From: SMTP%"LISTSERV@BINGVMB.cc.binghamton.edu" 7-JAN-1996 13:57:28.84 To: CIRJA02 CC: Subj: File: "INDEX-L LOG9512A" Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 08:11:10 +0000 From: BITNET list server at BINGVMB (1.8a) Subject: File: "INDEX-L LOG9512A" To: CIRJA02@GSVMS1.CC.GASOU.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:00:04 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Ellen Curtin Subject: Re: indexes in the news/in fiction In-Reply-To: <9511302140.AA10565@mail-in.worldlink.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I believe that _The Lord of the Rings_ is the only (or at minimum, the first) fictional work to come with its own index. There are, of course, indexes (or index/glossaries) available for some other long, complex, or very popular works -- e.g. _Ulysses_, _Foucoult's Pendulum_, _The Chronicles of Narnia_, the Sherlock Holmes stories. But as far as I know LOTR is the only one in which the index was prepared by the author and included with the first printing. I almost wonder if the reason _Schindler's List_ was called a novel in the first place was so that the author wouldn't feel obliged to include an index. . . . Mary Ellen internet: postal: 9 Titus Mill Rd., Pennington, NJ 08534, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:00:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Ellen Curtin Subject: Index length, and other problems In-Reply-To: <9511292219.AB25496@mail-in.worldlink.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Almost all of my indexing is for academic presses. The indexes are detailed (from 4 to 12 hits per page) and the style is usually run-in, with considerable space restriction. As I get to be a more experienced indexer, I'm coming up against my assigned length limits more often. This is probably because I see more concepts that need indexing, and more clever and useful ways of indexing them. Do those of you who do these kinds of books have guidelines that you use for cutting indexes down to size? For instance, if I have to leave some entries with an excessive number of page references, should they be: - citations to names of other scholars - subentries within long, central major entries - standalone entries for secondary topics? Mary Ellen internet: postal: 9 Titus Mill Rd., Pennington, NJ 08534, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:00:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Dwight Walker Subject: AusSI Web indexing prize 96 software platforms ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Platforms for Software Tools Currently I am developing with the assistance of others three versions of WEBIX: Windows 3.x or higher - complete DOS - in progress UNIX - an awk script - in progress - awk is a text processing language that comes with UNIX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------- CINDEX: As well Leverage Technologies have developed an add-in to CINDEX 6.0 (for DOS) to convert an index to HTML. Price is around $30-$50 USD. Contact Dave Ream: daveream@aol.com. I tested it with Garry Cousins here in Australia and it works very well. Instructions for use are included. It takes two passes - output to file, run through converter. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ If you can assist in a port to Macintosh please contact me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ Testing the HTML WEBIX just produces an HTML file. You will need to manually enter the file path in Netscape to load it into the viewer. Thereafter you can use 'Reload' to refresh it each time you run the converter. The sequence would be... CINDEX/MACREX edit WEBIX Netscape - OPEN ... CINDEX/MACREX edit WEBIX Netscape - RELOAD Not terribly well integrated but getting there. Obviously OLE would be a great alternative in a Windows environment. That could be the next generation... Dwight Walker AusSI Webmaster ---------------------------------------------------------- Dwight Walker, Sydney, Australia tel +61-2-3986726 (h) +61-2-4393750 (w), fax (work) +61-2-4383729 My Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~dwalker AusSI Home Page: http://www.zeta.org.au/~aussi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:00:33 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael Dietsch Subject: freelance questions ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hi, my name is Cheryl Dietsch, and I'm a new subscriber to this list. Currently, I'm an in-house indexer at Macmillan Computer Publishing Company. Some friends and I are considering freelance indexing, initially as extra income. We can think of plenty of advantages to freelance work, but are wondering about the disadvantages (I'm sure there must be some). What are some of the experiences that you have had with freelance work? What kind of disadvantages are there? My friends and I want to be as realistic as possible about what we're getting ourselves into when we start contacting publishers about possible freelance work. Feel free to e-mail me directly if you don't want to post your answers to the list. Thank you. Cheryl Dietsch skyler@iquest.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:54:50 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@aol.com Subject: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I'm wondering if many of you submit your completed indexes to your clients with "Index written by Jane Doe" at the top of your index. And if so, I'm wondering how many of those by lines appear in the published work. I thought maybe I'd start including my by line, just to see if I might get credit for writing the index! (Although I realize that there may be disadvantages of having my name associated with an index if the publisher changes my index--for the worse--and then I'm embarrassed to have my name printed at the top.) Thoughts? Peg Mauer Communication Link ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:55:09 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: freelance questions ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 95-12-04 09:30:05 EST, you write: >What are some of the experiences that you have had with freelance work? >What kind of disadvantages are there After three years, the biggie for me has been unpredictable schedules. I have to schedule necessary time off months in advance then there is still a chance that something I've committed to do will slip into that time frame. Dates given by publishers are slippery and often change several times. You can lay out a comfortable workload then have everything slide into the same week. You can turn down work because you have something scheduled, the "something" can move and you have no work for that period. That said, I began freelancing after 30 years in corporate life and I would not willingly go back to keeping a 9:00 to 5:00 schedule for someone else. The rewards of freelancing are immediate and directly related to the quality of the job I do. In corporate life I would do a job, wait a year for a performance appraisal from a boss who may or may not understand or even remember what I've done, then, depending on the state of the economy, get a piddling raise six months after that. As a freelancer, I do a job and my reward is another job from the client. I set my rates and raise them at my will. No middle man. Dick Evans Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:57:59 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Kevin Subject: Re: Idiom ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Tim Dixon wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Book indexers work is not going unnoticed. > >Chadwick-Healey has produced a CD-ROM (IDIOM) that includes the MARC >records, tables of contents and the Back of Book indexes for 5,000 >core titles in most college and university libraries. > >I have two types of questions about IDIOM: > >Has anybody had the opportunity to see how effective it is? Since >each book index is (theoretically) crafted to suit the particular >book, do you lose authority control? Does it lower recall and >precision in searching? > The combined back-of-the-book indexes for 5,000 books? Sounds like the heebie-jeebies to me. I would suspect (and assert) the value of this work to be seriously diminished if considerable editing was not applied by an experienced indexer or someone skilled in authority control. It probably wasn't. There is a huge rush on to get "information" out onto the shelves in CD-ROM form. The absolute **last** thought some of these producers give is to the index. The reason they don't is that they still don't understand what they're really selling, according to the author of a recent text I indexed (whose views I endorse!). They think they're selling this nebulous and over-hyped concept: "information", but information in and of itself has no *intrinsic* value. People pay money for ANSWERS. Not information. Only when producers of such works understand that it is "answers" that they are in the business of selling will they have the necessary AHA reaction: and see the value-adding benefits of a good index to transform the raw material information into an "answer-producing" product. Kevin Mulrooney ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dyslexics of the world untie! First State Indexing (302) 738-2558 276 East Main Street Indexer@inetcom.net Newark, Delaware 19711 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:59:25 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Index length, and other problems In-Reply-To: <199512041446.GAA13196@biggulp.callamer.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Mary Ellen, I also do a fair amount of academic indexing, but as yet have not had many problems with editing indexes for length. However, when this does come up, it is ALWAYS better to do the job yourself rather than let the editor handling the book tackle the problem. In cases where I haven't been able to cut enough to meet the space requirement, it has been possible to reduce the type size or go to three (or even four) columns to accommodate a reasonable index length. When cutting, I'm inclined to combine subentries into larger categories where possible, or eliminate the peripheral ones. Instead of an entry like this: Clouds Cirrus Cumulonimbus Cumulus... You could do this: Clouds, types of Where you leave off specific names BUT be sure these names are entered as main headings themselves. As for leaving out proper names (of scholars, other authors, authorities, etc.), I'm finding that the trend today is to include MORE names, not less. Many authors now want an "author index" wherein the author[s] of every work cited in the text are listed. So much for space savings! I try never to tamper with concept-type entries--except to make them tighter or better. These are the real "meat" of what an indexer does. Anybody can do a concordance of words and terms, but only a good indexer can organize the concepts in a book so a reader can find them. I hope this helps. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:01:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: karen markey drabenstott Subject: Subject Access to Online Catalogs Research Report Available ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Announcing the availability of a research report via FTP entitled: TESTING A NEW DESIGN FOR SUBJECT ACCESS TO ONLINE CATALOGS by Karen M. Drabenstott and Marjorie Weller with the research assistance of Jeffrey M. Holden ABSTRACT. This report describes a research project that tested a new subject access design. The new design enlisted search trees to determine which subject searching approach was most likely to succeed at providing useful information in response to user queries. A research team at the University of Michigan's School of Information and Library Studies developed the ASTUTE experimental online catalog which had a wide range of subject searching functionality and search trees to govern the system's selection of a subject searching approach in response to user queries. The databases of the experimental online catalog contained bibliographic records in computer science and technology from Mardigian Library of the University of Michigan-Dearborn (UM-D) or bibliographic records in American history from Lilly Library of Earlham College, and subject authority records from the Library of Congress' subject authority file. Library patrons and staff at UM-D and Earlham participated in online retrieval experiments to answer the following three research questions: 1. Do search trees improve the search performance of subject searchers at the online catalog? 2. Do subject searchers prefer an online catalog that controls system responses and searching approaches to an online catalog without such controls? 3. What are the characteristics of queries that cannot be answered using the ASTUTE experimental online catalog? Quantitative and qualitative analyses demonstrated that the search trees were more effective in selecting a subject searching approach that would produce useful information for the subjects that users seek than users would select on their own. This report gives recommendations for improving specific subject searching approaches to increase their efficiency, increase user perseverance, and encourage browsing. It also suggests enhancements to the search trees to enable them to respond to the wide variety of user queries for subjects. OBTAINING COPIES VIA FTP. _Testing a New Design for Subject Access to Online Catalogs_ may be obtained over the Internet using anonymous FTP. The FTP host name is "sils.umich.edu." When the system asks you for a user name and password, type the user name "anonymous" and type your electronic mail address (or last name) for the password. The directory containing this report is /pub/papers/DoED. The "README" file in this directory describes the contents of the directory, sizes of files, how to fetch files from the directory, and what additional software is needed to display or print the files. _Testing a New Design_ is available in Postscript format and as a self-extracting Stuffit archive. The Postscript files for _Testing a New Design_ are unusually large because they contain many images that show screens in the ASTUTE system. OBTAINING PUBLISHED COPIES: Published (bound and printed) copies of the 370-page report entitled _Testing a New Design_ may be obtained from the School of Information and Library Studies at the following rates: (1) $18 prepaid, 1st class delivery in the United States, (2) $21 prepaid, first class delivery in Canada, or (3) $44 prepaid, air mail delivery outside the United States and Canada. (These rates cover the cost of report production, packaging, and postage.) Please make checks payable to the University of Michigan and send them to the School of Information and Library Studies, University of Michigan, 304 West Engineering Building, 550 East University Avenue, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109P1092 USA. The authors have submitted the report to ERIC, and, pending acceptance and processing, will be available in microfiche and hardcopy formats from ERIC. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:48:09 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Locatelli@aol.com Subject: Re: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I've submitted four indexes with a by-line (all my indexing work to date). No credit lines have appeared in the two books that have appeared in print so far. Fred Leise "Between the Lines" Indexing and Editorial Services ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:48:26 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Seth A. Maislin" Subject: Re: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Although I think it would be great (a few obvious nightmare ideas aside) to have my name included at the top of each index, having the index's author's name listed at the top just isn't standard nowadays -- nor has it ever been, I think. Thus for me, if I were a publisher getting an index from a freelancer, I wouldn't want to be bothered having to edit out the "author line" before sending it to a printer. I'd rather look at the hard copy and say, "Yes, this is exactly what I want," and then send the disk to the printer. A good analogy, I think, is having no choice but to cut out all those annoying tags off brand new clothes. I'd rather they were removed at the store -- or never attached in the first place -- so that I can just put them on instead. I feel the same way about car manufacturers or dealers who insist on advertising by putting a sticker on the rear window or the bumper. Now, this assumes that the indexer sends the disk, as opposed to sending only a hard copy that needs to be retyped anyway. At the point it needs to be retyped, the publisher can just cross out what they don't want. But with a disk, it can be a chore, especially if the publisher doesn't have the software necessary to make the edits (which often happens when the printer does have the software). On the other hand, I still want my name to show up. I write it on the hard copy by hand so that it is there, and I write it on the disk label. I may also ask the project editor if my name will appear in the preface (or equivalent location) as the indexer. At O'Reilly & Associates (Cambridge MA), I'm fortunate in that every book that gets published includes the indexer's name in the preface. That's enough for me, especially because it is an above-average courtesy. - Seth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:48:50 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Peg, Of all my clients, only one will put the indexer's name at the beginning of the index. The others simply do not do that as a matter of house style. You can try putting your by-line on each submission, but I doubt that it'll do much good. Also, think about what the likelihood is that the product you submit may not be what is published -- in other words, that changes are made to the index after you submit it. Would you want your name associated with it then? If the changes introduce errors or poor styling or indexing practices, you certainly wouldn't. Which brings us to the subject of contracts and control. Before I put my name to a published product, I'd have a contractual arrangement that includes approval of changes to the index. I'd have to be certain that the final product wasn't some abbreviated, condensed version of what I submitted -- or I'd have to have a great deal of trust in the client, which is the case with the one client who does put my name to their indexes. Like everything else in life, it's a trade-off! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:30:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: REvans4@aol.com Subject: Re: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 95-12-05 08:53:36 EST, you write: >Also, think about what the likelihood is that the product you submit may not >be what is published -- in other words, that changes are made to the index >after you submit it. Yes indeed. This also makes it hard to use previous works as a sample for new clients. I am never sure that the work is entirely my own. I had one entry for "800 AT&T" that ended up in the final version as "820 AT&T." I have no idea why, but it was correct in my original CINDEX file. Dick Evans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:30:24 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: muccie@siam.org Subject: Re[2]: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I worked for a major medical publisher that had a policy of listing everyone who worked on a book on the copyright page. This list included the acquisitions people, the production and design people, the indexer, the compositor, and the printer. I assume they still do this. In addition to being grateful for the opportunity to acknowledge someone's hard work, as the person who assigned indexes I found this information helpful when subsequent editions went into production, since in many cases the author or acquiring editor requested the same indexer. Of course, problems did come up when the author redid (i.e., butchered) an index. Several times I called an indexer and asked if they wanted their name taken out, for the reasons Peg mentioned. Mary Rose Muccie Editorial Director, SIAM muccie@siam.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:30:48 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Larry Harrison Subject: Re: Idiom ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Kevin wrote: >The combined back-of-the-book indexes for 5,000 books? Sounds like the >heebie-jeebies to me. I would suspect (and assert) the value of this work >to be seriously diminished if considerable editing was not applied by an >experienced indexer or someone skilled in authority control. It probably >wasn't. There is a huge rush on to get "information" out onto the shelves >in CD-ROM form. The absolute **last** thought some of these producers give >is to the index. <...> I agree. One trivial example: I can visualize books on dozens of different subjects with a given heading in the index, such as "Pasting" or "Style" -- these books could include word processing computer manuals, art/craft and sewing how-to books, early childhood education books etc. How useful would the "merged" indexes of such books be??? Larry Harrison (larryh@millcomm.com) 507/280-0049 Freelance book indexing Rochester, Minnesota ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:32:02 ECT Reply-To: grant@onyxgfx.com Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Grant Hogarth Organization: Onyx Graphics Corp. Subject: Re: bylines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Hmmmm....what about a "stealth" method...reference yourself under "indexer" *in* the index???? (tongue firmly in cheek) Grant ===================================== Grant Hogarth, Information Developer Onyx Graphics Corp. Midvale, UT www.onyxgfx.com ftp.onyxgfx.com #include ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:37:29 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Michael & Cheryl Dietsch Subject: Re: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Like Seth at O'Reilly & Associates, I also am fortunate to have my name published in the preface of every book I index for Macmillan Computer Publishing. At Macmillan, everyone who worked on the book including each proofreader, layout tech, indexer, editor, production supervisor, etc. gets their name printed in the preface unless they specifically request otherwise. I love looking for "my" books in the bookstore and seeing my name in the front of the book. Cheryl >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >At O'Reilly & Associates (Cambridge MA), I'm >fortunate in that every book that gets published includes the indexer's name in >the preface. That's enough for me, especially because it is an above-average >courtesy. > >- Seth ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:38:56 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Pmauer@aol.com Subject: Re: bylines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 95-12-05 16:06:52 EST, GRANT@onyxgfx.com (Grant Hogarth) writes: >Hmmmm....what about a "stealth" method...reference yourself under >"indexer" *in* the index???? >(tongue firmly in cheek) I like it! I like it! I am, as Lynn would say, ROTFL (rolling on the floor laughing). I suspect that the publisher would never notice. Thanks for the chuckle! Peg Mauer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:59:03 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jean Dartnall Subject: Re: by lines In-Reply-To: <9512051351.AA05704@jculib.jcu.edu.au> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I once asked a publisher if they would mind if I had my name on the index because I planned to use it to seek registration with the Australian Society of Indexers. I put it in very small point at the end. It was a non-commercial publisher. I don't know if that made a difference. The editor was perfectly happy about it. She was pleased to think they were doing something for me and I think thought she would get an extra good job! (Of course it was just my usual standard.) Jean Jean Dartnall Information Services Librarian James Cook University of North Queensland Townsville Queensland Jean.Dartnall@jcu.edu.au ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:59:12 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary S Stephenson Subject: Re: Idiom In-Reply-To: <199512052109.NAA24651@unixg.ubc.ca> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Kevin wrote: > >The combined back-of-the-book indexes for 5,000 books? Sounds like the > >heebie-jeebies to me. I would suspect (and assert) the value of this work > >to be seriously diminished if considerable editing was not applied by an > >experienced indexer or someone skilled in authority control. It probably > >wasn't. There is a huge rush on to get "information" out onto the shelves > >in CD-ROM form. The absolute **last** thought some of these producers give > >is to the index. There is truly nothing new under the sun. Almost 20 years ago there was a series of cumulated back-of-the-book indexes published under the series title of CumIndex. There were titles dealing with public health, operations research, computer science, etc. One of them dealt with Library & Information Science. It was edited by Fred Kilgour and came out in 1976 (I think). The title was "The Library and Information Science CumIndex". It combined the indexes of 96 English-language books in the field. It was created using computer programs and was claimed to provide a coherent index to the entire collection. The actual arrangement of entries was in a keyword format. I'm not sure if it is still in print, but I believe that it is available in the RIE fiche collection put out by ERIC and should be available at most academic libraries. I use it as an example in my indexing course. Susie Stephenson School of Library, Archival and Information Studies University of British Columbia Vancouver mss@unixg.ubc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:59:20 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Daveream@aol.com Subject: home page announcement ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Leverage Technologies, Inc.now has a web site which can be accessed in the following ways: e-mail address: info@lvt.com home page URL: http://www.lvt.com/levtech/ Information is available on all services and software for publishers, indexers, and communicators. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:59:34 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: freelance questions ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 09:00 4/12/95 ECT, you wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >Hi, my name is Cheryl Dietsch, and I'm a new subscriber to this list. >Currently, I'm an in-house indexer at Macmillan Computer Publishing >Company. Some friends and I are considering freelance indexing, initially >as extra income. We can think of plenty of advantages to freelance work, >but are wondering about the disadvantages (I'm sure there must be some). >What are some of the experiences that you have had with freelance work? >What kind of disadvantages are there? One of the main disadvantages is that if you don't work, you don't get paid. And since you have no direct control over how much work you get, your income from freelance indexing will be wildly variable. We've been indexing part-time for about five years now and are fairly well established, but there are still periods when we just don't get calls. You will need to have other skills or resources to fall back on for the slack periods, or a good number of solid clients. Jonathan. Also you can have a lot of expenses and unpaid time, depending on how much you do in the indexing community, eg going to meetings and conferences, writing to Index-L... Glenda. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:59:50 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Jonathan Jermey Subject: Re: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- At 15:54 4/12/95 ECT, you wrote: >----------------------------Original message---------------------------- >I'm wondering if many of you submit your completed indexes to your clients >with "Index written by Jane Doe" at the top of your index. And if so, I'm >wondering how many of those by lines appear in the published work. I thought >maybe I'd start including my by line, just to see if I might get credit for >writing the index! (Although I realize that there may be disadvantages of >having my name associated with an index if the publisher changes my >index--for the worse--and then I'm embarrassed to have my name printed at the >top.) Thoughts? > >Peg Mauer >Communication Link We always include a sentence in the introduction to the index such as "This index was prepared by Glenda Browne, a registered member of the Australian Society of Indexers". It often, but not always, appears in the final work. Before we thought of putting it in the intro we used to ask for acknowledgement if possible. The editor we worked for included an acknowledgment of the indexer with the editor, designer, etc on the verso of the title page until a policy decision from the US (to Australia) stopped any acknowledgements there. Some editors requested the author to mention us in his or her acknowledgements and our names appeared there. I think it is important for indexers to be acknowledged for their work, although these days it is not a big issue that I feel is worth fighting huge battles for. When I had less indexes to my name, each acknowledgement was more significant. I also find it interesting to see who has created the index of a book I am using. In Australia there is a good chance that I would know, or know of, the indexer. Glenda. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Jermey & Glenda Browne (Blue Mountains Desktop Pty Ltd. - ACN 071 232 016) Blaxland NSW Australia jonathan@magna.com.au http://www.magna.com.au/~jonathan Australian Wildlife in the Cheese Shop: "We had some, but the cat's eaten it." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:06:36 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Lori Lathrop <76620.456@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: by lines ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- As Janet Perlman said ... > Also, think about what the likelihood is that the product you submit > may not be what is published -- in othe words, that changes are made > to the index after you submit it. Would you want your name associated > with it then? If the changes introduce errors or poor styling or > indexing practices, you certainly wouldn't. Ah, yes! That's the point of a story I often tell participants in my indexing workshops. A few months ago, I indexed a cookbook, and I was delighted that they agreed to include "Lori Lathrop, Indexer" in the Acknowledgements. However, when the cookbook was published, I was more than a little dismayed to see that they had made some unfortunate changes to the index I submitted. For example, they changed some headings by adding "(s)" -- like changing "Appetizers" to "Appetizer(s)". Also, (to reduce page count, I assume) they removed all of the subentries under some headings and used a cross-reference that said, "See Section Index, page ___" and, of course, that forced readers to bounce around between the index and the text. The other stylistic change they made was to faithfully change "with" to "With" throughout the index. I've learned my lesson. From now on, when a client offers to give me a byline or list me in the Acknowledgements, I'm going to ask for the right to review & approve (or disapprove!) any changes they make to my index. Happy holidays and happy indexing ... Lori ********************************************************************* Lori Lathrop ----------> INTERNET:76620.456@compuserve.com Lathrop Media Services, P.O. Box 3065, Idaho Springs, CO 80452 Office: 303-567-4011 / Home: 303-567-9533 ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:07:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Carolyn Weaver Subject: Re: by lines In-Reply-To: <9512061405.AA06910@carson.u.washington.edu> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- When I'm negotiating a project with a new client I usually ASK for an acknowledgement (in addition to a copy of the publication) but don't always get either one. I index one professional journal which always provides bylines for indexes as they do for the articles. But most of the time the recognition (if any) is buried in the acknowledgements. I consider it a nice bonus when I get acknowledgements of my work but don't lose sleep over it either way. And there have been a few times that I have been happy NOT to be named, after I saw what was done to the index after the disk went to the client. I do not include my name in the disk file unless specifically authorized by the client. Carolyn Weaver Bellevue, Wa. e-mail: cweaver@u.washington.edu voice: 206/930-4348 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:07:29 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JClendenen@aol.com Subject: Org names ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Here's an interesting one for the list. I have a book on the treatment of Jews in Germany in the 1920s-1930s (very depressing, but interesting), and the Germans love to have long names for political organizations. The author starts out with the German name, followed in parentheses by the English name. My problem is space. I think I'm going to have to do some heavy editing, so if I need to, should I get rid of the double postings with the English name first, and just have the ones with the German name first? Leaving out the English names altogether would be a disservice to the reader, I think. How critical is it to have entries for both the German and English titles? An example: Reichsvertretung der deutschen Juden (National Representation of German Jews). A mouthful, yes? Thanks for your input. Joanne Houston, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:07:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: GLASSMANDL@aol.com Subject: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- I hope to launch myself as an indexer in early spring and I'm thinking or some Jan. 1st shopping to start setting myself up. My Questions: 1) I love my Mac (LCIII), but? Is there anyone out there making a living running Mac & Macrex via either Soft PC or Soft Windows? Should I just bite the bullet and get DOS/ Windows hardware? 2) I'm in the market for new word processing software. Is there a more often desired form by publishers? Thoughts on WordPerfect/Word/Claris Works. 3) My degrees are in medicine and science and I hope to find a niche or crack an entry in that area. I've heard some vague talk of mentoring/apprenticeship. Any thoughts? Or are "cold-calls" still the road most travelled? Thanks for indulging a aspiring neophyte! Don Glassman. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:28:07 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: "Neva J. Smith" Subject: Re: new guy with ?s In-Reply-To: <199512071552.JAA06932@zoom.bga.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- About your shopping: Do it earlier- by Dec. 31- and take it off your 1995 taxes. Neva > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = > = - * - = < = Neva J. Smith, MLIS DataSmiths Information Services PO Box 2157 / Round Rock, TX 78680 email: njsmith@bga.com voice: (512) 244-2767 Editor, _Library Currents_ PO Box 2199 / Round Rock, TX 78680 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:28:21 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: JPerlman@aol.com Subject: Re: Org names ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Joanne, I would say to double post -- have the entry under both the English *and* the German name of the organization. But, to save time, I wouldn't list the name in the other language parenthitically. In other words, NOT English name (German name), xx German name (English name), xx BUT English name, xx German name, xx That will probably give the index user the best coverage, while saving a lot of turnover lines for index entries, which will add a lot of length. Happy holidays to all! Janet Perlman Southwest Indexing ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:28:39 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Sonsie Conroy Subject: Re: Org names In-Reply-To: <199512071552.HAA20287@biggulp.callamer.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Joanne, it depends somewhat on the audience for the book. If it is oriented to scholars and others who would be intimately familiar either with the German language or with the situation in Germany at that time, you might be able to avoid the double posting. But if it's aimed at a more general audience, most of whom would not be able to understand much (if any) German, I think you'd HAVE to put the English translations somewhere. A possible off-the-wall solution: a one-page or one-column "translation table," where each German name was translated into its English equivalent, and vice versa. A note at the head of the index would tell readers that the organizations are indexed under their German names, but that translations are found on X page. =Sonsie= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:28:51 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Macrex@aol.com Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- In a message dated 95-12-07 11:45:53 EST, you wrote: >1) I love my Mac (LCIII), but? Is there anyone out there making a living >running Mac & Macrex via either Soft PC or Soft Windows? > Should I just bite the bullet and get DOS/ Windows hardware? There certainly are! If you would like to talk to one, drop me a private e-mail or give me a call at 415-756-0821. One of the Macintosh Macrex has given us permission to release her name and phone number potenital purchasers with questions about using Macrex on the Mac. >2) I'm in the market for new word processing software. Is there a more often >desired form by publishers? Thoughts on WordPerfect/Word/Claris Works. According to our records, most of the Macintosh using indexers are using Microsoft Word. It has the ability to create WordPerfect and other file formats and is an established standard on the Mac. Gale Rhoades Director Macrex Sales & Support Office ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:29:01 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: LBINDEX@aol.com Subject: Re: new guy with ?s ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- To Don Glassman: Regarding word processing software - the publishers I've worked with are flexible. Though I mail them my final edited version of an index in Wordperfect, plus a copy in generic ascii (translated by Wordperfect), both their software and mine will translate files into other formats. Each publisher that I've worked with has been satisfied with Wordperfect submissions. Lee Ellen Brower lbindex@aol.com lurker speaks - from Loveland, Colorado ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:29:13 ECT Reply-To: Indexer's Discussion Group Sender: Indexer's Discussion Group From: Mary Ellen Curtin Subject: Re: Org names In-Reply-To: <9512071553.AA10212@mail-in.worldlink.com> ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Joanne: you said >My problem is space. I think I'm going to have to do some heavy editing, so >if I need to, should I get rid of the double postings with the English name >first, and just have the ones with the German name first? Yes, but only if you have to. For a few organizations (e.g. the Nazi party) which might be known to non-specialists, you might list the English name with a "see" reference to the German, but in most cases the readers will either (a)have never heard of the organizations before, so will follow the text, or (b) will be specialists and will be familiar with the German name. Mary Ellen internet: postal: 9 Titus Mill Rd., Pennington, NJ 08534, USA