ever ineffable, Now so inscrutable, indexable name. ______________________________________ Robert A. Baron Museum Computer Consultant P.O. Box 93, Larchmont, NY 10538 rabaron@pipeline.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 13:36:33 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: Dave Gertler's Cindex review article ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Here is my Cindex article, which many of you were kind enough to request. It is about 19,000 characters; I'll let Charlotte decide whether and how to divide it into pieces. I'd be glad to receive any comments on it. Dave Gertler (dgertler@ssnet.com) NOTES This article appeared in the _Seybold Report on Publishing Systems,_ Volume 24, Number 7 (December 12, 1994). It is reproduced here with permission from Seybold Publications. I retyped it by hand, so any typos you find are my fault. I have used underlines to indicate _italic_ text; single asterisks to indicate *bold lead-ins*; double asterisks to indicate **bold subheads**; and triple asterisks to indicate the ***article title***. There were seven illustrations (screen shots) and accompanying captions, which I have not reproduced here. Seybold Publications' newsletters are viewed worldwide as the journals of record in their fields. They are scrupulously impartial and contain no advertising. Seybold also holds important seminars and trade shows focusing on electronic publishing technology, and its staff consultants are engaged by many developers and users of this technology. [The wording of this plug hasn't been seen or approved by Seybold officers; I just wanted to make sure that readers of this article knew something about the firm that published it. --DG] For information about, and/or sample copies of, the _Seybold Report on Publishing Systems_ (22 issues/year), the _Seybold Report on Desktop Publishing_ (monthly), or _Digital Media: A Seybold Report_ (monthly), call Seybold Publications (Media, Pennsylvania) at (610) 565-6864 or send a fax to (610) 565-1858. ARTICLE ***Cindex: Simplifying the Production Of Indexes Using a PC*** Many subscribers use our _Reports_ as both current news sources and reference works. You can find out about a cutting-edge technology or a hot merger rumor. You can also look back at an issue from last month, last year or, in the case of the _Seybold Report on Publishing Systems,_ 1971. Maybe you're looking for a quarterly financial report, or maybe you're researching the history of phototypesetting. Whatever the motivation, readers often tell us that back issues of the _Seybold Reports_ are a treasure-trove of information. But it's hard to find treasure without a good map. That's why we publish annual indexes to our _Reports._ How do we create these indexes? By engaging freelance workers. They face a daunting task: distilling hundreds of pages of technical reporting into a condensed, easily used reference. To do so, they must spend long hours culling and organizing long lists of topics and page references. One of our contributing editors has been indexing _Seybold Reports_ for several years. Until this year, he had used XyWrite -- a fast and powerful word processor, to be sure, but a program not oriented toward the special demands of indexing. Enter Leverage Technologies (known informally as LevTech). At Seybold San Francisco in October 1993, this software sales-integration-consulting firm took a booth to show Cindex, a DOS-compatible indexing program developed by Indexing Research (Rochester, NY). LevTech markets Cindex to corporate accounts, while Indexing Research handles direct sales to single users. LevTech also sells utilities that enhance Cindex's operation in various ways, from importing indexes in other formats to automating production of multiple indexes. LevTech asked us to give Cindex a try, and we agreed. Our contributing editor recently indexed a year's worth of the _Seybold Report on Desktop Publishing,_ as well as the _Seybold Special Reports_ covering the 1993 San Francisco show and the 1994 Seybold Seminars in Boston. Here are his insights into the advantages of indexing software in general and Cindex in particular. **Overview** LevTech sent us a copy of Cindex 5.1 last fall. In the spring, we got the new version, 6.0, a substantial improvement over earlier ones. Cindex 6.0, Extended Edition, sells for $625; a more limited version is available for freelance indexers, but the Extended Edition is the corporate standard. Currently, Cindex runs only under DOS, though Indexing Research is working on Windows and Macintosh versions. On a '486DX2/66 with 8 MB of RAM, Cindex obeyed most commands almost instantaneously, though, with a large index, a few required us to wait for as much as half a minute. (In those exceptional cases, the bottleneck was apparently caused by the hard disk rather than the processor.) Cindex has so many features it would be impossible to cover them all, so we will stick to the basic ones here. There are plenty of advanced ones for editing selected groups of records, renumbering pages, automating tasks, and so on. **Index-card metaphor** Cindex is based on the metaphor of index cards, the medium that most indexers are accustomed to using. Each index entry, or "record," occupies a separate space within the index's data file, though records with the same topic heading are grouped on the screen. Commands are typed in or entered with function keys that correspond to a modifiable set of commands. You can step backward through the ten most recently used commands. Cindex can execute single DOS commands entered on the command line, and it provides a DOS shell for more extensive use. Each record can contain up to 2,000 characters, arranged in up to 15 levels of headings and subheadings. When an index is started, Cindex asks you to estimate the number of characters that the longest record will contain. The program creattes that much disk storage for each record, no matter how many characters the record actually contains, so you can keep the file smaller by specifying a relatively small maximum record size. You can change this maximum size at any time, which will cause the file to be rewritten to disk. While working, you can back up an index by typing "write." The backup file contains only the actual text entered into records and is therefore much smaller than the stored index file. You can have multiple indexes open at once. Indexes can be combined or split into parts. Context-sensitive help is available at all times. A user who needs more assistance can call the firm that sold the program or post a message on the "Indexing with Cindex" message board in the Writers' Forum on America Online. **Creating, editing and deleting records** To add a record, typing "add" splits the screen into a lower record-entry area and an upper listing of recently entered records. It is easy to scroll up to a previous record, then either edit or duplicate it and make changes to the new copy. Hitting the enter key creates a new level of subhead. Tabbing drops the cursor one line; this is how you reach the page reference line. Key combinations are used to move to the start or end of a line, or to the previous or next record. The page-up and page-down keys move the index up or down one screenful; there is no way to move immediately to the start or end of an index (though "show A" moves the display to the first record starting with A, generally at or near the top of the index). To delete a record, you type "delete" and its record number. The record is marked with an asterisk, but it is still retained in the file and displayed (though it wouldn't be printed) until you use the command "squeeze." That command physically deletes the marked records and rewrites the index file into contiguous blocks on disk. **Sorting records** Index records can be viewed in alphabetical order or in the order in which the records were entered. With the former, a record, upon entry, is automatically alphabetized within the existing records. *Alphabetization.* Cindex lets you choose simple, letter-by-letter or word-by-word alphabetization. "Simple" rules look at all characters, including the slashes that Cindex uses to indicate character formatting (bold, italic and so forth). The difference between letter-by-letter and word-by-word alphabetizing is illustrated in this example: Letter-by-letter rules put "ColorAge" before "Color Central," since A comes before C. Word-by-word rules put "Color Central" before "ColorAge," since they compare only the first word of each, in which case "Color" comes before "ColorAge." *Ignoring words.* You can create a list of words that Cindex will ignore in alphabetizing subheads. (Words to be ignored in headings must be coded by hand.) The default list contains mostly articles (a, an, the) and prepositions (at, for, on, to, etc.). This feature can produce strange sortings; for instance, the subheading "to be reexamined" preceded the subheading "claimed" because "to" was ignored but "be" wasn't. Like some other Cindex features, this one becomes more powerful as you gain experience and add to the exceptions list. *Numbers.* Alphabetizing of numbers is tricky. You can specify whether or not Cindex should evaluate numbers. If it does, it will sort them from least to greatest; if not, it will ignore them (meaning that "80486 licensed" would come before "80386 released"). A larger problem occurs when a term that contains a numeral should be indexed as if the numeral were spelled out. The only way to make Cindex sort 68000 as if it were spelled out is to type "{sixty eight thousand}68000." It would be nice if the program were smart enough to suggest how a numeral should be spelled; you could be asked to confirm the spelling. Perhaps a switch could be set that would determine whether the default spelling would be, for instance, "one thousand nine hundred ninety-four," "nineteen hundred ninety-four" or "nineteen ninety-four." *Spelling checker.* Cindex comes with a standard Microlytics spelling checker. Legal and medical dictionary add-ons are available separately. **Output to word processors or printers** All or part of an index can be printed on a dot-matrix or laser printer. Cindex doesn't support PostScript, and its direct printing feature can produce only monospaced output. Hence, to get a more realistic proof or better final output, you must export the index file and import it into another program. Cindex can write RTF files or formatted files for use with Ventura Publisher, WordPerfect, WordStar or XyWrite. It can generate (and read) several types of database files. It can also create files with University of Chicago Press coding or American Association of Publishers (AAP) SGML tags; the SGML file could be used to publish the index in electronic form. A user could also set up custom markup code tables to produce output in a different format. **Advantages of this technology** Anyone who needs to make an index has to decide what tool to use. Some of today's word processors, such as WordPerfect, offer built-in indexing. The user creates a list of terms; the program then builds an index listing the pages on which those terms occur. While this approach automates indexing, the result is likely to be inadequate unless the original document was quite short or simple. Professional indexers are expert at deciding which mentions of a term are worth noting and which aren't; they can also determine when a related idea is being discussed without the mention of that precise term. A word processor's indexing feature falls short in both areas. You might be tempted instead to do what we used to do: simply type index entries into a word processor while paging through the document. If so, it is for you that we present the following list of Cindex's advantages and disadvantages in comparison with using your word processor. These comparisons apply specifically to XyWrite, but most of them also apply to other typical word processors. Here are some of Cindex's major advantages. Data are kept in a structural form, making reformatting and reuse easier. Each record exists as a separate entry. This means, for instance, that you don't have to scroll to a heading before making an entry that uses that heading. (Word processors can alphabetize lines of text, but they can't alphabetize multiline index entries.) Entries can be arranged in many ways, including alphabetically, by page number or chronologically (so you can edit records that were created around the same time as any chosen one). To speed redundant entry, you can create a list of abbreviations that, when typed, are automatically converted into full terms. (Some word processors and third-party utilities provide similar features.) Cross-references can be checked. Cindex can verify that there are no circular cross-references (entries where each merely refers to the other); ensure that there are at least a specifice number of entries under a heading that is referred to; and tell you which entries have cross-references made to them. Indexes can be combined automatically, a painstaking manual task in a word processor. The "join" function can turn all records containing unique headings into single lines that use commas as separators. In other words, all entries such as Smith, Egbert letter to editor, 8:23 (which is poor indexing style if there are no other entries for Egbert Smith) could be converted into this form: Smith, Egbert, letter to editor, 8:23 Page references can be globally "conflated" -- _i.e.,_ if one record gives a reference for page 43 and another refers to the same topic appearing on pages 44 and 45, the combined reference would be changed from 43, 44-45 to 43-45. Word processors may be easier to use (and more familiar to their users), but a program such as Cindex is still the obvious choice for any but the smallest, simplest indexes. **A pro's perspective** To get an even more informed perspective on Cindex, we spoke with Dick Evans of Infodex Indexing Services in Raleigh, NC. A veteran of nearly three decades at IBM, Evans was a human-factors engineer specializing in testing software and its documentation, including indexes, for ease of use. Evans has been a professional indexer and technical writer for the last two years, and he's one of the most active contributors to the indexing message boards on America Online. While at IBM, he created indexes with IBM's BookMaster software, which lets the user embed entries directly in the document being indexed. Asked about Cindex, Evans stated, "I couldn't work without it and would not hesitate to recommend it, though there are some things I would change if I could. Cindex is very powerful and automates a lot of the manual effort that used to be involved in indexing, but it is DOS-based and command-driven and, like any command interface, can make demands on your ability to remember the commands and their syntax." Evans described version 6 as "much improved" over earlier versions, and he is eager to see the Windows version in the works, which should make it even easier. "In particular," he said, "I'd like to see easier search-replace pattern-matching operations. On the other hand, it is very good at sorting, adding new records, editing existing records, adjusting page numbers, and a host of other important features." Evans recommends trying the demo version of Cindex, available for $30. While it can't check spelling and can only save a small number of records, the demo is otherwise fully functional, so prospective users can sample Cindex's power and interface. **Competitors** Cindex isn't the only fish in the indexing software sea. Its chief competitor, Macrex, also boasts a devoted following. Originally conceived in the UK on the CP/M platform, Macrex is now a DOS program, currently on version 6.25. It is marketed in North America by Bayside Indexing Service (Daly City, CA; Macrex@aol.com). The list price is $495. A demo version is available for $50 (applicable toward the full version's price). It's hard to summarize the differences between Cindex and Macrex; their feature lists and user interfaces are quite different, and each offers utilities that add extra power. We hope to take a closer look at Macrex soon. Until then, if you're looking for dedicated indexing software, try the demo versions of each. *Automatic indexing.* A latecomer to this battlefield is Indexicon, a controversial program from Iconovex Corp. (Bloomington, MN). Controversial? Indeed. Iconovex caused an uproar in the professional indexing community by seeming to tout Indexicon, which can analyze a WordPerfect or Microsoft Word document and produce an index automatically, as a replacement for human indexers. After a scathing review in the American Society of Indexers newsletter, _Key Words,_ Iconovex's president publicly apologized for "errors in communications" and stated that Indexicon was not intended "to replace professional indexers." Its purpose, he wrote, is "to create a quality index in areas where professional human indexing is not feasible or required or where professional indexing will be used to edit the final product." Our own review reached a similar conclusion. We remain skeptical that natural-language document analysis is sophisticated enough now to produce a professional-quality index of a typical document. It sounds like a tool to be used to turn out a quick, informal index when human indexers are unavailable. Incidentally, the American Society of Indexers is a good resource for anyone who wants more information about indexing. Send E-mail to ASI@well.sf.ca.us or call (512) 749-4052. **Our impression** Overall, Cindex is typical of old-fashioned DOS programs with proprietary interfaces. It seemed clunky at first; as we mastered its commands, though, its power shone. There's still plenty of room for improvement, especially in its user interface. We'd also like to see a WYSIWYG screen preview and richer printing features (both of which we expect from the upcoming Windows version); an easier way to alphabetize entries that begin with numerals; and a way to adjust or turn off a short buzzing tone that alerts you to a line with mismatched parentheses. We also had one specific complaint about Cindex's XyWrite output. The XyWrite file it created used word spaces, rather than tabs, to indent subheadings. (You can override this default by entering codes somewhere in the program, but it strikes us as a silly default.) These quibbles do not, however, change our overall assessment of dedicated indexing software. Now that we've found Cindex, we've sworn off using word processors for indexing. David Gertler [At the end, there is a box containing contact information for Leverage Technologies (E-mail: daveream@aol.com) and Indexing Research (ircindex@aol.com). I won't bother listing addresses, phone numbers and faxes here. DG] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:57:00 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: software for the mac ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi, Julie and Rachel. I'm a relatively new indexer, but I'll offer my two cents. I'm a Mac-head, too. Since I refuse to switch (back) to IBM, I had to face this issue, too. I've been doing indexes in MS Word for about two years now. Although it's true that you have to do manually many of the useful things Cindex and Macrex do automatically, still, it's manageable. I'm still torn between buying SoftPC and Cindex and holding out for the Mac version of Cindex, which is supposed to be in the works (but I've not heard a release date). Since I'm managing with MS Word and developing techniques for doing things quickly, I'm not highly motivated to shell out some $400 for software not written for the Mac (and having to buy SoftPC to run it). Rachel, good luck with that project in February. The best advice I can give is (1) don't worry too much about software for now; just concentrate on the principles of good indexing, (2) read at least a couple of chapters before marking any terms, and (3) try to relax and enjoy it, exuding confidence, if possible (tall order, I know). Every great indexer had a first assignment. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Live long and prosper. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:08:37 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daniel Wu Subject: What do you tell your friends about indexing? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Well, bad news. Being new at indexing, have no idea that "information mapping" is a register trademark. Guess we can't use it. How about a different term (and then ASI or whatever indexing society will trade mark it). Just curious, what do people tell their friends when they are asked what they do? Have the ASI, or other national indexing organizations a list of "creative" answers that we can give out? -- ================================================================ = Daniel Wu danwu@acm.org = = "If a man loudly blesses his neighbor early in the morning, = = it will be taken as a curse" Proverbs 27:14 = ================================================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 13:09:18 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REVANS4509@aol.com Subject: Re: index-l message ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- If you are not already aware of it, there is an active community of indexers in the Writers area of America Online. There you will find Cindex users as well as the tech support folder for Cindex. I believe you will find folks who use Cindex on a Mac under a DOS emulator. Whatever you decide to use, please don't wait until the proofs are in your hands to begin learning your software. Cindex has an excellent demo package for under $50. You can practice until the last minute then order the full package when you receive your proofs. The whole price is about $500 and the demo price counts toward the purchase price. Dick Evans Infodex Indexing Services Raleigh, NC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:00:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shore Editorial Services Subject: Re: software for the mac ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Regarding your question about people, etc. mentioned in captions but not shown in pictures, I've dealt with that same issue in the past by treating them as if they were in the picture--that is, indexing them as caption material. If they're indexed as text, readers won't know to look in the caption for them. The root of the problem is with the author: why discuss in captions entities that aren't shown in the photograph? Regards, Lys Shore (indexer of scholarly books) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:01:05 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shore Editorial Services Subject: Re: Indexable names (fwd) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Thanks for posting the artist-name poem! It's marvelous, and all too true. Lys Shore ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:01:42 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Shore Editorial Services Subject: Re: What do you tell your friends about indexing? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I tell people I'm an analytical indexer, that I prepare analytical indexes for scholarly books. That usually satisfies them. Cheers, L. Shore ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:36:46 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Charlotte Skuster Subject: SIGIR'95 Call for papers ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 12:28:45 -0800 (PST) From: Raya Fidel NOTE: EXTENSION OF PAPER DUE DATE TO 11 JANUARY 1995 !!! CALL FOR PAPERS SIGIR'95 18th International Conference on Research and Development in Information Retrieval The Sheraton, Seattle, WA, USA July 9 - July 13, 1995 In co-operation with ACM AICA-GLIR (Italy) BCS-IRSG (UK) CEPIS-EIRSG (Europe) DD (Denmark) GI (Germany) IPSJ (Japan) IMPORTANT DATES E-mail to to be added to mailing list: Today RECEIPT of papers by relevant Program Co-chair: JANUARY 11, 1995 RECEIPT of proposals for tutorials, panels, demonstrations, posters, and workshops by the relevant Chair: FEBRUARY 10, 1995 Author notifications sent: MARCH 10, 1995 Final manuscript due in camera ready and electronic forms: APRIL 3, 1995. For additional information contact the Conference Chair or ABOUT THE CONFERENCE SIGIR'95 is an international research conference on information retrieval theory, systems, and applications. The ACM SIGIR conference occurs annually, alternating between locations in North America and elsewhere (e.g., Europe). This conference will interest a broad spectrum of professionals including theoreticians, developers, publishers, researchers, educators, and designers of systems, interfaces, information bases, and related applications. The Association for Computing Machinery (ACM), the First Society in Computing, is a major force in advancing the skills and knowledge of IT professionals and students throughout the world. ACM serves as an umbrella organization offering its 90,000 members a variety of forums in order to fulfill its members' needs -- the delivery of cutting-edge technical information, the transfer of ideas from theory to practice, and opportunities for information exchange. Providing high quality products and services -- world-class journals and magazines; dynamic special interest groups; numerous "main event" conferences; tutorials; workshops; local special interest groups and chapters; and electronic forums -- ACM is the resource for life-long learning in the rapidly changing IT field. TOPICS Though we look for all good, innovative submissions in the broad field of information storage and retrieval (IR), the following list of topics may make clearer some of the areas that are of particular interest: 1. IR FUNDAMENTALS (focusing on one or combinations of the following): A. Types: text, hypertext, multimedia (including audio, images, video) B. Representations: source, conversions, storage, presentation C. Information structures, interaction, time-based issues D. Processing: indexing, analysis, compression, retrieval, rendering, publishing E. Systems: design, implementation, measures, evaluation,architectures, scalability, integration with DBMS F. Theories and models, evaluation G. Reasoning: logic, case-based H. Standards: SGML (and HTML), HyTime, MPEG, Z39.50, HTTP 2. USERS AND IR INTERACTION: A. Modeling, empirical studies B. Interface design, human-computer interaction, visualization C. IR tasks, including query formulation and expansion D. IR and information seeking behavior 3. IR AND COGNITIVE APPROACHES: A. Natural language processing, linguistic resources, multilingual systems B. Knowledge bases and their use C. Learning: genetic algorithms, neural nets D. Pattern matching, uncertainty, data fusion 4. DEDICATED IR APPLICATIONS: A. Digital libraries: architectures, prototypes, studies, issues B. Networked information (e.g., WAIS, WWW): infrastructure, tools, systems, protocols, collections, interfaces, case studies, intellectual property rights 5. EDUCATION IN IR: A. Curriculum, training B. Tools, systems PAPERS SIGIR'95 seeks papers about significant contributions to the broad field of information storage and retrieval, which covers: handling of all types of information; its applications; information systems; and underlying theories, models, and implementations. We encourage discussions of experimental studies, tests of usability, explorations of information-retrieval behavior, reports on large scale system performance, and demonstrations of advanced approaches. We prefer that: contributions that discuss theory, have sufficient motivation and proof of utility; that designs have been proven by a prototype; that reports on small-scale experiments include convincing arguments or simulations to show their likelihood to generalize; and that writing is carefully copy edited and well organized. All papers shall provide a concise message to the audience about how the work relates to previous research or experience, what aspects of the work are new, and the "lessons learned." Papers will be evaluated on the basis of originality, significance of the contribution to the field, quality of research, and quality of writing. Papers shall be submitted in English to the relevant Program Co-chair. Specific submission requirements: (a) Papers shall be submitted in four copies. (b) Papers must include an abstract of not more than 100 words. (c) Papers must be 20 pages or less (double spaced), including abstract, figures,and references. Final versions of accepted papers may require further trimming to meet publication standards. (d) Authors shall provide a separate cover page (not included in the length limitations) with the title, the author name(s), and the author affiliation(s), plus complete contact information (mailing address, telephone, fax, and e-mail) for the author to whom correspondence should be send. (e) Show the word count for the paper on the cover page. (f) Indicate if the paper is to be considered for the Best Student Paper Award. This Award requires that the first and primary author be a full-time student at time of submission. TUTORIALS SIGIR'95 will begin with a full day of tutorials, each of which is intended to cover a single topic in detail. Proposals are solicited from people willing to give tutorials. Tutorials may be either a half day (4 hours) or full day in length and can cover topics at an introductory or advanced level. Submissions shall be made to the Tutorials and Panels Chair and shall consist of : (a) An extended abstract outlining the exact content of the tutorial. This should be approximately 3 to 5 pages in length. Sample slides also would be helpful. (b) Tutorial Length: half-day or full day. (c) A description of the intended audience outlining what attendees are expected to know, the technical level of the tutorial and the objectives of the tutorial. (d) A CV for each presenter detailing relevant qualifications and experience. Some biographical details may also be helpful. (e) A complete description of A/V and computer equipment required for the tutorial. (f) Complete address for the presenter(s), including phone, fax and e-mail addresses. E-mail submissions shall be in plain ascii text. PANELS SIGIR'95 will include a small number of panel sessions. These are intended to examine issues of interest to the research and development community and stimulate lively debate between panelists and audience members. Presentations by panel members should lay the groundwork and open the debate. Ideally the panel shall consist of 4 members, with very divergent views on the topic. The moderator shall referee the debate, ensuring a good balance in the discussion without presenting a position. Proposals are solicited from moderators and/or panelists. Submissions shall be made to the Tutorials and Panels Chair and shall consist of: (a) An extended abstract outlining the proposed topic, including the questions likely to arise. (b) A list of panel members and the name of a moderator. (c) A CV for each panelist and the moderator, detailing relevant qualifications and experience. Some biographical details may also be helpful. (e) Complete addresses for the moderator and panelists, including phone, fax and e-mail addresses. E-mail submissions shall be in plain ascii text. DEMONSTRATIONS Demonstrations provide an opportunity for first-hand, interactive experience with information retrieval systems. Researchers and developers have the opportunity to present their new systems, and conference participants have the opportunity to interact directly with creators of the systems demonstrated. We invite proposals for demonstrations of information retrieval systems and applications. Demonstrations should focus on aspects of the system that are novel and important. Demonstrations are not limited to experimental systems only. IR researchers participating in the NIST/ARPA sponsored TREC, MUC, TIPSTER projects and the European Community research initiatives are encouraged to participate. Presenters of the systems must be individuals who have been directly involved with the development of the system, and who are aware of the differentiating and interesting ideas embodied in their system. All presenters are expected to register for the conference. Presenters shall submit a proposal of at most three pages, describing the planned demonstration, to the Demonstration Chair. The proposal shall include: (a) A description of noteworthy and distinguishing ideas or approaches the demonstration will illustrate. (b) An explanation of how the demonstration will illustrate these ideas or approaches. (c) Complete contact information (mailing address, telephone, fax, and e-mail) and affiliation of the person(s) who will present the demonstration, including their relationship to the project (e.g., principal investigator, developer, project manager, architect). (d) A 100-word summary for inclusion in the conference's preliminary program. (e) A description of the technical specifications of the system. The selected presenters shall provide a description that is modeled after the TREC technical specification descriptions. An electronic form will be available via e-mail. (f) A bibliography of published and unpublished materials that relate to the system, its algorithms and underlying theories as well as any evaluations that have been undertaken. (g) The hardware, software, and network requirements for the demonstration, including the electrical requirements of the equipment. No fax submissions; e-mail submissions preferred. POSTERS SIGIR '95 will include poster presentations to enable researchers an opportunity to present late-breaking results, significant work in progress, or research that is best communicated in conversational mode. Poster presenters will have the opportunity to exchange ideas one-on-one with attendees and to discuss their work in detail with those most deeply interested in the same topic. Posters will be reviewed by appropriate subject specialists as well as the Program Committee, and will be selected on the basis of their contribution to research- focused discussion. Posters will be accepted a full month later than papers in order to provide an opportunity for submitting very current work that need not be written up in a full paper. Abstracts of posters will appear in the conference proceedings. There will be a specific time during the conference when authors will be expected to be present at their posters to describe their work and answer questions, but posters will also be accessible for informal viewing throughout the day. Doctoral students are encouraged to consider poster submission as a viable means for discussing ongoing dissertation research. Submissions shall be made to the Posters Chair and shall consist of: (a) Abstract, submitted in three copies. (b) An extended abstract of approximately three to four pages. (c) Abstract shall emphasize the research problem, the approach or methodology being used, and why the work is important. (d) A separate cover page with the title of the poster, the name and affiliation of the author(s)/presenter(s), as well as complete contact information to include postal address, email address, phone number and fax number of the author(s). WORKSHOPS Proposals are being solicited from both individuals and groups for one-day workshops to be held on July 13. Workshops bring together researchers to share information and discuss a topic that relates to their expertise. Submissions shall be made to the Workshops Chair and shall be limited to 3 pages. They shall contain: (a) The theme and goal of the workshop. (b) The planned activities. (c) A CV for each organizer detailing relevant qualifications and experience (not included in the length limitations). Some biographical details may also be helpful. (d) Maximum number of participants. (e) Process for selecting participants. (f) List of potential participants. After the workshop, organizers will provide an article summarizing the workshop for SIGIR Forum. No fax submissions. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- General Conference Chair: Raya Fidel GSLIS, FM-30 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195, USA fidelr@u.washington.edu Tel: +1-206-543-1888 Fax: +1-206-685-8049 Program Co-chairs: (N and S America, Asia) Edward A. Fox Department of Computer Science Virginia Tech Blacksburg, VA 24061-0160, USA fox@vt.edu Tel: +1-703-231-5113 Fax: +1-703-231-6075 (Europe, Africa, Australia) Peter Ingwersen Royal School of Librarianship Birketinget 6 DK 2300 Copenhagen S, Denmark biskpi@unidhp.uni-c.dk Tel: +45 31 58 60 66 Fax: +45 32 84 02 01 Tutorials and Panels Chair: Joan Morrissey School of Computer Science University of Windsor Ontario N9B 3P4, Canada joan@cs.uwindsor.ca Tel: +1-519-253-4232 ext 2992 Fax: +1-519-973-7093 Posters Chair: Elizabeth D. Liddy School of Information Studies Syracuse University Syracuse, NY 13244, USA liddy@mailbox.syr.edu Tel: +1-315-443-2911 Fax: +1-315-443-5806 Demonstrations Chair: Efthimis N. Efthimiadis GSLIS University of California Los Angeles, CA 20024, USA efthimis@gslis.ucla.edu Tel: +1-310-825-8975 Fax: +1-310-206-4460 Workshops Chair: Katie Hover Research Librarian Microsoft Corporation One Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052, USA katieh@microsoft.com Tel: +1-206-936-8082 Fax: +1-206-936-7329 Local Arrangements Chair: Michael Crandall Boeing Technical Libraries P.O. Box 3707, MS 8K-38 Seattle, WA 98124, USA crandall@atc.boeing.com Tel: +1-206-237-3238 Fax: +1-206-237-3491 Publicity Chair: Edie Rasmussen SLIS University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260, USA emr1@vms.cis.pitt.edu Tel: +1-412-624-9459 Fax: +1-412-648-7001 Sponsorship Chair: Jill McKinstry Library Systems, FM-25 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195, USA jillmck@u.washington.edu Tel: +1-206-685-3933 Fax: +1-206-685-8727 Program Committee: Ijsbrand Jan Aalbersberg, Phillips, USA Maristella Agosti, U. Padua, Italy Richard K. Belew, UC San Diego, USA Nicholas Belkin, Rutgers U., USA Abraham Bookstein, U. Chicago, USA Christine Borgman, UCLA, USA Giorgio Brajnik, U. Udine, Italy Peter D. Bruza, QUT, Australia Forbes Burkowski, Waterloo U., Canada Yves Chiaramella, LGI-IMAG, France W. Bruce Croft, U. Massachusetts, USA Efthimis N. Efthimiadis, UCLA, USA Hans-Peter Frei, UBILAB, Switzerland Norbert Fuhr, U. Dortmund, Germany Richard Furuta, Texas A&M U., USA Micheline Hancock, City University, UK Donna Harman, NIST, USA David Harper, Robert Gordon U., UK Nancy Ide, Vassar College, USA Tetsuya Ishikawa, ULIS, Japan Kalervo Jarvelin, U. Tampere, Finland Haruo Kimoto, NTT, Japan Shmuel T. Klein, Bar-Ilan U., Israel Robert Korfhage, U. Pittsburgh, USA Ray Larson, UC Berkeley, USA David Lewis, AT&T, USA Elizabeth D. Liddy, Syracuse U., USA Paul Lindner, DCS, USA Clifford Lynch, U. California, USA Gary Marchionini, U. Maryland, USA Yasushi Ogawa, RICOH, Japan Annelise Mark Pejtersen, Risoe, Denmark Keith van Rijsbergen, Glasgow U., UK Gerard Salton, Cornell U., USA Peter Schauble, ETH, Switzerland Fabrizio Sebastiani, U. Glasgow, UK Alan Smeaton, Dublin City U., Ireland Phil Smith, Ohio State U., USA Craig Stanfill, Thinking Machines, USA Ulrich Thiel, GMD, Germany Richard Tong, Verity, USA Howard Turtle, West Publishing, USA Ellen Voorhees, Siemens, USA Ross Wilkinson, RMIT, Australia Peter Willett, U. Sheffield, UK E.J. Yannakoudakis, Athens U., Greece ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:13:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lisa J Guedea Subject: Re: Information Mapping In-Reply-To: <199501031731.AA22583@world.std.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- The whole notion of occupational/professional names and titles has perplexed librarians for decades now, and so far I've seen no resolution. This does not bode well for indexers or any other group who want to change their professional image (educate the public, get more respect, inspire more awe, whatever) by changing the name. In the librarian circles, I've been on many sides of the issue -- heck, I've even been and "information specialist" instead of a "corporate librarian" in one of my previous jobs where I was given the choice. What I keep coming back to, though, are some difficult questions, at least for myself. Do you rename the profession or redefine it? Do you work from within it or splinter off? Are you prepared to fight the turf battles with the other "information" people? And whom are you willing to alienate in the process? (I am continually surprised at the number of people who say "Hey, I'm a LIBRARIAN and darn proud of it!") So there you are. I'm not taking sides on this one, just as I stopped taking sides on the "librarian" vs. "cybrarian" vs. "info specialist" vs. "info manager" vs. "mutant ninja infobot" thing. But I am saying that people do tend to get excited about the image/re-naming thing, and their reasons on *both* sides usually make a lot of sense. Just some food for thought. Lisa Guedea W5527 Highway 106 P.O. Box 800 Corporate Librarian Fort Atkinson, WI 53538-0800 Highsmith, Inc. 414-563-9571 phone LGuedea@world.std.com 414-563-7395 fax ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:14:07 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carol Roberts Subject: Re: What do you tell your friends about indexing? ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I say, "I create indexes for books." Sometimes they ask how. The answer to that is longer and more interesting. Cheers, Carol Roberts, indexer and copy editor | Live long and prosper. Carol.Roberts@mixcom.com | Milwaukee, WI | ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:14:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: EKOCH@VM1.YorkU.CA Subject: Editors' Assn of Canada (long posting) ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- New Year's greetings from the Editors' Association of Canada. The EAC-Toronto Branch is pleased to announce a new session of seminars. Seminars are held in Northrop Frye Hall at Victoria University on the campus of the University of Toronto. Presenters' names are in brackets. Prices are in Canadian dollars. If you need any more information, e-mail Madeline Koch at ekoch@vm1.yorku.ca or telephone 416/691-4964. Call the other branches to see what seminars they've got lined up (Western Canada -- 604/681-7184, Quebec and Atlantic Canada -- 514/849-9886 and National Capital Region -- 613/820-5731). Editing Technical Writing (Anne Stilman) Jan 21, 10 am-4 pm; $90 members/$105 nonmembers All kinds of exercises show how to deal with technical writing even when the terminology and concepts seem like a foreign language. Substantive Editing (Rosemary Shipton) Jan 28 & Feb 4, 10 am-1 pm; $90 members/$110 nonmembers Two-parter offers practical suggestions on how far to go, winning the author's confidence and other issues of making a publication as good as it can be. The Art of the Query (Rica Night) Feb 7, 7-930 pm; $45 members/$55 nonmembers A workshop to explore the skills needed for effective and diplomatic communication with authors. Copy Editing 1 (Anne Stilman) Feb 11 & 18, 10 am-4 pm; $120 members/$140 nonmembers Two-part lecture/workshop directed at novice editors but also useful to anyone who wants to improve writing skills. Permissions: Dogma & Dilemma (Fred Kerner) Feb 16 & 23 & Mar 2, 7-930 pm; $95 members/$110 nonmembers Three-part seminar explores issues of copyright and subsidiary rights in the Canadian context, with some discussion of US and UK practices. Estimating Is Not a Science (panel) Feb 25, 10 am-3 pm; $80 members/$95 nonmembers A discussion of different approaches to estimating, when to use a contract, negotiating, charging for expenses and how to learn from your mistakes. Starting Out and Thriving as a Freelance Editor (Rice Night) Mar 4, 9 am-5 pm; $95 members/$115 nonmembers Ever-popular introduction to the benefits and perils of freelancing. Eliminating Bias (Susan Lawrence and colleagues) Mar 9, 7-930 pm; $45 members/$55 nonmembers A discussion of the editor's responsibility to point out racist, sexist, ageist, ???-ist terms and assumptions. Indexing from A to Z (Heather Ebbs) Mar 11, 10 am-5 pm; $95 members/$105 nonmembers Whether indexing technical or fiction materials, journals or trade books, on-line or on paper... Questions? E-mail Madeline Koch at ekoch@vm1.yorku.ca or telephone 416/691-4964. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 16:14:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kari Bero Subject: Re: Indexable names In-Reply-To: <9501042103.AA14776@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Yes, thanks for the names poem. I, too, got quite a chuckle out of it! -Kari J. Bero, M.S. L.I.S. (budding indexer and...) Reference Librarian / User Education Coordinator Suzzallo Library FM-25 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 bero@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:47:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@compuserve.com> Subject: Indexes in Children's Books ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'll be presenting an indexing workshop next month at the PENCIL (Professional Emphasis on Needs for Children's Illustrations and Literature) conference, which should be a lot of fun. Anyway, I'm looking for examples of both good and not-so-good indexes in children's books. Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services (303)567-4011 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:47:15 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daniel Wu Subject: Re: Information Mapping In-Reply-To: <199501052257.OAA01494@netcom15.netcom.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Lisa J Guedea wrote: > ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- > [zapped] > So there you are. I'm not taking sides on this one, just as I stopped > taking sides on the "librarian" vs. "cybrarian" vs. "info specialist" vs. > "info manager" vs. "mutant ninja infobot" thing. But I am saying that > people do tend to get excited about the image/re-naming thing, and their > reasons on *both* sides usually make a lot of sense. Just some food for > thought. In a perfect world, I feel that the profession's name should accurately reflect what a person in that profession do. The name should not be overblown (i.e index engineer) or should it be a name that connotates less than what that profession really does. So "indexing" actually fits the above "perfect" world. The problem is probably not in the name so much as in the imapge of what a person who does indexing actually do. The image of a profession is important for at least two reasons: - self esteem - your paycheck For some people, the self-esteem is not a problem like "I am a LIBRIAN and I am PROUD of it" But the paycheck might matter because a profession that has a bad image will probably get pay less since other people basically says that it is easy, anyone can do that. Other potential problems could be that during "downsizing" that people in that profession will get cut first. For example, one company I worked for cut all the librarains that we have. Now I got upset because the librarians we have are great. They find all the right information for me. They save me lots and lots of time when I am doing research. Now I have to do them and it affects my schedules. They cut the librarain probably because of the bean counters. Yes, they saved money, but they just wasted a lot more money indirectly because I cannot do my job as effeciently. And I am not the only one who is affected. So, as for indexing, what are the costs of a low quality index or a non-fiction book which does not have an index? Costs to me are: - lost sales because a person could not find what s/he is looking for in a book - lost time on the reader when the reader wants to find something (he already pay for the darn book) - High frustration because I knew I read it in this book and the lousy index can't find it for me, which results in high blood pressure, which results in lots of doctor's visits, which results in lost productivity at work ... ;) All the costs are indirect and hard to measure with a bad index. Anyway, this is getting too long so I better stop. -- ================================================================ = Daniel Wu danwu@acm.org = = "If a man loudly blesses his neighbor early in the morning, = = it will be taken as a curse" Proverbs 27:14 = ================================================================ > > > Lisa Guedea W5527 Highway 106 P.O. Box 800 > Corporate Librarian Fort Atkinson, WI 53538-0800 > Highsmith, Inc. 414-563-9571 phone > LGuedea@world.std.com 414-563-7395 fax > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:47:30 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Hazel Blumberg-McKee Subject: Re: Information Mapping In-Reply-To: <199501052253.AA27830@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Yeah, people ask me what an indexer is when I tell them that I'm one. I give them a brief explanation. If they're still puzzled, I tell them about those alphabetized pages in the backs of cookbooks. That makes things clearer. I still vote for "indexer." People are confused enough by *that* term. They'd probably be even more confused by a new term. And you'll have to explain what you do, no matter what. I was a law librarian for awhile, and that's what I said I was: a law librarian. I've heard the "cybrarian" and "information specialist" et al. terms before, but I felt more comfortable with "librarian." Just my $.02. Hazel Hazel Blumberg-McKee (hazelcb@freenet.tlh.fl.us) "If you take hyphens seriously you will surely go mad."--John Benbow